talking about the president in the book talking about the secret service. washington journal starts now. >> federal reserve chairman's optimism was the lead this morning. >> it is saturday, august 22nd. like we said, the lead story in most major papers, we want to find out what you think in the economy and in your opinion, doa degree with the federal reserve chairman that the economy is rebounding.

you can send an email or a tweet to c-span wj. >> central bankers from around the world express confidence growing on the crisis beginning to take shape.

the worldwide outlook. it goes on at a time, almost the same time that it reported sales of existing homes dipped in july. and much bigger than an lifts expected investors reacted to the housing news and remarks.

>> going to michigan on the line for republicans. >> hi, i don't think it is rebounding. i live in wayne county. with the automotive companies, it's really bad. i have a son that works for makna international. they are getting accounts overse overseas. it seems like the big boys are ganging up on magna

international. >> what do you think it would take to see signs of improvement with magna. >> people who would supply automotive people with jobs and the owner is an old gentleman not retired. he'll work until he drops there. he's very dedicated to his company and to see that people are working and given the best deal he could possibly give everybody. >> how are you doing.

he was saying, the economy will turn around. host: are you seeing signs there that the economy is rebounding

>> i could see a little about why people need jobs. i could see that at one point in time, this were no jobs in the paper. when i say no jobs, people were losing their house left and right. a stashg contrast to the

intention. it is reasonable to declare that the worst of the crisis is behind us and that the first signs of global growth have appeared. back to the phone for the independent. >> ben bernanke and the bankers were optimistic. wondering why anyone would

believe. unemployment rising. they did nothing good in sight other than inflation. turn down your television or radio. >> ok. there you go. >> ok. i'm here. ok. what i would like to say is i feel like the economy is doing great. president obama is basically making things better for more people. the republicans to say it was basically stag nent for the top 1% of society. theyer saying we'll sacrifice many for the sak of the economy such as the big corporations. now, you are seeing -- if you

look at the surveys and things people are talking about votes. i'm optimistic myself. i'm going to open up a business. it has been owned and ran by people who were running on credit. things are bottoming out and flipping over. this is a reason why a lot of moin or thes and different type of people they are dealing their own businesses and empowering themselves. jo der remembering, what kind of sign do you see in atlanta that the economy is rebounding? >> i see there's a lot of places that have been closed and different type things such as

myself, the business. i found i can empower myself. there's more assistance to help people right now. >> the lead story in the inquirer. the recovery is said to be slow at first. it appeared to be levelling out. the prospects appear good. bernanke said in a federal conference, no missed steps by the central bank. it is my opinion that the

economy is not stabilizing. i have seen on the road i drive down everyday that businesses after businesses keep shutting y down. even my dad is having trounl paige the bills. i'm trying to figure out what is more important to me. i haven't bought me new shoes in months. i'm not disappointed with anybody. president obama is doing what he can. he's one man.

i'm sure he's doing what he can to ensure that. as far as small communities and economics, i don't see it happening yet. i've been making sure my financial future is secure. i have fear jochlt thanks for your call, the economy is levelling out. kneel erwin talks about the speech given by the chairman is

>> let's not forget it was president bush who ran the world bank. we do have a tendency to be forgetting certain things. president obama's stimulus package. he was helping to rebound our economy. one of the richest towns, they

had even stopped construction. they have stopped construction. i have a girlfriend in arizona who is an appraiser. now she is getting workday in and day out. to anticipates your question directly. the president writing with the recession. trying to make another case that their actions including the programs and their bail out and the international group.

are part of the reason. >> go ahead. i'm here. tell me about the economy there in northridge. >> it is not really that much going on. it's not really rebounding. before obama had gotten off, bush was there, bill clinton was

there. it took eight years to get it in. it's going to take at least half of that time to get out of that situation. i feel it's unfair for a lot of the citizens. we are putting in place a lot of the fault that the republicans have made. >> in the newspaper, as clun kers finish. auto dealers getting ready for the weekend rush. some reporting traffic in the

show room. on our line for democrats. >> is the rebound moving from where you are at? >> people have the ability to go out and buy a new car. this program just brought this about a very good program i might say. >> my lifetime, i started in the shop in 1960. a couple years from now, this

will be a memory. >> are you in the auto business? >> i'm retired now. i would be if i could get back on the job. i'm a tool and die maker by trade. i know various tools offed on the job. i'm anxious to get back to it.

the journey has brought this to the program. they have been recruiting or training.

>> do you think the economy is rebounding in your opinion? >> not really. the cars are being sold. it is confusing. i understand the anger of people. i understand all sides. how can it rebound? it would always rebound or it has only two ways to go. the end fighting whether it be between a democrat or republican, it would always

rebound. do you believe the actionsr1f b the fed have had any kind of effect on the speed of this cycle. >> go ahead. >> this is the first time i've ever got especially through. i'm so excited. i don't think the economy is recovering. >> if you were in the market for buying a house, you probably weren't one of the jobless people anyway. my understanding of the housing market is that home sales are

more attractive now they attribute any gains to mr. obama but any rise is just too early. host: thanks for your call. stock market yashg writes this message. what a joke, the only one doing bet sr wall street because all our tax dollars went in there to con us. on the line for democrats. go ahead.

>> good morning. there's really been two economy for a long time. the middle class has been doing poorly long before the resent melt down. banks are exploiting things. for the rest of us, we are still waiting to see if this prosperity is really going to

trickle down to the rest of us. we had a company move out recently. we are still waiting to see if industry starts moving back and reinvesting into our area.

is this another tell all. he decided to quit after two top lieutenants raised terror alert level to a scarier color for what he suspected were political reasons.

caller: why isn't obama doing that if things were so rosie host: what were you doing before you were laid off? caller: building cabinets. host: that go into homes? >> caller: no. schools.

commercials. >> schools were getting a lot of money. within three weeks, it just died out. i was in the bottom of the wrung. i got laid off. the blue mailbox slowly disappearing.

>> we have jobs that are being listed in the paper throughout the city. another thing i would like to bring up about the trade center that was crashed into by

aircraft. caller: one of the things with the turn down. >> do you work for ford? caller: no, i don't. i'm retired from the post office. host: all right, from new york. from the outside of buffalo. >> on average for the past six months, we have probably closed

two houses on the month on average. in my mind, that's devastating. >> thank you for that call and all the calls we have gotten in that particular segment. coming up is a discussion on unemployment in the economy. first, we want to tell you about news makers.

a group of forward thinking, local community leaders. along with leaders and others worried about the cost of healthcare and worried about the unexpected expenses. the assurance through the care through the full providers. those are groups now that have

helped in the plan. more on the revenue. >> you can see the entire interview at 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. on c-span. tell us what is the economic policy institute. what do you study over there? >> we have an economic think thank. we are really concerned with

policies and trends of low and moderate income people. what do these numbers indicate in the economy overall.

