we will have a great return on our investment. >> i agree with you. i hope that i am the ground -- i hope that i am around to see it, too. we have a question for buzz from the museum of science in boston. this question is coming to you from 8-year-old marcus from massachusetts. . . 8-year-old marcus. take it easy on him, marcus. >> hi, buzz. my name is marcus. i am eight years old. i would like to go to mars one day as engineer or scientist. what should i study in school, what topics are good to learn a astronaut? >> when i was at m.i.t. i lived in north sichuat not too far

from cohassett, and i know where you're coming from, and you need patience. you need to communicate with other people. you need to have, i think, something that separates you from others. you will have an evaluation of considerable weeding out of other people that are trying to do the same thing you want to do. let me ask you. you say you want to go to mars? >> mark us? marcus? >> yeah? >> how long do you think you'll stay when you get there? >> i don't know. >> oh, i don't know. stay? >> stay? that's a normal answer. there was somebody at some event and he said my son is 8, and he's going to go to mars. i said how long do you think

you're going to stay? he said a couple of days. he said it may take you a better part of a year to get there, why would you only want to stay a couple of days? why would we want to invest all of that money in sending you there and bring you back. you're not going give us that much skience in return. nobody's going to build a 50-person spacecraft to send the first people to the surface of mars. there is a critical number of people that need to be there to do the things, to make a sustaining group that is bigger than six. it's maybe 50 or 60, and do you know how long it takes to accumulate 60 people? every 26 months you can send another mission to mars and it takes 22, 23 years to accumulate enough people. we need to re-think a good bit about are we really ready to

venture out that far and what does it really take? i think we're ready to think about that, but we have a pathway that can branch off to asteroids that if someone discovers something important at the moon and i'm not sure what it is that justifies the investment and habitation for people of a nation that by that time will have stayed on the moon 50 years ago. do you realize that from kitty hawk to tranquillity base was 66 years. now let's go 66 years into the future. that's 2035. >> marcus, you'll be -- we don't want to be kicking up dust back on the moon. marcus, i think we'll be doing some real man-to-man talking about how long you might want to stay, whether you want to spend the rest of your life on mars or until we come up with warp drive

so that we can bring you back in a couple of days. >> thanks a lot, marcus. we appreciate the question. just before we get to our next question which is going to be for you, charles, but before we get there i want to talk to laura for a moment. this proposed new mission about the one going back to the moon, is this sort of back to the future? tell us what's going on. we're not using the shuttle technology, are we using the apollo technology this time? >> it looks more similar to apol apollo. it's a capsule and this time we'll be sending four people back to the moon and they'll be writing in this point separately from their capsule and go down to the moon and right now with an orbiter, an unmanned orbiter in orbit around the moon we're taking pictures of prospective landing sites. they had very pro-resolution images when we went there with apollo. we'll make an incredible map of the moon and you can go online and see some of those first pictures right now and know

exactly the most interesting places to go and the safest places to go and the places where there might be things we can use to live off the land once we get there. >> we have a much better maps of mars than we do of the moon. >> that's absolutely true. right now the instruments that are in oshity on the moon just got there a couple of weeks ago will change that and they'll be just as good, if not better than our maps of mars. this is from the american museum of natural history in new york. this is for charles. anna? >> having spent 20 hours outside the lunar module, what do you think the possibility is for someone to live on the moon and have support. >> i missed that. i'm sorry. >> what do you think is the possibility of living on the moon? what kind of support would be needed to do that for extended periods of time? >> hopefully we'll establish a

base that if that's what we decide to do is return to the moon, we'd want to establish a base than what we have in antarctica to have supply modules and i think we can develop technologies that will use, that we can use to extract oxygen and hydrogen from the rocks and utilize the resources there eventually to help us to inhabit this area of the moon for a considerable time and i think that's what science wants us to do. there's a lot to learn about the lunar surface that we just scratched the surface and maybe it's not such a bad idea to look for that. anna, i want to talk to you about that later because that's one of your specialties, of course, searching for water --

water in and on the heavenly bodies in the solar system. >> that's right. >> before i get to that, i want to talk to john grunsfeld who gave us heart palpitations not so long ago. i understand that you practiced for all eventualities in trying to repair the hubble telescope, but for heaven's sake, no matter what you rehearse for, what surprises did you find that scared you as much as it scared us? >> as you said, our team on sts-125 atlantis commanded by scott altman trained for two and a half years. a lot of that training were the nuts and bolts of putting things in and out of hubble and much of the training was what to do when things don't go well. we trained with hundreds of different scenarios where that didn't work quite right or that didn't go in. we had tools just for this mission over 400 different tools, wrenches and power drivers and things like that. we got out of the door with the first spacewalk and went to the first major task which was to

replace an old camera with a brand new amazing camera up on hubble right now, the camera three and to remove the old camera we had one big bolt to turn and that bolt didn't turn. with the force we could put on it with the initial set of tools and there was a pretty good risk that that bolt would break and that would be the end of this camera. fortunately, just a little bit of extra elbow grease and we got it, but we talk about the thinking, this is the primary highest priority science on the mission and the very first thing we did and the first bolt didn't turn. my heart was pretty low in my boots eaven though we're in weightlessness. there is a point before we do this game-ending event let's think of every alternative and we did and tried to get around it. >> exactly. this question is coming from the museum of science and industry in chicago. i think we have a moderator there, don't we? >> yes, we do. >> go right ahead. >> okay.

this is for john. >> hello. my name is sasha blakely from vancouver, canada. my question is what do you think is the next main technological breakthrough that's essential for the success of the next long-term space travel to mars. >> the question is what's the next technological breakthrough for exploring moon and mars? i think there are so many challenges that we have to overcome to be able to develop a colony to live on the moon. i think using the resources that you find every time explorers have come out in exploring the earth and exploration that have utilized resources that they find when they get there and i think utilizing those resources on the moon to generate oxygen that we breathe, going to mars and being able to develop rocket fuel that will enable us to come back and to get there.

those are big examples and being able to build life support that in a contained environment such as a module that you would live in, to be able to recycle everything and keep it clean so that you're breathing clean air. those technologies we haven't refined yet, we can do it for short periods of time on space shuttle. we're learning how to do it for longer periods of time on the international space station. as we entered this conversation we talked about a urine collection device. we're taking urine and purifying it into really pure water. i have an example right here. and the astronauts and cosmonauts on the space station drink that water. those are some small examies. i think in the big example we're not going to go explore the solar system where we can go to mars in a period of days until we have some new form of propulsion, chemical propulsion can only get us so far. if we really want to explore our

future and our future is out there in the cosmos and we're really going to need a fusion-powered drive or something like that. it's technology that's totally accessible to us and it involves investment and some time and some creative young engineers and scientists. >> thank you very much for that question. we appreciate it. i do want to get back to the question of water and the solar system. is there evidence that there is water elsewhere in the solar system? >> yes, but i'm drinking some of it right here. in fact, i spent most of my science career heating up samples of other planets and extracting water from it like mars. we actually analyze water modules right here on earth and we know there's water on mars. the moon is a big mystery when it comes to water. there are craters near the poles of the moon where it's dark all of the time so it is very, very cold and there's some evidence from spacecrafts that have orbited the moon that there could be frozen water trapped in those dark places and again, one

of the objectives of the missions that are going to the moon right now is to see whether that is really true and if there is water in those dark craters what a fantastic resource for the people who can live and go back to work on the moon. water is so critical if you want to think about life on other worlds. liquid water is what you need, not frozen water. places like the moons of jupiter where below an icy crest could be a liquid water ocean are places that we want to explore initially with robots and maybe with humans to answer the most fundamental question, are we alone? i wonder if that question will come from denver. the question is for you, laura, this is from the denver museum of nature and science and we're standing by for the question. go right ahead, please. >> we have a question from shelly at the denver museum. >> hi, shelly. >> dr. marcia, i've heard the idea that the moon was formed by

something hitting the earth in the early formation and i wonder if the apollo missions had the hypothesis. >> very good question. you've all heard of the big bang theory. we call this one the big whack. this is the leading theory, the leading hypothesis for the origin of the moon is something called the giant impact hypothesis where an object about the size of mars, mars is about half of the size of the earth, hit the earth very early in its history and the material spewed off in that giant impact actually then accreted together to form our moon. sounds crazy, i know, but in fact, it's the leading theory for the formation of the moon. now when we went to the moon with apollo there were actually three leading theories about the origin of the moon and the big goal of apollo was to sort out which one of three were right and the scientists would get together and they would argue and fight. they brought back over 800 pounds of rocks from apollo. when we analyzed them, we found out that none of the three

theories were actually right and actually from the information that we measured with the apollo samples and other missions to the moon, the giant impact theory has emerged as the most credible hypothesis for the origin of the moon. it's not perfect yet. we still have things that ye need to tweak and understand, so going back to the moon getting more and different rocks, measuring the interior structure of the moon and all things we need to do to nail down whether the moon formed in a giant impact. >> thank you very much for that question. we really appreciate it. i have a home lier question about the material on the moon. i wanted to talk to you about it. >> what is there about the science on the moon that we really cannot do with robots? and especially some international people who may be there who can help the -- help fix the robots. why is it that the united states has to make that major investment? i talked to charlie before and

we can certainly look at this long duration, systems that we are working on. we can look at those at the space station beginning at 2015, 2016 and prolong the life of the space station which many people would like far simpler than we can waiting until 2020, 2025, oddly enough that was my question. and it was out on the moon, much easier. as a matter of fact, we could put a human in earth moon l-1 much safer than on the surface of the moon and he can control the robots on the surface because that's what we want to do at the moon of mars. much more efficient than people who send to mars one day's worth of instructions that are conserve of it so that if the robot there runs into any trouble, stop, stop, don't do anything. we'll get back to you in a day and tell you what to do.

>> spirit and opportunity have very nicely lived@@@@@ @ $@ '@ $ the moon is auto mation. mars requires being there. it doesn't let you go there and come back right away. >> is this the debate? is that's what's going on here? >> no, what i was going to say, from a signs perspective, we really need to unravel these mysteries, we need a network of places around the moon to do a seismic station. you measure earthquakes on earth to studdy the interior of the moon. you could do that robotically. but we also need rocks back from a wider variety of journeys on the moon. you explored amazingly but we've only explored a small part of the moon. we actually need to go some other places. again, you could do that

robotically. i think people especially in the selection of important samples become more important. nk people in the selection of very interesting and important samples become more important and it is a choice we can make all along the way. >> why don't we ask them to find what we're looking for? >> i agree with you, on mars -- >> you don't have to speak chinese on mars, you speak american. i think our first mars walker could be out here. would she raise her hand whoever she is going to be? >> buzz, it's my understanding that the moment has come for you to go to lunch, is that right? >> i think so. >> just some preparation, i already had a nice sandwich. >> just in case you didn't like the food. >> in case i didn't like the white house lunch. >> remember when you're eating that lunch, we all paid for it, okay? buzz aldrin, ladies and

gentlemen. >> thank you very much. thank you, guys. >> that's great. that's great. i had one other question to ask buzz because i was reading an old "life" magazine. i moon an old "life" magazine, i collect them. there was a question about the old lunar landing. i can ask you, charles. buzz was quoted as saying then that the material he brought back up from the moon had a distinctive odor. did you notice that as well? is that true? >> i sure did. it was a real surprise to me that when we got back inside we had not only the samples, but also the dust that we brought back in with the soups and stuff, i took off my helmet and my gloves and picked up some, and the stuff is as dry as toast, of course, because

there's no water there where we landed, but it picked up the oils of your -- of the -- of your skin and it felt like graphite and you could smell it and it had a gun powder smell to it and lori analyzed them. i can't tell you why, but it did. >> she's shaking her head, so i'm not going to. but we do have a question coming in and this is for you, charles, and it is from the st. louis science center. a question for you and it is -- i think we have a moderator. do we hear it now from st. louis? >> st. louis science center. a question for you and i think we have a moderator. do we hear now from st. louis? >> she's been to space camp twice. she's 13 years old from -- middle school. abby trimble. >> my question is what was the

hardest part physically and emotionally in space travel? >> we're having, obviously, some feedback problems. did you hear the question? okay. >> the question is what was the hardest part emotionally and technically in space travel. for me the hardest part was the landing on the moon as i tried to share with you earlier. we were coming in an area that was unknown basically from a landing standpoint. we had stone mountain and the major craters as we came in from an altitude from a mile above the surface, but as we got closer we had to maneuver into an area that would allow us to be almost as level as possible so that we could work. the lro sent back photos of our landing spot with a low sun angle and you see this big

crater behind our spacecraft and we didn't even see it. fortunately, we got over it by about three meters and landed and then looking out to the west it was just fantastic scene, but then we came around and i got out and went around to retrieve the apollo lunar surface experience package and i said john, look at this. it was a big crater that if we would have landed there it would have not turned us over, but it would have been very, very difficult to retrieve the experiments and things out. so that was the hardest part. and emotionally it wasn't hard. i wasn't even trying to control my emotions. i was so excited, like a little kid at christmas and that's the way john and i trained to have fun, but to do the job and to be animated about it all and it turned out to be the best for us

because we worked together that way better. so emotionally it was just a high for 71 hours. anything, any residue after you got back? we've heard that some including buzz has spoken openly about it that there were some emotional after-drafts. >> not for me. there was -- i don't think that anybody as a direct effect of flight had a physical or psychological problem and after you come down from that high and you're, like, now what am i going to do? that's where the things can cause you to go off and buzz has acknowledged that in his book and all of us decided that we needed to do something else.

john young who was my commander finally retired in 1995 after 44 years as an astronaut, 200 5, i'm sorry. so i left after ten years to do other things and so it -- it was the after part and you would have the same problem after the thrilling adventure of repairing the hubble, now what are you going to do? hopefully you have a good mission coming up, but the drive that took you there is still there, you see? so how do you channel that drive? that's the human spirit, we've got to go explore. >> the question coming up now. this time it's from the california academy of sciences and i believe we have a moderator standing by for the question. >> hello. yes. i was just wondering, what surprised you the most about --

scary, humorous or inspiring. >> the question, if i understand correctly, would you describe the adventure that you just gave us a little outline on as more inspiring, more humorous or more scary? >> it would first -- my first choice would be inspiring. not only emotionally, but especially to the kids of the world. they dream. when i was a kid 12 years old it wasn't a space program, and i didn't go out in the backyard and look up into the heavens and say malm a ima, i'm going to wa the moon one day. mama would have dropped a net on me and sent me to the psychiatric hospital, but i did have heros and the great generation of world war ii.

