inform people of the truth -- obama told a specifically what he would do to our country, and he is doing it. people are sitting by, wondering why this is happening. he is doing exactly what he said he would do. i wanted broadcast around the nation for everybody who does not come to town halls to hear. >> first of all, the president is not doing what he said in his campaign. if i can finish here, i will tell you. he did not say, "i will raise your taxes." he said that his tax cut would cut taxes for more people, only taxing the rich. he did not say, "i am going to raise your taxes."

. . it means if you move jobs, you cannot keep your plan. if you get laid off, you cannot keep your plan.

simply this is not what he said during the campaign. what i would tell you about the republican party, there is a debate about where the party is going. i have been a strong advocate for change. change in the direction for relying on the republican core principles. right and wrong in terms of our goals and values. strong enough to talk about issues that we don't normally talk about. talk about health care and education. talk about the reforms you want for your family. to stand up and say, i am an advocate for small business, not to go along with the big business agenda in washington, but to stand up for local folks and communicate with them -- in a way they can relate to.

i am on facebook and winter. i would encourage you to go to my facebook or twister side twisteriwittetwitter site. you have to hold these people accountable once you elect them. if you want to have a political discussion after that, i would be happy to do that. but i don't want to sit here and talk that campaign stuff. i can do that on my own personal time. thank you for coming out. i appreciate it. yes sir? >> de que congressman. i am from kings mountain.

president john kennedy asked us to do what we could for our country. i just wanted to say, what about anybody 30 or younger is no benefit from social security, we will still pay into it and we will still contribute. if you are at a certain age after a certain time you just don't get any benefits. we will not see it anyway. at least a note but i want leave my kids with the same thing. as 30 you are at the age were you can work and set up on your own retirement.

you have plenty of years, you have years for mutual-fund and retirement accounts. i want to present you with that idea and see what you thought about it. i don't mind sacrificing it. >> how about this? your employer pays 6.2% for social security and you pay 6.2% of your cellar for social security tax. 12.4%. how about 80 the employer's share and continue to put that into the system, about four younger workers, you of to opt out of that plan and have more of a 401k type of plan. still, a government rule -- regulated entity. if you would have -- and the retired federal employees here? yes ma'am.

are you on the thrift savings plan? >> yes. how about the thrift savings plan for the rest of society? you have some options for basically a mutual fund, very safe. you take your personal 6.2% and put it into that, still regulated by the government, still participate in the system, but younkers working people would -- younger people would go into that system. you give up half your social sturdy -- security tax to try to even this out for the generation that is getting close to retirement while at the same time givg younger workers a similar benefit. and the end -- in the end, based on the market over 30 or 50 years, we have had a very bad

source here right now. but for a number workers it is better. >> social security will be horrible by that time. thank you for much. >> thank you for stepping up and for being here tonight. >> i wanted to tell a horror story about a government health care. i am in the military, and i should get the best health care there is. during the first golf score i want into gimmickry -- marine corps in 1971 and i spend -- spent time in the gulf war. i got injured. they sent me to the hospital and the doctor there told me --

they x-rated and you cannot see most of x-rays and away. he said you tore a muscle and isn't anything you can do about it. well i was a firefighter. it had me upset. they sent me to another clinic and the doctors are there said there is a much you can do about it. you'll have to live with that and i thought i will lose everything i have worked for. there's nothing to be done. they sent me to shot air force base for therapy and the doctor said, we can't do anything about it, we you just have to live with it. my wife is a nurse, and she

looked at me, she finally saw me getting a little bit mental and she said, we are going to reduce something for you or you lose your mind. she got me an appointment to see a civilian doctor. i went to see him and he looked at me and he said, this can be fixed. it he said it should have been fixed when it happened over one month ago when it happened. i went back after he tell me this i want back to the clinic and i told the clinic that i have some you'll fix me and i want him to do it and that we need to do it now. they tell me to go home and they would call and see what they could do for me.

they called me an hour after i got home and they told me to pack my bag. they said they found a doctor down in texas and he will do the surgery. i got a little upset and i said what do you mean, you just found a doctor? i have been screaming for you all to do something and now that i found a doctor that can fix it, all of a sudden you can find somebody to fix it. they said -- i said, i trust this man and i want this meant to do it. they told me, if you don't let the stock to do it, we will pay for it. so guess who had to pay for their own in the line of duty military injury?

i did. it cost me to pay for my injury, to get me back to work on the fire department. if that is government health care come i don't want any of it. >> thank you. >> i am really glad to >> i am not an expert. i do not have the most scholarly question for you. o you want to make your health-care decision, your congressman or your health care -- or your congressman? of course i want your health care professional. i can't go see my doctor because

i have a $200 deductible. why are we so willing to let private health insurance companies, who are profiting from our money, taking our money and not giving us the services we need so they can make a profit, why are we so willing to go along with that option and not the government option? while i don't like the idea of anyone millie in my health care, knowing that the health insurance co. who is taking money out of my pocket and putting it into there's makes me much more nervous than the other scenario. i mean no disrespect, but when i hear a senator byrd who has always responded to my e-mail -- when i hear about this plant he has proposed to allow people to buy private health insurance and

you look at the millions of dollars he has accepted from the health-care industry, it gives me pause. i just wanted to make that comment. i know this is an unpopular opinion in this room but i wanted to have a chance to say it. maybe you can explain why i should be more willing to put my health care in a for-profit system as opposed to the government. >> thank you for coming and expressing your opinion. in terms of a discussion about senator byrd, he is not here to defend himself. i understand your concern. and the idea insurance companies are profiting, it gives a lot of people prospered in understand

that. the largest insurer in north carolina is a not-for-profit, blue cross blue shield. they are not for profit. there is what is called retained earnings -- exactly. it is not that i support the health-care industry at all. that is not the intent. i am looking for a better delivery system. the better delivery system is where we can all save tax free. first, you have to set have money. it can be part of an answer, held savings accounts can be part of an answer, that means you pay less to the insurance company and we become consumers to health-care like we are consumers of other products and services that we have and that is far better than what we already have going. health insurance is expensive.

a lot of people in our community would be grateful to have a plan that you have. that is not to diminish your point at all. @@@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ h @ @ @ @ @ @ we can bring out profits have of the system and get better product offerings because of competition the example i would say is the same example that the president said. it is ups vs fedex to versus the united states postal service. now we have choices. that is fine. the postal service before fedex and ups. so it is a little different than this government plan.

, because we now have a private delivery mechanism for health- care, and the government would get in and basically create a postal service. i don't think this is healthy. i would look at medicare as an example. medicare costs $110 billion per year to the taxpayers. that was 1991 or 1993 number. we are talking about one-third of our budget being consumed by medicare. it is not sustainable. if we are expanding that type of health-care offering from the taxpayers, it will bankrupt the system and not simply lead to higher taxes, but a morse unsustainable health care system, local hospitals and patience and doctors.

i want to achieve what everybody wants to achieve, which is universal health-care coverage, and do it in the eight -- and affordable means. i want to incentivize competition. thank you for coming out. we are coming down to the short rose. we have the last three here. >> i have been a cpa for 39 years. i want to address a few things. we need health care reform. but this trash you have up there needs to be booted off the stage. this is a fiasco. that is one of the first bills

that i thought i could not be written as stupid as the irs code but this is. >> not to interrupt, but it is interesting to listen to you because i have read these news reports about these angry mobs at town hall meetings. and you said that with a smile. >> i will not stand up here and yell at you. let's get down to specifics. from health care back years ago, being a cpa, and a national organization. we had group plans back then. we went out, we got the plant and it was great for the group. that way you can compete with wal-mart. if we don't do toward reform, let's go back to where the profit began. when we ended up with malpractice insurance -- i have

clients who are getting their tails gleaned over malpractice insurance. the insurance companies will make a profit weather is blue cross blue shield not for profit or a profitable entity. if we don't get toward reform specifically the numbers say between 1-4% of the cost of medical care is because it is malpractice i will use john edwards to make a point. how can a man as young as he was completely retire from malpractice lawsuits. he did not sell for one thing as far as health issues. toward reform has got to be a part of it. we have to have groups. any group can do a better job than the federal government can do on anything. if i think we have to have the congress and the federal government will be part of any health-care plan, the far -- the

fox will be guarding the hen house. government knows best. we have been sent a bill of goods for years. social security is flat broke. that is the bigger issue than health care. the person who made the statement about czars, is it constitutional that they can answer to no one and they are making policy decisions? somebody needs to get a hold of it in question it. i am very concerned. i have always been taught that

90% of the solution to any problem is having enough sense to recognize the problem. we can fix what we have. but to tear it apart and throw away is ridiculous. [applause] >> it is the one good thing to come of the bill is short being engaged and in your government, but i am glad they offered it. the citizens need to be engaged and involved in their government, from city, county, state, federal, all levels, to make sure we people who are accountable and doing the right thing. about they czars, the president has the authority to hire and fire his own staff. that is out it runs.

