brown's talk about the national governors' association annual meeting in the u.s. economy. washington journal is next. . the numbers to call, 202-737-

0002 for democrats, 202-737- 0001 for republicans. cynosurplease make sure when yol in, if you have called in in the last 30 days, give others a chance to call in this morning. here is what the "houston chronicle" looked like 40 years ago. this was the headline -- armstrong and aldrin take one small step for man on the moon. we can look at today's "houston chronicle." this headline courtesy of the newseum. "final steps toward one giant leap. this is the front page this morning of "the houston chronicle." buzz aldrin and several other apollo astronauts as well. before we get your comments on the future of space travel, buzz

aldrin and michael collins and kneel all strong were -- neil armstrong worked at the air and space museum. >> i believe that bold achievements in space not only reflect our country's greatness, but beckon us to discoveries that can improve our lives on earth. i also believe that national leadership and a coming together of the american people are the ingredients that make overwhelming obstacles possible. this was held progress was achieved 40 years ago -- this was held progress was achieved 40 years ago. this is how we can -- this was how progress was achieved 40 years ago. what a great people and a great nation can do if we work hard, work together, and have strong leaders with vision and determination.

that is what apollo 11 means to us today, to me today. host: one of the apollo 11 astronauts, buzz aldrin, there yesterday at the air and space museum. we spend this first half-hour asking you about the future of space travel. a look at the front page of "the denver post." they have a look, a picture of the reunion of the astronauts yesterday at the air and space museum. here is the front page of "the washington times." " the next giant leap is mars." here is more of what he had to say yesterday. "i believe we deserve more than footprints on the moon. apollo levin is a symbol of what a great people in a great nation can do if we were together. we need to realize the dream of exploration and determination. speaking at the smithsonian institution air and space

museum. that is the front page of "the washington times." the astronauts to it will be meeting with president obama, the apollo 11 crew do at the white house to be honored by president barack obama. that will be early this afternoon. this is just on our independent line. welcome. jeff, go ahead. goldsboro, north carolina, are you there? caller: hi, i would like to comment on the few things going on with the international space station. they are growing protein crystals that will allow us to have new drugs that will combat many diseases. antibiotics growing and more pure and larger and have a greater yield, and we do not know why that is. host: jeff, it sounds like you keep an eye on the space program. where are you reading this? caller: i keep track on the

internet. i also have subscriptions to magazines. host: thanks for your call this morning. a special section which in number of newspapers are providing this morning and throughout the last couple of weeks. this is "the washington times," "man on the move." "a giant leap is achieved by a nation in discord." some other front-page news this morning, from "the philadelphia inquirer." a couple of stories about health care and about the stimulus. this one on stimulus spending. "pennsylvania trails others in stimulus spending," "budget wrangling has hindered plans while other states have moved ahead." the other headline this morning in "the philadelphia inquirer." "obama to lead push on health." "aggressive new strategy puts him out in front in efforts to ratchet up the pressure on lawmakers." "senior white house aides

promise an aggressive public and private schedule for obama as he presses his case for reform, including a news conference wednesday, a trip to cleveland, and heavy use of internet video to broadcast his message beyond traditional media." 202-737-0002 for democrats, 202- 737-0001 for republicans, an independents and others, 202- 628-0205. this 40th anniversary of ti-hua common. this is the outlook section from -- of the walk on the moon. and number of opinions yesterday on space travel. this is yesterday's front page of the "post." you're looking right now at the front page of "the washington times." the front page of the outlook section of "the washington post" from yesterday morning. the front page of "usa today," a

story about dover air force base and its role in the wars in iraq and afghanistan as t. a photograph on the front page of "usa today" on one of the recent funerals, the arrival of one of the remains of a soldier killed in iraq. this front-page story talks about the nation approaching a combined total of 5000 military deaths in iraq with the pace of u.s. casualties declining. and in afghanistan, where it is rising. all the remains have come through this air base, the site of the nation's largest mortuary. journalists since april have been permitted to cover what the military calls dignified transfers of bodies." that is the front page from "usa today." the governor's conference winds up in biloxi, mississippi. we will talk to the governors of

delaware, s.d., and jim douglas, the governor of vermont. this is the science times f section from "the new york times." this is a picture of folks looking at the list of of the apollo 11 mission back in 1969. to north palm beach florida, the morning on our independent line. caller: good morning. as far as they struggle goes, i believe there are a lot of great technical advances that we can learn from traveling in space, but i really think we have learned enough and if we are going to look for life out there, we cannot travel a distance we have to find intelligent life out there. it is impossible and we already know that. and that life has already found us, so i think it is pointless to be spending so much money on space when there is so much on this earth that we have to find out about.

i do love technology in space, but i think we have enough for now and i think we need to focus on more important things. host: do you know anybody involved in the space program in florida? caller: yes, i do. host: in what capacity? caller: things that have to be built coming getting contracts from the type of work. host: as the space program maintain the economy on the coast of florida? caller: yes, because florida is a great deal of debt, so you can imagine that with everything else here, disneyland and tourism and oranges and all the other great things that florida has for its economy, being in so much debt, i think we have been dumping a lot of money into nothing, and the continuing of it would be ridiculous because there is no point in it. host: think of recall. good morning to john on a republican line.

john, are you there? grosse pointe, michigan, go ahead. caller: i think the space station to me has always been a good idea. mars, i do not understand why we are going there. and our own oceans, 7/8 of our planet now, i believe we have only inspected or research to a very small percentage of our oceans and seems like there is more to be gained by that been going to mars. host: thank you for your call this month. here is a photograph from the book section of "the wall street journal." "when the eagle has landed." the apollo 11 flight to the moon still astonishes. again, we are covering and then today at the newseum. you will also see the program that we cover yesterday, that featured buzz aldrin, michael

collins, and neil all strong -- neil armstrong. go ahead. caller: what the american people really need right now -- i mean, i am for the space program in better times. i think we should continue the space " gramm to a limited degree. but what the american people need right now is health care. all the money that we spent for the war in iraq, everybody was waiting to go to war and spend all this money to fight the iraqis who did nothing to us. but when it comes to health care, no one wants to do anything for the american people. the american people need help, so we need take some of this money and tried to get the american people under feet, then maybe we can look at spending money to do looking at the world. host: how would you count on the arguments of folks who say during the '60s when we had money going to the war in vietnam, that we spent on the space program, and the end result of some of that, obviously beyond the landing on

the moon and just the space program, improvements in the i.t. industry, and dances in i.t. and other aerospace advances in the i.t. and other aerospace technology as well? caller: right now the american people are in crisis and we need to take care of this crisis. i am not against the space program, but it is amazing to me that we can find money for everything except when it comes to the american people. we can help everybody in the world and people in other worlds, but we cannot help the american people when we need help. host: asheville, north carolina, good morning. what is your name? caller: mike rounds asheville, north carolina. i totally agree with the guy before me. i was listening to -- we have given the space agency $40 billion, and we really do not know whether we went to the moon

or not. that concerns me greatly. host: you are saying we do not know if we went to the moon? you do not believe that we went to the moon? caller: i do not know. i would like to go to that midway's -- that the west's military base 51 and let's find out. host: inside "usa today" this morning, in their middle section on walter cronkite. "newsman's enthusiasm for technology was contagious," "one of the most famous moments in the storied career of walter cronkite, 92, who died friday, came with the apollo landing on july 20, 1969. wally, say something, i am speechless," the cbs anchor man said to his landing co-host,

dropping his glasses and famous composer to read his face after the tense final moments of the landing. two indiana we go. this is bob on our democrats line. good morning. caller: yes, sir. i am for the space program. there is one thing i would like to say, all the money that we spend going to the moon and the technology and the systems that we produced going to the moon, all that has went overseas now, and all the jobs that made it went overseas. i think any more money that we spend on the program, any new product for developments that are made should be spent here in the united states. host: thanks for your call, bob. this is also in "usa today." this is the op-ed cartoon this morning, editorial cartoon with the footprint with walter cronkite's name on it. connecticut, good morning, on our independent line. lisa, hi.

caller: the previous caller talked about traveling to ours is a broad as new technology to cure illnesses on earth? it has been documented that hundreds of thousands of plants and animal species are becoming extinct, and signs admits that many tourists for health problems could have been found in plant and animal life now gone. global warming and overdevelopment is killing off our oceans and life on our planet. yet we're still talking about going to the moon. man made it to the moon, but he missed the boat here on earth. host: about 50 more minutes of your calls on the future of the space program, the future of space travel, more specifically on the look of the apollo lemon astronauts -- the apollo 11 astronauts. neil armstrong, buzz aldrin, and michael collins. this is prior to the takeoff,

and the photograph below it, as i pulled my hand out of iraq, -- out of the way, muzzled and standing on the moon in 1969. -- buzz aldrin standing on the moon in 1969. let's hear from don -- excuse me, ron, in georgia. caller: i believe the money we spend on our space crimprogram s well worth it. if -- i believe we can spend that money right here in america. host: this story, from the associated press, "the white house has been forced to dodge the wide gap between its once upbeat predictions about the economy and today possibly wednesday. the administration plus annual midsummer budget update is sure to show higher deficits and unemployment and slower growth

than projected in president obama's budget in february and update in may, and that could complicate his efforts to get signature health care and global warming proposals through congress. the release of the update usually scheduled for mid july has been put off until the middle of next month, giving rise to speculation the white house is delaying the bad news at least until congress leaves town on its august 7 summer recess. just a reminder that the president holds a press conferences wednesday. here is buzz aldrin writing op- ed this morning in "the washington times," "remembering the day americans walked on the lunar surface." he writes, "in this year of remembered some reflection on my apollo 11 mission, it is time we regain our focus and global space leadership not by inning back the moon again but by winning a mars for america's future. and in the process, make him available to all mankind.

i propose we avoid another costly moon race by fostering a new international partnership to explore and exploit the moon. instead of spending billions on moon rockets, landers, and other hardware, which should open the development of the moon to china, india, and other aspiring space powers." the thoughts of buzz aldrin this morning on july 20. here is missy on our independent life. good morning. missy, go ahead. caller: good morning. my question is, why is it going to take so long between the shuttle program and the next program? i mean, there is going to be a five-year difference in their. why is it five years? as my question, why is going to take so long to move on to the next space vehicle? host: why do you think it is taking so long?

