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[roll-call] [roll-call ] [roll-call] >> have all members responded to the call of the rule? -- call of the role?

any member wish to change his or her vote? the clerk will tally the vote. are you ready? >> mr. chairman, final passage on a vote the ayes are 31 the nays are 28. 31-28, the bill is approved. [applause] >> mr. chairman -- i asked that we have the usual number of days for people to put statements in the record and a

minority to offer their views. >> without [unintelligible] the that would be the order. that completes our business and we stand adjourned.

>> where we stand on health care legislation now? >> as we head into the traditional congressional recess president obama has made great progress on the legislative front. there are a total of four different congressional committees that have passed versions of the health care reform bill. but it is important to note that was not quite the deadline he was hoping for. he had really wanted the house and senate floors to vote on bills and we're just passed some

committee action. >> what happened in the energy and commerce committee on friday night? >> finally, after two weeks of wrangling, some of it in public and a lot of the behind closed doors, the energy and commerce committee was able to vote out its version of health-care legislation. they struck a number of compromises with conservative democrats on the panel known as the blue dogs. after those compromises, they were able to prove their version of the bill. >> there is one more senate committee with jurisdiction that has not reported a bill out yet. when can we expect that to happen? >> that's an excellent question. we know for sure will stretch into september. so far we hear deadline set september 15. this is the senate finance committee, believed to be the best prospect for some sort of bipartisan consensus on health care legislation. the problem is they have been trying for a few months and have

been unable to reach that. they say they need more time and of the latest we have heard is a have been given a deadline of september 15. >> your story talks in general about the campaign against the president's health care reform. who is leading the battle and what is the strategy? >> it's a very different environment than 1993 and 1994 with the clintons. you have many of the industry players who oppose the legislation back and trying to participate and be a part of the process. ec objections on some of these specific proposals -- but you see big aid set -- big objections on some of these specific proposals. a number of the business groups like the chamber of commerce, the national federation of independent business, retailers, those are organizations in the fed significant problems with some of the proposals. some of the more traditional ideological groups, more

conservative organizations have tended to side with republicans, saying they do not like the shape of legislation so far. >> last week, reaction across the country appeared to be leaning-to the president's plan. as lawmakers it closer to a deal, the we see change from business leaders or the public in general? >> more than anything, what we have seen in surveys, focus groups, and talking to people is that they are confused by the messy business in washington. they are not clear on what exactly make about the process and they feel anxious because for 180 million americans who have some health insurance today, they are concerned it will cost them more money or the quality of care may go down. so they feel unease as to what the impact of what this might be on their everyday lives. >> will we see a sign of

national health-care plan sometime this year? >> if i knew the answer to that, i would be making a lot more money. it is very hard to predict at this time. certainly, president obama has made significant progress so far. he does have a democratic congress, so that should be a help. you see many more people this time around talking about the need for reform. but it's difficult when you get down to specifics. >> thank you for your time. >> the transportation secretary is the guest on "newsmakers" today. he will talk about the cash for clunkers program and related issues. that's today at 6:00 eastern time on c-span. >> george would sign the declaration of independence and was also murdered. tonight, the author of "i am

ordered." as tonight at 8:00 on c-span. >> tonight, the british prime minister before 30 members of the house of commons liaison committee answered questions on the british economy, the banking crisis, had four affairs. that's at 9:00 on c-span. >> now, a heist -- house hearing on threats in the military. the army and marine corps are predicting more suicides by veterans compared to last year. we will hear from to get below panels on efforts to reduce mental stress. susan davis of california chairs the armed services subcommittee on military personnel. this is about two hours in 40 minutes.

>> the mental health status and needs of service members, their families, retirees, and their families relate to most if not all issues held by the subcommittee. whether we are discussing posttraumatic stress syndrome, frequency of diplomacy -- frequency of deployment, mias or pows, the aftermath of a sexual assault, the importance of mental well-being is always involved. we dedicate one hearing year solely to mental health issues. this year's hearing on mental health was originally intended to examine the increase in its bid to of suicide in the military and resume -- review what actions the office of the secretary of defense and military services were taking to address this troubling trend. however, we know that suicide is

not a discrete occurrence or problem. it's the final step the individual takes when they can no longer deal with the stressors in their life. in order to determine why the suicide rate has increased, the entire spectrum of structures must be considered. further, there is a zero sum game aspect to mental health. neither the department cents for the country in general have enough mental health providers. any resources directed toward suicide prevention will have to be directed away from their current allocation. it is important to examine what's going to be shortchanged in order to resources any new suicide prevention program and consider if this will have any negative and intended consequences. for today's hearings, we will have two panels. in the first, we are fortunate

to have the chief of services here to talk with their dealing to deal with the psychological stress on seoul will -- on soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines. we have the vice chief of staff of the army, the vice chief of naval operations, the assistant commandant of the marine corps, and the vice chief of staff of the air force. gentlemen, we look forward to your testimony. we hope to leave this hearing with a clear understanding of how each of your services is addressing the issue. it is important for the headquarters of each military department to a college and address this issue and it's also just as important for individual commanders to understand problems and take positive actions that their level. for our second panel, we have chosen to highlight the positive actions taken by commanders of their own accord to address the psychological stress experienced by their command. we have a lieutenant general

from the army, a commanding general at fort hood to protest pay and that hearing. the general has used his authority to make fundamental changes to this institution is run, with the goal of providing soldiers and families stability and predictability in their schedules. from the marine corps, we have a major general, the deputy commanding general of the second marine expeditionary force who created the office of suicide presenter -- officers to decide train prevention program. the problems we are discussing today cannot be solved today. we wish they could, but we know it's not possible. we must continue to understand and confront the psychological stress our service members and families have to deal with every single day. we must continually evaluate actions taken, gauge their effectiveness, and then determine what must be done.

i will turn over to you for comments. >> thank you and thank you for holding this hearing today. today's hearing continues our commitment to work with the department of defense to find ways to address the psychological stress our service members are struggling to overcome and to continue to improve mental-health services for a military personnel and their families. i encouraged by the direction the department is taken to alleviate psychological stress experienced by our troops, particularly combat veterans. from my own service as a veteran head natural guard and reserve, with [unintelligible] serving in the military, i understand and responsibility for finding the answers to this problem does not lie solely with a military medical department. it is a leadership challenge and i commend the military services for making a mental health of our military and their families

a leadership priority. that said, as the former president of the [unintelligible] health association, i remain concerned that each of the services we're implementing to address psychological stress is disjointed and not well coordinated or communicated. i am anxious to hear from our military senior leaders on the panel's what steps have been taken to develop a comprehensive, multi-disciplined approach to addressing psychological stress. i would like to welcome our witnesses, thank them for their service, and i am particularly grateful to see person to have served at fort jackson, buford naval hospital, which i have the privilege of representing. i want to thank you for participating in the hearing today and i appreciate you providing the extraordinary opportunity of military service which protect american families. i look forward to your testimony.

>> thank you very much. we will begin. general, please. >> madame chairwoman, ranking member and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before each day and provide information on the army's efforts to reduce the number of suicide across the board. this is my first occasion to appear before this is deemed subcommittee that i pledge to always provide an honest and forthright assessment rate i submitted a statement for the record and i look forward to answering your questions at the conclusion of opening remarks. it has been a busy time for our nation's military. we are at war. we have been at war for nearly eight years. that has undeniably put a strain on our people and equipment. unfortunately, a growing segment of the army's population, has seen a great stress of anxiety mathis itself in high-risk behaviors including acts of violence, excessive use of alcohol and drug abuse and reckless driving.

the consequences in the most extreme cases has been extreme incidents of suicide. earlier this year, i visited six posts to conduct sessions and collect data. it became clear to me after leaving the third installation that our mission extended far beyond suicide. simply stated, we must find a way and ways to improve pay for a loss of soldiers and their families. after repeated deployments in the context of the years of war, that is why the secretary of the army and our chief consciously made the decision to expand our efforts to improve a, overall behavioral health and well big of our force -- well-being of our force. we want to [unintelligible] of this serious problem and we must improve the resiliency of our soldiers and their family members. -- their family members. in the past, our approach is

primarily reactive. that has changed. it is in fact proactive. to ratify, access, and mitigate issues before the become significant concerns. to educate soldiers and make sure they are aware and have access to resources and support programs that can provide them with the most benefits. and to assist and treat individuals struggling and may need help. we are confident that by doing so, by improving the overall resiliency, pedro off and well- being of soldiers and their families, we will ultimately reduce the number of suicides across our army. our approach is based on two big ideas -- the comprehensive silver fitness program, which is a big idea that moves us to the left and to promote risk reduction and suicide prevention. we are also taking steps to eliminate the stigma that is frequently kept soldiers from seeking and receiving help. the reality is, and all cases,

there is no simple solution and we must resist any attempt to generalize or oversimplify the challenges we are facing. multidimensional approach to and if i effective program and the mitigation strategies and will take a total team effort across all army components, jurisdictions, and commands as well as cooperation from the department of health, congress, another willing civilian health care providers, research institutes, and care facilities. i can assure you the members of the subcommittee that this challenge remains a top party for the u.s. army. madame chairwoman, members of the subcommittee, thank you for your continued in generous support and demonstrate that an to the outstanding men and women in the united states army and their families. i look forward to your questions. >> thank you very much. >> men to women, distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to

testify about the organizational and command level efforts to prevent suicide. suicide ranks as the third leading cause of death in the navy. it's a loss that destroys families, the state's communities, and unravels a cohesive, social fabric and side are commands. while the symptoms of those who contemplate suicide are unique to each person, a common thread to all but them is a sense of psychological and this that leaves individuals and pared and then able to resolve problems. the steps that leaders take to find solutions to this tragedy must address the underlying causes that affect the ability of an individual to recover from change from misfortune and regain their physical and emotional stamina. the target of our policy and practice is the resilience of individual settlers and their families. this means that leaders must look for and connect to those individuals challenged by seemingly intractable troubles with relationships and work,

financial and legal matters, a deteriorating physical health, and mental health issues and depression. we must eliminate the perceived stigma, shame, and dishonor of asking for help. this is not simply an issue as isolated to the medical community to recognize and resolve. command has a critical role to play for those in need to edit their struggle and seek assistance. some of the more nor -- some of the more noteworthy policies leaders have taken include the chief of naval operations directing an establishment of the prepared this alliance, a consortium led by the chief of naval personnel, the naval reserves, the bureau of medicine, and our commander of installations. to address a continuum of care for medical, physical, psychological, and family issues across the navy. there was operational stress control program instituted which say comprehensive approach designed to address the

psychological health needs of sailors and their families. it is led by operational leadership, supported by the naval medical community, provides practical decision making tools for sailors and families where they can identify stress responses and programmatic attention. by addressing problems early, individuals can mitigate the effects of personal turmoil i get the necessary help for treatment. through training, intervention, response, and reporting, the navy programs for sailors focusing on operational commands to take ownership of suicide training initiatives and tailor them to their unique and cultures. feedback is an important element of policy development. the navy polls and tracks indicators such as stress, financial health, command climate, and sailor and family support. we use this data to monitor and make adjustments in the plymouth practices and track suicidal

acts and gestures. in conclusion on behalf of the men and women in the added six they become a thank you for your attention and to the critical issue of suicide. this will make our force more brazilian and we will everything possible to support our sailors so that, in their eyes, their lives are valued in truly worth living. thank you. >> thank you, chairwoman and ranking member and distinguished members of the subcommittee for the opportunity to report on the marine corps suicide and psychological prevention methods. on behalf of the 240 two thousand active and reserve marines and their families, i would like to extend my appreciation to the support congress has given to its marine corps. i would like to highlight some points from my written statement. the tragic loss of a single marine to suicide is deeply felt by all those who remain behind.

we lost 42 marines to suicide in 2008, up from 33 in 2007 and 25 in 2006. this is unacceptable. we are taking action to turn the trend around. the commandant carries -- , cares deeply about this and wants to work with the leadership to fix this. the data shows the marine most likely to die by suicide corresponds to the institutional demographics. his a caucasian male, 18-24 years old, between the ranks of private and sgt. the most prevalent common thread is a failed relationship. male marines are significantly at greater risk of suicide van female marines. the most common methods of suicide with a marine corps are gunshot or hanging. that's similar to civilian counterparts. suicide prevention is required troops into camp and all new officers.

it's part of the curriculum and our staff and ceo and other professional military education venues. simply put, suicide prevention training is incorporated into a formal education and training at all levels of professional development throughout marines entire career. regretfully, there is no single solution that will likely turn the trend around. rather, we believe it'll be a combination of efforts whose consistent themes are value- based training commentator mark vacation, and leadership. -- so they could take ownership for their peers and marines. our and c.s. have day-to-day contact with these marines as such have the best opportunity to see changes in behavior and other problems that can mark

marines in need of help. as a result, we developed a high impact leadership training program focused on the noncommissioned officers and corpsmen. it is designed to provide additional tools to identify and assist marines at risk for suicide. i have also directed the compact man to take an independent look at the suicide prevention training throughout the marine corps. a special task force began work early this month on how we are training our marines. it will explore how we can modify training at all levels to improve resilience, decrease stigma, and reinforced the themes that marines thrive in hardship. that marines persevere through the strength of our fellow marines and marines did not quit when the going gets tough. in other words, we want to get to the left of suicide. to rapidly raise the level of awareness across the marine corps, one of the% of marines received additional suicide

prevention training during march of this year. it was delivered by leaders and educated marines on all sides in a gauge of with their bodies and how to access the number of resources. with support of the navy, we are increasing our mental health professionals and embedding them in our units where they can develop close relationship with the marines in the attempt to reduce the stigma of seeking help and identifying it affected individuals earlier. while there is no single answer for this crisis, we are committed to exploring every possible exclusion and using every resource we have available. i promised the committee i will rest until this has turned around and i think each and every one of the for your faithfulness to the nation and your competence and leadership with the court. >> -- with the marine corps. >> distinguished members of the committee, i would like to thank

you for the opportunity to appear before you today. it is a privilege to join with the other sister services in addressing this important issue. i want to echo the sentiments and believe we must continue to develop and involvement programs to maintain the psychological health of our service members. your airforce is heavily engaged in the worldwide operations. the demands of frequent deployment, increase workloads adam stations compounded by other external factors like the economic pressures continue to place a heavy burden on our air and and their families. under these conditions, the airforce does not take a business as usual approach to monitoring the physical and psychological well-being of our force. the airforce suicide prevention program requires a personal attention of every arab. the secretary and general, are -- of every arab men. the secretary-general has made

clear that whether you are on active duty, guard, or civilian, leaders across the force must deal with this. with this total approach, we strengthen our efforts in suicide prevention and we worked diligently to heighten awareness and reduce the stigma of seeking help. our goal is to ensure that every aaron is immensely prepared for deployment and redeployment as they are physically and professionally. we continue to emphasize the suicide prevention program, focusing heavily on 11 elements that enhance the psychological health, treatment, and management programs. recognizing the importance of collaboration in this ever, we bring together key representatives from across the airforce in working groups to ensure that we anticipate, identify, and treat the psychological health issues before us. we are also working closely with

