i have no doubt that first and foremost we have a sense of respect for ourselves, and our signature must mean something. we have signed the treaty. if we violate the treaty, how could we possibly think that if tomorrow we want to become a member of the world trade organization, if you violate this signature, not committed to it, why should you trust us on anything resign after that will ever be respected by ourselves? that is my position on the subject. thank you. >> i would like to refer to a former question concerning the future of iran. when you look at people who have an important role like mr. mousavi, mr. rafsanjani, mr. kasai me, they are all part of the regime. but this movement go far beyond -- does this movement go far beyond? how do you envision the future of iran? will it be an overthrow of hypocrisy -- will it be an

overthrow of the theocracy? but will do you envision for yourself and the family? -- what role do you envision yourself and the family? >> as a partially explain earlier, the situation has grown just -- has grown beyond just the result of an election and a candidate. most iranians are quite aware of the fact that having always been limited to prescreened candidates of the regime's choice as to who they get to vote for, to begin with, they were stuck in a position of having to choose between a lesser of two evils, or multiple evils, whenever it is. it presents an opportunity for such prescreened candidates to join with the masses, and it would be difficult for us not to anticipate for caller: calleat t

we would be faced with an impasse. you cannot at the same time hold allegiance to the regime and claim that you are with the people. a decision will have to be made pretty soon. the legitimacy of such candidates is the direct result of whether or not they actually take the side of the streets and peel away from a regime, or forever lose their legitimacy, the very same way that the supreme leader has completely lost it now. we will see how this develops. i always said to all of you, and i repeated yet again today, that my sole objective is to help my compatriots preach freedom -- help my compatriots reach freedom. let's have democracy in iran, let's have the freedom to vote

and choose freely. i would like to be in my country one day and come behind a podium and talk to my people and every other candidate, for whatever reason, i would like to talk to their people, and let the people decide. right now, all i am try to do is to help liberate our country sooner rather than later. we don't have hundreds and thousands of other nedas of our country die, when they could avoid having to continue dying and being repressed. that is my objective my objective is to see a day that the iranians can go to the polls and elected the government of their choice. we demand, i demand, that parliamentary system of democracy, secular in the sense that there is a clear separation between religion and government, cuts to tissue -- a constitution

based on the international declaration of human rights, and having talked to a whole host of political groups in iran, from left to the right, marty stuart republicans come marxists, landed since -- leninists, socialists, we differ in the ultimate form the government could take. but we all agree that the only solution for your right to come out of the soul is to adopt a democratic -- for iran to come out of this whole is to elect a democratic parliamentary system. it is about freedom and democracy and human rights. i stand ready to serve them in that capacity, and i've always said that the day my fellow compatriots will finally go to the polls to decide the fate of arad through a referendum, -- the fate of iran through a referendum, to me, that day the

mission will be accomplished. right now, this is a premature subject to debate about what we will end up tomorrow in iran. the point is what we're trying to do today to liberate our country, and that is what i'm doing right now. [applause] >> thank you very much. you have given a couple of examples, but what would you -- when would you be able to say, what would be the sign or the person who would make this sea change, the change of heart within the establishment that would signal to you that there is something going on within the religious establishment toward more democratic? >> i am at maintaining, among other things, close contact with

highly placed elements within the system, on the civilian side as well as the military intelligence all of it -- military intelligence level of it. we are tirelessly examining every possible scenario of their own exit strategy. we're not reinventing the wheel here. let me explain the scenario where security forces of any state or system that has been repressive, and we saw this in the case of the soviet union, the case of czechoslovakia, we saw that in many other examples, in the case of serbia -- seldom do we see a military or paramilitary or security forces taking any initiative. usually, it has been refusal to carry out orders of repression by joining with the people. i remember the images of mr. yeltsin standing on that tank in front of the duma. this was not a coincidence. it was part of an evolution of

