tv Q A CSPAN September 20, 2009 8:00pm-9:00pm EDT
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breaking news tonight -- live to connecticut and the sudden disappearance of a gorgeous young ivy league doctoral student just before she's set to walk down the aisle. the 24-year-old beauty last spotted on grainy surveillance video walking into a yale research building. a false fire alarm mysteriously goes off in the building. people rush out. annie le is never seen again. and nearly the exact hour, le is set to walk down the aisle, wedding dress on a hanger in the closet, flowers ordered, the girl's body found stuffed in a two-foot wall cable space there at yale's research
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building. bloody clothes found high over investigators' heads behind ceiling tiles. in the early morning hours, police storm a super 8 motel to arrest 24-year-old yale lab tech raymond clark on murder one. bombshell tonight -- we confirm lab tech raymond clark spotted frantically trying to clean his own cleaning equipment, bottles, a lab cart. now we know clark was allegedly trying to clean away le's blood. stunning lab results reportedly place clark and le's dna both in that 24-inch wall space. her blood on his boots. his dna on her body. waiting tonight to determine whether it's blood or sperm. we also confirm clark's favorite signature green ink pen found
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lodged in a crevice in the basement where le's body concealed. he even allegedly went back to retrieve it. when asked on a polygraph, do you know where le is now, the alleged control freak's answer went off the chart. and tonight -- in a bizarre twist, did clark have help? an alleged accomplice to hide le's body. and finally the truth about who set that fire alarm. key card swipes placing clark at the crime scene before and after le last seen alive, revealing he's in and out of that lab no less than ten times. clark spending his workdays cleaning cages that house experimental mice. in play tonight, text messages between clark and his 90-pound victim. do they reveal motive for murder? he reportedly is covered with defensive wounds, a bead from
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le's necklace found torn from her throat on the floor of the crime scene. cause of death -- le manually strangled to death. and tonight -- uncovered. an alleged history of stalking women, allegations from a former girlfriend claiming he forces her to have sex, then threatens her when she tries to break it off. no charges ever filed. and finally tonight -- was this brutal and senseless murder all over laboratory mice cages? with a community and a university reeling, a family grieving and a young groom left at the altar with a broken heart, tonight we want justice for 24-year-old bride-to-be annie le. >> shocking developments today. reports emerge dna from the lab worker accused of killing annie le was found in both the ceiling tiles containing the bloody
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clothes and the crawl space where le's body was found. not only that, but sources now tell the hartford current that raymond clark iii was seen trying to hide lab cleaning equipment containing blood spatters. he was also reportedly observed cleaning up areas that annie le was in the day of her murder. >> reporter: raymond clark, the man charged in yale graduate student annie le in what police say is a place of "work place violence". >> apparently he was very concerned about how people kept their mice, their cages, there have been some reports that he got very upset when people wouldn't wear plastic booties into the lab or when people wouldn't keep their cages clean. >> police say he strangled this innocent bride-to-be, stuffed her body in a wall where it was found on what should have been her wedding day. >> reporter: a report that investigators traced clark and le's movements by swipe cards inside the lab. those records indicate clark was the last to see le alive.
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special guest tonight, she skydives, she nascars, and she writes. talk show morning host hln's robin meade live tonight with her new book. what's with your penchant for jumping still? >> it still feels good. >> you look really good. nobody told me how to get out. >> all this stuff. >> clutter. >> so when they're ready, the robin meade museum, i'm the girl. good evening. i'm nancy grace. thank you for being with us. at almost the exact hour a gorgeous young ivy league grad student, annie le, set to walk down the aisle, wedding dress on the hanger, in the closet, flowers ordered, the girl's body found stuffed in a wall at yale
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university's research building. tonight -- stunning details inside the hunt for a killer. >> this was not a street crime. it was not a domestic crime. it was a workplace crime. >> police looking into whether clark's attitude may have led to a deadly confrontation. >> annie le was strangled to death in the lab she worked. clark who also worked there is charged with doing it and trying to hide her body behind a wall in the basement. >> reports surface that dna from raymond clark iii was found in both the ceiling and crawl space where le's body was uncovered sunday. according to reports, police observed clark trying to hide lab cleaning equipment containing blood spatters. an official told the hartford current that he was spotted cleaning up areas le was in shortly before reported missing. >> co-workers tell police he was a control freak and territorial
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when it came to the lab an the mice that he took care of. >> being reported that he who maintained the cages and animals was upset at her, annie le, because she was leaving her cage in disorder or dirty. >> it's being reported that there was a text message the morning of the day she went missing asking her to meet with him at the lab. >> arrestsed and brought into court, facing murder charge at 24, the police chief makes it clear the lab where they both worked is where the violence was born. >> straight out to thomas kaplan, editor in chief with the yale daily news, what can you tell us about the possibility that there was an accomplice? >> well, that's what some reports have indicated today. now, we did hear from police yesterday. they said they have no additional suspects and they indicated that they don't really anticipate having any further suspects. so the police have kind of put cold water on that, but there have been some reports today. so we don't really know right now, nancy. >> now, what i want to talk about very quickly is the dna result.
