judge sotomayor and the government's cash for clunkers program with maryland senator ben cardin. "washington journal" starts now. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] host: former louisiana congressman bill jefferson convicted of public corruption and other charges. and the gang of six, as they are called, bipartisan senators negotiating health care are invited to the white house. the senate is due to vote on the nomination of sonia sotomayor to the supreme court today. also set to vote on an extension of the so-called cash for clunkers programs. all this and more as we began with john solomon, executive editor of "the washington times." here are the telephone numbers

if you would like to call us all -- with your thoughts. host: john solomon, we were looking at your front page and you have such a wealth of different topics and big issues. i thought we would spend our first half hour going round robin. let us start with your exclusive interview yesterday with admiral mike mullen, chairman of the joint chiefs, on afghanistan. guest: it was a very stark interview. he said, listen, i am not going to lie to you, we are in a big hole. we start our military and diplomatic resources there. we created a culture of poverty, that caught our ears, in our own military. it will take us many years to dig out of it. he gave a candid and bleak

assessment and said it is an uphill slog. i think a lot of people are still focused in iraq but the afghan theatre is becoming more prominent. host: what does he mean by a culture of poverty? guest: they were so used to doing without, whether it is military equipment or specialties needed in the field, particularly dealing with the civilian side would you are doing the nation building. the military sort of got into the mindset that there was little they can do, so they were in this all occurred down mentality. he is trying to break the cycle. he said there is an open checkbook. he told particularly general mcchrystal, whatever you need, you will get it and we will try to win this conflict. host: let me pick up on the open checkbook. i saw a story in "the financial times" this morning -- obama faces a huge bill on afghan security.

the new commander, and the final stages of review. they are expecting the combined total force will be recommended to be increased to 400,000, including the afghan army and police force that they will be training. i'm wondering about how this will get paid for. guest: good question. we tried to pin him down on whether he expected a large troop increase. he kept his powder dry with a wry smile sometimes. what he kept saying, this is going to be the question of having the right amount of resources on the ground. right now i think you will see a substantial increase in forces. we sent 17,000 troops. i think it is an opening downpayment. where does the money come from? i don't know. we have different things with spending money on, we have the health care bill, the renewal of the cash for clunkers, the stimulus bill. i doubt there is anyone in

congress who wants to deprive the military of the money it needs. i am guessing it will come from deficit spending. host: john solomon will spend the full hour with us. the first half-hour is your calls on the many issues -- health care and the other issues in the news. his reporters have been calling -- covering all of them in washington and lots of international reporting. then at the half-hour mark, we will switch and focus on a series the newspaper has been doing on the past several days on the aftermath, especially in the areas of mental health, of hurricane katrina. give us a quick insight. guest: we spent four weeks on the streets of new orleans been chronicling the one story perhaps americans have not heard about, and that was the rise of mental illness on the streets of new orleans. more than doubled since the train appeared mostly related to katrina. they call it post-katrina stress disorder.

host: there is an interactive web site with lots of photographs and video. there's a special line for louisiana viewers during the second half hour. let us spend a little more time on the front page and then we will take telephone calls. right below the admiral mullen interview is a story about the economy. consumers blind to signals of improving economy. what is your reporting on actually talking to people as well as looking at statistics? guest: our economic correspondent has the magic crystal ball. she sees signs the economy is beginning to sputter back to life. but the frustrating part is a political issue, while the economy is coming back and wall street is beginning to grow, the things that mattered most at the dinner table and water cooler -- jobs and wages -- will be the last to rebound.

so, the political question is, while there are good signs of a growing economy or soon to be growing economy, the political questions of how people are frustrating and why they are not getting the jobs back, i think we will see an unemployment report friday that crosses 10% for the first time in a long time. people are not feeling the personal impact from growth, which is jobs and wages. so, she really explores that on the front page. host: the white house is asking the chief economic aide christine romer to go out and set the stage for the jobless numbers. what can the white house say? guest: they can make a statistical case that jobs are usually the last comeback. that is not much solace if you are unemployed or sitting in detroit. the second thing is to say, listen, we are beginning to put a lot of money into the economy. the stimulus package is just beginning to take hold.

i think they will make the case if you could hold on a little longer, help and good news is probably on the way. host: stimulus to aid foreign battery builders. guest: president obama went to indiana and announced more than $2 billion of grants from the stimulus package. more money to get hybrid cars and the next generation of green batteries. but if you take a look at the companies who won the grants, and six of them, more than $1 billion of the money, all have ties to foreign companies -- china, russia, south korea, and france. many don't have the capability right now to even build in the united states. they committed to that -- but when you ask the question of the stimulus money, an instant impact in the united states, most that we talked to said, no, these are countries overseas. it will take them time to build u.s. capacities. host: first up is a call from

oklahoma. paul watching up, -- watching us, calling from the democrats' line. caller: i would like to just say on this health care system, we spent trillions of dollars around the world everywhere. we rebuild countries. yet when it comes to doing something for our own people, it just seems that they set up and argue. they can't come together. we pay our taxes. we deserve something from our government. to help other countries and turn your back on your own people, i think that is a shame and i don't see how the senators and congressmen can even go to sleep at night. they're conscious have the conscience has to be bothering them. host: what direction do you want to go? caller: i was end the hospital -- i was in the hospital because i have a bad heart.

they charge me $25 for a pill. and i spend $10 for a month's supply. in hospital, $25 and return the gave it to me. they need to cut the costs. they cannot sell high price -- and expect us to survive on third world wages and minimal wages. we have to do something for people. get jobs back, but health care is an issue. i am a senior citizen. i am on medicare. sometimes i get by, sometimes i don't. host: we appreciate your call. guest: the sentiment is obviously a widespread. people want change in health care system, they voted for change in president obama but we learned more than a decade how intractable the issue is. lots of arm-twisting going on. and also there is a lot of

legitimate disagreements about what is " right way to proceed. republicans have won vision, democrats have another. there are concerned rick -- conservative democrats, moderate republicans in the middle that i think will be the best fighters. they will be the people, wherever consensus is reached they will drive it appeared the area to watch more closely is the senate finance committee. they are inching closer and closer to solve some of the disputes. if there is any chance of bipartisan health care reform, which i think democrats want, it will probably come from that process. there are a lot of issues to be closed. host: how do you plan to cover the town hall meetings? guest: you will see ads and our papers starting tomorrow. we will send reporters all next week, from michigan to florida, to denver, to get the sentence as lawmakers go back home for the first time since the start of the new congress and really

get an earful about their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with washington. a lot of video. there is a part of our website where local residents can up load their cell phone videos from their town hall. clips that show the dynamic at work. both sides will be working the town hall very effected appeared president obama sort of activated his it -- very effectively. president obama sort of activated his electronic jury to get the democratic side into the town hall meetings. we will have extensive coverage. host: pennsylvania, and on the independence line. -- on the independent line. caller: lately the commentators have been using a lot of time -- when the senators come on, economy, health care reform,

throwing the softball questions. they ask them questions and between and the people who want to call in with a hard-hitting questions, the hard-hitting questions, very few of those get through. the commentators are spending too much time allowing these senators and other people to come on, to get their talking point in, and we don't get the hard-hitting questions. guest: i'm ready. caller: the war in afghanistan. this is a waste of war. french were in there, the russians got in and got out because they were economically bankrupt. we are $12 trillion in the hole. we went there to deny al qaeda training camps. al qaeda is all around the world. if we stop them there, they will open up a training camp in africa. we spent hundreds of billions of dollars.

it cost them one hunt -- a couple of hundred thousand a year for them to fight the war and we are spending hundreds of billions. and we are hurting here at home. we don't have the money for health care reform, we don't have money for state. bush tax cuts cut billions of dollars to the states to help them every year. the states are hurting and a lot are due to the bush tax cuts and yet we are going to spend after $560 billion on this military budget, we are going to spend? north korea, most of the money goes to the military budget. host: thank you. guest: one of the questions we ask is what constitutes a victory in afghanistan. we asked it to admiral mullen yesterday, and said the point we reach with afghan national police and the army can take over the of the security of the

country, and that will constitute a victory. that is a limited engagement, but i think it will be costly, in the tens of billions of dollars. one of the most ingesting things we hear, we are spending the money on the war front but we hear a lot from the pakistani ambassador, afghan elected officials, and where they need money is the civilian side, to build up infrastructure so people on the daily street feel like they have a civil society. i am not sure that money will be able to come forward. there is $1.5 billion better talk about the pakistan. a lot are saying it is not enough to help them reverse the tide of extremists and. there is an inherent strobel of how we fund our military and how we -- there is an inherent strobel of how we fund our military -- struggle and how we fund our military and civilian side. host: our next caller is up.

caller: i agree with our last caller. in vietnam, iraq and afghanistan, the american war, we invade everybody. but on health care, it is a cop out when they say they haven't read it. they don't want you to know what is in it. teddy kennedy, he has been around 8 decade, isn't that long enough? he is going around the universe spending the taxpayers' money trying to stay alive. whereas in the bill people are not supposed to do that. guest: there has been so much discussion about what congress read the 1000-page bill. we will do something next week on the radio show, american morning news, and in our newspaper. we will take exurbs of interesting pages, so people who don't have access to the bill can see some of the more interesting provisions -- we will take exit looks -- exeerpt

s of certain sections of the bill. we have a former congressman who will be on the radio show who will literally walk through different pages and describe the process of how things like this get put into bills. and putting and pieces in the paper and that their readers decide what they like or don't about the bill. host: michael is an los angeles calling on the democrats' line. caller: so much to comment on. i will make a comment about the wars and then on health care, a personal experience. it is obvious that it is ridiculous we ever went to afghanistan or iraq, and it will be just a legacy of george bush of how terrible a president he was, and that is enough said about that. as far as health care is concerned, just from personal standpoint, i have been out of work, and one of the 47 million americans who is not insured. i somehow or another managed to have a sandwich six months ago

and apparently accidentally swallowed a toothpick. i would of one morning with severe pain in my abdomen -- will come up one morning with severe pain in my abdomen. -- i woke up one morning with severe pain in my abdomen. my family session go to the hospital. they did an mri and they saw that there was a toothpick; and i needed emergency surgery. my family paid the surgeon an anesthesiologist. i was in a hospital for five days. i could not eat. i was never in i see you -- never in icu. and the bill came to $80,000. i figured out, $670 per hour that i was in the hospital. which i think is indicative of a huge problem in health care in

general. the guy was talking about the $25 a pill. i don't see how any hospital or any endeavor can justify that sort of money. so, i think it is absolutely essential that we have some sort of provision in this health care legislation coming up that allows for every american to be able to comment if they have an from urgency or if they would like -- american to be able to, if they have an emergency, can see a physician somehow. i just sent out an e-mail. you can access a pdf file of the health-care bill. i sent it out to all of the people on my e-mail list, 100 people. all of us are well educated. my question is simple -- have you read this? yes or no. not one person has read the bill.

since i am out of work i decided over the next few weeks i will go and read it. my question, i think all of you who are talking about it, every congressman, senator, the people, pundits, everyone who has opinions, before they start talking i will ask one question -- have you read it? my question to you is, how do you -- have you read it, john solomon, and if so, how you go about tackling a 1000-page bill if you are not an attorney and how do you figure out how to do it? guest: it is a great question and it is good to hear someone so engaged in democracy that they are reading what their government is doing. i have read the entire bill. i took it home a week and a half ago to familiarize myself so i craft the coverage that we want to do at "the washington times."

