institute of allergy and infectious diseases talks about the spread of 81 and 1, or swine flu, in the u.s.. "washington journal" is next. guehost: the new york times reports this morning that the obama administration is facing for another grim job report, that in about an hour and a half. the article also says that economists are suggesting that the stimulus package is helping to blunt the downturn at this point. in case you missed that senate point -- that senate vote, it was 60-37 for the cash to clunkers program. they put $2 billion on the table to keep that program funded. and after confirming son of sotomayor for the supreme court, she will be sworn in tomorrow.

we have a three-hour "washington journal" for you. in this first half-hour, i want to get your reaction to a white house official speech this week. in which he says the administration is dropping some of the rhetoric on terrorism, actually dropping language that points to a war on terrorism. their point is they want to focus more on development and labels. republicans, call 202-737-0001. democrats, 202-737-0002. and independents 202-628-0205. "u.s. no longer at war with terrorism," from "washington post." "is the official, the u.s. is no longer engaged in a 'war on terrorism.' neither is it locked then a global war.

again, they are focusing on the language. president obama's top moments security and counterterrorism official on thursday declared as unacceptable the terms crafted by the george w. bush administration. it is now solely a war with al qaeda and its violent extremist allies, said john brennan, speaking yesterday at the center for strategic and international studies, a think-tank in washington. the semantic shift is intended to bring precision to the way othe president and his aides tak about the nation's efforts to defeat al qaeda. to say the u.s. is fighting jihadists is wrongheaded." more from the washington times, "is using a legitimate term, and

g hyde, mean to purify oneself or to wage a holy struggle for a moral bowl, which risks giving these document it risks reinforcing the idea that we're somehow at war with islam itself. as for the war on terrorism, mr. brennan said, the administration will not use the phrase because terrorism is but a tactic. a means to an end which, in al qaeda's case, is global domination by a islamic caliphate. he also dismissed global war as a term that feed al qaeda's vision of itself as a highly organized global entity capable of replacing sovereign nations with a global caliphate." we want to get your reaction to the white house dropping some of this language, "war on terrorism." we welcome your calls, and "the financial times" writes on all this as well. there headline says, " development put at core of

obama's anti-terrorist dreaded g." "the obama administration set out its approach to violent extremism yesterday, dropping the bush administration rhetoric." our first call on all this is from southampton new york. caller: i am a professor on vacation for the summer. professors do not make that much money, but it is great to have the summer off, so that is the one consolation. host: what are you teaching? caller: i teach business in boston, so, you know, i work on a few papers. i was listening to donald trump on larry king's show. i would like to give you his quote. he is quite savvy, and i can see why he is a billionaire. he said, you know, larry, who

did 9/11. it was 16 saudis. then he talked about iraq. he said, look, we wasted $1 trillion in iraq that could have paid for college educations, and what is going to happen when we pull out? five dozen years these people have been fighting, and nothing changes. host: caller let's get to the language itself. caller: he pointed out that we are in afghanistan, which is 90% of the world topos heroin, so what can it be but a terrorist state? if we do not take the heroin out of afghanistan, they have the money to export this to different countries. host: michael, thanks very much. let's hear from rodney on the republican line from here in washington, d.c.

here is the headline, rodney, from one of our local papers. "u.s. no longer at war with 'terrorism'." caller: first of all, good morning. i look at it as to-may-to, to- mah-to, but the underlying policies have not changed. we can look at semantics, things of that nature. as a muslim myself, i find it very appalling that many of the people who actually articulate their views and ideas of this lomb ignore -- of islam ignore the huge number of african-

american muslims in this country, and we very here -- we're very seldom hear african- american muslims on tv articulating a views and ideas as well. islam is very, very much in the african-american community, but we are officially ignored. i am coming out with the book next year talking about this, the native forces of islam in america, and why we are being ignored in this country. host: let's hear from duane in detroit on the independent line. here is the "financial times" headline. there is a photo here of john brennan, and he is the president's top adviser on counterterrorism and homeland security. "a shift away from bush-era rhetoric." what do you make of it? caller: i understand the "war on terrorism" as a term is ambiguous.

there are religious terrorists motivated by religion, politics, people hwho have different motivations, so that is an ambiguous term. but it is a fight or a struggle against intolerant religious extremists, and i do believe that we should use a concise term, but i do not think we can avoid calling a situation what it is. we are fighting against intolerance and people who have extreme views, and to those people that is wrong. anybody who does not have that mind-set should not be offended if we name or identify people who do have that mind-set. host: a little bit more from the "financial times," "label ridiculing the alternative phrase 'overseas contingency

operation,', which was proposed in an internal memo. describing terrorists as jihadists risks in fort -- risks reinforcing the idea that the u.s. is somehow at war with islam itself." next call. caller: i agree with that for some reason. alludes to a war of perpetuity. secondly, harvard university years ago did a comparative study of islamic countries, including the largest islamic country in the world, and apparently there was a perception of the war on

terrorism as a war on islam, so as a matter of national security policy, it is profoundly counterproductive. the third is a regional element of american national heart risk, which is not true. -- american national terrorists, which is not true. it might have an element of violence, but it does not mean that it is an american war, and regional actors have tried to make it an american war. finally, i think to some extent it was used for domestic electoral political consideration, for example, to stimulate certain electoral sympathies. so for all of these reasons, i think it is a very horrible term and it should be discarded. host: on top of your calls and emails, and your use of twitter,

go ahead and send us a message if you would like. twitter.com/cspanwj is the address. also, the home of a pakistan relative destroyed in a drone attack. mrsthis is a "washington times" photo. "pakistan taliban chief may have been killed." to the left of this piece, they remind us of afghanistan war debts. 200 u.s. military deaths since 2001. they put the names and here, they talk about the number being 763 in afghanistan. 525 killed in hostile actions, not hostile actions, 238 killed. if the camera could keep dropping a bit on this page of

the "washington post," they will see that former marines and afghanistan were killed by a roadside bomb. "four u.s. marines killed in a roadside bombing." little river, south carolina, is up now. marke, your are on the air. what do you make of it? caller: let's look at it like this. it would assume that there are no terrorist. bush went to iraq for oil, so i have to come to the conclusion that obama has went to afghanistan for the heroin. there are no terrorists. the only thing we need now -- the only terrorists are these people in these town hall meetings, so maybe if he renamed it "the war on mobs at town hall

meetings," then maybe we could get the union members to join the service and they could help us to feed the war on terrorists, islamic terrorist extremists, and they would not be having to go to this town hall meeting sent by clinton -- i mean, sent by mr. obama, there. now, this person who was just killed, this high-ranking official -- did he by any chance to get his right to read to him? we need to have an investigation on whether congress was a prized of this coup to take out this man. we need to make sure that congress approved that the cia take out this man. host: columbia, south carolina, tony, on the independent line. caller: good to see you on c-

span. my friend from little river is a little mistake here. we are after -- we are escalating the war in afghanistan, going after targets of opportunity when they present itself. members of insurgents can definitely be very easily classified as terrorists. if they want to modify their language, maybe establish some type of communication with unfriendly governments in with guard with what used to be -- in regard with what used to be called the war on terror, it is a matter of semantics. i honestly believe that whoever wrote this article for "depose" is honestly trying to stir up a little -- in "the post," is honestly trying to stir up a little trouble on the right. i am an independent but i did vote for obama and i wish him all the best.

i wish that the right wing could get on board. we are all on the same side here. nobody wants terrorist activities or extremist activities going on that will injure or kill americans anywhere in the world. host: thank you for calling. reminding folks said john brennan is speaking here at the institute for international studies. here is the headline, "u.s. no longer at war with terrorism." they are focusing on rhetoric language. they want to drop it and focus instead on development. here is a twitter message. "the problem is that al qaeda is out to defeat and ruin us. we need to keep focused on defeating our enemies. war creates focus." here is a picture of secretary of state clinton, who was in africa, praising the president of somalia. the headline that goes with this

piece , "clinton assures support for somali government." "the secretary of state raised its president as the best we have had for some time and strongly warned eritrea." "the u.s. is promising somalia more aid to help fight terror. they will increase the support for the beleaguered government and help somalia becoming -- from becoming a haven for global terrorism." instead, connecticut, michael, hi there. what do you think? caller: well, i am relieved. i am proud of this administration for dropping the term, which i think was phony and was used by the previous administration to perpetuate continuous war, which was just -- you know, it was phony. my issue now is changing it to

war on al qaeda, because i think al qaeda is also a nebulous term. i think it is sort of a loose association of thugs, and ultimately it is a matter of semantics, and the war on terrorism is a bad term. host: genie, hi there. caller: i have a suggestion, instead of "war and terrorism" we could call it "war on ignorance" because i think we choose to ignore our differences in the world, and we digest what the mass media is feeding us every day. i just think it is a war on interest. thank you. host: another tweak from a viewer. "the language of war must be replaced with words of logic and peace some time. now is that time." here is the front page of the " philadelphian inquirer."

a shot of sonia sotomayor reading spectators. 68-31, and she will be sworn in tomorrow. the first hispanic justice on the supreme court. "washington times cloa" chart here. the republicans were senator lamar alexander of tennessee, chris bond of missouri, susan collins of maine. judd greg of new hampshire, senator richard lugar of indiana. editorial pages on all this, "the baltimore sun" calls it a wise validation. the senate confirmation of judge sotomayor is a welcome decision, but her overheated opponents now have some explaining to do of their own." that is "the baltimore sun," and the "wall street journal" editorial put it this way."

"and undulate -- she nonetheless becomes the first hispanic justice. we can not help but contrast her treatment with the way democrats neared and filibustered appellate court nominee miguel estrada in 2001. he might otherwise have become the first hispanic justice in george w. bush's second term. but judge sotomayor's confirmation is a rifle source of pride to the port reading community. we wish her good judgment." annandale, virginia, back to this question on language -- " war on terrorism" being dropped. caller: first of all, i would like to say that if the first to go colors were a professor and a writer, i will eat my hat. i would like to point out that the term is a lot different

from the phrase used by george bush, "war on terror." if you want to fight the war on terror, you had better look within because the first thing you are going to do when you are terrified is attack the people right in front of you. you know, countries like the u.s. and israel have certainly participated in terror. i might cite the use of the atomic bomb, the only country that has used the atomic bomb is our own. we have a lot to answer for their. and israel certainly conduct a lot of violence to achieve political change. host: "send it extends clunkers despite gop hurdles." it did not pass. the senate basically passed the house version, $2 billion, and the program cash for clunkers goes on. in "the new york times," they talk about passage of the bill,

the program, but they write in the times policy makers could do even more to push consumers in the right direction by giving them a clear financial incentive to buy fuel-efficient vehicles. that in turn could mean a gas tax, the most effective way we could think to keep fuel prices high enough to think twice before buying a guzzler. one study of car sales from 1999 to 2007 concluded that a $1 increase in the price of gas cut the market share of suv's by more than 11% and raise the market share of compact by 17% next call on the war on terrorism, john, you are on the air. caller: i just think it is a changing of verbiage, as you pointed out. it is just obama trying to -- if you look at his poll numbers, he keeps sliding. with promises he has not been able to keep up to, and he is just trying to separate himself

from the last administration, and that is my view on it. host: springfield, illinois, andrew, independent color. hi there. what do you make of the debate come to the discretion -- the discussion over language, the war on terror? caller: the whole thing to me seems to be -- host: let's move on to washington, d.c. democrats line, hello there. caller: first i have a suggestion that you advise callers how long they have to make their comment. and my comment is actually i think the obama administration is right getting rid of the war on terrorism term. because now it is a war to stabilize afghanistan. i deeply oppose the missile

programs because killing one person and not caring if other people are killed is a crime. thank you very much. host: thanks. there is this piece in the "philadelphian inquirer." two kansas senators, both republicans, are stalling a group of nominees that need to get confirmed by the senate. they are stalling them. the senior administration post at the pentagon and justice department in protest over a proposal to house guantanamo detainees at the fort leavenworth prison in their state. senators brownback and pat roberts said yesterday that they are prepared to block the appointment until they get answers from the white house about the unconfirmed proposal." next call, michigan, sandra, on

the republican line. caller: hello, yes. i have a question first and then a comment. why is it that you mostly read articles, paragraphs from liberal papers? that is what it seemed like, every time you and the other people pick up papers from liberal, you know, publishers. host: let me just stop. what have you heard this morning? caller: i heard from "the new york times," mainly liberal papers. host: let me just jump in. the you hear us read from "the washington times" and "the wall street journal"? caller: yes, but you mainly read from liberal papers. ok, my statement is -- can i say that now?

