what we do during a disaster. i welcome reporters to volunteer during a disaster. i think they would be absolutely amazed at what the red cross and our partners do when the country needs us. i think we would make a great reality tv show, actually. [laughter] i think it is a great idea when the american public can learn whatever they can learn, and i would welcome the coverage. it helps people understand our mission, it helps people be generous at the red cross, and i think it would astound and warm the hearts of the readers to see the incredible, heroic, extraordinary feats that people go through to help each other out. >> we have talked about the work that the red cross does in the u.s. what is the role internationally? >> we are part of the

international federation of red cross and red cross societies, and there are 186 members. believe it or not, collectively, we have 97 million volunteers. it is the largest humanitarian efforts in the world. we work with our sister organizations in case there is a global disaster. for example, during the earthquakes in china, we help to people on the ground in china, which coordinated sending over tents for temporary housing. during the tsunami, which coordinated with our sister organization to make sure they got funding, that the american public was so generous with. we're part of the federation. we worked very closely together. we have great relationships. .

>> on july 27, congressman barney frank, a democrat from massachusetts and chairman of the house financial services committee will be here. and on july 29, senator john kerry, a democrat from massachusetts will speak at a luncheon. a second, i would like to present our guest with the coveted the national press club monday. >> this is coveted. [applause] >> we have time for two questions. first of all, give us a little bit of a day in the life of a disaster volunteers since you

experienced that last year. who does this sort of thing? >> a day in the life is remarkably physically demanding. i will describe my particular day. we first went to a very large, empty parking lot where there were kitchens that were capable of making 45,000 meals a day, if you can believe that. these were industrial great kitchens and people were standing there cooking in absolute blistering heat and taking baths of this chili that i described and loading it onto emergency response vehicles. this to a lot of arms and legs. a number of our volunteers were senior citizens and i was not all of their biceps. these people were fit and they were putting these vats of food on the trucks. we drove into the community and

our remember turning to the volunteer and saying that i did not get how this works. how did they know we are here. >> the tobben to watch. we stop on a corner and out of nowhere, people came and understood. there was a big sign on the side of our emergency response vehicles that says that all of this food is free. people came from i don't know how many different places. there were children, there were elderly, it was extraordinarily to look into the eyes of all these people's faces that had just lost everything and their faces were mixed with the spare but also gratitude. it was remarkable. -- with despair but also of gratitude. it was remarkable. within 10 minutes, this guy was handing out water and food.

it gets under your skin. when you help others, you are really helping yourself. in terms of who can volunteer, we have special volunteers that go into these major disasters and like them to volunteer for three weeks at a clip. we have volunteer opportunities. i said that we respond to 70,000 disasters ever year. we have people who are on pagers that give people comfort and makes sure these people have a roof over their heads at night. anyone can volunteer. as i said earlier, i have seen people from every walk of life volunteering. i have seen people from every age and bracket in between. all lot of large companies are now committing volunteer hours. you will see that a lot of firms are willing to train volunteers and send them into disasters.

all kinds of people are there to help people out. >> and for our final question, someone in the audience asks if you are related to former gov. george mcgovern and if so, will you admit it? [laughter] >> mcgovern is my given name. if i were related to the senator, i would definitely admitted. >> i would like to thank you all for coming today. i would also like to thank the staff members, linda cook, pat nelson and howard roffman for organizing today's lunch. also, thanks to the national press club library for its research. the video archive is provided by the national press club broadcast operations center and our events are available for free download on our website. and non-members may purchase transcripts by calling 202-662-

7598 or e-mail and as at the address at the bottom of your screen. please go to our web site. thank you very much and we are jury. -- we are adjourned. [applause] >> here is a look at our schedule. next, on america and the courts, panelists talked about race and the american criminal-justice system. after that, a senate confirmation hearing for several of the obama administration ambassador nominees. later, a hearing on the economic stimulus package but passed last

january. >> the house returns monday at 12:30 p.m. eastern for legislative business at 2. we expect debate on several bills next week which includes defense department spending. the measure calls for $656 million for war operations. it is the last spending measure that needs to be considered by the house for fiscal year 2010. also on the agenda, food safety programs and executive compensation. live coverage of the house on c- span. the senate also returns on monday and plans to begin consideration on energy and water spending. in the next two weeks, the chamber is expected to debate the supreme court nomination of judge sonia sotomayor.

the senate is live on c-span2. >> prime minister gordon brown takes questions on british politics, the economy and afghanistan in his final news conference before the parliament's summer break. > >> this is c-span's america and the courts. the aspen institute holds that a discussion looking at flaws in the criminal justice system and the high number of african- american men in prison.

>> thank you all very much. i am going -- we're going to have a discussion about the american criminal-justice system. there are obviously a lot of things will be talking about. we will want to spend some time at the end of the session to find out what you have learned. there will be a time for questions and answers. not speeches, we hope, but questions. we have a very distinguished group of people here today and to help us with this effort. i'm going to go first to justice sandra day o'connor who has retired and -- retired in 2006. she was appointed by president ronald reagan to keep a campaign promise and she replaced justice

potter stewart and was replaced by justice san alito. she is a stanford grad. that is where she met her husband in the future chief justice. i think it is certainly worth mentioning that arizona state change the name of its long school to the saturday o'connor school of law. the other thing that we know about her is that she considers herself an unemployed cowgirl. i would also like to say she is a member of the cowgirl hall of fame. we also have with us, you're getting low billing because i'm going -- >> entirely appropriate. >> bishop jakes is a television

evangelist, but before he became a television evangelist, he started his own church at the age of 22. he was able to go on television a few years later. you were the white grappled age of 38. but he has, his church is the potter's house in south dallas and has 30,000 members. that is big even in a city were extraordinarily large churches of found and where nearly everybody goes to church, i -- i might add. the potter's house has says many activities as a prison ministry he and his parishioners have worked in south africa and he

offers financial advice to his flock. he has written more than 30 books, including what publishers called novels. there are probably more like parables. two of which been made into movies. when he talks about the justice system, he talks about the to deposits of greatness that are covered over. this is something that is of great interest to him and to charles. he is -- he is the professor of law at harvard.

charles hamilton houston is casually known as the man who killed jim crow. he was the director of the naacp and trained thurgood marshall. he was responsible for just about every civil-rights lawsuit. he founded the institute at harvard. he is a stanford graduate he ultimately moved up into the leadership and has written a number of books and he has appeared on television a lot of

times. both as a moderator and no later and as a source he is interested in, among other things, he is interested in the last council to the hill. these are a very distinguished group of people that we have. we're going to be talking about justice. i wanted to ask you, because i know there are a lot of things we will be talking about. we talk about crime and injustice. i would like to ask, first, what do you think the american justice system does right? >> there are a lot of things

right. we are fortunate because we do have a very strong right to jury trial. if you have a fairly selected jury, i think it is a great assurance to the defendant, if the defendant decides to go to trial, that it can be heard in an appropriate manner. you cannot criticize that too much. there have been a lot of cases dealing with the exclusion of african-americans from juries when there is an african- american on trial. i think that the courts have dealt pretty well with that and try to prevent that from happening. i think that works quite well. and that would be the major thing. we have a decent appellate system in the united states. criminal defendants that are convicted have an opportunity to appeal if they're convicted in

state court through the state court system and then they have a ride for some kind of review in the federal courts -- federal courts. we view it comparatively with other nations. >> bishop, i know that in addition to dealing with people who are incarcerated that you have reserved a lot of your activism for people who are the victims of crime, especially women who have been mistreated. >> from our perspective, it is important that we go beyond the justice that is executed in a trial. we need to be a boys and advocate for that bit of an to be a soft place for them to fall. and we help them reevaluate their lives.

we become a counseling place to let their voices be heard. >> do you think that that is one of the things that works with the american justice system? >> i think it is very important. it is critical that that voice be heard and that it goes beyond justice and the adjudication to understanding that often the victim continues to suffer. even though the perpetrator has been penalized, there is suffering the goes beyond justice in the courts system. this comes not only to the individual and the family and children and there is an opportunity for us to work

together with the judicial system to do those things that the courts cannot do and bring about a peaceful resolve. >> rev. jakes is doing a good job with that. it is clearly a problem. i do not think that every state has resources to do that. he has set up a good program, but i do not think it is universal. >> is not. but it can be. this is something we need to arm ourselves with the responsibility of making sure that it is done. >> professor? >> there are a lot of things about the justice system. let me talk about the good things that are happening. justice o'connor talk about the right to a jury trial. that has been denied a far too often to women and people of african descent and latinas.

