democracy and human rights. the european union is of great value itself. we need cooperation with the united states and other countries. the fact that today we are here to the other -- we're here together is a great help in itself. we are responsible for the reconciliation of the european nations. i want to pay tribute to those who are fighting and the defense of freedom. we europeans shall remember. we shall build, we shall build europe which was worth you -- we shall build a europe which was worth your great sacrifice. thank you.

[applause] >> will all please rise. what is now here the role of honor. -- let us now here the rolar thf honor. >> we gather here on westerplatte on the 70th anniversary of the outbreak of the second world war, the most terrible of the cataclysms' of the 20th century, paying tribute to all its victims. maybe it remembered forever. -- mayday be remembered forever. -- may they be remembered

forever.

♪

>> now i would like to ask the prime minister of poland, francois fillon, to take the floor. -- the prime minister of poland, donald tusk, to take the floor. >> why? why here? why now on the first of september in gdansk? and not in some places -- and not in some other place that the leaders of europe have gathered? why in gdansk, and why on the first of september?

why do we see here leaders of poland from the previous year s? why here in gdansk on the first of september, veterans are meeting together with young people? it wasn't gdas -- it was in gdansk on the first of september that the most terrible tragedy of mankind started and the symbols of that global tragedy can be seen everywhere that we can look here, where the first soldiers lost their lives, the first soldiers, but victims of the nazi invasion of poland,

exactly here in this place. let us look a little bit further to say -- see the barbwire of the camp, the concentration camp. there were so many concentration camps that were created by that war against humanity, against mankind, and it was in that camp that poles were killed, russians were killed, jews were killed, and germans were killed. if we look in the other direction, we would be able to see of forrest not far from a small village -- a forest not far from a small village. it was there that in the first weeks of the war thousands of people were gathered.

polish teachers, engineers, but also soldiers and people who are absolutely innocent. and they were shot down in many places. in many forests this terrible secret was hidden. this boarwar has its terrible ad tragic face, because it was here germans with a sign of a swastika or assembling hundreds and thousands of their own countrymen, the disabled, mentally disabled, and they shot them down also here in the forests.

hundreds of thousands of poles were moved away from their homes in the first week of the war, but if we look further on, very close to my home, we can see the cemetery of russian soldiers, thousands of young people who lost their lives here in the early spring of 1945. as i have already mentioned, they gave their life for liberation although they did not bring freedom to us, but we pay tribute to them. and we care for their graves. why am i speaking about those examples of the cruelty of the war? i am doing this because all of us are deeply convinced that the remembrances of the cruelty, the

remembrance of about destruction, of people in people's -- of people and peoples, it protects us from the danger of the next war. nobody in the world sustained more. as they remember the events from gdansk and all over the world, in that period nobody who has the basic responsibility will never do anything to allow this to return. the remembrancer roots are, and responsibility to make sure that a second tragedy never happens again. but gdansk is the home to many

polls. blackwell and said i can see here, but hope of many solidarity -- all at: lech -- lech walesa i can see here, the hope of many solidarity. it is possible that base to the things that we remember, says that war will never happen again. those of the samples values. however here on the first of september, everybody from moscow to row, from london to paris to warsaw, from stockholm to slovenia, the balkans, from the baltic states to the united

states, everybody without of section -- without exception, we must say today that we share those values and that they will protect us, that freedoms must be better than slavery, that democracy is always better than dictatorship, that truth is better than lies, that love is better than hatred, but respect is better the content, and trust is better than this trust. and finally, the solidarity. i do not know a single person who would be speaking here in the audience, dear countrymen, who would not share these values. it is on these values that we found in europe and it is on the values that we have found the

order of security which will cover not only be united europe but a whole continent, including ukraine, belarus, and others. we're here to give testimony that in spite of the tragedy of history, in spite of the tragedy, our nation's suffered we believe in interest crust and consequences. otherwise, such a meeting would never make sense. different interpretations of history are allowed. everyone has their own remembers. but the facts that we interpret differently audubon when nature only. we want to remember the facts in order -- not in order to use history against others but we want history to become the foundation of peace. we want the truth about the

event to become the foundation piece. today we remember the holocaust of the jewish nation, of those who lost their lives and who were murdered. 90% was destroyed here. leningrad, dresden -- we poles remember a city particularly. we also remember the words which were the symbolic beginning of this most tragic of course, at all peddler on the 22nd of august in a meeting with his generals -- adolf hitler on the 22nd of august said something that was the essence of a nightmare. he said, if you are a winner, no one wall shut down from the lies that you said.

he said that only the strong are right. in the order we want to build together, there is no place for such ideas. we want to continue building in europe and in the world the order where it is not a strong that the right, but don't write a better right. it is not the winner duse's this -- but everybody without exception. if we want to build at the order of security together, we have to reject the temptation of the domination of the strong over the week. we want to believe in the principle which founded a united europe, no contempt for the week

to be cast youhere. i want to stay here at the end that there would be no point in organizing this assembly if it was not for my and our common belief which we occurred here in westerplatte, to be repeated and herded -- heard. we're here to resist different temptations and build trust and confidence among us. we are here to speak the words that for thousands of years has been said here and westerplatte, never again. never again, war. bank. -- thank you.

