speaking out about diabetes and the importance to fund research and hopefully find a cure one day. >> when would you come back to washington and help us again? like diabetes, the legislative struggle is a daily thing. >> i am not completely sure what i'm coming back next. but i definitely would love to. this is my second visit in the last couple of months. it is a great place to come to speak out about the important things like this. >> what was your favorite part of visiting the white house? >> i always had this dream of becoming the president one day. i talk about a lot. and so being there was cool to see the history. it was obsolete such an honor. we were able to play an

acoustic set up for the obama. . >> who would you most like to have dinner with? let me stevie wonder was an honor.

elvis costello was an intelligent person. i got to sit down with them. i would love to sit down with him and talk a little bit more. he seemed like a great person. >> can you show us your dog attack? -- dog tag? >> it is under the tie and shirt, so i will not do it now. [laughter] but i have a special one my family got me for christmas, so i with that one. these are also special. people have been wearing them at the shows. they show me they support the cause and they are either diabetic or just their to raise awareness, and that means a lot to me. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009]

>> members of congress have been holding meetings with constituents in the district over the summer recess. the meeting's focus largely on health care legislation that congress is working on. tonight, ron kind takes questions a hospital in his district, next on c-span. after that, patrick mcenroe wizen on health care debate. later, a study from the rand corp. leading medical costs with adverse economic conditions. >> go online, to follow the latest links. what's the latest events, including town hall meetings,

and share your views. there is more on c- span.org/healthcare. now, democratic representative ron kind holds a town hall meeting to discuss health care legislation and take questions. from white hall high school in whitehall, wisconsin, this is about 90 minutes. >> the focus of today's meeting is to have some feedback, get some suggestions and ideas about the state of the health-care system in the country, what improvements can be made, what is working, what is not. numbers will be cold. if you have the number, come up to the microphone. our assignment is to get to as many as people as possible. our timekeeper will hold up 30 seconds, and you will be given

time to respond. if there is something more personal you want to talk to me about afterwards, i will be around for awhile. i also just wanted to thank the superintendent and principal for the hospitality of opening up the high school and auditorium. we usually do not generate so big a crowd. because of that, we had to move into a bigger forum. richard anderson, when just spoke to briefly, and the other one person personnel kind enough to be shared, i would like to thank. we have dick miller, the county board chair. all of you probably know dick

and the work he has been doing. he will act as an unbiased moderator, trying to keep things moving along. i thank him for being here. he has been a business owner here for other 30 years, and he was kind enough to moderate record also have duke conrad, a registered nurse of over 30 years who has inside perspective on the health-care system. i found in previous forms of this magnitude, especially, we have to have the ability as a nation to come together and listen to each other, to act in a civil and respectful manner so that we can hear what each of us are thinking and the various

ideas out there. even in a family, you will not be in complete agreement with family members, but hopefully this will be what the form is about. i do understand that passions run deep, and why not? it is incredibly important for our nation that we deal with health care and try to find improvements for its so it works for all of us. with that, let me turn it over to dick and ask him to lead us in the pledge of allegiance. >> i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> i would like to welcome the

congressman here from whitehall and from the county. we appreciate him here today to share our questions and comments. i may refer to the sheet you were handed when you came and, -- came in, and i want to reiterate that democracy works best when we listen to everyone. no posters or signs are present and the building. everyone will respect each other with no disruptions while you were speaking. no talking over each other, everyone will have -- i am sorry. those who wanted to speak filled out a sheet when they came in. as the congressman indicated, there is a lottery. my guess is, and i have not

spoken about this with ron, but if you are able to be brief, more will be heard. so bear that in mind. there is a two-minute limit, with a warning. the other thing is, when time is up, someone will pinch me, and i am 27 "* up." ok? thank you. >> i apologize to me because i know many of you would like the opportunity to speak today and we will not get to everyone. but we have these informational sheets. if you have some comment or question, you can submit it, i will try to review them. you can always contact my office 3 e-mail and phone calls. we do want to hear from all of you.

thank you for jeff being here. thanks also for state representative chris dana. i know congress has been working especially hard in madison as far as the state health care affecting wisconsin, so i thank you for that. let me turn it over to sue for some introductory remarks that may stimulate discussion or conversation. i am very grateful sheet free up some of her time to be with us today. >> good morning, everybody. glad to see so many faces here. we do need reform and health care system. i have difficulty calling it health care.

i have had 36 years in the system and i have watched the system go from being a doctor- patient relationship to being an insurance company-patient relationship, and i do not believe that that is what we read deserve in the united states. there are some elements of this major reform that most of us can agree on. we need insurance market reform. we need for there not to be pre- existing condition exclusions. if you start a new job and have diabetes, you might not be able to get a kite -- health insurance from your new employer. we need to and no artificial hikes based on illness. well you have health insurance,

if you get sick, he developed high blood pressure or heart condition, in some instances, your insurance premium or deductible goes up. we need portability for everyone. what we're seeing more and more of today's world is that more and more people are underinsured. they have high, high deductibles, horrendously high premiums, and those can and often to go up. we need basic, comprehensive benefits. we need to make this health care, not medical care. one thing i often hear is that the way to live a long life in the u.s. is to develop a chronic disease and take care of it. we should not have to develop a chronic disease. we should be able to little lie along like but critical a long

life by staying healthy, but our system must enable us to do that -- we should be able to live on long life -- live a long life by staying healthy, but our system must enable us to do that. we have quality health care that is at a comparatively low cost. unfortunately, [inaudible] if you have a heart attack in miami, the cost will be 10 times as much as it is in marshfield, and he will get the same care. -- you will get the same care. it needs to be covered for everyone. we need to focus on prevention and primary care. we need to be able to be healthy.

we spend enough money now uninsured people going through emergency care, because if they are uninsured, they wait until they cannot wait any longer to go in. by then, it is past time when we can care for the problem. cost effectively. so those costs have been passed on to those of us who are paying our own bills. there are major disparities in efficiency and quality care.

we need to have the same quality nationwide. we are lucky to have quality care here. in my current position, i travel around the united states. i know that isn't true everywhere. finally, we know that we need reform. the thing is, we need it now. our current system is unsustainable and failing. it is failing fast. very much like a sinking ship. personally, i do not want to be one of those people who is in charge of that ships, deciding who the people are who are going to get the lifeboat. thank you. [applause] >> let me just quickly bring

you up to date. there has been a lot of discussion in congress and the mound the country about what should be in health care and what should not. it is still a work in progress. the bill reported out of my committee, ways and means, i voted no on. i thought there were substantial areas of improvement that needed to be made. there are a few areas of primary focus for me, getting back to what she included in her system. we do need system delivery reform. right now, it is the kind of care, rather than the value. we are spending about $680 billion a year on certain care and procedures and imaging and hospital stays that does not

improve patient care. into many instances, it makes it worse. that is why we have huge geographic differences in spending today. our health care providers are doing it. they are showing us the way, from marshfield, to the collaborations here in wisconsin, they are delivering high-quality with low-cost compared to other regions, and that is the reason why the president comes to this area as the model of care we should strive for nationwide. because of the cost savings that will bring it down and make it more affordable for citizens. i have especially been focused on changing that payment system so it is quality-based, not quantity-based.

$600 billion is a game changer. we can start finding better efficiencies. that is what will make it better for all of us. i think we have to look at this health care system as one of the great cost drivers. secondly, the small group market has not been working well for small businesses and farmers. it is too expensive. i cannot tell you how many farmers are going without because of the high cost of health care in some of the most dangerous careers. we propose a national exchange that would create a menu of options for small businesses and farmers and individuals to choose with intrigue -- complete

transparency, so you know what you will pay for. we're coupling with small businesses to have health coverage. a majority of the uninsured are working americans, typically in small businesses or farms, people who cannot afford health insurance. if we introduced choice, that would be a significant help for people. finally, this can not to speak about some government program. ultimately, moving to a health care system starts right here with every one of us. let's face it. we need to eat better, exercise more, stop smoking, take more personal responsibility in our health care if this is ultimately going to work.

what we can do is to incentivize greatest reforms, greater emphasis on primary care physicians. we do not have enough of them, but they are at the front line, dealing with patients, along with registered nurses, to help people with prevention and wellness. 80% of health care costs right now are going to 20% of the population, and they deal with chronic disease and illness, very expensive to treat. we can do more in prevention, and that would bring substantial cost savings. that is one reason i have been focused on children's health, making sure they have access to quality health care, and also helping them make the right lies adulteresses early on so that we are not dealing with chronic

diseases to the rest of their life. i am interested to hear your thoughts. i'm going to turn it over to dick, he will call at numbers, we will get this conversation going. terry is going to hold up cards. she will be giving you a one- minute and a 30-second warning and a stop warning so we can get to as many of you as possible, and i will be around for a while after the forum. thank you for coming, and i turn it over to you. [applause] >> when i read your number, if you could come forward, and i would suggest off to decide -- the side. ok.

so to come up and formal little line here, we will alternate back and forth, and the first one, the next one, and so forth. then we will be calling more up as the numbers decrease. ok. 393527. 527, the last three digits. next number is 561. next to number is 502. next number is 512. 715. 546. 727.

if you would come up and be prepared when is your turn, please. this gentleman was here first, i believe. 502, 546, 727, 13, 715, 512, 527, and 561. left a -- [laughter] >> before you speak, identified you are and where you are from, and then the floor is yours. thank you. >> thank you for the opportunity. i am alan cranford, from holton, wisconsin. i believe that the cash for clunkers program is a perfect example of the government not

being able to pay out the money to the car dealers. clap of the [applause] icon it would be a travesty to have the federal government and control of health care, providing 1% or 2% of the health care, with bureaucracy and waiting and waiting for payments. bankrupted dealers going through this money -- i do not believe the federal government should be providing free health care. [applause] i believe health care is a privilege and not a right. thank you for your time.