host: yes. caller: i was born in russia, lived in poland. this is the fourth country i am living in and i know the difference what is going on. in russia and poland when there was a communist country, the people did not have a say in anything. the newspapers, the people were kept from the truth, and slowly but surely our freedoms were taken away and we had guys on streets with guns with rifles during world war ii. after world war ii. this is what is happening here in america. we are being silenced, we are being called all kinds of names when we stand up for ourselves when we want the truth. not the lies that the government is now giving out.

we are being told what they want us to hear, and this is a tragedy for the united states. host: appreciate your thoughts this morning. while congress moves into its august break, the news stories continue. "key lawmaker received countrywide loans." they have a photo here of a congressman from new york. they point out that they count -- a powerful house democrat who has turned down republicans call to subpoena records of a mortgage program received two home loans from countrywide provided loans to public figures and other favored borrowers often at lower interest rates that were available to the public." you can read more on this piece in "the wall street journal." back to "the washington times

," "jefferson faces financial hits at sentencing." he still faces a financial deepfreeze, the same jury that convicted the louisiana democrat of 11 of 16 corruption charges decided thursday he should forfeit four and $70,653 collected from his illegal schemes -- $470,653." david on the democrats' line, hi. dave, are you there? dave, one more time. are you there? let's try joe in long beach, new york. an independent scholar. -- an independent collar. caller: yes, i am here. i felt all along that the language was used to frighten us

so that the government could do what ever it wanted, and one of the things the government did that terrified me even more than terrorism, the terrorists, was they started to spy on us without court or oversight, started to take away our severcivil liberties. as president obama in any way, shape, or form started to rescind any of these things, where the government can listen to our phone calls without oversight? has that been done yet? host: we appreciate all your calls. the jobless numbers come out in an hour, so we will let you know what those are when they come out. we will have segments later on health care, the swine flu, the town hall meetings happening around the country in a minute, a journalist in prison and abroad. we will be back with joel simon on the committee to protect journalists. we will be right back.

>> yesterday the full senate confirmed judge sonia sotomayor as the newest supreme court justice. the next term officially begins monday, october 5. this saturday on c-span, watch highlights from the senate floor debate at 7:00 p.m. eastern on america and the courts. coming this fall, and to the home to america's highest court, the supreme court. all this month, revisit the fares and festivals we have covered this year on c-span2's book tv. this weekend, the key west literary seminar and the annapolis books get -- the annapolis boat festival. host: our guest in new york city is joel simon on the executive committee and to protect journalists. when you saw the video of laura

ling and euna lee, released from north korea, one went through your mind and the mind of the organization? guest: well, i think like all americans we were just relieved that the ordeal had come to an end. it certainly looked bleak for a while, and they were sentenced to 12 years of hard labor in north korea. that is a very, very harsh sentence. it was not clear to us exactly what the way out of it was, so we saw them get off the plane and embrace their families, and we were really relieved that this had come to an end. host: much was written about the role of al gore behind the scenes, bill clinton, the administration, of course, but the committee to protect journalists -- how is it involved in this particular case? guest: this is a somewhat unusual situation. we were in touch with the family, and we offered our

support and solidarity, and really our role was to help keep this arrest sort of in the public mind. to make sure that there was media attention and to provide support, kind of emotional support to the families who participated in rallies and public bills. so that was really our role. host: you tell us that laura ling and euna lee are just two of many alberto tell us about journalists in prison and abroad two of many -- two of many. tell us about journalists in prison abroad. guest: with the crackdown in iran, the rest of about 40 journalists in the post-election crackdown, has actually surpassed china and become the world's leading jailer of

journalists. there are about 40 in jail right now, including a correspondent for "newsweek." i would say there are well over 150 journalists in jail around the world. what is important to keep in mind is i do not think there are many americans on that list. euna lee and laura ling were the only two. most of them are in prison in their own countries. that is what is typical. host: joel simon of the committee to protect journalists, he is the executive director. we invite your questions and comments by phone. republicans, democrats, independents, you have your own lines. we're talking maybe 150, 170 of these journalists in prison. what other countries do you understand our holding

journalists? guest: year after year china has been the world's meeting jailer, and they have around 30 journalists in jail. many of these are bloggers and online journalists, people who criticize the one-party system in china, who advocated for greater openness and pointed out corruption. these are the people who are in jail in china, as china has a vast apparatus to sensor control of the media, as we know. but if you cross the line, if you are not unduly intimidated and controlled and you become too critical, you risk being put in jail, and that has happened to several dozen journalists there. next is cuba in our own hemisphere. cuba has a much more controlled media even than china. in china there is a huge on-line community and a vibrant public debate. in cuba there is none of that.

in cuba the state controls the media. most of these journalists were swept up in a broad crackdown that began in march 2003. they have been sentenced to long prison terms, and their outlook is bleak. it is very, very -- it is a very, very tough situation for journalists in cuba. host: is there a typical situation in terms of how long these journalists are held in jail? what else can you tell us about them, about them being in prison? guest: it is not typical, and it varies. in a place like iran, we tend to see more of a revolving door. there are some loggers sentences, but for the most part -- there are some longer sentences, but for the most part journalists go in, go out, they are released. in china, sentences could vary from a couple of years to a

journalist who has been in jail the loggers, 20 years. in cuba -- the longest, 20 years. in cuba, some are several decades. the journalists who receive these sentences, some of them are older and not in good health, so you are talking potentially a life sentence. they are sending a clear message. china, with enormous population, 30 journalists may not sound like a large number, but these imprisonments send a message to all journalists about the consequences for being overly critical. there are sacred cows in chinese political culture -- the one- party system, for example. these are issues that are not discussed, and if you do so, then the consequences could be in imprisonment, and that is the

message the chinese government wants to send. host: do you have a general sense of the treatment of the 150-plus journalist, how they are doing? can you even tell? guest: in some cases we can. we are in touch regularly with their families. we have not talked about burma, africa, where secretary clinton just spoke about airtreritrea. some of these places are -- in some of these places, the journalists are held incommunicado. in cuba, they received occasional family visits, but we know from the family members who have visited them the conditions are extremely harsh and they do not have adequate medical care. in china is very difficult.

it is difficult to find out what the treatment is like. there is a chinese journalist who was in jail for several years who was in canada and spoke about his experience. he said the international outcry, letting the people of the chinese government know they were outraged by this. sometimes you hear stories like that that give you encouragement host: let's go to calls for joel simon of the committee to protect journalists. beverly, welcome to the program. caller: how are you doing? i wanted to say you mentioned a lot of countries. i think you would have to beat aliterate or uninformed not to know that there are -- i think you would have to be illiterate or uninformed not to know that

there are american journalists in other countries that we cannot get any word on, and why is nothing ever done when someone is held by the israelis? host: koehler, where do you get your information on all of this -- caller, where do you get your information on all this? caller: well, i got my information from callers on c- span, and then i looked it up on the internet and it is true. host: let's hear from joel simon. her point about israel? guest: well, i am afraid i have to plead ignorance and uninformed because i am not aware of that. host: democrats like, you are online with joel simon. caller: i have a question. it depends on the representation of a particular company. a lot of companies -- those are

the best people on the ground. let me ask you. would you think that more of the prominent government people would be going over, like president clinton, to negotiate on the release of the journalists throughout the country? guest: well, first of all, the hikers who were detained by the iranian authorities were not sure that -- it does not seem to be journalism related. that was unprecedented. that visit by former president clinton had to do with the nature of the north korean regime, and their desire for some sort of high-level attention from the u.s.. it is important to point out that this is not the first time something like this has happened. many times in american has been retained, and really what they demand is some sort of high-

level envoy to negotiate the release. this is not something that is unprecedented, and looking around a world that the situation right now, i cannot see this kind of intervention happening, given what the reality is in these places. host: our guest is educated at stanford, and joel simon has written a book, "endangered in mexico." he is a freelance 4 "the san francisco chronicle," and is now executive director of the committee -- how many countries around the world have a free press? guest: there are some groups that do that kind of monitoring, and it is a highly subjective evaluation. but, you know, i think it is

fair to say that a truly free press is rare, that most countries around the world have some sort of restriction on the press, and it obviously varies quite a bit. you can sort of breakdown into two broad categories, countries where there is violence against the press, the government is sort of unable or unwilling to stem the violence. countries that fall into that category might be mexico, our neighbor, where over 20 journalists have been killed in recent years, many of them covering the drug trade. or russia, where there is a long history of violence with impunity against journalists. pakistan, and certainly iraq. iraq is the most deadly country for journalists perhaps in history. the second broad category are countries that jail journalists,

repressive countries. violence is rare, but the government itself is kind of the enemy of press freedom, and we have talked about these countries already. around the world journalists confront two fundamental risks -- the risk of violence and the rest of incarceration. host: you mentioned russia. a viewer 3 twitter mentions russia as well. "what about the journalists that was poisoned because of criticism of putin." can you speak to a journalist who may have been poisoned? guest: i am not sure whether that person he was talking about -- he was actually a former kgb defector who lived in london who was poisoned, and that may be what the person was referring to. there was a journalist who was one of the most incredible

investigative journalists, really a courageous, courageous figure. and she traveled back and forth from moscow to chechnya where there is this terrible conflict going on and was one of the few russian reporters to cover it. she was actually poisoned on a flight from moscow where there was a school that was taken over by chechen terrorists. she went to cover that event and was poisoned. she did not die from that, fortunately, but subsequently she was actual it -- she was actually murdered in her moscow apartment elevator. she has become a symbol of brutality, the impunity of what is like to be a journalist in a place like russia covering human rights issues, covering corruption.

the killings continue, the impunity continues. it is an environment in which independent journalists are really just struggling to survive. host: we hear from michigan. bill, thanks for hanging on. caller: good morning. i want to see how unbiased c- span really is. i'm going to ask a question and make a statement. i was watching c-span earlier today and they did a news poll on how much you believe in the media, rated from a to f. the media got a d from the american public. you made the statement, sir, when you came on, saying that the majority of merit -- the majority of americans are greatly relieved -- the bottom line is the majority of americans do not care. what they care about is at the end of the month, 650,000 people are losing their unemployment

benefits. that is a good domestic army. you know, you want to talk about watering down, that is a man- made disaster that mr. obama needs to look at because that is what the people really care about. host: joel simon, because it touches on the opinion of others. he says most people do not care about this type of thing. do you sense that, and if you do, does that make your life, your job, even harder? guest: you know, it is interesting. the media is one of those things where people have a lot of -- there is a lot of disappointment. you confront that every day. but i have a very global perspective. a lot of people in this country, obviously their criticism of the media, and people around the world do, too. but i tend to think that the

media is viewed in a place where people -- where there is lots of different points of view and information flying around, people forming perspectives and opinions based on this information. you cannot take that for granted, and the countries we are talking about -- iran, china, cuba, russia, these are countries where most of the population does not have access to information, does not have a free and robust and open public debate. i understand the frustration and i understand why people are critical of the media, it is also easy to take for granted. if you live in a place where the media is centered and controlled and journalists are being put in jail, you really understand what the consequences are of losing that channel of communication.

