about the same. we are a lot older than bill. the depression, for those who cannot remember, was a sobering experience. we were dirt-poor. i did not have the money to go to college, volunteered to enlist -- you could not enlist, you were drafted into the army. but in the meantime, through a quirk, i got appointed to west point and one of the guys ahead of me to quit. i just feel very lucky. we did not help reduce we did not have health insurance. my dad did not have a job half the time. i had to hitchhike to west point. it was a different world, and expectations of people today are a helluva lot more than ours work. growing up in arizona, i never really felt ports, because everyone else was in the same boat. . i do not have any depression experience. i don't have that depression and memory.

or maybe i am so old that i can remember. my dad was in the navy in china when the japanese war broke out. my mom and by had a hard time escaping. -- my mom and i had a hard time escaping. escaping. that sort of boring day military career for me, following my dad in the naval academy in jumping ship in going to the air force. chasing russians around over the arctic ocean. to me, everything was just like everybody else, things just fell one step after another and i was really surprised i got selected for the program. but i was all for it. >> ok. there are some lights on. i see some folks over at the microphone here. you have some questions for frank and jim and bill? >> i would like to start with a provocative question. after frank brought up his throwing up. was there and odor problem?

or did that dissipate? >> i swore i would not help. -- would not tell. there was definitely an odor problem and because of the fact they put in some oxygen masks. even though is absolutely verboten, we were going to take an oxygen mask and slapped on. -- slapped it on. -- slap it on. >> that was so you did not throw>> over here. comparing the g forces to anything? >> is anything that compares experience to deforest? -- experience the>> go down to the deep in the -- experience lee 0-- g forces. >> go down to the deep, base

and maple being hit by the letter in low gear air out and float right there and get in an >> i mean the high g forces. >> i don't know that there is any thing. there is something that you sleep around. >> after being the first humans to see the moon at a close range, did your thoughts change in any way? >> did your thoughts change in any way about seeing the moon so close? >> my thoughts have not changed. a lot of times, people will tell may -- some ask if we were closer to god and i always say for myself know because god is down here on earth as he is out there around the moon. -- for myself, no. my philosophy has not changed. my thoughts have not changed from my space walk. >> i feel the same way. >> i was a little bit influenced by arthur c. clarke.

"2001," where you had sharp corners on the move. let me tell you. it is sandblasted. [laughter] >> i get a sense that in some ways that apollo 8 was the shift because my generation and many others, we were 5 years old and going to the moon is done, the moon used to be the unattainable. how is your sense on the inside? -- how was your sense? is there any sense of things changing on the outlook of the world stage? was the focus on the landing completely? >> i was thinking it was like columbus.

he decided not land on hispaniola. -- we just did not land on his spaniel of -- his spaniel of -- hispaniola. >> apollo 8 was the change. we had only done earth orbitwe went to a place that no one had ever been before. we saw the far side of the moon which you never seen at birth. -- a scene from the earth. this was a pioneering flights for apolo 8. >> my thoughts were that we beat the russians. [laughter] that was mission accomplished. the apollo took the steam out of their program. that is why i was at nasa. that is what we did. i am not as political as bill. flag in the moon, the apollo program was over.

we beat the russians. >> that was a difference of opinion. i am a navy guy. two air force here. we started to look at the scientific approach and that is what we sold the program on, even though it was a race between the soviet union and ourselves. i concur that was the primary reason. even president kennedy made that announcement. by the time 13 came along, the scientific committee came out of the woodwork. they said, "ok. we have been to the moon. we accomplished our objective. now, let's get some return on our objective. let's start looking from 12 on to do the scientific work and that is where the change was made that we were to do it as a scientific program. >> i'm skeptical about the science. you hear people talk about

science. science this, science that. on the space program, i don't know if they know what they are going to do. if they does want to see kids floating upside down, is that science? -- they have kids is sending up minnows floating upside down. is that science? i don't know what they are [laughter] >> i can see your father whispering in kennedy's year. -- kennedy's your -- ear. [laughter] >> you are going to have to be pretty practical about it. you go to mars for the ink was the nature of human beings, i don't think it is for science. stop trying to the justify it because you have people floating upside down. -- because you have fish floating upside down. >> over here at this microphone. >> i'm 43 years old. the apollo program left a mark on me in my childhood.

i remember seeing those shots on tv. you guys for the super heroes to me. it sounds kind of quaint, but it was true. a question is, the material, gadgets and tools that you took with the, like you had that tape, duct tape, for apollo 13 to help put the filters in was this just issued duct taped? [laughter] what else did you have? did you have a ranch, just in case? -- a ranch -- wrench? i am real curious about this. explain that for me. that would be great. thank you. tape? [laughter] we had it on 13 fortunately.

>> we did not have it on 8. >> the tools were -- we found out what we needed to have to operate in space. maybe we did not have been on eight. we had scissors. we had various other tools we would use. in our reading situations and things like that. >> i wanted to bring a screwdriver and a wrench and they would not let me do it because they thought i would start taking something apart. [laughter] >> over here. >> thank you very much for being here. when i found that you were here this was like christmas morning for me. a little kid, coming home, and i got to see the apollo 8 astronauts. i am a school teacher and i brought some of my students here. we are going back to the moon and the students are going to be walking on the mood in that is because of you gentlemen.

-- walking on the moon and years from now, and that is because of you gentlemen. i want to say thank you. several years john glenn got to go back. and go back in outer space. i am wondering if any of the three of you would go back up there yourselves. before we retire the shovel. -- the shuttle. >> when he was sent up at zero -- i wrote a letter saying i was ready to go and he wrote back and said i was too young. [laughter] >> the time has changed. bill. >> jim? >> at my age i think i would be very hesitant to accept a position to go back in space when there are so many more young and talented people that would do a better job. you have to remember that putting somebody into earth orbit to the station or on a shuttle is a very expensive proposition and you want to get the most out of them.

to put me back up into space, and i don't have $30 million to go up there, so i think i would decline. >> i would do it. if i did. >> i think that glenn's flight in the shuttle was purely political. i don't think you should have people on the crow unless there is a mission. -- on a crew unless you have a mission. >> thank you, gentlemen. >> there is frank. always beating around the bush. [laughter] >> i cannot remember the first administrator. we have not been able to send a journalist into space. we have not been able to do that yet either. >> i have some candidates. [laughter] >> i remember talking to walter cronkite about this. he said that after nasa gets

its plumbing fixed, mine is not going to work and i am starting to get that way myself. i think we should have a journalist up their one of these days. and maybe a poet and so on. expensive. the people have paid for this and they would love to know what is going on. oftentimes they have been excluded. for example, in hearing things that for the first time. -- are in hearing things tonight for the first time. -- i am hearing things. i think that is good. you cannot tell everything that happens every minute the something as complicated and dangerous as space flight is. i think there ought to be ways that the american taxpayers should get a close look at it is sending an american journalist is one. anyway, that is my view, too. >> i think you're wrong, but that is okay.

[laughter] i do not know a damn thing that has not been put out. >> i believe is the most open program ever. >> i agree with you. >> they let it all hang out. even their failures. >> it is a dangerous business. i think the mistake that nasa made was to fly at a school teacher and that coincided with a tragedy. >> that is correct. >> going that the men will not be a long time. your grandchildren -- were it will be saved to put school teachers up there. -- where it is going to be safe enough to permit students and poets of there. the idea of putting killing them was crazy. >> i don't think that killing them was their intention. >> we killed just one, right? >> that is enough. >> i agree. >> one final question. we are getting this signal that

we need to wrap this up. >> it is sort of like christmas eve morning and finding all of the presence. -- presents. i disappointed to see you. i wondered if you could sign my book that gene has already signed? [laughter] [applause] >> she wants to know if you will sign her book. gene has already signed it. >> failure is not an option tonight. we will get that site for you. -- signed for you. >> thank you. >> thank you for coming tonight. [applause] >> good job. good job.

cable satellite corp. 2009] national captioning institute] >> your watching c-span, crated for you as a public service by america's cable companies. up next, authors and friends gathered to remember john updike.

then, the unveiling of a new statue of ronald reagan in the u.s. capitol. after that, astronauts of apollo 8 reunite. on "newsmakers." the chief economist from the president's economic recovery advisory board talks about the latest unemployment figures. >> obviously, we are not out of the woods. we have had some pretty tough job market reports since december 2007. the rate of job loss has slowed considerably since the president has been in office. i imagine that unemployment may be pushing in the double digits by the time we get to the peak of this. >> see the entire interview on "newsmakers." sunday at 10:00 in the morning.

john updike, the two-time winner of the pulitzer prize for fiction died at the age of 71. mr. updike was remembered at the kennedy library by fellow officers and friends. this is just over an hour. >> we apologize for our late start. i am director of the museum, and we have the ceo. all of my library colleagues, i want to welcome you all. i think you for not getting up. i think the matter more feel a little bit more like kafka. we have arrived, and we are here. let me begin by acknowledging the sponsors of the library form, the companies and our

media sponsors, "the boston globe." i want his last visit to his own state of massachusetts, john kennedy traveled to dedicate a library to robert frost. a nation reveals itself not only by the men and produces, but also by the men that honors and remembers. we're here today to honor john updike. in the words of president kennedy that day, the contributions of artists are not to our size but to our spirit. not to our political beliefs, but to our insight. for artists and writers establish the basic human truth which serves as the touchstone of our judgment. i want to thank all the speakers for being here today and members of the updike family for their participation and support of today's event.

to amy mcdonald organized this event and c-span for broadcasting distribute nationally. to our colleagues for their collaboration on literary events such as this one and to their executive director and to our master of ceremonies. -- master of ceremonies, christopher leighton. he has lent his voice to the intellectual and cultural life of this city. over time, he has covered presidential campaigns for the york times, anchored the nightly news, and is currently the source of an internet radio program. in the introduction to a collection of early hemingway stories, updike said that his main debt was to hemingway. it was he that showed us how much complexity dialogue can

convey and how much poetry was indecent was announced. he left york city, describing it as a demimonde of agents and would be is an nonparticipants that he felt and nutritious -- not to be nutritious. and he found satisfying the description of literary new york as a bottle of tapeworms trying to feed on each other. settling in massachusetts, where he was a neighbor and friend to many, including some gathered here today, he once told the "paris review," , when i write, i aim of the least of kansas." 8 countryish boy, finding them, speaking to them. i recall my own introduction, growing up in maine, to heaven when an update -- hemingway and updike.

we read works by both. a remarkable thing for this country boy to discover a remarkably large to world through literature. my stories were written on a manual typewriter in a one-room office between a lawyer and the test and, above a cozy corner restaurant. around noon, the smell of food would rise and i would try to hold on another hour before i ran downstairs. after giving up cigarettes, i spoke nickel cigarillos. the boxes piled up. . .