>> we invite now miss angela merkel, the chancellor of the federal republic of germany. >> mr. president, prime minister, colleagues, excellencies, ladies and gentlemen today, 70 years ago, a most tragic chapter in the history of europe was ushered in by the german attack against poland. this board broad and as a role -- immeasurable suffering for many people. yet brought years of that provision -- it brought years of deprivation, of humiliation, and of destruction.

no other country suffered as long under german occupation in history as poland. particularly about part-time is that we're talking about, the city -- the country was devastated. cities were destroyed. there was hardly any building left that was not in ruins. lawlessness and violence characterized daylight, and hardly any polish town was spare this experience. garrett westerplatte, high as german chancellor remember the fate of all poles on whom untold suffering was inflicted under the criminal german occupation. this culminated in the hollow cast -- the holocaust, the systematic persecution in murder of jews in europe. i remember the 6 million jews and all those who died a cruel death in german concentration

camps and extermination camps. and i remember the many millions who lost their lives and fighting and resisting germany. i remember all those innocent people who died of hunger, cold, and disease through the violence of war and its consequences. i remember the 60 million people who lost their lives in a war unleashed by germany. words cannot adequately describe the suffering inflicted through this war and the holocaust. i bowed my head before the victims. we all know the horrors of the second world war cannot be made undone. the scars of remain forever visible. but to shape the future in the awareness of our everlasting responsibility is available.

it is an experience that europe has changed from a continent of terror and violence into a continent of freedom and peace. that this was possible is nothing short of a miracle. we germans shall never forget and have never forgotten germany's partners in east and west pave the way for reconciliation. you reached out to us germans, stretching us at hand in the spirit of reconciliation, and we grasped it with gratitude. indeed it is truly a miracle that this year we not only remember the dark chapters, the bis said unit -- of european history that we need to remind ourselves of, but the miracle that we can remember those happy days 20 years ago which brought us the fall of the berlin wall, the reunification of germany,

and european unification. for europe's quest for freedom is only truly fulfilled was the iron curtain came down, and the tradition of poland, people everywhere bravely pushed open the gates to freedom. we germans shall never forget this. we shall not forget the role of our friends in poland, hungary, and czechoslovakia, not the role of mikhail gorbachev and our western partners and allies, and we shall not forget the cause of moral suasion and truth that no one embodied more convincingly incredibly thin pope john paul ii. that is why it was particularly incumbent for germany to stand by poland's side and by the other eastern european countries when they decided to become members of the european union and nato. indeed, it is truly a miracle, a great blessing that we europeans

may live in peace and freedom. and there is hardly anything that better symbolizes the difference between 1939 and the close cooperation between germany and poland and in many friendly relations between our countries. it is the underlying strength of european unification and germany's trichet with his patience that we decided to face up to our history. in a recent declaration commemorating today's events, it was put so appropriately in a quote, "together we need to look into the future toward which we wish to go without forgetting the historical truth in all its aspects nor never belittling @." when we remember the fate of all of those germans who lost their

homes as a consequence of the war, we invariably do so in exactly the spirit described by the bishops. we do it in the awareness of the responsibility of germany which was there at the very beginning of war. we do it without ever thinking of reigniting anything that -- releasing the responsibility of germany. this is -- this will never happen. and it is exactly this. that i have come here -- and it is exactly does that brings me here to this beautifully restored city. i am deeply moved it that you have invited me in my capacity as germany's chancellor to this commemorative ceremony here today. i see this as a sign of our good, neighborly relations based on mutual trust and our true

friendships between our countries, between the people of germany and poland, and for this i am truly grateful to you. >> i was like that asked the prime minister of the russian federation, vladimir putin -- i would like to ask the prime minister of the russian federation, vladimir putin, to come forward. >> distinguished guests, mr. prime minister, distinguished ladies and gentlemen, colleagues, friends, we representing different countries have gathered here today in gdansk were the first salvos of the first bloody and violent and

dangerous war in the history of mankind took place. we have gathered to pay -- to pay tribute to the exploits of the winners at it and also to been our heads before the memories of the dozens of memory -- the dozens of millions of those paris soldiers -- of those perished soldiers. those who died at hands of the torturous at a confession cans. -- at the concentration camps. people who are not spirit -- not spare. the victory in the fight against nazism has been achieved with a humongous price.

