curb it, yes, they can be held liable. but going to court and trying to hold prison officials liable is not easy. why host: did you agree to take on this commission? i received a call from the white house asking me to become a member of the commission initially, and i agreed and i received a subsequent call asking if i would be the chairperson. i have a reputation of being very tough when it comes to crime and punishment, but on the other hand, i do believe that when individuals are detained, they have a right to be treated humanely. they don't lose their human- rights when they are incarcerated. and because i knew it was a problem and the impact on individuals that are sexually abused, and the fact that most of them will come back into society, i felt it was appropriate we address this problem to ensure that hopefully individuals would not be damaged more so than when they went in and therefore pose a greater threat to society.

host: what are your benchmarks? what will you look at over the next year to determine whether or not this commission and the recommendations are heard? guest: i hope the attorney general will is essential to adopt what we recommended because we went through a laborious five-year effort to make sure we got it right. we think we have. we hope the attorney general will see it that way and implement these efforts in the federal bureau of prisons and that would be a laboratory to show state and local governments that they can accomplish success consistent with what we believe we -- this will bring about it adopted at the national level. host: but judge reggie walton, chair of the national prison rape prevention commission. thank you appeared in a couple of minutes, the situation in honduras and a broader discussion of what is next with u.s. policy toward colombia and central america in general. and a 5-4 decision by the

supreme court and many other decisions by this court as it wraps up for the summer recess this last day of june. "washington journal" continues in just a minute. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] >> how is c-span funded? >> publicly funded? >> donations, maybe? >> government? >> c-span gets its funding through taxes. >> federal funding? >> a public funding think? >> may be, i don't know. >> 30 years ago america's cable companies greeted c-span as a public service, a private business initiatives. no government mandate, no government money. >> this holiday weekend on open. >> tv." and unfamiliar side of the nation's first president as we

are who live from george washington's estate with a stirring and author john ferling on the essence of george washington. join our three-hour conversation sunday on "in depth. coast -- on c-span2's "book tv." host: robert white is president of center for international policy. he served in a number of capacities and central america, including in el salvador and also honduras. i want to ask about the situation in honduras, but crew that took place. was expected and how did it come about? guest: i don't think it was expected but there was a standoff. and there was the supreme court and congress on one side and president zelaya on the other. and how that would have played out, we don't know. but then the military

intervened and manhandled president zelaya and threw him out of the country. and i applaud president obama and secretary of state clinton for taking a strong stand against this coup. host: let me share with the president -- secretary of state said yesterday. >> as we move forward, all parties have the responsibility to address the underlying problems that led to yesterday's events in a way that enhances democracy and the rule of law in honduras. to that end, we will continue working with me oas and other partners to construct a process of dialogue and engagement that will promote the restoration of democratic order, address the serious problems of political polarization in honduras, restore confidence in their institutions of government and ensure that honduras' most successfully towards its scheduled presidential elections in november of this year.

host: yet, mr. white, she did not call it a coup. why? guest: because the minute the secretary of state uses the word coup, all assistance to honduras is cut off by law. i think the secretary of state handled this very well because she does not want to see 912 zelaya restored to power only to continue his quest -- to change the constitution. that is what has aroused the opposition of the other parties, and indeed, in his own party. host: us some background on our guest. he served in that -- in the foreign service, and maceda to. why and el salvador, stationed the columbia and latin american director for the peace corps.

currently president for the center of international policy. there are an estimated 500 u.s. troops in honduras. can you envision more heading down there? guest: i would hope not. i think that what honduras least needs now is any sign of militarization. the army has no real function. they have no external enemies and they have a long history of coups against the constitutional order. host: guatemala, el salvador, nicaragua span they will halt trade or commerce to honduras. what does it mean? guest: at it is more of a gesture, but and and for a gesture. it shows the democratic governments of central america are sought leave behind nine well zelaya and are -- sloppily

-- solidly behind manuel zelaya. host: can you give us a brief history? guest: central america has been a source -- a problem for the united states because we neglected for decades and then we intervened militarily as we did in the 1980's. we sponsored the war in el salvador, in nicaragua. these were useless exercise is because now both of the parties that we intervened against are in power -- the revolutionary party in el salvador and daniel ortega in nicaragua. i think that the history of u.s. intervention in central america

has been a sorry one, and we recently at least been on the side of democracy. i wish that we would put less emphasis on military assistance and more emphasis on helping them with public administration and economic and social development. host: this came just a day after -- it took place yesterday with the president of colombia in the oval office. our relations with the president's colombia, uribe? guest: the bush administration overlooked a lot of offenses that the uribe government has committed against human rights. now, uribe did something very

important in colombia. he restored order. and that was crucial. governments have to have order, countries have to have ordered. but now he has violated human rights and a most egregious way, and we hope that the ngo community in the united states is very hopeful that president obama and secretary of state clinton will not give president uribe bay free ride but will point out that 95 labor union leaders have been killed in colombia over the past year. that he licensed but presidential secret service to tap phones of human rights workers. there has been simply -- and i notice " the new york times" this money goes after president

