enroll. host: thank you for being on the program. guest: appreciate it. host: in a few seconds we will talk about a new human trafficking report released this week by the state department. first, we want to show you what secretary of state had to say during the release of the report. >> they are forced to work as prostitutes or beg in the streets, fearful of the consequences if they fail to earn their daily quota. women, men, children of all ages and often held far from home with no money, no connection and no way to ask for help. the obama administration used the fight against human trafficking at home and abroad as a critical part of the

foreign policy agenda. united states currently funds 140 antitrafficking programs in nearly 70 countries. as well as 42 domestic task forces to address the challenge here. we're proud of the work we do. we know we have much more ahead of us. economic pressure, especially in this global economic crisis makes more people susceptible to the false promises of traffickers. today, the state department releases the annual report on trafficking and person. it underscores the need to address the real causes of trafficking including poverty, lack law enforcement and the ex-plitation of women. the trafficking report is not an indictment of past failures but a guide for future progress. host: the director of the state's department. for the purpose of this conversation, what is human

trafficking. guest: that is the umbrella term for all of the aspects of what is properly called modern slavery. involuntary servitude, hereditary slavery which still exists in northwest african countries. sex trafficking people held in the sex industry through force and coercion. that manifests itself in a lot of different ways. really it is the same old evil we have been trying to deal with as a country and as a world for centu centuri centuries. host: how big is the problem, especially here in the united states. guest: the numbers are hard to get a handle on in the u.s. the number is as high as 14 to 15,000 people. there are victim benefits and visas from other people who have been victimized of the crimes to about 5,000 people over the last eight or 10 years. it is a significant problem. host: who is involved in the

human trafficking? guest: it ranges from the stereotypical russian mobsters that hollywood and others think of the trafficking central all the way to opportunistic individual employers. when i was at the justice department, we helped rescue a young girl, nine years old, she was brought from egypt, she was enslaved by a couple in orange county, california as a domestic servant. often that child is enslaved in the home. host: we're talking about the recently released trafficking and persons report that came up from the state department with louise sedebaca. he's the trafficking director. if you want to get involve ...

send us a tweet or e-mail us at journal@c-span.org. what stands out about the trafficking report. guest: first of all, the trafficking report, to get everybody up to speed, this is the ninth annual trafficking report. in the latter years of the clinton administration, a coalition came together to address modern slavery to update statutes from the civil war. one of the things that was done was not just to improve the slavery statutes in the u.s., but doing a report card. the annual report is a diagnostic tool, looking at other countries, what are they doing, what could they be doing better? we look at ourselves in this report. this year's report, i think, sends two strong messages. a message of continuity. just as the bush administration continues the clinton

administration's work in 2001, so, too, the obama administration will carry on this fight. it is not a republican and democratic issue, it is an issue of these victims, these people being held in modern slavery. the second thing that the report this year does is our theme is coercion in a time of economic crisis. what we have seen and what secretary clinton pointed out is this notion of global economic crisis is impacting the slavery problem in many different ways. it makes people more vulnerable to the traffickers. they're more likely to have to immigrate for work. they're more likely to take risks they wouldn't have. a woman that thinks she has to travel from moldova to western europe to take a modeling job is less likely to do the due diligence if she needs benefit for her sick parents or get a new roof on the house. so too, the countries that are being hurt by the financial crisis, the nongovernmental organizations that are seeing their endowments or donor base

dry up, those are the people that should be helping to rescue the victims and providing services. we see the perfect storm with the world's economic crisis. unfortunately, it always falls on the most vulnerable, in this case, the ones trafficked. host: tell us about the girl in this picture. guest: this is the young girl that was brought from egypt. the justice department worked -- the civil rights unit of the justice department which has done these cases since it was founded in the 1930's, back then working with the naacp and share cropping in the south. now we see people like her. she was bought from her family in a poor section of cairo. i don't recall the exact amount. i think it was two to $300. and was bought by this wealthy egyptian couple. didn't live even in the house.