>> the states hit hard are the west, california, michigan getting slammed. >> we look at this national rate

of 9.5%, we know that is a great variation. we haven't even reached 10%. michigan is at 15%. the labor mark elts more affected by manufacturing, the bust of the housing bubble. really feeling the pain a lot more deeply. >> if you want to get involved in the conference. republicans 202-0001 or

electronically, the email address journal at c-span.org. the twitter address is c-span wj. >> why are the places those doing the worst?!7ñ some industries are more affected by down turns. manufacturing is one getting hit

the hardest. how that plays out on the ground is in places where there's high unionization. terry, go ahead. do they take them into account those that are already off the unemployment rolls and those that have been unemployed so long that there's no way to really account for them.

i didn't understand why congress wouldn't give the million of dollars to those who could increase >> things going back up the food chain. >> there is no way to capture something as complicated.

an unemployment rate and how the market is doing. get back to what you talked about. the marginally attached are those looking for work but are no longer actively seeking work. that number really rises. those have said i knocked on every door in my town ten times. when we include those people, plus including people who we call invol untarry part-timers.

you look at these measures, it looks a little more dire. >> asking to what extent to growing numbers. >> not seeing the part. right now, that's not a big

player in this recession. what's going on in the u.s. labor market is this decline in manufacturing that we are seeing this big shift away from manufacturing towards service jobs. that is clearly going on in our economy. we have been seeing a recession. a business cycle event. the jobs that return will look largely like the jobs that were

lost. we have such a dramatic round.  doesn't mean we are still on this decline but what we have lost will largely come back. this seems sort of like a chicken and egg problem. will people go back to work and provide the money? we need to increase demand for service

people are realizing i'm wedgier than i thought i was. the national saveings rate had gone from roughly 0% in 2006 to around 6% now. consumers aren't going to be pushing this. everyone landed on the thing to jump start at government spending.

they have to jump start this thing. the next call from john out of kentucky. go ahead. >> here in kentucky, instead of putting people in jail, just letting them out. here's a comment i want to make. i saw a guy on c-span that said the wealthiest states are right

outside of washington, d.c. but they don't produce any jobs. they are all lobbyists. until they give up control of the government, i don't think anything will happen. thank you for taking my call. >> thanks for taking the call. john from kentucky where the numbers were 5.5% in november 2000. up to 11.0% in july. >> kentucky is really getting hit hard. we know states are facing enormous crises. when revenues fall as we know

they are doing, they have no choice but to either cut spending or taxes. one of the things i have heard is let's try to reduce our prison population. we are putting them into the labor market >> we are releasing prisoners without the support. that's going to provide problems.

>> there are jobs being created right now in healthcare and it. maryland needs workers. >> 7.3% in the late 1990s, we had a national unemployment rate at less than%. >> in maryland, december 2007, the rate was 3.6%. it has doubled in the last two years. >> so maryland is definitely feeling the pain of this. we are facing a definition of a broad, widespread recession. we are seeing losses across

industries. there are always places. >> how are you this morning? >> go ahead. >> they might have hired them. they could be cheaper

[inaudible] >> i'm sorry, we were having problems hearing you. i think the gift of things had to do with regulation. that's a good question. the evidence on undock you meanted immigration, it all points to we are really seeing the reduction of that. the demand for workers has simply gone down. the larger question is how is the in flow affecting the u.s. market.

it is actually one of tree mepdious debate. we know that on average, they list the wages of the average person in the country. what are they doing to the most disadvantaged workers. to be the ones competing with those immigrants coming in. when you start to try to tease out those kind of affects. it gets a little tweaked. those affects aren't huge. there may be some adverse affects. they aren't huge.

with the most recent estimate of the affect of immigration on the low wage labor market. we can counter ambulance any affect at the low end of the labor market that support that end. with a degree from the university of michigan. on the line for republicans.

thanks for waiting. if we could he is stab mrish a new policy of a 32-hour workweek, as well as you talk wage. >> john, are you still with me? >> yes. i was. >> you are retired now? >> i'm retired. >> would the hourlies you are in talk b with, would they be willing to give up this of their

hours so their neighbors could hold on to their jobs. >> we have a company here here beemis, they were complaining about part-time workers. my comment was acid seen in the past where i worked. individuals that wouldn'ted to work more than the hours they got would go out and take a second job. there's many people i know that do that. >> stuff like that,

>> i know germany has a program where people will keep those people employed. people will pay unemployment insurance for those hours that the company needs to reduce from the labor of that worker. they can continue to work together and the company isn't hurt by workers that don't have any work to do. we can see creative solutions.

one of the problems is once the economy starts picking up, employers have a lost wiggle room to increase the hours workers have before they tire new people. one of the problem it creates is that it extends the life of high unemployment. the first thing employers are going to do is to round out workers that they have will be to round out people. we are seeing so many part-time work. that's another thing to consider in this case. >> in the "washington post," the lead story is levelling out with the fed's roll undern;÷ review. the strength of its actions. do you share the optimism that the economy is levelling out in

some papers and that the economy is rebounding. we are no longer hurdling towards the abyss. we weren't sure when that was going to happen. we are still losing 250,000 jobs a month. the pain is still deepening and will continue until at least another year. in the fourth quarter, it had decreased.

there is a huge improvement there. so far the stimulus has likely saved and preserved the stimulus. we have stepped away from the abyss. the pain in the real economy is definitely deepening. my husband is in the automotive business. he repairs cars. he was just laid off last week. my son paints cars in california in orange county.

he said down there they are cutting the rate on the labor time through the insurance company. my husband here at a very big company has no work. how can the insurance company be broke? >> how can obama succeed. >> i take a slightly more optimistic view. people see that we have

14.5 million unemployed workers. we have in the worst wave, there are now six unemployed workers for every job opening. i believe everyone knows what we need to do for our country is to get us out of this. the question is that people have vastly different beliefs. those beliefs are political. i think there's widespread belief that we need to do what we can to get ourselves out of this. >> coming from winter hey ven, florida >> good morning, hiedi, you

souped like an intelligent woman. i wanted to run this buy you. you stated we have 15-16 million people unor under employed. how can you not do the math and say if we get the illegal aliens out of our work force, which is 10-20 people and put americans back to work. they would be spending their money in the economy instead of going to flea markets and garage sales. i don't understand where you get these number that's this is a wash. companies love these numbers. the illegals at the end of the

year, tear up their tax forms and throw them away i've been unemployed almost a year now. i'll get work every two or three weeks. every time my boss bids a job, he gets beat up by companies with half the price going to illegals. . .

that enter the workforce. we can't absorb immigrants. that is true. the question that you raise that is interesting is if we are absorbing a bunch of immigrants at one end of the labour market, people with low levels of schooling, how will that affect the air comes in that area? we know that overall is fine. -- we know that overall it is fine. are we messing up the skills mix and introducing and having a low wage workers compete against immigrants? but here is the interesting thing. immigration is actually looks like this across the education distribution. we have a whole bunch of immigrants coming in with low levels of emigration but a lot coming in with very high levels of education.

if you group them and break them into two levels, workers with a high-school degree or less and those with a high-school degree, immigration is pretty similar across those groups. we have almost as many high skilled immigrants as low skilled immigrants. we are not really messing up the skills mix of our labour market with emigration. it does not end up having a dramatic effect on the wages of the low-skilled labor market. host: heidi shierholz, thank you for being on the caller: program it was my pleasure. host: we will be talking later on with ron geffner on the u.s. bank accounts. then we will also be talking with ronald kessler. all of that is coming up later on auntie "washington journal,"

today is saturday, august 22, and we will be right back. >> "washington times "call on this on "the weed man." he is interviewed by a national organization for the reform of marijuana laws. that is on afterwards tonight on c-span. >> his years as robert kennedy's secretary and a time when walter

cronkite was considered for the role of vice president. sunday night on c-span. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we will talk to you about a statement that was -- that came in yesterday's press briefing with robert gibbs. it is reported by afp under the headline "obama ok with a single term if he reaches his call." it says obama -- if he reaches his goal. he will be fine with serving only one term if he reaches some of his most audacious goals. i have heard the president say that, if making tough decisions that washington has failed to deal with for decades means that he only lives in this house and makes those decisions for four years, he is comfortable with that.

