>> this week, on q&a, our guest is frank mankiewicz. currently, he is vice-chairman of the public relations firm, hill and knowlton. >> on saturday, july 25, after walter cronkite died, you wrote a comment in law should post --

in the washington post. >> i said back in 1972 when i had a serious role in senator mcgovern's presidential candidate. we had to pick a vice presidential candidate. mike joyce was walter cronkite. he was the most trusted man in america. he was the anchor for everybody i was voted down -- for everybody. i was voted down unanimously. they said it would look bad if he turns it down. so let's go to a more mainstream politician which we did. >> wanted to take walter cronkite would take the job? >> i knew that he was very much opposed to the vietnam war. six months before that, he had

come back from vietnam and immediately called me and asked to see robert kennedy. the two of them thamet. he said that the senator had to run for president and he went on to say how they could not be one. -- that it could not be one. they would not like us less. kennedy said to him that he would run for president if you would run for the senate in new york. cronkite laughed and said that he could not because he did not live in new york, he lived in connecticut. secondly, he said he was not a democrat, he was registered as an independent.

i knew he had those feelings about the war and he would take it seriously. he certainly couldn't out vote anyone else like to think of. >> that was 1968. >> no, that was 1972. >> where was that meeting held? the meeting with mr. cronkite and mr. kennedy. >> in senator kennedy's office. on capitol hill. what's how had to come to know senator kennedy in the first place? >> i came to know him because he called me up one day when i was an official in the peace corps. i was the regional director for latin america. i called him up when he was going to latin america as his first trip. because he knew i had been there, some friends of his told him i had lived in peru and he wanted to check the schedule at

the state department with me. he visited the american school in the morning and then met with the american for chamber of commerce and then visit the u.s. aid projects in the afternoon. and then dinner at the embassy. i asked why he was going there to do all that and he laughed and said that that is why he wanted to talk to me. i gave him an alternate schedule. we talked when he was on his way to peru, i happened to be in panama. >> had to know him before? >> no. >> that was the first time ever? >> yes. >> it is hard to ask questions to people who were around when this happened. in 1972, you were in senator

mcgovern's office? >> i have been senator kennedy's office for three years. when he was killed, i was a journalist for a while. senator mcgovern then asked me to join him. essentially, senator gary hart and i ran the campaign. >> how did you get into the peace corps? what was your motive? >> i was a lawyer in california. i was active in politics in california. i had one for the legislature when i was a very young man. -- i had run for the legislature when i was a very young man. when he won, i thought that being on a lawyer for some movie people was not how i wanted to spend my life. so i wrote to friends of mine in

washington, saying here i am, use me somehow. i came back here and did some interviews and i talk to an old friend in the defense department. i wound up talking to -- going over to the peace corps because a friend of mine had been a deputy attorney general in california and was now sargent shriver's man for africa in the peace corps. he said that i had to go there. i went over and did some interviews and i was enchanted with the peace corps. it was a terrific idea. it was just getting started. i spoke spanish. the tobben to pick a country. -- they told me to pick a country. i told them i would go to peru. they said that was fine. we worked that out. >> when did you first meet?

>> when i was the press secretary. i talk to him a couple of times about a story. things were fairly relaxed in those days. you could talk to almost anybody. >> of all the people you were around, who were you closest to, personally? >> i would say robert kennedy were george -- or george mcgovern. >> why were you interested in working on the mcgovern campaign? but i had come to know him when i was working for senator kennedy. i knew of his passion about vietnam. he said to me as the campaign began to develop, he was truly against that war. he called me up and wanted to

know if i wanted to join his campaign. >> we have some audio tape. it is lyndon johnson's conversation from the oval office with bobby kennedy, who was attorney general at the time. this was in may of 1964. but the must've been the end of his term as attorney general. >> explain what was going on in 1964. >> there was some talk that he might be the vice-presidential candidate for lyndon johnson when he ran for reelection. he did not have a vice president. in those days, if they presidents exceeded -- if a vice president succeeded on the death of a president, he surserve the rest of the term without a vice- president. it was clear that he and robert kennedy were not friends at all,