and so now we have that opportunity to inspire the kids of the world to dream and to aim high. the second would be -- let's see there was the -- inspiring. >> and humorous. >> i think the second for us would be the humorous part because john and i had a good time and he's a great humorist. >> my third would be scary and there was only one moment when i had a scary incident, and it was doing something i shouldn't have been doing. so kids, here it is. you always get in trouble when you do something that you're not supposed to be doing or you had practice for it. so we would set the high jump record on the moon, and my backpack weighed 155 pounds is

what i weighed back then and when i jumped up i straightened up when my center of gravity went backward and i went like this, and i had really a moment of fear there because i'd fall own my back and this backpack is not designed for that. fortunately, i was able to roll around and break my fall. let me tell you, that ended the moon olympics. >> for now. maybe later. >> for now, maybe later. and mission control was very upset, by the way. they thought they'd lost somebody. >> and she didn't try to break your record, right? >> did not. >> i thought we were talking about the rover. >> the rover, i was really the navigator, john was the driver. and riding for john, for those of you here with the old race driver, i said here comes barney oldfield and he was flat out on

the moon and we set the moon speed record at the time, 11 miles an hour and we were bouncing like this. i'm glad i had my seat belt on, boy, because the lunar rover only weighed 80 pounds on the moon with the springiness, and it would hit the bumps and the rocks and the little gullies and the small craters and we just bounced all over the place. >> i want wanted to give you all a chance here in the studio audience, this is your big chance if you have questions that you would like to ask of these wonderful people. we'll have to ask you to come to that microphone right over there and while you're making your way, we can tell you there's a question from newseum.org via google moderator and it is a toss-up. it's for all of you, so let's start with you, john. how far do you think the united states should go with space exploration? do you set limits, i gather s what the question is? >> i think there are always limits that you have to set in

terms of funding. what can you afford, but i would say and of course, i've dedicated my life to it that it's the most important thing we do. exploration is the most important thing we do. it brings all of the new innovations and technology that make our lives worthwhile, that's what i believe. >> let's take it on down. laura? >> i think great things happen when we set impossible, audacious goals, and i think that basic exploration is the thing that allows us to do that. to dream beyond what's possible so we shouldn't think about it in terms of limits. we should think about it in terms of striving for that next incredible thing that we can't even imagine that we can do, but we go after. >> one famous phrase, we don't do it because it's easy. we do it because it's hard. >> that's right. >> that's true, and i think the human spirit is the spirit of exploration. that's why i volunteered because i wanted to be an explorer of the first order, and i think in

the future, that spirit is still here with us and will lead us on to more knowledge of the moon and then on to mars. eventually we'll get there. i don't know in my life time, but i would encourage everybody that are studying now, the kids to do their best and to look out into the future. the weak line will allow you to see farther on with a new technology that we would not imagine. i think i hear the voice of the next astronaut. we have some questioners standing by right now, ready. it was more nerve-racking for you wondering whether or not they would be able to successfully land and then come back and was it more nerve-racking to actually be the one there that was landing and then coming back.

probably the -- sitting in mission control and back up and just monitoring.@@@@@@@ @ @ @ @r you don't really have time to worry about, what aim going to do if this thing doesn't work? you wouldn't be there if that were your situation. but listening and watching in mission control, you get anxious. you want them to succeed so much that you get anxious about it. >> i will say, i was in mission control when they were trying to turn that bolt on the hubble mission. i will tell you, people think that scientists are, you know, we're not emotional. people were crying because they had devoted 10 years of their life to building this camera. years of their

life to building this camera that might not get in if this bolt broke. it's nerve-racking. we all wanted to turn that wrench for you. >> my name is a.r. hogan. i'm a science journalist and i'm doing a doctoral dissertation of the space program and i wanted to ask your reaction to what impact the amazing coverage on television of the apollo lunar explorations, some of it at cbs news, of course, produced by robert and anchored so wonderfully and ably by walter cronkite. i can't bring myself to say the late walter cronkite that we so tragically lost him last friday, but can you talk about the impact of this television coverage on the public and also, those of us who like walter cronkite and most people in this room who are space enthusiasts, how can we manage to get those who are inexplicably not, how can we get them to get it why

this is compellingly important for our human species to do, please? >> john, why don't you start that one? >> i'll just start to lead off because charlie talked about inspiring and there's absolutely no question that charlie and john young were my heroes as a kid. i did tell my mom i wanted to go walk on the moon and while i have walked on the moon, going up the hubble three times as an astronomer has been my holy grail in space and there's no question that that inspired me, and i grew up in those 1960s when the two major events in my life were the space program and televisions appearing in american homes. so i think it was that sur end initious conjunction and it might be with these very exciting explorers go off and do something great upon. that set me off on a lifetime of discovery. >> so the coverage was intrinsic to your interest? >> yeah. >> was that also true -- when impact do you think that all of that coverage including

obviously -- >> the coverage is very, very important and the early -- earlier flights, every minute and every second was covered on tv. by the time we flew, hardly any of it was on tv so that my family, my parents and my wife and kids went to mission control and sat in a visitor's viewing room so they could watch us on the moon. and to me that's okay. it's an evolution of knowledge and experience that we get that sort of fades away in the public knowledge, but doesn't take away from the importance of what we were doing. you know, lindberg flew the atlantic. everybody remembers that, nobody can say number two, who flew. the first 747. we have 747s back over the news.

and anyway, it's that -- what we do doesn't distract and from what we accomplished. >> i didn't say that right. i know exactly what you mean and i wanted to ask you this question. doesn't the celebrity of those early astronauts, did that not help to gurd the congress and all of the rest of us for the very difficult and expensive task that lay ahead? >> it did, and that's why i spend a lot of my time now going around and speaking to groups to try to encourage them, to try to rekindle that adventure because the future is the future and we need to get excited about it, and invest some of our resources to make that capital investment into the future for the return. >> another question? >> i'm rita carl, director of education for space science

education, and we fly to the moon all of the time. we have a student from our challenger learning center in richmond, virginia. >> hi, i'm nadia higgins and my question is what are some things that we have learned from space exploration that we can use to help our own planet? >> laura? >> oh, great question. most people don't know this, but right now nasa has 15 spacecraft orbiting the earth watching the pulse of our planet as it's changing and studying the basic physics that drive our planet and our weather to help us predict better how it will be changing in the future and also we send to other planets, venus and mars to help us understand how planets like ours can change and evolve. from a science perspective, we've learned a whole bunch about the history of our planet and how it can change in the future and the technology change from nasa, and i don't know if either either of you want to talk about the spin-offs like from the hubble imaging, for example. the hubble space telescope

helped pioneer the ccbs and cameras. how many people out here have a digital camera? there's a bit of hubble space telescope technology in every single one of those cameras that's revolutionized the media and the news because they're ubiquitous. they're everywhere so people can take pictures of news as it happens and send it in. the technology that's used to make those detectors, the semiconductor technology and some of the techniques on how to build instruments from hubble and the imaging have gone into the manufacturing of those semiconductors and of course, we're all concerned about health care and our own health and some of the techniques that astronomers can use as planets and star forming regions and they're the technology to identify those spots have also been used in medical imaging to help detect cancer in the human body. so it's really a wide range of things from the heart attacks to

the attacks that hubble alone among the many missions that nasa does that have helped us. >> thank you for that. yes, sir? >> it would be easier or harder to find astronauts after the incident in apollo 13? >> for them to -- come forward you mean? >> yeah. would they want to be astrona astronauts? >> were there just as many volunteers after apollo 13 as before? >> as far as who wanted to go? you bet. we were betting the door down. i'm ready to go. that's just the nature of an explorer. >> he's apollo 16. >> he did go after. >> i did go after. we fixed that problem and we didn't think it would happen again. the challenger explosion. there was the crew that followed on after that after columbia and that's the nature of spaceflight and the risk that we take and

there's not an astronaut there that doesn't understand that risk and is willing to take that risk for the next adventure. these are great questions. yes, sir? >> how far are we from achieving earth gravity in space? >> is earth gravity in space vehicle a prerequisite for traveling to mars? what are we talking about? anybody up for that? >> when we're in space we're weightless because we're in constanty fromfall as you orbit the earth and on your way to the moon. as you orbit the moon you have one-sixth the same pull that we feel on earth. the gait advantage of that is just a joy to float in space. it's truly magical and it just changes the whole experience of being human. that's the good news, the bad news is one of the reasons that we stayed healthy is because we get up in the morning and we go out and we exercise and we walk around and that makes our muscles and our cardiovascular

system strong. in weightlessness, our bones, our muscles and our heart don't get enough exercise. our bones get weak and our muscles get weak. so one approach to these along flights to mars, these six-month cruises to mars would be to build some kind of a circular spacecraft that rotates, for instance, so the acceleration you feel is the same or some fraction of what you feel on earth. that's one approach and that's an engineering problem and that's something we could solve. another approach would be to find ways and machinery, essentially gym equipment that allows you to get move exercise working against elastic cords to get enough exercise. just to keep saying over six months, most astronauts like to be gym rats. >> that's what i do to get paid to go to the gym every day and i like that. that's one approach and that's the one we're using on the international space station. one of the goals of the

international space station is to learn how to keep our bodies healthy over the long cruises, but artificial gravity, so to speak, is one other approach. >> i just heard, if i understood correctly what the person said speaking into my ear. this program will be repeated on nasa tv immediately after this broadcast is over, and also, i think, at all of the science centers which are hooked up with us as well. i think that's what they said. we've got another question? >> my name is matthew. one day i hope to be an astronaut. my question is for you, john, what was your reaction when you were the last person to grab on to hubble for the final time? >> good question. >> the last moment i grabbed on to hubble scott probably wanted to come out and pry my hands off it. no, seriously, we made hubble brand new. this was a complete hubble makeover. we put in the wide field camera with a new detector that would

just blow everybody away when we see those pictures. we put in a spekt ro graph that will look into the deep physics. it breaks up the light coming from the different galaxies into its colors that allows us to do the physics and astro fizzix and understands the structure of the universe and light on dark matter. we brought two cameras back to life and we put life-extending capabilities into hubble such that it is almost a brand new telescope. i feel so good about that that when finally i gave hubble a last little pat and a salute, i sort of said to myself inside the space station, you're the man. of course, it's a satellite. and good luck on the voyages and i felt not sadness at that, but incredible satisfaction that we had achieved those challenges and we were sending hubble off on what is a brand new adventure. >> well said. well said. that's great. [ applause ] . >> i have a question.

is it possible to have absolute zero in space? >> no, it's not and that's a really -- turns out that's a really deep question. and a simple question and one that involves physics that is totally outside of our own experiences and it's a small scale that gets down to the question of what is space time and matter, and although we don't have a great understanding of that. the real answer is that you can't achieve a steady state of absolute zero. >> it is still darn cold out there. >> my question is for john. john, you never spoke about what that second tool was to get the bolt off -- to get the camera out. could it have been wd-40 by any chance? >> well, you know, i was thinking about that while we were out there because those bolts are lubricated to prevent them from getting stuck like that. the number one rule i always

teach other space walkers that i'm leading on these hubble flights. i've been up there three times and i learned from the master steve smith what was the third mission, number one rule, don't break the hubble. so when we put a wrench on a bolt we have a device that has springs in it that prevents us from overtorquing it. so the wrench slips instead of break the hubble. so we had the wrench in there and in this case, drew was cranking on it and suddenly that thing slipped. we can increase the torque in steps and we did that all of the way to the end of what we could do and it happens to be 45 foot pounds or so. so what we had to do in the end and we tried sockets and wrenches and we had to take that out of the loop. we just pulled that out and put the wrench straight on the bolt. that means if you pull too hard the bolted will snap too hard and that's the end.

we can't get the instrument out. so we had to go to that extreme and unfortunately it broke loose or came loose just above where the torque was operating so we just got looky. later on, i had a similar one that had been installed with the same tool and when i went to do it the same thing happened. at this time we knew what the procedures would be to get it unstuck. it's still that moment -- is it going to break? >> the line is first do no harm. >> that's right. >> i have one more philosophical question. i think everyone here values space exploration and the value of that, we all understand or we wouldn't be here, but can you talk about in an era of tight budgets, the value of manned space versus more robotic and unmanned space exploration? >> we had part of that debate up here earlier, didn't we? when buzz was still here. i don't think you ever got to

address it. >> let me give you a couple of quick comments about it. i think it is a false debate about it. the truth is there's room and need for both. robots can go right now places where humans can't and humans can do things that robots can't at the moment and much more efficiently. if my friend steve squires is the lead scientist for the mars human eyes and hands and heres can give us the observations

that frankly we don't yet have the capability to get with robots. there's an incredible amount that robotic exploration does. ty to get with robots. there's an incredible amount that robotic exploration does and most of the missions that we do is robotic exploration and it is amazing, but i think there is room for humans in that loop as well. >> thank you very much. i just want to let you know that we have time for, i think, a couple of more questions and you're one of them. >> hi, my name is erika. my little brother hopes to be an astro facisist when he grows up. when you all were little did you ever dream of doing what you're doing now? >> well, i couldn't even pronounce astrophysicist when i was a kid, and i didn't, but i wanted to follow in the footsteps of my here rows which i said earlier, those that served in the military in world war ii. so i decided as a junior in high

school, a sophomore in high school that i wanted to go. i made it there and i fell in love with airplanes and so i became a pilot. so it was just a progression of one sort of step after another, if you will, that leads us to your final careers and so i just tell everybody to dream, whether you will be a physicist, an engineer or scientist of some sort or a medical doctor. all of those are needed in the space program and if you desire to be an astronaut or involved in space, you can be just about anything you want to be. >> we have lawyers and business people, too, at nasa center. >> one more question. >> hello. my mother has called me barney oldfield, but i am looking at all of the arguments for

continuing space exploration and we are getting to the end of the shuttle program, and of course, budget is one of the big mantras. what do we see in the international community in support either with technology or continuing support with the intellectual science fields. >> and money as well. >> let me start and laura, join in. when we join on endevour's great exploration that that is a unifying theme amongst peoples on planet earth and it's been shown time and time again. budgets are this grand adventure that is such an integral part of us being human that we have to do it. great nations or nations of

great explorers. there's no question, if you look at the amount of spacecraft that are around the moon. we had chinese spacecraft exmoring the moon, an indian spacecraft, american spacecraft, each of these spacecraft there's international participation and cooperation. so if there's no question in my mind that if we don't lead exploratie exploration in this country, someone will and i like that we're the leaders. >> almost every one is international these days and you can harken back to the soyuz back when the u.s. and russians weren't getting along very well we were exploring together in space and we can betrayal blazers to nations building bridges through space exploration with science, with human spaceflight and we are doing that today almost every mission we fly as international and that's something we're very proud of at nasa. >> amen.

i love that. one name was mentioned here earlier and late in life walter cronkite and i became very good friends and saw one another regularly. one of the things i remember most was a conversation i had with him at a restaurant in new york when he was talking about you and he was talking about space and he always called it the biggest story that he ever covered, the most important story of these two centuries. he also put it in a way that i hadn't heard before. he said, you know, all of the news i was doing, was there watergate and vietnam, we were downcast. we as a nation and maybe the world was downcast. he said i'm not sure there's a word that i'm going to use, but space -- space travel, the space programs are upcast. he said you had us, you had us looking up, beyond ourselves,

our reach exceeding our grasp and that's what we thank all of you for, and thank you for being here. good night. [ applause ] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] >> president obama talks about his initiatives to help americans save for their retirement. he's followed by the g.o.p. address with u.s. congressman john cline, senior republican of the house labor committee. one of the congressional panels with jurisdiction over proposed health care legislation. >> yesterday we received a report showing job losses have slowed dramatically.