host: we have a call from frank on the democrats' line, from cincinnati. good morning. caller: good morning, thank you for c-span. my understanding is that recently there were three hikers hiking in northern iraq. they were americans, and one, maybe several of them, where journalists. one of them was a journalist for democracy now! and they wandered into iran. as far as i know, they are still in iran. i am wondering what you could tell me about that. guest: yeah, we are simply concerned about the situation. it does not seem to be directly related to their journalistic work, although one of the people, one of the hikers who is detained in iran is a journalist. his name is shane hour. as you mentioned, he wrote --

his name is shane bower. as you mentioned, he did some fine work as a journalist. he told his editor he was interested in the kurdish elections. it is not clear if he was planning to report on them. it seemed to be more of a recreational trip, and one of his companions released a statement yesterday which i recommend to you. he sort of describe what happened. this is really a recreational trip. it sounds a little strange to people here, but this area of iraq is actually very safe, very secure. it is kurdistan. it is not a part of iraq that you read about every day. it is a beautiful area. people do go up into the mountains, and the border is on mark, and that seems to be what happened. they seemed to be on a hiking trip. we do not know exactly what happened. they called on their cell phone,

i guess, at one point, their companion and said they were about to be taken in by iranian border patrol or border agents, and that is the last we know. the iranian government, some iranian government's boat people have said they were detained. -- some iranian government spokes people have said they were detained. it is obviously a troubling situation. host: tallahassee, florida, you are up now. nathaniel, independent caller, you are on with joel simon from new york caller: i would like to ask two questions, and then i will take my answers off the air. $600 million from the bush administration, allocated for journalists going over iranian

borders, and the election going on in iran. it seems to be an attempt in the area between the money that was allocated, and it isn't it coincidental that the two countries -- they are the two countries that we have journalists continually going over the borders. host: let's hear from our guest. guest: there is a certain -- i think this is largely coincidental. you know, iran and north korea, the dynamics are so totally different. let me try to take a couple of different points that the caller may. you know, one of the things about these countries is that it is hard to get information. it is virtually impossible to get information from north korea. it is a totally closed society that we once labeled the most

closed countries in the world. -- the most censored country in the world. that was the goal of these journalists. we do not know exactly what went on. we will probably learn in the coming days. but somehow they fell into the hands of the north korean authorities, and we know what happened then. iran -- the dynamic that has led to the crackdown, this huge crackdown in iran, is complicated. it obviously has as much to do with domestic political competition and the split between more hard-line elements and more reformist elements in iran. but part of iranian politics since 1979, the revolution, has always been with the perception that enemies outside the country, but particularly the united states, but not exclusively the united states,

are attending to overthrow the government. that is not without foundation, so when there is political instability, outside agitators are blamed and journalists are often caught in the crosshairs. there is a history over the last decade or so about kind of expanding the press, a press that was a little more vibrant that the government would move against, then they cracked down. there is a bit of a cat-and- mouse game there with the media in iran, but i definitely think that part of that is based on a perception within the government that there are enemies outside the country that could stand the thought that could destabilize the region. host: joel simon is with the committee to protect journalists. when a journalist is imprisoned by some countries around the

world, what might be happening behind the scenes by that person's news organization, governments that might be involved? guest: a couple of things to keep in mind. more and more journalist ott in prison around the world are freelancers, and more and more journalists around the world were on line. the largest group in prison worked online -- not print, not broadcast, online. that is the largest group. some of these journalists, such as the one who worked for "newsweek," they have people who worked for them behind the scenes. "newsweek" has done a very effective campaign of drawing attention to imprisonment without due process, without access to a lawyer, etc., and the same with this other photojournalist.

but many freelancers, many on- line journalists do not have organizations that can stand up and advocate for them. they do not have anyone who can draw attention to the circumstances of their detention. so it is even more difficult for them. sometimes you can mount effective legal defenses or public advocacy strategies or engage with the government, but sometimes that is more difficult. sometimes you do not even have basic information about where the journalist is being held, what kind of legal process has been implemented against them, so it is quite variable. but i have to point out in some of these cases the journalists are held incommunicado, and we go for an extended period of time without having any contact with them whatsoever. host: go to smith, alabama, democrats line. what is your name?

caller: wiladene. i admire so much the journalists that go to these very desperate, dangerous countries. but i am 81, and i have been watching news, news, news, which i -- from world war ii, the world -- the war correspondents. it was by film, of course, but i got direct news. i want to hear more direct news from anderson cooper, steve weir -- i want to hear their voice instead of all these repeated on the cable stations. i just want to know the latest o much. host: thanks for calling. let's go to buffalo new york and hear from herb.

caller: good morning. as mr. simon knows, about 25 years ago it was found out that journalists had been routinely recorded by the cia, and it was pointed out that this puts every journalist in danger overseas when the cia does that. and the government, as i recall at that point, agreed they would not recruit anymore journalists. now, that was 25 years ago. is there any agreement today, mr. simon, among the journalistic profession that they will refuse, they will totally refused to participate in any fashion in an intelligence-gathering job for the cia or any of our defense intelligence agencies? host: thanks. mr. simon? guest: purely raise an excellent point.

when journalists go overseas, the thing they get accused of most often is being a spy. it is in the interest of journalists and in the interest of our government that the cia never, ever recruit, use journalists as sources, and they had a prohibition on that that still stands that has been in place for a long time. the cia talk about this for a long time. they never recruit, they never use journalists as sources because they recognize the risk it poses to them. u.s. journalists, i can say categorically that it is a central tenet of the profession that this is something you never do. something that you never considered. so the caller is right. it is a risk, and it is something that we have to be vigilant about. host: one last caller from dayton, ohio.

michael, go ahead. caller: yes, i have a question about certain radio personalities -- michael savage. he is on a terror list in britain. he is not a terrorist, but he is on the list. he has also subpoenaed hillary clinton to take him off the list, but she says -- but she has seemed to ignore it. they fired a certain secretary who put him on the list. so far it seems the country just ignores it. the politicians will not do anything for him. he is a journalist right here in the u.s.. his program is never broadcast in britain, so she had lost its control simon, what do you say about that? caller: is interesting.

i am frankly -- guest: id is interesting. i'm frankly not aware of it. host: joel simon is executive director of the committee to protect journalists, joining us from new york city. thank you for your time this morning. guest: thank you. host: it is 8:00 in washington, d.c., in the rest of the program will feature max pappas from an organization known as freedomworks. we will talk about health care and the protests at town hall meetings around the country. later, a representative of moveon.org, ilyse hogue. and coming up a bit later, dr. anthony fauci, from the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases. we will get an update on h1n1 flu. in the meantime, an update from c-span radio. >> the president says he will find the cash for clunkers build

it -- he will sign the cash for clunkers bill immediately. the video -- the vote was 60-37. the president possible to keep the program running until congress returns in early september. an update on the fall flu season. education secretary arne duncan speaking this morning on cbs's "the early show," saying schools will be the focal point of fighting age 1 and 1 swine flu virus. he says people should expect a tiered response. secretary duncan, health and hubris services -- health and human services secretary sebelius. a letter from senator kent conrad to their licet regarding his investigation of cip mortgages from countrywide accuses the congressman of attempting to impugn his name. senator conrad says that the senate ethics committee is the

appropriate forum to resolve this matter, not representatives of issa's staff on the reform committee. secretary clinton is on the second leg of a tour of africa, meeting with south african officials urging them to push for political and economic reform in neighboring zimbabwe. those are some of the latest headlines on c-span radio. .

>> the next term officially begins monday october 5. this saturday on c-span watch highlights from the senate floor debate at 7:00 p.m. eastern on "america and the courts." coming this fall enter the home to america's highest court. >> all this month revisit the fairs and festivals we have covered on book tv. this weekend panels from the key west literary seminar and annapolis book festival. go to book ttv.org. host: with us is max pappas vice president for freedomworks. you will see something called the august recess action kit at your website. we are talking wiabout town hal

meetings. what is the purpose here? >> freedomworks is a grassroots organization engaged in grass roots politics 5 years. every recess we tell our members where town hall meetings are and encourage them and prepare the action kits. they include summaries of the issues, questions they could ask their congressmen. it is to get them to participate in the democratic process as good citizens, show up, ask questions, and it seems like more than ever are showing up this august. host: not to make a direct connection but paul krugman writes about withe town hall mo. there a famous norman rockwell painting part of a series illustrating f.d.r.'s four freed freedoms shows an ordinary citizen protesting.

his neighbors don't like what he is saying but they let him speak what his mind is. that is a far cry from what happened. some shouting this is america have been drowning out and in some cases threatening members of congress trying to talk about health reform. so, when you ask folks to go to town hall meetings what exactly are you telling them to do? guest: we want them to go and ask questions. we don't encourage them to be unruly. it is not necessarily any benefit for that. but when you see the gigantic encroachment on people's lives that we have seen just in the last 10 months, you go back to the busch wall street bailout. $700 billion, a $1 trillion stimulus package now the encroachment into healthcare, they are going to get upset and i can't really blame them for raising their voices and not

using their inside voice when talking about such a serious issue. host: dick armey from texas is chairman of freedomworks. you can learn more at freedomworks.org. phone numbers on the screen as we talk about the protests over congress and healthcare. we have lines for republicans, democrats an independents for our guest max pap mass vice president for bush pappas. paul krugman said while organizers are accuracy haven't seen any evidence that the people disrupting those town halls are a florida style rent a mob referring to the bush v gore case. they appearance to be genuinely angry. what does freedomworks want with healthcare? do you have a proposal? guest: yes, we have been working on healthcare reform for years. we think that there are major

problems with the current system and that we have a list of things that we would like to see. there is nothing in the current proposal that is anything like anything we have been talking about for a god decade. we would like to see people be able to buy insurance over state lines. we have the commerce clause in the constitution where you should be able to buy anything in any state without any barriers but you can't buy insurance from one state to the next. that results in jig cliffs between -- gigantic cliffs between prices. the same guy in new jersey will pay about $1,000 more in new jersey than one who wants to buy in kentucky. the reason is every state has a different list of mandates that the insurance company needs to meet before it can sell insurance in that state. and you get those mandate lists captured by the powerful interests in those states. so you have states where you have to buy insurance that includes things lick weight coverage or mass saage therapy

somebody don't want to pay an extra premium but they have to because the lobby holds up the process. so you have the big, big disparities. if we get rid of that barrier, here is the point where i intirl agree with the rhetoric of the president and even what a lot of congressmen are saying, we need more competition in the healthcare insurance market. we do. if you take down the barriers between states and let somebody shop for health insurance in any state, at no does taxpayers you have a big decrease in the cost for health insurance and more people can afford to buy it which is one of the goals. host: having heard your position on healthcare, let's get back to the town hall meetings. the d.n.c. put out an ad saying "enough of the mob." let's takeeñ3ñnovr a look. >> they are back. they lost the election. they last the recovery act, the

budget and children's healthcare. they have lost the confidence of the american people after eight years of failed policies that ruined our economy and cost millions of jobs. now desperate republicans and their well-funded allies are organizing angry mobs like had he did in the election. their goal, destroy president obama and stop the change americans voted for overwhelmingly in november. >> it will break him. >> i hope he fails. >> this mob activity is straight from the playbook of high level political operatives. they have no plan for moving our country forward so they have called out the mob. >> i want to know why you people are ignoring this instruction kit. >> call the republican party. tell them you have had enough of the mob. host: max pappas of freedom p works. your reaction? >> that is a shocking ad. what we are seeing in that ad is

the demonization of what just a couple of months ago we were celebrating as community organizing. what freedomworks is doing is community organizing. we have people who agree with our positions. we have a mission statement. lower taxes, less government. more freedom. so we oppose any big government program. people who agree with us sign up and come to us for information about the issues and where the town halls are so they can participate. president obama celebrated the idea of that because he was a community organizer. now the d.n.c. releases an ad like that. it is very disappointing. host: before we get to calls some have suggested groups like yours may not be grass roots but astro turf, something that is artificial, something that is prefabricated and preorganized. they are making the point you are structuring all of this stuff. guest: that absurd. freedomworks has been involved in grassroots organizing for 25

years. we always ask people to go to recess visits with their congressmen. we did so in july. you can find a memorial day action kit and july action kit on the website. the difference this time is you have so many more people showing up. now, what we are hearing from our guys is, wow, this is amazing. we never see this many people on our side when we show,. usually it is 25 or so. now you hear about 300, 500 people at congressional town hall meetings. that is something i think that should be celebrated and we have that much more participation in democracy. now, when you have that many people there will be somebody going over the line like the devil pictures. that is not good. but when those inside the beltway should see is just how much their encroachment into the lives of the people outside the beltway is getting people excited and upset. host: let's get on to calls for

