i do think that both sides are accusing the other side of being hypocritical, but on the other hand. host: our guest is dahlia lithwick. the supreme court breakfast table is available on-line at this slate.com. thank you for joining us. you will be on npr. we have time for one more comment. this is from a viewer. how can a test be a bias toward a race? thank you to our viewers. and baltimore, our last caller. caller: the problem i have with this decision is four years, people have been trying to be firsversed in affirmative actio.

we want to take you to the pentagon. army general odierno is speaking with reporters. . >> thank you, and good morning. i want to make a quick statement here and then i will get on to your questions. today is a very important day as we continue to move towards our objective of a sovereign, secure and self-reliant iraq. june 30, 2009 also marks a significant milestone for iraq,

as the iraqi security forces assume responsibility for security within the cities across the country. it is a day when i iraqis celebrate as they continue to move towards exercising their full sovereignty. in accordance with the security agreement, u.s. combat forces have completed the withdrawal of a i iraqi cities. a small number of forces will remain in cities to coordinate with iraqi security forces as well as enable them to move forward. we will also support civil capacity efforts led by the u.s. embassy, not the government of iraq and the united states mission assistance in iraq. u.s. forces will continue to conduct security operations throughout iraqi security force partners. our combined efforts will established a layer of defense as iraqis secure the city's.

they will secure the borders in an attempt to eliminate safe havens and sanctuaries, and eliminate freedom of movement of insurgents and prevent the facilitation of foreign fighters. the u.s. is committed to full transparent indeed committed implementation of the security freeman -- implementation of the security agreement. the iraqi people should be proud of the dedication and sacrifice of the iraqi security forces and government of iraq. their accomplishments in preparing for this day are commendable. the american people can also be very proud of the soldiers, sailors, marines and civilians who have worked so hard over the past years and sacrificed so much in helping the people of iraq progress towards a peaceful

and democratic society. with that, i would be happy to take your questions. >> we will start with andrew. >> you talked about a small number of u.s. forces remaining in the city's to train and advise. how many u.s. forces will remain? >> people have been trying to get me to say figure for about a month. the reason i won't do it is because it will be different every single day. it will be based on how much training and uprising and coordination is required. -- how much training and advising will be required. it has very specific missions, train the iraqi security forces, advise them, enable them and

coordinate and help us continue our situational awareness of all situations within iraq. that will help us to better support iraqi security forces. >> just to follow up briefly, i am disappointed you did not give us the scoop of the month of holding out. i am wondering if you could give us a ballpark number. are we talking about several thousand it? -- are we talking about several thousand? >> there are hundreds of cities around. i have let the local commanders work this out, some for me to give a number would be inaccurate. there will be trainers help in throughout all of the iraqi cities where we continue to support and advise forces. >> whatever the number is, how

are you going to convince them, the u.s. forces remaining, not to jump in and be helpful where perhaps you would prefer that the iraq these take the lead? what will be different about what they are told to do in a situation where they might think their first instinct is we could do that better? >> again, i called this -- we are working on changing our minds said. i equate it to when we first started the surge when we had to change our mind sets, partnering with the iraqi security forces. today, it is the same kind of thing. when we are in the cities there are very specific things we will do. we have been out of the city's for the last eight months, so eight is only the last remnants in baghdad that have pulled out

over the last few weeks. we have been implementing this in many parts of baghdad for a long time. they understand what their mission is. they understand what we expect them to do. we have worked very closely with all the leaders in iraq. i have worked closely with the minister of defense, the operation commanders in order to work this out in. i feel very comfortable with where we are at. >> you were reluctant to talk about how many mentors are in this city. is this just a show or not? is this just semantics? there are u.s. soldiers with guns in the cities. you can call the mentors, but how different is it than what we saw three weeks ago? if you have soldiers just outside the city's, what is this? is this a show for the american

people? >> i would say you probably did not listen to what i just said, because i said having battalions inside a city is different than having advisers and teens. i said we will be operating in the built around baghdad. i have been very clear about that. -- we will be operating around belts around baghdad. we had to get people in the cities and eliminate sanctuaries in the belts around baghdad. it is the same thing except the iraqis would take responsibility for the security in the cities. we will work to get to sentience around the city. it is -- we will work to get safe havens cleared around the city. if you are here in baghdad you would know there is a significant change inside of the

cities. there are thousands of soldiers that have pulled out of baghdad. there has not been any soldiers in the cities in southern iraq. there has that been any soldiers in the cities of fallujah for months now. we have been executing this very well. again, here in iraq you would see it for yourself, there is a significant change. >> if you are going to be transparent mike can you tell us how many trainers are in the cities? -- if you're going to be transparent why can you not tell us how many trainers are in the cities? >> it varies day to day. >> you must have a ball park. >> how many times do you want me to say that? i don't know. what i am telling you is it is training teams that remain in baghdad. it will be different every single day. we have worked closely locally with the commanders to figure this out.

