gross. we will look at how congress works with david clark, a reporter with cq politics . "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning, today is wednesday, august 12. president obama will hold a meeting at the white house to talk about the nomination of sonia sotomayor. there will be a freedom ceremony also at the white house. edward kennedy, jack kemp, and a former justice sandra day o'connor will be nominees. vice president joe biden is on vacation and the congress is on august recess. on the front page here, a recovery only a statistician could love. the congressional analysis by the a.p., obama and the

democrats of a big hole in there to do list. hear, and as the till is enough? on the health-care debate, obama battles the chador. we begin on health care and town hall meetings this morning. looking at the front page on "usa today" -- s town hall meetings turned ugly, he fights back. regarding obama's town hall meeting in portsmouth, new hampshire on tuesday, it lacked the chanting and catcalls that have disrupted some meetings, but the president found himself having to deny his proposals would lead to rationing, socialized medicine, or government "death panels" to oversee and of life care. obama felt the need to deny plans to pull the plug on grandma and that the white house moved to schedule a tree otrue f town hall meetings -- the president will hold one in montana on friday and another in

colorado on saturday. it reflects a growing concern within the administration that the most vocal critics of this health-care plans are now dominating the debate. we want to hear from our viewers today on what they think about the tunnel meetings going on across the nation. if you want to call in on the republican line, you can also send us an e-mail or a comment on twitter. following up. "wall street journal" are also discussing the meeting in portsmouth, this reporter writes, the town hall meeting here was the first of three this week as the president tried to regain his footing. it features the largest protest

of the obama presidency. mr. obama has acknowledged for weeks that passing a plan to rein in health-care spending, and the other concerns about reform would be difficult. inside of portsmouth high school obama faced a from the crowd, so much so that he sought out of questioners. participants were picked from a lottery. outside the gathering verged on a street brawl. the opposing forces lined up like screaming armies on either side of the street. let's go to our first call from him yet, okla., ruth. caller: yes, it is.

-- from henrietta, okla.. caller: i have a lot to tell if you listen. in 1970 we were sitting at home and they took the people from el paso, taxes and they were making jeans and ship them across the river to mexico, brought them back in, and sell them for the same price and put our people out of work. bring our people back home, let them make their own clothes. let them make our own cannon towels. it is nice to build bridges and roads, but the women who are on welfare could be working and making their own living. another thing, i would like for

you to look into -- money. this health-care thing is crazy. i have retired from at&t and i have healthcare, insurance. but years ago the illegals would come into the hospitals, have their babies, go outside and never pay a dime. then when it was time for us to go into the hospital, if you were should your hospital bill, one aspirin will cost you $8. if they go into a catholic hospital or any other hospital. people ought to know what is going on. they do not understand. do you understand what i'm trying to say? host: one of the lawmakers had a

lot to hear from constituents yesterday was arlen specter, the pennsylvanian democrat. he faced a meeting with his constituents. many said that they heard about the meeting from e-mail alert is sent by conservative and anti- tax groups. some voiced sentiments that were heard recently on conservative radio shows, and among those interviewed, said they resented being characterized as mobs or puppets. one said that they demanded their voice -- another yelled "you work for me." further down, for all our inspectors' efforts, tempers boiled less then 50 minutes into

the meeting. -- 15 minutes into the meeting, temperatures were stumbling. the next call is from st. louis, missouri, on the independent line. caller: hello, i happen to deliver "usa today" and i think it is almost an editorial decision and irony to put right next to the healthcare debate in the center of the front page, the lone wolf initiative by the fbi. by the way, that is looking for the so-called domestic terrorists. here in missouri we had the

report which was soaked up with homeland's security here in the state and was turned over -- which was hooked up to the state, and security, and was turned over to the new storenew. it is not only a debate about health care, but right wing extremism, furthering radicalization -- then this 10- page document i have in front of me -- let me just preface this to say that what it is talking about is how in the 1990's when we had the oklahoma city bombing and waco, ruby ridge and the militia groups spreading out, many of them were pointed to be

radical and terrorist cells which is far from the truth. in this report with the mentioned which goes along with this front-page article -- the host: let me interrupt to inform viewers. this is the headline to which he refers. the lead is that federal authorities have launched an effort to detect loan attackers may be contemplating a politically charged assaults. the lone wolf initiative was started shortly after president obama is in operation. go ahead. caller: yes, all the which you said right there adds more fuel to the fire. we have no free speech here anymore. as you could see on the our inspector meeting they tried to

physically escorted the man out because he was speaking forcefully, but he had the right to have that addressed by mr. arlen specter. the hate speech, you have that going on, getting snuck into bills. the gun sales, we have a right to bear arms. that is in the constitution. it should be a freely accessible right to own arms. but this town hall meeting and these deportees -- was happening is, these people are concerned about the homeland security assessment. one officer came out of the arizona officer a few years back who was eventually pulled. we had a number of citizens here in missouri who literally confronted the lieutenant governor rather angrily but civilly to let him know that we do not like being addressed as terrorists, or potential ones, which is exactly what this homeland security says.

host: let's hear from another person in missouri, from lee's summit. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i have been a republican for most of my life. one of the things i felt the republican party did was to be very accepting of all people, really fought for our rights, and i was really disappointed during the eight years of george bush whom i support it wholeheartedly. i feel now that all of our lawmakers on both sides are not really standing up for the people that they are supposed to represent. with healthcare i do feel that something needs to be done. i am 70 years old. when i retired from work there was no -- my last day of work

was my last day of insurance. i retired at 65. back here, by the time that they take our medicare out of our social security check, then we have to buy supplement or pay a huge amount -- i hate to think my children will have to pay for. but i think that we need something to curb the cost of all of these large insurance companies. i know that there are individual companies, but the with the band together and fix prices, or however the come up with a pricing system, and then you have to pay out all these millions of dollars to executives, somewhere along the line something is wrong. in canada the pharmaceutical drugs are much cheaper even though maybe they come from the united states.

we have to do something to curb where things are going. that is where i am afraid for my children. will they be able to afford health care for themselves? or for their children? i am glad to see that someone is tackling the health care problem, but it is almost like we have a healthcare monopoly in this country by these huge companies who have banded together. as far as the town hall meetings i think they're wonderful. i think that people need to get their points across, but when it comes to being disrespectful -- i am not took about being disrespectful to politicians, but to each other -- that not everyone can be heard and talked to civilly, to me it sounds like -- what i have seen of these meetings is almost like chris matthews. or some of the people on fox

news. but if it is not their point of view overshadow or cut off their guests. host: here are a couple of local stories concerning the seniors in the healthcare debate. most singers like the government health care plan, but just do not caught that. -- seniors like their government health care plan, but do not call that. it says here that many older citizens are clearly confused about what an insurance overhaul might mean to them. their judgment may well decide the fate of obama's health care initiative. following on the front page of "the miami herald" -- seeking healthy debate. the right that fear and uncertainty haunted the elderly

as critics speaker. the strongest call obama's health care id is downright evil. they referred to "death panels." let's go to our next call from lafayette, louisiana, on the line for democrats. caller: thanks for having me. so far i realize that president obama is not doing anything different than what he said on the campaign trail, so i'm not sure exactly why all these town hall meetings are getting out of sync. this is a spectacle. i just watched that arlen specter town hall meeting just before you came on, and of everyone who spoke, there was one lady who had health care for

30 years and she agreed that change needs to be made. preventative health care, now refusing people for pre-existing conditions. people are not realizing that just those two changes in health care will make a whole difference. our health-care system is broken. i had a cousin who had twins just one month ago. she went to three different hospitals within 200 miles until finally the doctor got the right diagnosis and treated her after three different cat scans. she was transported through an ambulance twice and a helicopter once. tell me that is not broken health care. host: we have kevin brady, a texas republican, who hosted one of his own meetings on monday. he can tell us a little more from all lawmakers perspective. are you there, congressman? caller: yes, good morning.

host: you hosted a meeting on monday? caller: yes, i was at about 12 town hall meetings, and about 37 scheduled for the recess. host: what are you hearing? caller: most people have lots of questions about the bill and are worried about medicare cuts. they are worried where a government-run plan could leave because quality health care for elderly is not so great and countries who have predominantly government-run plans. small businesses are certain there will be taxed more. and that there will ultimately end up pushing their employes into government-run plants because they cannot afford it. people have a lot of questions about how it would run. look at the web of bureaucracy. they worry about the government getting in between, interfering

with their most personal. personal -- with their most personal decisions. those are fair questions. they're reading portions of the bill and death and have precautions. they still do not understand why it is being rushed through congress. lawmakers need to get this right. -- they're reading portions of the bill and still have concerns. host: there seems to be in grand aggression at the town hall meetings. caller: yes, people are passionate because this is their lives. we saw this a few years ago during social security reform when president bush tried to deal with that major problem. we saw the same types of passion and frustration because you are dealing with things that really do affect people's lives, but our district has 11 counties, nine predominantly democratic.

across the spectrum, though, whatever party they or in, they have the same questions and concerns. at the end of the day everyone, wants healthcare improved but they're just not convinced the plan that they are seeing is the way. host: what about the tone in your specific meetings? pleasant or aggressive? caller: passionate -- guest: it has been passionate. people get passionate even when they agree with me on the concerns. but that is what you would expect with healthcare. this is not a concept to people, this is life or death. new expected. in ours -- very civil, but very passionate. host: you are in your seventh term and have served in congress for 14 years. how does this compare to other

town hall meetings over your career? caller: they are very close to the social security, but much different from your traditional town halls. in truth it can be hard to get people to come out on a saturday afternoon or wednesday evening. they have busy lives. in most times attendance is pretty sparse. these are packed. they come loaded with information and questions. more people have read this bill or portions of it than have ever. that is a huge change from the past. but i think it is good and i think this whole debate is healthy. host: how many more debates are you plan on having for it this month? guest: in healthcare i guess we have another 24 or 25. we're getting a lot of invitations to do more which we will try to do if our schedule permits, but it is all healthcare all the time. host: we will leave it there.

thank you for joining us, congressman. the front page of "the richmond dispatch" -- as does not all have had the same tone. this town hall meeting was civil. more than 1300 residents packed the charlottesville high school last night. let's go to fort wayne on the republican line. caller: good morning, thank you for to come home. it is not surprising what is going on at these meetings. if you listen to president obama and realize who he associated with for years and years with ayer s and the

preacher saying to damn america, it is not surprising to hear people coming not saying things about nazis. they are afraid that the american people say "no" -- we will not take this. there is a ground swell of average joe's the good to work every day. they are finally getting a backbone and saying, this is absolutely not acceptable. what do the democrats do? they get their left-wing union members to escort regular citizens out, threaten them. yesterday there was an incident where the congressman said if the show anymore i will have you locked up. they hate america, don't you understand this? mrs. nancy pelosi said it is un-american to speak of. she said the illegal aliens and the church are true americans.