max pappas and we will continue to look at some of shots that have come in, mostly by youtube. we are looking to cover some of our own this month around the country. dave in indiana. caller: hey, max, you are a true patriot. i belong to a small group called council of conservative citizens and once you get out of the major cities and get out that the midwest you realize that the average american just wants to go to work, work hard, be patriotic, pay bills and hope that the government stays out of his way. what has happened over the last six to eight months isn't just a progression of the democratic party. mr. obama is weiay past democra and republican. it is a socialist view and you see average folks getting fed up saying this is enough. what can i do? and when we have our little meetings or went down to the tea party i'm one of those mob

people. it economcomical. we want to express ourselves. what is happening with the democratic party and am obama is they try to bull rush america and do as much damage to be socialists but now the average american is standing up and what is happening is they are getting confused like now what do we do? we couldn't bulldoze tell and i think it is great what you are doing, what i wanted to say is let you know that there is millions of americans out there that would prefer not to get involveders that would -- prefer not to get involved but our rights are being taken away. what can we do as regular joes to make a difference other than making phone calls? because when we do go to protest and say stuff a lot of times they will call us racists because you hate immigrants. i don't hate immigrants. i don't want illegal immigrants in the country. it is almost like as soon as you speak about obama is bad they

say that is a racist, it has nothing to do with his collar. host: what would you tell that caller? guest: he is wondering what the average person can do. the first thing i would do if i were concerned is i would hand write a letter to my congressman and then i would find 10 friend who agree with me to do similarly. at the end of each month the congressman will usually talley how much letters they have on each side and if they have more on one side they will give it more thought and maybe won't vote for something. if the caller wants to join frequentlyworks it is free. we will keep you up to date. the second issue he brought up to get back to your question about are these fake grassroots that you are seeing. as he pointed out, people have their own lives to lead. i know here inside the beltway we think that politics is the most important thing anybody

could possibly do and care about. but outside the beltway people have their families and their softball leagues, churches and their jobs to worry about. that is why usually there is a fairly low electrical of participation at the town hall meetings. so, when you see this many more people showing up, you are seeing that many more people taking time out of their private lives, away from their families to participate in the democratic process. i think that is what those inside the beltway need to focus on, not the spin about it being phony grass roots. these are real people who have taken extra time. host: huntington, new york, michael on with max pappas. caller: thank you so much and good morning, c-span. my question is, first of all, as far as your statement about competition state to state, i had a person on c-span one other time and she pointed out each state has their own regulatory

system and that businesses out of state would not be able to flow under it. therefore, the idea that you could have competition state to state would not work. secondly, as far as socialist systems and the competition from a government run system the best system in the world it seems number one and we are somewhere around 36 in our quality of healthcare, is france which is entirely social ills. we pay twice as much as they do per person for healthcare. how can you justify this basically sale of the healthcare system to monopolies and say this is good for the american people? and please let me stay on and respond to your response. host: thanks. guest: the points about not being able to compete over state lines is peculiar to healthcare. i think all i have to do is point out starbucks and mcdonald's as two examples of

businesses that compete across state lines. it is a peculiar regulation to healthcare and if we could have something like what we have with mcdonald's or starbucks where you have them in every state that is what i'm talking about brings instant competition. host: caller, go ahead. sfwloo that is impossible because there must be regular litted inside the state. you would have to eliminate the state's capability of regulating themselves. so what you are talking about is not possible. host: mr. pappas. guest: it is. almost every other business does that. what wouldn't happen is if the wig industry in minnesota has managed to get its business part of the mandate list for health insurance doesn't mean that you are going to have to pay for insurance that covers wigs in iowa. so the list of mandates you pay for will be different. host: newton, mississippi, now, robert on the independent line. you are on with max pappas. caller: i want to know one

thing. why should people be treated like a business? i listen to you the conservative groups, all your people have done is get together, e-mail a lot of people, told them to go out, say these things, disrupt these meetings and you say this is not racist? it is against one person, president obama. it is against everything he is trying to do. you loud mouths like rush limbaugh, sean hannity, all these other folks that you listen to daily, even my good friend joe scarborough, it is ridiculous. all you are trying to do is disrupt something a needs to be done for all people. not just your people and the people you e-mail and try to get something done to disrupt something. host: let's hear from our guest.

guest: we have been opposing big government for 25 years. doesn't matter who is proposing it. we proposed many of george bush's policies that were encroachments into people's lives. we opposed bill clinton's tax hikes. we opposed george bush role one's tax hikes. it has nothing to do with president obama. it has to do with healthcare reform going in the wrong direction. we've got a lot of ideas and none of them is it the current legislation and we think it takes it entirely in the wrong direction so we are opposed to the policy. host: how many members does freedomworks claim? >> we have over 700,000 members that we have built up the last 25 years. host: free to join? guest: yes, assign up on the website and we will send you weekly e-mails. as you get more involved our guys in the d.c. office will call to see how additionally you can be participating.

we do phone trees where the d.c. office will call the top guys saying get your guys to call these and we do a phone tree down. it is a very expensive way to participate. host: what other issues are you mainly involved with? guest: cap and trade is another one we have done a lot of work on. we see that as a giant energy tax that the environmentalists question whether it will have any outcome they would like to see in terms of carbon emissi emissions. that with healthcare are taking up a lot of time. we were heavily involved in the opposition of stimulus this spring. last october we got 70,000 petitions to the white house opposing the wall street bailout. host: are you considered a lobbying organization? guest: no, we are a 501-c-3. host: what feedback are you getting from members from the

town halls, members of congress and members of your organization? because we are likely to see this continue, aren't we? guest: yes, i think so. i think it will be a long august for the members of congress. i think the most interesting thing we are hearing from members in the states is the idea that, wow, we never see this many people on our side at the town halls. because our guys are part of the little group that shows up that is part of the core of 25 that the congressmen see. and i think a lot of times they feel like they are on their own. now they are seeing more people show up with their own hand-painted signs and they sort of feel like they are part of a bigger thing now. so i think they are excited. i think they are glad to see that camaraderie. host: orange, park, florida on the republican line. caller: good morning, gentlemen. as a true republican, sir, you say you have got the power to get these people out there through e-mails. i called you and challenged you

to send an e-mail today to tell these people to wrap it down. we republicans already have the image of being old by corporate. now we are getting the image of being owned by wild america. look at these crowds. i'm looking at one of them right now. evidently most of them are on medicare. at the same time you see no minorities, no blacks, no hispanics. that is the groups we have to get back in our party. it is just by -- i tell friends of mine, which i'm 100% disabled veteran, 73 years old, on v.a. it is a socialistic system. most of my friends are on medicare, which according to you and your group is a socialistic system. i tell my friends, or strangers i meet some of the things i know

about our party and they say where did you hear that. i said sean hannity, rush limbaugh. they laugh at me. everybody thinks these rush limbaugh and sean hannity and all these radio talk people have all of this power. they are nothing but a joke. this new guy, what is his name, i can't remember his name on fox news. he comes on at 5:00. he is a madman. guest: we don't have the power to control how many people turn out or how they behave there. all we really do is facilitate their participation by letting people know when the town halls are and giving tell information about the subjects. the passes are so tydeep we can send out an e-mail that says calm down. there are a lot of americans who, i think, agree with the idea that henry david thoreau

sadist oi sa said disobedience is true liberty and they realize they have to raise their voices and it is too bad that it gets to that but it shows the frustration people have. they go to the town hall and hear the spin. i think the senator specter town hall was a gooding of what was getting to people. he would say we need to consider these things quickly and pass them fast. people don't want that. host: more pictures and write-ups from town halls. here is the "new york post." congressman anthony weiner democrat talking with senior citizens on healthcare at a half empty community center in queens. they say it came of little notice and was free of the angry protests. that is new york city. here is the front page of the "detroit free press." healthcare forum turns raucous. advocate john dingell tries to

defend reform proposal. was greeted with jeers and cheers as he tried to explain why change in the healthcare system has he has advocated more than a half century makes sense. there is a photo of a dan thompson of canton, michigan, yelling during the town hall. next call for max pappas of freedomworks, north little rock, arkansas. nancy on the democratic line. caller: the only thing that i have to say is it has already been well public iized that the republicans have sent out memos directing their people on how to disrupt the town hall meetings. now, i have one thing to say about that. you can yell, you can scream, you can encourage your people to go and you can sit there with that silly little smirk on your face, sir, and i'm going to say one thing to you.

until you are ready to sit down and have a serious discussion about healthcare reform and the idea that in all of this time the only thing that a republican group has come up with is to buy insurance across state lines? how many republicans and republican congresses have been in there? host: is there any more flesh you want to put on your thoughts about healthcare? guest: sure. there are reams and reams of paper on proposals for healthcare reform. host: we also, by the way, have a tweet that wants more detail from you. guest: we would like to see an expansion of health savings accounts where people have high deductible insurance and have money in a savings account instead of the money going to the insurance company your employer puts it into an account you own and control and you have insurance to cover the most expensive things, say above $2,000 and you get $150 a month

into the savings account so you have the $2,000 quickly. that puts a real market mechanism in healthcare that we don't have right now. nobody knows how much it costs to go for a check-up except the co-pay. if you had a co-pay on milk you would probably buy more milk. you could have tort reform where you get the lawsuits under control in healthcare. as i mentioned buying across state lines those are three that could have a large impact and combined could bring down the cost of health insurance so more could have it and cost of healthcare so the premiums would continue to be low. and that, by the way, according to the c.b.o., neither of those is done by the bill that was passed out of senator kennedy's chamber in the senate. i think that is also part of the frustration is we hear the rhetoric about lowering costs and getting more people insured and the legislation moving

according to the congressional budget office doesn't do that. host: hobart, indiana. george on the india line. caller: good morning, gentlemen. glad you took my call. i just don't understand for one thing, mr. pappas. how come there is no flexibility between the parties when i have -- my wife and i have two insurance companies, employer insurance companies and we are consumed almost virtually 20% of our gross income, we are not talking about shared costs. or pharmaceutical or anything catastrophic that would happen to us. we are still going to be placed into bankruptcy. why isn't there some sort of consideration? why can't the two chambers of the house come to some sort of compromise to where we are put

in a sunset or triggering mechanism to where we could try this new system of universal healthcare coverage? i don't want to use socialism because it is such a key word, a buzzword for a lot of medicaid and medicare people. they think that they are not part of the socialist medicine group. guest: what george just shared with us, i think, is very important and it reminds me of my parents' own situation. my parents live in massachusetts where they have a model of what is being considered in congress and my mom said to me the other day she wishes that her health insurance premium only doubled the last couple of years. it has gone through the roof. they are both self-employed, trying to figure out how to pay for it. so these are really problems and i hope they come to a compromise on the hill and i hope had he

don't do what they did in massachusetts which is harm my parents which would harm so many more. so this is an important issue and it is a false dichotomy to say those that don't support what is currently being proposed don't want reform. we want roreform. host: cookeville, tennessee. caller: i want to make three quick points because i know you are busy and i appreciate c-span. first i want to let people know this is a free enterprise system. it is not up to me as a taxpayer to pay for your health insurance. i thought that we had welfare reform back in the 1990's and we said the rights of people to be on welfare was over. number two, health insurance is not a right. there is nothing in the constitution about health insurance. if you want it, you pay for it. back in the 1940's 90% of people didn't have health insurance. we have come a long way.

the third thing i want to point out to you is if you look at the countries that do have the universal healthcare program they pay a lot higher taxes than we document they pay some of them up to 60% or 50% of total income is tax. and the guy who said they want to demonize republicans, i say shame on democrats for putting this ad out trying to say that we are trying to destroy their party. the truth is there. we have a right to speak or minds. thank you. host: final thoughts on the town hall meetings. guest: well, all the attention has been on a memo saying the right is trying to get the people to disrupt town hall meetin meetings. i went on to the afl-cio website and they have a group healthcare for americans now and they claim that they have been generating

grassroots activism all year on healthcare. they claim to have sent 7,500 people to capitol hill to protest on healthcare and in their memo they have a point that says do not debate on their policy points and two interrupt them on talking points. so the idea that only the right is trying to generate people is false. the unions have been pushing people out. but there are more people showing up opposed to what is being suggested. so, i think that is a good gauge for what is going on. the call also mentioned other countries. i lived in england for a while in the 1990's and i would repeatedly see signs that said nurse shortage and bed shortage and they have nationalized healthcare. so, it is all free but you get the shortages that you see a lot and to sum rimer summa rice yoi

expensive now wait until you see when if is free. we will continue this in a few minutes. >> employment numbers are being released. the commissioner of the bureau of labor statistics will talk about them with the joint economic committee. live coverage from capitol hill in about an hour on c-span 3. you can watch at c-span.org. here right after "washington journal" the deputy secretary of iraq's counsel of reserves talks about issues facing the government. that is 10:00 a.m. eastern.