[applause] >> first off, thank you for holding. let me say thank you for your years of public service. we appreciate it. it is often a thankless job. my name is dr. thomas kamp, with the city council, third district rep. every year at the city level we see increasing health care cost. in recent years, we were looking at double digits, close to 40%, 50%, annual increases in health- care costs. but i think it is important for everyone understand that these costs, these increasing health care costs, force us to look at other city services, such as fire, police, the basic elements. it makes us more difficult to provide those city services. i think it is critical we work

on health care cost, and i thank you for your work in that direction thus far. if we do not bring down costs and look at the way we provide health care in this nation seriously, it could effectively bankrupt us in many ways and cause us to fail to provide many of the services everyone in this room holds dear. we require the streets to be clean to get to work. individuals and businesses require it. thank you for your direction and i am glad that you are focusing in on cost, bring costs down. i think a public auction, if we could see something effective, could bring it down to the pooling of risk.

clap of -- [applause] i think some public auction, somewhere where we could bring the costs down would really be cool. i will leave it there. thank you again. [applause] >> my name is matthew. i live in the city of a clear and work there. i am in local 284. i rise in support of the public option. i believe everyone should have the opportunity to have good health care. currently, our system is completely off track. it is a for-profit system, even if they say it is not. we do need this reform, and that is all i have today. [applause]

>> my name is carolyn kaiser. i am here in wisconsin, a member of council 24. i think people should understand the public option a little bit. right now, insurance companies hold a lot. they tell us what network we are in, our diagnosis, but it will cover " -- what they will cover or not, medical supplies, all of that. if we have a catastrophic illness, we are on that account. so that is the bottom-line. we need support for people. that is where the public auction comes in. the bigger the pool, the better you negotiate.

that is where we really are. right now we have a lot of people who would say, well, i am concerned about this. look around this room. how many of you are on medicare? how many of you are on social security? [applause] i know that fdr worked on health care reform back in the 1940's. it is time we make that real life. in life, we need to remember the golden rule and treat others like we want to be treated. i want to have health care, i want you to have health care. we are all on the same page. thank you. [applause] >> congressman, thank you for this opportunity. >> 39, 652.

579. 579. 678. 678. 671. thank you. go ahead. >> congressman, thank you for your opportunity. my name is john stetson, from eau claire. i am on and floyd and without health care coverage. -- i am unemployed as of 10 months ago and without health care coverage. i have been diagnosed with cancer and the treatment is extraordinarily expensive. that said, it was fortunately diagnosed during a preventive care physical, and so i am a believer and advocate of preventive care. i wish i had done it earlier. however, during that, i arrived

for an appointment and they looked me up and they said, yes, you are scheduled for a treadmill test for heart pain. i said, i have no problem with my heart. they said, no, it says right here you have part issues. i said, that is not accurate. and they said, after discussing it and sitting down with the physician, he admitted to me that that was the only way that the insurance company would pay for the "procedures." that has to stop. we can't afford this. we may have to look for the money -- we cannot afford this. -- we can afford this. we may have to look for the

money, but we can afford this. for everyone. [applause] >> by name is jim, and i am from eau claire, wisconsin, and i serve on the board of supervisors. as we start our 2010 budget process, we begin with a 0% increase. we do that without knowing what the insurance policy will be. the constant increase in health- insurance costs, along with limits, has created a budget crisis that affects our basic services. our need for health and human services have increased because of the current economy that is forcing people into our services. we're also trying to change the way we look at alternatives to incarceration, but we're doing this with a lack of funding. we are currently paying in

excess of $22,000, so we need health care policy that lowers and controls a cost of insurance. all local governments face this problem. your help with the effort will be greatly appreciated. thank you. [applause] >> i'm going to stay away from political issues. i just want to speak to some issues that you would be wise to pay attention to. thank you for voting to slow this down a little. [applause] i agree there are a lot of things that need to be reformed

about the way we provide health care and sick care. there are a couple of things that i just have not heard much about. maybe there are things in this bill that nobody is talking about, so i would like to get these things out. what do we do with tort reform? [applause] i can tell you that in family medicine, i have less of it than other specialties. cost overrun things that do not work. i know in a lot of specialties, there are 30% or more tests and treatments simply to prevent lawsuits against the physician.

>> we have reform already in the state of wisconsin. do you feel like it is not working well? >> i feel like it is better than most states. thank you. that is a good point. in general, i can tell you, doctors are coming out. i just got a new partner last year. it is bad. so if we do not control tort reform and malpractice climate, we will never change the way that doctors did business. [applause] and that is not to say that doctors have to not be held accountable for bad decisions. they should. but there should be a limit. the second issue, we need to do something to address primary- care doctor shortage. if not, where are they going to be?

i am three weeks out on my appointments. >> i am from whitehall. the latest word is that we are talking about health insurance reform, and we are one to cut the costs. can you tell us how exactly we will cut costs? looking at the government's track record when it comes to cutting costs, it is not very good. [applause] >> we will take a series of questions and try to come back to it.

i have been focused on system delivery reform and focused on how we pay for health. we have $680 billion worth of care that does not improve patient care and in many instances makes it worse. that is what we need to be focused on. and there are things in this bill that move to what our health care providers are doing in wisconsin and throughout the region, a coordinated approach that is patient-focused, one that is working. that is why the president has been saying, you know, they have got it. they figured it out, the approach to patient care in the region, resulting in high quality, low cost. unfortunately, other parts of the country have not figured it out yet. that is what we're trying to bring out, to make it more affordable for everyone. >> good morning.

i have a friend who works for a health-care network. they would only hire him as a contractor, so they would not be able to give him benefits. he was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes last year. the insurance companies will not sell him coverage, where they make it so expensive for him that it is unattainable. his refills of $196, and the last two months. his doctors visits cost him $110. last october he was in the hospital for three days, and it cost him $15,000. my question, as a self-employed americans, is, will you please keep the public option in the health-care bill? [applause]

it must be the choice if we will have any genuine improvement. the insurance industry is holding us hostage because there are no checks or balances for genuine competition. how do you feel about the public auction? -- public option? >> the role we would play would be but one of many options with in the national exchange that is being created. i think it can work under many conditions. it has to compete with other plants in the exchange on a level playing field. it has to be actuarially sound. that would drive competition in

this national exchange we're trying to put out. but here is the point. there are a lot of people right here in wisconsin and throughout the nation with at least like a choice of a public auction in the exchange. no one has to take it does not want it, but they need it so they do not only have private insurance plans. i was riled when i found the cl -- ceo of united healthcare was getting $600 million in compensation when he retired, coming from premiums and deductibles and co-payments, not going back into patient care. that is a problem. [applause]

>> 6 04, 753, 71643. thank you. >> your last statement reminds me of -- my name is garnett, and i am from eau claire, the last statement, i thought you were going to say bank of america or citibank, because that looked very similar. [applause] i like what you said. i respect what you said, and you said it very well. my main concern is apprehension, extreme apprehensive feelings about government involvement. [applause] my thought has been all along

these lines. why would it not be possible for president obama to call a summit? why doesn't he have a summit of providers, doctors, nurses, insurance companies, other health-care providers, calling them all together, letting them sit down and go at each other for probably a number of days, but have some braintrust of getting people together to try and talk this out? the insurance companies i know are to blame, but we need to go across state lines and work together. [applause] i am a little frightened of a public option, because it would be government funded. they say you can keep your own insurance, but i do not know if they can compete with the government.

i am afraid that sooner or later, the government would usurp all of the involvement, and we are frightened. it is very scary. my concern is that we need to work together across party lines. we are all human beings, and we all need solutions. it would be wonderful if we could get together. thank you. >> maybe i was not clear, but the public option has to be self sustaining. cannot be receiving government subsidies to prop it up. on your first point, i agree. that is the purpose of the forearm -- forum, and it is important that we listen to each

other. but the president had health care summits throughout the year. i was sitting next to a senator, and the discussion we have, i have personally encourage the president to do more of that, to bring in different people and viewpoints, even those disagreeing with what he thinks has to be done so he gets a wide section of your points. bobbie, former state representative in the area, thank you for joining us. >> congressman kind, we are so lucky to have a forum like this.

oftentimes, when we look at the quality of health care provided in rural america, is probably a higher quality than provided in any metropolitan area. one concern we have is that the reimbursement process must pay rural health-care providers the same as they pay those from large metropolitan areas. nurses and physicians that are as talented as anyone anyplace else around america, and we need to keep them. we also need to make sure our rural areas have access to physicians. so maybe training physicians and giving them some breaks in their cost of education would include more people becoming available to service, and i do not know if it can be part of the bill itself, but it is something we

need to consider, and thank you so much for coming. >> thank you, congressman, for the forum. i appreciate the opportunity to speak today. i am a lifelong resident of wisconsin and the business manager of 434. bottom-line, our health care system is broken. our employers can continue to for double-digit increases, and it is not acceptable. the tax incentives and the national poll you are discussing make it a reality. those benefits in these countries -- health benefits must not be taxed, and we

believe there has to be a strong public option to provide for the less fortunate in this country. [applause] >> thank you. my work brings me to the area today, and i saw you would have the form on the news and thought i would stop been. there are a lot of buses outside. thank you. in the construction industry, we wanted to find out what as a percentage health care costs were in 1964, compared to today, of the total compensation package. i learned that in 1964, our health care costs took up between 3% and 4% of total

compensation. today it is approaching 17%. we have a real crisis, and when you couple with the fact that in 1964, most families were single- income. today we have many double income families paying into two plans and only getting one benefit. we have a crisis, and we were always able to come together after a crisis like 9/11 or pearl harbor. we were able to come together saying the pledge of allegiance. we needed to come together before this crisis. the way to stop looking for blame -- on one hand, we want to blame providers for gouging. they are for-profit, doing it because they can. on the other hand, we want to blame the government because they cannot handle health care. if that is your view, let's get involved. let's run for office.

