obama administration, we would take a new look and start listening to the central americans on issues such as the role of the military, and particularly, the idea that the u.s. military, the cia, and the drug enforcement administration have formed a policy there that is destructive of the civilian order. host: ambassador white is a graduate of the tufts university school of law and diplomacy and former senior associate of carnegie endowment for peace. his current title is president of the center for international policy. tyrone is on the phone from memphis. caller: how are you doing? we are spending too much money

on foreign stuff, all these wars and stuff. we've got a lot of problems over here. we need to bring all of the troops back and give these people jobs over here. a lot of folks here in the united states -- we need to get the jobs that instead of concentrating on other folks issues. host: thank you for the comment. let me go back to something we saw earlier -- senior administration officials say they want to "talk our way through this" with key players in honduras. who is talking to whom? guest: well, at this point, i think that the head of the oas is doing a lot of the negotiating, and that is proper.

there is a sense that democracy is the official governing doctrine of the americans, and any coup requires a meeting of foreign ministers of the organization of american states. but you can be certain that the american ambassador is also negotiating here. and we must negotiate the return of zelaya. that is the crucial point. he is the elected president of honduras, and he must be restored. it is going to be difficult because you have to make -- the head of the congress there has made a terrible error of having himself sworn in as president. so, it is going to be difficult for him to back down and difficult for the supreme court to back down. but this must be accomplished. i think the only way it can be

accomplished is for presidents zelaya to give up any ambitions of the constitutional amendments to allow him to run for a second term. that has got to be the deal. host: let me ask you in the "show me the money" department. president obama vowed to give hundreds by next year close to $7 million in aid and also honduras is a recipient of a millennium grant in excess of $200 million. will that money stopped if this continues? guest: yes, yes. there will be no money from the united states -- host: it is that a bargaining tool? guest: certainly is. a very good point. this coup government will leave. there is no way it can stand up to the entire hemisphere. even one of the more conservative governments and

the region stand four square against this coup. but it is also true that zelaya did not handle his role as president properly. he took a leaf after president chavez's book and president will rebate's book -- president uribe's group -- book. he is not paying that price. host: jonathan from maryland'. good morning. caller: i'm wondering how many of the individuals responsible for the coup was trained in this school of the americans and whether that has impact on the upcoming legislation to close the school? host: ambassador? guest: a lot of the top officials of the honduran military has been trained at the

school of the americas, which has been renamed, but is still the same place. in my view, there is no real reason for the existence of the school of the americas. it's militarizes our relations with central america. what we need in central america is demilitarization. i did not mean necessarily the abolition of the military in places where it exists, but at least taking away any role they have the with internal policy and reducing their numbers. what we need now, as i mentioned before, it is some kind of institute presumably under the oas and with the united states support to train people in public administration from economic, and social development. this is what central america needs, not more militarization.

host: this photograph from the associated press and siad "the washington post" as the riot police scatter -- it is not blood, but spray-painted stopped the protesters outside the presidential palace in the capital city of honduras. john is on the phone from frederick, maryland. caller: i wondering if the guest might explain what happened in honduras and how the president actually broke the constitution. and then the congress of honduras and the supreme court said he was gone. and what i would think we need from central america is pro- american governments, which honduras was leading us not down that route. i just don't know really why colombia and the rest of central america is brought in -- on c- span. i don't know why you guys keep using twitter -- 90% anti-

american calls. it is not a good, fair source for c-span. e-mail is a lot better. but twitter, think about it, it is all democrats. host: thank you for the comment, one of many voices including e- mail and your phone call on the republican line but we appreciate your observation differed on the earlier point, ambassador -- i appreciate your observation. on your earlier point? guest: we need more democratic governments and central america but the way to get them is not to follow policies that damaged civilian government. here i think particularly of our emphasis on developing the military and our policy of drug interdiction. and i think what we need to do -- i am not advocating anything

radical here. what i would like to do is to start to listen to the central americans. they are paying a very high price for not -- for our inability to curb our drug habit. port-of-spain, trinidad, at the summit of the americas, president obama dedicated this country to the role of equal partner. the first thing partners do is listen to one another. i would suggest that perhaps under the aegis of the oas, we start listening to the non- governmental leaders of central america, how they see the problem and how we need to attract -- adjust our policies in order to develop democracy and pro-american governments. host: this map courtesy of "the washington times." hi doris borders l. salvador, guatemala, and nicaragua, and south of nicaragua is costa rica -- honduras border as well

salvador. guest: they are roughly the same -- the smallest country is el salvador, the size of massachusetts. you could put all of el salvador in one province of honduras. honduras is a large country and relatively -- not over populated. so there is absolutely no reason why honduras' wouldn't be an economically viable country. host: pomelo from florida. good morning. -- pablo. caller: good morning. i need to take you to task concerning or rebate -- rebate. you know the situation he inherited was utter chaos.