[applause] >> thank you all. it is a great honor to be here. it is still hard to believe that john updike, the great notice our of our lives is gone, and why else do we notice things at all except to play the game in our heads of comparing notes with john updike on, say, barack

and michelle and their broadway night out? >> it is harder to play that game anymore, and we miss him. it is really impossible not to believe that in some dimension of the spirit that john is not in this room today, and that sort of stuttering chuckle and that infectious, furtive, ironic, never dismiss the air of pleasure in almost everything. it makes something of this day. and i just want to say it is a little hard to account for why i am here at all. i am not an updike scholar by a longshot. i did play one round of 18 holes at -- with turkey -- with our production director. i was not a close friend by any

means. i am that dreaded character known as the fan. i started a little late with the books. i was a young husband and father when couples into the universe with conversation, and in my 30's and '40's i came to adopt a john updike as a sort of guide to being an american guy, in this mysterious and sometimes disconcerting world. i marveled at his prose. i wrote to him once that i thought he might get overpraised, in fact, for the polish of his sentences and not raise enough for his courage. the guts of a burglar in exploring the strangeness, the power, the beauty of sex, for example, the longing for art, the thirst for a living god. then it dawned on me at his death that i love john updike much the way he loved ted

williams, with that hard, blue glow of high purpose, for holding out for a level of care taken with work and himself and his art, when the only thing at stake was the tissue thin difference between the thing done well and the thing done ill. along the way it turned out in my line of work that john updike was a dream to interview on television or on radio. in his back toward in georgetown one time or talking about white evans, the red sox right field. -- about dwight evans. there were so many other times, for example in the gallery filled with cartoons and covers from "the new yorker." often when you interview john updike, it would be at first the

playful, incredibly smart consciousness of the man himself, the very model of the learned, expressive human being, and then afterward would come off and a post card wondering whether his jacket was too blue, or some other bit of television remorse. it is just a privilege to be introducing those of much weightier authority than my own and to share in this collective noticing that life is a little less interesting in johnson's sudden absence. to begin, nicholson baker is a novelist of those which established his reputation for a photojournalist in fiction. his big book, "human smoke," answered it. it is a sort of documented history of the use of weapons of mass destruction, and one of the great iraq war books, to me.

"you and i" was a book like not i had ever read between that happens -- about what happens between the reader and writer. it establishes the fact that nicholson baker is that rare writer who can send up himself, of his subject, tell the whole truth, and making love everybody more than you could have imagined. nicholson baker. [applause] >> thank you. i heard a little chirp come from my computer. it was like the beat of a hospital heart monitor, except that there was only one. it was software telling me that an email had arrived, and then a second later there appeared fading and a little ghostly

rectangle down in the right hand corner, which named the center of the mellon david subject line. it was a man and i did not know very well, who had sent me many e-mail's about his political opinions and his health troubles. the subject line which appeared and then faded,. it said something incomprehensible that was not in english, but was in some horrible language of euphemism. it said, condolences on updikes passing. i thought, passing? what does that mean? are we talking about death, about the death of john updike? he is not dead. he is very much in the middle of things. he has just had a book out, as always, as would always be true. but i checked, and is said he had been sick and apparently had very politely, and without

making any sort of public scene, without any forewarning to people outside his closest circle, died. and sitting there at the desk, i did what you do when you have lost your glasses or your wallet or some crucially important document that you need, like a note to the principles. i felt around on the desk top of my mind for what i had a john updike, what i could substitute for the living as of the man, and i did not have anything that would serve, because the tremendous thing about him was that he was alive and writing and revising in reviewing some big wrongheaded biography expect and releasing another small piece of his own remembered past, perhaps slightly disguised as fictionalized. he was in the midst of being a writing person, as well as being a human being who has a wife and

a former wife and children and editors and fans. thats@@@@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ evidence of his ongoingness. the computer started chirping again, and there were editors that led me to write something about him. a long time ago, i published a book that was about him. i guess i thought of it -- i guess i was taught as an expert on updike. i was just a mourner like anyone else. so i said, no, i am sorry. i am just sad. that's all i have to offer. just my own sadness. what i think of now though, is a time when i saw him in the garden. rden more than 20 years ago. it was a cold, overcast late

afternoon in the '80s, and there was a man walking toward me on the path. it was a narrow path, and i knew who it was. it was the famous john updike. we were over past the statue of george washington in the part of the garden that has fewer trees. it is always colder and when you are than other parts, and i had to figure out what to do. he was wearing a tweed jacket, button up tightly, and a scarf and hat. he obviously had somewhere to go, as i did not, really. if i stopped and i said, mr. updike? he would have politely stopped and we would have had every conversation. i would maybe said that i like his writing, that he had signed one of his books for once and i had sent a fan letter but i had not put a return address on it because i did not want to compel him to answer. in the letter i told him that my girlfriend who had since become

my fiancee had dug out of a wicker basket a story of his and given it to me and i had read two-thirds of it and decided, walking under the awning of a tuxedo shop in a moment of passing shade, that i wanted very much to write him and to tell him how happy it made me to know that he was out there working, but i could not stop him on his path and tell him all that because he was on his way somewhere. so i decided, instead, that i would just nod. i would pack everything i knew about him into my nod. [laughter] everett memoranda had about packed dirt and the harvard lampoon and the drawing class at oxford and the office upstairs at ipswich, all that knowledge of him i would cram into one smiling, knowing nod.

and that is what i did. and he nodded back, little and certainly, i think. he was not sure. maybe he knew me. then later in a letter, he said , didn't we meet once on arlington street? he remembered mine nod. what a memory on that guy. his very best book is his memoirs, health consciousness. he was best when he was truest, and the most amazing thing about his truthfulness is its level of finish, of polish, because we all have faults. they are slumped on the couch and they are not at their very best. in fact, they are not completely shapen and they are not all that clean, necessarily. they are living in a halfway house of what you have to say.

what updike does is he sends them an invitation. it is tasteful, understanding it -- understated, but beautifully engraved. he says, the favor of a reply is requested. please accompany john updike to the official writing of his next piece on whatever it is, on the car radio, on the monument to the united states, on william dean howells, who he said served his time to well. please attend this essay. at the bottom it says very quietly, black tie. formalwear. that is what you want from an essay. you want these thoughts to have done their best, to have at least rent their outfits and present themselves to the world in their best guise. in not come as you are, updike said. come in black tie. -- do not come as you are.

they obliged him repeatedly. they said ok, rsvp, we will be there. again she could say we had a correspondence over the years in that he wrote me letters and i wrote him letters that began, dear john. i once wanted to have a cup of coffee with him, and i think he'd prefer to have -- he preferred to write a letter. and who can blame him? there was one thing that i really wanted to write him about four years and never did -- for years and never did. i wanted to write him that i had read one of his stories aloud to my daughter who was then about 13. i read her story called "the city." it is about a man who is on a business trip and he has a spot of in digestion and then turns out to be worse than in digestion, excruciatingly

painful. he goes to the hospital, and it is his appendix. the whole story is just a very simple but well described account of his hospital stay in a city that he never ends up seeing. as i was reading it to my daughter, i came to the moment in the story that are remembered from when i first read it. the man is lying in his hospital room in the middle of the night, and he hears people moaning on either side of him. then there is a son of -- the sound of tiny retching, and then there is a sentence, carson was comforted by these evidences him that at least he had penetrated into a circle acknowledged ruin. the word "ruin"there is so amazingly good, so well-placed. maybe it was that i gave a

special inflexion as i read it aloud, but i do not think so. my daughter said, that is good. right at that moment, she liked, and she was excited by the very same phrase in the story that i had been excited by. it seemed so reassuring to know that there is sometimes an absolute moment in a story that many people will independently discover and remember, even across generations, and that this may have been one of those moments. i wish i had told him that in the letter, and now i will never get to do that, so i tell it to you, with sorrow. thank you. [applause]

>> thank you, nick maker. steve bergman is an md psychiatrist, he is a writer, he is a recovering basketball star, and was for many years a golf buddy of john updike's. he wrote the huge leak internally best-selling story of medical school called "house of god." he also, with his wife, wrote a play that will never die, i think, about the founders of alcoholics anonymous. his newest book is a novel called "the spirit of the place ,"and it has won awards. jocks know things about jocks, i look forward to what steve is going to tell us. >> thank you.

this is a short story of a long friendship. john was the second writer i ever met. it was 1979. my personal had come out. he was 46, i was 34. we met at the house of the two riders. my first impression was clouded by nervous awe, but it was summer, and our conversation turned to golf. a week later, i was out on a public golf course packed with beer swilling guys whose wings were converted from hockey. there had been a mistake and we were able to buy some, a six sum, actually. another young -- we were a fivesome. one couple would walk along with their arms around each other's waist, a true updikean touch.

