>> and i want to be clear, our @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ n @ @ @ @ @ >> they are the people who put product into products. the majority are growers as well. >> so some of them actually produce the product? >> absolutely. >> so it could be around the same cost? >> and they sell to each other. >> pardon? >> and they sell to each other as well. >> ok. and since you've come into existence, which was 2006, 2007? what year? . existence 2006 or 2007? >> 2007. >> have there been outbreaks of ecoli or any problem? >> there have been outbreaks that have been reported. i don't believe the health authorities finished their

investigation yet. but there was a small outbreak in washington state and last year in michigan. >> can you say that we have seen >> can you say that we have seen an improvement ? >> the answer is yes, fewer people have gotten sick tied to lettuce and leafy greens than the years before that. but i don't take that as a me metric. if anybody is getting sick we still have to figure out how to make the program better. >> that is where the research comes in. >> are you a farmer and a handler? are you part of this organization? you are part of the operation? >> i'm not. there are two differente

entities. the farming company contracts with a handler that is sigtocisy and we grow cilantro dil and parsley for inclusion into salad. so we do that part. the crop mix, there are only a few things, and i've resisted because i think the principle is wrong of this ingredient. it caused the ability to sell into canada. they won't accept products. we test soil and water. they won't accept products -- i don't know. you know i would prefer not to go there. i was hoping that something

would become little more logical so you can focus on the process. >> as a country boy frem westomn ohio, we didn't grow up on a farm, but we live on my wife's family farm. you think about whether your product is grown close to -- we spread manure on the field. the problem has to be taken out of the field. maybe -- >> i think you are right. and the product has got issued the slide that you showed, you know, it is a great concept to give people something that aready to eat. how do you keep that? if you can't sterlize it, you break the cold chain. you know a customer taking it out to their car and driving home, it is a difficult issue, a

product to get to market safely i think. >> thank you all for coming. i'm sorry we didn't get a chance -- >> i want to thank mr. jordan and thank the witnesses for being here. our hearing today has been ready to eat or not. examining the impact of leafy greens marketing agreements. we had panels and this committee stands adjourned. thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] the senate judiciary committee voted to recommend the confirmation of sonia sotomayor

and supreme court justice. what the committee debate and see the vote today on c-span at 7:00 p.m. eastern. next week, her confirmation moves to the senate floor. live coverage of the full senate debate on c-span2. coming in october on c-span, tour the homes to america's highest court, the supreme court. >> join the conversation on civil rights and race relations with juan williams lives sunday at noon eastern on c-span2. >> friday, the gross domestic product report was released. president obama talks about the steps his administration has taken to revive the economy. he is followed by the south dakota senator who compares health care proposals. >> i would like to talk to about a subject on a rich but its

mind. that is the state of our economy. we received a report on our gross domestic product, a measure of our overall economic performance. the report showed that in the first few months of this year, the recession we faced when i took office was deeper than anyone thought. it told us how close we were to the edge. it revealed that in the last few months, the economy has done better than expected. many suggest that part of this progress is directly attributable to the recovery act. this and the other difficult but important steps we have taken have helped put the brakes on this recession. we took action to stem the spread of foreclosures by helping responsible homeowners they in their homes. we helped to revive the credit markets and open up loans for families and small businesses. we enacted a recovery act that puts tax cuts directly in the pockets of middle-class

families, extended unemployment insurance for people who lost their jobs, provided relief to struggling states to prevent layoffs, and made investments to put people back to work, rebuilding and renovating roads, bridges, schools, and hospitals. i realize that none of this is much comfort for those who are out of work or struggling. when we receive our monthly jobs report next week, it is likely to show that we're continuing to lose far too many jobs in this country. as far as i'm concerned, we will not have a recovery as long as we keep losing jobs. i will not rest until every american who wants a job can find one. history shows that we need to have economic growth before you have job growth. the report yesterday is an important sign that we're headed in the right direction. business investment, which have been plummeting, is showing signs of stabilizing. this means that eventually, businesses will start growing

again. that is when it will really feel like recovery to the american people. this will not happen overnight. it will take many months to fully dig ourselves out of the recession, the recession that we learned was even deeper than anyone thought. i will continue to work every day and take every step necessary to make sure that happens. i also want to make sure that we do not return to an economy where our growth is based on inflated profits and credit cards. that does not create jobs. even as we rescue this economy, we must work to rebuild it stronger than before. we have got to build a new foundation strong enough to withstand future economic storms and support lasting prosperity. next week, i will talk about that new foundation when i go to indiana to a city that was hard hit by the crisis and the broader economic changes of recent decades. for communities to thrive, we

must recapture the spirit of innovation that has always move america forward. that means having the best educated, highest skilled workforce in the world. that means the health-care system must make it possible for entrepreneurs to innovate and businesses to compete without having skyrocketing insurance costs. that means leading the world in building a new, clean energy economy with the potential to unleash a wave of innovation and economic growth while ending our dependence on foreign oil. that means investing in research and development that will produce the technology of the future, which will help create the industries and jobs of the future. innovation has been central to our prosperity and it will be essential to our prosperity in the future. it is by building a new foundation that we will harness that incredible, generative capacity of the american people. all it takes are the policies to have that potential. ignite that spark of creativity and ingenuity, which has always

been at the heart of who we are and how we succeed. at a time when folks are experiencing real hardship, after years in which we have seen so many failed to take responsibility for our future, it is important to keep our eyes fixed on the horizon. every day, i hear from americans who are feeling a first hand the pain of this recession. these folks share their stories with me, and they remain in my mind and on my agenda each and every day. i know there are countless families and businesses struggling to hang on until this storm passes. i also know that if we do the things we know we must, this storm will pass and yield a brighter day. >> hello. i am senator john from south dakota. to many of the children's parents do not the vacation from important the do not get a

vacation from important issues. many are looking to us for help. republicans know that health care reform is a top priority of the american people and we're committed to getting it done. we need to get the right reform rather than rush something through that can lead us in worse shape in the future. republicans want health care reform that works, reform that brings down costs for families and small businesses and reform that provide better care to more people. the current proposal by the president and the democrat leadership in congress falls short. their plan would disrupt our current system and forced millions of americans who currently enjoy their employer- based coverage into a new health-care plan run by government bureaucrats. in this recession, americans and our government are overextended. democrats have been racking up

debt and their plan would only make things worse. once implemented, that plan would spend more than $2 trillion in further -- and further increase our deficit. their plan would pileup higher costs, create new bureaucracy, and bird in every state for new requirements on medicaid. governors and legislators from both parties have said that increased medicaid costs would overwhelm the already strained state budgets. one democratic governor last week called the increases proposed by democrats the mother of all unfunded mandates. in my home state of south dakota, the new medicaid requirement could require $45 million per year in new state spending. that may not sound like much, but for a small state that is required to balance its budget every year, it is a lot. that money would have to come from somewhere. that means either higher taxes or cuts to other priorities. that is what we are facing not just in south dakota, but nationwide. americans do not want to lose

their high-quality health care and they do not want to pay trillions of dollars for a government takeover of health care that could lead to the same denial, the lake, and rationing in treatment we of seen in other countries. republicans think there's a better way. we put forth proposals to cut costs and improve care. we can accomplish reform while keeping patients and doctors in charge, not bureaucrats. reform should allow small businesses to buy affordable health insurance for their employees. real reform to protect doctors and hospitals from lawsuits so they can stop practicing defense of madison and focus on practicing patient-focused medicine. prevention programs have been proven to cut costs. rover form should big -- should give people who buy their own insurance the same tax breaks as those who get it through employers. these and other solutions would provide real reform for our

health care system rather than the dangerous and costly experiment that democrats are proposing. i hope that as we continue this debate, we can put aside politics and tackle health care reform in the bipartisan way that americans deserve. it is time for real reform that works, not the same old answers of more money and more government. real reform should cost americans less money, not more. it should provide better quality, not worse. it should empower patients, not bureaucrats. by working together, we can do just that. thank you. >> the u.s. special envoy to sudan thursday said sanctions might have to be removed to provide humanitarian assistance. retired air force general scott gration and others appeared before the senate foreign relations committee for about two hours, 25 minutes. this is two and a half hours.

>> the hearing will come to order. good morning to all and i appreciate are two panels that we have here today. we have a lot of distance to try to cover, and so we are going to try to see if we can move rapidly. as everybody knows, today's hearing explored america's need to craft a comprehensive strategy for sudan. for years the urgency of the the situation in darfur or the long war between the north and south in sudan drove u.s. policy in one direction or another. many people are not aware because when they hear the word sudan they automatically think darfur and there are obvious in

justifiable reasons for that but many people are not aware that the longest war in the history of afra and one which took the lives of over 2 million people occurred between the north and south in sudan. over time, the fact that either darfur's or the long war between the north and the south has driven our policy has really resulted in a bifurcated policy. today i think most people understand that we cannot and should not pursue either of these challenges, north-south or darfur as if they exist in a vacuum. as the save darfur coalition, affirmed in the statement for the record, quote policymakers have too often focused on the south to the detriment of darfur or darfur to the detriment of the south. at the same time many discussions of u.s. sudan policy

here in washington continue to center on the question of whether we should use carrots versus sticks, rewards or punishments to influence the deanne leaders in khartoum. when i visited sudan in april of this year i came away convinced that we need to build a broader strategicramework that moves beyond simple up physicians like karis versus six or north or south versus darfur. instead, we need that dreaded word, nuanced comprehensive strategy for sudan as a whole. we should begin by identifying our objectives. our primary goals and sudan are helping to achieve peace and security in darfur and the surrounding region, maintaining and strengthening peace between north and south sudan, expanding cooperation on counter-terrorism, and promoting

democracy and conflict prevention throughout the country. these are our objectives, our principal objectives and the question is how best to achieve them. i believe that the ongoing consequences of the genocide in darfur, and i called that such way back in 2004 as candidate for president, and the onrushing potential tragedy of a renewed north southward together to create a dynamic that demands high level and sustained the engagement. as the president's special envoy, general scott gration has already traveled to the region multiple times and the comes to this task with a long understanding of the region and a passion for the region i might add. last week general gration was in abiye, cid dannette the center of north-south tensions. his presence on the ground in the heggs permanent court of arbitration announce the decision on abiye's orders symbolized america's recommitment to the peace

process. we need to make the same commitment to find peace in darfur. almost five years ago, then secretary of state colin powell testified before this committee that the united states had found a consistent and widespread pattern of atrocities that constituted genocide. he recommended that america increase the number of african union monitors antedate the african union monitoring mission has been merged into the united nations peacekeeping mission, unamid. i can tell you from a first-hand visit as well as from the data we get, unamid is making a difference, but it has yet to be fully deployed or to acquire full tactical mobility. millions of people remain in camps under conditions may be even worse when khartoum expelled 13 humanitarian organizations, placing over a million people in potential jeopardy. general gration was right to

make his first priority as special envoy the restoration of life saving assistance. but we need to go further. when i was in khartoum i emphasize to the sudanese that restoring lost aid was imperative but also in sufficient. our goal should not be to recreate the conditions that existed before the ngo expulsion. it should be to move beyond those conditions. maintenance of a miserable status quo is not a solution. i strongly support the efforts of the african union, the foundation and others to bring the voices of civil society into the discussion and particularly to ensure that women are heard. at the same time we need to recognize that even as we work towards peace in western sudan and in eastern chad the clock is relentlessly taking down the hours between now and 2011. in 2011 it is a critical date.

that is when the comprehensive peace agreement allows southern sudan needs to vote on the question of unity or separation from the north. if the people of sudan are to transform a ceasefire and an uneasy power-sharing agreement into lasting peace, we need to think of the cpa as the ongoing process stretching into the future, not as an event in the past. today, the crucial elements remain unresolved including borders, citizenship, revenue sharing, a central focus of in my visit to sudan was to convince both sides to embark on a series of tripartite discussions with the hanna, to tackle these remaining challenges. rising violence in the south is also a matter of growing concern and underscores the need for tangible peace dividends. but even as we move forward we must not fix their on the 2011

referendum alone. we also need to consider what sudan could look like in 2012 and 2015 and beyond. all of these issues and more, including complex regional forces, need to be balanced within a comprehensive united states strategy for sudan. today we have an impressive of ray of witnesses to help us explore these issues. generals scott gration served as president obama special envoy to sudan. before that he served as a major general in the united states air force and we are eager to hear his insights on the situation in sudan and the direction our policy will take. earl gast is the acting a administrator for africa, the u.s. agency for international development and he too has traveled to sudan to advance humanitarian access. our second panel, a former ambassador david shinn is teaching at the elliott school of international affairs at george washington university. he served in the u.s. foreig

service for 37 years including three in sudan and he was also director of east african and horn of african affairs in the state department. dr. mohammed ahmed eisa is a physician with the sudan organization for rights and peacebuilding. in 2007 dr. eisa was named the award laureate and in addition to his work is the position he is a respected community leader, peace negotiator in human rights advocate. finally, susan page is the regional director for southern and east africa for the national democratic institute. from 2005 to 2007 ms. page directed the rule of law program for the united nations in sudan and she has advised those and fossum both the cpa and the door for peace process. senator lugar. >> i thank you mr. chairman for calling this hearing and for your very thoughtful opening

statement, which in a comprehensive way sets forward many of the problems. i joined also in welcoming our distinguished witnesses. i appreciate that general gration has taken time to join us today. i know that he understands congress's deep interest in this issue and i applaud the appointment of a special envoy, underscoring the president's intentions to provide international leadership on the darfur crisis, but time is perhaps not on our side. the crisis now in the sixth year, the prospects for peace in the region appear to be little better than they were when the international community first responded with the massive humanitarian intervention. in the face of direct instruction and willful delays by khartoum, these humanitarian efforts probably saved hundreds of thousands of lives. but, millions of refugees continue to be at risk of violence, malnutrition and

disease. in khartoum government's expulsion of 13 humanitarian organizations that were providing roughly 1 million people has exacerbated conditions for the displaced. the safety net of organizations now operating in darfur is doing its best to shoulder more responsibility, but the sheer number of displaced and the difficulties presented by the rainy season are straining their capacity. in july 2007, hopes for security were raised by united nations security council approval of an enlargement of the peacekeeping force in darfur to 26,000 troops. unfortunately two years later the peacekeeping force still lacks elements key to its success. the force does not have sufficient helicopters, other types of equipment that are essential to achieve mobility and deliver humanitarian supplies. moreover the overall stability of the region depends on full

implementation of the comprehensive peace agreement between north and south sudan. with the referendum on independence of the south due in 2011, most indicators are that voters will choose to separate unless some formula for stability can be constructed, the tensions between north and south will be highly volatile and could inflame the entire region. general gration is charged with one of the most difficult diplomatic assignments in our government. given that president bashir has been indicted for war crimes and his government has demonstrated little interest in resolving the political situations, the darfur problem does not lend itself to straightforward diplomatic negotiation. any successful strategy is likely to involve building broad international support for measures that pressure the khartoum government to accept a settlement to the darfur crisis. such a settlement should allow

refugees to return to their homes, establish procedures that guarantee their security and extend some level of autonomy to darfur. the united states must lead in finding ways to address these political and logistical shortcomings. the obama administration is conducting an ongoing review of sudan policy and i am hopeful this review will soon yield a an that clarifies and galvanizes the united states policy and encourages far greater multilateral support for a resolution of a crisis that has produced immense suffering. i look forward to hearing from our witnesses about how united states plans and efforts are progressing and what more we can do. i thank you again mr. chairman. >> thank you very much senator lugar. general, and mr. administrator thank you for being with us. general gration would you leadoff please send your full statement will be placed in the record as if read in full, so if

you could give us summaries, that will help the committee members and they will have a chance to dialogue with you. >> chairman kerry, ranking member lugar, members of the senate foreign relations committee i nt to thank you for this opportunity to discuss their strategic objectives in sudan and sue ellen what we are doing to make them a reality. mr. jimminy greatly appreciate your leadership on these issues, your commitment to resolving the significant challenges we find in sudan. in of this commitment is shared by all members of this committee. we sincerely appreciate the dedicated efforts of senator feingold chairman of the africa subcommittee and senator isakson, the ranking member of that committee. i just returned as you noted from sudan last week and as a visited darfur, abiye in the south i was reminded again of the great humanitarian tragedies that have occurred in that country for the many people in sudan have suffered terribly from the pain and loss that

conflict brings zilaitis for these people, for future generations of sudanese that we are striving to make a difference. let me tell you what we want to achieve. we won a country that is governed responsively, just undemocratically, a country that is at peace with itself and its neighbors that is economically viable, the work together with united states in common interest. we want an inclusive, and durable peace in darfur. we want full implementation of the comprehensive peace agreement. we bonn appeasable's referendum, whether single and united or a sudan that divides feasibly and hortatively into two separate states. p1 only what is best for the sudanese people. that is our vision and to make it a reality we are using all elements of national power, diplomacy, defense, development. we are engaging with all relevant parties inside sudan to bring peace and stability to that country.