we want to get your input in and hear what you think about the president and the thought that he might trade a second term for success in some of his goals. the numbers are on the screen. you can also send us messages through e-mail and twitter. the article says that his comments came as some of president obama's democratic allies are balking at his push to remake u.s. health care, while others are on the fence about his approach to fighting climate change ahead of the 2010 midterm elections. obama has seen his job approval ratings drop from their high levels when he took office in

january. we actually have the comments made by robert gibbs in the press briefing yesterday. we will look at that and then start taking calls. >> i have heard the president say if making tough decisions and getting important things done that washington has failed to deal with for decades means that he only lives in this house and makes his decisions for quadra years, he is comfortable with that. host: -- makes his decisions for four years. host: the way he approaches these issues is not in a mode of self-preservation. obama wants to take decisions that are in the best interests of the american people, not what

is in the best interests of his personal polling numbers. about the next 20 minutes we will talk about a president and his discussion about trading in a second term for success in goals in the first term. the first call comes from ohio on the democratic line. what you think about this? caller: i think what he is attempting to do is a wonderful thing. i think the lady who called in earlier really got it when she said those in power with the money are doing all they can to defeat the plan. my other thought is -- i am 86- years old. i feel bad for this country and i am frightened because my feelings say that if some of our enemies wanted this country, they could take it because the

people that hate obama , if they came over here and said i will kill obama, they say if you kill him, you can have the country. that is something the american people cannot see. i pray for him every night. i pray for the country. host: brian from new york on the republican line. caller: morning c-span. i want to waive something in here. anytime you want to ask me a question i will be glad to answer it. it has to do with race relations and how they apply to obama. we are living in an orwellian age. the left-wing says everything opposite of the truth. msnbc, the people that support obama, a lot of your callers claimed that it is racism when

people object to obama or his methods, that is all about race. host: did you read the of ed this morning and "new york post ?" -- did you read the op-ed? >> i did not -- yet but i have the article that claims obama is a victim of racism. host: let me read you this and get your thoughts. he said obama supporters have cultivated the idea that anything inconvenient to the first black president just might be terribly racist. he says now that he is president, if you question his tax policies or health care ambitions, you are hoping he will fail. and with the help of the roundabout reason is tantamount to hoping we cannot transcend race. what are your thoughts about that? caller: i will use the example

of a caller that called in. he identified himself as a black fellow. he made the following comment, he said the president bush appointed clarence thomas, antique it was a slick move because clarence thomas is not black. -- and it was a slick move. he possesses a quality that you see -- he has humility. this is a great man. this black collar said that clarence thomas was not really black. he said 80% of black people vote for the democrats, and therefore clarence thomas was not black because he did not think like them. here is the orwellian part, this man has put his mind into slavery.

he believes you must think a certain way to be black. this is a left-wing perception that you have to think a certain way. clarence thomas thinks for himself. host: let's wrap this up and bring it back to the question. this is regarding present obama and saying he is ok with a single term. with that work for you? caller: i don't think he is genuine in that. i think that was a political statement. i happen to like the man. i think he has a wonderful family, but i don't like his politics. host: we will move on. this analysis this morning under the headline, "the passaic professor." obama tries to convince the

public of the need to enact health care reform in the presidential approval ratings are on the wane. we will look at more of that in a few seconds, but back to the phones. ohio on our independent line. caller: my name is jenny. i feel like that statement is how he is defining success instead of a reelection it is to meet his goals. yes, that was what we elected him for. we are laying off people in health-care fields now, too. we will need this training skills. for him to said i want to get these programs approved because

you voted me in to do this job instead of trying to get reelected. i have to applaud him for that. host: thanks for the call. we have a message from twittered. he writes i don't think kilmeade his goals, but four here is is a reasonable estimate of his term in office. isabel on the republican line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to say i think president obama is a very ambitious man but not filled with blind ambition. he is very thoughtful, and i also believe what he does is for the people. i know sometimes he may come across as always saying the right thing at the right time,

but i believe he is trying to do the best for the working class people. i think the status quo is going to be hurt because they don't want to see him succeed because they will not succeed. so i think he is genuine in his efforts and i hope he succeeds. host: do you think making a statement like the one he made it strengthens his position in trying to get his agenda through or weakens his position and gives the opposition a chance to target him and maybe for some out of office? caller: know, i think -- no, i think it is a truthful statement for him to make. i think it restates how much he believes in what he is trying to

do. i think his efforts to try to be bipartisan -- i know he cannot make everyone happy but i know all of the town hall meetings and seeing how everyone is affected but the retreatby the health care reform -- by the health care reform. host: our next call comes from inland said. caller: i was going to give you my take. -- my next call comes from atlanta. i think there should be taken for what it is. it is a political calculation and they're trying to get something out in the media that reduces the emphasis on obama as the person and makes it about policy. it is nothing more than just trying to take obama out of the

equation, and because they know his poll numbers are dropping. the logic is that if obama were to get through congress and claim success on healthcare reform, energy reform, everybody knows if he were to claim success on that he would be well-position for a second term. in the analysis piece in one newspaper -- host: one poll showed only 49% trust mr. obama to always do the right thing. others show a narrow majority now opposing health-care reform, even among the millions of liberals who helped volunteer for his election efforts. what are some of your thoughts? caller: what happened is the obama administration reached --

realized they overreached on healthcare reform. they see the protests at the town hall meetings and tried to blame that on cable news coverage covering the same people who are the most vocal, but they know they have tried to rush this through before the august break, and that did not work. what they see is that they are scrambling on this healthcare issue. the poll numbers are dropping because it is too much too soon. host: next up is tony on the independent line. caller: good morning. i just wanted to say i agree with everyone else. i voted for him. i think president obama being

the first black president, he has a lot of people -- he is trying his best but doing too much at once. first with the stimulus plan and now with the health care plan. he has a lot of eyes on him. i know he is trying to do what he promised, but he needs to slow down a little bit in the focus on the most important thing, which is the economy. just like any other job, if you scatter your time out with different things you make yourself look bad. if he slows down and does the most important thing, he might have a better chance of a second term. it is still up in the air and i hope people stop looking at him as the first black president and

just look at him as the president. never know, but the thing with the cars, too, cash for clunkers. i think that was a big waste of money. the stimulus plan is a big problem, because out of all that money we have had one large project for vermont. the project was a bridge project and the company was out in maine, so i don't understand -- and helped out one small company andy i have not seen anything else from the stimulus plan help us. host: we will leave it there. william rights, he is asking republicans that if they help him pass these bills he will not serve another term. that comes to us on twitter.

alabama swine flu testing to stop. the ives are that anyone in alabama with the flu actually has the swine flu. -- the odds are that anyone in alabama. the department of public health said friday. the state health officer said individuals with the flu are likely to have the novel swine flu strain. back to the phones. carrol on our democratic one. caller: good morning. back to the issue regarding racism. let me say that i am an obama supporter and i am happy he was elected, but because he is the

first african-american president come -- they have tried to thwart everything he has tried to do. let me just say this. i have been around a long time now. i have seen a lot of town hall meetings and presidential elections, but i have never seen any town hall meeting where people were allowed to carry guns where the president was. that is probably the most racist thing. why is anyone allowed to do that? having guns strapped on you even though they are not that close

to the present, but it is one of those actions that has been hateful. i pray that he is able to serve out his term and get some of his bills passed, but hopefully he will live to run another term. thank you for taking my host: call -- thank you for taking my call. host: voices of anxiety on the far right side of page 15. the president may be syncline but this same cannot be said of the general public -- the president may be sanguine. the american people are worried sick over the economy. the many millions to are unemployed or those working but

barely able to pay their bills. this is the reality that underlies the anxiety over the president's effort to achieve health care reform. forget the certifiable store scrawling hit their moustaches -- who are scrawling hitler mustaches on pictures of the president. washington, william on our republican line. callerwoody think about the pret saying he would be fine serving one term? caller: i think it is refreshing. i did not vote for him but most people elected star running for reelection from day one. for the president to say that if

i accomplish what i want to, i will just be one term, that is refreshing. i am a disabled veteran from the army. i think it is appalling for someone to say just because i did not vote for obama -- i do not want to see my president, even though i did not vote for him, i don't want to see him assassinated. he is a human being. i don't care who -- i did not vote for the man but he is my president. if i agree with him, i agree with him. if i disagree with him, i am respectful. thank you. host: if the president were to achieve his goals regarding health care in the other items on his agenda, would you be more inclined to vote for him?