earlier in the week we learned that the manufacturing sector has posted its first gains in 18 months and that many of the banks that borrowed money at the height of the financial crisis are now returning it to taxpayers with interest. these are only the most recent signs that the economy is turning around. though these signs are of little comfort to those who have experienced the pain of losing a job in the previous month or in the previous two years of this recession. that's why it's so important that we remain focused on speeding our economic recovery. throughout america today, tens of thousands of recovery projects are underway, repairing our nation's roads, bridges, ports and waterways, renovating schools and developing renewable energy. we're putting americans back to work doing the work america needs done. and mostly in private sector jobs. but even as we take aggressive steps to put people back to work, it's also important that we keep faith with men and women looking back on a lifetime of labor. hardworking americans who deserve to know that their

efforts have resulted in a secure future, including a secure retirement. for this recession has not only led to the loss of jobs but also the loss of savings. the drop in home values, for example, has also meant a drop in the value of the single largest investment most families have. and the decline in the financial markets has led to dea kline in the value of 401-k's and other sources of savings and retirement security. as a result, over the past two years, the american people have lost about $2 trillion in retirement savings. this carries a painful toll. i've heard from so many who have had to put off retirement or come out of retirement to make ends meet. i've heard from seniors who worked hard their whole lives but now in their golden years are unsure of where to turn to pay the bills, afford the prescriptions or keep the home in which they raised a family. and having two little in savings not only leaves people financially ill prepared for retirlte, but also for whatever

challenges life brings. it places in jeopardy so many dreams from owning a home to attending college. the fact is, even before this recession hit, the savings rate was essentially zero, while borrowing had risen and credit card debt had increased. many were simply struggling to stay afloat as incomes were stagnant or falling and jobs were scarce. that's important to remember. but there were also those who spent beyond their means and more broadly, tens of millions of families have been, for a variety of reason, unable to put away enough money for a secure retirement. half of america's work force doesn't have access to a retirement plan at work and fewer than 10% of those without workplace retirement plans have one of their own. we cannot continue on this course. and we certainly can't go back to an economy based on inflated profits and maxed out credit cards. the cycles of speculative boom and painful busts, a system that put the interests of the short-term ahead of the needs of long-term.

we have to revive this economy and rebuild its strong -- it stronger than before. making sure that folks have the opportunity and incentive to save, for a home or college, for retirement or a rainy day, is essential to that effort. if you work hard and meet your responsibilities, this country is going to honor our collective responsibility to you, to ensure that you can save and secure your retirement. that's why we're announcing several commonsense changes that will help families put away money for the future. first, we're going to make it easier for small businesses to do what large businesses do, allow workers to automatically enroll in a 401 k or an individual retirement account. we know that automatic enrollment has made a big difference in participation operates -- rates by making it simpler for workers to save and that's why we're going to expand it to more people. second, we'll make it easier for people to save their federal tax refunds, which 100 million families receive. today if you have a retirement

account, you can have your refund deposited directly into your account. with this change, we'll make it easier for those without retirement plans to save their refunds as well. you'll be able to check a box on your tax return to receive your refund as a savings bond. third, we'll make it possible for employees to put payments for unused vacation and sick days into their retirement plans if they wish. right now most workers don't have that option. and, fourth, the i.r.s. and the treasury department are creating a plain english, easy to follow guide, as well as a website, to help folks navigate what are often very complicated waters. especially for workers changing jobs who often are unsure how best to continue saving for retirement. because the rules ought to be written to encourage people to save, instead of discouraging them. we'lls a build on these steps by working with congress. as part of my budget i've proposed ensuring that nearly every american has access to retirement savings account

through his or her job. this would make it possible for workers to automatically enroll in i.r.a.'s through payroll contributions and the budget simplifies and expand as tax credit for millions of families, matching half of a family's savings up to $1,000 per year, and depositting the tax credit directly into a retirement account. this is a difficult time for our country but i'm confident that we can meet the challenges we face and leave behind something better. that we're ready to take responsibility for our future once again. as individuals and as a nation. i hope that all of you have the chance to enjoy this labor day weekend with family and friends. but my larger hope and expectation is that next labor day, the economic storms we're weathering now will have given way to brighter and more prosperous times. >> hello, i'm congressman john kline from minnesota's second congressional district. i serve as the senior republican on the u.s. house education and labor committee, a panel that represents the intersection between families,

jobs and health care. i've spent a lot of time these last few weeks meeting with workers, small business owners, health care professionals and hardworking families from rural and suburban minnesota. what i hear from them is what my colleagues are hearing from americans all across this great nation. a sense of uncertainty about the health care legislation moving through congress like a runaway freight train. they ask, what will happen to my coverage and my choice of doctors? will i have to stand in line to receive treatment or get approval from someone in washington before getting a knee replacement or fill in a prescription for the latest diabetes medication? access to quality care in the comfort of a familiar position isn't the only thing on my constituents' minds. with trillion-dollar price tags becoming almost commonplace in democrat-controlled washington, american families are worried about what all the spending means for their jobs. and their children. and their children's children.

one report from the national federation of independent business research foundation estimated that a national health care mandate would eliminate 1.6 million jobs over a five-year period. to add insult to injury, two out of three of those jobs would be shed from the small businesses that drive our economy. if you think that's frightening, i'm sorry to say it could get even worse. using a model developed by dr. christina roamer, the head of president obama's economic advisors, it's estimated that 4.7 million jobs could be lost as a result of health-related taxes most businesses simply cannot afford to pay. no wonder americans are scared. health care reform is being imposed upon them rather than developed with them. and pot tension costs are far too high. .

plan that would do exactly that. our plan increase quality at a price our country can afford. we'll make sure americans who like their health care coverage can keep it. a stark contrast to the democrat's plan which the congressional budget office has said will shift millions out of their health care coverage. so have dieded to go it alone. it could be and should be a bipartisan solution. it's not too late to start over. it's not too late to do better. this labor day folks running washington should honor american workers by hiting the

button on health care reform and stopping the got to the takeover that threatens americans jobs. i'm john klein and i want to thank you for listening. >> president obama will talk to students about the importance of persisting and succeeding in school. afterwards c-span will open our phone thrines take viewer phone calls to get your response. students in their classrooms will be able to watch on c-span or c-span.org. our live coverage starts at noon eastern here on c-span. this, of course, will not be the first time a president has talked with students around the country. go to c-span.org to find when president reagan talked to students in 19 8 and when president bush spoke to students in 1991. >> september 1 marked the 70th

anniversary of the start of world war ii. from polland chancellor and russian prime minister and polish president at 9:00 eastern and pacific on c-span. >> the head of the centers for disease control and prevention on thursday stayed h 1 n 1 swine flu has not yet knew tated meaning thefully hasn't become more dangerous since it first appeared. this briefing from atlanta is about 30 minutes. >> what i'd like to do this afternoon is give you an update on some of the updates on h1n1 influenza. the first point make is that h1n1 is here. it is spreading in parts of the u.s., particularly in the

southeast and in fact it never went away. we had h1n1 influenza in summer camps and with colleges and schools coming back into session, we're seeing more cases. the good news is that so far everything that we've seen both in country and abroad shows that the virus has not changed to become more deadly. that means that although it may affect lots of people, most people will not be severely ill. however, "the hundred-yard blitz" influenza and influenza generally h1n1 influenza is we have to be ready and prepared to change our approach, depending on what the virus does.

today cdc is releasing dish data on some tragic pediatric fatalities that occurred in the spring, and i'll provide you with more information on that. in addition on flu.2k3w06 you can see a report that outlines the experience with h1n1 influenza in five countries in the hemisphere and it's very similar to what happened in this country in the spring. large numbers of people, particularly school kids, became ill. so locations, hospitals had challenges to keep up with the number of people coming in. but overall, no increase in the level of receive severity or the death rate. in these countries, some possibility that indigenous populations were more severely affected by h1n1 influenza that you had a greater likelihood of

having illness if you were the member of a tribal or indigenous population. that's not proven but it's a possibility. this information as well as the child information emphasizes what we should do to prepare, and what are the groups that are at highest risk, around therefore the ones that we need reach out to the most. this -- the mmwr study being released today outlines 3 death that is it were among the first deaths among children in this country. 2/3 of those, the child had at least one severe underlying illness or disability rather than illness in most cases, cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy, long-standing respiratory or cardiac

problems, so most of the children who had fatal h1n1 infection this past spring had an underlying condition. they were some children who didn't have an underlying condition and who did become severely ill and they were generally infected also by bacteria. when you get the flu your immune system can be a little weekened and you can be more susceptible to more infections so if someone has a flu and gets better then worse again with high fever, that's a clue that maybe they should be treated with antibiotics. >> most people that have the tpwhru don't need treatment, and i'll discuss that more in a bit. the review of the several dozen children who died this past spring emphasizes that flu can

be is very severe, and it's important that we do everything we can to protect people from the flu, and i'm going to outline so of the things that we're doing. it identifies groups that are continually important to assist. we have been working to ensure that for example, children with special need, children with cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy, other development disabilities are promptly treated if they develop fever during flu season and are at the front of the line when the flu vaccine becomes available. also earlier today an hour ago the institute of medicine released a report on the protection of health care workers from influenza. protecting health care workers is important. went to make sure the health care workers are and feel safe

when they come to work. they are first line of defense and we want to make sure we do everything we can to reduce to the greatest extent possible their risk of becoming ill on the factors including thousand hospital 1e9ing is organized, whether people who are not severely ill come in for care and overwhelm the stp and how many different health care workers have contact with people who may be infected what's particularly important is circumstances we want to ensure health care workers are safe. the institute of medicine was charged by the centers of disease control and preefpks and by the health administration with looking at what kind of mask or recess operator health care workers should use.

their charge require not to look at anything but their view of the most science on protecting health care workers. we have just received their report and are studying it and will review it in the coming days and weeks. the next issue that i'd like to discuss has to do with vaccination. there's a lot going on with vaccination. we continue to anticipate that the vaccine will be available by the middle of october. the vaccine itself will be free. the administration may be charged by individual providers, although in the public health system all vaccination will be free, we anticipate. lit not be easy to get vaccine uptick 2007 possibility or likelihood it will be a two-dose serious for children

and perhaps for others. we are going to try to relationship out to children in large number and -- try to reach out to children and parents in large number. my kids will get the flu vaccine when it becomes available and i would recommend that all school children get vaccinated. we also are recommending that all people with underlying conditions get vaccinated. people who have asthma, diabetes, those with noorks increase their risk and women who are pregnant. vacks nations will be run by states and localities around the united states. we are working closely with all jurisdictions to help them i have to challenge that is they will face in vaccinateing the people in their area and in addressing those challenges. we are in the prosecutes of --

process of releasing about $1.5 billion in planning and vaccinating and refunding. that would alou some will work largely with the public sector, others with the private don't know what the strengths in their area best and will be able to reach out to the specialty clinics, for example, children with special needs, those with asthma or diabetes to have the detailed planning available. we are also looking closely at the valuable -- we know that every year there are cases of ho there are women who have miscarriages. there are bheem have sudden death. we need to know how many we would expect if the vaccine

doesn't cause any problems whatsoever. an average flu season just as an example around a half a million pregnant women get vaccinated. that's important because pregnant women are more likely to get more severely sick. if they are vaccinated we expect about 1,1500 women vaccinated. that's the kind of number we need to track and understand to see whether when we do see adverse event reports because we know there will be some. they are occurring at a higher rate than expected or not in the coming weeks and months 

with cool resuming, we do no one can predict with certainty how long. influenza is unpredidn't b8 meaning we have to monitor closely and be ready and willing to adapt to different approaches. one of the challenge sincere preparing if you are health care system for the likely increase in the number of people who will seek care. we know there are lots of things that can reduce the spread of flu, and that needs to occur, but for most people with the -- unless you have an under lying condition such as diabetes, pregnant circus heart disease, lung disease, for people who do have an underlying condition, it's

quite important to be seen promptly if you get a fever. that can make a difference between being severely ill and recovering well treatment in the first 4 hours we also know as of now not only has the virus -- the drugs we have available are still very effective against the virus at this time. the big picture is that there are two things we can do to reduce the impact of flu. one is reduce the number of people who get infected and the second is reduce the proportion of those who get infected who get seriously ill. to do that vaccination is our strongest tool. with the vaccine not yet here what we can do now is reduce --

stay home if you're sick, cover your mouth when you cough or sneeze and wash your hands frequently that means workplaces should increase telework and encourage people to stay home if they are sick and customers should not penalize workers for staying home if they are sick or require a note from the doctor to return to work because the doctors will be busy taking care of people who are sicking with for those who become severely fril treatment, prompt treatment is very important flu season is just beginning it's unusual to see flu continue through the summer and see this many cases this early in the

year but only time will tell what this flu season brings. what we're doing is everything in our power to be as prepared as we can for the things that may occur in the coming weeks and months. i'll now be happy to take questions. >> start with questions from the room? yes? thanks. from the "wall street journal," i was interested in the bacterial infections, because most of the rortse have been so you know is this bacterial pneumonia or what kind of co-infections are these and i wanted to ask you separately if i could about how significant you hide the think these findings are in china and that one dose of vaccine may be sufficient? so taking the last we,'

>> and as soon as we see it lit help us inform the policies but we need to look at the u.s. vaccine and how that does in the trials that are underway. bacterial pneumonia is a known complication of flu. this is one of the things that is often problem atic. the findings that we're releasing really aren't unexpected. this is what we see new orleans and for doctors to know if someone has haded the flu and they come back with a high fever later, it's fortunate think if they could be a to for all people for whom it's indicated including children

and the elderly. >> from the phone? >> marion cnn medical news, please go ahead. >> thank you for taking the call. looking at these pediatric -- saying something, people are very shocked by it. i know you talked about the bacterial but what's the message you want the get out to the parents who are saying my kid are sick, i need to go to the >> it's fortunate put the report in context. in new york city, for example, where 2007 big picture on how many people got infected, hundreds of thousands of people got infected and the overwhelming majority had no -- if children have underlying

conditions and 2/3 of the children in this report had underlying conditions such as muscular dystrophy and screebral palsy, it's very important this that they are treated promptly. if they had a fever or having difficulty keeping fluids down then it's very important and we need assistants from the media ads well as the public saying on the one hand the people of overwhelming majority people with influenza are going to be fine and won't get for that's complicated message but getting it right is not only going to be important for helping people

stay healthy. it's going to be very important for making sure our hospitals and emergency departments are available to the community and the people who really need the treatment. >> questions from the phone? >> thank you. denise greeny, "new york times" go ahead. >> could you please explain again what you said about the nbc of underscore >> i could not follow that. >> the point is certain conditions occur whether or not vaccination harnings and we need anticipate those conditions will occur after vaccination even if they are not caused by vaccination. 197 for example, there was an increased rate of a syndrome which occurs depending on the age of the population somewhere around 1/1,000 people as a rowe

peen even there's no vaccination, this and you need to in an average flu season around a half novel in that group there will be miscarriages. those miscarriages, even if you gave placebo vaccines, nothing that would cause a miscarriage, you would expect more than 1,000 in the one week ho for those half a million women, so if we see that to with the vaccine what we need to see is if the rates occurred higher than if the vaccines weren't

given. the bottom sline we will look very, very carefully to see whether there's a problem. we don't anticipate there will be and it's producet just as we put new strains in each year and flu vaccination has a long term with lit arely hundreds of millions of doses having been given. >> operator next zpwhe >> thank you our next question comes from the canadian press. >> hi. i was hoping i could get you to talk about something that you touched on earlier, the balance of some people will think they are fine and then start to get worse and need to go see doctor and they may be outside the 48 optimal treatment window for any viral drugs, is cdc

recommending that doctors think about treating with anti-virals, start treating with anti-virals and looks like somebody is dealing with severist? >> well, -- >> hi, my name is brooks i'm a producer with fox news. i wanted to ask a little more about the vaccination that chinese and switserland announced they had a one-dose vaccination. is that something we're going to see here in the united states? a one-dose as opposed to two snow -- it the has another material added to it to boost the immune response.