let the democrats keep on. there will be a revolution in this country. if they think that yelling at a town meeting is the worst that will happen, they have not seen anything yet. host: ok, in "the washington post" another meeting hosted by senator benjamin cardin -- going to the mat on the healthcare bill. the maryland democrat booked a 500-seat concert hall at the university weeks ago before the meetings got so notoriously wild. people lined up and started yelling at each other three hours before the event began. the alternative was to join rallies held on opposite sides of the street. they continue -- almost every question was hostile to reform proposals in congress. reporters seemed significantly above number. one had a standing ovation when

she asked for an example of something that was previously private that the government took over which is now successful. the senator replied the public park system. hostfrom dallas, texas, we had roger. caller: the previous caller was right and i cannot add much. but obama is not being truthful when he stood up yesterday and said the opposition to his health care bill is coming from the special interests. it is clearly coming from average american people. it only shows how out of touch obama and the democrats in washington are that they do not understand that average people are against what they are trying to do. host: ok, next call from fort wayne on the republican line. caller: takeover much for this

opportunity. i am already engaged or am part of a process of the type of government health care. i was working as a contractor and iraq, supporting our military, and was injured. for the last nearly four years i have been under something through the department of labour which covers. my health covers it covers it throughout the federal work comp program and is governed by a.i.g. -- it is no longer an edgy. the name has been changed to a.i.u. because of their publicity. but i cannot work because of my intejury. this health care only covers my injuries that were sustained and iraq, so i get sick have no other means for assistance to

pay for my health care. if anything else happens to have no other means to depend upon. i have had to rely on friends and family. and on churches and organizations for support. it is very disturbing. i am not the only person in this position. unfortunately, this process is very long and takes quite a toll on people. it has taken quite a toll on my life and the people around me. there are many improvements that need to be made, however, getting one's voice out to the people who make those changes is another gigantic hurdles to overcome. yesterday on a very popular right-wing talk show, i heard a lady call in and talk about the problems her son was having. he was a soldier and has the v.a. to depend on.

i am a civilian and was never part of the military. the v.a. has its own problems. this is a great challenge for america. it is incredibly important. you can see the people's passion as they speak about the issues. the main thing is -- who is listening? host: we have anthony on the line for democrats. caller: yes, i am puzzled as to why everyone is upset at these town hall meetings? most people know that their health care over the years has risen substantially each year. most people also know like the fellow who just got off, if you do have health care and go to a hospital, you are denied care. there are many procedures that you paid for and thought you'd get that you do not get. i am hoping this does fail and let those people who are protesting keep their health care and let rise to a level

where they cannot afford it anymore, and then they're walking around wondering what is next. host: here is an analysis piece in a "the washington post" entitled "what they're really arguing about." it is clear that the health-care debate has become a proxy for a bigger fight over whether the federal government is assuming too much control of our over the country. under two administrations washington has assumed a central role in major sectors of the economy to prevent a potentially calamitous collapse. under bush, the bailouts for fannie and freddie, next four a.i.g. -- later more money for banks. then came obama's stimulus package. that the decision made in washington the engine of economic recovery. then came the auto industry bill which give the federal government a sizable share of the new gm.

whatever the rationale, obama is asking the public to accept the significant expansion of the government into the private sector. one of the biggest factors as whether he can persuade people to accept the amount of government he has proposed, along with his argument that what he has done has been a product of necessity, not ideology. next, a caller on the republican line. caller: good morning. let me first comment on what you have read. to think that this president thinks it is ok to expand government, that is an absolute contrary concept to the constitution. he says it is not the ideology? it is 100%.

i cannot understand america voted for president who harold's trotsky as his mentor. he is a marxist. i'm not just here to bash the president. we know the percentage of people who agree and disagree. we do not need a pole. we can talk to neighbors. 80% of everyone at a meeting is against what he is doing. they do not want the soviet union here. these people are a bunch of sadists. their mindset is top-down power. host: if anyone has attended a town hall meeting in their area and would like to share their experience you can do so on video at our website, c- span.org. will be back with christopher whatley. ♪

♪ >> every morning this month we talk live with top non-fiction authors about their new summer releases. our guests include the following -- we will be taking your calls, and e-mails, and tweets,

starting this friday morning. >> bill clinton kicks off the 2009 blocker's convention and coverage begins on thursday night, live at 8:00 p.m. eastern -- that is the bloggers convention. next, making change happen and reshaping the supreme court. the radio talk-show executive, bryant jennings, on the new fairness doctrine and why it is a bad idea and alternatives to censorship. he will be interviewed by the commentator monica crawley. >> sunday, the contributing editor and columnist for newsweek magazine on his public radio series. it profiles people who have overcome significant obstacles and luck. that is sunday night at 8:00 p.m. "washington journal" continues.

host: joining us now is christopher whatley from the council of state behrman's. can you explain what your agency is and what you do there? guest: it is the oldest and largest of state elected officials. we have been around for 75 years. we help states learn from each other through national and regional offices so that states can implement best practices, but we also spent time tracking what is going on on capitol hill and communicating major changes. host: how much of the state budget's been dependent on stimulus money recently? guest: the recovery act has been a godsend for state budgets. most estimates say that the state budget crisis which still is a crisis and has not gone away would be at least 40% worse if you were not for the recovery act dollars which are now flowing through the veins of state budgets. host: how much of the overall

package has been sent to the states? guest: the amount states are ultimately eligible for a purchase about $300 billion -- there is $500 billion in appropriation and this piece of legislation. states are ultimately eligible to receive or will receive the majority of that. in terms of what is out there now and being spent, it is closer to around $70 billion right now. you'll see a huge uptick in the amount spent by state. the biggest chunks have just arrived in the last four weeks. much of that is for education. host: we're talking about the economic stimulus and how it has impacted states. if you have a question, please call.

at what point -- when will the stimulus phones be fully realized to the states? guest: the peak year in terms of spending is the fiscal year we are in now. states run july 1 until june 30. it is this fiscal year -- 2010, were you will see the majority of funding appear on the books. you will see the majority of contract actions on energy efficiency programs, transportation and how we progress. we are really moving into the peak. were you will see the largest impact of the stimulus dollars -- and to the peak period of the largest impact. host: it was always intended to be temporary estimates as, what happens after that? guest: that is a big question. there is a fiscal cliff that the states could fall off. the key flexible money that is balancing budgets runs out by

the end of the calendar year 2010. as a result, we cannot expect state revenues to have restored at that time. they will still be hurting. states will have to make some very tough calls. they will have to make program cuts, look at revenue measures. certainly, the recovery act dollars are helping and at a moment where our economy is at its weakest. looking forward, we help the economy begins to recover, but it will be a tough time, particularly in the 2011-2012 time. host: can you offer any examples of how it has helped? guest: when you look across the board at each of the 50 states, all but the oil-rich states like north dakota, louisiana, texas who have some specific state revenues coming off their natural resources, all of them were in dire difficulties. in each and every of those cases, the stimulus dollars

prevented them from having to introduce tax increases or make very deep program cuts. it is important to remember what state es do -- medicaid, incarcerate, and such. they laid off teachers, reduce benefits to the poorest who receive help through medicaid, and they released prisoners and lay off prison guards. host: did and that just happen in california? guest: yes, and the cuts would have been far worse if they had not had that amount of federal stem this. but that gives you an example of how bad it could have been. proportionally, even with a flexible money from the recovery act, there have been these extreme cuts. were not for the $27 billion that california was eligible for cannot those cuts would have been dire.

host: let's take some calls. caller: good morning, i'm just waking up and listening. i just want to know -- what did they do? why did they wait until the last minute to decide that they need help? eight years ago, where were you? i mean, what is going on? guest: you raise a very good question. it gets to the heart of the fact that states have been, have faced these volatile crises for a long time. in goodyear's states like california do great. they get revenues from income taxes, largely which is investment in come, but when thethey hit those bums, it is ag crash. one of the silver linings that may come from this current

economic crisis is that even when the stimulus money states are having to make hard choices and having to look at their budgets in general. as many have said, a fiscal crisis is a terrible thing to waste. it does prompt, force you to look hard at your revenue structures. make you look at your programs to make sure you are only funding those that are affected. it could lead to stiff bidding practices that will allow them to be more stable and future downturns. host: we have a comment from twitter. guest: i think the stimulus money is already beginning to create jobs, but modestly. one of the elements is the tax- side.

those earning less than $75,000 per year are eligible for a $400 could. unlike in the bush administration were was backdated and everyone got a check and felt rich in that moment, but unfortunately, felt for quickly because the gas prices went up so fast that the dollars in your pocket quickly ended up in your gas tank -- in the case of the stimulus you're getting this $400 benefit, but it shows up in your paychecks as an extra $18 every two weeks. it does not make you feel rich. therefore, there has not been that kind of political moment where people are appreciative of the check they have just received, but i think you see americans across the country having just a little more money at the end of the month. it shows up and some of the positive economic indicators, or less bad economic indicators we have seen of the past couple of weeks. the tax benefits are having a

modest impact. i think the for structures spending that has been done is bringing people on line and getting them to work. but something disappointing there, when we discussed this stimulus back in december or january, if you go back to those months, you really thought the recovery act was all about infrastructure. you would have thought that there was it hundred dollars billion worth of asphalt in the stillness. but in the end it was only 5%. $40 billion of transportation, water infrastructure, other infrastructure elements. the total $787 billion historic piece of legislation -- although those monies are putting people to work, since there were a modest part of that total, it is having a modest impact. the bigger impacts we have seen on the state level are more in that job saved category were the teachers are still in the classroom and your kids are still able to go to a kindergarten for there are maybe

25 kids to the class rather than 35 or 40. those are important benefits. but certainly, i sympathize with the collar and with people across america who would have liked to have seen more direct job growth more quickly. host: on the republican line from tupelo, mississippi. caller: good morning. let me comment on what you just said. the stimulus money is not putting anyone back to work. at least not in our area. also, not in many other parts of the country. the stimulus money is being sent overseas. now, the question came up -- i cannot remember the guy's name, but there was $700 billion that went overseas.