caller: i think not because i think so many people in the democratic party and republican party are pushing this country beyond socialism to al right communism. i live in a communist country for 18 months and i want my government to do three simple words to get this country back in order, obey the constitution. if he starts running this country as the founders intended i would vote for him. host: the lead story is arkansas' sees a slight uptick in jobless rate. it is the highest since 1992 as the work force shrinks. the unemployment rate changed little in july, the u.s. bureau of labor statistics said.

the national unemployment rate was 9.4% in july. the jobless rate was the 15th lowest in the country but the highest they have seen in 17 years. clinton, pennsylvania on the independent line. caller: good morning. i think his statement is indicative of what i believe they are no is coming in that maybe he will not be reelected to a second term because he will fail because of his policies are so liberal it is pathetic. you cannot spend your way out of a recession. you will see it fail as it is doing, and i would like to get onto someone else. let's put you on the operating table and you need an operation.

the surgeon says we will put you under but we will open you up anyway. and i will go to his statement that i don't have all the facts and i don't know what on -- what went on in massachusetts, but the police officer acted stupidly. when you make statements like that -- would of we're in an international situation and says i don't have all the facts yet but this is what we will do? i think he made a huge mistake in that he took the position of -- i think he'd stuck took advantage of the situation. he pushed -- i think he took

advantage of the situation. he should have been well under control. host: thanks for your call. we have this from ".. " -- we have this report from " newsweek." cia will release details about treatment of suspected terrorists. a long suppressed report by the cia will be released next week reveals that interrogators staged mock executions as part of their post 9/11 program to detain terrorist suspects. according to two sources, the report describes how one detainee, the suspected u.s. s

cole bomber was threatens with a gun and power drill. -- the suspected uss cole bomber. they brandished these weapons to convince him that he would be shot. you can read more of this on their website. next up is tennessee on our line for democrats. go ahead. caller: this is what i want to say. if obama does not run for reelection, i will vote for him again. if he comes up again i will vote for him again because he is trying his best. it is a shame he is practically out there by himself. they are out on their own

because we have a republican who is not even voting and [unintelligible] just laughing and playing like this is a game. america is in trouble. i appreciate the white man that said he did not want obama hurtt or anything, because that is the right thing to do. -- who said he did not want obama hurt. host: we will leave it there. thanks for your call. thanks to everyone who called in in our last segment. we will talk with ron geffner in a few minutes. he is a former sec chairman and he will talk about the ubs and swiss bank account situation. first we want to tell you more

about newsmakers. scott armstrong, the leader of a group health cooperative, that should be included in the new health plan. that will be discussed. here he is describing the misconceptions about cooperatives. >> a lot of people have had this perception of cooperatives being this folksy organization that is built around old notions of what age and i'll's used to be that created restrictions to access. -- the old notions of what hmo's used to be. you will see that it is really quite different from those old perceptions. you may know that group health

was named bud -- was named by consumer reports as the number 1 hmo in the country. it is endorsed by starbucks and bowling -- starbucks and boeing. they report on the quality of clinical care. group health care providers on 15 different measures were rated number one on 11 of those measures. there is all sorts of evidence that this is not your grandmother's hmo. host: you can see the entire interview with scott armstrong tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. and 6:00

p.m. on c-span. joining us now from new york is ron geffner, former sec attorney, to talk to us about the situation with ubs and u.s. bank accounts. bring us up-to-date about the investigation that led to this situation. guest: last year one of their bankers was indicted for helping smuggle diamonds. it was for a wealthy billionaire. that led to investigations as he cooperated with u.s. authorities. he was just sentenced to three years in jail. he had some leniency and his lawyers wanted him to just get probation, to a settlement that

was announced where they will release information regarding 4000 account holders. host: i just want to make sure that the banker we were talking about was bradley burketfelt? guest: correct. the irs asked for the information regarding 52,000 account holders as going to receive the names of 4450. it is expected the transformation was going to occur in the next year. the swiss government will determine compliance and they will turn it over to the irs. host: for the law this time -- for the longest time people always talk about hiding money

in swiss bank accounts. why has this changed and why is the u.s. government getting this corporation from the swiss banks in revealing who the owners are? guest: you are right, but usually think of chocolate, find watches and banking laws in switzerland. 1934 is when they were adopted. my expectation was that they went back to the 1800's. the facts support the irs. they have an informant to disclose information about fraud that was going on between him and other people. the government got really aggressive where they were planning to -- ubs declared u.s. a safe zone and issued a non- travel to the u.s..

they have also come across other information related to other people in the u.s.. the backdrop to this is over one-third of their global employees are located in the u.s. you have the u.s. putting pressure on a swiss-owned company and the bank agreed to pay a fine of $780 million. with the threat of recognition of damage as well to this company. the swiss government entered into some settlement negotiations so that they could continue operating. host: we're talking with a former sec attorney regarding u bs. if you want to get involved, at the numbers are on the screen.

you can e-mail us or send us a tweet. if i am a u.s. account holder and i want to get right with the irs before they come down to seize my assets, how do i go about doing that? guest: there is an amnesty program that runs until september 23 where penalties will be reduced. the terms of the settlement have not been fully announced. there will be announced after the amnesty program terminates. they have not disclosed what the basis is for the names being turned over. they are not identifying what the information is that what the

targets the name to be given over. -- that would target names to be given over. if i don't go in over the amnesty program i don't know if i am one of those names being turned over. who will go after me if i had a couple hundred thousand dollars? it is not clear first you should consult your tax lawyers. one of the things you said that is key is that there is a risk of imprisonment. that is the bigger risk than the penalties. the other aspect that makes this interesting is there not only going after account holders, the irs is looking to prosecute the people who have assisted account holders.

a service provider may also be prosecuted depending on their involvement with your hiding assets. does it end at ubs? that is not where it is clear. is this a win for the u.s. government or the swiss government? you are going to come up with a different answer. the u.s. did not necessarily have a big win in the sense that they said give me the same -- give me the name of every u.s. account holder, they have to provide some specificity. host: if i am not involved in fraudulent activity i can still keep a secret swiss account. guest: nothing from this prevents you from keeping an

account. whether you are discussing the fact that you have an account is another story. you are driving down the road and the speed limit is 45 miles per hour and you are driving 44 miles per hour with a police officer behind you. you could probably be nervous regardless. it is the fear that you might be violating a law you do not know about. that is one of the concerns with any account holder, making sure they are complying with the laws, because they are relying on other people as well. the question is will there be other regimes the irs goes after. it will take this pattern and

apply it to other swiss banks. this has a broader reaching concept than just ubs and switzerland. host: our first call comes from florida. jeff on our republican . caller: who protects the stockholder? on thursday i went to sell stock and part of if it was sold but the stock ended up closing higher than what my asking price was four. i contacted the sec and i never got an answer for it. host: was this stock in ubs? caller: know, this was through ameritrade.