caller: we do not have anyone standing behind them, pushing them, maybe more support from the president and congress would be a good idea. host: here is the front page of "the arizona republic." and look at the anniversary of apollo 11, "and distant tramps." the nasa asu project -- "@ distant triumphs." a couple of headlines on open will be arizona republic." "idaho praise for captured soldier -- idaho prays for captured soldier." the video released over the weekend of the soldier, bowe

bergdahl. "stimulus near for contractors after long wait." to chicago, this is jim on the republican likne. caller: i must say that my thoughts on its future are greatly influence from what we have seen in the past. one of the scientific objectives of the apollo mission was to discover which of the three leading theories for the formation of the moon was the correct theory. as it turned out, the apollo missions showed us that all three theories were actually wrong, and let us to the correct theory that we have at this time. the second point is that in an interview with u.s. news some years back, the ceo of apple at that time had pointed out that were it not for the apollo space

program, we would not even have a silicon valley today. so the technological component of our suppsociety, especially h respect to medical care products has definitely been enhanced by this program, undertaken to make those missions possible. at this point my concern is that with the huge size of the deficit that the space program, the consolation program, which is the successor to the space program commission to the moon, will wind up being slashed because most people did not realize that the nasa budget is only a fraction of a penny, but its visibility seems to make it an easy target. i understand there right now there is a commission that is

reviewing the consolation program as to whether or not to succeed or to continue with the program. so i am really concerned that this mission will be used as an excuse to either scale back or canceled constellation, which will be used as an excuse for canceling or really stretching out the plans that call for the united states to return to the moon as early as 2015 but no later than 2020. host: well, in these days of the president trying to get through all these other spending priorities -- you heard some previous caller is talking about those parties -- how do you make those happen? and also do what you are calling for, and additional exploration of the moon and elsewhere. caller: is all part of, with respect to the expiration of space, there have been a number

of studies and conferences that touch on the longer-term energy solution, in fact one of the power companies in california recently led a contract relevant to this, and that is the use of space solar power as a long-term energy solution, and i would say that that is probably not a near term solution. but the fact that the space exploration program gets such a vanishingly small amount of the u.s. budget currently, and the fact that the nature of the research that goes into supporting the space program is so multi disciplinary in terms of into medical technology, energy technology, environmental studies, that to cut it, even to just zero out the nasa budget, is not going to solve the health-care problem. it is not going to solve the

energy problem. i find it amazing at a time when so many of our political leaders are saying that our students must be pursuing an education in science and engineering to further the economy of our country and our ability to compete globally that you would want to cancel out the most visible program. host: thank you for your input this morning. first we want to show your comments yesterday, buzz aldrin at the air and space museum in washington, some of its stock on continuing space travel. >> i believe we do deserve a little bit more than footprints on the moon, and i believe that there is a timeline. there are many of them, but i believe we can do that. yes, we can.

hostsince neil, mike, and i traveled across with a peaceful race, it is an honor and privilege to be part of apollo 11 and the entire apollo program. tonight he may well ask, what did mean -- tonight you may well ask, what did it mean that america was first on the moon? and what can we do to build upon that long ago achievement? apollo 11 was about exploration, about taking risks for a great reward in science and engineering, about setting up an ambitious goal before the world, and then finding the political will and the national means to achieve it. host: buzz aldrin yesterday at the air and space museum.

this is the front page of "the miami herald." they have a look at the day by day analysis or a timeline of the flight, july 16 lifting off, all the way through their splashdown, return to earth, on july 24. good morning to henderson, nevada. this is jon on our democrats like. caller: i want to make a comment. i think the ocean needs to be explored. the technology going on in the see right now is the heat transfusion, and gendering propulsion, generating electricity from that. the research on that right now is very interesting. the other thing is mars. from what i understand, there is going to be kind of a race to mars because the substance found on the mars' surface, they will use as a lining for nuclear plants because it reflects the

heat and is durable. what happens in nuclear facilities is that the heat destroys the inner lining of the plant, and they will use this material as a lining. host: when you say a race for march, when other nations are capable of going there? caller: asia and india, from what i understand. host: thank you. good morning to bob, on our independent line, massachusetts. caller: i am going to keep it simple here. maybe we should learn to live oumore successfully come peaceably, and productively on this planet before going off to mars. host: bob, were you around in 1969 for the landing? caller: yeah, i was. host: tell me what your thoughts were on that day, recalling 1969. caller: well, i remember them

hitting a golf ball, which seemed a little bit ludicrous. we play golf here, so i just think there's a whole lot of stuff that needs to be done here -- climate change, the oceans, pollution, peace we need to pay more attention to our more humanistic and naturalistic tendencies rather than heading off into space looking for some special whatever, i do not know. host: this is the front page of the state newspaper in south carolina -- "all eyes on the moon." a picture of neil armstrong descending the winter model on july 20, 1969. tommy, a republican caller, good morning. caller: how are you doing? thank you for taking my call. the headline should become "where is our governor now?" i am sorry, but i was a child back when the moon landing to place. it was great, it was fantastic.

i also remember black people in the south being washed off the street by fire hoses. leaders were being assassinated, martin luther king was killed. we're still having all these problems and do i mean, i enjoy the space program, i enjoy what it did, but when are we going to move on? like the previous caller said, when are we going to move on and solve our own problems? thank you for a time. host: this is the style section of "the washington post" this morning, focusing on neil armstrong, the first man to walk on the moon stoically backpedals on earth. "40 years ago today, neil armstrong became the most famous man on the planet by taking a short walk off of it. since then he has tried to live with that fact and also tried to live it down." to smyrna -- are you from

smyrna, georgia? tennessee, excuse me. go ahead. caller: i heard you ask the caller where he was when -- i happened to be walking guard duty that day on top of the barracks. i was into camp in the navy on july 16, and i just happened -- i was in boot camp in the navy on july 16, 50 miles away from cape kennedy. i saw the little speck of light as it headed up words. host: so you actually saw the liftoff on july 16? caller: yes, sir, i did. i felt like i was going to miss it because everybody was inside. excuse me, i stuttered. watching it on tv. but because i was stuff on the

roof walking guard duty, i managed to see it, and i thought that was interesting. you know, i just want to say that we need to turn to god in this time that we are in, and i just want to say that god is love. host: arnold, thank you for recall. thank you for all your calls on this 40th anniversary of the moon landing. i want to turn our attention to health care next. the health care reporter for politico, the front page this morning, good morning, carried off brown. guest: sending a message that they are not happy about the government insurance plan, and sending a broader, larger signal, which is money to spend,

and is pending on how the debate plays out, they can use it in one way or another. so that is a key voice that is being added to the debate this week. as you see, a lot more groups stepping in. a lot of democrats, democratic ads. and it is the national -- the natural progression because we're entering a key point in the debate. everybody wants to have their say before it is too late. host: is just the latest sign that the health-care debate is about to get a lot noisier as groups decide they can no longer stay on the sidelines, complicating congressional negotiations at the point when president barack obama's plans for getting this bill through are in greatest doubt." tell us about the complications that outside voice is bring into this discussion. guest: for most of the winter and spring, and the early part of the summer, max baucus was very successful in encouraging

groups not to litigate the issue beyond outside private negotiating tables, the room, and keep their powder dry and not develop ads because he argued that as soon as you go on the airwaves, it really makes things more difficult, complicating matters for the people in the room trying to negotiate. the same goes for congress at large when you start seeing ads. voters start weighing in, and that is the way things work. but to a certain extent, lawmakers, senators, and even the president, have this desire to not have that distraction, and they were successful for a long while, and a lot of groups honored that, groups that were in the room with max baucus and ted kennedy, by not talking much about what was going on inside the room, outside the room, complaining about what they have seen because they were asked

quietly not to. that is changing as you reach the home stretch, and people are deciding they can i really stay quiet for much longer. it is time to weigh in. host: 8 could be argued, too, that congress' budget chief, and his cost proposal so far made the noise level increase late last week. guest: absolutely. when you have the congressional budget of this way and in the way the director has, -- when you have the congressional budget office way in the way the director has, the budget director is very powerful in changing the debate, but as you just said, at the cbo chief is probably got a lot of the discussions are now. host: tell us a little bit about the timetable. two of the three house

committees have finished work on a. the senate health committee has finished their work on it. guest: the senate finance committee wrapped up last week without an agreement. it will continue early this week. they have to come back next week, and now that this august timeline seems to be gone, there seems to be pressure on the finance committee to get a markup done, all before the august recess. that will still be a big challenge. there are only three weeks left. again, everybody is waiting for the senate finance committee, and you will see the energy and commerce committee wrapped up its, from henry waxman's perspective, wrap up this week. host: you noted much significant change on any of the key major -- do you notice much

significant change any the key members in the last couple of weeks? guest: i follow the senate more closely, and since there is not a bill from the senate finance committee, a lot of them have not had to come out one way or another because those who were on defense still need to see a bill. host: 202-737-000carrie budoff n writing for "the political." we're going to ask you on your thoughts for the next 25 minutes or so. as your position changed as the health care debate continues. 202-737-0002 for democrats. 202-737-0001 for republicans. independents and others, 202- 628-0205. here is the front page of "the politico" this morning. their story on the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi. "speaker wants higher trigger

for health care tax." "the bill now moving through the house would raise taxes for individuals with annual adjusted gross incomes of $280,000 for families that make $350 or more. i would like to see it go higher than it is pelosi said on friday. the speaker would like the trigger raised to $500,000 for individuals and $1 million for families." a question from the front page of "the washington post," as they come out with a poll on how president obama is doing on a number of issues. the headline is "poll shows obama slipping on key issues." we wanted to show you how the support for the president on health care has gone down a notch in the last couple of weeks. approval rating falls below 15%. this morning in "the washington post." here is a look at the chart here.

"do you approve of the way barack obama is handling health care?" in april, 57% approval, in june, 53%, approval al. also, "who you trust to do a better job handling health care reform?" obama, 54%, down 1% in june. cecile, and port st. joe, florida. caller: i am for health care reform, but the way they are going about it, they are just shoving this thing through. nobody is looking at it, just like the way they have done all the other legislation. i support barack obama, but right now i really cannot see supporting democrats or republicans. we need a third party, somebody

in there -- basically the republicans are doing it just because the democrats want it. democrats are just going to shove it in the republicans faces. nobody is paying attention to what they are passing. we need to slow down and at least read these bills before they show them through and put us in debt for the next thousand years. host: thank you for your call. to mentor, ohio, sheila, on a republican line. caller: thank you. i am floor that the woman you just had on the phone said that citizens should not call up their representatives. i have called by representatives

all the time. host: who is your representative, sheila? caller: laterette. host: and what have you told the representative or his aides? caller: i have told him not to move this health care through so fast, that they should read it, that they should put it up for debate for a long time, although i know it is impossible with pelosi. host: your views agree with the republican leader of the senate, mitch mcconnell. he was on "meet the press" yesterday with david gregory. here is what he had to say. >> is the president going to get a bill by the house and senate by the august recess?

