but for the moment, obama is moving reasonably toward disaster. guest: if you look at a presence in the past, fdr, lincoln, truman, they went into these world changing crisises and they did not have it down all right away. they made all kinds of errors. i am looking pass conventional wisdom, looking for what might be called radical pragmatists, things that work that went behind any kind of ideologies. what in the and bailed out the country. that is the way that the obama administration will have to start thinking. and host: this tweet says that

obama's ideas are all old ideas. this has failed every time it has been tried. guest: calling obama a socialist or fascist is ridiculous. what i was hoping is that he would be more of a pragmatic liberal. we are not seeing that unfortunately. some of these charges are amazing. it is one of the reason the republican party is in the trouble is in. you are still getting the old cliche accusations. it is a shame to see that we have two major parties, that one have them has decided speak this way host. host: virginia is next. caller: i agree with a lot that

kevin bacon is same. -- kevin baker is saying. you talk about politicians and the belt way and how everything is being manipulated and the lobbyists. that is true. but there is a huge factor that obama mobilized during the campaign, but he is not mobilizing right now. it is supposed to be the dnc that is mobilizing us, getting us to get out there. it wasn't personalities that got obama elected. it helped every now and then to get an endorsement, but it was organization and education. i am doing phone banking for the health clear path -- plan.

i add things that the dnc did not tell us to. i looked up my representatives and senators stands and i tell them and they are shocked. for all of this going back and forth about who is on and who is off, they just don't know. guest: that is a very good point. apart from obama or the dnc, we have to be mobilizing our self. i don't think the american people -- our passivity is frightening. we have to be out there fighting about their representatives are saying and doing and holding their feet to the fire. host: next call from ohio. good morning. caller: i have appreciated everything you have stated. there is one thing i want you to

speak a little bit more about. we said about the ama saying, we are fine with what we have and we are not going to make a move. i think this is something that the obama administration will have to take on, the big people like that, the health care providers. can you touch on more than that? guest: the ama is somewhat overrated in the media. it only represents about 20% of all doctors. it is very high profile. this is the case in america. they are not going away.

unfortunately, they have their head in the sand that they will be quite willing to go on even when the system has collapsed. the fees can get raised and it becomes a vicious cycle. interest groups in this country are often so dedicated to themselves, so used to lobbying for what they want, that without active up position, there will keep on doing the same thing.

when he discovers the map without chinese silver mine, by the time he is in his forties he is the highest salaried man in the world, devoted himself to philanthropy. it leads the effort to occupied

germans. he keeps millions of people from dying. when he becomes president, he is on top of it long before most other people in government. in the end, he is not able to break with economic truisms, not able to break with the conventional wisdom of time. that was the tragedy of the man. host: our next call is from north carolina. caller: as far as fascism, i

believe the last part was fascism. i want to talk about social security, how they have broken all of it. the want to stick their noses to iran's business. i feel like obama is doing the right thing. thank you. guest: i think he has been pretty prudent about iran, both in try to make over jet -- overtures, and not letting himself become a factor in what is going on there now. i am sure he sympathizes with the democratic protesters, as do all americans pretty much.

he realizes that pete cantus become -- -- that he cannot just become a factor in it. this kind of huge thing that goes on in washington where people like john mccain come out and criticize him for it. it has led to unnecessary wars and iraq, which have albrecht the budget for some time. host: you write, barack obama has been able to make his actions live up to his words. healthcare is being gunned to death. he has done nothing to pass card check provisions, he has capitulated uncap and trade from the budget outline.

next call is from maryland. good morning. caller: basically, we have the senate and the executive and the judiciary. i don't think anyone thinks obama is responsible. we have the speaker of the house that is not holding forth for the democratic body. guest: i am critical of these other bodies. one of the sad things is tell little constructive support the president is getting from the other parts of the government, from the democratic party. we have elected this genius, now

we will sit back and watch while he solves everything. that is an infantile way of fixing democracy. at the same time, he will have to make his mark with the congress, and get it to respond to his initiatives. host: this is one of the drawings from inside her print -- harper's bazaar magazine. callercaller: i am the owner ofs

corporation. somebody has to pay for all of this. i think i am paying too much. if you want a level playing field, though we need some time of better tax lawyer for the chips and? 10% are paying 90 percent, that's -- 80 percent, that only this 20%.

[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] guest: in terms of a tax on consumption at the time that the economy is bleeding and we're trying to get people to buy more, i don't think that is a good idea. in terms of how much people are taxed in this country.

caller: business has the upper hand because a sign paychecks. there are cats to the problem. business can outsource, invest overseas. believe me, other business when i speak to are tired of paying for everyone else. maybe these men should have two numbers. thank you for a time. caller: there was a lot of

information about money being funneled of the united states and given to ubs. they were then find and went before congress and said i am sorry, i wanted again. recover said ok. the 24 -- 24,000 people that funneled money out of the united states, they only had to give two hundred 50 names to the irs. i was wondering what the media never covered that story? or covered it in a limited way. guest: the caller has a good point.