our joint teammates to capitalize on best practices we have seen in the other services. while the rest some comfort in the impact these programs are having, even a single suicide is one too many. individually and collectively, the airforce is committed to taking care of our most voluble asset, our air men. i want to thank you for your continued support and look for your questions and further discussions on how we can best serve those who serve our nation. thank you. >> thank you. i would like to thank all of you and i know from your statements that you have submitted as well as your comments today that you take this very seriously and we certainly appreciate that. i wonder if you could expand on your statement a little bit and share with us what has been the most frustrating part of trying to deal with these issues? what would you like us to know as you have had to deal with

this? >> the most frustrating thing is trying to find a cause. this is why we have asked the national institutes of health to do a study. we feel this could be huge, for the army, the department of defense, and quite frankly for america. many of the lessons that will be learned in the study, where we have combined resources of the department defense, harvard, columbia, the university of michigan, have put together a world-class team that is going to have the army and the marine corps to use to gather data, i think this will unlock some of the mysteries of why this happens with some individuals. i think it will get us out of the speculation of someone who has spent 36 years with troops

trying to figure out and look at statistics and determine a cause, to get me out of that business, and into the business of finding the real cause, what works, and what does not. so we can provide for our commanders that which i think will help them in helping prevent suicide. >> have they shared how you might make real-time use of that data as they are developing the study? is that something you have it been able to move forward on? >> they realize this is not business as usual. we are into this and we're not going to wait for results of the study, and the castle institute of health understands. we rolled out the study team a week ago and we already have calendars, their first comeback to us, the initial results will be in early november of this year. they will do this every single

quarter and we will learn as they collect the data and analyze it. >> -- i think the other thing that is frustrating that will give us a leg up that will help us out so much is to increase the amount of 12 time our soldiers have a home. there is no doubt in my mind that the reduced to all-time, turning around rotation's every 12-15 months, is causing a tremendous amount of stress on the force, soldiers, families, and i have to believe the national institute of mental health will identify that early as one of the stressors affecting us. >> thank you. >> it is hard to organize our thoughts when it comes to that question because there are some many different ways to approach this on somebody different levels. on a very personal note, i would

like to play constructive, and packed full role. in this particular area, because you're dealing with some unknown some variables that are hard to even describe and grasp, it is hard to come forward and ask for more resources and solutions to something that requires a connection to take place between people. that is why we try to take a balanced approach to this that calls on the command and operational goals than need be played and try to carve out time and space to look at people and see what people need. what i have heard across panel here is absolute consensus on a climate that allows for that kind of dialogue. absolute consensus on we will leave no good idea on the table. shared best practices between the services in terms of how they will adapt and issue

tickets to their particular culture and the main. what is frustrating for us is not to find correlated data we're looking for. in one sense, you'd think more deployments would be indicative of those that would be more inclined to go down this path and that has not been the case. in fact, what this conversation provokes is an inward look inside our own cultures to see where the checks and balances are, where are the accountability and authority, and how we look after it? we have built article -- we have built our culture on a deployment model. while there may be some exceptions to problems we find in the case of suicide, our folks, while they are deployed generally do ok. we have some horrible pockets within the general population, but the area week to focus on is

when all the checks and balances, and that cocoon live- in when they're on deployment is not taken away. the first six months to return from deployment are the ones in the area that is most vulnerable as well as those who have never deployed. what that does is it flies in the face of what many in the general population sank -- that we have to do this and it's more stressful. the reality is the target needs to be the assimilation of those who have served back into the general population, dealing with the day today, whether families, kids, education, bills, and relationships dressers. >> if members don't mind, we're going to go ahead. >> i'm sure my colleagues exact

-- i share my colleague's exact sentiment here. the marine corps, like all of us, have been deployed in tough conditions for seven years and have done quite well. i know all committee members have probably visited before the plane to come back, they are a happy lot. even though the result lot going on and it's very dangerous, they are happy. when they come home, that's typically what we have issues. the marine corps is unique in that 70% our marines we have on active duty today are on their first enlistment. we are the youngest of all services and we have 42% of our brains are less corporal's and many are not even of drinking age yet. this is a very young population we have. the frustrating part for us, and

i know is shared by my brothers here, is trying to find those common threads you can put fingerprints on and do something about. i mentioned in my opening comments that one of the typical threat is a failed relationship. that seems to be for the young men in the marines, 18-24, that are taking their lives, that seems to be a common thread, but it never seems to be the thing that pushes it over. there are a pile of stressors that if taken by themselves, they can deal with them quite nicely. most marines to deal with it, but is a compilation of those threat -- compilation of those stressors configuring out how to identify them at a time and how to do something about stopping the chain of events that lead someone to take their lives. that is the frustrating part.

we're working very hard but we have only found a couple of things that seem to be common. >> thank you. i would like to echo the comments that have already been made. most frustrating is the fact there is no one single answer. even above that, i would say it's more frustrating for everything we provide given the resources we have. the programs in place, when an individual does reach out and seek help, we are seeing that happen and our numbers are going up. the stigmatism, we're getting past that. people are reaching out for help. you begin to provide that health and then it gets very frustrating when all the sudden, they go along a path and are successful in executing suicide.

to me that is frustrating because you have provided programs and mental health care providers, chaplains, whenever it may be that they're reaching out for, but for some reason, it was not enough. to me, that's the most frustrating. we do have some rather small numbers from 2003-this time. about 25% have been receiving care of some sort. yet, something was not good enough and that is disappointing. we go back and take a hard look, but that's the most frustrating, when you provide things and it is just not enough. you never ever really know what else you could have done to help them not lose hope and despair and commit the faithful act. >> thank you. thank you to all of you for responding. >> thank you for your practice

patient today. i would like to particularly thank the general pointed out the morale of our troops serving overseas. i have had the privilege of visiting 10 times in iraq and eight times in afghanistan. i visited with my former national guard unit in afghanistan and i have two sons serving in iraq. they are proud of their service and we encourage them, and every time i go i'm inspired by the end people serving our country. for all the today, yet each described a broad spectrum of programs that cut across many disciplines within your respective service, and that preventing, recognizing, intriguing psychological stress. how to you identify which services are most appropriate for a particular service member and then coordinate the use of the services between the service member, command, and multiple

organizations that offer services. when i look at continuing incidents as of suicide, even with a number of mental health programs, i cannot help but wonder if your programs are working. what are your thoughts and how our fat -- how effective are your programs for reducing psychological threat and suicide? how are you measuring whether your programs are effective? this is for each member of the panel. >> last year, the army science board looked into the increasing number of suicides and a found 14 pages of programs. a young person looking at what they needed to do to work this issue would be faced with 14 pages of programs. it is clear to all of us that this is not a problem of having too many programs, it's not knowing which ones are the ones that actually have a fact.

we feel we were very successful in getting the focus on this problem with the stand down we conducted in march-april where we use it video, but with the national institute of mental health law of the -- mental- health will help us identify programs that work. we also feel comprehensive soldier said this will move us to the left of this problem. as of today, we have a young officer training at the university of pennsylvania, in resiliency training, who will begin to work with soldiers from the time they enter the army to the time they leave the army. we hold great hope that will move us to the left. >> i would put it in the category of mental welfare and programs associated with that. for the navy, we focus on icons of the fund -- it concept of operations.

we feel we cannot just developed something in the medical community and have a stand in isolation. the focus of our effort now under way and it's to relate to assess, but it tells us we are on the right path. the way we will track this rise heavily on assessment and feedback. question uppermost is what the you do with feedback once you get it? we have learned over the course of this war that we have to have the ability to get back to health professionals on site. we have examples of this we have looked at detainee operations in afghanistan, looking at the rotation rates and wall time and the amount of effort that it took for sailors to take on that responsibility.

when we had food some ground to take a look at it, the feedback we got and the surveys we used to target that particular population, that influence, policy changes, how long they have those, that dwell time they need to have after having a job lined up. whether they are good candidates for returning. in response, what ever program we come up with has to have an understanding that unless we're willing to assess it and measure it, we have no idea whether it's gaining traction. >> thank you. >> the programs we have had in the past, it is part of defense

did not start keeping accurate records on suicide until after vietnam. i remember looking at a chart from 1996 when the department offense began to focus on suicide. i think the fact this subcommittee, the secretary of defense, the service secretaries and service chiefs are putting this much attention to that. it's too soon to tell whether it will have an effect. if you ask me how i'm doing today, i will tell you i'm doing abysmally and not well. but the programs we have had have worked until the last couple of years. this generation, the state of the marine corps was consistent, persistent deployments, i think young men and women wear bringing in are the best we have

seen by far and requires a different approach, one that is more meaningful to them, and we're going back to the basics in the marine corps, not a platitude, but fundamental leadership. the same leadership we have all we are deployed in iraq and we know everything that goes on in your brain, yet we come home and we don't have a lot of time home and we're not spending the attention to detail to the young men and women back home. we are changing that. we are instituting the emcee of training time and a final thing that will take root and may have the most significant effect -- that is to go into entry-level training. with those senior drill

instructors and the other junior constructors, when they look at those young men and women and they're making them marines in 12 weeks, they change their behavior for life. we are working right now to figure out what those precise messages are so when that senior drill instructor who will never forget tells them that marines and your hardship well, we do not take the easy way out, that is where we are going. it is too soon to tell, but we're working fervently on this right now. >> one of the things we're doing and continue to do is build upon the program be instituted back in the 1997 timeframe as far as the air force suicide prevention program does. it has 11 different elements in it and be looked at all our programs all the time. in this integrated delivery system have, brings together

different elements from different organizations from the medical community, the chaplains i mentioned earlier, we have osi and the jag corps. we have recently integrated safety as part of this. what we do with this holistic approach is work across all our programs, even at the headquarters level. we are able to look across all our programs and see what we can do better. we are also participating in the suicide prevention awareness risk reduction committee which is now part of osd. i think that goes to the point you are trying to make, how are we reaching out and getting best lessons and best practices from others so that we can integrate them.

not only at those levels, but even across the services, we're trying to take this approach to see what we can do better. we have learned some things. in march of this year, i instituted a suicide prevention working group. just in the short time they had a meeting, they just briefed me with 33 different initiatives that we will look into to go cross training, policies, and other types of programs we can institute. we are seeing positive things coming about to try to maximize everything available to us and our troops. >> we look forward to receiving your updated reports. >> thank you very much. i sit here listening very carefully and, thank you, gentleman. you have one tough, damn job. because of the war in iraq and afghanistan.

i am looking at an article in the market -- in the "marine *." this is praise -- at least seven marines have appeared to kill themselves in july. that puts the my record pace to spite broadbased efforts, introduced to reduce suicide. you have an impossible situation, but i want to thank you for accepting it not as impossible. when you really want to look at this, this nation continues to wear out and break the military. no matter how tough the marine is or that soldier is, a tough human being is a human being. my question, if i have one, i

want to know these seven marines, it could have been some soldiers, when you get the report that sgt x or private x has committed suicide, where does the report go? does it come all way up the chain? the point is, what i would love to know, just one tragedy, the history of that one soldier or marine, wanting to know if he or she had been there -- let's say it is because of frequent appointment. it could be any number of situations. but i would like to have a briefing from the army or marine corps or the navy, just taking one soldier or one marine and

give me a classified briefing of what was his life like. what signs do see or not see? -- what signs it did you see or not see? did they see any signs? truthfully, i don't think you can be doing any more than you are doing. that's my own personal feeling, but i would like to thank the chairlady and ranking members. we have had numerous meetings and i think you are doing the very best job you can do. the organization, the service such work with, i don't know if we can get a handle on because we have several classified reasons, and let you give us a soldier or five marines or five semen or hair men to tell us what that person's life was

like. why was a mess? i'm not sure that will help us give you a better direction, but i think would better help us understand. does that make any sense? we could be brief individually, if not as a committee. >> i think that makes complete sense. you need to know and the committee needs to know that in our organization, it is not a fancy term -- is called a death be brief. you go to visit the general -- it is called a isde-brief. you go to visit the general, it does not matter if it's an airplane accident, or a marine takes his life, or a single vehicle action that loses his life, that thing is dissected at

the lowest level, the lieutenant colonel command level. all of those people in that chain of command, right down to the squad leader, everyone comes into the general's office and he will sit down for about two and half hours to include pictures, family history, all of the things you mentioned. all of that is peeling back. that happens across the marine corps. parts of that come to me within eight days. if it comes up, i get to see it, see the pictures, i get the preliminary reports. for the very reason you are asking, i don't want to ever just be another statistic, i wanted to be a face, a name, he belongs to somebody. a mother, father, we would be happy to do that. >> i was in a video

teleconference this morning where there were 11 suicide cases briefed to me. this was between february and march of this year. every single suicide is briefed to me. we go through them in great detail. 11 cases in two hours and 15 minutes. we learn and that is what this is all about. it is learning and as a commander breves another commander in another part of the u.s., iraq, afghanistan, hawaii, or japan, they are on the video teleconference and can apply the lessons learned in each case to situations he might find himself in with a smaller situation he commands. we could very easily provide you with that impression. .

because it will leave you with more questions than answers. the approach that we take today, the questions that we ask, the emphasis and focus that we place a leadership beginning with the question of why you did dunno.