you read the first time, you highlight and make notes and then you talk to experts, people who work in the medicare medical professions and say what is different, what are the points that me and my team as a journalist need to focus on, and then focus would experts tell you the most interesting stuff is, the stuff americans need to know. interestingly enough, there are several provisions of the house democratic bill that has been out there, the 1000-page bill, that do go to cost control. i think there is one issue that has not been brought to the forefront but i think it will battle -- the battle out in the fall, and a big special interest battle. that is the effect of law suits on the rising cost of medical. most doctors, the ama, they are concerned about legal reform being tied into health care reform. i think you will see that coming up in september as they tried to reach consensus. when you talk to doctors, it is

hard to find some one was to go into the profession because of all the lawsuits against them. that is an issue that will come out. it was certainly fought in 1993 and 1994 and i think it will be talked about in the fall. i think the cost control you talked about, a very important factor to most americans, will be tied in some way by republicans and special-interest groups to some legal tort reform. host: "the washington times" has a section called plug the national security. the front page is on afghanistan. u.s. sees difficult missions for troops. i want to show you a message by twitter that says -- how do we know what the afghan people want? my guess is they want nothing more than the americans to leave them alone. guest: i can answer what we know. in the last year would have probably been on the ground with reporters and photographers and afghanistan about nine weeks. we went out late last fall to

into the question, which is, what did afghan people what? what is bothering them? what are their desires? one is, they want some sense of security and enormous and. they have had, not just decades, but centuries of war. they want normal lives. if the american soldiers and the government can bring some form of that, they are satisfied with it. they are distrustful until they see results. they want less corruption in their own government. there is enormous frustration with the karzai government. they want less drugs in the streets. one of the ironies is that taliban restricted the opium trade to a small part -- after their removal, in blossom again beard we wrote a powerful front page story about opium addiction by women and children. they want that to be lifted from them beard and then they do want the u.s. troops to go. they would like the help, the

normalcy, and then they would like us out of there. i think for the first time there is a clarity of vision of what the afghan people want and what our military is able to deliver, and that is, to create normalcy and sense of security among civilian life, get the infrastructure somewhat built and then turn over the daily operations to their own people. i think that is the mission and more mullen talked about extensively yesterday. it does seem to sink with what we picked up -- synch what we picked up. host: good morning. caller: the morning, i hope you're having a happy day. i am only 76 years old, so therefore i don't know too much about life. i have seen things and people you really would not like to see. i will tell you that this old philosophy i was given when i was a years old by my mother,

and she is now dead and -- dead and gone, god bless her soul. she said politicians make wars and the bloodstock gets killed. they will promise you the earth to get into office but once they get into office, everything goes out of the window. they find, first and foremost, the easiest thing to do is to spend other people's money. and now on top of which, instead of taking into consideration the people who voted for them, they forget them. and charity, even though it should begin at home, goes far afield. finally, a politician's promises like a pie crust. it is made to be broken. that is all i have to say at this time. guest: interesting, the sentiments you had. i think our founding fathers had

a similar sentiment and that is why they made sure elections for the house of representatives is every two years so if americans are dissatisfied they can quickly rectify it. for years for a president, six years for a senator. i think our founding fathers have a distrust of government so they built in elections to allow us to rectify or change course is the american people are dissatisfied. it is interesting how quickly the sentiment turned. remember back in january, how ecstatic most americans were about the proposition of a new president, a new era in government. in just six short months there has been the growing frustration. i think every president experiences it, no matter george bush, jimmy carter, ronald reagan beard your honeymoon is short-lived and then the american people want to see -- ronald reagan. your honeymoon is short-lived and the american people want to see what you're doing. it will be an interesting time for the president and his team to deliver promised or explain

why they didn't and the american people to reconcile what they voted for and got. in december and january, as we head into 2010 elections, the electorate will have a big decision about how they liked the first year of the obama administration. host: let us talk about former president bill clinton. a much-seen a video. not only are there discussions today in all media about what is next for u.s. and north korea, but also about former president bill clinton of what the trip means to him. i will ask you to comment on both. guest: i think there is a two- headed answer for that. this is a moment clinton long sought. he was something on the world stage beyond his extraordinary charitable work. he always viewed himself as possibly having the role of an older statement -- elder statesman, to broker deals.

when opportunity arose and the message came back and said it bill clinton would show up, the north koreans will release them. i think he skillfully navigated the issues. they were looking for a face- saving way to return based sauntered reporters. and bill clinton gave them that. the big question now is, effectiveness have with u.s. and north relations. the obama administration was quickly -- was quick to say, this does not change anything. if north korea wants to normalize relationships, the leadership needs to continue to renounce its nuclear program. i do not think that would have much impact. north korea has proven to be intractable on that issue for a long time. now the question is, can the u.s. use this opportunity, the goodwill of the north koreans felt by bill clinton's appearance to may be open

bilateral discussions instead of the multi-country discussions with north korea appeared north korea wants to negotiate directly with the united states -- with north korea. north korea wants to negotiate directly with the united states. we take the risk and tried to enter but negotiations, thinking maybe some good will come out of it. host: jacksonville, florida. pat on the republican line. caller: good morning. i would like you let me talk as long as the man who gave his details about being in a hospital. i would like to make two points and ask questions. the albatross hong around democrats' neck is illegal immigration. the republicans, like msnbc said grover norquist said he sent out e-mails and supposedly turning out people. grover norquist could not turn out 10 people.

he has free trade, that is the of the cross around his neck. of those republicans, john mccain and grover norquist got back into pulp -- trouble, the first thing they would do is have fire sale on american jobs. you have democrats -- buried in the details, yes, they plan to cover illegal aliens and they do it by not requiring any identification. the democrats have voted down three times an attempt to say it has to be american citizens and you have to show just the id for medicare and medicaid. and they will do it. all they are asking for is a driver's license, which can be bought in mexico for $45. also, starting on page 789, pages and pages of racial preferences but not equal opportunity. disadvantaged minorities, which does not go to minorities that have historical roles and the united states. most people would probably go

along with that. but justice advantage, anyone in the world. i can go on and on. these are like the 8 million pound gorillas no one is talking about. today "the miami herald" saying they are erupting in south florida. i do not think the hispanics in south florida are right wing extremists, they are fed up with the republicans who have sold their jobs, and if it got into power would be free trade the minute they sat down, and the war in afghanistan, which has gone on and on and on, in the life out of this country, and the democrats who represent people who are illegally here. that is all they think about. they are consumed with it. they are demonizing our police. we have police shot down every day. the present up there saying they acted stupidly. and it is -- we have the president of this saying they acted stupidly. it is like alice in wonderland,

going through the looking glass. guest: in scenes of the sentiment of many we interviewed at the tea parties. you are astute in noticing one thing, i do think immigration will emerge as one of the issues that will, -- will come out. tort reform and legal reform, the doctors will demanded. immigration is another issue, which is how much of the burden with the united states public to take to take care of the health care of people here illegally. and there has been very little discussion of immigration in the past seven months but i think in the fall of will come up. it will probably be tied to health care. another one of the issues were congress tends to kick the can down the road. everyone says they want to deal with it but nobody has come up with a plan for consensus. i do think health care and immigration will come together in the fall.

we are seeing signs just behind the scenes maneuvering. i suspect one lawmakers come back and get an earful from folks like you, they will bring it back. host: miami, you are on the air. carl of the democrats' line. caller: by virtue of the fact that your last name is solomon, it means wisdom. what we see here is that the young people are not tolerating what their fathers and mothers are about. meaning, sputnik -- when sputnik was launched we went in different directions because we were embarrassed. what happened to us next time, you had in the south, a war against immigration and sputnik, the russians were able to do the things that were positive worldwide.

so we lost track because we were so busy fighting a cause that we are not going to succeed because look at what has happened since then. we are able now to have a black president, we are able to have in congress black congressmen, black congressmen and also have governors. we had in virginia. it takes time to heal. but if we are going to move forward -- in the bible it tells us about how jake up was treated fairly -- -- but was treated fairly when there was a drought, a famine, a problem -- jacob was treated fairly. we have hypocrites and hatemongers who lynch and did negative things to people in this country and their children -- if you look at it, it is not

those teenagers, it is not those who are in college, it is the ones who are children of these the dixiecrats who have the hate theory. it is not going to succeed. host: thank you. let me get a response from mr. sullivan. guest: you talked about different causa that united america. after sputnik, we went to pick the moon. ronald reagan rally in the country to end communism. you can think of george bush's cry in 2001 that we would defeat -- lead a global war on terrorism and extremism. it is interesting, the last one, the war on terrorism seems to have lost some of that national feeling. when you do polling, you see people not as invested in the success of afghanistan and iraq and other places where we are fighting were secretly, such as the horn of africa. yet in our strategic interest, clearly fighting terrorism will

remain the big issue. he what is the next big national issue? what can president obama defined as the national agenda? he tried very much to make health care that. in the last press conference he said it is intimately tied to your own personal future as an american. but we have not seen americans rally around that idea yet as a national cause. this is something president obama and his allies will try to do. he will try to cast the health care debate as important as going to the moon or defeating communism or terrorism you will see this through this -- or terrorism. he will see this through this electronic effort. i think that is going to be fascinating to cover as a journalist and also to watch as an ever -- as an average american as you see the electronic messages and phone calls to get you to rally the cause of health care.

host: we're going to switch topics now. we are going to add a fourth phone line for people who live in the state of louisiana. i want to spend our next 20 minutes with john solomon learning about what is reporters learned on the ground in new orleans as the fourth anniversary of hurricane katrina comes upon the nation. is it fair to say that this is a national story, an important national story? explain why? guest: sonntag things in my career as a journalist -- i said after 9/11, we would not stop reporting of terrorism until we understood it, and then katrina, in the aftermath, where ever i was as a reporter we would not let americans forget about it. it is so easy. we put bad memories behind us as quickly as we can. but what was left in the morning after katrina was a completely dysfunctional system, both politically and the social

structure, social support structure. there is still lots of work that needs to be done beard we went back there in may and june and we spent 30 days -- there is still lots of work that needs to be done. we went back there in may and june and spent 30 days. the biggest thing people are not talking about is the extraordinary mental health -- experts say they have not seen the rise of mental illness so fast. tripling the number of people who are suffering from mental illness. most of it is related to katrina. they call the post-katrina stress disorder. we were on the streets and there were certainly thousands of people, formerly high functioning people, people who held jobs as janitors -- accountants, janitors, they say it shook them so much that they would of been the middle of the night with visions of bodies. these are people who lead perfectly normal lives. the issue has become so big that

it has overwhelmed the new orleans system. the senator went to the senate floor a couple of days after we broke the story, she praised it but she also said it has been impossible to get the attention to this issue. people left the katrina story behind and yet this legacy needs to be resolved. we committed a lot of resources, 30 days, and that the people suffering from mental list. they agreed to let us videotape them so you can look in their eyes. we went out with a special police unit that goes out every night and tries to go into abandoned buildings and find mentally ill people who need treatment, tried to get them to the hospital and, in for mental treatment. then the issue, what capacity does new orleans have? the number of beds had dedicated to mental health is less than half of than before, even as the numbers have doubled or in some estimates, troubled. the capacity is far less than before katrina and starting september 1, the only public hospital with dedicated mental

health ward will be closed, eliminating seven more beds. we hope we keep the story front and center so americans can absorb and try to find a solution right in our backyard. we talk about afghanistan and iraq, but this is right in our back yard. it will be interesting to see what the obama administration and congress does in reaction to the stories we did. host: if you are looking at video of these teams going through houses. first, on the abandoned buildings alone -- before katrina there were estimated 10,000 and now there are 70,000. experts have no idea how many people are actually living inside those abandoned buildings. but when the going these patrols, what of a finding? guest: unbelievably squalid conditions. there was an old hospital where homeless and mentally ill people are residing.