lived in the garage. in this photograph, she's in the garage having gone back to visit. she is actually a productive, energetic young college student in southern california now. when the civil rights division went in, they didn't just liberate her using the f.b.i. and the immigration service from the torture she was going under, they worked with nongovernmental organizations and civil society and a lot of those good groups in southern california have helped her put her life back on track. to me, the encouraging thing is she's going to have a great, productive life in america, and the people that did this to her are in prison. host: we're talking about human trafficking and the trafficking of persons report released by the state department this week. we will put the numbers up again if you would like to get involved in the conversation. tell us, how much of this human trafficking revolves around

cultural acceptance of buying and selling human beings as opposed to just straight up criminal activity? guest: it is interesting. there is a remnant of that. that is something we try to deal with in the report. one of the things we look at in the other countries is what is their capacity to address the problem, what is the cultural situation in that country? and how we can bring the cultural norms in line with the international law and international standards. the u.n., has protocols. in 2000 there was a big international convention on slavery trafficking. since 1904 there has been international laws about slavery. but we still see in a lot of places the -- in haiti, the practice of restofic. it is acceptable to give a child a chance to be in the city, maybe to be able to go to school

and be raised as a foster child by a wealthy family. but all too often, the cultural factor is excused for child slavery as a domestic servant. you can say cultural is good. there is a line we cannot tolerate anybody crossing. host: call from baltimore, maryland, you are on the line for democrats. caller: how are you doing? host: turn your radio or television down so you don't get the feedback. caller: is that good? host: go ahead with your question or comment. caller: when they bring -- when these traffickers bring these people into the country, they not only upset the standard of civil rights and things like that, but the workplace and industrialization of the nation would take these people and put them in jobs, which would take

the productive job away from the americans. then, when you make a complaint about this, it's like it never even happened or nobody does anything about it. but on your level, you are more concerned about the trafficking of the people that is coming in, versus the people that is already here that is getting into these jobs and their industrialization of this country will sit there and say, why should i pay this guy more when i can get this trafficker and pay him less. then when you go and you voice your opinion or complain about job discrimination, it seems to be at this state as if no complaint that will be dealt with on a level as far as

economics. would you please elaborate on that. guest: an excellent point. one of the things we have seen historically when you are looking at slavery and trafficking throughout the last 150 years is bonded labor, whether it is people in the southwestern united states in the wake of more in the peenal system. whether in the reconstruction era with folks in share cropping and other things. even recently, there has been the use of vulnerable populations being being held against their will, usually imported from another country, used to deflate wages or be strike breakers for american workers. perfect example, in american tumor, i prosecuted a case where 300 vietnamese and chinese citizens were brought in to work in the garment factories.

the factory owners decided to make more money by using foreign workers because the american citizens knew their rights and knew they deserved a fair wage and good working conditions. instead, as you said, this gentleman turned to the traffickers and a labor broker to bring in people he could enslave. it did affect and undercut the american citizens involved. fighting slavery and human trafficking, it is the right thing to do. there is a civil rights problem to the 13th amendment, but also a way to clean up aloy the of unscrub lighthouse employers trying to go around the labor effor efforts. host: wisconsin, tim on the line.

caller: [inaudible]. guest: i hosted the first policy on the senior operating group on trafficking. the state department, largely what we do is a combination of analyzing the rest of the world. we report on the situation in the different countries. we rank the countries and from that flows consequences, sanctions for the countries on tier iii. there is a tier two watch list. there is a sanction regime. they're on the cusp. we will work with countries and nongovernmental organizations to get programs into the countries. one of the things in my office we work with the foreign prosecutor's offices so they can have the links with the nongovernmental organizations. it is interesting because when you have a situation, say for instance, with child soldiers. a lot of nongovernmental

organizations that have done work with child soldiers trying to bring them out of their situation, trying to help the children, 12, 13-year-old boys that have been forced to do just incredible atrocities, sometimes forced to kill their own family so they then are replaced with the regiment becomes their family. bringing those kids out of that situation is something a lot of nongovernmental organizations have a lot of expertise with. on the other hand, a lot of governments, especially in a destabilized place don't necessarily know how to handle the guerilla leaders or war criminals that are basically doing this to these children. we're happy to see that because of the report and diplomatic pressures from the u.s. we were able to see the democratic republic of congo actually prosecute a major that had enslaved children as child soldiers. that is the diplomatic side of