one of the things that undermined it hoover was say finance corp., which was an idea to pump money into failing banks, and railroads. it was used very well by the roosevelt administration during the new deal. a badly undermined -- by the people running it. they gave a huge amount of money to banks. there is a huge risk of both perception and reality with having the entire financial deregulation going on now, being done by these people with very close ties with people to wall

street like geithner and sommers. there is a feeling that the deregulation does not have any teeth in it. these are not being properly addressed by regulations going on now. host: our guest is kevin baker, a contributing editor -- a contributing writer for harper's magazine. one person writes, i understand quite well and a comment that says you are 100% correct. obama has blown it. he had a mandate and retreated

on every major issue that that matter to democrats. guest: it is to opaque for me, a lot of this stuff. i think it is unnecessarily complex. all of the stuff going on right now with health care, single payer taken off of the table, talking about coming up with coke-ops --co-op's, forcing people to buy insurance. it is very complicated. under clinton, the system got more and more complex and most people could not figure out what was going on.

i think there is a huge disappointment that is starting to well up among the people who were the core of barack obama us constituency. he remains immensely personally popular. we are kind of waiting for something to happen, and it is not there. some of us have been waiting for things for a generation. the fact that they are not even getting a hearing is disappointing. host: north carolina on the republican line. good morning. caller: i watch c-span regularly.

i worked in health care for 35 years. i have two medical license and a but thatcher's degree in business. i just want to know more about business and thought that i would get into the business aspect of health care, because i am new that my health was not going to make it after working. nevertheless, what i wanted to share with your guests and everyone else is that, back in the '60s and '70s when there was not as much involvement with the insurance companies and the government, health care had a very healthy, competitive edge where you had hospitals across the street from each other that were competitive with each other. as an example, one of the

hospitals in west north carolina had a catholic hospital across the street as opposed to the county regional medical center. they were very competitive. in winston salem, want a teaching hospital, besides being the county hospital. my point is that the more involvement that we have from outside forces actually has inhibited the competitiveness and the capitalistic -- advantages that the hospitals were reaping back then. the third party involvement -- and they were hindering and

really complicating this over the course of two decades. host: i will stop you there and we will get kevin baker to respond. guest: i am not sure what the caller means by third-party intervention. that generally has been h m the o's. i rushedh-- hmo's. if you need a kidney transplant, you cannot go to the marketplace of health care. it is a different thing. i think we should be looking at health care as something that helps to support the marketplace. one of the problems in this

country is that all too often we expect everything to be this great capitalist competition. it will just not be the case. as someone who has been self employed for a long time, there is not a lot of great competition going on out there. it is a giant cartel. host: a comment, is this a radical thought? repeal the 16th amendment and quit paying interest on our own money. tim is joining us from florida. good morning. caller: good morning. i have been a lifelong democrat. i just recently changed my party affiliation to independent.

democrats and republicans have their head in the sand. we have over 7 million americans unemployed. they are losing their houses and stretching to pay their mortgage. we have 12 million illegal aliens here doing american jobs. i drive a truck. i drive by all the new construction and housing projects. you see nothing but illegal aliens. you have the people running around in their air-conditioned pickup trucks but the ones doing the work is the illegals. the point is that if you want to fix the economy and put the american people back to work, you have to enforce the law. guest: good luck getting 12 million people back to their

home countries. i think what you have to look at is all these americans who are not willing to pay their friends and neighbors a living wage and look to pay people saw the wages that the illegal week -- illegal aliens are getting. what about the fact that this whole economy was systematically -- systematically dismantled in the last 30 years? that strikes me as much of a betrayal as anything. guest: illegal aliens are an easy target. these people have a very hard life. and we should be careful to get people not to be against them. host: those with low or no work ethics want all the benefits

than those who work hard. it is as simple as that. guest: i'm not sure exactly what she is saying, there is such a thing as what is it that we are not willing to pay a living wage here to people? isn't that supposed to be part of capitalism? you have trouble finding people to do any of the many things that illegal aliens do in this country. shouldn't you all for higher wages? host: the july issue of harper's magazine, our last caller is from maine. caller: i want to tell mr. baker i agree with everything he is saying. he is taking the words out of my mouth. my question was, how do we get involved as citizens?

i have written to congressmen and senators and katzenbach a lot of rhetoric about, at no, they can't raise minimum wage because that would affect the small mom-and-pop people who are trying to make a living. it seems like, i can't seem to get anywhere with people. how do i go about having my voice heard, and getting others to agree with me? host: another voice, there'll price who sent this in, does kevin baker remember this, i hear your voices, i need your help and i will be your president also. guest: he's referring to barack obama's acceptance speech and referring to the republican party. i think he has made an active effort to recruit republicans.

one of the great things fdr had going on were terrific republicans coming up with great ideas. we have not seen that here. the other question, how do get people to respond? i have been dismayed over the years of calling and writing representatives. you're lucky you got a response. i don't often get a response. all we can do is keep at it and vote for good people and encourage good people that you now to run for office. join labor unions and groups that will press for reforms that we need. it is a very difficult thing. the system is unresponsive right

now. there is a huge amount of money being poured into it from very self interested people. it will take a lot of work to overcome that. just keep trying to do everything that we can come right in and get other people to write in. vault, petition, do everything available to you in a peaceful way to try to change the outcome. host: kevin baker a contributing editor for harper's magazine, thank you for being with us. a link to that article is available on our web site. the washington journal gets underway at 78 am eastern time. congress will continue to tackle the issue of health care. we are joined by the chief correspondent and the expert -- the president