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tv   International Programming  CSPAN  September 20, 2009 9:00pm-9:30pm EDT

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we are learning more about the 24-year-old lab tech accused of brutally murdering annie le. it appears raymond clark was living two lives. some say he was friendly and nice, but others describe a darker side to the accused killer. neighbors say he controlled his fiancee. and an ex-girlfriend reportedly claims he once forced her to have sex against her will, though charges were never filed. co-workers say clark took his job very seriously. and sources reportedly say he complained that le had left several lab cages dirty. could this have led to annie le's murder? did custodial clark see himself as lord of the lab? turning the tables on the liar.
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the hofstra coed who made up the story to being gang raped now finds herself under the hot lights of the media. she railroaded these young men with a fictitious tale of gang rape. now it's her turn to be skrut nized. why were prosecutors trying to protect her identity after plastering pictures and the names of the accused rapists all over the media. brace yourself, for the very first look inside phillip garrido's house of horrors. more than 100 pictures were just released of this disgusting hell hole. it's a firsthand look at what police say is jaycee dugard's nightmare. the house is a complete dump. garbage everywhere. what insight does this give us into the sick mind of a rapist and accused kidnapper? "issues" starts now. tonight, a slue of new development into the investigation and evidence into
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the horrific murder of the brilliant, bride-to-be, annie le. take a look at this. "the new york daily news" reporting a trail of shocking physical evidence against raymond clark iii, who was charged with punching and then strangling annie le. "the daily news" reports dna tests prove, this is from the daily news, annie's blood is on clark's boots. which bizarrely had his name on them. the paper also says annie's dna and hair were found on raymond's body. the news adds, raymond clark's special green pen which he used to distinguish himself from his co-workers was also allegedly found in the lab basement after it fell into a crevice. you will not believe how he allegedly tried to retrieve the pen. "the daily news" reports that clark returned to work the next day with a backpack that contained wire, fishing hooks, and chewing gum to try to fish out the pen that got stuck in the crevice. does this guy think he's macgyver? meanwhile, wtic in hartford claims cops are interrogating a
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possible second lab worker. all this as a chilling look at clark as a, quote, control freak at work, is coming into sharp relief. for clark's high school buddies, they're not having any of it. they came to his defense last night on "larry king." >> raymond clark is ray ray. i shouldn't even refer to him as raymond clark, ray ray. he's now the -- as of right now, the suspect in the annie le slaying at yale. >> right. >> this is not the raymond clark that i know. and, honestly, at the time being, i can't say that i believe he's guilty. >> ray ray? is that his nickname? and tonight's big issue, a theory we proposed right here on "issues." did raymond clark fancy himself lord of the lab? we'll investigate what some say was his need to be in charge. i am taking your phone calls. but first, straight out to my fantastic expert panel.
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drew findling, criminal defense attorney. lisa bloom, cnn legal analyst. and yale university law school graduate. pat brown, criminal profiler and ceo of the pat brown criminal profiling agency. dr. dale archer, clinical psychiatrist. brian santoro, who has known raymond clark since he was 12, joins me by phone. brian, hang in there. i'll be right with you. first, randi kaye on the ground in new haven, connecticut. randi, you have some information about how they tracked raymond clark? tell us about it. >> reporter: i do, jane. we talked to the source today, who has very good knowledge of this investigation, very close to it. and he told me that they have been tracking raymond clark since before annie le's body was even found. he raised their suspicion when they saw him after viewing about 700 hours of videotape from the lab building security camera. they noticed him, i'm told, on that video walking out of the building after someone, possibly him i'm told, pulled the fire
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alarm the day of the murder. they saw him on that videotape walking out of the building with his head in his hands, looking especially distraught. i can also tell you tonight that they -- the same source with knowledge of the investigation is also telling me that they did confirm that the victim's dna was found on raymond clark's body. >> wow! okay. the victim's dna. now, i've got to get my head around that. lisa bloom, the victim's dna allegedly found on raymond clark's body. but it was a while between when she disappeared and then was found, and when they finally picked him up. i remember asking the question when they cuffed him, well, wouldn't he have had ample opportunity to wash his hands? >> he's got a problem, jane. according to one report that i've seen, he told police initially that he didn't even see her on the day that she disappeared. so he's stuck with that story. he can't change it and say, oh,
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well, i can explain my dna was on her because we hugged, we said hello, i gave her a kiss on the cheek. in the course of my lab work, i cut myself and i bled on her. all that is out, if indeed he made that statement he didn't see her that day. i think if all of this dna evidence, if it's true, it's over for him. there's no good explanation for it. >> ryan santoro, you know raymond clark, you hung out with him. is this the raymond clark that you know? >> i wouldn't necessarily say that i hung out with him. i haven't seen him for about six years. we played baseball from about 12 to 18 years old. we're both the same age. >> then you hung out with him from 12 to 18 years old with all due respect. if you played baseball with him. >> that's okay. >> it's a slow game. it lasts a long time. but go ahead. >> it's definitely not the ray i know, or knew. absolutely not. a lot of me and my teammates were definitely shocked over what's going on.