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out to jean casarez, legal correspondent, "in session," i'm understanding that he was seen frantically trying to clean his own cleaning equipment. he was responsible for cleaning the experimental mouse cages and other cleaning in and around the research area. he was the lab technician. i understand that her dna is on his cleaning equipment and that he was trying to clean away was her blood? >> it's really interlocking today, surfacing that when investigators realized that annie le was missing and they went to the lab building and they were talking to people that routinely were at the lab building and at least one investigator noticed someone that seemed to be trying to take cleaning equipment and put the it away. it was later found there was blood spatter on that cleaning equipment and that was raymond clark. >> what about the rest? you're seeing photos of the suspect from myspace. jean casarez, what can you tell me about other reported dna
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results? >> well, in the ceiling tile, we heard originally there was bloody clothes. now we're hearing there was dna of raymond clark and annie le and also in that crawl space, in the closet where her body was found, there was dna of raymond clark especially a green pen that he adored, apparently. he used to sign with it every day, sign into work. it was his green pen. everyone knew he always used it. >> and to our producer there at the police station in new haven, rupa, about these allegations that the entire motive may have been over mice cages? >> that's right, nancy. there are reports out there that are coming from other media sources that there had been an e-mail chain prior to this week in the past between them about her level of taking care of the animals, the mice in the cages. then, most recently, that
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morning that she went over to the laboratory building, she received a text message supposedly from him asking her to come over and meet her to talk about this. >> to errol jones, reporter, he was in court when he appeared in court. he is there at the police station joining us tonight. al, i understand that immediately after this story happened, after this really kidnap and murder went down, yale issues a policy about zero tolerance of harassment in the workplace. now i'm hearing reports that for a long time this guy's been a "control freak," driving everybody crazy, and now we find out about repeated text messages to the 90-pound victim about how she cleaned the mice cages? >> yeah. we're hearing a little bit of conflicting information on that. you have the story from investigators who paint raymond clark as someone who guarded his turf very jealously.