[unintelligible] over 53,000 soldiers and officers of the red army gave their life. 600,000 of my compatriots are buried in the polish land [unintelligible] and out of 50 million of the people buried during the second world war, over half of them were citizens of the u.s.s.r.. just think about this humongous figure. our moral duty, the duty of all peoples, to dearly cherished enamoring of the eternal -- too dearly cherished memories of the eternal alliance and dramatic events of our history. recall the first days of the

war. what prompted the world to this? what were the ideas of appeasing a potential aggressor, the attempt to secure one security at the expense of one's neighbors? primarily the back door intrigues, plots, the second world war started not at once -- its roots, and i agree with those who mention this, and the weakness of the treaty of versailles, which not only registered a defeat but also humiliated germany and the wake of world war i, which was used by not he's coming to office in the mid-1930s -- by not seize nazi -- which was used by nazis

coming into office in the mid- 1930s. we need to for sake political stereotypes, passed it was, and distortions of history or keep silent. it is important to understand that cawhile talking about world war ii, knots in their accomplishments -- it will result in tragedy. this is not at all any cooperation, but at plot with a view to addressing problems. one needs to admit that all the attempts made since 1934 until 1939 to appease not senazis, wee

from a moral point of view unacceptable. and from a political perspective, senseless, harmful, and dangerous. the combination of all of these acts brought about this tragedy, the beginning of world war ii, and naturally we need to admit such mistakes. our country has done so. parliament has condemned such pacts, and we are right to expect that in other countries, too, which made a deal with these nazis, they should do the same, and not only the level of the political statement of leaders but in actions to be

adopted. naturally we need to think about the victims. without a deep understanding of all that occurred, it will not be possible to build a really secure world, to eradicate the legacy of the cold war and your remove the of -- remove the artificially dividing lines. my country not only in midst to the errors and tragedies of its involvement over the past but makes a practical contribution in building the world on new principles. my country is making it possible to remove a virtual and real berlin walls and to set up prerequisites to build a new europe without divisive lines. we need to cure ourselves of race hatred, build on mitchell distrust, on the cenacle distortion of history. this should be based on a common

moral and universal legal principles, and only in this manner can we overcome the tragic page of what war ii for the sake of the memory of the paris to and for the peaceful future of our children. the example of how we can meet -- treats its people in the past and served as the basis of the partnership between russia and germany today, over the years, and they were above the historic scoring and settlement of those scores. .

>> it's a shared history forged by so many ideals. the world worked started on the first of september, 1939. poland went through great sacrifice and pain, but it fought for the honor of europe as a whole, as it did again in 1980 under the founder of solidarity. a deep emotion brings us together here today, a complex

emotion made up of grief, pride, remorse, admiration, and hope. it reflects the changing destiny of a continent driven by war and then at peace, divided and then to united -- then it united. the first cries were heard in the terrible conflict that would become the bloodiest known to mankind. the 200 polish soldiers responded to the shelling of an enemy barrel ship by giving us a magnificent lesson in faith and heroism that the country has upheld in the face of the cruelty of war and the harshness of a authoritarianism

for more than two centuries. from the very first hour of the war, the polish resistance rose up and proved more lasting than that concrete a plot houses. few weeks later, the polish army was defeated. nine months later, general de gaulle saw friends in turn overrun by the enemies mechanical force, striking on land and from the air. in this bloodbath, history revived the age-old solidarity between france and poland. our two countries have always fought side by side for their freedom and for that of europe. on the 20th of september, 1939, the polish government in exile set up its headquarters in france where the general raised a free polish army of more than

80,000 men before the french defeat in june 1940 forced him to move to england. the polish government in exile arrived in london in the english capital on the 18th of june 1940, the same day it when general de gaulle broadcasting on radio london declared no matter what happens, the flame of french resistance was not be extinguished, and it will not be extinguished. for six years, our two countries, the freedom loving men and women of our countries fought against barbarity. french, polish, and frank a polish soldiers with their lives on the line -- put their lives on the line.

