i had to give them every pharmacy, every doctor, every hospital, and they threatened me that if i left anything out, it would be really bad. i did everything i could it to list every single doctor -- dr. everywhere i have been. when i got in touch with the dermatologist, he begged blue cross and blue shield saying this was a misunderstanding. all she has is acne. please do not hold a per cancer surgery for this. he was the nicest man. i was frantic. i did not know what to do. i did not know how to pay for my surgery. the hospital wanted a $30,000 deposit. i was by myself and did not have that money. i turned to the only person i had to turn to which was my

congressman. the next day i got a letter canceling my insurance fund the first they covered me. can you imagine having to walk around with cancer growing in your body with no insurance. it is the most terrible thing in the world to not have anybody to turn to or a place to go. i cannot even say how bad it was. . blue cross blue shield took my high premiums the very first time i ever had a claim. the very first time and was suspected of cancer. they took action against me, searching high and low. they turned over every single thing they could in my medical history to pull out anything that would cause any suspicion on me. so they didn't have to pay for

my cancer. a nurse who attends my church works fulltime for blue cross and blue shield. she looked through medical records searching for reasons to cancel people. she came to me and she said, i feel so bad. i can't tell you how sorry i am this has happened to you. blue cross and blue shield has control over life and over death. people have to be able to count on what they have paid for count on having insurance. blue cross and blue shield will do anything to get out of paying for cancer, anything. sad fact is that anyone with a catastrophic illness what is not a part of a group, who has an individual policy stands a really high chance of getting cancelled. left out in the cold with no insurance. i go to cancer support group every week f.

four girls in my cancer support group have had their health insurance cancelled and two have had to declare bankruptcy because of cancer. it's very difficult for me to speak out. my insurance could be cancelled again 'i live in fear every day of my insurance company. i looked everywhere for help. no one found anything to help me until joe barton, after working for a really long time, every day they worked hard. i had given up hope. i didn't have any hope left but they never gave up. they did everything they could to help me and got my insurance reinstated. after being diagnosed in june, 2008 with aggressive breast cancer, i was placed back on a list to get a mastectomy and i finally had the surgery in october 2nd, 2008. my tumor grew from 2 to 3

centimeters all the way to 7. i had to have all my lymph nodes removed in my arm, everything. delaying cancer treatment it only worsens the condition, costing more to treat and treatment is much more intensive. also, the outcome is not as good. i go to chemotherapy every three weeksnd will have to go for the next year. cancer is expensive and no one wants to pay for cancer. i pray no one has to go through the sheer agony that i have had to endure for one year. i did not deserve to have my insurance cancelled. blue cross and blue shield set out to get rid of me. they searched high and low until they found enough to cancel me and they did. i owe my life to joe barton and i pray that you will listen to my story and help people like me who are powerless against the

big insurance companies. today, when i met mr. barton this was the very first time i met him and he helped me not even knowing me just because he's a good man. i went to the county hospital. everywhere looking for help. and you just get on waiting lists and when you get on waiting lists your cancer grows. i thank you for listening and, please, do something about it because i couldn't even tell you the people i know that have been through this. it's horrible thing to go through. thank you so much. >> thank you. you may want to turn off your mic for now. we'll turn forrer questions. i'll begin and we'll go for five minutes on questions and probably go a round or two. for the three panelists i'd like your thoughts on information the committee gathered about the economics of rescissions for insurance companies. the three ceos testify that they

use rescission to rule out fraud by those that applied for coverage but at the same time we find these companies have reported saveringings in an estimated $300 million in result of rescissions from 2003 to 2007, not including all their subsidiaries and files. this doesn't include the savings gained by avoiding future medical costs of rescinded policy holders. let me ask each of you. do you believe the insurance companies use rescission as a fraud prevention tool or a cost-saving instrument that will help them boost their corporate profits. miss horton? >> i think it's all about the money. >> ms. raditz. >> absolutely about the money. >> ms. baiten. >> absolutely. until you try to use it they just keep taking your money. >> as i listened to your testimony, ms. baiten, you're an