[applause] the fact is, we have the entire industrialized nation to look at as a template for health care delivery. do not tell me that we, as americans, if we come together, we cannot get a better. thank you. [applause] >> 782, 664, 621, and 656. >> thank you for holding this forum. i run a couple of small businesses. my concern with what is being proposed is i find it similar to

what happens to the bailout of the auto industry. there was supposed to be a great deal of transparency with the bailout. no one knows, or at least i was not aware, how much money we gave them. there is not transparency there. we do not know where the money actually came from or where it is going. loans, etc., etc. you have the brightest minds supposedly working on these things. i am afraid that our health care, you take it over, it will be stuck in the same situation. [applause] my concern is purely financial.

where will it stop? how will we know what is happening, where will it go, where will it come from, etc.? that is a serious problem, because it could go on forever. if auto sales are flat, we have to give them another hundred 50 billion in september? that is my concern with health care. thank you. [applause] >> i have sri brief points i would like to make. number one, i am concerned about a once free people, a brave people -- never trade freedom for security, or you will lose both.

[applause] rep kinds, i heard you say that in these debates, we should respect one another. with that advice in mind, i would like you to tell nancy pelosi that we are not on american -- un-american. [applause] i would like you to tell harry reid that we are not evil. i would like you to tell your congressman that we are not a mob, not a complex clan, and we have nothing in common with

timothy mcveigh. we are americans, simply exercising our constitutional rights. clap up [applause] also, please tell your community organizing president to get used to an organized community. and finally, point number three, what? >> i let other people finish their comments. it will only take a second. >> i'm going to quote cs lewis.

of all the tyrannies, a tierney exercised for the good of its victims may be most effective. it would be better under robber barons then under omnipotent moral busybodies. [applause] the robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep. his stupidity may be satiated. but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without an, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. [applause]

>> mr. chair, i would like to yield my time to the lady in the strikes here. go ahead. >> you are up right now. i thought we would just do ladies first? congressman, i'd do appreciate this time. what a fabulous country we live in to be able to do this. i do not care which side of the issue you stand on. that being said, congressman -- i am a citizen aeau claire. i identified myself on the side of liberty, and that is what this country was founded on, perfect liberty. when the levy before said she was apprehensive, i do not want to speak for her, but i am apprehensive because i fear personal liberty being taken away by this bill and the public

option. i do not say that as someone who in your terms might be on the right side of the aisle. i also want you to know that i oppose the patriot act, as well, because it imprisons our personal liberties. there are portions of this bill that penalize business owners if they do not enroll in the plan. that is wrong. there are portions of the bill, and in fact, the one that struck me as totally bizarre, page 16, actually prevents insurers from enrolling more patients on a private basis after a certain date. i am opposed to that. it infringes on the liberty of business owners and is wrong. so we do need to oppose this

bill. we need to oppose it for a lot of reasons. the final point i would like you to take home next time you see the president, please tell him we are not concerned about his legacy. we are concerned about freedom and protection from the government. [applause] >> 577, 772, 584, and 767. go ahead, please. >> thank you. my name is condi marshall, and i am from lacrosse. i am really concerned because as a christian, i want to make certain that this -- if there is

a national health-care bill, which i sincerely hope there isn't, that there is wording in this bill that does not leave open this issue of abortion. [applause] we have killed 50 million people in this country since 1971. that is a whole generation of people. this bill has not even addressed it.

it does not prohibit abortion. there needs to be language in there that specifically prohibits abortion. >> i think there is a misconception out there. under current law, there are no of public funds for abortions. that will not change in the bill. no change under this legislation. >> ok. [applause] i just got to make another quick point, and i think it is very important. the health-care commission that will be formed, or may already be formed to oversee this bill will be able to pass rules that

they themselves make after the bill is passed, and this is why i am opposed to the national health care bill. . .

>> i still did not get an answer. are you as a politician going to take it? and if not, why? >> let me answer that really quick. i am not on the federal employee health plan. but under this bill, members of congress and federal employees will not be treated any differently than any other citizen of this country. it will apply equally to everyone, and under this bill -- just to be clear on this point, no one is forced into a public option that does not want to go there. >> you are for it, no question it. but are you changing that? >> i am not. i am not on the federal employee health plan. >> i know what you are on. you're getting insurance -- that

is what i was told. >> i answered your question. maybe we're talking across from each other. what is the question you want me to answer? >> are these politicians going to be taking this federal plan, like you are asking everyone else to? >> if they want to, they can. we're not forcing anyone -- listen, folks. i have to give you the honest responses. you can choose to believe me or not. but under this plan, no one is forcing you into any public option if you do not want to go there. we are not saying that. we're saying that people want a choice. yet people want the choice. >> we will take your choice, then. one last thing, when did the government auction become the

public option? all i hear now is public option. it was the government auction. we change the wording just like we changed the boogeyman from the doctors to hospitals, and not to the insurance companies. who is the next bogeyman? [applause] >> congressman, thank you for coming today. i appreciate your time in your openness. -- and your openness. my name is diana, and i live in arcadia. i am on your mailing list and i thank you for the opportunity and services that you provide. kudos to you there. my biggest concern, many people have raised, loss of trust.

you can sense it yourself. you just said that we can believe you if we want to are not. there is an all or a lack of trust in our government officials and it is getting worse. -- an overall lack of trust in our government officials and it is getting worse. [applause] what will you do to regain the trust set that people of the great state of wisconsin? how have you voted? did you both with a budget that was passed earlier this year, and it seemed to be no one can answer read their your read the don bain -- it seems to me that no one can answer whether you read the darn thing and not? you're not listening to us. people, call them. tell them how you feel about the issues. when i call on express my concerns and how you should vote to represent us, do you listen to us? are you listening to your

constituents? i thank you for coming here today. one of the concerns i will mention in the time i have left is the federal debt. we are spiraling out of control and health care plan, i don't know how you would get around it, there will be cuts. you willing -- you will increase our debt. we are way out of control. we need to rein that back in and protect our future generations. we also need to protect the jobs of this country. people are shifting jobs overseas. i would like to know what you're going to do to protect them. [applause] >>, thank you diane. the president has stated repeatedly he will not sign a health care -- health care bill that adds to the national debt. i agree with him on that. it is one of the reasons i voted

against, five years ago, when i voted against the new prescription drug plan. it was an $800 billion burden on future generations and not one nickel is paid for. [applause] to add to your question, i voted against the honest built this year because it contains 8000 earmarks in it and i thought i was irresponsible. -- i thought it was irresponsible. i share your concerns. that is out of control and we have to bring it back under control for the sake of our children. thank you. >> 788, 766, 765, 811.

serve. >-- sir. >> i would like to know why the big rush? -- why the big rush? [applause] how many have even read this monstrosity? how many people can understand it? the next thing, but government has a very poor track record in getting things done right. [unintelligible] medicare is bankrupt, medicaid is bankrupt, look at the post office, look at social security -- they are all bankrupt. whenever the government gets their hands on something, it goes bankrupt. and the reason we are seeing such huge crowds like we're seeing is people feel that they

are not being represented. [applause] we the people are speaking and [unintelligible] this nationalized government controlled health care system. just a lesson from life. if i go to work, my boss tells me something to do, and i do something else, he will give me a warning. do it again, he would give me a warning. do it again, i will go down the road looking for another job. we're giving you all morning. -- a warning. thank you. [applause]

>> representative kind, thank you for coming. i had been a resident of whitehall or 15 years. -- for 15 years. i bring you greetings from the people across all. rita across a hall. this is a pretty big issue before us. -- i bring you greetings from across the hall. my biggest concerns about the plans on paying for this. currently we have medicare and medicaid, social security, these programs are underfunded. and now it looks like we're going to take on another program that i clearly have not heard how we're going to fund these programs. can you answer that? >> is a fair question and it is important. we have to figure out how to pay for this. it is crucial that we are not

adding debt to future generations. the irony is that under the congressional budget office, a non-partisan committee that scores these and tells us what is going happen, they said that under the current reform proposal, it will extend a lifetime of medicare by seven years, because of the changes we're making with the medicare program. >> they say that this would be a net of $0 savings. >> all i can tell you what cbo said. the solvency of medicare is extended by another seven years by what we're doing here. but it is a valid point and something that we have to be focused on as we move forward, how we're going to pay for these things. >> we have three options. we can raise taxes, we can borrow more, and i think we're coming to the end of what we can borrow from china, and i hear

the printing presses are running. dollars there is another option. we can reform the delivery system and change the payment system. when you have $680 billion wasted every year, we ought to be looking there for -- first for cost savings. >> we get back to the argument that cbs says, the savings on this is $0. we're doing all this for nothing. >> they are not saying that. the cbo was the same net. >> thank you very much. >> of at least some of the people did not come up. -- evidently some of the people did not come up here the last four were 753, 716, 603, and

