♪ host: this morning. with new unemployment numbers out tomorrow, the paper this morning has a front-page story on that piu research study. it says that four out of 10 workers over the age of 62 are delaying their retirement. there is also a copy of the autobiography by ted kennedy, due out september 14. the front-page story reveals his stories on various points. there is more on the former red sox player who is considering a senate bid in massachusetts. and in "the washington post

quoted asking charlie rangel to resign his senate committee chairmanship. the president is addressing a joint session. we will have live coverage as he tries to outline details on his health care policies. the phone lines are open. we will also accept your tweets and e-mails. the president will flesh out his vision in a speech. aides say that the president will use the speech to add more specifics to his vision to overhaul the nation's health- care system.

meanwhile, the store from the front page of "the wall street journal quality -- obama re- launches the health bid. -- the front page of "the wall street journal." the overall under discussion would require most individuals to buy insurance, a federally operated exchange, where individuals and small businesses could buy insurance and tax credits to help people buy the plants. -- to buy the plans.

and also, this morning a front- page as the president heads off to camp david. he will spend the labor day weekend there. he is trying to resuscitate his push for health-care overhaul and has decided to address a rare joint session of congress next week to make a revamped argument. first up is david joining us from miami. caller: i'm a first time caller. host: it is early. you are on the independent line. caller: listen, i just heard about that.

i got a bit some ridiculous hour this morning. what i wanted to say is that about the joint session. i have listened to a number of the town hall meetings and i had passed judgment on them. i think it is very odd that those hosted by the democrats seem to have a lot of hecklers and people who just boo and mr. of the speakers. i have not noticed that at all from the republicans. i don't know what to think of that, frankly, but it just seems like somebody is up to some shenanigans on this. host: david, if you are interested in watching the health care hearings we have covered, go to our website at c- span.org. we have the health care hub that has indexed each of the town hall meetings we have covered

over the past month. it includes some of the ads as well. outside the beltway, the pittsburgh paper has obama to address congress on health care on the front page this morning. we're joined on the republican line from north carolina. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i know that president obama is going to speak to congress during health care, but also noticed your headline but said "seize control" -- i think a lot of people are missing the ball. the real story is the changes coming from the white house via the czar cabinet that has not been approved by congress. i like to see investigation into that. national endowment of the arts, all kinds of other avenues to pass the message.

host: thanks, bob. this is the headline you were referring to from the front page of "the washington post." margie is joining us. caller: i really missed hugh. y you. you cannot force the american people to go pay the bully who stole your money when there's the public option. that is immoral. the second thing, in chicago there is a major medical center for some people to give flu shot

even if they are allergic, or there will be fired. what is that? there is a carcinogenic in that. now that i have cancer i might think about it. forcing people and there is no public option -- if they don't have the public option, i really losing the fight. not in my life, you have to keep fighting -- but this is so sad. you cannot change this by giving the bully more money. host: when will you diagnosed? caller: in june. i have met a kid. they do not argue. they do not have to go through insurance -- i have medicaid. i will not be bankrupt as i am already poor. but to have people who have no jobs to our kept by wal-mart purposely without health care, tell them they have to buy it now from the bullies and still get nothing, have to go to work sick? because there will not get paid.

republicans, if you give up on this public option, i cannot even any more look at you. it is worse than we expected from people who hate our own citizens. from this nurse who loves all of you, i fought for 30 years to take care of your health. please take care of your fellow person. this is not a widget. if you want to be a capitalist, fine. do not use people. host: how is your help today? how are you feeling? caller: well, it is chemo, and i have lost a few family members who are afraid that i might take their money. you see who your real friends are. thank god there are some beautiful people. i will survive and be a better earners, a strong burners. but i cannot keep up this fight. -- i will be a better nurse, a

stronger nurse. we want to take care people, not gouge to take money. if you do, go somewhere else. this is health care. i love you people. host: thank you for your phone call, and good luck with the treatment you are undergoing. this morning inside "the financial times." the address on congress' second day back after a frenzied summer of lobbying, particularly by republican, opposed to the administration's plans will mark mr. obama's returned to the center of the debate. it will only be the second time they he will have addressed both houses on the hill. next, the independent line. caller: good morning. my heart goes out to the last caller. i am a liberal independent. i was a democrat for 24 years.

i became an independent in may because i was mad at the democrats going against president obama on numerous issues. however, there are three bills in the congress for public option. senator ted kennedy's health committee has a public option in their bill. organizing for america which i volunteered for, we surveyed on a public option. i spent almost two months making calls to organizing for america and the public option was heavily supported. with the mixed messages from the democrats and stop volunteering. i got really mad after listening to kent conrad and some of the conservative democrats saying that they do not belong, do no work for nancy pelosi or president obama.

one thing about senator kennedy's funeral. as he was being put into his grave after they read the letter that he sent to the pope know when mentioned the letter that the pope sent to senator kennedy. i guess that was a conspiracy to keep the religious right smack at the democrats so everybody will believe that democrats will go to hell -- it is the first on i have ever heard about a letter from the pope being kept secret. host: here, cardinal john o'malley last night issued a forceful defense of his decision to participate in the funeral of senator ted kennedy. his appearance drew some sharp criticism.

more details are also available online from boston.com. caller, you referred to senator kennedy. here is this headline. this is a result of his book called "true compass" due out later this month. "the new york times" has obtained a copy. in this article they say that ted kennedy called his behavior after the 1969 car accident said it the events might have shortened the life of his ailing father. the senator who left the scene

and did not report the accident to the police until after her body was found in a state admitted that he had made terrible decisions at chappaquiddick. he also said he had hardly known the woman and that he had no romantic relationship with her. the account of the incident and his relationshi andp with his father, and his illness are included in the. texas, good morning. caller: yes, i also feel for the woman two callers back. my wife has gone through kenya. she is better. -- my wife has gone through leukemia. if the democrats want to get serious, the place to start is tort reform. we all know that. if they want to get the conservatives attention and sent to mike along with, health care

needs a tuneup, not an overhaul. they want to turn it upside down. -- if you want to get the conservatives' attention and maybe something we can all get along with, health care just needs a tuneup. as far as certain about the morality, socialism itself is immoral. it is the economics of satan. it is easy to set people in thinking it will get something for nothing. it is just not true. host: do you have another point? caller: yes, again the tort reform, let's start there. host: thanks for the call. one of the photos this morning. democrats preaching to the converted on health care. part of an 11-city tour for those faithful to president obama's health care plan. rachel who is a reporter has

been talking about it on line. she joins us on the phone. guest: hello. how are you? host: what have you seen over the last month? how does that transcend the debate we have seen of the past month? guest: well, the debate has been very heated in the last month. some of that is very grass roots. people are honestly offended and very scared about some of it is drummed up by these groups like the two-party express. host: yes, and we will speak with deborah jones from the two- party express in just a few minutes. we have heard the term "astroturf" and some who say it really is a grassroots campaign. what is it? guest: the two-party express

itself is arranged by an action committee and is called our country deserves better. it is run by the gop by this guy used to be a state representative in california and ran in 2006. he has a strategist involved in all this other campaigns. so, it looks a little astroturf y. at the same time, the people who come to this rally seemed -- they're not paid to be there. they really believe what they are saying they're scared of with socialism and obama. host: has it had an impact? is that why we're seeing the president speak before congress next week? guest: yes, it has been dominating the news, these people who are so forcefully and

emotionally against health-care. host: where will all of this head it? guest: it is a good question. i know there is the climax in the near future. there is a big rally in washington, d.c. coming up. i believe that there is actually something going on in support of health care the next day. host: on this page in the "the new york times" -- it says there have been a host of accusations from opponents of a plan that have been suspicious that many of the mainstream media have flatly labeled them false.

guest: oh, i have not seen the article. host: the essence is that we need a real debate on health care and not some of the as you say, astroturf, that we have seen over the last month. guest: absolutely. the need to be -- a lot of the opponents and conservatives are just coming up with things that are completely false like death penalty. it would be more productive to talk about what is actually in the bill. but that will not kill the bill. getting people really afraid of things that do not exist as what will kill the bill. host: rachel is a reporter for talking points and she has joined us on the phone. our next guest will join us in a few moments. back to your phone calls as the president speaking before congress next week -- good

morning. caller: i had a stroke about three years ago and if i had had good hospitalization there would have made sure that i would have had an mri, but because i did not have good insurance, any insurance, a few months went by and i ended up having a stroke. that is okay. i am making it, however, i just want to mention that it is really nice that joe-six-pack who don't drink like me, got a measly $250 with one of obama's first things he did in office. here i am a nobody, don't drink, that i was thought of enough to get $250. one more thing that is very important -- tthe keith

olbermanns of the world make me so optimistic about this country because they make sure -- republicans don't lie about obama. host: this says the president should address specifics of health-care reform. our twitter address is twitter.com/cspanwj. this from the paper -- some americans have not gotten over the fact that obama is president of the 90 states. they go to sleep wondering, how did this happen? meanwhile, and a tutorial called "sorry, charlie."

it asks him to resign as chairman of the ways and means committee. it says that representative charlie wrinkles amended financial disclosure form exposes emissions and is a treasure trove of average. he neglected to report a checking account and one with merrill lynch, each valued at between $250,000 and $500,000, and it tends of thousands of dollars he's earning from dividends, and even more. we are joined from winter haven,

and florida. -- florida. caller: i have been on social security. this is not astroturf. this is not made up things. these are things that truly scare people. i have a genetic blood disorder that prevents the clotting so that i can i get the surgeries that i need to give back to work. my mind is not dead and i would like to give back to work as a financial adviser. i have degenerative arthritis. host: how long have you been out of work? caller: six years. i would be one of those -- i would they start to talk to me

about death at the age of 60? that is where you get the idea of a debt panel. you expect to live until you're 75, 80. it is not that obama is black. that does not bother us. the thing is right and wrong. when somebody is wrong, that is what makes you mad. when the give arguments that we are stupid or racist it just anchors as more. they just blow the money, the most corrupt congress ever been there -- it just angers us more. i think they all need to be removed from office. to reform health care you need to start reforming it in terms of allowing people to buy insurance from state to state and having a competitive all over the country. been giving tax breaks -- though not cost any more than what they

want to do now, to companies to offer to people. host: i will stop you on that. come greg. -- will stop you on that point, greg. the store points out that officials say that obama is unlikely to unveil a detailed legislative plan on his own on wednesday and insisted he woulhe not given up on the provision that attracted the most fire from the right -- a proposal for government-run competitor to private insurers. as we said earlier in the program, there are many efforts from around the country, including from an organization called to party express. deborah joins us on the phone. there's a caravan of making its way across the country. you can see it on there website.

guest: good morning. host: who is behind this? guest: the american people are behind it all across the country. i am getting over 1000 e-mails per day from people saying how encouraged to they are that the american people are finally coming out and speaking out against socialism. i have had democrats come out. i had a man from nevada who came out as a democrat. he said he has voted that way for the last 45 years of his life. this is the first time ever he has come out of any type of rally or protest. host: in terms of organizing logistics', and as we can see from your map, who are the key people putting all of this together? guest: i am one of the main organizers.

i helped to arrange all the different rally spots across the country with local people in the local area as. host: what are you seeing, hearing? and guest: phenomenal. there are so many signs that people are making to stop taxing americans to death. people are concerned that the country is losing sight of who it really is. not adhering to the constitution. the american people are not stupid. they know that the taxes are getting higher with all of these bailouts. they are tired of the government not listening to them. now you have nancy pelosi when president obama comes out is today and says there's a stick with a public option, nancy pelosi turn around and says that the bill will most definitely have the public option in it.

it is like they do not know what the other one is doing. host: when you hear the speaker of the house called the efforts astroturf, what is your response? guest: astroturf does not grow. the movement is continuing to grow. they have serious doubts about the administration and our sick and tired of a government that does not listen to the people. they are feeling it is a government -- they say that the constitution begins with we, the people, not weak, the governmen, the government. -- not we, the government.