polish volunteers risked their lives. the first armored division took part in heroic fighting on the coast of normandy. i would like to pay heartfelt homage to the people -- to the polish people and their fighters, to the men and women who risked everything in the home army and resistance in their churches and schools, in clandestine universities, in order to accomplish what honor dictated. i am thinking of those who overcame indescribable despair and took part in the warsaw ghetto uprising and the warsaw uprising. i am thinking of leading polish figures, the heroes of the jewish community and the

righteous among the nation's, the man who founded the jewish come back organization with his comrade 66 years ago and saved more than 2000 jewish children', and a 17-year-old catholic student who became the main interpreter of the country's moral and intellectual imperatives. we shall not forget the light that their actions shed in a time of darkness, and we would like to talk of the future under their auspices today. ladies and gentlemen, the european idea of peace has been nourished by the most prominent minds of the past centuries, and is now embodied in our european institutions. after the war, a renewed germany

played a major role in creating these institutions, and russia, which has now been transformed, is in dialogue with them. the foundation of this european union is a shared political determination. its ramparts are unchanging values, the foremost of which are respect for national sovereignty, human dignity, individual rights, an absolute rejection of any discrimination based on race, gender, origin, or belief. for centuries, gdansk symbolize everything that could be achieved through cooperation and

conduct between peoples, with the enthusiasm generated by solid guarantee -- solidarity and the spiritual strength of lech walesa, it became a bastion for civil liberties. this is where several of the innermost convictions that enable us to live and work together airborne. today, -- were born. today we find ourselves not only a outskirts of europe, but at its heart, in a major european country. the election of the president of the european parliament has crowned poland's exemplary integration into europe. we now face a number of shared challenges together, such as the economic crisis, global warming, promoting the technologies of the future, security, energy

security, the fight against terrorism, and control of migratory flows. the european union can meet these challenges, provided that its members have the political will to implement the solutions. i know how ambition -- the contributions poland cannot make. poland should become without support and friendship, a place where the future is invented. in the very heart of gdansk, across from the old box, -- across from the old docks, there is a vacant piece of land were: can create and build. this means that the tragedy that started on this very spot 70 years ago show not only find its end, it will also find its

answer. [applause] >> we now invite the prime minister to speak. >> dear mr. president, dear prime minister, your president of the european parliament, your excellencies, ladies and gentleman, we meet today at a place of battle, but also a place of liberty. 70 years ago, polish men and women defended here their nation

and their country. from here, darkness fell across europe. free nations found themselves in slavery. ukrainians, jews, poles, russians, the french, and many other nations cried out from the concentration camps. holocaust was gaining strength. million sprayed for liberation from despair -- millions prayed for liberation from despair. over 7 million ukrainians joined the war. every second of those who survived remained wounded and disabled. all in all, at the front and concentration camps and mask.

actions, almost 10 million of my people died. together with the other nations, we have paid an extremely high price, but we have been able to overcome, and not only to overcome, we have one -- we have won. you can close your eyes to reality, but you cannot closure eyes to memories. so it is right and proper that we meet here, where europe's enslavement began, and where do rejigger two decades ago, its liberation, complete liberation took place. few of those who survived the battles for poland are with us today, but the memory of their courage lives on in all of us. as well as the memory of all those who perished at those fronts, but today, many of

their sons and daughters of poland, the men and women of solidarity who completed their struggle, they are with us today, and their courage is also our inspiration. today, in their memory, we are marking not so much the beginning of war, but rather the triumph of liberty. we reaffirm the unity of the people who fought a war of liberation, who came to join hands in an unbreakable bond of peace with those who were once at the other side of the front. it is only this unity that can make us in vincible. today, this unity continues to keep us free. our history, since those dark days, has shown that countries define themselves by the choices they make. those who endured the bitterness

of invasion, occupation and defeat, could be filled with resentment, hatred, and desire for revenge. in the years after 1945, all of europe could have moved in that direction of recrimination and rage and escalation of tension, but europe started looking for a new solidarity. a handful of nations, in forging the european union at of the ruins of four. we all must make a bold effort to understand and comprehend one another, to replace violence and suspicion with compassion and a sense of our shared destiny. a favorite poet of mind, aeschylus, broke even in our sleep pain, which cannot forget, false drop by drop upon the heart until in our own

despair, against our will, comes wisdom for the grace of god. 70 years of painful memories and bitter experience have brought us drop by drop to know the wisdom that what we need is europe it -- what we need is not hatred, not violence and lawlessness, but rather, generosity, wisdom, and compassion toward one another and a feeling of justice toward those who suffer. so as we remember those who sacrificed their lives, i ask that we pray for the understanding and compassion of which i just spoke. the victories over tyrants do not mark the end of hate. they did not bring an end to lawlessness. gdansk, poland, are now part of

a free and united europe. this is what you polls have chosen to make of them. let me ask you, as i close, to ask all of us to look beyond the worries of today to the hopes of tomorrow, beyond the freedoms that you now enjoy to the dance of freedom everywhere, beyond memory use it to the day when all of europe and all of the world will be united in peace and justice. our challenge today is a matter of healing the will. so as we recall the soros and scars of the past, as we celebrate the triumph of freedom, let us rededicate ourselves to what the ancient greeks wrote at the dawn of

europe, to tame the savagery of man and a gentle the life of this world. now about to all of those who gave their life away -- i've out to all of those who gave their lives away to make peace for us all. this is a great honor to be with you on this sacred day. [applause] >> now i invite the prime minister of the kingdom of sweden who currently holds the presidency of the european union.