-- you did not know. those were not our words. those words were written in 1995. by a man right before he committed suicide. we are left with lingering questions and no answers for many years. we cannot put enough focus or emphasis on this. >> my time is about up. i do not really want to see the reports. i know that you are doing your job. i want to bring that point up to say that you are doing everything the you can possibly do in a situation that is unbelievable. these young men and women are being stressed beyond belief. i do not care how strong you are, there comes a time where the body says it cannot do much more. this country needs a face that this is not your problem, it was the problem of this

administration and the past administration. we are in a bad situation. >> thank you, mr. jones. we have been loose with the time today because it takes time to even express these programs and the concerns and how they are moving along, i appreciate you for taking a bit more time. mr. kaufman would like to be able to participate and ask questions. mr. murphy? >> thank you. thank you for your candor and theñi time. there is a psychological stress in these times. general, i appreciate your comments regarding the marker -- proactive and reactive chain of philosophy. also, your partnership in

pennsylvania. general, i appreciate your comments as well. in the army, this is the year of the noncommissioned officer. making sure that they break through those barriers and that leadership is very much welcome as well. we also talked about, as far as stress and employment, i know that when i was in iraq six years ago one of our troopers committed suicide in baghdad. that way is on my heart. the captain, when he came home he talked about the hardest part in being deployed, it was coming home and the stress there. i represent pennsylvania and i can tell you that we have had three young heroes in the past seven months alone that came home from iraq or afghanistan

and committed suicide. it has been really tough. in each of these cases we heard similar stories from their families. that the individual or a loved one was having problems but they did not know where to turn. my question, i think, earlier testimony over the 14 different programs, how are these services working with families before, during, and after the deployment of loveñi one's? so that they can spot the signs and know how to take action? if you could comment, i would much appreciate it. >> two years ago, the commandant got a hold of our family team,

who said that we should put this on a wartime footing. when it became apparent that we would be at this for some time, not that money is an indication of focus, but it does give you a sense of prioritization for the commandants. $400 million in ai08, about the same in 09, a bit more in 10. with all of those awareness programs, please -- redeployment efforts, health advisers, and all of the folks that poll a family together as a unit to prepare them for deployment, there is a host of things that a young marine goes through. talking about the family ready this, talking about getting this house prepared for deployment, what it is like, what do you

expect, what is it like when you are in the middlthat is a diffef dynamics. we have looked at all three of those periods of time. we have put in a lot of effort to include communication tools, staying plugged into volunteers, paying workers to help us stay plugged in. in there are all of the different ways that you can give your children held in school if they are struggling. we have worked very hard at that. it all begins six months before the deployment. >> the most successful program we have seen in recent years are the military family life counselors. they have been fantastic. they are being pushed down to battalion level. prior to that asset, the only

thing that you could find out on that level was the formation of anything between 508 hundred individuals. in today's world, after eight years of war, we need two chaplains, i would argueñi, alog with at the military family life council. substance abuse counselors, what i found in eight days was that we still have the same authj%u)jju for substance abuse counselors in 2009 that we had in 2001. there is no doubt in my mind that substance abuse has increased in the united states army. it is part and parcel. today we are hiring as quickly as we can to hire the additional counselors that we need. you all know the problem of

mental health counselors trying to get enough. we are looking for innovative ways. we think that being able to provide mental health counseling online, in one day, hopefully by november or december, that -- an individual will be able to do that at their home, related to families and soldiers in the privacy of their home. this is more than a way of getting around a national shortage, by being able to bring them together in an on-line capability. one that will serve with the department of defense. >> i think that my time is up. i would not like to be reprimanded by the chairwoman. >> thank you. dr. snyder? ñr>> we actually have some votes coming up. we can work for another member, may be a second. >> thank you, madam chair.

when you were talking about ncrd on the east coast and west coast, i began 42 years ago. i do not remember much in terms of the care and counseling of my drill instructors, but on the other hand i think ever remember everything i ever said. i would like to direct my questions to you, general, as you have a study going on in the national institute of mental health. more in the spirit of open questions, we are focused today on suicide rates that may or may not be the thing that we need to be measuring. i do not know what is under the water out there. i think of all of those soldiers that you have right now that are in misery. their families are in missouri. perhaps children that witnessed this are in misery. but because they do not take the

act of violence towards themselves, we may not know about it. is it every five families? 200 families? what do we measure? what do we look at? i think that your study points at what we look at. do we measure the suicide rates of spouses or children of military members? >> we collect as much of that data as we possibly can. it is the most difficult of the data together. when it takes place of a military installation especially. we do our best to collect as much of that information as we can. you are 100% right. suicide is the extreme indicator. by the time that i hit the third indicator, i realize that this was about the mental wellness of

soldiers and families. that is what this is about. our program needs to be directed at that mental well less, not the extreme. if we get at that, we will see incidents going out. >> talking about the factors of failed relationships, causation is part of what your looking for. what is causing this out there? i was surprised that the diagnosis of depression was not a factor. >> depression is an indicator, but what i found from spouses was that their spouse was coming off of deployment, going through that first 30 day period where everything was wonderful but getting into the training again, getting ready to go out in nine to 11 months, spouses were

telling me that their husbands were not reintegrating. that it was too hard to do in a short time, backing off, creating a relationship problem. it spirals out of control. >> we have all talked about the fact that we have talked about this for a few years now, they are doing a better job in american civilian culture, military culture, acknowledging that seeking mental health culture should not be stigmatized. what about couples that seek help for marital problems? is there a stigma to acknowledge that they are having problems as a couple? or is that recognized as okay to acknowledge your yeapeers? >> it is better accepted than

the stigma of seeking mental health help. ñiwe are trying to do everything possible to get rid of the stigma of. that is one of the reasons i am so excited to be able to deliver mental health counseling online. it has had tremendous success in australia. people were more willing to open up online. that gets to the geographically separated people. >> are there any duty assignments that a person cannot hold for a while if they are placed on antidepressant or in madison for depression or mental health and illness? >> there are. >> it can be a factor in how we deal with some of these? >> it can. i worry that we are over-

prescribing, however. we are having such a hard time determining the cause, in many instances by fear that state army doctors are throwing prescriptions at soldiers because they are overworked or do not know what to do and there is enough evidence based information. >> do you track allegations for confirmed episodes of child abuse in military families? >> we did. >> do you know the trend? >> last year, we were down. >> my time is up. madame chair, thank you. thank you all for your service. >> thank you. we are going to vote and come back. we hope that you all will be able to stay. i certainly hope that the members will all come back.

this is an important hearing, we want everyone's input. ok, thank you. >> thank you for your patience. it always takes longer than we think it will. >> i really appreciate your being here, all of you. thank you so much for your service and what you are doing on this particular issue. i might mention a couple of things at the outset before asking specific questions. the issue of stigma, i am glad that it was brought up. whether it is mental health in the civilian sector or military sector, i think that stigma as

may be the most important factor, doing all that we can to overcome the stigma. i have some personal connection to this. my mother, throughout my adult life, has struggled with mental illness. stigma was a huge issue. a number of folks focus on that particular issue, including her. having never served in the military, i can only imagine that that issue might be more significant in the culture of the military. correct me if i am wrong, as i said, i have never served. the issue of multiple deployments seems to be coming up over and over again. clearly that is just an important issue. we are trying to improve on that, as well as the services. i hope that we can continue to

do so. i would also like to focus more on the families and the children. adding to the general mentioned pre deployment. a lot of work is done on families after deployment, but this is an important issue. there was a national public radio storyñi recently about children of a guard. we have no big bases in iowa, but we do have national guard there. clearly, i think it is critical that we do everything that we can for the families of not just the active service folks, but also those who are components. i wonder if any of you could speak to the reserve components, especially, national guard folks and their families, these folks

who have had multiple deployments. everyone is trying to balance a lot of different things when they are deployed in when they come back. whoever wants to start. >> that is definitely a focus of ours. when you look at the united states army today, we have thousands of folks on active duty. hundreds of thousands. 400,000 in the reserve, cold numbers are greater but 200,000 of them are on active duty. when they come off of a 15 month deployment, within three or four days they are back in their community. they will not have the support base of fort hood or fort bragg. that is why we are so excited about being able to provide

mental health care online. we will be able to move into remote areas and provide for the reserve soldiers who are a part of the care. they can do that today with tri- care reserve plus. they will have access to the online mental health care counseling. you all know the tremendous impact that the employment program has made, giving them the opportunity to go through reintegration trainingñi at different times after they return home from employment. definitely a focus and concern of the army. >> i could speak to the multiple deployments. we do not have correlation data that shows more deployments equal more suicide, but

intuitively what we have learned in the course of these discussions is what multiple deployments often do under a voluntary conditions with members electing to go back, sometimes sooner than required. it puts off the family integration challenge. it allows this to take more time, to fester in some cases. this is personal opinion. and inside that comes with time, trying to dissect what the data is telling us. on the family and children issue, i have an example where the collaboration has provided insight across the navy. in the case of need to address in pendleton about trying to target families that have gone through multiple deployments, specifically the needs of

children, marines with navy medicine pilot programs have worked with local universities to develop a program called focus. a program for families who are under a kind of stress from continuing deployments. now we use that may be wide. it is another set of antenna inside our own population to understand what the stressors far. we know that it is more than before. we know that there are a number of factors that contribute. if you look at the service culture and isolation, it is not fair to the problem, nor is it accurate. folks that returned from deployment, we know that they are at risk, and we need to take

into account these factors of trying to help people assimilate into problem solving for their families. that is an issue. if you give me an opportunity to highlight, we could not be where we are without the help of the reserves. they have been a tremendous force multiplier in the patriotism that they bring to the mission. the challenge in this area it is not so much more that are affiliated, but those that are not. typically, the way that things work in a service culture, if our eyes are on it, we will work on at and look for ways to help.

>> we get to the children through the parents. that is how we touch children, both in active duty, where they are duty schools, and overseas. that one is actually the easiest. in almost all those schools they have added counselors because of appointments. teachers are seeing the results on the behavior at school. in the public-school, where the majority of children reside, we do not have reserves. they have been effectively employed over the last four or five years. every unit has deployed at least twice. we are resetting many of those units now.

80% of our reserves are in an entire quad units. battalions or support squad. what happens is we have almost all those programs mirrored for those in reserve. they have the benefit of all of the training, everything. the ones that are troublesome are the individuals, the irr that goes out in ones and twos. coming out of your state, my home state, and they deploy when they come back. that was what was meant by the yellow ribbon reunion program. which was fantastic. that focused on effort coming out of ucla.

through the parents, we can get to the children. there are programs out there. it is just the degree of difficulty being significantly higher. >> we look at it from a total force perspective. active-duty it rejected the an orderly available and there. -- active duty is certainly available. funded and we are engaged. we have a new positions with respect to the guard, there's a psychological director of being established and manned. there is also a regional team that is able to reach out and work with the folks and families.

we have also made sure, where there are not active duty programs provided, what can we do? if someone has a need or requirement for mental health care, we make sure that we get that to them. or we will bring them to a location. we have prevented our preventive health assessments, in order to give us a baseline. denn there is another reassessment 90 days after. that gives us another look at the end of the halls of that we can see if there are other indicators, so that we can be proactive. we might see something in these assessments allowing us to reach

out to the individuals or families for saying things. >> i would like to submit a question for the record. >> please. >> thank you. >> mr. klein? >> thank you, madam chairman. thank you for your service, the army and the marine corps have suicide rates in the thousands. the air force, 10 or 15 per 100,000. so, you say it we are doing a little better than the country as a whole. but you are not saying that. not satisfied with any suicide

rate, you are digging in. we should be grateful to your leadership. but i think it is important to recognize that this is an extraordinary -- this is not extraordinary in terms of the suicide rate. this is in keeping with what is going on in the nation as a whole. we think that part of the program, working very well, is bringing those soldiers back on regular scheduling. 30 days, six days, 90 days.

so they can get marriage counseling. there is actually a marriage retreat program in minnesota. quite a nice event. counseling and a chance to reunite, so forth. that has been a great program that i am glad is expanding. states are taking it up, it seems to be workload for the reserve component. the question is that when you look at the active component, or a long time we made the because you are back with the family, you have got medical facilities and resources and we do not have to worry about that periodic. i am wondering, particular to the army, are you looking at that as a set period? we are going to look at the active soldiers on purpose?

again at 16 and 90? specifically looking at how they are doing? are there signs of undue stress? >> if i am not mistaken, minnesota led the program. >> thank you, i did not plan that question. >> is true. it was always frustrating that we would bring home the activesi , bringing home mobilize soldiers. it never made any sense, but that was the right template to use to bring them back, i think compaq we do not deploy divisions any more, we'd avoid brigades. there are some -- we deployed brigades. one, we can only change commands with leaders in the 60 to 90 day

return from employment -- the point. when you do that, you break down in that leadership knowledge where new new. if you do not have an over where you tell the story, he can easily get lost. there is another desire with what you are ready to do, as opposed to what is getting done. we are working hard to make sure that we bring soldiers back, that leaders are passing off good books. i do not have the right number of mental health care providers. coming back in 30 days to a military treatment facility

where the practice is, someone in the unit doing those kinds of things. you are spot on. >> thank you, general. i very much appreciate the answer. i hope that they are looking at this issue. there is leadership turnover in personnel turnover. we need continuity, which we are likely to not have in the reserve and, i am afraid, may not be in the active component. >> thank you. thank you all for being here today to talk about this difficult issue. i was recently in iraq or afghanistan where a soldier was lost to suicide. this is not as simple as that by any means.

i have a question directed at what might happen after someone has decided to take their life and you learn of it. what is in place? how do you deal with it in the unit of the military? look to the example of a young high school student that is lost to violence and the way the schools come together to provide counseling in the understanding of moving people forward. is there any attempt to address the unit after something like this happens? can it become viable? can the issue of suicide travel within a unit once it takes place? i direct that to all of you. i do know who wants to begin. >> ma'am, if we lose a marine to

suicide, that family member is treated just as if that marine fell on the battlefield. in that great sense of dignity is precisely what happens. the entire unit turned their spotlight on the family to provide all the things that family members have happened to them after a loss. there is a zero stigma. not a matter of not taking care of you because you did something. it is precisely the same dignity that we would use for a fallen soldier. restating the connection between you and the family member, i want you to feel good about that. >> is there an effort to

identify that it may be different in the incidence of suicide? and that something different might be required to be supportive? >> i do know. i suspect that there may be cases. i would also opt that just about every time a door is not on at 2:00 in the morning, each situation is always different. each one of those, they each have at least 20% of the entire effort changing because family members are different. if they are different, in the end i would say it is because of the differences. from family to family. they would know how to do that.

we brought the entire leadership of the infantry battalion -- infantry unit italian -- but italian. the last thing we want to do is hide it. there is an obligation. we rank in the chaplains. from that point, if there are issues, we are sensitive to that. we will route them to get the help that they need. we pay close attention to that. i am always nervous when a unit has a suicide that it might then make someone else think that this is an option. i worry about that. i cannot tell you that i have

seen that, but i will tell you that i am concerned about that. >> so, there is no actual data? >> we have been tracking suicides since the early 1990's. what if we could see the data from all services? >> i do not have that right now. >> if possible. and what i have strong feelings about that. literature that i have read indicate that there is not a tendency for suicide to apply through an organizationñi sometimes out of frustration people want to go there. that is exactly the wrong place to go.

i agree with jim. in the requirements, we should talk about this and learn. as far as the stigma, i would like to say that we are as good as the marines, but i am sure that we are not. stigma still exist in the u.s. army. i know that for a fact. we are making great strides to change that. the stigma but only reside in the u.s. army, it reside in the civilian world. i would hope that someday the family and parents of suicide victims would be treated exactly the same. but i fear that it is not the same across the board in every single unit of the united states. >> i am going to move on. we have had a few people that

have not had an opportunity. mr. kennedy would like to be able to participate and ask questions. objections? let's move on. >> thank you, madam chairman. thank you to our witnesses today. general, a special witness hello to you. i hope that things are still a go in terms of marines going to glom and that the community there will get the entire and uncompromised support needed. thank you. >> i am very concerned about the mental well-being of the men and women in the national guard. the highest numbers for capita of any state in the union. there is significant stress, as

well as psychological service member stressed. there was an article in the pacific daily news that reported on the psychological stress of our national guard force. madam chairman, i would ask that these articles be entered into the record. in the article, one woman soldier stated that there were instances where one mother would hit her daughter because they were acting out. she would say "mom, we are not the enemy. you are at home now." she asked how she could just. my question to the general, what are the army and air force doing to ensure that appropriate mental care is taken once they

return from deployment. and in working to insurer stabilization, i believe that the home station demobilization helps in identifying these symptoms early. initially, after these are taken, what steps are taken afterwards? is there a program in place to monitor this kind of activity? is there a follow-up with individual soldiers beyond the 30, 60, or 90 day check out? either one. >> with all of our reserve component, specifically with the guard, we do the same thing with them as we do with all of our active duty programs.

they have access to them all. as you mentioned in the yellow ribbon program, we have that. we are in favor of it and see positive things coming out of it. we are looking to see that that program continues on as a viable. the other thing that we do our these surveys before individuals the ploy, giving us the base line. to go to your point about the follow-up afterwards, that is the reassessments. you will be able to take a look at redeployment, of post deployment, or another reassessment to see if there has been a change, allowing us to be proactive. that is an indicator. family members are all briefed as well.