the phenomenon of facebook best selling author on the success of this social networking site and how it tore two best friends apart. part of c-span 2's book tv weekend. sunday frank rich reflects on 15 years of political columns for "new york times" including his look at the future of the internet. the whitewater hearings and his column following 9/11. that is sunday night on c-span. host: our guest is elise hogue from moveon.org. what does moveon.org want to see happen on the hill? what kind of healthcare became does it want? >> our members have been strong advocates for true healthcare reform the heart of which is a public health insurance option. by real we mean ready on day

one, everyone is covered. accountable to the population and large enough to compete with the controlling interests of the market. host: do you think you will get it? guest: i think we have a shot. this is the heart of president obama's plan. we have seen versions in the health bill. we have seen congressmen organizing, the congressional progressive caucus with their 57 signatures saying the final bill needs to have a public health insurance option. the bottom line is most americans want a public health insurance option. we have seen 70% of americans say that this is the plan that will work to solve the current healthcare crisis. host: we are here in washington in a very quiet august. it is outside the country. around the country we have been talking about the town hall

meetings. they are all over the news. what do you make of what you are seeing? guest: we are seeing town hall meetings being hijacked by right wing extremists with ties to corporate interests. we have seen the evidence that a lot of this is being funded by astro turf organizations like freedomworks who you just had your guest and most recent scandal that has ties to the coal industry. and i think americans are tired of our political discourse being dominated by special interests and right wing extremists. so we are hearing a lot from members all over the country. we have members in all 50 states and they understand august is the time to make their voices heard. host: what role does moveon.org have? you talked about freedomworks. what role does moveon.org play? guest: we've five million

members across the country and we have local councils organizing both our members but also the 70% of americans who want a public health insurance option to say now is the time to step up and make your voice heard. we've got the majority of public opinion on our side and there are the risk is in that this local minority dominates the political debate in august and our elected representatives don't hear from the folks who want true healthcare reform. so, our councils are absolutely mobilizing in every state to turn out to town halls. but we're also organizing with small business leaders that have stepped up for real healthcare reform so we are doing small business roundtables. we have been on the ground organizing for healthcare reform for months and months. we did 140 rallies for public health insurance options just two weeks ago.

our members are engaged citizens who know how to turn up and speak about what they want and we will see that a.m. my fiampl. host: you have an ad. >> if we are able to stop obama on this it will be his waterloo. while the president is trying to make healthcare affordable the republicans are doing nothing. actually worse than nothing turning it into a political football. tell congress this isn't a game. host: anything you want to add there? guest: absolutely. the purpose for that ad was to point out the fact that while 70% of americans want a public health insurance option almost all americans understand the

urgent healthcare crisis that we are in and instead looking for solutions we are seeing republicans leadership play politics with an issue that matters to people who are losing their homes and can't pay healthcare bills. host: calls for ilyse hogue. debby up first. democrats line. caller: i wanted to make the point that 30 krecents of every healthcare dollar goes to the insurance industry and to administer medicare, which is o so-called the socialist run by the government program is only 2 cents. i can't afford to pay 28 more cents to pay for healthcare. guest: absolutely, debbie. we couldn't agree with you more. when the opposition talks about the cost of healthcare they are not talking about the millions of dollars that insurance industry executives make in bonuses every year. there is an enormous amount of

waste to be cut from the system that has been set up by the special interests in our country. most americans understand that an investment in a true public health insurance option will lower costs for all americans. host: the caller mentioned the insurance companies. business week cover story health reform why measurers are winning. -- why insuraners are winning. guest: what they don't have on their side is the real honest citizens in america that are fed up with the system as it stands. we know we are going to make their voices heard. host: next call republican line from baltimore. is it semi? caller: yes, thank you. i will tell you what i'm fed up with. i'm fed up with organizations like yours that is highly political and comes on the air an pretends to not be political.

you spend all your time destroying the bush administration and now you are supporting everything that obama has done. let me just tell you that i have had the opportunity to live in a different country under a different system and comparing and contrasting, i know that the american system is the best because people from africa, from asia, they come to this country to get the best healthcare system. and when you destroy the coun y country, tell me where else can i go? i can't go to europe, can't go to canada. this is the only country that is left. so you destroy this country, i have nowhere else to go. guest: well, i can tell you, that our five million members believe this is the most wonderful country in the world and part of the reason is

because ordinary citizens can make their voices heard for what they want. we had a referendum on the bush administration in 2008 where voters overwhelmingly said they want the reform gender and the change obama has promised. following through with that on the health insurance plan that covers all americans is critical to keeping our country wonderful and strong. host: louisiana. jackie on the independent line. caller: good morning. i know we only have a few seconds. i would like to ask this. you just stated to the gentleman that just called that people have a right to express their feelings and their opinions. how come when you come on and i realize i'm from louisiana and everybody seems to think in the south we are a bunch of dixiecrats and right wing extremists. that is the furthest thing from the truth. i'm 53 years old, mother, white,

grandmother. we have raised our kids and done what our communities asked to us do. you are trying to tell me that the solution that is coming out of washington for reform, we understand what it costs. but you are trying to tell me that i'm a right wing extremist? i have never went to a rally. i don't belong to any organization and for the first time in my life at 53 i went to one in baton rougeous to see what it was -- baton rouge just to see what it is like. guest: well, jackie, i'm from the south so i'm sensitive to the stereotypes of southern people. i'm from texas. we do see the type of of hate that we saw implemented at the palin rallies happening in these town halls and we absolutely agree and try to provide for honest discourse that gets us to the solutions. that is why we are activating

everybody to create a civil space to work through the tough issues on healthcare reform. it is impossible to do that when you have the kind of news reports coming out of some of the districts where meetings have to be shut down because many of the so-called tea ba backers or birthers are screaming down the folks who want to have a real conversation about what health care reform looks like. host: our last guest called this ad shocking. it is from the d.n.c. about a minute long. it is called "enough of the mob." >> the right wing experienced republican base is back. they lost the election. they lost the recovery act. the budget and children's healthcare. they have lost the confidence of the american people after eight years of failed policies that ruined the economy and cost millionless of jobs. desperate republicans and well

funded allies are organizing angry mobs like during the election. their goal, destroy president obama and stop the change americans voted for overwhelmingly in november. >> it will break him. >> i hope he fails. >> this mob activity is straight from the playbook of high level republican political operatives. they have no plan for moving our country forward so they have called out the mob. >> i want to know why you people ignore these instruction kits. >> call the republican party. tell them you have had enough of the mob. host: d.n.c. ad there. high numbers of people at these town hall meetings, lots of emotions. at what point does it become a mob? >> well, i think it becomes a mob when again you are crowding out the kind of debate and discourse that allows to us move to solutions. that is not our ad. that is a d.n.c. ad.

but i think there are points of agreement. you have memos being issued from washington, d.c. about how to disrupt town halls. that is not the american way. the america that we believe in actually allows people to sit down and talk about their differences an move toward solutions. the republicans have offered no solutions. they have offered a path of political defeat of obama. host: frazier, michigan, on the line. laura, democrat line. are you there? caller: hello. host: go ahead. caller: i'm a maryland resident and me and a friend of mine attended a town hall in oxon hi hill, maryland because we doesn't find one in baltimore. we went to see firsthand what was going on and with the intent of supporting congresswoman edwards because i don't appreciate our elected officials being shouted down. yes, we all have an opinion.

but nobody has the right to impose their rights of or impose on my right to speak my view. and the far right wing at this meeting it was, she held it, she did a good job and we were there to support her and we said let's be respectful and for the most part it was. but all of the right wing group that was there was a talking point from rush limbaugh, sean hannity and glen beck. host: anything you want to add? guest: no, i think the call makes a great point. one thing that i think we are hearing just like from the caller is that the right wing may have overreached and when they are spewing hate and shouting down the american tradition of debate in these town halls they are going to make sure that the 70% of americans who want a public health insurance option and many

more that want true healthcare reform are going to show up and make sure their voices are heard. host: newport. tennessee. martin on the republican line. caller: good morning. i'm a disabled vietnam vet veteran and i also have medic e medicare. in 2006 the stock market was at 14,000. gas prices were $1.56 a gallon. the oil was $46 a barrel. the democrats took over the congress and senate, and since then we have gradually went downhill, downhill. on the medicare part, if the government ran it so good why do i have to have a supplemental insurance with my medicare? it is a private insurance. and the v.a., when i go to the

v.a. it takes me from three to six months to get an appointment. if the government can run the healthcare so good, why does this happen? guest: absolutely, we have seen the economic situation decline. i think that if you look at the whole picture, this is something that started long before the democrats took control of congress and we are looking at real solutions to get out of it. one of the real solutions is a public health insurance option that allows americans the choice of staying with their current insurer or going with the government plan. and this will increase competition which will bring prices down for everyone. one thi one thing that we have seen the white house released a report about the impact this will have on small businesses which are the backbone of the american economy. small businesses no longer have to choose between covering employees or laying people off.

the healthcare reform will help them get our economy back on track and force private insurers to compete. host: jobless numbers are out. 9.4% last month. what does that mean to you? guest: i think president obama has said this is a long road to recovery. it took a long time to get in this situation and the health reform plan is one component of what we are going to need to see. we've got a clean energy jobs bill making its way through, we need a holistic approach and we see the administration pursuing that but we have an economic crisis and we have to address it first where it is hitting americans hard which is in their health insurance. host: is the stimulus plan working? guest: uh, the stimulus plan has opinion a great start -- has been a great start, i think. there is evidence that shows that people are starting to feel the recovery.

but again the stimulus plan is just one piece of the puzzle about how we get out of the economic crisis we are in and the other pieces are currently making their way through congress. that is one of the points that we are here to make, is that we can't afford the delay in the stalling techniques that the republicans have engaged because the clean energy jobs bill, the healthcare reform bill, all of them have an impact on the economic crisis we are in and it must be addressed. host: back to calls, clinton, missou missouri, larry on the independent line. larry, are you there? caller: yes, imshgs, i'm here. i would like to put up two or three questions. who funds moveon.org. guest: we are really proud that we are a federal political action committee and we are entirely member funded by our five million members. our average donation is $42 and

that makes us accountable to our grassroots. we don't take large checks from any foundations or individuals. so our members can contribute when they think we're doing great work and we are proud of that. caller: the actual answer to that question is george soros and you know it. now, after that, in the healthcare program that we have that is put forth by congress, on page 15 -- you can sit there and smirk all you want. on page 15 it will bring down the private insurance in the united states today over a period of time. now, for an american, a true american, not george soros, i say what is your answer to that? what is on page 15, do you know? guest: we are a federal pac and our donation records are open to

the public, so i respectfully dispute what the caller is saying. we are entirely member funded. the american system of free market economy allows for competition. if the government can do better with the public health insurance option people will choose that plan. if they feel good about what they are paying to the private insurers and we would say as one of callers said lining the pockets of insurance c.e.o.'s, they can stay with that. but competition is healthy for the economy and it makes sure that people are getting the most quality healthcare at the most affordable price. host: what do you make of costs and who should pay for this? and there is a cartoon, a picture of the president, an ambulance behind him saying boil care. it looks like sort of a messed up ambulance there. he is asking the taxpayer i want cash for this clunker. what do you make of that? guest: i think cost is a real

issue and is one being debated. but when you look at the congressional budget office numbers, when you look at all much the independent studies, what you see is that the current plan that is making its way through congress will reduce costs for almost all americans, and there is the surcharge question which i would point out only taxes the most wealthy, and at a fraction of what the bush tax cuts gave back to that top 2% in our population. so, we are just sort of taking baby steps back to leveling the playing field for working and middle class americans who desperately need healthcare reform. host: one tweet, we are supposed to believe all the different health plans are wasteful but the congress will come up with a perfect one? how much faith do you have in congress on this? guest: perfection is an aspiration and i hope we get there some day but i believe the