has he made mistakes? certainly. but i just don't think it is fair to lump uribe basically along with chavez. uribe eventually it will leave power but chavez, ortega, and this guy in honduras and others, they are not going to leave. they are going to try to change the constitution. basically they want to be jr. feel castro -- jr. fidel castro s. guest: the caller has the ability to see in the future, which i did not possess, but it is certainly true alvaro uribe -- and i gave some credit for bringing order out of chaos, but he has amended the constitution in order to perpetuate himself and power. and that democracy cannot depend on one person. the whole point of democracy is

orderly transfer of power at the will of the people. and this is what -- and this is why it is wrong to amend the constitution just for the benefit of one offical. host: this comment from a viewer -- you will never stop the drug war. guest: you will certainly never stop the drug war unless you take tough steps to reduce demand. porter spain trinidad, at the summit of the americas -- port- of-spain, trinidad, president obama promised to take steps in that direction. he showed us a grasp of the complexity of the problem. but all i am asking here is that the american people understand that the people of central america and the people of colombia are paying a very

heavy price because we refuse to reduce our demands for drugs. and this is tearing apart countries like mexico and what ramallah and other countries. host: california is next. good morning, diane. caller: good morning. long time no talking. glad to talk to you. and the morning to ambassador white. i tell you, i have to get my own red zone -- i was put on hold and then i guess my cell phone dropped. host: i am glad you made it through. go-ahead with one of your questions or comments. one of our lawyer viewers. caller: i am a supporter of hillary clinton and i am a longtime democrat and voted for bill clinton and voted for him

and i am part of his library in little rock, arkansas. i heard everything that ambassador white has said. so, basically it is just a bunch of words -- not sang ambassador white is only reverberating, i am saying the white house is. if we believe -- that was quote from the president -- we believe, in other words they once zelaya back into power, well, what are you going to do about it, president obama? the point is, we don't need another engagement. i think we ought to take care of iran, china, and russia. yes, we need to look at it, but i support hillary clinton's position and i think she can handle it. let her candle lit. she is the secretary of state and i believe -- let her handle it. she is secretary of state, and i believe we have great sibilant

the state department. my step father was going -- but he stayed here in california in camp pendleton. what is your degree anyway, i was curious? guest: well, i have one of those useless master's degrees in foreign policy. but i think the point i want to take away from the caller is -- color is this. you cannot neglect one part of the world in order to cope with another. the united states is a world power and has to cope and treat world problems. the way crises become crises is by neglect and by not focusing the due amount of attention on each region of the world. .

guest: they are doing an excellent job. and i predict that they will play a very important role in support of the oas in the return. >> an update on this story we're covering from the associated press. republican norm coleman conceded to alfred can -- to al franken today. he announced his decision. al franken is expected to make a statement shortly in about a half hour. we will have that life for you

here on c-span. -- have that live for you here on c-span. at 8:00, general ray odierno breech reporters on the latest military operations in iraq, including the withdrawal of u.s. troops and iraq -- from baghdad. we will have that press conference for you here on c- span at 8:00 eastern time. then, book tv. harry stein and his book "@ six and other liabilities." -- fought"ethics and other liabilities.

quote we're live from mount vernon estate with historian and author john ferling. join our three-hour conversation, sunday. it is part of our 3 day holiday weekend on book tv. >> how c-span funded? >> publicly funded. >> donations, maybe. i have no idea. >> the government? >> seize ban gets its funding through the taxes. >> public funding? >> may be. i do not know. >> 30 years ago, america's cable companies created c-span. no government mandate, no government money. >> today is the deadline for most u.s. troops to begin withdrawing from cities in iraq. we will watch as much as we can

of this morning's washington journal. we will have live coverage of al franken after. you have written a report that " general david petraeus that asks how this will end. are we at the point? guest: we are not. i would like to think, listening jane who says that conditions are better now -- i would like to think that we have seen real progress and are moving toward a condition where we can have a normal relationship with iraq and where the iraqi people can have an increasingly normal life. host: much concern expressed by the former was president. are they valid? guest: i think they are del. the security situation in iraq is far improved, but still tenuous. where handing more responsibility over to the iraqi

security forces enough we have tried to do that before. i think they are more ready this time than last. we're keeping a substantial presence there now and for years to come to buttress them. the situation on the ground i think has changed permanently. but it does not mean that there will not still be car bombs. that is why i wrote this people to encourage the west remain engaged in understand that this progress still relies greatly on american support. host: are there lessons we can apply to afghanistan? guest: the situation is very different, but the counter- insurgency principals continue to apply. one of the lessons we learned it in iraq is that you have to protect the population first. in iraq will try to do that with iraqi security forces before they were ready. increasingly at think they can now protect the population as