the cell phones of doctors and nurses are still plug into the walls from the night of katrina when they fled. racks, all in festive. -- rats, it is infested. there are people living there, they admit they have schizophrenic -- schizophrenia. one person, one week two, who said he used to have a job and he owned two cars and he used to be proud of his home. now district -- has stresses. within a couple of weeks we have got word he had been severely beaten in one of the buildings and was severely injured. these scores of people -- city officials put it in the thousands -- are living in conditions no american should live and. this is one of the greatest countries in the world, this is the greatest budget, yet we have people living in conditions that you and i cannot imagine in a city that is beginning to revive

itself but has not been able to overcome the devastating effects. where the solution comes from is from political leaders to decide, but we hope our story prompts a discussion that a solution needs to be at least debated in the halls of power. host: the estimated number of people who experienced the storm who have mental problems is what? guest: a good question -- host: i have a number written down, 44%? guest: that is a number who did -- 44% had some insight and comments on this. those who have diagnosed mental illnesses is probably around 30%. i cannot think of another city or location an america where anyone would tolerate one-third the population below with mental illness and nothing or very little being done about it. i think that is what is so stark. the numbers are so large. the signs of the issues are so

overwhelming and obvious that all you have to do is spend one night going to the buildings or walking around or spend one night with this extraordinary police unit committed itself to helping people, and you will see the magnitude. our reporters, the first thing they did is discussed what they saw before we laid out the project. they were visibly changed. they cannot believe what they saw four years after katrina was still there are unresolved and not being spoken about in the american dialogue right now. host: here is what the hard copies of the newspapers look like. on monday, katrina's silent disaster. for the mentally ill, a tempest still raging. tuesday -- mental illness tidal wave. new orleans system shrinking and coming undone. and yesterday, clash of solutions from powers that be. ray nagin, the mayor, jindal,

the governor, sees hospital closure two ways. we will talk about that and the next 20 minutes. this twitter message -- katrina is an example waiting for government cures of of doing for yourself. guest: that is a question we ask political leaders, how much responsibility do you -- do you bear? why should the federal government, and? we ask that to the jindal of the mysteries and an array -- and mayor ray nagin. the size is now beyond the scope of any local and state government to address. we have 30% of the entire city, you are literally incapacitated. now, in neighboring mississippi, you can take a look at governor haley barbour posset example, he did not ask for much federal aid, although they had much the same damage, and he and his

state government had taken pride in doing everything on their own, willingness is the back of their feet and you did not hear much about the problems. what ever the case, wherever, -- whatever the cause of katrina's dysfunction that caused, but should be roundly given to hospital officials, police, government officials, everyone. but now they say it is a problem that no locality or state can address. as long as the cycle of mental almost rose and our ability to treat it is the minister, this will rage on and get bigger and bigger -- mental lists rises and our ability to treat it diminish. the anniversary of katrina comes in the last week of august. we have been pushing for an interview for president obama. we would like to see his vision. democrats keep the lot of criticism on the bush

administration and we would like to know what they have in mind to deal with the one issue that is now standing out there for years later, which is the mental health crisis. host: 8 twitter comment to rights -- because i am older, i can't deal with the chaos. i was/am self-employed fine furniture maker, plan to move home if you days before the train hit. tucson, sarah on the democrats' line. caller: i'm one of the people watched in horror when three of four days went by and nothing happened from the government. we have the look of the ways we do wrong and how we can do things differently. we saw a racial divide. i heard racist people calling in today talking about illegal immigrants. we have illegal immigrants from canada and other countries. but we just have to be more tolerant country.

yes, we want our laws to be upheld but we need to be a more tolerant and compassionate country. it is sad when people call with anger against other races. i'm grateful i went to school where i was 80% or 90 percent hispanic. i grew up with lots of minority. color is only skin deep, as my pastor explain that last sunday. i just want to say from your perspective, how do we fully account for everyone killed by hurricane katrina? now we have people committing suicide, mental illness, on dialysis. how do we fully account for it? isn't each one of those peoples lives of valuable even if we want to blame them because they stayed there? host: thank you. guest: a great question.

americans have two things -- great capacity to do what we apply ourselves to do and also a short attention span. we take on some issues and a world, national security and our own domestic agenda, that it is sometimes easy to get distracted. that is why the role of a free press and particularly in newspaper to remind people, hey, there is unfinished business. it can inform the dialogue and get people activated and to call their lawmakers and take action. i think what we hope to do the project is simply to shine a light. the newspaper's job is not to create a solution but to shine a light on what people forgot about that lost track of. i think we put the attention span back on katrina to some degree and hopefully america's great capacity to address it will now rise to the top and create a solution to help louisiana and new orleans.

host: we invite you to find "washington times on line, and interactive site with video, photographs, commentary and a lot of statistics. before katrina, the population of the city was about 460,000 and it is now closer to 300,000. the homeless population before katrina, 6000, and after katrina, estimates are about 12,000 plus. the next phone call is from new orleans, angelo on the democrats' line. caller: bravo. thank you very much for bringing this before the people's eyes. you know, our state runs in deficit when oil was below $50 a barrel, so to cut money are intelligent republican governor closes the mental hospital here, new orleans adolescents

hospital. you can't find a psychologist or a psychiatrist in new orleans parish that will take medicare or medicaid. katrina happened on the 29th, the majority of people in the new orleans are low income people who receive a check on the third and are dependent, so when katrina hit, everybody was broke. nobody had money to evacuate or go to hotels or for gas or anything like that. we sat through quite a few noreen's hurricanes that were worse than katrina. -- quite a few new orleans hurricanes that were worse than katrina. we thought we could hold out. the red for cross never came to orleans parish. -- the red cross never came. i stood in water up to my chest for 26 hours. i had nightmares about this.

anyway, god bless you, sir, and thank you for bringing this to the attention to the american people. guest: thank you for your comments. and fine would ever help you can. the people i talked to, the lead story told an incredible story, the woman thought she was drowning in the water and she was literally having a flashback. the police of as a gently lifted her chin up and then got into the van and said, you are safe now. watching that play out before your eyes is really impact full and powerful. the issues there are real, the nightmares you talk about and the disorientation and fear, we witnessed it for days and days. it is something to watch. for all of those laws survive, we hope you can find the right help and issues that you are realistically dealing with. host: mich., geraldine, the

republican line. caller: i was going to say god helps those who help themselves. many people go through tragedies -- when i see soldiers to come back from a war four times, they suffer terrible tragedy and they keep sending them back again, like the one soldier who broke down and ended up shooting his own soldiers there. i think those people just thought to take a deep breath, stand up and start again because 90 million psychiatrists we are going to pay for now, don't we all enough money to china? guest: existing sentiment. you talk about veterans. our paper just won a major journalism award for investigative stores we did where veterans were not treated properly at the va and were subjected to medical experiments without proper protection that put them at greater risk of mental harm,

aggravating posttraumatic stress disorder. we have a big series coming up in september where we will look for several days a row -- in a row how the government has treated the veterans and there will be eye-popping enjoy dropping revelations about what should be automatic, taking care of soldiers. there are some amazing things that have gone off of the last few years, still going on. we hope to call attention to them at the beginning of september. there are some fairly extraordinary things will learn from the freedom of information act, and interviewing soldiers and their families. while we have written about new orleans we ever extensively about veterans and i think you will see another series in september. host: will you comment what you have learned on your comments -- on her, that people should pick themselves up.

guest: i grew up in an irish catholic family, my aunt would say if i had this great need, just brush it off. but if you are physically injured, your brain can still tell you to go up and go to a hospital but if your brain has lost the ability to comprehend what has gone on, in a world that is not real, psychotic lee -- psychologically altered, we have had people every day who did not know where they were. they thought they were still in the flood waters or thought they saw bodies. we videotaped them. one thing would happen -- when we encounter a mentally ill person, we look down and walk fast past a beard but we wanted to -- what fast. but we wanted to see the torment their going through. is aimed at personified with

the people are. when you look at the camera and see them, you can see their incapacity to deal with themselves. that is why the volunteer of the police unit will do as much as they can to get these people live. it they believe a couple of days of treatment and possible medication -- medication, but possibly pick themselves up and go to outpatient treatment. we talked about the dispute between rehr -- mayor nagin and gov. jindal -- they do have very bad for ideas. mayor nagin believes we need much more inpatient treatment, but close the hospital, gov. jindal'peoples think we need a lot more outpatient because the best way is to give them chronic outpatient treatment, let them heal at home and work with someone who is a professional. it is a very legitimate debate, it goes on in the medical profession and is playing out in louisiana. but the governor and the mayor are acutely aware of what is going on. they tried to get attention to the problem. we hold our story brings their

concerns and the true plight of what is going on to official washington where maybe some help can be constructed. host: that larouche, john, independent line -- baton roug e. caller: this is my second time calling. i appreciate. this is not just new orleans. there is a saying in louisiana, so goes more lanes, so goes the state of louisiana. there is a lot of poverty around the whole state of louisiana. i heard you talking about the veterans. there are a lot of problems veterans are having in louisiana that are not being addressed. and on the other thing, the thing that really bothers me, i've got a picture that i got off the internet, and i saw they had dogs on greyhound buses and

the poor people were on trucks trying to get out of katrina. that is pitiful. for the wealthiest country in the world, to treat people like this simply because of the color of their skin, what is wrong with these people? there was another sign that said louisiana is a good old boys state. these representatives that we have are not being responsive to the people's needs. that is the problem in louisiana. and i would hope that someone would look at what is going on. one of the oldest state in the nation and yet we are one of the poorest. something is wrong in the state of movies and appeared guest: existing you would mention corruption and -- last night there was conviction of former new orleans congressman jefferson on 11 counts of bribery and public corruption. it is interesting that one of the key representatives of new

orleans and aftermath of katrina was accused of engaging in bribery and public corruption at a time when he could be helping his constituents. in that case new orleans has always provided an interesting contrast between the need for attention and help and public representation of new orleans residents and what will you jefferson was alternately convicted of, the democratic representative of new orleans. i think when you talk about the anger and frustration people feel in louisiana, it is like the jefferson case is certainly a flash point to air your frustration. host: detroit, bill, republican line. caller: i would like to ask about the statistics -- before the hurricane, did they have government checks or were they actually working people? guest: good question. i think one of the most dark things we found talking to many of the residents who are now dealing with natomas, that did

not exist before -- there was a poignant story about a gentleman that had a job, two cars, productive family, took his kids to play baseball and after katrina he sat in the bayou staring out in frustration at the water and shot his dog and literally became catatonic, please call and, catatonic four years. we found ally -- a lot of people who were fully functioning a leading productive lives before the treated with ellen to dismantle a list after katrina. new orleans has been famous for dealing with mental list. prior to the storm the estimates was about 15% of new orleans residents dealt with some natomas, extraordinarily high for any part of the country, but when you get to 30% or 44% haughey, that is extraordinary. that means a whole lot of people were just fine before the trend has suddenly moved into the stress and mental illness state, that left them unable to work

and deal with their families and day-to-day life. that is what we experience that was most pointed to reporters and doctors. just everyday people who were functioning who fell apart after katrina and now are sitting on the streets or at home in need of great help. host: we talk a lot with you about what is going on in the news media. the internet -- he vowed he will begin to find a way to charge for all of his on-line content going forward. a lead in to the fact that "the washington times" is growing again. what your plans? guest: about six was ago we started a nationally syndicated radio show, coast-to-coast, called "americas morning news. " it fits into the morning drive time. a lot of stations ran into financial difficult is and they cannot afford the morning drive

themes. it is news oriented, we have major newsmakers. admiral mullen who came in for the interview started his day running into the radio booth and doing some thing for the radio show, which is a reminder of what we are changing. we are no longer just a newspaper company, but a multimedia company. in september we will have a television service, washington times television, for affiliate's who want to take advantage of our investigative reporting and stuff we talked about on the front page. they know orleans packets -- the new orleans package was distributed around the country. and the print edition, we're still working on a plan but i believe you will see "the washington times" in markets outside of washington, virginia, and maryland. there is so much to do and loan spoken about internally within the industry, but as c-span shows every day and i see in our internet figure is growing by leaps and bounds, americans

consume more news information than ever before and all we need to do is make it easier for them to access it wherever they are. . >> jobs for foreigners is the subject of an associated press review that finds a number of petitions from employers trying to bring foreigners to work permanently in the u.s. has declined dramatically over the last two years. the government has received about half as many obligations