rn and you were an attorney and you seem like you had access to people who could help you on this. what happens in your groups and people you talk to. what happens to people that don't have those support mechanisms in the family. ms. horton? >> they fall through the cracks. there's nothing -- even having radiologyists in my family i didn't have the opportunity to consult them before filling out the application. they live across the country with children and work all the time. i don't know what those people would do. >> ms. raditz? >> as i stated in my testimony, my brother was very fortunate because of the fact that i have education and i know lots of people. and even all the attorneys that i know, and judges who i went to ask for help, did not know what to do in a situation other than go through the court system. unfortunately, when you have cancer or you're in a position where your life is shortened to

a matter of months, you can't go through the court system. you don't have the time to do that. what do people do? many, many people throughout the united states do nothing because they don't have the ways or the means or the knowledge to take the steps necessary. they don't know all the -- i know hundreds of attorneys i've been practicing a lengthy period of time. they don't know all those people i know. what do they do? they get the letter and they don't get the treatment that they need, and many of these people die. they think that's the way it's supposed to be. because they just don't know what to do. and i believe on nehonestly, th they depend on the lack of knowledge and lack of federal laws in place and that's one of the ways that they encourage their profits. >> plas baiten, you want to add

anything? >> i was going to say that a lot of people in my cancer group, they get letters like this, they just give up. they fade away and they die. >> you were fortunate, you had a ranking member here in congressman barton who intervened or else you might not be here. was it clear from the insurance company that 23 you didn't have a u.s. congressman working on your behalf that your insurance wouldn't have been reinstated? >> there's no doubt in the world that if it hadn't been for him that they wouldn't have given me the blink of an eye. you don't know how many hours they worked on this. this took a long time. this was like a month, many, many months process. it didn't happen overnight. so for his office to take that kind of dedication, i'll be forever grateful. if i live and don't die of cancer, it will be because of them. only because of my congressman,

only because of him did i get help for the cancer. if it wasn't for that it never would have happened. ms. raditz, parallel to ms. baiten and in your brother's case, the illinois attorney general's office and dr. walden, we have this in the binder. attorney general's office wrote and i quote, i find the behavior on the part of this health to be extremely troubling if not unethical. clearly there's no justification for rescindsing the gentleman's insurance beyond have avoiding cost of future treatment. to rescind and terminate his policy is not only devastating but probably fatal. and then in the second letter, the company finally reversed its decision. how did your brother knowo enlist the assistance of the attorney general, was that through you? >> absolutely through myself.

even i had difficulty in finding that outlet. it took me a while to get the attorney general's office. but we're fortunate in the state of illinois to have a health bureau in our attorney general's office. we're lucky to have an aggressive unit and they're available for the citizens of the state of illinois who go through the same situation my brother did. but again, most people don't have the knowledge that i have and, by the way, it took two appeals. the first time she wrote the letter they said, "no." it took a further letter to them before they did reverse their decision. >> thank you. mr. barton, questions? >> may i ask a question? >> just a technical question as a doctor i get nervous with so

many lawyers around me. there's an active -- >> you should feel zmur less than secure. it's opposite of secure. as i understand, there's an active class action suit one of the witnesses before us oh snee in california it's being going on for some time. >> the speech and debate notwithstanding, are we subjecting ourselves to possible subpoena in that to testify in that court by our questions here today or our opening statements here today? >> no. but if you wish to were we could arrange that. >> no. i don't want a trip to california. >> no. i think we're okay. we're not asking about that, this is a committee investigation and we would be exempt. >> can council answer that question for us? >> would you care to comment? >> we are official setting. this is an official of the u.s.

congress. speech and debate protection certainly helps us, i don't think any of us will ask about the class action suit. the speech and debate clause. >> i thank the chairman. >> again, i thank the three witnesses. i want to make a comment on what ms. baiten said about myself. there are 435 congressman and every one of us, our job is to help constituents. i have four full-time caseworkers. mr. wright to my left here. -- was my district director at the time. i had christie and jody and ron and linda all intervened for you. i came in at the very end and talked to the president. but not just myself but every member of congress, we've helped

hundreds, sometimes thousands of people every year. your case just happened to be life and death and we put a lot of extra effort into it because we knew how important it was to get you health care as quickly as possible. but it's not just me. it's every member of congress that tries to serve our constituents. my first question will be to the subseque gentle lady to the far right. you said they asked several questions several different ways and they were very tricky. is it your understanding that that's a standard practice in the individual insurance markets? do they start out with the intention of setting you up so that later on they may disqualify you? is that your opinion? >> yes. that's my opinion. i believe they ask you the same question several times so that if you disclose it in one area