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that basement lab area was his area and he felt like he was in control of it. he became very irritated when researchers would leave a mess. >> hold on. al, i'm having a really hard time hearing you. let me go quickly to jean casarez. jean, do you know anything about this alleged motive? >> well, i think they're saying they're not the sure of the motive. if you look at the text messages, which i'm sure are part of the search warrant that are still sealed, there are allegations that he was upset at her because she as a laboratory scientist was not keeping the area as clean as it should have. that was raymond clark's duty, and there may have been issues between the two of them on his part. raymond clark's in regard to annie le. >> everyone, you are seeing video, raw footage of him in court. still dressed in his preppy khaki pants and his polo shirt. to you, sheryl mccollum, crime analyst, what do you think
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with his head bowed, ankles in shackles, 24-year-old raymond clark iii was brought before a judge and charged with the strangling murder of yale graduate student annie le. >> the body of annie le his alleged victim described as a brilliant student was found inside a wall on sunday on what would have been her wedding day. >> what kind of relationship did raymond clark iii have with the victim annie le? >> the police chief did say about the relationship was that it was not a romantic relationship, calling it -- >> an issue of workplace violence. >> he was a lab technician who cleaned cages for laboratory mice that were used in that lab. she, a phd student, who did research in that lab. >> apparently he was very
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concerned about how people kept their mice, their cages. there have been some reports that he got very upset when people wouldn't wear plastic booties into the lab or when people wouldn't keep their cages clean. and there's some thought that maybe that contributed here to why he might have had a problem with annie. >> i want to go straight back to thomas kaplan, editor in chief yale daily news who broke the story of the missing student. thomas, what can you tell me? have we gotten to the truth finally about who set off that fire alarm? >> no, nancy, unfortunately no news there tonight. there have been some reports addressing that maybe raymond clark set off the alarm to give him an excuse to leave the building after he killed annie le, allegedly. but no official information from police on what happened there. >> what about it, rupa? what do we know? >> nancy, there's been a lot of speculation from various people
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and various law enforcement agencies. what i've been told by chief lewis with the new haven police department is they are still unsure whether he tripped that alarm on purpose. but i believe that the connecticut state police is still investigating this. >> well, according to the daily news, they have a source inside the police department that states, police now believe raymond clark trip the fire alarm. that would suggest to me -- let's unleash the lawyers, anne bremner and christopher amolsch, defense attorney out of washington, d.c. ann bremner, if it can be proved that he tripped the fire alarm, there goes all of his claim for insanity, his claim for crime of passion in the heat of a moment, in the middle of an argument. because he is laboriously and methodically covering his tracks. >> well, that's a great argument, nancy. when i listen to your intro, i felt like as a defense attorney
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if i was sitting in court i'd be thinking, oh, case over. but the thing is, this is so weird, of mice and murder. he's worried about the mice cages? he's upset to the point of going to kill somebody? i think in this case there's more to be seen in terms of what's going on in his noggin. it's too bizarre. this will be a weirdest motive for homicide if this is a motive. therefore i think there could be some kind of mental defense. >> okay. i think that was you answering that question by claiming -- >> it was -- >> -- that even though he methodically hid the body, was seen cleaning his own cleaning equipment spattered with his blood and he set off a false fire alarm to evacuate the building according to the daily news and hide the body, that he's still crazy. now, you know what? christopher amolsch, if you can pull all that off in the middle of yale university in a building that is high-tech security, you're not crazy.
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>> well, i think there's a different obviously between being insane as a defense and having mental issues, which is a mitigation as it relates to sentence. you're probably not going to be able to find him not guilty based on that, but you could probably find him guilty of something less than first-degree murder and spare him a life in prison maybe. >> based on what? you said something less than murder one based on that. what is that, sir? >> well, what you're pointing at is all the things he did afterwards, which really doesn't go to what his state of mind was when he committed the crime. >> it's within the same hour. it's not like he went insane and then got well. >> we don't know exactly when she was killed. we do know that afterwards he took steps to try to hide his crime, assuming he did it. >> christopher -- >> that doesn't mean at the time he did it he wasn't operating under some sort of mental deficiency. >> i can't let you get away with that because we know for a fact that she was murdered and hidden within 10:00 to 11:00, 12:00 to 1:00, three hours, within a
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three-hour space. a quarter of one, less than three hours. he goes crazy and gets well in 2 hours and 45 minutes? >> nobody is saying he's goating well. the difference between what you do now and three hours later when you realize the horrible mistake you made absolutely goes to the level of culpability. >> could you put amolsch back on the screen. did you say mistake, his horrible mistake, like oops? >> no, i didn't say that. >> you did say mistake. >> i don't think that's what i said. >> yes, you did. you said horrible mistake. >> i'll say it again. what he did was, after -- well, people can be guilty, nancy, while making bad choices, and i think that's what happened in this case. (announcer) time brings new wisdom
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mr. clark has been a lab technician at yale since december 2004. nothing in the history of his employment here gave any indication that his involvement in such a crime might be possible. >> 24-year-old le was strangled to death. >> her body was found in the building she was last seen entering. >> stuffed in a two-foot wall cable space. >> police say that this arrest warrant has been sealed and because of that they did not speak about the motive. >> apparently he had certain standards and he was concerned that she wasn't taking good enough -- clean enough care of
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the animals. >> based on what we've heard so far, his issues of control. if she confronted him or criticized him in some way or even this e-mail exchange where he -- she wasn't doing things the way that he wanted her to -- >> there is a rage there. there is a very controlling and absolutely from everything that we've learned about him, definitely you can see it. he's definitely very focused. >> joining us right now is renowned forensic scientist, world renowned, distinguished professor at university of new haven, dr. henry le. henry, thank you for being with us. my first question is -- >> thank you, nancy. >> -- if clark did try to clean up, how could you tell? how could you tell by looking at the dna, by looking at the blood markings that he was actually trying to clean up? how do you know the difference between a cleanup and blood spatter? >> okay.