>> well, i do not think he should get a particular bills that we have seen because they are not the right way to go. when is going on here is perfectly clear, it is the same kind of rush and spend a strategy that we saw on the stimulus bill. we're going to have a deficit this year of $1.80 trillion, bigger than the last five years combined. the past budget puts us on the path to double the national debt in the past five years, tripoli in 2010, and here comes health care on top of it. -- tripled it in 2010. even if you look at the pay-for s, it is a law on the backs of individuals and small businesses. this should not pass any point before later in the year. we need to come up with a truly bipartisan proposal. host: minority leader mitch mcconnell yesterday on "meet

the press. this is sam on our democrats line. caller: the republicans complain about how expensive this is going to be. no one wants to calculate or talk about what unpaid medical expenses are costing us now, people who do not have insurance going to the emergency room and that is essentially passed down to us. but that is not really calculated and compared to the cost of what it would cost if we went to the single-payer health care plan. that is the most important thing i want to say. --, i am nervous. the republicans also talk about this being the best health-care system in the world. from long ago, that has not been true. in my business, i do with a lot of foreigners, canadians, french people, europeans, and not one of them complains about their

health care system. they all love their health care system. they think we are crazy. we also have the highest infant mortality rate of any industrialized nation in the world. we also have the highest obesity rate. we have a lot more horror stories about insurance companies come in between our health care and our doctors than some silly things like, getting the doctor of your choice so that you will get the expensive part kate -- and expensive heart surgery that you need. i am getting sick of it. host: betty, are independent line, from jacksonville. hi. caller: i am against the bills' passing on health care. i think the government has its hands enough in our business. but the other reason why -- i

get a shot once a week the cost over $400. i cannot get that shot if it goes to the government. if they say you can have the shot, i go ahead and get it. its coat is this through medicare, betty? -- host: is this through medicare, betty? caller: yes, this is their medicare. i think that they control enough. if they want to do something, why don't they make something for people that do not have insurance and take care of it that way? i do not want to see my health insurance -- i would like to see a breach put on it, i mean, the rates on the insurance company. host: think a fair call. about 15 minutes worth of calls. if your position has changed and health care reform, today is

july 20, 2009, the six-month mark for the president's tenure. from the "new york daily news" this morning, "challenges for the next six months: what nervous democrats into line and pass health care reform by year's end. keep iraq troop withdrawal on schedule with a minimum of violence and u.s. casualties. show progress in afghanistan, where the new troop buildup has made it obama's war. maneuver the house-past energy bill through a balky senate this fall. we in global support for sanctions on north korea and iran to stop their nuclear weapons programs. focus on health care for the

next 15 minutes or so. richmond, virginia, good morning to brandon, democratic collar. caller: could morning. host: brandon, make sure you turn down your television, ok? caller: ok. well, i was against the bill at first because i thought was going to cost too much money. but then if we do not get it, that will be like people -- you know -- is " good morning to jim's on our republic . hi. caller: this is the first, have been able to get through. when i am afraid of, the promises mr. obama is making are certainly unreal. in tennessee, our care was pushed through the in the middle 1990's by hilary's plan. it was pushed through the quarter, the democratic --

tencare has almost bankrupted tennessee. it is almost 30% of our budget. so far i have not seen details on what the new health-care plan will do. what with as he is any health care plan that comes through, government leaders should work under the same rules and regulations. i do notice that you mentioned nancy pelosi. i was reading an article about that. that is her normal stance, pitting the rich against the poor. but i am definitely against this rush to stick something on us that is going to be very disastrous. host: james, thank you for your debut col. i hope you call back on that issue of who will pay for it. "democrats' new worry: their own

rich voters." "aid group of democrats elected in recent years from some of the country's richest congressional districts have emerged as a stumbling block to raising taxes on the wealthy to pay for president barack obama's ambitious health-care overhaul just as the plan has begun to meet increasing resistance over its cost. friday, two freshmen representatives joined republicans to vote against mr obama's top party health-care overhaul when it faced a vote in the house education and labor committee. one reason was it one percentage point surtax on couples earning between $350,000.500000 dollars, gradually increasing to 5.4 percentage points on earnings more than $1 million to pay for it. the bill passed the committee anyway, but if the number of democratic defectors grows, it could pose a serious obstacle for the president." that is from "the wall street

journal" this morning. annapolis is next, ed, on our independent line. caller: good morning. i would like to bring up that a friend of mine has basically a growth on her face, asked where she should go. i said there is a clinic over the way. she went in, was treated, they exercised the thing, the total cost was $80. host: you said it was a dutch colony? caller: dutch colony, st. martin. i had a similar thing. i waited two months, when in, and the bill was over $2,000. absolutely ridiculous. quite frankly, we need to cover everybody in the country because of the possibility of a pandemic. we have got to catch any kind of

infectious disease as early as possible. otherwise, we are going to have major problems. thirdly, have they included the decrease in cost that we're going to have to pay to the insurance companies if we have got a single provider? yes, the increase in taxes, but if you compare to what i am paying on health insurance costs, it may not be bad. host: here is a call on -- here's a comment on twitter.com. taking steps to live healthier, get off the couch, and lose weight. eight tweet -- a tweaet from scott. the morning, on our republican line. caller: good morning. host: welcome. caller: i am very much against

this program. i do not believe it is the government house business to do our health care. i think it is our own private business. host: andrea, how do you take care of health care? what interested you have? caller: i have social security -- you know, medicare. host: thank you for your call. new york city, this is tatum are democrats on. caller: good morning. i just wanted to make the to go point. first of all, talking about health care. i think it is absolute fantastic, a fabulous. after going through everything that this is all about, which people should be a little more educated about it, with the republicans saying no more government -- well, you know what?

all right, then they should drop their medicare and get regular private insurance because medicare is part of the government. so get rid of medicare, then. host: do you think that is a wise approach for the expansion of medicare as part of this health care proposal? caller: of course. is going to help people. the fact that -- the fact that in private insurance companies -- you should see the lobbying that is going on right now. they are upset that your insurance costs have gone up three under%. this was all about money. this is going to mchale of really, really bad. i just want to make one other point. that was a good question. it is a little off point of what we are talking about, but i really was disappointed with the republicans with the sotomayor confirmation process.

i really felt that they were super, super, super racist. host: tina, did you say super racist? caller: yeah, unfortunately. the thing they do not realize is that spanish people are not going to forget this. they might not care about it, but i was really disappointed in terms of that. host: thank you for your call. following up to her call in new york, "sessions says he is wary of nominee." "the top republican on the senate judiciary committee said yesterday that judge sonia sotomayor's testimony had not settled his concerns about elevating her to the supreme court. i was troubled by a number of things that the nominee had said, a number of the will is she has made." for the in the article, he said

"republicans would seek a judiciary committee vote on july 28, a week past due date sought by democrats. republicans will use the additional time, which committee rules allow them, to review their record, her responses during last week's hearings, and her answers to additional questions pickup that is according to the associated press in "the philadelphia inquirer." also, the obituary of a longtime resident of new york and a writer who had been on c-span and book tv. frank mccorourt died over the weekend at 78. good morning to steve on our independent line. caller: it is sad to see frank mccourt had died. a great gentleman. i have changed my position. actually, looking at it being more urgent. i think the president has put

some real constraints on his own party in terms of keeping these measures neutral, as far as the deficit is concerned. it will be a tough way to come up with this, and now is the time to do this. i think people are not really looking at what the cost of doing nothing is actually coming out to be, and that makes us uncompetitive in world services and goods. so i think that now is the time to move this forward. the president is right. host: how does the president handle the concerns of even those we mention in his own party, democrats concerned about the tax elements to pay for the plan? caller: i think his overall target is correct. they are going to have to make some sacrifices. you know, as much as it hurts, when you have to do is start saying what is the cost of doing things now through emergency

rooms and that sort of thing, and people who are not insured? compare those costs to what this new and more organized plan would be. host: thank you for a recall. here is a quotation from "to politics session" "washington times." "i think the best way to fund health care is for people like myself to pay a little bit more." the white house sticking to health care timetables, the headline. a picture here of what house budget director peter orszag. he was one of the administration folks on the sunday shows, particularly on the state of the union on cnn. as was kathleen sebelius. they talked about the issue of what is called health care rationing. here are the comments from peter orszag and kathleen sebelius. >> there are limits right now. insurance companies pick and choose every day who gets what benefits, who gets what drugs, whether or not you get the procedure your doctor ordered.

this notion that we are somehow going to -- rationing is going on each and every day in the parlor margot. i think what has to happen is we know about 30% of the tests that are done do not make us any health care. we know there are areas in the country where there is a redundancy of medical procedures, people readmitted to the hospital, other areas where there is a high-quality, low- cost care. >> do you think politicians are currently rationing care? insurance companies are currently rationing care? there is no set of decisions at this commission would have that the administration is not -- >> so they would be rationing care? >> no, because we are rationing care for today, and they would not be rationing care in the future. host: peter orszag on fox news sunday. kathleen sebelius with david

gregory. has your position changed on health care reform? caller: yes, it has become even more -- i think we needed past now. and personally, i do not care how it is paid for. have the republicans or anybody really cared in the last four years, spending trillions of dollars in four or five wars? vietnam, south america, honduras, and now this fiasco. also, we spend millions on that. i love the space program. billions upon billions have been spent there. my mother, to change the subject a little bit, the republicans are saying, oh, they will choose your doctor. they do it anyway. my mother has had her insurance

company say we have a different plan now, you have a different doctor to go to now. my mother does not want to switch doctors. these people who have been saying, looking at this bill -- looking at this bill, even fdr wanted a bill. and all the republicans said we need to read it. how long can we read it before something is done. host: i appreciate your call. i think we are losing you there on your cell phone. cumorah, myrtle beach, barbara, republican color -aller. caller: i do agree that something needs to be done, something needs to be done. but this is not the right way. yes, it does have to be paid for, and i do care how is paid for. maybe we can start with our nice little contribution from our congressmen, senators, and

president. but also, the shaman who called earlier and said he spoke to many people who lived in europe, canada, and so forth the gentleman who called earlier and said he spoke to many people who live in europe, canada and so forth -- i have lived in germany and holland, talked to many people from canada when i lived there from over 20 years. and people from canada were continually coming across when they had cancer, something long term care. they could not get covered. when i was in the netherlands, the same thing. they were not happy. host: when you were overseas, how did you get health care? was this through the military, or -- caller: i was in the military. i know other people who were over there with the military who on occasion had to go to a civilian doctor. that did happen in the

netherlands. . construction has yet to start on many, and even more products have begun, they have not resulted in as many new jobs as hoped. boulder, colorado. how has your position changed? has it?

caller: i was calling because i think it is more urgent than ever, but one piece of the pa that everyone is overlooking -- everyone is concerned about how we are going to pay for the cost. there is an obvious solution to me that is being overlooked. insurance companies are profit agencies. the only way they make a profit is by denying health care. that is the only way they make money. i do not know how necessary they are. if people are together, they can get cheaper prices and stuff. if they made insurance nonprofit -- if your house was on fire,

you only need to go to a directory to look up the fire company. and they do not stop and see if you have home owners insurance. can you imagine firefighting was dealt a semi that health care is -- in the same way that health care is? if the profit was not involved in it, can't help the middle man, i think it would pay for itself automatically. host: the issue of cost was on the mind of senator judd gregg. here is some of what he had to say about the cost of the bill. >> the issue of whether it adds to the deficit is a determination is -- of whether

they raise taxes. the cbo, who is elected by the democratic leadership, said that the bill's proposed would significantly everett -- aggravate the health care cost system. it would cause the cost to go up significantly, as well as the burden on the federal and government in terms of what it has to pay. it also did nothing to contain the rate of health care costs. they should make a step back and take a look at what is going forward in the congress and ask, how can we do this better? host: one more democratic phone call from california. caller: goethe morning. i think -- good morning. i think that time has passed to get some kind of health care reform out there and passed.

we have spent the past 30 years kicking the idea around, always asking, how come we cannot do it? now we must. before any debate is held on this subject, they should put them in the room and they should play mr. moore's documentary on health care before saying anything. host: more discussion on health care with and judy feder from the center for american progress who it was involved in the clinton reform plan. then later on, three governors. we will speak to the governors of delaware, south carolina, and vermont we will see you in just a moment.