-- this is how it runs. the confirmation process for cabinet agency has. their report to the secretary of treasury, the department of defense, these were created by congress through block. the confirmation process -- i am just restating this to show you my line of reasoning. the president recommends and the senate confirms these has a different agencies and they have powers granted to those agencies by an act of congress and by law. they are also not accountable to just a precedent, but to the people's representatives on capitol hill. therefore, these czars are collecting a paycheck without having any power, or if they have power, there circumventing

federal law. i can demand hearings on this in september. the chairman of the oversight and reform committee is not intent on investigating this matter. i would like to ask them some questions. do you have any power? they can say yes or no. macy's, then there circumcision -- circumventing federal law. -- if it is yes, then they are circumventing federal law. amen to the rest of your statement as well. thank you. >> i think i am going to have to change the subject. i am an educator.

i am the assistant principal at davis medal. one of the thing that educators are worried about is no child left behind. my comment is that say for instance our school has 500 of the students. we did not make our annual proficiency because we had won a subgroup -- 40 kids that were not up to par. i would like to see some revisions of that. i would also like to call your attention to, and maybe it is a state bank, but our funding here has really been hurting. we need to run our schools, and that has everything to do with the health care of our children. i just wanted to make those

comments. >> thank you. education is vital. i was not in congress when they voted on notes of left behind, but i would have voted against it. -- on that no child left behind. if you're sitting behind a desk in washington, your average seller in the department of education is $92,000 a year. the national average for a teacher's salary is $47,000 a year, half of what they're getting in washington. they don't educate people up there. the money we're spending in washington in education is not getting to the schools, to the classrooms or it needs to bay. no child of bind is redundant based on what we have here in north carolina and the

accountability we already have here in north carolina. education should be a state and local issue. the federal funds we have, rather than putting people behind desks and paying their salary, we need to get the money down locally, back to the states. >> just another comment, we are not afraid of accountability in education. but there should be some fairness to it as well. >> the accountability that we have in north carolina is good. no child left behind -- the governor of texas who look at education reforms across the country and and decided that testing and accountability was good so they implemented it in texas.

that plan was based off of the north carolina plant -- plan. when the governor of texas became president, he made that the national model. well we are have it here in north carolina. it is redundant and expensive. good teachers are always in favor of accountability. i appreciate you coming out as saying your peace. we have two more left. >> i would like to say that i am proud to call you my congressman. my question for you is that we spoke about a lot of things tonight. by biggest fear is that we live in the greatest country in the world right now. this president, this administration, and your opposition in congress is steering this country to the

left. i want to make sure the my children and grandchildren are left in a country that i love will still be around. what can we do that besides voting? >> that is being engaged in the political process. but also following what is happening in washington, what is happening in raleigh and what is happening with our local government and making sure we hold our election officials accountable between elections. we cannot be active every other november november on a tuesday. that active engaged citizenry it means you have to be involved in

every step of the process. with the power of the internet, following someone on facebook, supporting your agenda and perspective, that helps significantly. the intent is to leave the next generation better off in this country than the country we found. that has always got to be our intent. we have to be mindful about that. when i vote in congress, i think about what it will do to the next generation. how it will impact them in terms of the indebtedness of this country in terms of our economy, in terms of our health care and our choices. thank you. thank you for coming out. is this your first town hall meeting? >> no. >> had been involved before then?

>> ok. glad you're involved. final question of the night? @@@@@@@@@ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @ @& >> i am a republican and a veteran and apparently on the watch list. mr. president, i did not vote for you, nor will i ever. [applause] thank you. i have lived through roughly 10 presidents. i remember world war ii. i grew up in the shadow that. my family served this country. my family went all the way back to serve in the american revolution and in the civil war 's side of the family has

been here since the 1700's. we have relatives to sit up for the flag, which i did. i am sadly disappointed when the president runs around the country and world apologizing for our country. >> i love applause. i live in the u.k. for three years. i was in the military. i witnessed their health care system. it is horrible. a friend of mine almost died. he had an accident. they transported him to a british hospital, a severe trauma, internal injuries. they said oh a bloody yankee. they didn't do anything and three days later the air force came and got him and he had emergency surgery.

it left a lot of resentment. i saw the results of the health care, the average wage was about $25 a week. the unemployment was about the same part. the black market flourished, that is because taxes at that time, basically the communists are in control and taxes or a rage as. -- were outrageous. when they so proudly put a tax on cigarettes, they should have checked to see how many trucks were hijacked in the united states and how many sigrid curtains fall of the back door. that happens when you raise taxes. i work for government and myself so i know government.

he is not a government person, he is and elected official. some of these people who were for the government, and i work for one of the most corrupt states in the united states. it was not n.c.. it was the six borough of new york. it is a very corrupt state. the people stole and did not do their jobs. it was hard. they have what's called a medicaid taxi for those that are ill. they take you to doctors. these taxes would take people to the liquor store coming to the 711 and all these different places. that is billed back to the government and it comes out of your tax dollars. the fraud and waste of the government creates is unreal. ice stood up for that flag, i guarded your country. do not let me down.

do not let me down. do not let my brothers down. those that died. friends of mine died protecting your country and protecting that flag. do not let this government run all over you like they are doing. stand up for the constitution. listen to these people. we are all in agreement, we have some basic things we don't like. stand up for that flag. thank you. [applause] >> thank you for coming out and think before serving. -- and thank you for serving. >> i have a couple of comments i

would like to make. this quote is from nikita khrushchev made back in the 1960's. the title of this comment was the road to communism. you americans are so gullible, you will not accept communism out right, but we keep feeding a small doses of socialism until you finally wake up and find out you are the have communism. we will weaken your economy until you fall like overripe fruit in your hands. the way i look at it we have a one-party rule. this country reminds me of russia, china, north korea, venezuela. the way our country is headed right now, we will be on that

list. need i say more about that comment? the next comment, we may need to take better care of our troops. in case of war that are being called to serve. i think we are in war right now. some are on their third and fourth tour. i know the draft w the near red.

-- somewhere in that neighborhood. >> thank you for coming out tonight. thank you for your comments. i appreciate you all coming out tonight. this is a record turned out. except for this year, the highest turn out i have had for a town hall meeting was one and 78 people. and that was in a much bigger town. for us to have was the total number? two hundred 57 tonight is significant. and i appreciate you coming out to keep your voice heard. people should be engaged in

owning their government, and engage in what happened to their government. people make their voices heard. when it comes to health care there is consensus against the president's plan. it does not mean we are not in favor of health-care reform but we need it to be rational. so we can save tax free for health insurance events, so we have more options for health care and small businesses can band together and negotiate their rates. that we can actually have a medical malpractice reform, that government getting further involved will not help the matter but make matters worse. these thinks -- these things, rather than weakening things, you have strengthened it me to go back and make my spine a lot

stronger to go back in september and fight this proposal, and to stand up for our district. thank you for coming out and making your voices heard. god bless you all. one final thing, i want to think of the jury -- cherryville fire department, who up to put this event on tonight. thank you so much and god bless.

>> more discussion on health care will be tomorrow on c-span. congressman jim moran hosts a town hall meeting with former chairman jim dean. >> rising health-care costs are impeding the growth of health- care services across the country. that is next here on c-span. after that, wrong kind holds a town hall meeting on health care -- after that representative ron kind hold the town hall meeting on health care.

>> tomorrow, there is a discussion on the role of immigration and other so-called wedge issues in modern politics. e.j. dionne is one of the panelists. live coverage begins at noon eastern. later in the day, we will get an update on the presidential election in afghanistan that was held last week. official results have yet to be released. a new report links the growth of medical costs with adverse economic conditions. next, we will hear from an economist with the rand corp. who talks about how labor costs, employment, and productivity are being affected.

this is about 40 minutes. >> today's briefing is the second in a two-part red series on health care costs. it is very timely. it is only part of a boarder -- of a larger body of research. many people know about the research that the red corp. does and the variety of areas -- that the rand corp. does and the variety of areas.

many articles are germane to the issues that will be considered again this fall. as you know, for the past two decades, the growth in health care costs has outpaced the growth in the gross domestic product. in today's briefing, you will hear about a first of its kind steady that linked the rapid growth of health-care costs to- economic consequences -- to negative economic consequences. today's presenter is dr. neeraj sood. he recently became a tenured associate professor at the university of southern california.