plan making its way through congress offers an alternative to the crisis that we are in and we will make more affordable healthcare available to more americans with the plan. host: birmingham, alabama, ron on the democrats' line. gloo tha caller: thank you. ma'am, i want to thank you for comi coming on. the last caller i want to apologize for him. what republicans need to realize you can't dog people and tell them because they disagree that they are not an american or they are wrong. just because a republican says it doesn't mean it is right. second, these town hall meetings, it is good to have a disagreement with somebody, but not to shout them town and not let them get their point across. that is not civilized. if i disagree with you, i need

to let you bring out your points and have a civilized discussion like human beings. they are going down a wrong road and they don't just continue to minimize their party because as you see at these rallies no minorities are there. if they are there, they are disagreeing with they will. no blacks, no hispanics. no asians. whatever you want to cull minorities, they are americans. we need to listen to each other. just because we hate prim fesid obama for trying to level the field. guest: i agree with the caller. i mean, one of the things i have heard some of the congress people who are dealing with these unruly town halls say, it appears from the memos coming from the republican groups they are afraid of honest discourse because we we have honest discourse we are going to find that the majority of americans really want this healthcare

reform package and the caller is absolutely correct. when people come they make their voices heard. the political momentum is on the side of obama's healthcare reform plan. host: edmonton, kentucky, charlie, republican caller. good morning to you. caller: good morning to you and thank you for c-span. i have just one question. maybe a small comment. it is hard for me to understand, ma'am, why, we someone who opposes your organization is a mob, yet folks that agree with your organization are protesters. like the last caller said, you don't have a right to shout down, but the opposing side, if it were not in the lead, would be shouting down and we know that is the truth. and i would like to comment that i organized a tea party protest in my hometown the 4th of july, there was not one corporate donation or organization that

was behind us. we had over 100 people in my small town and our organization, our group, was not protest being the healthcare -- we were not protesting the healthcare but we were protesting liberty. this effort of the federal government over every aspect of our life is not going to work. the two opposing forces in country will have to butt heads and come to a conclusion one day. we have a right to our opinion. it appears to me even though i try very hard not to be, i must be a right wing extremist racist big got. i have wrestled with that but i think i must be one. i really don't want to be. thank you very much. guest: we don't want you to be. we don't think that is good for the soul of our country. there are honest working americans with honest concerns about the plan and we need to hash those out if we are going

to come to agreement. however, what we have started to see is scary tactics like people character swastikas at rallies, and there was a democratic congressman in maryland who was hung in effigy. that is the hate that doesn't move us toward solutions. that is the hate that polarizes our country. we are now in a situation where people have got to sit down, understand the plan on the table, and come to solutions. because too many working and middle class americans are being hurt every day by the healthcare crisis. host: one last call from lake zurich, illinois. india line. bob. caller: you know david walker former comptroller of the office of government accountability, you heard what he has been saying about the unfunded liability of social security, medicare, medicaid. are you familiar with david walker, the former comptroller of the office of government accountability who has been

talking about the unfunded liabilities of social security, medicare, medicaid and the federal pensions? are you familiar with him? guest: i'm familiar but not -- caller: there are approximately $50 trillion to $60 trillion offen funded liability of those and i don't understand how you can expect to put another burden on the federal government if you want to see it in action. look at the post office. it is in dire straits and that is your government. now, one other thing i want to ask about moveon.org. it was very prominent in the anti-war protest when george bush was in office. now obama is in office and we don't hear a peep out of them. tell us about your anti-war position. guest: we are a member driven and our members' concerns are with healthcare, energy and the economic situation. we are obviously watching foreign policy to the extent that we are removing troops from

iraq. we support the president on that and we will continue to respond to what our members heed in the priorities of the country. host: ilyse hogue political advocacy and communications director of moveon.org. thanks for your time this morning. guest: thank you. host: in a minute the latest on the h1n1 flu. dr. anthony fauci will be with us. first another update from c-span radio. >> as mentioned the labor department reports that payroll has dropped by just 247,000 that is the fewest in a year and brings the nation's unemployment rate down to 9.4%. in an hour the joint economic committee reviews the findings and president makes remarks on the economy at 1:15 live. hear both live on c-span radio. the senate recesses today for a

five-week break but discussions. roll call says the six bipartisan negotiators on the senate finance committee have a schedule for teleconference meetings. when congress returns climate change legislation will be an issue. "new york times" reports that 10 moderate senate democrats from states invent on coal and manufacturing sent a letter to president obama yesterday saying that they would not support any climate change bill that doesn't protect industries from competition prosecute companies that don't have similar restraints. in iraq a police official says the number of people killed in a feud car bombing near a shiite mosque has climb to at least 20. the attacks are raising concerns that insurgents are trying to e reignite sectarian violence. in afghanistan nato says three of its troops were killed in a taliban attack. bringing to 18 the number of western troops killed in afghanistan in the month of

august. finally, an update on congress's purchase of leer jets. the "wall street journal" finds congress plans to spend $550 million to buy them when lawmakers have criticized the use corporate jets by companies receiving taxpayer funds. those are the latest headlines on c-span radio. .

guest: we know it is here, we know it is in a pandemic level. the interesting thing is if you follow its severity, it is acting more like a mild to moderate flu, if you compare it to the seasonal flus. so the expectation is since we are seeing outbreaks in camps and we are getting hit in the summer hit that -- in the southern hemisphere, it is highly likely that when we get back to the early fall and the kids go back to school, we will start to see a resurgence of it. how much, how intense, how severe, it is tough to say. we are going to be prepared for that in a variety of ways. we are expecting that and we are prepared for the worst. host: what is the preparation like? guest: if you talk about surveillance, which is one of the things, keeping an eye what is going on in the southern hemisphere and here in our own summer, because it has not gone away, you are talking about the development of vaccines and the

preparation of and getting ready to implement the vaccine program. in fact, just literally next week, monday and perhaps even today, we are going to start the vaccine trials that will give us the right idea of what the right dose is, what the short-term safety is going to be. we want good communication in letting people know, and good mitigation strategies if we are hit hard. in fact, i might mention that the pandemic preparedness plan was developed a couple of years ago in preparation for the h5n1 which never came. we are going to prepare for what is happening in the fall. host: the phone number at the bottom of the screen for dr. anthony fauci. we are talking specifically about the h1n1, so-called swine flu. we will take your calls in just a moment. dr. fauci, speak more about the

trials. you are saying they are basically under way. how will they work? what else do you hope to learn? how long does that process take? guest: the process takes a couple of months. these are vaccines made by the same companies by the same process that we do each year with seasonal flu, so this is something we are quite familiar with, so is not a brand new process. since it is a new virus and we have made a new vaccine for it similar to other vaccines, you want to ask fundamental questions and in a limited number of individuals with various age groups. the first question in the immediate sense is, is it safe? it is very unlikely that will happen, but you want to look any way. importantly, you want to know what the right dose is. do we do these standard dose we do during the seasonal flu, which we do every year? would you need a higher dose, one or two doses? hopefully we will get this information within a period of a couple of months, which will

help us launched an implementation program for the "novel" h1n1. the seasonal implementation will go on as it does each year anyway. host: is there enough infrastructure to manufacture enough vaccine for when you need it? guest: the answer is yes, in general. there is not enough infrastructure to get a dose for everyone in the world, and that will never happen, i do not think, from a practical, feasible standpoint. but in preparation for the pandemic possibility, we, the federal government, funded a number of companies to get the infrastructure in place to make enough vaccine to get us to where we would want to be where we to be hit with a pandemic flu. host: some of the numbers from the cbc about the h1n1 flu. the number of hospitalized cases here in the u.s., just over

5500. deaths reported, 353. the total number of states and territories reporting cases would be 47? guest: yes, plus some territories. guest: -- host: what is the difference between a pandemic and an epidemic? guest: an epidemic is an outbreak over and above what the standard level of disease is. a pandemic is an epidemic of disease widespread through multiple regions. if you had an outbreak of something here in washington, d.c., or perhaps in a few states in could be an epidemic. if it is all over the world, it is a pandemic. host: so it is more alarming when you say epidemic. guest: no doubt. host: republican line, chuck, you are on the air. caller: i have two short questions. how much is it going to cost us destitute americans after the economy is doing what it is

doing for these shots? what percentage of that goes to the obama administration? guest: the first question is that the federal government is purchasing these doses. unlike seasonal flu, where is made by companies and distributed to distributors and you have to buy either through health plans, the public has to buy the vaccines, but this is one the federal government has bought, so strictly speaking, it is not going to cost the general public anything to buy the vaccine. and there is no profit for the federal government. the obama administration or any situation, is there a federal government profit. in fact, the federal government has put out a few billion dollars to get this program going, as well as giving to the states about $350 million to preparedness both at the hospital and local levels. so it is the federal government putting money into it to make it

available for the american public as opposed to getting something out of it. host: so the average person wants to get this shot -- is free for them? guest: yes. that -- host: so they go to their doctor -- guest: the actual dose of the vaccine is purchased by the federal government. host: how will it be decided who gets the vaccine? you talk about kids going back to school. who else? guest: there are five target groups that has been decided upon among the committee will use, the cdc relies on, called the acip. we target five groups. pregnant women are at the top of the list because we see that pregnant women in general with the flu are prone to disease, and we're seeing that with the h1n1. those who are caregivers of

babies less than six months old. health-care workers and people on the front lines. young individuals who are healthy from six years old -- six months old to 24 years old. and then adults, non-elderly adults from 18-64 -- from 18 to 64 who have underlying conditions that compromise their immune response -- transplant patients -- people on drugs, people with diseases that compromise their pulmonary system. host: why not elderly? guest: it is not that they are gone -- it is not that they are not going to get the vaccine, but if you look at the history of the pandemic over in the last several months, it is appearing to spare the elderly in the sense of suggesting very strongly to us that people of an older age group have been exposed to a similar type virus or have been vaccinated with a vaccine that gives cross-

protection sometime earlier in their life whereas younger individuals were not even born then. so there seems to be much less of an impact in disease and severity among elderly individuals, so that is why they are not in the five target groups. host: bakersfield, california. billy, on the independent line. caller: i have two questions. it is -- is it going to be a non-mercury based method for my children? host: let me stop you there first and get an answer. guest: there are two types of vaccines that are going to be available, and the predominant one is the injectable one, which is the inactivated vaccine. the second one will be the seasonal flu vaccine program of what we call the one that you inhale, called flu mist. the marisol -- thimerosal --

there will be in some of the doses a trace of that because when you have a file that you have to inject multiple times, you want to make sure you have a preservative in there that does not cause bacterial contamination that will make things worse. but there will be pre-filled syringes for children that will be thimerosal free. caller: that is really good to hear. i would just suggest that you make enough doses available because that is the direction we want to go. the other question i have is a county center in question in that we have had some really terrible layoffs of people in the emergency preparedness area. we had one guy laid off -- i am terrified because here in the

county we are laying off the very people that we need, the most knowledgeable people, at a time in which we need them. i was wondering, is there going to be any emergency funding or some sort of direct federal assistance in getting the people most knowledgeable back on the ball? because we have just totally dropped the ball. guest: that is an excellent point that the caller made. in fact, we anticipated the difficulty that states and local authorities always had when you are dealing with a potential crisis like this. just a few weeks ago, the department of health and human services allocated and authorized a $350 million to be given to the state and local authorities, $90 million of which go to local hospitals to handle what the caller is talking about. host: you mentioned the five groups of people you recommend that the shot, but in the terms of number of doses, number of vaccines out there, what is the target? guest: the target in the first round is to ultimately get about

195 million doses. that is not all delivered at the same time in the fall, but over a period of time. the projection of having about 110 million, 120 million doses by mid october. i say that, that is the goal, hopefully we will get there. but when you are dealing with the production of a biological, you never can give an absolute guarantee number, but that is what we are hoping for, from 110 million. host: is there anything other people can do to avoid? guest: first of all, there is good respiratory hygiene. you hear about it, it is so low- tech that people do not pay attention to it. but if you get sick, you get a cold, you sneeze into a tissue, throw it away, you cough this way so that you do not spread it. if you are sick, you do not go to school, you do not go to work. a variety of issues.