>> leaders in new media, from this year's digital media conference. the issue of health care reform is also on the mind of michael steele. he will talk about the issue this morning at the national press club. we will have his remarks at 9:00 eastern on c-span2. today marks the 40th anniversary

of the moon landing, and a panel today at the newsueum looks at the future of space travel. and this afternoon, the house energy and commerce committee meets for the third day to mark up legislation on health care reform. host: and judy feder is a senior fellow at the center for american progress. she is very involved in the debate over health care, going back to even before the clinton administration. as you look at what has come out in the house committees and in the senate health committee, what do you think of the plans developing so far? guest: i think we are on a path

to deliver what americans are waiting for which is guaranteed affordable health care for everyone. that means bringing down costs. right now is heating up family budgets, and businesses, and wage spending. we need to make sure that everybody, regardless of your age or health status, has access and health insurance that covers us when we are sick. although there are some differences among the bills, they are very much on the path of building our current system up to where we need to be. host: you and your colleagues released a report on insuring the cost of making sure the cost is budget neutral. this report just came out. talk about the financing of health care reform. one committee last week passed

an increase in taxes as part of their proposal. what does your report called for? guest: we look at a mix of ideas. let me be clear on what we are trying to pay for when we talk about cost. we are talking about $100 million per year, which, in this day and age, is not that much money. if is a lot of money, but not enormous. the first source is to get rid of what we are paying too much for in the medicaid program. there is lots of evidence that we are overpaying hmo's and other things in the plan. we need to get rid of what we are paying too much for.

that is obvious. the second kind of financing for health care revenue -- is revenues. we need to keep growth going over time, and pay for subsidies, said there is a mix of ways to do that. as you said, various committees have proposed some revenue- producing ideas. in the senate, proposals for various kinds of taxes on sugar, other kinds of fin taxes. requiring employers to contribute, in both houses, that is one idea. the third source that we argue strongly, and had presented evidence, is that savings come

from not just getting rid of what we are paying too much for, but also changing the way that we pay, not just in medicare, but the health-care system. medicare is part of a bigger system that needs to change. what we are talking about here -- people will remember in the campaign, president obama talked about paying for primary care so that you could really see your doctor early, get prevention care, instead of what we are doing now, which is paying a lot of money for high-tech services which are not necessarily giving us value. we want to shift the system. the challenge when we go to a new payment system, the way we need to do it, is reduced reward

for overpayments that i talked about, and then increasing incentives to doctors and hospitals to do better. where we have some uncertainty is where -- how rapidly that can take place. the bills in the senate encourage both methods in medicare and in the new public health insurance option, which can make a big difference, but there is some uncertainty. what we have advocated at the center for american progress is a fail-safe mechanism, recognizing that even the industry has said it can take those growth rates down by 1.5% points a year. that does not sound like much, but it adds up to $2 trillion over 10 years. what this mechanism does it is, if we do not change from the

system as rapidly as intended, then a commission would put other mechanisms in the fact to make sure that we achieve our goals, mechanisms that we know the cbo will accept in terms of bringing the dollar into line. host: going back to your comment about what medicare pays for, isn't this an expansion for medicare for coverage of some? is that not part of the proposal that is being developed? when that not increase costs? guest: it depends on what you are doing. on the medicare side, we are talking about more prevention. a gradual closing of the doughnut hole, a huge gap. after falling off of a certain

area of protection, you are on your own. that is no way to run a plan. we know that when people forgo their medication, they actually get sicker and costs them in the long run. there are some expansions, but the revenues that we gain from getting rid of the overpayments are substantial, and the house is covering about half of the cost of new legislation. it is the right way to go. it extends the life of the medicare trust fund by about five years. host: which piece of legislation the like the most? guest: what i like is that they are all running on similar paths. in the house version, they advocate a strong public option.

even critics have said that that is a government takeover, but the cbo says that it is a level playing field player coming keeping health insurance companies and honest, as the president likes to say. of the bills in the senate, the senate health committee only covers a portion of the jurisdiction divided in the senate, so they only cover some of the thing that we need. we need to hear from the finance committee. host: next phone call, republican. caller: i think you should start by checking fraud. there were six people who have been to the hospital 2600 times in the past year. some of these doctors get together with these people on

welfare and social security and make up this person who has 2,000 ft operations. anything that the government does -- medicare, medicaid is going under. they do not need to make a profit. they can charge whatever they want. host: do these bills addressed the issue of fraud? guest: absolutely, they do. we need to make sure payment are appropriate. i am with you most of the way, you are right. we need to hold all doctors, hospitals, and ourselves, responsible for our behavior, along with making sure that our claims are accurate and honest. that would put an end to the benefit of providers from

continually readmitting people to the hospital. let's take care of it the first time. i have to disagree with you on the government being particularly irresponsible. there are issues in insurers, and it is medicare and medicaid that is not going under, first of all. they have issues of accuracy in payments. the real issue is that we are not encouraging the responsible behavior is on the part of providers that we need to see, which is to keep us healthy, not just putting us through the system when we are sick. host: caterina, ohio. caller: i have been through the health-care system with my father. my parents, unbeknownst to our

family, switched from traditional medicare to a private insurance company. now he ended up in a nursing home. he is 82, we knew that he would get there. here is the amazing thing. he always paid into the system. he has only been in the hospital twice in his life. i am amazed, over the past few years, watching seniors get jacked around by their private insurance companies in mature into therapy. they want to take him off all the time. they use the industry term, he came a plateau. -- hit a plateau.

while our seniors, who have done nothing but pay into the system, have to fight for what is theirs? i have seen them cut off care for a nun for some small c lause. that nun was in a wheelchair. i talked to and the people that they cut off and sent home because they did not get some sort of industry term. i am wondering how we get more consistency for our seniors so that they do not need to find these private insurance companies? you talked about prevention. we have gone to the v.a. for years, and his legs ended up in a horrible shape, but how do we do with prevention?

this is also off topic, but earlier, you read from a newspaper and said that we wanted to stop iran's nuclear weapons program. there has been no proof that they have a nuclear weapons program. host: we are going to leave it there to get a response. guest: you raise such an important question, and many of us have experienced the disappointments -- to put it mildly -- with our health care system and coping with our parents' illness. on the therapy concerns and prevention, they come together. when we talk about changing the way in which we pay providers -- doctors, hospitals, other kinds of health professionals -- we

talk about rewarding them for keeping people healthy. making sure that they have adequate therapy, and that their needs are intended to, that we spend enough time with them by paying primary physicians more to do more of what we want them to do. that is really changing the overall perspective. there will always be rules in payment systems. another time we can talk about the complexities there, but the push here needs to be pushing the system away from narrow categories and not on prevention, to pushing them to work with the patient and keeping them healthy. i think we have the potential for addressing this concern for

seniors, as well as for the rest of the country. host: our guest is judy feder. she served in the clinton administration, is tapping director at hhs. easton, conn.. good morning. caller: i am very sorry for the woman that was just on. we are paying for health care right now -- people do not believe that -- and we are being run amok by some strong insurance companies. one colleague at my husband's work -- they are connecticut -- canadian, although they've worked here in connecticut -- but she troubles back home to canada. my mother in lot is 86. i am stunned that kind of

treatment that she gets in england. they come to her house if she has a problem. i cannot keep going on about it because she had been treated and wonderfully. and they do everything for her. i am amazed at the treatment that she gets. i am tired of people saying that socialized medicine does not work. when i go to england, i am relieved i am there because i know that i will not be hassled for health insurance. i have stood in line here in pharmacies and said, i cannot pay for this prescription. i remember twice earlier this year i need antibiotics. i needed two weeks. i could not afford it.

we can do this in this country. we can do this better. thank you so much for listening. guest: i appreciate your words and passion. there is a lot of dishonesty ou t there in terms of what we are able to do. talking about your mother- inlaw, getting the type of care that she needs, we really need to pay attention to primary- care. we know that other countries do much better than we do. i also want to be clear to everybody listening and watching, we are not talking in this country about the british or canadian system. this is about strengthening the american system. getting our system to pay attention to the kinds of

primary care, prevention, chronic disease, that is currently missing. we are not getting the value and attention from our system that we badly need. host: back to the political debate, the head of the cbo said that neither bill did enough to slow down the cost of health care. this morning in the "politico" the right negotiators are scrambling ways to find ways to bend the cost curve. one idea is to seek congressional authority to an outside panel based on strengthening the military commissions to make deeper cuts in spending. what are your thoughts on that? guest: when the cbo looks at a piece of legislation -- i do not

recall this instance -- but what they tend to do is focus on particular pieces. what we see in legislation in the house and senate, which is not getting adequate recognition, is that there is a precedent getting put into place that gets rid of payments, excess it rewards to high-cost services, and provides rewards for the kind of service that will keep us healthy. that process is there. we know that' medicare and other health insurance options can help to put those things in place. we know that the private industry will follow medicare's

lead. in terms of a commission, it is quite similar -- you asked about what we broke about keeping finance reform. we were talking about some kind of commission as a fail safe, giving it some authority, if we established a goal for health- care spending for the nation which the industries agreed to. we put policies in place that we believe will achieve those savings. where there is uncertainty, you do need an authority to put in other measures to adjust, because there are a uncertainties, and this allows us a guarantee to be secure that we are not increasing the deficit with this legislation.

host: there is a link to her employer on our website. next phone call from the democrat line. caller: i think the first thing that we should look into is the controls of hospitals and insurance companies. we have had a couple of hospital bills, and at the end of the bill, they say that we are going to pay $200, it doesn't say what for. they need to control this. i am on medicare and i have insurance. i am limited on my social security. i do not get a lot of extra money. when we called and asked what

was going on, can we pay $10 a month? they would not accept anything other than $200. i would like to see them start on legislation immediately. it is hurting the people that do not have money. callerguest: it is incredibly frustrating to deal with the health care system when you are struggling. whether with hospital bills or insurance companies, you have no idea whether what they are asking you for it is appropriate, why you are being charged.

a big piece of the legislation we see going forward, and what we have advocated for, is greater transparency and clarity, particularly, on the part of insurers. we want to know what is in our policy and what we can get when we are sick. we have asked for a coverage labeling that will tell you if you have this disease, and this is what you can expect. we need to know our choices. thank you. this is something that needs to be addressed. host: one more phone call on our republican line. caller: the sooner that they let these people go, the sooner they

will not have to pay for their social security. i have not heard anyone mention [inaudible] the other question is, if medicare can be reformed, why has not that already begun? guest: thank you. those are all good questions. it is horrible when you look at how budgets are addressed, that people are living shorter -- that would be a boost for policy. that is not acceptable. on your last point about why we

have not reformed already -- it is frustrating. this is something that i have been working on for about 30 years. for too many years, we have simply paid the bills, what ever they are, and have not done an adequate job of getting value on the dollar. we have seen the cost go up and up as a result. you asked me at the beginning what is different from when we did this some years ago, what are we seeing in legislation? we finally have reached a point where enough is enough. it is not about inefficiencies. the whole system needs to change. we need to have everyone in the system to make it work

differently. i think you're frustration is the lead. the degree of pressure we are facing as a nation is different. some proponents are trying to scare us into not making reform. they cannot do it this time. we know that the system we currently have is not delivering the type of care that we want. we know that we can do better. i am optimistic about going forward. you asked me about the premium in a public auction. that will offer its benefits and insurance alongside private insurance. i think there is reason to believe we will be able to do so more efficiently at a lower cost, but we have not yet seen those premiums. what i can tell you is because of cost savings getting put into the system, over time, those premiums will be lower than what

they would be in the absence of reform. host: julie feder, among -- judy feder, from the center for american progress. we go next to biloxi, mississippi for the first of three governors and joining us this morning. kjack markell is with us this morning. we are going to pick up on the issue of health care reform. has this been a topic of conversation among governors there? guest: it has been a topic of considerable discussion. i believe most governors across the country want to see improvements in quality, access, but of course, we are also concerned about cost. we want is equal commitment to cost reduction, cost control. we also want to make sure that