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>> i'm going to read some information here and then get your reaction to it. clark allegedly sent annie le e-mails, criticizing her lax protocol when it came to handling myself and the other hygiene issues. now we're hearing chilling descriptions of his behavior with coworkers and could support our theory that clark fancied himself lord of the lab. investigators speculate his concern wasn't animal welfare, it was his need to be in charge. they described him, abc news quotes a co-worker who called him a control freak, very officious and very demanding. so ryan santoro, you played ball with him. does that match the person you knew? >> not really. he just played the game competitively and went out and played hard. i wouldn't necessarily see him being as a control freak, or anything along those lines. but then again, you know, those are, like you said, they're all theories. when it comes down to it, i think the facts need to play themselves out.
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in the long run, it's definitely not the person i knew. and a lot of people change from when they turn 18 to 24. >> well, that's for sure. sometimes the ones who seem like the most clean-cut end up being the kids you've got to watch out for. sometimes the ones that look like they're trouble end up being the pussycats. you can never tell. >> jane, one small point. a lot of guys who commit acts of violence against women are very friendly with their male friends. we're not seeing any ex-girlfriends coming out of the woodwork saying what a great guy he is. >> no. as a matter of fact, dr. dale archer, there's an ex-girlfriend, who according to published reports, that i cannot confirm, allegedly called cops when she tried to break up with him when they were back in high school. and according to that police report, she reportedly said that he forced her at one point to have sex against her will, although no charges were ever filed because she continued the relationship for a while. >> yeah, i think that you often see that with an abusive individual, that lisa's exactly right.
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they're very, very friendly and seem totally normal to their male friends. but with their girlfriends, it's when the controlling nature really comes to the front. but i really think that what we have here is not the fact that he was the lab control freak or that he was efficient and demanding. we all know efficient, demanding people that can be very god at their job. i still stand by the point that this was unrequited love. >> me, too. >> 90% of american has suffered unrequited love. we've done psychiatric studies on this and we know how horrible it is. >> i've suffered unrequited love. i didn't bludgeon somebody. >> no, jane. >> i suffered it several times. i just made a fool of myself, that's all i did. >> well, most of us go through it. we're sad or we're wiser and say just because i love somebody doesn't mean they're going to love me. but for somebody who is right on the edge, this stress can be enough to push them over the edge. >> i want to look at my panel for a second. let's look at the whole panel.
