will be sworn in. we will show those speeches tonight at 10:10 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> this week, on the news makers, majority whip is our guest. gentlemen, thank you all for being here. we are keeping this on friday afternoon. the health care legislation is a moving target. can you tell us where we spend? . .

we're trying to work it out for a process that will allow us to focus on the value of health care, rather than the volume of health care. so much of the reimbursement rates had to do with volume and not by you. that is why we hear from people

around the country and i think you may have read the "new yorker" magazine, the conundrum of care. one is dealing with value and the other is with a volume. that is the kind of thing that we're trying to work through. we're getting closer to consensus. >> given the fact that there has been so much written on health care, and it seems to have stalled, was that a mistake to lay down the mark prior to dealing with republicans or the blue dogs? >> it is kind of interesting. i am a big fan of harry truman, my favorite president so far. i went up to his library a little over a year ago, and one of the things i took note of was

that when he left the presidency 57 years ago, the one thing he said he regretted not having gotten done was health care for all americans. the speech he made to congress called on congress doing this was 61 years ago. we just had a presidential campaign. they all played down health care plans. we spent two your plans -- two years talking about health care plans. we have had over 40 high hours of marked up in three different committees. why would anybody call was rushing when we have this kind of backdrop and all this activity going on, i do not understand that. the fact of the matter is we have been very slow and deliberate in trying to pull this legislation together, and i

am very pleased with the process that we had. we have a caucus that is very diverse, 51 blue dogs, 42 african-americans, 23 latinos and a hispanic compass, you've got new democrats, if you've got progressive democrats, to get asian-pacific islanders, we have all of these caucuses that we have to deal with. that is the diversity of this country reflected in our caucus. i expect for us to go through a process that is a little bit different from what the republicans go through because they don't have the diversity that we have. >> to follow up on that, some talk on the protracted negotiation among democrats to bypass the rest of the energy and commerce marked up and bring the bill to the floor next week. as a longtime advocate of regular order on the house,

what you think about that? >> i am still an advocate of regular order. last week i said that even if we can get this vote done today without consensus, i would much rather wait another week if it meant achieving consensus. i am inclined to do this with consensus among our membership. one of the things that will probably be determined is whether or not there is more consensus in the larger caucus than with in committee, and if that determination is made, i suspect the speaker and other members of the leadership will sit down and make that determination. i would personally rather see us go through regular order and do this and have all members feel that the atmosphere was a

positive message rather than negativity. >> in other words, you might not be willing to allow a small subset of blue dogs to hold up the bill any further than that have? >> that is not me. that is what my peers are discussing. i guess he knows his committee pretty well. if he feels that and he says to the speaker that's what he thinks ought to be done, i think the speaker would have to make some determinations. i will let my feelings be known at that time. what i would do is continue as i have been doing, adding -- having these listening sessions with all of our caucuses, that are six of them, two weeks ago to make sure that what we're doing finds favor with the broader caucus.

>> mr. clyburn, the president held a press conference the other day. after that, the bill did not seem to gain momentum. does the president need to do more or be doing something different to move this process along? >> well, this is hard. this is not anything that is easy to do. i think everybody knows that this is the president's priority. this is his top priority, i believe. now when you look at how we got to this point, we had a campaign that lasted almost two years. in that campaign, at one point everybody said health care was number one, then they said that energy problems are number one, then another time everybody said education -- and then we get into the year just before the

election. we had a big collapse on wall street, and just after the elections, and we saw the numbers falling, and unemployment numbers going up, and then we had to do this recovery package. so we had to do things in order to get things are arrested and stabilized. i think that the president had to do first things, first. of course he is now focusing on things that are broader range. remember, this bill will not go into full fruition until 2013. i think he did the right thing in saying to congress, you work your will. here is a place holder. think about the $634 billion, flesh this out. that is recognizing the role of the caucus.

a lot of people said that he could do more. maybe he could. i am very pleased with what he has done and i think that's so much of what the problem is has got to do with the regional differences that we have within our caucus. you have a caucus in the southeast and the northwest, pretty much on the same page, when it comes to reimbursement rates. and then you've got other people who are doing pretty good and they aren't too sure that they want to have any changes because they feel that you may bring our rates down and bring other rates up. the question is, how do you determine what the rates are? you have all of these and i don't think you can get that kind of result from the president. that has got to be done by those people elected out there in the congressional districts. we're the ones that have this

cut out. i have said over and over, going home and listening to people, we will not get to where we need to be because the differences will only get reinforced when you go home. you've got to bring all of those people here -- that is why people sent us to washington. to sit down, reason together, work these things out, and and try to come up with legislation that we respect -- that respects the needs of all of the country. you can do that in your congressional district. you have to do that here, in this body that we all make up. >> u.s. said that you don't want the house to leave on august recess without taking up the bill. there are great questions -- are great questions whether that can be done. what will be the repercussions not just for health care but for president obama and broader legislative agendas if you leave here without a senate vote or a house vote? >> it depends on how we leave house. and how you guys interpret our