you can tell everything about a person by the way they play a sport. last night i calculated that in 30 years, john and i spent at least by thousand hours playing golf. we had a regular force and an often played with his son, david, now also a dear friend. -- we had a regular foresome. john was meticulous, are scorekeeper, cherishing the little yellow golf pencils. he was cruel, picking up pencils and tees all along the ground. for an uncontrolled and deviance into the raw sensuality of woods and briars and swamps and lakes and sand traps, reliable to a fault on the greens, capable of astonishing flights of golf poetry and sudden crashes into a golf trash, and really funny. once when we were teamed up against the other two and i complained of a bad back, he

said, steve, i wanted to know, if it is a choice between helping the team and hurting your back, i wanted to hurt your back. -- i want you to hurt your back. >> we would always talk about his medical questions. we always had our literature and career chat, what we were reading and writing, the folly of both popular literary taste, with the gossip was. often he would repeat something i said and i knew i would soon see it in a book or short story. he had an astonishing i and gathered details. he made sure he knew the name of the last three to turn color. harry's condo in florida in "rabbit at rest " was my parents', whom john state with in order to be sure he got it right. janet and i became another foursome, celebrating christmas

at their home with their mixed families. soon there start arriving book after book and private editions as for their presence, as well as cartoons and drawings such as a set of four golf balls on each a cartoon of the face of a member of our foursome. one night genet insisted that john and i take the myers briggs personality inventory -- janet insisted. i came out as a writer. he came out as an office worker or clark. [laughter] so much for psych testing. we went to a fortune teller who came out with the same conclusion. every book he sent had an inscription, often blaming me "for steve, during this novel by suggesting it an inquiring after it constantly and making me talk it's lovely essence away." 48 niago for steve, without whos

piece would have been composed with much less distraction." but to each of these, he added with affection, "john was the most loyal friend i ever had. he would always show up for events and listen attentively to my publishing was. if we had not talked on the phone for a while, he would always call. imagine a man who would call. when my publisher asked him if he would write the introduction to an addition of my novel, to my surprise, he said yes, and included it in one of his anthologies. in postcards and letters and half joking inscriptions in the books, he pointed out my strengths and weaknesses as a writer, always in an encouraging way. i never saw him beyonyawn, and e

never lost his temper. once at dinner at home when he was so angry that he pointedly left his napkin dropped a full 5 inches from his hand to the table. he was the most generous of critics. only in the last few years that i ever hear him voiced irritation at a writer. one in particular, who shall remain nameless. he talked freely with me about the craft. i learned an enormous amount from him. we had a secret joke. in "the witches of eastbrook," he wrote "the new young editor of the word slipped on a frozen state outside the barbershop and broke his leg. " in my next novel, -- when i receive his last novel, sure enough, there toby bergman was again.

the last few years of our friendship, because of@@@@@@ and scarred face, but when i looked into his eyes, those eyes, i recognize the signature of boyish joy of being alive and at play for another great day. he and i, too small-town boys

sitting there in a grown-ups exclusive club, eating our sandwiches of bone china on a starched white tablecloth. the sun shone hot on the 18th green, lighting it up as if it were made of crushed emeralds. over lunch we laugh hard, happy to see each other again and delighted with their good fortune in live, talking about everything as best friends do, and in parking, he with his general handshaking slight stammer. i turned and saw him walking away slightly stooped, snowy hair shining in the sunlight, but with a bounce in his step as he swung his putter along, heading toward the green to practice. that is the last time i ever saw him. there was the last post card in november. he told me about his diagnosis and a few other things about the care his family was showing him. after that, he drew back into himself. i knew that the sadness and aggressiveness of his cancer had been a shock to his self-image,

and into that simply does not happen to those who, despite their bodies, phil young, feel in touch with in his transcendent line in one of his points, are having at the start but not the end of life. -- our heaven at the start. i kept in touch through david and the notes i wrote john. they are all different kinds of love in the world, and john wrote brilliantly about most of them. he taught me a lot about the love and friendship, and i find myself thinking about him most days as if he is still around. and then realizing he is not, missing him pretty bad. when you did not get to say goodbye, there is a hole in your heart, sometimes for a long time. so i just want to say goodbye, john, i love you. you will live with me and all of

us here today for the rest of our lives. thank you. [applause] >> thank you, steve. charles mcgrath, known as chip, is mary mcgrath's big brother, she being an exemplary radio producer and formidable golfer. ship is a writer at large for a good the new york times," but he is known for his service as editor of "the new york times" book review as a kind of definitive literary editor. john used to kid mary about him, called chip the custodian of american literature. he reminds me a little bit of that wonderful cd of bill evans

entitled "everybody loves bill evans." everybody loves chip mcgrath, and writers are generally inclined to distrust their editors, but they love chip mcgrath. he was a friend of john updike who read a lot of his work before it went into "the new yorker." he got extraordinary chance to deliver john updike's last book of points in the audio book. it is a great pleasure to introduce chip mcgrath. [applause] >> i sometimes think that john updike is responsible for much of the happiness and satisfaction in my life. it began when i started reading him. it has always been a pleasure of his writing. i started in high school, and i even sort of imagined i was the updike characters. i think i prefer his adolescence

to mind. by the time i was in college, i was such an idolater that it seem to me that the great man needed to know about me. so i made a pilgrimage to ipswich. i took the bus from new haven to boston and then the trains to the -- the train to the north shore. i got there about dinnertime, when it occurred to me that the great men would probably be sitting down and his family. what i say to him? i did not have a clue, so i got back on the train and went home. [laughter] i often think from that and characteristic act of restraint so many of the blessings in my life. i actually got to know updike, to work at the magazine he wrote for, even to edit him on occasion. like so many young writers and editors, i got a couple of those magical postcards with john's address rubber-stamp in the upper left corner, offering some generous words of encouragement. john lived far removed from new york, the so-called literary

capital, and yet in many ways he was still the one man center of literary life in this country, reading, reviewing, carrying on extensive correspondence. he was a foremost literary critic. writers everywhere cherishes example and long for his approval. but i would like today to talk about a part of updike that is less often discussed, his poetry, what he called the thready backside of his life's tapestry. i am ashamed to say that until just recently, i took this part of his work a little bit for granted and tended to undervalue it. almost everyone did, except the poetry community, and they were mostly annoyed. you have your novels, your stories, your essays, the official attitude seemed to be. why do have to do this, too? i remember that even howard moss, himself a very good poet, used to take a certain satisfaction in pointing out the flaws in john's work.

that was professional resentment, but with so many of us slow to appreciate john's verse? he was particularly self- effacing about his poetry, as if anticipating rejection. he used to send his poetry submissions with a stamped, self-addressed envelope and accompany them with a little self deprecatory know. he used a rubber stamp again, and it is not hard to imagine him as a literary tradesmen, stamping his wares every morning and launching them in the mail and waiting to see what came back. he loved the mechanical part of correspondents. long after he had become famous and successful, he still thrilled to a letter or phone call of acceptance. i think that placing a point sometimes tickled him even more than selling a story. in the preface to his collected poems he wrote, "the idea of first, a poetry, has always come during for years been working

primarily in prose, stood at my elbow as a standing invitation to the highest kind of verbal exercise, the most satisfying, the most archaic, the most elusive of critical control." another reason johns poetry may be undervalued is that he began as a practitioner of light verse, that now all but vanished for, and never entirely gave it up. he is often a light verse writer the way jams merrill is. most of his poetry in habits the end of the spectrum that is clever, funny, even a little chatty, rather it be less than soulful and unadorned. he often slides invisibly from the playful to the elegiac and back again. nothing could be more serious than the opening suite of poems in "end point," the last book of poetry. it is his last surprise for his

loyal readers. possibly it was a surprise for him, to, this book of heart breaking, beautiful poems written as he knew he was dying. as henry james would have said, nothing was wasted on john. all of experience was material waiting to be transformed into art, and he did it right to the end. in some ways he resembles thomas hardy, who at the end of his life turned away from fiction and dedicated himself solely to poetry. updike wrote fiction almost to the in, but who would have guessed his last testament, so to speak, is a volume of poetry so great that it would have a claim on us and on austerity even if he had never written a word of prose. i do not want to dwell on e heart wrecking candor and self reflection of his last points. i will in by mentioning something else, the music. that he was a great descriptive poet goes without saying. it may be another reason his poems were sometimes undervalued.

in his prose you always find passages with an ability to transcend. he was not a show of. sometimes you have to listen carefully to hear this music. i did not begin to hear it properly or appreciated until recently when i was asked to read the audio book version of "in point." i thought i knew his poetry greenwell, but sitting in a booth -- i thought i knew his poetry pretty well. but i heard things going on that i did not know were there. echoes of frost and hopkins, language as dense an evocative as the world he described. here i would like to read a point that in many ways reenact exactly what he talks about, which is basically the ark of our lives themselves, an attempt to break free and soar in the inevitable fall back to earth.

>> bird caught in my dear netting." the head must have seemed as ever, small edible matter, only a bird's eye could see, mixed with a brownish red needles and earth. a safe, quiet caves such as nature affords the meek, the featherhead alert to what it sought, bright eyes starting everywhere, but above, where net had been laid. then, at some moment, mercifully unwitnessed, an attempt to rise higher, to fly, met by an all but invisible women, beating wings pinned, ground instinct and 9. the freedom of impossibly clothes, all about. how many starved hours of struggle to resume in fits of life's irritation did it take to seal and sew shut the very bright eyes and untie the tiny wild on of the heart? i cannot know, discovering this

wad of fluff in his corner of netting gear cannot shoot through nor gravity defined bird bones and break. thank you. [applause] >> thank you, chip. and bearnaise had a head start. she is the great niece -- ann bernays. she is the great niece of sigmund freud. she has written non-fiction, some of it with her husband he, like "the language of names," and "back then." she has also been a leading lady and guardian angel of letters around boston and cambridge ever since she arrived from new york in 1959 around the start of the new england era of john updike. she and john were friends from

the 1950's. ann bernays, please. [applause] >> i am not going to read a talk. i am just going to make a few small, personal statements and do some remembering. there is a tendency, i think, a temptation to make a god out of a man who writes like a god, and i hope that will not happen. i hope that all these wonderful people today, with their memories and their anecdotes, will help us keep in mind that this was an incredible man as well as an incredible writer. my relationship, as chris said st,, started when i moved to

cambridge in 1959. we met him the first year we are in cambridge at a party. i was absolutely dumbstruck. i was all stricken and i could not talk to him. i think my being that tongue tied in his presence kept our relationship will like this, so that we never became real buddies. but i worshipped him. i think, on his part, it was amused toleration of me, that is, because i kept asking him to do things all the time, and sometimes he did them and sometimes he did not. one time he came onto a panel that i had arranged that was on rejection. he sat up there. i wondered if any of you were there is, but it was kind of

extraordinary, because john said how he felt when he got@@@@@@rr that was 2000. the first anecdote concerns my teaching at the harvard extension school. i asked john to come in and talk to the students, and he said yes.

so he came in. it was in our living room, and he sat down. they were all looking at him, expecting wisdom, which he eventually delivered. he did turn to each one of them and say, now i expect you not to make workshops a way of life. [laughter] the second one is when we went away, my husband and i, for the weekend, and we came back on sunday night. sunday night. spored daughter, who say not remember this, but i have my husband to prove that it actually happened. it was between marriages, and he lived in a little apartment on beacon hill, i think. he did not have television sets, so hester hurt us coming into the house and she ran to the door and said john updike is in

the kitchen watching television. he is watching golf. [laughter] so we went in there, had not seen him for a while, and he turned around and went, "shh." the last one is so adorable, it makes me cry now. it was again in that little apartment on beacon hill. he said, anne, i have a very serious question to ask you. there is some bread in the icebox, and there is a little bit of green on the outside. he said, is it all right if i eat it? and here is the post card. it is february 17, 2000, not so long ago.