host: what is your background? guest: i'm from california and got involved in politics i and 2004 when my son who is a marine and has done three tours of duty in iraq, when someone started calling our men and women in uniform is the ultimate terrace. i began to speak out on behalf of our military and veterans'. i have continued to bring light to the people's voice, to the politicians. to say they have to listen to the will of the people and stop doing what they want when they want. host: any interest in running for office yourself? guest: not yet, but we will see. i have been asked and i think that is a great honor, but right now i do not.

host: when you ended the caravan arrived in washington, d.c. on september 11, 12, what will happen here? guest: there is a big rally on capitol park about taxes, stopping the spending. stubbing cap and trade and health care. the government intervention in people's lives. it is a combination of things for the american people to say enough is enough. host: this is the website. where are you today, by the way? guest: we are in san antonio this morning. then, we are headed to waco and dallas today. host: thank you for being with us today. the story is also in the boston

and new york papers. this concerns the former pitcher of the boston red sox. he has an interest in running for the late senator's seat. he wrote that he does have some interest in the possibility in his blog yesterday. but he did say that many, many things would have to be aligned to go that way. he is 42 years old. here is a message from twitter. next is a caller from philadelphia on the republican line. caller: good morning. my biggest problem with this whole thing is that althougl th people having these little two parties -- they are wonderful, wonderful, but here's my question.

why aren't any republicans, republican senators or others going up to the highest mountain and a screaming about all of the abuses that obama has put on the country? like glenn beck who has come up with this. now everyone is jumping on van jones. the guy is an avowed communist and obama knew that, but still hired him. the only thing i can figure out is that -- i will put it in a nutshell. republicans, think trent watts -- what happened then? host: here's this photograph from the washington paper. former congressman leaving a federal prison in rochester, after serving seven years for his conviction on bribery and racketeering. finally, another opinion on health care from karl rove, a

former adviser to president bush. he writes that obama and the poor for a political storm -- and the perfect political storm -- august was the worst month in obama's presidency. this piece concludes by saying that president's always encounter rough patches. what is unusual is how soon mr. obama has had his. it says that he has used up almost all his good will in less than nine months with the hardest work still ahead. that is found inside this morning inside "the wall street journal." all this week we have been focusing on health care and wanted to take a look at it inside of hospitals.

if you like to watch our three- part series on a virginia hospital you can go to our website, c-span.org. in a moment we want to look at the care of patients through a community health care. vincent will join us here in washington, d.c. to find out how they are treating patients, many of whom are uninsured. it is thursday morning, september 3. we continue in just a moment. >> we will review the health- care debate in congress tonight with pilot from house committee meetings and analysis by a reporter from the dow jones newswires. friday night, where the issue stands in the senate.

sunday, a comparison of health care systems from around world with his former reporter. >> in more than a dozen works, jonathan kozol has analyzed and critiqued the american education system. sunday we will take your questions live on the show. >> lessons in leadership from the former head of centcom the middle east envoy. this retired leader on health organizations and leaders can best respond to that trends reshaping the world. he discusses this book with the former fema director. >> what is the best way to secure america? tom ridge takes an inside look at the terrorist threat, his tenure as first head of homeland security and what led to his resignation. that is saturday on c-span2. host: in washington, d.c., the

unity health care clinic is available to needy patients. about 30 clinics in the nation's capital care for about 90,000 individuals per year. vincent is the president and ceo of unity healthcare. good morning. guest: thank you for having me, steve. was host: been the last few days looking at health care through the eyes of hospitals and administers. first of all, give as background on how you treat and why. guest: it is a non-profit organization. it is federally qualified and has certain federal responsibilities and privileges. unity has about 30 clinics throughout the city, but there are about 950 of these throughout the u.s. we essentially take care of those who are medically under- served, often lack health insurance. they may have medicaid,

medicare, but not always the capacity to be able to access health care on the private market to. we provide what we call culturally-sensitive services. we provide not only the health care, but also wraparound services like social work and case management, linguistic translations. many who come to us out of that 90,000 are from other countries, or are from this country, but do not always speak the language current around here. our funding is a mix. we get federal funds, contracts from the district of columbia department of health, corrections. also raise money privately through our foundation. we also get medicare and medicaid money because under federal law health care centers have to be reimbursed reasonable rate for the services they provide. host: why would someone go to your clinic as opposed to johns hopkins or howard university?

guest: we are cheaper, firstly, but the important thing on primary health care is to keep people out of the hospital so they don't go there inappropriately. the hospitals you mentioned are all excellent and provide great care. getting care to people at the right time and place. the community health center, and environment on primary-care basis, it is where people should get the preventive care. then one must go to the hospital there is a continuity between the primary care and hospital. the common use is that of the emergency room. it is not a standard, ongoing system of care. it is a very costly process. host: for patients to go to your clinic, one of the 30 in washington, d.c., how many have insurance? guest: probably about 3% have

private insurance. some would have medicaid or medicare coverage. the district of columbia is quite generous. it has the alliance program. many of the people who come to us are economically challenged as well as socially challenged. unity can provide not only the health care, but the wraparound services. many people, the majority would be under the poverty level. if they do come and are above the poverty level there is a sliding fee scale. they can pay a little amount towards their health care which is required under the federal funding we receive. host: one of the things we learned in going to the virginia hospital center is the number of contract employees who work outside the hospital at nova fairfax or george washington university hospital.

h a doesow a work get unity? guest: unity has directly employed physicians, midwives, nurse practitioners, physician'' assistants, dentists, and psychiatrists, for the most part. we probably have over 120 of these professionals. they're generally directly employed by us either full-time or part-time. there are some who are specialists who might work part time with us and then work also in a. private generally, we have full-time employees directly employed by unity healthcare. host: we welcome your phone calls. you can send us an e-mail, journal@cspan.org. guest: because they do not have a regular physician to take care of the needs we become their physician.

we are not really -- the quality of health care we provide is comparable to any health care you or i could get in the community. our physicians are well- qualified. many initiatives we do around disease management, health promotion -- all of the prevention, all contribute more effectively to the care of the patients then might be happening to you or to me in our private sector. host: as to emergency rooms, often people wait for crisis, those who do not have a private physician. guest: yes, it is expensive and puts the burden on the appropriate use of the emergency room. additionally, it does not allow for the best continuity of care. it is like on a car. if you are on regular checkup basis, you prevent it needing emergency room. of course, there are always

emergencies that will happen. but going for a non-emergency issue is counter-productive from a health care and a financial perspective. that is why community health care centers across the u.s. are a real answer to this challenge of the uninsured or people who lack direct access to primary care. host: what typically do you see? how different is it because 97% do not have insurance? guest: oftentimes the delay in care. by the time they arrive they might be in a chronic condition that if it had been seen earlier would not have them. we see hypertension, diabetes, hiv, cardiology. a significant amount of mental illness. probably all of the factors that contribute to poor health outcomes generally. health centers are located in urban areas where historically

there has been the lack of access where people are unsure. in rural areas sometimes health care centers are the only access point. we have to become a system of care for a defined population, eventually opening it up as a solution to some challenges right now in reform. the people who come to us, of those there are millions who do not come. that is why i believe health centers can play a very important role in accessing care for patients and getting them connected on an ongoing basis. we need to remember that the health insurance card does not guarantee that you have access. there are 47 million that we're hearing are uninsured out there. bringing them into the system will be the challenge and insurerinsuring that the systemd

doctors are there for them. host: what they want to hear as obama addresses the houses? guest: a solid effort toward reform. that would be recognizing that the 47 million uninsured people will be able to find access. the costs will escalate. do you or i need specific reform in insurance? probably not, although we will admit that our premiums and coo- pays are becoming more expensive. i also run a business and might cost for my employees is going higher. we also want to see the president provide a commitment to ensuring that when reform of whatever nature -- there will be physicians and facilities there to care for this influx. of new influx host: our phone lines are open. vincent keane is the president and ceo of unity healthcare.

good morning, caller. caller: i want to comment on the important aspect of health care that no one is discussing. i saw the rand report. healthcare is killing the economy. whirlpool went to mexico. 1200 jobs. it cost them $2 million per year for health care. we have probably lost 10 million jobs in industry because of health care. insurance companies are obese. i think that chuck grassley is right, that they should be euthanize. people do need health care. unless a solve the problem of how to pay for health care, insurance companies are not doing it. and a capitalist. i want american companies to succeed. and they cannot do it with this

insurance. it has to be changed. it is revolutionary. guest: thank you very much. but a very good question. the cost of health care -- is bad enough now, but if we do not do something it will only get worse. as we are hearing from the key players, the cost is going up. there's no sign that will be brought under control. reform has to happen around the insurance industry. it also has to be a cost- effective way to provide that care. particularly to communities you live in and in urban areas throughout the u.s. that system is not always there to address the need. host: our guest is vincent keane and our next caller is jeff, here in washington, d.c. caller: good morning. mr. keane, it is refreshing to

see you on c-span and thanks for coming. it is very important to have folks from the grassroots level and those who are working in the trenches, not to talk about medical policy at this time. i hear a lot of channel noise from people who are not involved in the actual dispensing -- dispensation of medical care. many people from the so-called grassroots are protesting the medical policies of the current administration who has only been in office a fraction of this year. yet we expect these gigantic popular decisions from the obama administration. let me get to the point -- i see

all these political pundits and appointees giving all this leeway and policy development -- more than anyone in the trenches during the war. i have worked all my life and have been under-insured. i recently had this surgery. the surgery was about $20,000. prior to that, talking about preventive care, i had fallen on my wrist about 20 years ago. i went to georgetown university. i had a job working at georgetown university. the doctor told me i had a sprain, did not need surgery. i think this was a result of them perceiving that i was uninsured. at the time i had blue cross blue shield. apparently blue cross blue shield did not want to cover that level of care. host: let me jump in because others are waiting with questions.

did you have a question for our guest? caller: yes, that is -- what level of service does unity healthcare offer? guest: thank you. sorry about your wrist. it is not uncommon for people who have -- for people uninsured to have delayed treatment, but you were injured. we provide all the basic primary services you would need from a doctor, dentist. if you needed some case management or mental health therapy. what we do not offer specifically ourselves is inpatient hospital care or surgery. however, our doctors and support staff to arrange for that and make sure there is referral. then, depending on the coverage you have as to whether or not you will be covered under the district 1 alliance, medicare,

medicaid -- but if you do not have insurance, unity has a long track record of working with volunteer providers. the hospitals are very generous and allow us to serve as patients who are uninsured. it is getting more difficult in a difficult time to do with the second level of care. but we can take you all the way to that and can sometimes do more than you can imagine. host: here is a common for you. do you feel that your organization and cooperatives like repeled are ready to scale to handle 50 million more? guest: that is a very good point, and that is the challenge. right now, no. the president has already seen the value of community health care centers by allocating a lot of money for capital in the stimulus. yes, we are ready, willing, and able.