guest: the sec has had a problem with interfacing with the public. how you create this -- the sec is working on that and with regard to whistle blowers. the short answer is you can contact the sec. they are not going to disclose information because they have to go through factual determination to determine if there was fraud. based on the fact pattern that you presented to us, it is not a large sum of money and not indicative of a problem within that the cure it. one of the issues is they are understaffed.

the money they make from finding people goes back to the u.s. treasury, it does not go back to the sec. the problem is they are completely overwhelmed with their obligations to police the markets. your best bet is probably going to a local securities lawyer and asking them for assistance and contacting a brokerage firm. i don't have enough information to determine whether a law was violated. i hope that gives you some insight. host: we're talking about a ubs. our next call from florida. caller: good morning. i just want to point out -- this

whole deal was a phil gramm blueprint. this was designed to rip off the american taxpayer by taking the old track rich and hiding their money so they don't have to pay taxes. i call this fraud. you ought to hook up a rico statute and take these guys from manhattan -- how many people were on that list? guest: i am sorry i am smiling but you are making a lot of sweeping statements. caller: you have to make his people as pour as bernie madoff. you have to take their penthouses. -- make these people as poor as bernie madoff.

these guys were ripping off millions. host: go ahead. guest: you are raising the issue of how equitable are the penalties for people who have found to be violating laws. you also mentioned someone who is now working at ubs. there is an article regarding his involvement in 2001 and ties to the banking laws. there is a jumble thought process. i am sure everything he is doing has been looked at, so there is any smoking gun. with regard to presenting were violators are located, they are all over the world. they are not just in new york and dallas. they could be in florida. many people are located

internationally. the biggest thing is a potential criminal prosecution going to jail. i don't care how much money someone gives me, i don't ever want to see a day in jail, whether it be a week or longer. it would be horrible to be away from my family and an embarrassment. with regard to how these claims are prosecuted, time will tell. the government is being more aggressive now. whether these people equate to bernie madoff , i think you are off. his actions are horrible but they are not comparable to someone not paying taxes. they are engaging in some form of fraud but they are not purposely stealing money from people. host: in the long run the last

caller referred to these folks as the old trevor rich, a let's say i ride the bus to work and -- these folks as the ultra rich. how does this affect me? guest: you have a 401k plant and other assets invested in larger institutions which may be prosecuted by the government. if bbs is being targeted one would think that credit suisse -- if ubs is targetted one would think that credit suisse is next on the chopping block. the question is those officers, and what efforts are they taken to comply with the laws? won't you be negatively

impacted stemming from losses if you are a stockholder? they have actually been reporting losses, and this is stemming from high net worth persons pulling their business from ubs because of what is going on. host: is there evidence that people running my 401k may have taken some of that money in ubs? guest: they have -- they may have bought -- that information being disclosed may or may not be misleading. i am not suggesting they had done anything that may be misleading but if we determine how does this affect the average person, we are all in it together. we are all in a together. we are all impacted, the same way the caller -- if there are

billions of dollars for which taxes are not being paid, that money would decrease the deficit within the government. it goes back into the system. those people are not paying lower taxes either. many of these people are paying upwards of 50% or more. the belief is with democrats in business that taxes are only going to go up. host: you're talking with a former sec attorney about ubs situation and you have any account holders. our next call comes from texas. caller: i had not touched the surface on this issue but i wanted to ask a general

question. in this type of situation that involve international law, what role does the imf and world bank play? could there regulation go towards preventing further abuses and using swiss bank accounts to go round tax situations? guest: i am not intimately familiar with the specificities of their laws within the foreign governments. i don't expect they will have anything in the short run. what you have here is factual information to support people within ubs were engaged in -- were engaged in some form of fraud. those people were squeezed and

provided more information regarding their operations and a set of facts where the u.s. government had an opportunity to lean heavily upon ubs. what i would think is this is a sign the irs will start doing that with other foreign companies that conduct business in the u.s. that operate under some secrecy laws in their jurisdiction. switzerland was probably the most formidable of those jurisdictions, but the other concern is there is one article suggesting france and germany may also seek to follow the u.s.'s actions. the secrecy laws started getting attacked by the european union's. earlier. host: if switzerland can, they

write more needs to be done. congress should pass this legislation that was wrapped up in the 2010 budget proposal. it would entitle the irs to demand foreign banks disclose affirmation about american account holders and withhold appropriate taxes. if they did not, the irs would be entitled to withhold income taxes. your thoughts about that. guest: that seems to be equitable in the sense that one of the wonderful things about our country is the belief that it is an equal playing field for all. no one is above the law, so its scenes to make sense to you would want the irs to have access to all global information to make sure we are complying with the law.

the other question is if suddenly a lot of companies are hiding assets, they may start financing support for tax reform. maybe they have not fought it because they had this concept of keeping assets offshore. the dynamic may change in the long run. in the short run i don't see anything changing in -- people would rather come in during these times of leniency rather than face imprisonment. host: and pressure should be brought on certain countries like panama if switzerland can

get out of this tax haven business, anyone can. are we looking at the potential for a revision of how international banking is done based on this case? guest: definitely. the stories you hear when you are involved in the banking business is many other countries will suggest we have modeled ourselves after the swiss bank secrecy laws. if switzerland is open to attack, other jurisdictions are open now -- are open to greater attacks. one of the most pivotal components is switzerland has a lot of companies conducting business within the u.s.. how many peano -- how many panama banks have branches located in the u.s. banks it is

not just been subjected to pressure by the u.s., we are becoming a global marketplace. it has much broader implications than just this one scenario. host: our next call comes from california. caller: good morning. i have a question regarding -- a reference was made to it about the number of corporations we can expect to see being wrapped up in this investigation. the percentage of corporations -- it will be wrapped up in this overall investigation. guest: the irs has not disclosed any numbers.

i read an article about someone providing tax guidance. there are about 500 people per week that are contacting the irs that have come clean compared to a number of 400 last year. the irs is not divulging numbers. , and not a tax specialist. i deal with partners that may be aware of some information that gets batted around. i think it is all anecdotal. host: 4 last call comes from taxes on the independent line. -- our last call comes from texas. caller: 40 tarp program -- for the tarp program, didn't they

shovel money out to ubs? i thought i heard that mentioned. if that is so, they are shoveling money to people hiding money from the irs. host: thanks for your call. kinney make sense of that? guest: that is a challenge -- can you make sense of that? with regard to helping to finance the viability, i am not sure of the connection between them. i am not familiar enough with the factual circumstances to respond to that, but it goes back to the premise that there seems to be a lot of anger with account holders hiding assets. the money is going back to these people in the form of interest. i would imagine the account

holders maintain accounts are benefiting the banks. i don't think it is a conspiracy where the u.s. government is on the hook to pay indirect means for this account holders. host: thank you very much for being on the show this morning. guest: thanks for having me. host: in a few minutes we will be talking with ronald kessler. he is the author of a new book. this is part of our ongoing book series on the "washington journal." we want to tell you more about this week's edition of " newsmaker is." scott armstrong is the guest. he describes cooperatives and the misconceptions about them in

this interview. >> the lot of people have had this perception of cooperatives as being this folksy and sophisticated organization that is built around old notions old notionsyhm -- old notions of hmo's used to be that compromise on the quality of the investments they made. . .