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everything to him. and each day that we had him was wonderful. and my daughter, who is behind me, and i and his wife and his other brother, richard, we spent the last 30 days, every single day with him at his side. and like i say, there couldn't be any better memorial to my brother that what this committee is doing because life is so precious. and in spending those last moments of his life with him for 30 days, at the end we realized how important this work you're doing is. and we just want to say, again, from our family, thank you all so much. we know with mr. gordon here that you've been working around the clock, seven days a week. and very, very hard. and mr. gordon, thank you and your staff for all your hard

work. >> thank you. >> ms. baiten, is what -- what have your doctors told you your condition would have been had you had the mastectomy immediately as originally scheduled. would you have had to undergo the chemotherapy and is it probable that the cancer would have spread to the lymph nodes as it apparently has? >> they said that every day i put off the surgery was a really a day that the cells just multiplied and grew. and i think there was a strong chance that in the beginning that maybe i didn't have to have -- i could have had a lesser surgery hand not have had the lymph nodes taken out. i would have had to have chemo but maybe not for as long a period of time. >> if you -- if it's personal, it is personal, you don't have

to tell us. would you tell us as much as you can about your prognosis right now? is the expectation positive for your chemotherapy and cancer remission? or is it still up in the air? >> it's still up in the air. >> still up in the air. mr. chairman, my time is about expired. i'll yield back. i think i speak for every member of this committee on both sides of the aisle. we want to hear from the insurance companies in the next panel. but it is clear that if, in fact, there's a practice of going in after the fact and cancelling policies on technicalities, we have to do whatever is possible to prevent that. i think a company does have the right to make sure there's no fraudulent information. but it's obvious to me -- i'll

guarantee you in ms. baiten's case there was no fraud intended and i'm convinced in the other two witnesses that they were being truthful and honest also. and if a citizen acts in good faith, we should expect the insurance companies to take their money. to act in good faith also. and i will tell you, ms. baiten, we will monitor your case and we will stay in touch with blue cross and blue shield of texas and so long as you do what you're supposed to do, i'll guarantee damn tee you that they'll do what they're supposed to do. with that, mr. chairman, i'll yield back. >> thank you. questions?

i wanted to talk about rescissions for unrelated medical conditions. i understand that they scour the records to find anything but let me understand what happened to you. after your insurance policy began, you developed breast cancer. and the insurance company decided to investigate your application but it didn't find any evidence that you had breast anything before you got your policy, did it? >> no. >> so it was rescinded because, essentially, of pimples. >> they rescinded it because -- the red flag was what that means is something suspicious so they red flag you and they go back and cut your chart apart and what they found on my weight, i think i put down what woman tells you what she really weighs. i weighed more than what i put

down and they said they might not have given me a policy because i was overweight and the second thing was, i had a -- in my earlier years i had a fast beating of my heart. and i didn't have a problem with that anymore. but anyway, that was brought up. everything they could possibly dig up in my whole life history got brought up, unrelated to the cancer. nothing related to cancer. >> so if we lie about our weight at all we better look out, huh? >> they'll get you. >> i better change my driver's license. ms. raditz, it sounds like your brother had a similar experience. he signed up and was stricken with an aggressive tomorrow of lymphoma and then the insurance company which is now mart of ashurnt, investigated the application and didn't find

evidence that your brother had cancer before the insurance policy, right? >> that's correct. >> he did not have cancer prior to -- at the time he signed up he did not have cancer. >> so it rescinded the policy based on alleged misstatement about gallstones and you said -- the aneurysm, a wea blood vessel, does that have anything to do with anything? >> knoting what so ever. -- nothing whatsoever. he never knew he had gallstones. he actually wrote down he had kidney stones and was treated for kidney stones so when he got the letter he thought it was an error. they must have meant the kidney stones. he disclosed he had kidney stones and they knew that when he gave them insurance. he never knew he had gall stones and never to his death was ever treated for gallstones or ever treated for any aneurysm.