leading. it is said to your listeners in your readers that they went on vacation without doing this, then it will be tough for us. now if you were to say, they went home to listen to their constituents, they will be coming back in september to deal with this, then we will be all right. i don't know what you guys are going to write. i think and know which one you will write. >> representative clyburn, you talked about going on and talking to your constituents. you have been around the political process quite a while. does a month delay in passing a bill lead to political trouble? people get time to mobilize and argue against the legislation? >> that is true. you know, we know that this legislation must be passed by

both houses of congress. we know that whatever house passes will not be the final product. i have been saying to members and representatives, let's get 85%. let's get as much a consensus as we possibly can. let's vote this bill out and hopefully the senate will do the same thing. and then we will go to conference, and at that point, we will be joined by the white house and we will work out all of these differences so that both houses and the white house will have consensus. now what we keep waiting for all three of these bodies to get together before we take the first depp, back to me as a little bit less than what makes sense to me. let's do this thing as we know

it should be done, as we do it with other legislation. if you think that we're not going of but over here until such time as all three groups get together, -- we are not going to blowvote over here untl such time as all three groups get together, you have another think to think about. >> our reporters are ed epstein of cqpolitics.com, and mike soraghan of "the hill". >> you have said that many of your members want to see what the finance committee will do foresee some sort of senate product before they feel comfortable voting in the house. are you frustrated process so far in the senate and the senate finance committee? >> oh, no. i'm not frustrated with it at all.

i respect to legislative process. i know how tough it is to get consensus. i have been out here 17 years. before i came here, i spent 18 years working in state government. and my job was to seek out, hopefully find, and implement consensus. that is what i did for 18 years at the state level. i have done a pretty good job doing that up here. i think that is one of the reasons i got elected whip, because the people in my caucus believe -- know that i am a great believer in consensus. people get frustrated trying to get people into consensus, then you ought not to be in this business. it does not frustrate me at all. now there are times when my intonation might get a little bit different, but i have always managed to get there.

i always see the glass as being half full rather than half empty. >> polls show and the present acknowledged last night as this process moves along and people hear more about it, anxiety levels are growing in the public and their questions such as -- on the sweeping piece of legislation. what is the democratic caucus is going to do -- to go out and sell it to the american people? you know the republicans will be beating the drum against it. what will change when you come back in september? how was the momentum going to keep going? >> i hope that our members will go out and speak honestly with the american people about what we're trying to do here. i do not know single-family -- i do not know a single family with problems like pre-existing condition, been denied because of a pre-existing condition. i say to my folks in south carolina, south carolina leads

the nation in diabetes because of elite detection. that is the ultimate pre- existing condition. i can tell you that family after family are finding themselves being denied coverage or being dropped because of such. this plan that we have put together gets rid of that. diabetes is preventable. we're saying that for prevention programs, we are no longer going tabbies deductibles and these co-payments for but -- for prevention programs. we're saying to people if you take the pills you are supposed to take to prevent the onset of diabetes, if you do the office visits and all that, we're getting rid of that. a lot of people are not doing

that today simply because they do not have the deductibles or they don't have the money to pay for the deductibles, or they don't have the money to pay for co-payments. we are trying to put into place a health-care system that rewards wellness and helped rather than sickness and death. that is a choice that people are making. how many people are making choices about their professions today because they cannot afford to lose their insurance? you get insurance now, you're diagnosed with diabetes are some other elements, you got this great opportunity to cut to a new job but you know that you could be denied insurance at a new job because of pre-existing conditions. that is the type of thing we're trying to get people to understand what we're trying to do here. and for new business, especially small business, we say that we note that this exchange that we're putting together, that you can get into

this exchange, you can benefit from this big poll the same way that big businesses are benefiting from it. the problem that we have got now is that everyone is looking at cost of putting this into place. nobody as looking at what it cost us for not doing it. each family, $1,200 more under premiums every year because you have to pay for uncompensated care. when i saw the bill after heart surgery for what we were paying for aspirin because we're paying for people to do not have health insurance, that's hitting every family that i know. i think people will begin to focus on the costs that we have now -- premiums it doubled in the last nine years. so nobody is focusing on that. they are not focusing on the other big costs. i have got to bring this up, but the fact of the matter is, in

this health insurance industry we have gone scored because of savings we know that we can get to, big savings are not being scored, and as a result what people see as a cost is not a real cost simply because we know that we can get the kind of savings out of these wellness programs on the other end that the congressional budget office is not able to score because they cannot quantify it. you don't think that this america -- this plan will cost the american people as much as additional as some of those single costs? anything additional from what we're paying already. >> are you still going to try to do this year? the october -- the president was talking about october 15. is that doable? >> that is our goal. i do believe that the american