thinking and peeling away from the collapsing soviet system. we have seen, more often than not, security forces siding with the people and remaining neutral. you saw that even in the case of the 1979 revolution. although they had orders not to fire on people. therefore, what is going to be the pivotal moment is, in my view, three factors -- the resilience and sustenance of the movement by the people, the fact that elements that want to peel away know that their backs are not to the wall, that there is another boat they can jump to, so the movements dynamics is key, the behavior, taking a position, and much more tacit support than just verbal encouragement by the international community in a

direct engagement with the people and support for that, is another factor. and ultimately, how much the morale of the remaining core group desperately trying to hang on to this system and preserve it allows them to fully detached from them, dissension within the ranks itself. the caylee evaluation of that is what ultimately makes a difference. -- the daily evaluation of that is ultimately what makes a difference. it has to start -- the good news is that it has already started. the extent of which, i cannot really tell you right now. it depends on many factors. but this is pretty much the dynamics of change. more often than not, we have seen that. this is not myanmar in isolation that can keep aung san suu kyi and people like cuher

completely isolated. anecdotally, i have had reports, even as late as today, that we are seeing signs of solidarity. we already have stories up on stories of members of the security forces who, after their shift, go home and dressed in civilian clothes and rejoin people on the street. five hours ago they were there with their clubs. this is happening under our eyes. we have to see how the dynamics carry out. but the sustenance of the movement is imperatively a vital and pivotal. >> you said you were in close contact with military intelligence. >> not just military intelligence, but various apparatus within the system. i cannot define in detail. >> you are saying that you're talking to members of military intelligence and they are currently making plans to either

step down or leave the country? >> two groups -- those with the regime that are anticipating every scenario of survivability of the system with their plan -- we can guess what that will become all but massive repression to complete silence the masses, but on the other hand, there are those contemplating the candidacy of when and how owill it be their moment to join? this is a complicated matter, and we cannot put them on the spot and expose them. some of it is coordination that we're trying to have with them. the other part is in what way they will have to implement this on their own rights. at this point, it is very under the radar, for obvious reasons. but i anticipate that at some point, there will be much clearer positions announced by those who are more visible within this very system, because

today, the moment of truth has arrived in iran. iranians need to know who stands with them and who stand against them. as much as the people on the streets demand the elements -- the elements stuck in this regime know they can no longer be around the bush. sustenance of this movement will be the element of constant pressure on the system, favoring the likelihood of more peeling away from the regime rather than the reserves. -- rather than the reverse. that is why it is so critical for iranians to know that to this entire process, the andand content -- unconditional support is an added element that can help the sustenance of this movement and further deteriorate and fragment the regime beyond what it already has started to

demonstrate in terms of internal fragmentation. >> i'm from neighboring azerbaijan. do you have real information about the death toll, how many people were killed on the streets of teheran, tehran -- of iran, tehran, because the official figures to not seem to reflect the real level. and how the events going to develop? >> it is very, very difficult to have an actual headcount, because some of the victims' bodies are dragged to places that even their own families cannot recover them. that is also, perhaps, part of the contingency of the regime to hide as much as possible the number of the victims from public eye and public knowledge. it is difficult at this moment to give an actual headcount.

the victims are numerous, not just in the main cities, but the provinces. not all the numbers have been reported by the media. i am not faulting the media -- it discuss you perhaps do not have access within iran to get such data. -- it is because you perhaps do not have access within iran. i want to express my gratitude to summon a -- so many who have the opportunity to connect and said this kind of information. we may be able to get a better assessment. as for the veracity of the information, from my own part, i am trying to be extremely careful to make sure that the information we receive is accurate, because in the middle of this game, some people always try to come every now and then, and i hate to use this word -- tried to get cute and exaggerate numbers and things like that. we are very cautious about

statistics and numbers that we get. but to address a question, the numbers have been able but higher than what has so far been reported. we hope this will not continue, in the sense that we will try to encourage, as i said earlier, the security forces to reduce their crackdown. but we cannot control in any form, and as i said, there are two elements that are the question mark -- how long will the basij continue with the instruments of recession, but also the hired thugs within the regime? right in the same complex which was the other dicks complex in tehran -- the olympics complex in tehran, there is a group of five dozen people are more who have been specifically trained -- 5000 people or more who have been specifically trained, if