chavez as a day aspire were of zelaya's attempt to extend his term but the fact is, of course, uribe has also distorted the constitutional process in colombia and extended the term bear. -- there. it limits the influence when it comes to discouraging president zelaya. host: why such a visible overall -- all will office meeting between the president of colombia and president obama? guest: columbia is a huge country, and it important country. and it is a rock of stability in latin-american. -- in latin america. but it will not be if the human rights terms of the colombian

people are not addressed. and the army and many of its elements have been allied with paramilitary forces, and this has got to stop. i hope that the obama administration will not emulate the bush administration and give uribe a blank check but will ask him tough questions on human rights. host: our guest is well versed on the politics and political geography of central america, having served in a number of capacities in colombia and paraguay, else out a door and honduras. our phone lines are open -- ellis salvador and honduras. here is what the president had to say about the situation in honduras. >> let me first of all speak about the coup in honduras because this was the topic of conversation between myself and

president uribe. all of us have great concerns about what has taken place there. president zelaya was democratically elected. he had not yet completed his term. we believe that a the coup -- we believe that the coup not legal and zelaya remains the president of honduras. the present host: using the word -- host: president using the presidentcoup -- the president using the word coup. guest: will probably overlooked the president's casual use of the word, but it was a coup. i think the secretary of state was careful not getting zelaya a blank check because she wants him before he is returned with

our support and the organization of american states, she wants him -- and i think properly so -- to give up any ambitions of a plebiscites that would extend his term. host: john is on the phone from bridgeport, conn. caller: his center should be called the center for international bull crap because this is the biggest bull crap i have ever heard. the president can mention coup anytime he wants -- he won -- i know it is funny. if hillary or obama wants to cut off aid that would send a direct message. number two, he is talking to the guy from colombia, because nothing is going to change. he talked about has block, a loss -- has a lot, hamas, and

ahmadinejad and this is right below what's -- hezbollah. what about foreign country raping? you don't tell like it is. guest: i am not sure what his point is. he obviously does not like what the united states foreign policy is. but i am not clear on his particular spirit host: a comet saying -- host: this is a comment -- explain costa rica's unique government. guest: coaster rica should be a model for the rest of central america and foreign policy in the region -- coaster rate cut should be a model. that is why i pointed to militarization of central america. the emphasis of narcotics interdiction, that those two policies have cost central

america great wit. we have one or real statesmen in central america, and that is the president of costa rica. i think in the rest of central america, we have a new president of el salvador that shows great promise. but in guatemala, the 40% of the territory is under in the control of narcotics dealers, the government does not run in that area of what's ramallah. honduras has been foundering because of a lack of skilled administration, because of a lack of commitment. and nicaragua, daniel ortega has taken away the civil liberties of a great many people for opposing him. so, the picture there is not a pretty one.

and i would hope that under the obama administration, we would take a new look and start listening to the central americans on issues such as the role of the military, and particularly, the idea that the u.s. military, the cia, and the drug enforcement administration have formed a policy there that is destructive of the civilian order. host: ambassador white is a graduate of the tufts university school of law and diplomacy and former senior associate of carnegie endowment for peace. his current title is president of the center for international policy. tyrone is on the phone from memphis. caller: how are you doing?

we are spending too much money on foreign stuff, all these wars and stuff. we've got a lot of problems over here. we need to bring all of the troops back and give these people jobs over here. a lot of folks here in the united states -- we need to get the jobs that instead of concentrating on other folks issues. host: thank you for the comment. let me go back to something we saw earlier -- senior administration officials say they want to "talk our way through this" with key players in honduras. who is talking to whom? guest: well, at this point, i think that the head of the oas is doing a lot of the negotiating, and that is proper.

there is a sense that democracy is the official governing doctrine of the americans, and any coup requires a meeting of foreign ministers of the organization of american states. but you can be certain that the american ambassador is also negotiating here. and we must negotiate the return of zelaya. that is the crucial point. he is the elected president of honduras, and he must be restored. it is going to be difficult because you have to make -- the head of the congress there has made a terrible error of having himself sworn in as president. so, it is going to be difficult for him to back down and difficult for the supreme court to back down. but this must be accomplished.