811. the next four are 657, 77, 47, 670. -- 87487, and 670. we have an echo in the back there. >> i am from lacrosse. dollars you have to get right into the microphone. >> i think all lot of issues have been addressed here but the thing i see the worst, we are bogged down under this debt and we're looking at another program that will cost as trillions, maybe. we have to borrow this money,

correct? we are borrowing money from the chinese right now. how much, billions are trillions of dollars? this is to find our debt. but one thing i know is that when you are in debt, you know the guys and the person you are in debt to. they control how you react. if we have a major financial situation in this country with all of this debt piled on to us, how do we do it without coming to us and asking us to polis it -- put it at our pockets? i appreciate anything -- tort reform, we've got to get some tort reform ended this. -- into this. >> let me address that really quick. you have known me for a number of years. talk about that debt in this

country since day one. there are incredible amounts of spending. and last eight years, we had the fastest and largest accumulation of national debt in our history. double -- a doubling of national debt and a spiral out of a cough -- out of control. and it is a bipartisan problem in search of a bipartisan answer. that is why i am a fan of pay- as-you-go. we have to find an offset to pay for in order to maintain it. and we have not had that. and we have to change it. and on tort reform, i agree with you. david, if we're going to be asking doctors to practice best evidence medicine, they should be given safe haven of about lawsuits. i like how was cans and --

wisconsin has at example, there's a patient compensation fund. but wisconsin does have a cap. we have medical malpractice reform, so that is not alone the answer to the health-care challenge that we face, with so many states having it in place. >> i am walter adams and. i call this the slow vote to china. -- the slow boat to china. you're on the ways and means committee force also security, and i am talking about a chart to 35, which is this year call this also security fairness act of 2009. that is the name given to it this year. and for the last 20 years, it has had various names. this bill has been collecting dust for more than 20 years.

you are shaking your head yasser you know what i'm talking about. for the audience, under the reagan administration -- so security reform was done at that time. there are various groups that seen their social security reduced by 75%, teachers, postal workers, and others. we would like you -- this year there are 300 co-sponsors of that bill. according to my ever mentioned, you are not one of them. the way this works this, if you are a nurse for 20 years, ding you became a teacher after that , you dan hedger's also security reduced by 20% -- i am sorry, 75%. in my tastes -- and my case, i was reduced by 75%. i'm getting $200 less. how about that?

we know how your stimulus bailout bill went through so fast. 20 years as a long time to think about how to finance the reform bill, h.r. 235. one way to finance it is to look on your computer. this i call government waste. i know you can find it. that would be a way to improve the situation. i think that is all that i have to say. it took me two minutes. [applause] >> congressman, thank you for being here today. i am a retired professional professor. >> please identify yourself. >> i am from zero clear. -- oak clair. however like to reauthorize -- i

like to say again the concern i have about congress and representatives having their own health care when they are putting health care like this, putting it on all of us. i know that you have said we're not going have to do that, but i've read that eventually we will all be on this. and that is the goal. i am against this because that really is a problem. i am for competition and i hope our doctors would also have freedoms. their hands are being tied more and more than ever. i want them to be able to be freed up to do things that they know will heal the person, truly, truly cure them without having peer pressure or pharmaceutical companies coming down on them. and i need to see something like

that in this bill. and also, the health care plan is very clear from what i have looked at here. the only acceptable plan, and it will affect every aspect of our life, and i am concerned with the families, the choices that the parents will be able to make, being able to make choices for building up our own immune system so that the health care rally will not cost as much as it is today, because that is much lacking here. the way we are modifying our food and things like that has to change so we can have this freedom to build up our country, with our families, and with associates that we have here together. thank you for being here and i hope you will seriously consider these big changes they come into this plan before it can be voted for.

>> four more numbers. 607, 585, 538, and [unintelligible] >> i am from fountain city. i'm a retired teacher. i think most of the questions that i was going ask have already been answered but i have a few comments to make. i am 83 years old. i had heart surgery 30 years ago. i went to gunderson with iran which has senior preferred, and i get insurance about half of what i paid when i was a teacher. it was negotiated by union. i think that pay less than $300

-- i pay less than $300 a month for both my wife and nine. the guide gunderson lutheran, we've got may 0 in lacrosse, and another good organization of north. we have some of the finest health care in the world right here and i cannot understand why we want the government to take cover what is working and what is good. -- to take over what is working in what is good. -- and what is good. i have one minute remaining. i guess that is all i have got to say. i don't see how anyone in this area would want the government to take over. [applause] >> congressman kind, i thank you

for coming to my home here in whitehall, wisconsin. i'm an electrician, semi retired because of the economy. i'm a united states veterans [applause] being the united states veteran, i'm luckier than most people because contrary to popular belief, i have the best health care system and the most cost-efficient one, and it is run by the federal government, and that is the va. in the past decade, medical costs have increased 119%.

the congressional budget office estimates, and i quote, that job based health insurance could increase 100% in the next decade. absent -- employer based insurance companies -- costs for a family of four will reach $25,000 absent health care reform. another study in 2007 showed that 62% of all bankruptcy's burlington medical expenses. of those who filed bankruptcy, 80% had health insurance. not only as affordable health care reform morally the right thing to do, i believe that the u.s. economy will be dependent on health care reform. thank you. [applause]

>> i was just reminded and come up that these are the last three -- i was just reminded, that these were the last break, correct? dollars water to step forward? -- dolla>> why don't you step forward? >> and from the northwest of wisconsin. one person testified about cancer. every month i deny people basic health-care, people with diabetes, people needed even

when i get medical care or allow a certain amount of money were dying couple before they get a single penny from the government. that has not changed for over 20 years. we're told that it is an american to get these basic needs to people. -- is on american -- it is unamerican to g. begive these basic needs to people. jesus said that you do and others which could do in the may. i do not believe it is un- american to get the services to the least of my brethren. i reject the idea that anything we would do for the common good is socialism. [applause]

with that social security denounced as socialism. that g.i. bill was denounced as socialism. the 40-hour work week was announced as socialism. medicare were denounced as socialism. i do not think that they are socialism. i think they are the marks of a civilized nation. [applause] and if we can get this reform through, it will be one more mark of a civilized nation. thank you. [applause] >> good afternoon, congressman. thank you for hearing that out. i feel like my heart is going to come out of my chest hair. >> you are doing great.

>> my name is steve pittman. i think we need to take a deep breath and slowdown with this process. we haven't got up -- a lot of great lives in this country, a lot of great people, and this is a very important problem we have. how would like to say that -- i would like to say that righteousness' exalts the nation. let's honor the most high so he will honor us. [applause] >> thank you, congressman, for coming. i am 24 years old and i'm trying to go back to school to finish my degree but i do not want to quit my full-time job because i would lose my health insurance. are there any provisions that would help people in my situation to have access to

enter insurance -- to insurance while they go back to school? >> you are exactly right. for too many people in this country, you are in a job in a lot of respects because of health care insurance provided them. i cannot tell you how many people it would said that i have been working here and i was been often create my own company and create jobs in this area. but because my employer- sponsored health care and my wife and family has pre-existing conditions, i could not do it. one of the objectives of the bill is to create this national exchange that you can go to as an individual or as a small business, and choose from a menu of health plans coupled with tax credits and affordability credit so it attaches to you rather than just attaching to the job. that is something important that we tried to set up, in order for students to get health care

coverage and for people who are on their room and do not have luxury right now of having employer-based programs. but we also need to be clear that we're going to deal with a system that is predominantly employer-based. if you like to health care you of that, keep it. now what is going to change that. that is what we're trying to do. -- no one is going to change that. that is what we're trying to do. >> i am here in wisconsin. i know if you are talking about -- if the federal government takes control of this system, how was any insurance company going to compete with that? the insurance company, it will wipe right out. you cannot sit there and say that if you like it, you can keep it. once this happens, it is gone.

it is gone. i can tell you right now how you can fix a lot of these problems. we've got a president that said he was going to scrap these bills clean of any waste. did that happen? >> no. >> joe biden was going to do that and he was the tiger. look out for joe biden. well, forget about joe biden. if you want to fix this problem, if you take a plane load of these midwestern people who actually got common sense, fly them to washington and have been going through these bills and it will fix it. -- and have them going through these bills and they will fix it. >> my name is jay, self- employed since i was 25 years

old, and my insurance premiums have gone up 170%, i would be caught in now instead of doing that. my premiums have gone up 870% because i am an individual. i have health insurance for all of my employees. it is prohibited just have insurance for myself. -- prohibitive just have answers for myself. [unintelligible] -- just to have insurance for myself. [unintelligible] there was an article last month that said that if you are 65 and retiring in 2009, if you need 2000 -- you need to hundred $40,000 in the bank just to

cover health insurance for the balance of your life after your social security. that scares me enough that i quit giving to charities and quit taking political controversy -- quit making political contributions. [applause] >> that is the last one. well, on that note, thank you. and help me in thanking dick miller, at doing a wonderful job in moderating. thank you both for being here. [applause] most of all, i want to thank all of you. i know how busy people are in for this type of turnout for at topic as important and fundamental about where our children -- where our country is going, it is astounding. the exchange was civil and respectful. this goes to the heart of it and i truly believe this -- as a nation we have to figure out a way to come together in this

type of format and other performance and listen to one another. i am sure that by doing more of that and having at least enough trust in one another and working hard to find common ground, maybe together we can solve some of the challenges we can -- we are facing as a nation and the people together. i will keep an open door. you know how to read me. i will be having more forums of this nature because it is important that you points be heard, that ideas be shared, and find some common ground on how to do it. i will be around for little bit. we can have a personal conversation but i want to thank you all again, and thank the law enforcement for moving the crowd along. they did a wonderful job. thanks, everyone. >> we continue our look at the health-care debate tonight on c- span.

in a moment, north carolina congressman patrick mchenry talks to his constituents. after that, i talked at k-- a tk at the ronrand corporation. >> tomorrow morning's "washington journal." gary johnson on the cia iowa -- allegations. a review of the study on stimulus money given the schools. an author barry ritholtz, on his book, "bailout nation." >> go inside the supreme court to see the public places and is rarely seen spaces. hear directly from the justices as they provide their insight about the court and the building. "the supreme court, was " on to

america's highest court, the first sunday in october on c- span. >> now north carolina congressman patrick mchenry all the town hall meeting to discuss proposed health care legislation. from cherryville, n.c., this is about two hours. >> the mayor has that might stand a little high. tonight. it's always great to be home. i represent ten counties across western north carolina, but this is where i'm from. this is where i was raised. so it's good to be at home. and i'm glad you all came out tonight. last year we had a town haul meeting and we had 19 people show up. and so you and the first two rows would cover it all.