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the blood spatter usually have defined characteristics, have shape and patterns. cleanup usually considers a smudge. if you use water or cleaning solution, now it become a diluted. we as experienced easily to tell. the thing i don't understand, your report say police officers saw him cleaning bottles. if the police officer saw him cleaning, should right away stop him, seize the evidence, and the blood spatter, which of course we can use to restore the pattern to determine that's a drop or a medium-velocity impact spatter, even the impact spatter, then have to have another type of a traumatic force to cause it.
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>> so, dr. lee, my simple rudimentary interpretation of what you said is, with blood spatter, now a theory is emerging that he struck her before the strangulation. that could explain some of the blood. you would see as if you had paint on your hand and did like that on the wall. >> yes. >> as compared to cleaning it. you would see a smudge mark where -- >> right. >> okay. i got it. very quickly, dr. henry lee, can you get rid of dna with, for instance, a cleaning solution? >> yes, in fact, yes. uv light can destroy some dna evidence and bleach solution can destroy some evidence. however, what this case so important is his clothing, boots, from her dna. >> exactly.
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>> her clothing from his dna, depends on the inner layer or outer layer. the most inner layer clothing on his dna become even more important. >> to a neighbor of raymond clark's, annmarie goodwin, a special guest joining us tonight from hamden, connecticut. thank you for being with us, ms. goodwin. what was your impression of him? how stunned were you when you heard this news? >> i was shocked, but knowing him like i did, which wasn't that well, i believe that he could have done it. >> why do you say that? >> just because he seemed like the type of person that could snap at any minute. >> has it ever been reported that he had a controlling personality, a control freak? >> yeah. i've said that. i said, i know him to be controlling with his girlfriend. >> in what way? >> just bossing her around, telling her to, come on, hurry
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up, like if he dropped his keys, i've seen him drop his keys, she'd bend down to get them. she always walked behind him. that type of thing. >> huh. and you personally observed that? >> yeah. they had to walk by my door twice a day, coming in, coming out, every time they left their house. >> and what exactly would he say and do? >> he was just a very negative person. every time -- i've never seen him say a positive thing. he wouldn't stop to say hello to you. he yelled at my son one time. >> about what? >> trash being in the hallway. >> how old is your son? >> i have three sons. the son that he yelled at at the time was 16. >> huh. now, when you first learned that he had been charged with murder, what was your initial reaction? >> i knew that guy was a weirdo. >> well, that says it in a nutshell, ms. goodwin.
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i want to ask you an evidentiary question. did he, in fact, live with pets? >> yes. in fact, he had two pit bulls he left locked upstairs in like -- you know those metal dog cages? he used to leave them locked up in the summer months, all day long, barking and yelping. >> well, i heard reports that he had three cats. >> i know. my son taylor said that, and to this day he swears he had cats. i never seen any cats. i'm not saying he didn't have cats. >> well, you know what? if he doesn't have a cat being he better get one. he told police that all those defensive wounds were from cats. you're seeing photos of raymond clark. we're speaking with annmarie goodwin, a neighbor of raymond clark's. to melissa vranich, psychologist joining us from new york. what is your take? >> i have to disagree this has
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anything to do with mice or clean booties or control. we're talking about a really disturbed, twisted individual who has a history of misogynistic behavior. >> what would you say the motive is? >> i would say he has a history of hating women and in this case he called her in to be able to hurt her and possibly kill her. so this does not have anything to do with mice and doesn't have anything to do with control. it has to do with anger and someone who has a really twisted, twisted, disturbed personality. >> to al jones, what can you tell me about what green signature ink pen? and how his favorite pen plays into a murder investigation? >> well, nancy, investigators believe that one of the ways that raymond clark tried to distinguish his work from that of other lab techs was to use green ink. he used a green pen to sign in
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and out of the log each day. now, the daily news is reporting that a green pen was found in a crevice in the lab room where annie le's body was. in a twist from a macgyver plot, the day after she was reported missing, the day after she was murdered, police noticed that clark was walking around the room and had a backpack. they looked in the backpack and what they found were fishing hooks, wire, and bubble gum. obviously the equipment you'd need to retrieve a pen out of a crevice. >> okay. i'll just trying to soak all that in, al jones. sheryl mccollum, you and i have handled a lot of cases together. why, why do they always go back to the scene? there could have been a million ways he could have explained away that pen. he was rightfully in the basement on many occasions. >> absolutely. >> but he had to go back with a fish hook and bubble gum? >> yeah. it is mind boggling, nancy, that he would go to that much trouble to have bloody clothes in the ceiling, hide her in the wall, but lord knows we've got to go back and get that pen.