>> so in addition to having an unrelated medical condition it was something he didn't know about at all. so when we hear, as perhaps we will about fraud from the insurance companies, he mentioned kidney stones, that he didn't have -- are you say something. >> he did and he did disclose those and was treated for those. and he was given insurance despietd the fact he had kidney stones. had they not been able to find his doctor who was retired and on a fishing trip in another state, they still might not have believed him because he had no knowledge of it. luckily, they were able to find the doctor who was able to say. oh, yes, i never discus those issues with him. i never treated him for those. they were very minor and they appeared on a ct scan but we

never engaged in any treatment for those whatsoever and i never disclosed those. >> ultimately, even that -- didn't it take the attorney general to get it changed? >> oh, yes, it did. it absolutely did. like i said, the attorney general's office and dr. waledman were wonderful and their staff were incredible. they worked daily on this file because they knew that the clock was ticking every day. and their investigations were -- >> what i'm asking is, even if they found the doctor on the fishing trip and the doctor said what he thought, that wasn't enough? >> it wasn't. at that point they still wrote a letter say, no, too bad. it was a material lack of disclosure. and then the doctor had to contact them again and discus it further. >> ms. horton, you're situation

was that you were -- your policy was rescinded because you were seeking some insurance coverage or -- how did that work for you? >> i -- >> is it is the mic on? >> it's green. >> can you not hear me. >> okay. i was seeking the policy when i was going over from a group health insurance. >> so this is just a denial from the beginning -- >> i was accepted and the first time i went to see a doctor i soefed a letter from blue cross stating they wanted all my medical records. and it was a bill for just routine blood work. to test my t-4 level which is your thyroid hormone. and so it was routine blood work that anyone who has an underactive thyroid, which

irdisclosed, would get. i pai almost three times more in premiums then they needed to pay out and they still sent me to this post claims underwriting department where they went that you my medical records. they found mention of something in her notes that she never disclosed to me and both of my doctors wrote letters in support of the fact that they had not discussed it with me. they suspected i had but could not prove. and -- >> so we know that it seems obvious that anything might relate to cancer treatment they're going to scour the records. in your case, it might have been something about the bloodwork that you were having? >> in my case it proves there's no condition too small. they are willing to send you to this department for. i didn't have anything even close to life-threatening nor

aspas as expensive. it shows you can't be too young or too healthy for them to send you to this department. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> in burgess for questions, please. >> thank you. ms. baiten, let me ask you. blue cross and blue shield came back to you after finding out you needed the surgery and said they were taking your insurance and the date of rescission was dated back to the date of enactment of the insurance, is that correct? >> i'm kind of hard of hearing. >> your rescission was effective on 12-07 which was the date the insurance was initiated? >> right. they gave me back my premiums. >> they refunded the -- >> i never cashed the check because mr. barton told me to the to cash it. they rescinded it back to the -- they wanted nothing to do

with me and gave me back every penny that i had ever given them and considered never been insured by them. >> i see. and what about in your brother's situation. was there ever a refund of premium back to the date of the rescission? >> yes. they didn't actually get to that point because it got resolved before they refunded the money but they sent a letter saying you are se as i understanded to the date of original contract which was before my brother had any cancer treatments at all and $200,000 back. so my brother would have had to pay out of pocket over $200,000 in medical expenses. >> but they never got to the point where they sought the refund from your brother? >> again, the $200,000 was the mount that his medical bills oh snee those were subsequent bills? >> right. that would have been what he had to pay out because they were

rescinding their contract. and so they were stating that we're rescinding all the way back to the original date of the contract so you've never had any insurance at all for the entire time you've had cancer. you now have no insurance. >> so that was actually -- that was retroactive pronouncement also dealt with the money they had used to pay for his cancer treatment to date? is that correct? that's correct. >> he was told he had to have a certain sum of money he he couldn't get the bone marrow transplant. is that correct? >> that's correct. >> that wasn't the insurance company that was the neal silt into that was the hospital coordinator. when i called to literally beg her to schedule the stem cell transplant because he was on pins and needles being ill and going through the aggressive