♪ >> president, prime minister, excellencies, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, 70 years ago today, we saw the outbreak of a storm, a storm that ravaged our continent and spread throughout the world. world. ii had begun. -- world war ii had begun. a battleship suddenly opened fire on the polish garrison. in the years that followed, we saw nations ball, democracy stumble, and people enslaved. we saw the destruction of in valuable cultural heritage. we saw cities engulfed by fire. we saw killing that we still

find hard to understand. over 60 million people lost their lives, the majority of them civilians. this makes the second world war the deadliest, bloodiest conflict in human history. we like to celebrate the bright moments in the history of mankind, our scientific and cultural achievements, are creation of wealth and welfare, our good deeds, yet we know that man is not simply the genuinely good being we wish we were. human beings are capable amazing achievements and good, heartfelt deeds, but humans are also frail in the sense of being capable of actions that can hurt ourselves or others.

at their worst, these actions can cause enormous destruction. such actions have given us words like genocide and holocaust. though these deeds cannot of course be described in words. gathered here today, we call for the remembrance of one of the darkest hours in the history of mankind, and remembrances necessary. it is necessary because if not remember, history may repeat itself. world war ii change not only europe, but the entire world. in europe, we learned a lesson that we must build a common future, not on conflict, but on cooperation. it was a painful lesson, and that makes it even more important to remember.

never again. these were the words that rose to the skies from the survivors in the ruins left by the war. never again war. that was the founding pillar of the european project that we know today as the european union. the european cooperation that followed the end of world war ii was not only created as an escape from the extreme forms of nationalism which had devastated our continent. it was also founded in order to give the people in europe a chance to build a common future, based on values such as tolerance, democracy, economy, and rule of law. from this point of view, this year is also a year of celebration and remembrance of european cooperation,

integration, democracy, and freedom. 60 years ago, the council of europe was founded, and just two years later, the european coal and steel community was established. 30 years ago, the first direct elections of the european parliament were held, and 20 years ago, we saw the fall of the berlin wall and the birth of a new and free europe. certainly we have reason to celebrate, yet the celebrations are worth nothing if we do not remember the war that 70 years ago ravished our continent. if we do not remember the victims, the survivors and the people who gave their lives to save the others, if we do not remember and honor those who sacrificed their lives to respect for human dignity, our

collective memory becomes weaker and weaker, and the older generation, those who survived, disappear and can no longer bear witness. but here today, we must say we will never let this memory escape. we must remember. we must show that we have learned a lesson. today, tomorrow, and in the days to come. we must do so to ensure that two words will have genuine meeting as we build our common future, the words "never again." thank you. [applause] >> amar celebrations have come to an end. -- our celebrations have come to an end. i hope that the message of this assembly will stay in your memories for a long time.

will the delegations turned to the exit on the right, and the public will be so kind as to leave by the entrance through which they came. thank you. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] >> of next, a conversation on the use of contractors in afghanistan. after that, q&a with t.r. reid. then another chance to see the ceremony marking the 70th anniversary of the start of world war ii. >> the supreme court has a rare special session wednesday. hearing oral argument on the campaign finance case. it also marks the first appearance on the bench for justice sonia sotomayor.

the day before her formal investiture ceremony takes place, tuesday afternoon. . justice ginsberg and what it is like working with the other justices. >> i would say you will be surprised by the high level of collegiality here. this term, i think we divided 5- 4 in almost one-third of all the cases. one might get a false impression from that degree of disagreement. justice scalia once commented that in his early years on this score, there was no justice with whom he disagreed more often than justice brennan, and yet justice scalia it considered justice brennan his best friend on the court at that time. he got the feeling was reciprocated.

the public would not know that from reading an opinion by brennan, a dissent by scalia, or the other way around, but these were two men who genuinely liked each other, enjoy each other's company. >> hear from other justices during supreme court we, as c- span looks at the home to america's highest court, starting october 4. >> this coming wednesday, the supreme court will hear oral arguments in a case on whether the corps should overrule a 1990 decision on corporate campaign finance. we will have that argument for you on the same day takes place, starting at 11:30 a.m. eastern on c-span3, c-span.org, and c- span radio. discussion now on the use of contractors in afghanistan. this is about 30 minutes.