people want this done. i know that our economy needs for this to be done. even if we turn things around, and there are signs that things are going -- that things are about to turn around. we're not going to be able to sustain new growth in the economy if you don't fix the health care costs in this country. i do believe that the biggest contributor to the value of the big three auto insurance has been health care costs. i think that we have got to fix this health care thing or we're not going to get our economy on the sustaining growth pattern going forward. >> mr. clyburn, if i could clarify what asked about earlier. mr. waxman said if you cannot reach agreement with this group of blue dots, he will skip past

his committee. and that skips past regular order. the speaker has said she thinks she has the votes of members of tell me this week that they are 100 short on a good day. there was a disparity agreement today. can you pass this if you skip over the committee? are you essentially the errant members to vote against the president's top priority? -- are you essentially daring eric members to vote against the president's top priority? >> i do not know what they have on their mind. i do know this. there is much more of a consensus in our caucus and of got in the committee. do we have enough consensus to get to two under 18? i have not counted yet. i do know this. there is probably much more

support in the bigger body of our caucus in there seems to be inside the committee of the energy and commerce. >> and if they are bypassing the committee? >> my position is, let's follow the regular order. astride a get consensus inside this committee. let's both something out to the floor and let's maintain the collegiality that we've already gotten in these regional meetings. those regional meetings have worked extremely well and i started out with a listening session we had two weeks ago. and now they seem to have produced a tremendous document on these regional disparities. >> we only have three or four minutes left. other topics? >> one more question about this. there are a lot of members,

young girl members elected from swing districts and the last two elections who are nervous about this vote. they say that this will be used to clog them over the head of along with the energy but they had that take on july 4. what you say to them about why they should vote for this bill? >> i will say this. i will never forget coming here in 1992. we had the same kind of watershed election in 1994. we lost about 57 seats. we had a president that beat an incumbent in 1992. i would say to them that so much of what you will face at the polls next year will have to do with the public's perception of how well the democrats are doing, responding to their needs, responding to their dreams, responding to their own

security and stability in their lives. so be careful that you look at this. so much of this is not just how you voted on any one issue but how people feel about democrats as a party. that will determine a lot about their attitude going to the polls. look at this and be sure that you are not separating yourself from the overall issue regarding health care. i don't know of a single person that wants to see their child be denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition. i don't know of a single business that won't have to go into bankruptcy -- that was to go into bankruptcy. i had a gentleman at a press conference to said that his business -- who said that his business -- he was having to

deny loans to people because they get behind and health care payments. that should not be. i would say to people, be careful but you are not getting more into the reaction of some people into them. >> will quickly, as the highest ranking african-american in congress, there was the issue of professor dates. i wonder if you thought that the president overstepped when he thought said that the police department acted stupidly and what your take is on the incident and? >> that is not what he said. he said a particular act on the part of one policeperson. look, i spent 18 years in south carolina, of all places. a place where there is a

history of these kinds of experiences. and i know ithat dr. gates reacted based on his experiences. i know that the president, who went to school and community, reacted because of his experiences. i would hope that all of us take all of this into account and remember that we can be no more, no less than what our experiences allow us to be. having said that, i would say that the police officer in this was responding to a call. the question to me was, if this was a neighbor calling, what was the neighbors role in all this? did the police officer take into account that the neighbor may have overreacted? there are so many variables and all of this that i think that

nobody is in -- in fighting the police department in cambridge i --ndicting the police department in cambridge. certainly the police officer has a great record. he seemed to me to be a good guy. i think that i am a pretty good guy. would there have been times that i overreacted? that is just over -- human nature. >> that will have in our discussion with house majority whip james clyburn. we will be back with our reporters. mike soraghan and ed epstein, is this health care debate democrat versus democrat? >> i said that the republicans role is to play spoiler. it indicates that there are no republicans that they can pick off any considerable number. the democratic differences are

so great. and some meaningful tort why did it -- why it is hard to pass this bill. >> the republicans are out there as, not as naysayers, but their view is completely different than the democrats. the democrats say that they want a bipartisan approach, especially in the senate, where the 160 votes. i think it is not really practical because their views about the basic nature of the government's role in health care remains different than the democrats. the democrats have to cobble this together on their on. and it is the president's number one priority. how can they let him fail. they did this before under bill clinton. bill clinton wrote his own plan and it never got even to first base in congress. this is the furthest along that they had been in a national health-insurance system since truman proposed it.

>> you both have a vote -- have observed the political scene for a while. is it possible that this will not come back in september after a month off? >> i really think that something will have to come back, at least in september. and my predicting that they will meet this goal of october 15? it is hard for me to say but i could not see them giving up on this. if they do have to put it off after the break. >> i think that medicare took back you go around to get it done. a democratic congress under a democratic president. it is possible that it could happen but obama has made deadline and put pressure on them throughout the campaign. he is his own most effective spokesperson. that congress has not done a good job in explaining this to people, that is why the ends at level is so high. it is a complicated thing. and as the republicans point out, it is but one thing that