we have weekly discussions with leaders from the two parties of the government of national unity, the national congress party and the sudan people's liberation movement as well as regular talks from@@@@@@@r h @ @ and international community. that is why i've traveled to check, to china, egypt, france, libya, norway, and the united kingdom to meet with leaders who share our common concern, who want to work together with us on shared objectives. we're dedicated to carrying out our vision of success. a report regularly to the president and secretary clinton about the progress we made and i have visited congress to exchange views with you and a number of your colleagues. i look forward to speaking with you many more times in weeks ahead. let me detail some of the specific aspects of our approach. ecific aspects of our strategic approach. most urgently we seek a

definitive end to the conflict in the gross human rights abuses in darfur and in justice for its many victims. we can never forget the lives lost over the last five years, the million to continue to be displaced, the family still crowding into makeshift housing in idp camps, women continue to gather firewood in fear, children are growing up without a hope for a better tomorrow. that must end. to resolve the humanitarian tragedy we are striving to facilitate a negotiated political settlement between the government of sudan and all parties to the conflict. our goal is to conclude an agreement that will bring a sustainable peace to darfur, that will allow people back to their home villages are places that they desire to move to, to resume their lives in safety and stability and security. the second aspect of ours dred cheat focuses on sustaining the fragile peace between the north and the south. sudan as he said will hold

elections in eight months in the referenda in january 2011. our timeline is so very tight, our task is so very great but we have no option but success. the third aspect is to prepare the government of sudan and the government of southern sudan for the post referendum. immunity or in peaceful coexistence, our strategy seeks to find a delicate balance between improving security forces and developing the social governance and economic infrastructure required for growth. the last vestige of our strategy seeks to increase and enhance cooperation with the sudanese government to counterterrorism, to promote regional security. i believe we have a golden opportunity now to make a big difference in sudan and is he can see we are aiming high in thinking big and we are expecting much. failure cannot be an option. we must proceed with boldness with hard work, to make this

proactive and preventative approach work right now. mr. chairman and members of this committee i thank you for your leadership, for your support to end the suffering in sudan and thank you again for allowing me to be here today to discuss these issues and concerns that need urgent attention, critical problems that must be resolved for all of the people of sudan. >> thank you. mr. administrator. >> goodman-- good morning members of the committee. thank you for the opportunity to update on you our support for comprehensive peace and stability in sudan and on humanitarian issues. >> united states government has provided more than $6 billion in assistance to the people of sudan since the signing of a comprehensive peace agreement in 2005. our overarching goal into dan has always been to help those affected by conflict and to establish a just and lasting peace. we have saved lives and we have improved conditions for millions of sudanese.

but with less than 24 months left in the cpa bowed back for consolidating peace and with the continuing challenges of darfur, our most critical tasks lie ahead. usaid is doing what it can to support the establishment of just accountable, democratic governance that are able to deliver basic services whether the people of southern sudan and abiye choose unity with the north or independence in 2011 referendum. however the time for achieving such substantive improvements and governance is running out and the critical window during which we can contribute to a genuine transformation be it the cpa roadmap will soon close. in southern sudan development gains have been slow. and their recent fiscal crisis has highlighted that many fundamentals of good governance still need to be established. infrastructure remains extremely underdeveloped and the burden is on international donors to foot the bill.

for years after the cpa's bunning our collective contributions are a drop in the bucket of what is needed but considering the state of development in the south in the three areas when the war finally ended our work has just begun and it will take decades to cement our progress. ..

we look forward to the day when the 2.7 million persons driven from their homes by this conflict can voluntarily returned safely to their villages. you say it will not deviate from its responsibility to safeguard the rights and protection of displaced persons and we call upon the government of sudan to support the operations of the u.n. high commissioner for litigious and international organization for migration so they can undertake the vital task of certifying any returns and paprika and voluntary. the violence we've seen recently in darfur recently in pockets of the south are a jarring symbol of legacy of negative trends that develop for saddam

conflicts and persist to this day. the absence of common good governance and abundance of weapons and unresolved grievances. we must strengthen government and community's ability to deal with tension constructively at non-violently. the alternative is a failed state where chaos will brain. before concluding on behalf of usaid i want to express appreciation to senator coffman, member of this committee who recently in a statement on the senate floor paid tribute to john grindle, one of 91 agency employees who have lost their lives in the performance of their duties overseas. in honor of john grenfell usaid is replacing the stuff carow word which will recognize usaid employees who make significant contributions to the morale and agency staff.

in addition of the john grindle secondary school is due to open this fall in sedan's blue nile state. john had a special attachment to the state in the fact that a school is being built in his name with support and cooperation of the u.s. government, the sudanese government and the end of southern sudan as a fitting memorial to a man who dedicated his life to helping saddam's people. thank you, mr. chairman, ranking member lugar for giving me the opportunity to speak on behalf of usaid. we appreciate your continued dedication to the sudanese people and commitment to peace and stability throughout. >> thank you very much, administrator gast. general, share with us a few well your perception of the situation on the ground. the dynamics on the ground and are for now particularly the current status of activities of the principal rebel groups. >> yes, sir. we are doing now is trying to

cope with a situation that is very donner and very severe. obviously the camps and continue to have great problems and we are trying to ensure they have the basic necessities to ensure the essentials of life. on the ground we still see instability and insecurity and we are trying to do right now is to achieve a lasting and durable peace. to do that, we have got agreements from the government of sudan will to put a unilateral cease-fire. we are trying to reduce the tension between the chad and sudan and reduce the cross border rebel activities that has continued to stir and stability, and we are working with the government of sudan to come up with a plan to disarm militias that have been put along the border by the government of sudan, and we are working on a

plan calling all enforcement-type of plan to insure war lords who sponsor janjaweed and other people that continue to terrorize populations are dealt with. this is a tough problem and it needs to be done comprehensively and that is it is very important. >> jim i.t. is still receiving support from the tad and across the border and a cross border fashion? >> they are currently operating out of sudan. but it is true they get medical support and other support still from within sudan, i mean which had. what we are working with is the government of chad to reduce support and even quieter support in terms of logistics to this movement. >> the government of chad would argue that part of their supports stem from the fact the

government of sudan has been supporting efforts against them and you get this back-and-forth. can you comment on that? >> yes. it's very true that jim has been threatening khartoum and it's also true that sudanese backed the chadian forces have been close. what we are trying to do working with the libyans and other leaders around the region is to reduce the support, to stop the proxy war, to get rid of the sarah gets better destabilizing. we are also working to come up with a monitoring agreement and so that the cross border areas are monitored so that forces can't go back and create damage. >> what conclusions have you been able to draw about the current relationship and structure between the government in khartoum and the janjaweed? >> it is very clear in the beginning of the government of khartoum used janjaweed to destabilize the population to reach catholic.

it is now my view that some of these groups have gone on thomas. some are not totally controlled by the government although i believe that there are still linkages we have to pursue. we are taking a look at this in a comprehensive way and we look at what motivates them and how can we stop them both from the government support and also a local law enforcement. >> what happens when you raise that with khartoum officials? >> initially there was the denial that they had anything to do with them. now we are getting more acceptance. they have a role in fixing this problem, and we are making progress on working together with a government of khartoum to stop the support. >> what would you say to the committee is the level of violence in darfur itself today? how would you describe on the ground situation with respect to

killing and raids and so forth? >> is getting significantly better but that doesn't mean we have to stop our efforts. last month there were 16 people that died a violent death, and 12 of them were from criminal kind of things, so we need to keep working. bourn death is too many from violence, and we will continue to work with law enforcement agencies and we have been able to reduce the violence because we've been able to turn off to a large degree the proxy war and some of that happened when the government of sudan bloodied the nose of gen. so that resulted in a decreased activity. >> it was my perception as i met with and listened to the various representatives and factions over time and looked at the situation on the ground that some of the group's are withdrawn from a major kind of

activity that over the last year or more there have been a significant reduction. i think of leaders i met with were saying to me there were maybe a total of some 500 folks over the course of an entire year that lost their lives and many of them were criminal activities as you described. so, where does that put us in the context of ed debate people have about the event of 2004, 2005 and the genocide colin powell and myself and others have referred and the status that we find today? is there a distinction? is it a distinction without a difference? does it matter in your judgment? >> she is looking at the facts,

there is difference between what happened in 2004 and 2003, which we characterize as genocide. we are working very hard to make sure that we can close the gaps and end the violence. as we speak, we are working to unify rebel groups. we are bringing in other people to come together and work for a comprehensive peace and to be part of the solution. there is more that can be done. you are correct. the level of violence that we're seeing right now is not a coordinated violence. it is a violence that we must end. there are other areas where the violence is considerably greater. >> which raises our deeper concerns about the north, south, east, and the cpa. the last question -- i will not ask it. we have a lot of senators here.

it. we have a lot of senators and need to get through this. so senator lugar. >> general gration, the sudan program group was created in the department specifically with complex issues associated with sudan and originally was focused on the 30 year north-south conflict. now it appears to be focused on whole of sudan. i have three or four questions which i will ask and ask you to bring us up to date. first of all, is the sudan program group still independent of the african bureau at the state department and if so what the rationale is there for the continued independence? what role does your staff play in the sudan program group and are you adequately staffed? third, what bureau and office handles the day-to-day diplomatic affairs for the united states with regard to

sudan? >> we are now separate from a f. although johnny carson and i are close friends, we coordinate all the time and make sure because we bump up against chad and everything else that johnny is working. we have to be in very close coordination, and we are. but we are the sudan desk. we've taken of the administration responsibility. we've taken over all those kind of things where we support the state department and so, yes, we are independent, and i think right now until we get the situation stabilized, and i believe that will be in to 12,011, we should remain as the sudan desk in the state department focusing on a comprehensive approach but integrated with johnny in a way that makes sense. we are working to get more staff. right now i believe we need more present on the ground and sudan.

our activities and darfur are for pronged with the rebel unification, political process, pulling together civil society, with working with unimed. we need more staff. in the south you probably know we are working on 12 areas and reached agreement between splm and spc on things like border demarcation and wealth sharing and those kind of things we probably need a presence to make sure that stays on track. we need more people and ask the state department to help us get more people. >> so you've made that request within the department and have you outlined how many persons were sort of a battle plan for what is required now? >> yes, sir, we have gotten through the israelis and comments i think we have filled

up our personal staff and office staff. we have made a request porphyry more full-time equivalents and may request if we couldn't get that to use contractors both of those turned down but we are in the process of raising them to the next level >> i appreciate that and that is one value of these hearings are used to the next level of consideration generally because we all describe the comprehensive dilemma but you have to get into the nitty gritty who does the job, who physically is there how many persons in a vast area apart from a variety of topics. so we would like to be supportive and i raise the question to make certain we all understand the importance of that. second, getting outside the united states for the last four years we've had ) a share with great britain and france on

sudan issues but much poor coordination with china, russia, the arab league, african union and the slaughter actors have considerable opportunity obviously. for use with sudan government. when additional policy tools are available in diplomacy that is working with these actors who may have disparate views with regard to sudan, a loss or their role in this the discard the international situation and its promise or difficulties. >> exactly correct. we have unity there and that is what we try to. we have several initiatives before i go to the specific ones. we activated the troika and i was just in oslo in the two weeks ago to meet with the u.k. and with the norwegians. the was a very important process bringing about the cpa.

we have a contact group that we've elevated to again get inputs and help work issues but more specifically i was in beijing the month and a half ago and the ambassador was a great friend we served in africa in the early 80's and we've been able to work that and now the chinese are working with us so we are not building roads in parallel but putting one in front of the other coordinating humanitarian assistance. russia, we are working on a conference possibly in the first part of october. when we will get together in moscow, but there is an effort to bring these players and. we now have what we call the envoy six, countries with permanent on voice that to get together on a routine basis. we have a bigger group were countries that have representatives in addition we have 15 people that get together periodically and to try to work these issues. we said so in support to the taha process, ought on voice came into washington when we had

our forum so we continue to build that team in the international community and you are correct is so important that we do that together. >> what is the situation at this point of oil delivery to china cracks in the past, allegations have been made that the chinese were less interested in cooperation because the unusual ties they had for energy needs in china. those needs continue and perhaps the flow of oil. can you describe the situation is on that front? >> the only get about 6% of their oil from sudan but it's significant. from the south gets all their income from oil proceeds and so, we'll is significantly important to the south and even to the north and so china and the united states and other members of the committee who have

investments or responsibilities and sudan have exactly the same agenda. we want security. we want stability. they want to protect their investment. we wanted because the people and future of that region and security and prosperity of the region. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, senator lugar. senator feingold. >> first, thank you, mr. chairman, for holding this hearing and i want to note the trips to the fate taken and senator isaacson have recently taken to the region. it's overhaul helpful to keeping this country on the agenda and i felt for a long time and singing for a long time as you know that we need a coordinated approach all sudan shoring up the cpa lost the central component of policy and pleased the administration has made this priority. at the same time special envoy integration as you know from the meeting in the letter i do have concerns and questions about the administration's strategy.