i had a lawyer in a criminal case that was part of one of the remarkable things from the warren court. that is the court that said that he should have a lawyer if you're going to be facing prosecution. it is that same court that said that you cannot force confessions from people, even if they are guilty. we need to have the right to a lawyer and waive your rights to testify. one of justice o'connor's former colleagues, justice scalia spoke of the right of confrontation. if someone is going to accuse you, you have the right to confront the witness which sometimes goes against victims right. if someone is one to show you, they must be subject to cross- examination. three amazing things are that

justice kennedy wrote the majority opinion saying that 18- year-old could not be executed anymore and that the mentally retarded could not be executed. if there was a penalty for women and men, it can be a bill to four men and men and women and women to do the same thing. the court has moved beyond those old views. there are a number of great things that the system is doing now. i hope that it continues. >> one of the things that you have written a lot about is that this injustice system in prison -- in prisons and extraordinarily amount of people. why does that happen?

why -- is that injustice? >> it is. i am not blaming a particular prosecutor. we will hear more about this when joseph brier does the panel later this week. the idea is that this is an adversary system and that one side, but did not have the resources and then he did not get a just result. we have over 2 million in half of these. many are men. children as well, there is a problem with the justice system. our website the says no more children left behind bars. i just testified to weeks ago in support of this -- a surprise and non congressional program.

this man is very tough and believes that people should be punished. he says that people should be in jail. his act of 2009 was the most refreshened idea i've heard in a long time about standing back and trying to fix the system because we all have some personal responsibility. i think that those responsibilities of flaws in the system. it is not the court. we to -- we put too much emphasis on the court. >> that is what is important. what has happened nationwide and through the state's is to start enacting mandatory minimum sentences. i used to be a trial judge in the state of arizona. when i had a felony case, my jurisdiction gave me the right to punish the defendant if it were a guilty verdict, with anything from probation to life

imprisonment. that changed. starting about 1980, legislatures began enacting mandatory minimum sentencing and they did it initially in drug cases. they thought that the thing to do was to make sure that anybody caught with drugs that could be sold should get 20 years minimum imprisoned, no excuses. it has resulted in these huge numbers of people in prison. if you compare the percentage of people in prison today with the numbers of other western nations, we lead by 80%. it is staggering. >> is something like one in 100. it is amazing. these are primarily drug cases. these tend not to be violent crimes, but they are crimes of some kind of drug that may be for sale. that is predominantly in it.

we just have to make a decision in this country whether we want to continue that pattern or not. other nations are not doing that. i do not advocate making drug use legal, but i do advocate a examining the system to see if we need these long mandatory minimum sentences. >> added to that, then you have three strikes. that is now in three states -- 24 states. sometimes it is to strikes. if you get 80 years in prison, but not life, i do not know who will live 80 years in prison. justice o'connor, i think this touches on a system that has nothing to do with the courts but with our legislative and executive branches. the idea in the 1980's was to punish drug users. it started with the most inauspicious point.

. people forget this. he adjusted to much cocaine and died of powder cocaine. we were out raids and said we had to do something about drugs. crack cocaine began the conduit and congress passed a law at that said the penalties for crack cocaine would be 100 times more than powder cocaine. they have said now the bills must be punished the same. that will eliminate this disparity based on race. i think that is an important step. >> you have been working with just that problem. >> i think it is a huge problem. it has racial undertones to it

that relates to the african- american community. the other thing that is important to know is that while it was originally thought that tougher laws like this on drugs would diminish drug use, time has proven that that is not true. it is not that we're overpopulating our prisons by these laws, but it is ineffective on the street in diminishing drug use and substance abuse. it is frustrating that there are disparities between the cocaine and crack cocaine. if you have a drug problem, it is treated as a disease. if you move to the other side of the tracks, it is treated as a crime. we need to change, sociologically and psychologically how we view and even how the media presents these people because they will say that this person has a problem and needs treatments and

it is based on their refluent send their race and money. the same person that is a minority and we present them as a criminal, i think that it has a lot to do with it reevaluating the fact that what we have done 20 years ago does not work. we have had time to see it. it has over populated our prisons and has not been effective in diminishing drug abuse. >> it is certainly a political cause. a lot of people ran on getting tough on crime. >> particularly drug crime. today, many steps have big -- many states have big deficits between income and their budget and expenses. part of that expense is running prisons. now, we're seeing a little pressure on the other side to try to reduce the expenses of prisons, which might mean not having as many people in prison

and in some cases, we are reading that it means instead of going from three meals a day to two. people are beginning to look at that. >> vet or releasing people. california's budget is staggering. as much as you want to get tough on crime, you cannot afford to. it is a smart decision to say that we can save millions and probably billions of dollars by reducing our prison population which is an important step. none of this is saying to be soft on crime or not to punish people for these problems, but think of a 16 year-old kid in 1987 when the laws were 100 to one and a 20 year sentence for selling crack cocaine. he'd been is in prison until he is 36. no driver's license, he cannot get a job, can i go back to mom's house, has to report and all these other issues and

cannot contribute to society. they got there are local people the says that not everyone who commits a crime can be punished for their lives. we want to restore them. they can cut grass or painted building. they can be productive, taxpaying, law-abiding citizens. if we do not give them a job, they will be out there doing the same thing at 36 that they were doing at 16 because they don't have a job. >> this is not just lowering the budget, but reallocating resources from incarceration to rehabilitation. we are not spending enough to rehabilitate. our young people have made mistakes similar to anyone, but they get trapped in the system and instead of rehabilitating them, it makes them worse than they were before.

texas is california's rival for the amount of inmates that are incarcerated. we are second only to california. it is probably even more, now. 44,000 employees and we're spending a lot of money just to maintain and incarcerate people. we developed a program and what it is trying to do is catch that in may when he gets off the bus and help him a similar back into society. not only can he not get a job, he cannot rent a place because many places will not rent to people who were incarcerated and in many states cannot vote again. yet, we say he has paid his debt to society. when all the doors are closed to utah -- close to you, you have

very few options. we try to help them to assimilate back into society and help their families to understand that the person coming now is not the same person that went in. >> the question of families, while there are children that have not very many options, this all adds to the cost. >> it is proportionate to the number of men and women who did not have the proper support systems and sometimes, it gains are an issue that we have not talked about, they have replaced the notion of family in the absence of a support base for those individuals. in order to have a sense of family, they go along with the gain and they go to prison and have gains and then they get out and they have no one. this could be anybody.

somebody has to be waiting when they get off the bus to say that we will take you back. the rancher says that we will not take you in the job says that we will not take you in some of them cannot even read above a fifth grade level. they have been in prison for 10 years while they were not really educated and we have not prepared them to be productive and they feel like they have no options. >> there is a shocking lack of rehabilitation efforts these days in prison. particularly, those serving long terms. >> one is that? >> i do not know. it is expensive to do and i do not think that many states think they get a good return on their money anyway because the statistics on people who get out and commit crimes again are not encouraging. but if you do not do any rehabilitation while they are in there, of course the statistics will be higher. i think that prisons and other countries and western nations

are trying to do much more than we are in terms of rehabilitation. we need to work on that. >> let me ask you about this question of money. one of the huge contributing factors is the relative levels of incarceration of minority people to white people. what about that? is raised more important than money? >> i do not understand the question. >> i assume that if you have the money, you can afford a better lawyer. you can afford investigators. >> maybe, maybe not. i do not think you're talking about a lot of people of high income levels who are getting away with something. we saw one yesterday that just got 150 years for heaven's sakes. i do not think that is the