we don't anticipate that we will be using the vaccine in most of the scenarios that we anticipate now although that could change, and we would expect that the likelihood of needing two doses that's knott >> for seasonal flu, for kids under the age of nine we currently use two different vaccine doses soss it's very likely that for kids two dose rs going to be required but only time to -- and stride best advice the people to have the best suggestions to take care of themselves and their families. >> question over here? >> cary sandler, cbs atlanta news, a lot of parents are concerned about this.

if they feel or learn that h1n1 starts popping up in their school or day care center, if they don't feel that the school or day care center taking the necessary >> we happy to schools will continue there's a lot that happens at schools that are very important and we've had a handful of schools close, most of them just for a day or two. if your skid sick, please keep them home. they eel get better quicker and they'll not infect people around them. schools should ensure that kid who are sick are separated and sent home with parent or caretaker and that kids cover their cough, cover their knees though the people who become

infected will come way down and when the vaccines become available schools to -- schools will get them to the students. >> hi, i want to ask 36 children who died, how duds that compare to a typical influenza season? i know there's no such thing but what's given in a report is more percentages. with with to the >> child deaths from influenza are really tragic and one of the things that has promptedtous recommend broad-based influenza vaccination for children even before h1n1 came around. each year there are on the neighborhood of 50-100 deaths from influenza among children in this country.

in this year only time will the flu season this past year was very unusual because you had first a normal flu season which was a relatively mild season then you had h1n1 influenza, so these e deaths are outside of the normal time period and only time will tell what will happen in the faw and winter. the particularly kids with underlying conditions need to be treated promptly if they develop fever and first online or at the front of the line for vaccination when it becomes available. >> thank you. operator another question from the phone? >> thank you. steve, "usa today," please go ahead. >> thank you for taking these calls. there was a note in the report on influenza that struck me.

it said noir general tenay and chile that among hospitalized cases kids up to 4 years of age were most affected but both countries report only 20-30% of where as 0% represent another virus, could you explain and expand on that? >> in in parts of the country and the world where flu is spreading, it has been very important for not only sit not necessary for most people who have moderate or mild illness but for those with severe illness, it's not sufficient because there are many false

negative tests from the available test it is. so in areas where there are large numbers of people in intensive care units doing very vig rouse map in it's not always h1n1. it can be other things and only testing at that the intensive care unit level of care can determine that. >> question? >> hi. i just had quick question in the southeast what are you seeing? do you atribute that to the return of schools earlier than the rest of the nation or what do you atribute that to? >> we're seeing a lot and the most likely we have retively widespread h1n1 and that again

is most likely because we and it may also be that those in parts of the country that saw less of the h1n1 might have more now. this is one of the many things we have to monitor carefully and judge our approach baset on -- >> thank you. robert by del nbc news go ahead. >> i just want to follow up on the medicine report on the n 95 recess operators. as you well know there's not a lot of them in health care facilities and a week or two supply in many hospitals and some in the strategic reserve but given that there's a potential shortage of these if there were to be a very large outbreak of disease, would you how would you like health care workers to respond and how do

you think they should? matchup to their charge was specifically not to consider either economic or logistical concern such as supply, and was as we look at guidance for health care facilities we'll be looking at this carefully in the coming days and weeks. i think we have time for one tore doctor, two questions, first of all, in the mead pediatric death report, do y'all know where the kids picked up those infections? were those hospital-acquired infections? and given the under five yet ins the children and seasonal flu. zth for the first question, most of those infections were picked up in the community

rather than in the hospital. the kids came in with the infection. in terms of the relative severity of seasonal h1n1 -- h 1 versus n 1, we don't know that it's more or less severe. clearly the number of deaths we're now at more than 500 death ins the entire country in all age groupsal emphasizes that influenza can be a very important disease so we have to take every step at our disposal. wash your if you're severely ill, trouble breathing or have an underlying condition get treated promptly when you have fever and when the vaccination becomes available make schur we have pass many people as possible nope health care hub

is a key resomplets go on line and follow the latest tweets and watch the latest events including town hall meetings and share your video including video from any town halls you've been to and there's more at c-span.org/health care. >> and now the growing hispanic ins politics. this was orgded by the steam boat substitute. it's a spanish language media company. this is about 55 minutes. >> this is going to be our panel on changing democrats, hispanic voting trends in the future as well as looking back and analyzing what happened in 2008. we are absolutely thrilled to have with us from denver this afternoon, mario carrere and

marcelo diate who are with the parent company of univision. they are true experts on the topic we're about to hear about. mario carrere is the vice president and general nop it reaches approximately 5% of all hispanics in the united states. mario believes that the main purpose of a radio and tv station is to enhance the lives and economic well being of its audience for education, information and entertainment. while providing maximum return on investment to advertisers and shareholders. great mission statement. doing well by doing good is what mario believes and he has served on the boards of the boy scouts of america the chamber

of congress the hispanic denver chamber of congress and other organizations, mario earned his bachelor's and associates degree at harvard university and marcelo, down here at the other end, marcelo is vice president of governmental affairs for entrevision. he was with latinos education fund for nearly 10 years as senior director of programs. with that organization he created the mobile voter mission which reached millions of -- i'll turn it over to tony. >> thank you. [applause] >> i've been going through briefly the data these gentlemen have put together. and this is a tremendous

opportunity for all of us. we all video strong feelings about voting ethnic groups, immigration, all these issues, and i think it would be useful to put all that to the side and listen to their objective analysis of how hispanics or latinos actually think and behave and respond to, you know, come back to applying to whatever your concerns respect but from -- if we wanted to get into this topic we could pay lot of money to have this kind of data. and so i'm going to turn it over to the gentlemen for 15 or so minutes and they are going to just sort of give you a review of their data and turn it right over to you and we'll talk back and fort. but this is a real opportunity to get an insight into the way

people actually respond. it's not et though and this is an understanding of how people behave. very useful. >> now listen. >> thank you, very much. if you doned mind i'm going to stand up to present to you we have a few slides to go over in the video for a couple minutes and we think it will be helpful leaving you with useful information but before that i have to tell you off very dedicated staff working and we owe a special thanks to jennifer and kirsten and i'm sure i'm missing a lot of people but you should be pleaseed with everything they are doing. tony, thank you, very much for the introduction and jennifer, there are four points we want to leave with you today, in essence they are very, very important points, because we believe, one, we want to reenforce that hispanics are a

critical mass, a constituency of taxpayers, voters for future political success. there's they are also very young and eager to engage civically, and wyatt the majority can be reached in spanish the online radio and television and the fourth point they think is very critical, we all know this, it's a group that's and by both the republican and democratic parties. i think it's established in that sense. this is something we want to start with. i think it's important you have it. audio, please. this is a video present and produce indeed 2007, late 2007 and early 2008, which captures the flavor of what was taking place at that time.

what? audio. thank you, paul. generational time gap. this time lit not come out of your -- this will not come out of your presentation time. [laughter] ahh, there we go. mute might help. thank you. bbc steam book. here we go.

coming up? you can go straight to it if you like out of the presentation. one more try. if not we'll just move on to the next one. there we go. >> generation has seen the political landscape of our country reshaped. we are witness to a growing voice that has turned into a new political force. >> you think that you can win without the hispanic vote? >> absolutely not. not only is it the vote of today but it's the vote of tomorrow. >> well, i'm going to work very hard to get as much of the hispanic vote as possible. >> the hispanic vote is tailor-made to the republican cause. >> in the fall of 2007 all major democratic and republican

candidates came to univision to debate for the first time ever on a spanish network. >> latinos can make a difference. >> i look forward to earning your support. >> and history was made. >> abc news headquarters in new york. >> tonight a political first a presidential debate broadcast entirely in spanish. >> more than 4.5 million people tuned in for the first of its type which shows how much america seems to be changing. >> by mid february with the latino vote already playing a sizeible vote all eyes were on austin, texas. >> right now more than 30 million people in this country who speak spanish. there's no question we are the fastest-growing segment of the electorate. >> it also embodyies the best of american as operations. >> and i will be asking

directly for their vote. i'm not going to concede is a kingal one. >> it speaks to the growing clout of latinos. >> and that translates into some very serious political power. >> a power that on november 4 will help elect the next president of the united states. >> so indeed this was historically unprecedented. you had both the republican and democratic parties coming to spanish-language television and proving hispanics have a strong political appetite. there were 4.6 million viewers that watched this on univision versus the average relationship on abc, cnn and msnbc and fox news had of 3 many viewers so you have a highly-engaged population. coincidentally i wish they were the parent company of univision but we are an affiliate and right in the middle of the battleground in colorado, new

mexico, florida in the fastest-growing hispanic markets so it's a major point in terms of penetration in the marketplace they have at least 15% or more that happen to be people that happen to be of hispanic or gin. the projections into the future are significant. this population will triple by the year 20 50. one of the major points i think we wanted to make was that the population is under 2/3 of the population is under 35. it's a very young population. and you're going to be continuing to see that this is a group that is going to be a major part in the economy. in the workforce. and it's going to be critical in terms of sustaining key government programs such as believe it or not social security. so there's a gap in terms of

the youth about 9-13 years between latino and non-latino. about 50,000 each month are turning 18 and therefore eligible to vote. much against the white-spread myth, the hispanics see education as a gateway to economic advancement and the fulfillment of the american dream. that's a very important point. so how do you engage hispanics? this is something we probably want to spend more time with on q & a but it's important that you do it in the language you prefer and that the media they prefer. this is spanish. it's here to stay and will continue to grow in time. one of the common assumptions is that you can only reach hispanics in english.

ultimately the majority, 76%-78% are spanish do informant so you need look at ways of speak that language and making them feel comfortable with the messages that you want to reach out to them, and it doesn't mat ter age or education. it doesn't mat ter income. and this is actually the third party research company defined by kneel son. so there's a study that's proven time and time again in terms of the value of spanish-language commercials and how they are effective of there's 1% more effective spanish language commercials and increasing awareness, and -- delivering an effective message and comprehensive message and ultimately at persuading 4 1/2 times more persuasive. in the case of biling walls

it's 37.57 more effective. specifically in the case of hispanic voters they agree with the statement that says it is important, 61% agree it's important that i see elective candidates on television. no surprise 75% actually agree with the statement and in the case of the ads and programs, 52% which is a significant number when you sense they are agreeing and like these commercials agree that they are encouraged by these messages to get involved politically and register stereotype and get out and vote. let me speak to the rest of the presentation, spanish still resonates even for hispanics that have been in this country for years so you see the different media that's represented.

print, media, online and a significant amount of time spent there. i'm sure you've seen headlines, univision is now in the top 5 networks, many times depending on the democratic it's number one in 1839 and this happens because local stations is up as the one i represent in denver are fairly strong. kneel son, the local people meter measures all the television stations and you have our station being radio is the same it's number one against all the other radio stations. you find that to be the case across major markets in the country. locks miami, denver included now, san francisco, number one or number two both in radio and television.

markets, the events are critical in toumptling market and introduceing the message. that's huge. a lot 06 newscasts all over the country and they are also performing at number one or two in total delivery. same kind of political shows we have on sunday mornings. ajenda washington and our show much like "meet the >> i'm going to just begin by giving you a snap shot on how demographics changes are resonating in the electoral sphere. you can symphony 1998 whites making 85% of the electorate, african-americans about 107 and hispanics 3 at any time %. you fast forward that to 2008, whites making 76.3% of the electorate, hispanics, 12.1%.

african-americans and hispanics and then you see the rest so the electorate is beginning to shift and if you overlay that with what mario said earlier what you see in the future is that the electorate is going to be and if you can see that, the bottom is the white vote how it was split between mccain and obama. the green is african-american the t red one is hispanics. so you can see how this changing demographics, some have argue that to win elections in the future, republicans are going to have to compete and in the ethnic communities because of otherwise, especially in certain states, they are going to be out of reach. this is the growth of the hispanic electorate, the bottom one is the actual vote, so in 2008 to the orange is the

number of registered you have about 12 million and citizen voting age is about 18.5 million. for hispanics, you know the register strailings and potential registration is getting bigger. this is just to give you a sense in terms of what's going on in terms of some of these things. mexico 38% of the electorate is hispanic. you have a state like texas. 25% of all registered voters in texas are hispanics. it's going to be interesting the role of hispanics might play in the governor's race coming up next year because hispanic played a crucial role in the republican primary in 2008 between mccain and governor romney at that time,

but look at the swing states, the some felt the hispanic vote was the margin of victory in indiana for obama. this gives you a trend in terms of the presidential vote. so what's interesting to note is that look what happened from to 2008. from 2000 to 2008. you see president obama at that time president bush at the time first got 37% of the hispanic vote then up to 45% then the last time it dropped to 31%. so this is a community that can swing. about two weeks ago i was giveing a similar presentation for democratics and they said will hispanics be there again

and i said you're making an assumption that they are going to vote for you. you have to reach out to them. this is what happened in 2006 in terms of some of the u.s. senate races. this is so you can see that this is a community that once appealed and talked to and reached, republican candidates resonate amongst the hispanic voters. i think somebody talked in the priest panel about what happened in 2004. what's interesting is in 2004 and the senate race here in colorado, how narrow it was that and then -- it shift indeed 2008. colorado the s one of the few states where the hispanic vote decreased for democrats. as opposed to what was going on nationwide.

we had a brief conversation about i want tony asked me why? i don't know why, but it happened. this is an interesting tick at the electorate. and what we did here is the red margin is the margin of victory. the yellow margin is the percent of latino voters so you see in several states the latino registration is greater than the margin of victory, so to ignore this growing electorate, you do it at your per i will because this elek perle -- at your payroll -- because this is going to -- at your peril, because it will have an effect. and this is to point out that this is a survey that was done after the election to see what were the issues fortunate hispanics.

and you can see the scommi number one followed by education. health care, national security, the environment, immigration and energy policy. this is the way hispanic voters rank the issues of importance to them. >> was it after september? >> january. 2009. this year. >> so after -- >> absolutely. and before the economic collapse it was education. that was a critical point and something we need to really keep an eye on. because the hispanics are aspirational in nature and really looking forward that opportunity. >> i'm going back to that last slide, because it is so revealing. i mean, the economy. i didn't know the answer but i

assumed because economy tanked everybody's more focused on the economy immigration was the sixth of six issues. so a lot of republicans and conservatives have been concerned that the way the immigration issue has played out has not been helpful for that side. but you can see in all the other issues, national security. now health care and education you think might be predictable. the economy. national security. there are zones of substance not related to being hispanic or anglo but just related to the same issues we are all dealing but it tells me at least as someone whose done politics far long time that, we all have to live across the specktrum up to our convictions

and policies and not try to pretend to believe in things we don't believe in or whatever, but that this is a vote that is open to the general debate and the effectiveness or failure -- where bithe way there was high hispanic participation particularly in the marine corps, so the economy is not going to be this big but always a substantial issue. we may have a strong case where in the previous panel we said we have to explain to the public why our principals work to their benefit. applies double down in obviously amongst hispanic voters so there's richness of opportunity for both parties and people of all different sets of views to compete on this.