however, it will have to be phased in. there are several billions of dollars that are needed for capital development so that the federal government and local states will have to support that effort. there is the need for about 20,000 primary-care physicians. entities like unity throughout the u.s. are working with the federal government through the national health service corps to fill those so that patients get the primary, a brick care when they need it at the right time, and in the right manner. yes, we are ready and are planning by 2015 to be a will to serve 60 million. today we served 18 million throughout the u.s. host: good morning, republican. caller: good morning. i wanted to say i don't think it is the government's responsibility to provide health care for anybody, nor is it the

responsibility of business. host: so, who's responsibility is it? caller: it is the person's responsibility, his own self. that is what they call them benefits. host: do you get health insurance? caller: no, only through the v.a. host: who provides that? caller: me. it is a co-pay. host: you say that even businesses coulshould not provide health care. but could you afford health care if businesses did not provide it? caller: nejd. nobody, i would not go. that is my responsibility. -- no. guest: that is unique opinion. i noticed you called on the

republican line. i think it is important to look at this not from the partisan perspective. the program i have been outlining has a wonderful bipartisan support. they're not many people, programs in the u.s. senate that are supported strongly by senator orrin hatch and the late senator kennedy. they have -- historic way this program has had bipartisan support. they realize the need for government to step in when people cannot do it for themselves. i disagree obviously with the caller. i do think it is the responsibility of the government to arrange for, but not to provide it. host: here is a message and question from twitter. guest: no, no one literally is turned away. the problem is if someone comes

in with an emergency problem that we cannot handle. they would be referred to the emergency room of the local hospital. under law the emergency room would have to treat them. we will go so far as caring for them, however, if it is determined by the physician beyond our capacity as an emergency, as with someone having a heart attack, we will stabilize as we can until the ems would get there. i don't know if the caller is asking if they get treated? yes, they do. the question is if we have the capacity to treat a particular ailment that comes before us. host: the last few days we took a look at how medicare works. sunday's show included a conversation with a doctor from the va hospital. next sunday will be t.r. reid

with his new book on health care in america. you can go to our website to click on the site and look at the town hall meetings. the me ask you about medicaid. -- let me ask you about my kid. who qualifies? what is the reimbursement received from the federal government? guest: medicaid is partly federal funded and parlayed state funded. it is excellent, has been around nearly 40 years. it is some guarantee for poor people who are uninsured to access healthcare a. it is important to know that not every poor person is covered. there are state regulations as to who gets covered. generally speaking, disabled, pregnant women with children are usually covered. each state determines the level

of coverage with the pro- government. unity and health centers like best do get reimbursement for medicaid services. we get a pps rate, in other words, a rate that is supposed to cover all the costs we provide to the person on the. the visits -- on the outpatient visit. that is required by federal law. who accesses bit? there are a significant number. it is generally a solid payments system -- who accesses it? they are turned to expand medicaid which is a public option to include more people. -- they are trying to expand it. when people come into a benefit like medicare or medicaid, the

ability for routine care is key to long-term success and also to cutting down costs at the back end. i do believe medicaid it is a key to reform. it is an important component to maintain. on the other hand, there has to be inappropriate reimbursement for physicians. many physicians do not produce a pay because they do not feel that the reimbursement is worth it. we need to make sure more are covered. i do believe it would be an answer to the challenges of health care reform payment. host: how the someone born in ireland who went to school in dublin end up in healthcare in washington, d.c.? guest: good question. i was a catholic priest for about 19 years in northern virginia. i left and have been working at unity for the last 22 years.

i have a big mouth and people like to hear me talk. i'm always glad. basically i'm really committed to the work of community health care centers. i spent 20 years with sharing the gospel and i believe there are the challenges of providing health care better very much gospel-driven. host: what is the difference of being a catholic priest and the president of unity healthcare? guest: the biggest challenge is seen that what you're doing is worth while. also, that you do not get discouraged. it certainly is a discouraging, but exciting time. the biggest difference is that i'm married now and i was not them. host: gloria joins us now from madison, wisconsin. caller: good morning. thank you for letting me on. i'm so proud of dr. keane and his talking about the gospel. i believe in that myself.

anyway, we belong to the federal retirement program, the good health cooperative of southwest wisconsin. it is one of the best in the country. but the emphasis is on preventative health care. there are physicians, nurse practitioners, not necessarily md's who provide the service. we also have the electronic records. i think that is wonderful. i am able to e-mail my doctor. i can say this is what is going on, should i come in that i get things handled just by e-mail. the other day i had a colonoscopy. i was able to talk to someone at the clinic after i returned home. i really think this is the way to go. a corporative kind of thing with absolute emphasis on primary health care which can include

things like tai chi. there are co-pays, certainly, but we do not mind. if people understood the president's idea, his plan which is our plan, has choices. if we wanted to change to some of the plan we could do it at a particular time of the year. keep up the good work. i hope the president gets out to emphasize the fact that this is a positive thing. we need health care for everyone. no one should have to be crying because their son has a serious problem and cannot find healthcare a. and finally gets it after petitioning. = inouye, thank you for all your doing in the community health care clinics. host: here's a comment from twitter. -- anyway, thank you.

caller: what has happened in many states, certain aspects of the medicaid population -- they're not privatize, but contracted out to provide care. the jurisdiction is still held by the state body. there are limits -- the word rationing, obviously brings in a host of emotional issues. sometimes under certain plan to have a benefit plan. what is on the plan is limited. maybe in the tub of medications you can give. there are limitations established relative to the cost and it to the appropriateness of the care. there are many experimental things that are not yet proven. there are limits, but i do not see it as rationing. in my work no one who needed a

particular level of care they wanted were deprived of that care. host: we will extend our time with vincent keane who is the president and ceo of unity healthcare which assists up to 90,000 patients yearly here in washington, d.c. it is made up of a total of 30 clinics. but google is to take a look at -- our goal is to take a closer look at these markings. caller: good morning. i do have a couple of question. thanks to everyone for c-span to where the american people, which i am, an american, can voice our views.

first of all, i would give a little history. i did have a job. many american jobs have been lost. it has not been during the current administration. it was during the past administration. i was seeking. cosmetics which also plays into the health of the human body. i could not get it. i was one of the under-insured as i hear about. out of the millions i am one, but i'm sure there are many like me. when you do lose your job due to whatever reason, then you cannot even afford health care or to go see a doctor. then to europe. earlier, when we saw the people

have chronic diseases -- then to youkr point earlier, when we have quite diseases we cannot even go to a doctor until we become totally ill. guest: yes, i could not agree with you more. essentially many of the 47 million are working people. with the rate of unemployment more and more will lose their job and cover. it is clear that coverage right now through the workplace is ski. also, i think you referenced -- it is key. you reference the getting timely, appropriate care can in fact reduce costs, but also of human suffering. host: we have been showing viewers a look inside the city health care clinic, one of the 30. what is the difference here compared to a more rural area.

? guest: the tug of care is the same, but the rural area may have more challenges with hospitalization -- though type of care is the same. the physicians in rural areas may have to spend more time in the hospital. generally speaking, the biggest difference is wild here in the district unity healthcare centers tend to focus on an uninsured and public benefits, out in the rural areas there would be more utilization of private insurance. . .

>> the goal would be to ensure that compensation is appropriate by all providers to address the real needs of the people. host: this tweet says -- guest: that is always with community health centers or any places that are publicly funded a perception of them being a kind of free clinic. you can go into any of our

centers, the one i think that you have done the role here on this morning is a health center supported by a grant and is called a center of excellence. so the issue is the quality of care provided there is second to none. i think what we have to do is eventually in the healthcare reform look at community health centers not just as a place where uninsures can go but attracting people with private insurance to come in. there is definitely a sigma because the facilities don't look as good as they might in the private sector but that is something we are working on and something that the federal stimulus program is helping to do. we are planning to build a renovation to our clinic in northwest washington. host: canyon lake, texas, on the republican line. caller: good morning. i think obama and all his

democrats and liberals and people like you want nationwide healthcare. why don't you and obama and everyone donate the money for it? that is the simplest way. obama has a bench of filthy rich democrats much they can get rid of their money for the people. i won't trust obama and his voters that torture and murder american babies every single day with the healthcare and lies. my mother, my father, my grandparents,. guest: i have an -- i don't have an answer to the question. caller: good morning and thank god you have community healthcare clinics where you are. i live in rural missouri, i'm a veteran, i take offense to what that man just said. i'm a christian and i believe in the lord and i don't believe in

abortion either. but i'm a democrat and i voted for obama and i think he is a great man. anyway, getting back to what the healthcare issue -- first i want to make a comment, then a question, please. my comment is this. if -- they need to pass a law first to make insurance companies a nonprofit organization. secondly, a lot of these healthcare delivery systems of material and equipment and whatnot need to have a lower percentage of cost as far as -- in other words, as far as private and none should ever be object the stock exchange. i do receive -- i'm totally disabled. i receive social security

disability but i'm below the poverty level. up until recently, until january, i have been out of the service for about 28 years, and what has happened is i was getting -- the state pays for my medicare and i was receiving medicaid only for like the last four or five years. first i started paying into it and it was a little bit above their thing -- host: i have to jump in because so many want to phone in. quick question. caller: the situation is they want to carjack me $109 out of my -- they want to charge me $109 out of the $123 i receive from v.a. guest: caller, i really, not knowing the specifics of your

situation, if you are still listening to me and i don't know if you have access to a web or not. if you are living in missouri i would suggest that you call the missouri primary care association. they are kind of an affiliate of our national organization. they would be able to help you perhaps with just giving you the guidance you are talking about because i'm not sure whether you are receiving v.a. services or community health center. missouri primary care association i think in the capital. that is a good place to call. host: one person we had from tuesday was an ob-gyn from texas and he commented on the disparity of his earnings which are with a quarter million versus an ob-gyn in washington, new york or chicago addressing two or three times the amount. can you address that disparity and how that affects what you are trying to do at unity?

guest: it is not just the disparity in different parts of the country but in professions and understandably ob-gyns personally would make more than a primary care physician. the challenge is, as a result of that, we are losing more and more providers and more and more doctors to the specialty services because they are the better paying. the reality is there are overhead and malpractice insurance that is higher. it is not as difficult for us to attract providers because we use the national health service corps which is a feeder where young men and women get part of the tuition paid off and get malpractice coverage through us. basically our ability to attract prime march care physicians is not as difficult as it might be otherwise. however, the overall specialty like ob-gyn, neurology, that is

quite difficult because again the reimbursements from the public sector are not as high as they might be. and thank that issue has to being looked at. training of physicians. how are they trained and to what extent are we making primary care, which is the entry gate to long-term ongoing care, making that more attractive from a human personnel perspective but also from a financially rewarding -- most doctors, i think, are not will to make money but they have to live and that is the challenge we are facing. host: so, will tort reform on malpractice lawsuits help resolve part of the problem we are dealing with? guest: tort reform is certainly essential, necessary and in some states are different than others. we are actually covered -- community health centers nationwide are could have had by the federal government and basically the federal government does risk management with us to -- the perception that

malpractice insurance is driving , tort is driving the cost and agenda is not quite true. it is 2% of the cost of medical care. that is a high, 2%, if we could eliminate it that is money we could spend elsewhere. but i don't think tort reform in and of itself will be the solution but i think most states are look agent that. but at the same time what you want to do is you want it to be a fair system, reduce risk and at the same time make sure people have rights. host: based on some of the tweets there may be a number of viewers that have tuned in midway through the program so go will you unity healthcare by the numbers. how many clinics, annual budget, how many patients do you serve? guest: we have about 30 sites. some larger but 50 rather large. other 15 in smaller communities throughout the district of

columbia. we have a large healthcare service within the d.c. department of corrections. we also do a re-entry program. we have a network that is on the unity sponsorship in almost every ward in the district. we serve about 90,000 people each year. on average a patient would come to us three to four times sweer talking about over a quarter million appointments each year. we provide not just the medical care from a doctor visit but social work, wraparound services, language and health education and promotion which is a very important part of healthcare, should be a very important part of healthcare reform. reducing costs associated with care long term. then we have about $100 million budget but we're always seeking more resources. right now with the economy it is a little difficult. our private donations are down. also there is some challenge in the district government. so, we are looking to continue

not to have to reduce our services when there is a greater demand. host: erika -- eric joins us from pensacola, florida. caller: good morning. say some sort of government funded single payer law passes, what -- say someone files a lawsuit against it. what would you claim your constitutionality is for this for the government intervention? the second question is say the constitutionality notwithstanding with 30% obesity rates, with drug abuse and sexual issues people have with s.t.d.'s people don't seem to be wanting to attack care of themselves. i don't see why i should be forced to pay for people's healthcare and the third question or more after comment but perhaps a question, is need the only criteria