argument at all. i think that the main thing is whether we are going to do some rehabilitation and if we are going to stop this long term mandatory minimum sentencing and whether we will change what we do in the area of drug offenses. >> on a grass roots level, i see it a little bit differently. we have had hands-on experiences with people whose children were arrested for a crime who could not afford lawyer and things were going very negatively. maybe they could not afford a lawyer and could not afford the investigation. we got together and put as little as $5,000 towards the case and the young men ended up being released because it enabled them to do the proper investigation that they needed to get him off the charges. they found out he was not guilty. for $5,000 or $10,000 to affect the next 20 years of this guy's life, the beat -- the media

makes it so highly video, -- visible. some do not get real justice because they do not know who talked to. they do not see the criminal justice system as an ally and a shrink back and do not get that. >> we have a pretty good public defender system. not all nations have that. i think that is one of the positives. in this nation, we have established these jurisdictions. these are highly qualified people. let me tell you about a project i would like to see. i would like to see some jurisdiction that pays both for public prosecutors and they pay the bill for public defenders,

have those people to change roles every five years and a public prosecutor becomes a public defender and vice versa. believe me, it would work. >> there is justice. >> i completely embraced the first half of the proposal. for this reason, we have public defenders, but they are very different. there is crisis in the state of georgia. forces is a good system when ucla the justice come to court. they do not have lawyers until years after they have been detained and are brought to trial. i want to say a word about the wonderful word that the pastor's organization is doing at the potter's house. it is a great program to meet the people on the bus. the reality is that it is too late and i applaud the mayor of

oakland and the mayor of newark for working with the mayors and getting them involved six months before their release. what marketable skills do they have? or will they be living? can you imagine a social services organization trying to solve all these problems the community will ask where they live. it seems to me that the mayor's should say that these young men and women are being released in december. the former mayor and give us the second chance at. there was a second chance law that had too little money. it was not about them and us.

they're coming back to your neighborhood and into your grocery stores and to your schools into your churches. it seems to me the you should figure out a way to make sure they are seamlessly brought back into the community and not become a problem. >> if we could prepare them six months in advance, which i think is a wonderful thing to do on the grass roots level. we have been encouraging churches to adopt a prisoner. it cannot begin the relationship with the individual when they get off the bus, it has to start on the inside, or they do not trust you. we need to have mandatory testing for hiv aids before they get out. we will never be able to fight the ramifications of this disease in our community when we have inmates that have been forced into sexual situations and come out of prison and do

not know their status and infect their wives and girlfriends. many times, they leave the penal institution, not knowing they are hiv-positive and they're walking around shooting people with a gun every time they have sex because they do not know they are. they are not always going to be responsible and use condoms. >> a federal judge in washington d.c. was on a committee that issued a report about rape in children's and the talks about the spread of hiv. he was a tough prosecutor. if you win, congratulations. if you lose, you're going to be there for the rest of your life. the idea is that there were victims of collateral crimes. it seems to me that we have a

societal of making sure that no one is released without having that. there is this reluctance to say that i have a disease, particularly among blacks. >> we're not realistic. many of those young black men are young men. could you imagine being a young men and in a prison institution. they are not want to talk about what happened to them because of their fears of homophobia. they will come out and try to prove that they are ok by having as many women as possible and now we have a crisis in our community where black women are disproportionately being infected and the penal system is contributing to that because we will not spend the dollars to have them tested ahead of time.

>> something that is a related issue is the question of young people in prison who are there because they had some sort of gang association and they were tried as adults. does that need to be changed? do we need some sort of way and to change the laws that govern when a person can -- new long >> that will be hard to do. if we start at age 18, that is one to be awful hard to get that change. if you're old enough to vote, you're old enough to understand not to commit a crime treat i think we should work on some of these other things. >> i do not think it is the 18 year-old but i am worried about,

it is the end -- it is the preteens and the teenagers that are prosecuted and spend time in adult prisons. >> what percentage of those were prosecuted as adults? not many. but it is actually quite a substantial number. it has changed since local jurisdictions have said that the idea is before you could be treated as a result, there was a waiver process fall that is gone. this is a legislative decision. there were certain drug offenses. laws against gains make sense. but laws against everyone, overreach was the problem.

in fact, the whole idea was punishing the gang members. that is about to order 20 endorsements. that kind of prevention is the difference between a gangbanger and a kid. we keep talking about intervening kids. these are kids that are fourth and fifth grade and they are mentors the safe to come with me. we do not have a community out there that are being recruited by gains. we focus on curfews.

it is happening when no parents are home. if we want to think smart about crime, we will think about those that are hanging out on the streets. >> let me change the subject to something that i suppose is related. does the jury system work? >> i think it does. i sat as a trial judge in many criminal cases and i had many cases go to a jury. i only remember to or maybe three, and all those years, when i thought that the jury just got it plain wrong.

i have been impressed with -- maybe it is in part that they carefully instructed jury. my experience is. >> do you think the jury's boston and >> no because days are told not to consider the ascendance. they're not to consider the sentence. >> i grant you that i have a movie of the week view of this. but one gets the impression that jury nullification is the only thing that stands between defendants who stand between -- >> i do not agree at all. there are some cases where the

sentence goes back to the jury after a sentence of -- after a conviction. really, i think the jury system -- 29 >> she controls this. when your judge, you can monitor that. you control the evidence as it comes through. that is important. that is not where the problems exist. we have got a remarkable issue that does not deal with race and gender or class. it is these text in jurors who want to find out what this person is charged and they do

their own research and you only find out about that after the fact because justices can give instructions but you do not know what the word doing after 5:00. this is around the country. that is a frightening idea and that the jurors are taking upon themselves to find out what the case is really about. >> a competent trial judge will take care of that. you tell them they cannot do that. >> they hear that, but they do not follow that. no one is going home with them. you cannot discover because people will never tell you that they are blogging. that undermines the system on both sides. the race problem is that we've

virtually eliminated but not yet, there are still prosecutors that think that the zeal to win is more important than justice. you want to win because you want to put a bad guy or girl behind bars, but when you start striking people because you're assumptions about their race or their gender, that is very problematic. i have one case in 1990. he killed a very prominent white woman in georgia and was convicted and sentenced to death. the prosecutors struck a the black jurors. i think this was judge souter's first opinion and he wrote an opinion reversing that sentence. he said there are some things that you cannot do. -- reversing -- reversing that sense and he said that there are some things that you cannot do.

it is not whether a person is guilty but whether or not instructions of the fall. >> it made but it is remarkable to me. you can independently, while you're sitting here, send out information and send information whether it be accurate or inaccurate. there are no laws or guidelines to control this. it is a scary thing to leave that to the judicial system. >> we had a few trials that have been stopped because the judge -- somebody has told the judge that they got a sweet from a juror and it was during the course of the trial.

it does make you wonder that if you know about this many, how many do you not know about? >> you do not know ones that go underground. there is no way of controlling them. people will ask if you read anything or heard anything in the person will say no. there is a flaw in the system that has to be addressed. i think it will acquire the change injuries systems to save you cannot discuss at any level in any way, electronically or otherwise. they know it because they do it anyway and it probably will not get caught. >> one thing that happened recently in terms of prosecutions is that the population of young women appears to be going up.

why is that? what we think about that? >> we think that women can do all kinds of things. i guess they can commit crimes, too. if they do, they ought to get caught. >>i do not think that is a negative. >> it is certainly not a negative, but it is a complicated issue. >> but in domestic violence -- >> that is something to talk about. >> what exacerbates the problem even more is the whole problem of women being pregnant while they are serving their sentence.

would you see women incarcerated, it opens up a plethora of issues that men do not have to deal with. i think we will see stars in families for many generations to come. >> there are women who are prosecuted in some to prison and you rarely ever prosecute the pimps or the johns. they are not visible. there are now part of the system. it becomes a revolving door in terms of hiv aids. one thing that one judge did was with a coloring book for the girl's children who were sitting in the courtroom and seeing their kids in the court room.