politically. johnson made an announcement that nobody serving in his cabinet could be on the ticket with him as vice president. robert kennedy said that he was sorry for taking all the other fellows over the side. he later said he would run for the senate in new york and i think that he left the department of justice in may or june of 1964. >> in 1964, how hot was the vietnam war. >> it was rolling along. we were very closely allied with some dubious leaders of the country. it did not seem popular at all. in 1964, it was a serious war. we did not see any gains of very much. >> this clip is about 3 1/2

minutes. >> bob mcnamara had a talk with me and asked me to come over. i think there is a lot of -- i had the same feeling with president candidate i think there are a lot of people around such as douglas dillon and some others, whether they are involved in making the decisions or not, they frequently have some good ideas in some of these matters. i think that was the advantage of dealing with the problems of the missile crisis and some of the other difficulties over the period of the last three years. i think we should utilize some of those brains and talent to the maximum. having watched over the last

three years, i think that we should make sure that there is a full discussion about some of these things. being frank about it, based on my to meetings at the national security council, i felt there was too much emphasis on the military aspects of it. i would think that that war would never be won militarily. will be one as a political war. the best talent is over at the pentagon were you have bob mcnamara. that has to be applied to doing what needs to be done publicly in that country and whether that is setting up an organization for each one of those counties,

may be dropping a bomb someplace, the people are not interested as you point out. i am not sure that they concentrate on not sufficiently to the i think that a major effort in the political field will be made in the military field. unless political action is taken, in my judgment, i do not think it could be successful. >> i think that that is good thinking. it is not any different from the way i have felt about it. we spent the whole afternoon yesterday, i am sure you saw his column this morning. bob mcnamara and other different ones, i agree with you on the

council. what we have there is very much what you referred to. you do not [unintelligible] people are somewhat hesitant to give their ideas. i have been trying to stimulate and encourage political thinking and tried to add some adventure and some diplomatic debenture and political programs. >> this is about as close as you can't get to to human beings inside and an administration -- inside and administration. what did you hear there? >> well, what i was hearing was

an evolving position of senator kennedy's that i. he had been a strong supporter of president kennedy and president kennedy was a supporter of the war. he was clearly thinking that there were other ways to achieve whatever we wanted in vietnam, and the military tactics were not working and would not do the job. >> from your own experience, when did senator kennedy become very anti-war. >> i would say probably about 1966 or 1967. he was always moving that way. he would have come down with a

no fairly soon after this conversation. president johnson said we needed to do political things and non- military things. his heart was not in that because he never did. but from bob mcnamara is perspective, what was it bobbies relationship with him? we learned that he thought we could not win the war but we thought it anyway. >> kennedy and senator -- secretary mcnamara talk a lot. it may be his position was changing and so was mcnamara's. he stayed with him a long time. as mcnamara said, in a documentary, he clearly regretted staying with the war as long as he did.

i think that kennedy came to agree with that. >> what is your reaction to the president saying that people do not tell him to his face what he should hear. >> i thought that was a remarkable insight. i think every president maybe feels that, but does not do much about it. i know that some people, george reedy, particularly, said that the obama administration is that there is no one in the white house that will tell him that is the dumbest idea he ever heard of. the president's are really in a bubble inside the white house when no one will dare say he is wrong. i think he should appoint a different person.

>johnson was beginning to think like that. " how did you personally relate to senator kennedy? i figured he was about 38 when he was talking to lyndon johnson. lyndon johnson is about 55. there was a big difference. >> robert kennedy and i were about the same age. when i was appointed press secretary, the leading political writer for the "new york times" said that senator kennedy found a plea made his own age. >> did you ever talk back to him or talk to him? >> we were fairly close. >> your in his senate office for 3.5 years? >> three years. >> what changed your mind? >> i was never in favor of the war. what changed my mind was

observing a skirmish that we had in the dominican republic and the government was misleading the public about the war. i thought that if they were doing that in south america, they were probably doing that in southeast asia. i was against the war from 1964. >> i was overseas. i was with the peace corps. i was with them from 1964-1965. >> how did you work in the campaign? what were the circumstances? >> in 1968, he decided he was born to run. the results of the primary election in new hampshire, where