bringing it together. we work with the department of justice to go out and investigate this. host: corpus christi, texas, on the line for independents. caller: good morning. i have a question. i was wondering if your figure or department included illegal aliens coming up from mexico, living in south texas. i wonder what happens to all these people. to say they're free and work to do as they choose. a lot of those folks just have no choice. back in the '80's, i worked in a refinery for about eight years. whenever we would have a turnaround, they would bring in a bunch of illegals. none of them spoke english and in the first place, that is a very dangerous situation in a

refinery. it is said these folks take jobs that americans don't want. i have seen some of the jobs these folk his to do in refineries, and they're extremely dangerous. i wouldn't take what they were paid or anything to do with the extremely dangerous jobs. guest: i think that gets to the heart of the issue for a lot of what we snow human trafficking in the united states. there is a lot of human trafficking involving human citizens in the industry. what we see as far as heavy industry, factories, et cetera, it typical is this notion that bosses want a compliant and complacent workforce. one that won't complain they're being sent to a chemical area

without the proper equipment or things like that because they're afraid the immigration service will come not help them, but arrest them. i think that is one of the things. on the one hand, we have to figure out what we will do as far as rimgration reform and immigration enforcement, border security. at the same time we have to have the baseline, the constitution, the 13th amendment said involuntary slavery shall exist. the first thing congress did after the civil war is pass a law to make it clear it is applied to everyone, including hispanics in the southwestern united states. it made it clear, the 13th amendment was not just a way for child slavery, for foreigners, immigrants, everyone in the united states. host: this sweet says obama announced he's going after immigration reform. would that include prosecution

of traffic illegal workers. guest: undocumented aliens that find themselves in the situation have access to the t visa and continued presence. what happens is the immigration service uses continued presence to keep people in the short term so they can participate in the investigation and prosecution of the traffickers. and in the language term, the notion of the t visa which has a reunification aspect, those people can and have gone on to lead productive lives in the united states. the idea is when the immigration service does go through that door, it is not so they can grab them and deport them. it is so they can keep them, use them to roll up the criminal organization, whether it is huge or small and make sure they can then have a safe and productive life. host: this is our guest, the

trafficking monitoring director with the state department. we have wittis on the line for the democrats. go ahead. caller: [inaudible] why sending all the jobs and stuff from the country, the china and all this [inaudible] he wouldn't know how a slave would feel to be brought across here [inaudible] and more looking out for people than what is going on all around this world. [inaudible] you know? illegal we have all these other people that is coming in from all these different places. why the government don't stop and take a look at this, see

what is really going on instead of changing other things in other countries. guest: one of the things we see is everything is now interconnected. one of the things you will see in this rcht, the picture of schoolchildren in one area picking cotton. that cotton has basically replaced the cotton in the american south as far as the textile industry is concerned. they have gone to other countries for exploitable workforces. in that area they have -- like met american south, drive the children out of school. have the children working in the cotton harvest. one of the first cases i did as a civil prosecutor in the civil rights division a few years ago, was a migrant worker case in south carolina. the prosecutor they was working with from south carolina one day was astounded to find out that

some of the fields that the mexican and the guatemalan immigrants were being used to pick were being exploited in were fields that he as a child had to pick cotton in, in much the same situation. it is very interconnected. as we fix things at home, some of the unscrupulous employers swing into action in their own industry overseas. host: will the cotton picked with the kids find its way into the united states? guest: indeed. one of the things we're working on is to see how to make sure that the supply chains in america is free from slave-made goods. we will work with companies working with watchdog groups to make sure that type of situation or for that matter, cocoa from ghana and other areas, which is often used with children that are bought for about $100 from

their parents, that type of cocoa isn't coming in to the candy bar that you and your children are eating. host: providence, rhode island, you are on the "washington journa journal". caller: my question is who is responsible -- who is in charge, who is the top people in charge of this? this still sad thing called slavery that has been going on for 6,000 years, slavery. why can't it be stopped? guest: i think that one of the things we see that it can't be stopped necessarily because there are so many profits to be made. you know, when we're looking at who is in charge, unfortunately, the old way of thinking about organized crime, which is very triangular with the mr. big at the top and a bunch of minions underneath it has flattened out. like the internet has flattened out communications.