we continue to reach out to the family members to make sure they are aware of the various programs. that is the hardest one, we are trying to make sure that we accomplished that now. we keep working it as hard as weekend. we are not perfect yet. we will stay at it. >> thank you. general? >> counseling happens as a soldier returns from deployment. as i have indicated to you, we are very excited at being able to provide mental health care of mine. that will be kicked off in a test program in three states that i know of, where soldiers will be able to go to the armory and go online and get that kind of care.

then the military one source also offers the opportunity for 10 deployments -- appointments. >> we are going to have another vote. we have three members that would like to ask questions. if we can get through them before we vote, we are delighted that some of you might be able to stay. these are the last votes, we will not be interrupted again. mr. porter? if you could all keep your questions very brief, that would be helpful. >> thank you for your honesty. your comments our wonderful. i wonder, do you know what percentage of your suicide

victims had alcohol problems? >> i could not give you the number of of the top of my head. lower than you might think. ñian issue that we're working hard on right now. we know that drug abuse and alcohol abuse has increased since the start of the war. i will get that number to you. >> i know that many will self medicate. what is the process for discovering these problems? after diagnosis, it is their intervention? what is the length of the treatment? do you work with the family as well? >> there are two major ways. we were very reactive before.

we have kicked off a pilot program at three installations, one where we are allowing soldiers to self-refer themselves. their command is not informed. you can set up special powers where appointments can be made and a soldier who self-refers can give the counseling that they need. >> if you recognize this, the

length of time in treatment is critical. many of the programs fail. then they do not have support around them after discharge. if you find someone in your recognize that they have to be hospitalized and treated, >> we do not have enough counselors, and we are focused on hiring as many as weekend. we are making a determination on whether it can be handled outpatient or inpatient. we have a number of facilities throughout the united states where we will send individuals do handle the substance abuse problems that they have. >> do they have to wait for referrals? because of your backlog? >> that is a problem that i have got. when you do not have enough

counselors and you get a series wih recidivism and a number of soldiers coming out hot on your analysis for drugs, the time that it was taking to get them referred took so long because of the higher incidence rate and not enough counselors. that is an issue we are attacking as hard as we could. it would not do anyone any good to self-refer for an out of problem and be told to come back in eight weeks. let's thank you. i yield back. >> mr. kaufman? >> thank you, madam chairman. first of all, i wanted to compliment you on something you were doing, two things that are very effective.

one, post-deployment prior to leaving the theater of operation, during the gulf war i found that those briefings were extremely helpful in integrating bacchant basic life. i think that the marine corps was covering everyone. i wanted to encourage everyone. that was extremely helpful. the second thing being done that i would like to stress that you continue doing is the decompression period for the guards in reserve. particularly when they come back from somewhere, that there is a

period of time that is extended prior to sending them back out. another important feature that you all do. in terms of a preventative to will, combat training is tough stuff. it requires people who are physically and mentally tough. you cannot shirk of that. what tools have you developed, what tools are you looking at, that when you are looking at that intake, looking at that potential recruit, people have varying threshold's to stress. there are people that by the nature of their makeup are going

to break a lot friendlier. are you going to be able to look at those potential recruits, developing tools and saying that this person might not make it? that these people might fall apart? i think that it is important to try to address this problem preemptively rather than dealing with it after the fact. >> that is why i am so excited by comprehensive fitness. on the front end, it will notñi simply be used on the front end, but throughout the career. from the army's standpoint, that is our idea. we are looking to get at the exact problems you are talking about. >> in terms of looking meeting

all the standards, we think that given the behavioral characteristics, it might be that you are not and for the united states army or ground combat? >> an excellent question. we can do the assessment. i have asked the same question. once we get it in place, there are legal issues that we will have to maneuver through to show that the assessment team has that degree of accuracy. >> from the naval perspective, assessment tools that we have rely on judgment. that is where we see this warrior ito's pass from one generation to the next.

the way that we have been able to tailor the pipeline, putting stress on folks to see how they react under stressful conditions, however artificially induced, is a preview of how they will react overtime. >> thank you. in the next session, we will have the recruit commander in this spot. he will be able to give you enormous boot camp stressed descriptions. we want to find out the young men and women that cannot handle it. it is not just macho wisdom. it is a function of what the marine corps unit is.

after 24 hours there is a moment of truth where the instructor says that those of you in the wrong spot, no harm, no foul. of course, we do that. that isçó how it happens in the early entry. we rely on those drill instructors. they are pretty doggone good. we have emersion training with the sights, sounds, smells, fear, and noise, building to a level of stress while they do training to the point where a guy in, that -- die in combat -- guy in combat, it emerges. we have a fitness program

shaping the kinds of things that you find in iraq. >> thank you. as they are stressed in a comprehensive training program, some of them are dismissed and trained in other areas. part of going into a theater, it is part of the realistic training environment. they are relying on the leaders to make that assessment. >> thank you. mr. kennedy? >> thank you for the honor of being able to participate in this panel. i would first like to thank all the members of the armed

services who are here for their service to the country. you are not in it for the money, that is for sure. you are in it for service to our country. on behalf of my constituents, i would like to thank you for your service. especiallyñi or where you will e serving or in a place where you might be called upon to put your life at risk. we would all like to say thank you for your service to the country and to your family as well, for the sacrifices they have made on behalf of the country. in that regard i wanted to ask the panel what they think of the opportunity for us to get treatment for our soldiers for

getting treatment for family members. family is the first line of defense in helping returning servicemen and women when coming back. benefits tend to go to the veteran. it might be good if we brought in the definition in terms of reimbursement. they are suffering from secondary disorder, away from their family member for so long, it is stressful. when the family member comes helm, would you not agree that if it were up to us, in order to get them ready to supportñi ther loved ones so that they could

react on may, be not think it will need to be helping to reimburse for the services that might be needed for those family members? but we start with you, general? >> military family life counselors have been improved upon hugely in the last few years to provide that kind of a service and care for families down through that battalion level. i am very proud of the fact that all of the programs that we have put so much into in the last year, it has all gone into the base budget. everything from child care to all of these services available. so, i really think that the

emphasis placed on this is well- placed, having a huge impact. >> if i could follow, i know that my colleague asked about how to screen soldiers to make sure that they are adequately ready for the combat of military life, i have introduced an oversight and relevant freemen support, in short, to oversee basically all of the substance abuse and treatment programs that are out there. .

it was believed by the commanders that it made them better at what they do to have a clean, clear, cad and help the state of mind when they were called in to duty. why is it the thinking with the

rest of the forces that are now being called into all kinds of dangerous situations to have a healthy state of mind? why don't we look at this as a weakness? why don't we think of this as a strengthening tool rather than a reactionary tool? we look at this as strengthening. they can better make decisions under combat, can be better soldiers. what would all of you like to say about that? >> we have mental health specialists with our units. it is viewed as an asset that helps us sustain a force. the capability is there no matter what happens, to help

servicemen, regardless of their rank or gender, or background. we see it as the imbedded concept and helps a sustaining force. >> with the marines in 2006 put the suicide prevention program in place, and then the funding for suicide prevention remains stagnant, in spite of the fact that suicide has gone up. did i not get the testimony correct? >> we have never had an issue with funding, both from the perspective that we can get it. the services are more than willing to get the money. funding is not an issue. i think this has been an evolutionary process.

prior to stepping across the border in 2003, we had a military that had not been to comment since the gulf war. we spent probably the first couple of years almost -- not in denial -- but not in combat stress. everybody thought this war would be over. we will be able to come back and read set. we are coming at this from my perspective pulp -- perspective, probably a little late. there have been huge efforts toward this. there is not enough mental health folks right now. we have 54 mental health folks -- 24 mental health folks in

afghanistan with our 600 marines. we want more and need to get them there. they are not there. >> thank you, mr. kennedy. what i would ask you to do, you have spoken about the need -- is it necessarily money? the people who would be available and in the service, or whether it is tricare or family care, help for the children, that the families are engaged with? thinking about what it would look like if we were covering these issues at a better level? how many personnel are we looking for and what areas might

they be, the full spectrum in terms of service members and their families. if we think in terms of where we need to be, maybe even three years for that matter. looking at the mental health work that is being done and the research, going through the stage set and understanding better -- that is in the future a little bit. you have great information. i think you are doing what needs to be done. maybe some of the concerns we have had haven't been met because it has been hard to figure out what we need. now, we have an opportunity to see that. and with the budget request that

we were at least able to understand the extent the critical need. we would like to see what that picture looks like. >> madam chair? there was an article yesterday i would like to segment about the crime rate on base of the fourth infantry division in fort carson being 114 times higher than the surrounding colorado springs community. at issue is, how will we deal with the servicemen and women dealing with their stress and getting caught up in the criminal justice system. will we make special allowances that much of this is due to their post traumatic stress. will we end up locking up all of our soldiers because of the crisis they are facing?

>> thank you all very much for being here. if you can stay for the second panel, we will be grateful for that. thank you very much. >> we are pleased to start with our second panel. we are delighted to have you here. general lynch , thank you.

>> thank you for this opportunity to tell you about what happens at fort hood. just having the opportunity to watch the engagement shows me how it -- engaged you are. 63,000 soldiers, one-third of the corps is currently deployed. one facet of the model -- i am responsible for the lives and well-being of these soldiers and families and retirees in the texas area. i take that responsibility very

personally. i don't spend a lot of time talking about suicide prevention, but i spend all my time talking about stress reduction. i would like to highlight some things and take whatever questions you would like. the first thing is we have declared for hood as family first. if you are assigned, you are home for dinner every night by 6:00 p.m.. if you are assigned, you leave thursdays at 3:00 p.m., which allows you more time with your family. if you are assigned here, you don't work on weekends without my personal approval. the only thing you cannot do is spend time with your family.

we have to mandate quality family time. a family member said to me, you say you brought your husband's home for what's called well time. but i never see my husband. you might as well just keep him. we are not seeing him anyway. this has had great effect on reducing stress in the family. it maintains a balance also. what i found is we lost the ability -- that ability. we rejuvenated family programs, because i want the youngsters and their families to enjoy life. the second thing we did is we took an entire city block and made it a campus.

we spend too much time addressing issues and not enough time keeping them from breaking them. we took a chapel and turned it into as spiritual business center. it is manned 24/7 by chaplains and counselors. they can go there to pause and reflect and to meditate. they can grow spiritually. it is not about religion, it is about a spiritual foundation. we do diagnosis of individuals of soldiers and their family, we take them to their wellness center.

in suicide, it is about strained relationships and financial issues. we put our military family life consultants, you have immediate access to counselors. this campus has found a life of their own. people come there because they want to avoid having a problem. we are off concerned about -- all concerned about mental health issues. i personally agreed every new arrival. i explained to them how important they are to their families, their organization.

then i tell them that i cried more in the last three years but i cried in my entire adult life. i am personally responsible for families, families who have paid the ultimate sacrifice. i am indeed affected, and i am getting help. so if they have problems, we can reduce the stigma out there. it is all about engaged leadership. i share a suicide prevention meeting every month. i think the engaged leadership that we have only had -- suicides. a group of leaders -- as a group

of leaders, we dissect each case and try to lead -- tried to understand the problem. we want him to be free to tell his leader or battle buddy, so we can help him. it is all about stress, and we continue to take the lead in helping. >> on behalf of all marines and sailors, i would like to thank you for having us here today to talk about what we are doing down in the carolinas. i was the commanding general at

parris island, i had recruiting duty and training duty. for the last year i was the deputy commander for the 18th airborne corps in iraq, and i cheered their suicide prevention committee. i also have personal knowledge of the generals command and leadership philosophy that was exhibited in iraq. there is nothing any better than what the general did in terms of leadership. his impact in iraq was felt on many soldiers across the theater. in reference to the combat units, we feel the death of every sailor and combat loss,

accidental fatality and suicide. a needless loss of life is a tragedy. we take every opportunity to tell our soldiers and marines how important they are. we have identified trans -- trends. we are trying to determine how collision is effected -- cohesion is effective. we seek to build a strong sense of commitment within our platoons and squads. we foster an extended family feeling.

it is important that we are there to intervene. the challenge for our leaders is valid with team building, mentor ship and the development of the war be so support their subordinates. -- war ethos. the approach ability of leaders that provide a safety net for the -- when the individual marine lacks the resiliency as extended period of stress.

we have acknowledged the effect , -- we had a five-year period we hope to do -- to increase our force, and we hope to see the benefit of the buffer. seven months deployed and 7 month home cycle. it is preparation for the next appointment, -- deployment. we want to identify these flashpoint issues that often lead to a negative outcome. we believe that a key issue in this suicide rest with leadership. we have put all our marbles in

ourng ngo basket. the youngest of all the force, how does a young corporal who succeeds in combat, how do we give him the skills to understand the issue? my boss come recently addressed captains with a great focus on the operational aspects of this, in order to enhance concerned leadership, to understand what the signs are here within operations both for the family as well as the marines? we will continue to create the environment where marines and sailors are cared for. our marines and sailors must

feel they are interco for the success of the expeditionary force. they sometimes forget that in the heat of the moment as they prepare for the next deployment. we want our young marines and sellers to have the confidence that they can reach out and embrace the leadership. -- we want the marines and sailors to have this confidence. the program i talked about is very hard-hitting. this video takes you through a marine from cam back -- combat that starts to experience the stress, financial issues, marital issues. they can see this as it occurs, even if it doesn't happen in

their own lives. one corporal attempt suicide and talks to his nine sons -- supervisors. it talks to how he got to that point from the relationships standpoint, and what she back from where it started and how he got there. the socratic method is used to talk about the video in terms of the vignette, we think this will enhance the skills at the nco level. they all witness list for the purpose of instruction.

we are implementing the operational control and readiness. we talked a little bit about that in the previous session. it provides mental health professionals, providing instruction to doctors and chaplains at the battalion level. we are pushing down the capability down into the company level. that training is going on now and will be implemented within the next 90 days. i will conclude by saying that we are not accepting this. there is still tremendous work to be done. we appreciate the efforts of this committee to look at this and help us.

we also appreciate the sharing of ideas, because no one has the answers. thank you for the opportunity to express my thoughts. >> thank you very much. how has your new program been received? do you find that there is work that is not getting done because of the schedule? our people utilizing this? people must be wondering what is going on. >> i've brought in the franklin covey institute on time management. if you have to be home for dinner by six, you have to be

better able to manage your time. some people -- some family members think me because we have given them back their husbands. we are as prepared for war now as we were when we found ourselves working longer. >> are you able to give a guy with that? evaluate that? >> we continue to work all our training regimens. that is what we are trying to accomplish. there has been no degradation in our capability. they are doing very well. i know that stress on the

families has been reduced, because when the husband or wife is at home, they are truly home. we are seeing incidents of violence and suicides go down. >> one of my colleagues mentioned that we are not just focusing on those who commit suicide, but people who are hurting and a whole host of ways. do you have a sense that-you mentioned things are looking better. what about acting? in trouble in town? there are a number of our military men and women are experiencing problems. this is a great concern as we look at the numbers.

our people not getting into trouble as much? >> yes, ma'am. i get briefed routinely on statistical trends. it has been significantly reduced over the last year. the soldiers as a result of reducing stress, are having some fun. it is all about reducing stress. they are less likely to hurt themselves or somebody else. >> you had mentioned working with the commanders and trying

to educate the families. have you had much push back? people say, they are not psychologist? what can i do? what can you tell us about that? >> because suicide is pervasive in a unit, everyone has experienced it. the leadership has to understand how big an issue this is. you asked a question earlier about frustration.

where the causative factors are? commanders are asking those questions and are looking for help. some of them might not be coordinated. you are right about that. there are no bad ideas. we have a new way of looking at this. especially when we emphasize at the nco level. i thing the commanders are absolutely on the board. >> what part of the culture makes this difficult? >> the part of the culture is

that we are all tough as. -- tough guys. they don't remember the soft side of things. we have embraced this idea of training. a drill in structure -- drill instructor, they have a back and forth on this. it is not just about the mental and physical and moral aspect of this. sometimes we dark to talk about these things in boot camp.