thus far in public statements you have pushed a relatively new approach to the government of saddam emphasizing engagement and incentives. i'd like to know if this approach is linked to a detailed strategy that's been agreed to by the inner agency and has this approach been selected because khartoum has demonstrated actable willingness to cooperate and little to its or is it just alternative options? >> we have been in the process to come up with a comprehensive and integrated strategy. the national security council was leading the process and of course we have had input as have other agencies in the department. we anticipate within the next few weeks we will be able to have a rollout of the strategy and he will see from the strategy that is very comprehensive and based on what we are trying to achieve which is a better life for the people. we are trying to achieve peace

and security and stability and economic viability and the things you talked about, the cpa, peace in darfur making sure the region is secure and the strategy includes incentives and pressures and includes ways to judge if we are making the progress that we all want to make. this isn't just about my judgment. this is about coming together making sure the united states objectives are being met and we are doing it in a way that makes sense for our country and we will continue to coordinate with the command process come ander agency process to make sure that we stay on track and will certainly consult with congress to ensure your views and inputs are incorporated. >> i am pleased an attempt is being made to create a strategy but it appears to me the constructive engagement approach was engaged in prior to this

process were being done and ready to go. so i have some concerns about leading with the before the interagency process is complete. i would like to know specifically what tangible evidence have you seen that khartoum is acting in good faith? >> let me just step back and explain what happened and why we started this process. when i became the special envoy the ngos have just been kicked out. my mandate was to get the 13 ngo's backend. was clear we were not going to be able to do that the president also gave a mandate to save lives in an effort to save lives, we work to get new ngos and to restore the capability, but not only to restore but create an environment that would be significantly better than it was on the fourth of march. but this meant to things. if we were going to get this we needed a relationship so we could discuss with khartoum. also i realized if we were going

to solve the issues we have to have a relationship with both, which we had and khartoum. we needed a foot in both camps if we were going to solve the problems along the border with chad we have to have a foot in khartoum and an geneina so it became very clear that at some point we had to have a relationship to discuss options and that is what we did early but that doesn't preclude or negate anything the strategy is trying to do. it gives a foundation for the strategy and the strategy builds on having relationships not only within sudan but with its neighbors and international communities. >> but of course the concern is the message is possibly given to khartoum that they don't have to do much tall to have that kind of constructive engagement so i would like you to say more. you have a limited to this about the stick side and not just the carrot side. i realize you may not be able to go into specifics specifics but

can you ensure the administration is assessing the viability of meaningful punitive actions and preparing them in the event of the government sudan continues its historic foot dragging and of course that has been the hallmark of their record. >> there's no question and i would be happy to come out and review and the more secure environment on what those are. but i believe we have a very balanced approach that includes both incentives and and put pressure and in many ways the lack of incentives is turning out to be a pressure. we will continue to use all methods, all incentives and pressures in a balanced way, but one thing i would like to say as a coffee out is what we are finding out is that as you already know this is a very complex issue and there is a lot of multiple things happening at the same time so we are having to take a look at this not in terms of specific actions and

sticks and carrots and things like that associated but then in concert with everything else that is going on in the country. so we are looking at an integrated approach that looks at whether the actions being done on the cpa and actions being done on the humanitarian front, what are the actions being done to put together political process so people can have their well-known and carried out and what is being done to increase security for the whole region and that is what we are judging the song, not on specific but more of a general way. >> i agree that should ideally be the approach will you commit to briefing us on the sort of punitive stick side of this in the appropriate setting? >> i would be happy to. >> i think it is very important. we have to make sure that those mechanisms are as much or more in place than the other things

you have mentioned. >> i totally agree. >> thank you, general. >> thank you, senator fine gold. >> mr. chairman, thank you for having the hearing. thank you for what you do, mr. gast. i'm appreciative that we have heightened our efforts. a few of us were in the darfur region not too long ago. the comprehensive peace agreement seems to be the most crucial issue that exists now because if we are not successful, all of us, sudan and all of those who care about that region, it seems to me that all of the minor gains that have taken place in darfur are out the window.

cause the cpi are reaching and not a good something i think that causes the entire region possibly to include. so i appreciate you putting effort and appreciate the efforts the chairman and others. there's been discussion about there's been discussion about the h so i won't go into that and the 13 ngo's that have been expelled. one of the things i think is the most striking in the ip camps there is an darfur is the lack of security for women. here they exist and in a home mom of us would call a home, a little area on the sand. and yet they are confined to those areas because the gender based violence taking place and we are talking about an area smaller than the area between you and i right now where

sometimes what cattle is kept and they themselves are there and they cannot wander outside of that area especially if they are a young woman. without being concerned about gender based violence and i wonder if there are security measures that we might change in slide these camps which are already and believably in desirable places to be. is their something we might do that is more tangible than what is occurring today? >> or ex mex the correct. it is something that bothers me and when i was at columbine cast i learned that the sudanese can't even go in those camps. the government and security is in sight when. i think there is one holton the answer and that is to be able to have a security over the country and stability of the country so these people can be returned to their homes and live in dignity with respect but how do you draw the dots between where we are

right now and will we are trying to achieve and that is tough so what we've been doing is working with unimed to come up with a plan underneath the overall cease-fire secession of hostilities we are trying to get and we are trying to make concentrated cease-fire in zones and corridors so people will be able to go out and collect firewood so they will be able to start farms so they can start an alternative form of getting food as opposed to just getting handouts and it's going to start by moving in rings or oblong corridors that start where these camps are some people can start moving out in safety but you're exactly correct the situation we face today is unacceptable. the gender based violence is acceptable and we are working very hard with humanitarian groups, ngos to stop this because it's not right and it has to end and that is a high priority for me.

>> the unimed forces were able to accompany us inside these camps. when we went out to actually meet with them at their headquarters, which i know their efforts are more out in their region trying to control the rebel groups another mandate is being reviewed and right now, and in listening to them regarding their mandate one would have to say it is an incredibly weak mandate. the things they have to do today to counter the rebel activity out there by the time they get through going through all the particles the rebels oregon. it seemed like a no-brainer that mandate would be changed to allow them to be far more productive to do the things you just mentioned and i want to ask one more question if you could briefly. >> we submitted our suggestions to the unimed mandate that was

in july and we are now working to come up with a better mandate in anticipation of a political process that ends up in a comprehensive cease-fire and a cessation of hostilities and at that point the mandate is going to have to include more things like monitoring the cease-fire, like working the borders and working as ounce in your exactly right as is currently written i don't think it is strong enough and we need to fix that and ensure they have the capabilities which might mean more in real assets to do surveillance, and it may mean a new command and control system that allows unimed to work with local law enforcement agencies, to work with a local government and rebel forces that exist in the region to have a comprehensive law enforcement and the cover that we need to do exactly what you are talking about which is a security peace. >> on less a mandate is changed, even getting back to just the

protocol and counter a rebel group out in the desert, by the time if they go through the things they have to do which basically are waving at them almost, the rebel groups are gone and it seems to me that is something pete regardless of the other things you're talking about everyone acknowledges the problem that could be changed otherwise getting back to these camps, they are going to become permanent cities because no one is going to go out back to their homeland as long as the type of security we are not providing continues to exist, and i know you know that but i just hope that you will work stringently with the u.n. to get that changed and i will call as well. we met with a central banker while we were there, and they talked about the various issues, the sanctions are creating for them and again i'm going back to the cpa because if we end up

having the train wreck that on the present course will occur, okay, darfur, as terrible as it is, is going to get far worse and is going to spread to. so we met with our intelligence agencies and i know many folks here have done that here. the fact is there is no evidence today in spite of the atrocities we all are aware of there is no evidence that sudan is involved as a state sponsor of terror. none. so the unintended consequences of that defined term existing life think may be hurting us as it relates to these other efforts, and i just wonder since there is no evidence of that and since we understand the importance of this comprehensive peace agreement achieving as it

is desired in 2011i am wondering if we are again on one of those paths of unintended consequences and i wonder if he might respond to that. >> you're exactly correct there is no evidence and the intelligence community that supports being on the state sponsor of terrorism. what we have found is the consequences of the sanctions that resulted from that are preventing collis from has to come through port sudan and khartoum and sanctioned so what is happening is we are hurting not only the local level humanitarian level that people because they can't download educational programs and that kind of thing but in addition we are actually hurting the very developmental things we become able if they choose to secede. a viable economic state. the worst things are now sanctions and so donner exactly right at some point we have to

unwind some sanctions so we can do the things we need to do to ensure a peaceful transition in a state that is viable should they choose to do than. >> so we are cutting the nose of despite the face today. >> that is probably a fair analysis. >> mr. chairman, thank you for this hearing. >> senator shaheen. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i am not sure which of you would like to address this question. i would like to follow a little on senator corker's questions about what is happening with women in sudan and the gender based violence that's been going on. when the government expelled those 13 ngos there was the programs they were doing including many that addressed sexual and gender based violence were lost.

can you address what the current status of those are, have any of them had been restored and is the government of sudan obstructing efforts to restore those gender based violent programs? >> thank you for the question, senator, you are absolutely right. when we lost 13 ngos during the expulsion we lost our capacity and international capacity to support gender based programs including prevention of violence and how to deal with gender based violence. we are doing now is working with existing ngo's on the ground to expand capacity so that they can expand the women's programs into other areas. slow in coming back and in fact if one were to look at the various sectors that we lost when the ngo's were expelled

that is probably the slowest one coming back on but it is critical and something we are very mindful of. >> thank you. i appreciate that. senator feingold and boxer held a hearing earlier several months ago where we heard directly from women who had been, and people who had been working with women and darfur who talked about to use and sexual violence as a substitute for genocide, and i think whatever we do cannot come fast enough and be important enough to address the very difficult issues that women and families on the ground are facing so i would urge you to continue in every effort possible, and if we on this committee can be helpful, i certainly stand ready to do that

you talked about the unimed mentioned in darfur, and i know that it was authorized and 2007. we still are not supposed to be one of the biggest peacekeeping forces of the assembled particularly in africa yet we have seen delay in its deployment. so can you talk about the gaps in their capacity, about how we are working to addresshe gaps and with the prospect is for increasing their capacity to address the challenge on the ground? >> let me touch back on the women's thing. what we found is that if we are going to fix the problems and sudan we have to start with the women. if we start with the winning the communities come along so you are totally right. we have to restore their respect and dignity and safety and use them as the centerpiece for really working the humanitarian development things that will

come later but on unimed we are at about between 65 or 67% right now and in talking to the u.n. while i was there on the field they basically said that by the end of the year they should be a 92% of the forces. as you know we've been working hard trying to facilitate the m i35 coming in from ethiopia but they still have significant gaps and i would say an area that is affecting us in addition to the mandate that needs to be adjusted as was pointed out command and control elements, strategic planning, logistics planning are probably things where we need to help beef up the support in terms of soldiers i think we are beginning to see a phill but in the technical peace if we have to get into this monitoring piece if we start doing intel sharing on border activities between the two groups we will probably need

more analysis and more work on the intelligence side and certainly if we start the monitoring and he was eager overhead aerial platforms for reconnaissance and surveillance we will need more of the high-tech piece, but those things are probably too premature to ask for but i believe we need to start planning now so we can get the elements and if we are successful in the peace process. >> so, what is our plan to do that? >> is we are looking at africom coming up with eight individuals that fit the bill of planners and also helping with the command and control elements and as we continue in the process and define the requirements bigger i will be very honest with you. in the past we haven't defined requirements. it was just send us six helicopters, said eight people, send a regiment and ask why and

that really wasn't very clear. just send them. we have to get up to 26,000. right now i think we have reached the point we have the bulk of people lined up to come and now we have to be specific to tailor the needs, tayler the requirements of the people that come and now really fill the niche is because what we have now is good in the general sense we need to add on to the specific side. >> thank you. >> thank you, senator. senator isaacson. >> thank you. it should be pointed out he brought the charts and didn't refer to them. if i am reading and like i want to compliment you because i believe you were appointed in april -- is that not correct? >> march. >> in march we were less than 50% capacity in food, medicine, water, nonfood items and if i read correctly now by august we will be at 100% in everything but on food items; is that correct? >> that is correct but there is

a caveat. earl and his team have put together measures to make that happen, and the other part is we haven't really been able to take that capacity and fill the gaps. first of all there was a lot of pre-existing gaps. secondly because the distribution has been there are still gaps that exist. the good part is that that is the current capability we have and we have for ngos coming back and as we continue to work what i am trying to show is we are going to fix the emergency stop gaps and make them more permanent. that is the effort and what earl and i work on a daily basis, but number two we are going to try to get back in and through efficiencies we have gotten working with the sudanese and the additional capacity of new ngo was coming and i believe we can have a significant impact in the future is significantly and

better and we have averted what we thought was going to be a major crisis in the season. i think we've been able to avert that. >> you and mr. gast are being commended. i was there in may when you're in the 80% range of capacity on recognizing abject deplorable circumstances. you are to be complemented with the khartoum government the fourth one being cooperation in the counterterrorism effort and falling on what senator corker said regarding the designation of sanctions, isn't it true not only is there not any evidence they are cooperating with terrorists but in fact helpful stopping the flow of weapons coming through sudan and egypt casa more recently? >> that is true and they have helped with key leaders of al qaeda. >> i think it is more important to know, senator lugar, that that evidence will to me -- one

thing not having any evidence of cooperation but to have an act where in fact they were helping counterterrorism begs the question senator corker asked with regard to the sanctions counterproductive to the goals so i just wanted to follow-up on that point. next, one of the keys to the cpa is a legitimate and the sudan in 2010. i think originally it was established by february. i know that's been pushed back to april is the right? is it being pushed back any further or are they legitimately moving towards those e election? >> we are trying hard to move to april but both sides are reluctant in some ways to have them but we believe the community supports us that those e elections are so important not only for who gets elected but the process these. if we can push through the laws and push through the voter

registration and education programs, making sure the referendum in southern sudan have a chance of being fair, free and credible. if we skip i think is going to be difficult to have free fair and credible referendum. >> moly if we skip but if we have an illegitimate election it will ensure that the february, 2011 referendum of the south will be secession vote i would think. i commend you on pushing on that as fast as you can and last with regard to what senator shaheen was talking about, i find it interesting in your of on levels of influence in the fourth kind of looks like dante's levels in the 80's but on your fourth level there is the i united nations.

i don't know if that depicts the level of the influences or if you just put it out there, but it does seem having been in darfur as recently as two months ago see what deployment is there and the expanse i think a lot of people don't realize how big sudan is. it is huge. we don't seem -- they don't seem to have the tactical or infrastructure support to carry out the mission that i think the u.n. intends to have. is that the u.n.'s fault or is that the fault of you in participating nations not following through on the plan? >> i think without the u.n. and support to this mission and without u.n. participation and food programs and ngos and support we are getting we wouldn't have been able to do have the stuff we are doing.

you then can be looked at as a glass half full and glass half empty. i look as a glass half full and i think we need to work hard to help them get the capacity they need as opposed to tearing them down when they don't measure up. so i think we are working hard to ensure they get the capability. i think they are in a capacity that can be used productively both on the humanitarian side and security side. they are not there yet but i believe they can be. >> my statement was sent to be critical of perce. it is to make an observation that 15 years ago and rwanda in thea lee to act in a timely basis to make a difference a tragedy took place and we are on the cusp of the tragedy again if everything falls down and darfur and in the south and with the elections so it is critical i think the u.n. forces in concert

with african union get the manpower but also of tactical and logistical equipment to secure the rights of those women to go get firewood is going to take the high-tech things you were talking about as well as aerial support through helicopter as if nothing else so continue to work to push them because if that does fail in 2011 in the southern referendum where we have a break down before then it could be a catastrophic situation for africa and for the whole world. >> one thing i would like to add to are correct but the fact that unimed can't cooperate is disastrous. if there is a problem in the three areas in southern sudan those forces and darfur can't come over to assist. that is something that has to be changed and we need to work on ann arbor ability between the u.n. command and a more effective way. >> i appreciate your work and

mr. gast thank you for durham humanitarian work. >> thank you very much. i am going to recognize you momentarily. a very quick comment from senator feingold. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i ask for just ten seconds to respond to the statements both by senator corker and senator isaacson with regards to sudan's counterterrorism cooperation. i think the characterization's are overstate and do not state the situation. i played my concerns in a classified letter and i would be happy to repeat them in this setting. i would like the record to be clear and i look for to dialogue. thank you. >> it's a very important issue with respect to any kind of policy determination that we make, and the committee will have a classified section to explore this so we can make an intelligence that judgments. and i appreciate your raising the issue. it's one we need to go for any

way and we will do it in the right setting. >> i was struck by your notion this wasn't the most secure sitting in the world. i can't imagine why you felt that. [laughter] senator coffin psp mix thank you for holding this hearing. this is incredibly important but difficult problem and i want to thank both of you for working on this problem, and i thank you, mr. gast, talking about my comments on john grindle, who died in sudan. and the 91 employees we have had. i myself was not aware it was 91. this is a dangerous place and people die in almost anonymity and i speak on the form i say time and again our federal employees doing this kind of work are incredible people doing an incredible job for all the right reasons. but john, when he died, was

disturbing radios to better improve communications in the area. what are we doing in terms of communications in the area? >> important part of our program especially in the south is education and education by radio. the shift in the assistance now is civic education and giving and getting prospective voters ready for elections over the next eight to nine months so voter education and civic education are critical components and obviously a lot of people in the south don't have access to schools and so we have devised radio instruction programs. >> is that the substance of it in terms of communications? that is why we are basically doing is educating folks for the transactions.