she worked on not breaking the family bond. even if they are in prison, the fact that the family continues. that is the judge that is trying to do something she has to follow guidelines, but she can do something that she thinks might affect this child's ability to follow the footsteps. the same thing with girls, the 9-13-year-old, they find themselves in the system and will look like everybody else. they got a drug problem and a truancy problem but the full story from being molested as a child -- the problem started after being molested as a child. one thing that is remarkable is

that there is a remarkable class connection to crime. you do not see a lot of rich people that are going to jail. there is this class, race issue that is prevalent. let me just say this. we're talking to a largely white male and female audience. i say this every time i go somewhere to speak. you're part of the mentors that make a difference. you may not see these people, but you cannot think that meant for ship is either racially or gender based. there are people that have the skills and the ability to make an enormous difference. do not count yours ouyourself o. you have the compassion to solve the problem. do not wait for someone else to do it. everyone has to take a role. >> i am going to count that as

an idea that works because we're supposed to talk about that during the course of this conversation. justice o'connor, wonder what you think is an idea. >> i like the notion of getting people involved as mentors or helpers' to people who are incarcerated. i know a number of women that are involved in a program to help women who are incarcerated. and women who have families in particular. the contact with them while they're still in prison and then try to help when they're released. i applaud the programs of that kind. >> to talk to the bishops and

that you're trying to release prisoners on another path. you also have programs, and i wonder if you think any of these are worth passing on. >> i think it is imperative. one thing on the table, we're getting ready to do a program called fishers of men. most young men have never been fishing. their world is so small and their exposure is so limited that the people that are making decisions about them actually live in two different worlds altogether.

the ratio of men in our church that have never been fishing is immensely high because it did not have fathers to take them fashion. they could be 40 years old and never held a fishing rod in their life. we're having a totally different experience the things that we do that are activity oriented are limited by budget and exposure. we have to get to the port in this country that we cross pollinate beyond race and language and we bring each other into the same world of opportunity. we can cause those young people to vote for a better day. i want to mention the senate may be a low controversial, but we also have an obligation.

mr. president but we have has changed but the typography of how young people now have someone to admire. we have to make it cool to be smart. the cannot do that for themselves. the people like that make decisions. when they see images of people that look like the of that are applauded for positive things, it gives them something to aspire to. they then get the exposure and that's some of what we're developing with fishers of men. >> it is now your turn. >> there in the back. there are microphones that are wondering around the room. if you would stand up and indicate that you want one of

the microphones, we will get one to you. >> that was a terrific presentation. >> a couple of you mentioned how we can think about the problem in the economic process so we might have to cut back on prison populations. if we do not test for hiv ahead of time, what we pay the cost later. i was wondering what you think is the most effective political message for confronting this problem. is it talking about economic terms? convergys not afford to keep this many people in prison? or is it more about talking about justice and values? >> it is in a state legislature, the jolly well better talk dollars and cents because they are trying to meet a budget, so it is smart in that sense to talk in terms of what it does to

the budget. >> whereas, as it relates to the voters, you have to talk about it from a more responsibility level. . .

. . .

let's start in order of recognition with secretary salazar. >> thank you very much chairman

spread and ranking member ryan and all the members of the committee. it is an honor to be here today to speak on this subject that is very important to this nation and to all of you and members of the congress and it is a particular honor to be here with my colleagues and friends, secretary of agriculture tom vilsack and secretary of transportation ray lahood. i was sworn in as president obama's secretary of interior just over six months ago. we were in the throes of a crisis which is the worst economic crisis we have seen since the great depression. we are losing 700,000 jobs a month. bank lending was frozen and we were at the risk of falling off an economic cliff not seen for over 100 years in america. the economic crisis, president obama and this congress inherited was years in the making, years of lax oversight coming years of irresponsible behavior at the highest level, years of problems that

unfortunately could not be solved overnight. let there be no doubt america's recovery will take time. make no mistake, we have come a long ways in the six months since january. our economy is stabilizing. help is reaching those hardest hit by this recession. confidence is returning and america has begun to rebuild. the recovery act is working. we see it working through the investments that the department of interior is making through the recovery act. congress entrusted the department of interior with the responsibility of investing $3 billion to create jobs, restoring america's national parks and treasured landscapes, building clean driing water infrastructure for earl communities, fixing and upgrading aging schools and taking on critically important projects for the nation. we are making these investments swiftly. on the 18 month timeline

established by congress. we are also making these investments responsively. we want to make sure that we get it right as you would want us to do. we want to ensure that taxpayer dollars are not going to waste. every project must be worthy of the public's expenditure. every contract must be completed and a fair and open manner and everything we do must be transparent and open to public scrutiny. we are meeting these goals and i am proud of the results that we have seen so far. since congress passed the recovery act, in tear and its agencies have identified 3,382 projects which meet the high standards that we have set. that is 3,382 projects which we are overseeing. 90% of the $3 billion we are investing is helping us meet the long deferred payments built up in recent years on roads, trails, facilities, water infrastructure and habitat that we manage. the national park system alone

has over $8 billion in deferred maintenance priorities and there are more deferred maintenance projects on the 500 million acres or 20% of the nation's land mass that we manage on behalf of the american people but we are making swift progress. since we released our finer list in late april, interior has obligated freehanded $5 million in recovery act funding which we estimate has already created more than 3,000 jobs. by the end of october we will have obligated nearly $1.1 billion in the next six months we expect to obligate another $1 billion. the pace is consistent with construction base nature of the majority of projects. justice you can't build a new house overnight, some of our projects will take time to complete. they will however employee people at every step of the way. surveyors, architects, contractors, carpenters, plumbers and electricians not to mention all those who build and

sell materials going into these projects come companies to sell solar panels, all of these people and businesses will have an opportunity to go to work. we are seeing the recovery act investments in communities all across the country. it is companies like d.l. them country in bozeman montana request you will see in this picture. at inner mall construction season employees 35 people but this year there was no work for the employees at blm. they bid on 20 jot celeste oner. that is how bad it was, 20 jobs and got none. they got none. since then they have lost to recovery act bids including a $7.1 billion road project in the end north dakota. brad lewis, this is a person of america, citizen of america who says the following. the day that the recovery act

quote made the difference for the company this year. they have hired workers. they are getting moving again. aidid companies like htc architects in salt lake city, jill jones is the owner of this company. she says she would have lost over one-third of her staff without the recovery act working for her firm and doing national park service and federal work she's doing. thanks to the project, they are holding strong. for employees know their jobs are secure. she says the recovery act has changed the confidence level, the confidence level of the 22 people working here she says and i believe it has a ripple effect of across the country is more and more of these projects hit the ground and it is people like kelly canton. he is a carpenter for nord and management services of boise, idaho and one of 34 tradesmen and laborers working on the renovation of the san francisco bay national wildlife refuge

headquarters. he says, i come from idaho where the little towns are getting hurt first. latta people used to work for have lost everything. here in california they have never seen it so bad. the stimulus money has cut through the red tape and put this to work. i would be out of a job without it. we are hearing from a lot of small businesses like these, a large percentage of interior has been awarded to small disadvantaged businesses and we will hear more stories in the coming months ago in the next eight months we will begin an additional $1.8 billion of3gx wk that will create a safe 19,000 more jobs in this country. and that the recovery act we will see a school fixed in standing rock north dakota and a school rise on the indian lands in arizona. we will see for under 50,000 people in rural communities of south dakota it clean drinking water from three new water treatment filities. we will see drought stricken communities in california get

some help and we will make down payments on long-term infrastructure needs in california and around the country. we will see more and more young people get to work in the outdoors because the fish and wildlife service's northeast region has doubled the size of its youth conservation corps. unemployment is the highest. we have brought young people to work on many of these public projects much in the same way as franklin delano roosevelt did in 1930's through the civilian conservation corps. mr. chairman and ranking member ryan, members of the committee look forward to working with you to insure we are implementing the recovery act swiftly, as openly and responsibly as the american people deserve. the office of inspector general and interior is also a key partner with us for helping implement the recovery act with a very robust set of internal controls to ensure adequate oversight and management of these funds. we take our responsibilities seriously under the law, a very seriously and we can report today that the recovery act is

working. itonñ is helping stabilize ourw economy, it is putting people back to work and it is helping us protect our nation's treasured landscapes for generations to come. thank you mr. chairman. >> mr. salazar thank you now secretary vilsack. >> mr. chairman, thank you to you and the ranking member and to members of this committee for the opportunity to be here today and i want to thank secretary salazar and secretary lahood for their service and i'm proud to be with them this morning. i appreciate the opportunity to report to you on the united states department of agriculture's work on the recovery act and believe that our report for aware flack recovery act is working. is transitioning america from bad times to better times and getting the work accomplished around the nation the americans want done. investments we are making are not only creating economic stability but also funding the technology and infrastructure that will lay the groundwork for