so this is not a lay-down hand for anybody in the electorate. i'll just throw one fact out and then go to questions, the history of the word hispanic was invented by richard nixon back when he was president. he saw the black vote and thought gee we should have something like that so he thought the hispanic -- there was no hispanic vote no category called hispanic people from guatemala and mexico and he decided the census bureau should start to use hispanic for everybody who comes from a country where spanish is the first language so he thought they would be a block to vote republican rather than democrat so that was 1970-1971, now over the 35 years the term has been embraced by the community.

most people don't know the origins of the term and probably has been i think some suggest that there has been some higher consciousness of being hispanic than being mexican or g guatemalan or argentinian or any of the other groups in a way nixon couldn't have expected. there was some consequences to his decision, so just to nee -- so there were voting patterns among some we called hispanics and some would be discerned because of the countries where they came from like those that are italian and others called your eens. although this shows there's a consciousness. i thought one of the most interesting statistics here was the question of spanish language advertising.

and because way know, i'm not an expert, but what i know about the immigration history of america those that immigrants that came moatly from europe was that they quickly.

with any of the objective criteria. i really do have a problem, and i think a lot of people to come in saying that this country should be a bilingual country. i would like to know your position on that. >> i can take that. it is not some much that it should be a bilingual country. that is a longstanding debate. we are right next to a population in a country that his

spanish-speaking. what tony was saying in terms of the differences of the immigrants that came across and across this hemisphere, primarily mexico and central and south america, there are significant differences. i think we need to put them in perspective and put them in their own context. there are a lot of people who go back five, six generations. they speak spanish, still. that has been present here for a long time. hispanics embraced. it is important to recognize that. you have the best-selling -- it be the martyr and gamble but, the best selling package on

univision from lexicon. they do quite well. they sell video packages and the bees that are $1,500. people embrace that. the more english language to offer, you will see people go to those classes because they know, dominating an understanding and being fluent in english will help them. they are that much more engaged with the community. we know that. having said that, that does not say [speaking spanish] i can speak spanish, but i do not need to negate the spanish i carry. that is the difference. >> a quick personal -- there was

a study where there is not enough english class is available to help immigrants assimilate. i think you have to separate the political discussion from the cultural one. my mother was born in chile. when she talked to me in english, it was usually to call me to do something i had to do. when she told me she loves me, she told me in spanish. i always said, tell me what to do in spanish. >> he raises an interesting point. we will go there next. there has always been a great debate and a political science -- in political science. no topic in no area is it more significant than here. there's no direct answer. some believe the cultural instinct drives political decisions. we come face to face with that phenomenon in the question you

asked. a lot of us would like to have rigid believe it should be an english-speaking country because the history of countries that have more than one language are often distrustful. it is a unifying factor. putting that aside, we have an objective fact. we have a lot of people who are voting who, if you want to communicate with them, there are ways to communicate in ways not to communicate. in communicating, you can make the case. you can be persuasive. if you look at immigrants in the 20th century, there was a strong separation between those who wanted to be acclimated and become fully american and others who did not. i think it will be an ongoing debate. we have to be aware of the tools. one of the tools of speaking in the language. >> linda for the debate. thank you for that -- thank you for the debate. thank you for the chance.

many of us, i suspect, have assimilated. a famous ukrainian said, embrace your culture but for get not your own. i think that is important and i think that is what you are embodied in here. it is important when we take the next up -- tony took some of my thunder -- that is, what happens historically to countries who have started to have language infusions, different languages becoming a daily part of their conversation. it does create some significant challenges. i also think it creates some real opportunities for us. we need to look at this little problem as an opportunity for conservatives. we should be attempting to do what mr. nelson did in the black community and in the hispanic community, getting to those classes so they can learn.

we know that immigrants want to do one thing. that is to prosper. the only way they can prosper is with your ability to be your own boss. when you do that, obviously, you reach the american dream. i would like to think that that american dream would be speaking officially in one language, but not for getting our cultures from where we came. [applause] >> we will go down here. my old boss several years ago stood up in public and said, republican candidates should learn how to speak spanish because you can see where the democratic trends are going. he started taking spanish class. he started studying because he wanted to follow his own guidance. later on, as issues in politics involved, he got hit pretty hard by a lot of conservatives who

said, you are giving in to a bilingual nation. it is a powerful, dividing issue among conservatives, amongst non-recently emigrated americans. people feel passion about it. the politics is there now. there is a river flowing. as a political player, i want to be stepping into that river. i do not want to just watch it go by. >> i am going to talk. i have no prejudice against latinos. i guarantee you, they have made a lot of money for me. i have served as a consultant. we took sales from 29 million

with my strategy. i just came back from working in guatemala with five companies. i lived in nicaragua before the communists and after the communists. however, i am very frightened of latinos. i will tell you why. in the voting block, i am because today, we have five nations in latin america that are led by communists. we only had 110 years ago. that was cuba. now we have five. the only one that has extracted itself from that is honduras, and our dear president is throwing all kinds of roadblocks to bring back the communist president that the

people rejected and threw out. now, i feel that there's a difference in a latin voter and in one from this culture. they come out of the system in which the padrone is there. they have been taught marxism for years and years. we are seeing -- they are voting that way. i think there will continue. >> i understand. you want to a question? you made a powerful point. >> i would like to know if you agree or not agree with that. >> we were having the discussion that the term "latino" was something that -- folks in latin america do not see themselves as latinos. they see themselves as mexicans, guatemalans. there is a cultural divide. there is a debate as to what

extent folks should have communications or dialogue with the countries of origin. it is a discussion. i think usually the winning side is we are americans here, we have to contribute and be part of it. i will say that the great majority of these voters are young. that is driving the electorate. they are fertile ground for folks communicating. >> we have a few minutes before we have to finish the panel. what you have said is a big part of americans in immigration history, the progressive movement, was in substantial part a rickrack -- reaction to the immigrants who had come over and the concern of the existing population, which was a

real one for america of 100 years ago, that things would shift. we got a lot of offices removed from voting. they became appointed offices. the reason why in the teens and 1920's we saw many american offices that had been voted on by the electorate then appointed was an attempt to respond to that concern, that was a real concern then and now. we worked our way through that. it is a legitimate voice. you cannot brush this under the carpet. these powerful, cultural issues have always been part of the challenge of being american. we are a nation of immigrants. it has been a difficult decision. we have strengthened ourselves over time because -- over

time. in the process, there is a mistake made by mainstream media to not talk about it. these are legitimate concerns that americans have. it is part of that debate. i think in this discussion, i find it fascinating as a technician, if you will, at how you reach these particular voters. the broader issue is a legitimate one. i'm glad you raised it. we have time for one or two more questions. >> let me respond to the premise. a professor of mine used to say that latinos are not from the other side of the moon. they are not. there is not this mistake that -- they happen to be just like you and me in many respects. the youth segment is fertile ground for people to just -- that come from a frame of mind

of adapting, working, and using every tool that the united states and its principals have actually made available. our government, cabalism, that is what attracted a lot of immigrants here. building businesses, that is attracting immigrants here. there is a significant amount of business creation taking place right now not from his tent -- from hispanic males but from hispanic females. it is a significant piece of that pie that is being treated quickly. >> closing comments. >> the issue is -- it does not address the issue. the issue is [speaking spanish]

the mentality is different. when you take a country like chile, which would still have communism if it was not for the cia, i am telling you, it is different. 67% of them voting for, this time tells me we have big problems. even though i know how to sell beans in this country, i do not know -- i do not think i am smart enough to figure out how to change that opinion of these people trained in communism to change them to our way of thinking. they have not changed yet. >> thank you. >> thank you. i would like to present an aside, sir. one thing that is absolutely true -- i think everyone would like for the united states to be

a single language country. to get to some of the issues you are talking about, many statistics were mentioned that show that the latin population in this country resonates on their language. if conservatives want to get their view across to the latino community, we cannot ignore that. that is what it is today. [applause] [speaking spanish] >> i will translate for you. >> thank you. to get at one of the issues you are going on, if you look at the demographics of the hispanic population, age-wise, i will

quote winston churchill. if you are not a liberal or near 18, you do not have a heart. if you are not a conservative by the time you're 30, you do not have a brain. look at how fast the russian people changed their attitude when they grew up under marxism. i think that what you are saying about -- you have obvious statistics that selling to hispanics in spanish works. i think that as a matter of respect. if this person is going to take the time to speak in the language that i am praised in, i will buy his product. it is that simple. it is the same thing with a politician. he has to sell himself. >> the lady back there. over there. >> my question is, was any of

the studies religious in any way? was there is predominantly catholic area? the republicans have always focused more so on the christianity, the religious background, the hard work ethic, working hard, taking care of people who are working hard. i know the hispanic people are very hard working and very family-oriented people. most importantly, they fear god greatly. from that end, it seems like they would be a better fit with the conservative party, if in fact it was projected accordingly by conservatives. >> last year, there is a proposition in california on the marriage amendment proposition 8 -- on the marriage amendment, proposition 8.

a very culturally-sensitive message was given in spanish. it was a bilingual message. they could not figure out how to speak to hispanics. hispanics voted 54% with the proposition. this is the same year that a majority of them in california voted for obama. targeted messages do resonate. i wanted to mention, i was saying that a lot of pioneers in terms of marketing to hispanic voters was president reagan. >> let me briefly respond. this is another example of the question about culture trumping politics or vice versa. it was thought that jewish

people would vote in a different way than they actually do. there are cultural and historic perceptions -. challenge -- the challenge for any party or group is, are there other blocks, cultural or kinds of blocks to getting people to vote if they agree with you? they are not voting together because of other stuff. the other stuff is getting in the way of getting an actual constituency. that is part of the challenge that any party has. it is part of a challenge that conservatives have to figure out -- not only to reach out on the issues that we share, but to figure out how to communicate through the things that are blocked.

>> there is a great marketplace of ideas here in products and what have you. i will go to my personal story. i came to the united states went -- with my family when i was 9 years old. things like pizza, peanut butter, the basic things that you're comfortable with, were new to me. it was a different list of products on the shelf, just in terms of what to eat. can you imagine, when you think of the ideas and the institutions that are present here, there is also a different concept and opportunity to learn what is available here and to work with it. it is incumbent upon all the people to educate the recently arrived immigrants and the up- and-coming young population to learn those ideas and work with them. >> i will try to be very brief. i think mario spoke to it. maybe it was tony.

the issues, the ranking of the issues you have do not surprise me at all. tony, you said they look like the general population and i very much agree. education being as high as it is does not surprise me at all, especially with the latino population. education is tied to opportunity. republicans and conservatives have historically been the champions of choice in education. the democrats typically have been status quo public education supporters. i have always on the conflict in that. i think actions have consequences. mario, either one of you, tell me if come in the latino community, to me, the democrats showed their true colors when they pulled the plug on the d.c. opportunity voucher program this last year. the labor unions were much more important to them than opportunity for some of the most

disadvantaged inner-city kids come in this case in washington, d.c. you can assume they would have the same position anywhere else. did the community -- did that hispanic community pit attention to those actions and will those actions have consequences? >> absolutely. the public education system is failing a lot of young latino kids. there have been a lot of effort, over 30 years, 40 years, to help that. i am a product of public education. i was very fortunate. my brother was coming in. this magnifies the problem. i did not want him to go through the public school education. he was nine years behind me. i had an opportunity to direct and to a private school. i knew he would get a lot more out of that kind of experience.

i think right now, there is a river going through. you do not have the luxury -- i have a 17-year-old and a 14- year-old. you need to go to the best schools. if they are charter or public, you need to get your kids educated. people want results from the opportunity to go to school. they will go to the best possible schools they can find at that time because their kids do not have that much of a waiting period for things to get better. >> i agree with the gentleman. i would not want french voters in america because they have a view -- because there is a presumption of a higher level of social welfare that the government should provide then we americans traditionally have. i do not doubt that that might be an element of the current thinking of some part of the

latino vote. it is not yet typical of american voting. the canadians have the same view. they have a higher level. that is a factor that is a political reality. when people come from another country, many other countries have a higher view of what social welfare ought to be provided then we have traditionally had. therefore, i believe foundations like us have an even stronger obligation to teach the value of the kind of policy that has made america the greatest nation in the world. we became the greatest nation by the kind of freedom, by the self-reliance that we have in our population. i have swedish friends who are afraid to come to america because they do not like the idea that they stand -- they have to stand on the rhone. they're wonderful people, but they're so used to the security, they do not want to break out.

we have cherished independence in this country. it is worth embracing. we have time for one more. >> very quickly, you have got to think of -- there is no comparable msnbc for cable news network in spanish. to your question about the d.c. vote, it was on our news, but it got one or two minutes. there is not that discussion for the greater part of the community. let me give you an example. there is a debate about health care. for spanish news, if you worry spanish speaker, you would not know about it.

i just read in political two -- politico that no one is speaking in spanish. it is hard to get spanish- speaking conservatives to come on the show. >> i have to wrap it up. this is a wonderful conversation that will continue in the corridors and bars in the months ahead. we have a special guest i would like to introduce. thank you so much for coming. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] >> the political influence of spanish in the west was discussed by project new west.

the new mexico state auditor was among those speaking. this is about 50 minutes. >> hello, everyone. i am an adviser to project new west. we are all very excited to have you here this afternoon. if you have friends in the back, we would love for you to bring them in. we have some extraordinary panelists who will be joining us in a little bit. we are eager to share insights, ideas, and potential strategies. one of the interesting things is that over the last two years, project new west conducted over 25 book is groups in english and spanish to understand nuances' among hispanic voters. we did over 17 of them in the political season last year. of course, we are all very aware

that quantity is not necessarily the prime thing we're looking at. we're looking at quality. what made project new west and all the focus groups exceptionally terrific and agreed basis for research was that we had a traveling band of nomads. we went from city to city. we were altogether as a group come up to 20 people, because we have lots of subscribers, and every night, we would make sure that we debriefed and talked about the pope is groups. if we needed to, we would make minor changes. we would come up with ideas of how to improve it. that is the camaraderie. i have done a lot of focus groups. i have to tell you that over 15 years of politics that i've been involved in, we had a mutual

respect and wanted to get down to the deep and dirty of how to move hispanic voters. i thinank jill for bringing me on as an adviser. we know that we did our share in helping get out 57% of the hispanic vote last year and we are thrilled about that. one of the things that we tend to do is least -- we see race and ethnicity through the prism of our own experiences. i wanted to have a better understanding of the perspective i have. a lot of people want to know about my last name. they say, can i meet mr. chambers? i say, he does not exist. he is my dad. my great-grandfather came from england to northern mexico in the 1880's to work in the minds.