that is why i don't want to say a number because it will be inaccurate. if i say a number today it will be different tomorrow. what i am telling you is is significantly lower than it has been so far. >> ok, general. on a different topic, right now there are 131,000 troops in iraq. next august it will be between 50,000 and 35,000 troops. al is this going to work, a time line of going from these troop numbers? >> first, what i would say is we have constantly been drawing down. nine months ago we were at 165,000. we have withdrawn about 35,000

soldiers. we will continue to do that through the end of the year, although it will be not as many. we will slowly draw down towards the end of the year. i have been given flexibility by my chain of command to make decisions based on the situation on the ground, because we want to make sure we have enough forces on the ground to ensure good elections in january. we will see a bit of a drawdown between them and then. i have decision points i have established that will make some decisions for the end of the year. then i will make further decisions after the election, but i expect you will see a drawdown of soldiers between march and april of next year. >> when you say significant, i hate to say this, can you quantify that at all? >> we will get down to 50,000 people by the end of september.

you just said it when you ask your question. we will go down to some number around 115,000 to 50,000. >> when? from land to land? from january to september? -- from when to when? >> i have several decision points. we have 131,000 on the ground. there will be some less than that between now and december. it will probably be around 120,000 by december, but that could change because i have flexibility based on how things go on the ground. then what i expect is between after the elections are over, we will reduce our presence further, probably going somewhere between 150,000 down to 50 pheasant. -- down to 50,000.

>> can you give us your latest assessment of iranian influence in iraq? and also specifically, have you seen any change in the tempo since the election in iran and the street protests? >> thank you. we continue to still see training going on inside of iran. we still believe weapons are moving from iran into iraq. we have not seen any adjustments made since the problem with the elections in iran. they have maintained themselves in a steady state as we move forward. >> is it your sense that the iranians are positioning themselves for further action, because we have not seen the dramatic instances of the influence we saw previously. what is the iranian game plan to a inside iraq?

-- what is the game plan today inside of iraq? >> we have seen a slowdown in support. i would like to say that would be due to the pressure we put on the security forces. we have made it much more difficult. we have uncovered several large weapons. we have also been able to reconcile with some of the groups that were initially supporting. we have also been able to go after some of their surrogates here, so that probably contributed a little bit. but i also believe they realize the beginning in february or march of this year that some of your -- some of their strategy was failing. the candidates i think they work attempting for support did that do well in the elections. following that, they have done a review of their strategy, however much they are still providing some weapons. but they may also be trying to

do more soft influence in iraq as well. >> what kind of concerns do you have regarding the situation in the north regarding the al qaeda presence, regarding the disputed areas between the central government in baghdad and pakistan banks -- and pakistan? >> one of the problems we looked at closely are the arab-kurt tensions -- the arab-kurd tensions. they have had several meetings between the kurdish regional government and the government of iraq to try to work through some of these disputed territories. this is being led by the united nations here. we think that has some potential. in the meantime, what we are trying to do is to make sure

they have solved their problems through negotiations and not through the use of violence. we stay in contact with all parties to ensure that the tensions don't rise. we spent quite a bit of time on that. i would tell you i still believe al qaeda has been significantly degraded in iraq, but as we have seen over the past few weeks there is still capable of some attacks. one attack is an area where there has not been any attacks in several years. they went after some very soft places inside of iraq. i believe that will backfire on them over time, because the iraqi citizens -- al qaeda continues to kill innocent people for no apparent reason except to attempt to incite more violence. what has been positive about

this is the iraqi people have not moved to any type of retaliation. we have not seen any movement towards sectarian strife between any groups based on these attacks. government leaders have come out and made clear statements condemning these attacks, blaming al qaeda, blaming these extremist elements. frankly, their support will continue to wane. we continue to work hard working with the iraqi security forces to go after al qaeda, who is still attempting to reestablish themselves in a bigger way. we are working with them. part of that is outside and desert and other places. we are also working hard to shut down the borders and make it difficult for foreign fighters to flow in from syria. then has been reduced significantly. we continue to work hard to

ensure that continues to be difficult for them to execute. >> talking about the tensions between the central government in baghdad and kurdistan, how do you see the future? >> again, it is a regional force. it is a force that right now is responsible for security internal to me krg. there are discussions that there will be two divisions formed as part of the iraqi army. that is part of the nosh nations that are ongoing -- that is part of the negotiations that are ongoing. that will be part of the discussions that the krg has with the government of iraq. >> [inaudible] >> i have a couple of questions. what metrics of the american public use in july, august and

september are used to determine whether the withdrawal was a prudent move? then i have a second question. >> i would say a couple things. the metrics i look at, it is looking at overall stability inside of iraq. that is a combination of the number of incidents that occur, a combination of high-profile attacks that occur, a combination of political progress. it is the ability of the iraqi security forces to take on responsibilities. it is all of this things that we will look at to do our assessments. i will tell you that incidents in may, that they were the lowest number of incidents on record. -- they were the lowest number of incidents on record. the problem with june is over the last 10 days we have had a couple of high-profile attacks,

but if you compare it back to the dark days of 2006 and 2007 there is no comparison. there is not widespread violence in iraq. there are points of high-profile attacks. it has inflicted high casualties on the civilian population, so we have more hard work to do to make it much more difficult and protect the people of iraq. >> [inaudible] >> on the most recent violence, forgive me if you were misquoted, but their reports saying that you attributed some of the most recent violence in iraq to iran in influence. if that is the case, what specific evidence is there that iran had a hand in the most recent violence? >> what i said was that the event in taza was aqi.