a " dear anne, i miss you and joe, but do spare me -- i had been asking him various things, will you come to this or that, all semiofficial things, but do spare me a, gallows, b, the black ties, c, literary trails. i look forward to you and your husband's memories of new york in the 1950's. i was there from 1955 through 1957 and remember of loathing norman mailer's fulminations in "the village voice." now i love him. the wonders of that time works. all best, john. thank you. [applause]

>> thank you, anne. william pritchard it is a professor of english. he has been teaching novels, plays, and points for more than 50 years. he did not exist, john updike would have invented him, i think. it was womb pritchard who was first -- william pritchard who was first in the field with a sweeping, critical review and appreciation of john updike, american man of letters, which i just reread. it is judicious, enthusiastic, meticulous, and profoundly understanding. it is a great comfort to us fans. william pritchard. [applause] >> thank you, christopher. 36 years ago, i'd rather john updike with a couple of pieces i had written in which he was

quoted were reviewed. his quick response emboldened me to continue bothering him periodically. when i asked if he would accept, if offered, an honorary degree from amherst college, he said yes, provided no speaking, speechifying, was involved, and suggested that just as a nation should conserve its fossil fuel, a writer should try to conserve his face and voice. he did know speechifying and the commencement of that in 1983, but had to deal with to speech challenges, both mentally and gracefully. the first occurred as we ascended steps to the college presidents garden, where drinks would be served. at the tops of a friend, the wife of a pack of a colleague whom i introduced to updike and martha. without a pause, the friend informed and novelist and her mother is very much dislike his latest a " rabbit is rich." doubt was for its sex.

a small, a twinkle, and, "i trust she will not be here tonight? " i introduced him to a thickheaded trustee whose business success has left small time for literary matters. he asked updike, what do you do? >> "i am a freelance writer," was the reply. later that evening we had a small party at our house, and among those in attendance were to novelists -- two novelists. when updike wrote to thank you for looking after him, he noted, your post dinner party was a lot of fun. maureen howard had panned "marry me." but knows what other slights had beenerpetrated, but we sat down cozy as kindergarteners on their first day, determined to be good, a steady and craft

loyalty. [laughter] in anticipation, he had pictured the commencement ceremony itself held outdoors as sun drenched and laced with chamber music. alas, the only music consisted of two hymns to amherst, and soon after it commenced, a steady rain had begun to fall. when i over eagerly sent him a letter i had written defending him against some aspersions and revere cast on his recent work, in the midst of another rally replied, he noted, you credit me with a couple dozen engaging in, sometimes moving short stories. when i published more than zero hundred, that i hope were rather more than engaging -- more than 100. never had the word "engaging" looked wore shabby to me. he was a teacher of fiction. when i published a book about my

life as a student and teacher, mostly conducted at the same institution, he reminded me that he was not a teacher. i found your gracious me more about all those m. hurst year slightly harrowing in the way i fine colleges harrowing. everything is so dear, the neo- gothic buildings, the intelligent and witty faculty, and the shiny eyed students looking up and being fed. all celebrants of the golden days of college. he was careful not to sentimentalize his own, not unhappy years as a harvard undergraduate. about a seminar i once offered divided equally between his work and bill roth's, he professed to being made nervous by the syllabus. just looking at it aroused letters in my stomach. thinking of all that reading, i picture you and your 21 students a bit like those people in

jericho's wrath to the medusa, gesturing and staring in different directions while the damn thing sinks under you. he went on to muse, i keep wandering if i were in amherst student, what i'd sign up for your course? i would learn a lot, no doubt it. a smidgen of doubt surfaced in me. what was i doing, a harrowing him with a syllabus from one of those colleges with shiny eyed students looking up and being fed? maybe i should have been giving in spenser's faerie queen. when i determined to write a book about him, i asked if he had any objection to the enterprise. he said blessings on me as long as it was not a biography. as the book went along, he professed concern for my situation. the thought of you conscientiously trudging through my oeuve wants me -- haunts me.

had done this to the unstoppable producer? he said he had cooked up one more book on the misadventures of henry back. his response to the finished book was full and generous. he began, there i am, thanks to you, my name is two and a half inches high, and my youthful self post in march grass. he guessed that he was more heroic back then, burton was sharp angst he did it burdened with sharp angst. when the book was reprinted by years later with an introduction, commenting briefly on the books he had written since i first account, he noted humorously that i whisk through the last five years.

he got the reluctant impression that i had become a burden to you, a task that never ends. a kind of hectoring taskmaster like the school master, creeping like a snail unwillingly to school. i heard from a year ago when he was pleased to deliver a book of stories for publication. like so many others, i was stunned at the beginning of this year to learn he was seriously ill. the fact a he had not acknowledged a recent note should have told me something. a few years ago i mentioned to him my sadness of the debt of a poet. -- the death of a poet. he replied he was sorry to hear of the death, but ask, at the age of 81, how bad are we supposed to feel? somewhat bad, i think. about his own death, we might be justified in stealing someone

that, but the books are there. -- in feeling somewhat bad, but the books are there. thank you. [applause] >> the last word comes from the family, as it should. elizabeth updike is the eldest of the four updike kids. she is a painter and she teaches art in concord, massachusetts. elizabeth. [applause]

[no audio] a competing force, perhaps, but ultimately, and especially now, who will have been yearning for. first to his desk and into fame,

to the rhythms and lifestyle of his other family while we were preoccupied with ours. and finally, to his illness and death in january. he never got very far. we would wheel him in for graduations and backyard events and such. without being overly involved, he was a father and grandfather. i think we are at peace with that. our father could not help that. becoming a darling of american literature was a natural transition to make after growing a brilliant and good-natured, the only child

he juggled his gift of his family. we had a good and memorable childhood spent in parallel play with our fathers writing. my siblings and i like to come across characters and places bearing a resemblance to who and what we know. we like his humor, and everything edged in irony. his sensitive descriptions of everyday objects or moments that others might dismiss. we like to sense that we share something with him. we will have continuous access to him and his way of thinking and of noticing and caring. we have a powerful line to talk on again and again. our mother, a painter who married my father in a huge gap the fate before his career path

was even clearer, together, it gave the four of us the freedom to find our way to be artistic and be ourselves. unwitting apprentices to the ways of our parents, we had become comfortable with the creative process and with our news. perhaps we are all, everybody, half siblings to our parents work. we can take another credit or blame, but we can choose a quality of theirs, a way of being in the world, and use it to see -- and use it as we see fit. in that way, it departed parent, whether leaving behind a body of work or pair of shoes never completely slips away. and i have chosen from "americana" the poem "rainbow."

on the rest atmosphere's curved edge, struck by the reemergence son and oversize glorious coinage, meant fresh from violent to read it, if cereal and routed -- the serial -- ethereal and rooted. it leaves a strange confetti of itself, bright dots of pure rekindled color. what on earth? lobster markers. thank you.

>> thank you, elizabeth. thank you, everybody. each one of these marvelous lines conjures up others that had almost forgotten. just a couple quick thoughts and we're done. i think of a friend of john saying to me years ago, you want to know what moon dust feels like under your feet? don't send the astronauts, said john updike -- send john updike. i am looking for the definitive collection of john's postcards. thank you all for -- and praised god for john updike.

>> coming up on c-span, the unveiling of a new statue of ronald reagan in the west capital and then astronauts of apollo 8 reunite to remember there were around the moon in december of 1968. following that, on america and the courts, a look at supreme court nominees on themsotomayor. -- sausaonia sotomayor. paul weckley stresses consumer health-care issues and some amir on c-span.

>> this reminds me of modern cathedrals that donors would build wings on, open the would go to heaven. >> i think that princeton philosophy should be on the web. i think that these wonderfully concentrated islands of talent should be open to the larger society, not kept separate which they still are and i cannot understand why. >> sunday night at 8 on c-span. you can also listen on xm satellite radio. >> a new statue of ronald reagan is unveiled in the capitol rotunda last month, five years after the former president died. nancy reagan and harry reid took

part in this 50 minute ceremony. 50-minute ceremony. >> ladies and gentlemen, please welcome members of the united states senate, the house of representatives, the speaker of the house, honored guests, and mrs. ronald reagan.

[applause] >> today, we're gathered to honor president reagan with the unveiling of the statue in the capital. please all stand and remains errant -- remain standing for the opening ceremony. >> please remain standing for the presentation of colors by the united states armed forces color guard, and remained standing as reverend barry black against the invocation. -- it gives the invocation.

-- gives the invocation. ♪

♪ o say can you see by the dawn's early light what so proudly we hail as the twilight's last gleaming whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight o'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming and the rockets' red glare the bombs bursting in air

gave proof through the night that our flag was still there oh, say does that star spangled banner yet wave o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave ♪ ♪

>> please be seated. >> let us pray. lord, the light of lights. how majestic is your name and all the earth? we marvel that you care about

humanity and have crowned us with glory and honor. today, accept our gratitude for this congressional tribute to president ronald reagan whose love for freedom inspired our nation to embrace our best . and to lift liberty's lamp until freedom's light was seen around the world. may this statue, in his honor , remind us of amercica's

opportunity to motiveate us to discover your will. give us grace to love what you command, and to desire what you have promised. brant that guided by your light, that we may reach the light that never fades, that illumined by your truth, we may reach the truth that is complete. we pray in your holy name, amen. >> ladies and gentlemen, the

hon. john boehner. >> mrs. reagan, madam speaker, honored guests and colleagues. let me first say a big thank-you to the california delegation, especially jerry lewis and ken calvert for all of their efforts to make this day possible. on october 27, 1964, ronald reagan gave a nationally televised address supporting barry goldwater, the republican nominee for president. while goldwater was later defeated by lyndon johnson, many americans watching that day immediately sensed that reagan would one day become president. the title of reagan's speech was "a time for choosing."

would people vote for self- government or would they be submitting themselves to be ruled by elites@@@@c), tu wasn't just a vision that moves people his way, it was also his tone. smile always quick with a or a self-deprecating joke.

he once said, i have left orders to be awakened in case of a national emergency. even if i am at a cabinet meeting. he clearly had the polls and the respect of the average american. ronald reagan developed an alliance with margaret thatcher, pope john paul the second, and these three get the individuals led the west out of what has been called the nightmare years of the 1970's. together, they literally changed the world for the better. today, we honor president reagan goes a lifetime of achievement, and we honor his legacy of economic and political freedom. early in his presidency, he fought to enact a set of tax cuts altered in part by fellow conservative who would be honored to be year today.