i try to keep in constant contact about what's happening in washington and what i'm doing. and so town halls seem to me to be a great way to get this exchange of ideas. and that's really, after all, what this is all about. isn't it? ideas and the kind of government that we're going to have. and so tonight i appreciate you all coming out. and i've got a few issues on my mind and i know you have issues on your minds. how many have health care on your minds? please raise your hands. ok. almost all of you. i want to begin with sort of what's happening in washington

and i want to talk about three issues. first, back at the beginning of the year we saw the economy tanking at the end of last year. here in western north carolina we've seen this coming for quite a while. we've had our struggling ways with loss of textile and manufacturing jobs. textile and furniture have been severely hit. and so i voted against unfair trade agreements which i thought would do the wrong things for our jobs. but i've also favored policies that were going to help us. and what i saw at the beginning of the year was the need for a real stimulus bill that would have a real impact helping small business. and what i saw washington do is go in the exact opposite direction. they came up with a $787 billion sfluss plan which i believe has been a failure. now, the pledge was that if we passed this stimulus plan, unemployment would cap out at

8%. we're now approaching 10% nationally and about 15%, a little over, here in our county. now, the stimulus plan has failed. the plan i supported would have created more jobs at half the price. it would have helped fund basic infrastructure like roads and bridges while at the same time helping small businesses keep those employees that they have employed and perhaps even hiring a few other people through tax credits. that plan would have done much better than what we've seen over the last six months. and it was just six months and a week ago that stimulus bill was passed. it's very expensive and i think the wrong direction. secondly, i want to mention cap and trade. this piece of legislation was passed in congress at the end of june. this bill as many refer to it as cap and tax or a national energy tax, out of concern for the environment they wanted to pass this bill and they passed it out of the house.

well, i care about the environment as well. i want to make sure that we have a wonderful quality of life, clean water, and clean air. absolutely. but we live in a large globe, and so we have to make sure other countries are with us as well and they're participating in trying to clean up our air. well, this cap and trade bill would cost $1,400 per year per family in increased energy bills. now, this is not my number, it's the congressional budget office's number. and that number originates from a congressional budget office that's headed by a democrat and that democrat was appointed by two democrats. so certainly it's not a biased number. that $1,400 per year is what m.i.t. calls low on the cost here. m.i.t. says it will cost more than twice that amount per family per year. my concern is that we have the wrong approach for cleaning up our environment. i think we need to use our existing resources and our

existing revenue that is we get off of oil, natural gas and coal which most of those ar% @@ those of the things that we on, we should get those natural resources that we have here in this country to be energy independent, but at the same time we can use those resources and those funds to find alternative research, clean power that is efficient, right? the next generation of technology. those are the things that will clean up our environment over the long term. furthermore, if you look at what china is doing, according to the president's energy secretary, china will emit more carbon into our atmosphere over the next 30 years than the united states has admitted since we were founded. ink about that staggering sum. so we share the globe with them. we need to make sure that they participate as well.

we can't simply pass energy policies that hurt manufacturing and hurt our economy while at the same time allowing our competitors like china and india to pollute freely at a lower cost basis for energy. so we need to look at policies and see what's constructive, efficient, and effective. so when i'm telling you about these first two policies, the stimulus bill and cap and trade, i can tell you what i'm against. but i also am going to tell you tonight what i'm for. and so i know you've got questions about the third issue i want to mention, health care. how many think that hk doesn't need any changes or any type of reform whatsoever? please raise your hands. i always say there's one in the crowd. how many think that we've got to do something about health care but the approach is what thearts? i share your concern that

reform for the sake of reform, action for the sake of action is not right. touf make sure you do it right, not just quickly. and so what we've seen out of washington is their intent to act quickly, and i think in a way that's flawed. so as i told you, i'll tell you what i'm for and what i'm against. let me begin with what i'm against. this is h.r. 32 00, the house version of the president's health care plan. 1,018 pages. i can tell you what i'm against. i'm against this plan. now, i'll tell you why. and i know you're going to have questions about it. thank you.

do we have consensus on this as well? i've not completed reading it but i'm reading it right now. i promise we'll get to your questions. so tonight i'll tell you what i'm glens. and there are large components of this bill that are flawed. there's one area of this bill that's actually constructive and good and i'll tell you that area. first, i don't think insurance companies should be able to discriminate against individuals if they have a preexisting condition. so within this bill contains that component of legislation. i think that's good. and i think you should be able to move from insurance company to insurance company regardless of your medical condition or if you have challenges that you're facing with your health care. i think that helps with competition as well, because then we can actually have more choices if we move jobs or lose our job or try to go out and create our own business we're able to take our health care with us, portability. so that one component of

eliminating the discrimination against preexisting condition is good. ok? very little else in here is constructive and good for our health care or good for our choices. i will also tell you what the plan is that i'm for. and i'll just mention very briefly what that is. i think we need to have medical mall practice reform to cap law suits and control out of control law suits that we have now. [applause] i think we also need to have association health plans so small businesses can ban band together and negotiate with insurance companies. why can't the cheryville chamber of commerce negotiate for a dozen or 50 businesses that are in the area? right? to negotiate for a larger risk pool like that means that you can actually get a better deal out of the insurance cuts and

lower rates. beyond that, i think we need to be able to@@@@@@@@@ u,@ ! there are other elements to it but you have other questions. tonight, i want to be very organized. i wanna make sure the rest of the world sees how people in western north carolina at entry each other. tonight i am not going ask you to be polite to me or respectful to me. i work for you. all right? you can treat me how you like. [applause] could be courteous to the rest in the crowd, our neighbors that are here tonight. programs some young people that are here for a town hall meeting for the first time. if you could be respectful to them in your language and tone. and if people stand up and

they're asking questions, please be respectful of their opinion. we all have our own opinions on health care. but if we could respect one another's opinions regardless of whether or not we believe what they're saying is true or right or whatever, i think that would help too. so if we can show the world how town hall meetings are done in the south, that might help a good bit. so tonight, if you have a question you would like to ask, if you will line up either behind austin or behind billy, they have the microphones. if you'll line up there if you have a question we'll try to get to everybody's question in the best way possible. if you keep your question to a question or comment you can line up now if you'd like. thank you. if this is blocking people's views, i certainly understand but this is the most efficient way we've found to have

questions or comments. if you could keep your comment to a single issue or your question to a single issue, that would be very helpful. and if you could keep it to under a minute, that would be great as well. so, anyway, we've covered a good bit of territory thus far and so we'll open up to questions now. right over here, if you'll say your name and where you're from. >> bob smits. cherryville. >> great. >> what are we going to do about securing our borders and the 12 to 15 million foreign nationals living in this country illegally whom we're educating, we're medicating, and housing a lot of them? we need to identify them and deport them. [applause] >> thank you so much for the question. it's a great question. we must have secure borders. we have to have internal enforcement here of our immigration laws.

a great nation should know who is within their borders. it's a matter of national security and in this time economic security. and so we need to know who is here. i've sponsored legislation, it's a bipartisan piece of legislation written by congressman shure up in nashville. it's called the save act which has real internal enforcement and does it the way i think would make you proud. the fact is if you break the law to get in this country you're not going to respect the law once you're here. it doesn't mean that we don't welcome immigrants. actually, our ancestors were welcomed here. but you have to make sure you do it the right way, the legal way. and we need to make sure the process works and at the same time that we have real border security. that's what i'm fighting for. unfortunately, the challenge in the united states house of representatives is the speaker of the house doesn't share our perspective on this matter. so we have to make sure that we get good people in office that are going to do the right thing for border security and all

these other issues. thank you for raising the question. yes, sir. >> my name is chuck cost anywhere. i just want to make a comment about the situation with the health care. last august my dad went into the hospital, found out on monday he needed a triple buy pass surgery. he's been doing fine ever since. the condition he was in, he didn't have six weeks to wait on a cardiologist it wasn't going to happen. six weeks later he wouldn't have been here. from what i've seen of other countries, and i'm talking about the u.k. and canada mostly it would have been a minimum of six weeks. from there they would have made him an appointment. and they know, last fall i'm not a member but i know a guy that is or was, any how, and they were talking about they're basically putting people on lists knowing they'll never live long enough to get the surgeries. i don't know if anybody that's for this thing thinks they're

going to be exempt from that kind of treatment but you're not. this is going to be a disaster n/á'4 just like you were talking about, keeping it in simple terms like going across state lines. if you have a lot of horses, we would get together and say this is the price we're going to set. a salmon that you could not go out to get horseshoes, if you are stuck with that. -- assuming that you are stuck with that. the people -- if it shot across the state line, you think it's your health care insurance lower. he could be 50% or 67% lower. it is simple planes like that. on any level, that is controlled. yet they are -- if you are letting them control your health

care, they have got to, plain and simple. we need more freedom. -- they had thought you -- have got you, plain and simple. gentleman said is, well, he's a fairier, so good horse sense is what they say. right? but the idea that you have competition, that's what we need to instill in this current marketplace we have. and we can maintain state based regulation of insurance, but we should be able to go across state lines. the constitution says the congress has the authority to regulate interstate commerce. well, last time i checked, i could go buy a simple product across the stateline, i could go buy a car down in south carolina. why can't i go get insurance from south carolina or any other state? different states have different mandates on their health care from minimums of care.

that may mean longer hospital stays but it costs you more money. why don't you have a variety of plans that you could actually choose from across state lines and have real competition? insurance companies don't want that competition. after all, north carolina more than half of the insurance marketplace is controlled by one entity. soy called not for profit called blue cross, blue shield of north carolina. they don't want to have to compete against blue cross/blue shield of another state. they don't want to have that competition. and the thing is, with more competition we the consumers, the patients, win. thank you, sir. i appreciate it. yes, sir. say your name and where you're from. >> walter kim belle. gasten county. first a comment your statement sir that you work for us. it seems to me watching many of the media accounts from across the country that some of your colleagues have forgotten that they work for us.