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i'm just doing my job. thank you so much. nice to meet you. thank you for the job that you do. this is one of the makeup artists that transformed me from jaba the hut in the morning to anchorwoman. ♪ so lonely >> forget about my book. let's talk about hers. with me, my friend and colleague robin meade. will you just stop looking beautiful for just one minute? >> nancy! >> i demanded that they ruin your lighting but apparently it's impossible. >> you're such a doll. thank you. >> this is great. your book "morning sunshine how to radiate confidence and feel it too." it was very hard for me to believe, and having been a trained observer since i was in the courtroom many, many years ago, that you have ever had a confidence problem, much less one so severe that you have had panic attacks on air, which i for one have never noticed and the twins and i watch you every morning. never seen any confidence problem.
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but they were so severe that you sought help and have written this book. >> yeah. this was about ten years ago so it's before i came to hln. for me, my confidence issues were not about appearances. i think a lot of people think, well, if you look a certain way, then you must not have confidence problems. >> are you suggesting that you're beautiful? >> no, not at all. >> okay. >> nancy! i think most people -- >> because you are. >> thank you, sweetheart. oh, honey, you should see this face before the makeup people get ahold of it. >> so it's not about looks. >> for me it's whether you find me likable or not, whether the viewers find me likeable or not. this is when i worked in chicago. >> so you wanted to be liked. >> i wanted to be liked. >> see, i don't have that problem. >> therefore, people like you. >> no. actually, a lot of them hate me. but what i thought was, the more you try to please everybody, every time you change something about yourself, you lose a little bit of yourself. >> bingo! that's what happened to me.
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that's what this book is about. so for me, you know, coming up through the ranks of broadcasting pretty quickly, you go through you a lot of different bosses. but this need to be liked started when i was a child. that was my power. that was my popularity in school, right? so do you like me? if you don't like me, let me make you like me. along the way, you lose little authentic pieces of yourself because you're filling somebody else's prescription of what perfection is. so on the air it manifested in panic attacks on live tv about ten years ago. >> and would the viewers actually know you were having a panic attack? >> i couldn't breathe so it's a little bit hard to deliver the news when you can't talk! so i don't know if they knew what it was, but i know that they probably thought, what is up with her? >> robin, how did you overcome that and become what you are now? because there are so many people that have not only that problem but other problems that they
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have to surmount in order to survive and reach their dreams. so many dreams are cast aside or forgotten or derailed because of various problems. but you grabbed yours, grabbed the bull by the horns, and you wrestled. >> well, for about two years i wanted to leave my job and i wanted to leave this career. >> i read that. where you said you gave up. >> i really did. and my husband -- >> on page 68. >> thank you for reading it. my husband was the one who said, if you really want to quit -- this is me when i worked in miami. that is me in chicago just about the time i was having panic attacks. on the outside, that's me reporting at the '96 olympic here in atlanta. on the outside i was happy, smiley. those are my parents. you know, on the inside i was, i want to quit my job. my husband said, if you want to, fine. but i really think there's something up internally. i don't think this is the robin i married basically. so i really had to find out, what is the deal? and come to an understanding
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where my opinion of myself is just as important as other people's opinion of me. and that is full circle for a lot of people to come at because we're people pleasers a lot of us. that's where the problem came in. >> well, on to page 75, when the twins were born, i promised my family i would give up cursing. but for you i'm going to make an exception. you state that you released your inner bitch. explain. >> can i say that on your show, nancy? >> yes. a lot worse has been said on this show, robin meade. >> how many people, women especially, for some reason we think being nice is the end all-be all. what is nice? i was nice to a fault. i was somebody's doormat. i would let people walk on me because i wanted them to like me. through talking to a -- >> you a doormat? >> i was. i had no backbone. >> don't you think everybody, even me, wants to be liked but at a certain point you can't let