future economic growth. when president obama took office we were indeed as you have indicated mr. chairman, facing the worst economic crisis in modern times. the economy was in fact losing 700,000 jobs from month and shrinking at a rate of 6.3%. foreclosures were at record levels and housing investment had fallen by more than 40%. major financial institutions for failing and credit was indeed frozen. clearly, doing nothing in the economic crisis was not an option. less than eight decades ago we experienced a dramatic negative implications for an action. we have seen the people hit hardest are ordinary americans to struggle to put food on the table, clothe their children and maintain housing. we also know that every day we fail to act the long-term implications in the road to our financial stability is poised for theroux way if not years into the future. thankfully, many of the folks who lived through the great depression are still among us. it would have been an affront to

their experience if we did not do better this time and take action to save our children from some of the suffering and hardship they endured in their formative years. pn wrestling economy did offer a chance for us to be both responsive and proactive to the passage of the recovery act. fortunately we will never know the full scope and duration of the pain america would have endured at the nation had not been mobilized into action. in less than 150 days the recovery act has work to stabilize the economic conditions and help those harmed by the economic crisis. the problems that led the nation to the created over several years and cannot be instantly solved. we have created the stability needed to get us there and are making strides in helping those negatively affected by the downturn. from the perspective the usda we are reaching out to every american every day to improve lives and prepare for future economic prosperity. in less than 150 days usda has announced the availability of

$27.4 billion of the 28 billion of funds provided through the recovery act. we have provided more than 45,636 loans to americans who ar deeply infected by the economic crisis and the beacon implementation of more than 1,000 recovery act projects. usda has provided additional resources there are nutrition assistance program. over 33 million americans received a 13.6% increase in benefits under the supplemental nutrition assistance program. for mostñw7 families of for ths an extra $80 per month at the grocery store. in fact creates $800 million a month in direct stimulus to the economy. research suggests that every dollar in spending results and $1.84 in total economic activity and further, our data indicates that 97% of funding received through this program is spent within 30 days of receipt.

some of the other accomplishments today at usda include 43,000 housing loans, 2006 hundred 36 direct operating loans to farmers and 1,081 of those going to-- and 600 going to socially disadvantaged farmers. three ander 23 water and waste projects, 600 community facility projects, more than 100 watershed projects, 288 flood plain easement projects, 169 while fire management projects and 343 capital improvement projects in our forest service. we are particularly enthusiastic about the rural broadband funding provided and under the recovery act which provides $2.5 billion to provide broadband services to underserved and unserved communities to position them for the next generation of economic growth. mr. chairman considering the state of the economy at the

close of 2008 we are in a remarkable position. including loans and guaranteed loans we have announced $48 billion of the $52 billion in program level funding for more than 92% of the program level funding provided to lessen the statute. governmentwide, about 20% of the funds have been put to work in about 24% of the days of the recovery act. we are on track but it is important for us to stay focused on the mission at hand it to continue our commitment. it is going to take time. the law was designed for two years of action and it is critically important we see the plan through. it is going to take courage to hold their ground and remain committed to the program of recovery for the american people. mr. chairman, usda is up to this challenge. in pratt to represent the men and women of our department and i will be happy to respond to questions from members of the committee after secretary lovette has given his comments.

..

and with unprecedented transparency and accountability to finance transportation projects throughout america. today i want to share our accomplishments and plans for the future. today the department has made nearly half of its funds, $22 billion available to states so they can greenlight priority projects to rebuild and modernize roads, bridges, transit systems, airports and seaports. we have improved over 6,600 projects for highways and other transportation projects nationwide. of those, more than 3,200 rhodes, transit and airport improvement projects are underway right now. with our model agencies are doinan . . .

. approved. and for public transit and unprecedented $3.2 billion in grants have already been awarded and another 5 billion is in the pipeline. in the coming months we will begin awarding grants from the 8 billion-dollar fund to develop a high-speed passenger rail corridors, which has generated a great deal of interest and excitement around the country. and our discretionary $1.5 billion tiger grant program will investing priorities which are multi modal projects to make sure more competitive and enhanced livability and sustainability. thanks to the excellent staff

work and productive relationships with state dot officials every state that the congressional deadline to obligate 50% of the highway formula funds allocated to them within the first 120 days which is what congress asked us to do. transit agencies around the country are on track to meet a september 1st deadline for the same milestone with 50% of the formula funds obligated. and speaking to governors, mayors, state transportation officials and private contractors all over the country i have been, since i was sworn in on january 27, 24 states and 41 cities, and i have found there is widespread agrment that without these well timed federal investment in the infrastructure and state services, our economy would probably be in much more worse shape. while the recovery act cannot make up for all the jobs the economy has shed every single

job and helps protect or count as a victory. over 5,000 jobs have already been supported through spending on transportation projects and we estimate that over 500,000 jobs will eventually be supported once the full effect of the recovery act is felt in the transportation industry. 500,000. i also want to highlight the success in overseeing the complex program while keeping the promise to america to meet the highest standards for transparency and accountability and i am happy to report that in all 50 states and territories not a single case of serious abuse of funds has been identified. that is a remarkable achievement for a fast moving program of this scope and i'm very proud to say no earmarks, no sweetheart deals, no boondoggles. a share of the credit goes to the d.o.t. management team for

the recovery act known as the tiger team to help keep on our implementation on track, keep the funds flowing and create a system for meeting all congressional requirements. in@@@@@@@ @ @ @ @ @ gb@ @ @ @ @ i am confident that years from now when we look back on the american recovery and reinvestment act we will recognize the investments we've

made and infrastructure, energy conservation, education and other vital needs market turning point in our economy. the american people have said loud and clear they want us to rebuild the roads and bridges, build clean and green public transportation systems to help ease traffic and justin. we are putting americans to work doing just that. i look forward to any questions any of you may have. thank you, mr. chairman. >> let me just review the bidding so to speak. the recovery act provided $787 billion in spending and tax relief. 183 billion of that has been obligated on july 10th. which means 28.8% has been obligated. nearly one-third, nearly 30%. but if you go through -- and you've made powerful testimony, each one of you with concrete

evidence and with anecdotal illustrations to the effect -- the fact this is working and if we have not donner we wouldn't be suffering severe consequences or catastrophic conditions. but in mainstream american people are still saying i don't see the relief yet. i don't feel it. when can we tell the american people that more benefits than more effect of this particular project recovery act are going to be felt and seemed in our daily lives and their job and work and things of this nature? can you give any sort of expectation like that that we can carry back to our constituents? >> mr. chairman, i would say first of all we are already seeing the effect on the ground through the illustrations that i and my colleagues had. there are already people who otherwise would not be working if the congress had not taken the action that it took and the president's leadership and that resulted in the stimulus package so i think the effects are

already seen on the ground. secondly, this is a program that is supposed to work overtime. it was not supposed to essentially be the magic one that from one day to another would take the economy out of the deep ditch it had gotten into, and so the congress right fully set forth in a longer-term program or 18 months to get the money out. and so you will see jobs created during that time period but also into the future. and our own process and the department of interior we recognized in the contracts we are letting out we will have people employed now and into the future but also there is a very positive economic impact of these investments because they will create jobs long term. the kind of projects we are investing in are going to create a part of the economic engine for ten, 15, 20 years down the road but i think the american people are going to see the effects in a very significant way. >> thank you.