-- sometimes we start to talk about these things. who you have to focus on in the boot camp structure. this is where our commandants wants us to go. >> -- commandants. >> thank you for pointing out something that i believe, which is the service members, their families and veterans are extended family. i appreciate your past service, i spent 25 summers with the national guard. i know the capable people who

are there. my only son was trained there for his only deployment. also, thank you for your service of the cake -- as the commanding officer of paris island. all female marines are trained at parris island. i have been to the graduations, it just makes you feel so good to see how they have faith in themselves. it is even better to see the families. there is not a dry in the house.

-- bud dry eyea dry eye in the could you talk about the programs that are specifically focused on reducing stress on the marines that are contemplating suicide? what other resources are needed to address psychological stress? >> the two programs that probably have the most benefit, one is the nco program and the

other is this oscar program, a program we are developing with the navy, where we are adding mental health professionals at the higher levels of command, and providing mental health professionals at the regimental levels. we are now going to train lieutenant commanders and a normal medical doctors and chaplains in a couple of areas. one is the issue of resiliency. member for -- this is one of the keys, but a tough thing to find an measure in and individual service member. when resiliency is low, they are prone to suicide.

how do you measure what is in the tool bag, so to speak? how do we refresh that? but the oscar extender program will give us the capability down to the company level as a pierre type of capability with specialized training. the goal long term is to provide the health professional that will take time that we don't have. this is one that we can get our arms around. when we made this decision to go to do 202 k the common don did a couple of other things also. to put a family readiness

officer in each battalion. we asked our families, wives in particular to handle this. the kind of issues you deal with today are some -- so complex, this family readiness officer who works with reserve units as well as active duty units is a one-stop shop into the number of programs that are there. once there, they can sort out the programs for you, whether that is a family or individual program. it has been hugely successful, and they remain with the families while the soldier is

gone. this will pay dividends for us. >> thank you. >> talking about the family readiness counselors. i met with to volunteers, -- two volunteers. i know how critical they are. i was not aware of the role they played. i was not aware that there were

all volunteers, and they handle such complex issues. i wondered how they did that, and without recognition. i was going to ask that in order to deal with the shortage, if there are individuals that we could or would be training today that perhaps are doing very important jobs, could they be doing something more critical to the mission? had -- have you thought about bringing more of those individuals, perhaps titian hours at a physician assistance level, or how we might do that?

>> you asked before, what is the biggest source of frustration. that is the lack of behavior and health professionals. i am sure about 44 short of who i need. the nation is short of these behavioral counselors. will we are very excited about this i -- excited about this online counseling. you can have individual counseling. it would not rob from the community, but it would be an asset. we will be able to do that in the fall. >> the number one issue with

suicidal ideation is failed relationships. you cannot continue to go away and come back without straining their relationship. you have to focus on those family counselors. family life consultants are very important. they are now embedded in our units to allow our soldiers and family members to say that they need some help. we also take them off the installations, so if somebody wants to get help but doesn't want to do it on the installation, they can still get help. many hospitals reach out as well with their professional counselors. we are doing all we can do to make sure we get the right professionals. how do -- we talk to our leaders

about how you identified suicide ideation, among other things. >> are you finding that families have experienced -- experience, that they would be leaving within a year's time? what happens after a period of time? >> we treat our fallen heroes who fell due to suicide the same as those who fall on the battlefield. we offer help through this difficult time. we make sure they can stay on the installation as much -- as

long as six months. >> you are saying it is six months but it could be extended? >> yes, ma'am. it is all about compassionate leadership. we take it on a case by case basis. >> thank you. i appreciate that. in terms of waiting times to get help, are you aware of whether it takes a family several weeks to see somebody as opposed to a service member who may be seeking help? what do the wait times look like? >> we have five camp counselors at camp lejeune. to get an additional appointment for assessment is pretty quick,

based on how deep is the problem. we don't think four is enough. we think the number is about 10. the focus program that we talked about, with the help of ucla, it is a program we developed has been successful. what we don't know based on the stigma is how many people would not come to this. commanders will be more aware of what the issues are. they are embracing the counseling, and i think you will see more advocacy as we turn more attention to those pieces. we also have worked very closely with the navy to increase our

clinicians. they know enough to help our leaders to point them in the right direction for help. the issue that we see is continuity care. once a young marine a status -- establishes a relationship, when that psychologist or psychiatrist transfer to -- transfers to the theater, that change in commanders you lose visibility and continuity. continuity of care is as important as doctors that we have to address this issue. >> journal, you have identified

some programs that are unique to fort hood, and at reducing the stress on troops. can you tell us more about these programs? why did you feel it necessary to initiate at fort hood? there are already so many programs in place to help mental issues. >> week approached the problem from all aspects. we establish a combat warrior reset program which allows our soldiers who have ptsd to be seen over a three-week process by dedicated professionals. we use every approach that we can, acupuncture, massage therapy. everyone who goes in and comes

out the other and has benefited. we need to spend more time addressing the problem before it becomes a huge problem. not every soldier who deploys for combat comes back with ptsd. some of them found it to be an enriching experience. but we are trying to do, it is all about resiliency. i want families who are experiencing difficult times, and they all are -- can you imagine the difficulties with a

newly married family. we have marriage retreat and the strong bonds program. >> i want to thank both of you because the family support activities -- i spent many years in legal counseling. i have seen it advances through the family support organizations and the yellow ribbon campaigns. all of these are so helpful to families. so many of our young people, this will be a hallmark of their lives, to look back to them and let their families know about in the future. thing you both for -- thank you both for doing what you do.

>> i just wanted to ask about the families of the soldiers and airmen and marines, are we supplying an additional kind of support to them, over and above what you would hope to be providing for at fort hood? >> yes, ma'am. engaged leaders know the support mets and their families. we identified those families who could be high risk. that could beat because of wounds in combat or strained relationships. we want to lead these people to the right kind of resources. engaged leaders lead their subordinates to these programs.

>> thank you. we need to provide that support to them. thank you so much. we appreciate you being here. we look forward to having you back, and perhaps having some of the examples for follow up. thank you. >> transportation secretary hood

is the guest on newsmakers. they will talk about stimulus spending on transportation programs and related issues, today at 6:00 p.m. on c-span. >> author bruce chapbook on "i am murdered." >> gordon brown before the 30 members of the house of commons liaison committee, answering questions on the british economy and foreign affairs. at 9 on the c-span. treasury secretary to tim geithner and hillary clinton as well as two chinese government

representatives talk about the economic dialogue. this is about 50 minutes. >> good morning. i am so pleased to see all of you here. so many members of the cabinet. we are excited to begin the strategic and economic dialogue between the united states and china. it is a privilege to open this meeting. i am especially pleased that secretary geithner and i have been able to welcome the vice premier. [applause] we are looking afford to resuming the very fruitful discussions that we have already have, both secretary geithner and myself, and president obama.

this is a combination and a beginning. it is a combination of action taken by our predecessors 30 years ago. the united states and china established formal diplomatic relations. what followed was a blossoming, out of chinese growth and diplomatic engagement that has allowed our nations to reach this place of opportunity today. but this dialogue also marks the end of an unprecedented effort to lay the foundation for a positive, cooperative, and comprehensive u.s.-chinese relationship for the 21st century that so many members of president obama's cabinet is here, we believe that in the decades ahead, great countries

will be behind less by their power to dominate or divide them by their capacity to solve problems. it is this reality that no country can solve today's challenges alone, that demands a new global architecture for progress. all the past relationships have been influenced by the idea of a balance of power among great nations, the fresh thinking of the 21st century moves us from a multi polar world to a multi global world. we hope this dialogue will help to shape a common agenda. we know that our nation's fate -- face a global threat through climate change, clean energy, pandemic disease, poverty, north korea, pakistan, afghanistan and others. we must find common ground and

work together as a common purpose. as we will hear later from the president, the obama administration is committed to broader engagement. when i was in china in february, it was my first time back in almost a decade. i was struck by the transformation that had taken place. driving on the road to beijing, i feel like i was lost in a movie. from millions on bicycles to cars of every model. and for those traveling to shanghai and already a cosmopolitan city, soon to add

the shanghai expo. of the testaments to dynamism and growth. we welcome china's role to promote peace. the u.s. over the last 30 years has sought to foster security in the region. this has been an important strategic interest of our own. in the future we will remain actively engaged in the security of asia. when disagreements arise, we will work through them peacefully through dialogue. this economic and strategic dialogue differs from past dialogues in the approach. it is comprehensive by design, meant to enlist the full range of talents within our government and includes challenges which are neither beer clerk -- bureaucratically neat or come --

compartmentalize. we will increase understanding, setting priorities, and setting a work plan. our agenda will focus on several areas. first as secretary geithner well done -- will demonstrate the economic recovery that is critical to both of us. we have taken aggressive action, so has the chinese government. climate change and clean n.j. are the world -- climate change and clean energy. we already have promising partnerships. when i was in beijing, i toward a plant that was a true chinese collaboration with the u.s..

chinese businesses built the steam turbines that helped power the plant. it provides clean energy, including heat for the united states embassy. security challenges, i attended a conference in thailand where provocations were subject of great concern. china and the u.s. both appreciate the dangers of escalating tension and a prospective arms race in asia. we both will work against the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. already we have cooperated closely together, and we are grateful to the chinese government and their leadership in establishing the six-party talks. we will also discuss our common concerns about the nuclear weapons capability of iran, and explore ways to address violent

extremism and promote stabilization in afghanistan and pakistan. we know that many of the world's strass emanates from poverty, social erosion and political instability. by addressing hunger, illiteracy, disease, economic mark joyella station and insisting on this we can widen prosperity for more people in more places. even with our closer cooperation this will not be easy to solve and results will not happen over night. we will not always see eye to eye. that was the cases concerning human rights where the united states continues to be guided by the idea of religious and other freedoms must continue to be respected.

many of the global challenges today are within reach if we were together. where our interests intersex and where they cannot -- intersect and where they cannot we will be honest. when people are of one mind and heart, they can move mountains. we cannot expect it to be united on every issue. we can be of one mind and heart on the need to find this common ground as we build a common and better future. the obama administration has embraced this dialogue early because we want to see it rings true. it is an issue of great importance to me as secretary of state, and i look forward to the discussion today and tomorrow

and to the follow up or we will do together. it is my honor to introduce vice premier. >> secretary of state hillary clinton, secretary of the treasury timothy geithner, dear guests. the dialogue initiated by the heads of china and united states is an important move to the relationship in a new era. i am pleased to co-chair the first round of the talks. . .

reached. it promotes a comprehensive development of china-u.s. relations in the new era. since the launch of these mechanisms in february, the

chinese and u.s. teams headed by special representatives of the two presidents have made tremendous efforts to implement the agreement and ensure the smooth implementation of the dialogue as scheduled. i highly appreciate your efforts. as to countries with influence in the world, china and the united states showed their important responsibilities on a host of major issues concerning peace and development of mankind and enjoyed extensive, as -- enjoy extensive common interests. in the face of the complex and changing economic and political situation, our country should endeavor to expand common ground to reduce differences through

their sister -- -- through the strategic and economic dialogue. this serves the common interest of the two sides and helps but comprehensive relationship between our two countries. it is also of great importance to peace, stability, development, and the prosperity of the whole world. i would hope that the two sides will hold consultations and an equal and candid wetter -- manner, and develop the issues in our relationships. i hope that the two sides will be an updated and thinking, adopt a pragmatic and enterprising approach, and explore new areas, met its, and avenues of mutually beneficial corp's. i'm confident that with the

concerted efforts of both teams this mechanism will keep improving and growing and inject new dynamism and make new contribution to our mutually beneficial cooperation in these areas and our relationship. i wish the first round of strategic dialogue a crowning success. made a relationship between our two countries grow even stronger -- made the relationship -- may the relationship between our two countries grow even stronger. premier hu jintao. [applause] ladies and gentleman, in his congratulatory message,

president putin tout raised high expectations and requirements for the first round up the strategic and economic dialogue. in a while, president obama will join us and make an important speech. to jointly build the positive and comprehensive relationship with a 21st century is an important agreement reached by our two presidents. its core element is to strengthen cooperation and it should be oriented toward the 21st century. the current dialogues are a major reflection of this agreement. we are keenly aware of the great responsibilities on our shoulders, as required by our two presidents to make full use of that dialogue platform to build a consensus, expand convergence of interests, and work to achieve mutually

beneficial results. at present the world economy is at a critical moment of moving out of crisis and toward recovery. the chinese government't adopted serious measures that have paid off. in the first half of the year, china's gdp grew by 7.1% with increasingly visible signs of stabilization and rebounding. stank -- thanks to the policy measures adopted by the u.s. government, u.s. financial markets are also stabilizing and note world economy is showing chimed -- signs of the same. this is strengthening chinese and u.s. corporations, and china and the united states will have in tens of dialogues --

intensive dialogue to tackle the world financial crisis, building a strong financial system, and promoting sustainable economic development. this is a positive sign of joining hands did overcome difficulties -- to overcome difficulties and promote the economic recovery and growth and our two countries and the whole world. from the historical and philosophical perspective, mankind's pursuit of peace and development, prosperity and progress is never easy. mankind has always been progress ing amid difficulties. i am confident that this crisis will finally be over. china is in the process of accelerating industrialization. there are great potentials and our market -- in our market.