-- to be here today. the tax cuts that reagan enacted drop rates that were as high as 70%. this allowed on corporate doors to build, expand, and create jobs. his economic policies inspired the largest peacetime expansion in u.s. history. the growth was predicated on free trade, low taxes, deregulation, and curbing runaway inflation i recently had an opportunity to tour the reagan ranch in santa barbara. i noticed the desk that president reagan used to signed the tax cuts into law. the free-market policies set in motion on that very table was responsible for creating some 35 million new jobs in america through 1999.

this is another part of ronald reagan's legacy. this is a piece of rock from the berlin wall. those walls came down because of ronald reagan's relentless commitment to freedom and his insistence on american victory in the cold war. he was unafraid to sit the soviets were actually the evil empire. reagan rejected the moral relativism to his day that was blind to the distinction between jenny and freedom. ronald reagan saw america as the city on a hill. set apart by god intended us to be free. his first inaugural address, he said that freedom and the dignity of the individual had been more available and more assured here than at any other place on earth. three years later, commemorating

the fallen warriors of omaha beach, reagan said that we will always remember. we will always be proud. we will always be prepared so that we may always be free. today, our freedom is defended by an aircraft carrier and 5500 settlers on the uss ronald reagan -- and the 1500' sailor n the uss ronald reagan. if you study the man, you see the rhythm of life described by shakespeare. all the world's stage and all the men and women are merely players. one man, in his time, would play many parts. ronald reagan played his part to brilliantly, with words into

deeds. he inspired his countryman. we're honored to to add his likeness to this great paul -- to this great whohall. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, the republican later -- leader of the united states senate, mitch mcconnell. >> friends, fellow members of congress, trustees of the ronald reagan presidential foundation, mrs. reagan. today, we celebrate a great

man's life. as we dedicate this statute in this place of honor, we affirm that man's treasured place in our hearts and our nation's storied history. many today are too young to remember what a difference he made but rather than recite the history lesson, let me just say this. when america fought our best days lay behind us, ronald reagan showed they still lay ahead. when the world sought freedom was in retreat, ronald reagan proved that liberty was still the strongest force in history. and when many thought freedom should negotiate should tear it -- should negotiate with any. of ray and had the courage to

call tierney by its name and say freedom when ronald reagan is remembered as one of the giants of the 20th-century. he deserves our admiration, and he deserves this statute. the real ronald reagan stood taller than anyone. we know the source of that strength. she is here with us. nancy, together, you and president reagan lifted our nation when we needed them not -- when we needed it the most. and america is still grateful. you will always have a special place in our hearts. when ronald reagan began the journey that led to the sunset of his life, he remained

optimistic about america even then. and as he put it some memorably in a handwritten letter to the nation, i know that for america, there will always be a bright dawn ahead. holding firm to the ideals that he embraced throughout his remarkable life, we can say the same. and inspired by the example of ronald wilson reagan, we can pay even greater tribute than a monument that we dedicate here today. we can build that hopeful future that he always saw before him. that is a living tribute leo this great man -- we owe this great man. it is the memory that this

nation that he loved deserves. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, majority leader of the united states senate, the hon. harry reid. >> his earliest days as an actor entertaining crowds on the las vegas strip to his profound partnership, my state has always felt close to president reagan. the same week ronald reagan became governor of california, he first sought the presidency.

and when president reagan was down the street in the white house, po work here in the united states and that as a senior senator. paul was president reagan's #1 confidante in the senate. when the president ask for things important, he went to paul. when he sent paul to the philippines, he brought that nation back from the brink of civil war. he is with us today to honor his good friend. he was so close to president reagan, that he called him the first friend. we know that no one was more important to president reagan and his loving, below the first lady, nancy. ms. reagan, it is wonderful to see you. we had a wonderful time visiting here, exchanging stories about ronald reagan. but you're here today, smiling

as always, but president reagan goes inside. jazz fagan said that when a car of the statue that we're about to -- chas fagan said that when he carved the statue that we are about to see, he pictured reagan laughing at one of his jokes. this is where the president began his first term by telling the country that those in iran were on their way home. as temperatures outside sank in the single digits, president reagan began his second term. it was the first and only time the president has taken an oath of office in the capitol rotunda. on that better, cold day, his confidence warned in reassured america up.

history is a ribbon, always unfurling. history is a journey. as we continue our journey with those who traveled before us. his travels from dixon, ill., hollywood, loss vegas, washington, and beyond, he leaves a legacy. throughout that time, nevada has always been called -- proud to call ronald reagan and neighbor, a leader, and a friend. >> ladies and gentlemen, the speaker of the united states house of representatives, the hon. nan pelosi. >> it is a distinct honor, i know from my colleagues as well as myself, to welcome some many

distinguished guests on this very special day in the capital. the unveiling of the statue in the capital is always exciting. rarely are we able to do it in the presence of an immediate family member. it is usually about history. today, it is a great privilege for all of us to be joined by the former first lady, mrs. ronald reagan, nancy reagan. we're honored to have you here. president reagan and mrs. reagan had one of the great love stories of all time. and the american people benefited from that. the support, the love that mrs. reagan gave the president were a

source of joy to the american people and again, of strength to the president of the united states. mrs. reagan, with your presence here today, i hope you know that we honor you, not only for your support of the president, but for turning that support and love into action. it is your support for stem cell research that has made a significant difference in the lives of many american people. it has saved lives, it has found cures, it has given hope to people. it is appropriate that we gather here with leaders on both sides of the aisle and both chambers of the house. i am pleased that my predecessor, speaker dennis has church is here. thank you for joining us.

we're also joined by the former we're also joined by the former governor of califor [applause] president reagan understood that bipartisanship and civility were important in all of our debates. mr. michael, how were you? -- how are you? and citi hoyer. you probably think that i will include everybody. the president understood the value of bipartisanship and civility in our debates. always a gentleman, he never questioned the motives of the person because he knew people in public office love our country. country and acted on behalf of the american people. his friendship with another speaker, tip o'neill, is legendary.

that friendship was based on, among other things, their irish heritage. it was characterized by grace, by charm, and by teamwork. i would like to share, as a californian, a special pride we take as californians in the unveiling of the statute today. jerry lewis probably knows this story. when president reagan was governor of california, he went over to the chamber to deliver the state of the state address. it happened to be around the time of his birthday, so the legislators will than a birthday cake. the president proceeded to blow out the candles and someone called out to him and said, governor, did you make a wish? without missing a beat, he said,

yes. but it didn't come true. the speaker of the assembly was someone who he did not share much political ground. he said, he's still there. [laughter] in august 2006, that same state legislator voted overwhelmingly in a bipartisan way to establish ronald reagan's statue as our second california statute in the capital of the united states. and so here we are today. we're standing next to the statute of president eisenhower over here. when we dedicated this statue not that long ago, members of

president eisenhower's family was here. they told us that he wanted to be depicted in his general's in the form as he was addressing the troops before d-day. president eisenhower, president reagan, and all of us to take the oath of office know that our first responsibility is to protect and defend the american people. that is why it is so appropriate that president reagan's statue has contained within it, chunks of the berlin wall as a symbol of his commitment to national security and his success. [applause] president reagan said that we must not only preserve the flame

of freedom, but we must cast its warmth and light further than those who came before us. that is our responsibility. with the unveiling of the statute today, we know that all who come after us, the respect, the steam, and the admiration that california, this congress, and the american people have for president ronald reagan. thank you. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, the united states army chorus.

[singing] ♪ oh, beautiful for spacious skies for amber waves of grain for purple mountain majesties above the frigid plane -- fruited plain america, america, god shed your grace on thee and crown thy good with brotherhood from sea to sihning sea -- shining sea ♪

♪ ♪ and mercy more than life america, america, may god thy glory find in all success -- ♪

♪ america, america america, america ♪ ♪ oh, beutiful ♪ ♪ america, america god shed his grace on thee and crown thy good

with brotherhood from sea to shining sea ♪ ♪ from sea from sea to shining sea ♪ [applause]

[applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, mr. frederick ryan jr., chairman of trustees for the ronald reagan presidential foundation. >> with a spectacular performance by the u.s. army corps is. [applause] on behalf of the ron reagan presidential foundation, i would like to take this opportunity to convey our appreciation to the bipartisan congressional leadership that both houses of congress for arnold -- for honoring ronald reagan in the special way.

in the same spirit of reaching across the political aisle, congress has just passed, and yesterday president obama has signed, legislation creating a national commission on the ronald reagan centennial. it will recognize president reagan goes accomplishments and celebrate his legacy on the occasion of his upcoming one hundredth birthday. in many ways, we at the reagan foundation view this event today as the kickoff of the reagan centennial celebration. our warm and sincere appreciation for speaker policy -- pelosi for hosting us today. [applause] in building -- in building the presidential library and establishing the ronald reagan foundation, it was the president goes a desire that these organizations always be looking forward and not back. always focusing more on the future than the past.

because ronald reagan's core beliefs and principles are timeless. every bit as relevant today as they were nearly three decades ago when he was elected president. the statue we are about to see is truly spectacular. however, we gather here today for a purpose far more important than unveiling a new piece of art. today, we remember ronald reagan's great contributions to our country and perpetuate his legacy of placing his like this year in the dome of american democracy. president reagan would certainly be humbled, but incredibly proud to receive the special honor from the country he loves. and i know he would insist that this recognition is not just about one man. but about the values that he stood for, and the people who worked with him to make our country and the world a better place.

we are delighted that with us today are so many people who were part of that great time in our country's history. these are more than just great staffers, members of congress, the men and women who form the body and backbone of our country's history, first as president reagan goes the chief of staff and as his secretary of treasury, his trusted friend and colleague, james baker. [applause] >> thank you very much, fred. madam speaker, mcconnell,

moehner -- boehner, nancy, ladies and gentlemen. i speak for everyone here when i say thank you for magnificent service as our nation'first lady. most of all, for the love and support you gave our fortieth president. because you created that secure space from which he ventured forth to change america and to change the world. and so as the ceremony honors him, nancy, it also honors you. [applause] now ladies and gentlemen, there are many people who deserve recognition for this beautiful

sculpture of president reagan. including all the members of congress who honored him with their presence here today. but two other individuals played specially important roles. first of all, john rogers. we're here today because of his financial generosity as the patron for this magnificent bronze. john, you serve president reagan with great distinction, both an office and out of office. and now you have served his memory and his legacy. second, the chairman of the board of trustees of the ronald reagan presidential foundation, fred, it was the foundation's vision and that president reagan belong here in this hall. it was through your perseverance that turn that vision into reality. you and the foundation have been a truly remarkable job.