there is all sorts of evidence that demonstrates that this is not your grandmother's hmo. this is a model that is working in this market, that offers insight into how reform discussions can be upheld. >> jimmy divine is interviewed by the founder of the national organization for the reform of marijuana laws. >> frank mankiewicz. his time as campaign manager

for george mcgovern, and the time where walter cronkite was considered for the role of vice president. >> now, we return to "washington journal." host: how long did it take you to get the confidence of these agents? guest: i have been gathering steam on this for quite some time. i had done previous books on the fbi and terror, so i had that track record and credibility. i was first introduced to a service agent some time ago by an fbi agent. i started gathering steam on that, and so it goes. recently, several agents started telling me about a corner-cutting that has been

going on since homeland security, so that got me into the current service. host: in one section, you write about the agents pledging to take a bullet for the president. yet the secret service's own prices magnified dangers to an agent. tell us what you mean by this? guest: the agents are dedicated and brave and it will take a bullet for the president. but since, and security take us over -- since homeland security took over, there has been a question of the agents, where they will not do magnetometer or metal detection screening at an event or shut it down early.

when joe biden through the first pitch in april, the secret service did know magnetometer screening whatsoever, over the objections of the baltimore field offices of the secret service and the detail itself. it is like letting passengers in an airplane without putting them through metal detectors. it is so basic. at other times, they will shut down screening when pressured. terrorists or a lone gunman can bring in firearms or grenades and assassinate the president or the vice president. when i tell former agents about this, they can not believe it.

host: how high up the food chain, people still serving, do these decisions go? who is the ultimate person could said, you know what, the president will toss a baseball at camden yards but we will not have magnetometers because we cannot be bothered. guest: one of my sources started talking about how important screening is,. this has been done since the shooting of reagan, because reagan was shot due to the lack of magnetometer screenings.

when we let people up to higher levels, that is okay, all you have to do is go to the higher level of the stadium, toss some grenades, shoot the president before any agents can do anything about it. so it makes no sense, and it does go up to level of director. market denied any corner cutting. what the secret service has been doing now is basically stonewalling, saying, well, in the case of the biden incident, it is true, because there was no announcement that he would be there. all you have to do is a google's search and you will see the president announcing one day before that biden would be at that event.

host: could the vice-president have put the time off on that? guest: he was not wearing a bulletproof vest, which he should have done. secondly, his attitude is very anti-security. he does not want the usual motorcade of eight secret service vehicles. instead, he just has two. and he revealed to journalists at the gridiron dinner that there was a broker for emergencies -- bunker for emergencies under the vice- presidential residence. the secret service center at

emails after that. host: we are talking to ronald kassler. mike, kitty hawk, north carolina. republican line. go ahead. guest: go ahead. caller: if you are a secret service agent, and you observe an indiscretion, what level does that have to reach to be reported? guest: just to be clear, i am an officer, not an agent. secret service agents are obligated to make an arrest if they see something illegal. if they protect the is doing drugs, they absolutely have to

take action. when it comes to marginal issues, like presidents having affairs, which leaves them open to blackmail, they are not supposed to talk about that. they are sworn to secrecy. the understanding is that they do see everything under wraps, behind the scenes, with presidents and vice presidents. host: california, -- virginia. democrats line. go ahead. caller: good morning, mr. kassler. he said you were not an agent, but i was wondering about dallas

in 1963, and what happened there, and what steps have been taken so it doesn't happen again. guest: that was a turning point in the history of the service in terms of stepping up intelligence work. but in that case, you saw tension between presidents who do not want secret service around, who think that it looks bad to have somebody guarding them, versus the secret service, who would really like to put the president in the basement to protect him. jfk did not want agents to ride on their rear running board of the limousine in dallas. if they had been there, he definitely would have survived, because the first bullet was not fatal. at that point, agents would have shields him and he never would

have received the fatal bullet. that is an example of recklessness. host: wasn't there a discussion over whether to have a bubble on the car? guest: yes. again, the staff did not want it. if there had been a bubble, it could have deflected the ball -- bullet. host: bob from florida. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to ask this individual -- i got very interested in dallas after the warren commission, because there are a lot of things the warren

commission did not look into. the first question they looked into was, where was all -- oswald, what were his plans. guest: this will shock you, but if you look at the warren commission and read it, you will see it is a credible, detailed account of what happened. i believe that oswald was the only shooter and he was not involved in a conspiracy. if there was a conspiracy, it would have come out by now. that is removed from this book. host: in writing this book, what struck you the most are for mark guest:

guest: the contrasts. barack obama is very considerate, and so is michelle. they have had agents to dinner several times. ronald reagan was the same way, bush was the same way. in contrast, jimmy carter did not even want to the secret service to say hello to him in the morning. it was too much bother for him to say hello back to another human being. he would pretend to carry his own luggage, but it was empty, or other times he would carry it just in front of the cameras or his aides, and he would go into the oval office and tell the press office he was working hard for the american people at 5:00 a.m., but then he would not off to sleep on the sofa. just an example. and lyndon johnson, same thing. he was totally out of control,

having affairs, going to air force one and stripping naked in front of his secretary and daughters, and he would swear at the people who had just been applauding him, he would actually urinate in front of female reporters. one agent said if he was not president, he would be in a mental hospital. host: you wrote about spiro agnew. guest: he was having several affairs. one was with one of his aides, and he always arranged to have an adjoining room for her at hotels. also with another woman he would see at a particular hotel in washington, agents were taken care to the fourth floor room

and let him stay there for an hour or two. another example of hypocrisy. besides making for entertaining reading, these things are significant, because when we elect politicians, we need to know about their character, not just with a smile on tv. what kind of people are there. this gives you a window on what the character of president has been, and it is educational in that respect. host: bellevue, washington. go ahead. caller: george bush was in redmond, and a buddy and i sat there all day.

the police produced a good security, but they will tell you, in the starbucks, somebody left their credentials. can you believe that? secret service left their badge and gun right there in the bathroom. guest: things do happen. i do not think that is endemic. agents had a brave, dedicated -- the problem is that the secret service is cutting corners. we went through all of these large ships at young ages and now have to do the same thing. today we have private injury --

industry and salaries. they've cut the size of certain teams. they are not keeping up to date with firearms. they use the mp five submachine gun. the m-four is much more powerful and used by the fbi, but secret service does not want to spend the money. also, on a typical training and firearms, the secret service is not allowed the time for agents to do that and they are covered up by asking agents to fill up their own forms. another cover-up is that when members of congress visit the training facility in beltsville, md. -- actually, it

is laurel -- they are presented situations where threats arise and agents pressed them, but in fact, the agents know what is going to happen. there's a lot of the seat going on, and that is not something that should be a law enforcement agency. host: tiffany, go ahead. caller: i am african-american, and we have been discussing this lately. what is with people showing up at town hall meetings with guns? they checked out everything for the president, and we have often said that if this were a white president, they would never let these people anywhere near the

premises. they would have to be 20 miles away. these people are right outside with guns, and it makes no sense of they are allowed to do this. this makes the job harder, i would think. the secret service has to keep their eye on these people. one man said, why would i carry a gun if it was not loaded? how stupid would that be? but whether they are or not, it is the idea of that. how are they allowed to do this now with this president, the first black president, knowing how much people dislike the idea in this country, some of these very sick and mentally disturbed individuals, as you said before.

how are they allowed to pack guns like this, knowing our history in the country? this is beyond. i still cannot get over what i see on tv. host: surratts against obama are up 400% compared to bush. so that is another reason we should not be cutting corners. there are race-based in many cases. -- threats against obama are up 400% compared to bush. the secret service recognizes that people have certain rights, whether it is carrying a gun or to say i hate the president or i do not like the president, and

they are very cautious about going over the line and infringing on people's rights. in this case, they would keep people under sentence surveillance. if they made a false move, they would be arrested. so i think people are foolish, personally, but i do not think it is a real threat. host: after 9/11, there was a double when the. on a reflexive effort to show the government was improving security, bush and congress created the department of homeland security. the secret service was transferred from the treasury to the new agency. they became the stepchild, competing for funds with other agencies which were often dysfunctional.