we will continue to carry out the scientific development, deepen reform, and opened up the efforts to combat the economic crisis. this will transform the economic growth pattern and endeavor to achieve development of our national economy. a more open and dynamic chinese economy will bring opportunities to all countries in the world, including the united states. with the furthering of china's reform and opening up, china and united states will have even closer economic cooperation and trade relations, and china-a u.s. relationship will continue to move forward as a new starting point. i wish this round of dialogue a

complete success. thank you. [applause] i now give the floor to the secretary of the treasury timothy gardner -- timothy e. wagner -- geithner. >> thank you, vice premier wang. in london, as she said, president obama and president hu jintao called on us to build a positive, comprehensive, and bilateral relationship. this dialogue is a testament to the importance of our relationship and commitment to strengthening it. i had the privilege of studying twice in china almost 30 years ago. if you look at what china has achieved since then, the leadership of that country has brought about one of the most remarkable transformations that

we've seen in modern economic history. no one could look at what china has done and not be convinced by the basic fact that when china commits to reform, it is able to deliver remarkable change. the strategic and economic dialogue breaks new ground by bringing together senior officials across the full range of economic, diplomatic, strategic, and policy interest in our countries. the breath of this dialogue recognizes that many of the issues of our time, from economic reform and growth to addressing climate change, require sustained political commitment an unprecedented cooperation between the united states and china. our joint response to the global financial crisis marks a turning point in our cooperation. this crisis will be remembered not just for its severity and its global reach, but also for

the speed and strength of the international response. and the actions taken and bike -- by the united states and by china had made a significant contribution to our collective success so far in blunting the force of this economic recession and beginning to restore confidence. in both of our country' -- but f our countries have made it clear to our commitment in support of economic recovery until reform is fully in place. at this point in crisis, we acted to get appear to use a chinese phrase -- a meeting place in a critical moment. we have both the opportunity and responsibility to act, not just for the benefit of our own citizens, but also book -- also for the a global economy. the crisis has highlighted the need going forward for a

different global growth pattern. we need to design a new framework, to lay the foundation for more sustainable and more balanced global growth in the future, and make a smooth transition to a more green economy. united states, we are moving to repair our financial system and put in place a more conservative, more effective rules of the game over the financial markets. already private savings are up and are extra a deficit has fallen and we are committed to taking the necessary steps to bring our deficit down to a more sustainable level once recovery is fully established. the president is commitment to making investments in clean energy, health care, and education that will make our economy more productive in the future. these policies will help assure more sustainable growth in the united states and a more sustainable and external position. china has laid out ambitious plans to shift toward domestic demand-led growth.

measures to raise household income and strengthen the safety net will be instrumental in this effort, as will be the remarkable reforms in the financial sector. china's success in shifting the economy toward domestic demand- led growth, including a greater -- a greater role for spending by consumers will bring about a more balanced and sustainable global recovery. these efforts are closely linked to our shared environmental efforts. a shift toward domestic demand- led growth, toward a more service-related economy, rather than the export-led growth of the past will be critical toward a more energy-efficient path. china and the united states had been among the biggest beneficiaries of the global trading system and we share a

special responsibility to ensure it that it will remain open and rules-based. we have committed along with the nations of the g-20 to spurn protectionist measures and expand trade between our two countries. we meet in a moment of opportunity and reshaping the global economic and financial architecture. the global economy has changed fundamentally, but the institutions that were created at that time help bring about remarkable and improved in comes across economies, and it helped bring hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. china was not central to those programs but today we're working with china to ensure their full engagement and representation in the design of the key multilateral creeping -- agreements and groupings such as

the g-20, the financial stability board, and other international institutions. these are huge and hugely important task. they will not be accomplished in a single meeting of this dialogue but we can begin that task and we will build on it over the course of the months and years ahead. i want to introduce councilor dai. [applause] >> secretary clinton, secretary dgeithner, ladies and gentlemen, just now three special representatives made broad and important speeches.

i think they said -- they said what needs to be said and what am i going to say? i wish to make a few remarks. president hu jintao and president obama made the decision together to establish a china-u.s. strategic and economic dialogue at the g-20 in the london summit. those dialogues open today. i think this is a big event t ad celebrations in the china-u.s. relationship. probably at this moment the attention of the world is now on this call. -- this hall. president hu jintao just now

sent a congratulatory message full of expectations and good wishes. later on president obama will honor the opening ceremony and make an important speech. this shows that the dialogue of important and special value. vice premier wang and i, as you know, come from an oriental country which is both far and near to you. it is an old civilization. we come from one of the four ancient civilizations that produce confucius and many other great men. we come from a country that produced four great inventions

of the world and a country whose 1.3 billion people is committed to building on harmonious society and existence and common prosperity of the rest of the world. we come from a country where the human rights undertakings have achieved tremendous progress in a few decades. why are we here? i think we came here in the spirit of mutual respect, treating each other as equals, tat can get -- to have candid dialogue with the united states to discuss board looking issues that are essential to the people's subsistence, peace, and development. first we came here to discuss with our american colleagues ways to build positive and comprehensive relationships and

that 20 per situation -- and the 21st book -- century. so that we can make our common interest bigger and more beautiful set up planet will live together. and china and united states both -- build a solid s -- edifice in the 21st century? i have done some research, and thinking with my mind, changes that have taken place in this world. i wish to look at the future of chinese relationships with optimism. first of all, nine years into the 21st century, we are now on

a completely different world compared with the 20th century. today china, the united states, and other countries are all living in a smaller global village and we face more and bigger global challenges that we cannot handoff -- handle single handedly. we are actually in the same pibig boat that has been hit by huge waves. what we can do is continue that trend of our times, a trend across the storm water together, and help the passengers of then b boat to lie

together harmoniously. we have differences in many areas, because the united states whenever become china and china will never become the united states, but our interactions have never been so frequent. our interests have never been interwoven so closely, and the mitchell beneficiate -- initial benefits between our countries have never been so strong. the relationship has never been so strong. our two great countries, too great peoples, and sees historic opportunities to improve our strategic mutual trust and to expand comprehensive cooperation, a properly and delicate issues, and build an even more future -- and even more beautiful future for

chinese-united states relationships. i think you have a similar saying in this country. i have worked with the two debbie ter -- deputy secretary of states and i am happy that i can work together with vice premier wang, secretary clinton, and secretary geithner, but the benefit of u.s.-chinese relationships. we are honored that we can work together with secretary clinton to co-chair that china-u.s. strategic dialogue within this framework. we must live up to expectations and felt our mission to make this a good beginning of the dialogues. ladies and gentleman, dear friends, i think we're not

taking part in building the history of two countries with different social systems, ideologies, histories, on that global stage working together to tackle challenges of the 21st century. we're not taking part in building a history of a new type of relations between the countries, between mutual respect, harmonious cooperation, and a globalized 21st century. can we manage to do that? my answer is we must work hard to make it happen. and yes, we can. that is borrowed from president obama. [in english] yes, we can. [applause]

>> ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states. [applause]

>> thank you. >> thank you. thank you. good morning. it is a great honor to welcome you to the first meeting of the strategic and economic dialogue between the united states and china. this is an essential step in advancing a positive and constructive and comprehensive relationship between our countries. i am pleased that president hu shares my commitment to sustained by a lot to enhance our shared interests. president hu and i both felt that it was important to get our relationship off to a good start. of course as a new president and also was a basketball fan, i have learned from the words of the man who said no matter

whether you are new or an old team member, you need time to adjust to one another. well, to the constructive meetings we have already had been for this dialogue, i am confident that we will meet his standard. i want to abolish the remarkable american and chinese leaders who will co-chair the secretary hillary clinton antonym geithner art two of my closest advisers and they have both taken -- had extraordinary experiences working with china. i know that they will have experienced -- experienced and capable of chinese counterparts in bingguo dai and vice premier wang. another is here today.

john has deep experience leaving -- living and working in asia. he speaks fluent mandarin chinese and also happens to be a republic and the cochaired senator mccain's campaign. that demonstrates john's commitment to serving his country and the broad bipartisan support for positive relationships between the united states and china. thank you, john, for your willingness to serve. today we meet in a building that's speaks to the history of the last century. this is a national moral to the president woodrow wilson, a man who held office when the 20th century was still john and america's leadership in the world was emerging. it is named for ronald reagan, a man who came of age during two world wars and his presidency helped usher in a new era of history. it holds a piece of the berlin wall, but decades-long symbol of the vision that was finally toward down, unleashing a rise

in -- are rising tide of globalization continues to shape our world. 100 years ago in the early days of the 20th-century, it was clear that there were momentous choice is to be made, choices about the borders of nations and the right of human beings. but in woodrow wilson's day, no one could have sat foreseen the part of history that would have led to a wall coming down in berlin nor could they have characterized the conflict that way between. people everywhere, from boston and beijing, the 20th century was a time of great progress that came with a great price. today we look at on the horizons of the new century, and as we launched this dialogue it is important to and reflect on the questions that will shape the 21st century. will growth be stalled by events

like our current financial crisis or will we cooperate to create balanced and sustainable growth, lifting more people out of poverty, and creating a broader prosperity around the world? will the need for energy breed competition and climate change, or will we produce partnerships to produce clean power and protect? well nuclear weapons spread unchecked, or will we forge a consensus to use nuclear power for peaceful purposes? well extremists be able to stir conflict and division or will we unite on the behalf of our shared security? when nations and peoples define themselves solely on their differences, or can we find the ability to find common ground? we cannot predict with certainty what the future will bring but we can be certain about the issues that will define our times, and we also know this.

the relationship between the united states and china will shape the 21st century, which makes it as important as any bilateral relationship in the world. that really must underpin our partnership. that is the responsibility that together we bear. as we look to the future, we can learn from our past. history shows is that both our nations benefit from engagement that is grounded in mutual interests and mutual respect. during my time in office we will mark the 40th anniversary of president nixon's trip to china. at that time the world was much different than it is today. america have fought three wars in east asia in just 30 years. the cold war was in a stalemate. china's economy was cut off from the world and a huge percentage of the chinese people live in extreme poverty. back that far dialogue was guided by a narrow focus on our

shared a rivalry with the soviet union. today we have a comprehensive relationship that reflects the deepening ties among our people. our country is at now shared relations for longer than we were estranged. are people in iraq and so many ways and i believe that we are poised to make sustained progress and some of the most important issues of our times. my confidence is rooted in the fact that the united states and china share mutual interests. we advance those interested in cooperation. our people will benefit and the world will be better off because our ability to partner with each other is a prerequisite to progress on many of the most pressing global challenges. let me name some of those challenges. first, we can cooperate to advance our mutual interests in a lasting economic agreement. the current crisis has made it clear that the choices made

within our borders reverberate across the global economy. this is true not just in new york and seattle but in shanghai as well. that is why we must remain committed to strong bilateral and multilateral coordination. that is the example we have set by acting aggressively to restore growth and prevent a deeper recession, to save jobs for our people. going forward, we can deepen his cooperation and promote financial stability for greater transparency and regulatory reform. we can research -- pursue trade that is fair and seek a balanced bellhop round agreement. -- doha round agreement. as american save more, and chinese are able to spend more, we can put growth and a more sustainable foundation. just as china has benefit from

-- benefited from substantial exports, china can also be an enormous market for americans. second, we can cooperate to advance our interests in a clean and secure and prosperous energy future. the united states and china are the two largest consumers of energy in the world. we are also the two largest emitters of greenhouse gases in the world. but the franc. neither of us profits from a growing dependence on foreign oil, nor can we spare our people from the ravages of climate change unless we cooperate. common sense calls upon us to act in concert. both of our countries are taking steps to transform our energy economies. together we can chart a low carbon recovery and expand joint efforts in research and development, promote the clean and efficient use of energy, and

work together to forge a global response to the climate change conference in copenhagen and beyond. the best way to foster the innovation that could increase our security and prosperity is to keep our markets open to new ideas, new exchanges, and new sources of energy. third, we can cooperate to advance our mutual interest in stopping the spread of nuclear weapons. make no mistake -- the more nations acquire these weapons, the more likely it is that they will be used. neither american nor china has an interest in a terrorist acquiring a bomb or a nuclear arms race breaking out in east asia. that is why we must continue our collaboration to achieve the denuclearization of the korean peninsula and make it clear to north korea that the path to security and respect can be traveled if they meet their obligations. that is why we must also be united in preventing iraq from

-- are run from acquiring nuclear weapons and encouraged the islamic republic to living up to its responsibilities. this is an -- this is not about singling out one nation. we must secure all vulnerable nuclear materials around the world, which will be a focus of our joint nuclear summit next year. we must read in bed nuclear non- proliferation treaty by renewing this basic bargain -- countries with nuclear weapons will move toward disarmament, countries without nuclear weapons will not acquire them, and all countries can access peaceful nuclear energy. the balance of terror cannot hold. a strong global regime is the only basis of security for the terrorist use of weapon. the most pressing dangers that

we face no longer come from competition among great powers but from extremists who would murder innocence, traffickers and pirates to pursue their own pirate -- profits at the expense of others. from disease that knows no borders, and from the suffering that can breed instability and terror. these are the threats of the 21st century. the pursuit of power among nations must no longer be seen as a zero sum game. progress including security must be shared. the increase ties between our military is what the spanish -- will this man -- will the minister calls. we can disrupt terrorist plots and dismantle terrorist network separate fruit early-morning and coordination and check the spread of disease. -- and dismantle terrorist networks. we can coordinate and check the

spread of disease. we can have a renewed push to end the suffering in darfur. all of these issues are britain and the fact that no one nation can meet the challenges of the 21st century on its on nor effectively advance its interest. it is this fundamental truth that compels us to cooperate. i have no illusions that the united states and china will agree on every issue, nor choose to see the world in the same way. this is already noted by our previous speakers. but that only makes dialogue more important so that we cannot which had a better and communicate our concerns with candor. for instance, the united states respects the progress that china has made by lifting of hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. just as we respect their ancient and remarkable coulter,

it's remarkable achievements, we also strong nly believe that religion and culture of all people should be protected in all people should be free to speak their mind. that includes at that minorities in china just as it includes ethnic minorities within the united states. supports for -- support for human rights and human dignity is ingrained in america. we are made up of people from every part of the war. we protect our union by extending basic rights to all of our people. those rights include the speed -- the freedom to speak your mind, to worship your god and these are things that we do not seek to impose. this is who we are. it hides our openness to one another into the world. -- it guides our openness to one another and the world. it helped to change the world

and it helped to shape america. we know that the talents of the chinese people because they have helped to create this great country. my on cabinet contains to chinese-americans and we know that despite our differences, america is in wrenched for deeper ties with the country of 1.3 billion people that is at once ancient and dynamic. ties that can be forced to increase exchanges among our people and constructive bilateral relationships between our government, that is how we will narrow our divisions. let's be honest. we know that some are wary of the future. some in china think that america will try to contain china's ambitions. some in america think that there is something to fear in a rise in china. i take a different view. i believe that president hu takes a different view as well. i believe in a future where china is a strong, prosperous, and successful member of the

community of nations. a future when our nations are partners out of necessity and also a lot of opportunity. this feature is not fixed but it is a destination that can be reached if we pursue a sustained dialogue like the one we will commence today. if we act on what we hear and what we know. thousands of years ago, the great philosopher said a trail through the mountains is used -- a trail to the mountains, it used, becomes a path in short time. our task is to forge a path for the future that we seek for our future, and prevent mistrust or the inevitable crisis of the moment to block that path with grass. this dialogue will help determine the ultimate destination of that journey.

it represents a commitment to shape the next century to sustain competition -- cooperation and not competition. i have to come to know better your people, your leaders, and your majestic country. i am confident that we can moves steadily in the direction of progress and meet our responsibilities to our people in the future that we will all share. thank you very much. [applause] ["hail to the chief" plays] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009]

>> starting tuesday, the full senate debates the nomination of judge sonia sotomayor to the supreme court. coming this fall, "the supreme court perhaps >> how is c-span funded? >> i have no clue. >> may be some government grants. >> donations. >> advertising for products. >> by taxes? >> how is c-span funded? america's cable companies greeted c-span as a public service -- a private business

initiative, no government mandate, no government money. >> and now a house oversight committee on a small business administration. topics include the use of funds from the $787 billion stimulus package. we begin this hearing with statements from committee members. this last about an hour and 10 minutes. >> the small business administration is tasked with a special on enter -- responsibility. in order to complete this task, the sba employs a number of important programs, the disaster program, and others to name a few. it is the responsibility of the committee on small business to ensure that the ba works

efficiently and effectively, and when becomes apparently they cannot comment it is the purpose of this committee throughout a value like the programs that exist and get back on track. in the wake of hurricane katrina, it became apparent that the small business administration was not equipped to carry out the responsibilities of the disaster loan program. loan requirements were put in place to strengthen the program and make sure that it was as helpful to victims as possible in the event of an emergency. another program was designed to bring businesses to area that had been traditionally underserved to help identify those who are eligible to participate in the program. this hearing provides an opportunity to examine these problems and others in which the small business administration may be struggling and ascertain the success that they have had

in implementing new requirements. the small businesses of america play a crucial role in maintaining a healthy economy. the manner in which the small business administration conduct itself has a direct role on the american economy. this is a very important time in the testimony today will have a direct impact on the help of american small businesses. i went thank you for being here. >> thank you. it is my pleasure to welcome miss niels. she was the 23rd administrator of the small business administration. prior to being confirmed, she served as the president of a group in maine. it helps small business honors secure small business financing, training, and welcome.