a truly remarkable job. ladies and gentlemen, it is ronald wilson reagan. [applause] like samuel adams, he was an american patriot. like henry clay, he was a superb orator, like george washington, he was a truly great president. and like will rogers, because the gipper and oklahoma's favorite son had a lot in common, but both starred in the movies and they both love of horses and they both were great at telling a joke. . .

number of crises. vietnam', watergate, unemployment, and public confidence was low. experts said that america's best days were behind us, and we ought to lower our expectations. ronald reagan and his boundless optimism would have none of that. we are not doomed to an inevitable decline, he said at his first inaugural. we have every right to dream and to dream heroic dreams. and so, ladies and gentlemen, we did. president reagan demonstrated the power of big ideas. he was guided by deeply held core values, principles about

taxes, spending, and national defence. and most of all, about the essential goodness of the american people and the greatness of america itself. he never wavered from those beliefs. at the same time, this idealist was also a principal of pragmatist. he would fight the good fight, and when he won all that could be one, he would accept the compromises that are dictated oftentimes by political reality, declare victory, and move on. so you say, how did he do it? when he left office in 1989, the 1970's was but a distant memory.

america oppose the economy would be six years into a boom that would continue almost two decades longer with only the briefest of recessions, truly minor ones by historic standards, until our present difficulties began. when he left office in january 1989, america's pre-eminence in the world had been fully restored. he had strengthened our military. he had talked earnestly and productively with our historic adversaries in moscow. the fall of the berlin wall 10 months later was a testament to the wisdom of his policies. after restoring our economy and restoring our confidence in setting the stage for the end of the cold war, ronald reagan retired from politics and retired from public life. when the lord calls me home, whenever that may be, i will

lead with the greatest love of this country of ours and eternal optimism for its future you will remember, we did him a final farewell five years ago, right here in this capital. with the deepest respect and with love, and with tears, and with a renewed appreciation of what he had done for the united states of america. that shining city on a hill that he saw so clearly and that he loved so very dearly. and now, fittingly, comes this magnificent bronze statue of this great american. it will stand forever as a silent sentry in these hallowed halls to teach our children and our children's again and our grandchildren about that which once was and to inspire them

with visions of that which can be again, today, tomorrow, and done to the generations, may god bless america and ronald wilson reagan. thank you. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, please welcome mrs. ronald reagan. [applause]

>> thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you. thank you so much. i have some many people to think, but i really particularly want to thank nancy pelosi for all she did to organize this, bring it together, make it happen, i am very grateful to her and to everybody else, too. but especially to nancy.

the statue is a wonderful lightness of ronnie. he would be so proud. you know, the last time that i was in this room was for ronnie's service. so it's nice to be back under happier circumstances. i want to thank everybody for being here, for your support, your thoughts, kind wishes, and the lovely singing.

so beautiful. thank you so much. that's it. [laughter] [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, please remain seated for the unveiling of the statue.

>> ladies and gentlemen, the statue of ronald reagan. [applause] >> lest our heads and pray for god's blessing. oh god, source of patriot dreams

and strength of heroes proved. we're confident that this perception of president reagan's statue here in the capital will remind people of the many blessings shed on the great state of california. all visit here -- all who visit here are blessed along with nancy reagan, collaborators, and generations to come who will see this work and remember the words and work of the president of the united states of america. everyone will be blessed who hears this exhortation of ronald reagan and takes it to heart. let us be shy no longer.

let us go to our strength. let us offer hope. let us tell the world that a new wage is not only possible but probable. for the sake of peace and justice, but as a move toward world in which all people are at last free. -- determine their own destiny. may god bless you all, and god bless america. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, we thank you for joining as today. please remain in your seats for the departure of the official party. .

[applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, thank you for attending today's ceremony. >> up next on c-span,

astronauts of apollo 8 reunite to remember their orbit around the moon in 1968. after that on "america and the courts" a look at the life of sonia sotomayor, and later, a preview of the upcoming summit between president obama and medvedev. >> congress returns next week from their july 4 recess with lots of business to complete before leaving again for their august recess. the house returns at 2:00 p.m. eastern on tuesday. on their agenda, agriculture spending, a bill that includes $100 billion for mandatory programs such as food stamps, farm subsidies and rural development. also, a bill to expand small business innovation. see the house live on c-span. and the senate is back on monday at 2:00 p.m. eastern to resume work on legislative branch spending with votes on amends scheduled to begin at

5:30. then they will move on to homeland security spending for 2010. off the floor the senate's health committee will continue marking up their version of the health care bill and minnesota senator elect al franken will meet with harry reid on monday. live coverage, as always, a c-span2. >> this weekend on c-span2's book tv, we take your call on our first president live from george washington's mount vernon estate on in-depth tomorrow at noon eastern. also, p.j. o'rourke, his passion for cars and america's need to drive like crazy. and a nobel piece prize winner and the challenges facing africa. >> in december, 1968, apollo 8 orbited the moon. seven months later apollo 11 landed on the moon. the apollo 8 astronauts orbited

10 times. the astronauts reunited at the lyndon baines johnson library and museum to talk about their mission. there is about an hour and 10 minutes. >> later, as president, l.b.j. guided the apollo program through congress and made sure it was funded and supported. the 1960's were sum multijust, and 1968 was a particularly difficult year with assassinations, riots in the cities and a major setback in vietnam. but in december, at the end of that terrible year, our hearts were lifted by the crew of apollo 8 reading from genesis and bringing us that wonderful picture of earth rise that allowed us to see for the first time how fragile and wonderful

our world really is. of the many precious objects we house in the l.b.j. library, one of my very favorites is this picture signed by the three apollo astronauts and given to president johnson. you know, president johnson sent pictures that these astronauts took. he sent them to every head of state throughout the world, even those with whom we had no diplomatic relationships, an even ho chi minh. this is during the vietnam war. and we had spent a lot of time trying to make direct contact with ho chi minh, trying to talk with him. l.b.j. thought if i can only talk with him, we could get this war ended here. and we actually got a thank you card from ho chi minh by way of berlin, and it says in french, "thank you for sending the photographs of the moon taken by apollo 8." that's also in the library. it's a very precious thing, i think. now, before our moderator, jim

hartz, leads us into the panel, it's my pleasure to welcome linda johnson robb to the podium with some special remarks. linda. [applause] >> on behalf of the johnson family, i'm so honored to be able to be here to thank you in person for coming. as betty suicide, your flight raised our spirits so much. i told my husband, i said, "you don't know what 1968 was like. you were lucky you were in vietnam." [laughter] and i didn't even mean it to be funny. your flight was the second best thing that happened in 1968, only behind the birth of lucinda robb. i told her today, i said,

lucinda, do you remember? you were 2 months old on that christmas day. she was born on october 25. she said, well, really not very well. but we feel a deep connection to y'all and we thank you so much for the spirit that you raised for all of us. daddy cared very much about the space program. i remember walking down to the graveyard and looking up, and daddy was saying, see that sputnik up there? we've got to do something. we've got to have our own space program. and from then on, the space program was one of his children. he cared so much about it, and he was so proud of y'all. and i was there the day that he presented you all with the nasa -- i don't even know the distinguished medal.

i have to look at my notes to tell you what it's really supposed to be called. but i remember being there, and you just raised all of our spirits. and last week or the 13th, actually, tom brokaw was here speaking about the 1960's particularly, and he said that -- i have to quote him here, if i can find it -- that -- well, i guess i didn't -- i've lost the card. oh, no, here we go. well, no, i've lost the card. ok, here we go. [laughter] i just got back from big ben and these men, where they went, could not have been as far away as big ben. but he also was talking to us, and he said that when captain lovell put his thumb up and

said that it covered the entire -- his entire view of earth, making us realize how insignificant we all are. and i think we're all much more aware of that now than we even were in 1968 and reminds us of all the challenges that we had then and all the challenges that we have now to take care of our wonderful planet earth. and i look forward to hearing all the things you're going to say. so i'm going to go sit down and get y'all coming up. [applause] >> in looking out over the audience here, i can see that there are some gray hairs, but

there are some young folks who -- you had to be 40 years old, first of all, to even have been born at the time and you needed to be 50 or 60 to sort of understand what was happening. so let me set the stage just for a minute or two about what was happening in 1968-1969. we're going to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the actual landing on the moon this coming july. there are lots of folks here who worked behind the scenes at nasa, mostly at houston and at the kennedy space center, and i'll tell you a little secret. among the folks at nasa and among the folks who are in my business who covered the space program, we each had a favorite, favorite flight. if you were a scientist, you liked apollo 17, because jack smith, who was a geologist, was on that flight. if you were sort of sentimental, you liked apollo 14, because alan shepard commanded that flight. my favorite was apollo 12 because i got to be close

friends with pete conrad and al, whose paintings are at the exhibition here at the library, an, of course, apollo 11, which was the first landsing on the moon. most people, however, don't know that much about what we're going to talk about tonight, apollo 8. in the apollo program there was a very carefully laid out sequence of events of test flights, each step taking us closer and closer to the moon. and each step had a set of parameters and a set of goals that were to be attained, and then we would move on to the next flight. during the middle 1960's, and coming up to the middle of 1968, there were some problems that developed. the moon lunar modules they were called were running behind in schedules. so the flight that these guys were on was intended to be something totally different.

it was going to be a full-up test flight of all the equipment that was going to be used on the apollo flights, but it would be here in earth's orbit. and if you recall in those days you were never a few hours from safety if anything went wrong. but a decision was made and then held very closely in nasa, those of us in the news business didn't really know about it until later -- to go ahead and use this flight to do something really, in my terms, in the news business terms, dramatic. for nasa it was a logical step. they were going to use it to test the systems a little bit later on. and it was the first time -- let me be clear here -- that anybody that had flown on the

big saturn 5 rocket, for those of you who don't remember, it was 36 stories tall. it weighed 7 1/2 million pounds, most of it highly volatile fuel. there h been no manned flights. previously there were a lot of problems. while they were getting ready to go, a hurricane came through and brushed up the side of florida. the rocket itself was hit by lightning, i think. was there anything else that went wrong? [laughter] any further tensions that could possibly be built there, and the decision was made by the nasa folks and these three guys said, "yes, sir, we're ready, let's go." that was one the things that impressed me so much of covering nasa is the can-do spirit that i saw from the beginning to the end of it.