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has anybody here not suffered unrequited love? raise your hand. okay. so everybody has suffered it. all right. so i understand what you're saying, but that's no excuse. >> that's very important, though. it's not an excuse, but for somebody who is already right to that edge, this stress can be enough to tip them over the edge. i think that he went down in that lab not to murder her, but to profess his love to her with hope against hope that she was going to reciprocate to him. when she did not, he absolutely snapped. this was a passionate and brutal and emotional murder. there were fabrics of the cloth found deep inside her neck. it takes five minutes to strangle somebody. so this was very emotional in nature. and love is the strongest human emotion. and when it's not returned in a person that's already on the edge, this can be the result. >> jane, i think we're -- >> we're going to take that in one second. we're going to take a break. thank you so much for updating us on this story. all right. more on the brutal murder of annie le in just a moment. we're also taking your calls on
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this, 1-877-586-7297. five young men nearly had their lives ruined by a college co-ed who lied about being raped by them. why are prosecutors trying to protect this girl's identity? but first, inside the mind of accused killer. was raymond clark living separate lives? some people describe the dark side of this accused killer. but friends see a totally different side. rogaine? i'm just a skeptic >> the time being, i can't say i believe he's guilty. >> the time being, i can't say i this actually works. (announcer) only rogaine foam is shown to regrow hair in 85% of guys. i'll check it out and i'm like, nice., (announcer) rogain foam. stop losing. start gaining. to improve joint comfort as little as six days. six days, that's fast! (announcer) joint supplement pills are history, because elations powerful formula
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in 2003, in high school, he became involved with a girl and whether it became physical or not, i do not know the extent of that. >> he never was arrested or anything like that. but it just seemed like there was a problem within the relationship. and, you know, it was something between them two. >> in 2003, raymond clark's high school girlfriend filed a police report after what she said was
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"forced sex." listen to what ray's neighbor had to say about his current relationship. >> i could just tell you he was controlling over his girlfriend. and anytime she tried to talk to me, he would just say, "let's go, hurry up." i didn't know him that well, but what i did know of him was that i did hear them yelling upstairs. mostly him yelling at his girlfriend. >> this current jennifer pictured here with raymond on the cbs.com website recently made headlines. last year she shot down rumors about an alleged affair between raymond and a co-worker at the lab on her myspace page. and there's just a mountain of evidence coming in. randi kaye, thanks for sticking around. you say you have some new information to give us. >> our source with pretty good knowledge of this investigation, jane, told me how they tracked raymond clark and how they eventually arrested him. it turns out they were tracking him from even before annie le's body was found. they actually went to his parents' home about 24 miles away from the yale campus where i am right now, and on sunday, the day that the body wad found,
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jane, he was playing softball and detectives were in the bleachers, in the stands watching him play softball, keeping an eye on him. and then, of course, we know they went to his apartment, that's when they demanded the dna samples, the saliva sample and a sample from under his fingernails as well. eventually they tracked him down at that super 8 motel, also about 25 miles or so from here. and made the arrest. what is really interesting here is they say at first they didn't want him to know they were tracking him and they were on his trail, but eventually they did want him to. they were almost baiting him, walking around, making sure their badges were displayed walking around his apartment, hoping, really almost playing a mind game, hoping he would come out and talk to him and maybe even confess. >> wow, fascinating stuff. pat brown, i am always stunned when they say somebody who is suspected of a horrific crime goes and does something like play softball. that's chilling, if he did this. >> it's a little creepy, yes. i want to go back to the unrequited love thing.
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i'm happy with what i hear here. i've been angry all day about this. he killed this girl over some dirty cages. that's just ridiculous. the unrequited thing is not unrequited love but unrequited why can't i get the cheerleader? in other words, i'm not the most successful guy in the world. six years out of high school, i'm cleaning rat cages, all right? here i have this girl in front of me. she's a knockout girl. she's stunningly beautiful, brilliantly educated. why can't i get that girl? why is she going to go marry somebody else? that's an insult to anybody who has a psychopathic nature. they believe they deserve that. they believe they're entitled to that. if a woman doesn't respond to them when they want that woman, it's an insult to me, how dare you turn me down. make him feel like the little guy. >> remember, he was a member of the asian awareness club in high school. >> right. >> and she is vietnamese-american. >> absolutely. >> rachel in florida, your question or thought? >> caller: hi, jane. i was wondering, what exactly -- have they questioned his fiance or talked to them?
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they're talking to his high school and his friends. but have they talked to his fiancee? what exactly is she saying? >> well, i'm sure, lisa bloom, they've interviewed his fiancee. she worked at the lab along with his brother-in-law and sister. >> i'm sure they have tried to. she may have refused to cooperate. remember, the people that we're seeing on tv are the people who have agreed to give media interviews. that's not the same group that have talked to the police. she may very well have given a police interview. she certainly has not spoken to the media yet. i'm sure all the morning show bookers are circling her house trying to get that interview with her. so far she's kept her mouth shut. >> another huge development, wtic reporting today cops are interrogating another lab employee in annie le's murder. here's what police had to say when questioned yesterday about other possible suspects. >> are you saying it's possible there could be more? >> you never know where the evidence will take you. i don't have any reason to believe that, but as i told you before, we will not -- we don't have tunnel vision here.