>> thank you very much. members of the committee, it is a great honor to testify before you as my first time as the sba administrator. given the host -- the obama administration's mandate to eliminate and prevent waste, fraud, and abuse in government programs, i am pleased to testify at the first of these regularly scheduled hearings on this topic. i consider this to be one of my most important responsibilities. as you know, and as you mentioned, small businesses account for 60% to 80% of the new jobs that are created. over half of americans to work on our work for a small business. small businesses are going to continue to be the foundation and innovation and

competitiveness, and the creation of our 21st century jobs. we know that these are difficult times for small businesses. making the s.p.a.'s mission more important than ever. we maintain a portfolio at the sba that supports nearly $90 billion, mostly in want guarantees. we are charged in making sure that 23% of federal contracts are given to small businesses. we have a strong network of over 14,000 affiliated counselors that help small business owners -- grow their businesses, and we currently have on call more than 2000 employees who stand ready to help in case of a disaster. we are committed to integrity, accountability, and effectiveness in all of these programs. these principles are at the core of what we do as an agency and at the core of who we are.

the recovery act which was passed with all of your help is a great example of this commitment. since the act passed, the sba has supported nearly $70 billion in loan approvals. most importantly, more than 750 lenders who had not made alone since october, when the lending markets rose, are back in the program making loans. some of them had not made alone since 2007. we have a chart in the green of where we are in the recovery at program, but light green is in the planning phase, and that are green is in the market. -- in the dark green is in the market. i would be happy to take questions on that. one of the first actions such as administrator is in implementing these recovery programs, to make

sure there was a senior level of risk-management to oversee this. we let -- we worked closely with the inspector general for risk mitigation to build them. i as want to mention the one loan program, america's recovery act of how this risk- management work. this is a new program for a specific purpose in a unique time. it is a bridge over troubled water for viable but struggling small businesses. this is not in our traditional risk profile. we were charged with creating a program that was 100% guaranteed by the sba with 0% interest costs for the borrowers. we knew that we would have a considerably higher default rate. we also knew that we would have to do extensive lender education. i'm happy to say that we trained about 1300 institutions in the week following the rollout.

as a result, we have 47 states these loans have been made and $26 million in hands of small business owners. the level of discipline that we are putting forth in the recovery act is not a model that we are transferring to the core programs -- is now the model that we are transferring to the core programs. optimizing areas like disaster assistance, where we have on call always, we have added space is a case of a catastrophic disaster, and we're doing marketing and out reachreach to let small business owners know what they need to do when a disaster. overall, there are a number of issues that still need to be addressed. many of these problems are built over another -- a number of years and will not be solved in

days or weeks. but they will indeed be solved. i look forward to working with the distinguished members of the committee to make that happen and i look for to your question. thank you. >> thank you, ms. mills. our next witness is from the accountability of us. but a natural market team includes and effectiveness of regulatory oversight in the amount -- housing and financial markets. he also oversees the development of community programs. mr. shields, welcome. >> thank you. it is a pleasure to be here today to discuss our work the small business administration. my statement reports that

additional steps should be taken to address reforms to the disaster loan program and the application process for future disasters. this report is being released at today's hearing. in that this is a general oversight staring -- hearing, i look forward to contributing to information on other programs. after the 2005 gulf coast hurricanes, many deficiencies were exposed in the disaster loan program speaking to the need for reform. and february, the sba did not engage in or complete disaster comprehensive plans before the gulf coast hurricanes. since then, the sba has taken steps to inform -- reform its disaster loan program which increases the capacity of this disaster credit management system. in june 2008, congress enacted

the small business disaster response and loan improvement act to expand steps taken by the sba that required new measures to ensure that the sba is prepared for future catastrophic disaster. in my statement today, i will summarize the extent to which we have addressed the requirements of the act and how we respond following the major disasters of 2008, allowing for key components of its june 2007 disaster recovery plan. first with respect to addressing the requirements, as of june 2009 s.p.a. met 13 of 26 requirements of the act, partially addressed eight, and did not take action on five which are not applicable at this time. sba officials told the gao that the agency has not completely addressed some provisions that require new regulations because to do so, the agency must make extensive changes to current

programs, implement new programs. for new requirements that in all private lenders, we plan to implement what is before final regulations. nor has it insure that the disaster loan program information is readily available to her original entity such as the small business development centers. by doing so, sba could leverage the capacity of local resources and emergency management groups and it could better ensure that it and they will be better prepare for future disasters. as of june 2009, fbi has not met deadlines for report to congress on an updated disaster response plan. failure to do so can lead to a lack of transparency on the agency's responsibilities to reform the program and it could

keep it from adequately responding to disasters. as it does not have an implementation plan for meeting the final requirements. the initial response after the 2008 funds and hurricane ike aligned with a certain parts of the programs, such as using technology for our reach. the individuals gao interviewed in the customer satisfaction survey provided some positive feedback about the sba performance, but there were areas for improvement. in particular, both indicated that application paperwork was burdensome and that the application process needed improvement. sba officials told the gao that

they are taking steps to improve the application process but they did not provide documentation. as a result, it did not appear that s.p.ba has a formal process for identifying problems and to make needed improvements. in our report we make five recommendations that we think will facilitate the progress in meeting the requirements of the disaster loan program improvements. madame chairwoman, it is a privilege to testify before this committee. i would be pleased to answer any questions on this work and other recent work we have conducted at sba. >> thank you, mr. shears. the gao has recommended that s.p.a. conduct unannounced site visits.

the gao conducted an investigation and it was not -- it was a great message from the government to taxpayers and two agencies regarding responsibility of making sure that taxpayers safeguards are in place to make sure that people are playing by the rules. are you doing unannounced site visits, and how many has your agency conducted since the gao made this recommendation in march? >> yes, madam chair, we are making unannounced site visits. in a time up until the last hearing in march and when this report was released, there had been only seven visits in six months. since that time we have done over 600 in the last four months. we're using that data from the

sites visits to build a risk- based mechanism in order to see what documentations indicates noncompliance. we will continue to make site visits and continue to work on this mechanism. in addition, i believe you are referring to the march 2009 gao report which was very helpful. i just wanted to report back on what has been done. there were 19 firms cited. two is had already been certified when we got the report and one was actually ok. of the remaining 16 -- >> administrator, i want to deal with that specific issue later. i want to follow my train of thought here. mr. shears, you noted that the sba fail to meet some deadlines, some by several months. what was the explanation for

missing deadlines and how has this affected the agency's preparedness for large-scale disasters? >> the reasons for not meeting deadlines falls into a few different categories. the first one that i will mention is coordination with fema. we have regulations that need to be coordinated between the agencies and we were told that was an extensive, cumbersome process, and that was the reason for that. another category -- one area where we just disagree with sba. we think the fact is clear in calling for regional clients and have plans that are specific to the types of disasters that cannot corp. in specific parts of the country. -- that can occur in specific parts of the country. and there is some disagreement

of poor weather what is already there at the national level meets the requirements of that act. that is one where we just have a fundamental disagreement, it seems. some of the others, such as having a program that involves private lenders -- those programs s.p.a. wants to conduct pilots before rolling out a national program, to get the experience of the program. .

>> we think that will help facilitate a certain discipline in terms of getting where it should be. >> one of the most surprising findings of the report is the fact that nearly four years since hurricane katrina, the agency is still struggling to develop a disaster response plan. as we enter the peak of the hurricane season next month, will the sba continued to depend on a disaster plan that contains obsolete permission? >> i presume that you were talking about our annual disaster plans. we present monthly plans to congress.

we will complete this annual plan. we agreed that it is overdue and we will complete it. >> do you have a timeline? my next question is, will that the disaster plan have the components mandated by the law? >> yes it will. many of these components are in place and we just need to get you the plan. >> when can we expect it. hurricane season is -- >> i will give back to you with an exact date. i promise we will look to do it as soon as possible because we have -- i want to thank mr. sherr because he has a very helpful template for us to go through. i think we are poised to bring you this report. >> but you understand the urgency of having this plan in

place before the hurricane season is over us? >> yes, we do. we also have the capacity in place, and we just need the report which we owe you and we will get to you. >> this committee has asked the sba on a number of occasions if it has the resources and controls necessary to prevent fraud. in the past, the agency has said they have the resources necessary to prevent fraud in the program, only to have the gao to find otherwise. do you have sufficient resources and internal controls to prevent fraud in the program? >> thank you, madame chair. the program is for small businesses.

it is not for big businesses masquerading as small businesses. this has been a concern about this program. we have done a number of things to begin to make sure that we eliminate fraud and abuse and address the issues that have been raised. we must first have a strong certification program and a formal certification that specializes in this. we will specifically invest in this activity. of the first is leveraging technology. we have added to our business development management information system in order to better track these companies through this nine year cycle. we invest in them for business

development. >> administrator, since we have -- i have all lot of other questions. you're telling our committee that you have the resources and the controls in place necessary to prevent fraud? >> we are making investments now and those things. we have put in the 2010 budgets some additional resources that would be very helpful. we are working on a package of regulatory changes that will soon be brought public. >> the same with the disabled veteran program? >> yes. the program is extremely important. as you know, we need to work in conjunction with the veterans of administration.

it will help us work on the database. it is the database that is critical. >> given everything that you have reviewed this, are you comfortable that you can meet the challenges of a disaster on the scale of hurricane katrina. the answer to whether we feel comfortable is no. these are some of the

requirements that have not been met. let me just go back to the disaster. at the time, the administrator proposed to us at a conceptual approach and part of our view, in the act itself, strategic planning should be a living document. so, for example, there have been disasters simulations that have occurred, yet we do not know that that is the best band that you do to simulate disasters the size of katrina. but now, in terms of the

disaster simulations, we know that they are a catastrophic disasters, but what we do not know is what were the results of those simulations in terms of the capacity of the agency to deal with a disaster the size of another hurricane katrina. what lessons have been learned? in the absence of some evidence that the agency is in a position of responding causes us to answer that question the way we do. >> i hope that you understand that we are here fulfilling our role in our duty of overseeing

and making sure that things that need to be in place are in place. hurricane katrina was a disaster of major proportions. people lost their lives and their businesses. for years after that, we need to have a place where we can be comfortable. i am very much listening to this issue that you raised about the plan. i would like to just mention that we have added 800 -- and we had 880 trained staff and now we have 2400 staff ready to go

anyplace there is a disaster. we also used to have 366 workstations and one of the things that we took from this review that you did is that we now have 2100. from 36623100 workstations. -- from 366 workstations to 3100 workstations. in terms of fixed end -- fixed infrastructure, we're in a different place. we reengineered our loan processing system. in the middle of katrina, it took us 85 days to pass a loan. now, we can do 14 days for homes and 18 days for business. we are piloting some additional programs. >> do you have any comments?

>> we egg knowledge in our report that a lot of progress has been made. the types of problems in this program have been addressed. there -- with knowledge these improvements. the program has improved. the response to the 2000 a disasters which were much smaller than anything on the scale of katrina is somewhat positive. we are pointing out that if we feel comfortable yet, there are still other pieces that are related to other provisions in the act. particularly, lessons learned having gone through exercises that we can go very important to

demonstrate the type of prepared this that we're looking for. >> the office of chief counsel for advocacy as required by statute to monitor compliance, given the amount of increase in legislation that may come from a health care reform and the reduction in greenhouse gases, that responsibility will get even greater. do you expect that chief counsel is not want to continue to monitor agency compliance to the same extent that it did under president clinton's administration and president bush's administration? >> yes. this issue of excess regulation causing cost to small business is a critical mandate, not only for the office of advocacy, but for all of sba, including the

budget office. this is a concern for small business. it will be a priority. >> in comparison to other federal agencies, how quickly do think the sba adopt gao regulations? >> that is a difficult question. i am trying to come up with a tactful answer. it has been an agency that has been relatively slow to implement recommendations. i think that the recommendations in a disaster loan program, we say that there is a way to go but expanding the disaster management program was a priority and i think that

those were implemented over a course of a number of years. there are still remaining recommendations. they just leader for long periods of time. >> the wish to comment on that? >> we are going to have to change that. we are going to have to get into the top end of the performers on that list. we are very committed to working in partnership with the gao. if we're going to create a culture where there is a real responsiveness on these reports, we find it very helpful. these are very strong road maps and we can improve these on an ongoing basis. we want to be able to change that answer and be at the top

end of the responders. >> miss clark? >> thank you madame chair. thank you for holding this hearing. thanks to you, administrator mills and mr. sherr for your attendance and your testimony. i look forward to working closely with all of you to insure that waste, fraud, mismanagement and abuse are reduced and ultimately eliminated. we want to be able to maximize on the effectiveness of these programs that serve america's economic engines. administrator mills, my first question is for you. today, i would like to focus on

women and minority-owned businesses and their ability to access credit, typically women and minority-owned businesses tend to employ a more diverse work force and this is especially at issue today as minority employment is at a high level. i would like to insure that existing programs have the capacity and capability to assist minority and women owned businesses in identifying finance opportunities. i think it is vital that they have the tools that they need to serve this segment of the business population. we must maximize the existing resources to insure that the committee has what it needs. has there been some progress in the area of grant disbursements and will you commit to working with me to increase access of

credit to women and minority- owned businesses run away? >> yes, i would be delighted to be committed to you to do that. we're 3-5 times more likely than a conventional lender to lend to women and minority-owned businesses. this is really what we do. is that the essence of what we do. i am pleased to report to you that in the recovery act funding, " a percent sign of the loans have gone to minorities and 19% to women. we currently have a new and talented and energetic person running these that has conducted regional meetings and has visited all of them and is coming back with a lot of ways to improve and help this important constituency.