president johnson narrowly defeated senator eugene mccarthy, i think that persuaded kennedy. for the good of the party, it no longer required him to go along. he decided to run in march of 1968. presidential campaigns now begin nine years began the up -- before the election. >> the date that i had is he announced march 16. >> that is right. the day before st. patrick's day when he went up in march in the parade in new york. >> two weeks earlier than that, walter cronkite had made his statement on vietnam on his newscast. that would be a better word 27, 1968. this is only about 20 seconds. >> it seems now, more certain than ever, that the bloody experience of vietnam will end

in stalemate. this summer's standoff will end in real give or take negotiations were terrible escalation. for every means we have to escalate, the enemy can match us and that applies to invasion of the north, the use of nuclear weapons, or the mere commitment of 100, or 200, or 300,000 american troops to the battle. with the checks collation -- with each escalation, the world comes closer to cosmic disaster. >> he goes on to say that we are closer to victory today and it goes on. when did he meet with senator kennedy? was it between that moment and the moment said he announced -- the moment that he announced? >> thank you been to vietnam before. >> when you were sitting there listening to him -- and i'd

think he had been to vietnam before. what i welcomed him as an ally. -- >> i'd welcome him as an ally. -- i welcomed him as an ally. that may have helped him make up his mind. >> what about an acre man for a major network -- and anchor man for a major network. ? >> it did not happen very often if at all. that is one reason that i favored walter cronkite to be the vice-presidential nominee four years later with senator mcgovern. as it turns out, as i went broke in the washington"post," walter cronkite told senator mcgovern that if he had only asked him, he would have accepted.

the ticket in 1972 would have been mcgovern and cronkite and it would of been a different election. >> you wrote in this column, after walter cronkite died, -- why did you wait until he died to write that? >> well, maybe i over extended a sense of what would be the ethical thing to do. if he had not talked about it, i was not quite sure it would be appropriate for me to do so. >> is there more to the story than that? >> i pretty well described it.

they talk about new york politics and they talk about vietnam. -- the talk about your politics and they talked about vietnam. -- they talked about new york politics and they talked about vietnam. if the war cannot be won, why pursue it? we would not lose, but we would not be able to accomplish our objective. >> due to read what wrote about this? bucbucsthere is a lot more to t.

>> i do not know. i have to think about that. he was smart enough to keep his personal opinions out of his reporting. he made it clear that that was not part of his news broadcast. >> when you remember the 1968 advent of lyndon johnson pulling out and the quotes that came

out that we have lost walter cronkite and the rest of america, did he have that much impact? >> i think what president johnson said that -- was that if he lost cronkite, he would lose america. i do not think it had that much effect. the fight over vietnam in america was very widespread. i don't think the opinion of even walter cronkite would have turned it one way or the other. >> this next clip i want to show you, you have seen many times and it has been talked about many times. i guess for a nostalgic regio reasons, it is sure announcement that robert kennedy was dead. where was this and when was it?

>> it was in los angeles. 1968, june 6 was the california primary. he had won. that night, in the hotel, on his way to another press conference, robert kennedy was shot. he spent about 36 hours in the hospital and never recovered from a gunshot wound to the head. he died in june of 1968, just after the california primary. >> where were you that night? i was with them all the way. >> were you next to him when he was shot? >> no, i wasn't. i was about 10 or 15 yards behind. ass we were leaving, i would normally be at his side. i was the only security he had.

we both stay behind to hhelped at the kennedy off the platform. she had to jump to 3 feet down and some of us knew, but not the public, but she was pregnant a couple of months. three or four months, i think. we helped her down and then turned to go catch up with senator kennedy and that is when we heard the shots. in the kitchen of the ambassador hotel. >> in los angeles. >> in los angeles. >> his brother had been killed. what was your sense about security. how top was the security when he was running? >> we had no security at all. we provided our own. we would stand beside him and

try to keep the crowd away. >> in your head, were you worried? today, there is so much security. even lesser members of congress have security. >> he had police protection when he drove around the city, but not in los angeles because the mayor was very much anti- kennedy. he had been a candidate for president but was not taken seriously. >> where was he specifically it and how did sir hansard and find him? >> -- how did sir hansar andhand him? >> we would go to the lobby to this meeting room where the press was waiting.

he was very tired. he did not like the idea of pressing for this enormous, adoring crowd that would look at his clothes -- plucked at his clothes. the majority said we could get to the room by going to the kitchen. senator kennedy said fine, let's do that. i do not know how he got there. i do not suppose anybody stop him or ask him for an i.d. or anything else. >> where was he from? where? >> yes. i think he was from syria. he was a palestinian. he lived in california for quite a way of -- for quite awhile.