guest: i think that, caller, not being a constitutional lawyer, i can i will avoid the first one since i'm not sure i understand it. i agree with you there is a tremendous amount of what you might call self-inflicted problems in our society, and i would say, caller, that obesity and drug abuse, all of those things certainly put a terrible drain on our resources. reality is we are paying for it anyway. my question is, the roll of a community health center is to get people into treatment, we actually have a nationally recognized child obesity program. the answer is we don't particularly sit in judgment when somebody comes to us, whether drug or obesity problem . we try to provide the service to respond to the need. we believe in doing that it is the human compassion and ultimately self-serving in terms of our ability to reduce costs

to the district government and federal government. is human need the only criterion? i guess based on my background, yes, need would be sufficient to determine my response. host: call from columbia, tennessee. caller: good morning to both of you. i appreciate your allowing us to come on this morning. i appreciate you, steve. by the way, thank you. i really appreciate being on because i know from his heartfelt sentiments he serves in a hoomtarne and christian way that what america needs to do is take note that it is running out of time. what we are looking at is greed, corruption and a lot of failures

on the american government from all three branches -- executive, judicial and legislative -- to protect the american people. what i realize is that i'm a retired school teacher and i understand that the health reform is a thing that is just openly corrupt through insurance companies and we feel that personally, just like the oil companies that come in and he mean just gouged over 20 to 30 years the american people and the american people have made all the sacrifices. even from the lowest salary taxpayer they make sacrifices on top of sacrifices. and if you look in eccliastes the fourth chapter, we have somebody coming in and trying to warn the leaders, both the

priests an elders you are going to have to get back on the right track and do what is demanded. if we are a god-fearing nation we better say let's get back to the christian principles that we are supposed to have in the constitution and realize we will be accountable and i believe less than three careers from now america is going to find that the enemy is looking at us and will make an effort to do something about it. guest: thank you, will, very much. i agree with you that i think it is the role of all members of society to challenge, to speak truth to power and i also think that challenges like the one we are going through right now, economic, healthcare reform needs, also can bring out the best in us and address our better angels. and i would encourage my listeners and all of us today to

realize the solution is not in kind of polarizing one against the other but in looking for certifies solutions. i have offered one today to the community health center model t. is time tested, good, provides quality care. can we improve? of course. but the challenge is are we serious about working together to pleasure what i consider to be our moral and american obligation to all of those who lack healthcare. host: there are a lot of perspectives. vin isn't keane from the eyes of the community healthcare clinic, we thank you for your time. guest: thank you very much. host: we have more on bernie madoff. joining us at the top of the hour is the author of "the rise anfal of bernie madoff. " we have a couple of minutes.

we will take your comments in a moment but first a news update from c-span radio. >> 8:20 a.m. eastern. retailers are reporting sales declines for the month of august as shop, 10 to hold off on back-to-school purchases. august is expected to be the 12 consecutive month of such declines. vice president pieden talks about the economy this morning. in prepared remarks he says the stimulus program has been more effective than the administration hoped. congress returns to work next week. one job is appropriate money from the treasury though the house has passed all of its bills the senate has approved just four. the hill reports congress will not pass all 12 spending bills before the end of the fiscal year, september 30. treasury secretary tim geithner says the global economy is back from the abyss thanks to efforts by the u.s. and other nations. the secretary will tell his g-20 counterparts tomorrow that the

efforts should at this point until there are clearer signs of recovery. the g-20 finance ministers meet in london starting tomorrow. host: we have about 10 minutes we want to open the phone lines. there may be thoughts that you have about events in the news. the "houston chronicle" has a big story about what happened down there, major fiend but the oil is far down and far off. it will likely require years to bring the oil from the gulf. this is a map of the region in the gulf of mexico off the louisiana and texas coast. as you might imagine, there is a big story b.p. makes a massive oil find deep it the gulf and from the marketplace section of the "wall street journal." some of the details inside the washington times calling it a big oil strike and giant discovery that may hold more than three billion barrels reported by b.p. it is about 250

miles southeast of houston. about 35,000 feet. also new details on the kennedy back. saying the memoir kennedy called his behavior after the 1969 accident that killed mary jo kopechne as inexcusable and the events may have shortened the life of his ailing father joseph p. kennedy. from the new york daly news is the judge john paul stevens has hired fewer law clerks generating speculation that he will retire next year. the first sunday of october we will premier our new documentary taking a look inside the supreme court. oral arguments begin the first monday of october but the case involving the movie focusing on

hillary rodham clinton will be brought up in a special oral argument next wednesday and we will preview some of the details tomorrow with a reporter from "new york times" 9:15 east coast. robert is joining us from brookeville, indiana. stpwhroo i was going to say madoff is in jail where he belongs. so, let's not spend a lot of time on guys like that. it is a waste of time. host: let me ask you because part of the issue is what the s.e.c. did or didn't do. let me read you what is being said on the front page of the "washington post." the top cop for wall street hamstrung by bureaucracy and inexperienced investigators failed to thoroughly pursue multiple warnings about bernard madoff's multibillion dollar ponzi scheme. caller: well, it is like in everything from the presidency to the congress to the senate.

everybody is inexperienced in everything. host: i will stop you there and go to frank in granville, georgia. caller: i wanted to get in a few comments. i was listening to the way the other guy was commenting talking about everybody in the united states needs help. i have been disabled the last 12 years and if not for a government run program i would be dead today. people call me and reading about people trying to get help and having unfortunate habits and cargo on is ridiculous. -- and carrying on isry deck husband. they don't understand how much money we have put in them wars we would have to do to help the people who ain't got no help the

next decade. host: we lost you if you are on the cell phone. a new study on who is working and who is retiring and who is not. the story points out the 14 million americans looking for work a number expected to rise in the jobs report friday for august, a lack of turnover is making it a tough market. pointing out that four in 10 of those workers over 62 saying because of the economy they have delayed retirement. the headline in the new york teams a reluctance to retire means fewer openings. jimmy joins us from colorado city, texas. caller: good morning, steve. appreciate c-span. i would -- i'm a 70-year-old man and i have cancer. i would like to tell you what i think myself about the government. there is only two things these people stand for and that is party and pockets. also, what the problem is, too,

they all need to be in a rest home. they can't make good decisions. i think the american people have woke up finally. anyway, and this tea party, when they go what they need to do is carry some brooms. that is to say to sweep out what we've got right now in our government. and i appreciate your time. host: jimmy, thanks for the call. inside "new york times" and more on the kennedy book, they obtained a copy early. doesn't come out until september 14. in the book he writes about his views of various presidents, sometimes affectionately, sometimes harshly. some of the most critical words against jimmy carter. he lost in the primary to him. harold from westwood, new jersey. caller: good morning, steve. i'm so happy to hear morality issues being discussed. planned parenthood does toen born girls an boys what nobody

would do to a puppy or a kitten. why do we -- why do we treat unborn children for the convenes of the abortioners. they cut often their hands and feet for the sole purpose to make sure the dead or almost dead chilled come through the child. another big issue our president has said higher quality care costs less. that is what he said. that is like saying that a cadillac costs less than a chevrolet. our president reminds me specifically of the trap we weaver when first we start it practice to deceive. host: the president is to address a joint session of congress next wednesday evening. catherine in dallas. stpwhroo --

caller: i have a problem. i'm a veteran employee. at age 62 they pay half of my retirement. my actual social security benefits don't kick in until age 65 -- i mean 66. meantime, i have to live off half of money that i worked 20 or 30 years for on my retirement. so, when people say the federal government says we don't get a raise and we get a raise. back to the comment the man called a few minutes ago and he had stated that they need to attack a broom. it is like president obama is a piece of trash. i'm tired of these people, you know, we voted him in to make change and now they don't want

change. i think it is just that the caucasian people are going to be like in slavery like we were but that is not the case. host: a couple of stories related to a new "vanity fair" piece by levi johnston calling sarah palin money hungry. also from the "new york post" sarah wanted my baby. from the style section of the "washington post" levi johnston giving palin a mud bath with some of the details of what he saw in the palin household. this from gail collins, already opinion in the new york teams the revenge of levi. she satisfies i feel sympathy for sarah palin gimp johnson is a dropout it is conceivable he is not the perfect arbiter of normal families. excerpts of the interview -- actually the entire interview is on line.

a call from romney, west virginia. caller: good morning. just a few comments about the healthcare reform that everybody is in the air about. as you look at the overall view of this, i see two things congresses needs to do which is put term limits on themselves. then the other thing is lobbyists who bombard congress on a daily basis, too much influence. next tort reform, control the costs. fourth, regional medical centers set up for recipients of medicare, medicaid similar to the v.a. to curb cost and control t. i appreciate it and thank you for c-span. host: where is romney? stpwhroo eastern panhandle, posse comitatus handles. host: we have a story about the republicans may be vital to obama in afghan war saying as the president prepares to decide

whether to send additional troops the political climate appears increasingly challenging to him leaving him in the awkward position of relying on the republican party for support. a simple political narrative on the afghan war that this was a good war in which the u.s. would hunt down the perpetrators of the september 11 attacks has faded. details from inside "new york times." the situation in japan relation was that country and new prime minister expected to take over later this month as there is a change in the japanese diet. we will have a report from that to learn more about what the elections in japan mean for the u.s. and what will happen in that country as the washington jrnl continues this thursday morning, -- the washington jrnl continues. we are back in a

>> the associated press reports vice president beside,in a peach this morning will say that stimulus spending has been more effective than the administration hoped. we will have live coverage of his speech at 10:00 a.m. eastern right after "washington journal" here on c-span and c-span radio. also at 10:00 a team of observers back from afghanistan discuss the recent elections there. live coverage for the center for stroig and strategic >> supreme court week starts october 4 with a debut of our

documentary on the highest court in the land. here is the producer on the project. >> today is one of our final days of shooting the documentary. we have been in there about two months in the different rooms and spaces of the court as well as talking with nine of the justices about their job to give us an inside window on how the court operates, the processes of the court and humanizing it. we are grabbing a couple of final shots to add into the documentary. >> supreme court welcome starting october 4 on c-span. "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome michael with the center for strategic and international studies and associate professor for international relations at georgetown university. elections in japan, what are the results and what do they main for the u.s.? >> big historic victory for the opposition the democratic party.