now, on to my question. it has two parts. first of all, if the plan is as wonderful as it's supposed to be, why are the members of congress apparently not going to be par taking in that plan is is the first part. and the second part has to do with the time line. why are we trying to pass this overreaching legislation which basically will affect er american in less time than it's taken for the president to pick out a dog for the white house? those are my questions, sir. [applause] >> i think they agree with you. great point. i'm a co-sponsor of resolution that says if you vote for it, you're enrolled in it. would you all agree?

congress must be under the same laws as the people that they represent. and under this -- [applause] and the rush to action is a great concern. how many of you all logged on to the internet and actually pulled up the legislative text of h.r. 32 00? raise your hand. hold your hands up. that is amazing. now, how many of you would normally go on line and look at legislative text? ok, we've got three or four. there are a couple of you. but the fact is that we've got a whole group of people looking at legislation for the first time to make a judgment for themselves. there's certain components of this bill that have been explained by other people but you want to look at it and judge for yours.

and there's one section in particular that rather than telling you what i think about it, i'll just read the@@@@@@@ rr the point out would make is that an active and engaged citizenry, actively engaged in their government and making sure that outlaws and congress and the general assembly here in north carolina at his passing, makes for a better end product of legislation. i want to hear my feedback from constituents. that is why i have town hall meetings. not because one group or green -- agreeing or disagreeing, but to hear from your constituents. i will wrap up and go to the next question. absolutely. >> my name is gary mims. i've been involved in health care for 30 years. i provide different types of care, i'm responsible for sen call centers. i see patients every day, i

deal with insurers, physicians, nurses, a lot of different people. ict you i can tell you the perspective of the care givers. neither side of the aisle looks really good right now. it looks if you have a car the brakes don't work, the democrats want to throw the car away and buy a helicopters. and the republicans want to say let the free market decide whether or not we need brakes. a reasonable person would say take the car to the mechanic and let him fix the brakes. too often i'm hearing, and the reason i believe that neither side has a good handle on this is because what i'm hearing on the news from both sides is it's as if you're listening to lobbyists and politicians to make these decisions. i don't believe that enough emphasis is going to the care givers, to the physicians and the people at the bed side, things like every hospital has an ethics committee.

we've discussed this. and, believe me, the kind of feedback we get from you gentlemen, it's hard to believe that you're really getting information from reasonable sources. and i know i'm insulting some of the conservatives in here but i'm also insulting the liberals at the same time. i just don't believe that true care givers are having that much input into some of this discussion. >> so what's your input as a care giver? you know, if you're saying that input is needed from a care giver, and that's your point, my question to you would be, what do you want to see? >> what i'd like to see are people who do hands-on care actually being involved in the process, whether it's setting up committees, setting up commissions, whatever, people who are there who can answer some of the questions.

for instance, i'll give you one thing. we've all heard about the death panels. right? ok. you and i have a mutual friend an on congs in gas tonia he is on the committee. speak to him about end of life decisions. they're not this horrible thing that is you're hearing from the right and they're certainly not some of the things that you're hearing from the left what we should be doing. they're reasonable ways to deal with end of life decisions. unless you're at the bedside it's difficult to hear that. >> what's your practice? >> certified clinical exercise special list. >> i appreciate your input are you in my district? >> yes, sir. >> i just want to make sure you get my communications on this. and we've tried to communicate the best we can to the medical community. so to touch on this, we get the

government that we elect. it's true. and i would tell you that republicans are my party is in the minority in congress right now based on the fact that the american people spoke at the last election. i understand that. but my constituents spoke and put me into office to make these decisions as well and simply because the majority is different doesn't mean that i stop acting on behalf of my constituents. what i would tell you about health care is that there is a way to get a reasonable bipartisan compromise. there is. and in terms of you saying republicans this and democrats this, i would like you to hear me out tonight and hear what i would like to do for health care. and i talk to providers all the time. and that dunno, you of how had a so- called adult panel element,,

all the underlying brain bath -- a free hot and read it, section 1233, there is a hot theory it has enormous latitude on the actions that you can take. which is more effective? i would say the current panel of experts on a local basis that make these very difficult judgments. and the fact that we have a state medical board that oversees doctors is very strong, good, and appropriate. . in terms of input, the american medical association has been

bought off and it is in favor of this deal. i say they have been bought off, and that is my language -- pardon me. the ama and phrma are actually in favor of this. in favor of this. yes, local doctors are not ama on this bill. they think that the so-called public option is the wrong direction and will hurt. hurt but i think you're right. there needs to be better input. you need to use the incubator of the states were you have real change in public policy. you need to use those ideas and take a measured approach to fixing the brakes on that car, not throwing away. the away thank you for your comments. [applause] yes, sir? >> my name is jim and i am from

kings mountain. i have a comment. myself and some have talked to have lost all dressed in congress and the senate. we believe as an example that the 1000-page document is contrived so that they can hide things from the public, that they can shoot through at a moment's notice without anyone knowing what is in there. i think that from time to time when you put your foot on that stack of papers, i think that is where belongs. you should kick it off the stage and get it out of here. >> thank you. and i would tell you that we have the ability to elect four people to the federal government. one member of congress, the two

senators, and the president. you get the vice-president thrown in for free. but those four offices that we elect directly, we need to make sure they're held accountable, meaning he mails, phone calls, letters. talk to me at the grocer's store. that is part of the whole process. we have to hold elected officials accountable and take ownership for the government. >> patrick from cherryville. i will be brief. most of the people i talked to are definitely in favor of things such as lower taxes, less crime, economic development, and a sound basis of education. we know that your commitment to our constitutional guarantees is there. but are you as astounded as most at the level of the budget

deficits and national debt that we are insulating our children with? actually, members of congress and those whose son budgets are enslaving our children to an ungodly amount of debt. >> your representatives are you. you have to make your voice heard and make sure that you let people who are in keeping with your philosophy and what you want from government. i am astounded by the massive debt washington has occurred. we have a debt that rivals european standards of indebtedness for government. that is the wrong approach. so far this year we have a $1.20 trillion deficit in washington. at the end of the year in two months, september 30, that will be $1.80 trillion. the highest before this year was

about $500 billion under the last president. thissa there is a difference between how drunken sailors to spend money and how congress spends money. the only difference is, a drunken sailors actually spend their own money. [applause] so rather than having a 1.3 trillion dollar bill here that is going to run a massive deficits every year, from the moment it is implemented after the next election, that deficit

is going to be enormous and difficult for us to contend with. i will tell you that if you look back over the debate on medicare 40 years ago, the budget analysis was that medicare would cost $10 billion to $20 billion. it currently costs about $110 billion a year. so they get it wrong. i do not think we can afford to get it wrong with one seventh of our economy. yes, deborah from cherryville. i would like to know the status of the un convention to the right to the child and what can we do to defeated? >> i'm concerned about it as well. if we can get your contact information we can tell you exactly where we are in the process because i cannot give you the details right now.

i'm concerned about the limitation on the ability of parents to raise children as they see fit. we will follow up with you afterwards. thank you for raising the issue. yes, ma'am? " yes, hi. i am mary from cherryville. speaker pelosi's said that we will borrow $500 billion from social security to help fund the health plan. and also that the health plan was a self-sustaining plan. how do you feel about that? >> it would be great if it were. it would be better than now. it would be far less bad than is now. but the congressional budget office run by democrats has scored the bill and analyzed its cost. over the next 10 years ago cost

$1.30 trillion. there will be a deficit in that even though they have raised a lot of taxes. they have been individual tax based on enrollees in health insurance. that goes for everyone, regardless of income. there are a number of taxes in here and it still does not balance. the fact about social security is that we have taken a lot of money out of its to fund other government issues. it is not right. we need to put the money back. [applause] yes, sir? >> thank you for being here today and allowing us to come to express ourselves. i'm scott and i live in shelby, north carolina.

first of all, we had it this debate back in 1993, 1994. we were assured by the republican party that competition would take its course and solve our medical insurance and issues. since then i have seen my premiums with my employer one year 2004, to those of five increased by 100%. and every year since then it has gone up. co-pays have gone up. we have probably gone through four or five different insurance companies. when my first child was born we received a bill for that that was outrageous. the insurance company paid far less than what was billed for

that procedure. recently i was hospitalized for one@@@@@@@@@@ @ @ @ @ @ with hospital stay and doctors and what not. so i have become concerned about, first of all, what our doctors and hospitals charging white is not the true cost of the state of the visit, and that is one issue. the other is, i will just -- i guess i am leaning towards the single-pay public. ultimately, we have to put our hands together. , why can't we figure out this issue? if you will suffer me one more

thing -- i was first registered at age 18 as a republican, strong supporter of ronald reagan and all of his theology or philosophy. but since then the republican party has lost me. i am now a registered independent. it is for such things as this -- if you can look at the enormous and ridiculous salaries and other compensation of high- ranking and management executives in the u.s. and global corporations, in addition to those who are on their boards of directors, getting their stock options, one thing after the other. it is no wonder that they cannot afford to pay the common man a good and decent, reasonable salary.

and so, they are taking all the gains for themselves and asking more for taxpayers, paid for ultimately by the taxes paid for by me and you, and their genius, education, and credentials, bring us all to ruin. think of the following examples of corporations who cannot do any wrong, especially by the conservative point of view. enron, tyco, arthur anderson, gm, chrysler, ford, merrill lynch, wachovia, bear stearns, aig, exxon, the whole valdez fiasco.