>> and general civic education programs. >> what are we doing to prepare, the rainy season is coming. what do we do to prepare because that is a time when we have famine. what is usaid doing about that? >> we do have a position of stock. the rainy season is coming. however we have experienced the last four or five years and how to operate in the environment. as the general mentioned earlier in number of interventions we've had to take, the international community mainly wfp and ourselves are not fully sustainable so with regard to the food assistance there are some things that are not sustainable for a table instead of relying on the ngos to deliver food and be able to monitor that we are relying on local relief committees. and so we are trying to analyze the impact the rainy season

might have on the local relief committees distributing aid. >> general gration, senator kerry at the beginning talked about we don't just have to meet humanitarian aid, we have to surpass what we are doing. as khartoum willing to cooperate and increase the amount of humanitarian aid? >> yes, sir. we have been taking a good hard look at this and have a stoplight charge that it inaugurates what they've said and what they've turned into and we've looked at that every week to make sure they are indeed holding out to the agreements they've made. for example they said they would hold up to the 2007 joint communique which meant we only need modifications to travel and we are seeking evidence that is working. they made the agreement they would start issuing multiple entry and exit visas and they are starting to do that. we have reached other agreements in terms of technical agreements

we had a backlog up to six months they signed about 98% of all of the technical agreements, and so we are now working the details like right now this thing brought about the organization, international organization, we know that if we are going to get these and be able to think about people moving out we've got to do this in a way the human rights are guaranteed and this isn't an involuntary term but a fallen to return in stability and security so we are now working with the government to work those aspects, working with the world food program to start thinking how will we move from humanitarian assistance into development so we can put in the social networks of water and schools and helped some people can give to these areas they want to make their homes in a secure and stable and with the human rights that come along with it. i see a lot of positive change but we have a program that says

not trust but verify but verify in trust and right now we are in the verification mode and when we see more and more things happening and i have to tell you honestly is very positive but we also know what we are against and we are making sure these are verified and continue to be verified but as words turn into deeds there is more trust and confidence and we can build the confidence not only the humanitarian side the security side, political process side and also in the south. >> you mentioned the need to expand the unimed mandate and the need for additional training. what role is the u.s. went to play on additional training? >> we have a meeting scheduled in africom to discuss this issue. right now i am not sure. i know what our requirements are. our military as you know is strapped and not only will we have going on in iraq but also

implicit in afghanistan and other missions on the world, so i don't speak for them but we will lay out our requirements, things we need to do and do this in the most effective way recognizing they have commitments they have to do. >> thank you for all the you were doing and i look forward to that social security briefing. >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. chairman for holding this hearing and to both of our witnesses. i a testament to bipartisan concern about this issue eight samet terse -- eight senators have spent listening to the testimony and have taken a considerable amount of time today to stick around. i am sure you are aware, general gration, that there is a concern

that the administration is now speaking with one of the lease on the issue of sudan. as you know, during the campaign last year, senator obama bdy emily denounced the government as practicing genocide. ambassador susan rice stated june 15th genocide is ongoing. however you have stated the situation in darfur was the remnants of genocide. i would be interested in you commenting about at worst it seems to indicate you are doubtful there was ever a genocide, so it does seem in that respect are you, ambassador, and presidential candidate obama were taking one

position and you are taking the other. also ambassador rice praised the issuance of an arrest warrant for president al-bashir and that is a statement that seems at odds with the administration's engagement strategy that you have outlined today so i would like you to comment about that. >> thank you. the president referred to the genocide that is taking place and darfur and that is clear to me and he is also directed -- >> indicating that it is on going? >> you can read that how you need to read it but that is his statement and what he has directed me to do is to reverse the donner ongoing consequences of genocide and that means to ensure militias are disarmed and that the persons can return to

homes when they want to and where they want to and the people of darfur who have suffered so much can continue to live or can live in peace and security and dignity. >> don't you think is important for us to know to the best of our ability whether there is a continuing genocide ongoing as ambassador rice stated? >> this is a an issue and what i can do is only describe what i see. >> have you and the ambassador had a conversation about this difference? >> i will tell you in public that susan rice is one of my dear friends. there are few women in the world i say i love you too and susan as one of them. i loved suzanne, and susan and i talk and we disagree on some issues, but it is not a personal thing, and there is not space --

>> no one is suggesting that but it's fair to 66 [laughter] i am heartened people in the administration are fond of each other. >> we are. [laughter] >> i just say that to say, you know, they're has been characterization's of susan on one side and me on the other. there has been honest debate but that's why we have love debate -- have the date that reflect a comprehensive to ensure all elements are taken care as you know we are focusing on saving lives, making sure people that live in those idp camps can live as best they can and that they have a future. islamic in your opinion are we dealing now with only the remnants of a genocide that is over?

>> i'm not singing the genocide is over. what i am saying is my focus is on recovery. i have been a refugee myself. we lost everything we owned when we left congo. i lived in an attic waiting to find a house. i don't want people to go through that situation. i don't want people to live in that environment. i understand and i'm passionate about changing it and it doesn't matter what we call it in my view what matters is we have people living in donner desperate conditions that must end. we have women that fear for their lives and they have their sold ripped out of them and that has to stop as gender violence continues. my view is to get involved in debate that is not required is not as important to fix the situation which is required. that is my mandate and with the president has asked me to do and

why i am dedicated 24/7 to do that. .. a number of senators have expressed our concern about this engagement. i guess we can talk about carrots and sticks as opposed to another approach, but it seems to me that any comprehensive approach will have a combination of carrots and sticks. senators have asked for -- asking for concrete progress on

a number of fronts. they have called for benchmarks, and a timetable to hold the government accountable and they haven't asked the administration to not rule out further punitive actions and more muscular steps in our approach to the national government. what is your response to that? >> i will give you an example. when i took over, we had 12 areas where we had major goals of the implementation in the coverage of these agreements. we started with 12-hour day in meetings here in washington. we started with two days and expanded to another two. we went to klartoum. we were able to reach agreement on every one of those 12.

there are benchmarks, timetables, and i will be happy to share with you all those agreements that remain not because of us, but because we created the informant -- we created the environment. to be able to create the environment that helps to push in areas that we can push. to help use the levers of the community. to push not for the u.s. to make policy, but to create the environment that those different views, from the south and the north can be rationalized and problems resolved. we will go out there next month to raise that agreement that we got at the working level where 15 leaders will raise that up to the place they need to. we are creating an environment where they can unite. we are creating an environment

where they can come together, identify their issues and leaders, and then we facilitate them going and building and comprehensive peace agreement that we need. we are not giving anything. we have not given anything yet, and we have an agreement, 12 pages, things they agree to not necessarily with us but things that will move our shared vision of what is saddam should be. >> i would appreciate it if you would respond on the record about that, which you just alluded to perry >. >> i will turn them into you, no problem. >> senator mendez. >> i want to thank you general for your service. i have to be honest, i had a

meeting in the office why was partly listening to some of your answers but what i don't understand or what i fail to glean from what i have heard you are the third or fourth special envoy we have had twos sudan? we have real engagement by citizens in this century from this issue or my home state but across the country we have thousands of that engagement by people and the political engagement at the highest levels of our government, we have funding for humanitarian programs, laila's singh in our efforts were keying multilateral. i have difficulty understanding that we cannot move forward if i am sitting in a camp, the same dismal

conditions and worry about my security or my life the council of patient and delayed do not satisfy. successful conclusions we want to turn the tide on the lives of these people? >> very difficultn. i just know we have a plan to make a difference that includes five tracks in darfur which is political, security element of the humanitarian assistance, as solving the problem between chad and sudan

with the integrated and comprehensive way to integrate the cpa and to stabilize the stern security pact and the ngos better on the eastern side. all i can do is work all of these problems together as hard as i can. we have assembled the best teams we have bright people helping us. we are pulling in expertise for the whole international community and building international organizations. we don't say the united states can solve this problem but we believe there is a solution and we cannot fail. there are too many people whose lives depend on our success that is why replied together every effort we can and why president obama has given me the support and secretary clinton has been totally supportive because we all understand this is the one. >> what is our time frame? >> we have the election of april next year and a

referendum in june. the number of days is 174, 362 until the referendum that is almost mission impossible but i believe there is help and we can succeed that is why i get up every day and at work 6:00 a.m. seven days per week that is an incredibly compress timeline an almost impossible job but if we sit back and do nothing we will fail i am giving it everything i can. >> i have no doubt and i certainly am not an advocate of nothing i have been an advocate of this committee i included legislation giving the u.n. resources from the federal government because genocide does not have the offset. the reality i am trying to get the sense of what is it that you don't have that you need, if anything? or do have everything you

need? what is it that you need outside of time? >> time is big, and we need space on the sanctions. there are things that we are doing it better hindering me to bring development to the south. the people of sudan and getting kept from getting the education they need i have a simple radio that connects to five leading institutions of the doctors in darfur in the south can call-in to get the latest medical help and i cannot distributed because of the sanctions. the very elements that we need and equipment we need to develop the south cannot come for the ports because it is sanctioned it. we have to take it could look and say what can we do to ensure that the southern sudanese have every opportunity that is not in an

incubator but survive on its own? i will tell you we have worked issues employer sells in the box and we need some help from a congress in those areas. >> another set of questions, what does this say we are talking of lot of our soft power but in terms of trying to save people's lives? >> but what it really is making a difference to the ngo to increase capacity for the ngos to work and a billion more development and a development program that the sudanese themselves come up with and come up with the plan

and work on their plan to make them successful it is not about us doing that but as helping them help themselves in the african region and that is what we're trying to do. >> one last question and come up with men go out to get firewood and end up getting raped in the process. there's a lot of alternatives dose, have you looked at that to see what is the best alternatives we can better secure those who are in the camps? >> thank you for your question earlier reduced have a discussion of women's issues especially in 85 you are right. if there were good, me effected fuel efficient stowe's it would reduce the exposure of women outside of the camp. what we have found is some of the early models that we have

have of fuel efficient stoves the have not lived up to their promises they're not as efficient as they led us to be the eighth. we are now working on a steady two ways to improve them so we come up with a better design with the stove that truly is fuel-efficient and energy efficient. >> what is your timeframe? >> it is in progress now and i cannot give you any definition when it will be concluded that we will certainly work with you and your staff. >> we would like to know your progress. thank you very much. >> we will move to the next panel but senator wicker i do think, if there is a debate that it is imports and obviously with respect to our policy and the choices we have available to us but also a

debate fraught with some difficulties at this plant in time which is why intelligent and committed people can have differences of opinion. according to article to comment genocide means any of the following five acts committed with intent to destroy in whole or in part to a national and ethnic racial or religious group, killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental harm to members comment deliberately conditions of life to bring about physical destruction in whole or in part for obviously there could be a significant debate about the camps and people's ability to move back and lack of provision was adequate protection and those measures intended to prevent birth and forcibly transferring the children to another group.

international law includes within genocide the issue of conditions that lead to the destruction of the group. there's a lot of room for argument. what general gration is saying in this debate what their art is ongoing impacts we are living with them. darfur is a day today hal in terms of the impact of 2004/2005 but obviously but those activities what is the accurate figure that were killed? what is the best judgment? >> [inaudible] >> correct. and today we have largely criminal activity as the conditions people are living in which takes some lives but

serious questions of whether it is the remnant of independent acting otherwise versus a government driven effort. so these are things we can argue about but if we sit around and do that we would like at the camps taking care of and mr. gast talk to run the on sustainability of the current situation. just paint that picture what do you mean by on sustainability in the context of the post march for each end? >> when we refer to on sustainability we have to ask actors to take on roles they are not used to doing so that means they're not implementing programs that meeting acceptable international standards. i mentioned for example, the delivery of a food. we have a monitoring element

built in along the way. we cannot do that now we do not have the resources. >> can the government of khartoum our ability to do that better? >> the government of khartoum can facilitate that ability to do a better buy doing what it is doing now. and. >> do you feel since general gration visit and my visit and others there is a sense they are more engaged? >> absolutely. the problem is rebuilding that capacity. we talk about the process days progress it has made with technical agreements and issuing visa and not requiring a travel permit but the one area they have not fully implemented is through assets. assets that were seized after march 4 have not been returned for the most part we are

rebuilding capacity to appoint we will have all sustainability and greater coverage prior to march 4 and we're doing that by expanding the presence of existing ngo eight of them are currently expanding and can bring in more international staff and hire more local staff and the general also mentioned for ngos coming back to sudan and three of which will werke and darfur. >> there is more to be covered but we don't have time we have to get to the next panel. >> could i have another moment for two? clearly the chairman's comments are well taken however if ambassador rice is correct, and if there is the ongoing genocide, then clearly

the congress and the united states approach to dealing with the government should be different. i want to ask one question about the succession broke. i would not be surprised, a general, if the south did not vote to secede under any circumstances. do you expect the khartoum government to honor this vote? or water the implications of that? >> i do believe they will honor the vote and i do believe that the agreements we have made right now, the number and the south have agreed with the legislation with or without the required legislation. i believe it will happen and what we understand if the vote

happen today they were probably vote to secede but we will see what happens in 2011. but i think they will allow it to happen. >> and khartoum will allow the seceding south to go quietly and peacefully and orderly? >> that is what we're working toward with full implementation of the cpa to allow the vote to be unity, a peaceful coexistence that is what we're striving for with our negotiations in the work we're doing. >> thank you sir and mr. chairman. >> a very important line of angry i wanted to be declared of. i believe i believe general gration is on the right track and i think i think his engagement has saved lives and in finance our ability to advance the piece process both in darfur and is cpa north and south and the consequences of

not doing both would be disastrous. we are presented b'rith day and have a situation what was happening 2004 and 2005 is not happening today i will not get caught up in the argument and general gration has said we can spend our time doing that but the key is the government of khartoum moving to redress the critical humanitarian concerns and to a vance the piece process itself we have a very different situation confronting us and that is the main thing we have to look for with our policy there are real measurements of what they're doing and we advance that process and i think that is exactly what general gration is doing. the time frame is critical and

it will take heavy lifting by special envoy and others to advance this. so with that said let me invite a seamless transition to the second panel. i need to meet with some folks for just a minute and a senator lugar will chair in my absence so thick you for being here we will leave the record open for one week there will be additional questions that will the clarification a particularly mr. gast we did not have a chance to get to some of the things we need to know about the program and we look forward to doing that. thank you forn4ñ;

would you please be seated? >> thank you very much. i want to emphasize that the situation existing in the sudan today very much involved the entire region. i would also suggest that most of sudan's nine neighbors would prefer to see problems between northern and southern sudan ultimately resolved with a southern sudan being united with

the rest of the sudan, although that does not seem to be the way it is headed today. i think it is clear geographically unifying sedan is clearly dependent on the ability of klartoum to make it attractive to seven sedan, and their willingness to leave the door open to that possibility. some of for observers might argue that a break up of sudan, and i would suggest that a break up might very well go beyond just the northern and southern sudan, but possibly the breaking off of parts in the north and the south, some would argue that might be a good thing. i disagree.