he could not tell anybody specifically for that money went. were you watching out for that money and where it went? guest: the callers making a good point. there are concerns that some stimulus dollars could end up overseas. it is not directly. it is not that the $787 billion of the recovery act is being spent directly overseas. these are moneys designed to circulate through local economies, create activity, and put people back to work. they are having a modest impact so far and will have a greater impact in the future. but the caller is onto something. that extra amount that you have at the end of the day as a result of the tax benefits in particular which pretty much everyone in america is receiving -- that extra $40 you might have as a family at the end of the

month -- often you're going down to buy clothing or other products at retail stores. many of those come from overseas. some of those moneys rattling around in the pockets of americans, modest amounts, are indeed being used to purchase products from overseas. they will ultimately benefit those overseas, but i think the core purpose of the recovery act is very much about trading activity at the local level. the caller is understandably concerned that she has not seen enough of that activity in tupelo, mississippi. hopefully, as the projects ramping up and as the country begins to bounce at the bottom and slowly climb back up, that we will see some of that direct evidence and the form of school modernization and renovation in your area and putting contractors back to work. the kind of repaving

projects that mississippi has invested in. host: from worcester, mass., jjiim. caller: yes, the woman who just spoke is actually referring to the federal reserve chairman, ben bernanke. could i speak for a moment and then you could comment? as far as the state deficits go, i think it is basically a symptom of our overall government. until we get control of inflation, i do not think we will get -- never mind the speech, we will not get the country's finances under control. i wish more people would have called their congressman and ask them to support hr 1207 which is

a bill to audit the federal reserve. i was wondering what you thought of that bill, excuse me -- how that would affect the discussion of today's discussion? guest: i am not prepared to comment directly on a hr 1207, but what i can say is that when i'm out in state capitals around the country that inflation is a topic brought up. there is a lot of concern at the state level about the debt load the federal government is carrying, even the states who have dependent on recovery act dollars to help balance budgets. within those states there is a lot of debate. many of those state leaders who are ultimately spending stimulus dollars may not have voted for it.

the same kind of partisan debates that played out in washington as the recovery act was passed are apparent at the state levels. there is a wide variety of opinion on whether we should incur the amount of debt of the federal level that we have for things like the recovery act and other major pieces of legislation under consideration. inflation is a concern at the state level. how that translates into a dialogue between the states and the federal government about monetary policies -- that has not been on the radar screen of the state leaders i'm working with. they are so consumed with the challenge of the moment of deploying these stimulus dollars. but your concerns are shared by many around the country. host: we have another question from twitter. guest: good question.

for the most part they have created a few offices and positions. there has been talk in papers and on the news about stimulus czars with most rates having a person in charge of overseeing the spinning, but it tends to be a modest structure. one give the show and maybe five or 10 people beneath them for a medium-sized state. they're mainly acting like a traffic cop. the stimulus to the states translates into about 44 major program accounts, money flowing into your education department, into your highway department, into your state energy office. in all of these separate accounts, that stimulus czar is trying to make sure that in every account for they are receiving this. according to the law. there are the most stringent

become a build requirements of any peace ever enacted by it is a huge challenge. those administrative structures are really focused on it. for them, the date to watch is october 10. that is the first deadline for them to do comprehensive reporting on exactly what they have spent, how many jobs it has treated, but the rationale was for white they spend their money where -- and after that, after a week, that will all be up on recovery.gov. it will be in a project before the public to examine those and critique them. states are sprinting to ensure they get all that data, that their contracts on how we projects and other things are fully compliant with all the stipulations in the recovery

act. they are doing it with fairly modest administrative structures, but it has required the addition of a few more staff at the state level. host: if the states did not spend the money allocated to them does it go back to the federal kitty? guest: for the most part, on nearly all recovery act accounts to have a court deadline of the end of september 2010, unless otherwise stipulated in the actual legislation. in some accounts there were deadlines to get in your applications, certifications showing how he would spend the money. if you did not meet the deadline, those moneys would be reallocated to other states. one of the biggest was on transportation funding, a huge priority. often the highway spending decisions you make are the most charged, controversial, and emotionally-driven decisions on the state level. people care a lot about which roads are built and improve.

all of the states met the deadlines and got their allocations in four before the deadline. many states were sitting on the sidelines, wishing that the number of states would hope not to go for those funds or that they missed the deadline and they would get a little more, but states are consistently hitting those targets. it is because they are in this difficult fiscal crisis and need every dollar they can get. host: have in the state had problems spending so much money so fast? guest: it is too early to tell. there will be particular programs that might be difficult for states to spend down effectively. the weatherization program -- it provides audits and measures to many different agencies in the states. it has been around for a long time, but was modestly funded until the recovery act. the act hits and you have a 70-

fold increase in funding. that is the single largest program uptick in the entire complicated stimulus package. so, if you have a weatherization office that had three people in it 18 months ago, and now they are trying to spend 70-fold the amount, that is a big challenge. the recovery board at the white house will watch that account very carefully to make sure they spend that money effectively and to see what needs to be done in case those monies are not allocated. host: let's go to our next call from new york. caller: yes, are you more likely to receive stimulus for state benefits if you are in a smaller or bigger city? guest: if you're talking about some of the benefits that individuals receive, whether the tax benefits, extra $25 per week that people on unemployment

insurance receive -- those elements of the recovery act, it does not matter whether you are in the big cities, small town, or in an un incorporated area. but there has been a lot of concern concerning a tripleton areas where much economic activity is located -- that they have received the short end of the stabbing of the main reason is that the recovery act uses the existing federal form letters to allocate how we money, to allocate education dollars. many of those allocations have structures in place to benefit large states with small populations at the same time that the benefit major metropolitan areas. as a result, and total, you might find a state like north dakota with a large land area and few people received more

money per capita than some of the northeast states were you have a very large populations in a small area. there is concerned about equity as a result of those formulas. host: we will go to east point, mich., on the line for democrats. caller: good morning, so far i think the stimulus money for states has been effective in putting police back to work in keeping teachers in their jobs. you are right about the road work here in michigan -- after a winter the roads are demolished. so, we will have to sea in october were the money is being spent. that is all have to say about getting a the people back to work. i totally stand behind it. for places like wal-mart, you go there are things are made cheaply and you have to return to buy things again.

i have never walked into walmart. crime rate is up by 12% and all the small shops go out. i guess corporate america is still making money, but people are still struggling. that is why think health care does need an overhaul -- we're not going to kill the elderly, give me a break. america, host: wake up the next call from georgia on the independent line. caller: yes, and the question for mr. christopher whatley. have the states than any research on how much money state-by-state we have lost by letting these jobs go overseas? i know when i go buy a place, they are always made in china, indonesia -- i am curious -- is there any research on how much

we have lost but letting these jobs go overseas? guest: that is a good question. i do not believe the states have done a specific research in terms of economic impact on the shift of those jobs overseas. what i can say is that states are investing considerable resources to attract overseas investment here. to win at the global competitiveness game. they are making those decisions in terms of opening offices overseas designed to bring foreign companies here to set up factories like the hyundai factories that have come to the southeast, as a result of those concerns that they often see their own jobs in terms of an open, global economy shifting and they realize they need to find the next round of jobs.

one of the good news stories of the last couple of weeks has been that american exporters are doing better than they have a long time. at least in key sectors. states spend a lot of time looking at the economic climate of their states and certainly they are deeply concerned when you see a textile factory moved overseas and suddenly in a town in north carolina it is like a bomb going off on main street. jobs people depended upon for generations are gone. the attention has focused primarily on making investments in their economies to make sure it they are competitive in the global arena, rather than trying to collect data. that has been collected on the federal level and by research organizations, to some degree. host: from michigan again, on the republican plan.

caller: i was wondering, are there specific banks the government is using to hold the stimulus phones per state? it would be a good idea to create state banks. so that the money stays in the economy and people are invested. so you would get an overall growth. everyone working together, rather than giving to those who got billions of dollars in bailout for wrong investment to begin with. guest: that is a creative idea. one reason you do not see an innovative idea like that play now is that for the most part, the way the stimulus works is that it is money flowing through existing state-federal partnerships. it is not necessarily a big, huge check the state gets and is

able to deposit anywhere. in the case of the largest chunk benefiting states, it is just the federal government committing to take up a larger percentage of the costs of medicaid. in that case, the federal government is really not writing a check. it says it will pick up an extra 6% of the cost of this program over the life of the recovery act, for the next couple of years. the federal government is paying those bills themselves. it is not a check that has gone to states. in most program accounts that is how it runs. you have existing funding relationships where either there are federal funds flowing into the state's general fund, or is agreeing to pay for things. host: we will have to leave it there. thank you for coming in. next, we'll continue our discussion with the economy and

stimulus with the youngstown mayor. we will then speak with michael gross concerning homosexual advocates. here is an update from c-span radio. . . the u.s. wants the names of about 52,000 american clients believed to be hiding at least $15 billion in secret accounts. the pentagon and department of homeland security drafted a $225 million program to temporarily deployed 1500 guard troops to

help u.s. border patrol agents but senior administration officials who spoke on condition of anonymity said the proposed plan is still waiting for a decision over who will pay for the soldiers and how they will be used. u.s. marines are battling the caliban in southern afghanistan. american, nato, and afghan troops are fighting to protect voting sites the head of the elections. authorities say at least seven militants have been killed. the federal reserve board's two- day meeting wraps up today. it is expected they will leave interest rates near 0. many economists are saying the recession is ending and the economy is starting to grow again or wilson. those are the latest headlines on c-span reappeared bamako wash -- on c-span radio. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we have youngstown, ohio meier j. williams. are you there? guest: i am. host: what is the economy like

in youngstown, ohio. guest: it is a mixed bag. certainly we are feeling the affects of the downturn in the economy, but we are battling a budget deficit. i have to tell you that youngstown, ohio, and like many other cities, is holding its own. we have a number of economic development initiatives underway as we speak, but we are anticipating the announcement of several hundred jobs being created, so it is a mixed bag but we survive hard times before. host: even prior to the crisis, youngstown created economic issues particularly but that loss of the steel industry. how did get to this point? guest: it did face a tremendous collapsed 25 1/3 years ago. we have had to reinvent ourselves. we had to diversify the economy.

we still maintain manufacturing as an important part of the economy but i am pleased youngstown was just named one of the top 10 cities of the country to start a business and that is because we had a diversified approach to the economic plan, collaborated on the state, local, and federal level and the business community has managed to survive -- survive, albeit with some difficult appeared we have find what -- found where other cities have fallen by the wayside, still surviving an engaging in economic initiatives. host: what are your thoughts and the economic stimulus package and how that has affected your area? guest: i am pleased we received about $27 million in stimulus money. $20 million is to assist in half billion dollar expansion of locally-based company. we received a couple of million dollars to help us maintain the police force and tried to minimize layoffs.

we have been fairly robust in terms of our economic stimulus. we believe it will result in job creation and we are still looking to attract more funds. host: we are talking with youngstown, ohio mizer jay williams -- ohio mayor jay williams. if you are in the youngstown, ohio area, we have another line to specifically call land, to a two-628-0184. what is the home foreclosure rate in youngstown? guest: it is about 14.7%. while it has certainly been exacerbated by this most recent decline in the housing market, our difficulties them back, as you alluded to, to the collapse of the steel industry.