we talk about the inefficiencies of government and our enormous deficits. as of october last year, our country had committed itself to something like 7.7 trillion dollars, with all of the baliol's -- bailouts. i just want to ask, do we not ever consider, yes, there is waste and fraud in government. we need to give more attention to the waste and fraud in business and the burden it causes. >> thank you. i appreciate your comments. i share your concern about waste and fraud, and abuse, wherever it is.

you in washington and overseas. your taxpayer overseas so, it is not my business to be in your business. [applause] look, i voted against all those bailouts. i thought it was the wrong direction. [applause] but when companies succeed or fail it affects those people who are making decisions for their company, the people who invest in them. that is held the system works. that is held the system works. i do not want to see government controlling business. chrysler and gm, the government bailed them out and now you talk about chrysler increasing jobs in mexico to produce the out. that is not an investment in

america. it is not that i do g@@@@@ @ @ r but the difference is, when private enterprise fails, it choice to invest in thatmade the company and to those people that are leading the company, as it should. but when the government fails, it just goes back in your wallet and takes more from you. i am trying to limit that. i understand your concern and desire for a single payer system. but i disagree. when government gets involved in business, it does not do it more efficiently, or with less paperwork or fraud or waste. you can find a number of

examples of companies that fit. but because i'm a republican, depending on me as a republican is not responsible, either. >> will you explain to me the nafta treaty? it says we trade with other countries. no, sir. it is a permanent treaty. >> the congressman over here was inside the vote on this. i thought it came up for renewal. >> that was in 1994 and the

congressman has been now for quite a while. he has been out since 1998. >> was it concord, i like that congressman? >> that is a different tree. what is your question? >> i want to know about the nafta trade. it is good to trade, but you can't have more coming in then what is going not. you blame labor interests going overseas the county and state taxed them and they have to play unemployment insurance and workers' comp. there are thousands of dollars on some working the textiles. we need manufacturing jobs. you have a lot of people who cannot work up there on the roads and what you're putting money into. you're putting a lot of the illegals out there.

how many million dollars have you put into north carolina? co-op insurance -- roosevelt set them up in the 1930's. r.e.a. is working my good. in the 1950's, the governor wanted the telephone system in north carolina. you either run the funds out into the rural area or we will form a co-ops, and suddenly the telephone companies got busy. it has been mentioned about though co-op insurance -- i have insurance, but is really working on my pocketbook. if my social security does not jump up by $50 per year, before long my insurance will be more.

but i do not have to pay anything my good to the doctor or hospital. . but i am paying a one thing else -- this proposal -- how with a grown man think of something like that? i went through the 1980's and i did not go along with it in the dairy industry. i was a ronald reagan man. he had two programs the pic, and another. it did not work. now we have those clocker program -- the clocker per room, and they -- the cash for clunkers program, and they said they're buying the foreign cars. 35 million people on food stamps. i'm not critical. but that is alarming. before long it will be 50

million because people will start hurting out there and you're politicians up there in @@@@@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @u you aren't going to get problems and a couple of months and people cannot make car payments. about co-ops, the idea that we have a co-op, the government option -- it just depends how we construct it. if the government browne co op is basically equivalent to a government run insurance program, that is not the right way to go. go. social security will go bankrupt starting in 2013. medicare in 2019. we have two major programs that

are important to seniors and not sustainable currently. we need to look skeptically at the government expanding further into the real economy, especially when we have enough government programs to clean up already. in these terms i would say it is a little better. in reference to the phone companies, when we deregulated the companies and have a number of different providers, your long distance rates came we down. now you can get long distance for a few cents per minute. so, the private sector can create enormous good for competition. we have to do this properly and incentivize the competition and a real way that is effective.

to make sure that you have competition for societal good under health care. competition drove down the price. yes, sir? yes, sir? >> one thing that has fallen into the background here is something that we're still at war. we have in this quagmire in the middle east for at least the past eight years. we have spent hundreds of billions of dollars. we're still losing two to three servicemen a day. what is our strategy? are we attempting to annex afghanistan? what is our way out? >> that is a very good question, a very serious question.

in iraq, the surge had an enormous benefit in terms of getting violence down to lower rates. we have seen huge violence today and over the last few days in iraq. that war is for the iraqis to bear the burden of. we have gotten to the point with iraq where it now becomes their duty as iraqis. we have trained the military, we have a federal government up and running, multiple elections that have taken place. they need to take ownership of their democracy and do the best to keep it. now what you see with a large scale attacks that occurred, it has been the iraqis that have borne the greater rent of the burden in dealing with the violence. american troops -- we have pulled out of most major cities,

and that is good. we need to make sure we get our man and women home safely, securely, and soon, and the iraqis need to bear the expense. when it comes to afghanistan, the insurgency in afghanistan, whatever you want to call them, al qaeda, whatever terrorist group there, they are largely funded out of the heroin trade, the poppy fields in southern afghanistan. we have had multinational troops in there. one of the problems is they will not fight so we are bearing the brunt of the burden, and we need to quickly get that turned over to those in afghanistan to bear

that burden. unfortunately, the government there has major problems. the government, as i said, is largely -- they are largely not doing their job with the safe areas, the equivalent of local police saying, we are not going to go into neighborhoods where there is violence, and there is a lot of that happening in afghanistan. they are trying to keep the elements that worked in iraq, and some of those elements can work. but i have got a great deal of concern about making americans deal with the brunt of this issue when it should be afghanistan.

unfortunately, while in iraq there was a notion of government historically, in afghanistan it has been largely and governed. in terms under the previous president and under this president, it is for the presidents and military leaders to set policy and goals and for congress to fund them. as a matter of public policy i will make sure that we find our troops on the battlefield regardless of whether or not i agree with the president. [applause] i appreciate your raising the

issue. there is not a simple answer. you are exactly right. >> my name is leon and i live in your district in cleveland county. if this health care plan does pass, what changes will have on the way the veterans now receive hospitalization and healthcare? >> thank you for serving. that is a great question. we are still trying to go through the scenarios by which different groups are affected. one area i have concern is for veterans with tri-care, those getting their care through the v.a. system. i have worked hard to get the veterans clinic open but a closer location then nashville.

i am still trying to figure out how veterans are affected through this them. it does not appear that veterans would be adversely affected. i want to make sure the details are correct. are correct. so we are still working on that. we will be happy to contact you when we find out for certain how ventris will be affected or if there are unintended consequences of this bill. thank you. i have a comment to make. thank you for your conservative leadership in washington. [applause] we have had a congress that has spent money like jon edwards in a the shop.

>> i'm glad that you only made? edwards jet. >> working in small business, it will take leadership that is not left or right. when you get back to washington i would like you to tell nancy pelosi and mr. harry reid that we can take all the money and put it into health care and it will not fix the problem until we put investment into prevention and wellness, that will drive costs down. i have a friend at duke university next week for cancer treatment. treatment. we are as i see it, most americans value life, and we value the life of one as it represents us all. i value the leadership you have and i know you will be leader of

the pack to stop the train wreck of our health-care system, and i thank you. [applause] >> thank you. every health care reform has to include wallace and prevention. going to get a physical every year to detect problems before they become serious. the health care provider earlier made the analogy to getting your brakes replaced in the car. when you get your oil changed, they check the brakes, they check the tires, so you cannot have a blowout. the idea is we should do the same for health care. but this does not address wellness programs at all. when you talk to good businesses, they talk about well as programs for their employees. and businesses are able to do that and get a lot of benefits out of it. it would be far better to detect

a small problem early on that a big problem very late in the process. i think you're absolutely right. well this has to be something we all take seriously. our health, how we eat, how we exercise, is very serious and we should take it very seriously. is my eighth town hall meeting this year. when we get done it is late in the evening. i'm forced to do what many of us are -- go to a drive-n. -- i'm sorry, a drive-thru. to pick up some food. after one town hall meeting i got done talking about welness programs and the right and there was so hungry and chick-fil-a will still open and i opened a number one -- and i ordered a number one combo with a diet

coke and they ask me for one did a biggie size and i said, of course. i finished eating all that and it hit me like a ton of bricks. that was dumb. so, it is something that we all struggle with. it is something that we can control and i think that we should. yes, sir? >> i am norman and i live here in cherryville. i would like for you to take a little bit of stimulus money and put it better seats in this auditorium. [laughter] >> as in no, three months ago this auditorium did not have air-conditioning. -- as if you know. we're grateful. >> and i know that the seats

will come. this will sound dumb to you, but i called your office and asked for some members. through them i learned that about 1.4 citizens of north carolina are under medicaid. >> mm-hmm. >> why can we not just medicaid enough to take care of those people who now do not have insurance? now, of course, i do not want to see the illegals considered. there are a lot who do not now have insurance who do not want insurance. it will not leave a big number of those who could not change

the rules to put them into medicare. your job would be done and we can all go home. >> about medicaid -- the plan would support and do support is written by senator richard written by senator richard burke, that bill this bill will give all americans using existing government revenue medicare, medicaid, all that we find health programs with. and we will give everyone a tax credit using those existing revenues. we can actually give all americans a $3,000 to $4,000 tax credit to buy health insurance. it basically functions on your tax form, so all americans would

get that amount of money to buy health insurance. it would be in the private market, so they could buy insurance for themselves. the what a catastrophic plan, a savings plan? they can make those decisions by themselves. furthermore, you would not have those issues with the gentleman before about medicare. everyone would be in the private insurance marketplace, and most americans would be able to buy out of that tax credit. there are some we need to provide for. we have to compare -- take care among the least among us. but the vast majority of us can actually get into the private marketplace. this would get younger,

healthier people into the insurance market. 60% of the uninsured in this country are under the age of 35. if you are over the age of 35, just remember, under 35, you never thought you would get sick or anything bad would happen to you. so a lot of these people do not want to buy because they do not think they need it. there are also people who are either laid off or without work or cannot simply afford to buy health insurance. we need to make sure they have access to it, and we can do that for existing government revenue streams. beyond that, it would fix medicare and medicaid and our liabilities and deficits 20, 30, 40 years out from now, based on the fact we give people individual control. and that is the plan i support. thank you. [applause]