should that fail, it is incumbent upon khartoum to move forward and the referendum on independence to proceed. there is a lot to criticize in sudan, but i want to focus on a few areas where there has been progress. one has been talked about today, whether saddam should be left on the list of state supporters of terrorism. it should be removed from that list. it is often said that if your move sudan from the list, the sanctions will be removed. do list of sanctions is so long it would take years to undo that jumbo, even if you remove sudan from the state terrorism list. we talk today about the emotional charge of genocide.

i happen to be in the camp that would argue that today what is happening in darfur does not meet the definition of genocide by the 1948 convention and it does not serve u.s. policy well to continue to color that because of the heavy emotional baggage that brings to the question. i suggested a series of very specific policy suggestions, some of which have been diluted to earlier today. just to mention a few of them, i would try to make one last best effort to make unity attractive in the sudan, perhaps by pulling together a small group of international experts who will sit down both with the splm the national congress party and try to identify the agenda where that might still happen. the odds are still good and i think the effort is worth trying. i think in much greater effort

should be made of resolving the internal difficulties in chad, working closely with france and libya. that plays out very heavily on what is happening inside sudan itself. . . self. i think u.s. policy will be well served if what is going on in the sudan in falls more directly the key actors and general gration indicated that may be under way and that is a positive move also the international community press hard on both the sp calum and the government to demarcate the government to demarcate the and finally i would suggest there ought to be pressure on

both the splm and and cp to reduce the amount of money they're spending on the military and would not encourage both to rebuild the agricultural sector i would also make the are you ever upgrading u.s. representation and khartoum and more important it would agree with general gration there must me more on the ground ability to monitor what is happening in sudan -- sudan and make a case for the american president's program at idea of 1%, one american officer position scattered around locations with maybe one or two local nationals and that would give a great advantage to understanding the situation. thank you very much. >> to the members of the

united states senate, my name is mohammed and i am a native of gration -- darfur sudan thank you for the invitation to come today i also want to thank you for your support. i'm here to testify today before you on the issue so dear to my heart not coming gets i am sad and by events which have brought me hear today. a leader in my community, in preparing for this testimony come i have consulted with a number of darfur leaders and i

stand here today expressing many of their views. one american doctor that has worked in darfur since 1989 says since 2003 we have provided american treatment two hundreds of civilians as a result of the conflict. they come in various forms gunshot wounds, rape, torture, beating , and other forms of violence. one particular concern is the displaced camps which have been aggravated by the international organizations and the sudanese government. the shortage of food and clean water and sanitation and the administration of violence the

few organizations which have been allowed to return to sudan have not been able to stop operating through the bureaucratic red tape so activist as myself for being targeted by the government making it impossible for us to provide the need to our people. many who live outside of city and fear for our lives if we were to return. for more than six years we have been calling for peace in darfur it is needed in darfur. the comprehensive peace agreement signed with the sudanese liberation movement and the government of sudan it

has the negotiable peace agreement in darfur it paves the way for the democratic transformation and provide for equitable wealth and freedom of religion and the rise of one identity. these of the same issues we're fighting for and 85 similar of what is needed to in darfur in a peace agreement must address that issue of accountability for crimes committed by the country but a conducive environment must be created. land owned by a people in the displaced camps have been occupied by settler is coming in. these lands must we returned to the rightful owner and in

order for this to happen some alicia must be disarmed. this will create a safe environment for the people to return to their homes. four sustainable peace in sudan the united states should add the government of sudan to allow the return were functioning of the system in and remove the same shin that prevents commencing operations and including leadership from the displaced and refugees and ribbon organizations in the piece process. as a key player in the piece process united states should

have time implementation. but we hope to continue working with united states and we're counting on the united states to play a key role to bring about peace in darfur and sudan. >> thank you very much. not like to call upon this page. >> thank you very much a ranking member it and honorable members of the committee thank you for this opportunity to justify. four years after signing a comprehensive peace agreement it is holding but remains very fragile and full-scale war between the north and south is always at risk of erupting. interests nec by land has increased and tie darfur finance continues.

on june 28 the national election commission postponed elections for a second time from theory 2010 through april 2010 political tensions rose in the southland ford affairs minister created a new political party called the splm for democratic change despite these changes progress was made and the government of national unity agreed to allow for governmental organizations into the country to replace the ngo that were expelled after the accident of president bashir the advancement of peace was made as alluded to following last week's ruling with the arbitration and respect for the decision and a newly drawn map has been agreed to and i think a part as a testament to the part of general gration and the senior leadership and

the ruling was announced. nci has worked in sudan since 2004. and our focus group research has the most extensive qualitative information on the opinions of the sudanese people we have completed 10 focus group studies including southern sudan, two in the three areas by blue nile and two in the northpark pro as part of these studies focus group discussions have been held in 71 locations across the country. we are assisting in developing the capacity of 75 southern civil society and if the eighth phase organization to serve as domestic election troopergate network for the domestic elections the organizations have stressed the importance of working together and corded efforts

with the north with those of the established networks in the south park out amidst -- admits to the challenges the expressions show a desire for collaboration regardless of the outlook comes of the referenda to build a just and accountable government at all levels. the focus group research in the north and south and three areas show the city's strong news of for reelection as the best way to choose their leaders. they are strongly committed to participating and called a deep desire to hold elected officials accountable what they cannot currently do with it a point* official while many people expect cheating to take place a number of participants stated they would "except to the bride the but yet still but for the candidate of their choice" end quote. but misinformation is

widespread in respect for the positions they're voting and in blue nile a number of people erroneously believe there will also participate in the referendum. the research raises important points and demonstrates sudanese citizens of frustration with the incomplete implementation of the cpa parker increase technical assistance and government has the ability to build in sectoral implementation including the two referenda are crucial ways to support the government of national unity the government of southern sudan and the 25 states in implementing the next critical stage of the cpa additional support for rotor education programs is crucial in order for elections to be viewed as credible the electoral framework must be understood and regulations put in place as soon as possible

blood donors should continue to support the election commission to make sure it remains the independent body. parties must me able to compete and campaigned freely and media should provide equal access to all competing interest. additional the domestic observation of the process, at electoral process provide sudanese citizens the opportunity to provide in the life of their country and make informed decisions about their future. collectively the independent electoral commission adequate citizen education and responsible media coverage, political tolerance for campaigning and the freedom for domestic sudanese organization to observe the electoral process will minimize the risk of pre-and post election and referendum violence has well as to help ensure respect for the sudanese people as expressed through the ballot. thank you very much. >> thank you very much.

let me commence by following up on your suggestions come but clearly the information that could come from the focus groups or already has as well as the findings as you publish them and discuss them are critical for these referendums to bring about decisions where citizens have confidence in our more importantly do nightingale june 5 is because of what they receive they have incompetence in administration or fraud and abuse. the national credit institute and public institute have cooperated for many years and latin america and i can recall vividly the attempts made to help print ballots that were clear or signals for signs to

persons who were illiterate as to what the choices might be two political parties but that is apart from people sitting around it tabled with the balance being raised and everybody is examining@@@@@@@@@ in the case of first elections, many latin american countries, this was critical in terms of the credibility. all of us are looking toward those elections, and clearly the amount of education, the numbers of positions to be filled, who in fact will be up for election, and so i ask you, first of all, what sort of resources do you or other groups have to make that kind of information available in the 25 states of sudan? even that is a daunting figure as one considers all the

differentiation. let >> thank you, very much, senator. we have received funding to make voter education a priority. we have quite a lot of resources. our research from the focus groups are consistently published. we published them, do briefings in the field, not just for the political leaders of the north and south, and at the state level, but also for citizens so they understand what people are saying in terms of the elections. the election bridle think and i a country the size of sudan the resources are every enough but to get to those actions we need clear regulation passed by the electoral commission people need to be educated but you cannot do all of the educating until we know

exactly what we need to tell people. that is the first and foremost a national election commission is also understaffed and has spent slowed to publish the regulation to implement the electoral act. >> this is an important part of that hearing to eliminate the process because these are action steps finally and actions made by citizens and the information they have the opportunity they have and the integrity of the process is tremendously important. but let me ask as so many americans appreciate your own contribution and humane services, likewise your observation about darfur, what are the prospects for the many groups within darfur?

many of them have been involved of contest of their own for turf levying aside the rest of sudan within darfur what are the prospects for unity? and a healthy darfur even if the rest of the world would the fed alone? -- to leave it alone? >> to be i have been working as an american activist and we are working with affiliations and tribal groups and we have four related -- for formulated

formulated, we are in levying in the same atmosphere and we will continue to live in that same network so 24 but the problem of darfur together. but to have the solution of peace in darfur as a group but that is what we are building in soho there prohibited and movements are restricted and that is one of the problems we are looking for the piece where everybody is at peace is the only solution for darfur and sudan cement that is encouraging but with their

groups in darfur but it on location and this is obstructive by the government and these meetings and reconciliations are frustrated? >> that is what we are trying to do because even the people instead displaced camps have their leaders and release negotiate together and that is our echoes for the people and darfur. >> professor, i was intrigued with your thought that nabors of sudan, even recognizing the referendum about two o occur as well as other phenomenon, all things considered, will buy 2c1 united sudan as opposed to a

southern function or another split. you even suggested in the worst-case analysis there may be more than two. there could be a vaccinated country of first of all i am just curious why would other countries worry about that? why does this affect their foreign policy one way or another? and furthermore, is this the unified feeling of the neighbors or do other countries have various agenda is perhaps that work better? can you eliminate that situation a bit more? director of the nine countries that border sudan come i could make a strong case that at least six of them would prefer a unified sudan when this is

over with seven have some question marks on it kenya and uganda me high of economic advantages and the situation in chad is so confusing it is hard to deciphered normally do blunt unified because they have the same problems if bifurcation of chad they have been the sudan and it is not a good precedent but the bad relations with khartoum complicate that. in some cases it is a practical consideration they simply do not want to do with one or more additional countries but they have to negotiate quotas for use of the nile water they would rather do with khartoum and be done with that. in the case of a country like ethiopia, they find it easier to deal with one neighboring capital, not two or three or

more i have had this conversation a number of times the preference is for a unified sudan but they will excepted if it comes. the more interesting part of the question is are some countries interested in having a division in order to make it weaker and work to their advantage? that is a possibility tt is why the if chad in a separate category they are the blunt country that may fall into this situation. that may not be anywhere else. but i think the president of division along ethnic lines or otherwise is more over ratings and wanting to take advantage of smaller entities and with u.s. interest the last thing we would want to see is a series of countries landlocked and poor and dependent upon outside a even those that may

have oil. >> thank you very much. >> the key for being here i appreciate it very much. dr. muhammed, how would you describe, we had the little discussion about what is going on in darfur today on apologize but i would like to hear your description how would you describe what is happening on the ground today in 10 darfur? >> thank you what is happening and i have been there for more than 20 years darfur. it is a question the residents do not have the equality to

share in the power or wealth. and all indicators show a very dire situation. what is happening after, the people are now coming and the displaced comes produce see what is happening. they are living and that greatest situation but everybody in it darfur wants to grow. but there are preconditions the land which is occupied by the other sellers -- such dollars and now occupies the land.

they are armed. >> the government. >> lee needed to be appalled and take its a mandate. they should be disarmed and demobilized so it is a conducive environment for people to go home and have a normal life in their home. they're coming from a very good area and nobody is lacking to live in that situation. so to be it is very difficult to see ic catastrophe but also

today you can get out anyway we want the committee to understand we don't have the infrastructure that is basically needed and the question of helicopters or other mechanisms should have the upper hand to control the situation usaid in terms of the current. >> of the principal rebel groups, they're not a gauge the way they were in a confrontation going on but the question i asked you is one senator mentioned with the three or four on a voice with senator mendez, what do you

think we have gone through a number of getting close to agreements and within hours or-- the agreement the people have walked away and it has fallen apart. is there something that is alive today that it is in this moment that you think is different we can capitalize on or are restock aire reader we go around and we will get through this meaningless agreement process? temecula is a question not a matter how many agreements but is there a political will to implement? >> that has to me but all of the parties. >> correct. the rating faction the

implementation is cpa is demanded with a consequence these would be implemented. >> what is your judgment about that will? is that they're now? >> to me i know what is happening in the city and government it never made who will to solve the problem with darfur but it wants to continue as the military option. >> ambassador? what do you say about that? >> it is hard to read the minds of the people who are running said government and khartoum but i do see however a willingness to reach out 22 governments like the mayor can the government for perhaps the first time in a long time and

i think that ought to be pursued rather than and rejected it@@y@ @ @ @ @ it may not lead anywhere, and it would be unfortunate if it does not, but i think we are on the right track in reaching out and seeing what is there and see if there cannot be further moves by the government in khartoum to see what needs to be done to implement the cpa. i am a little bit optimistic on this. >> so when my, actually. i think it is possible to put the dynamics together. very tough, big issues. miss page, maybe one to comment on how you see the north-out process and the big issues of citizenship, borders, in wealth sharing? >> thank you, senator kerry. i think that some of the suggestions outlined by

ambassador shinn are quite correct. the think the region has to be considered. africa does not have a long track record of appreciating other independent states on its borders, and especially the fact that sedan, if the south votes to secede, we need to have a process of how we're going to hold both the government of national unity which is an integrated government but to help the north and the south put in place the mechanisms that would make that happen. would make that happen so what general gration talks about whether unity or a peaceful coexistence or separation, how do we do that? it is part of the three elections and the political process but we have to make it less of a zero sum game so it is only a winner and a loser and that the state what they had with the ruling that both sides thought that they had

won something that is part of the why it has been accepted without any violence so far. >> how do explain the rise of violence in the south in certain areas? is that localized, tribal or north/south. >> a little of both. but they're very much on the rise one quote states there were more deaths in southern sudan then there was then that darfur. that is a scary statistic. if the international community does not rally around to try to take out the zero sum game, to make it a and all win or all or nothing situation, then we do not take away the incentive for the

government to put spoilers in the mix. but is held government's around the world but if we don't take away some of those possibilities by giving them some real thoughts of how they can work through some of the process these so the outcome of the elections will be respected the outcome of the referenda, the two of them will be respected and without violence but felt so if we could get international supporters together with different experience as mr. shinn has suggested it is worth a try to what do you do? the pipeline is not in southern sudan. their house to be some sort of mechanism but will they do with the above the "new york post" 2011?