the bill is not passed on to the states. we are dealing with difficult budgets across the country. in delaware, we just balanced our budget. host: how did you manage to balance the budget? you said it was painful. what did you have to do? guest: first of all, we had to cut spending considerably more than what we had in revenue. we also, using some of the stimulus money, passed legislation for a new sports lottery. basically, what we did in the context of a budget shortfall that size it is we came up with three guiding principles. we needed to make sure that the solution was fiscally responsible, under the court commitments of educating our kids in keeping the streets safer, and making sure that we

recognize that all of us are in this together. it was very difficult but we got this done. now as we think about the health care issue, we want to make sure that in delaware, and across the country, given that they may face another difficult budget issuyear, that we do not end up holding the bag. host: the first of every three discussions with governors across the country. republicans, 202-737-0001. democrats, 202-737-0002. independents, 202-628-0205. delaware residents, 202-628- 0184. go ahead and give us a phone call. governor, you talked about the stimulus helping you to balance

the budget. there is a headline this morning that test "markell, other governors not keen on more government stimulus." what are you opposed to further stimulus spending? guest: first of all, there is not a big appetite for another stimulus. it was helpful to us, particularly in the medicare part, and other parts helping to balance the budget, but as much as we cut and focused on the near-term budget, we also recognized that we cannot cut our way to a prosperous future. for us it is about creating jobs. the stimulus package is starting to bear some fruit there. a few weeks ago i went to some amtrak facilities and saw some repairs and new projects going

on. we introduced the first passenger car to be refurbished due to stimulus money, and that will result in the hirings of 52 people. unfortunately, we lost our chrysler plant. general motors will be going as well. the stimulus money allow amtrak to hire back some of those folks who were working at chrysler and gm. we have lots of transportation projects going which are starting to bear fruit, but in the end, it will be up to the state and country to make sure that we create an economic climate where business can ride. i am fortunate enough to come from the business world, telecommunications, and i am committed to creating a positive economic environment in delaware. i know that we can. it is incumbent upon us to make that happen.

host: at recovery.gov, the worst can click on their own state and see how their state is -- viewers can see their own state and how dare state is spending the stimulus money. next phone call. caller: all of these things look like projects, like they're only good for a year or two. it is not like a career or anything. i just think these are project jobs, not careers. there is also nothing in the bill that shows that there are tracking the citizenship of the people working. it does not really help our country if illegal aliens dream more from the system and send the money back to mexico.

guest: first of all, many of the projects are relatively short term. certainly, some of the transportation projects are short term, but with long-term economic developments with respect to transportation, renewable energy. that being said, states have the responsibility to look longer down the horizon. in delaware we are focusing on small business. those of us in public office have to put ourselves in the shoes of those who create jobs and prosperity, and understand that a detailed level what they are looking for and what problems they have. in this economic environment, one of the major problems faced by small businesses is the fact that they have not been able to access credit in an affordable way. in delaware, we created a program called the small

business with the program -- lift program. that allows businesses to borrow at an affordable rate. i have been to a few businesses that have participated in this plan and have been able to stay in business, been able to keep a couple of jobs as a result of the program. to your question, while some of these certainly are short-term benefit, we need to get through the short-term challenge. we are working hard to turn things around in the long term, but in the meantime, we need to keep people employed. host: you mentioned some car plants getting closed down and getting rehired by amtrak. how about retraining some of those workers? guest: the day after gm announced their closure, it was

very painful. they were part of the delaware community for many decades. i visited the plant and talked to many of them, and basically the next day we deployed run better response teams. -- rapid response teams. they would make sure that everyone had the resources that they needed to look for training or new jobs. we need to make sure people have access to training, as well as making sure jobs are available. in delaware, we have been hit pretty hard by the fall of the automobile industry. we have to make sure that they have new job opportunities. host: middletown, delaware. go ahead, richard. caller: good morning, governor.

three years ago republicans changed the rules. all of my insurance is in pennsylvania. my doctor is also in pennsylvania. all of a sudden, i could not opt for the pennsylvania doctor. then i could not do that. can you answer why that happened? guest: i am not sure what kind of change you were talking about. if you get in touch with my office -- and if you are in new castle county, you can call mary darby, and explain that we had this conversation on c-span. give her the details, and we will get back to you. host: kalamazoo, michigan. you are next. caller: my husband is a primary

care physician. my husband went to university in michigan for medical school. we ended up paying our medical school bills -- about $189,000. wheat ended up paying over $1,000 a month over 10 years to pay back his medical school bills. we paid every month, like we were supposed to, and then went into primary care solo practice, and he could not get a loan. the only way that we could do that was because i had good credit. he had been a student, so he had little credit. host: do you have a specific question? caller: yes, i wanted to explain the situation first. what are states going to do to help with students? everyone is talking about

primary care physicians. it is so hard to be an educator and be a primary care physician and pay back your loans. the government does not want to educate anyone in primary care and help them to open up an office. guest: in delaware, we do have a program that helps a certain number of physicians get access, helps with the financing of other education. secondly, some states have done interesting things around primary-care physicians, the effectively increasing reimbursement rates. as we think about health care reform, there is a lot of focus on access, but sometimes not as much on prevention and wellness. i am convinced that over a period of time, -- and we have showed it in our state -- that

people taking care of themselves and doing preventive measures will reduce costs over time. at this moment in time, we are at a pivotal moment when states are starting to see what can happen at the national level. in delaware, before we go down a path of healthcare reform, we need to see what will happen at a national level first. host: your concerns are echoed in the headlines. a hurdle for obama is the sub- headline. have you, as governors come expressed some of your concerns to the administration? guest: yes, we have to. i believe the president is fully committed to cost control.

that is one of the most important things that we need to do, learn the lessons of other places and states that have experienced with these types of reforms, particularly increasing access. that is important to businesses and working people across the country. however, one thing we have learned is we need to focus on cost control. we look forward to seeing bills that do that as well. bottom line, we want to make sure all americans have access to high-quality health care. as i said, we do not want to be left holding the bag, because we cannot afford it. after all the difficult cuts that we have had to make in delaware -- we had to ask our state employee to take a pay cut, we had to close certain facilities and programs. frankly, there could be more closings. we are just going to have to

reinvent the way we think about efficiency. with all that, we cannot afford to have a big bill passed onto us by the federal government. host: next phone call on the republican line. caller: i think i come from a unique perspective. i am a social worker, my husband is an emergency room physician, and my sister is a transplant coordinator. i have listened to this debate over and over again and there are some key issues not being addressed first of all. first of all, reform. i have heard president obama talk about how expensive things are, but i have not heard him talk about why my husband needs to do these extra tests just because he is trying to cover himself because there is someone

standing at the door waiting to jump on every doctor. there are some key issues not being addressed. even if all of this happens, what will we do about all the people that my husband sees every day, people that come into the hospital only seeking drugs? host: your husband is a doctor? caller: yes, and i am a social worker. host: thank you for your phone call. guest: some states have demonstrated some success in terms of reform. for example, moving to the electronic records will help. reducing administrative costss. a huge portion of the administrative costs is in

paperwork, administrative overhead. reducing medical errors and is another one. there are a lot of things that we can do, and that is what we want to see from the federal legislation. host: give us a snapshot of how the economy is in your state in the middle of july, with the chemical industry, tourism, how do things stand? hostguest: it continues to be difficult. there are pockets of optimism. however, the best reports that i get on the economy are from local business people. we are starting to see more people stay close to home. some of the beer companies -- we have big exposure to financial services. -- we have tsome big exposure to

financial services. the most important thing, in my mind, the most important thing the government can do is to create an economic environment where workers and entrepreneurs alike can live in the variety of industries. that means having strong linkages between higher education and local companies. it also means aggressively telling our story. we have a great story to tell. we encourage people to take a look at delaware. we recently had an announcement about farmers insurance buying a local automobile insurance unit from 21st century, the old

a.i.g. i met the people and were very impressed about -- and they were very impressed about how business-friendly we were. host: next phone call from new mark. caller: [inaudible] good morning. one of my concerns here, some of the stimulus money is being doled out to some of the more professional people. delaware is a pretty small state, so it would be unfair to say that it is getting billed out to friends and neighbors. some people on the receiving end cannot have a proficiency in

how the system works. whether we get more stimulus or not, we should be focusing on some things similar to your business finance school. guest: thank you for calling in. i wanted to thank the lieutenant governor who it is effectively the state stimulus czar. he has really explained in detail how the process works, how groups can apply. we have a pretty good process for making some of these decisions. of course, one of the things vice-president biden has said to me on a number of occasions is helpful to tea and the president are to make sure that the money is accounted for, and that we are very clear and transparent about it.

we are doing everything we can to get the money to delaware residents, and making sure that the money is spent well. we are doing everything we can to do that, and people can look at recovery. delaware.gov. i will talk to the lieutenant governor to see if there are some ongoing opportunities to provide classes in terms of education and learning. host: does having a vice- president from delaware give you certain advantages that you did not before? callerguest: he is certainly cod to delaware. he still cares deeply about our state. obviously, very focused on the entire country, but we could not be more proud of him. we believe the president made a phenomenal selection and asking

joe biden to be his running mate. host: next phone call on the democrat line. kentucky. caller: i m retired -- semi- retired military. i still work full-time at the v.a. medical center. my health service is free. the taxpayers fund it. i have had two operations at lexington medical center. on a perfectly happy with my health care. one of the problems that drives a private hom's up,mo's up, tha-

profit hom'mo's. there is no reason we should pay twice the cost of medication compared to canada or mexico. guest: first of all, thank you for your service to the country. also, your experience at the v.a. medical center, that is interesting. that has really improved a lot in recent years. we have a terrific center in our state which i visited recently. i was very satisfied with what was happening there. the competition in the context of health care is important. that being said, a number of years have focused on the issue of cost. -- number of you have focused on the issue of cost.

whether we are talking about electronic record of reducing medical errors, as well as well as prevention, we believe these are very important things. when you look at obesity in our country, all of the chronic diseases that stem from that, it is a big deal. there is no silver bullet here. we have to think about this politically. a number of states, including delaware, have shown innovation in health care. -- about this holistically. host: there is a front-page story about dover air force base, and the role that it place for returning soldiers. tell us about the changes that have been made since president obama allowed these homecomings

to be taped. guest: our view of the folks at dover were incredibly high before and after that policy. we are so fortunate to have the space. the caliber of the people involved in the community -- we are so proud to have them. we are also proud to have an active national guard unit. from an economic perspective, it is great to have the type of presence and support. beyond that, to have these people involved in literally, other kinds of community organization, being part of the fabric of the community, is a big deal. we are absolutely thrilled with the people, leadership at the air force base. as well as the national guard.

host: next phone call, virginia. caller: that lady from a few phone calls before. she asked you about reform. you entered some other question but you did not answer her didon tort reform. -- you did not answer her question on tort reform. guest: i am not sure taking away care is such a good idea. most medical specialties have these protocols for doctors to follow, to the extent that doctors follow them. there is a much better chance that these types of reforms will not be necessary.