-- applications for green cards as in the previous year's spring of the obama administration is preparing a plan to use federal employees to monitor the nation's biggest facilities rather than private contractors. it is part of the switch in policy been announced this morning. continuing her 11-day trip to africa, secretary of state clinton speaking today in kenya says it is that our great -- says it is a great regret that america is not part of the criminal court. it is the first institutionalized to track people for genocide and war crimes when national courts are unable or unwilling. the u.s. formally rejected participation in may 2002. today is the 64th a version of the world's first atomic bomb attack. the mayor of hiroshima is using it to back president obama's call to abolish nuclear weapons.

it was 1945 that the bomb was dropped, killing an estimated 140,000 people. the mayor says that the world should eliminate all nuclear weapons by 2020. those are some of the latest headlines. >> the senate continues debate on the nomination of sonia sotomayor for supreme court justice. follow it live on c-span2, c- span radio, and c-span.org. coming this fall, tour the home to america's highest court, the supreme court. "washington journal quality continues. host: we have a half an hour for your open calls. you can e-mail us and send messages by twitter. "the baltimore sun quality leads today with a piece about the cash for clunkers program.

salvage firms are divided on whether it will provide their businesses anything more than a headache. related to that, the money section here, clicker cash might not run out. it says there's money left from the first $1 billion despite warnings that it would run out by now. the senate said that the amount used for 185,000 rebates have been processed. about 5 million potential buyers are out there eligible to trade in their clunkers for more fuel- efficient cars. but not all those people can afford to buy a new car. he says that demand will begin to slow even if the additional money is approved. there is also a problem of

diminishing supply as many say they are out of the models eligible for the program. let's go to open calls. the first is from texas. caller: i just got down to the hospital recently. health care does need to be reformed. you're looking at one person to cover room, and a $15,000 test. my doctor looked at me twice. after my operation. once was about two minutes, another about four minutes and both times to build $237 and the insurance company paid $211. i think that is exorbitant. if the country would make programs accessible and less expensive, we would have a lot

more doctors in society. in america we go with the supply and demand. host: on the front page your it says that the white house affirms deal on drug costs. this is a david kirkpatrick story.

the next phone call is from joshua tree, california. what are you thinking about today, ed? caller: a couple of things. there appears to be a major abuse of the medical system. it is unprecedented for us to have children on anti- depressants. to see some many people not able to face reality without some chemical crutch, i am reminded of the pioneer days and all the tragedy that they

faced, the absolute annihilation of family members. they kept going. what is it that today we do not seem to be able to pick our ourselves up and keep going? we're so dependent on so many things. host: this is gregory in brooklyn on the independent line. caller: i have a quick comment about the professor dates issue going on in this country over the last week and a half. it is interesting to me as an african-american, may be as american -- i do not want to use that word. the fact that we have our first african-american president, however, he seems now in a position where he cannot speak on many african-american issues because of the does he may get into trouble. he appears to have gotten in

trouble for saying something that was on his mind when the question was asked of him. all presidents i have seen have had a civil rights agenda. the bush administration -- george bush even have some faith-based initiatives. clinton did many things with hiring. this president has no civil rights agenda because it appears to get in trouble with it, will get a spanking if he does something for african-american people. as a black man in this country, i am wondering what the purposes of having an african-american president, or at least having that slogan continually used when it is necessary to be used? this country needs to think about some of the things it does and how it is perceived by the average person.

we are not stupid out here. we realize, you cannot have an african-american president who cannot speak on african-american issues. host: the next call is on the line for democrats, maurciicio. his calling us from chantilly. caller: america, wake up. it is time to remove this government. this government is not for us anymore. it is controlled by someone behind. all the media are controlled by them. something really big it is coming up. the meltdown is coming and it will be really bad. stop voting for democrats and republicans.

vote for somebody else. let's a vote for someone honest with integrity. we do have the power, but we give it to the politicians. this country was not founded on politicians or religions. it was founded on principle. i would like to see our forefathers coming over to see how we are ruled. host: let's go on to the next one from lansing, mich., on the republican line. caller: i would like to give some thought to the expense of health care. there is an old adage with the first pill costs a million dollars and the second costs of a dime. it takes many educated people to come up with a brand new medicine to fight hypertension or diabetes, or whatever.

when everyone don't pay their own sure when you go to the hospital, that is why aspirin costs $25. -- when everyone does not pay their own share. also, on the health care vote, it seems like we're talking of lot about this segment of the population will pay for the amount it costs, or that segment, but ultimately the american consumer will pay. we are in debt of to our eyeballs. if we ensure 50 million more people on government money, where will the money come from? it will be borrowed. we will go bankrupt. host: the front page here. senators are closer to a health package, bipartisan talks move toward the center. in this piece, three democrats

and three republicans from the senate finance committee will brief obama on thursday about their progress. the talks are set to extend through the august recess. negotiators are holding the details close as they continue to debate. it could be a challenge to meet the september 15 deadline set by max baucus. even if the partnership does not result in legislation, democratic leaders are already contemplating ways to preserve much of what it produces as they look to unite the party and pick up republican votes 1 health care moves to the senate floor in the fall. the next phone call is from broken arrow, okla. caller: good morning. host: please hit your move button -- mute button.

caller: i am calling because it is a true blessing to be able to phone c-span. my first question is about our housing crisis. here in oklahoma we have a lot of programs. i would like to become a first- time home buyer. i have never owned a home. i called washington, d.c. yesterday and hoped our president and his beautiful family get a chance to come to oklahoma for town hall meeting here in tulsa, or broken arrow. it is so bad out here with the foreclosure crisis. the pastors here in our great state are doing all they can to hold with their visions to stop the violence. my firstborn son whose name is

ron kirk has been in the military for over 10 years and is now in newark, new jersey. he wants to stay in and keep it as a career with his family. he is having a hard time up there trying to maintain a job. and he is looking for other ways to stay in the military. my hope and what i pray about is that president obama has a lot on his plate. he is a blessed man. i am so happy that he is doing all that he can to do and travel around the globe to promote peace, stop the nuclear processing of weapons, and come to oklahoma. host: thank you, sylvia.

everyone has lots of topics on their minds for open phones. our next guest is with the center for american progress, the director of housing and baceconomics. we will ask him about mortgage foreclosures and the number of loan modifications happening under government programs. speaking of mortgages, "the washington post" has this story. you're looking at the concept of a bad bank and they are looking at a genuine proposal. the u.s. considers remaking mortgage giants. it would wipe the slate clean for fannie mae and freddie mac. it says the obama administration is considering an overhaul that would strip the finance giants of hundreds of billions and troubled loans and create a new structure to support the home loan market.

our next phone call comes from loudon county, va., on the republicans line. caller: thank you so much for having mr. solomon on to talk about the situation in new orleans. no one mentioned the organizations and industry that failed in the lead of two hurricane katrina. the gentleman said we had

suffered worse hurricanes before. this is the first time that new orleans was hit by a category five hurricane. one of the reasons is that the cyprus swamps of south louisiana have been traditionally the buffer between the hurricanes and the city. when i was a child growing up there in new orleans it was 100 miles upriver from the gulf. now we have a situation where oil was discovered in those swamps. the oil industry's refused to put in any buffers as they dug their channels to get their tankers to their rigs. when salt water gets to the roots of the cyprus trees which are all that holds the lands together in those areas, those trees die.

the three southernmost parishes which is with the cobb counties and louisiana have lost over half of their land area and the last 50 years. host: elizabeth, how howould you like to summarize this? caller: the army corps of engineers did not supervise the levy in a poor part of new orleans properly has responsibility as does big oil. big oil has big responsibility and the fact that a hurricane of this size could reach new warrants. host: banks, and a next call is from new orleans, lands on the republican line. caller: thank you for focusing a little on those of us down here who have been forgotten. i need to clarify some

intermission been disseminated in for good. my 81-year-old mother -- the little insurance money she had was held for 22 months by wells fargo. she has received no federal assistance i myself am still in a fema trailer and i can i get the elevation money. since i'm turning 48 years old, i realize remembering betsy and camille, that in my lifetime the opportunity not as well as my mother's to get our share of minerals and oil rights, but the rest of the country seemed to view us as something that could be cast aside. we lost six properties, 10 addresses in our 50-plus year business. i had in the three years, not

four years, three years of working after going through 36 adjusters and being shortchanged by the insurance companies. i have pushback and restored my great-grandmothers 1918 properties and that of two great aunts', but we cannot even get them rented because there is a push to make 25% of new orleans section eight. when you look to the demographics to qualify for the the person who called in, be amended states in 2000 was 69% white, 12% african-american. new ones was 26% what, 66% black. in the broadmoor area where we lived it was 25% white, but 60% black. i hate to say this, but since

sonia sotomayor had her ruling overturned by the supreme court but they are pushing her through, no one wants to commit that in my lifetime there has been reverse discrimination going on since i graduated from tulane university and after working at a university in the midwest i was told that i should apply to work at loyola university and i asked why? they said that if you were a black female lesbian with north -- native american blood you would be hired to fill a quota. for some reason, we are becoming the waste basket of the country. host: we are running out of time. next up is a call from temple hills, on the independent line. caller: it is nezzie. i am calling with regard to the

health care. we need to do something with medicare, medicaid, and social secured. if we want to expand our government-run health care, then perhaps we can add something onto medicaid and medicare. and not for public option may go i believe we are capitalistic society and our health insurance companies' although they need to be reined in, we need to do something with regard to them. i am for being able to transport health care and i think the president is on the right track with that. with regard to illegal immigration and health care -- no. i am sick and tired of paying for the world. i have to refer to the young black man who referred to president obama not having any interest in the black community. there's nothing wrong with it. he should address our issues. every time that we say black he says latina.

we have donna edwards, our congresswoman will have a town hall meeting today starting at 4:00 p.m. at the library. i know you have not heard anything about it because i have not. we need to talk to her about why she is not supporting the black community. the only thing she seems to support is illegal emigration. i do not get it, susan, but thanks for letting me have my cigna i hope that we can get to the town hall meeting to speak with our congresswoman to find out why she is doing what she is doing. i don't know who the naacp and black caucus are representing. host: cape cod, ivan, on the line for democrats. caller: good morning, you are my favorite c-span host. like rodney dangerfield used to say, you do not get the respect you should. you are the longest-running c-

span host and i think that you are terrific, the best. host: things, that usually comes with a one-two punch. caller: the others have a long way to go to catch up. it is a full moon and you're doing is crazy rantings. i love c-span on a full moon. so, here goes. host: we are ready. caller: fox news, it seems when anyone gets run out of washington on a rail, karl rove, and so many more, they end up on fox news as an analyst. i find that kind of amusing. i wanted to talk about the health-care battle. fox news is in full war mode. i just hope that people can see through their tactics and all this nonsense where they are having these phony people

interrupt meetings about health care. it is orchestra. it comes from corporations who make billions of money on medical care. i am and uber-capitalist. i had my first business at 15 years old when i was in high school. i have gone on the whole entrepreneurial trip and i am a catalyst. but when it comes to medical care i disagree with pure, unbridled capitalism. you cannot say to people, you are sick and we have the bill you need. it will cost you, though. you ask how much and they say how much do you have? that is our system now. it is not right. capitalism is great and i hope we keep it. it made as a great country. but when it comes to medical care we need to do something a little different. there must be regulation and control. what we have got now is not working. fox news and those silly propagandist people on fox news

-- i hope they do not fool the american people as they have so many times. they are just the mouthpiece of big corporations who will bring our country down. host: we have to go. we appreciate your calls from open phones. our next guest is from the center for american progress and we will talk about the federal programs that encourage modification of your home loans going into foreclosure. we will get the current statistics. ♪ >> this morning at 10:00 a.m.,

the senate continues its debate on sonia sotomayor for the supreme court justice with a vote expected at 3:00 p.m. eastern. following a live on the various c-span outlets were you can see a tally of health centers said they will vote. coming this fall, enter the home of america's highest court, the supreme court. >> all this month, revisit the fares and festivals we have visited. panels from the key west literary seminar and the annapolis book festival. >> the phenomenon of facebook. the best-selling author on the success of this social networking site and how it tore two best friends apart. part of the weekend programming on ."