>> where is he now? what's he is in san quentin for life. >> let's run this clip from 1968. what senator robert francis kennedy died at 140 -- 1:44 p.m. today, on june 6, 1968. with senator kennedy, at the time of his death were his wife ethel, his sisters mrs. stephen smith, [unintelligible] brother-in-law mr. stephen smith and sister-in-law of mrs. john f. kennedy. he was 42 years old. thank you.

>> what else do you remember about that particular moment? >> i remember that i left out of that list of people, senator edward kennedy. we made the correction shortly thereafter were. i do not remember a lot about my own feelings because it was so much that needed to be done. i've was lucky that i had a lot of duties to take care of a lot of reporters and get them information, make travel alignments, and one man that was working with me, we started making lists of people to be invited to the funeral. there was a lot to be done.

i think that was a bit of a blessing. i did not have to think very much about grief. >> when did it hit you? what'>> a couple of days later. >> is there any way to describe the impact it has had on her life? nowhat's not yet. >> it just so happens that a lot of people are passing on, including eunice shriver and her husband has alzheimer's disease. >i saw a picture of sargent shriver the other day. do you communicate with him? >> he was a wonderful, vibrant, active guy. he was well into his 60s, '70s.

now, he is afflicted with alzheimer's disease. he sees -- i don't know, the picture i saw made him look very old. what's he ran the peace corps. >> yes he did. he started it. what's the to know him? >> very well. -- >> did you know him? >> very well. >>we went through a lot of names and people were unwilling to run. i think it was a turning point in the campaign. he may not have won that election, but he certainly would have come close. we were five or six points behind and we had some good -- we had watergate going for us.

>> you lost by 25 points. >> we lost to the point that senator mcgovern would not have been a candidate for years later. >> walter cronkite died a few weeks ago and today, don hewitt died. >> i saw that. >> did you know him? >> i did know him. he gave me cause for considerable embarrassment in the kennedy campaign. don hewitt called me up early in 1967. ronald reagan had just been elected governor of california. he said to me that cbs has this new thing called satellite. he said we can bring into the same broadcast, people from different parts of the world.

he said that what he wanted to do was have a debate between senator kennedy and ronald reagan, the new governor of california. we would have students from england and japan or india talk to these two guys and ask them questions. i thought it was a perfect setup for senator kennedy. he was an experienced politician. it would be no contest. i persuaded senator kennedy to except and they did and it was carnage. nobody wanted to be more decisive than reagan did that evening. senator kennedy looked at the monitor in the room rather than the interviewer and the result is that the people watching saw him being kind of shifty i'eyed.

he was trying to be very precise about vietnam. whereas one oregon was superb and he gave wonderful, reassuring pro-american answers. for years after that, whenever we would have a discussion on the kennedy staff, i would take a position and he would turn to me and say "you're the fellow that got me in that debate with ronald reagan, archer? are you? " >> [unintelligible] the former aide to ronald reagan

wrote -- >> that is about right. since i was running for the legislature in california. >> how much of this french ship exists today -- a french ship exists today? -- freniendship exists today? >> he was probably involved with somebody on the other side. i respected him. he is one of the rare conservatives that i have ever known who has a good sense of humor. we have a lot of fun together. we can put aside our radiological -- our ideological

views. buc>> it is well-known that he d to wear his mickey mouse tie. there is no other way to ask this question. your 85 years old. >> i am. >> you are up about and i understand you go to work every day. >> i work every day, but i technically retired. i keep the office and the phone and the computer and i am writing a book in doing little work here and there. >> what are you writing a book about? but i suppose it is a memoir. >> -- i suppose it is a memoir. >> wanted to wait this long? >> it is time. >> you are 85.