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that desire stand in the way of what is right. >> being yourself. >> what is right and saying what's right and speaking the truth. >> it took me a while to come to that. so yeah. i always say, let's go on a bitch recognition campaign. for me, it was that i now recognized, you know what? there is a part of me that is a bee-otch. but before would not recognize that and kind of hide that. >> i've got to disagree it. i see that as you being forceful and believing in something. and that in no way equals bitch. i've got to say this. i'm so knocked out by robin's book "morning sunshine." she overcame a hurdle and is now beautiful an successful and a friend. thank you for being with us. >> nancy, thank you so much. i appreciate it. >> so run, run, rush. "morning sunshine." >> for anyone who has self-doubts. and who doesn't every now and
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then? except for nancy. as we go to break, a very special happy birthday to beautiful ella stokes, jacksonville, florida. at 100, she inspires us. born on a farm in macon, georgia, she walked three miles on a clay road to elementary school. she met her husband at a little united methodist church. he was a lifelong railroad man and together they had three sons. a dedicated member of the eastern star, her joy, providing a loving home for her family. and, oh, what a cook! happy birthday, aunt ella. and happy birthday to california friend simon. he's not just celebrating his birthday today but is now an uncle for the second time of a new baby boy austin, just born in dublin. dear simon, happy birthday. and our thoughts and prayers for lieutenant colonel jeffrey henderson gs13 and soldiers from the 244th, they are in iraq and afghanistan on a special
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i don't think you can live the american lifestyle without energy. we have all this energy here in the u.s. we have wind. we have solar, obviously. we have lots of oil. i think natural gas is part of the energy mix of the future. i think we have the can-do. we have the capability. we have the technology. the solutions are here. we just need to find them here.
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and troublpassing urine. my doctor said i could be doing more to breathe better and now i am. announcer: ask your doctor about lifestyle changes and once-daily spiriva. what a week in america's courtrooms. take a look at the stories, and more importantly, the people that touched our lives. >> based on information learned from viewing video surveillance, detectives secured the arrest warrant. >> the man suspected of killing a yale grad student is behind bars. >> nine police cars came in with sirens on, and we saw him taken out in handcuffs. >> he appeared to have redness in his left eye. >> it's obvious a very serious case. the bond set by judge fisher of
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$3 million is appropriate. >> authorities compare dna from his hair, finger sales and saliva to more than 250 pieces of evidence. >> and an arrest warrant was signed charging him with the murder. clark's bond was set at $3 million. >> mr. clark, you understood those rights? >> yes. police refer to it as workplace violence. i don't know what that means. it's rare that you manually strangle your 90-pound co-worker to death and stuff her body in the wall. >> he has been arrested for murdering his ex-fiance. his ex-girlfriend was found shot
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to death outside her own home. >> i am stunned that there had been so many complaints by her about the suspect, and it wreaks of political favoritism. >> do you believe or did they take him into custody on the argument over a gun. >> they want them to tell him what they know about anything related. >> let's stop and remember, army captain snyder, a west point grad on the second tour. remembered as a spark of light in the darkness.
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cared about others. a bone marrow donor. and active in community theater. dreamed of moving to california and becoming an actor. thank you to our guest for being with us, and a special good night to the new york control. good night brett and norm. and a friend of the show, from the "young and restless," and her stepdaughter. good night to our beloved shannon who runs the fort at cnn, because she is going across the hall to court tv. see you tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. eastern. until then, good night.
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