>> this author of the whitewater hearings and his column on 9/11, sunday night. "washington journal quality continues. host: good morning. i have my big cup of coffee here. let me introduce our next guest. he belongs to a progressive think tank here in washington, d.c. we will focus on the new report coming out. is this the first? guest: it is the first of several monthly reports on the home modification program. host: what did we learn from the first one? guest: it has been slow to start. even ratings on the curve there is a big disparity among top performers. one has done 25% of eligible

mortgages. you have others doing only 15%. toward the bottom after the steep drop-off you have bank of america and wells fargo at only 6%. we need to figure out what is causing the wide gap. host: let's put the basics back on the table with this program. what is a call? guest: making home affordable. you can go to the website by the same name. it is the making home affordable loan modification program. if people run into problems they call their lender and said that they would like a modification. the servicer will figure out how much the house is worth, how much you can pay. the point is to get your monthly payments down to 31% of your income. host: how much money was set aside for this and how was it used?

guest: a small part has arden said aside and there are several pieces to this. there is a substantial payment to the servicer for each that is modified. there are annual payments as long as the lone stays carving up the barr also gets money toward payments -- the borrower also gets some money for up to five years to make towards their payments. to arrive at 31% of income, the servicer will reduce it to 30%, and then the government will split the difference. -- the servicer will reduce it to 38%. host: what is the estimated universe of foreclosed homeowners who might be eligible? guest: the administration

projects 3 to four million homeowners. the numbers have gotten worse as the economy has gotten worse. assuming that unemployment peaks at 10%, we assume about 9 million homes over the next four years. host: from my reading i have been reminded that there are about four companies who have the bulk of all the mortgages. what are they? guest: j.p. morgan chase it is the largest. you have citibank at the low end. in the middle you have wells fargo. bank of america is the largest, j.p. morgan chase, citibank, and wells fargo. host: of those who are processing the most, and to the

least? guest: j.p. morgan jay's doing 20% of their pool. citibank at 15%, and at the low end you have bank of america and wells fargo. host: what are those last two telling treasury? guest: nothing yet. they probably are some that they're working on it and ramping id of. it is interesting that there were both before congress a couple of weeks ago and both testified that the radically increased their staffing since this time last year and were really trying to target all of they're eligible borrowers. the said some were ineligible, and another 15% did not qualify. of their loans they think about

55% are potentially eligible. so, that we have only seen six% of that done is not very encouraging. host: here is a commentary piece from the philadelphia paper. the author is a managing partner of the new york investment bank. the headline is that banks must be pushed to deal with bad mortgages. he explains the accounting and reserve issues. let me have you comment after i read it. banks typically lose money by for closing them buy it renegotiating the principle of a loan. as time went off and run 12 up to 18 months, the loss takes far longer to show up on their balance sheets. as a result, banks are pushing the mess and attendant losses well into 2010 while they maintain the fiction that bar waorrowers will be able to repay

loans in full. fearing for their own solvency, banks instead are stockinsockiny enormous reserves. guest: there are two pieces. how much do you lose in foreclosure?

let's say you lose $200,000 and it has not fallen to $150,000 -- that is the maximum you can now expect. because the bank has taken the title it will take them quite a while with all the homes in the market to unload the property at anything other than a fire sale price. so, there is the question of the magnitude of the loss and he is also touching on the timing of the loss. that banks need to reserve money against these losses and yet do not necessarily have to book the losses in public accounting until they are ready to take them. from that perspective, because they are not realizing those losses, they have to maintain funds against them. that limits the amount of money available for lending. to the extent everyone says we

need to solve the housing crisis, that is true. host: we just saw good earnings reports from banks in the last quarter. it might suggest the accounting sheets have done this. guest: yes, there is a lot of flexibility in terms of when they can choose to take those losses. host: let's go to a caller from coconut grove, fla.. caller: yes, andrew, what is your 1-800 number? i want to say if we are disabled, retired, and have a high mortgage i need to speak to someone. host: that is great. it is a good question to ask. his organization does not do it, but you can put people in touch. guest: the best place to call is 1-88--hope.

you can also check out the website for the government which has several members have and can help you determine your eligibility. another place is for hud- approved counselors at hud.gov. it has intermission on local councilors. they can work with you. -- it has intermission on local councilors. they can look at your budgeting and help you to figure your best course of action. host: is that a better first stop then immediately calling your mortgage lender? guest: to the extent you want to make sure that you have your ducks lined up before you ask of the mortgage lender, it is a good idea. but if you are facing notices of

foreclosure and have other threatening letters, i would make the call to the servicer first. i would tell them i'm working on this and ask for their assistance. host: las vegas, the republican line. caller: just recently we called bank of america and ask ed for the modification. guest: the modification program. caller: apparently, we answered all the wrong answers to their questions and did not fit into them all. we have the savings and checking account. the checking account is depleted. my husband who is a plumber has been unemployed for about three months. i am a hairdresser. the numbers to not add up between the net and gross numbers.

we want to pay our line. she said to call back tomorrow. i do not know the answers they want. we are trying to be honest. we are not sitti -- we are not g into the mold. can you help me? guest: yes, it is definitely a black box and greater transparency is needed to let people know how they might qualify. i understand your frustration. i would call back. depending on who you get at the other end of the line, the answers you get can be different. but the truth is, they should not ask about your checking or savings account, or anything other than your income. the program is specific as to what the input that the model they use to figure eligibility are. they include your fico score,

unfortunately, which is often not entirely correct. there will look at your house price and income, and then figure out if you qualify. but i would call them back. i would call a local housing counselor to see if they can help you. people definitely want to stay in their homes. people are scratching to make mortgage payments. help is available in many instances. it is a matter of getting banks to agree to the contract they have already signed. host: the lead story here says that the rate of owning homes is plunging. the rector says that the rate of homeownership is forecast to keep tumbling in the next decade.

this message from twitter follows. guest: the truth is that foreclosure is incredibly costly, not only to the homeowners and to the investors and bankers, but as foreclosures rise local property values decline significantly. your never my go into foreclosure and that will cause you to feel a significant hit on your home. if you need to move for job of virginia, you will not get what you paid for your house out of it. it is at great cost to many parties. and you think about that across the board, local property taxes will have to rise to meet the demand for local services. with less value in those homes as tax revenues are tied to their values, the rates will have to rise.

if we can keep people in their homes we can prevent this glut on the housing market. it comes at a high social cost. yes, foreclosure is an option for some. but most want to stay in their homes. host: atlanta, good morning, on the independent line. caller: fine, thanks. i am a consumer activist. this man, i think, is very misleading. the media, i think, is fundamentally undermining our whole country. i personally work with it% of these companies for clients. you have people on the funds or not even qualify to take the calls from homeowners.

they are incompetent and often just choose to foreclose because they do not understand their job duties. homeowners are not being educated. there are laws on the books now. some of the people running mortgages should be in jail. we are not processing our laws. it is said. homeowners should not have lost their homes because there are laws to protect them. how can you tell people up there, then i did a third party to help you? you would not go into a courtroom and represent yourself. that is crazy. find someone who is qualified to help. people, stop listening to the media. we are under attack. host: let me interrupt you.

with this passion working, let's get an answer from our guest. guest: while servicers have met their capacity and even though they have a ramp up their staff, they're not particularly well-qualified. i do not think they should foreclose on a new one until they have affirmatively determined that the barr were is ineligible for the program. -- and to tell thoseborrowe -- l those borrowers have been proven ineligible. the program is working well in philadelphia. connecticut and nevada have both implemented it. if you can just give both sides to talk -- we hear over and over again, that you send documents

and they say they never got them. if you go to mediation there is a third-party there to ask what documents are needed to make it work. you also require the service are to provide the information of how much is owed and what fees and services they arbitrarily tacked on that were not eligible to be put there. bringing people together is a real solution me of your right. the capacity is not there yet. host: related to that, money to help homeowners go and abusers pockets. mortgage servicers are accused of preying on people they're supposed to help. these companies are middlemen who collect monthly payments from homeowners and funnel money to banks or investors.

this of research are paid by the government to keep homeowners from falling behind 4 least three months. but they have a checkered history. at least 30 servicers have been accused in lawsuits of harassing bar worse. more recently, companies have also been criticized for not helping homeowners quickly enough. -- they have been accused in losses of harassing borrowers. guest: it is a huge problem and gets back to capacity. we need to see bigger sticks and all this. the bad actors should be severely punished for these activities. under the program the fees they are allowed to pass on into modified loans are only those that returned to investors.

suddenly, there are compliance issues that need to be addressed in the entire process. people wrongfully denied, people given incorrect information. flagging those people before they get further into debt is crucial. caller: thank you, i detected last month of bias and i'm glad to see you have a more center or leftist organization on this morning. yesterday there was a news report on deutsche bank that projected by 2012 that 48% of all u.s. mortgages will be under water. host: is that 48%? caller: yes, bush a bank said that many by 2012 are projected

to be under water -- that is a door to bang. for me there are three problems. -- that is due to a bank that said 48%. the banks are not willing, they're not willing to ride on the principle. my understanding is that these banks cannot really tell you which they are adjusting that actual principle of. they are not able or are unwilling to write down principles. there were so many homes that sold for $300,000 that were only worth $200,000. they want be worth more than 2 minutes thousand dollars for another 10 years. the banks and not willing to adjust down. -- there will not be worth more than $200,000 for another 10

years. the banks do not want to do this now. they are holding money which is causing the credit crisis to worsen. all these small businesses are going out of business as a result. the banks have bad assets on their boats and will not write them down. host: that mirrors the story that we read earlier. guest: you are absolutely right in terms of the principal balance right down. the bank says ok, at this is no only worth $150,000 as opposed to $200,000. they have created a waterfall. principal reductions would go further towards alleviating, i agree. there is an effort to match the

homeowner modification program with hope for homeowners, the earlier initiative which transfers the mortgage from the existing holder and refinances based on the current value. it then converts it into a fha mortgage. the investors get whatever they will out of the mortgage today and are free to reimbursreinvesd fannie mae secured. but you get to the homeowner out from under their problems of being under water the interesting thing is that the investors more and more are coming down on the side of principal balance production. they do not want the risk long term. they decide to take the losses today and move ford. to let you know, on american

progress action fund, the website, we had senator durban over on monday. he spoke about some of these issues. we had a panel with different experts. you can watch the video where they discuss these issues in the till. host: here is a message from twitter. guest: million-dollar homes are not modified. you might be eligible, but is subject to many unknowns in the model. host: the next question comes from washington on the republican line. caller: hello, how are you, c- span? i personally have experienced four family members, one of which is my mother when my father died. all of them have loans through

countrywide. it happened prior to this huge housing disaster. i personally saw paperwork involving countrywide credit would not take late payments to get caught up, one payment at a time. they wanted it all at once. all the loans made through countrywide -- they had appraisers cannot and over- appraise. i have a three grandchildren with families, who have that three children each. they are getting foreclosed on. they all make good incomes. but they are upside-down in their mortgages. they are all dealing with countrywide. given the facts on countrywide and their illegal actions -- it is borrower beware. you get young families who are

looking for the good life and they make a good income -- this happens to them. i agree that these people should be punished. as far as the intermission coming today on c-span about this -- and has not happened. -- as far as the intermission. this is a small fishing village. we're watching high-raises. -- as far as thisinformation out today on c-span. these are all minority people. we cannot build on this. host: i would jump in. guest: you are right. the fact that house values have fallen is a large driver, both of the problems we have, as well as a reflection of those problems. it is a negative spiral. i would encourage them to reach out to countrywide who are in

the program. if values have declined and they did tonight, i would challenge, asking for specific documentation. but when most people get enough for modification, you do not get a letter explaining exactly why. it simply says, sorry, you are not eligible and we will proceed with foreclosure. because it yourfico score goes into it, it seems that the fair reporting act would require them to give you details. the appraised value of the home goes into that model. i would try to read-apply if you can provide documentation. an appeals process for the program is critical. if you have that intermission going in the cannot expect good

info coming out. caller: how are you doing? i had heart surgery and a severe blockage. i had a bypass about 11 months ago. i'm 61 years old and probably can never work again. i'm trying to get disability. my mortgage company is wells fargo. three months ago i knew that we were getting into trouble because we were paying bills from savings. we took my wife 401k because it was losing. wells fargo said it would help on a hardship alone. that was three months ago. they said first would take three weeks, then six weeks. it kept on. to date they still have not said that they will help me. they keep saying they are working on it.