don hewitt is 88. walter cronkite is 92. eunice shriver was 88. how do you do it at this stage? how do you look at life at this stage? >> pretty much the way that i did 20 years ago or 30. there are things to be done. i have a wonderful wife. we have a lot to talk about. we have a lot to remember. i have a lot of good friends. i have written four books and one of the fellows of broke a book with is working on a memoir. >> what bove did you write together before? >> we wrote a good book about television called "remote- control." it was about how television was very influencing our lives.

not just news, but entertainment television. >> is it still? >> i think so. bucs in what way? >> -- in what way? it has create>> it has created a way that we look at our public life. we do used -- we used to watch the evening news and that was it. now things are going on every 10 minutes. they have to be dealt with, answered, talked about, discussed. truth seems to be drifting further and further out of the

discussion people are getting angrier -- out of the discussion. people are getting angrier. >> are you getting angrier? >> i do not what the cable stuck during the day. >> what are your habits every day? >> i wake up to a wonderful radio program, national public radio for which i was president for awhile. seven years to be exact. i don't really taking in much entertainment. i watched the screen for e-mail and things like that. i heard about don hewlett's -- don hewitt's death by e-mail. >> did you get involved in the ted kennedy campaign at all? >> only in covering it. >> did you encourage him to run?

>> i probably didn't, but only peripherally. i did not have a role in his campaign. a lot of people probably gave him advice and he took it or not. >> why did they rose to in 2004? >> -- why did they roast you in 2004? >> it was part of a fund to set up a scholarship. somebody thought it would be a good idea to get people to come together and pay a few hundred dollars and put it in the scholarship fund. it has been quite successful. there has been a scholar every year since. >> here is ted kennedy talking about you. >> i o frank a lot. i never would have run for the white house in 1980 if frank had not been president of npr in the 1970's.

he kept needling me year after year. he loved to say that he got to be president before i did. how could i possibly go wrong. it was all will be wise advice -- with all the wise advice, he kept saying, "you can do it, ted, you can't mess." -- miss." [laughter] >> what is he like? >> he is a likable and engaging man di. he is the best center of the 19th century -- of the 20th-

century. he has a devotion to really good causes. >> have you talked to him during this time of his brain cancer? >> not much. >> this seems to be a time a lot of people passing on. but a lot of big-name figures of the '60s and '70s. >> what is the legacy of all that era? >> it is hard to say. part of the legacy is good fellowship for compatibility. we all got along a lot better.

maybe things move a little more easily as a result. -- moved a little more easily as a result. we would talk frequently about all kinds of things, college basketball, and foreign policy and what was interesting and amusing rather than what was right and what was wrong. that is a fair thing that one with a lot of people. >> herman mankiewicz did what for a living? >> he was a screenwriter. i would not have known that just by watching. i would have thought he was a political columnist. he was a screenwriter for 30 years. >> his most famous movie?

>> citizen kane. some may say it was the best movie ever made. it was the story of a newspaper publisher who was a radical as a young man and became a crusty conservative in his old age. it was the story of his relationship to other people, friends, and girlfriend. >> where did he get the idea? >> people thought it was the parallel to the life of william randolph hearst. the new hearst -- p dewhur -- he knew hearst. he became one of the idols of the extreme right. >> you have two sons, been an

joshed. it tells about both of them. >> they are -- to tell us about them. -- >> you have two sons, ben and josh. >> been is much under -- ben is much younger and he is a host of turner classic movies. you cannot do much better than that. there is no downside. >> was and he won of the young turks on air america? >> yes. he was the first drama critic of "the new yorker" magazine. he worked for "new york world."

i knew all of those people. he was a member of the round table crowd. maybe it came from him and maybe it came from his father who was a professor of german literature. >> here is a little more from ted kennedy at that rose. >> -- at that roast. >> it was a marriage made in heaven. she relied heavily on his press skills, what my brother love the most was the day-to-day company and his sense of humor. once bobby brought him to the senate office said he was just a tiny baby. body showed him off and introduced into the whole office. at that time, frank had just

become a father again, too. his son had been born a few weeks earlier. so, bobby went over to frank's desk, held up the baby, and said the "franc, say hello to dodi. he has just read [unintelligible] . he continued, next week, he is going to read it all again, right side up. >> that reminds me of reading part of the speech that bobby kennedy gave in indianapolis after the death of martin luther king.