-- mines. he married a mexican woman and had a big family, five kids. my parents are mexican immigrants. they came in november of 1963. the first image my mother had of the u.s. was the assassination of president john f. kennedy. she did not speak any english at that time. this was her searing image of this new country. what happened was, i have a connection with one of our panelists, and that was as a historian. i found my family in the census. there were in arizona. you have a chambers family with mexican first names for all of the kids, including my grandfather felix. the idea here is a by cultural -- bicultural upbringing happens

more than we know. there are a lot of people in the southwest to have a similar experience. mexicans, spaniards, and latinos have been arriving in the u.s. for centuries. we are here to find out what it is about this community that makes it so new. why do we feel we need to learn about it? we are experiencing a major demographic shift. many of those results will be seen through our own lifetime. to many of us, that is a simple fact. it is well known and obvious. we will get a little deeper to find out what the demographic change really means, not just for each and everyone of us, but for long-term strategic planning. what is the viability of this electorate? this panel will give us an overview of the electorate. we will discuss where they are now and where they are headed towards in the future.

more importantly, what is it that we can do to create partnership with the electorate? i would like to share a promise with which we are starting here at project new west. our understanding is that we are not in a post-racial america. we understand it so clearly that we did not contemplate naming a panel called "post-racial america." we are extraordinarily excited about the work from 2008 and the opportunities that are ahead of us. we are realists and pragmatists. we really want to keep winning. here is a bit of reality. out of every 100 hispanic high- school kids, only 50% graduate from high school. the other 50%, only 12% of them graduate from college. of those, only 3% receive a postgraduate degree.

those of you who are good at math, those numbers turn out to be out of every 100 hispanic high-school kids, less then one gets a post graduate degree. the elephant in the room, through the prism of my experience, having been a recipient of affirmative action, what are we doing to change the erosion of an educated labor force that will grow dramatically in the next 25 years? these are our future workers upon which the u.s. will depend. these are the policemen and women come and nurses, teachers, administrators, business owners, and the list goes on. we will learn from mark lopez. the more educated a person is, the more civic-minded they become and the more often they vote. if we have lots of high school dropouts in a community, what

does that mean politically? will last minute programs get us to where we need to be? as we move forward, are we communicating to a distinct electorate in ways that are sustainable? to start off the conversation, i would like to share a graphic from an article from "usa today." it should come up behind me. it is actually a map that shows the growth, the increase of growth in every county. what we have here, first of all, is the majority and minority. we see the southwest. we see counties in florida. what is interesting is the growth in the south. we are talking mississippi, alabama, and the carolinas, not to mention the dakotas. we go down to asian population growth. you see the graphic change.

there was one or more percentage point between 2000 and 2008. if we look at the black population growth, we see the growth in counties was really sustained in the south and in parts of the mid-atlantic. if we go to hispanic growth, that is over the last eight years. essentially, percentages of growth in every county, and it really, as you can see from iowa and kansas, the south, the west, basically more than half of florida. there is a lot of opportunity. i would love to introduce to you our first panelist, dr. mark lopez. he is the associate director of a hispanic center, where he joined in january of 2008. he serves as a research professor of the university of maryland school of public policy.

he received his ph.d. from princeton university in 1996 and specializes in labor economics, civic engagement, voting behavior, and the economics of education. he has studied young people's electoral participation, the civic engagement of immigrants, young people's views of the first amendment, and the link between college attendance and civic engagement. please help me give him a warm welcome to the podium. [applause] >> hello. thank you very much. it is great to be here. thank you for taking the time to come and listen to me. i hope you find this presentation informative and also a useful. before we start, i want to give you some sense of the -- of my employer. it is based in washington, d.c. i will try this one more time.

it is based in washington, d.c. it is a nonpartisan organization. we call ourselves a fact tank. we just provide information. we provide facts. a lot of our work revolves around the demographics of the hispanic community. we do public opinion polling. you will notice in all of our reports, there's never any policy recommendations or suggestions at the end of the report. that is an important thing to remember. it is really just a fact tank and not a think tank. i know it is a weird name. we cover many different things related to the hispanic community. education, demography, immigration. we estimate there are about 11.9 million documented immigrants in the united states. it is an estimate. what i want to talk to you

about today is first about the demography of the hispanic community in the united states, and then a little bit about what we have seen in terms of their electoral participation and their points of view on a few things such as issues and which political party has more concern for hispanics that we have been trending. first, demography. the hispanic population represents 15% of the u.s. population. 15% of all people who reside in the united states are hispanic. when you take a look of the hispanic population, one of the things you will notice is it is majority needed-born and 40% foreign-born. you will notice that the hispanic adult population over 18 is the majority -- is majority foreign-born. when we look at the trends of what we have observed, there are 46 million hispanics in the u.s. that number has tripled since

1980. by 2015, the number of hispanics in the u.s. will triple again. what is interesting about patterns of growth is that a lot of the growth has been driven by immigration in the past. at the last couple of decades, immigration has been a driver for population growth. moving forward, it is hispanic births in the u.s. that will drive the population growth. hispanics, while we seem more -- while we see more hispanics register to vote, hispanics generally represent a smaller share of the eligible voter population than they do the general population. the reason is because many are immigrants and many are under 18. also, new geographic centers are emerging. the hispanic population is becoming more dispersed across the u.s. here is a graphic that shows you

growth in the hispanic population through this decade. here is what the project will happen moving forward, to give you a sense of what we see in terms of growth. here is how we project the population shares will change. by 2050, the u.s. will be a majority-minority society. in terms of the hispanic population, it is a much younger population than the white population of the united states. perhaps what is most striking is when you look at hispanics and break it down by nativity, look at the age distribution for native-born hispanics. a larger share our under the age of 18. that has implications for the future. we are talking about political participation. every year, we will see more and more young latinos turn 18. that has been in large part of the driver in the growth of the

eligible voter population. to give you a sense of where growth has been coming, this shows you that a lot of the growth has been mostly driven by immigration. in this decade, hispanic births became more important than immigration. we think that right now, the share of the hispanic population that is foreign-born is at its peak. we saw a great set of maps from "usa today." here are others. this map shows you the share in each county -- shows you the counties where the share of hispanics were 15% or more. you can see that a large number of those counties are along the u.s.-mexico border and in south florida. here is what has happened since 1980. here is the same graph but for 1990. 2000.

2007. as you can see, the hispanic population has become more dispersed. between 2000 and 2007, the hispanic population increase. it is increasing in alaska, in montana, virtually everywhere in the united states. a little bit about geography of hispanics, because we were talking about the west. half of all hispanics live in california and texas. most hispanics are there. in arizona, there are 1.9 million hispanics representing 30% of the state boasts a population. 37% are foreign-born. here is a similar figure for colorado. 20% of the state's population is hispanic.

29% are foreign-born. for new mexico, here are similar figures. look at how high the share of native-born is. nevada, utah, idaho, wyoming, and montana. you can see the share in the mountain west varies tremendously depending on what state we are talking about and the share of the populations in those states that are foreign- born also vary. what about voters. there are 18.5 million latinos who are eligible to vote. that is up by about 2 million since 2004. the hispanic population has been growing and it has translated into a lot of growth. for the most part, hispanic voters are more likely to be young, naturalized citizens,

more likely to have children, and muscle -- and less likely to be college graduates. 65% of latino eligible voters are in four states, california, texas, new york, and florida. half are in california and texas. in the mountain west, 10% of hispanic voters reside. 4% reside in arizona. together, 10% are in the mountain west. here is the map to show you where hispanic voters are. the states that have the highest share of eligible voters who are actually hispanic is shown in this slide. 30% are -- 38% are eligible

voters in new mexico. how many hispanics are registered and how many vote? in 2008, 11.6 million hispanics said there were registered and said -- and i say that because it is based on a national survey. 9.7 million said they voted. you will notice the trend is upward. over the time between 1988 and 2008, the number of hispanic voters has almost tripled. each election, more and more hispanics participate. at the pew hispanic center, we have been doing a lot of polling, asking about political issues. we have been asking this one question, what party has more concern for hispanics? is there no difference? when you take a look of the chart, what you see is for the

most part, over the last decade, hispanics have said the democratic party has more concern for hispanics than the republican party. the larger share says there's no difference. in the last year or so, we have seen a change. the democratic member has gone up to define%. they have said the democratic party has more concern for hispanics than the republican party. the number for the republican party has only been at 6%. 35% say there is no difference. about the dilution of hispanic voting power -- when we think of voting, we usually think of the share of voters who are some -- who are hispanic should match their sharon of the population. for hispanics, while they represent 50% of the u.s. population, because many of them are too young to vote, we take them out, they only represent 13%.

also, many hispanic adults are not u.s. citizens and cannot vote. only 8.9% are actually hispanic. hispanics, their political voice is somewhat diluted because of demographic factors. not until 2016 will the share of the population -- 2060 will the share of the population look closer to the share of the population. -- look closer to the share of hispanic eligible voters. according to census bureau data, the u.s. electorate in 2008, people who voted in the presidential election, is more diverse than it has been. almost 1/4 of all voters were

either white, black, hispanic, or asian. the numbers are making me nervous. that is fine. i messed up there. for the most part, whites still outnumber everybody. this makes a lot of sense in terms of the number of votes cast. you can see a lot of growth has happened between 2004 and 2008 for blacks and hispanics. we talk about voter turnout rate. here is what the trends have looked like. in this last election, african- americans caught up to their white counterparts in terms of participation. there has been growth in participation among hispanics despite the fact that the hispanic eligible population has been growing by a large number, 2 million of reelection. that kind of dampens the voter turnout rate.

as you can see, there has been growth in the hispanic voter turnout rate. it reached almost 50 percent in this most recent election. how did hispanic vote? this is based on the national exit poll. minority voters voted differently than their white counterparts, particularly for african-americans. 95% supported obama. for white voters, we saw 43%-55% split. if you take a look at latino voters across different demographics, you can see across the board support for obama was very strong, whether we talk about young people, older folks, men, women. the matter what demographic group you look at, you see strong support for obama. obama's margin of victory among hispanics was greatest in new jersey.

you can see that i have ranked them for you. last, i will stop here soon, because i know my time is running out, but i want to show you a key state. here is what we saw for the presidential vote in 2004 and 2008 in new mexico. here is what we sought in colorado. -- we saw in colorado. here is what we saw in arizona. here is what we saw in nevada. i will end with florida. florida is an interesting state in many respects because of the changing demographics. take a look at the hispanic vote in 2004. the hispanic vote in florida in 2004 went for george bush. look at what happened in 2008.

the hispanic vote in florida went for barack obama. what is interesting is that in the voter registration rolls for florida, we saw that the number of hispanic registered as democrats surpassed the number registered as republicans for the first time in a long time. florida represented some sort of a change in terms of the hispanic vote. i will be happy to talk more about all of it. i will stop here because my time is up. let me show you one last slide. hispanic priorities for the obama administration. we asked hispanics and what the top issues were that the administration should address. the economy was number one. that is followed by education and health care, national security, environment, immigration, and energy policy. i will stop there. thank you for taking the time to listen to me. i will be happy to answer any questions after the panel is over. thank you.

[applause] >> love to have our two panelists to join us -- panelists join us. we have our attorney general from arizona and the state auditor from new mexico. [applause] now, terry was born and raised in tucson. he comes from a long line of public service. his father served as arizona's governor in the 1960's. he received his law degree from arizona state university. he served on active duty in the navy and retired after 27 years in naval reserve. his legal career began as a prosecutor in the arizona

attorney general's office. he was elected mayor of phoenix not once, not wise, not three, but four times. he served as the arizona director of the u.s. department of housing and urban developed. he was elected to the board of the arizona water conservation district in 2000. attorney general, thank you for your public service and for being here today. [applause] at the age of 33, hector was elected to new mexico state auditor in november of 2006. his election marked a milestone for new mexico and the nation. he became the youngest hispanic statewide elected official in the country. at the age of 29, and with no prior political experience, he ran for a seat in the house of

representatives and one. he graduated from new mexico highlands university and earned his law degree in 2001 from the university of new mexico. please welcome him to the stage. [applause] i think we will do a little bit of q&a. i will move the podium little bit, unless i have staffers to help me, but we will swivel. we will start with some q&a. very good. ok. thank you all for joining us here today. i do have a few questions from the audience as well. we will try to get to those as soon as we get through our panel here. one of the things we learned last year was that we found two key values that were shared by

large majorities of hispanics in the west. 92% of hispanics are proud to be an american. i do not find that surprising. a lot of other people might. a 72% considered themselves to be part of the middle-class. does this finding surprise you? how do these values shape hispanic participation in politics? attorney general? >> it does not surprise me. my son is in the fifth grade in a school that is named after a medal of honor winner in the second world war. we have a distinguished and extraordinary group of veterans who are hispanic why believe are significantly above the population of our state as a percentage. the pride in the country is clearly evident. the middle-class part, i think we see -- the numbers i have seen do not dramatically change

as a block. perhaps it is something we should think about. even more new registrants are becoming independents in our state. that tracks with the majority population is doing. they are not taking a different role. they're moving right with the economy and with the general population. >> hector? >> not at all. i share the same sentiments. the hispanic community is very diverse. however, it is systemically across the board, whether it is duty for country or, in new mexico we have a high proportion of veterans, we have the highest

concentration of veterans across the country, and you saw the numbers where we have the highest hispanic population with the level of patriotism and loyalty to the american dream is similarly high. as far as the middle class, the economic indicators are that we have a poverty problem across this country. you will see that most families, whether they are under the poverty level or above the poverty level, see the american dream as their kids going to school, their kids having public access to education. i think that even if we are from a poor family, we sense that we have a large stake in this country. i think we do not go by traditional economic indicators and whether we think we are poor or middle class. i do not find it surprising that even a large proportion of hispanics living in poverty see

themselves as middle class or write on the doorstep of becoming middle-class through the youngsters, which you saw the statistics of. we are a very young population. there's a lot of optimism through education. >> you brought a great. -- great point. where do you see hispanic veterans, especially now, where do they stand? the attorney general brought up the idea of independents, which is fascinating. we say that -- we see that in california quite a bit. does that mean they are truly independent and can go through all of the issues and make a decision in the voting booth, or do they not feel akin to one party or another? what does your research show? >> certainly in the last few election cycles, we have seen their share of hispanics who

identify as democrat or lean democrat increase. there is a share that you identify as independent, up to 25% depending on the year. it might be a reflection of a lot of what you see happening among young people. among young people, you see about 1/3 of young people saying they are independent. that has stayed pretty even across the years, suggesting perhaps they are not quite ready to identify with any one political party just yet. . t

what is interesting is that these two states are right next to each other, they were the original territory. i will start with you, if you can start with the uniqueness of mexico and the issues. >> new mexico as a phenomenal place. we do not have the historic transformation is that we have seen in california or florida.

we have different generations changing so quickly. when i first ran for office, the first campaign issue that i had coming out of the gate was not how much education i had earned , the first question i had to prove to voters was whether i was truly new mexican. it was a different political context that i saw in albuquerque or other urban areas where we are found in very rich traditions. we see mexico as a very old, historic place. santa fe is the oldest state capital in the country. it is a different lens politically. it is not surprising that education, health care, and the economy are at the forefront. the state of new mexico is the same way.