their customer service people have lied several times. you cannot get above the customer service the permit to complain to anyone else in that corporation. it is frustrating. host: let's find out how common this experiences. guest: unfortunately, it is all too common. we hear this from many folks. the call in their promises. the person you call to follow up with has never heard of it. you give form letters back. -- useget form letters back. -- you get form letters back. wells fargo has 1600 people and their department. apparently that is not enough. i do not know where their problem is. it is certainly pressure them.

continue to call. the job to a local housing council. see if they can help to get through. if you can, find a local attorney ,pro bono. simply to get what they have promised you. if you have written documentation saying wells fargo will offer you the following -- that is the kind of thing they should be made to make good on their word for. host: jerry? caller: sir, i would like you to address the healthcare issue in the country with the 45 million people who do not have health care. understand president obama, what he is trying to do with this program, is that he is not trying to take away, for instance, people who already have insurance. host: let me interrupt.

we're not talking about health care in this segment of our guest is an expert on housing policy. let me turn to question by twitter here to get back on topic. it is a comment that suggests we are repeating our mistakes of the past. how would you respond to her? guest: we cannot all own houses. it is important that we maintain a good stock of rental housing for those. but the answer to do nothing is not the correct response, either. because of the high cost of foreclosure -- to the system as a whole, to lenders, and to neighbors, the option of doing nothing is not the correct path

to take. if we want to learn from history, which a look at the high rates of default during the depression when the established institutions who refinanced and gave a sustainable mortgage, and paid off investors with long- term corporate bonds -- we're moving to that type of model under hope for homeowners, and under the new modification program. . .

host: lots more on the center for american progress' website, and -- guest: makinghomeaffordable.gov. host: we have two guests at ahead. daniel hannan, a member of the british parliament, here to talk to the heritage foundation. and then our final guest is senator ben cardin from maryland. >> the number of newly laid-off workers seeking unemployment insurance fell last week. initial claims for jobless benefits shot dropped to 550,000 for the week. it is lower than analysts' estimates. the four-week average for claims dropped to 555,000, the lowest

level since late january. more on today's vote on it judged sonia sotomayor to the supreme court did three republicans who announced they will support the nominate are not seeking reelection bid they are kit bond, the senator from missouri, judd gregg from new hampshire, and mel martinez from florida. the final vote is scheduled for 3:00 p.m. today. secretary of state hillary clinton is traveling in africa and visited a memorial today at the side of the former embassy in the kenyan capital to honor the victims of the 1998 al qaeda-linked attacks on the american embassies in kenya and tanzania a day before the 11th anniversary of the bombings that killed more than 200 people. federal regulators are ordering safety adjustments to the fuel tanks of more than 400 boeing

767's registered in the united states. the order is one in a series of steps taken in recent years to prevent the possible ignition of the vapours inside fuel tanks. this in response to the 1996 explosion of twa flight 800 off the coast of new york's long island. while lawmakers are in their home districts for the august break, renovations are under way in the house chamber. workers will install two new some reports, and a hydraulic lift to allow those with disabilities access to the rostrum. it is the first house chamber renovation in 10 years. those are the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> "washington journal" continues. host: last april, a video of the member of the european parliament who was angry about policy made it to youtube and became a vital success, viewed by more than 2 million viewers around the world we will take a look at a clip of that just to

remind you of that. we will introduce you to daniel hannan, who is here from great britain. he is a member of the european parliament. he will be talking in the united states. we will introduce him and take some calls from him about lessons that the u.s. to learn from europe. >> prime minister, you cannot carry on for ever squeezing the productive bit of the economy in order to fund an unprecedented endorsement of the unproductive bit. you cannot spend your way out of recession or borrow your way out of debt. when you repeat, in that wooden and perfunctory way, that our situation is better than others, that we are well placed to weather the storm, i have to tell you, you sound like a brezhnev-era apparatchiks giving the party line. you know, and we know, and you know that we know that it's nonsense. everyone knows that britain is worse off than any other country as we go into these hard times. the imf has said so, the

european commission has said so, the markets have said so, which is why our currency has devalued by 30%, and soon, the voters, too, will get their chance to say so. they can see what the markets have already seen, that you are the devalued prime minister of a devalued government. host: those remarks were addressed to prime minister gordon brown, who has an election campaign coming up. i was shocked by the fact that you picked up on a headline in "-- i was struck by the fact that you picked up in a headline in "newsweek" this week that britain is finished we are britain's best days behind it? guest: this and things were written at the end of the last labour government. there was a headline in "the wall street journal" saying "so long, great britain, it was nice

knowing you." we had spent the money, and to our treasury, exhausted our credit. look how quickly we can turn things around we were months away from the thatcher renaissance. people still argue about the general legacy of the thatcher ism, but no one disputes that she turned the economy around and made a prosperous again. i'm quite an optimist. when something goes wrong, you can fix it. host: are the structural issues with the meltdown in the financial institutions that make it more challenging? guest: i don't think of the financial crisis in itself is more challenging. i think the government response has created more problems than it has solved. host: how so? guest: the crisis was caused by the fact that interest rates were too low for too long. it happened here with the fed, it happened with the central bank, happened in japan.

it was a political rather than market failure. in responding to it, we have now burdened our citizens and their children with these colossal debt levels that will be with us well after the immediate crisis has passed. this idea that you get out of the mess by stimulating the economy, pumping money into it, where does that come from? we had the g-20 summit and said they are pumping $1 trillion into the economy. where do you get the $1 trillion if not from the world economy? it does not come from mars. they are taking money in taxes come out of people's pockets, and spend it on their behalf. if that were more efficient way of organizing resources, we would have lost the cold war and we would be having this interview in russia. host: one thing that seems to be different is that in the past, individual countries or regions have had economic hardships. this is a global situation.

talk a little bit about how the world, the global economy, it really finds its way back from where we are right now. guest: i would have thought the most obvious thing to do is to lessen the burden on people. if you want to stimulate the economy, stop taking so much money from the bridge to the exact opposite of what the british and american governments have done, which is to raise taxes and borrowing to increase budgets. we know -- no one disputes this -- the budget is spent by the state are less efficacious spent that much is spent by the individual. the idea that this will get us out of the mess -- i don't think that it is good, serving a gun, tax reasons, nationalization, -- almost everything that we have done, tax raises, nationalization, has been at best neutral, and at worst will serve to exacerbate the problem. host: introduce yourself to our audience. how did you decide to run for european parliament, and what

did you do before that? guest: i was a journalist for 12 years could very happy years. it is a good job that you have. the biggest thing for us in britain is this european question. it is literally a historic question b. politicians are always describing things as a historic choice or opportunity. but in the correct sense of the word, 100 years, 200 years from now, historians, when they look back at 2009, there will notice whether britain remained a separate country or merged ourselves into a bigger country called europe. given the magnitude of that choice, the epic importance of it, i thought i better get involved. that is why i went for the european parliament. host: explain when britain is going to make that choice. guest: well, we would love to

have a referendum. one of the biggest issues in the british political scene at the moment is that all three big parties in britain fought the last general election on the basis that it would be a referendum on the next stage of transferring power to the european union. two of the parties then renege d. they knew they would lose it, because there had been no votes in france or the netherlands were everywhere else. my party is now saying that if we get in in time. if we win the next election, then we will hold the referendum with all three parties promised. the matter could come to a head quickly. host: how stable is the european union itself? are other countries rethinking their membership? guest: yes. the situation is that the people running at are incredibly

attached to it, because it is a question of livelihood, not ideology. it has lost public support of several separate -- public support almost everywhere else. we now find out that whenever anyone is given the chance to vote, they vote no. in norway, switzerland, iceland, sweden and denmark, france, they always vote no on any issue to do with european integration. kind of reminds me of the lake -- the era of eastern europe in the 1980's. no one believed in the system anymore. but there were an awful lot of people who understood that their place in society depended on at the maintenance of the status quo, and that is why it is a difficult thing to shift. but there comes a moment where

public opinion asserts itself, and i'm fairly optimistic that at some stage in the not too distant future, people will vote to be sovereign, independent countries again. host: you are speaking at the heritage foundation. what is the major message you want to leave with american audiences? guest: not to devalue your chief in. on a division of your founders -- honor the vision of your founders. yours and my version is 11 pages long. the european version is 576 pages. yours is mainly about the rights of the individual breed. in one is mainly about the powers of the state. -- the european one is mainly about the powers of the state with the american one is about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. ours is about strike action, affordable housing, and free health care.

and the u.s. constitution, as i understand it, came into force only after it had been separately ratified by specially elected convections. -- conventions. the european constitution has been rejected three times at the ballot box and is being implemented anyway. don't take for granted to democracy, the accountable government you appear. it is human nature to be blase about what has been familiar all your life. but the dispersed, jeffersonian, accountable model of democracy is a unique and precious thing, and you should think long and hard before going down this european road health care and social maturity. host: phil, republican line. caller: good morning. how are you? i guess i have a question at the end of this, but as i am looking at america now, we are creating a situation where in order to

solve problem a, we are creating problems b, and then when that pops up, we will create problem c for that. our national debt is extended to the point -- i think in the president's budget, it is up to the 2019, were 60% of gdp is our debt, into the trillions and trillions of dollars. what kind of high-minded do we have to turn this around? what is the point of no return? were you you could do nothing but just collapse? guest: you are right about the debt levels. a trillion here, a chilean there, and pretty soon you're talking real money. -- a trillion here, trillion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money. we are in and accordingly deeper bass. it is going to take years to pay

this debt off. anyone who pretends that there is a quick fix is lying to you. my children are going to spend most of their lives paying off gordon brown's debt, and american children will be indented under what has happened under this presidency for a long time but that does not mean you do not start. at the very least, turn off the tap, and then you can worry about bailing out the tub. the great danger for conservatives is being too pessimistic about everything. i am fundamentally optimistic about this. i am -- i have great confidence in the common sense of the american people, who've never wanted these bailouts. i think there is a general understanding among the population that there will need to be a constraint of spending, and the quicker that begins, the better for everybody. host: memphis, sheila, democrats line.