he is the faculty research fellow at the national bureau of economic research. his research has focused on the economics of it innovation, hiv and aids policy, and health care financing. this is one of his current projects focusing on health economics and health policy with an emphasis on the role of price regulation and the life insurance markets and the effects of provider reimbursement on [unintelligible] i will now turn it over to dr. neeraj sood. >> thank you everybody for coming to the briefing today. a lot of you would have heard that the president and other observers have said that, as far as health care is concerned, the status quo is unsustainable. a lot of people think that rising health-care costs, which is part of the status quo, and of the predominance of employer-

sponsored insurance is part of the u.s. economy. let's start with the two well- known facts. first -- ok, this works now appeared the first one is that health-care costs have been rising rapidly. since 1987, we spend about 8.10% of gdp on health care. in 2007, we spent about 16.2% of gdp on health care. why this is happening is because health-care costs have been rising faster than gdp growth, which is the blue occurred. the red line, the annual percentage change in health care costs, has always been above the blue line, the annual change in

gdp and a change in income. the other fact is that most of us who have insurance have employer-provided insurance. there is a small minority that has insurance through the private individual market. we have rising health-care costs and the predominance of employer-sponsored insurance. i will start with a concept. how should we think of these two facts? how would they affected the economic performance of the industry? which industries would be hardest hit by rising health- care costs? i am going to use data from

about 38 different industries in the u.s. i will analyze the data to see empirically what we find over the last 20 years. finally, i am going to look at some areas and stimulate what will happen if health care costs continue to grow. there are two opposing views. one is the business view or the one the uc among policy-makers and popular media. as health-care costs row, the health insurance premiums grow. as health insurance premiums broka, employers face a higher t to hire employees. if the cost of hiring workers goes up, then they have to hire

fewer workers. either output will go down or employers will try to recoup these costs by raising prices, which could affect the competitiveness of u.s. industries. by contrast, there is the view of standard economic theories. if health care costs and grew, health insurance premiums grow up. but then employers reduce wages by exactly the same amount as the health insurance premium. so the cost of hiring workers remains the same. overall, labor costs remain the same. if labor costs remain the same, then there is no burden on the employer. therefore, there should be no effect on the u.s. industries. which one of these views might be right? one hypothesis is that the business of you might be right if you think that wages are

sticky. first, if you are paying someone already at the minimum wage, even when health insurance premiums go up, you cannot reduce the wage beyond the mandated minimum wage. the other might be that several industries have either long-term contracts with their unions or they have long-term contracts with individual workers. given these long-term contracts, which specify a certain benefit package and certain compensation, it will be difficult to change the contracts, at least in the short or immediate run. when they hire people and awful them -- and offer them certain benefits, they have a contract with their workers. they pass a -- if they pass a huge burden to the workers, it

can affect worker health or worker morale. there is some evidence in the literature. there is a paper by two harvard economist who found that, if you increase health insurance premiums or costs by 10%, there is a real effect on employment. at the same time, these employers try to pass some of the cost to the workers. so their wages decline by about 2.3% could even the shifting of the costs to workers shows an effect on employment. david cutler found that, when health insurance costs go up, what employers do is, since they bear some of the burden, they make their existing workers with

health insurance work harder rather than hiring new workers for whom they would have to provide insurance. again, you find that insured workers are working harder and overtime and employers are not hiring new workers. but none of the prior studies have looked at how these effects vary across the different industries. none of them have gone beyond looking at employment and wages. we are going to examine the effects of rising health-care costs on different industries, including output and employment and important outcomes. if you provide insurance to a large fraction of your workers, when health insurance premiums go up, your labor costs will rise more rapidly. therefore, those industries that

provide insurance to their workers will be hit hardest by rising health-care costs. on the of their extreme, industries that provide insurance to a very small fraction of the workers, even if health insurance premiums go up, nothing happens to the labor costs. only a few workers have employee-sponsored insurance. rising health-care costs will have little effect on those industries that provide insurance to a small fraction of their workers. we're going to look at whether this hypothesis is true empirically. we're going to use data from 1987 and a look at to primary and comes -- and look at two primary outcomes. we will also look at output as represented by total sales in each industry. there is the difference between the red line and the blue line. the difference between health

care cost growth and the growth of gdp. we are going to run a variety of statistical models to identify the link between an employee- sponsored insurance, rising health-care costs, and employee output. we're going to look out to the year 2017 where we know that health care costs will be 20% of gdp. the projection is that we will be spending one fifth of our gdp on health care. let's look at the raw data. each point on this graph is an industry. the x factor is the percentage of workers with employer- sponsored insurance in 1986. on the y axis, that is the and the percentage change of

employment during 1987 to 2005, a time when we know that health care costs were rising rapidly. the highlighted point in blue is the construction industry. about 42.8% of the workers had employer-sponsored insurance. the industry grew about 2.1% when health-care costs were rising rapidly. if you look at hotels, they provided insurance to about 54% of their workers and they grew more slowly, at with employment at about 1%. finally, we have utilities. they provided insurance to about 85% of their workers and them instead of going to mug this industry actually contracted at a rate of 2.8%.

this tells us that there is a negative relationship between employer-sponsored insurance during the time that health care costs were rising rapidly. there is a strong negative relationship between employer- sponsored insurance and growth and output during the time when health care costs were rising rapidly. some of you might wonder how much of this graph or how much of this relationship is truly employer-sponsored insurance versus some other factors across industries. there might be, for example, differences in labor productivity trends. maybe that is what is driving the disparate performance. would we are going to do is try to control for all of these

potential factors, which could be trends in labor productivity, immunization, or differences in international competition faced by different industries, or the differences in timing of the business cycle. some might argue that some industries are leading industries and their business cycle is different than other industries in the economy we're going to investigate this by running multi-regressions or by using canadian data. the canadian data it is testing because they do not have employer-sponsored insurance. but they do have the same industries. using canadian data may help us to determine specific factors. when we run the multi-very regressions, we control for

differences in immunization and we control for any time-bearing differences across the different sectors of the economy there could be changes in innovation, trends and technologies, trends in business cycles, and any other cycle and varying performances. even after controlling for this variety of factors, our basic results remain unchanged. we still find industries with high percentage of workers with employer-sponsored insurance are hardest hit by rising health- care costs. now let's move to the canadian data. we find that, in the u.s., those industries that provide insurance to a large fraction of their workers, for example, utilities grew more slowly. if you find the same pattern in canada, that which does not

have employer-sponsored insurance, it grew less faster than construction and hotels. then we know that it is not driven by employer-sponsored insurance. if you find the same pattern of results in canada, then the most likely explanation is that the correlation between employer-sponsored insurance and economic performance of these industries are not that industries with high percentage of workers with employer- sponsored insurance are the ones that are hardest hit by rising health-care costs. we have data from canada from 16 different industries. i have repeated the chart that i should you earlier. each point on this graph is still an industry on the u.s..

on the x axis, that is the percentage of workers with employer-sponsored insurance. again, there is a strong negative relationship in the u.s. now i'm going to take away the u.s. data and introduced the canadian data appeared the question is will we see the same pattern in canada. the answer is no point. -- the answer is no. there is a strong relationship in the u.s. and no relationship in canada. that suggests that if it is driven by the rise in health- care costs. given these results, how do we interpret the magnitude? how big is this a fact?

-- how big is this effect? i am going to move to the year 2017. we will see how, going from 16% to 20% of gdp on health care, it affects the industries. let's start with the status quo. .

>> if health care costs account for 20% of gdp. these are pretty sizable fax. -- a sizable effect -- these are pretty sizable seeffects. their share in the economy is going to increase. in conclusion, what we find is that the status quo is

predominance of employed sponsored -- employer sponsored insurance. these industries that provide employer sponsored employers are hit -- sponsored insurance, of the questions now. >> i know the results speak for themselves, but what effect will this have on the health care reform efforts? >> i cannot predict what effect this will have on health care reform efforts. what this establishes is that there is a need for health care reform. this establishes that the status quo is hurting the economic performance of u.s. industries. given the weak economy that we have right now, the importance

for health care reform is even larger for even bigger. there is some urgency to health care reform, given that we have a weakened economy right now. what effect it will virtually have, i wish i could predict that. >> could you would for the microphone? >> -- could you wait for the microphone? >> if you compare businesses and firms to one another instead of across industries? >> what is a very good question. that is what i plan to do as an extent in this research. within an industry, on what to look at employers with cafeteria plans and see the trade-off.

this cafeteria plan basically says i'm going to give you a total compensation package and let the workers decide how much they want to allocate to insurance and how much they want to allocate to cash wages. we will look at the same plan. we will see whether these results workout. my hope is that these results will hold up. they did not change when we looked at a variety of factors and did not see the same pattern of results in canada. i think that this is a natural extension of this research. i hope to see it coming in a few months. >> can you put the last slide back up? yes, about one. -- about one. one message i seem to be getting from that slide are that the

skill energy is -- one group that has been worried about health care reform or workers in those skilled industries. if there is one message that we can give them, and you have to help me if i am misinterpreting the data, that fixing this would help the more in some ways. is that a fair assumption -- a fair interpretation of your data? >> that is a fair interpretation of the data. industries -- will still have a system where there is employee sponsored insurance. given these two facts, it is true that industries that provide insurance to a large number of workers, they are the ones that will benefit the most. >> i have to admit to being a

pointy headed economist. i am not persuaded if you will. the time frame between 2000 and 2005, you have health care cost increases and stability in the early '90s, not having read the paper, i did not know what the exact productivity measures are, but in utilities, you have got a lot of additional computerization. you expect to see falling employment. people are doing a lot more with a lot less. productivity is up, employment is down. that is natural. there are too many other things that i do not know or controlled. i'd look at this from a different perspective.