>> hello. i want to thank you for being so committed to the people in your district. but i would like to know what happened in the 1960's when billions of dollars were taken out of social security funds, never put back to start all of these free programs. if you go to the bank and borrow money, you have to pay it back, right? well, social security would not be in the shape it is in now if that money had been paid back. the second thing is, veterans are the backbone of our country. they have made this country what it was. they are being forgotten. they are being pushed to the side. something needs to be done there. >> absolutely. and you are right. when we have a young man or woman who fights for our freedom, we have to honor our commitment to them when they come home, and that means the best benefits and health care in

the world. that is what i support. [applause] it was not just in the 1960's when congress rob social security to pay for other things. they have been doing it ever since. we need to make sure that social security is taken off budget. i do not want to use this term lock box, but the idea is, you take away from politicians hams, make it whole, and then we can talk about reforming a for the next generation to make sure we made whole those at or near retirement. but workers right now, to make sure they are able to make a benefit, not simply pay into it. so that social security for folks in a 30's and 20's and younger may look different than what we have now. but we need to make sure we have generational fairness, and that begins with making sure there

are no changes and no cuts to seniors receiving benefits right now. thank you. >> according to homeland security, i am one of the biggest threats to the world, because i'm against everything. look at me. i don't think so. >> he says it with a smile. he couldn't be such a bad guy. >> i was reading obama's web page, and they want money because doctors are stupid, they are cheats and crooks and elderly patients are also stupid because they just need to call the nurse and say they have a problem, and they will tell them

to go home and feel better. i love nurses, but i want a doctor to look at me and say, here is your problem. i do not what hmo. i am laid off because of the auto industry. i pay for my wife insurance, but she does not have insurance. i do not want that policy. the second and mother or father cries over a body in a coffin, we give them the reason to believe, do not come back. that way, and the soldier does not die for nothing. i would hate to cry because my soldier was in the grave. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. thank you. you are right. that is why we need to see these

things through, to make sure we achieve that goal, to make sure the goal is achievable and achieve the goal, and our american fighting men and women can achieve any goal. but the politicians do not need to muck it up. they need to get out of our way and make sure that those men and women can fight the fight and get it back. and get them home. absolutely. yes. health care, in terms of pre- existing conditions, i think you should be able to get health insurance rather than being discriminated against, even if it was 10 years ago. the fact is, our current system does not address that, and this current bill does not address that either, unfortunately. i want to make sure that everyone has access to make health care choices for themselves. i would much rather you make your decision with your family,

the nurse or the doctor you are seeing, and that discussion between you and them, not with any member of congress. so could you trust more? congress, or your doctor? i would hope the doctor. >> hello. thank you for being here and for giving so generously of your time for all of us here. my name is pearl floyd and dawn rep for this district, and i am happy to be here with you tonight as a citizen. my concern also revolves around health care, and as a health- care professional with 30 year'' experience in cancer detection, it hit home. because as i look at the individuals who come through my laboratory, they are very concerned. when they come to have tests

drawn, they want to know what is going to happen with me, and that is a great chart you have, talking about what happens in socialized medicine with luring the survival rates, which means we live longer in the united states because we put the technology at our disposal to use. even though we may have been dealt an unfavorable card. so my question to you, congressman, is how do we as citizens in district 110 and elsewhere, how do we live healthier, happier lives? >> thank you. i know it is quite a task in a challenge with the overall

economy and struggles we have had their. i have a chart explaining cancer survival rates. i thought we would have town hall meetings like last year where it would be 10 of us in a circle and i could answer everybody's questions tent * -- 10 times. prostate cancer, after five years, 91% of americans survive. 85% in canada survive. in all of europe, 57% survive. in england, where we have a single payer system just like canada and france and many countries in europe, there's a

50.9 survival rate. when people talk about health care, this is what i talk about. real lives. we have all been touched by cancer. if not personally, those of us in our family. so if you look get survival rates, 82.5% in canada, europe, 73%, great britain, 69.8%. and you can look get all of the cancers. i have this chart on my web site, if you would like to printed out for yourself. and we have reference points here. so you can go look at where we get this data. survival rates are not affected

by our access to health care. it is expensive and flawed, are better with -- event -- but far better than the single payer option which includes a long line, fewer choices, and you have rationing of health care. when the decision comes to whether you get your care, it does not come down to the cost for the taxpayer. i do not want to be an elected official in that system. so what we can do to maintain

freedom of choice is coming out to these town hall meetings. i do not know if we have a total on the attendance -- 232 people. last year it was 19. we have had close to 4500 people come out so far to town hall meetings. last year, we had a total of about 400 for a turnout. you can see people who care about this, you can hear it in people's voices tonight by the fact that they're sitting here in what the gentleman said was hard chairs. people being out and engage, writing me, emailing me, taking phone calls, these things do matter, and you can make your voice heard not just to me,

through our president. the point is, an active citizenry makes all the difference in the world. hold officials accountable, it means we can express our opinions ourselves. that matters in a big way, and i'm glad the citizens are active and engaged in making their voices heard. where there is heat, there's fire. where there is smoke, there is flame. this august has been rather hot for those advocating for this plan. the reason why is because we have people reading the bill. we have people making decisions for themselves, doing research on whether or not this is the best approach.

the consensus is not for the plan. three weeks ago, the approval rating on health care and his plan for a net positive. now they are in net negative. three weeks. these meetings are a leading public opinion, rather than following it. the fact you are turning out makes a difference. is there a consistent -- consensus against this plan in this room? [applause] therefore, am i representing your perspective? >> yes. [applause] >> first of all, i wanted to thank you for being so acceptable. we appreciated very much.

i am one of those people that has read a good portion of the bill. at many different times to my eyes to glaze over. there are things i want to talk about. this is called the "america's affordable health choices act for 2009." on page one, it states that the purpose of the bill is to provide affordable, quality health care for all americans. my question, this covers a big

territory. also, on page 29, they talk about cost-sharing levels. on page 59, i am quoting, electronic funds transfer in order to allow automated reconciliation with the health care payment and remittance advice. rep mccann ray, i never thought i would have to ask this, and correct me if i miss reading this -- when did the government think they have the right to go in to my bank account. [applause] also, as a side option, we should not be calling a public option. this is the government option. no way around it.

>> this has come up a couple of times, about access to your bank. that is a concern. we're still seeing how that is done operational in under this legislation. i appreciate your bringing it to everyone's attention, reading the bill, and been engaged. i share the same concerns you have about the government accessing either your medical records or your bank account, absolutely. >> i worry about this. this is supposed to be a free country. >> elections have consequences. we tell this to our kids -- there are consequences to your actions. as adults, we sometimes forget that. but our republic form of

government, our republic form of democracy, means we elect officials that we support their focus and their actions. if we do not support those actions, we made a big choice -- the wrong choice. people need to get engaged, make their voices heard, and make sure that we have people doing the right thing in government. thank you. i've got two other charts to reference, and i am sorry they are not large enough for the crowd on my website. we have a chart in the front row -- if you could tell the folks in the back row. it does not matter. you cannot even understand it on the front row or if you could get into the details. it is very complex. but we also have another chart

from the lewin group. they do health care research. they have researched this bill and the public option. what he said in your question is that it is the government auction. unfortunately, it is only an option in the beginning. then is the only option. if you say the only, it makes it not an option. so what happens is that the health care commissioner determines what plan, what health insurance plan can be offered in this national exchange which we have to buy out. ok? they also determine what the public plan or government option is. therefore, if the referee is wearing a carolina panthers jersey, do you think he will be

an unbiased referee of the football game? let's think practically. if your kid is on the baseball team, you cannot be a fair referee. commissioner, they can certainly have the plan for the government option. based on how this bill operates the onus is on the individual, not the business. so, individuals will have to purchase it. under this plan, 119 million americans will not be offered health insurance by their existing business. they will be dropped. that does not make the government auctioned a good one. it makes it more likely outcome -- and does not make the government option a good one.

i oppose this bill for the same reason that barney frank supports this bill. he said "i support a public option because of a good public option will lead to a single- payer system which i support." he certainly has sound reasoning, basic math. i come to the same conclusion except that i do not want the federal government having a single-payer system. >> my name is eric. i appreciate your being here. let me ask you a possibly a loaded question. i'm curious as to where the republicans have gone? outside the offox news and conservative talk-radio i do not really hear from our side telling us the truth.

i voted for people to represent me. we saw that a bipartisan presidential candidate, john mccain, lost an election. that gets us nowhere. i do not believe the opposing side is interested in getting. along i believe they are interested in taking. never is there a single source release can send money to help people like you and others -- i believe they're interested in taking over. there are elected officials such as borne a friend. you were trying to ask him a question on the house floor. -- such as barney frank. nancy pelosi said that she need a jet on friday. she decided she would not take the trip. that is a waste. >> it is cheaper than taking her

on the trip. >> chris dodd participated in a fever through countrywide mortgage. he and barney frank were instrumental in increasing the mortgage debacle we have been the big almost everything was fine. on the flip side, they said if you do not loan is money we will audit you. this includes illegal aliens. why are people who are doing illegal things, the president overstepping the constitution by appointingczars -- [applause] by. seen -- by appointing czars that do not have to go before the senate committee to be

allowed to. if people do not stand up and shout that this is wrong, against the constitution -- i want to hear from other people besides just fox news and talk rita. whether or not people like sarah whether or not people like sarah palin, she is michael steele does not stand for what i believe in. i believe he is not doing the job he should be doing. if that is a matter of fact you need money to have commercials or radio ads, whatever -- if there was a single source where i could send my money and they could be used