>> we have a discussion with the defense acquisition policy analyst for the congressional research service. tell us, what is the current status of defense contractors in iraq and afghanistan? host: of course, and i want to say that the opinions i express are mine and not my employer. that said there are 285 contractors in iraq and afghanistan combined, that's the entire region of operations. and that compares roughly to a 1:1 ratio of contractors to troops. host: why is it that contractors outnumber the uniformed troops? guest: that's interesting, they outnumber at a 1:3 ratio in

troops, and it's just under 50% in iraq. there are a .--yof reason, after the cold war there was a reduction of the size of force, and therefore we don't have enough people to deploy. so this the ability to increase the leverage of u.s. troops by having support contractors. host: define for us the responsibilities of these contractors. and how what they do as civilians differs from what the uniformed services do in afghanistan. guest: sure, we will take iraq for example, because that has a large are seven doctors and son of all the contractors are doing one of three things -- 75% of doctors.

there were things like communication and transportation, but those are basically what they are doing. they are helping build the bases and keep them moving forward like the base camp and iraq which is the largest base camp there. it includes private security contractors, and construction, which is part of not only helping build military installations but reconstruction efforts. provided by the crs support regarding the number of contractors versus troops. in iraq in march of this year. chy

host: do you see that this may change any time soon? if we can get more troops either into this pipeline from the united states or by moving troops out of iraq into afghanistan? is this going to change the make-up or is it always going to be these numbers? guest: since those numbers you discussed came out, the june numbers came out in that same report you mentioned. and in afghanistan troops increased by 9%, and in iraq they went down from 10,000 hoto 120,000 contractors. and if you look at that d.o.d. is attributing the increase in afghanistan for preparation troops falling into theater. and the anticipation from there, as more troops come in,

you need more contractors to prepare and support those troops. in the decrease in iraq that is offset by an increase in contractors in kuwait and that area. host: we are talking about moshe schwartz and his opinions are his own. if you want to call in, the numbers are listed on your screen. our first call comes from buffalo, new york, on the line from democrats, carl go ahead.

caller: yes, good mow#@ is it not true that in the past all of these functions that the contractors are providing were provided by uniform members of the military? now here we have a situation where it appears that there is not enough military members, so we fill it up with contractors. the question is should we reinsuit the draft. if we did, i would suggest we would have thousands of young people in the streets like we did in vietnam, and have those people who are apparently in favor of the military operations in these two countries, their own sons might countries, their own sons might have to serve. so what we have done is privatize it to avoid the military, is my suggestion. your comments, sir.

guest: as far as reinstate the draft, that's a policy issue, not mine. in the last 15 years there are three major conflicts, iraq, afghanistan and the balkans, and if you look at the ratios, it was 1:1 in the balkans as well. and there is increase on reliance on contractors and it's been rather stable in the last 15 years. back to the contractor congress, there was reliance for the revolutionary war. and in the civil war there was a tremendous problem from the perspective of congress, and congress wrote three separate reports, each of a thousand

pages lamenting the problems with contractors. host: the next call is from an air force base that doesn't want to give their name, we respect that. first, are you in the military service? caller: i am not. host: what kind of work do you do? caller: my question is you would tell the c-span listeners, whether or wnot ther are foreign contractors on the ground in afghanistan and/or iraq, and have there been. and specifically would you answer the question, whether or not any of these contractors are in fact israeli? thank you. host: hold on a second, are you still with me? he's gone.

guest: in the entire iraq/afghanistan region, and surrounding countries of the 240,000 contractors, overall there by the department of defense, approximately 50,000 are american, which means that the rest of foreigners. and you can go further, if you look in afghanistan, about 70% of all the contractors are from afghanistan, local nationals. and in iraq approximately 25% of them are iraqis. and there is a large contention of third-country nationals. so yes there are a significant number of people in iraq and afghanistan. but i don't know the specific nationality of some.

host: tyler, you are next. caller: good morning, i am independent and did a short stint in iraq, a two-year tour. what i want to know, i understand the difference between contractors who have to peel potatoes and contractors who have to fire a weapon. and i want to knows how many contractors are peeling potatoes and how many are firing weapons. which would bring me to black water now known as "z". since you made your disclaimer about your opinion, you know how it's not exactly the opinion of your bosses. what is your opinion on black water? guest: ok in the total number of contractors working in iraq and afghanistan, approximately

15,000 in iraq are considered armed security contractors, for the purposes of providing security specifically. and in afghanistan that number is 5,000, and those numbers are recent. the potato peelers would fall into the category of base support, and more than half of the contractors are base support. that provides a sense of how many contractors there are, in iraq 11% of all contractors are armed-private security, and in afghanistan it's about 8%. as far as blackwater, it does not have and has not had over the last years a contract with the department of defense to provide armed security in iraq, and i believe in afghanistan.