beyond education, health care, and the economy, the biggest concern is the hispanic dropout rate. in a state of new mexico, we have achieved certain political participation levels that are unheard of in the rest of the country. we still have a drop out rate that exceeds 50%. on one hand, we think we are succeeding. but we have the same social challenges as any other state. our education systems are very strained right now. that is probably the top issue. >> attorney general? >> the issue for us is economic. it is hard times economically. especially hard hit our hospitality and construction trades and industries. that is where a great many of

latino workers are employed. on everybody's plate is, do we have a job in the future? what is the prospect? i know we have lost many spanish-speaking or latino heritage workers to other states because the arizona economy -- the arizona economy has got so rough lately. i also see a derivative of that, the number of scams that are specifically targeted at new citizens and spanish speakers. in the area of predatory lending, we have more than a micro industry. people basically went after the population because they were not sophisticated in mortgage lending. it took a long time. we could not find an acceptable word for home mortgage. the people coming from mexico did not have that as part of their economic tradition.

there is a word we use, but i think it was invented over the last dozen years because it is something that some many people are concerned about. first, the predatory lenders came in and take advantage of folks, sold under arizona law. all the documents are in english. many people sign the mortgages they could not understand or read. we had a significantly greater victimization of hispanics -- of the spanish speaking population. many spanish-speaking realtors and lenders, because they were speaking to people, they were trusted. they lied to their customers, and sold them very bad loans. we are reaping the whirlwind of that right now. the difference between arizona and new mexico is probably never more clear than in the current discussion about immigration and what happens when people are

here without documentation. the former attorney general of new mexico, when i was discussing arizona's turmoil, she said with great scorn, that would never happen in new mexico. we live with that distinction now. >> one of the things that you brought up was the cultural framework that people who are recently are writing to the u.s. bring. in latin american countries, you have to pay for the property into the building in cash. there is no mortgage system. there are not a lot of homeowners in latin america. i question to you is, how do these cultural mindsets affect recently arrived folks? there is an educational system that is open to everyone. the economy is different.

how are hispanics adapting? is that an impediment, or is it helping them become voters much quicker? >> let's talk about what latinos have been doing to deal with the recession. you will see some interesting patterns of things that folks are doing. in a recent survey, we asked hispanics, how're you doing with the recession? have you done any of the following things -- have you cut back on eating out? 70% said yes. have you reduced your travel? 60% said yes. we asked, have you lent money to a family member? 25% said yes, they had met alone to a family member in the last year. we also ask, have you received a loan from a family member? 17% said yes, they have received

a loan as a result of the recession. we do not know what sort of formal and is going on with the u.s. population. we ask these questions because we wanted to look at the many different ways that they may be interacting with their communities. it might be through informal lending would also ask how folks are responding in terms of remittances. they send a significant amount of money to their home countries, to family, to support the family we found that -- to support the family. if you look at all hispanics, and the last year, -- in the last year, the amount of money they are sending home has dropped. many said they were sending less than they had in the past.

while we don't know what role culture is playing in this, i think you can see that hispanics are responding to the recession in many different ways. some of it may be a reflection of their culture from their home country. we do not know for sure how different is from the general population on in formal landing. >> it could be a latino thing? >> we don't know for sure. >> of love to switch over to breaking down the political numbers among hispanic voters in new mexico and arizona. i would love to hear, what do they look like? what do we need to do to keep voters engaged while bringing in new voters? we have a very segmented audience. we have recently arrived growth in mexico and families that have been here for close to 500 years how do we bring in new voters even though they're coming from different

perspectives and mindsets? what do the hispanic numbers look like in your state? >> they are significant. let me give you a snapshot. 30% of our total population is hispanic. about 70% are voter populations. there is a huge dropoff -- about 17% are voter populations. there is a huge dropoff. 60% are registered, 40% are not. of those registered, 60% vote. that is a significant increase. president obama did a great job of bringing hispanic voters to the polls. that drop off is perhaps the biggest unknown about our entire political situation.

it is nothing new. the more things change, the more things stay the same. when i was working my father's campaigns, when is the hispanic voter going to wake up and participate, and where will they go. that is still the biggest question on the plate. it is more important in our state in terms of the total numbers. i think perhaps the question is much larger. this large number of eligibles that are not registered and registered who are not voting, you can put that together. you have the balance of change in the state of arizona depending on which way it goes. >> we have somewhat of a mixed bag. we have about 292,000 latino voters in new mexico. we have not kept up in terms of

our increase in population growth. we have not kept up in terms of voter participation. there may be some voter apathy, some hispanic voters in new mexico. i do know that demographically, we control many seats in the mexico -- in the new mexico legislature. we have a hispanic governor that ran for president. we control two other statewide elected offices. we tend to think that voter turnout, we have to drive the voters out of their homes a little more aggressively. 43% of the population is hispanic. there might always be a hispanic advantage in elections if that is possible in this country. we think hispanic voters may have become a little too comfortable. there will always be hispanic representation in the upper

echelon of political power. regrettably, we have not kept up in terms of our turnout. we have quite impressive numbers in terms of 43% of the population. >> our time is gone. we will have one last question, keep it a little short. if you had a magical powers that can apply new, what suggestion would you give your state parties in order to deal with the drop-off rate? dealing with new voters and hispanic voters, what would be words of wisdom you would share with your state parties? >> where do want to start? >> go ahead. >> words of wisdom are pretty hackneyed at this point. first, pay attention. make sure there is a personal connect with those individuals.

the drop-off numbers indicate a failure to mobilize, not just this year or last year, but certainly through my knowledge of eras on a political history, this is been an enduring phenomenon. we had one dramatic change in our voting patterns. all of a sudden, all of the numbers spike. they became -- what was considered dormiendo suddenly became very much awake. we need to make sure that the registration gets into the living rooms. they need to know what is in it for them. what the payoff will be if they become a voter. i don't think that pattern has been clearly established. it is not hereditary, and it is

not instinctual. >> i would loved answer that question. i am good friends with the former chair of the democratic party in new mexico. when messages, young people, young people, young people. recruit young candidates. it never underestimate what the power of a young voice will do to mobilize the young people of an electorate. in the language changes, the optics change in the issues change. secondly, do not be afraid of our communities. i saw barack obama organizing and hispanic old tradition communities where i never saw statewide hispanic candidates mobilizing. it was fun to watch cnn old people come together because they were not afraid of engaging. they broke stereotypes. it was amazing to see those

communities mobilizing around a presidential candidate that was in the beginnings of distant from their cultural attitudes and behaviors. the began to see the similarities of what was happening in the african- american community and in the anglo-american communities. >> ladies and gentlemen, let's keep in mind that every month, more than 60,000 u.s. latinos turn 18. we need to find out who is communicating with them. thank you all very much for joining us this afternoon. thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009]

[no audio] >> next wednesday, the supreme court will hear oral arguments about the constitutionality of campaign finance. and the panel discussion about the case in the future of campaign finance reform is hosted by the american constitution society. "america and the court's" today at 7:00 p.m. eastern. >> what is the best way to secure america? tom ridge takes a look inside the terrorist threat. and what -- and what led to his resignation.

the supreme court has a rare special session next wednesday hearing oral arguments on a campaign finance case. it also marks the first appearance by justice sonia sotomayor. her formal vestige ceremony takes place. >> it is stressful for us. we admire our colleagues. we wish it could always be the same. i have great admiration for the system. it works. there is opportunity to make sure we are doing it the right way so the new justice will be able to take some instruction from our example. a new justice can always ask the question, what are you doing this for? we can think about whether we

should continue to do it. >> c-span looks at the home of america's highest court. >> the supreme court holds a rare september session to hear oral argument in citizens united vs. the federal election commission, a case on campaign finance. there will also decide if the government can ban corporations from spending money to support political candidates. the court is hearing this case at 10:00 a.m. eastern this coming wednesday. our airing of the arguments will begin at about 11:30 eastern. a discussion now on president obama's policy in afghanistan from today's "washington journal." house is using to take their. our first guest is arnaud de borchgrave, who is the editor at

large for the "washington times." good morning. thank you for being with us. conservatives are coming out and talking about concerns about proceedings in afghanistan. tell us how you look at this yesterday in the washington times. guest: i think there are large number of public opinion in the country. then a number of the people who oppose the war is roughly 57%. k.i.a. will weeks ago is -- two weeks ago it was 51 percent said. president obama highlighted the cause of this war in his

campaign. i think the chances are that senator mccain would be president today, so he had to come out in favor of this war, provided it hadn't paid to al qaeda. -- it had a peg to al qaeda. we chased al qaeda ad of afghanistan back in 2001. -- out of afghanistan back in 2001. they are now in what as known as the federally administered i tribal areas of afghanistan. host: is this a new direction for conservatives? guest: i think part of the conservative opinion in this country is certainly against the war. i think george is now playing a the role of during the vietnam

war. -- i think george is now playing the role of walter cronkite during the vietnam war. this is when lyndon johnson decided he could not run for president see -- presidency again because once walter concrete is against the war, he has lost america. ithe war is very unpopular, and will require -- if we're serious about reaching out the taliban, as other people have said over and over again, we have to be there for the long run, and i would imagine that would be 5 to 10 tiercyears. i am afraid that our allies will not be with us for 5 to 10

years. host: you had a piece yesterday. you read that president obama is not linking with the blackberry as some have suggested, but lyndon johnson with a war that the country no longer supports and a new concrete yapping at this afghan hills. a growing number of americans can see afghanistan moving toward stalemate. what is the danger of falling out of the key aniston? gues -- what is the danger of falling out of afghanistan? guest: the danger is that al qaeda will be there right away. the bad guys will be back in the minute we give this up. al qaeda winds that particular round.

we cannot pull out for that particular reason. our allies are very impatient to get out. let's go back to what happened right after 9/11. our allies invoked article 5 and everyone rushed to our assistance. no one thought it would be there for seven or eight years. they thought one year maximum. now we have been in afghanistan 50% longer than we have been involved in both world wars. it is a very long war. host: he said there are still 100,000 troops into iraq. the 2006 bipartisan commission on our rociraq, iran looms a la.

do we need to shift our attention? guest: we have already been given from -- we have already gotten the message from his reaisrael. they feel that iran is working on a nuclear weapon. it is just as much a crisis for us as the cuban missile crisis was for us. our gueshost: our guest is arnae borchgrave. we're talking about afghanistan as well as other foreign policy issues. you can join the conversation. call the numbers on your screen.

we're also online. you can find us on twitter. you mentioned that president obama had to take a stand advocating for action in afghanistan because he had to be seen as a tough guy in some respects -- guest: tough on al qaeda. host: talk about the politics of these decisions. guest: if he came out against the war he would be dismissed by his opponents. that certainly would have defeated him in the campaign. he said this is where al qaeda is located in this is what we're going after. the problem is that al qaeda is not in afghanistan. pakistan is thathe world's most

dangerous place today. we forget what we were allies fighting the soviet union's occupancy of pakistan, what happened during the successful suit to be -- during the successful defeat we turned against them because they were working on a nuclear weapon. if you were a lieutenant in capt. back in those days, today you are one star or two star general. there's a great distress on the pakistani army, the united states. that is a very difficult situation. our enemies are located in that country, even though it is not a province of pakistan. as long as they have safe havens there, as long as taliban and

allocate have safe havens on the pakistani side of the border, the afghan war is unwinnable. i think everyone realizes that. the pakistani is -- they will nt say so willingly but having the al qaeda regime back in control does not scared them. that movement prevailed putting the civil war to an end in afghanistan, which follows the soviet withdrawal, and by 1996 they took over the country. of course, we overthrew the taliban regime after october 7, 21. -- october 7, 2001. host: this is being called a mistake. how does that influence

afghanistan? this that influence public opinion or policy? guest: it is a huge factor in this discussion, and thain that was a huge distraction from afghanistan. this particular war in afghanistan is going to cost a lot of money it made last 5 to 10 years if we are determined to stick it out. most of our allies will no longer be with us. most of us 1 -- most of the allies want out by the end of 2010. the dutch and french are now engaged in connecticut operations, offensive operations against the taliban. the others are prevented from doing so by a series of cutbacks indented by their own -- the others are prevented from doing so by a series of costly

that'saveats, invented by theirn parliaments. host: let's go to a phone call from philadelphia, pennsylvania. caller: i am really disturbed about what i am hearing now. i am a vietnam era person. during that time, we were constructed@@@@@@@@@ @ a war which was a lot murkier than this one. i see this same kind of creeping defeatism come in here. now we have no volunteer -- we have a volunteer army. nobody is forcing these people to be in the military. we are a military superpower. what is the point of being a

military superpower if you don't want to use the military? what happened in madrid, what happened in london, and i will tell you, if the talent -- if the taliban and al qaeda comes back, you'll see it in paris, warsaw, all over europe. >> i happen to agree with everything you have said. as a war correspondent, i did the duty in vietnam. i could not agree with you more. what you have just said is irrefutable. on the other hand, equally irrefutable is the fact that 57% of americans are against further involvement in afghanistan. more involved in afghanistan.

host: tell us about the comparisons between the vietnam war and afghanistan? guest: lyndon johnson had to can see that he lost public opinion. on the other hand, the conventional wisdom is that if we lost in vietnam, that would be to see in the cold war, and we would be engaged for many years to come. that turned out to be totally incorrect. we won the cold war and the soviet union -- half the states lost the cold war. al qaeda back in afghanistan automatically means there will be terrorism on all the places that he mentioned, europe and united states. host: there was an interesting piece of looking at -- comparing vietnam and afghanistan. it said there are important

differences. aalso that the u.s. has spent so much of the gdp on military spending. the amount going to afghanistan is far less. guest: obviously we can afford it. we have been printing a lot of money. there is about a trillion dollars worth of infrastructure requirements in the united states, so dollars can always be printed. i think you do need public be rigid public opinion behind you. -- i think you do need public opinion behind you. host: we have a call on the republican line. caller: this is just washington politics as usual.

this president promised during his campaign that he would try to have all troops home in 18 months. now he is talking about sending more troops. this is going to become his achilles' heel. he will not be reelected. i am 100% behind brmitt romney, and i hope he becomes our next president. guest: i am not here to express any opinions on the next president, but i do feel that the current president, if he keeps going on this track, the republicans would regain congress. this would paralyze the president for the rest of his term. unfortunately this president has taken on too much. you do your priorities one at a time, and obviously afghanistan is something that requires a lot

more prioritizing on the part of the president than has been the case. host: what are republican ideas for dealing with afghanistan? guest: i think republicans are divided on the subject. once you analyze all of the factors at play and the continuation of afghanistan, it seems to me you have to be there for the long haul, which is what general petraeus says. our allies may bailout. many of them are not doing the fighting. it requires a lot more on the part of our country. our nato commander said the situation requires about 400,000 troops. we have roughly 100,000 today. it is a country decides at france. it has the most awful to rein in the world if you could imagine. yo-- it has the most awful to

reerrain in the world. there are very difficult conditions. host: there is the younger generations and we may need to stay the course. tell us about your impression of that. guest: that is what i think i am saying, we have to stay the course, otherwise al qaeda will be back. it is a huge country. it requires a lot of troops to assure the kind of peace among the local population. today, as you know, it is mostly taliban by night and u.s. and friends by dead. that was very much the situation and that can -- that was very much the situation in vietnam. -- today, as you know, it is

mostly taliban by night and u.s. and friends by day. host: let's go to joan on the independent line calling from ohio. welcome to the program. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would like to state, you know, i know, and united states of america needs to know, we cannot afford to pull out because our government has told people the nuclear weapons and that is how our government knows they are there. they plan all of these wars. the one world order is here, alive and well. they have all been working for the devil. it is just a shame.