did he really know aeschylus? you wrote about writing a speech to that place, but he spoke off the cuff. >> i was not writing a speech, but i was writing ideas for a speech but we never got to it because the police abandoned our motorcade. >> and just left you? >> yes. >> why? >> of the press bus got to the speech after bobby kennedy started the speech. that speech was right off the top of his head. he knew the great poets. he carried edith hamilton's book called "the greek way." he is one of the few -- robert kennedy and ted kennedy as well

were one of the few politicians that keep on learning. most of us bank our intellectual capital in our mid-20s and then we live off the interest. >> don't you keep on learning? >> i tried. what what technique the use -- >> what technique do use? >> i read books and i talked to a lot of people. i have a good memory. i think that many of us to just take what we have and live off of that. >> as you are writing this memoir, are you just recalling off the top of your head or have you kept notes over the years? >> i have not kept notes, but what i did for the last two years was meet with this the

gentleman and he would bring a tape recorder and asked me questions about different parts of my life. i've got those, and it is quite a library to look at. >> do you want to just give us a hand on what story you are telling that we will read about next year? >> i would think about what they might be. some are probably profane and not for widespread circulation. >> when will it will be published? >> -- when will it be published? >> whenever the publisher publishes it. >> here is george mcgovern. >> some members of the press

started to venture the opinion that i was just too nice of a guy to be president of the united states. how could such a gentle and decent soul hold up in the rough-and-tumble of presidential politics. i mentioned this to frank. he said that i should tell them that i do have a few virtues, but the list of sins as much longer. i would refer them to frank m. he does have a lot of sense, but that as classified information until after judgment day. that was frank: the state.

-- about was francks way. they found their answer and richard nixon. -- their answer in richard nixon >> in your memoir, are you want to tell us the sense of george mcgovern? but i do not think so. i will talk a lot about richard nixon. >> what did you think about him? >> the white house tapes that he made, in this mcgovern campaign, in 1972, when george wallace was shot in the middle of may, 1972, the captured the would-be assassin on the spot.

nixon had heard from the fbi or from someone where he lived. he had an apartment in milwaukee. in any event, nixon then called chuck colson in his office. this is on tape. he told him to hurry up and get out to this guy's apartment in milwaukee before the fbi surrounded it and took over and plant mcgovern literature. that was the president of united states. i think that is all you need to know. >> you've come across as a mild- mannered individual. do you ever get really angry? >> i do from time to time. >> what angers you most in politics? >> i am increasingly angered by the acidity -- the passivity of

the media. they are always contesting these two sides. a television loves controversy. preferably violent controversy. it brings in the audience. the result is that you can tell the most outrageous lies and it will all be treated as ordinary conversation. this debate over health-care reform or global warming, whatever it is, there are some absolute false statements being made which the media know are false and yet they will cite them as propositions that propositions that has to be answered -- propositions that have to be answered by the other side.

somebody says that that is not entirely true and that there is controversy here and there. the media has yet to say that senator so when so wide today when he said x, y or z. that gets me angry. >> we were talking about the cronkite column that you wrote after he died. will there ever be anyone as big? is that ever were to happen again? will someone have the stature? should they? >> maybe not. maybe not. somewhere, we have to find a

medium, and i am not sure we are going to. >> frank, thank you for joining us. let's take you, i enjoyed it. >>-- >> thank you, i enjoyed it. >> 40 dvd copy of this program, called 1-877-662-7726. 43 transcripts or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q&a.org. this program is also available as a podcast. >> your watching c-span, public affairs program courtesy of

america's cable companies. coming up next, remarks from william hague on defense spending and policy issues. then, a look at media coverage of the health-care debate. a little bit later, on a q&a, frank mankiewicz. >> tomorrow, on "washington journal," james horney, terry o'neil, the president of the national organization for women discusses health care and abortion amendment. also, author mike evans talks about his book. was