i think the only way it can be accomplished is for presidents zelaya to give up any ambitions of the constitutional amendments to allow him to run for a second term. that has got to be the deal. host: let me ask you in the "show me the money" department. president obama vowed to give hundreds by next year close to $7 million in aid and also honduras is a recipient of a millennium grant in excess of $200 million. will that money stopped if this continues? guest: yes, yes. there will be no money from the united states -- host: it is that a bargaining tool? guest: certainly is. a very good point. this coup government will leave. there is no way it can stand up to the entire hemisphere. even one of the more

conservative governments and the region stand four square against this coup. but it is also true that zelaya did not handle his role as president properly. he took a leaf after president chavez's book and president will rebate's book -- president uribe's group -- book. he is not paying that price. host: jonathan from maryland'. good morning. caller: i'm wondering how many of the individuals responsible for the coup was trained in this school of the americans and whether that has impact on the upcoming legislation to close the school? host: ambassador? guest: a lot of the top officials of the honduran military has been trained at the

school of the americas, which has been renamed, but is still the same place. in my view, there is no real reason for the existence of the school of the americas. it's militarizes our relations with central america. what we need in central america is demilitarization. i did not mean necessarily the abolition of the military in places where it exists, but at least taking away any role they have the with internal policy and reducing their numbers. what we need now, as i mentioned before, it is some kind of institute presumably under the oas and with the united states support to train people in public administration from economic, and social development. this is what central america

needs, not more militarization. host: this photograph from the associated press and siad "the washington post" as the riot police scatter -- it is not blood, but spray-painted stopped the protesters outside the presidential palace in the capital city of honduras. john is on the phone from frederick, maryland. caller: i wondering if the guest might explain what happened in honduras and how the president actually broke the constitution. and then the congress of honduras and the supreme court said he was gone. and what i would think we need from central america is pro- american governments, which honduras was leading us not down that route. i just don't know really why colombia and the rest of central america is brought in -- on c- span. i don't know why you guys keep using twitter -- 90% anti-

american calls. it is not a good, fair source for c-span. e-mail is a lot better. but twitter, think about it, it is all democrats. host: thank you for the comment, one of many voices including e- mail and your phone call on the republican line but we appreciate your observation differed on the earlier point, ambassador -- i appreciate your observation. on your earlier point? guest: we need more democratic governments and central america but the way to get them is not to follow policies that damaged civilian government. here i think particularly of our emphasis on developing the military and our policy of drug interdiction. and i think what we need to do -- i am not advocating anything

radical here. what i would like to do is to start to listen to the central americans. they are paying a very high price for not -- for our inability to curb our drug habit. port-of-spain, trinidad, at the summit of the americas, president obama dedicated this country to the role of equal partner. the first thing partners do is listen to one another. i would suggest that perhaps under the aegis of the oas, we start listening to the non- governmental leaders of central america, how they see the problem and how we need to attract -- adjust our policies in order to develop democracy and pro-american governments. host: this map courtesy of "the washington times." hi doris borders l. salvador, guatemala, and nicaragua, and south of nicaragua is costa

rica -- honduras border as well salvador. guest: they are roughly the same -- the smallest country is el salvador, the size of massachusetts. you could put all of el salvador in one province of honduras. honduras is a large country and relatively -- not over populated. so there is absolutely no reason why honduras' wouldn't be an economically viable country. host: pomelo from florida. good morning. -- pablo. caller: good morning. i need to take you to task concerning or rebate -- rebate. you know the situation he

inherited was utter chaos. has he made mistakes? certainly. but i just don't think it is fair to lump uribe basically along with chavez. uribe eventually it will leave power but chavez, ortega, and this guy in honduras and others, they are not going to leave. they are going to try to change the constitution. basically they want to be jr. feel castro -- jr. fidel castro s. guest: the caller has the ability to see in the future, which i did not possess, but it is certainly true alvaro uribe -- and i gave some credit for bringing order out of chaos, but he has amended the constitution in order to perpetuate himself and power. and that democracy cannot depend on one person.

the whole point of democracy is orderly transfer of power at the will of the people. and this is what -- and this is why it is wrong to amend the constitution just for the benefit of one offical. host: this comment from a viewer -- you will never stop the drug war. guest: you will certainly never stop the drug war unless you take tough steps to reduce demand. porter spain trinidad, at the summit of the americas -- port- of-spain, trinidad, president obama promised to take steps in that direction. he showed us a grasp of the complexity of the problem. but all i am asking here is that the american people understand that the people of central america and the people

of colombia are paying a very heavy price because we refuse to reduce our demands for drugs. and this is tearing apart countries like mexico and what ramallah and other countries. host: california is next. good morning, diane. caller: good morning. long time no talking. glad to talk to you. and the morning to ambassador white. i tell you, i have to get my own red zone -- i was put on hold and then i guess my cell phone dropped. host: i am glad you made it through. go-ahead with one of your questions or comments. one of our lawyer viewers. caller: i am a supporter of hillary clinton and i am a longtime democrat and voted for bill clinton and voted for him

and i am part of his library in little rock, arkansas. i heard everything that ambassador white has said. so, basically it is just a bunch of words -- not sang ambassador white is only reverberating, i am saying the white house is. if we believe -- that was quote from the president -- we believe, in other words they once zelaya back into power, well, what are you going to do about it, president obama? the point is, we don't need another engagement. i think we ought to take care of iran, china, and russia. yes, we need to look at it, but i support hillary clinton's position and i think she can handle it. let her candle lit. she is the secretary of state and i believe -- let her handle it. it. she is secretary of state, and i