people are worrying about all of this, everyone needs to get on their knees and start crying. we aren't one mess. can you comment on that? -- we are in one big mess. guest: we remember that the soviets finally less on february 15, 1989, and minnine months lar the berlin wall fell. ththere certainly planning anotr 9/11. if they were given a free hand in this, which obviously we would be giving them a free and if they were allowed to return to afghanistan, i am quite sure

they're planning something much bigger than 9/11. host: guesthis is from an exper. the consequences of such a retreat would be to shift the balance of influence in the region decidedly away from the pro-u.s. forces in the direction of the most radical forces in tehran. guest: we have to factor into that the israelis, who are determined to prevent the iranians from having a nuclear capability. i think you have almost a general war throughout the middle east, because the iranian regime has of retaliatory capabilities.

oil could be at $300. this could happen very quickly. host: these withdrawals would signal a new isolationism. guest: i think there are people speculating that china is the next global power and will reap -- will be replacing 25 years from now. -- and will be replacing the united states 20 years from now. host: the is calling on the democrats' line from dayton, ohio. caller: i wanted to make the comment that i cannot believe i am not hearing republicans are suggesting we attacked al qaeda from offshore. that is what we did during the

clinton administration, which the republicans criticized very loudly. this is more politics. about trying to attack obama then it is wearing about -- then it is worrying about american security. i do not think george will is and walter cronkite. -- is any walter, great. -- walter coronkite. guest: i think you are absolutely correct and analyzing what is going on right now somebody, finally come up will have to re-spell out why we're there and what would happen if we give up. and you are right that this cannot be conducted offshore.

we need bases in afghanistan. pakistan we cannot get them. we would not be given base rights in pakistan. in afghanistan we have to maintain a base for several bases in order to conduct the bombing commissions -- bombing missions in pakistan. host: tim calling from palm springs, florida. he is on the republican line. caller: can you give me? host: we can. go ahead. caller: i am wondering what you think about the status of muslim public opinion direct the

middle east -- throughout the middle east? is russia's still interested and afghanistan and did the united states and nato were to leave, what other powers would come in to fill a vacuum? guest: you mentioned russia which is a very important factor. we just read about the tanker being blown up and killing civilians in the northern part of afghanistan, where the germans had their tactical area of operation, at is the no. supply route for nato and u.s. supply forces going to russia. it is a journey that takes roughly six to nine days. that is to replace the supply lines through pakistan that are no longer secure. how they have been under attack

by taliban inside pakistan. it is a very long trips. the other one is to the border. that is being replaced by the northern supply route. russia has been very cooperative. the only debate we have about it today is russia doing it in order to make sure that we get more involved in afghanistan and that we don't succeed where they fail. or is it because they're really worried about the influence themuslim extremism -- about the influence of muslim extremism in the region? host: on the independent line, arthur is calling from orlando, florida. caller: i would like to comment

on afghanistan. if we pull out of afghanistan and allowed to become a taliban state, it will provide a base for further turning around and taking over pakistan. if that happens, al qaeda will be given access to nuclear weapons to make 9/11 look like child's play. second, we have lost so many men dying in there and turn around and pulling out like that tells the families of those people who have sacrificed their children in afghanistan that it was not worthwhile. it also took our funding their were sacrifices for nothing. when the democrats betrayed us in the south vietnam when the cut off the supplies and cause

that to collapse, they betrayed the 58,000 americans. it resulted in how many different suicide's? if demerol collapses as a result of this thing -- if morale collapses as a result of this thing, it could be a self- fulfilling prophecy. guest: it is very hard to disagree with what you just said. as i said earlier, it answers all of the concerns you have. clearly this war has to be explained once again to the american people, hopefully to reduce the 57% better against the store. if you're president have 57% of the people against you over the commitment to afghanistan, clearly that has to be spelled out in terms of everyone relating to. if we abandon afghanistan we will have another 9/11.

host: let's look at another top story. you mentioned the nato strike. the strike, the writers say, came at a time of intense debate and after a heavily disputed election that has left afghanistan tense and at least temporarily without a credible leaders. this was a german-led offense strike. guest: they were convinced these were taliban people. these were a lot of innocent civilians helping themselves to gasoline. even the general mcchrystal says the number one concern is civilian casualties, you cannot prosecute a war if that is our principal concern. we invaded france on d-day and

thousands of french civilians were killed. they realize that was necessary in order to liberate europe. to say avoiding civilian casualties is our number one concern, that would paralyze holocaust operation. host: he has restricted the air flights. -- to say avoiding civilian casualties is the number one concern, that would paralyze whole operation. host: let's talk about how other countries, how europe in particular is weighing in on afghanistan. how committed are they?

guest: the only allied forces allowed to do abiding by their own parliaments are canada, the united kingdom, britain, netherlands, and more recently france now has 3000 foreign legionnaires. they are now allowed to conduct operations. unless they're being attacked, they're not allowed to respond. i was in spain not too long ago , and they were firing practically every night because they were attacked but they're not allowed to conduct offensive operations. host: there was a piece written about prime minister gordon brown. he said when the security of our country is at stake, we cannot walk away.

he added a safer britain requires a safer afghanistan. guest: i couldn't possibly disagree with that, but british opinion is against that. there you have the conservative party anxious to get back into power, harassing george brown he wants to make a commitment to the long-term considerations in afghanistan. british opinion is very much against this war. >> let mcaller: i think the pieu wrote 25 years ago is worth having a look at. i am so frustrated i amish huge

fan of yours. i follow politics. it bothers me the republicans are for calling the war in iraq. now we're talking about pulling out of afghanistan, which is absolutely essential for the reason you said. i happen to agree with what you have said, even though it is unpopular. i would like for you to tell us how in the future can we stop stumbling into these wars without declaring them. do you feel if we instituted the draft, if people had to commit to these things, would we be better off than we are now? is seems like we're stumbling into one ill-advice package

after the other -- ill-advised package after the other. guest: whether you will work in the hospital and dean bedpans or work in the military, some national service should be u required of everyone. i think that is what unites the country. it is not going to happen. therefore this war has to be real explained in the terms -- re-explained to those that do not understand what would happen if we were to pull out of afghanistan and find ourselves back into a pre-9/11 situation. host: let's go to jail on the republican line. -- dale on the republican line.

caller: good morning. my call is specifically, why is it that we cannot -- why is it that we cannot and aid to pakistan for tactical reasons? -- why can't we go into pakistan for tactical reasons? guest: they took the units away from the indian frontier. they lost 1400. if they had 4000 wounded in that campaign. -- they had 4000 wounded in that campaign. it did not work. they have cleaned out the swap valley, which was occupied by

taliban. they manage to do that at a time when the taliban where just 60 miles from the capital. there is not planned city -- there is not one city that has not been hit by a suicide bomber, many cities twice. in one year there about 8100 civilian casualties oliver pakistan. it is an extremely difficult situation. most of the pakistani that you or i would interface with would speak english. it gives you a totally wrong impression of pakistani opinion. just last july when the prime minister of pakistan was here he had 10 -- just last july when the prime minister of pakistan was here he had 10 journalists traveling with him.

i interrupted the conversation at the table and told the other journalists what i just said and said does anyone agree with this lady? they all agreed. just a few days ago i had the visit of the pakistani diplomat in my office and i repeated this to her. she said everyone believes that was a comparisconspiracy. i remember when i was covering the war on the pakistani side. there was an intelligence general who was telling tribal chiefs the americans had just invaded afghanistan and now we're next. it wants to come in and take our nuclear weapons away from us. the tribal chief who appears that in the intelligence department obviously believes it. that is a huge problem we face in pakistan, everyone is not on

our side, in fact, quite the opposite. host: we had a viewer right, do you think killing afghan women and children will radicalize the population against us and help the taliban recruiting? guest: i cannot imagine all war without civilian casualties. -- a war with that civilian casualties. -- without civilian casualties. host: our guest is arnaud de borchgrave. he is the editor at large for "the washington times." he has seven tours of duty in vietnam.

he covers the invasion of afghanistan. that gives you a perspective on what happens in afghanistan right now. guest: people do not remember forwars besides vietnam. i have covered 18 wars and that is a very small part of what has happened since world war ii > ii. wars seem to be part of the human condition. host: people often reference past failures of other countries and afghanistan, for example the soviet union. what is separate today? the united states had a horse in that race.

guest: every afghan has imprinted in their dna that the corner will come and try to occupy us and they will get rid of the corner as they have been doing since alexander the great. so i do not know where you want to go on the particular point, but it seems hard to say we will not have further wars. host: critics say that this is something we have to get past to make room for other countries. guest:teh brits evacuated -- the

brits were evacuated excepand everyone died except for one who is kept alive to tell the story. we've looked at the recent elections in afghanistan and quite a few people turned out to vote. the problem with the government is incredibly corrupt. that is a major concern of the united states is the growing corruption in the country. we saw corruption even among our own people with high jinks of own people with high jinks of people guarding the e on the independent line, and is calling from jackson, mississippi. caller: hello? host: welcome to the program.

caller: my question piggybacked on the last response to the guest you made. the karzai government -- i think his brother is one of the biggest opium dealers. opium is the main gdp for the country. obviously, that government wants the united states to bring in dollars and nato countries. is there a situation where the government might be playing a part in the war itself to keep the united states and nato troops there to keep money coming in? coming in? . usly the syndrome is important. the corruption is very hard to cope with, since ait has always

been very corrupt. we're trying to replace this with a democratic system of government. i think we will be lucky to move the country from the six teens -- 16 country over to the 18th century. -- 16th century over to the 18th century. if we were really committed the way we were in germany and japan after world war ii and putting both countries back on their feet, if we were to the deep -- if we were to do the same thing there, we would have to honor at least 10 more years. caller: i was calling to make a comment on vietnam. i was in vietnam. i served. one night we killed 3000 vietnamese in one battle.

we lost 57,000 people in vietnam. they do not want any more of america. at the time we collapse of afghanistan, i guarantee the taliban will want no more from america. i know good and well there is no better army in this world than the american army. they can really put it on you. i want to hear your comments to that. guest: i was working vietnam is the same time is a foreign correspondent. it seems to me we had totally forgotten at the end of the vietnam war came about. the last american soldier left vietnam on march 29, 1973. yet, saigon did not fall still two years later.

the vietnamese and we're doing quite well in between that. at that point, the vietnamese friends decided there is no point in fighting since we had been abandoned by the united states. if you read the memoirs the famous south vietnamese commander, if you read his memoirs, he concedes they were taken by surprise. how quickly saigon came within their grasp. they thought they were at least two more years from capturing a place like saigon. we have to look at what happens in congress to see how the war ended in a vietnam. ended in a vietnam. host: afghan officials confirmed

that there was a blast. but could not provide details. guest: we would hope this would be a wake-up call in germany and allow their troops to participate in offensive operations. the problem is they voted 61421 ad against additional troops -- voted 614 to 1 4 against additional troops. 1 against additional troops. host: you have talked a lot about public opinion and how

important that is. guest: i was caught in a very that ambush in vietnam in september of 1966. the company at was with it took 60% casualties. it was a 31-hour ambush. the general started throwing grenades because there were that close to us. it was the most terrifying experience i have heever had iny life. i do not know what i consider beyond that. war is a horrible thing. soldiers died minutes or an hour later. secretary gates and i have -- i have a lot of respect for secretary gates. host: in your experience

covering vietnam, was it photographs of -- we have heard how influential the coverage of vietnam was, but do you see that as influencing public opinion? guest: it is bound to influence public opinion in both directions. host: let's go to the republican line calling from north carolina. good morning. caller: i am enjoying the conversation this morning. just had a question for the gentleman. if walmaorld war ii was being fought today, with the war turned out the same in 1945 with

the news media we have today? guest: you raise an excellent point. i spent four years in the british navy. imagine the invasion of normandy. i was a sailor at juno beach that day. imagine that with no censorship. i think someone in congress would say let's bring general eisenhower back and replace him. we have roughly 9000 casualties the very first day. host:, on the independent line from new york city. -- tom on the independent line from new york city. caller: i wanted to bring up the point that either you are brainwashed or involved in some very nefarious activities in your life. this idea that the united states

has to be in an endless war for the sake of our security is an obscurity and far from what our founding fathers had in mind when they put this country together. though it may be what the british monetary -- monetarmarkt is to see. -- monarchy wants to see. host: what would you like to see happen in afghanistan? let's say 10 years down the road. guest: i am frequently asked about what i think will happen, my view is that political forecasting makes this respectable. i would hope we will leave the country of afghanistan in the

middle ages to be a modern society on the way to political development. as i said earlier on your program, that would take at least 10 more years. are we ready for 10 more years? i doubt it. host: worst-case scenario? guest: worst case scenario is we would be abandoned fight our allies. in the public opinion would become 67% against the war. host: what role do you see women playing in afghanistan? guest: they played tremendous -- they take tremendous risks. a lot of work is being done by a lot of really impressive

volunteers from many countries. and host: the democrats' line from perry, ohio. caller: first off, how many taliban soldiers are there, and how do they operate? why can't we cut off their supply lines and stuff like that, as opposed to -- bid must be hibernating in the mountain areas. why can't we get to the supply lines? how can they get so many weapons into this region? if your guest could comment on that, i would appreciate that. hguest: do not forget the border is 1,400 miles long. we have hundreds of passages where things can be brought in

from the pakistani side of the border into afghanistan. the pakistani army tried to close down these safe havens. it is extremely difficult. we had a population basically against you. they're providing safe havens for al qaeda and for taliban. if we suddenly gave our special forces permission to go into afghanistan, which would put us at odds with friends in the pakistani government, if we were allowing special forces to go in and do that, it is an impossible job. it would require tens of thousands of troops to do a proper job of cleaning out the federally administered tribal areas of pakistan. host: we have carolyn on the republicans line. caller: i would like to ask you

in talking about the american perspective of the war, the you not think -- do you think the rise against it is that we're not in the war to win it? our soldiers are fighting with arms and legs tied behind themselves. america has never seen anything so horrible. we could one day see it over a year. i worry often about afghanistan because othf the terrain and how horrible it is. guest: i think it is a very valid argument, instead of invading afghanistan as we did we should have stuck to what we were doing in the very beginning, 410 americans -- you

may remember the scenes of our guys galloping into afghanistan. they put taliban on the defensive and eventually they were defeated. many people have said this is what we should have stuck with, special forces against taliban and al qaeda. that is what was being argued at the time. it is very easy to say we should have done this or that in hindsight. we did not. let's move forward from here. host: what are you looking up for hot spots around the world? guest: iran absolutely. we have just been told that they will not restrict the expansion of the settlements on the west bank. that pushes for the prospect of a palestinian state. i certainly do not think i will

see that in my own lifetime. even though everyone is talking about the two-state solution, i do not see it coming. host: let's go to tanya on the independence line from florida. caller: mike question is -- my question is it the middle east countries are so worried about iran having weapons why is it they're not worried about al qaeda having nuclear weapons? i think they need to concentrate on helping america whichever way they can to defeat al qaeda, not only rely on europe. guest: you mention it nuclear weapons for al qaeda and weapons for al qaeda and