host: thank you for being with us this morning. we will talk next with mike rounds, the governor of south dakota. . checking money on wall street, stock futures are up on media reports commercial lender c it group reached a deal to avoid bankruptcy. the stock futures are up 59 and

the nasdaq is up nine. five-term republican congressman mark kirk says he is running for the senate seat once held by president obama. during an interview earlier on wls radio he said eleanor has become a laughingstock cents democrat roland burris was appointed to the senate seat by a former illinois gov. roy blagojevich was accused of trying to sell the seed, adding he hopes to restore ethics and integrity to illinois government. the whole report connecticut senator chris dodd, chairman of the senate banking committee, was on markers event -- martha's vineyard this weekend meeting with lobbyists that the democratic senatorial campaign committee's annual retreat, this after criticizing lobbyists in a recent fund-raising letter and distancing himself from the lobbyist group in a recent campaign ads. the administration's first state visit is set. on the president's behalf

secretary of state of garlic -- hillary clinton extended of the invitation to indian prime minister for a state visit. the date is two days before the first anniversary of the mumbai attacks of november 26. finally, aerospace writer marsha done of the ap reports the astronauts aboard the space station celebrate the 40th anniversary of the moon landing with their own space walk. in about an hour david wolfe and davidmarshburn marc 40 years to the day neil armstrong and buzz aldrin walked on the moon. those are some of latest headlines on c-span radio. >> back to biloxi, mississippi, site of the national governors' association's meeting. we are joined by governor mike rounds of south dakota. we will pick up where a couple of callers left off, talking about medicare. there is a headline, aberdeen

news this morning that says south dakota sets the standard for medicare expenses. is that the ranks the state among the chief of the cheapest rates for doing business through medicare, the result of what officials say are local efficiencies and bennett of help. south dakota is no. 47 would expenses averaging $6,000 average 8300. the governors are concerned about the obama administration plan or the congressional plan to expand medicaid costs. guest: out we are concerned. in the midwest, i think it is not just south dakota, the the upper midwest, you will find the cost are below average and the quality of care is the lot -- above average. there is a study out right now saying that if you could actually take the cost containment that have been involved and the quality measures already instituted in the upper midwest, you would actually change the amount of gdp spent on health care from

about 18 down to about 13%, which i think would meet most of the goals, and that most of politicians would like to achieve. host: gov. rounds with us until 9:30 a.m. on a number of issues. for south dakota residents, that number again is 628-0184. we will start off with a question about the economy in south dakota. how are things? guest: we are diversified, we have a strong ag economy but manufacturing has been hit hard. financial services, primarily due to changes to the credit- card industry, will be

significant in our state. it is anticipated we will lose about 70 million credit card that will not be issued over the next 18 months. a lot of those would have been issued out of south dakota. we will see a significant impact on financial-services portion of our industry. but ag so far has been strong. we should have a good harvest, but we did not know what the prices will be. overall, we won't recover until we see an improvement in the jobless rate. some folks will look and will their eyes will we say we are having a tough time because we are at 5.1 percent unemployment but we are used to having 2.5%, to 0.6% or 2.7% range. we see a significant increase in are on unemployment, mostly in manufacturing. until we start to put some of these folks who really don't -- really do want to work, until we get them back to work again we will feel the pain just like everybody else. host: a reminder to our viewers,

at recovery.gov, you can link to the status south dakota and see how much they are getting in federal stimulus money and how it is being spent. give us an idea how the money is being spent and how would impact of budget plans? guest: at the end of the year we spent $71 million in stimulus, took advantage of all the funds being made available. $88 million to our own state dollars through the stabilization act and somewhere north of 65 million available for the 2011 budget. we are using it. as long as they are -- taxpayers are committed to borrow the money and spending the money we are putting it into programs such as medicaid. $265 million in terms of our cost, $1.2 billion general fund.

we also took transportation funds and put out as many of the dollars as we could. $38 million for new law rule water projects. try to get them -- new rural projects. host: back to the jobless numbers, a little over 5%. you expressed -- expressed concern being a bit higher than the usual number for south dakota. what the south dakota due on its own in terms of retraining people for jobs and finding new areas for workers to enter? guest: as soon as it became apparent we would not be immune from this recession, we went out to a different communities and

we shared with the leaders what we have available through the department of labour. $32 million of federal dollars that could be made available. we didn't increase in unemployment per weekly basis -- we did an increase in unemployment per weekly basis $25 a week. and if you have employees and the without work, we want to get them back into a training center, whether for a commercial driver's license if they don't have one, we want to get them back into one of our technical schools, and we would pay the tuition -- or university settings for a certificate program once -- for once the turnaround. tools if they were not going to be employed, but at the same time we would to contractors and said, look, if you can use these people, if you have been short in the past -- and at 2.8% or

3%, a lot worse saying it was tough to get people to work for them in the last couple of years, we said now is your opportunity to bring some of these folks and and put them back to work again. we tried to address the people want to get retraining, and we look at new things like pesticides, herbicides applicators, people who work in commercial and areas -- ag areas. for the young pete of high- school and college looking for work in the summertime, we provided internships. we maxed out in those dollars so they can pick up college credit, working for a state or for a business. the businesses really responded and we had a lot of requests from businesses and said, look, give as a youngster and we will put them in an internship project for the summer. and some of the people without

work can use some of the seasonal jobs. host: margaret in sunrise, fla., for gov. mark rounds from south dakota. caller: thank you. i have a little concerned about the health care issue. i was watching representative -- and annoyance on medicare fraud, how much money bilked out. yet they voted him down but he proved that other companies have been able to do that. another thing is that, where does the president get off as far as penalizing people for not caring insurance and this bill did in that he is proposing here? host: for not caring insurance -- carrying insurance? caller: right, right.

small business people, and another thing is my concern about the division that it is going to cause between -- you know, our representatives and us as people because i understand the governor is representing all of their people, they don't have to fall and soon the government plan. host: governor rounds? guest: first of all come any time of a major program with lots of dollars, the opportunity for fraud is there, yet to be vigilant. the president has declared he would put up with it and most states we have stringent laws on how we thought it the dollars entrusted to us. if we don't do a good job, we could lose some of our money as well. on health care issue, i think

most governors will tell you there is definitely wrong for improvement in health care. arkin -- there is room for improvement. we don't want to lose flexibility. we have done good things on a state-by-state basis already and we think we should learn from those areas. second of all, concerned when congress makes promises -- congress putting more people on medicaid, when they start making promises about a public health care plan, we get nervous because someone has to pay the bill. and house bill it is suggested they will pick up the cost, yet most of us are suspect and we don't think they have any place to go to get the money. we know in the past, eventually, there is always an opportunity or time to pass it to the states. a good example and south could is indian health service. if you ever want to see a perfect example of why nobody should be stuck on a public health system, take a look at our native americans and what

the rest out -- stuck with an terms of indian health. in south dakota right now, it is pathetic. yet 90% relies -- three tree -- -- three treaties are entitled to public health care from the indian health care act. host: what is the problem with the indian program? guest: they make promises are ongoing services and they don't funded. they have no place to go. what they end up doing is treating them for life and limb only, but they don't get help day-to-day to stop losing an arm or leg. the federal government will pay to take off a leg, but not a podiatrist to come in and try to save a leg. those of the kinds of things to me are just flat out wrong with the public system. but given example. we got word and south dakota that native americans can come in and contract, they can come off of a reservation to a

private provider and it will not pay a co-pay or deductible but the state will now pick up all copays or deductible. not the federal government, but the states will pick up all copays and deductibles. one way to pass off the cost of health care. those of the things i think bother a lot of governors because what we have seen in the past is the promises are well intentioned, but when it comes time to pay the bill, the governors get stuck in many cases paying a larger and larger portion over a period of lead -- years. if we are going to try to save dollars, then look at true reform. finding efficiencies within the system. put it has transferred into one of how we put more on the public system right now, medicaid in particular, and how we are going to pay for that. and we will get a trillion- dollar deficit at the federal level. how will we add another $100 billion or $150 billion on and

sustain it, or at one point will the comeback to the stage where it is now part of our problem through a pass through or simply say we will only pay a certain percentage of the services being provided, which means physicians and hospitals will pass the cost on to the private sections of the economy, making it more difficult he for the faults that have private insurance to afford their own insurance. those are the concerns we expressed. i will tell you president obama, in our discussions, has been very sincere in his interest in reforming the health-care system. he has made it very clear he does not want to see it passed through to the states. we do not want to be a system of rationing care. the challenges back to meeting those goals. host: linda on our independen ts line. caller: one thing i want to

focus on as health care. with so many jobs the last 30 years being shipped overseas and manufacturing -- there is no longer a tax base, that is out of the picture. bringing jobs back to the united states and creating jobs is very important. in terms of health care, when we have some representatives accepting contributions from the insurance industry, the medical industry or pharmaceutical, the appear to be worked for them and not for us. the middle class, working class, working poor it is really tired of the rhetoric -- rhetoric. i happen to live in ireland under socialized medicine, it does work. it is cost effective, except people in the pharmaceutical and medical industry did not make

massive profits that they do in the united states. host: linda, i will get a response. thank you. caller: i am not familiar with the ireland system. i am familiar with what we have here that has been instituted sarre -- so far by our congress and the past. meeting the needs by simply not paying those organizations and providers that we count on for health care and they end up passing it on to everyone else and higher costs for procedures and so forth -- medicare and medicaid pay a percentage of the going rate, and if it is not enough, it gets passed back on to everyone else. one of the discussions in the house bill, if they want to put more people on this plan of medicaid, by increasing the percentage of people eligible for medicaid, the also recognize they pay private providers more money on a per individual basis.

if i think there is a recognition that is occurring, but we have not seen in this country is successful approach like has been suggested. we do have a private system -- about 92% of our folks have a combination of either a plan for insurance or a private basis compared i did not want to totally -- basis. i do not want to tell me and take it out. when it to expand coverage for individuals is simply cannot afford it. the real question is, how we truthfully say this is the cost and we are prepared to have of the people pay the bill for them. i think that is the real issue. host: gov. mike brown has a background in real estate and insurance. -- michael rounds. the housing industry, however

folks doing getting difficult mortgages readjusted? guest: as usual miss western -- midwestern stock most of our folks did not go out and buy above their means, they did not by the low interest mortgages that were then bumped up in prices. i think most of them made very good decisions up front. so, our housing industry, while it has slowed in terms of new construction like the rest of the country, we have not had the real heavy mortgage fit in south dakota like we have had another parts of the country where we were expecting to be able to reap the profits of the growing value in their home. most folks bought a home because they needed a place to live, rather than selling later on for a profit. host: the governor of delaware said the travel industry got a little bit of a boost because of folks staying closer to home. what about travel and tourism in south dakota? guest: so far this year the anecdotal information as possible. i get a chance to get out in the state. we are the land of great faces

and places -- not russia -- mount rushmore, crazy horse, and so forth. for those who have not seen the progress on crazy horse, they are missing something. but folks better coming out right now, we are up about 11% average in and around the western part of south dakota. we feel good about that. a lot of out-of-state travelers coming in. so far we are not seen the impact of a downtrend. last year was down a little bit. we talked about walking up 11%, probably not seeing a trend over a long period of time but we are seeing a better year this year than last year in terms of tourism. host: brooklyn, new york. sue, on the democrats' line. caller: good morning. i wanted to know if you and the other governors, how much involvement you have with the afl-cio as far as bringing back a full manufacturing base to the states and also creating what i

feel would be thousands of jobs in a hurry? i will just hang up and listen to your answer. thank you very much. guest: i have had no contact with the afl-cio, so i probably would not be very helpful to the caller on that particular one. but i have not had a contact in south dakota we have a very low union based. we are a right to work state. we still believe that the least amount of interference between employers and employees by the state is the best way to go. we've got rules and places out coda about how you treat your employees, but we leave a lot of the negotiations in terms of benefits and salaries between the two of them. host: there was an interview in "the wall street journal" with the new chairman of the fcc and said one of the top priorities, expansion of broader internet access. there has been a lot of discussion talking about expanding rural access.