308 seats out of 480 it the lower house. so, they have thrown out the old liberal democratic party, conservative party that ruled almost 50 years. not clear what it means for the u.s. probably no basic changes but the reason we don't know for sure is this was an election about throwing out the old guys. not clear whether there is a mandate to manufacture forward. the new leader has said he wants to continue u.s.-japan relations but there are differences that we have had. host: what does he bring to the table? guest: he is a graduate of stanford university. his grandfather was the first prime minister of the liberal democratic party in 1955. he is very cerebral. he is not a powerful politician. voters who came out of the polls said, 3% said they voted for the party because of him.

so he prides over a group of -- prides over a group of different people. it is not clear how long he will be in charge. many think the power behind the throne is mother man who is the sort of karl rove who orchestrate and designed the >> this article points out this was in large part about the bureaucracy in japan. can you explain? >> the japanese government, the booker si, is very powerful. for americans it is hard to appreciate how much in a country like japan the bureaucracy makes decision persist people's lives. that worked great for them. they rose from the ashes to be one of the wealthiest in the world. but the last 15 years it has slowed down. people are anxious about their future and they have lost faith in the government.

so it is popular for politician toss blame the bureaucracy and beat them up in the elections as the democratic party did. they said we will let the politicians run things. not that simple. japan doesn't have a lot of think tanks or expertise. the bureaucrats have a lot of the information. it will be interesting to see how much the politicians tame the bureaucrats. host: we are talking about the elections it japan and the incoming prime minister will take over the middle of the month. michael green teaches at georgetown university the japan chair for csis and from "new york times" these numbers. of the 208 democrats elected sun, 143 are first-time lawmakers. of the rest only a handful ever held a cabinet post and they have few outside source toss help. japan doesn't have the u.s.'s vast number of reeverage group with -- research groups and unlike capitol hill they also

lack the large staff of aides knowledgeable of policy issues. guest: i think them focus on a couple of bureaucracies that affect people's daily lives. the ones that administer the pension fund. their equivalent of social security. a few years ago that bureaucracy lost 50 million pension accounts. so the voters are pretty mad. i think that is where the politicians will focus and start whip being the bureaucrats into shape. other areas like foreign policy, defense, financial affairs, very technical. i suspect they won't try to tenger as much because that is not -- they won't try to tinker as much. host: we will get to calls and emails in a moment. you have the liberal democratic party and democratic party. can you explain where the ideology is? guest: the liberal democratic party is the more conservative party and the democratic party was formed about 15 years ago.

for most of japan's history they had the liberal party dominating and socialist party during the cold war on the left that was never that powerful. after the cold war we u.s.-soviet competition ended ideological competition changed and you had more parties emerging in japan and the emergence of a competitive two-party system. now the opposition has won. while people are not sure what the future brings people are hopeful they will have something like we have with republicans an democrats where the voters have two realist technique choices between parties that they can choose from. host: hatoyama said he would fire every bureaucrat then backed away from that. why? guest: because the japanese politicians don't have a lot of experience, very few have been in government.

they don't have any tanks. they need the bureaucrats. that is why i think peck a few to fire, punish, whip in shape but chances are they will have to rely on the bureaucracy to get things done. that is why the people are excited they have thrown out the party and they will take it to the bureaucrats but they will have to get the bureaucrats to provide the information and sprs to run the country. host: how is japan's economy doing? guest: not very well. it has been the hardest hit of the major industrial economies and they have been in a slow growth pattern about 10 years, less than 2% a year, which is pretty anemic. on the other hand there are incredibly competitive japanese companies. just look at prius by toyota or sharp or sony. so they have a lot of strong high tech industries but there are a lot of problems in the economy. people are worried their income is notting if up. it will sound familiar to americans. but that is what a lot of japanese are going through and

have been for some time. host: we were looking at a map. north and south korea neighbors to japan. does this election and our relation with japan have any impact on what is going on in north and south korea, particularly north korea? guest: not so much. the japanese government is deeply anxious about what north korea is doing. the north koreans we know tested nuclear devices. they have over 200 missiles aimed at japan and they have kidnapped dozens of japanese over the years, just innocent kids on the beach scooped up. there is not a lot of room for good will and it do not seem north korea will be particularly forthcoming with the japanese. host: for michael green our first call is james in washington. caller: good morning. i'm calling to ask if you think that the strong reaction in the u.s. media to this election is evidence of the historical role

that japan has played along with taiwan and south korea as a sort of u.s. client state, japan being the strongest of the three ? guest: there's been a really remarkable amount of u.s. media interest in this election. japan hasn't gotten that much attention. 15 to 20 years ago when the japanese economy was very strong people worried about japan. there were opinion polls in the u.s. in 1988 where more americans said they were afraid of japan than the soviet union because of the powerful japanese economy. this election, because it is so historic, has brought a lot of interest, which i think is good. i don't think this election fundamentally changes the strength of our alliance with japan. it is good we think about how important japan is to us as an ally. it is the second largest contributor of funds to the world bank. we host our major military bases

in asia and japan and work closely with the japanese on everything from climate change to global development to afghanistan. so, the elections brought focus on japan and i think it is good people remember how important this relationship is to us in asia which is becoming the most important region in the world. host: one view we found from the financial times, that the japanese society has altered and that 70% of the electorate voted? >> very high turnout. there are very good things about the election. one, the japanese people really have demonstrated that they want control of their government and control of the future. they have broken the hold of this conservative party which did a lot of good things for the party but was rerigid and not very diverse. they have opened up new opportunities for women to participate, for younger politicians, more dynamic debate. so, this will revitalize

japanese politics in a positive way and reflects changes. it is not clear what the party stands for. they have ridden this wave of resentment against the government. beat up the bureaucrats. it is not clear what the plan is to get the economy going, what they will do about north korea, help in afghanistan. they have a lot of policy things to figure out. so there are question marks. but it has opened up a new era that is exciting for the people. host: which in part goes to it tweet. left and right means different things in defend countries. how distinct is the difference in japan guest: that is a good upon the. what we think of as left an right is different. the previous government was considered conservative and right. the new government is considered center left. but we you open up the two parties you have very diverse views. spanning from left to right in both parties. so, this is not quite yet a clear policy debate between left

and right with two clear positions. there is as much debate within the new government party as there is between the outgoing and incoming government. a lot of things to sort out. the prime minister, who is very popular, championed more of a free market, what we would think of as more republican free market ideology on the economy. the new prime minister is championing a larger role for government. more social welfare. so there are some similarities but there are some differences. host: michael green who is at csis, teaches at georgetown, graduate of johns hopkins, studied at tokyo university and m.i.t. form are advisor for the national security council. terry joins us from dublin, california. good morning. caller: mr. green, i read recently in the "new york times" that the national debt of japan is about 1.5 times their gross

domestic production. that was a staggering number to me. how does that -- what choose do as a drag on the -- what does that do as a drag on the japanese economy and how does it reflect in our present-day politics where we are really piling on enormous amounts of debt? guest: you are right. the japanese government since the economy started slowing down 15 years ago has enormous debt. the democratic party of japan, to system late the economy and win votes has promised to spend a lot of money over $3,000 a person on average, and create new entitlements and larger government role in social security which will drive the debt up turret. at some point this will cause inflation, weaken the yen and hurt the economy. that is one of the question marks about the new government. will is one important defense 2010 the japanese and ourselves. the japanese people have a very

hey savings rate and over 80% of their debt is held by japanese whereas our debt is mostly held by chinese, japanese and other foreign governments. so, in that sense they are in a slightly better position. but like us they cannot keep running high deficits without consequences coming down the road. host: these are the words from the national journal in which they describe relations between president obama and the japanese government as hitting a speed butch over the issue of the previous ambassadors to japan. when president obama selected john huntsman the republican governor of utah the japanese government had what they called ambassador envy. can you explain is? guest: the japanese have measured their importance in many ways by how we treat china or anybody treats china of the when china gets a better deal

than japan there is a lot of rivalry and jealousy. john huntsman a fantastic governor of utah, moderate republican, china expert, was picked by president obama to be ambassador to beijing. high profile. the japanese wanted somebody who also would be a high profile political figure. they were isn't john russ not well known. but it turns out he is a good friend of president obama, a very astute expert on the economy and technology. and i think he is making a very good impression in japan. and at the end of the day i think people realize the important thing is who can get to on the gone with the president. i think they sense that the new ambassador can do that. he certainly has started off on the right foot. host: david joins us on the end line from outer banks, north carolina. caller: good morning.

how are you? i have two questions for you. first about constitutionality. i'm ignorant about this internationally. while i look at countries that are nonwestern like singapore and japan, i'm curious as to what constitutional -- from your vantage point and what you know, how problematic is it that they don't have the sort of classically liberal or enlightened principles within their constitution that prevents them from going too far and do they have a sense that they are violating liberties? do they have a limitation as far as self-evident truths and the second question, does -- how does the remarkable make-up in their country respect the trust they have in government? because we have disparate groups

that have more mistrust because they come from different backgrounds. guest: that is a really great question and there are whole course persist graduate school on whether cultural matters in these questions of democracy and civil liberty and authority. the japanese constitution was written after the war by a bunch of young american lawyers. one thing the new prime minister has said he would like to do is at some upon the see that we write the constitution on their on terms. the japanese people, you are right about home general nayity and it is, i think, broadly accepted that there is more etc., to accept a certain hierarchy to decision making. but never justin estimate the power of democracy to make

people empowered and take control of their lives. we have done a lot of polling on how asians view democracy and civil liberties and in asia we you ask what is the best form of government people say democracy. we have asked in polls in the future in asia what is the most important norm or value that should guide governments and the andersen is democracy. we have found in a pole in china that over half the people say free elections, democracy, rule of law. so these principles have a powerful hold in asia and i think what you see in the japanese election is that. a growing norm in a sense particularly in democracies in asia that people should have control of their own lives. our tradition is out of rebelling against booker si and against government and guaranteeing civil liberties. that is our tradition. but i think that the japanese, koreans and other democracies are moving in that direction.

it used to be considered bad form to say this because asians have different cultural traditions but it is quite evident in the polling that democracy in asia is having a powerful hold. host: to our radio audience michael green the topic is elections in japan sunday, what they mean for the u.s. we will continue for another 10 minutes. he is with csis. we have the congress, they have the diet. what is the difference? guest: the diet is the form of government they created in the 19th century modeled largely on german and to some extent british parliamentary system. because it is a parliamentary system the coalition that wins the majority in the lower house, the more powerful lower house, decides who will be in the cabinet, who will be prime minister. so, what a means is when they make legislation, when japan writes health care legislation, the government will write the legislation usually and the prime minister's own party will move it through the diet. in our system individual members

of congress as we have seen with our healthcare debate, committees, powerful chairs, really will have the expertise and will write the legislation and oomp the administration is reacting to that. in the parliamentary system the initiative is more with the government and bureaucrats, which is one thing the japanese people are starting to rebel against. host: part of the conversation this morning son twitter.com/ span wj. guest: absolutely. the japanese or korean allies, they don't want u.s. troops in those countries just to have u.s. troops. they want them there for a very good reason and that is that they look at north korea which is developing nuclear weapons, which has been proliferating missiles. they look at china's military build-up. they look at their own

cornerbacken and japanese and other supply lines for oil and they recognize they benefit enormously from having u.s. bases and although it is often difficult for american families or service members who have to spend time overseas, it is in our national interest to have our presence be in the western pacific. guaranteeing that sea lanes are open and oil flows that countries are not building up arms to fight and we have a peaceful environment to continue . . they have been complaining about u.s. bases. we may have to make adjustments but i think there is pretty broad bipartisan support in japan and u.s.or marining this because it has worked well and been cost effective. the japanese pay about $5 billion a year to host our

bases. we couldn't sustain that level of presence if they didn't help pay for the facilities and bases and we would not be able to provide for our security the same if we left a vacuum. host: the democratic party takes over the middle of the month? guest: that's right. host: john is joining us from canton, michigan. caller: i would like to ask your guest what he thinks about the new government if they are going to continue to supply the healthcare subsidies for the japanese industry, which gives them a big disadvantage. because it gives a big disadvantage over the american industries especially manufacturing which allows them to increase their research and development and why so few japanese citizens buy american cars but we sell millions offense here. i would like your answer to that. guest: well, japan's healthcare and pension systems are more

comprehensive, cover more than ours but they have a lot of problem . there is no healthcare system that not confronting problems because you face this tension between the quality of the care and how broadly you cover and it is more expensive. so, there is a lot of demand for changes in their system as well. japanese autos are obviously very popular in the u.s. but for about 15 or 20 years large numbers of those are not built by japanese workers but american workers. most of the nissan, toyota, hondas in the u.s. are built in tennessee or kentucky or ohio. the united states is very competitive in japan in some industries. airlines, microsoft does very well. we have a lot of competitive industries. it has been hard for our auto companies because for many decades the japanese protected their market. that is opening up. there are opportunities. but that long history of a

protected market makes it hard for the auto companies. it is one thing that the u.s. embassy and u.s. government is pushing to make sure that our auto consist sell there. it is hard to overcome that historical deficit. and it is worth remembering a lot of the japanese cars we see in the united states are built by american workers in the u.s. host: what is the population of japan? guest: it is a hundred and some million. half ours. host: how many members in the diet? guest: 480 in the lower house which just had the election. host: out of that, 308 are democrats. guest: yes. a big victory. in our u.s. senate we talk about 60 seats as the miami number where you can pass things and get past filibusters. for japan it is two-thirds. they can override the upper house opposition and move things through . they didn't quite get two-thirds. host: how many political parties in japan? guest: well, lots actually.