-- i do not know are controlled. i look at this from a different perspective. i do not know what it was like before the mid 90's, but from the mid-90s, onward, average cost for health benefits is a proportion of compensation and it has been fairly stable. in fact, fringe benefits other than health care have been going up and wages have been going up. i am back into your basic economic theory. people are being paid for productivity and productivity is going up, then it may show up in health care changes. you have a very crude measure which is health care costs over gdp costs. the fact that health care costs are rising, that means that it has to be going faster but it is still a relatively small share it is certainly a smaller share

back in 1987. i started in 1982. i am unpersuaded. it is not that it is impossible, but even with the committee in comparison, if you took out that one chart, the slopes are sort of the same. you said it is a robust relationship. there is a correlation there, i did not know. there is a lot of variation. >> i agree that this presentation was not geared toward pointy headed economists. i think that one concern your wrist -- you raised, i see where they are and i have heard the pope for.

-- heard them before. whether regression -- what aggression -- what regression allowance does this allow for that. -- is allowed for that. -- is allowed for th for that. in addition to that, there are differences in unionization and labor productivity. the results remain unchanged. i agree that there could still be other factors which we have seen dr the results. that is one to go to the canadian data which is a catchall for other industry factors. given that those effects can have an effect on the u.s. gives

me more confidence in the results. look within industries and look at employers in those industries and put one more nail in the coffin. that is the next up that i planned to take three do you look at average from size? >> in the united states, it is the big firms that have the much higher offer rates and take up rates. i personally do not know that much about the non-held parts of the economy. -- non-health parts of the economy. i don't expect it to the regional effects, but there might. you have the same sort of thing. you know that the autos are big

and i think utilities tend to have high employment. >> these are controls for any time did we have and industry fixed effect. there are changes in size with correlated with employees sponsored insurance and it is correlated with economic outcomes in those industries. there could be a laundry list of those possibilities. given the canadian data, and given the results remain unchanged, we tried alternate measures of health-care cost growth and the bottom line was the same. that yielded the same results. a lot of that was in the paper and is not in the presentation, here.

>> i appreciate the research. i would suggest that in addition to companies within industries, i think it would be useful to look at exactly what jobs are gained and lost. employers provide insurance for their employees because their employees demand it. the reason that the professional jobs have more employer provided insurance, if your to hire enough skilled professional who has leverage in the work force, you have to pay them more than the minimum wage. you have to provide them competitive benefits with them there. -- within theire.

in those industries, what you have is some of the lower skilled jobs that used to be in house are now outsourced. there contractors do not have benefits. -- there are contractors that do not have benefits. they're not want to stay at this company forever. they are working this job. the other thing seems to be a decline since the early '80s. this is an apprenticeship program and employers want skilled professionals working in the door. they do not hire them run out of school and train them up. perhaps some of that is a reflection of the benefit cost

of hiring people during a training. -- during a time of training. instead of laying people off and started over again when the economy improves, even in the industries where there is job gain or job loss, intuitively, it seems that the professionals are maintaining. some employers would be easier to replace folks and they are either being outsourced or losing their benefits. >> i agree. i think that the objective of this study was to look at bigger aggregate outcomes, but what happens to employment, what

happens to value added. i agree that once this step is established, you have to look at the second level and at what employers are doing. some are producing high deductible health care. some are losing jobs to the service industry and others are trying to reduce wage growth. despite all these efforts, there is a real effect at the aggregate level in terms of employment output. it is important to look at the second layer of the facts. -- of the fax -- of a faeffects.

workers to want to hold on to their health insurance, so demand is still inelastic. they have less money left for dental insurance and their retirement plan and for cash wages. those might have long term a effects. i agree that there are a whole variety of a fax through which you might see these effects itch i should pursue in the future. >> obviously, i would be interested to see, in economic theory, the effects should be greater in the trade sensitive industries. on the utilities, i cannot buy

more water and sewer from china. but you can buy a foreign-made car. there are some things that are more sensitive to u.s. costs of and then for the costs. there are other factors involved, but they are not as sensitive to market. >> that is a good point. i agree that it is possible that some industries might have different effects. industries that face more international competition or more substitute are ones where a raise the price would have a big effect. there is some evidence of this in san francisco.

the kid up with a plan were all employers were supposed to provide health insurance at the restaurants in san francisco. they started charging a surcharge for health insurance premiums. it did not effect the number of people coming to the restaurants because they were local monopolies and all restaurants had to -- have the surcharge. -- had the surcharge. in some areas it might be easier to push towards workers and other industries, it might be more difficult to do that. please look for the microphone. >> clearly, rising health-care costs for business, but in some way it seems that your making

-- you don't lose your health care at the same time. are you making an argument for something like medicare for all? if that is not politically feasible, but how do we tease apart what comprises rising health-care costs which we seem to take as a given. some of it is over utilization by providers and patients, but what about the prices charged by insurance companies, makers of medical machinery, as long as workers retirements are dependent on rising share prices of these corporate players, and we expect their prices to ever be moderate? what i am argui>> what i am argf

you reduce health-care costs, it will affect several industries. do you want a diverse insurance from employers? that is a much more complicated question. that question -- to answer that question, we need to find out what the potential cost of that alternative would be. if he moved to a publicly financed system, you might need to raise taxes and then you need to figure out what the effect of raising taxes on the economy is. to answer that question is very difficult. what this says is if you can control health care costs, that will affect the economy. if you divorce health insurance from the employer, that is a more difficult question to answer there might be

alternatives that are better and there might be alternatives that are worse. that is something that this research does not answer. >>so, i think there are no more questions. thank you very much for coming here. [applause] >> as the debate over health care continues, c-span's

healthcare hub is a key resource. go on line and follow along. watch town hall meetings and share your thoughts on the issue with your own citizen video. there is more. that is that c-span.org/ healthcare. >> over the summer, members of congress have been holding meetings with constituents in their districts. these meetings have focused on health care legislation that congress is working on. tonight, wisconsin representative ron kind. then the white house briefing and in russia's military. >> on tomorrow morning's

"washington journal," reporter carrie johnson. also, daniel domenech will review a study on stimulus money given to schools. and author barry ritholtz. that is at 7:00 a.m. eastern with your calls. >> how is c-span funded? what's private donations? >> taxpayers? >> donations. >> i don't know where the money comes from. >> federal aid? >> contributions from donors. >> america's cable companies created spent as a public service. no government mandate, no government money. what's now, democratic representative ron and kind

takes questions from constituents. from whitehall i school in white hall, wisconsin. this is about 90 minutes. >> the purpose of today's meeting is try to get some feedback and get some suggestions on the health-care system that we have in the country. we will have kind of a lottery system where numbers will be called. if you have the number, you can, to one of the microphones and there will be a time limits to get through as much -- as many people as possible. i think it will be carried out will hold up a 32nd signed. if there is something of a more personal nature, i will be around for a while, so you can come up to me in a little bit. i also want to think the

superintendent and principal for opening up the high school in this auditorium. it was very generous for them to do that. for those of you who have been to some of my previous sessions, we usually do not generate as much attention or as big a crowd. we had to move to a larger forum and the principle was kind enough to open this up. i also want to thank the police chief for helping me with crowd control and richard anderson and other law enforcement personnel that work, the of to help move people along. we have with us today, dick miller who is the county board share. >> vice chair. >> the vice chair, i am sorry. i thank him for being here. he has been a business owner

here for over 30 years. he was kind enough to offer to moderate. we also have sued comrade who is a registered nurse for over 36 years and she has insight on the health care system. in a second, i will have her say a few remarks. i have found in previous forms of this magnitude, that we have to have the ability, as a nation, to come together and listen to each other and act in a civil and respectful manner so that we can hear what each of us are thinking and the various ideas that are out there. even in the family, you're not want to be in complete agreement with your family members. hopefully that is what this will bring out. i understand that the passions

run deep on the subject, and why not? it is incredibly important that we deal with the health-care system and try to find some improvements to it so that it works for all of us. let me turn this over to dick to have him listen the pledge of allegiance. -- to have him leave us in the pledge of allegiance. >> i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which stance. one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> i would like to welcome the congressman to whitehall. we appreciate him being here today. we have an opportunity to share our questions and/or comments.

if i may, please refer to the sheets that you were handed when you came in. i just want to reiterate that democracy works best and listen to everyone. the first thing is that no posters or signs are to be present in the building. everyone will respect each other. no disruptions while you are speaking. there will be no talking over each other. everyone will have -- bozell wanted to speak to about a she when they came in. there is a lottery. my guess is that if you are able to be brief in your comments, probably more will be heard. just bear that in mind. there is a 2 minute limit.