>> thank you. i want to also draw your attention to the zone program. it encourages small businesses to hire from the distressed communities. i would be remiss if i did not ask about the progress in the areas of certification of these firms. at a hearing in march, the gao testified that the program fell short and this oversight resulted in another 7.2 million in contracts being awarded to those firms. i want to be cleare . would you please comment on the progress of this process in

order to address this imperfection? this is a good program and it should not suffer due to the shortcomings such as the ones that i've described. >> thank you, yes. at this moment, we have initiated a business process re- engineering and that is a fool, start to finish reengineering with an outside firm that is in place on the certification process. so, we have tight ended up and we require more documentation but we will also do a business process reengineering of it. that is on the certification side. on eligibility, that is were we did the extra 600 visits and we're conducting the analysis to try to find out how to indicate

where there is fraud or mismanagement. in addition, we went after the 19 that were cited in the gao report. 50 voluntarily with -- withdrew. one is actually ok. >> thank you very much. i yield back. >> they do, madam chair, for this hearing. congratulations on your new opportunity. let me mention that small businesses are getting killed. when i look at what we have done with tarp, all the big banks got a lot of money. small business was supposed to get something and it was supposed to have more credit

available. i did a town hall meeting with business is a few months ago. but we have the sba there and they did a very good job in terms of answering questions. i asked how many people have access to credit that work with banks and how many people have their credit changed. everybody in the room raised their hand. i have been in business for 20 years. every region is differ in the country, but there is no credit. they may say that there is credit, but if you put up a million dollars cd, they will loan you $1 million. in florida, we have 137,000 small businesses. they create 75% of the jobs. we talked a good game and i think that the president is committed to small business. i have talked to him personally

about that. i just want to say that in general. banks are all under pressure. they're trying to survive. small banks, local banks, i am talking to them. what do you say to the small businesses in my community that need credit? if they do not have credit, will lose a large number of them. >> congressman, i have also been traveling and hearing these issues. i know that the chairman has mentioned this as well. one thing i want to thank you for is that the recovery act did actually get the formula right. we have been able to leverage w$7 billion into the hands of

small businesses. that is going to continue. 750 banks that had stopped lending were not on our books and are now back london. these are community banks and they are back. some had not been in sba lending since 2007. we are glad about that. we're working very hard to leverage those programs into these places where the lending is frozen. in addition, the president is committed to small businesses and there are a number of additional programs about how to address this. it is a critical issue to resolve for the nation's economy. >> i am telling you, in florida and areas that have been hit really hard, all of these banks,

even though they are getting capital, they are not lending. i will be glad to talk to you about this later. the truth of the matter is, they are not lending. these businesses will be going out of businesses. >> will the gentleman yield? >> one of thdesk. >> the banks are not lending because the market is locked. it is important that the sba implement this so that those banks will have the liquidity to start lending again. do you have a timeline win this war happened? >> it the secondary market is not functioning, banks will not land because they have no place to sell their loan. we have the two programs of their.

the two that she mentioned are still in the light green and that is why the chairwoman is continuing to mention them to me. i will say that the secondary market has recovered. it is back to pre october values. this happens on a monthly basis. we're back to about 340 million. there are 15 billion in part money -- in tarp money. we have committed to execute those programs and we will execute them. >> 24 yielding. >> let me just say, if we can give 200 billion loss all these contingencies with aig, why

don't we take 100 billion and help the small businesses. i am just telling you, and i would love to have to come down to our area and i will take you anywhere in florida. a lot of these businesses are going out of businesses and they have created a lot of jobs. most businesses are 20 or 30 employees at best. they would like to work with the sba and sometimes it takes too long. we have to find a way were they empower you. we need real money in real results. we lost 3 million jobs. these are a lot of working families. we have to get more money out there right now. >> mr. ellsworth? >> the key madame chair.

-- thank you madam chair. i have been on this committee for three years and i have noticed that every time we have a new person coming in, we would ask him these questions than they would say that they are looking into that and working on at and then five months later, sometimes there was a new person that would say they've just got on the job and it would look into that. in four or five months, i hope you can show was progress. what are a couple of things -- you walk in the door and you start peeling stuffed back and you were really shocked.

i would like to ask mr. share the same thing. -- i would like to ask mr. sheare the same thing. i am looking back to make sure i am now giving the correct answer. many of the problems that have been built up over the years are not going to be solved in a matter of days or weeks. but they will indeed be solved. we have a risk-based approach to addressing these issues. we attack every recommendation and we either agree with them

and execute them or we have further discussion on how we should move forward with them. we cannot run an agency that is so critical to the economy. we cannot execute unless we execute without -- at the highest levels of the effectiveness and transparency. that is the commitment. we are working on that. we have great people. we have a great team and we have a great bone structure. our bone structure is our people and our partners. we have over 4000 lending

partners. we have a network throughout this whole country where we touch businesses. we are within one hour to 40 minutes of most businesses for the counselor. we have an important and critical to play. we are breaking down silos >vet. >> we're not supposed to make management decisions.

as an accountability association, we see a lack of control. some people might say that the program is not important, but whenever we look at anything in government, that is something that is always going to be something we think is very important to address. with respect to the capital access programs, this is such a big part of what the sba says. now that we have the credit crisis that faces us, over the

years, among the things we have recommended, the sba is delegating authority to lenders and they are so compliance oriented, but you don't get into questions about how those lenders are using the authority we are granting to them? are the meeting the intent of the program? now i am looking at the recovery act. can sba step back and become more evaluative of how they manage their capital access programs so you can figure out how to implement different provisions to meet the intent. that would be the second area. the third area i would point out as an audit agency, we do

not make recommendations to increase or decrease in the agency's budget. with sba, we are always asking the question. do you have the resources in place? what we tend to look for is some type of strategic planning. what do you need to get the job done. >> to have all those things in place, the agency will need resources because when mr. graves ask the question about

how this agency compares to other agencies, we have to answer the way you answer rid but take into account that this is the agency where, for the last six or seven years, the budget was cut by almost 40%. that is what we need to factor in. >> ms. mills, you and your staff have been approving contracts and were concerned that this could interfere with an ongoing investigation. are you approving contracts requested by the inspector general's office? if you are, how were you ensuring that there is no interference with the ongoing investigation of that office? >> the question is, are we approving contracts.

maybe you could clarify what sort of contracts customer >> could you explain your relationships and we could go from there. >> the inspector general is an independent actor in the agency. they are funded independently and they are very active and they work separately from us but we hope collegial leadelly. >> the work together in any contractual obligations? >> not to my understanding, but i am happy to get back to you with an answer on that for the record. >> ok. >> we have a senior risk team

that looks at a number of things. although we have small risk teams that go program by program, we are working on a more comprehensive basis on a senior level about how much risk we're taking on. consciously, in the park program -- in the ark program, we should do that consciously. >> when you talk about risk, you talk about how you discerned or evaluate a loan application? >> for instance, the program that is part of the recovery act is a much riskier program than the sba usually does. we expect very high default rates, but is an important

program for this time. it is for businesses that are experiencing difficulty, but it is a bridge over troubled water for them. it is a concept but we are executing as part of the recovery act, but it is also a program that is not within our normal risk profile. that is one of our preferences. >> what did you do if it is too risky? >> we set parameters in the beginning as to what the default rates will be. the default rate specification is a model that we built. it is 60%. that is well beyond what we haven't any of our other programs. our expectation is that what we will get. >> just one final comment.

i had a question that i wanted to ask. a couple of weeks ago, we had a group in here that talked about the amount of paperwork that is involved and mr. shear made a comment on that. have you looked into that at all? do you have any plans? is it on your regard to try to do something about that? i used to do this. it is horrible. to go through this process. you made a comment that the process took 14-18 days. >> it is actually sa 5-7

business days. i am a big advocate of process reengineering and we need to make these programs effective and efficient for the bar were -- for the bar were. -- for the borrower. >> said it does sound like a commitment to me. are you going to look at this program and fine tune that? >> es i m. >> bee-- yes, i am. >> mr. foreman? >> i have heard from many constituents and there is a great deal of demand for these loans. last week, a subcommittee held a hearing and witnesses testified

that very few banks are making loans. in the whole kansas city area, this is an issue. one witness may be important point that there is no incentive for banks to make loans. what, if anything, can sba do to make this more attractive to lenders? >> these loans -- we have over 300 lenders in 47 states. we will have a limited number of loans available and it will be approximately 10,000 before the funding runs out. it is likely that demand will greatly exceed supply. which trained 1300 lenders in

the first week and lenders have no risk. it is 100% guaranteed by the bank and they do make a profit because all the bar were pays no interest, the sba funds the interest. >> thank you both for testifying today and sharing your expertise. administrator mills, want to commend your leadership. we have seen a real rebound in the secondary market and we're seeing increased lending participation from lenders. this is so important to the small business community as we try to ease the credit crunch

from limiting their access to capital. you also talked about process reengineering. there are some lenders that need to have trust rebuilt with lenders because of something in their history that undermine that. what comments would you share that your do to help rebuild those relationships where there are letters that are not participating but could be participating? before you answer, i want to acknowledge that i worked with some of your folks in chicago. senator bourbon and i held a forum. it was very well received and your folks did a very good job. >> thank you very much.

it is very important that we build our relationships with our lenders. let me tell you to faints. one thing is transparency. we are making sure that lenders know how they are rated. that is something that we promote. and once we have experience with the lender, we are able to do various savings such as using their own paper work and making their own decisions and then we monitor them and we find that our best lenders -- we have a very good friends that relationship. >> they do, so much. i yield back. -- thank you, so much. i yield back. >> we are concerned about the amounts of time it takes but

also how much time it takes to implement things required by law. we talked a lot about the program. it is supposed to be implemented within 15 days of enactment. my question to you is, i would like a commitment that the agency was formed to implement programs that are required by law before implementing some of the pilot programs you're working on. we would like to hear you say that you would do those things that are required before doing some of the other diversions. >> i very much and committed to those things that are required by law, and is recovering at things are our top priority. i do want to tell you that we did the loan because of a risk

profile that was very much higher than the standard risk profile that the agency takes on and that is what took the time to create a risk mitigation that would allow us to go out and make these loans appropriately. the chairwoman had mentioned to me the same issue and you mention that issue. we did sequence them because that was the right thing to do. >> ms. mills, we are concerned about the fact that there are certain provisions that congress passed requiring the sba to issue regulations and to get those programs up and running. in answering your question, you

mentioned that those were high- risk, so you needed to act cautiously. my question to you, for financing is not risky -- and for financing is not risky -- floor financing is not risky? i want to make sure that you tell us your intention and commitment to get those provisions up and running, for example, in the security act, this includes energy efficiency and the renewable fuel capital

investment company. those provisions have not been implemented. in the military and small business reauthorization and opportunity act of 2008, this includes a section 105, increasing the number of veterans centers has not been implemented. section 208, the veterans' loan program has not been implemented. so, can you tell this committee when the agency will have the to these provisions up and running? >> absolutely. we are committed to do those things that you give us to execute. i would like to have the opportunity to come back to you

and make a timetable so that you can no one to expect it. at this time, we need to commit to you to come back to you with what and implementation time and plan would be for each of those. >> if there is anything that the committee needs to do, then that should be part of a legislative package that the administration should be sending to us. >> the map of eligibility is what the agency uses to determine if they can for dissipate. where was the last time that your agency updated its map? >> the last time the map was updated was last fall and it will be updated again this fall.

>> yes, and the sba is latest budget requests $9 million for operating the hubble zone program and i am going back to the hub zone program because it has taken a lot of time to implement some of the recommendations that the government accountability

office included in its report. for operating the hubble zone program, while it seems significant, there were 52 firms in the program that were found to be a knowledgeable. what are taxpayers getting for their $9 million? what are you going to do about it? >> as you know, 10.8 billion went to hub zone firms. the specifications are that you have to be a small business and have your principal office in the zone and employer 25 percent of your workers from inside this subzone. we are in the process of

executing some oversight improvements to ensure that those requirements are met. that is where we are doing the site visits and that is where we plan to improve our processes. we need to get that program to replace -- to replace that have -- to a place that is beneficial. >> we need an updated written disaster plan that distinguishes the agency response, the bridge loan programs mandated by the act, the annual report to

congress on disaster assistance and i would like to have those time frames and responses in our offices in two weeks. >> yes, we can do that. >> with that, the witnesses are dismiss and i take this opportunity to really think you -- are dismissed and i take this opportunity to really thank you. bucs the key. -- >> thank you. >> >> george whip signed a

declaration of independence and he was also murdered. bruce chadwick wrote the book. >> tonight, british prime minister gordon brown before the 30 members of the house of commons liaison committee answering questions on the british economy, the banking crisis and foreign affairs. >> this week, the senate could take action on additional funding for the cash for clunkers program. we talked to alexander bulletin on what is ahead. >> the house voted on friday to accuse another $2 billion. what is the next that? >> that has to pass the senate and has to -- it passed overwhelmingly in the house by a vote of 316 to 109, but the senate will be a tougher battle because some senators have said

they will oppose it. >> what did the transportation secretary have to say about the future of the program? >> he essentially said it was a good program and would like to see it continue. but folks on the hill like dianne feinstein and susan collins want more information from the transportation department. they want to know how the first billion dollars has been spent and what types of vehicles have been purchased. the want to know whether people are really making a significant gas mileage upgrade to their vehicle and that is hard to say. there has been a flurry of purchases in the past week and no one has analyzed the data. >> your article mentions who will be challenged in this. it will be leading the charge? >> that would be senator john mccain.

his upper -- his opposition is significant because he has a history of working across the aisle with democrats. he has good relationships with others. he could possibly persuade them to approve this bill. dianne feinstein is a very influential voice. she agreed to the cash for clunkers program in the first place on the condition that any follow-up would raise the gas mileage standards even further. when congress first pass this bill, she had a measure that would increase gas mileage measures. she was persuaded to support

that first bill if the extension were to boost the standards. the house bill does not appear to do that. she will be a tough one to persuade without the support and will be tough to get this done. is it too early to consider the overall impact of this program? >> no, it has been a mild success for auto dealers. they sold to order the 2000 vehicles because of this program in the first week. auto dealers want to see it. as to what the long-term impact on the car industry is, it is hard to say. republicans say that this is throwing the market out of whack because this may just set the mark for a slow in sales down the road.

>> we thank you for your time today. >> the u.s. house has begun its month-long summer recess, but the senate will be in session this week. on monday, they will work on the agriculture spending bill. the first roll call will be tomorrow. also this week, the senate could take up the cash for clunkers bill, it has already been approved by the house. coming up tuesday, the debate begins on the approval of judge sonia sotomayor. that is on c-span [applause] . >> georgia whip sign the declaration of independence. he was also murdered.

that is tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> tonight, british prime minister gordon brown did for the 40 members of the house of commons liaison committee. that is at 9:00 p.m. on c-span. >> how is he spent funded? >> i have no clue. >> maybe some government grants? >> i would say donations. >> advertising for products? >> public money, i am sure. >> by taxes? >> how is c-span funded? america's cable companies created c-span as a public service. no government mandate, no government money. >> joining us on newsmakers it is the secretary of transportation. thank you for being with us. with this is ken thomas of the

associated press. mr. secretary, let me begin with the editorial this morning from the washington post. they write, will the next stimulation be the last? maybe the government should buy ever bought a new car. you see where they're going with this. what is your reaction? >> this has been a wildly popular program. it has really given new life to automobile dealers all over the country. automobile dealers were closing their doors and laying salesman often playing mechanics often this has been a lifeline for the automobile manufacturers around america. it is probably the one real stimulus part that has worked very well, very seriously, and i think