called for by the regime, as the instrument. i also heard reports that the machine as important elements from abroad, up from pakistan, from hamas, being used to quash people as we speak. how many elements from outside coming in as a direct collision as to whether the regime will still utilize them and create more casualties. >> bonjour. i would like to come back to present topic. i would like to know if you think president obama -- >> name and organization. >> do you think that president obama's statements were forceful enough? do you wish he would condemn more directly the actions of the actual regime? >> as i said in my press

conference -- this is not just directed to president obama, but to all world leaders who can take a defined position on the subject -- if you separate the issue of what could be argued or painted as interference in the nation's, from the issue of standing firm on the question of human rights violations, in which there is no reason why this regime or any can object to the fact that, whether it is president obama with canadian prime minister or the french president, will make life easier for the heads of state to be able to say exactly what we expected them to say, showing absolutely no remorse or any kind of caution when they stand firm on that question. separating one from the other. let's not have the regime in iran define what is interference and what is not, as i said in my opening statement. that is what i hope the white house, state department, and other governments and their

foreign ministries could absorb and understand, that this is expected, and they should have no fear or question in their mind that they will come in any form or shape jeopardize or give ammunition to the regime to use that as a pretext for an excuse. >> but you think -- but do you think that president obama was too cautious? >> it started on a curve, and he is caught up to what some of his colleagues, or more forceful in statements -- who were more forceful and estimates, had said earlier. if the white house itself shows more than activity and language and town with the streets of teheran, that is a good progress, and we encourage and appreciate that as well. >> you mentioned that some elements of hamas in iran are defending the region.

my question is what about hezbollah? there are some elements of hezbollah in iran. second question, what is your opinion about mousavi exactly? >> well, the regime will obviously have the ability to call upon proxy's it has set up for -- from years ago. hizbollah in lebanon, for instance. speaking of hezbollah, there are elements that are recruiting, as far as the venezuela and colombia members for hezbollah. can i call them back for additional help? evidently, they are doing that in some cases. it has been reported that hamas elements have been called by the regime for suppression inside iran right now.

it is no longer question of any particular candidate, it is about the sanctity of the ballot box and sovereignty and the legitimacy of the regime as a whole. the fate of people like mr. mousavi lies, in my opinion, as it clear demarcation from the regime. you cannot on the one hand be a candidate of people demanding justice and peace of the the regime -- demanding justice vis- a-vis the regime and upheld the system. that will be the question of whether or not he has actually peeled away from the system for the people. you cannot have any more. -- cannot hedge any more. you have to pick one of the other.

>> i am a member of the national press club and a freelance writer from buffalo, new york. in your earlier answer, you leave open the door for future participation in a democratic iran. can you tell us, if you have any research today, that tells how many people would support you in iran? in other words, in this turbulent time, what is your approval rating? >> well, people support me because of the very fact we're talking the same language -- freedom,, democracy, human rights. i'm not demanding people to support me today because of me. i'm demanding people support me so that i can best serve them achieve what their goal is, which is to achieve freedom. that is a totally different function. if tomorrow -- for the umpteenth time, i repeat -- if tomorrow in

iran there was a choice for people to say "we want mr. pahlavi, after liberation, if we want to be in -- if we want him to be involved," we will hear the answer that. that question is irrelevant, irrelevant to what we're doing now. i have just as many supporters who are republicans and would want to have a republic in iran, but support me as someone committed to bring everyone under the same flag to fight a common cause for freedom. this is not about ideology or an institution. this is about democracy and human rights. this is what i am standing for. this is my unique platform. it is not about an institution it. it is not about the past. it is about where we are now and what we want to go. -- and where we want to go.