and i think that the reason why that this room is full tonight is because we look back on that period and it's personified by not only these three guys, but there's another 100 or so sitting out here in the first five rows that were a big part of it, too. so with that stage set, i'd like to begin to let you hear the true story from the three folk who are here this evening. frank, you told me earlier that you'd like to elaborate on what i was saying about these people who were here tonight. >> you know, one of the ways you can really get in trouble in the astronaut program was to say, well, the astronauts think this, or the astronauts think that. john glenn used to irritate me when i was running for office, because i didn't think like john glenn at all, but nevertheless, i was accused of thinking like him. [laughter] but i have checked with my two wonderful companions, and they

agree with me that we owe a debt of gratitude to the alumni here. we wouldn't be here today without you. and it chokes me up just thinking of the trust that we had in you. and one guy really personifies it. of all the people that made nasa work, the real giants of nasa, there's really only one left, and that's chris kraft. [applause] >> chris, i just want to thank you. [applause] >> when i hear today about how these young people are so wonderful, that's nonsense. they weren't any better than you guys. [laughter] the average age of the people that programmed our trajectory was 24 years. you guys were the best, and you could do a hell of a lot better job than anybody's doing today and we appreciate you.

[applause] now i'll shut up. >> no, we got another half-hour, hour to go. you can't shut up now. let's walk through the flight. i said a minute ago that the previous saturn 5 that had been launched prior to you guys -- it was a few months -- had had a lot of problems. first of all, the final stage, the last third stage that was actually going to send you to the moon on that flight didn't fire. and it did another little thing called a pogo. what was a pogo? how could a 30-story, five-story building pogo? well, one of the test flights, as i recall -- this is 40 years ago, of course -- was the fact that we had an engine that went into a vibration sort of a

thing on the structure and we were afraid that if it disintegrated it would ruin the whole day of the flight. >> yes, it would. [laughter] >> so this was something that the engineers that had designed, of course, the rocket had said we have that solved. we think that we have the confidence in our saturn 5 and in a discussion with all the nasa people who were making the decision at that time to change the flight from an earth orbital to a flight to the moon, which, of course, i think, was initiated by george lowell, if i'm not correct, chris, and then decided upon and brought up to the hierarchy of washington and said we could do it. so the pogo situation was taken care of. >> that, by the way, happened on apollo 13. >> a little bit on 8, too. >> on the second stage we had a

pogo on the second stage. but that's another story. >> we'll get to 13 in a little bit. you were the first three guys who sat on top of this big machine and were launched into space. what was going through your -- well, let me back up just a little bit. what went through your mind when they told you that you were not going to do the orbital flight on earth but you were going to do the circular flight? >> well, actually i was a little disappointed. because i was training for the lunar module, checking out in the training vehicle, and i thought if we could get apollo 8 out of the way i maybe could be on apollo 14 or something. i didn't realize that going on apollo 8 would promote me to the command module position. so i was a little disappointed. but as frank has, i think, said very cogently, that apollo -- it wasn't a program of science

all that much. sure, we picked up rocks, sure we did some exploration. it was another battle in the cold war. and if it hadn't been for the russians, we wouldn't have had the public support to pay the taxes that it required to beat those dirty commies. [laughter] that's what it was. [laughter] and so i was quite pleased with the opportunity, being an air force officer, to have a chance to be involved in apollo 8. >> for the younger folks who are here, what was the cold war like and what were the russians doing and what were we doing to counter that? >> well, if i can answer that question, it was perceived that the soviets were more technically advanced with regards to the space flight. after all, they put up dick

guerin. then they put up two people, and we still hadn't gotten up to them. and so the idea was that the technology and the prestige of being a leader in this technology was very, very important. and i think it is, if you want to be a leader in the world. and it wasn't until the gemini flights started to go, where we started to do rendezvous and e.v.a. and finally working up to the end of the gemini program that we were catching up with them. and, of course, the epitome was apollo 8 going to the moon. and we know now, of course, from all discussions with the russians, that they were very active in a lunar program, and that they had almost decided to send two people in circumnavigating the moon, but they were very conservative,

too. they had sent two flights around the moon in 1968, and, of course, we had information about that, and that's why that decision was made for us to go to the moon. and we lost, and while they were deciding whether to send two cosmonauts on a proton to also circumnavigate the moon. >> was that the reason why it was sort of kept a secret, your flight, until a few weeks before it happened? >> no, i think it was kept a secret for a good reason, because the flight plan generated it in houston and it had to go up and be approved by the nasa headquarters and then by president johnson. but i don't think we fully realize often enough the impact that president johnson had on the space program. president kennedy -- it's like the difference between us and the ground crew, we got all the credit for it. but president johnson as head

of the space council really brought the lunar flight forward. and he had a wonderful relationship with another giant who is now dead, and that's jim west, the administrator of nasa. and he didn't run -- he didn't try to direct it. he had so much trust in webb. and webb picked the leaders, like kraft, so it was a wonderful, wonderful management . i've often thought if the defense department would have had webb instead of mcnamara, they would have been a hell of a lot better off. [laughter] but we were very, very fortunate to have president johnson and jim webb at the top, because they listened to the -- they picked the people who knew what they were doing, then they listened to them. i'm sure it didn't take 17 phone calls for them to launch apollo eight. >> but the other criteria, though, frank, was the fact that gemini or apollo 7 had to be successful. >> well, that was true all the

way along. >> and the earth orbital flight to make sure the command module was ready, since we didn't have a lunar model. once that final test was done, then the decision was made for 8 to go to the moon. >> were you confident from the very beginning that it was all going to work? >> well, personally, i had a lot of confidence in nasa, not just j.s.e., but the people designing the boosters, the aerospace industry. frank put a lot of time in getting apollo kind of back on the track, along with the chris kraft and his team after the fire. so i had a lot of confidence, but i didn't think it was a slam-dunk. i frankly thought that, well, there's probably 1/3 chance of a totally successful mission. there's probably a 1/3 chance of an apollo 13 mission, where you went, but you didn't accomplish the goal, and there was a 1/3 chance that you didn't come back. but, as i said, this was -- the cold war was alive and well.

you can't really understand apollo without putting it into the context of the cold war, which in retrospect is a little strange from these years. but as a military officer i thought that was pretty good odds. we had our colleagues being shot down in vietnam without any glory. so i didn't think it was totally safe, but i had the confidence that it was going to be as good as it could be. but they had no sooner lit off these engines -- now, keep in mind that we had simulator training. these people are a little masochistic in the kinds of things they thought about and how to screw things up. of course, we were on the ground. and, boy, you had 16 problems going at once. but you simulated. as far as i knew when i was sitting there waiting for the ignition, well, we've covered everything, we've done launch abort, and frank knows when to twist the handle if he has to. and that thing no sooner lit off, but it shook so hard and

it made so much noise, which we hadn't simulated at all, and i thought, oh, shucks, we ruined this mission. frank was smart enough to take his hand off the abort handle, because, i mean, literally i felt like i was a rat in the jaws of a big terrier just being shook back and forth. >> you know, we compressed into four months, really, the training. it normally takes about 18 months. bill was confident with the systems, knew everything about it. jim was the navigator and i started with the overall re-entry. and i have complete confidence in these two people. they're wonderful. i couldn't have had a better crew than jim and bill. i had complete confidence in the ground. i'm not kidding you. i really did. and as a matter of fact, on apollo 7 we would have blown it, because i wanted to come back early because i was convinced that -- not apollo 7, gemini 7, because i was

convinced that the fuel cells weren't going to work. chris got on the radio and said we've simulated it, so they're going to work. and so i went to sleep. i had that kind of confidence. my main concern was that somehow the crew would screw up. >> you mean those two. >> no, the three of us. >> really. >> i didn't want to be the guy that aborted when we didn't have to, you know. >> tell them about the handle, the launch handle. >> the handle, you sit over here. and if you turn it outbound, you're gone. >> what do you mean? tell me how that worked. >> well, you had a 70,000-pound -- >> you only use that on a launch phase. if the rocket catches on fire and there's an abort handle that the commander can throw and the rocket takes the spacecraft off and plunks it into the ocean. but the g-force is about 20 g's. you don't want to do that. >> well, i wanted us to do a perfect mission. i had confidence.

and it turned out that way. i didn't have any worry about anybody else. >> it really was almost a perfect mission. >> almost it was a perfect -- element? it was a perfect mission. >> i was disappointed. because the people on the grounds and the engineers that made apollo so perfect that i couldn't demonstrate what a great guy i was at fixing things. [laughter] >> jim, my view is being selected. and, of course, i wasn't on that mission to begin with. mike collins was the third person on the original crew of apollo 8 at that time. i think it was called 8 at that time, or maybe it was 9 at the time, i forget. and then mike had a medical problem, so i replaced him. so i was sort of the "oddball" guy out. but when the decision was made to go to the moon, personally i was elated. because i was not looking forward to another earth orbital flight with frank borman. [laughter]

you see, i spent 14 days with this gentleman. [laughter] >> they came back engaged. [laughter] that's ok today, but -- >> the way things are now, we could get married. [laughter] >> where do i go from here? [laughter] >> don't ask. >> what they're referring to, the gemini flights were the preoccursors to apollo. they were very small, half the size of a volkswagen. and they flew -- it was a 14-day mission, right? >> yeah. >> and all of those gemini flights were, again, a steppingstone to apollo and mostly it was involved in developing rendezvous techniques, because we knew at that point that there was going to have to be rendezvous -- at

that point there had been a decision to do lunar rendezvous rather than earth rendezvous. it was that experience that made it a success. >> now, let's keep going through the flight here. you've gotten through launch. you're the rat caught in the can over there. you get into earth orbit and begin to check out the systems and the third stage of the saturn must then fire to send owe a trajectory to the moon. the last time this was tried it didn't fire. what was going through your mind there at the lead-up to that and tell us how that went. >> i was focused on it working. i didn't even think about it not working. i just figured it was going to work. but with that thrust and looking at the watch and it just kept burning and burning.