>> mr. chairman, i'd start by saying 33 million americans are today receiving the benefit of increased payments and food assistance payments. as i indicated in my testimony family of four on average will get about $80 more to be able to spend at the grocery store and because it generates economic activity by virtue of the fact that 97% of those resources are spent in the first 30 days, it means more rigorous the items have to be stocked, more have to be trucked and processed. more product has to be sold in order to process the additional food that's being purchased. so 33 million americans are getting benefits right now today and have been the last several months. i would also say that if you spend any time at all and food banks as i have, you will see that the additional emergency food assistance that the recovery act provided is helping a lot of families have nutritious meals particularly for america's children. we have unfortunately still

today in this country 600,000 children who are hungry. these food banks make a big difference in the lives of those youngsters. third, i would say that when you are looking at, as i've indicated, several hundred facility project these are for the most part construction projects putting people to work and the chances are very good these are local contractors. they are expanding libraries, building day care centers, they are working on expanding health care facilities in several communities. at the same time those activities are taking place, several thousand people are already working today on the forest service projects and roughly 3700 folks are employed because the watershed work that we are doing and the water treatment plants we are building. in those communities, and there are roughly 40 states that have been impacted by these benefits, in those 40 states when people turn on the tap in many of these communities they are going to have clean drinking water.

so, while there will be time for additional jobs being created as a result of our investments i think it's important to see this recovery act in three components. first, allowing people to transition for tough times. that's why you expand on and limit benefits and provide tax relief to 95% of working families and increase net benefits. at the same time we are doing the work americans want on the want their roads improved. they want bridges to be safe. they want dams to hold the water. they want to improve their community facilities in rural areas. that is taking place, it will continue to take place the next 15 months. and at the same time, americans understand we wit to our children and grandchildren to build a foundation for a 21st century economy which is why high-speed rail, the broadband initiative, the smart great investments that will be made will build a much stronger, long-term economy for this country. so, it will take some time for folks to see on and when rates drop. but the fact that the stock market stabilized, the fact that credit is a bit more available,

the fact that there is a better attitude in terms of long term i think is a reflection some of the work of recovery act has done. >> i will add to this question to you think that we undersold boosting expenditures in the projects in particular surface transportation project -- to think the request was $32 billion of the amount that finally came through was $20 billion. there was some dispute whether or not the highway money could be schoeppel ready and put a quick use. do you think we undersold the potential of the highway -- highway investments? >> mr. chairman, i will tell you what the reality is that the money is -- much of this money is out the door. as i said, i've been to 24 states and 41 cities around the country and everywhere i go i see orange cones all over america and i see thousands of

people working. and i talked to these people. all of these people i talk to, without exception, were on unemployment in january and february and march and they are working today. they are building roads, building bridges, buildings runways at airports. every airport i've flown into this taken advantage of the billion dollars that is now out the door and people are resurfacing runways, resurfacing roads. part of the problem for us at the dot is that we said we wanted projects that were ready to go. well, in order to have the states to spend the money the legislature had to meet in some instances legislatures had to appropriate the money for the project and some legislatures have taken their time doing that. other legislatures had to pass capital budgets in the instance of illinois which the governor just signed, which is to match money where some projects under t. lu. there was no match under this. so, whatever delays were caused were caused by the fact that

legislatures in some states wanted to have their say on how our money was going to be spent. but there are a lot of projects going on in america. and there's a lot of money out the door over $20 billion is out the door and almost 7,000 projects are funded and many of them are under way. i just met with some folks from the michigan delegation where they don't have the kind of match money they need for some of these projects under the team will bill and we figured out a way to help them soak in instances where states have had difficulty we've worked with them but i believe we've made a difference. i believe that if you look around your districts, and i say this to every member. and you go to these projects and talk to people that are working what they will tell you is they were on and on and play that role in january and february and now they can make their house payment and car payment, put food on the table for their

families. that could not have happened without these funds. and i thank converse for the courage to pass this kind of opportunity for america. we are putting people to work. >> thank you. >> in gainesville wisconsin which is my hometown and a town i represent the admin plenary is 13.2%. it's just about at that level in every other county represented. so we all want to get this right. this is the worst we have seen in most of our lifetimes. so, getting the stimulus and getting the recovery might really matters and that's why some of us are concerned we are not applying the right medicine at the right time for the economy to get jobs growing. that's why we are concerned about the forecast of many economists that we are going to have a jobless recovery and that's why we are also very concerned even though the stimulus is starting to possibly be can write a around the corner at the end of next year massive tax increases are already coming

into the law. tax increases on investment capital, tax increases on workers, tax increases on small businesses, and now we have a proposal that we may be voting on next year that's going to put more tax increases on business is bringing their top tax rate above 50%. so we think the fiscal policy coming out of congress, this can't we is the wrong fiscal policy. a week ago i went over to the bureau of public debt. ms. loomis and i did this, and we spent about five minutes watching smart employees of the treasury department in a room with a bunch of flat screen tvs sipping coffee borrowing $40 billion in about four minutes. and we are doing this every day the treasury department. and we are being told by economists and bond traders there is going to come a day where we can't keep borrowing all this money. there will come a day we are not going to feed be able to fill a bond sale or there will come a day when our finance years, 48%

of whom are foreign governments namely china and japan are now going to do it. and so, doing this on all of this borrowed money has its limitations. so that is just a real concern that we have on this side of give and we were led to believe that this would cap the employment at 8% and now we are at 9.5 and going to ten. are worried that this isn't working so have a quick question for each of the three of you. secretary salazar, one of the areas where we think we can get shuffle ready projects or we think we can get good jobs and one of the concerns we have with the federal reserve and what it's doing is we are fueling another commodity bubble. that means we will have higher gas prices around the corner just like we had a year ago which will dampen economic activity. we've got trillions of cubic feet of natural gas, billions of barrels of oil on hartel in the country, under our own ground most of which are federal land. will the administration, whether

it is the intermountain region for gas and oil, eckert continental shelf or alaska, while the administration this year lift the moratorium on this drilling and accelerate and move toward increasing the leasing so we can drill for oil and gas in our own country, create all those jobs and try to reduce not only the dependency on foreign oil to keep prices low. >> thank you very much, ranking member ryan. let me first say on your comment with respect to the debt issue, the fact of the matter is this is a challenge which was inherited by president obama and this congress. >> absolutely. >> you were here at the time and remember the conversations about the amount of debt created as medicare part d'huez past and acts taken that created this mountain of debt -- >> i will simply add we passed a budget resolution that triples that did in the next ten years. >> i would just say to all of

you here i think that it is an opportunity for this nation to come together and address the fiscal reality that we have to face because it's been ignored for far too long. and as you heard from the president as he was in no how you yesterday and other places he is focused on making sure that we have accountability, accountability and we invest the fiscal challenge including with a huge deficits that have been built up and so it's something that is very much on the mind of the president and on the mind of clear >> we are working on a comprehensive energy plan. we don't believe there's a one-way highway to energy in the united states. a one-way highway has meated america vul ner able to the dangers of dependence ones foreign oil and threatened our

economy due to the fact that we exporter so much oil to these other places. we have been working like a team. to develop the president's division plan. we continue to leave vast portions of land for oil and gas production, held leases in the gulf of mexico for over a million acres have been leases. >> we'll have a comprehensive plan but also charge a new any underly that will address these determine on term challenge.

clear clear are under existing moratorium and those areas where the moratorium is lifted and we will have under the plan we have in place we have provided until september 20th for public comment on places that are inappropriate for drilling and exploration and those that are not. >> you haven't decided yet, is that not decided answer? >> the answer is that there are places where the d.a. has been very theoretical and hypothetical debate in large part because we don't have the information to make decisions for example of the atlantic and so we are being thoughtful as we move forward and the time that we've taken that will take us to september 20 it will help make sure we are jeweling in the right places. >> so stay tuned you're saying? >> stay tuned. >> secretary vilsack, you come from iowa, i come from southern wisconsin. we have similar agricultural

economies, so i feel i can relate to the kind of economy we have agricultural life. the administration had what i thought was a good proposal in its budget to capitol direct payment for farmers with over $500,000. but resigned when 7 billion in savings over ten years. mr. blumenauer and i come here on the budget committee tried to pass that amendment and failed to do that in the budget resolution. i encourage you to continue advancing these things as we have got to find savings. what is the administration's proposal to continue on this and have you had other success in other committees suggest agricultural committee? >> representative ryan, we are working hard with the treasury department to try to make sure we first and foremost in sure the payments that are to be received or received by those entitled to them. as you probably know there were reports on anecdotal reports of people who were not farmers receiving payments. we are working with the irs and we hope to ensure and verify