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>> all right. and we just mentioned raymond clark's fiancee, brother and sister-in-law all worked in that same animal testing lab at yale. reportedly, none has been inside the building since clark's arrest. again, "the new york daily news" reporting clark spent an hour with annie le's lifeless body before he left. drew findling, the big question, what did he do during that hour? obviously they could find out if he made phone calls to get help in disposing the body? >> clearly they'll put a timeline together to see whether or not he was text messaging or making phone calls during that period of time. also, obviously they're going to make the allegation during that period of time, that he was trying to secret away the evidence of the crime. that's fairly obvious. they're going to allege that. jane, i do want to say, though, i feel compelled to say there's a lot of conjecture about him loving and this and that. a psychopathic comment was made. i can tell you right now that defense attorneys would be
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remiss not to look into psychiatric issues. we're not necessarily talking about insanity, but you have to anticipate as a defense attorney and these public defenders will, mitigation. if you're getting slammed by dna, you have to start thinking about it. and as dr. archer -- >> yeah, except -- >> he hides her body in a wall. that sounds like premeditated murder to me. >> as dr. archer -- >> wait a second. the president of yale says there's nothing in his history that would lead us to believe that he would be capable of murder. >> i doubt the president of yale is spending time with willard over here. >> let's not insult the animals while we're talking about this. those animals go through a lot in those tests. >> ben was the animal, willard was the owner. as dr. archer will tell you, though, most mental illnesses so often start manifesting themselves in the early 20s. >> oh, please. >> jane, you make a good point about the animals, by the way. there was a good "new york times" piece about people who worked in this particular lab and had to kill animals on a regular basis became
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tonight, will the hofstra student who lied about being gang raped ever face charges? why are prosecutors still protecting her by not revealing her identity? police wasted no time arresting the suspects and telling the whole world their names, showing their pictures. here's what one of the young men told me about his horrific ordeal. what was your reaction when you were arrested on this phony charge? >> i couldn't believe what was basically going through my mind. it was like a big nightmare. and i thought i was going to do time for something i didn't do. i was going to be punished for something that i did not do. >> it's time for us all to fight against both the culture of rape and false accusations. the accuser's boyfriend told the
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"new york post" that when he saw her sunday morning, "she looked like she just finished hot sex." she said she was raped by reluctant to call police. hint, hint. lisa bloom, would we ever know the truth if there weren't a cell phone video of this incident that one attorney said looked like a porno, not a rape? >> we wouldn't know it as soon as we know it. now we know conclusively she was not raped. it's very similar to the duke rape case, but that took a year and a half for those guys to be exonerated and some of them say they'll never get their reputation back. i agree with you, jane. somebody who cares passionately about rape victims, this case hurts me to say it, but she should be prosecuted for bringing false charges. these men did nothing wrong. they shouldn't have their names dragged through the mud. frankly, she doesn't help legitimate rape victims by making a false claim. >> absolutely not. this is their worst case scenario. we have to ask, why police acted so hastily in this case. it's not like they aren't aware of the history of false
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accusations in some other cases. you just mentioned it, lisa, 2006, three duke lacrosse players falsely accused of rape by a stripper. charges against them eventually dropped. prosecutor mike nifong disbarred for pursuing the case, even though he had no evidence in that case. before that, 1987, i covered this case, 15-year-old brauley claimed she had been raped by a group of white men. eventually a grand jury decided there was no evidence that she was ever raped. so they know that this can happen, yet they just put their photos and names all over the media. >> that's right. they shouldn't do that. but we have to be clear that there are about the same number of false claims of rape as other crimes. i have read 2% or 3%. same for theft, same for property crimes. let's not get crazy and assume that all claims are false. or even 50% of claims are false. of course, law enforcement should take every claim seriously. but they shouldn't drag people's names through the mud unless they have some substantial
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evidence. >> lisa's, here's my problem with this. the prosecutor said in a news conference as soon as they started talking to her, they could tell there was something fishy in denmark, and this story had a lot of holes in it, inconsistencies. how come the cops didn't pick up on the inconsistencies before they held their news conference, announcing all these arrests? >> you're absolutely right. that's a huge drop of the ball by law enforcement and by the prosecutors. i think we should be more careful in this country when charges are announced, not to attack people, not to drag people through the mud. i know, jane, you're always careful to say, allegedly, and to remind people of the presumption of innocence. when there is not strong evidence from the beginning, we have to be very careful how we talk about these things. because it's very hard once these claims are made for somebody to get their reputation back. >> got to leave it right there. absolutely right. you know her as the host of hln's "morning express." robin meade revealing a whole other side in her new book, how she conquered her demons.
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