host: recently last month in a national press club news conference, former c.i. a. director talked about the responsibility of the contractors versus the responsibility of military or uniform services. this is what he had to say about responsibility. >> what people generally accuse us of doing, and i saw it reflected zgzin the "time" stor yesterday, that we go to contractors when we do not want to take responsibility for activities. let me yell out loud and kick the podium, and say that's absolutely not true. a.c.c.officers have the same moral and legal responsibilities of the actions of the government employers and

contractors operating under our authority. we do not use contractors to carve out something we want to deflect responsibility for. that simply is wrong and you should not believe that. you can crittize us for not have inherent skills we should have in the agency. and we may be vulnerable that we have to go outside for something, i got that. but we do not go outside to deflect responsibility for ourselves, period. host: mr. swharlz your comment. guest: first that was to c.i. a., and i am department of defense. one of the reasons we contractors is to free up our military personnel to go in and

perform what they need uniform personnel. there are a number of goals, to free up uniformed personnel to engage in activities that they want uniformed personnel. one distinction is security, and by and large is to use personnel to allow them to get more bang for their buck with military personnel. host: back to the phones, we have ron on with mr. schwartz. caller: yes, good morning. i would like to know that this whole thing with the private contracts, if there is a cause and effect. i know the former vice president, i hate to mention his name, cheney was

instrumental years before the first bush administration was in office, to bring about a report from halliburton, and to push the private sector. and at time they gave us the impression that we would be saving money. well, if you look at what they pay the private sector compared to what they pay our own soldiers that are really the brave people fighting. they are not there for the money, they are there to defend the country than these mercenaries, they are mercenaries that we are hiring to do the dirty work and paying huge amounts of money to these corporations. guest: one, halliburton isn't providing private security, when you use the term

mercenaries and that refers to private contractors. but halliburton is involved in generally non-private security issues. the idea of whether it's cost effective, in 20007 in the area of iraq, the department was defense was responsible for $75 billion, and that's a lot of money. but others will respond it's cheaper to use contractors in the long-term, but in the short-term it may be higher than personnel, and you need them 20 years before in place and carry them 20 years later. and a lot of people argue it's cheaper to pay them more in the short-term than spread out over

the years. host: there is writing about managing contractors, and in the report they say that some analysts assert that d.o.d. has not sufficiently provide for contracts across military services. can you explain that? guest: absolutely, there was a lot of concern about a number of agencies, a report by the army, that discussed the state of preparation and execution of contracts by the department of defense. and the question was do they prepare for the number of contractors and the roles that will be played in the contract before it occurred. and to what extent were they w[ç effectively managing the contracts in the field. and a lot of analysts concluded

there wasn't sufficient planning and preparing and effective oversight. and i will give you one example that @@@@@@ & they're responsible for managing ground -- contractors on the ground. many found that they were managing contractors for uniformed personnel and how to -- who did not get training to manage personnel. as a result, they did not have the training or experience or the knowledge. and sometimes it was not the primary responsibility but justin and salary -- and ciliary responsibility. and by the way, you have to manage contractors. do a, b, or c and that was the state. since then the department of defense has taken a number of

steps to improve that, to send more acquisition personnel who have training, more into afghanistan and iraq. and they develop more robust mechanisms for managing contractors, and instituted more training on how to manage contractors. the message was received by the department of defense, and they are currently engaging in a number of efforts to improve that. that doesn't mean by any stretch of the imagination that everything is solved, and the department of defense would say it u[ñtakes time to get where t want to get. but they are pursuing that path. host: we are talking about contractors in afghanistan and iraq, our next call is from oregon, jim. caller: yes, i am repeating what a previous caller said,

that mercenaries is what we used to use instead of contractors, both being the same. i am wanting to know why is the real reason we are in afghanistan. it used to be in world war ii people who resisted the german people were called resistants. and now we call the people who are against our being there are insurgents. which is the meaning of resistants. host: jim, we will leave it there, mr. swarltz is there a difference between mercenary and contractor? guest: in the book "the prince"

the term was used mercenary often, and when he used it, it was military that you send into war, it would be the troops, you invade iraq and war where we want. some people use the term mercenaries and others don't. as the department of defense defines them, they are used purely for defense. in other words they are not allowed to engage in operations. that's not the way that mercenaries were defined in the 1500's. and a lot of people will quibble over this debate. i would say that a distinction when one looks at private military contracts or military companies, are they a company hired to get involved in offense operations or defense

operations. that's one distinguishing point. host: dan, you are on "washington journal." caller: good morning, thanks for having me on. just a woint, i am behind a lot of comments made this morning. we haven't used a lot of contractors in the past, going back in the history when it comes to the united states and war and going overseas and different wars. my point is that it seems to me that a lot of things are being skewed when we have an all-volunteer army going into war. and using all of these contractors to help support that war effort and they are getting paid a different rate. it seems to me what was going on in iraq, there was a lot of

shady things going on with contractors and not going by the same set of field manual, the united states military and following those laws. and it really skews how our country is to operate when it comes to war. and something as big as our country going into war, it really be out in the open just what is going on, rather than using different avenues to accomplish different things. host: thanks dan, we will leave it there, sorry for the cut-off. guest: i think one way it look at it, currently we have a current size of the military force, that's today. and we have as we discussed approximately 120,000 contractors in iraq. the question is could the department of defense currently execute its mission in iraq without using contractors.