people receiving payments are in fact entitled to them and we think there will be savings there. we are in the process of looking at a number of other ways there could potentially be savings. this year is the year which we will be discussing crop insurance in the deal we have with insurance companies. we think that deal needs to be examined and looked at so the taxpayers receive a fair share and farmers receive a fair shake so there are opportunities there as well as we are continuing to look for ways in which we can do a better job shepherding taxpayer money. the president challenged his department's to begin that process with $800 million challenge. i can tell you at usda just in our department alone we can beat about one-third of that challenge in the first 60 days in terms of resources that we are saving and resources we are not spending as have been planned. >> i know we are made for build this proposal was made mid farm

bill to cap direct payments over 500,000 a g.i.. i just want to get clear because i support this and i think you're in the right direction. are you going to be advancing this in the next budget solution? >> there's been criticisms about the format and we are going to continue to work with folks to look for ways in which we can ensure that the assistance and the safety net farmers rely on and depend on and clearly we have seen a need for this this year. you mentioned your state of wisconsin. i was in wisconsin recently and as you well know there is a serious problem with dairy farmers in the state and we've been spending a great deal of time figuring out how to help and assist them. i would ask you since we are sort of neighbors, you might be helpful to us in terms of being able to respond to those kind of crisis if you gave a little more flexibility in terms of section section 32. if you didn't quite direct as much of it and gave a little bit

more flexibility we might be able to have responded more effectively than we have. >> that is a good suggestion. secretary ray lahood, comforted that you're in this job because i know you are a man of great integrity who is going to watch how we spend our dollars wisely and on transportation. i support the highway program and it's important to our state. the highway trust fund was intended to be user financed and that was the idea and most people support that concept but it's broken and it needs to be fixed. last year we transfer 8 billion to pass the shortfall we provided 27 billion in stimulus funds and the general fund now the highway trust fund needs another 20 billion. we have two seasons in wisconsin. winter and road construction season. so, timing of these fixes actually matters. so, what is the administration's proposal to fix this problem. was the timing in your mind in to your support general fund financing of the highway

program? >> well, we have put forth a proposal to the leadership to extend the current highway bill for 18 months which we believe would cost $20 billion we have told congress that we would find the money and pay for it. so we are not for the idea just taking money from the general fund and watching it over in the highway trust fund. we think we should pay for it. the senate has passed the extension. there's three committees of jurisdiction in the senate and all three of those committees have passed that. we're looking now for the house to do the same thing. we think the idea that congress could pass a very comprehensive robust transportation bill by the time this one expires is just not possible. you all know it's not possible to do it by september 30th. so rather than doing these three months six months or whatever extensions and just kind of, you

know, leading people along that we are going to get somewhere we think and 80 month extension gives the chance to work with all of you on a very robust bill that helps find the resources not only to use the highway trust fund which is deficient, i wouldn't call what broke, it is deficient though because people are driving less, driving more fuel efficient cars and so not as much money is going to the trust fund and we've offered some sort of think outside the bachus ways of paying for our roads and bridges including tolman and infrastructure bank and including public-private partnerships and some other mechanisms for using the highway trust fund. our idea which we think is a good one is given a 80 month extension. we will find the $20 billion to plug it. we are all going to transfer money from one fund to another to do it, and that gets to the opportunity willing to work with all of you on a very good

comprehensive transportation bill. >> thank you. >> we have a vote as you can see and i am going to miss the first vote so we can keep going but the second vote we will recess so we can go vote and cast four votes to be a i understand mr. salazar you may need to leave by 11:30 and it so we appreciate you coming. if the other two witnesses could stay until we return we will make available office space to you so you can make use of the time. thank you very much and those of you who've been in congress understand the situation i'm sure. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thanks to each of you. you have had about six months to clean up a great mess that took years to accumulate. and some of those who have had little to say about this economic recovery act but varying forms of the phrase no, never are ironically now complaining both that we are

spending too much money in washington but we are not spending it fast enough i think that you and your employees could stand at the front door with a shovel koschel voyles i guess, and shovel out government money as fast as you could and really listen to some of these cable shows people are giving the impression that's exactly what you're doing. but that of course would be outrageous. and i salute you for your efforts to see that we not only speed up economic recovery but we do it in a way where we are accountable to the taxpayers and i want to encourage you to continue spending that money as quickly as you can bet spending it as if every one of those dollars was coming out of your wallet and i think if we do that we will get economic recovery and be responsible for the taxpayers. secretary vilsack, i want to talk with you about what is in the situation we have in central texas. i have farmers and ranchers and a number of counties that are

suffering from what is almost 2 feet low in the amount of rainfall. it is a very serious drought and i just had communications while we were in the hearing from judge ronnie mcdonald talking about the widespread and serious injury and damage to farmers and ranchers in his county. i know the same is true in caldwell and gonzalez and love baca county's. day after day we are the only question on the temperature will be hot or hotter and 100-degree plus weather just one day after another in colorado county some of the royce fields are about to draw a up because of a shortage of water. it's estimated across the state of texas we have over $3 billion of agricultural losses. it was to anticipate problems of the nature which could strike on the one or texas or arizona or any other part of the country that we enacted the provisions

of the farm bill last year and i would just ask you to recognize how urgent problem is in central texas and to tell a little bit under the program under the livestock program when our farmers and ranchers can expect relief and what form it will take. >> we are acutely aware of the situation in texas received correspondence from your office and from the office of a number of members of congress as well as the governor. a number of counties i suspect, i don't know but a number of counties you mentioned have probably already been declared disaster areas. >> they have been. >> by virtue of what action the president has taken an action i have taken. i will tell you we recently concluded the rulemaking process on the livestock program. that is available for the

disaster and i know the payments are beginning to be made from that program immediately after the rules were promulgated. >> so it just about everyone in my area, they can go now through their local farm service agency and make an application and begin to receive payment? >> there are a number of different livestock and disaster programs. the forge program is still in the process of rulemaking. we anticipate that being concluded this summer. and so, opportunities will be available under the specific program as it relates to forage mostly this fall, but if they fit within the program they could begin making application today. as it relates to the short program which is more of a general disaster relief program that congress sought to create the farm bill, we were somewhat pushed back in terms of the time table and on shore because of steps taken within the recovery act that altered the calculations that would have to

be made. we anticipate the rules being insured this fall. the calculations and the data that will be required in order to calculate payments would be available this fall and we anticipate later this year the first part of next year payments be made. >> i believe under the livestock compensation program previously you got one month of losses and now you will get three months based on the price of corn which i believe has been rising. does that mean that farmers and ranchers who are eligible under the program can expect to get as much as three times what they would have gotten previously? >> i think they can expect to hopefully get what they need to basically transition to better times so that they can stay in business. our goal with these disaster programs is to keep people in business and not force them out. i might also add to the extent of those farmers may have a direct operating alone with the

farm service administration we've asked the farm service administrators throughout the country to take a very close look at refinancing possibilities, extending payment period of time. this is particularly true for dairy farmers as well, taking a look at interest rates could be reduced. payments that could be reduced or deferred and an effort to make sure we are providing as much assistance and help as we possibly can and then finally we are continuing to encourage institutional purchasers of commodities and goods to continue looking at areas where there are problems to see if we can boost the market rates a little bit to help those who are struggling. >> thank you so much for your leadership. we do have a pricey situation and i hope you will be spurring all will all of your employees to try to address it. >> mr. nunes. -- before mr. chairman. mr. lahood is always good to see. congratulations on your new post.