there has been an increase in indirect fire and projectiles in baghdad over the last few weeks, which are two signature elements of groups that have been trained in iran and have been given money to perform these attacks from iran. that was the basis of my comment. what i said is there are some indications that one attack may have been an accident where some surrogate insurgent groups were trying to move ammunition around inside of solder city -- inside of sadr city. >> secretary gates has made clear that it is the war in

afghanistan that is the priority. what are your specific concerns about the potential for troops understandably getting a little demoralized over the next 18 months, feeling that day in iraq are now fighting the forgotten war? that this is the new forgot more -- this is the new forgotten war? >> i look at this as a positive thing because i believe is because of the progress we have made in iraq. because of the progress we were able to make, we signed a bilateral security agreement with the government of iraq. the first death of that was today which was the withdrawal from the city's. as present obama came on and we then conducted another review -- as president obama came on,

little and -- we will go to a 50,000 man transition force. i believe this decisions were made because of the progress we're making here. i think our soldiers look at it as progress that has been made here. and the fact that incidents are down. we are seeing iraqis take more control. they are doing more each day, so we see it as a positive development, not one of a forgotten war but one of success we have had over the past couple of years. hopefully, we will continue that success as we transition to the government of iraq. that is the challenge we have between now and the end of 2011, that we continue this success as we transition over the government of iraq.

>> there is a school of that region school of thought that the war is far from over in the u.s. military engagement will be necessary for beyond 2011. we are a long way from political instability in baghdad. i seem to recall earlier it that you were quoted incorrectly to similar effect. i am wondering what your prognosis is going forward in terms of the ability of the country to become more stable? >> as i just said, i believe the country is moving in the right direction. i think the upcoming elections in january are very important. that government that is formed will form the next four years, which will be very formative times in iraq. those years will define where iraq is headed over the next

four years. that will define clearly is stability going to continue to move forward? i think that will be an important milestone as the iraqi people choose their next government, as that government gets seated, if we continue with the progress we are making i believe the conditions are set for iraq to continue to move forward, and potentially reach a secure, sovereign iraq by the end of 2011. the statement of time is out of context because there are two issues, one about internal security and external capabilities to defend its neighbor against any foreign influence in iraq. i am very confident the iraqis are on their way to being to -- to being able to defend themselves by 2011.

what might take longer is the development of their navy and air force. that does not mean we have to help them, there are other nations that could help them, but that will be a decision made further on down the road depended on how far they get. my comments were taken out of context because when i said a later date they were based on these specific capabilities. >> as u.s. troops consolidate on bases, but do you worry that their movements become more predictable? they become easier to target with things like ied's? had you guard against that? -- how do you guard against that? >> we have many outposts around the city that we established as we conducted the search.

we have not all come back into a small number of big bases. we will still occupy hundreds of small outposts around iraq. they will not the inside of the cities. that will help us to be able to move around. as we have to resupply and move into the city's to conduct court nation, -- to conduct court nation, we will do all the things we do now -- to conduct coordination. we have been doing this now for some time, so i feel comfortable we will be able to do it. obviously it is not the same as being in the city. yes, there is concern about that, but i believe we have mitigated the majority of their risks. >> it looks like we can go to ground two. >> what are the missions of the

u.s. military over the past six years has been to bring down these sectarian rivalries that existed there in iraq. hell convinced argue that the security forces -- how convinced are you that the security forces had advanced to a discipline level where those old rivalries that had dominated the way security forces had performed for decades, have convinced are you that those will not rise up again and create the retribution we had seen that security forces needed in iraq previously? >> that is a great question. i would just tell them that we have seen the confidence of the iraqi security forces has grown since the dark days of 2006. what we have seen is we have seen the iraqi army grow

professionally. we have seen them conduct operations across the country in a non-sectarian way. the biggest improvement of any force here has been in the national police. they have gone through a lot of training. they are seen as a legitimate credible force that conducts non-sectarian operations around iraq. the local police as the one we worry about the most. that is why we have not turned over security to the local police. they are the ones who might be influenced politically, although they have made great progress as well. i believe what i have seen is the professionalism of the national police, the professionalism of the iraqi army is better than it was 2.5 years ago.