that's a way to look at it. in afghanistan they would need 120,000 boots on the ground, and that doesn't include rotations. and if you include rotations where they are in iraq and go back later, you are doubling the numbers, talking about 340,000 troops. could we accomplish the mission without contractors, and many in the department of defense say, we cannot do it without contractors. the second question, just as important, going forward how do we constitute the forces and the mix for future operations where the department of defense is deployed. do we want to use contractors in a 1:1 ratio. if we don't, how do we make up

the draft, others suggest the military and others suggest don't get involved in these conflicts. so the question is not only what we are doing now, but also are we thinking through what we are going to do in the future, and are we taking the steps now to figure that out. so we are not in a situation where we rely on contractors because we have no choice, but we rely on them to the extent that we chose to. host: does the 1:1 ratio of contractors in iraq and afghanistan, is that an example of short-sightedness of how they were going to execute the military operations in these two theaters? or just a circumstance unique to these two places? guest: that's a good question, a number have suggested that the department of defense has not defined the role of private

security contractors. i have heard one c.o. d. official say that, and the question is have they thought to review that. next year there is a q.d.r. that comes out every four years and talks of the direction of the department of defense. and the last one considered contractors as a the total force. but there is some belief that the future q.d.r. has a sense of that discussion and give us a sense of the direction on this issue. host: mike, go ahead. caller: yes, it seems that the use of defense contractors is a wiser choice. i think that á"some believe i'

a big conspiracy theory. but i can't see what is wrong with it regarding the costs that the gentleman mentioned. that's my comment, i would like to ask one question, are the training costs as low. someone building housing for fighting forces to go through boot camp and all those things, seems to be like a waste of cost. my point is that it's an effective use of assets. there is no conspiracy and i have a question about the training expenses. guest: regarding training expenses, a number of things, contractors are not trained to the extent that a marine would be trained and retained for years. in afghanistan roughly 70% of all contractors are iraqis. clearly not much of a training

cost involved there. and a significant number of contractors are involved in construction. as you would see driving down the street, for roads and buildings and wall. from that perspective you don't have an expensive training cost from that. a lot of training costs brought up are with private security contractors, particularly those from america and britain and those countries are former military personnel that are trained by the united states. and we are bearing the burden of some that of training. host: before become department of defense analyst, mr. schwartz had weapons acquisition and assistant district attorney in brooklyn, new york.

back to the phones, ed, your question or comment. caller: it's more of a comment, i am a disabled vet and i just returned fromn0p kuwait. and to the guy who said that everyone goes there for a money. i wasn't alone in this. but a lot of people go just to serve their country, because they couldn't do it in the military, whether older now or couldn't stay in the military. and to go back when i was in military, and i did see the contractors doing the jobs. i was real happy they are doing it and i wasn't, it's a relief to have down-time than the details. i wanted to stick up for the

contractors, who are getting beat up there. host: ed, what did you do before in the military? caller: i got hurt before deployment to iraq and had knee surgery and got out there. host: and that's why you had to separate from the military? caller: yes it was. host: and what kind of work as a contractor? caller: well, for the first year, i was an armed securities forces and i guarded the bases for the military. and after that i worked in the environmental department. and i had about 30o:q third-country nationals underneath me. host: where were you working? caller: i don't want to say what camp, but i was in kuwait. host: as a contractor, how much were you paid? caller: i got paid a decent

amount. host: define decent. >> i w3ñwas paid $70,000 a year. host: that's decent. guest: as whether the contractors relieve the burden on the military, that's true. and when in the military, there is a mess hall and a question, do we want uniformed personnel of people that we have trained for years, standing in front of the mess hall, or send a private contractor there and send that personnel out to perform that is part of the equation for transportation and communication as well.

>> up next, "q&a" with t.r. reid. after that, from poland, a ceremony marking the 70th anniversary of the start of world war ii, and then a discussion of the british health-care system. tomorrow on "washington journal," brian friel and david hocking's talk about the congressional debate on health care and the impact on congressional meetings. amy deemed on the labor movement, and lawrence aggression -- lawrence r. richards on the history of oppositions to unions in america. "washington journal" live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. >> as the debate over health care continues, our health care hus is a great resource. fo