mr. vilsack, congratulations to you and i want to thank you for the work you're doing with mr. petersen to help the dairy industry and i appreciate the comments you made on that and mr. salazar, good to see you again. i want to draw your attention to this live here. it's a state you guys all recognize as the state of california and as you are probably aware there is a government imposed drought that's been occurring where we've lost 40,000 jobs. this is an area the size of the state of rhode island that's out of production, even been abandoned or followed. the unemployment in this area is close to 20% with some enclaves as high as 40% or even higher. mr. salazar, you visit this area on april 15th to toward the economic devastation and on your visit you announced $260 million in stimulus funds and i will quote from your press release to mitigate the effect of the devastating drought that california is currently

experiencing, unquote. mr. secretary, we talked about this before. we've had 95% of average rainfall. what we have is a man-made government imposed a drought because the endangered species act as you are well aware. but you did take some action and provide recovery act funding and i would like to draw to your attention to the next slide. as you can see on the monitor, the ex mark where the stimulus funds went to and you can see those x's are nowhere close to where the 40,000 jobs have been lost. after this was sprinkled over northern california for environmental purposes the crisis got worse in the valley and mr. sells or, you return to june 28th to hold the town hall with the victims of this man-made catastrophe. i'd like to show you the next slide. you issued another $130 million in stimulus funds, and according

to the testimony today, the funds were for free use projects to help alleviate some of the devastation in the region. you can see that this, where the x's are we still have no stimulus money. in full disclosure, your press release also included 20 million for small water infrastructure projects and 40 million in drought relief. they are all reflected on this because we don't know where the money has went. mr. secretary, in the testimony said over the next 18 months we will then begin approximately $1.8 billion in creating at least 19,000 jobs. mr. salazar, it doesn't take stimulus money to port 40,000 people back to work. as you know all we have to do is get these pumps on and get water back to the valley. it's free. it doesn't take a dime. so i would ask one question of you, simply you know the situation with the biological opinion.

so i'm going to ask very specific question and that is do you plan at this time to conduct a week-long assault on the delta smelt biological opinion that would put folks back to work? >> congressman nunes, first let me say i appreciate your passion and desire to address this issue which is causing a lot of pain in central valley california and we are aware. i've been in the area twice with a donner sports an acre and a meeting we had with you and other members of the congress in fresno. there are two things we have to do want to take some short-term action including dealing with some of the projects you and others here have suggested and we are trying to move this forward as expeditiously as we can and secondly, we have to look at the long term issue in california relative to water supply we have a system built for about 18 million people and actually california has over 30 million people and we have

the kind of challenge is to require us to take a systemic view of the water supply and other demands that are creating the major problems that we are encountering. with respect to the recovery dollars going to california, if governor schwarzenegger would not want to take these moneys you might have the option of the white don't think it would be in the best interest of the people of california but we have to hundred $20 million -- >> mr. sells or eight a place i have to interrupt. mr. phill said i want to ask one simple question, you are a form guy from a foreign state is it possible to grow crops in iowa without water? >> you know the answer is no. i want to yield the remaining time to ms. lummis who has a question for mr. salazar. >> thank you, mr. nunes. mr. salazar, one quick question on behalf of the natural resources committee republicans. we haven't seen you yet in front

of that committee and we would love to have you come and visit with us about health stimulus money is being spent on other issues. can you tell me today whether you would be willing to come and testify in front of the natural resources committee. >> the answer to that is yes and i would be remiss if i didn't say that i've worked closely with the chairman and will continue to work closely with him and if he were to request me to come before the committee i would be honored to do so. >> thank you very much. i thank the gentleman for yielding and also want to add my concern about the situation in the valley. there are rare and i do mean rare circumstances where the endangered species act should not be allowed to destroy people's lives, to destroy them and that is happening in the valley. i am a person who has a state that is very impacted by the endangered species act including

wolves and humpback chub and other species. but nothing we are experiencing in wyoming is as bad as what i see in the valley and i do agree with mr. nunes that there have to be alternatives to this man made drought. thank you for your time, secretary salazar. and i will be back after we vote, mr. vilsack and mr. lahood, to ask you questions as well and i want to thank all three of you very much for appearing before the committee today. >> thank you. mr. chairman may i respond for purposes of the record? >> absolutely. >> both you and congressman nunes, we put the label on this as a man made drought peak and i beg to differ. we have been seeing very significant changes on a water supply in california, including the changes in precipitation and timing of precipitation, so this is an issue which has been going on for several years and it's gotten worse over time.

we are all hands on deck trying to figure out a solution to the problem. at the end of the day as i've said to mr. nunes on several occasions when need to figure out a way moving forward together and frankly labelng in terms of man made drought versus the reality brinkley not helpful. we had to come together because a lot of people were suffering in the valley. >> mr. chairman, i will pass your comments on to mr. nunes and i thank you very much for being here. >> thank you, miss lummis. >> i have a couple questions before we recess for these votes and i'm going to take advantage of the chair but i want to as a representative from massachusetts i'd seen this stimulus work. i've seen what the reinvestment and the recovery act has done. we are seeing more infrastructure projects being built and, you know, in my home

city to give you one example the stimulus -- the recovery money that have come for education alone have prevented the layoffs of over 500 teachers and support staff. you don't get any credit for at averting disaster but the bottom line is my city of massachusetts would have been devastated if that recovery money had not come. and of all the cities and towns i represent the same thing is true. what would have been the impact if be laid off, fired 500 teachers we would have larger class sizes, the education, the quality of education would have suffered, it would have been a disaster. the same for all enforcement. the park's and so many other things. so i mean, i think maybe there is a probable message here. maybe some things are actually happening but people need to

understand without this stimulus package i think secretary lahood put it very clearly, you know, you would have had a lot more people unemployed and the state of the economy would be much worse. i have - questions. first for secretary vilsack. as chairman spratt made clear at the beginning of this hearing the economy and was broken when president obama took office and it has taken an enormous toll on jobs and families and because so many families circumstances have taken a turn for the worst many more now qualify for federal benefits like unemployment insurance, food stamps and school meals. we've seen the numbers of people participating in the food stamp program planning. april of this year 34 million people were on food stamps, that includes one in four children in the united states, 20% climb over last year. i would think this means billions more children are now eligible for free or reduced

school meals but we haven't seen a rapid growth in those programs. since all children of food stamps automatically qualify for reduced or free school meals i would have expected to see an increase, and i wonder if the families who are now who are new to receiving unemployment benefits or food stamps might not be aware their kids are eligible for free or reduced school meals so my question is can you tell me what steps the administration is taking to educate parents who may be recently unemployed or new applicants to food stamps about the free and reduced price school meal program and is there going to be an outreach campaign in the coming year to make sure all eligible children are enrolled? and since we expect employment to continue to rise how is the usda working with states and schools every month in an ongoing way to make sure we reach new the eligible children with this benefit? and i raise this question because my two sisters are

schoolteachers and sometimes kids come to school and they don't eat, can't learn with a hungry stomach. and so, i'm curious to the answer that question but let me ask my other question of secretary lahood and then we can recess here and that is its great to see you back and we miss you in congress. we miss your civility in particular, but mr. secretary as you know the benefits eckert act was in the community act and the provision increased monthly limit of transportation fringe of benefits of $230 making with the parking benefit the next two years. this helps get people out of their car and into mass transit and provides families with much needed relief for community costs and gives local companies and the benefit as a recruiting tool. so as we continue to invest heavily in the public transportation and this stimulus package does provide that do you think the benefit equity act should be made permanent and do you have any other ideas on how

to provide incentives to workers and employers to increase their use of public transit? mr. vilsack. >> thank you, mr. chairman. the usda is working with states and local communities and school districts as well as advocacy groups to make sure the message does indeed get out about the opportunities these programs can provide for families. i will tell you one of the most important recent changes we've made in the school nutrition programs is to have a direct certification process allows families applied for and qualify for tanif and qualify for free and reduced lunch. we are making sure the word gets out and school districts to a good job of providing information on the direct certification program. we are mandating or requiring schools to provide applications for these programs for children

when school begins. many schools in fact most schools probably have a parent kitt and within the kit will be information relative to the school nutrition programs as well as other assistance programs. we are also issuing this february guidance to schools to develop strategies including simplifying the process for allowing families to synnott, rapid action on benefit applications conducting direct certification as i indicated and aggressively encouraging them to focus on outreach efforts. additionally we are working to make sure these programs are also people are aware of them during the summer as you know they are summer feeding programs we are continuing to figure out ways and strategies for expanding those opportunities and we can assure you we are also using every tool, technology tool available, our web site promotes this.

we are developing products and programs for schools, online tool kits that make it easy for them to develop programs for all creatures all of this is being done -- >> i appreciate that. mr. lahood? >> first, mr. mcgovern, let me say that nobody in the congress has been provided the leadership you have on h d and the coalition you co-chair, you've done an extraordinary job of highlighting it everyday tundershower here. i know of your deep interest in that because i served with you. thank you for continuing your lead leadership. in our department, people think i have a lot of power. most everything that gets decided has to run up