there is a warning. the other thing is that when two minutes is up, somebody is going to pinch me and i will say that time is up. thank you. bucs obviously, we will not be able to get to everyone, but we have these informational sheets so that if you have a comment or question or idea, you can fill that out and submit it. you can also contact my office to have input, too. we really do want to hear from all of you. i also want to thank state rep jeff smith. thank you for being here. as well as state rep chris. thank you for coming. a lot of the focus has been on

congress and what they're trying to do with health care reform, they have been working in madison of the far as the state of health care. i thank you both for being here. with that, let me turn it over to sue for some introductory remarks that may stimulate some discussion. she is a 36 year registered nurse with a lot of experience in the health-care system. >> thank-you, ron. good morning everybody. glad to see so many faces here. one of the things that we all agree on is that we do need reform in the health-care system. honestly, i have difficulty: the health care. as ron said, i have had 36 years in the system and i have watched the system go from being a doctor/patient relationship to

being an insurance company/patient relationship. i do not believe that that is what we deserve in the united states. [applause] there are some elements of this major reform that most of us can agree on. we need insurance market reform. we need for there not to be pre- existing condition exclusions. if you start a new job, and you have diabetes, you may not be able to get health insurance through your new employer. we need to have no artificial premium hikes based on illness. if you have health insurance and you get sick and you develop high blood pressure or heart condition, in some conditions, your insurance premium goes up for your deductible goes up. we knew affordability for

everyone. what we are seeing more and more of the is that more and more people are underinsured. they have high deductibles. they have horrendously high premiums and those can and often to go up every year. we need basic comprehensive benefits. we need to make this health care, not medical care. one of the things i have often heard is the way to live a long life in the united states is to take -- is to develop a chronic disease and take care of it. we should be able to live a long life by staying healthy and our system must enable us to do that. we need to expand coverage to everyone. there are many people -- we have

quality health care that is comparative in cost. unfortunately, that is not true all over. despite the fact that the boats start within m, if you have a heart attack in miami, the cost will be 10 times as much as it is in marshfield and he will get the exact same care -- you get the exact same care. needs to be covered -- it needs to be coverage for everyone. again, we need to be able to be healthy. we need delivery and payment reform. there are significant cost savings that exist without rationing, without increasing any other costs to the taxpayers. we spend enough money now on the

cost of people who are uninsured who go to the emergency or urgent care because if those people are uninsured, they will wait until they cannot wait any longer to go win. by then, it's far past time where we can care for that problem cost effectively. those costs are then passed on to those of us who have insurance or who are paying our own bills. there are major disparities, as we have talked about. in efficiency and quality care -- we need to have the same quality of care nationwide. we are lucky to have quality care here. in my current position as an theres consultant, i travel around the united states. i know that that is not true

everywhere. finally, we know that we need reform. the thing is, we need it now. our current system is unsustainable and it is failing fast. it is very much like a sinking ship. personally, i do not want to be one of those people that is in charge of that show, decided who the people are that are going to get the lifeboats. -- deciding who the people are that are one to get the lifeboats. if you can come to the microphone as soon as your number is called. this is still a work in process.

>> the build that was reported out of the ways and means committee, there were substantial areas of improvement that had to be made. there have been a few areas of primary focus for me. getting back to where sood concluded in her statements, i do believe we system delivery reform. right now, payment flows through the volume of care that is given rather than the value or quality. we spend $680 billion a year on medical care that does not improve patient care. into many instances, it makes it worse. that is why we have such huge geographic spending today throughout the country because of the way medicine is being

practiced and how it is being rewarded. our health care providers in this region of the country are doing it. they are showing us the way. they're delivering high quality at low cost compared to other regions of the country. there is a reason that the president points to this area as the model of care because of the cost savings that will bring it down to make it more affordable. i have a specially been focused on changing the payment system so that it is quality base, not quantity based because that $680 billion is the game changer. if we can start finding greater efficiencies in the delivery of quality care come about is what will make it affordable for all of us. this is the fastest-growing

area. if anybody is interesting -- interested in balanced budgets, when to look at this health-care system as one of the great cost drivers. secondly, the small group market has not been working well for small businesses and farmers and individuals. it is too expensive. i cannot tell you how many times i have talked to family farmers that say they are going without because of the high cost of health care and it is one of the most dangerous occupations that we have throughout the country. i have been working on this national exchange the would create a menu of health plan options from -- a four small businesses to go into and shoes, with complete transparency. you know what you get with a minimum benefit package. we are making them more affordable for small businesses to be able to obtain health care coverage. the majority of the uninsured are working americans.

if we can establish this exchange, i think that would be a significant help to a lot of people who do not have it. then, finally, this cannot just be about some government program. ultimately, moving to a health care system starts right here with each and every one of us. let's face it, we know we need to do more of. we need to eat better. we need to exercise more. we need to not smoke. we need to do this if this is ultimately go to work. unfortunately, that really has not been receiving that much attention. what we can do is try to encourage people. the news to be a greater emphasis on primary care physicians.

have there on the front line. they need to help people in well as programs. 80% of our health care costs are going to 20% of the population. that is a population that is dealing with chronic disease and chronic illness which is very expensive to treat. that would bring substantial cost savings to the health care system. that is one reason why i have been focused on children's health, making sure that the children of this country have access to quality health care coverage and then helping them try to make these white lifestyle choices so that we're not dealing with chronic but -- chronic diseases. these are a few of the things that i have been focused on. i am interested to hear your thoughts. i will turn it over to dick.

kerrey may look awfully mean, but she is really not. she is going to try to hold up cards to encourage the conversation to keep flowing. she will be the one to give you a one-minute warning, a 32nd morning and then a stop born. i will be around for a while after this form. i will turn over to you. >> when i read the number of, if you could just come forward, i would suggest that he go off to the side and maybe we can alternate so that one of the speakers can start here and in over here. if you would just come up and form a little rhyme, there will be four on each side to start with them then we will alternate back-and-forth. then we will be calling more up as the numbers decrease.

the first number is 393527. the last three digits are five to seven. the next number is 561. the next number is 502. the next number is 512. 715, 546, 727. if you folks will just come on up and be prepared to speak when it is your turn, please this gentleman was here first. >> can you repeat the numbers one time? >> 502, 546, 727, 715, 512,

527, and 561. >> before you speak, if you can adapt a father you are and where you're from and then the floor is yours. thank you. >> thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today. my name is alan and i am from wisconsin. i believe that the cash for clunkers program is a prime example of the government not being able to pay out the money to the car dealers. i think that would be a travesty to have the federal government

in control of our health care and providing a 1% and 2% and the other would be sitting in bureaucracy and waiting for payment. the dealers are going bankrupt waiting for this money. i do not believe the government should be for fighting for health care -- be providing free health care. i believe health care is a privilege and not a right. [applause] >> thank you. >> first off, let me thank you for letting -- four years of public service.

it is often a thing plus job, especially in these times. i am dr. thomas kamp. every year, we see increase in health-care costs. in recent years, we were looking at double digits in health-care costs. i think it is important for everyone to understand that these increasing health care costs for service to look at other courses services such as fire, police, plowing the streets of snow. this makes it more difficult for us to provide those core city services. i think it is absolutely critical that we were to manage health-care costs. on one everyone to understand that if we don't bring down those costs, if we don't look at

how we provide health care in this edition, it will bankrupt us in many ways and cause us to fail to provide many of the services that i think everyone in this room holds dear. we need the streets to be plowed so we can get to work. businesses require an individual's require it. thank you for your work and i am glad that you are focusing on cost and bring those costs down. i think a public auction would bring costs down. [applause] [booing] >> thank you.

i will leave it there. [applause] >> my name is matthew and i live in the city of a clea--oclaire. i rise in support of the public option. i think all people should have been the right to have good health care. currently our system is completely off track. it is a for-profit system even if they say it is not. we do need this reform and that is all i have. >>[applause] >> my name is carolyn kaiser and i am from wisconsin. i speak to rise to help people

understand the public auction a little bit. right now, insurance companies control a lot. they tell us what network we're in, what doctors we can see, what they're going to cover, what diagnosis we have and will the coverage or not and what equipment can we bring home and what durable medical supplies we can have. if we have a catastrophic illness, suddenly become [unintelligible] that is where the public option comes in. some competitive rate. also, it would help with negotiating prices. that is where we really are. right now, we have a lot of people who would say that i am concerned about government. look around this room and say how many of your on medicare. how many of you are on social security. in wisconsin, thank you for the

people that got senior care for another three years. a lot of people are on social security. i know that fdr work on health care reform back in the 1940's. -- worked on health care reform back in the 1940's. we need to remember the golden rule and we need to treat others the way we'v want to be treated. i want you to have health care and i want to have health care. thank you. >> 652, 579, 678, 671.

sorry, thank you. go ahead. >> thank you for this opportunity. my name is john steadman and i am for oclaire. i lost my job and then without health care coverage. for years ago, i was diagnosed with cancer and the treatment regimen is extraordinarily expensive. that said, it was diagnosed, fortunately, during preventive care physicals. i am a believer and an advocate of preventive care. i wish i had done it earlier. however, during that, i arrived for an appointment and a look me up and they said that i was scheduled for a treadmill test for heart pain.

i said that i have no problem with my heart. that is an err. >> they -- and ever -- that is n error. after discussing it and sitting down with the physician, he admitted to me that that was the only way that the insurance company would pay for the procedure. that has to stop. when we say we cannot afford it. we can afford it for everyone and everybody, now. >> i served on the county board of supervisors.