and the beg ones are the liberal democratic which is second biggest. the democratic party which is now the biggest. then you have smaller parties, japan new party, clean government party. and when you watch japanese tv debates each party gets a chance it make its case and you find these obscure parties like the u.f.o. party that campaigns pledges to welcome aliens to earth or small religious sects so there are dozens of pares but four or five big ones. host: for michael green maurice from wilmington, north carolina. caller: good morning. thanks for c-span. my question, you touched on it earlier, i wanted to know with the japanese participation with the united states in iraq and afghanistan, contributing troops, to what extent will the new party move to amend the

nonaggression aspects of the constitution? guest: that is a really important question. the japanese constitution, which we wrote after the war, has article nine in which japan outlaws war, says it will not maintain military forces much the reality is they have a very capable and large military. they are called the defense forces and they are not allowed to engage in overseas combat. in iraq, the government of japan loosened that enough to allow about 600 japanese troops to do engineering and provide reconstruction. they have sent ships to the indian ocean to refuel our ships, british ships, australian ships that are fighting triumph in that part of the world. so they have started to allow more noncombat roles for the forces abroad. they have done u.n. peacekeeping that. will be one debate in the coming years, should japan

change that ban on more combat roles and on more overseas deployments. this government has a lot of form are socialists and will probably not move on that in the coming year or two. but i think in the years behind that -- in the yours beyond that you will see more changes because that is where the momentum is going in japan. .

the obama team is saying, let's sit down and talk through our interest. the white house seems to have confidence in the poll numbers that show that the japanese

republic is very pre-u.s. and confident in their ability to talk through a new government and create an agenda where we can work together and continue what we've done for many decades, which is really tackling problems today, cooperating on economic development around the world. that is where we will end up. the new government may have missteps and stumbles. they may send some wrong signals, but my sense is the state department are confident this new government will work quite whether with us. >> michael green, we appreciate your expertise on japan. he teaches at georgetown university. thank you for being with us. >> a new report looking into how the s.e.c. mishandled the investigation into bernie madoff, calling it a number of m missed students. a new book called "too good to be true: the rise and fall of bernie madoff," joining us in just a moment is the author. first an update from c-span

radio. >> the labor department says new jobless claims fell slightly last week while the number of people receiving unemployment benefits rose. a weaker performance than economists had expected. and according to the associated press, job market recovery will be long and bumpy. >> more on the don't ask, don't tell policy on gays in the military. dick durbin says they have little time for this issue. representative barney frank and openly gay member of congress, says there is a better shot next year to overturn the ban. >> global post, an international news website, reports that the united states agency for international development has opened an investigation into aelzs that its funds for construction in afghanistan are ending up in the hands of the taliban and house foreign affairs member representative bill delhunt will hold hearings on the issue in the fall. the massachusetts democrat says the idea american taxpayer

dollars are ending up with the taliban is a case for grave concern. >> the "wall street journal" reports students are borrowing more to pay for college. new numbers from the u.s. education department show federal student loan disbursements grew last year to over $75 billion. >> finally, relatives of the victims of flight 93, the jetliner that cashed in pennsylvania on 9/11, are honoring their loved ones with a cross-country motorcycle tribute ride. the motorcycle caravan will retrace the flight's intended path. it it leaves newark airport this morning and arrives in san francisco on nine days, on the eighth anniversary of the september 11th attacks. those are the latest headlineos c-span radio. >> "washington journal" continues. >> erin arvedlund, the author of "too good to be true: the rise and fall of bernie madoff," good morning, thanks for joining us.

>> i think he expected to be caught long before he was. with this report, the inspector general report shows it was a series of almost keystone cop type of of examinations. one hand didn't know what the other was doing. and at one point i think the examiners were given his dtc number, which is basically a tracking agency showing where custody of securities are and they just never checked. >> the essence of the book can be found and i want to share what you wrote. the madoff scandal transsends borders and shows even the savviest and most intelligent people can be duped into believing something that is too good to be true. >> guest: that is right. i wanted to make clear this is not specific to wall street, wasn't specific to the jewish

community, without specific to wealthy people or people of means. it filtered down to all levels of america and all over the globe.

since the beginning when he borrowed office space from her father and decades later she kept an office near her husband in the building on the 19th floor. you went on to say ruth had a pension for secrecy. >> uh-huh. ruth madoff was a very smart lady. she was with her husband from the very beginning, they operated out of her father's very successful accounting practice to start. she had a head for numbers. i think of her as a lady mcbeth

figure. you know, someone as the power behind the throne. however, even the madoff trustee has said there is not enough evidence to indict her, at least not yet. >> host: do you think she knew? >> guest: i'm on the fence. i think she was, she had a head for figures. she was the bookkeeper for the legit nat broker dealer business and had had an account with the internal marketing arm. she definitely knew there was a hedge fund, unclear whether she knew it was a ponzi scheme. >> host: more from the book, bernie would manage your money and promise a guaranteed 10%, 12% or higher in an annual return as long as you didn't ask any questions. >> guest: that is right. one request of investors was that he basically extracted a promise from you that you wouldn't tell anyone he was managing your money. that was very unusual on wall

street, especially, people liked to brag. that was a very distinct red flag. >> host: with the red flags it goes back to the basic question, how he was able to pull this off for so long. >> guest: yes. in the book i talk a little bit with former s.e.c. attorney who is still in the industry. he said that bernie madoff and his brother peter madoff really made themselves available to the s.e.c. starting in the late '70s when congress mandated the s.e.c. to deregulate stock trading. they wanted to break the monopoly of the new york stock exchange. bernie madoff and his brother peter said, we will show you how to do it, your agenda is ours. they were grateful to him and revered him. >> host: you write about pete cox that although the s.e.c. had been becoming more bureaucratic

and less aggressive for sometime, under chairman chris cox, the s.e.c. moved into a weak shell of itself. why is that? >> guest: i think it came from the top. chris cox had little experience in securities and i think there was a reason for that. i think under the bush administration essentially the white house wanteded a weak s.e.c. and they got it. >> host: "part of of the s.e.c. problems," you say," it it didn't employ people trained in finance or banking. those who knew how wall street ripped people off. the s.e.c. had tradition of hiring lawyers, many smart and competent, others just clocking time at the government agency so they could go to work as wall street attorneys." >> guest: that is right. it is a revolving door and sadly it is a way for young securities lawyers to get some experience, learn how the agency works,

learn what it is looking for and then go work for sometimes 10 or more times the money on wall street. >> host: does bernie madoff have a relationship with his boys, his children? >> guest: i don't believe so now, but everything about the madoff family is -- it has to be viewed through the prism of think of it like kabuki theater whereby we don't know if his confession was staged to his sons. we don't know if the sons knew and they are staying silent and saying they have no relationship. so i'm very skeptical about that. >> host: we've been reading a lot about the madoff homes, including the home in long island, but he also had property in france, in palm beach and in new york city. what is the status of these properties? >> guest: the house in montauk in long island has just gone up for auction.

it's not a spectacular mansion, maybe like you'd see in the hamptons or say palm beach, but it's ocean-front property. it's very valuable, so to me that is the most valuable part. i also visited his and ruth's house in it palm beach, the old family estate. also very, very nice, but very subdued and he had an apartment in france and of course the penthouse apartment in manhattan. everything is up for sale. >> host: robert is joining us from winston salem. good morning. >> caller: good morning. steve, i'd like to ask if we could suggest a topic for a program and see what your thoughts are. >> host: certainly. >> caller: why not truth, steve, i mean to me that is where we need to begin. i think if we knew the truth,

all the other things simply fall in place. i don't know how you feel about that. and as far as a politician, i think that i've called myself as eisenhower democrat because of the fact that he obeyed the law and i think we've gotten away from obeying the law. we think because we are are such-and-such we can do as we please. >> host: with regard to the bernie madoff book, how do you want to characterize your question? kauk >> caller: i would like to ask how much fear was there. >> guest: you mean among the s.e.c.? >> host: he must have hung up. >> guest: in the report that came out earlier this week, the agency, the inspector general, talks about a young examiner who

said he really didn't want to pursue an investigation, one of the many into madoff because he was a powerful, well connected person. and i think madoff's position as one-time chairman of nasdaq also maybe prevented the s.e.c. from pushing further. they couldn't believe he would do something like this. >> host: 10 years ago they were warned, why didn't they believe his warnings? >> he testified in front of congress several months ago explaining the warnings he had goiven to the s.e.c. he started as a business rival to madoff. he and his boss were actually looking into the strategy madoff claimed to be using and he was never trading at all. he sent letters to the new england branch of the s.e.c., i think that was forwarded to the

new york branch, but for various reasons, including turf wars and the i.g.'s report and it is available on the s.e.c. website if anyone wants to read it it, it was almost like the keystone cops. the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing. >> host: in his warnings, you wrote about that in the book saying it kept commercial depositor banks and investment banks separate, resulting the supermarket of financial institutions. it was more profitable to do business with hedge funds, instead of everyday lending against their depositor's accounts. how did that correlate to what madoff was doing? >> guest: well, if in fact it was a legitimate hedge fund, i think it could have been a very profitable business. but the fact that he was able to go on for so long was part of the larger hedge fund mania,

which really took off with the market of the 1990s through i guess the financial crisis in september 2007. hedge funds have become a real force on wall street. they account for a huge amount of the trading volume and i think madoff was seen as one of of these billion dollar funds among many others and for that reason perhaps he wasn't as scrutinizeded as much, but under the obama administration, hedge funds will have to register if they are larger than $30 million in assets, at least if that part of the bill passes. >> host: what motivated bernie madoff? >> guest: i wish i knew. i think he got a rush out of getting away with it. i think also he liked giving wealthy people or people with

means what they wanted, which was good returns, consistent returns and as a result he was able to travel in very elite circles. >> host: loretta from cleveland. good morning. >> caller: good morning. good morning. i know the question is being asked how did he get away with this for so long. i think this goes straight to the fact that he's white. he has privilege and prestige and he's plugged in to the good-old-boy network that puts greed and profit over obeying the law. and we have seen this run a muck ever since bush came into office. we have it with enron. we have it with the

communications company, i can't think of the name right now. >> guest: worldcom. >> caller: yep, yep. you can look straight down the line and you can see all of of these people that made gazillions of dollars and they are not being lookeded at to see whether they obeyed the law in order to make those profits. >> host: which is one conclusion from the inspector general. >> caller: that is right. i wish i could disagree, but she is right. the question is whether more regulation is required or not. sometimes i'm on the fence about it. i think more regulation can hurt the small advisor and i think if the rule his been enforced and in fact the s.e.c. had done its job in the first place nfact, in this report, the inspector

general says the s.e.c. could have caught madoff in 1992. i thinklet rules were in place, they weren't being followed. >> host: our guest is erin arvedlund, the book is called "too good to be true: the rise and fall of bernie madoff." in your first piece on bernie madoff, it came eight years ago; correct? >> guest: right. story for barrons magazine written in 2001. i got a tip from a very good source of mine. his name is ken nakayama, working at deutsche bank. he pointed me to one of these feeder funds or fund of hedge funds as they are sometimes called, which it turned out was the underlying portfolio was being run by bernie madoff. >> host: have you ever met bernie madoff? >> guest: no. i interviewed him on the phone and i spoke with him for about 10 minutes. >> host: do you remember the conversation? >> guest: i do. i actually had been working on this story for a while and was