if there is an outbreak, avoid crowded places if at all possible. so there are a number of things that can be done in anticipation or threw out a pandemic if you do not have a vaccine ready. host: robin is on the line from west virginia. republican column, you are on the line with dr. anthony fauci. caller: i have a few questions. isn't it good that we might not -- we see the shots. isn't it good that our own immune systems -- i mean, if you get something like chicken pox, you are already into it and you never get it again. isn't that also a good thing with these? not very many people have actually died from this flow. i do not understand why people are in such a panic about giving these -- getting the shots. guest: on any given year, with seasonal flu, forgetting pandemic flu, and i will get to

the point why we were rate -- or not worry, but are concerned more about a pandemic than we are concerned with seasonal flu. seasonal flu is in and of itself 8 serious disease. each year 36,000 americans die from seasonal flu, and there are 36 -- and there are thousands of hospitalization. so influence it is not a trivial disease. you bring up the very good point about chickenpox, you have lifelong immunity and never need a vaccine or any kind of that protection if you get it because your immune system will protect you. the difficulty with influence it is that even on a seasonal basis, it changes enough from year to year, and we call that a draft of the virus that you do not have full protection -- we call that a drift of the virus -- and sometimes, rarely, and influenza virus changes radically so that it becomes a virus to which there is very little experience in the

community and very little background community. we call that a pandemic strain, and that is exactly what we're seeing now with this novel h1n1. it is a virus for which there is very little background immunity. that is the reason why we are trying as best we can to get prepared for it with vaccines to be offered to the american public. host: annapolis, maryland. you are on the air. caller: i would like to make a couple of comments, and then can i ask a question before you cut me off? host: sure. caller: one of the college yesterday made a great point. the people are actually the government. this doctor you -- these doctor works for the government. i used to work at johns hopkins hospital for a research effort, and i also worked for the cdc, which are also the government. it seems like we are constantly being overshadowed by the past year -- by the pasteur

institute, which is operated by the french. also, i think it was 1976 because my grandmother insisted on me getting a shot and she remembers a fluke epidemic very well. -- she remembers a lflu epidemic. i was wondering, do i have any protection from that? guest: i have so many good colleagues from the pasteur institute in paris. it is a great institution. it does not overshadow the united states scientific establishment at all. we are good colleagues, but i think it would be a stretch to say overshadow us. the second is the issue with you and your receiving the 1976 swine flu vaccine. it is conceivable is not likely

that you have some cross- reacting immunity to the current circulating h1n1 strains. as a matter of fact, there is a good deal of similarity between the age 1 and one now in the swine h1n1 then. that could be why people in an older age group have some background in back -- some background immunity. we do not know that for sure, but it is quite feasible hypothesis. host: here is a question by twitter. "weren't the last few flu shots ineffective against the flu people contacted?" guest: each year when we make a decision, we being the federal government and the who, make a decision about what components to put into the seasonal flu, you tend to make a very educated guess about what the new strains that are circulating in the southern hemisphere toward the

end of the season, and we are right about 85% to 95 plus% -- to 95% plus. sometimes you have a mismatch between the strain you are using and the strain that is circulating. right now the strain in the southern hemisphere is no different when isolated then what we had in april of this year. we are hoping that that strain will stay as it has thus far over the last several months, exactly the same, so when we start seeing a return in the fall, the vaccine will be as perfect a match as we can get. host: portland, oregon, christina, independent line. caller: i have a question. going back to the allocation of resources, i remember reading somewhere when the swine flu had broken out that the prevention and aid of infectious diseases

in the original stimulus plan that the administration had proposed. that being said, i read about a week after the swine flu epidemic that that part of the package had eventually been cut down. is that true or false? well, it is not completely true at all. as a matter of fact, the national institutes of health, the institution that i represent, and i directed one of the institute's -- the stimulus money that we have received as part of that broad $787 billion stimulus that the nih received about $10 billion of that, and the component that went into the infectious disease institute, we used a considerable amount of that for preparations in the vaccines that we discussed. host: explain the connection with the who, the world health organization, with states, localities, schools. how does that thread work?

guest: the who is an overarching organization that involves all the countries in the world. they are more a coordinator of health issues that go beyond borders of countries, so we are in constant communication with the who about matters such as what we are discussing today. the agencies of the federal government, if you take the health and human services agency, of which governor sebelius is the secretary of, that has a number of components that are continually interacting with each other, such as the center for disease control, cdc, fda, nih, a variety of other groups. we are working closely with the department of education because this involves schools, the department of homeland security, and the white house. the cdc has a close connection with state and territorial health officials, so the link between the federal government and what goes on at the local

level is very strongly channeled through the cbc. so it really is a nice network that talks to each other and interdigitate quite well. host: if you are a parent or pregnant or any one of the five groups that you recommended getting the shot, who should you be calling? guest: it is the local level. we just described the change that goes down from health and human services to education to state and local officials. the local health authorities in a state or a city are the people who will be responsible for how this is going to be distributed? where can i get my vaccine? what should i do vis a vis the schools? in a pinch, the website for the cdc is really terrific. if you go in and go flu.gov or cdc.gov/flu, there is

information there. host: next call, hi there. caller: i have not had a flu shots since the mid-1970s house when the gerald ford hong kong flu debacle happened. do you have a study who people and it -- of people who do not receive flu shots on a yearly basis, and as someone in my age group? guest: first of all, 1976 was not hong kong flu. it was the swine flu of 1976, but i get your point. certainly people who do not get a flu vaccine -- that does not mean that they are going to get the flu, or they may have enough background immunity if they get exposed to the flu, and they actually do not get infected or ill. we certainly have done studies over the years, and the studies point to the fact that your chances of getting the flu, if you do not get vaccinated, are clearly greater than if you do

get vaccinated. that is the study that we do whenever we get involved with a new vaccine, and they are usually done after the season or during the season. having said that, there is no guarantee at all, and you are one of them. you are lucky, good for you. you have done quite well without a vaccine, and you have not gotten the flu. but if you do a statistical analysis of a, the chances if you are -- but if you do a statistical analysis of it, the chances of you getting the flu if you are not protected is greater than if you do get it. i think the media has a considerable role, and one of the four pillars of the hhs is communication. one of the best ways to communicate is through the media. they provide an excellent vehicle -- they provide an excellent vehicle. they have kept it on the front burner. some people say we are making you panic by seeing it in the

newspaper all the time. but i think what we're seeing in the media is a really up to date, real time being on top of the issue that should not be interpreted as being panicked. it should be interpreted as being all over the issue so that in case something does happen that is very serious, we are prepared for it. my response is that the media has done a good job and i hope they keep up. host: plug in health care reform, the potential for major legislation on the hill later this year. what is the connection between the two? guest: everything is connected to the issue of some people not having access to health care, so anytime you have the situation where there is a disease that can impact the large number of people, a certain percentage of those people who do not have health care insurance, do not have access to good health care, will suffer disproportionately. so health care reform is positive in many ways.

it becomes a real life positive when you're dealing with something like this. host: duluth, minnesota, mary ann, good morning. caller: nice to talk to you. some of my questions were answered by people ahead of me, so i want to ask you this. we have a 2-year-old granddaughter, and i have not heard you mention at all tamiflu. what about that? what is the dosing schedule? guest: well, let me just mention tamiflu. tamiflu is a drug that is used in influenza. it is shown to be effective at decreasing the intensity and the duration of symptoms. the policy with anti-viral drugs for something which we are preparing for now, namely a

large number of individuals getting infected, should be done with some thought and in a measured response. so if someone gets a mild symptoms and is in a situation where there is fluke and that person is otherwise healthy, you do not miss -- where there is flu and that person is otherwise healthy, you do not need to -- if someone is seriously ill with it and has symptoms that are compromising the person, without a doubt that person should be treated. the other group is if you are a vulnerable individual -- namely, you are among the risk people who would tend to do more poorly, and you get infected with the h1n1 flew or any -- with the h1n1 flu, then you should get it. those of the people i mentioned a little while ago who are among

the list of people at heart risk of complications. those are the people who want to be very ready to treat them if they get infected with h1n1 or any influenza. host: we have joseph on the line from maryland. caller: hi, dr. fauci. isn't honor to speak with you. i know you are -- it is an honor to speak with you. i know you are an important research. i guess the question i have for you is maybe a little off one. i notice paranoia i guess you could say among the a.m. radio crowd or the alternative media groups that are very afraid of vaccination probably in general. also, the idea that there could be sterilants or something. i know mercury is an issue.

also there is something about the government forcing people to take things. i was wondering if you have any comments on this. guest: let me take the first question in the first issue. there will not be any mandated or compulsory vaccinations, vis a vis, influenza. there is an issue regarding vaccinations that some people are suspicious about, and i think it is an understandable lack of appreciation of the seriousness of the disease you are trying to prevent. when people are in a society in which there are not diseases that there were decades ago that killed and maimed people -- diseases like measles, polio, diseases that are very, very serious potentially -- hepatitis -- they do not see a lot of disease around them because the

vaccines have been actually successful. so when you are trying to get people to be vaccinated, they look at the potential risks, some of which are very rare. that is something that we have to do a better job of educating people to realize the risk of not getting vaccinated. when you are dealing with an influenza like now, there is no doubt that this virus is out there circulating throughout the world, so i think it will be easier to convince people to get vaccinated now when they start seeing and reading in the newspaper what is going on in argentina, australia, new zealand, south africa. there is a lot of disease there, and we're seeing it in our own country. - host: the secretaries of health and human services, homeland security, education, and the head of the cdc will be there. we will show it to you later. why are we likely to hear from them as far as flu and high

schools and what the government is expecting? guest: i think the broad issues which will be discussed -- they certainly will discuss, could the schools be involved as part of the distribution process of the vaccine? is that an easy, convenient way or not to get the vaccine to be distributed? the other point that will without a doubt come up is that there are issues of school closings in various parts of the country in the spring. so we will be hearing perhaps some guidelines about what one should consider in the issue of closing schools or not. i think that will likely be discussed. i do not know exactly what they are going to say, but i think it will be open for discussion. host: stafford, virginia, independent line. caller: good morning, dr. fauci. i read in the 1970's when we had the swine flu vaccine, one of

the side effects was -- my son had it. should he get the swine flu vaccine this time? guest: if your son had back hundred -- to that country indication, it is a country indication of vaccinating. -- it is a contra-indication of vaccinating. we have not seen it before or subsequent to 1976, anybody who has that propensity for that kind of reaction should avoid it. host: maryland, high there. caller: thank you for taking my call. what makes a virus seasonal? how does it know it is the right season? if it is a fall and winter season here, is it a spring and summer disease in the southern hemisphere?

guest: if it is fall and winter here, it is spring and summer in the other hemisphere. in answer to the first part of the question, it is likely, though not 100%, multiple factors, one of which is that in the fall and winter, people tend to congregate in close places with poor ventilation, but also viruses do better in dry, cold climates as opposed to warm, humid climates. so when is a warm, humid summer with people outdoors, the virus does not do as well. host: dr. anthony fauci, thank you for the update on h1n1. we will take a short break and round out the show with calls on the economic situation. we will hear from individuals around the country and individual cities as well as we talk with reporters. the new jobless numbers are out,

and we will start with a portion of robert gibbs, the white house press secretary, talking about unemployment in this country. we will be right back. >> understand that the unemployment figures only the note, as you said, people that continue to work, look for, and do not consider themselves so unlikely to find work that they have stopped looking. i do not know that one figure, whether it is those that have stopped, those that are under- employed, those that wish to be working full time and are working part-time, or just those that simply the bureau of labor statistics say are employed or unemployed -- i do not know if one number in and of itself can tell the story of economic devastation we have seen in the

concern the president has for getting the economy back on track and creating jobs. >> if you are out of work and the only thing you can find is 20 hours a week at starbucks or whatever, that is not exactly a full-time job. >> again, it is not for me to say or to judge the efficacy of each -- or what each figure delineates. the president will be concerned about joblessness for as long as there are people that want to work and cannot find it, whether that number is an unemployment rate, whether that is the number of people that can only find that 20-hour job at starbucks and wish they could find a 40- hour-a weak job. host: here is the new number, 9 win 4%.