as we start our 2010 budget process, we have a 0% increase. we are doing this without knowing what the 2010 insurance policy will be. the constant increase in health- insurance costs has created a budget crisis. it is affecting our basic services such as the road repair and snowballing. this is forcing people. we're doing this with the lack of funding. we cannot begin these programs. we're paying in excess of $22,000 for a family policy. we need a health care policy that lowers and controls the cost of insurance. all local governments face these problems. your help with this will be

greatly appreciated. thank you. >> my name is dave usher and i am a family medicine physician in oclaire. i am going to try to stay away from political issues on this. i just want to speak to a couple of cost control issues that i think our allies to pay attention to. thank you for voting to slow this down a little. there are a lot of things that need to be reformed. there are a couple of things that i have not heard much about. there are things in these bills, but nobody is talking about it. one is, what are we doing with

medical malpractice tort reform? [applause] as a practicing physician, i can tell you that i have probably less of this and a lot of other specialties, but the talk about cost overruns and things that do not work. -- the talk about cost overruns and things that do not work. -- they talk about cost overruns and things that do not work. [applause] >> we have that reform in the state of wisconsin. did you feel it is not working well? >> i think we are much better off than most states. wisconsin has a lot going but is good for it.

i just got a new partner last year and i asked how the malpractice was in residency. if we do not control court reform -- toward reform --tort reform, [unintelligible] that does not mean that doctors to not have to be responsible for bad care, they should. there should be a limit. we need to do something to address primary-care doctor shortage because unless you give us more primary-care doctors, where are they going to go. i am three weeks out of my appointments. >> [applause] >> i am neal anderson and i am from whitehall. we heard about health care

reform and now we're talking about health insurance reform and that we are and to cut the cost. can you tell me exactly how it is we will cut the cost? looking at the federal government's track record when it comes to cutting costs, it is not very good. [applause] >> i have been focused on reform and how we pay for health care. when you have 680 billion in care, that does not and for patient care.

in many instances, it makes it worst. -- makes it worse. this is what our health care providers are duly throughout the region, which is a coordinated, integrated approach that his patient focused that is working. that is why the president has been " pointing -- has been pointing to the mayors and governors. the patient care results in high costs. unfortunately, other residents -- other regions of the country have not figured this out yet. we want to make it more affordable for everyone. >> good morning congressman. i have a friend who works for a health-care network and they would only hire him as an independent contractors of they would not have to give him benefits.

last october, he was diagnosed as a type 2 diabetics. insurance companies will not sell them coverage or they make it so expensive for him that it is attainable. his insulin refills are $196 and the last two months. it is his doctor visits cost of. a hospital visit cost of $15,000. my question is, will you please keep the public option in the health-care bill? the public option is fair. there must be such a choice. we cannot do any genuine health care reform without the public auction because the insurance industry is holding us all hostage if there are no checks

and balances to generate competition. how do you feel about the public option? . . but here is the point, and i hope people can be respectful of

this. there are a lot of people that what at least like that choice, at public auction, in the exchange. we do not want to force anybody into a public option if they do not want it, but they would end least like a choice to go into it so that we do not only have private insurance plans to get health care from, and i do not know about you, but i was a little bit riled a few years ago when i found the head of one company getting millions in compensation when he retired. that was coming from premiums and deductibles and copays. that was not going back into patient care, and that i have a problem with. [applause] >> some more numbers to read off. 604, 763, 716, --03

thank you. go ahead. good morning. your last statement, congressman kind, reminded me of -- my name is garnett, and i am from eau claire. i bet you're going to say bank of america or citibank because it was very similar. i like what you said. -- i thought you going to say bank of america. you said it very well. my main concern is of extreme apprehension of government. [applause] [cheers and applause] my thought has been all along these lines, why would not be possible for president obama to call a summit? why does he not have a summit of health-care providers, doctors, nurses, insurance companies,

other health-care providers? call them together and have them go together for probably a number of days, but have some thrust as getting people together to try to talk this out. the insurance companies, i know, are to blame. i agree. but we need to go across state lines. we need to work together. i am a little bit frightened of a public option because that would be government-funded, and when the government says you can keep your own insurance -- but i do not know if they can compete with the government. i do not know if the government is -- [cheers and applause] i am afraid that sooner or later, the government would usurp all of the involvement, and we are frightened, i think. it is very scary. so my concern is that we need to

work together across party lines, of course. we are all human beings. we all put our underwear on the same one leg at a time, and we all need solutions, and it would be wonderful if we could get together, and thank you. [applause] >> maybe i was not clear, but the public option under consideration has to be so stated. it cannot be using government subsidies to prop it up. in order to keep a level playing field -- ma'am, on your first point, i agree with you. that is the purpose of a public forum, it is so important that we listen to each other throughout this great country of ours to see if there is common ground, but the president has had health care summits. he is calling them in all of the time. i participate in the health-care summits. i participated in one.

at the end of a discussion, he said it, i have been down to this white house more with this president than i was in the previous years. and i have personally referred to the president to do more of that, to bring in more people of different viewpoints, even people who are disagreeing with what he thinks ought to be done so that he is getting a wide variety of viewpoints on it. bobbie, i did not know that you are sitting out there. bobbie, a state representative. thank you. >> congressman kind, we are so lucky to have a forum like this. oftentimes, when we look at the quality of health care provided, it is probably a higher quality health care than provided in any

metropolitan area. one of the concerns i have is that the reimbursement process deals with the metropolitan area. they are as talented as anyone, any place else, across america, and we need to keep them. we also need to make sure that our rural areas have access to physicians, and so maybe training physicians and giving them some breaks and the cost of education would include more becoming available to serve on us, and i do not know if it can be a part of the health care bill itself, but it is something that i think we should consider, for an thank you so much for coming. [applause] >> thank you, congressman kind, for this forum. i appreciate being able to

speak. i m&a business manager for the plumbers and steam fitters local and chairman of the trust fund that insures approximately 900 families. -- i m&a business manager. our employers -- i am a business manager. we cannot continue to afford a double digit increases year after year. it is just not acceptable. from the perspective of our organization, we believe that all employers should be required to provide health insurance, and this makes a better reality. health benefits in this country must not be taxed, and we also believe there needs to be a strong public option to provide coverage for the unemployed, the self-employed, and the less fortunate in this country. thank you. [applause]

>> thank you. my name is jay. my work brings me to the area today, and i saw that you're going to have this, and i thought i would stop in. there are a lot of buses outside, so thank you. recently, there was a steady in our industry, part of the construction industry. i wanted to find out what percentage health care costs were in 1964 compared to today, of the total compensation package, and what i learned is that in 1964, our health care costs took up between 3% and 4% of the total compensation package. today, it is approaching another percentage. we have been a real crisis. when you couple that with the fact that -- we have many double-income families.

they are paying into two different plans and only getting one benefit, and we have a crisis, an impending crisis, and we are always able to come together after a crisis, like proper harbour. we are able to come together, like when we said the pledge of allegiance debate. i think we need to, forward together and stop blaming. we went to blame the government that they cannot handle health care. well, and doggone it, if that is your view, then let's get involved. the fact is that we have the entire industrialized nation to look at as a template for our health-care delivery system. do not tell me that we as

americans, if we come together, do not tell me that we cannot get it better. thank you. >> the next four numbers are 782, 664, 621, and 656. >> thank you for holding this so close to eau claire. i own several small businesses. my consideration of what is being proposed is that i find it somewhat similar to what happened to her with a bailout for the automotive industry, and i know that is not really what we are talking about today, but there was supposed to be a great deal of transparency with the bailout. nobody really knows, and i was

not able to find out how much money we have given to the automotive industry. there is the wall street journal, i cannot actually did it because there is no transparency there. we do not know where the money actually came from or rather, where it came from. i am afraid our health care, if you taken over, is one to be stuck in the same situation, and no one -- [applause] my concern is. financial. i mean, where is it going to stop? how are we going to know what is happening, and where is it going to go, and where is it going to go. that is a real problem because it can go on for ever. and if automotive cells are

flat, what is going to happen in december? that is the same thing that may happen with health care. this is my concern. >> i am jered from colfax. i have three brief points i would like to make. number one, i am concerned with it once free people, a brave people, and never trade freedom for security, or you will lose both. representative kinds, i know you have said in these debates, we should respect one another.