we have been on a long road to recovery. we have had setbacks but now we are facing about a 14.7% foreclosure rate. guest: what is the industry in youngstown? guest: there is still a manufacturing industry and still steel manufacturing doing global manufacturing. we have emergency -- emerging technology industry. fastest-growing privately held business to business technology software company in the country. we still have an automobile crisis. one of general motors fineness plants is just 50 minutes outside of youngstown. it will be building the next generation small car. health care, the government, education. we have a much more diversified economy than we have seen probably in the past decade. host: what about population changes? guest: we have lost some

population. the population is about 80,000, which is half of than the peak in the 1940's and 1950's when all of the many factors concerns were going. what we decided to do was take a very pragmatic and innovative approach. in fact, a youngstown is often cited as one of the leading cities when it talks about smart growth or right sizing the city. we understand we will not have a population of 150 or 160,000, but it does not mean we cannot be an attractive city of 80,000 or 85,000 with a desirable quality of life. host: let us hear from our viewers. on the republican line from louisiana, was late. caller: am i on the air? mayor of youngstown. i know a lot of people in this city got a tax cut, what they don't know it is not a tax cut, it is attacked the leg. i got my tax cut, $67 more in my

check and i am retired military. i called my county finance center, and asked why. it said they were instructed to do that by the administration. i asked can i get a new tax table. they said we did not get anything like that. what you are saying is i am still going to be taxed at the same rate, which means i will pay including the amount that was cut. this said he probably will. that is not a tax cut, that is a tax delay. instead of paying it now, we will pay it by april 15. host: mr. mayor? guest: i can tell you there are dozens of businesses and ceo's in youngstown, and the workers will tell you that there have been benefits to the federal tax policy and the state tax policy. obviously there is a lot of debate, but as far as a city like youngstown, ohio -- you are

refering to a federal level that impacts youngstown. but some of the changes in the state tax policy have benefited businesses in youngstown and we've worked diligently to help them take advantage of that. host: from virginia, democratic line. william. caller: i would have to say to my ear williams of ohio that the state of virginia is in what you got a mixed bag also. president obama's stimulus package is working, as far as i'm concerned, because it has given infrastructure and also give the money to the college to retrain people who want to go into another profession that is laid off or something. also we have a highway going through here called the highway express. paid for it, too, also by the stimulus package.

but i would like to let the american people know that it takes time to get things done and president obama did take a -- for what he inherited. i have to say as far as the united states economy, it fell through, 911 calls the first recession, -- 9/11 called the first recession, and in the second recession happens three months before bush left office. so i think president obama of the in the best he can do. guest: to your point, president obama said last week the battle for the future of the economy will be fought in cities like youngstown, ohio. he mentioned ford wayne, indiana, south bend, indiana, places and virginia. the stimulus package does take time. we don't anticipate that in just a matter of a handful of months we will find ourselves with it economically robust environment.

but i could tell you as i sit in youngstown, ohio, a city that has been economically devastated, it will serve as a model on how to put forth the stimulus money, how to use it to facilitate job creation and i think in the next year or two you look at cities like youngstown as a model. host: from youngstown, ohio. norm on the independent line. the have a question? caller: yes, i the question for mayor william spirit i am calling from youngstown, ohio. -- yes, i have a question for mayor williams. i am calling from youngstown, ohio. he made some very good changes to the city. of the fire department areas, the police department, a lot of positive production.

if he had the means, the money, to maybe create some more inner- city jobs -- and i know the mayor is working on this -- there are a lot of skilled people that can do these jobs. ic -- i see them, these are hard-working guys. but the way that the housing has hit, all of my construction guys are laid off. my question to mayor williams, if he can answer this, are there going to be any jobs coming up in a downtown area -- immediate work force? guest: a great question.

i am pleased to talk about this afternoon we will announce a major economic development initiative in downtown youngstown that is expected to result of the creation of 500 jobs over the next 12 months to 18 months. in addition to that, i offered a stimulus guarantee to this administration. we are so confident in our economic development programs that offered to guarantee that an investment in our economic development programs, specifically the youngstown initiative, we would triple the investment with private investment. i used the figure of $5 million. that we would make sure $15 million of matching private funds and we would create or retain 2000 jobs over the next 24 months. this is based on our track record. our challenge now are not the programs themselves. we have the programs but finding stimulus funding to activate the programs. we have businesses calling us on a weekly basis looking to tap into the programs. there will be a big announcements in youngstown today about 500 jobs will but the next six months to 12 months

there will be major announcements. host: another column of democratic line. robert from missouri. caller: yes. well, i don't even know how to start. host: do you have a question for the mayor? caller: i have been observing all of this over the last 20 years -- nafta. this was a program put together by, i would say corporate america, which was bought and sold to you liberal democrats. i just can't believe what is going on. you guys are throwing money at a problem, and it is not going to solve it. guest: elwell, it depends on,

again, your perspective. as it relates to youngstown and investments, we don't see it at -- as throwing money at a problem, but investing in the city. our approach has been validated by the fact that an independent third party, a private sector magazine, a "entrepreneur" rated youngstown, ohio, as one of the top 10 cities in the country, and the insider united states to start the business. named with places like san diego, atlanta, ga., places you would not typically see youngstown and the same category. but i believe that the money has -- that has been invested in youngstown has been well invested. there have been significant return, as evidenced by this month's article and "under bernard" magazine. while not every government program solves problems, as it relates to stimulus money, investment in cities like youngstown will be well returned in terms of future job creation and a boost to the economy. host: will have a question coming in on twitter -- can you

comment on the importance of green jobs? guest: they will be extremely important. congressman tim ryan of the 17th district, a dynamic congressman who worked closely with myself and other local officials to help create green jobs. we have been known as the rest out for the past 20 years. we are now looking to be the greenbelt, working on initiatives that involve youngstown, pittsburgh to the east and cleveland to the west to create a green technology and bio medical bills that will be cutting edge job creation. i can tell you in our business and industrial parks, while over the past decade we have had traditional manufacturers and traditional the shivers. the egyptian distributors, we have emerging individuals and companies creating green jobs, whether solar panels, windmills and turbines. congressman tim ryan has really been out in front of this initiative. i think over the next year you

will see the companies like that being spun out of youngstown. host: i want to remind viewers in youngstown, where a separate line, 202-628-0184. maryland on the republican line. kenneth. caller: mr. mayer. -- mr. mayor. i heard your earlier comments about $27 million for police hiring or -- and other projects. the have municipal-bond -- i live in maryland, selling munis for water projects. the other thing for infrastructure, do you ever applied for federal grants? guest: perhaps misunderstood. when i talked about $27 million for stimulus, only 4 million was water and waste water projects. we do use bonds. we also work with the ohio water development authority.

we have had and -- sycophant investment in water and waste water. there is much more work that needs to be done. out of the $27 million, 20 million i indicated was to go to help us secure a half a billion -- at a minimum, half a billion dollar expansion in one of the locally based companies that actually has a global presence. we do use bonds. we use the ohio water development authority, a combination of grants and loans, to invest in water and waste water infrastructure. calls so the police hiring was $2 million. host: illinois. richard on the independent line. caller: calling to find out whether the mayor is aware of the -- i am sure he is aware of aig bailout money given to aig. a lot of that money was used to compensate bankers forbade loans that they purchased insurance

against. my curiosity, kind of a twofold question. a lot of people may not be aware that not only did the bankers receive payouts through the insurance policies on aig, they also received stimulus money to help bolster their books. for all intents and purposes, double indemnity on an asset. at the same time they were able to keep that asset and resell it, which means they will receive triple indemnity. i am curious whether there has been a push not only on the local level but if you heard of any kind of push to investigate some of the bankers who participated in defrauding american people, purchasing insurance policies and ending double indemnified to the taxpayer in insurance companies and then triple indemnified by

being able to resell the assets letter on. fraud occurring twice and then a third time again if they are able to retain the assets. reclamation of holding companies that may be taking on assets. i am curious and the local. finos what direction that is going. -- in his local area if the knows what direction is going. guest: i know of the federal level there is congressional inquiry as to how some of the bank's deploy a stimulus money, whether it was used to pay bonuses or how was applied to certain assets. i can tell you on the local level, we are working with local financial institutions. our big challenge is out of town lenders purchasing bulk properties, trying to flip the properties and then ultimately finding the value just is not there. we are also concerned about some of the activities banks are taking, not necessarily local but regional as it relates to foreclosures and not necessarily

completing the foreclosures. i can't tell you specifically as it relates to aig, but i'm aware of congressional inquiry going on at the national level. host: youngstown -- laura on independent line. guest: i am well, thank you. caller: i know in the past you and tim ryan supported gov. strickland and recently has budget was passed, 15% cut to private and parochial schools. this was a devastating cut for of those of us who send children to parochial schools. then i have a quick comment regarding youngstown. i will say that no matter what president obama and up getting in the health bill, nothing is

going to help youngstown citizens more than a focus on eating better and exercise. the population in youngstown is just not getting on the movements to be healthier. your health costs will never go down unless you have a healthier population. guest: i agree. that is not just a youngstown issue but a national issue. we try to work with the health care providers, even working with youngstown state university to provoke -- promote healthy lifestyles. but we find it is a national epidemic in terms of obesity and a sedentary lifestyle. in terms of education, i am a firm believer of parents being able to provide a decent quality education for their children. the majority of kids in this country will be educated in the public school system. however, when the public school system is not able to provide an adequate education i do believe

there needs to be school choice. i have gone to public schools and parochial schools. as it relates to school funding, as you are aware, it has been declared unconstitutional refunded four times by the ohio supreme court. gov. strickland did make a commitment that he would fix school funding. it is not going to happen overnight. in the meantime, the charter schools, i think they need to be held accountable, i think there needs to be standards across the board. but parents do have that measure by which to have their children educated adequately -- but they have to be held to a certain standard. fort wayne host:, indiana. david. caller: we have a democratic mayor here, and we are highly dependent on a lot of that stimulus money coming in, but something that's concerns me

back -- concerns me that i am sure the chinese are quite a news that we decided to borrow a trillion dollars from them. and the first round of treasury bills one doubt were bought by the fed. what happens when we stop chasing our tail and is money does not come in, when china refuses to loan us this money? host: i think we temporarily lost the mayor. we will go to our next call. new jersey on the democratic line. frank, are you there? caller: good morning, mr. mayor. host: we temporarily lost him, but what do you want to talk about? caller: based on the numbers mr. williams was throwing around, wondering if he could give us estimated number of jobs saved through the stimulus plan. host: ok.