>> unfortunately we're running up against the clock which i regret enormously to as we could go one publicly for some time we will need to follow-up the but let me close out a couple of quick questions, dr. muhammed, a good darfur peace agreement many people thought lacked a sufficient civil process could you share quickly how can we make sure the civil society is properly heard in the process of this initiative forever with respect to darfur? >> . >> the disagreements from darfur we're seeing now a part

from the destruction of the government of sudan but we think this situation is more dire now. everybody is longing for peace. that is the good momentum to have to make use of it. i think those adjust waiting to see momentum to continue negotiations and it is good momentum but the government of sudan will find the solution for the problem. let them give them hope what the international organization group go back to help with but idp. so they moved together to find

a solution and to make a position and for the piece and come together, it lists list the rebels. and then they have no choice except to except at and that we're very united that across the country with the international community we will achieve peace very soon . . they have to be convinced that

this is in the interest of sudan and our fur generally. it is incumbent upon the international community and the united states to use this opening that the u.s. and the international community seems to have to press this point and to make it clear to khartoum and the ncp this is the occasion to turn a new leaf, to bring more civil society into this. it is critical to do that. i agree it is critical to do that. i don't think the other groups would disagree and the splm component of the government of national unity would probably be supportive of this so i think again there is an opening to do something here. >> i think that is a good note, both of you and your comments unless you want to add to that but i think that is a good note to pull this together, a little optimism in the sense what is possible. i think some of those rebel groups it was my perception over

there are taking advantage of their toyota land cruisers and bonds and money that flows their way is not a lot of liberation theology driving in which these days. so i think we need to call things as we see them and press the opportunities to bring people together to try to resolve this. and we are greatly admiring as you know your efforts over all these years. thank you for your leadership and courage and the national democratic institute racially appreciate what you're doing. as i said we will leave the record open. i know there will be a questions submitted and if you could help us complete the would be terrific. it's been helpful to everybody. senator lugar, do you have any other -- we thank you and

we stand adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> how is c-span funded? >> i have no clue. >> government grants? >> donation? >> advertising for products. >> public money i am sure. >> my taxes? >> how c-span funded? america's cable companies created c-span it as a private business initiative, no government mandate, no government money. >> on friday, connecticut senator christopher dodd

announced he has been diagnosed with prostate cancer. while speaking with reporters, senator dodd also talked about efforts to pass health care legislation. heat led negotiations on the senate health committee, filling in for senator ted kennedy who is being treated for brain cancer. this event took place in hartford, conn., and is just over 10 minutes. >> i will be fine. we called this early. the great thing about the annual physical as you get an early detection of prostate cancer, it is very manageable. the good news is i will be back out and doing all the things you have to do to represent my stay and carry on the efforts that we are engaged in. thirdly, i want imagine something i talked a lot about of the last several weeks, not in the context of the news today. as a member of congress, i have here a good health care plan -- i have a very good health care plan. my health care plan allows it have an annual physical. because i have an annual

physical, i was able to detect prostate cancer very early. i was also able to take time of the past few weeks about the best course of action to follow. i have developed almost encyclopedic knowledge now out of prostate cancer as a result of reading books and talking to people. the best course of action as recommended to me, and my choice in the end, was to do surgery. shortly after be -- shortly after we recess next thursday, i will have surgery at memorial sloan-kettering to remove the prostate cancer. then i will take a day or two in the hospital. i will be back home after that. i will be able to do work at home. they recommend a light schedule. the benefit of being in congress and having it health-care plan is not available to everyone, which is the fourth point i want

to make. that is, 100 people today and the state of connecticut will lose health care coverage, 14,000 people across the country will lose health care coverage. a person who loses health care coverage, that this goal may not be something you could afford. if he could afford the physical, you may not have the resources or coverage to deal with this problem. i am fortunate as a member of congress to have those benefits. one of the things we're fighting for and will continue to fight for is to get this national health care effort past. i know it is controversial and hard. we spend a lot of time in the committees that i chair, and my good friend from massachusetts is struggling from brain cancer. while things fell apart a little bit this week, i am confident we will get back on track. i have received a lot of calls this morning from france. i made the decision last evening about the course of action and made the decision this morning to be here to tell you about it. why now? i first felt, we can talk in

abstraction about health care, but in some ways, what i am going through, many people do. is it important at this gathering reminds people that annual physicals make such a difference. i strongly recommend that men over a certain age get this done every year, particularly prostate cancer. i also want to be up to remind people of the health-care debate. i did not want to be an exhibit necessarily when i was conducting the market. i knew i had prostate cancer all through the month of june when i had the mark up, but i did not want to be the issue. it is not about me. it is those who do not have insurance, struggling every day. with that, i thank you for coming out. i feel fine, i will be fine. we called this early. i look forward to getting back on the trail and doing my job on behalf of the people of connecticut.

do you have anything you want to say? >> we're just looking forward to them getting out of session so we have the opportunity, the girls and i, to be ready to patch you up, get you back out there again, and i like to think that if this is how many hours and put in with cancer, i have no idea how many will do without cancer. >> marc, maybe have a question. i am running for reelection. i will be a little leaner and meaner, but i am running. [applause] i will be running without a prostate, but who knows, maybe that will make me a better candidate. >> how are you going to roll back? you have a lot on your plate. >> august is recess month. we're not in session. we will be out of session next friday until september. it is convenient, i suppose, all

there was the suggestion i should maybe do this sooner rather than later. it fits into that schedule. again, i have been told by others, long conversations with john kerry. i sit next to senator richard shelby and tim johnson, who have both been through this. they had long conversations about what he did and what they went through. colin powell, any number of people, bob dole, others have done this. i did not expect any delays. it does not mean if you are off in isolation. i will be home, and a light schedule is recommended. a week or so, they wanted to take it easy, but i anticipate and about a month i will be up about. >> my question? >> not you go ahead. tom, you go ahead. by seniority. >> you had other options.

how did you evaluate those? >> there are three, four different options you can go through. one is in active surveillance, which at a certain age and conditions is recommended. nobody recommended that, even when i talk to radiologists and surgeons and urologists around the country, everyone rejected that. the other is there is a beam technology that can be used, the radiation, and it is a little bit new. people are not as confident about it. the other alternatives are to radiation pellets, which many have used and been through with great success, or the surgery. it was back and forth. i listen to all the various ideas about it. i do not want to bore you with this, but i decided that the surgery made the most sense in my case. they let me make that choice.

the doctors everyplace said you really have to decide what you think is best for you. really, last evening at about 9:00, talking with jackie, we decided the surgery, looking at everything else, conversations, surgery may the best sense. >> no radiation, no chemotherapy? >> just the surgery. what is that? >> they usually don't use chemotherapy with prostate. it is usually radiation or surgery. >> what about senator kennedy? >> i talked to almost every day. i really kept is very quiet. i did not even tell members of my family about it. as many of you know, i lost a sister three weeks ago the lung cancer, and i did not want her to know about this while she was dying. i did not tell senator kennedy about it until yesterday. we are great friends and i do not think he needed to worry about this.

>> what did he say? >> just, if i can beat mine, you can be yours. he was out on his sailboat. >> why did you picked that date? >> it will be early august, would avert that date is, the second week in august. we are in session all this week. it is the second week. i am not doing it this week. again, i just went back and forth. again, first of all i am impressed with the doctors, highly recommended. we have great facilities here in the state. the general recommendation was, given the proximity of my state, the closeness, and a follow-up i may need, it is close and nearby. i am sorry? i had not thought about that,

mark. >> we had the opportunity to speak to wonderful radiologists and surgeons at dana-farber and johns hopkins and bethesda naval, and friends across the country who happen to be oncologist. and gynecologists here. -- and oncologist sit here. it is one of the situations we probably cannot go wrong with any of the situations as long as he was going to treat it. >> is this going be the first time? >> he will have to listen to all my stories now. we have two weeks. the girls will probably enjoy this a great deal. >> i lost my parents very young. my father was younger than i am when he passed away. my mother was about the same age. my sister was diagnosed on may 22 with lung cancer and died

july 6, very fast. she had small cell cancer, which just raged through her. my brother tom has had some, and i have had some skin cancer. but there were something about my grandmother, when she died very young, in the early part of the 20th century. >> there was no indication. is very common. >> the blood test is the one that has come along. it is hard to detect because of its location, the prostate. even when they do the biopsy, they probe with the needles and so forth, they can miss it. in my case, they picked the when it came back out. the pathology confirmed it. >> senator, the recent studies indicate sometimes -- >> the psa, as i understand

this, if the psa is consistent, that cannot indicate anything. it is what it spikes. mine spiked. that is when they said, let's get a biopsy, and that confirmed it. >> what about your girls? >> they do not know about it yet. >> they are very little and they do not watch tv, except for pbs. we will let them know right before the surgery. >> when you enter doctors think you'll be back to full schedule? >> i think certainly by end of august, full schedule. i anticipate earlier than that, less than a full schedule based on a weaker to, just on what i have been told on what to anticipate. it is surgery. as such, they think the day or so in the hospital, maybe two,

and then you are back home and have you up and about and moving around. again, speaking to everybody i've been able to talk to, without this being widely known, my colleagues in the senate and others, that is what they tell me happened to them. one week or two, sometimes three getting back on your feet, and the various effects afterwards, depending on what your age is an overall physical condition and so forth but the recovery rates are very high with this. in the 97% range. when you are looking at both radiation or surgery, those numbers are about the same. there is some variants, but not much, all within the margin of error as we say in pulling terms. the success rates are very high with this. i feel very confident we will be in great shape. thank you so much. >> good luck. >> thanks. >> this week, as expected, the

senate judiciary committee voted to recommend confirmation of sonia sotomayor as supreme court justice. what's the committee debate and see the vote today on c-span at 7:00 p.m. eastern. the next week, her confirmation moves to the senate floor. live coverage of the full senate debate on c-span2. coming in october, on c-span, look at the homes of america's highest court, the supreme court. >> on c-span radio, radio,lbj phone calls, republican presidential nominee richard nixon, an evangelist billy graham, today at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span arabia. >> secretary of state hillary clinton is traveling to africa next week. she plans to meet with african leaders. state department officials briefed reporters about the trip on this half-hour briefing.

>>. afternoon, everyone. welcome. today we have ambassador johnny carson who will speak with you about the upcoming trip to africa. the assistant secretary will make some brief remarks and then take questions. before asking questions, if he could just identify yourselves and your news organization. i will turn this over to ambassador carson. >> robert, thank you very much. it is a pleasure to be with you this afternoon to talk to you a little bit about secretary clinton's forthcoming. to africa. she will travel to kenya, south africa, angola, the democratic republic of congo, nigeria, liberia, starting on august 4, returning to the nine states on august 14. the triple start at the u.s.

sub-saharan africa trade and cooperation forum in nairobi, kenya, where she will deliver a speech at the ministerial opening ceremony of the form on august 5. the secretary's trip comes three weeks after president obama's trip to ghana, and will underscored the administration's commitment to making africa and priority in u.s. foreign policy. this is the earliest. -- this is the earliest. by the secretary of state and the president to africa of any previous administration. the secretary will underlined america's commitment to partner with governments in the private sector, non-governmental organizations, and private citizens to build societies

where each individual can realize their full potential. the secretary's trip follows the themes laid out by president obama during his visit to ghana -- supporting strong and sustainable democratic governments, both promoting sustainable economic development, strengthening public health and education, assisting and prevention, mitigation, and resolution of conflicts around africa. it the united states wants to partner with african leaders to advance the president's vision, which is also a vision shared by many african leaders as well. secretary clinton will stress also the importance of facilitating social and economic business ship, encouraging a new generation of young african it scientist, small business leaders, and civic leaders who are trying to seek resolutions

to it africa's challenging problems. the secretary will also discuss ways to foster good regional governments, part during with regional leaders to band together to prevent conflict and violence, including gender-based violence, democratic erosion, and transnational threats that challenge africa. the secretary will also meet with the president of somalia possible transitional federal government. at that meeting will occur in nairobi, kenya. some say briefly a little bit about -- let me say something briefly about the country's and the secretary schedule in those countries. in kenya, she will be attending the and all form, -- you'll be attending the angola forum. she also intends while intended to meet with the president and

the prime minister. she will encourage both of those leaders to move forward with their efforts to rewrite the country's constitution and to prevent a return to the kind of violence that erupted in the country in january and february of 2007, following the very difficult and fold presidential elections there. from kenya, the secretary will move on to south africa, where she will have an opportunity to meet the leadership of south africa's new government. she will meet with president shake-up zuma -- jacob zuma and also south africa's new foreign minister. ithis will give us an opportuniy to talk with south african leaders about the issues such

as zimbabwe and hiv aids it. the united states and south africa have much in common. the secretary will use this to strengthen an important relationship in south africa with a country which is the engine of that region's growth. from south africa, the secretary will move on to angola. it is one of the largest energy producers in sub-saharan africa and is a major supplier of both petroleum and lng to the u.s. market. the secretary will meet with the president and she will also renew her acquaintance with the angolan foreign minister, with whom she met here in washington approximately a month ago. it is the desire to strengthen that relationship with one of

southern africa's emerging countries, a country which has enormous economic potential. from angola, the secretary will move on to the democratic republic of the condo. in the condo, she will have -- in congo, she will have to stop spreading -- she will have two stops. she intends to meet with president and the condoleezza foreign minister. during a stop, she wants to put a great deal of focus on the issue of sexual and gender-based violence which is occurring in the eastern congo. as many of you know, it has been torn by civil strife, a great

deal of conflict since 1994, 1995, largely as a result of the movement from rwanda into the eastern congo. the secretary is deeply concerned about the gender-based violence which is occurring in the eastern congo, well _ america's commitment to try to end this gender-based violence, and will meet with some of the victim's who have suffered from it. the secretary also intends to encourage and pushed the congolese government, as well as the u.n. peacekeeping force there, to take a much more aggressive stance against gender-based violence. .