demands on the secret service grew exponentially. guest: that is part of why they are cutting corners. they have budget constraints, they are not a star anymore. but if you have an assassination, you nullify democracy. that is how important a job it is. and the budget is only 1.4 million a dollars a year, half the price of a stealth bomber, or compared to a stimulus package of $800 billion. and they are protecting democracy. there is an attitude that they make do with less, they can do anything, they are invincible. it is a culture of the nile and complacency. and when you look at this, you

wonder, how can they allow this to happen? why doesn't the director of the secret service tel obama, you are at risk, we have to take action. the answer is, just like the madoff scandal, when tips went to the sec with specific informations about funds not being there, they did not check it out. it is hard to understand. host: when you say complacency, is it that they just do not care about the protection of the presidency? earlier, you said they are trying to make do with less, exerting much she's moke, saying, "we are protecting the president, and we will do with less, that is who we are." a macho attitude, verses that they just do not care. guest: yes. they certainly do care, but they have this attitude that is just

wrong. host: myrtle beach, south carolina. go ahead. caller: i have a couple questions. i work for all law enforcement agency in myrtle beach and i remember a time when george w. was at a debate, and the secret service worked very professionally with the sheriff's department and security. when obama came to myrtle beach with a debate with hillary, the same thing. very professional. guest: as i said, they are very

dedicated and brave. they absolutely do work well. they do a good job of assessing threats, categorizing them into three categories. class 3 is a serious threat. they will interview the person behind the threat every three months and keep them under surveillance during that time. so they do a very good job of advanced work, as you are saying. one example that is interesting is when george h. w. bush was going to get a speech in oklahoma, campaigning for reelection, and local law- enforcement told the advance team from a secret service that

a psychic actually led them to the bodies of murder victims, and she had a vision of assassination. the agents were embarrassed to admit they would take it seriously, but they did. it turned out that the woman was able to foretell all of these details about the visit. host: the agents involved was normal jarvis? tell us about him. guest: norm jarvis was on the advance team. they interviewed this woman, and he said she knew built limousines were in town, at the air force base, which most people would not know, and she was able to take jervis to the hangar where the limousines were. there were five hangars, and she pointed out the correct one. she said that george bush would be wearing a sport shirt coming out of air force one.

jarvis was incredulous, because bush always wore a shirt, but that was exactly what you were coming out of -- bush always wore a suit, but he was wearing a shirt coming out of air force one that day. sure enough, bush invited some friends in. at that point, jarvis and other agents said, we cannot let this go on. they changed the motorcade so it did not go under the underpass where this woman said a sniper would be. nothing ever happened, of course, and george bush was never told about it. the first mention is in this book. host: waldorf, maryland. our line for democrats. caller: if george bush was in a building somewhere with guns,

they would be taken to jail. a few months ago, our president was in trinidad, and the president from venezuela walked halfway across that room. you think that the secret service did not think this man would have harmed the president? they did not raise an eyebrow or anything? guest: one of the people carrying guns was black, believe it or not. they cannot take protective measures in every case. when the president is meeting

with the president of another country, there has to be a certain level of trust at some point. another example was when the iraqi through his shoes at president bush in iraq. they had done eight magnetometer screen, so there were no weapons, but there is nothing that could have been done about that, essentially. host: how is it that someone could throw to shoes at the president's head? when reagan was shot, the secret service was instantaneous get team -- getting him into the car and jumping on john hinckley. but in the situation with george w. bush, the reporter or whoever had a chance to take off his shoe, throw it, take off his other shoe, and throw it, all before anything happened.

guest: if you picture how quickly would have to react, at a party at the white house, anybody could take off their shoes just like that. i try to be fair, and i think it is not fair to say that the secret service should have been able to intercept these shoes. host: the book is "the presidents' secret service." ronald kassler is our guest for the next 30 minutes.

caller: when the police cornered him, he ran to a theater. i will wait for your answer. thank you. guest: that confrontation was

between an fbi agent and a secret service agent, and who knows who was right or wrong? the interaction between the president and secret service was good, and i do not think that would have happened today. the secret service today does advanced work on the motorcade, which they did not do in those days. in the case of the inauguration, they sealed manhole covers soap there was no possibility that explosives could be secretive that there. they went around in a u-haul to make sure that the buildings would not have open windows. they took away mailboxes and trash can on the streets, that sort of thing.

and there also have counter- sniper teams, for example, of which would be looking out for someone who might have had a rifle pointing out of the window. they are much more advanced now , doing a better job. there's been a huge improvement since dallas. host: with the president and first lady wearing bulletproof vests down the parade route? guest: i think that they were. this business of coming out of the limousines started with jimmy carter. he started spontaneously walking during the inauguration. i personally think it is not a good idea, but now these episodes are scripted with the secret service. they decide where the president should step out, find a safe area, and they have separate

teams ready. so at least precautions are being taken today. host: ronald kassler is authore of 18 nonfiction books. tarrytown, louisiana. independent line. good morning. caller: the question arises, to what extent, where is the line drawn when the agents view blatant criminal activity, like drugs, but i am going specifically to documented evidence. incidents, and if anybody doubts me, write this down, get on the computer, and see that it is true. i am referring specifically to

the franklin cover-up, where a male child prostitution ring went right into the white house. jeff gannon, a male prostitute, was allowed free rein -- guest: i do not know. you are implying -- they have specific duties. if they see a crime in front of them, yes, they to make an arrest. host: you write about the agents

that protected george w. bush's daughters, barbara and jenna. tell me a bit about the difficulty they had protecting these ladies. guest: they were very difficult. jenna would go through red lights to try to lose for detail, and not tell them where she was going so they had to conduct surveillance of her car. one time she was at a halloween party with her now-husband, and he got so drunk that the secret service had to take into the hospital. so these are the troubles that they have with certain protectees. dick cheney's daughter was also very difficult. she would try to get the secret service to take her friends to restaurants, something she should not be doing.

reporting the activity to the president and vice president would have been a good idea. sometimes jenna would call her father and complained that the agents were two close. this time, he would call the secret service to say, "why are you following her?" so clearly there should be better guidelines about what is said. but the president was also in the very people sit with him --

in a very difficult situation. host: in ohio. you are on the line. caller: why is there a negative stigma? guest: not everyone wants to sign up to take a bullet for the president. it is the management. the management of the secret service has abused its trust because if there is assassination, it not only nullifies democracy, it means that agents could be killed, as well. caller: good morning.

why is it that everything the president does, it is always announced? i happened to be in washington the day president reagan was shot, and i was walking by the restaurant where he was having lunch and saw a large crowd there, and i stopped out of curiosity and asked what was going on. i was immediately told, the president is having lunch here, we're waiting for him to come out. in london, you could be watching -- walking down oxford street and all the sudden you have got queen mary waving at you. doesn't this man have our right to go to starbucks for a cup of coffee or to mcdonald's for a hamburger without it being splashed all over the news all the time?

guest: he was having lunch, and they did know that he was there because he was there. they do not preannounced it at the restaurant. for those who are announced, they have to be announced because there are people there. but people need to do magnetometer screening and detection. but the president's do get very antsy about all this protection. one time, ronald reagan got perturbed about the advanced preparations. he went into a card shop and found a card and showed it to another customer and said, "do you think nancy would like this?" and the customer said, sure.