we have temporarily lost the mayor's signal but we are talking about state budgets and the local economy is, in reference to what the states are facing next year. we have a story from yesterday's "the washington post." the good news is much of the pain has been cushioned by billions of dollars of federal spend less money that allowed states and localities to avoid laying off teachers, prison guards, police and firefighters. the bad news is for the next fiscal year beginning in july the picture looks a bit bleaker. revenue is expected to remain depressed even if the national economy improves. there will be only half as much federal stimulus available and many states already used up their emergency reserves. most states just approve the budget of the fiscal year that began july 1 and the legislatures have adjourned for the summer. in a dozen or more states, the budgets have already gone into the red less than two months of this year by $24 billion. more than 30 states are projecting deficits for next year, according to the center for budget and policy

priorities and other expert estimates. let us go to our next call from augusta, georgia. the democratic line. caller: oi just retired as a truck driver. what have they done and what are they going to do to try to improve their family -- they don't stand for nothing, they don't believe in no organization or doing anything to help the working person, most of the poor working people in this country have been poor for the last 40 years and they have been brainwashed in the south. when are they going to wake up and think for themselves? if they slow up and look around, just take time and look around and see coming into their own time and getting rich, but are getting rich -- people come to the american to get rich. i worked 33 years on the job as

a truck, i say the last 10 years -- the last eight years when bill clinton left, george bush got in there and every truck driver on nevers, they supported george bush. george bush does not believe an organized labor. now they are blaming barack obama. he has been there less than a year and are blaming him for everything. all they got to do is go down to home depot and see who is getting on the back of the truck. host: do you have a question for the mayor. caller: to tell them to hang tough, like the mayor in detroit. guest: @ thank you. host: galveston, texas. the independent line. caller: my question is -- why

this city's do not resist more when the federal mandates come down and the unfunded. i will hang up. guest: that is a great question. we do resist, but as you can imagine, if a federal mandate comes down that is unfunded or a state mandate, it is difficult for cities to resist. i can tell you that youngstown and time has challenged the state of ohio on certain issues where we believe our sovereignty as a city or independents or home rule authority is being challenged. but there is always a leverage of the federal or state funding that the federal or state government has. we just don't lie down quietly. if we believe something is unfair we will look -- work with the state delegation in congress. you can imagine their often heated pitched battles when it

comes to unfunded mandate -- mandates that are pushed down to cities that collectively have fewer resources. host: >> -- next call on the republican line, leavenworth, kansas. caller: i, and then a question for the mayor. first is, i think what we need to look at right now is what happens in california. they are $30 billion behind in their budget and no one seems to understand why. the major reason, i believe is because of the illegal immigration happening there. it is not being challenged. the federal government is not making the law stand up. they are allowing the people to sneak into the country, take these jobs that young men and young women used to get, take the money and go back to mexico and given to the mexican government down there. something like $90 billion to

$100 billion a year goes that way, not taxed, money that is not being collected, not being collected in fica, also funds not being collected for taxes -- local, state, and federal government. if you don't stop that problem, all of this sprawling been around is just a waste of time. it throwing money around is just a waste of time. -- throwing money around the system was the time. guest: i am not saying that problem does not exist in ohio. probably not to the extent and some of the border states. i am not here to disagree that we don't have a federal issue as it relates to the legal and illegal immigration beard but at the end of the day, when it comes to the stimulus package will have to address problems at hand. you cannot exchange one problem for the other. but the president, when he talked about having to address

those issues that have long-term ramifications while at the same time addressing the immediacy of the financial crisis -- again, border states have additional challenges that states in the midwest have, but it does affect the economic condition of the country. i would agree. host: we have to live in there. thank you so much for joining us. next up, a conversation with michael joseph grosz from "the advocate. " we will be right back. >> new supreme court justice sonia sotomayor is welcome to the white house. live coverage at 10:15 a.m. eastern. former supreme court justice sandra day o'connor is one of

the 16 recipients of this year's presidential medal of freedom beard others include rev. joseph lowery, senator edward kennedy and stephen hawking, first presented by president truman. live coverage at 3:10 p.m. eastern here on c-span. as members of congress hold about the proposals. what you can share your experiences and ideas on video, go to c-span.org/citizen video for the details. them every morning this month, " washington journal" talks live with top nonfiction authors about their new summer releases. our guests include ron kessler, t.r reid and haynes johnson. we will take your calls, e-mail, and tweets. >> bill clinton kicks off year

2009 netroots nation convention. live at 8:00 eastern and c-span. friday, panels on health care reform with howard dean, pennsylvania politics with senator arlen specter, making change happen, and reshaping the supreme court. >> "washington journal" continues. host: adjoining from new york is michael joseph gross, a contributing writer for "the advocate" magazine which as a cover story that features president barack obama under the headline nope would they? -- the greatest hope but yet to deliver. what does it say about him and what does our impatience a about us? thank you for joining us. guest: thank you. host: for readers who have not seen the article, what is the idea of the peace -- piece? guest: barack obama promised a lot to gay and lesbian people.

he has not delivered much. there is a lot of anger building this summer. i was curious to look at the question of whether the current impasse really reveals more about his resistance to making progress or our own it in but tense in figuring out how to organize. host: what are the key issues the gay community is concerned about? guest: they're spending hate crime legislation is, that would protect us from discrimination in employment, pending legislation that would extend the federal benefits to employees of the government, and, of course, don't ask don't tell and marriage, but two big ones. host: what has the president done or what has his administration done so far on those issues? guest: right out of the gate, hillary clinton as secretary of state expended a lot of benefits

to employees there. later on the president extended a number of similar benefits to federal employees but stopped short that would require an act of congress to secure. we've got hate crimes moving along through congress, it passed the house and is in the senate now. i believe the employment nondiscrimination act has just been reintroduced. senator gillibrand is pressing for the first hearings for don't ask, don't tell, this fall. as far as what is coming from the white house, there are two small gestures. host: we have a clip of president barack obama talking to the gay community.

. >> so we are all witnesses to monumental changes in this country. that should give us hope. but we cannot rest. we must continue to do our part to make, -- progress, step-by- step. i want g. to know in this task i will not only be your friend, i will continue to be an ally and champion and president that fights with you and for you. host: what is your reaction to that? guest: beautiful words, and i have no doubt they are heartfelt, but that is all they are. there is something else he said at that party. that clip was from a reception held at the white house to mark the 40th anniversary of the stonewall riots in 1969 which are generally paid to be the beginning of the modern-day civil rights movement. in that reception, he also

described stonewall as a moment when these folks who were marginalized rose up to challenge not just the way the world saw them but also the way they saw themselves. that was the line that really jumped out to me. and i think we are at an inflection point in the movement where we need to change the way we see ourselves. we need to see ourselves as powerful people and go ahead and start asking and pressing in very strategic and smart ways to get what we want to. host: talking about gay and lesbian issues with michael joseph gross from "that advocate" magazine. one of the things you discuss that a thought was interesting was not only the administration's point, but the organization of the gay community and sort of a lack of unity.

it is hard to see how a critical mass of gay people might be moved to experience themselves as gay first and foremost. how we might be moved to choose their radically separates its identity that has been in our history our best weapon. is it possible the enemy has changed? if so, is it possible the different techniques are called for? how organized is the gay community on the issues that you identified? guest: we have a lot of organizations working on our behalf -- national gay and lesbian task force, a number of smaller organizations, and then groups like the action fund. they all have their strategies. as larry kramer points out, the playwright, novelist, activist who founded act up, really the kind of reigning hero of the gay civil rights movement, we don't

have an organization at the national level -- it is organizing in a creative way to push things forward. act up was a group of people got together and decide what they wanted and then figured out how to get the most publicity for the story of the injustice that is behind this need for change. what i don't feel like we have is anybody who is telling the stories of the real suffering and a real injustice behind these petitions that we are making to the government. nobody is talking about the lesbian in san antonio who works at wal-mart will can't get health care for her partner, nobody talking about the guy in nebraska who can't visit

everybody thinks that gay people are a bunch of rich white well- moisturized guys who live in cities. that is just not the case. host: let us hear from our viewers. the first call comes from los angeles, libby on the democratic line. are you there? good morning. caller: good morning, how were you? my view on that, because i have -- if you want to put it that way, well it is true, my oldest son, he was married to what turned out to be a homosexual person. they had four children and -- he was a truck driver, at best age of 36 he had made over $3 million. she was cleaning her and her friend were going to last vegas

and displays -- last vegas' -- las vegas, but she was going off with a lover. he found out about that and he went there and caught them. i said, let these people have their rights so they can marry each other and do whatever they want to do, just so they can not mess up someone else's life like she messed up my sons. host: we will go to the next call on the republican line, wisconsin. tim. callersorry, wrong line. independent line, palm beach, florida. caller: exgay -- i'm ex-gay.

can you explain why you have not supported the ex-gay movement. there are many homosexuals and lesbians on happy -- unhappy because of a high promiscuity in the home of sexual world, use of drugs and alcohol, many decided to leave the gay community but you have not been supported. can you comment on that, please? guest: can you tell me what kind of support you would like? host: he is no longer on the line. guest: i am sorry, i really don't understand a question. host: republican my beard wisconsin. t. im caller: i'm 27. i have a girlfriend and we have a kid but cannot afford insurance -- we don't want to get married so i cannot afford to put on my own insurance.

now with the gay marriage, talking about being able to get insurance for their partner and everything, how is it right for gay people to be able to get insurance for their couple when i cannot even pay for insurance for my girlfriend and my baby, considering she had custody and everything, according to the state. i can't even pay for that just being single with her, i cannot be put on insurance. how is it fair for people to be able to just get a certificate saying they got a civil union and they can get insurance for their significant other but i can't -- i actually have to get married to have insurance for my girlfriend and child. host: mr. gross guest: our society has structures that require people to make certain vows of commitment in order to

receive benefits in exchange. if you and your girlfriend shows to make those vows, then you would get the benefits that you would like to have. gay people who choose to make that bout of commitment, public declaration that they are partners, can get certain benefits themselves. so, the question, as i see it, it's really more about what kind of decision you and your partner would like to make. affirming your commitment to each other. host: on the next call, democratic from maine. caller: gay men, 44 years old, hiv-positive since 1985. did everything in my power to

survive. i am priced out of job market and soon priced out of my home. i don't have any options, don't know where to look for options. the gay community is doing nothing to help individuals who are in the same position, to pull ourselves up by the bootstraps, and netbook -- no one seems to look or care. the gay community in this city, they are the most backbiting organization i have ever seen in my life. they go to their own little circles, they go to their own little clubs, they look for all like-minded individuals. when the age of the epidemic came and they were asking everyone to stand up and be counted, i was counted, and i wanted to be counted because i wanted to be part of that group. i wanted our voice to be heard. as soon as the triple therapies came out, went back to the same old games. it is disappointing to be part of a group that can't stay together for the long haul but they can stay together when they

need something where they feel threatened. host: mr. gross. guest: i hear that frustration and i empathize with it. let me point out a couple of things. one is of the generation gaps that hobble this movement. there is a huge gap between the act of generation and what we will call the "will & grace generation. the rage of the first generation of activists is not mind, unless i try. and there is an even bigger gap between my generation and younger people coming out now, the facebook generation. most of them don't even know anybody who is hiv-positive or who has had aids. so, we have these gaps that we have to deal with as a community. and often we choose to just get angry and stop talking to each

other instead of looking for the common ground we have. we need to stick with each other. you need to keep going to those meetings, even if they make you frustrated and angry. you need to let your voice be part of the group. until we all get together -- until your story -- which is a real powerful story -- gets heard, we will weast -- we will be stuck where we are. host: we have another clip from president barack obama where he is discussing the don't ask-and don't tell policy. >> finally i want to say a word about don't ask, don't tell. as i said before, and i will say it again, i believe don't ask, don't tell, doesn't contribute to our national security. in fact, i believe preventing patriotic americans from serving their country weakens our national security. [applause]

my administration is already working with the pentagon and members of the house and senate on how we will go about ending this policy, which will require an act of congress. it some day i am confident we will look back at this transition and ask why it generated such angst. but as commander in chief at the time of war, i do have the responsibility to see this change is administered any practical way and a way that takes over the long term. that is why i asked the secretary of defense and chairman of the joint chiefs of staff to develop a plan on how to fairly implement a repeal. host: what is the status of the repeal of damascus, don't tell? guest: we keep asking the white house that question every single day. when the pressure was put on the white house earlier this summer, when people started asking about this, hammering away, finally robert gibbs announced the deadline.