caller: from what i've been listening to on c-span, and listening to the congressional meetings that day of that, they have not stated -- that it would take time but all the the republicans have said -- everything the republicans have said has not been true, from what i have been listening to grid that could is there is c- span did you conceive the honest truth of things. i wanted to note, mr. hannan, when you stated that the prime minister was acting or sounding like an apparatchiks. what is and apparatchiks? -- what is and apparatchik? guest: do you remember when the soviet union was still there, he would occasionally get these party spokesman, would wear bad suits and on smiling faces and

would reach out whatever the soviet union line was. there were in afghanistan to promote democracy against american tax or whatever it was. the point of it was that the people saying that in the soviet communist party did not expect anyone to believe that it it just felt that they had to say it. them the apparatchiks were -- the apparatchiks were members of the ruling bureaucracy. i was a bit teasing gordon brown, because he has one of those unsmiling faces and has a slight 1970's air about him. but he was saying things that nobody could believe. you could see the plumes of smoke billowing from his pants as he was saying them. i hope that what i ended up saying, was that the people had seen through him, is now clear. the last test of your opinion -- last test of public opinion

in the u.k., the labor party got 15% of the vote. for a party of government to get down to 15% -- i would like to think that my countrymen have understood the need to change and that we could begin the process of national revival. host: in addition to the millions of and use that that video got on youtube, what else has happened because of it? guest: spending more time in the u.s., which is nice. in my real interest right now is to bring back to the u.k. some of the really good ideas that we exported to your founding fathers -- lower taxes, constrain government, the legislature properly controlling the executive, the idea that taxes should not be raised except by elected representatives, loss should not be passed without the consent -- laws should not be passed without popular consent.

unfortunately, they have been forgotten in the mother country. it is like that seen in "mr. smith goes to washington," baugher these were really english patrons as well and it is time we repatriate our revolution. host: michael, independent line. caller: good morning, mr. hannan but i would like to extend my total respect and god bless you, sir. guest: thank you very much . caller: you or a statesman and a patriot. a politician will compromise what he does and does not fear god. a statement does what is right in fierce god. you, sir, and i are statesmen and patriot. that is a complement, and i stand for everything you are saying. our constitution has been abridged, has been violated, a

laws have been broken. and we the people have not had a say in all of this legislation that has been passed through the night, and we've been violated of our due process. again, sir, your voice and your moxie in your heart and passion for love of country, i commend you and respect you very much. keep up the good work, god bless you and your family. guest: you are far too generous about me, but thank you all the same. when i was looking at jefferson's statute, i fancied that i could hear some clanking noises. i thought that maybe this was that shade of your third president rattling this change. having built the country on the idea of dispersed power, that legislators should be answerable and the government should be constrained by the people, that he is now seeing this huge engorgement of the state, not only in the bailouts and nationalization, but the health-care proposal -- this is making america less american.

everyone in the world was a friend of this country it should be concerned that any measure that makes your country less prosperous and independent. host: saratoga, republican line. caller: i echo everything the prior caller said. when you say that they are saying the same things -- gordon brown, obama -- saying things that everybody knows is not true, we must look at the fact that they know what they're doing. they are status. they don't like the founding fathers. they think they're a bunch of old white man did the people speaking out in town meetings are having their pictures taken because we have legislators here that say that we must investigate these people. the very things that brought obama into power are the things that are destroying america abroad what he is trying to accuse the people of america of doing, to try to get our power back, to try to have our voices

heard, we are now having our pictures taken to try to chill us. you are very ethical and everything, but the fight is lost, because these people at the top that were put in by corrupt -- everything is correct. they brought chicago, illinois, the worst politics in the world into the white house. host: thank you. let's get a response. guest: i may lose a bit of respect, but i will not come on this program and the disobliging under president no friend of america that wants your president to fail. i wonder president to succeed. wanting him to succeed hopes -- means hoping that he will learn from the mistakes, learn from the failure of our health care model, from the failure of the expansion of the state that has happened in europe, and i don't believe that he is a product of

corruption. i think he's doing his best, according to his own lights, and we should always be prepared to acknowledge the people we disagree with our acting from sincere in paycheck motives even if we think they are wrong. i would appeal to supporters -- it's your and patriotic motives even if we think they are wrong but i would appeal to supporters of the health care just to ponder the way the state as an act so much of the economy -- has annexed so much of the economy. nobody had seen that the banking crisis was going to interfere. it might have been possible to get away with this at a time of rising prosperity and high income and tax revenues. but a time like this, when the government has already nationalized so much of the private sector, i wonder if the u.s. can afford this for the

expansion of state power. host: jacksonville, florida, democrats line. caller: that last comment that she just made -- a lot of people do not appreciate obama. i just want to say that our health care plan -- socialize toward single-payer plan or whenever -- people think they have to die because they cannot afford health insurance. they have cancer or whatever. host: thank you. guest: i am sure that there are improvements that can be made to the american health-care system, as with any help your system in the world.

there is no such thing as perfection in this light i think, but my ideas and you can come up with yours about how this can be made cheaper and more efficient. i would caution against adopting a system that hasn't visibly worse outcomes -- has visibly worse outcomes than yours does at the moment. people in europe thought they were doing the right thing and making it more accessible and all of it. but we now have a situation where our survival rates, if we become ill, or demonstrably worse than they are in the u.s. if you get breast cancer in the u.k., you have a one in four chance of being killed by it in five years. in the u.s., you have a 0% chance. same with prostate cancer, heart disease, strokes. the statistics are perilously clear. he would rather fall ill in the u.s. than in -- you would rather

fall ill in the u.s. than in the u.k. i hope people of good will in all parties on both sides of the aisle work on those things. but i caution you against the idea that a state takeover is part about solution. there is almost no crisis in the world so severe that it cannot be exacerbated by government intervention. host: connecticut, independent line. caller: hi, susan, you are my favorite also agreed i heard people say that earlier. i noticed that the other host -- not this man, daniel, not him -- but let a lot of biased people go on and on, and then when an intelligent color goes off, they cut them off. i noticed this morning has been monopolized by a lot of conservatives.

i'm happy to see this man, he seems very nice. he seems more balanced than others. but if unfettered capitalism works, which, since reagan -- well, nixon started privatisation of madison, -- privatization of medicine, made a profit. , and in the rea -- made a prof. , and then the reagan era, and we are in the great recession. and democracy for man -- democracy demands truth. whether you are left or right, we need truth but i heard other callers said -- he was the price president of sigma for 20 years. very knowledgeable man. and now he is a whistle-blower.

host: caller, i apologize, we have one minute left. do you have anything in that call you would like to respond to? guest: on the point about capitalism not working, i think it is an oversimplification that the financial crisis was a result of absence of regulation. that leaves out a lot of things that are an important part of the picture. as recently as last year, congress was instructing fannie mae and freddie mac to make more cheap loans available. you can identify legislation going back to the clinton and carter presidency'ies which encouraged what became the subprime crisis. and more importantly than that, the decision to hold interest rates down for too long to keep the boom times going artificially was a political rather than a market decision. this is as much a failure of government and regulation as of anything else. i think it's a little bit simplistic to say that somehow

the banking crisis devalued the free market. host: last question, nebraska, republican line. caller: i think this englishmen likes the constitution where the oil, is that 7% of the oil, and we are in the wasting of money on wars. that is what is ruining everybody, these stupid wars. guest: yes, i am not a big supporter of wars in general. the wonderful phrase about marriage, you should only do soberly and reverently and in fear of god. i was not a supporter of the iraq war, although i thought we needed to have a presence in afghanistan.

they found a nest of terrorist bases and what they reasonably assumed were people preparing to attack the united kingdom but i think you can make a case that attacking the taliban members of al qaeda was in the interests of peace and democracy. but i was not a big supporter of the iraq war. i think wars -- nobody should rush into these things. the cost of the big, aggressive foreign policy in the u.s., as with any other country, is diminishing of freedom at home and expansion of the state. under the contingency of fighting, the government sees a loss of powers of citizens. i do not say those things as a pacifist. i'm glad that your country allied with ours to defeat

naziism. but it does not follow from that you should go swaggering into any military action. host: you are a regular blogger. guest: www.hannan.co.uk. host: thank you for being here. we have half an hour left, and we will talk to senator cardin. we will be right back. >> this morning at 10:00, the

senate continues its debate on the nomination of the sonia sotomayor for supreme court justice. follow it live on c-span2, c- span radio, and c-span.org, where you can see a tally of how senators will vote. this fall, enter the home of america's highest court, the supreme court. sunday, a look at british politics from the bbc, including the anmp expenses scandal and the debate over military operations in afghanistan. sunday night, 9:00 eastern and pacific on c-span. sunday, the future of the conservative movement, with a fund-raiser from richard viguerie. >> sunday, frank rich reflects on 15 years of political columns in "the new york times,"

including his piece on the future of the internet in 1995, and his column following 9/11. >> "washington journal" continues. host: senator ben cardin from maryland, our final guest today. your photograph is all over the papers this morning. we will show "will call" first -- we are having a hard time with the camera -- you are standing with jack reed and max baucus, and in both cases, everyone is smiling. what is going on in that room? guest: it is the day before recess, so that maybe while we -- why we are smiling. we are talking about health care reform. we are making a lot of progress. americans are starting to understand that the status quo is unacceptable. the cost of health care is rising and people are losing their benefits. in maryland, it costs about

$11,000 for a family plan, private insurance. that is scheduled to increase in the next 10 years, projected to be $23,000. every day in maryland, a couple of people lose their health insurance. americans are rightly concerned that we get it right. we were talking about how to inform our constituents over august about what is in health care reform. host: what are the aspects of it that are so important to you, the costs of getting it right? guest: preserving the individual's right to maintain health insurance, predictability that what it will be there in the future. we cannot allow continued escalation of health care expenses as it is going today. providing protection for hot -- for private insurance. making sure that companies cannot underwrite or be discriminating against you

because of pre-existing conditions, that they need to cover the wellness programs, so that they are affordable. these types of protections need to be in insurance reform. host: how should it be financed? guest: that is a great question. ultimately, it needs to bring down the cost of health care. but you need to invest to get that done. the largest part of paying for it is within the health-care system itself, by bringing down costs, getting rid of allab tess that are not needed, those types of things to bring the system more cost-effective. the second way is to try to look at ways that we can pay for it in the short term, provide the long-term financial stability of the system. host: headline in "the wall street journal," " sen. enzi

want to rush into health care deal." how important is bipartisanship? guest: i think it is very important. we will have a better bill if democrats and republicans work together. this is not a partisan problem. it's a problem our nation confronts. i hope we have a bipartisan bill at the end of the day. host: i would like to talk about the long-term costs. the cbo scoring on this became quite an issue. "wall street journal" editorial- page. it talks about what happens after the 10-year telescope that the cbo booked at. because there is a lot of discussion as you go home about this, i want to have to address this. "the congressional budget office estimates that the house bill increases the deficit by 239 billon dollars over the next decade.

the under reported news is the new spending that will continue to increase beyond the 10-year period that cbo examines, and that this lot will overwhelm even the house democrats to tax increases." guest: we will not pass a bill in the united states senate that does not bring down the cost of health care in this country. we want to bend the cost curve to bring down the costs and make sure that it does not add to the deficit. we are committed to making sure israel. in the short -- making short it is real. american families will not be paying as much as they are paying today for their healthcare needs. host: how important to you is a public option? guest: a public option is imported to bring down costs. we want to strengthen private insurance and strengthen protections for private insurance, and for those who cannot find private insurance,

the public insurance option is important, and it allows us to have a barometer to make sure we can keep costs down. host: california is on the line, democrats line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a couple of points and then the question or two. host: will you keep it brief? caller: i will. what are you going to do to try to curb the disruptive mob-type incursions that are happening at the town hall meetings? it seems like the methods will be lost in the shuffle with all the disruptive behavior going on. the next thing is, as far as health care reform is concerned, we desperately needed this. my personal views are that unless we have universal health care, i do not think that on a

global basis we will ever be able to compete with other countries in the marketplace. however, that is not practical, it will not happen, i realize this. but a public option or some type of health insurance exchange is desperately needed. health reform is needed. host: how about that question, please? caller: will you please do what we sent you guys to washington to do and not allow the private interests to sway you to the point of diluting this bill where returns are to be not the format we need? please, i am begging you. thank you very much. have a great day. guest: i think most members of the united states senate and congress believe that this is our moment to correct the health care system of this country. we know it will not be easy. we know that there are a lot of special interests out there that have a vested interests. but this is such an important issue that we want to get it right.