>> nigeria is probably the most important country in sub-saharan africa, 140 million people, many of which are muslims. it is also a source of petroleum imports for the united states. it provides approximately 8% of america's petroleum, and the

largest supply of our crude. nigeria has also been a contributor to stability and peace keeping in west africa. the secretary will discuss with the nigerian government, a range of issues, including west african security, the need to continue to move forward in strengthening its democracy, dealing with corruption, and also promoting a stronger economic development. from nigeria, the secretary will move on to liberia. liberia is one of our most -- is a historical one of our most important relationships. she wants to push support for president johnson, the only

female african president. liberia, before she became president, had faced 20 years of intermittent and often very violent conflict. the secretary wants to use this visit to demonstrate u.s. support for the democratic progress that has occurred in liberia. support for the u.s. commitment -- offer assistance, and in a security sector reform. the final stop on the president's trip will be in -- and i'm sorry, the secretary's trip. [laughter] that may have been a freudian slip.

the secretary's trip, she will and it in cape verde, an african success story. it is a country that is democratically run, well managed, and the country that used to the economic assistance it has received from the united states, including a large millennium challenge account grant, extraordinarily well. it will reaffirm our friendship with cape verde. i will stop there, nor for the -- no freudian slips. >> i want to ask about the meeting with the somal presidenti in nairobi -- is the somali president in nairobi. there were some very strong

words, and the warning about the role they are playing in somalia. i am wondering what the thinking is right now on how to deal with this? are you considering sending more ammunition and supplies, providing more training for the somalis? >> the united states strongly supports the djibouti process. we think that this government, which has support of egad, a regional commission, and the au can restore -- the last 20 years have seen enormous violence and civil conflict. we think the problems in

southern somalia have started to bleed regionally and internationally. in kenya to the south, we have seen 270,000 refugees, 5000 to 6000 refugees going across the border into kenya, putting enormous stress on that country's infrastructure, and is also a burden for the un. we have seen the emergence of piracy as a major issue, largely because of the continuing instability in somalia. the support for sharif and his government offers an opportunity to be able to restore civility -- restore stability.

the two groups taht -- that are working against them. we are prepared to provide additional assistance to the tfg government. we continue to support amassam, which as you got in the -- ugandan troops on the ground. we continue to work with the egad states to find issues -- solutions to the problem of somalia. the government has not played a positive role in helping to resolve the problem. somalia is a place where they have been -- we would hope that they would cease and desist their support for al shabab,

that they would not allow their country to be used as a safe haven or conduit to move munitions or money into the hands of extremists in somalia. the have an opportunity to play a positive role in the region. i believe ambassador rice made our position quite clear. this is not just an opinion of the united states, it is the opinion of egad, and the african union. >> in terms of aid, you expect anything new to be announced? >> i do not think so. the secretary will -- at the meeting will be the secretary's first opportunity to meet with president sharif, and hopefully, we will get an opportunity to hear from him on how he sees the situation on the ground.

>> you said that part of the reasoning behind the secretary and the president going so soon to africa is to show our key foreign policy priority. how will we be able to do that when the obama administration has so many other foreign policy priorities? it is dealing with iraq, afghanistan, north korea. are you going to look more at investment? the african continent is quite cynical and many ways about the u.s. making promises and not coming through with them. >> the administration is committed to africa. the administration is capable of handling multiple foreign policy issues at one time. i think that you will see it demonstrated, not only in the

presence of senior u.s. officials to visit the continent -- i think you will see it unfold in support for old initiatives that remain valid, but also new initiatives that the administration is committed to pushing forward. one of these initiatives which is starting to take place is in the area of food security. the administration has made that a high priority. the secretary has made that a high priority. she will talk about it a great deal in africa, kenya, and a number of other stops. the president has spoken about the need to help africa deal with its cultural crisis and concerns. it was the focus of the president's made initiative at the g-20 meeting.

approximately three weeks ago -- we all know that agriculture remains a centerpiece in africa 's economic fabric. some 70% of all african households depend either primarily or secondarily on agriculture as a source of their livelihood. it is an issue that deserves attention, especially in light of the fact that the green revolution that has helped transform much of asia and latin america over the last 20 or 30 years has not yet reached africa. this is aimed at helping africa meet its food crisis challenges as well as helping to stimulate

regular agricultural productivity and agribusiness. the administration can handle multiple foreign-policy issues, and is determined to do so. six months into the new administration, it has gotten off to a faster start than any previous administration with respect to its focus and interest on africa in dealing with the challenges and helping african states to open up the opportunities for greater economic progress and development. >> we only have time for one more question. >> we will go one, two. >> it is an 11-day trip.

>> i hope many of you will be joining the secretary. that is perfectly all right. i have nothing against the press. i just don't like to be quoted by it. >> i will keep it brief. on zimbabwe, how much will that factor into the trip, the talks with the south africans and other nations? could the trip be a moment to have a new initiative on zimbabwe? the administration has reached out to many parts of the world, or will this be a continuation of policies to further isolate the government? >> the secretary intends to talk about zimbabwe with the leadership in south africa.

we will seek their views on how they see the situation involving -- evolving. their primary leader to continue to press the government to fully implement the global political agreement that he signed with the prime minister. we will also seek to work with south africa and the regional states to ensure that the gpa is fully implemented, and that country is able to -- and that that country is able to return to democratic rule. we have tried to reach out to the zimbabwean government. in the past three weeks, i,

myself have met with the president of zimbabwe. i have also met with the president -- the first time a senior u.s. official has done so in many years. again, trying to encourage reform, progress, a commitment to the gpa, and we will continue to do so. my meeting was a little bit difficult, but we continue to try to make progress. >> quickly, on the oil countries you're going to, can you be specific on what you will be looking for in nigeria? nigeria's election was a disaster. what does she want from the energy producing countries?

and can you address the rivalry there if it is spurring her to go there? >> the secretary is going there because we have serious political, economic, and hydrocarbon interest in those countries. in nigeria, u.s. oil companies play a significant role, both an investment and production. u.s. investment in nigeria and oil production and the service industry is well in excess of $15 billion. we're one of the leading purchasers of south african -- sorry, of nigerian oil. we think it is important to discuss with nigeria, a range of issues. we are concerned about having a

good energy relationship with them. we are interested in seeing them continue to play a positive regional role, including providing peacekeepers to key conflict areas. we also believe it is important for them to deal with some of their domestic issues. we would like to see greater improvement in derelict world performance -- in electoral performance to strengthen their democracy. we also want them to address issues of corruption and transparency. when there is a great deal of corruption, it makes the business extremely difficult. there was a point that the president made in his speech to the speechin ghana. -- speech in ghana. if you respect to government's

rule of law, it is easier to draw in investment opportunities because people are assured that they will be treated fairly. these are all issues -- the range of issues are there. the secretary is going because we have interesting working with angola and nigeria, and strengthening our relationship with two major countries, oil producing countries on the continent. we want to work with them on global issues and the environment, issues that are important to them as well as us. our present as it has nothing to do with anyone else's operations on the continent.

it is a -- >> are they putting enough pressure on those countries in terms of governments? not lecturing the africans as much as the u.s. is. >> i hope the united states is not lecturing anyone, but having diplomatic discussions and dialogues. respect to those that are mutually beneficial for the united states and countries that we deal with. i think it is important to respect african governments and leaders, to work with them to resolve problems and challenges that they have. and to be able to engage on these issues, we have and should encourage countries, wherever

they are, to do the same thing. if countries are not paying attention to human rights issues, issues of child soldiers, mismanagement, we need to talk to those governments about encouraging them to do the right thing, which is not only right for them, but also the countries that they deal with. >> is ian going to be able to answer these questions, because i do not think he is. is anything sudan related going to happen on this trip? >> we will get back to you. >> transportation secretary ray lahood will talk about the cash for cut -- cash for clunkers program and related issues. it is live at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> george wythe signed the

declaration of independence, and he was also murdered. the killings that shocked the nation. at 8:00 p.m. eastern and pacific on c-span. >> now homeland's security secretary janice napolitano talking about the obama administration's efforts to engage the public at large. it is about an hour. >> a good morning. i am paul steiger, welcome to today's council on foreign relations.

participants are viewing this meeting via live webcast on www.cfr.org. for those of you in the room, please turn off -- and not just put on vibrate, your cellphones, blackberrys, and anything else you have so as to not interfere with the sound system. the secretary of homeland security, janet napolitano, leads the department of 225,000 people. the deal with disasters resulting in acts of god or acts of man. she has led the federal response to the swine flu, and the obama

administration oppose the efforts to contain drug cartel violence along the southwest border, among other things. -- the obama administration's efforts to contain drug cartel violence. homeland security combines 22 separate agencies. border patrol, federal emergency management, tsa, fema, the coast guard, the secret service. secretary napolitano two -- was a two-time governor of new mexico. she is an avid hiker, and an accomplished mountain climber. ladies and gentleman, please join me in welcoming the secretary of homeland security, janet napolitano.

>> good morning, and thank you very much. i want to thank paul for your kind introduction, and i want to thank the council on foreign relations for hosting us today. i see steve flynn here. like other colleagues at the council, he has been doing good work on homeland security. it is good to be back here. the last time i was here was on a panel on emigration. in the department of homeland security, it is a large government departments. we have an efficiency review, looking for ways to make sure that we spend every penny we get wisely. i thought i would bring my membership dues here today so i could save the cost of postage.

paul, i will leave these here for you. the council is an institution i deeply appreciate because it is one of the rare places where people will show up early in the morning at breakfast time to hear about threats of terror and the government's response. this will be the highlight of your day. the last topics we are discussing are with us. so it is important that the council be priced of what the department is doing to meet those challenges. president obama has been very forceful about seeing the threat of terrorism in all of its complexity -- today, i will speak candidly about the urgent

need to refocus our counter- terrorism approach. to make it more layered, networked, and brazilians. to make it smarter and more adaptive. and as a nation, we are at the point where we are in a constant state of preparedness, and not a state of fear. the challenge is not just using federal power to protect the country, but also enlisting a much broader societal response to the threats that terrorism proposes. the efforts of keeping america secure should be rooted in the values that define our nation. shared responsibility, standing up for what is right, these are the values that led us to fight and win wars, and were on

display after the september 11 attacks. we must embrace them again now. how do we secure our homeland and stay true to our values? we do it with four levels of collective response. it starts with the american people. from there, it extends to local law enforcement. from there, up to the federal government and out beyond our shores or america's international allies can and do served in partners in a collective fight against terrorism. in the last four weeks, i have traveled nearly 30,000 miles from islamabad to seattle, engaging partners at all of these levels. we have brokered international agreements, launched new partnerships, and encouraged citizens to play their part in our collective security. we face a common thread that

requires a collective response. we must face that threat and coordinate the response, involving a highly networked world. it takes on many forms. the cyber network that works our criminal infrastructure is now a target and is vulnerable to attack. it forces us to rethink how best to protect our values and security in the world will the tools for creating violence and chaos are as easy to find as the tools for buying music online or restocking in inventory -- an inventory. we cannot forget that the 9/11 attackers conceived of their plans in the philippines, plant in malaysia and germany, recruited in saudi arabia,

trained in pakistan and afghanistan, and carried them out at the united states. that is why our homeland security network should be built to leverage multipliers. the cooperation of our international allies with the full powers of the united states federal government, the diligence of the police on the beat, and the untapped resources of millions of our own citizens. today, i will assess progress at ground zero, a special place for our country, and a poignant one for the department of homeland security that was treated as a response to the 9/11 attacks. we met with congressman lee hamilton, tom ridge, and others to discuss the progress made in the five years since the release of the 9/11 commission report.

they were right to know our achievements. progress to a secured homeland does not belong to one political party. much has changed in the past six months as i became the third secretary of homeland security after my distinguished predecessors. let me give you a sense of how i see the threat environment that we are in, talk about what we're doing to counter that threat, and the four response areas i just identified. what does the world we face look like today? first, while the tariff threat is ever changing, it is critical to reiterate that the threat remains. the consensus view of the intelligence community of which dhs is a member, it is persistent and evolving. as a member of the president's

national homeland security council's, this is something that i discuss with the president and the rest of the security team on a regular basis. we're looking for ways to better share information up and down the response letter i just described. the individuals, communities, local law enforcement, the federal level, and the international level. the broader context here is that we have invested considerably in our border and port security, and thus substantially reorganize the federal government to focus better on the threat of terrorism. at the same time, there have been continued attacks against our allies. make no mistake. americans continue to be targeted in terror attacks. just two weeks ago, american hotels were the target of bombings that killed eight people and injured six americans.

six americans were among the 164 people in the attacks in mumbai. three americans were among the 54 killed in the attack on islamabad. if 9/11 happened in a web 1.0 world, terrorists are in a web 2.0 world now. they were in their infancy or did not even exist in 2001. therefore, more than just hardware, we need new thinking. when we add a prominent computer hacker to our homeland security advisory council, as i just did, it helps us understand our own weaknesses that could be exploited by our adversaries. the threats we face are, by their very nature, asymmetrical.

it does not rely on links to an army or a sovereign state. we often hear this is what our globalized era looks like. today's environment is also networked. in the networked world, information, true and false, moves everywhere all the time. everyone who is part of the network, that means all of us should be ready and willing to address the vulnerabilities. our team needs to be better trained and better network to. -- better networked. it means we need an approach to

preparedness for natural disasters and terrorist attacks. we need to anticipate in expanding range of threats. the threat of a nuclear device is a great concern, and reducing that threat is a key administration priority. we must be equally prepared for biological or chemical threats which are capacities that al qaeda has sought for years. and given our responsibilities for enforcing our immigration laws and protecting our ports of entry, we are also keenly aware that illegal immigration is not only a matter of sovereignty, but could pose a national security threat as well. the reality that potential terrorists could use a variety of ways to enter the country illegally, fake documents, make

this so. vhs -- dhs monitors this as well. these could be individuals radicalized by events abroad or a lone wolf attacks. we are spending considerable time and attention on the cyberworld. under the obama administration's new cyber plan, dhs obtains the lead role to protecting government and civilian sites and working closely with the private sector as well. while the shock and pain, images of 9/11 stays with us, terror is even more centralized and adaptive that on 9/11. we make use of gps devices, satellite phones, google earth,

and even live cable tv. we cannot see all of this country, the united states, from the rest of the world. we have to multiplied the effect of our forces, and at the same time, it is inhospitable to violent extremism. at his historic speech in cairo, president obama has begun a different type of dialogue. it unites us, rather than divides us. along with civil rights and civil liberties, our country is about building stronger relations areas like the south asian communities so we can share information with community leaders in a timely manner, and

also become more culturally attuned to issues that members of these communities often face. so what is the right response? what are we doing? as i mentioned earlier, there are four layers. the one place we start is to engage the american people in our collective effort. i am often asked if complacency is a threat in the united states. i believe the short answer is yes. i think a better question is this. has the united states government to done everything it can to educate and engage the american people? the answer there is no. for too often, we have treated the public as a liability to be protected rather than as an asset in our nation's collective security. this approach has allowed confusion, anxiety, and fear to

lender. -- to linger. this is no small matter, it is an issue for us. we may be better prepared as a nation that we were on 9/11, but we are nowhere near as prepared as we need the -- need to be. there are acts that are inherently governmental. a smart government knows what it does best and helps others do their best as well. here is how we're looking at this. first, with respect to individuals and the private sector, we are taking a much closer look on how we can form our greatest asset, individual citizens, and the private sector. your the first to know if there is something not right in your communities like a suspicious package.