trying to gin up as much information as i could about him. people were reluctant because they were worried about getting kicked out of madoff's supposed hedge fund. finally about a day or two before the barron s story was supposed to run, i told them, i spoke to someone at the firm and i explained that it was going to run regard and wills then suddenly he was made available. he was apparently overseas, he said in switzerland, maybe on a boat. he didn't tell me much. he said it is a proprietary strategy and i can't go into it. >> caller: good morning. i was curious when this thing broke last year, where were the regulators? and then next question was: where are the regulators of the regulators? where was the senate finance

committee under both democrats and republicans and likewise the house financial services committee under democrats and republica republicans? i happen to be one of those small advisors and it seems like every time something like this happens, i get five more pieces of paper to fill out for the poor guy that wants to put $50 down a month on his kid's 529 plan. i'll ring off and take my answer on the line. >> guest: i sympathize. i think in most cases the s.e.c. prefers to go after the little guy because it's easier. i mean, clearly in the report even i think one of the examiners says he or she didn't want to go through the madoff trading records because it would take a ton of time. well, that's the nature of the

exams and i think as a result i really hope that the small advisories don't suffer because they're not the ones who pulled off the billion dollar ponzi scheme. >> host: our guest is a writer and a graduate of tufts university. one viewer says what motivated madoff is the same thing that motivated his investors, greed. no? >> guest: i would agree for those people who knew they were investing with madoff. there were many people who put their monnewith madoff and perhaps necessary their heart of of hearts knew the returns were far too consistent and he couldn't lose money. that is too good to be true, which is why we picked the name for the book. but then there were many people who came in indirectly, you know, through feeder funds or through retirement plans. these people had no clue that madoff was the portfolio

manager. so in their case i don't think we can blame greed, i just think there was very little disclosure. >> host: he contends not in his testimony, but when he pled guilty, the money went to a bank, he never invested any of it. is that what you heard, as well? >> guest: that is correct. there was an account at j.p. morgan chase, it was essentially a cash in and cash out operation. investors would send him a check and he would pay out redemption from this account. he never made any trades and this was why it was so astonishing, i guess, even madoff said, he was never caught. it would have been very easy to go check with nasdaq or with the depository and trust corporation, but no one from the s.e.c. did. >> host: you write madoff's london office played a large role in helping to hide his

fraud. london may have started out legitimate, but was a place they felt comfortable stashing what they considered their personal fortune, roughly $113 million pounds by the year 2008, which is about $220 million in u.s. dollars. >> guest: that is correct. london was the office madoff opened in the mid-'80s and started out as a place he and his legitimate broker dealer could trade stocks overnight. back in the '80's, even it wasn't that common to trade 24 hours a day. so anyway, by mid-2000s, probably 2007 and 2008, the madoffs were starting to wire money back and forth to make it look as if there were trades. they were also paying for

yachts. peter madoff bought an aston martin. it was really a family bank account. >> host: tom from michigan, you are on the air. >> caller: good morning, steve, you found your niche in life, you are excellent at what you do. hi, erin. good morning. there are a couple things, i wonder if they are loosely connected. that would be disappearance of national bank of of detroit conservative well-run bank taken over in the '90s after this, i believe, regarding this deregulation, taken over by this wildcatters kind of from columbus, ohio, which i really despise. >> host: who took them over, tom? >> caller: they were taken over by bank one. they failed because they were here to pedal credit cards. we have the collapse in '99 of long-term money management. they said the world economy would collapse and i sat there

slack-jawed uncomprehending what they were talking about. we have the society generale in france stealing $7 billion and the ubs moving 50,000 clients offshore. is this all connected in some general way? could you comment in any way on that? >> guest: sure. i can't speak to bank one. i can say long-term capital management set a precedent in terms of bailouts with wall street. i mean, i think ltcm, that bailout made the bailout of aig and some of the other firms we've seen more palatable, at least. i think it is a scandal, nevertheless, but in terms of u.b.s., i can't say whether there is a connection, but it has become harder and harder for investors to hide money offshore. i think the u.b.s. accounts are

going to really again set a precedent for u.s. investors and hedge funds or in offshore accounts. >> host: you wrote about this being, been written $65 billion ponzi scheme. you say that basically was $65 billion on paper. there never was $65 billion. >> guest: that is correct. >> host: can you elaborate? >> guest: working backward from $65 billion, let's assume for argument sake that madoff was claiming 10% gains a year and phantom games we now know, false prophv profits. i believe it began from the beginning, perhapsos a smaller scale. >> host: what year? >> guest: meaning in the 1960s. if we assume he was reporting average 10% gains over period of 30 or 40 years then the actual

dollar amount if you take away all the profits is somewhere between $12 and $20 billion, that is the actual dollars that went to him. now where did all the money go? roughly half of of the $12 to $20 probably came from the fund of hedge funds and those are the billion dollar funds we've been reading about that are being sued either by federal prosecutors or the madoff trustee to give the money back. that brings us to say $6 to $10 billion, that is still missing. there are a number of individuals investors, among them stanley chase and jeffrey pickhauer, who have been sued by the madoff trustee for allegedly taking out more than they put in. these are the people who, the trustee alleges were the big beneficiaries. they account for between 1 and 5. it is a very good possibility there is money offshore.

i think that's what madoff trustee will be looking for next. >> host: our guest is erin arvedlund, her book is "too good to be true: the rise and fall of bernie madoff." jim is joining us from new york city. good morning, jim. >> caller: good morning. i want to make a statement and ask a question. a friend of mine had his money invested in madoff and he showed me his statements. after looking at the statements, the first thing that stood out in my mind was the auditor. nobody, but anyone ever heard of the auditor before. that surprised me the most about it. one way i think he got away with getting these people in, there is an old jewish statement, i've lived in the city for 40 years and i'm jewish. it used to be like: i can get it for you wholesale. a lot of people, he used that trick. i got my friend bernie, he's doing a wonderful job for me, let me call bernie and get you in the fund. that is how he got a lot of

people. and one other -- my question is this -- >> host: before you ask the question, without revealing any of the secrets with your friend, how much money did he lose and what has he said sibs the confession and his imprisonment? >> caller: he's not happy about it, but lucky for him, he wasn't totally invested in the man. he will not lose his house. but he's going to lose a few million, i think, that is my guess. i didn't go that far in. i looked at the statements, but the thing that stood out in my mind, who is the auditor. >> host: go ahead and ask your question. >> caller: my question to you, i don't like hedge funds and i think a lot of them are manipulators of stock. mr. donaldson wanted to regulate them years ago. they said there is a federal law that would not allow the

securities sx eand exchange commission to regulate that. there is allow out there? >> guest: there is a bill that president obama would like to push through and under that hedge funds or advisors of $30 million or more would be required to register with the s.e.c. how that would be enforced is still i think to be decided because both the s.e.c. and -- would like their over perview over hedge funds. this could set up turf battle between agencies. so yes they should be if this bill passes, they could very well be regulated. >> host: if you are interested in reading the full report from the inspector general it is available online at cspan.org. a viewer says seems like the corruption runs into the government agency, how cozy is the relationship between the s.e.c. and the traders? >> guest: that is a good

question. there were reports for instance that some of the young examiners who went to madoff's office over this period of it it looks like 15 or 16 years, would leave their resumes on the way out. currently the relationship between the s.e.c. and wall street is incredibly cozy. in part because wall street recruits from the agency. there is no rule, say statute of limitations on working at the agency that prevents you from going straight to wall street. it is a problem. >> host: this other e-mail says, can the author tell me why the obama administration has not hired mr. copulus in some capacity. very impressed and sickened by the inaction of the security and exchange commission. >> guest: yes, that was riveting.

actually, i believe one of the congressmen offered the job of chief whistleblower to mr. marcopolis, and he hasn't accepted. he has said he likes chasing bad guys, he's a certified fraud examiners, which essentially means that he will go after fraud against the u.s. government and i think seek some sort of of compensation for that. chairman shapiro wants to set up a similar program with the s.e.c. and i think that is one reform under consideration. >> host: if you are navigating and looking for the inspector general report you will find it under featured links and we'll keep it it there if you want to read specific details. the story this morning front page of of the "washington post," their report in the failings of the soo.e.c. and th bernie madoff investigation. gerald, good morning on the republican line. >> caller: good morning n. my

three score years and six, i've seen multiple scandals such as this. the inspector general report talks about incompetence and they talk about pure laziness. also in my three score years and six, i've seen almost no one held accountable. is there going to be any accountability for the so-called civil servants who really created havoc in these investors' lives? i'll hangup and listen to the answer. thank you. >> host: thank you. the story this morning in the business section of the "new york times," how the s.e.c. missed many red flag necessary their investigation tochlt his point, will anyone be held accountable? >> guest: i haven't heard of any for instance, s.e.c. lawyers or examiners for instance going to jail. i also would love to know whether the s.e.c. still had sovereign immunity. i believe they do, actually,

although there are some madoff investors who are actually suing fenra, the successor agency to the nasd. i wonder also if and of them might go after some of the previous chairman of the s.e.c. >> host: next call is jean from los angeles. good morning on the democrats line. >> caller: good morning. i get nervous so i'm going to plug through this quickly. >> host: don't be nervous, we're glad to hear from you and the forum is yours g. ahead with your comment or question. >> caller: first of all, you are all heroes at c-span. second of all, there is if guto google and you put in madoff double bluff there is an interesting article. he talks about the legitimacy of people who invested in the fund. >> host: we will try to pull it up. what is the google search? >> caller: madoff double bluff.

the other thing i think is important is and these are questions, maybe they should be looked into. i understand there is going to be tax write-offs for the investors that will allow them to write-off three years back and 20 years forward. those will be based on pre-economic collapse dollars. i recognize that some of the funds or the money was phantom. and then also there is insurance from many of the people. lloyds of london, etcetera, and i understand there is also an s.e.c. fund. i'm wondering what you have looked into in that regard and also one other issue was i think in that article he talks about a lot of people who invested in the fund knowing that it it was not on the up and up felt that the government would come in and

take over or would compensate people in the s.e.c. was ultimately responsible. i'm going to hangup. >> host: that wasn't so bad, it was? no need to be nervous. phone in again. >> caller: all right. thank you. >> guest: to answer jean, your last question, there is a specific fund, securities investor protection corporation. they're maximum, i believe, for investor $500,000. currently the madoff trustee is administering the number of claims coming in and i think that number so far about roughly 1.5 to 2 billion. he hasn't paid out as much. i believe if you look on the madoff trustee website, you can see he's set up sort of informal deadline running through the end of this year, which explains how many claims he expects to pay out.

as far as long-term capital, i think that set the precedent for expectations that hedge fund investors would get bailed out. >> host: dan is one of of the regulars who tweets us on c-span. he says, all i see is wall street making big money. the only numbers we should see from their is their prison number. you write in the book "in the year leading up to madoff confession, investors started to panic and withdraw $12 billion at the account at the firm. $6 billion was taking out three months before the financier was arrested in december. had the stock market not collapsed, madoff and his scam probably valid continued." >> guest: right. the stock market collapse really unraveled madoff. everybody came to bernie madoff at the same time because he was the only one supposedly not losing money. i don't know if your 401(k) is anything like it was two or three years ago, but if you are losing investment elsewhere, you

will go to where you can get your cash out. it wasn't there. >> host: someone else is calling. shawn in vancouver, washington. you are on the air. >> caller: good morning. front running, front running, front running, the reason marcopolis was ignored, there is gentleman agreement on wall street specialists all front run the tape. everyone was willing to look the other way with bernie because everyone else was in on it in approximate 2004. the s.e.c. reached a settlement with the specialists and they had to pay something like $200 million, which was nothing compared to what they had been stealing from the american people all these years. bernie madoff started off as a market maker and even the market makers on the nasdaq got busted in the 1990s and still they were able to settle. these people, these wall street pigs, are intellectual and ethical bankrupts, your worst

suspicions about these people don't come close to the criminality and approximate sicottic nature of these people. front running tis all front running the tape. could you address that? thanks. >> guest: sure. this is initial suspicion, madoff was front running his clients. that was part of the reason why a lot of hedge funds wouldn't do westbounds them. front running when a broker steps in front of his or her customer's orders. that was my suspicion back in 2001. the inspector general's report as outlined by a couple of different papers today showed that that's what the s.e.c. was looking for, but they never addressed harry's claim that madoff was running a ponzi scheme. they didn't know about the entire floor in his business that was supposed hedge fund.