he said the goal was to repeal it by the end of the first term. right after that, secretary gates said that they are looking at ways to perhaps suspend -- he implied this, but did not state it correct -- directly, but looking at ways to perhaps in for said in a more humane way, i think his words. which might mean suspending investigations until such time that congress can pass a bill repealing don't ask, don't tell. the white house says this is complices ball and congress is why -- congress says it needs the lead from the white house. the truth is, the american public is ready for this. the military is ready for this. but people in congress are worried about midterm elections and the white house is worried about backing up those democratic congressman. and nobody is sure that the gay movement is going to be out there to have their backs if

they take risks for us. we need to show them that we are. nathaniel franc and the folks at the center at the university of california's santa barbara have done the legal work to prove that the president has executive authority to suspend investigations on this. he can do it, and he should do it now, because every day that goes by, when he doesn't, we are losing more soldiers that we need. we are losing arabic translators, we are losing guys who have won bronze stars. there is simply no reason for it. they are already serving with an under gay soldiers from the many countries in nato forces who are our allies and do combat

alongside us. host: republican line from redding, pennsylvania. bernie. caller: you make some interesting points. one of them being the history of all of this. i don't think the public at large knows the full history of why gays and lesbians want equal what -- equal rights as everyone else. starting back even 100 years ago and going into world war ii, we all know that game and in large numbers were marched to concentration camps, used for experimentation, used for target practice, and basically the rest of them were gassed and even after the war was over they were still incarcerated. moving into -- into the 1950's, and 1960's, illegal in this country for people of the same sex to dance in clubs or walk down the street to get. during the aids crisis, we could not sit there and watch our brothers and some sisters die

from aids because we did not have that privilege of being involved in their health care. but on a local level, i am presently in the process here in redding, pa., getting a change to the human relations commission. sexual orientation, gender identity and expression added to the commission. but a lot of small towns in america have budgetary problems. and with litigation in those areas, they would not be reimbursed from state and federal governments from eeoc claims and housing claims. that is behind hesitation in some of the small towns to change it. so, we have to do something on the state and national levels to get this done, and it comes down to education. educating people to know why you want these things, why we want these things. we want to step up, be included at the table with decision making. and we deserve it, quite

honestly, because we handsomely contribute to the bottom line in state and local and even national community. that is all i have to say. guest: that is such a great point. i wish so often that people could know exactly what you have just said. i wish they could no that we just want to stop fighting for this stuff. we really want to get past the so we can help -- so we can find in afghanistan and iraq, put all of the energy into climate change, fixing the terrible things better going wrong with our environment. so we can just be a part of the american family. it is all we want. we don't want to stand around yelling.

we don't want to stand around yelling. we just want to help. host: on the independent line from arlington, va., lisa. caller: with all due respect, i am sympathetic. but maybe african american female, you are not being water hose, lynched, you have access to education, you can set at lunch counters, you did not have the struggle my parents' generation did. i want to tell you there are date and -- gay and straight people sitting at home right now with no jobs. there are gay and straight people who don't have access to health insurance. i think it is really unfair york in patients with this president with all that is going on. -- you're in patients. let us fix the underlying problem that affects all americans today and then we will work on your issues. i would like you to comment on that. guest: thank you for bringing up the differences between the gay

and black civil rights movement. there are some very important differences that i think we often forget, and you alluded to some of them. however, with all respect, there are a lot of gay people who are attacked. there are gay people who have their heads bashed in. every month this happens. i don't have the statistics in front of me, but i am sure it is more frequent than that. while i was writing this article, just in the two weeks i was working on that, this is a -- there was a couple in el paso that went into a talk of joint, they give themselves a quick kiss on look lips and they were arrested. a couple walking across a public square in salt lake city and gave themselves a quick check -- pat on the cheek and they were arrested. there was a man who was standing with a bottle of water in a bar

in fort worth, texas, the cops walk in the ostensibly to check bullet kirk will license of the place, and they took this guy down, wac him with their clubs and he ended up in the hospital with a blood clot that has not gone away. so, please don't tell me that gave people are not in danger. -- gay people and not in danger. i may not be, most of those on tv may not be. but there are table in small towns, medium-sized cities, there are gay people all over the country living in fear. that is real. that is the reason we are here. host: democratic line. new orleans, louisiana. andrew. caller: i'm a veteran. by all means, i totally support your fight for equal rights. but i have to say, being in the army for four years, i know a lot of gay people in the army

and we don't ask, they don't have to tell us, we all know that they are gay. sometimes they tell us, but the point i am trying to make is that the majority of gay and lesbian service members are not treated, and these from my perspective, differently than anyone else in the military. i think what we see with arabic translators and people who get prestigious awards, in my opinion, are just really brought to the forefront by something that could maybe wait until more pressing issues like equal rights, if you want to go visit your significant other and the hospital, or health care, which you can enroll in. until those get taken care of -- the military issue, as far as don't ask, don't tell, can wait. thank you.

guest: thanks for the stories. it is really good to hear that. i would love to hear more stories about straight soldiers serving with gay soldiers and what it is like 4 straight people. i think the more you talk about that, the more you hear about that, the more you understand just how completely silly this policy is. as you point out, there are a lot of gay people who are serving quite openly in the military right now, but what you didn't say is those people are serving openly at the whim and pleasure of their street colleagues because of the minute you were -- straight colleagues, because the minute you were one of you decides that that guy shouldn't be able to talk about his boyfriend, shall in be able to be open -- you know there could be a report, an investigation.

that guy could be drummed out, lose his job. he could lose his benefits or everything he has been working for. and that is up cert. -- absurd. your other point about prioritizing various kinds of reforms is also one that is very well taken. although, i disagree in that marriage equality or civil unions really needs to take precedence over don't ask, don't tell. don't ask, don't tell, is, in my view, it pretty clear cut and simple one, both in legal terms. the president has the authority to suspend this policy right now. and if we have an honest and open date -- debate about this in congress, i think there is very the tool doubt that the only white fang for them to do can be very clearly to suspend the policy.

the effect of changing that policy would be enormous because the military is -- because the military is a profession that includes people from all classis, all races, the effect of integrating gay people in to that body with total candor and without reservation is something that would reverberate up and down the social spectrum. in a way very little else could. and it would have a similar effect to the racial integration of american troops by harry truman just less than half a century ago. host: on the republican line. athens, texas. wayne. are you there? caller: yes, i am here.

host: the have a question? -- do you have a question? from iowa, jim on the independent line. caller: morning. -- good morning. . caller: will live in the barracks together? if bob and mary are straight and they cannot, they cannot. there is a good possibility that

the two gay guys can. you talk about good order and discipline and all kinds of problems that accompany a unit -- it will be a nightmare. there is also a good possibility when it comes around to time of talk about promoting people, if your sergeant is gay and first sergeant is gay, and you are straight, you have all kinds of problems about who is getting promoted for what, when, and why. to think that this stuff does not happen, i will refer you to the st. paul fire department that had problems exactly like this. host: would you like to respond? guest: you sound like a very fearful person with a very active sexual imagination. host: we will have to leave it there. thank you for joining us today. michael gross, contributed an

editor for the advocate magazine. first, an update. >> the commerce to prepare reports that the u.s. trade deficit to edge up slightly in june as imports rose for the first time in 11 months. it is a sign that the recession is beginning to loosen its grip on the economy. in the associated press, calling it a good sign for american producers, said that exports rose for the second straight month. global demand may be starting to rebound. interest rates are expected to be unchanged and the fed reserve is considering whether consumer lending programs should be expanded. more and reaction to healthcare reform. senator arlen specter says he thinks those who have been angrily disrupted meetings are "not necessarily representative of america" -- he made those remarks earlier on the early show on cbs.

meanwhile, the swastika was printed outside the district office in georgia. mr. scott covenant and act that reflects an increasingly hateful and racist debate. max baucus has set a mid- september deadline for reaching an agreement with committee republicans on health care overhaul bills, but the senators have said that date could change. finally, american express and discover said it will soon stop imposing fees and customers who are charging over their credit limit. this is ahead of new regulations set to take effect in regular. -- take effect in february. "washington journal washington journal" continues. host: we're back taking a look get headlines. on the front page here, a story about president obama's management style. how much detail is enough?

these reporters read, many presidents have directed policy from on high 0 commissioning details. mr. obama has adopted a different style, particularly with economics. jimmy carter was the famed micromanage, often at odds with his own advisers, and cut a lot of criticism for his focus on details.

you need to find a balance between over-generalizing and too much detail. that was said by the white house budget director. you can phone a in. -- you can phone in. in an analysis piece of what congress and the white house are facing when they return in september, this reporter writes, while mr. obama and fellow democrats did enact the $787 billion stimulus, much remains undone. health care, global warming, and a financial overhaul among those. he writes that they did push through a massive package of tax cuts and other measures to help alleviate the recession. they clamped down on cigarette producers and placed the first hispanic on the supreme court.

let's take our first call from baltimore, md., on the line for democrats. caller: hi, good morning. i have three points and then a question. i was actually trying to get through to your previous guest. i used to work for john hopkins -- johns hopkins on the aids research team. i worked for the government. i wanted to ask him if he thought there could be a possibility of a new equal rights amendment for women, including homosexuals.

please know that i am a naderraider on my tweets. homosexuality is genetic. alexander the great and richard the lionheart were day and none to be so while they lived. -- richard the lionheart were gay and were known to be so. i went to a town hall meeting on monday night, and with all the swastikas and hate, and people saying they wish mr. obama were present said they could lynch him -- it really made me sick and i had to leave. i did not realize that racism existed so much in maryland and i found it really upsetting. the third thing, i hope that the energy bill for cap and trade does not make it through the senate, because it will be left up to the -- to regulate,

causing stricter regulation. we owe it to this planet to put something back into it. host: seattle, washington, on the republican line. yes, go ahead. caller: hi, i am from washington. i am cco for the republican party in this area. it is not abouall about the heah care. it is about everything they have been doing. the big, government programs have been overwhelming. people see that these programs have just been for the wall street people. i was hoping obama would be different, but he is even worse than bush.

all these programs that he has had have been for the wall street people, so people of course do not trust this health- care thing. they see it going for the illegal aliens, you know? it is more than just the health care. it is the illegal aliens, the wall street bailout, the big government programs, going for wall street. that is the problem. host: the front page of "the washington post" talking about the economy.