we want to use the break to get information out to people of our states. we want them to understand what is in the bill. we are not trying to persuade them that we should do it this way or that way. we want everyone operating under the same set of facts. if we do nothing, then we do know one thing -- health care costs will continue to consume a greater percentage of our economy, more people will be without health insurance, entering our health care system in a more expensive way, the hidden tax we all pay for those in my state, $11,000 a year, will continue to grow. those who have insurance pay $11,000 extra for those who do not. those costs will continue to grow. we want to get this right. it is not an easy issue to deal with. we want to make sure that people understand what is in the bill. we want to make sure the people have a right to continue the private coverage and nature is affordable in the future. host: how about her comment about the protests at the

meetings? guest: we expect that. this is a democracy and people have the right to be heard. we hope people are respectful and allow other people to be heard as well. i expect to listen to marylanders during the recess i hope people listen so that they can get the facts. the purpose of a town hall meeting is to have an exchange of views, not to have someone to monopolize it. host: the local "examiner" newspaper this morning says that you have a town hall that is invitation only. guest: that is not true. it is open to the public. that is some reporter trying to make a story where none existed. host: who will be with you? guest: myself. i will have some people with the university, but it is an opportunity to top -- to talk to people. host: 4 senator ben cardin,

lafayette, indiana, bonnie, republican line. caller: hello, senator cardin. i question is why cann't the health care system we have now have reform and regulations? the government cannot seem to manage medicare and medicaid. what i am asking is why they cannot do it with a reform and regulations? guest: i personally believe that medicare has been a great success. but it has covered our seniors and those with disabilities with comprehensive -- it could be stronger. as far as benefits that are covered, our seniors have the highest costs but they are the only ones guaranteed coverage. they have a choice. they can choose their own doctor or hospital. they have a choice between private insurance or public

insurance. you can use medicare advantage. you can supplement it through private insurance. i think the medicare system is working well. the administrative costs are the lowest of any payers of health care in this country. i think that we benefit by having our seniors covered under the medicare system. >> is medicare's financial help injured when baby boomers start tapping into it? -- is medicare's financial health ensured when baby boomers start tapping into it? guest: you have to reform it by making health care affordable. host: brice, independent line. caller: good morning. thank you, c-span, center. like to see you are working on this issue. i have a question the talking points seem to be about reform and reducing costs.

i cannot take anything specific in the past 20 years that you and your five under 34 other members of congress and senate have cut -- 534 other members of congress and senate have cut in 20 years. you have a great propensity for not doing that. case in point, on the defense bill, they put the f-22 back in against the pentagon and president obama's wishes. when you and your 100 other people get together and try to find cuts in health care to pay for this, i don't see how on earth you will ever did -- you will ever do it. as far as finding ways to fund it, you have to raise taxes. the other elephant in the room is that if 80% of us have health care and 46 million and don't come i assume that the fait accompli is that the legal

aliens will also get health care. -- illegal aliens will also get health care. guest: we to eliminate things that don't work. the senate voted to eliminate the f-22, i voted to eliminate the f-22. in the health-care system, we do believe that there are areas where we can significantly cut costs. we have done that with the pharmaceutical manufacturers. the president has negotiated a 50-some billion dollar reduction in government spending in regards to prescription and medicine. we are eliminating waste. we are trying to find ways to save dollars. we know that there are a lot of unnecessary tests done in the health-care system. we want people currently using the emergency room as their primary care facility to have care in their community in a much more cost-effective way than using the emergency rooms. the health-care bill will not cover illegal immigrants.

they are not included in the program and will not get benefits of health care reform. host: another smiling photograph in the paper of you is from "roll call." this is on the rally for judge sotomayor. what is your move as the senate votes on that this effort -- this afternoon? guest: first, this is truly a moment in history. the first latino on the supreme court, only the third woman to be confirmed for the supreme court. i been privileged to represent maryland not only in the senate but on the judiciary committee. senator leahy and senator sessions conducted the hearings in a very dignified way. judge sotomayor answered all of our questions. i think she has an incredible background as a prosecutor, a trial court judge, appellate court judge. i think she has the passion to understand what the

constitution -- the constitution is a timeless document, protecting our rights. i'm confident that she will be a great number of the united states supreme court, continuing her record as a distinguished jurist. this is truly a moment in history. host: henry on the democrats' line for senator cardin. caller: the problem i have with the democrats is day take away the talking points from the republicans. when they talk about the government cannot run a health care system such as medicare or medicaid, the va, tell them, ask all these people, all these programs, whether they want to take them away from them or not. then let people decide how well the government runs the health care department. and talking about how much this is going to cost us -- run of

figures and asked how much it will cost if we do not do something about it in the future. and also, common sense, ever since i have been if the boy, and i'm 68 years old, and in business of any kind, any place, any one, they want to do one thing, eliminate the middleman. the middle man is the private insurance companies. not only are you eliminating a big cost, you are eliminating them from having a say over what you are going to be covered by to. host: thanks, let's get a response from the senator. guest: part of this reform will be significant changes in private insurance. they will no longer deny you coverage based on a pre-existing consistent -- pre-existing condition or read you in a way that makes it impossible to afford insurance.

if you are a small business owner and have 25 employees and try to find a insurance plan, if you are lucky enough to find when you can afford, and then a couple of your employees add significant needs and your premiums go up 30, 40, 50, 100%. that is going to be eliminated under the reforms that we're talking about. small companies will have the same advantages as large companies. they will not be adversely impacted by the health records of one of the employees. there will be incentives to keep health care costs down in this reform. people can take responsibility for issues such as proper care for cardiac disease, or dealing with weighty issues, or dealing with other types of health care problems. the concept here is to keep costs down. and to regulate in an appropriate way so that people can get affordable health insurance. but the bottom line is to

improve health care, the quality of health care in america, make it affordable for all. host: minnesota is next. jeff, republican line caller. caller: i have two short questions that require a yes or no answer. all the experts agree that these will help reduce the cost of health care. do you support the elimination of state lines for private insurance companies? so someone can cross state lines and ordered to -- in order to get health insurance. and do you support about tort reform? guest: i did not know we have prohibitions against state lines. i am not aware of that issue. i can tell you that the insurance reform we are looking at will establish national guidelines, and therefore, i think your first issue will not be a problem. in regards to dealing with tort

reform issues, there are many aspects to it, including alternative dispute resolutions that could save us money. host: here is a question -- guest: well, i don't think anything went wrong. the medicare population is still the most expensive part. as you get older, you use the health care system more frequently. host: might take on this is that overall health-care costs for the nation -- inflation for health care for the country every year. guest: absolutely, because new technologies, people want the latest tests, the newest medicines. as we invest more in medical technology and growth, you get new ways weekend do things.

we now have the imaging, the types of procedures we can get back then. think about the number of tests that are now available that were not available just 10 or 20 years ago or three years ago. we have improved and helped technology. also, are democrats except change. we are an older society than we were 20 -- also, our demographics have changed. we are in older society than we were 20 years ago. guest: clearly, the emergency rooms. we should be using the emergency rooms for emergency care. we should not be using them as primary care facilities. those without insurance often have no option but to use emergency rooms, extremely expensive. secondly, we need to have a wellness system. we have got to keep people well. if you do certain tests, you can detect diseases at a much

earlier stage, much less expensive than the health care system. in some cases, you can avoid actually prevent diseases by early -- by using these tests. all this can clearly save us a significant amount of funds. let me mention technology. we talk about technology, but let me give you some of the facts. today if you go into an emergency room, it is unlikely that they will have the technology to get your medical history in time to avoid doing tests that may not be necessary. we want to technologies that we do not have to use the health care system as much as we do today, because we just don't know about your prior conditions, prior tests that you have, and we want to just use technology more friendly to keep costs down. host: salinas, california, cindy, independent line. caller: i have been listening to what you have been saying and i

cannot see anything that you have unsinkable bend the cost curve, when you extend coverage to 40 million people, many of whom are illegal immigrants. i don't understand how you plan to lower costs under these circumstances. guest: once again, the bill does not cover illegal immigrants. let me give you a couple of concrete examples. we want families to be able to get wellness services. we want oral health, people to avoid seeing dennis and the expense of not having good or will help to -- seeing dentists and the expense of not having good oral health care. you want them is to have the types of tests that will keep you from getting disease. with colon cancer, the less certain tests done, you can

detect polyps -- if you have certain tests done, you can detect polyps before they become cancerous. with breast cancer, you can detect them at an earlier stage with cats. today, many families cannot afford the cats because -- tests. under this reform, there would be no co-payments for these types of tests. if we detect cancer at an early stage, the treatment can be inexpensive and helpful. at a later stage, it is a much more costly process and the results are not as likely to be favorable. that is how you bring down costs, by early intervention and allowing people to get the tests they need to stay healthy, avoiding unnecessary services. that is what we are attempting to do, to get you more information. building on the current system -- if you are happy with your current insurance, you can keep

that. if you change jobs, he will be able to get your insurance at the next job -- will be able to get your entrance at the next job without being questioned. host: i showed an article at the beginning of the program about the six finance committee negotiators. they suggest that they may not be able to meet a september deadline. how do you see this whole debate played out legislatively? guest: it is difficult as you can see by the callers, they have questions. the senate finance committee is trying to make a bipartisan bill. if they get it done, it will make members confident that we can build -- bring a bill to the floor with a strong bipartisan support. if that happens, it is likely that the senate can pass a bill in the fall in conference with the house. if we are unable to get a bipartisan bill, the son will

still bring up a bill -- the senate will still bring up a bill. we need to act. president obama has made it clear that failure is not an option. i expect in the fall this year, i help with bipartisan support -- if we don't have that, we will still move forward in conference with the house. host: albany, georgia, the democrats' line. caller: good morning, susan. good morning, senator cardin. i am from albany, georgia. you spoke of the f-22. we were manufacturing that in georgia, and our senatorial makeup will show you that -- nevertheless, i think you are probably in washington, d.c., during the time that the hmo animal was invented, supposed to

such a grand thing to save money. also, people don't understand that these k-streeters, with these c-streeters, are putting out a lot of propaganda and flimflam junk about sending teams of disrupting people to disrupt the democratic meeting, small d, to just keep people from being informed and keep their representative from informing them. they are doing a good job of it, and they learn how to do a long time ago. they are putting out a lot of misinformation, such as the government cannot administer health programs. i go solely to the va for my health care and it is a pretty good little thing. also, the -- host: let me jump in, with

apologies to we have a minute and a half left in the program. guest: first, i appreciates your comments about the va care. i think you are absolutely right. the government has been able to get that right, and there are a lot of things we do that are helpful. as far as town hall meetings, i cannot agree with you more. town hall meetings are an opportunity for citizen participation. for those who disrupted, they are denying it felicitous is an opportunity to have a discussion. -- they are denying fellow citizens and opportunity to have a discussion. we hope our town hall meetings will be productive in getting people an opportunity to express their views and listening to what is in these bills and what is in the congress. host: last question comes from houston, republican line. caller: i have been a practicing pediatrician for 27 years, eight of those in the emergency department.