>> host: another tweet, where is bernie madoff being held? >> guest: down in prison in buckner, north carolina, currently serving 150-year sentence. >> host: from the "washington post," the inspector general report includes misjudgment, not improprietie s. >> >> guest: that is putting it kindly. i have no particular beef with the s.e.c. i know they try and do their jobs just like everyone else, but it's embarrassing when you read this inspector general's report and this is only part of the report. the full report has not come out yet, i can't wait to read it. so yes, harry said the same thing, he testified in front of congress and said, you know, the s.e.c. is incompetent, maybe not corrupt, but definitely incompetent. heath

>> host: our guest is erin arvedlund. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i have a couple questions. the s.e.c., what congress administration actually assisted with setting up the s.e.c.? and if a ponzi scheme, correct me if i'm wrong, is basically where you collect money and you don't really have dividends, so you are not making money, but you take future investments and that is how you pay your dividend off f. that is correct, then that would be, he started in the '60s, then that would be the same time security was taken off lockdown and social security would be the largest ponzi schemer of them all. >> host: first on creation of the s.e.c. in the 1930s. >> guest: my understanding was it was set up to correct some of the obabuses of the great crashf 1929 and among others ferinand sokura had had a federation which helped question

the big wall street bankers and he was one of of the ones i quoted in the book talking about how to correct some of the abuses on wall street. as far as your second question, i've read this in many other places comparing madoff's ponzi scheme to that of social security. so ponzi schemes are pretty basic, just a pyramid scheme whereby early investors put their money in and their monseused to pay later investors. money always has to keep coming in in order to pay people off and -- >> host: where does ponzi come from? >> guest: charles ponzi set up one of the original scams in the 1920s, but his was using postage stamps, so -- >> host: how did that work? >> guest: i believe he was selling postage stamps overseas and he said he could make 50 or

100% investment in 30 days. so again returns were too good to be true n. madoff's case, upward of 10% a year. >> host: the title of the book is "too good to be true," the author is erin arvedlund. good morning. >> caller: good morning, steve and america and thanks for c-span. you might want to get your pencil. i got a couple of good points here. >> host: tommy, can we take one at a time? >> caller: okay. one at a time is the deregulation of the markets and what mccain and bill graham and the repelling of glasspie gel, you mentioned the crash of '29, how much that was a part. laws that the fellow caller called before, that was 2000

pass and it was where it was just a while to look at the hedge funds. >> host: let's take that point and come back with the follow-up. >> guest: sure. i know what he's referring to. actually, i think it was the capital markets modernization act of 2000. but i'd have to double-check it. but the point was that there was a period during the dot-com boom and i guess subsequent in the bust where congress tried to legislate derivatives and also there was a push under chairman donaldson, which one of the earlier callers mentioned to regulate hedge funds. it never went anywhere. and they think once the market recovered in 2002 and 2003, when people are making money, they're less ap t to ask questions and ask for regulation and they think that has come home to roost.

>> host: tommy, a follow-up? >> caller: my follow-up is during the deregulation time also to the best of my knowledge and absorption of the facts is the de-funding of of the s.e.c. also and the changing of the up-kick rules. >> guest: right. that is true. i think the s.e.c. has finally made a ruling on the uptick, they reinstated it it, as i understand. but look, there are always calls for federal agencies to get more money and more staff and better training and i think in the s.e.c.'s case they really deserve it. however, you know again if you read the inspector general report it it seems if they had justice done what they were supposed to do, madoff might have been caught a lot earlier. >> host: who is eric swanson? >> guest: eric swanson was an

attorney with the s.e.c. he was the -- involved in one of the early examinations, i believe in the 2004 or 2005 period. he ultimately became romantically involved with bernie madoff's niece, shanda madoff, they got marry ed ied i 2007. there were questions whether or not he influenced the s.e.c. to not look so closely. this actually clears his name. so anyway, that is who eric swanson is. >> host: lenny joining us from the cape, massachusetts. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i apologize, i have a terrible cold, but i'm fascinated listening to this. i know families in new england that were wiped out by madoff or a good part of their equity was wiped out. the questions i have are in terms of the s.e.c., i think

it's grossly unfair to try to put the blame on the federal employees. the blame belongs on every one of the political appointees that were put in and i know this for a fact because i came out of a mess called buy investment. chris cox, when he was put in there, the former congressman from california, was told by the administration, the bush-mccain administration, not to do any type of investigative work. i happen to know career employees who are married to friends of mine from childhood who said that basically all they could do was do busy work for the last eight years and then prior to that when the republicans had control of the congress and that is why harry -- what is it name? marcopolis who, is absolutely

the white knight that rode in, he was considered a crack, he was considered a goof ball and every basic nuisance to the s.e.c. >> guest: right. >> caller: this is all of a part. bernie madoff is a thief. he is a thief in yiddish. for anybody to say that his wife and his kids, his brother-in-law knew nothing is to absolutely be beyond belief. >> host: we will stop you on that point. appreciate the call. >> guest: i will say to libby that i think marcopolis said it right, the lower-level s.e.c. were discourage friday making big cases. >> host: the video has been on youtube as he was making his way to court where he pled guilty and subsequently appeared for his sentencing. what kind of a person was bernie madoff and what social network

did he have in new york? >> guest: yeah. bernie madoff and his wife came from pretty humble roots. they came from a middle-class neighborhood in queens, laur laurelton. went to public schools and public universities, but i would say by the 1980s, as result of his legitimate business, madoff was making millions of dollars a year. he had a very successful trading operation. again, his legitimate business. and was meanwhile running this phony hedge fund on the side. this really volted the madoffs into high society, particularly in new york, in palm beach and in london. but madoff was a very private person, he kept people at bay in part to cultivate that velvet rope, as it was. that was part of the marketing of his hedge fund. >> host: this tweet said

besides bernie who, made money off the businesses, who were the big player? >> guest: sure. i mentioned two earlier. the madoff trustee, jeffly pickhauer took out roughly he believes $5 billion over the years, so that would have been much more very likely than he put in. the way that he was able to do that allegedly was that madoff would just write down on paper a made-up gain or loss. so for instance, pickhauer received or perhaps stanley chase, raised money in hollywood for madoff, received upward of 900% one year. so once these investors were able to reap these kinds of gains and oftentimes order up losses so they didn't have to pay taxes. >> host: next call from surprise, arizona, ronnie sue is on the phone. good morning.

>> caller: hi. good morning. good morning, erin. >> guest: hi, ronnie sue. >> caller: i have a question in light of the s.e.c. report that came out yesterday which obviously puts a lot of doubt in a lot of victim's minds. i am a madoff victim. it made us realize that maybe we need to look into other regulatory agencies that should have responsibility. and as such we contacted finra a few weeks ago and accounting of their investments. to date we haven't heard anything, just this past week we found out that there's another complaint issued against finra by amerivic securities. in the complaint they mentioned they believe the investment portfolio of finra was invested with bernard madoff. >> guest: correct.

>> host: you said you are a victim, as well? >> caller: yes, i am. >> host: how so? >> caller: i invested with bernie madoff for half my life, about 30 years, and i lost everything that i have. i'm actually involved with a group of of other victims, bernard madoff victims, it is a website where victims, 400 victims have come together to try to find justice and restitution. >> host: why did you invest with him? >> guest: i invested with him because he was rock solid. he was known to be a pillar of wall street and i had talked to other people that invested with him and were successfully withdrawing money. it wasn't a black hole that the money went into. we researched him and did our homework and there was absolutely nothing wrong with this man. >> host: let me read an excerpt from erin arvedlund's book and get your reaction. she wrote, this high level of

trust led smart and savvy people, especially in the jewish community, to invest with madoff over the ensuing years without asking serious questions. they were not driven by greed, but by the desire to invest in their futures with someone they felt they could trust. you agree with that? >> caller: well, it was trust, but it was trust instilled by the s.e.c. it wasn't -- you know, it crosses all boundaries of of ethnicity and age and demographics when the very agency put in place to tell us that our investments are safe, does so, that crosses all boundaries. >> host: how much did you lose, if i may ask? >> caller: you know, i used to say i've been pretty visible in the media and i used to say that and i think at this point i've changed and to say i lost every penny that i've ever had, every

asset that i had went into madoff. we sold the house about four years ago and all that money went into madoff. so when you lose $10,000 and that is everything you have, or whether you lose $10 million and that is everything you have, and you are left with zero tdoesn't matter where you started from. >> guest: i'd like to make a comment about the suit ronnie sue mentioned. it it was filed i believe a few weeks ago and it's the suit is alleging that finra, the successor to the nasd, has their own investment portfolio and at some is point in the past, i don't know exactly when, but that the agency center may have actually had investment money with madoff. so something that will be coming out in the course. >> host: george next from virginia. good morning, you are on the air with erin arvedlund. >> caller: okay. thank you very much.

great book. question about chris cox. how long was he there and didn't he have heart surgery so he really wasn't on the job for part of the time? i don't know. the other one is when arthur levitt was there, he tried to make changes and congress, republicans and democrats both shot him down. >> guest: this is true. i don't know exactly how many years cox @ the agency. he was considered a very -- chairman of the s.e.c. as far as arthur levitt, he actually, his career dated back to bernie's career. they were contemporaries and they knew of each other and i believe arthur levitt has even said he was shocked to find out that bernie madoff had done this. i mean, it's the fact that until mary shapiro has come into office, really no s.e.c.

chairman has had a mandate to make serious changes and i really hope she's able to do that. >> host: mary is joining us from houston. good morning, welcome to the program. >> caller: thank you, c-span. i would like to comment on the question: how did the regulators miss this? i'm an administrative lawyer in a privately owned, heavily regulated industry here in houston. i see a mega-trend of regulators really regulating heavily the good citizens and doing inspections and reports and lots of of make works for people who have no complaints. yet in our own industry, we have some is real bad actors and they never close in on them. they beat up good citizens all day every day for minor paper infractions, but they're not doing the real job. so i don't think this is a surprise. i think when you start

regulating everybody then you are going to miss the main task, which is to go after the bad actors. >> guest: this is another vote for a whistle-blower program, especially one that compensates the whistleblowers, particularly on wall street. i totally agree with you. you know, more regulation is not going to help the small advisors and the people who are doing their jobs correctly and honestly. >> host: from the financial times a quote from the headline from the inspector general's report. "officials approached mr. madoff in some of his financial dealings and the staff, the s.e.c. staff, accepted his seemingly impossible explanation at face value." was there no follow-up? >> guest: no. there was none. i mean, i was reading this inspector general's report, which as you mentioned is on c-span's website.

they themselves say it's shocking how the examiners had the time and they had the capability of doing the follow-up and just didn't do it. >> host: next call david from maryland. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i was wondering if you are aware of a connection between eliot spitzer being touted by the s.e.c. and the f.b.i. because he was investigating the other people on wall street. >> guest: he was actually investigating the mutual fund industry and in fact in this report the s.e.c. inspector general mentions how roughly in 2003 and 2004 most -- many of the agency staff was asked to turn their attention to mutual funds, i think in response to eliot spitzer's investigation. spitzer raised a lot of money from hedge funds. he pretty much left them alone, left most of hedge