the next call is from mel bourne, fla., on the independent line. go ahead. caller: i am just trying to say something to the homosexual community and to the american people. basically, i know how i feel and i have a feeling this is the way many americans feel.

i am not particularly caring one way or the other what the homosexual community does. where it bothers me is when it is crammed down my throat and with this marriage routine, as far as the civil union is concerned, i think they could probably have the same rights as everyone else. that does not bother me. what bothers me is the cramming it down our throats, the same- sex marriage. this is not just an agenda by the homosexual community. this is an agenda to tear down the american way of life and reduce it to something that they can start over and have what i consider to be a more marxist approach to the world order. i think this is not what the american people want. it is the same thing with the

republicans and democrats. as long as people keep thinking the republicans and democrats instead of an independent approach for there are good parts in both, and looking at the good parts and not having to support things we do not believe in. i do not believe in the homosexual way of life, therefore it should not be crammed down my throat. as a retired military officer i can tell you, there is no reason why as this young man said just a few minutes ago, the guy and two people walked in and kissed each other on the lips and got thrown in jail. well, they should not get thrown in jail, but they should not be kissing each other either. as well, heterosexual couples should not be walking -- is considered bad manners, to walk down and show affection in public. host: nashville, tenn..

caller: good morning, i want to talk about the housing situation. it is very obvious what is going on. there is a problem all over the nation with come builders associations. a group of powerful builders that go from state to state -- a problem with hon builders associations -- home builders' positions. there is no accountability or supervision. i want to suggest a book "the views of local government." if someone wants to understand what is going on with the housing situation, please read the book. host: the line for democrats.

caller: healthcare reform will be beneficial to the entire american public. people think these 47 million are not being served. they are. they are uninsured, been served, and the taxpayers pay for it with property taxes, state and federal income taxes. we are paying for them now. this public option is not a free bie. at the very minimum they must pay the same as medicare's do. the more you have paying for something, the cheaper. the fewer pain, the more you have to pay. -- the fewer who are paying, the more you have to pay. the public option must be in there to give competition to the insurance industry to lower

their prices. from one man to make $102,000 per hour is obscene. we need to pass this for public option. the republican stands, what is in the reform bill, says that anyone who makes up to $66,000 down to $20,000 must buy insurance. the republican stance is that this is freedom in america that they should not have to buy. well, you have to buy automobile insurance to buy an automobile. why should these people enjoy their freedom and not by insurance? then go to the hospital and we have to pay for it? host: republican line, fort lauderdale. caller: yes, hi. i just want to make a comment. i just turned you on after not watching for a long time.

there are lots of gay people here in fort lauderdale. my brother turned out of date and my father blamed my mother. back in wisconsin no one talked about that. -- my brother turned out gay. i have been around gay people and i think that people are overreacting. i do not know the financial aspect of giving the marriage. why not? who cares? it is a small minority. in terms of just giving them rides, who cares? the guy gets mad because they kissed in public -- gay people are fun, funny -- there are lots of good things about them. -- in terms of just giving them rights, who cares? they are really just a little different. when i served in the military my first sergeant was gay, but she

was mean to street women, i will be honest. but that could have been for other reasons. -- she was mean to straight women. it is stupid -- let them get married. what is wrong with celebrations and having fun? host: did you say you served in the military? caller: yes, and my first sergeant was a lesbian and she was mean. host: what they think about do not ask, do not tell? caller: i am not an expert on the policy. but as long as they do not tell that they are gay, do not get in trouble? that is what president clinton put intoy effect putes, well -- as long as they do their job -- that is what president clinton put into effect? it does not matter to me. there were tgay men in my you

did too, and they kept it well- covered up -- there were gay men in my unit. what is wrong is that there was some guy who is gay and they spent a million dollars turning him and then kicked him out. that is not logical or practical. we needed that person in the military. they spent a lot of money turning him, so if he does his job well, who cares? we have enough problems. people who have an inner problem -- it must be something that bothers them about their own identity. i know who i am and i can hang out with gay people. caller: hello, two points. there is a rally in one month on the capitol on 9-12.

it will be a huge rally for conservatives to show they are out there, and have a constitutional, peaceful road. host: is it about a specific issue, robert? caller: i am not the one putting it together, but if you google an official website -- 9-12 marched on d.c. it will explain. it is to protest with conservatives like myself feel is a move toward some policies. we hope to have a big turnout. host: md., on the line for

democrats. caller: i hope i have enough time to make comments. my son was a homosexual. he served in the army for two years. he came out with a discharge. he was educated by the united states army. he did not die in iraq, but on the streets of washington. he was bashed in the head because of this gender preference. not only that, when people say that people are shoving things down their throats, did they think that although that heterosexuals are the norm and most of the people who talk about this, they go back to paul

in the bible. but when man said laws such as in england for all of this begins -- and that is a matter of record, why is it that that is still rampant in england -- two men? most of our laws come from england. i do not understand "shutting it down your throat" means that because you seize someone who happens to express a desire, whatever they express, like kissing, or display of affection -- why should that bother you if you have a heterosexual wife? if i'm in a nightclub and two

men are there with each other, and you have to take him outside when you leave and bash in his head? thank you for letting me make those comments, but i'm getting upset. people need to stop and think. look at history, at what has happened, and where we are today. see how you've derived that decision. host: columbus, ohio, on the independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. first of all, on the gay issue, it reflects the republican philosophy, conservative philosophy that they want to be free from the government, but want to impose their morality is even to the point where the extreme position is to present displays of any kind of affection in public which is ridiculous.

also, people talk about the health care reform issue. they want to be free and take care of himself. but no one lives on an island. even if they did there are risks to the general public when people are left amongst us who do not have treatment for healthcare. risks such as and treated community-acquired staph infections, tuberculosis, std's, smoking, h1n1, even random violence from people and treated for mental illness. the idea that people can protect themselves and their health when other people amongst us are residents and citizens do not have access, it is risky for everyone. lastly, republicans have talked about wanting tort reform, and i

think it should be linked with the insurance providers decreasing malpractice insurance. that should be linked with better reporting of medical mistakes. studies have confirmed that over the past decade the medical community has made very little progress in decreasing huge medical errors that cost nearly 200,000 people per year their lives. it makes hospitals a risky place. i want to know why we have not talked about better protection for whistleblowers, health-care workers who report what they believe in good faith to be negligence? rendell of health-care workers report malpractice they are taking a huge risk of loss of employment and all kinds -- right now, all kinds of ramifications. there better be better protection for tort reform.

host: today, this reporter writes in this column -- toilet paper bear kids. fights can go on as long as they have to in the seventh row of "by club." -- the seven rule. the art of talking, listening, and ascertaining the truth seems more elusive than ever in this age, lost in a bitter stream of mis information. the world that obama was supposed to ensure in has vanished. she continues further down in the column, the young, grass- roots army that swept obama into office has yet to mobilize now that the fight is complicated. no, they cannot? we see the ugly scenes of mostly

older and white malcontents, disrupting forms were others have come to learn. instead we get swastikas and death threats. president obama has proven in stings, but not in this case. you'd think the politicians schooled and community organizing would be ready to squash this. like it or not, a speaker nancy pelosi, that is democracy in action. obama knows how to rise to the occasion even when others are in the dirt, but he may be running out of time. the next call comes from steve on the line for democrats. caller: yes, i am calling to let people know about health care -- i keep watching people screaming on the networks. here's the problem. most people doing the hollering and other questions -- their questions are based on

information they read that will not even be voted on. one of the ladies at a town hall yesterday was asked -- most of those questions come from r ush limbaugh and others like an. she was his plan and others with her that they work mis informed -- this is not even in the bill. then, when he answered that question for them instead of them listening they were screaming and hollering. how can in would have a discussion if they do not listen to one another's opinions? host: on the republican line from philadelphia. caller: you do a great job, young lady. my comment is about the history of recession. the democrats created the first

recession in 1937. there was a tariff act from 1890 that was signed into law by president harrison. the act included among other items, taxing opium and marijuana at $10 per pound. you have the fbi in the 1930's who created so much propaganda against people who believe these things who believe these things should not exist anymore, going up to the prohibition. i am a muslim who supported over cleveland twice. we will continue to boycott any body who wants to be like ronald reagan. thank you. host: today in "the usa today" they note that president obama will award the medal of freedom,

one to senator kennedy. he now mourns his sister. he will not be on hand to receive this highest honor. his daughter will accept the word for him. -- though award will be accepted by his daughter for him. senators libber on health care, and the top legislative priority of the health care -- they find that he is an enthusiastic and jovial lawmaker still. good morning, caller. caller: one thing that really upsets me is the idea that everyone who tries to go to these meetings tries to get answers. we have the different groups in

the house and senate talking about these bills. people talking about an obama health care plan, right now there is no plan. they do not have the facts or figures. when you ask a question you do not get anything other than a generalized answer. i am 70 years old and in this group of people who have been extremely invested future in this health care. i wanted done properly, not screaming, but decent, fact- filled answers. host: will have to leave it there. coming up we will speak with david clarke. ♪

>> sonia sotomayor is welcome to the white house this morning as a new supreme court justice. we will take you there live at 10:15 a.m. eastern. the former supreme court justice is one of 16 recipients of this year's presidential medal of freedom. others include senator ted kennedy and stephen hawking. it was first presented in 1945 by president truman. as members of congress hold health care town hall meetings across the country, c-span is interested in your thoughts. you can share your experiences and ideas on video. good to our website c-span.org/

citizenvideo for the details. >> this author on the fairness doctrine and why it is a bad idea. he is interviewed by this commentator, part of the weekend on ." >> this producer, concerning people who have overcome significant obstacles in life. that is sunday night at 8:00 p.m. >> this fall, home to america's highest court. the supreme court, coming the first sunday in october on c- span. "washington journal" continues. host: we're joined now by cq's david clarke read an article

recently "how clout really works in congress." guest: the preparations committee in both the house and senate approve funding each year for the federal government. we went to look at new members to see how they're doing, how they're using their spots for influence. we found it has been a plum assignment to be on that committee. secure more money for the district's three remarks, or congressionally-directed spending, and they have more opportunity to offer amendments to bills which must pass -- interesting, a lot of the new members said they get more face time with the cabinet secretaries. at hearings or otherwise. they felt they had a chance to

press their case. we looked at clout from that perspective. if you are republican or democrat and get on the appropriations committee, you have a chance to wield more than otherwise. host: how is a member get on the appropriations committee? guest: through a lot of back door lobbying. if there is an opening in the house, there are steering committees to select who will sit on the open spot. many times it is based on which part of the country you are from. they like to have regional diversity. in the senate is a little different. but people tried for years to get on the committee. is it is a little less formal over there. host: what are the most sought after committees? guest: defense is probably the biggest, because it has the biggest budget. it is the top assignment. as well as dealing with issues of national defense. there is a lot of money, a lot