a equals -- >> we were going up and up and up, you know -- >> well, you didn't worry about it not lighting up, did you? >> no. >> where we worried about lighting off was, number one, slowing down to be captured by the moon and then nine orbits or 10 orbits later lighting the maneuvering engine to get away from the moon, to get out of lunar orbit. >> you're getting ahead of the story. if it didn't light, we could come back. >> right. >> we were still in the earth's orbit. >> and that, as i recall, guys, it was a quiet, smooth burn, no pogo, no nothing. a steady push. you're moving with a slight g-force and the numbers were the velocity. >> ok. after -- this maneuver was called translunar injection. nasa had these wonderful acronyms for absolutely everything. i always felt apply job was a

simultaneous translator. i'd listen to nasa and supposedly english came out of my mouth. some days it did, some days it didn't. you've now done something that no man has ever done, the three of you. you've broken the gravity of the earth and are moving to another celestial body and she was quoting tom brokaw a while ago saying you can look out the window and see -- what was it like to look out the window and see the earth gradually getting smaller and smaller and smaller and knowing that everybody was there? >> you could actually -- the first time we turned around, we were about 20,000 miles out, i think, and it was kind of like when you're a kid in the third grade and you're watching the clock. you couldn't see it move, but if you looked away and looked back, it got a little smaller. we were a long way out. we knew we were moving. >> to me it looked like --

looking at the earth when we had that initial velocity was like an automobile going into a tunnel and looking out the back window and seeing the entrance get smaller and smaller and smaller as we went down through the tunnel. very similar. because we had suddenly -- our velocity was very great at that particular time. it slowed down as we went out. >> how fast were you going at that point? >> probably around 23,500, 24,000 miles an hour. >> whew. >> not quite escape velocity. >> now comes a period of quiet 'tude. you've got two days with not much to do. >> we might as well get it done right now. i got motion sick and puked. [laughter] >> frank, we weren't going to say anything. >> you know, i think now, nasa

was thinking of cancelling the mission. i would have told you, we would have had radio failure. if you ever sent that up, chris, no way. but i got over it in a hurry, and i thought it was clearly -- although i didn't think so at the time, because i had flown two weeks in gemini and never been sick, and never got sick on an airplane except when i was hung over. [laughter] so i don't really believe -- i think it was the motion sickness. >> i convinced frank that we ought to give the ground some kind of -- >> yeah, it was your fault. >> -- some kind of signal. after i had to bat all that stuff away. [laughter] but we had a tape-recorder that the ground could command on on a private channel. because everything we said went out to the world. so, frank, i got him on the tape-recorder and i figured -- and i made some comment about,

well, you guys, maybe you'll check the tape sometime. i don't know where chuck barry was. maybe he was sound asleep. but about eight hours later all hell broke loose. they finally listened to the tape-recorder. by this time frank had recovered. so thank god they didn't cancel the flight. >> no, we weren't going to cancel. [laughter] we would have shut down the radio. because we knew what happened. >> no comprendo. [laughter] >> this is another thing they never told us journalists. we never knew about this until many years later. >> you mentioned dr. barry. dr. chuck barry was there, the astronaut physician for many, many years who's here tonight. that motion sickness didn't only happen to you, it happened to some other people and there's no predicting it is my understanding. it was not like air sickness, was it? >> i don't know anything about it. i just got nauseated and i thought it was because i had

taken a seconal, which was a sleeping -- i never take pills and i had taken one that night. i thought that's what did it. but i believe now i probably had motion sickness. >> i think most of the astronauts even today on the shuttle for the first six hours, if you're not careful, if you start moving sideways and things like that, you can get nauseous. so -- >> you and bill both said you felt queasy. >> when i got out of the seat for the first time -- my job was to collect the helmets. i thought i'll do a little nip-up. i did two of them and said i'm laying down and i'm not going to move my head. >> did you get sick on 13? >> no, surprisingly, i did not. but on 8, when i first got out, because i had to do some work, too, i felt a little nauseous. but i kept my head straight ahead. >> that was co2. >> that way you grin and bear it and your stomach gets used to it. most people, your stomach gets used to it.

>> weightless is a much different feeling than motion sickness, though, isn't it? this is something that only a few guys in the world and women have been able to experience. >> it's comfortable. it's comfortable. >> it's lethargic. >> explain that. >> well, i mean, you don't have the weight of moving around. i mean, you can do things with the push of your finger. and once you get used to the zero gravity, there is no up or down, really. you know, it depends on your own orientation with respect to inside the spacecraft. so actually, it's a nice environment. i think that anybody here could go out and be in zero gravity. it's coming back to earth that is the strenuous part of space flight. >> well, initially your heart is used to pumping blood from your feet to your head while you're walking around. so at least for me, my ears were pounding. the lobbies, i could feel it.

it -- the lobes, i could feel it, it wasn't that comfortable. after a while i thought why am i doing this? and after about two days it quit doing it. when i got on that aircraft carrier after 6 1/2 days in space, not like six months like these space station people do, i had a hard time getting up to the ladder to shake the admiral's hand. my heart started banging away. zero g is comfortable but it's like laying in bed for a long time. now they exercise and so it's comfortable, but it has its disadvantages. >> yeah, i think you have to get a lot -- give a lot of credit to people that are on the space station that stay up there that long and come back. there's no way in god's green earth you could get me up there for as long as those guys. [laughter] and, you know, you can only look out the window and say ooh and aah so long. [laughter]

issue -- >> i brought it up for you. >> now we come to a very interesting point in the flight -- you are coming to the moon, you have to fired into the but you into lunar orbit -- you have to fire into the engine to put you into lunar orbit, you cannot see anything, you are in the dark, you are out of contact with the grounds. what is going on there and what is going on in your mind? >> we are going backwards to the moon, and the simulator guys will remember that fact was psychotic -- excuse me, concerned. [laughter]

concerned about the so-called los, loss of signal time, because he rightly determined that if the people on the ground worse but enough to know when the spacecraft would go -- people on the ground were smart enough to know when the spacecraft would go behind the moon, they were smart enough to know we would not hit it on the backside. during all of the simulations -- "make sure you got that time now." -- -- i think -- they mark to the time up. he was checking the clock. we came up and sure enough, the radio went dead right at that instant. frank said, "boy, that is our belief." icet, "frank, those are not our bodies there. it will cut that radio off." [laughter]

he will -- he called me a three-letter word abbreviation. >> the level was amazingly accurate. although we depended and use the radar for navigation, we were pretty sure we were on track. >> and that is true. as are a matter of -- as a matter of fact, it worked perfectly. the time did stop when we said it was going to. the communication was shut off at the proper time the engine, of course, was controlled by the computer. we had the right town down. we were behind the moon, so the ground had no idea what we were doing. the engine lipscomb as -- the engine lit, and as it slowed us

down, he saw the readouts on the computer, and i read off the orbit around the moon. it was just where we wanted to be. the engine work perfectly. >> how were you navigating at that point? >> a lot of what i had to do was keep the gyros -- i had to take sightings on the stars. i will admit i don't think i did, too. >> if you don't, i will. [laughter] >> i want had a lot of the past. -- i want to head him off at the past. >> he will tell his version and i will tell my. >> we had to do the work all the time, and the way i did it was down at the computer, and the computer was, by today's standards, a very elementary, but in those days, it was a

great little device. i would go into the computer, and i would tell the computer that i wanted to site on a start. i went in there, and there were 37 of them, i'd pick number of them to decide on. it was behind the work force of our moon, it would come up and say, "-- if it were be hind and the earth or the sun rhythm, it would come up and say, "a, a dummy, he cannot do that when doctors i could punch a button and it will report to the ankles of the time. i did this with three stars. it was great. we were transferring this

information down to the ground so that we could see how well this whole system was working. i got so that i was playing it almost like a pianist playing a stine way. the information was coming down very accurate. on the way home, i got too fast. i was playing with that thinking that i was very great at doing this job. i went in and punched to the wrong button. instead of saying that i wanted to align the laptop, i punched the button that told the computer and the guidance system was back -- that we were back at the launch pad ready to take off. [laughter] it went zap, and everything went blank, and we lost all of our attitude reference, with respect to the celestial sphere. these guys were having fits, wondering when we were ever going to get back. >> frank was sleeping. i was on watch. i kind of just is waiting there.

suddenly, the level goes oops. [laughter] coincidently, the attitude reference ball starts to move. i had been the cap-com and i was kind primed to stuck thrusters. but with a deadly, about the time he said troops, -- coincidentally, another time -- around the time he said oops, thruster fire. the ball was moving once i did a -- the light on the dust -- the light was going the wrong way. i used to the array of light in the spacecraft to study it out. by that time, frank was getting a lot of help. [laughter] >> we had never planned --

>> only about three hours until reentry, too. >> we never planned to induce the attitude reference on apollo. there was a backup procedure. i went to the window to manually get the spacecraft around, and looked at the start and said, "ok, is that regulus?" >> there was a lot like enduring crystals floating with us around home. >> it was amazing, because jim could reorient the platform. those were platforms designed mit -- designed at mit, and the initial thought was that we would have a tough -- old plant. have it of the whole time. -- the initial thought was that we would have it out of the whole time. i didn't like that, based on my

experience. if you have something running, even allowed. -- have something running, the it alone. i wrote a letter saying that we should let it run. i got a letter back from mit, two pages -- i wish i kept the daunting -- kept the darn thing -- describing all the reasons. "p.s., if i were running on this mission, i would let the damn thing run, too." [laughter] [applause] you don't understand how close he came to buying the farm on 13, too. >> is oops a prelude to

"houston, we have a problem"? [laughter] now for the most interesting times of the flight. you are now in a safe orbit around the moon. it might not have been the first time when you saw the earth rise. was that like, that wonderful picture we see over here? >> we were on the third revolution. we have been going backwards and upside down. we did not see it for the first two or three revolutions. i think we had something burned in the meantime. i was busy taking pictures in the backside of the moon. the detailed photographic plan

had nothing about taking pictures of the earth. as the spacecraft came around, and the appeared to be rising, actually -- the earth appeared to be rising, actually, frank saw it, i saw it. he started screaming to throw him a camera. finally, i turned this big camera around, and just started snapping pictures, unfortunately, one of them was chosen to be the -- and unfortunately, one of them was chosen by nasa to be the pick -- and fortunately, one of them was chosen by nasa to be the picture. >> that is not the complete story. [laughter] "that is not in the flight plan at." isn't that true? >> no. [laughter]