is this done in south dakota and the stimulus money being used to implement some of that? guest: we were one of the first stage to put together at that time was considered a broad band approach. we wanted every school building in the entire state of south dakota with internet access. at that time it was very good -- 97, 98, and 99. we want to expand and enhance the internet capabilities that we've got an to go with more wireless capabilities throughout the state as well. it is being done. we know in some of our more rural communities it is a challenge, because of cannot -- but most of the challenge is not coming through the state. they are being delivered directly by the federal government through and rf processp through separate entities -- governmental or

private, but not through the state. most of the collect -- plans we have would suggest it would be built based upon need and on local businesses asking for and telecom industry preparing to build it. we are not billing a lot of the stimulus money -- funding to the state because we are not receiving that type of stimulus funding. host: albany, n.y.. ba'ath. -- beth. caller: the health insurance that he enjoys, we are all paying for his health insurance or his constituents. but i want to mainly say south dakota has a large credit-card base because they have lax laws that allow for gouging. i got a notice a couple of years ago even though i have perfect credit stating because i was not using my credit card -- i did not have some bad accident.

the other industry, -- extremely dangerous. it is not something necessarily to be proud of. the people who make the pesticides, their stockholders are making record earnings, that is the problem. pick stockholders are pushing for a huge returns and is forcing people into these dangerous jobs at low wages which would get them a bare minimum mortgage and keep them chained to their health care company. we will host: get a response from the governor. guest: i think have a different point of view -- i have state employee coverage. by the way, we actually mobled hour on in-store poll after the state employee plan. we increased coverage is for our employees as well as are uninsured pool recipients from

million dollars up to $2 million. so we do share that plan and we tried to do a good job for all individuals who don't have another place to get it, to give the same coverage that i get. second of all, when it comes to be able to provide jobs, some of the highest paying jobs we have in south dakota are working in commercial applicators. . providing herbicides and pesticides through mechanized systems, operating heavy equipment to provide some of the highest yielding acres of corn and soybean it any place in the united states. and we are feeding the rest of america in part because our farmers are so in -- efficient. it actually drives down the value of the wheat, corn, and because they produce for everybody else. i make no apologies for asking folks to be actively involved in a very safe and engaging industry that feeds the rest of the world. host: why is it the state has become a welcome state for the

credit card industry and a state that a number of credit-card companies base their operations? been guest: back in the mid- 1970s, our farmers cannot get any money to plant their crops. what happened was because the interest rates were being held down by using real laws, no one would lend money to farmers during the tough time in the economy. we raised the rates it not to bring the credit card companies in, but so that farmers could borrow money on a short-term basis of a could put their crops on the ground. what happened after that is there was a change in federal law that says if a state will invite a company from one state to another, make the invitation, a national bank, such as citibank, can move from one state to another. south dakota actually made some rush legislation in the 1980's, pushed it through quickly. we are a very small state, we move quickly when it comes to business issues, and we invited citibank to come to south

dakota. they were able to come to south dakota. use the existing statutes that allowed rates to be market- driven and in doing so created a successful credit-card company that most people enjoy. now, there were, the slasher, proposals by the federal reserve, six different rules. we supported five of the six rules. in fact, the credit-card company supported five out of the six. one of which would have taken care of the problem that this caller had suggested where they raised her rates arbitrarily. there was a sixth rule we disagree with that basically said limit credit cards, those issued to people with poor credit or beginning credit, the basically reduced the rates that would be charged on those and in doing so the basic with shutdown that part of the industry. there are about 70 million of those cards that are in jeopardy because of that. they will probably have to end up going someplace else and probably somewhere in the paid a landing area.

host: rochester, mich., lee on the republican line. caller: thank you for your service. i am a compassionate conservative -- i like the phrase from george bush but i didn't like what he did. it sounds from the way you are seeking to have a good -- speaking you have a good heart. but how can the republican party bridge the gap where we don't appear to be supporting credit- card issuers and not credit-card holders? where we say we import -- support insurance companies but not uninsured people and hospitals and not sick people. that is how we are perceived. i have to say in this particular instance that is how you are perceived, even though i follow your speeches and your endeavors. you are a kind hearted, good man, no question. but the perception of loving

bernie madoff and hating the victims, that is what i wanted to ask you, sir. guest: first of all, if you are going to have health care, you are going to have a hospital. you are going to have to have a doctor. if you are going to wrap a public plan saying you will pay this hospital or doctor a percentage of what they would otherwise receive, unless you tell them they cannot charge anybody else a higher rate it means that other organizations and paying higher charges and the people pay higher charges. we tried to get past the point of making promises we really cannot fill. and if we are going to offer a public plan -- and i think truly medicaid has done good things in america today. the state children's health insurance plan is a great example of taking care of children who would not have health care any other way. but if we do that and make the promises, we have to be able to pay for it on an ongoing basis. the problem right now we are making promises and telling

people we will provide coverage that we simply cannot sustain in the future. it will come back to haunt us and all two will pay the bill will be the next generation. host: one last local call the g- 8 wide open republican field. any interest in running for the presidency in 2012? guest: i have grown up in south dakota. south dakota is the place i said i wanted to work as governor. it has been truly the greatest job a person could ever have. i have made so -- no such plans to do anything. i'm looking forward to going back living and staying in south dakota. i made no other plans than that. to me i have been privileged to work as the governor in a very, very special state. host: thank you for joining us this morning. guest: thank you. host: we will be back in biloxi to hear from vermont gov. jim douglas joining us for another half-hour of " washington journal." we'll be right back.

[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] >> on "the communicator's" we will enter dues -- talk to leaders of the new media, including rick cotton from nbc universal. them a look ahead to some of the events we are covering on the c- span networks.

live from biloxi, mississippi, closing session of the annual national governors' association meeting, featuring energy and the economy. 11:30 a.m. eastern on c-span2. today marks the 40th anniversary of the apollo moon landing. at 12:30 p.m. eastern buzz aldrin is joined by other apollo of shuttle astronauts to talk about the future of space travel. later on, the house energy and commerce committee continues its work on health care legislation. live on 4:00 p.m. eastern on c- span. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us in the last half-hour, vermont gov. jim douglas, a republican, incoming chair of the national governor'' association. thank you for joining us this morning. guest: thank you. host: your words on the front

page of "the new york times," governor's fearing medicaid costs. they quote you saying that i think the governors would all agree we don't -- what we don't want is unfunded mandates from the federal government. we can't have congress and those requirements that we are forced to of soared beyond our capacity to do so. -- forced to absorb beyond our capacity. guest: congress is considering forming a health care system. it is the president's chief domestic policy object -- objective, and we all want to be leaders and reforming health care in our country. health care is expensive, and large percentage of the gross domestic product. it is what is causing tremendous pressure on family budgets and those of small businesses as well. we want to do what we can to reduce costs, improve the quality of care and insure every

american has access to it. but state governments are now facing huge budget pressures. we anticipate shortfalls of about $200 billion over the next couple of years kunitz of late in his top economic cycle. -- cumulatively in this tough economic cycle. we can have requirements on states that are already under financial pressure. we want to work with those who share our goals of reforming health care and improving it, but we cannot have unfunded mandates, frankly, in this area or any other. host: this story about vermont -- the pension fund for teachers, the need of $31 million. tell us what the budget situation is like in the state of vermont. guest: they are better funded and many in the country, but since we rely on investment income of portfolios, obviously the market had not been strong in the last year so as the ought

to be to maintain the integrity of the funds. there is a shortfall of with the state's contribution will have to be. under normal circumstances that would not be a bad problem, but coupled with the other fiscal and economic stress we are experiencing, it does make all the more challenging. this year we are in a sort of balance on the first of july, but then just last week we were at a meeting with the state economists to predict about a $28 million shortfall just a couple of weeks into the new fiscal year. the message i conveyed to vermonters is we are not out of the woods yet. the economy is not still in freefall but still in a downward trajectory. we have to do what families and businesses are doing, which is making tough decisions about what our priorities are. to be perfectly honest, the legislature this year did not make as many tough decisions as

it should have. the increased taxes over my objection. so we are going to face over the next couple of years probably a quarter billion dollar shortfall, three fiscal years coming up. so we've got real work to do. host: did the state you stimulus money to help balance the budget? guest: we did. that is certainly welcome -- because we have a very high percentage of medicaid, nearly a quarter, we rely heavily on that federal program point to keep it going. frankly we relied or our legislature relied a little more heavily on the fumble recovery dollars than nine would -- then i would have, because they are temporary, they will go away. that is the challenge of every state, to wean ourselves from the federal dollars and be ready to assume our own obligations. host: from our website, folks can go to recovery.gov and link

to vermont and see and track how the state of vermont and all the 50 states are tracking spending money. the numbers -- host: first up -- global, arizona. the democrats' line. caller: good morning. i just have a question. i am concerned that the insurance companies do not pay. i had this experience myself. i have a condition that requires a lot health care. we have gone through all of our savings. because our insurance company -- united health, it is worthless. everything i get, they do not pay, they do not pay, they do not pay. and this is supposed to be part of my husband's retirement plan.

i know the company the works for went for cheap, and we got cheap and we get nothing. the only thing i am asking and, when you work your whole life and you have paid your taxes and have been a productive individual, why can we not have the same health care that is afforded to our congressmen, to our governors, and why are they not better educated -- and i am not talking to this governor, but the one before who said i am not familiar with the plan that they have in ireland. welcome i think it is time we spend a little more time becoming more educated. if you are going to speak to us about a certain topic, please educate yourself as much as possible. don't know what we -- want to know what you're going to do to make health care more affordable to us. guest: that is a very important topic -- obviously the most important when we will be facing because of the huge cost and impact on our lives, especially

in a down economy. i want to say that i understand what you are saying because my dad who is retired from a big company suffered the same fate. they cut off health insurance for retirees a few years ago, which does not seem fair and leaves the lot of folks without options. that is why we are all interested in reforming the health-care system and insuring everyone has access to care pick they can afford but we need to do that to restrain costs so we don't have increasing percentage of our national economy going to this sector. it will choke off our efforts of building an economic base for competitiveness and a global economy. insurance regulation is handled at the state level, so i would encourage you to contact the insurance regulators in arizona. i am sure the governor would want me to suggest that to you and see what they can do to help.