america slides back. we have not done as good a job building afghan security forces. they are far too small. we have to devote more resources toward that and the long haul. in the short term it will have to be american forces providing security to the afghan people. host: you can appreciate this comment from maryland. guest: there is a lot of truth to that. the purpose of the u.s. army is not just to win our nation's wars. once we have won them, it is to remain forever that was to prevent those conditions from starting again. we're not yet withdrawn from iraq, but pulling out of the

cities, letting iraqis take the lead. there will continue to be soldiers in iraq to release 2011. there might be some presence even after that withdrawal deadline. host: the iraqi interior minister has a comment in his editorial in "the washington post suzy which says the mission is not yet accomplish. -- this says the mission is not yet accomplished. will that come into play? guest: huge steps have already been taken. there has been enormous progress. his absolute right that it is currently a balanced on a knife

edge. the forces of economic development are incredibly and put them. much pressure to maintain those conditions for economic development, increased oil development that is good for the entire world that runs on oil. but they're still forces of the ascension and sowing discord. al qaeda still poses great threats. this is a careful balance we will have to watch. host: he also points out corruption. 60,000 interior employees had been fired on corruption charges. another 40 police officers are facing charges of prison abuse. guest: the culture there in iraq is prone to corruption. quite frankly, i hate to make

that generalization. but i used an arab word for bribe most often while i was there. the positive sign is that the interior ministry is increasingly taking action. the corruption is down. but we will have to watch it over the next couple of years. as america's presence diminishes we cannot keep us close and i when that as we have been able to. it is a good sign that the interior minister wrote that article, second, that he is finally taking steps to reduce corruption, but it is a long- term problem. host: our guest is a graduate of west point, former rhodes scholar and retired military.

our phone lines are open. you can also send an e-mail or twitter. louisiana, good morning. caller: congratulations on graduating from west point, too bad you did not learn anything. [laughter] caller: go ahead and left. you think is funny we murdered 1 million people over there? we have to remain there you say to be sure it is never a threat to the u.s. again. i would challenge you to tell us how they were a threat to begin with being that they never found these weapons of mass destruction. these recent letters have been covered from saddam hussein saying that he wanted to have an alliance with us against terrorism, so you are disingenuous sir, you are a liar. we are over there for a reason other than for the profits of this imperialistic country. you are soldier for imperialism,

that is who you are. being that you are such a learned graduate, you to look a butler and what he had to say about our imperious worse. war is nothing but a record. you are nothing but an agent for death. host: i will stop you there. guest: steve, if i can, there have been about 150,000 casualties there, not 1.5 million. those are horrible. i saw a number myself. i fought two wars in iraq. i don't think have served for imperialism, but to increase security for the united states. in my first war certainly for the people of kuwait when i helped to expel the army of saddam hussein. he remained a threat to world peace and security throughout the region. his weapons of mass destruction

program it now appears that he had terminated. not long after desert storm we did not know that. whatever the merits of the decision to go to war in iraq in 2003, the fact remains that we now have a responsibility to try to help iraq be as secure as it can be, not to disintegrate. not to present a threat again. and also not to provide a base for al qaeda in iraq. i fought against al qaeda, which is dedicated to starting a broader war. so, whatever the merits of the decision to invade iraq in 2003 -- and rational people can disagree on that, i think it is hard to make any argument except that an american commitment to

maintaining and preserving the stability we bought at such great cost of the past several years is in the interest of the 19 states and of the world. host: the me ask you specifically about this area you know well. it is sunni triangle. what is it like there today? guest: it is very different from what it was when i fought there. in august last year -- a host: where is it on a thismap? guest: it is in the south of iraq. it used to be calm -- it was the triangle of death, now increasingly called the triangle of love. violences down, four down from what it was. it is still for american advisers to help the security forces develop and continue to

build the fragile stability still growing there. host: new castle, delaware, good morning. caller: good morning, i guess part of the reason to go there it was to pick up the monolithic of the modern arab, muslim nation, or something like that and create independent entities over there that could be dealt with better and are better able to create democratic governments in the region. do you think the new administration will continue the goal? as opposed to promoting the modern arab man who goes beyond international boundaries? do you think this has given the people who drive for democracy there hope that someday their country might be part of the franchise of freedom? guest: it is a great question.

i do not think the stated causes for the invasion of iraq in march 2003 had much to do with this idea of broader arab identity. the probable causes were the aftermath of 9/11, war against al qaeda, and the belief that saddam hussein had a wmd's. that said, the results, despite the carnage, the loss of a number of my friends, and a large number of iraqi civilians has resulted in a fledgling democratic government. one where the people have some choice. i believe that democracy in iraq has