the number -- 9.4%. we want to take your call, specifically for people who are unemployed, under-employed, and you can define what that is if you are under-employed underemployed or unemployed, only for this segment. if you lose in the east or central time zones, call 202- 737-0001. if you live out west, call 202- 737-0002. the ap reports that employers throttle back on layoffs in july, cutting just 247,000 jobs. the fewest in a year, and the unemployment rate dipped to 9.4% and took it was better than expected and offered a strong signal that the recession is finally ending. the new snapshot released by the labor department today also offered encouraging news -- workers ouhours nudged up

after sinking to a record low in june, and paychecks grew. to be sure committee reports still indicates the jobs market is on shaky ground. the new figures were better than many analysts were expecting." 1 city we want to check on is cleveland, where olivera perkins rights for "the cleveland plain dealer," a business reporter there. explain to us what these current situation is in in ohio. guest: ohio's unemployment figures will not come out for another couple of weeks, but the figures for june, ohio cost of unemployment rate was 11%. so is going to be interesting to see if there will be a drop. what does it mean to be living with 10% unemployment, but fortunately we do not have to discuss that. in is interesting, someone

mentioned the whole issue of starbucks. i know in interviewing people for stories that i do on unemployment, there was great distress, people feeling that they could not find jobs. one woman i interviewed said i always felt that at the corner drug store chain i could get a job there, i could get a job at starbucks, and even those dried up. but in recent months, it seems that people did not seem as distressed. they feel a little more optimistic because if they have not found jobs, they know other people that have found jobs. of course, the unemployment rate is based not only on jobless claims but also the current population survey, which the u.s. census bureau does come and take a survey of 60,000 households. one of the question they ask is are you actively looking for work. i know there has been a debate about when people feel things

are turning around and feel they have a chance of finding a job, they will say yes, i am, versus, no, i am not looking. some view and implement rates going up not necessarily -- it may actually be a silver lining in that cloud, and it comes to the debate here. but things in cleveland and ohio are still pretty bleak. we are at 11.1%. that was for june, so we are still higher. we will find out what that means in a couple of weeks in terms of if there has been a reversal of that, if we are slowing down here. you know, there are glimmers of hope. today, a steel mill that has been offline for a few months is probably going to start rehiring, so i guess the bottom line is there are conflicting figures. host: stimulus money -- how much

of that came to cleveland, ohio, and has there been any effect? guest: at this point, ohio is slated to get more than $8 billion of stimulus money, some of which has already been released, but it has been really slowly. so a lot of people are saying it has been some time before we see an immediate impact. it ranges from everything from paying the salaries of cops for three years to extended unemployment benefits to the road projects we have heard about, whether recession and other things. -- weatherization and other things. most say it will be 2010 or 2011 before the effects are felt. host: olivera perkins, thank you for the update. your calls now -- unemployed and underemployed. we would like to hear your

situation and your own alcohol. there is this headline in "the new york times" that came out -- we would like to hear your situation in your own point of view. you are on the air. caller: i am going to bring up an issue that we never hear about in the press and the media. it is called trade readjustment allowance. they are drawing a blank on in this issue and do not have any answers, especially being in the detroit area. my plan -- i have called before, and it has been more than 30 days since i have called. but i was called back in june of 2007 and i worked 10 weeks to close a plant, and that gave me an extension on my opponent. i have been drawing unemployment benefits since december of 2006,

and we are coming into the year 2010. on the 29th, my benefits expire d. i went through a year, over a year of medical assistance program for retraining. during that time you have to go through on-the-job training that you receive benefits, you get a weekly amount, plus they pay for the school. my school is unable to place me in any position where they are hiring. i was at sinai hospital, they are not hiring. host: what is your outlook then? caller: is really bad. the social benefits unit people from downtown that i talked to earlier said probably they will not extend regular ua benefits. i am one of the fortunate few that was a steelworker, and they will put me in what is called remedial training, which is a

keyboarding class in which i will get another -- i will get money on top of it. i still cannot even find a job. host: todd, thank you for calling. let's hear from france, jacksonville, florida. -- from fran, a jacksonville, florida. what is your reaction to 9.4% unemployment? caller: my reaction is one of not really surprise. my personal story is, having been unemployed for nearly two years now, i am a casualty of offshoring to india. host: what kind of work? caller: i was in the financial industry, so a lot of i.t. jobs, that type job, went offshore. now, fortunately, i pretty much

knew it was coming. we had a couple of years' notice that this might happen, and i had been on my job for more than 25 years. i am 50 years old. this is a real issue for people my age because of the health insurance. i did get probably a decent severance package, and once michael berg benefits ran out and i surely could not find a job -- and once my cobra benefits ran out, and i could not find a job -- host: what is the outlook looks like in north florida now? caller: it looks like some of the people who left are anticipating having to leave as well -- who are left are anticipating having to leave as well because of the bank mergers and they are hoping for attrition and they are thinking they are going to have to let go

of more people, that kind of thing. so some of my friends whose jobs survived are looking for their jobs to be automated as well. host: a little bit from this lead piece in the new york times, "in a report card on the stimulus plan offered by analysts, nearly six months after it was passed by congress, suggest that the punch from increased government spending has helped the economy begin to bottom out faster than it would have otherwise. the tax cuts included in the plan, economists said, had less of an impact because people tend to save money or use it to pay down debt rather than spend it. the effectiveness hon of the stimulus is a pressing concern. the outlook remains murky, but

still analysts say the impact while small is discernable pickup detroit, michigan, james, you are on the air. caller: you know, i am a news junkie. i love c-span, i love to hear people called in with their comments. but you know, i am ashamed of these republicans. it does not make any sense. your representative comes to your area, he is representing in washington, and people want to drown him out. nobody gets anything out of the town hall meetings if these mobsters comment and yell and holler and try to shout these people down. that is not america. that is not what i fought for. we know that the speaker, whoever he is, when he has the podium, he should be allowed to speak. there should not be mob rule. and i think when you look at rush limbaugh who makes $53

million last year. he just continues to use this hate mongering on the air. sean hannity, glenn beck calling the president a racist -- that is not right. we ought to be able to come together and understand what is happening. people in my area are being called back to work. chrysler, gm, right here in detroit. a lot of people are being called back to work, and i think what the president is doing is as well a job that he can. but i sure would like to see some of these republicans get behind the president, get behind their representative, instead of trying to beat them up. talk to them. host: thank you for sharing your situation with us. here is a twitter message. "i started to notice more job postings last week. have not found a job, but i feel better about looking for 1."

we heard from the city of cleveland earlier. let's go out to las vegas where jeff simpson is on the phone, executive editor of "in business las vegas." so much of what we read about your city has to do with the housing market. how are things? guest: the morning. our housing market is complicated because we are losing population, or at least not gaining population as fast as we were for most of the past few decades. we have paced the nation in terms of population growth, and that really prop up our housing market, but that growth has slowed down. last year we were about flat, and it looks like 2009 is going the same way. so between that and the rapid depreciation of our homes, has really been sort of a one-two

punch along with the subprime mortgage crisis and the very high number of foreclosures we have had. and so it has been a very tough housing market here, and that has contributed greatly to our unemployment rate. which in las vegas is 12.3%. the state is 12%. many of those unemployed folks were connected in one way or another with the housing industry, many of them construction workers and a lot of them, a lot of other folks connected directly or indirectly to those businesses. host: what could be a turning point for las vegas? what are local and state folks trying to do? guest: the biggest turning point will be the broader national economy. we are still a tourist-based economy. so the natural -- so the national downtick today, just a

10th of a point, still in the encouraging signs nationally can help us if folks believe around the country that times may have hit bottom and might be rebounding. that will improve consumer confidence and make people more likely to take a weekend trip or a visit to las vegas. that obviously helps us. secondly, if the jobless rate actually does start to drop, we will have people with more money to spend when they get here, and folks in las vegas, obviously there would be more folks working here as well. so we would have an increase in employment or a rebound in the unemployment numbers. that would be a very good thing here in las vegas. host: jeff simpson is executive editor of "in business las vegas." we appreciate your input this morning.

boise, idaho, what is your reaction? caller: i think it is pretty good that it has gone down a little bit, but it sure has not seemed like it around here in idaho. i am a 25-year union member, sheet metal worker. we have 100 people out of work. electricians, local, the half 250 people out of work. pipefitters have about 250 people out of work. there are just no jobs around this area. i sure appreciate c-span for letting me have a chance to talk. you have a good day. host: have a good day. robert? hello, robert. caller: how're you this morning? host: good. what is the situation in gramha, texas? caller: what about the people who were subcontracted that kind

of -- and that would make the unemployment rate go up. you do not hear about that. host: what is your situation? caller: the situation here is i have been unemployed for eight months and finally just got back in with the company i used to work for. they did not have any jobs, but they started a new sector, so that has allowed me to go back to work. but my brother-in-law who is also working in the oilfields is now unemployed. he had to go back to mowing yards because they dropped him from unemployment, dropped his benefits. so that is making it around here where it is impossible to even get a job. host: lots of facts and figures in the paper today about the economy. government spending and other issues -- to the headline in "the washington post," " retailers are not seeing back to school boosts."

several teen stores posted double-digit drops at locations open at least a year, a key measure of a retailer's health known as same-store sales. also other headlines, "the wall street journal" talked about congress. "$500 million slated for purchase of eight more planes as lawmakers travel soars." conners plans to spend $550 million to buy eight jets, a substantial upgrade to the fleet use by federal officials at a time when lawmakers have -- "the financial times," hank greenberg, former chairman of aig, to pay $15 million to settle a case with the sec. he agreed to settle as the sec investigated his role in accounting fraud in the company from 2000 to 2005.

toledo, ohio, you are on the line. caller: hi. i would like to know, why is there no money for jobs? i know they did not burn the money, so what happens to all the money? why is it going? if we could get the money, follow the paper trail and find out where the money is, maybe we could get some jobs back. thank you. host: langley park, maryland. what is your situation? caller: i have been unemployed since last may. i work in the apparel business working for a manufacturing company. what i wanted to say is a lot of jobs that are being created are going to non-english speaking people or people who speak little english. and you being in the maryland area -- i mean, i do not know if you want to attest to this or not -- but if you look at the construction jobs around, many of them are non-english speaking

people, and you can tell -- i am not just looking at them. you can hear them, they are not speaking english. i mean and as far as where is the money going, a lot of these -- it is all politics. politics is local, and a lot of these local politicians are not participating in creating jobs. they want obama to fail. if the republicans really care about america, they would start creating jobs. regardless of obama or john mccain, sarah palin, it does not matter. people need to start creating jobs for americans. host: chicago, you are up now. caller: i want to call about something that i have not heard mentioned much in the employment numbers. i have been working in technology since the late 1990's. starting about 2001, any company started using us as long term

freelancers where we work for companies for three years any time. i have been out of work since last year, november, and we have, those of us working as contract employees and major corporations around the country were doing this. we do not have anything to fall back on. we have no unemployment, no options as far as using any of the job services available, especially in the chicago area where i am. most of those programs are people who are extreme low income or people that were working and receiving unemployment benefits. i think that is something that needs to be considered in the numbers because i would estimate from just with people within my circle, there are about 20 of us that i know, 13 of us all out of work. with nothing to fall back on, no unemployment, etc. host: harford karen, front page today, home sales. -- the hartford courant -- "the

sun peeked out a little bit from behind the clouds thursday, a new report showed that in july the region increase in home sales for the first time in two years." "layoffs likely and made safety cuts." the denver mayor is seeking from police deputies and firefighters next year only a portion of the $66 million in cuts that the mayor has asked the safety agency to compare -- to prepare for his consideration. by the way, the state newspaper out of south carolina suggests they are. there are a lower number of hurricanes projected, an issue they face every year around this time. detroit, you are on the air. caller: good morning. i am unemployed, i work for a home health agency, and i have been denied unemployment in the

state of michigan. host: did they give you a reason? caller: the reason is that they let me go. i have health insurance and they said i voluntarily quit when really i just did not have transportation. so they have continued to fight my unemployment since december 14. and i have been unable to -- i am not getting unemployment. i am just blessed that i have my home paid for. now my savings are gone. i am 58 years old. i have not been able to find a job, and i am unemployed. and no one has hired me. it is absolutely horrible. host: ok, "time" puts it this way.