host: texas, bill on the republican line. caller: great to hear you. you sound pretty knowledgeable to me. but i've got a question for you. down here in texas, a lot of the problems i see with health care reform -- you can ask rick perry out there, he should be at the meeting. one of the problems we have down here, and gov. rick perry is against an and kay bailey hutcheson is against it -- we have such an overflow of illegal immigration. you go to a hospital and you may have to wait three of four hours to get scene even though you do have insurance. and these people have 0 in short, none. i have said and watched them fill out the paperwork, noncompliance with insurance. host: it is that an issue in vermont as well? guest: we are a long way from texas, although we have something in common because taxes and vermont who were the only two states that were independent republics before we

joined the union. we are a long way from the southern border but we have mexican farm workers in vermont. i think the caller points out how important is we have immigration reform that works. this was discussed in the last couple of years. we thought there was movement toward bipartisan support in the previous congress to reform immigration so that our laws are enforced, while less the same time giving people a pass toward illegal immigration. i hope that might be back on the congressional agenda soon, and i hope the calo will talk to his representatives in congress. host: on a related issue, you testified in washington on plans to overhaul the national security card programs known as a real id. report from remarked -- vermont, critics say the current plan to replace driver's license with a national id places too many demands on states and is too expensive. in your testimony you said -- it

seems to me security systems only work of people ability use them. real id doesn't work because a lot of stage just said no. i'm committed to providing vermonters with a driver's license that is accurate and secure and i know my colleagues are as well. i know this has been an issue of discussion at the governors' meeting as well. guest: secretary napolitano, former governor of arizona and former colleague, was gracious enough to spend some time with us. she appeared with me before the senate homeland security committee just last week. the problem with real id two--- two-fold. it isn't unfunded mandate -- is an unfunded mandate, and posing costs on the states to develop this license system. so, we can't have that. secondly, with 13 state having passed laws saying they will not comply with the real id program,

that is not secure, a quarter of the state in america are not going to be a part of it. so we have to find something that works. i believe the bill that has been sponsored by the senator of ohio -- hawaii and ohio is a good alternative. it is a better mousetrap. it will ensure security through proper identification of those in his seat drivers licenses but want place such an undue burden on states that they will decline to comply. host: massachusetts. independent color. are you there? ? caller. caller: i have a comment than a question. you talking about letting the insurance companies -- i have seen a while ago on c-span where there were a popple of republicans sit on the i'll and two doctors came out point and they gave an answer why they want to put a public plan in and

you were saying that we wanted to trade in a government bureaucrat -- or a government bureaucrat for somebody who will sit there and tell us what we can -- piano, what we can get and can't get. what i see is a bunch of republicans saying we would rather trade in a government bureaucrat for a corporate bureaucrat. so as long as you see your profits going up and you make a comment about how you want to restructure the insurance company so they can live with their prices. that is temporary. while you have the hands of the pot -- in the pockets of lobbyists and have the doctors and insurance companies, there will be never a fair play for everybody, including the poor. guest: i should say initially that the dominant insurance companies and vermont are non- profit, and still costs are too high for the people of my state as they are everywhere else.

that is why we have to fundamentally transform how we deliver health care in this country. there was a report in the new yorker magazine a month or so ago talking about the delivery of care in a city in texas. what it concluded is because of the profit motives that our cal ler suggest, there was more focus on quantity than quality of care. we need to change that. we need to fundamentally reform health providers are compensated for their services so that we can bring down the cost of providing care to the american people. you know, governors are doing a lot of innovative things across america. we have something in vermont called the blueprint on health that focuses on wellness, preventive care, chronic disease management, evidence-based care, on medical homes so everyone has a primary care contact the governor of washington has done a lot -- contact.

the governor of washington has done a lot. the governor of west virginia and gov. haley barbour in mississippi has focused on the challenge of the b.c. in their state. fundamentally, how we are going to succeed in reducing the cost of care is improving the health of the american people. that is why if we shift from eight sick-care system to a health care system and focus on peak -- keeping people out of the hospital and doctor's office instead of -- a except for checkups, that is where we will make a difference. host: democrat caller. caller: i want to ask the governor, why is it that -- host: are you there? caller: white is it that we as taxpayers are always paying for these senators and governors and representatives -- we are paying for your health insurance and it seems that the republicans are still against the poor.

why is this? remember jeremiah and his quote to is the lights when they were distant -- disobedient and uncaring. host: de have any thoughts? guest: interestingly i have been trying in vermont to get our state employees union to pay more for health insurance so that the taxpayers don't have to pay as much, but i have not had any luck bringing them to the bargaining table to accomplish that. i think the goal has to be to reduce the cost of care for everybody. the taxpayers are paying for public employees, as the caller notes. but as the tax dollar and premium dollar you pay to ensure yourself and family, it just costs too much and we pay a lot more than other nations do, and we have to focus on reducing those costs. and i think if we really spend our time and energy on different

approaches to how we care for the american people, we can really make progress. host: the burlington free press had been a " on the state budget -- vermont looks to save $30 million. with more bad budget news looming, legislators lot separate plans monday to scour for savings and ran in spending. the administration revealed a plan to restrict this year's spending by withholding an average of 2% for many departments budgets until the financial picture is clearer. were you successful in doing that? guest: well, we are going to put those strategies into effect very soon. we need to get greater efficiency out of the operation of our state programs. deploring what are called tiger teams, individuals from some agencies looking at operations of others to offer ideas on how we can tighten up and reduce our level of spending. the allotment process to which you referred suggests that we

will not give each agency 1/12 of its annual appropriation each month during the fiscal year but give them a little less because we expect that revenues will continue -- the whole is about 2.5% of our general fund. quite substantial after downgrade's we already experienced. so we have to tighten our belts. as we noted earlier, our legislature has been reluctant to do that. but this is a reality we are facing. we have, according to one report, the highest tax burden in america, so we really don't have capacity to go back to people and ask for more. we have to do what families and businesses are doing and live within our means. host: philadelphia. anthony on the republican line. caller: as of now we have 350 million people + america, 200 million plus people with health

care insurance. what is -- why did they feel it is necessary to have to ensure the other 100 million people who decide not to have health care insurance? another few things i have -- if they decide they want to go with this government program, would states be able to nullify this, saying we don't like this plan? i think there is too much government corruption to have a big bureaucratic health care system, too many hands of the cookie jar. host: we will get a response from the governor. guest: at several important issues. first of all, the current estimates about the number of uninsured americans is 47 million, which is still quite a few, but not quite as many as you suggested.

i think that we ought to have options for the american people. i don't personally support creating some government plan. i think we ought to have an insurance market that is encouraging profit and not-for- profit companies to offer plans so that people have choices and some competition. i think that there are other things you can do. the caller mentioned " -- tort reform. the society in vermont mentioned some measures a few years ago, and i thought they were quite reasonable. but trial lawyers and others seem to resist them and there were not passed at least in a substantial way. the caller is correct, there are different things we have to do to try to rein in the cost of care in america, and i think every state needs to focus on that, especially as we wrestle with these difficult budget. host: westbury, new york. adam is going to school in vermont. go ahead. you are on the air.

caller: my name is adam, i am a high school student from new york, it is an honor for me to speak to you, governor. i think you are the type of republican we need to take back the republican party. you work well with both republicans and democrats. i also just wanted to say that i think you are a good conservation governor, supporting national public land. thank you. good luck in your -- good luck in your future. guest: @ thank you so much, adam. i am proud of the fact that one thing we are able to dip and a budget this year is increased support for our state parks. we have 52 of them. they are outstanding resources and we want to make sure they continue to be available for vermonters and visitors alike. you make an important point that also about that partisanship. that is what the national governors' association is all about. republican the democrats are

here, we share the same concerns about unfunded mandates from washington and serving the people that we represent and whom we serve, and, frankly, both republicans and democrats have lost their health insurance over the last couple of years. so we have to work altogether to put the best ideas on the table, to look at the best practices that states are employing and see what we can do without regard to party. host: richard, from georgia, on the independent line. caller: of good morning, governor. -- good morning, governor. years ago the clinton administration talked about unfunded mandate -- unfunded mandates, tried to push environmental issues on funded. the following year i believe that the governors' meeting, they handled the problem handily. do you remember what the first issue that they dealt with at that governors' meeting?

guest: i'm afraid i don't. that was before i took office. caller: what they said was, you work for us. if you want a mandate -- environmental would ever -- you fund it, because we have the power to dissolve the government, the beltway bandits, and they have to be put in their place occasionally by the state and by the people. someone wrote years ago that governments are instituted among men and derive their just powers from the consent of the government, meaning the people. the beltway bandits have taken too much control, gotten away from constitution and trying to run the whole show. the people should have the power. to most of red, thank you. go ahead, governor douglas -- host: alright, thank you. go ahead, governor. guest: i talked about the avoidance of unfunded mandates,

whether medicaid, requiring the real id driver's license program. i understand that the congress is wrestling with fiscal challenges as well, the deficit projected to be over one trillion dollars this coming year. but that still does not give them the right to impose unfunded mandates on the states because we are wrestling with their own budgets as well. we've got to find a way to reduce the cost of health care, because it is such a huge portion of any budget. medicaid alone is over 20% of average state budget, will be 25 percent sign over the next decade and maybe will be in the high 20's. we need, congress to -- congress to respect the fiscal distress. host: there was an article about the debate of clean energy, the regional battle over jobs.

influential coalition of east coast governor's and power companies fears that build in wind and solar sites and the midwest because the region to miss out on jobs and other economic benefits. the coalition is therefore trying to block a mandate for transcontinental lines. first, is vermont part of this coalition, and secondly, what is the future of the energy industry in vermont? guest: we are a part of the coalition of northeastern governors and are concerned about deploying energy resources equally around the country. in vermont we get most of our power from either nuclear plants and the southeast part of our state or from hydropower that is imported from quebec. we have the cleanest for foley and america in terms of the emissions that coming from power producers because those are virtually emissions-free. we believe that. we want to maintain that important environmental standards. the future of energy, i think,

has many facets. i think we should look for all kinds of alternatives. perhaps wind in areas where it makes sense, although i have been reluctant to put them along the pristine region lies in vermont. i think there are small hydro and solar projects that make a good deal of sense. we are looking now at the nuclear power plant that is cost-effective and reliable power for many years in our state. there is one area that i think it's really exciting, and that is in the agricultural sector. there is a national movement called 25 by 25, that is a goal of getting a quarter of our nation's energy from farms, ranches, by 2025. we've got more methane digesters on dairy farms in vermont per- capita than any other state. we turned the most powerful by- product, minorca into electricity. it is exciting because it is a

win-win outcome because it is environmentally sensitive as well. we get nothing from landfills. growing canola seed to mill it into biodiesel. i think there are a lot of exciting things we can do, and we want to make sure federal dollars, whether from the recovery act are recorded fairly around the country. host: kentucky -- michael on the democrats' line. otic come i was listening to "meet the press" yesterday and senator mcconnell said that people didn't have insurance could access it thru going to the emergency room. and i would think, you know, don't we need a better place to go then the emergency room to act as health care? i think that was a very expensive way for americans who don't have insurance to access the health care system. and if the government could come up with some kind of plan for people who don't have insurance

and who don't have money to go to doctors could go to -- we could save all kinds of money. guest: i agree entirely. of the goal has to be to keep people out of emergency rooms because it is expensive, and if they don't have insurance, we all pay for it because of the bill to into the tax dollars of premiums would pay for our own insurance, that is why -- why we need fundamental reform that focuses on improving the health outcomes of the american people. i know all governors are dedicated to that goal, and i think we could really make a difference. host: gov. jim douglas of vermont, joining us from biloxi, mississippi, the site of the national governors' association meeting. guest: thank you. host: we will have more coverage of the national governors' association. the house and senate is in session today. and more discussion on health care, as the house