with that, i would like you to tell nancy pelosi that we are not un-american. i would like you to tell harry reid that we are not even among birds. i would like you to tell your award followed senators and congressmen that we are not the ku klux klan, and we have nothing in common with the likes of timothy mcveigh. we are americans, simply exercising our constitutional right. [cheers and applause]

also, please tell your community organizing president to get used to an organized community. [cheers and applause] and, finally, point number three, -- >> and the couple of other people finish their comments. it will only take another couple of seconds. >> i am going to quote one very wise man, 1 ncs lillis. of all of the tyrannies, the tyranny's exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. it may be better under robber barons then under, omnipotence,

moral busybodies. -- ban under them. the robber barons cruelty may sometimes lead -- and under them -- than under them. but those who torment us for their own good will torment us without end, because they do so with the approval of their own conscience. [cheers and applause] >> mr. chairman? i would like to yield my time to the lady in distress here. go ahead, ma'am. >> do you want to use your time,

or not? >> i do want to use my time, but i just thought we would do malaise first. congressman, i do appreciate this time. what a fabulous country we live in. i do not care what side you stand on this issue. that being said, congressman -- oh, i am sorry. i am ken. i am a citizen of eau claire. i identify myself on the side of liberty, and that is what this country was founded on, liberty, and when the lady before said she was apprehensive, i do not want to speak for her, but i fear personal liberty being taken away by public option and this bill. [applause] and i do not say that as someone in your terms might be on the right side of the aisle, but i also want you to know that i

oppose the patriot act, as well, because it infringes on personal liberties, as well, so i walk both ways. there are portions of this bill that penalizes business owners if they do not enroll in this plan. that is wrong. there are portions in this bill -- in fact, the one that struck me as totally bizarre actually prevents insurers from enrolling more patients on a private basis after a certain date, which i believe is 2013. i am opposed to that. i think that infringes on the liberty of business owners. that is wrong. thank you for doing that. we oppose this form lot of reasons. the final point i would like you to take home is to please tell him that we are not concerned about his legacy. we are concerned about freedom

and protection from government. cheers and applause. >> four more numbers. go ahead, please. >> my name is contee marshall, and i am from bluecross. i am really concerned because as a christian, i want to make certain that if there is a national health-care bill, which i sincerely hope there is not, that there is wording in this bill that does not leave open this issue of abortion.

[cheers and applause] we have killed 50 million people in this country since 1971. 50 million. that is a whole generation of people. this bill does not even addressed it. it permits abortions, but it does not prohibit abortion. that is my point. there needs to be language in the that explicitly prohibits abortion.

>> let me address that really quickly. i think there is a misconception out there. under public law, there is no money for public abortion. that will not change. it will not change under this legislation. >> ok, i'd just want to make another quick point, and i think it is very important. the health-care commission that may be formed or may already be formed to oversee this national health care bill will be able to pass rules that they themselves make after the health-care bill is passed, and congress does not have to approve or disapprove. this is why i am opposed to the national health-care bill.

>> ma'am, your time is up. you finished that point, and i think we will move on to the next speaker. thanks. [applause] >> my name is -- i live in whitehall. and i did email you about 3.5 weeks ago along with senator feinstein and others with the question i have got. i finally called and asked the question, and i finally drove down to ask the question. i still not get an answer. if the federal plan for health goes through, as you'll -- are you as a politician going to take it? and if not, why? >> m&a answer that real quick.

cristóbal, and not on the federal employee health program -- i am going to answer that real quick. first of all, i am not on the federal employee health program. it will apply equally to everyone and under this bill, just to be clear on this point, no one is forced into a public option that does not want to go there. that does not want to go there. >> are you taking it? i did not catch it or not? >> i am not. >> or what? >> i am not on the program. >> that is not an answer. >> our politicians going to be

taking this federal plan, like you're asking everybody else do. >> if they want to, they can, because we are not forcing anyone. listen, folks. this is a community of honest responses. you can choose to believe it, or not, but under this plan, no one is forced, under any public option that does not want to go there, including members of congress. >> it is a good plan, what are you not taking it? >> we are not saying it is good. we are saying people want a choice. >> we will take your choice then. one last thing. when did the government option become the public option? all right here now is public option. >> that is how it has been described -- all i hear now is public option. >> you would change the boogeyman from the doctors to

the hospitals now to the insurance companies -- you have changed the bogyman. [cheers and applause] >> congressman, thank you for coming today, and i appreciate your honesty this. i have not seen this regarding public meetings with some others, thank you. my name is diana. i lived in arcadia. i am on your email list, and i thank you for the opportunity and for the service you provide, so kudos to you there. thank you very much. a lot of people have already raised, the lack of trust, and i think you consented yourself that we could believe you if we want to or not. there is an overall lack of trust in our government officials, and is getting worse.

so, congressman, what will you do to regain our trust? from the great people of the state of wisconsin which you represent? however you voted? did you vote for the budget that was passed earlier this year? it seems that nobody can answer or whether they read the darn thing. i am concerned about that. if our people reading it? are you reading it? did you listen to it? by the way, i have your number in my cell phone. people, do that. if you have not done that, do you listen to us? i thank you for coming here today. one of the concerns i will mention is our federal debt. we are spiraling out of control, and i do not know how you can get around it. it will increase our debt.

we are way out of control. we need to protect our future generations, and we also need to protect the jobs of this country. people are constantly shifting jobs overseas, and i want to know what you're doing to protect that. [cheers and applause] . >> thank you. really quickly, the president has stated repeatedly he will not sign a health-care bill that is not paid for. that does not add to the national debt, and i agree with him on that. i voted against the new prescription drug plan. this was a burden on future generations, and not one nickel was paid for. five years ago, and i did not

see crowds like this morning when it that was passed, and not a nickel was paid for. there were 8000 earmarks in the bill, and i did not sign it. i share your concern. the debt is out of control, and we have to bring it under control. >> four numbers, 765, 811. sir? >> yes, my name is dayana. i am from the state of wisconsin. i would like to know why the big rush?

how many have even read this monstrosity? the next thing, the government has a very poor track record is bankrupt. medicaid is bankrupt. look at the post office. look at social security. and they are of bankrupt. whenever the government gets their hands on something, it goes bankrupt. and the reason we are seeing this is that people feel that they are not being represented. we the people are speaking.

there was this nationalized government controlled health- care system. and just a lesson from life. you know, if i go to work with, my boss tells me something to do, and i do something else, he will give me a warning. do it again, and i may be down the road looking for another job. thank you. >> representative, thank you for coming. and bring you greetings from the people out in the hallway.

i wish your staff would have found a bigger venue to hold this end. this is a pretty important issue before us. my main concern is how the federal government plans on paying for this. currently, we of medicare and medicaid. these programs are underfunded, and now, it looks like we want to take on another program that i really have not heard how we plan on funding these programs. can you answer that? >> yes. that is a fair question. it is important. we need to find a way to figure out how to pay for this. i believe in that in my gut. the irony is is that under the congressional budget office, they tell us what is going to happen. they say that under the current

proposal, as it exists, we will extend medicare for seven years, extending solvency of medicare because of the changes in the program. this has been extended by an additional seven years by what we are doing here. but, it is a very valid point, and it is something we have to be focused on as we move forward, how we will pay for these things. >> we have three options. we can raise taxes. we can borrow more, and i think we are coming to the end of what we can borrow from wherever we borrow, china, and a year the printing press has been running. >> there is also another option. there is the delivery system to reform.

you have got $680 billion wasted every year on procedures that do not work. we ought to be looking therefore cost savings. >> the cbo says the net savings on this is 0, so we are doing all of the work on this for nothing. >> they are not saying that. thank you very much. >> apparently, some of the folks did not come up. >> 753, 716, 603, 811. the next four are 657, 797, 487,

670. we have got an echo in the back room. >> go ahead. >> hello, my name is doug. i am from wisconsin. you have got to get right into the microphone, ok. i am from wisconsin. i think a lot of issues that been addressed year, but the thing i see the worst is that we are bogged down in this datz, and we are taking on another program that is costing us billions and trillions, maybe, and we have got to go borrow this money, correct? we are borrowing money from the chinese right now. how much billions, trillions of dollars? and anyone else who has got money from our debt -- and one thing i do know is that when you

are in debt, you know, you owe the guy or the person you are in debt to. i mean, they control how you react, and if we have a major financial situation in this country with all of this major debt piled on us, how do we do it without coming to all of us and asking us to pull it out of our pockets? i appreciate it. and the other thing is, a tort reform. -- is, tort reform. i am concerned about the pileup of debt in this country. there are a lot of the golden fleece awards. over the last eight years, we ahead fast as the accumulation of the national debt in our history.

but we have had the fastest accumulation. again, it is a bipartisan problem in search of a bipartisan solution. that is why m&a believer in the pay as you go world. we have got to find an offset to pay for it in order to maintain -- that is why i am a believer in the pay as you go rule. tort reform. i agree with you. if we're going to be asking doctors to practice medicine, and if they do that, they should be given a safe haven against frivolous lawsuits. unlike tavis is setting up here. there is the patient compensation fund. wisconsin does have that now.

this is part of the health-care challenge. >> i am walter. i called this the slow boat to china. this is what we have been talking about. you are on the ways and means fort social security, and i am talking about h4235. this is called the social security act -- hr235. it had various names. this has been collecting dust for years. i know you understand what i am talking about. under the reagan administration, social security reform was done at that time.