it was an attentive store clerk that told authorities about men trying to duplicate extremist dvd's. this led agents to round up a plot to kill american soldiers at the fort dix based in new jersey. just last month, a passenger sought to employees exchange a bag at the philadelphia airport -- sought to employees exchange aback at the philadelphia airport that had not been properly screened. they prevented a gone from being brought on the plane. -- a gun from being brought on the plane. there are ways that you as individuals can engage right now. with basic training, everyone of us can become better first printers as well as first

responders. you can use ready.gov to make an emergency plan for family or volunteer by contacting your local citizen corps. you can get free trading on basic disaster response by joining a local group or community emergency response team. second, we need to find new ways to work with the private sector to become more resilient to disasters of all kinds. the key to this is preserving our nation's critical infrastructure. this sounds like a challenge only for the government, but 85% of our critical infrastructure is owned by the private sector. these are critical. these are commercial facilities, chemical plants, emergency services. much of it in private hands. we must therefore be more effective at defining our

critical assets and defining our private sector, giving their leaders the assistance to be able to secure these assets. since 2003, dhs has issued more than $28 billion in grants to help secure critical infrastructure at the state and federal level. it has to be more than dollars. there has to be an active engagement of employers that work with us and a federal government to identify resources and plan for ways to secure them. i recently appointed a task force to review our existing color coded threat system. that was the system originally designed to inform the public and the different economic sectors about impending threats.

that review is underway. i mentioned it only to say that if a better, more effective system can be found, that can be used instead of the current color coded one. just to see how the federal government rethinks what it needs to provide active information to individuals, businesses, and employers. the second layer is local law enforcement. we will go out from individuals -- you have 780,000 law enforcement officials across 18,000 state, local, and tribal law enforcement agencies. let me say those numbers again. 780,000 across 18,000 apartments. these men and women play an absolutely critical role because they are the ones with information they have received

from their own observations or from the intelligence community itself. the ability of state and local officials to prepare for threats and respond to disasters are only as good as their ability to receive useful information, understand what it means, and act upon it effectively. as arizona governor, i took a lead role in taking our state's law enforcement fusion center. an fbi agent might be sitting night to -- sitting next to a highway patrol officer who might be next to a nation -- to an agent from the dea. they share databases and techniques. they share ideas and experiences. they break down barriers and build networks.

this ensures that local law enforcement has better information necessary to protect our people, our neighborhoods, our infrastructure. fusion centers are, and will be, a critical part of our nation's homeland security priorities. we will build them, and prove them, and work with them. we have three dozen intelligence analysts out in the field. in other words, as we build a the infusion centers, we need to move analytic capacity from the belt way of the country. i will take it out of the terrorism context for a moment. if every law enforcement agency reports a particular type, that is a data pool. a piece of intelligence.

a whole range of agencies working together in a particular fusion center can analyze that trend, understand what it means, how it will affect particular neighborhoods, and whether it foretells something larger on the horizon. in addition to the 70 current fusion center sites, the department will be collaborating with the department of justice and the fbi with over 100 joint terrorism task forces. you see how we are creating the network with individuals, private sector, and law enforcement community. then we move on to a federal role. since 2001, the united states government has invested considerably in organizing itself to counter the threat of terrorism. dhs obviously portrays a critical role here because we have been given the mission to protect our country.

we have an obligation to be clear about that mission. we are not the fbi, and we are not the cia. but we need to work in close coordination with them and with all agencies with a counter- terrorism portfolio. the way we're doing that is taking information shared amongst the government and improving the sharing of information up and down the ladder to state, local, and tribal communities. to the private sector. the addition of the ability to share intelligence is the value added that the department of homeland security provides. cpb, customs of border protection is now handling 127 points of entry. the coast guard is patrolling thousands of miles of american coastline.

their effectiveness all depends on the smooth flow of information and intelligence. their actions are pivoted from actual information. as we improve intelligence sharing among federal agencies, and in turn with our own department components, we also improved intelligence sharing with state, local, and the tribal partners. next, our international partners. at the widest level, we have many partnerships that exist internationally, as well as more that need to be created. i mentioned a traveling 30,000 miles in the last few weeks. here is what that is really about. dhs, together with the department of justice and others, is brokering agreements with others around the world to

share information about travelers, to gather biometric information so we know who is in our country, to scan baggage and cargo affectively while facilitating legal trade and commerce. our physical united states border should be our last line of defense, not our first. together with the department of justice, we have forged agreement to prevent and combat serious crime with 13 international partners. there is more to do on this front. i want to give you a window into how important these partnerships are. let me show one example of our new approach in thinking. our growing relationship with mexico is part of a broader effort to, and is designed to interdict not only smuggling of narcotics cop and the --

narcotics, weapons, and cash, but also designed to recognize our homeland and dressed in the united states and mexico -- our homeland interests in the united states and mexico. we want to make sure that mexico, the crime there and the cartel's there, are broken up. this approach with our international partners is a new approach that we think is critical to dealing with things like cartel violence. it also helps to ensure that that violence does not spill over across our border. we're going well beyond what we have done in the past. for example, by inspecting southbound train cargo, cars and trucks, and helping mexico create an effective customs operation on our common

southwest border that previously did not exist. let me close by going back to something i said earlier about people, because in the end, what we really do is about people. we are a nation of more than 300 million. more than that, we are a nation of families, communities, organizations, cities, suburbs, tribes. all the local governments and organizations. within these groupings allies an extraordinary pool of talent, ingenuity, and the strength. we must meet it with a network response. securing the nation against the threat of terrorism is a large job, and it may never be totally completed. but we have a much larger chance of success and strengthening our own networks by enlisting the talents and energies of our americans. countering the terrorist threat is not the effort of one agency.

it is one element of society. nor is it the consequence of one tactic. it requires a holistic approach at all levels, at all tactics, and all elements of society. we need to be the very best at what we do. that means empowering our citizens to be part of our collective effort. an effort at effective prevention, and resilience response. when i hear the phrase department of homeland security, i think of us as a hub. a hub of a very large wheel that involves every single person in our community. thank you all very much. [applause] here is the check. [laughter]

>> thank you for a terrific and comprehensive look at the terrorism issue. he reminded me i have not sent in by check yet. i will do that right away. i want to give the members as much of an opportunity to have that you, but i can't resist asking you a couple of questions myself. aretha franklin one of many to know that every chain has a weak link. -- was one of many to note that every chain has a weak link. >> i thought she sang about respect. [laughter] >> that, too. as you seek to create this

nation of individuals, how you bring the less adept or less committed into the network so that we have got, across the country, a kind of powerful, involved a citizenry that you're talking about? >> one of the things we need to do is communicate that. unfortunately, the terrorist threat is not just focused on the new york city, washington d.c., or a few other urban areas. indeed, if you look at the last couple of weeks, a arrests have been made in places like minneapolis and north carolina. the communication of the breadth of the threat is important. even as we educate, we prepare.

a lot of this preparation that i am talking about has multiple uses. particularly in terms of response, if you know, or have planned with your family, what you would do if an attack occurred, that planning obviously has uses it should you have a tornado, a hurricane, or other natural disaster. education broadly, but connected with also, preparation and tools. how do you respond? individual, family, and working with communities. >> you also alluded to the undeniable fact that terrorism can emanate from all kinds of places around the world. intelligence is very important.

the number of possible threats is infinite. how do you focus on the most important ones? in the resistance of people, let's say, at the cia to share with the fbi and vice versa is legendary. how're you doing getting them to share with you and have a tough time sharing with each other? -- when they have a tough time sharing with each other? >> there has been a legacy of not sharing in some respects, which is a luxury we can no longer afford. that is why we have a director of national intelligence. our group -- one of the principles that names the head of the fbi, the cia, myself, we will be meeting tomorrow. we regularly have lunches, just ourselves, no staff.

we want to make sure that we are effectively communicating the sharing of information. the fact that i, as secretary of homeland security received a daily intel brief, not just from members of the department of homeland security, but also for example, from a cia briefer make sure -- it makes me sure that i am receiving the intelligence. we are intent on exercising how we handle and tell -- intel, and how we respond. there is a national exercise under way that will test some of the sharing capacity, whether things are being shared and whether responses are being correctly calibrated. personal interaction, defacto

interaction on a daily basis, and exercise are the major techniques to improve that intelligence sharing environment. >> one more quickly, and i will go to the members. any learnings from the swine flu situation, which turned out to be much less bad that people feared -- than people feared? >> first of all, wash your hands. [laughter] over the summer, we had a lot of work done on h1n1. why? we anticipated it would come back this fall. it focuses on a younger population than seasonal flu. we will not have a vaccine available before the school year starts. we are trying to prepare and a network to test the ideas i just

suggested. it involves preparation for this fall, and the return of the h1n1, in what could be, we don't know, but it could be a more severe form of the h1n1, because it travels -- it mutates as it travels. one important thing i might add, the h1n1 was -- during that outbreak, the president used an executive order to designate the secretary of homeland security as the principal federal official. in other words, this was an event that crossed many different departments, agencies, and federal government. for the first time, the department of, and security was used in a way -- at the

department of homeland security was used in a way it was originally intended. it was such an important role to make sure that things are properly coordinated and communicated with the american people. >> i would like the audience to join it. but remember a couple of things. wait for the microphone. stand, identify yourself. one question, no speeches. >> it is right behind you. .

>> thank you for your remarks. i want to just roll down on something you said about infrastructure, that 85% of the infrastructure is privately managed. the question has to do with, to what extent can you interact with the private sector when they lay off people, and those layoffs have direct implications on protecting the public. for example, payphones in new york city practically do not exist. at 911, the only phones that work were pay phones. cell phones are highly incompatible. how would you broker that?

there is a financial incentive to eliminate pay phones. homeland security needs them. >> in that situation, you have to say all right, you do not want to continue that anymore. what is your plan for how people can be -- communicate with each other in the type of disaster that may occur? the point here is, and points out how technology has changed, and is changing rapidly. the more we work together, we can share ideas about how to use different types of technology in an area where the pay phone may be obsolete. i think there are pretty much

obsolete across the country, going the way of the record album and other things of our youth. >> madame secretary, given what you have learned on the job over the past six months, both about the nature and magnitude of the threat, and whatever abuses may have occurred in previous -- in the previous the ministration, do you think the laws governing domestic surveillance need to be changed in any way? >> i think that to the extent that domestic surveillance is being carried out, it is as much an indication of operations as of legal authority. it is more de facto than du jour, if i can use those phrases.

let me make an important point. as i discussed a culture of awareness, individual preparedness, the ability to identify suspicious activities and the like, there is a careful balance to be struck between that and the feeling like we are trying to create a culture where everyone is buying on you. that is a balance to be struck, and it is an important one that we all discussed collectively. what we do want is something that helps provide for our collective safety. that is something that we all need to be conscious of. we are building into it to the things we are doing, not only about constitutional and civil liberties aspects about what we are doing. we also look at issues about privacy and protection of personal privacy, and how those

concepts and principles can also be incorporated, even as we build a culture of collective awareness and preparation. >> we are delighted when you were appointed dhs secretary, and we are disappointed with the expansion of enforcement mechanisms that continue the past, particularly around immigration. we have a broken immigration excess some -- a broken immigration system. racial profiling continues to be a big problem in this country, and in your remarks around protecting against terrorism, we did not hear much about protection against racial profiling or the restoration of due process and fairness into systems that actually protect individuals, citizens, permanent residence, and other people who

live in the united states. we would like to hear your thinking about why you are expanding enforcement without fixing a broken immigration system. >> first of all, we are expanding enforcement, but i think in the right way. we have revisited the whole issue of worksite enforcement, the focus on employers, the program referenced, we short- handed as 287-g, which allows state and local law enforcement to have a level of understanding to have some immigration of 40, otherwise it is exclusively federal. we did that because the previous m.o. really had no standards, accountabilities, or even terms built into them.

rather than just continue with moa's that were very vague and did not allow us to prioritize, we decided to redo all of them. when we do that, we will expand some other communities, although not all that have requested them. that will give us authority to focus on two groups, those who are already incorporated, so we do not have a system where somebody breaks a criminal law, they are handled in the criminal system, and then released them to the public, and then ice or emigration has to go out and find them, which uses an extraordinary amount of resources. two, really looking for gangs and also criminal fugitives to happen to be in the country illegally. secure communities -- that is a

way to have the emigration database right in prisons and the like and trained -- and to train correction officers on how to use them properly, so as people finance -- finish their sentences, the deportation or removal process can be done smoothly. i started this when i was governor of arizona at the arizona prison system. it is a very effective way to make sure that those types of immigrants who have already broken our criminal laws in addition to immigration laws go into the process. you may disagree with that as an enforcement strategy. i think it is the way to target a strong enforcement strategy. on the overall immigration law, i agree with you. i believe we need to look at the whole package. i cannot obviously do that by myself. the congress has to do it. i was with the president when he

met with 30 congressional leaders and said he would like to move something through at the end of this year or the beginning of next year. i am heavily involved in those efforts, as is your senator from new york, center schumer. we need to work together to really look get one bills did not pass in the past, how we build even stronger endorsement to immigration reform, but we need many other things as well. i would very much respect your ideas in that regard. >> he began speaking about developing rules against terrorism and fighting terrorism that are consistent with values. , or there any problems that you see with developing a notion of citizens who have a collective responsibility to report on one another? where is the balance between individuals and excepting people

in the community? >> that is the point i was making earlier about being very sensitive to that. that is where education really comes in. what is something that should be reported and what isn't? there are materials and a variety of aspects that help with that kind of education. the first questioner said what are you doing to educate the young people about that? i think that is where has to start. -- where it has to start. >> my question bears on the same delicate civil liberties issues you have already dealt into. i know it is hard. every profile that the press reports on terrorists, and domestic terrorists, suggests that they made their contacts and had their activities in their mosques, that is where

they meet and plan and work. obviously, surveillance and education has to bear on what might be done in terms of educating those societies and alerting those people to the risks that their communities and other space. is the responsibility -- that others face. is the responsibility in your department, or is it shared? what can you say about that particular focus when we know that so much happens in such a restricted area? >> the direct answer to your question is, that sort of activity is primarily the domain of the fbi. i think we have to be very careful about profiling a

religious institution, just as we have to be careful about profiling individuals. that is why how you develop intelligence that is actionable needs to be very carefully done, and not restricted or done in the religious environment. where we can help, and our approach is to work with leaders in a variety of faith based communities, not just on education, but really to have good community outreach. if they perceive there is something going on that is aimed at violent extremism or extremist attack, they feel comfortable working with law enforcement in advance of that attack. i think we have to be very, very careful about interfering with the free exercise of religion, or profiling in that sense.

>> madame secretary, in the network response is identified a key component, which is greater international cooperation and you lay that out as being in the framework of an effective response as a last rather than first response. how closely do you work with the state department in terms of the projection of american soft power as compared to hard power? it goes a great distance in making sure that the inspector in karachi generally feels that he needs to ferret out