like over the last 500 years the protestant churches have flattened out the hierarchy of the christian church. all of these things are moving toward a much more diffuse org chart, as it were. that is what we see in the slavery aspect. families that are abusing other people. small business owners that are abusing others. there are the mr. bigs and that same kind of threats. we have analysis to work with the haw enforcement to unravel who it is doing this. it is incredible. if you look at in here in the united states, can you have one trafficker who is holding a bunch of people in a field or in a farm and he gets picked up and put in prison. so then, you know, two counties over, you can have a sadistic

tim with three or four women working on the streets. beating them, taking all their money, not letting them leave when they want to get out of the life. that person is also violating the 13th amendment. it is a threat we have to look at. host: patrick on the line for independents. go ahead. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. my question is more with regard to american children that are illegally taken abroad in parental child abductions, which falls under the same set of laws and same set of protections that all of the trafficking and persons laws protect. on march 11th, the congress voted on the 125, basically condemning the worst country in the world, japan, more american children are illegally abducted to japan.

and once they're abducted, their basic human rights to care, love, and protections and their u.s. constitutional rights are stripped of them. i wonder, you work in the state department, i feel like the state department has totally fallen down and doesn't seem to want to advocate for the children, doesn't seem to want to enforce the u.s. custody laws or jurisdictions previously established when american children are illegally kidnapped abro abroad. guest: unfortunately, that isn't something i can speak directly to. the human trafficking office 13th amendment, focused, not dealing with parental relationships but rather the economic relationship between the boss and an employee president notion of ownership, the notion of indicia and control is something that is the

hallmark of the slavery situation. one thing i see and you are correct h res 125 and chris in new jersey is a leader in this area. there is engagement in this issue. one of the things the state department is looking at is how to deal with this in a holistic matter, what are we looking at as far as interplay between the state court and what is going on in another country which might have its own legal system and own legal take on that particular custody battle. it is something we will continue to engage on. host: new york, good morning. [dial tone]. going to ed in cleveland, ohio. caller: two quick points. does the human trafficking fall under the same legislation as for the earlier government appointees who -- i think three or four years ago, where every other one of them was found to

have an illegal alien working for them and they weren't getting benefits all that stuff? remember where several of them were recused from the getting positions. you know what i am referring to? guest: indeed. what we saw in the '90's and early years of the bush administration, it seemed like a rash of prospective cabinet noomnys that had illegal aliens working in their home whether as a domestic servant, gardener, et cetera. i recall off the top of my head one who was almost the head of the department of online security said the reason he was withdrawing his name is because he had an illegal alien as a maid. it is interesting, there is a little overlap. if the notion of using people who are from other countries are often here illegally as domestic

servants or household staff. the thing that different yates human trafficking from that situation, which is more alien harboring is the notion of exploitation or people being out there and held against their will. there are interesting cases in the 1930's and 1940's where the justice department were trying to get african-american women out of servitude as domestic servants being held against their will as nannies or as housekeepers. you fast forward 75 years later, the song sounds same but as shawn conyers says, it is in a new language. host: thank you for being on the program. the report trafficking and persons report released this week by the state department. guest: thank you. host: we have an update from tehran. the headline, witnesses report fierce clashes on tehran

streets. witnesses said police fired teargas and water scannons -- and cannons in defiance, the most serious conflict since the 1979 islamic resolution. they describe fierce clashes after 300 protesters chanted "death to the dictator and dictatorship." we will probably have more on that testimony on the next edition of "washington journal." we want to tell you who will be on the program tomorrow. tony blankly and john christopher bua will be here to talk to us about health care debate. other issues on capitol hill and u.s. policy. also tom davis former congressman from virginia to talk to us about health care and virginia