host: bloomfield, michigan. you are on "washington journal." caller: there was recently released new film from dallas of secret service agents being waved off the back of the car. it is clear on the film that they were surprised and had no foreknowledge that kennedy did not what them on the back of the car. guest: kennedy had specifically told agents before the trip that he did not want them on their running board. but going back, as another

example of presidents not liking security, abraham lincoln did not want any security around him whatsoever, even though the civil war was going on. finally, he agreed to have a couple of washington d.c. policeman. on the night of the issuing, -- shooting, there was one police officer, but that officer was for a drink at a tavern. so he had no protection whatsoever. caller: i am shocked at the presence of guns at facilities where the president is at. i love volunteering for things, and i have helped out at some of the events when clinton came to seattle, so i know how extensive

the presence is. i am also contrasting your guns being present during these facilities with the behavior during the bush years when even a t-shirt or a bumper sticker on somebody's car would get them ejected from the facility. can you discuss this? guest: i do not see any difference in protection from the bush years in terms of these unfortunate occurrences. host: talk about the training that goes into being a secret service agent, and power you selected to be on the president's detail? guest: have to have a college degree, they are polygraph, they need a security clearance,

and then the training is done at twa locations in maryland and georgia. it contains everything from violent crime prevention to evasive driving, making a quick u-turn with a car. my wife helps describe things, she has a former reporter. it is very impressive, no question about that. when it comes to being on the president's detailed, the agents who are most impressive are the ones who go on to the president's's detail. the secret service also those investigations into counterfeiting, financial

fraud, and access to atms, for example, and that is the way they started going in. it evolved in a haphazard way, because they were investigating a counterfeit ring in the midwest and it is believed that they were threatening the president, said the secret service assigned two agents. and that is how very slowly the secret service became involved in protection of the president. host: florida, go ahead. caller: you are talking about cost cutting, and i wanted to ask you about the process for the limousines. i think it is a good process. the second question i have is, what would it take to change the

ambiguity of the secret service not being able to do their jobs if they want to, but management not letting secret service works to their potential. guest: heavy, shielded limousines, with their own oxygen supply. it has been a cavelike forever. i do not know if they committed or not. i doubt it. and there's a new one barack obama used during the inauguration. what can be done? this is a classic expos said where an agency is not doing the right thing. the question is, is anything going to be done about it? there will be inquiries on the hill.

you would think barack obama would read this book and say, let's change what is going on here, let's double the budget. but i cannot predict this, and hopefully there will be enough pressure from people who care about protecting the president to change this way. host: how does the secret service, with code names? -- how do they come up with code names? guest: a computer generates random names. but then the protect these may not like an name. george bush was issued the code name "tumbler," and maybe that reminded him of his drinking days. the whole bush family begin with tea.

barbara and jenna work -- work -- were turquoise and twinkling. andy card was issued potomac, and he did not like that, so he chose patriot. host: how far down that food chain is protection offered? guest: after 9/11, it went down further, so you have the deputy assistant secretary of homeland security who may be protected. terry may have protection where they pick the person up and bring him back to his home. and there may be protection of people just when they go overseas. so it can include grandchildren,

someone like michelle obama's mother, because she was in the white house, dick cheney's grandchildren, even though one was a baby. you can see why, because terrorist would like nothing better than to capture one of those people and we would be a bad situation. host: northbridge, massachusetts. go ahead. caller: first of all, even though i did not vote for president obama, i am glad to see that some different culture is in our white house. that really made me happy. the question i have is, ok, a situation has happened. my younger brother in missouri place for a scottish band, and they were invited to kansas city when president bush went to kansas city to play for him and

the parade, and they were promised they would get to meet the president, so they were detained, i guess. my brother was standing there, and he is a big guy and intimidating to look at. he said he happened to look over at a secret service man, and next thing, he was planted against a wall. to do that takes somebody pretty strong. he says all he did was look at the guide and the next thing i know, i am up against the wall. do they have that kind of authority? guest: you have to recognize that an agent has to take action instantaneously. he cannot wait for an investigation or court to determine if the person is really a threat, and agents take this action all the time.

i expect there is more to the story that you were told. maybe he did something suspicious. obviously he was innocent. secret service agents have in their mind a profile of a suspicious character, someone who looks inappropriate and may not be smiling when anyone else is smiling, who is in an overcoat in the summer, who is perspiring. when george h. w. bush would go out and greet people at the fence without telling the secret service. it showed up in the washington post that he was doing this, and agents were perturbed that he was doing this. one guy in the crowd that looked out of place, and it turned that he had a weapon and probably was going to use it.

so the courts have given a lot of latitude. you do not want to wait and see if he is really going to shoot someone. caller: hello, and thank you for taking my call. i do agree with what you say about the management. it is not the agents. i think the management of the country is not doing very well right now, but in my opinion, i wonder if you agree that may be calling security -- maybe homeland security knows that there is no threat, and that is why they cut corners? guest: it is just the opposite. threats against obama are up 400% compared to bush, where he was getting about 3000 or so. it is just the opposite.

it is a very dangerous time. the emotions that you see in these town hall meeting certainly contribute to this atmosphere where people may get ideas about certain presidents. it would be nice to think that there was a reason to cut corners, but there is not. and letting people into an event without screening was announced before and the president is going to speak is risking assassination, just as letting people into an airplane without screening risks a terrorist plot. host: you say that threats against obama are up 40%. at what point to this day, mr. obama, we have this threat. we think it might be critical.

they cannot be in his office every day saying that. guest: the reason they would tell the president is if they have to change their schedule for him or do anything that might infringe on his situation. when the president is out, the secret service has a good there will put over his head -- they have a hood they will put over his head to protect from chemical attacks. that is just one precaution. on his desk and coffee table, they have a presidential seal which is an ornament, and if the president turns it over, that will sound an alarm and bring agents running from underneath the office and other areas with weapons drawn. so those are some of the technological things on the book.

host: what is the significance of the female agents on the staff? guest: they are not on the presidential detail right with him. host: do they try to match females? all females on the first lady's staff, all males on the president's staff? guest: they do not do that. it is mixed. tipper gore did not want females, so there were not females. with george bush, you had a lot of female agents wearing jeans to look like college kids. one former agent became deputy director, with other agents figuring out that their guns

fired just as well as the others. host: gulfport, mississippi. go ahead. caller: good morning. i refer to call today so far regarding the weapons that were at one of the meetings president obama was having an. two women expressed concerns about, how could they have guns so close to the president? i share some of those concerns. i think the bigger point was being missed, that they were exercising their constitutional rights which allows people -- a lot of people are afraid will disappear. a lot of people think that president obama is turning the country's socialist, and i believe that what they were saying is this is my constitutional right, to bear arms, and we are serious about this.

host: what would happen if someone came behind a jet london, grabbed it, and started firing? caller: i have concerns that they were there and so close to the president. but that is not the only issue. there are other issues that either have not been thought about or are pushed onto the carpet, and i think it is that along our country exists, it seems to me the more diluted the thought process is in terms of our constitution, the less, for lack of a better word, though less value we hold it in and the country. guest: it is an interesting debate. i do not think that carrying weapons in a situation like that furthers their cause. we all know there's a right to

bear arms in the country. whether you have to be paraded around -- i do not think the secret service thinks it is a threat. it is just like, again, the first amendment. we have a right to say what we want, but we do not have to agree when someone says something nasty or swears that the president or says some of the nasty things about barack obama or president bush, like president bush knew about 9/11 or was behind 9/11. most of us do not like that. but people have the right to say it. so i look at this in the same way. these people have right to do what they are doing. most of us do not agree with their feeling that they need to

parade around. host: south carolina. go ahead. caller: good morning. i heard that there was even a black man at this event with a gun. as a black man, i find this to be insulting, because i do not think that justifies the lack of security around the president. also, during these times, you're not even going to a football game without being checked out for weapons. why is it so easy to walk in? why doesn't that very same thing