i will leave that to date to the iranian people to debate in the constitution form of government they want to have. but i sincerely do not believe that this is today's today. the people i talk to on every walk of the iranian families are not focused on talking about the party affiliation or the social economic problems or whether i'm a monarchist or a republican. today, the first priority for us is freedom. we are there to guarantee the fact that no iranian will be left behind in his stores are votes. we are fighting first and foremost for that right to freely decide. i stand, if not with a 17 million. and, -- 17 million armenians, 60 million armenians -- iranians,

to upend the system. [applause] >> kyoto news. i have a question about the numbers coming out to the rally spurred we have heard mixed reports about how many are attending. if you have an idea from the sources of whether the numbers have changed greatly in the past week and half, and whether you see them growing in the next few days. >> the numbers have been quite high. i think it has been, perhaps, the biggest gatherings that i remember ever in the history of iranian politics. not just in tehran, but the overall numbers of people being out there, and not just because of a political campaign or election campaign. now the call on the streets is everybody saying "we want freedom."

this is well beyond elections now. this is about the sanctity of the ballot box. the flagrant stealing of the vote -- not necessarily because of this or that candidate, people saying "we have had it. how long are we going to put up with this situation is clear that is the spirit of this movement, which has grown -- how long are we going to put up with this situation?" it is clear that that is the spirit of this movement. only a few months ago, most of the world media would say, "well, at least iran has more democracy than many of its neighboring countries, because they have elections." well, that elections in the soviet union -- they had elections in the soviet union. it involves everyone. it is beyond one camp or

another. it is not about those who are supporters of mr. mousavi, or those who are supporters of x, y, scorceor z. this theocracy has basically lost any last shred of legitimacy that it could have claimed by virtue of the final positioning of the supreme leader, the fact of the past has come off and the regime is pretty much moving into the direction of becoming a complete police state and dictatorship. it respective of whether it is religious or not religious, it is the ultimate nature. fluctuations may exist, as i said in my opening statement earlier, depending again on sustenance or not. in terms of the collective, grass-roots movement, it is moving, as i'm speaking to you today, more and more in terms of participation.

that is the natural conclusion of the effect of people moving away from the regime had been lost completely its legitimacy. that is to be anticipated. >> i am just full of questions today. >> you won't let go, will you? >> i'm wondering if you could talk about the struggle of the religious clerics, and the whole struggle of rafsanjani, and the arrest of his family. do you think that perhaps we have not heard much from rafsanjani is a signal that perhaps he is getting support? we have heard some of the ayatollah's speak out against all the common day. -- against all the common name. -- against ayatollah khamenei. >> thank you for that question. the voices within the clerical

hierarchy, both inside and outside iran, and i specifically up that i had al- sistani will step in -- that ayatollah al-sistani will step in at some point -- it is a moment where i anticipate more and more prominent members of the traditional clergy, who, by the way, from the very beginning, were outside of the system, or perhaps also be more encouraged to make clearer statements, not just on khamanei, but the very fact that would khomeini created in 1979 goes against the very tenets of islam, with the clerics believe is not the responsibility for them to govern. we have the case of monterrey,

and another who was tortured in prison pumps -- montazeri, and another who was tortured in prison. this is a regime that does not even pity a member of their own, let alone anyone else. this has become a defining moment for clerics both in the interest of the nation, but also in the interest of the faith and the clerical establishment, to show a complete demarcation from the system. >> i have a quick question -- my understanding is that there is a fair amount of differences between the iranians in the countryside and those in the cities. what proportion of the population lives in cities, to what extent to the protesters represent the people of iran? >> i did not hear the last part

of your question. >> to what extent to the protesters represent the people of iran? >> you have people from all walks of life walking those streets. even including the clerics and members of the militias that are part of the system, who also show solidarity or some kind of coordination with complicity. i think it is very broad based. it is not limited just to the intelligentsia or a group of students. no, it is people all ages and all walks of life in the society that are in defiance, collective defiance, of this regime. >> mondawmin for middle east truth. as you know, mir hossein mousavi was a member of the republican guard and had to be selected by the clerics even in order to run. you really feel that this is