of chance to maneuver that. another would be the subcommittee that controls budgets for the health and human services, education, and labor departments. it is probably the biggest domestic spending bill. after that, it depends on what issues the member wants to focus on. the interior bill if you are from the state with national parks -- my mom to be on that subcommittee. for agriculture, members would want that appropriations subcommittee. homeland's security was popular for a while when it was caught earlier in the decade. after defense and the labor, health, and education subcommittees, it depends on what is important to that member locally. host: with regard to remarks, how do members -- does clout translate their backs guest: any member can request an earmarke

you. -- guest: any member can request an earmarked italy. leaders and members get a lot of them, as well as members in tight races. the idea is that if you have a tough contest it is nice to go home and say looked at this funding i secured for the road. critics will look at this process and say you're not a wedding is based on the merit of the project alone. it matters if the members, if they are a leader. if you are receiving the funding you have a difference view and imagine it is important your district. but you get a leg up by being a member of the appropriations committee. host: are they requested by both parties? guest: yes, and generally the

party in power has more. if you are on the appropriations committee as a minority party, you have a better chance. host: talk about difference between the house and senate? guest: we looked at that. in the senate it is easier to have more clout because there are only 100 as opposed to over 400 house members. if you are republican in the house to will not have much say in the legislative process. one of the people we looked at was steve from ohio, republican. his important issue was car dealerships. when chrysler and gm went through bankruptcy proceedings, and their contracts with dealerships -- that was an issue in his district. he attached an amendment to a spending bill that says if you

took government money as an automobile company you cannot and does contracts. he was able to use the committee for some clout and can go home to say he has done something as a minority member. host: let's take our first call from washington, greg. caller: thank you. good morning to you both. i'm very concerned about the way this government is going. this has to do with clout and many other things going on now. we have a congress that has gotten way out of hand. for example, the average person i know does not have health insurance. i live on an island where the majority are military.

therefore, all the surrounding businesses do not have to offer medical coverage because their spouse is getting it for free through the navy. we have people in congress who are voting for all these things when they have better coverage than the average person. they are supposed to be our servants, and i do not mean slaves, but i mean servants. they are using their clout to push through things they want. it drives me nuts. for example, and i may be ignorant, but this cash for clunkers thing has bothered me. this should only be offered for ford, chevrolet, and chrysler --

not for mazda and so on. the general public cannot afford to be courteous to toyota, suber, mazda. if toyota need support, then have twitter from japan, their government send them support. -- we cannot afford to be courteous to twitter come suburu, and -- to toyota, suburu and mazda. guest: you mentioned cash for clunkers and the health-care debate has been going on for quite some time. when members return in september healthcare will be at the top of the agenda and both the house and senate. there is a lot of disagreement

between parties of the the best plan. as far as what members will concentrate on, healthcare is top. another interesting thing -- the cash for clunkers program which essentially has the government provide money for those who trade in older cars for new work, more fuel-efficient cars -- that is the issue of whether the government money should go toward products built in the usa. you hear from two different angles, and one is that some of these foreign car companies do make their cars here in the u.s. so that provides jobs here. but the argument is that with american car companies not doing well, more money should be directed their. -- should be directed threre.

caller: good morning. my comment is that i really want to know where all these deficits hawks or when the republicans have the white house, senate, and house for so long? the deficit -- and no one talked about the deficit then. it is hypocritical to say we cannot afford cash for clunkers and health care now. -- back when the deficit doubled no one talked about them. guest: yes, the deficit is a serious concern. there is a lot of criticism concerning either the stimulus or health care bill is too expensive. of course, the democrats' retort

is that during the bush administration they did not do enough to reduce the deficit and debt with longer-term problems when the economy was sailing along. you hear republican said the loss control in 2006 because the party was not focused enough on issues like spending and debt. you'll probably hear more this month because the white house will release its updated deficit figures for the year. it is expected to be very high, somewhere just short of $2 trillion. we will probably hear about that next week. host: next caller? caller: good morning. my question was about how the health care lobby, the big discussion today in washington, uses their clout. i do not have an image of lawyers sitting outside the

doors of senate and congressman. i cannot understand why the obama administration does not keep the discussion simple. when the bill comes about we would get the pre-existing condition,s, but the one thing i do not hear people talking about that i have on my policy through my job is exclusions. there are so many exclusions and i am reasonably educated, that i think i need an attorney to tell me what is and is not excluded. if you have health insurance, except for possibly voodoo medicine, why should there be exclusions from coverage? the consumer should only have to know and have a choice about what kind of a deductible and co-pay.

if they kept it simply and allow you to take lower versions and pay higher monthly, or a higher deductible and co-pay for a lower monthly cost and keep it simply without exclusions, without a pre-existing conditions -- the american people could more easily understand the discussion. we could go forward. guest: one of the issues with exclusions is cost. there is a lot of concern about the bills moving through congress. anyone with health-insurance is concerned about how much they are paying. the caller brought up the idea of keeping things simple. that is one thing you see with members serving they are struggling to expand the debate to the public. you might see that at town house

now. it is a complex subject. it is hard to simplify. many in the public know congress is dealing with healthcare, but do not understand specifically what they want to do. that creates tension. host: let me get your opinion of thispie piece. he writes that the senate finance committee's gang of six is drafting legislation that might shape the final deal without a public option. the represent a few states. among them these six states hold fewer people than new jersey and represent your than 3% of the u.s. population. -- fewer than 3% of the population.

guest: there is a lot of focus on the senate finance committee writing one of the two bills. the senate health committee has already proved its and the house finance committee is working on its measure. they will combine those on the floor. but all the attention has been on these six senators. max baucus, chuck grassley, mike from wyoming, olympia from maine, new mexico, and one other. guest: yes, it is three democrats and three republicans. why are these six in room deciding? their argument is that there trying to come up with the bipartisan measure and this is the best way. senator rockefeller has aired concerns.

they will say i'm on the committee, why shouldn't i be involved? probably the first area upon return is can these six come up with a deal? host: but how did these senators get to this point where they yield this kind of clout? guest: you have two senators from each state. at the senate rewards of longevity. you will move up the ladder in the committee structure and eventually become a chairman. longevity gains power. it does not have anything to do with how many members there represent that come. in some cases it comes from the fact that they can be a swing vote. olympia snowe is from maine, a moderate state. she will vote with democrats on a variety of bills and her but

can be key to breaking a logjam or filibuster. with the stimulus bill it was stuck. republicans had the votes to block it. generally you need 60. the democrats went to olympia snowe and her fellow maine republican, susan collins, as well as arlen specter who was still republican than. they try to cut a deal. that is another way that a senator can wield influence if the margin is so close that their boat is key. -- that there vote is -- their vote is key. caller: good morning. i have a couple of comments. on the question of clout, we have a dairy business and can i get any senators or congressman to help.

we do not done enough i think to their campaigns to be recognized by them. a question on insurance, we are small business and must provide our own interests which costs us $1,200 as a family of four. i do not hear anything about small businesses and their costs. we do have one employee. that is more insurance. i do not think we really have any voice in the senate or congress. guest: the issue of small businesses has been a big part of the debate, mostly focused on if it is mandated, and how to do that with a small business. there has been a concern there. many moderate democrats from

rural districts -- there has been a lot of talk about how to treat a small business and the new health-care plan. would you exclude them from something stam things? small businesses do have a couple of powerful lobby groups to. host: a question from twitter. guest: sure, that will always be an issue. members have to raise money to run for reelection. people who want to influence them will donate to their campaigns. particularly in recent years, if you went to the appropriations committee which i focus on -- there has been corruption issues. there has been a question of what someone is getting for

their donations. most members say it does not affect them at all. but there have been investigations that show that obviously donating money does have an impact on what a member will do. there is always talk of campaign finance reform. it is an annual topic. host: the next call is from lakeland, fla. caller: yes, i am a facilitator at an outpatient drug program. i am a recovering addict. we were told monday night that this program with besunsetted. it runs from the regional medical center -- and it will be sunsetted. insurance companies do not want to pay for it anymore. this program has helped so many

in this community to get sober. now we have insurance companie'' come in and a lakeland regional is non-profit. this program, the outpatient program does not lose money. that is the kind of money that we want to spend predictabl -- e want to spend preventatively. i am baffled that an insurance company can decide not to cover treatment. guest: i do not know specifics about this particular program, but it is an issue in the debate going on for months. what type of treatment or

procedures will it cover? much of that comes down to cost. that is what you see focus on the cost of either insurance or with the government pays. host: on the independent line from new york city. caller: this is a great program and my first time,. the me ask, i do not understand that when the majority party can pass a program when running for reelection -- if you are a number of a minority party, will be harder [unintelligible] guest: in congress is much easier to do things if you are part of the party in control. right now, if you are democrat your parties will get more attention. it is a little different in the

senate. minority members still have a decent chance to influence. there is the debate on the senate floor which is more open. you can offer any amendment. in the house it is tough for minority member to have much clout. the number of amendments to be offered is restricted. minority committees do not have much chance. the appropriations committee is a little different. during the process liniments are more open and more bipartisan. this year they claim it was not. but it is probably better to be in the senate as a minority member. host: republican line. caller: i have a couple of questions. the question about who is to be covered and what kind of

coverage the people currently have -- one thing noticed is that you really ask when a person is calling, you really ask what kind of coverage they have right now. host: what kind of coverage do you have? caller: i have health insurance coverage through my employer. it is not the greatest, but it is coverage. most of the republicans who call then seem to have no sense of community at all. i know that i will be diagnosed as a republican in name only, but the bottom line is, we have community fire and police departments -- this whole charade the republicans are going through about socialized health-care, they just know how to argue better than democrats do. they have no conscience about

dubious arguments. so, i would like to seek c-span at least ask people what kind of coverage they have. -- republicans have no conscience a aboutdevious arguments. the republicans have a smokescreen funded by insurance companies. it is the same party that handed the drug industry that golden package guaranteeing that the government will be involved in prices with them. they think people are so stupid they cannot see this going on, but i am confident that at least people who are interested do see it. host: our last call from oklahoma on the line for democrats. caller: yes, i have at least

three questions. first, i want to know -- what did you do when you are all tricare and your turn get too old to be on it and do not have insurance at all? once they go to a hospital it cost them an arm and leg. then when they go back again they cannot be seen. my husband has served the military for 23 years. i guess they're called military brats. they get jobs but have no insurance. i had one who is obese and he needs help because he had sleepapnea. he can get a job because when he gets one he falls asleep.

host: did you have a question the caller: yes, i would like to see people more aware of people who do not have health care, to go for people who have children who have minimum-wage jobs who cannot get health care. guest: to her first point i'm not an expert on tricare system. many have called and and we hear about the issue of coverage. that is a big part of the debate now. 40 million people are uninsured? a big part of the debate is how to decrease the number and expand coverage. that will be a big part of the debate this fall. host: thanks for joining us, david clarke