they were looking to of social security reduced. that was our teachers that were employed and others. so we would like you missed seeing this year, there are 300 co-sponsors of the bill, and according to note this, you are not one of them. to give you an example, if you were a nurse for 20 years, and then you became a teacher after that, you then have your social security reduced by 75%. we do you then have your social security reduced by 75% -- you then have your social security reduced. how about that? now, we know how your stimulus padilla bill went through so fast. 20 years is kind of a long time to think about to finance reform and the bill -- reforming the

bill. one way to do is look on your computer. this, i call, government waste. >> congressman, thank you for being here today. i am a professor. >> can you identify myself? >> yes, mr. martin from eau claire. some of the questions i have had had been last year, but i would just like to say again about the concern that i have about congress and theñ representatives having their own health care when they are

putting out health care like this that is putting it on all of us. i know you said that we are not going to have to do that, but i have read that, eventually, we will all be on this, and that is the goal. now, i am against this because i feel that really is a problem. i am for competition. i hope that our doctors would also have freedoms. their hands are getting tied more and more than ever, and i want them to be able to be freed up to be able to do things they know will cuba person truly, truly cure them. without having a pharmaceutical companies coming down on them, and i need to see something like that in that bill. and also, the health-care plan is very clear.

this will affect every aspect of my life. and i am concerned that the choices, being able to make choices from building up my own emmy and system so that the health care willie will not cost as much as it does today -- building up my own a new system. so that the health care really will not cost as much as it does today. having the chance to build our country with our families and associates that we have together. so thank you for being here. i hope that you and seriously consider the big changes that need to come into this plan before it can be ok. >> four more numbers. 607, 585, 538, and --

sir, go ahead. >> my name is -- i am from wisconsin. i m&a retired teacher. -- i am a retired teacher. i think most of the questions i wanted to ask have already been an ass. i had heart surgery 30 some years ago. i go to a place that has senior preferred, and i got insurance about half of what i paid when i was a teacher and when it was nikozi added by the union. i think i paid less than $300 a month for both my wife and i, and i just cannot understand why we have these -- when it was

negotiated by the union. we have some of the best in the world right here, and i do not understand why we want the government to take over what is working and what is good. [cheers and applause] . i have one either remaining. i guess that is all i've got to say. i do not see how anyone in this area would want the government takeover. [cheers and applause] >> oh congressman kind, my name is malaise. -- >> congressman kinds, my name is malaise -- congressman kind, my name is lloyd.

i am a united states veteran. [cheers and applause] the in the united states veteran, i am little luckier than most people -- being a united states veteran. contrary to popular belief, i have the best health care system and the most cost-efficient one, and is run by the federal government. that is bda. -- and is run by the federal government. that is the v.a. [cheers and applause] in the past decade, medical costs and increased over 100%. the congressional budget office estimates, and i quote, that job-based health insurance could increase 100% in the next decade.

employer based insurance costs for a family of four will reach $25,000. another study in 2007 showed that 62% of all bankruptcy is were linked to medical expenses. 80% had health insurance. not only is affordable health care reform morally the right thing to do, i believe that the u.s. economy will be dependent on health-care reform. thank you. [cheers and applause] . >> i am just reminded that those who have questions or comments, these are the last three.

that is correct. >> in q2? >> yes, i am sorry. i did not see you. go ahead, sir. >> i am from wisconsin. i do not know if you remember this one person to testify earlier about having cancer, but every single month, i deny people basic medical care i deny people whether diabetes. i deny people needed -- who need it. this has not changed for over 20

years. we are told that it is un- american to give these basic needs to people. i went to a catholic school. i was taught that whatever you do to the least of my brethren, you do unto me. [applause] i reject the idea that it is un- american to give these basic services to the least of my brethren. i also reject the idea that anything we do for the common good is socialism. we have said social security with socialism. there is the 40-hour week that has been called socialism. medicare.

i do not think that there is socialism. if we can get this brief reform of the health-care system through, it will be one more mark for the civilized nation. >> good afternoon, congressman. i feel like my heart is going to come out of my chest here. >> you are doing great, you are doing great. could you identify yourself for me? >> my name is -- i think we need to take a deep breath and slow down with this process. we have a lot of great minds in this country, a lot of great people, and this is a very, very

important problem we have. and i would like to say that righteousness' exults -- righteousness' exalts a nation -- righteousness. >> thank you, congressman, for coming. i am from wisconsin. i am over 20 years old, and i have been tried to go back to school to finish my degree, but i do not want to quit my job because i would lose my health care coverage. is there anything to help people like me while completing their education? >> that is a pretty direct question, but you are exactly right. for too many people in this country to have a job, their

health care insurance is provided there. i cannot tell you there's where they have this great idea. they want to spin out this company and create jobs, because my employer sponsored health care and the fact that my wife or family member had a pre- existing condition, i could not do it. i had to keep working, so one of the objectives of the bill and for students alike, was creating the national exchange where you could go to as an individual or as a business and choose from a menu of health plans, coupled with affordability credits, so it attaches to you as opposed to just attaching to the job, and that is something that is important. in order for students to be able to get health-care coverage and for people who are on their own and do not have the luxury right now of having employers doing this. but also, to be clear, the existing system is predominantly

employer base. we are saying if you like your employer health care, if you like your doctor, keep it. nobody is going to change it. you can keep it. >> my name is gary. i am from wisconsin. what you're talking about if the federal government takes control of the system, how is any insurance company going to compete with that. the insurance company, everything else is done. you cannot sit there and say if you like it, you can keep it, because once this happens, it is gone. it is gone. [cheers and applause] i can tell you right now have you can fix a lot of these problems. first of all, we had a president

who said he was going to scrub these bills clean of any ways. as that happens? joe biden was going to go through that, and he was the tiger. forget about joe biden. if you want to fix this problem, you take a plane look at these midwestern people who actually got common sense, slide them to washington, and have them start going through the bills. [cheers and applause] >> my name is jay. i am from wisconsin. my insurance premiums have gone up over 7%, and if that were it, i would be waltzing now. my premiums have, of over 800%

because i am an individual, and when i started -- my premiums have gone up over it under% -- gone up over 800%. i am sick of this. every couple of weeks, every time somebody's kid gets hit by the car, they have to come to the public so they can afford it. "money" magazine said if you retired, you need to hundred $40,000 in the bank just to cover health insurance for the balance of your live until social security -- you need to hundred $40 -- you name it $240,000. -- yioou need that much

. >> j thank you greather thanay -- >> thank you, jay. and join me in thanking the people will helped put this together, and i want to thank all of you. i know how busy people are, and for this type of turnout, this is astounding. it really is. and i am proud of the exchange that we have had today. i think it was respectful and civil, but this really goes to the heart of it. as a nation, we really have to figure out a way to come together in this type of format and other formats and listen to one another, and i am sure that by doing more of that and having a trust in one another and working hard to find common ground, maybe together, we can

solve some of the challenges we are facing as a nation. i will keep an open door. you know how to reach me. i will be having more forums, because it is important that ideas be shared and that we find some common ground with how to do it. i will be around for a bid for personal conversation, but i want to thank the law enforcement here to help the crowd moving through. thank you all. thanks everyone. -- i will be around for a little bit for personal conversation. >[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] >> more town hall meetings tomorrow with howard dean. live coverage begins at 7:00 p.m. eastern. >> you are watching public affairs programming on c-span3 and up next, today's white house

news briefing from arthur's vineyard. reporters asked about cia interrogations. -- from martha's vineyard. later, a musician nick jonas from the jonas brothers on juvenile diabetes. we go inside the supreme court to see the public places and those are rarely seen spaces, her directly from the justices as they provide their insight on the court and the building. the supreme court, home to the land's highest court, the first sunday in october on c-span. >> how is c-span funded? >> private donations. >> grants and stuff like that. >> donations. >> i do not know where the money comes from. >> federally? >> it comes from donations.

>> how is c-span funded? it was a private business initiatives, no government mandate, no government money. >> president obama and his family are on vacation in martha's vineyard. topics include the new cia report on detainee interrogation during the bush administration and the health-care debate. this is about 25 minutes. >> well, i would just onto my water. good morning. i think we're going to call this martha's fios center. i like it. a little warm. the president has enjoy the hospitality of the people in martha's vineyard. they had dinner with valerie jarrett and their daughter, and other people came over. this morning, the president

worked out. he played some tennis with the first lady, and he will hit the links with congressman clybourn and others. and here is what is on the reading list, because i know some folks up and asking. it is long. "the way home," "hot, flat, and crowded," "john adams," and others. was that, i will take some questions. -- with that. >> what reaction is the administration going to have with this? >> the president has said he

thinks we should be looking forward, not backward. he does agree with the attorney general to anyone who conducted actions that have been sanctioned should not be prosecuted, but ultimately, the decision on who is investigated and is prosecuted is up to the attorney-general, so i refer you there. >> going after people m&a have committed crimes? >> you have to talk to the attorney general about who gets investigated and prosecuted. the president thinks that eric holder, whom he appointed as attorney-general, should make those decisions. >> i know there is nothing official as far as a visit to senator kennedy across the sound of there, but is that a possibility, that he might go by, across the sound there? >> i had heard that