frightening dark insights on raymond clark, the yale lab tech accused of killing annie le. his high school sweetheart says he was so controlling that he'd tell her when to talk, what to wear. she says it got to bad, police had to escort her to and from school. how was this guy working at yale? a so-called slut least circulating all over a top-ranked high school. we are talking 13 and 14-year-old girls here. and degrading sexual descriptions of them. words so vulgar, can't even read them all on the air tonight.

get this some girls are so upset, but it's because they didn't make the list. you are an important part of the show, everybody, so make sure you call us at 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail us at cnn.com/primenews or text us. start your message with the word "prime." this is your chance to be hear. >> controversy, opinion, europe point of view, this is "prime news." welcome to "prime news," everyone. i'm ashley ban field in tonight for mike galanos. no revelations on accused yale killer raymond clark and a somewhat sordid past. his high school exgirlfriend now making frightening accusations. she says he got very angry even had that look in his eye. she says it got physical. here's jessica del rocco talking about their relationship on abc's "good morning america". >> started to get a little

controlling in the fact where it was what i could and couldn't wear and where i couldn't go and how i should speak and like stuff like that and just from there it just escalated. you know, it's don't go here, don't be friends with these boys and these girls are okay and, you know, you're talking to much or you're not talking loud enough. >> now, investigators are going back to the scene to that campus lab where they found annie le's body stuffed in a wall, nearby bloody clothes tucked into the ceiling tiles. but is this an open/shut case. joining me lieutenant steve rogers commander of a criminal investigation division at the nuttily police department. starting with this new information police and investigators are returning to this lab. my assumption is that was a crime scene, possibly no longer a crime scene yet back at it. what do you make of that. >> well, they are probably going to look for new evidence, new leads. perhaps there's marks on walls

that certainly will indicate there was a struggle. we're learning from this past girlfriend of his that he was physical. he could have, unfortunately, been very physical with the victim and there could be evidence there that they didn't get before. >> so, you think that what she's saying right now publicly on "good morning america" is having a bearing on the way this investigation's going? >> well, i believe that the police are going to check out every lead they can get, every bit of information and, yes, sometimes it's after the fact we learn a lot more about a suspect and a victim which will add value to the case. >> lieutenant, this morning she went a little further on "good morning america" but diane sawyer despite her best efforts could not get her to really give up the goods on what she meant by he was getting physical. i want to play for you and our audience part of her comments. have a listen. >> he did get physical.

it escalated a lot after -- i mean, when the controlling issue, it escalated, some there. >> when you say "get physical," -- >> yeah. i'm sorry. i don't want to talk about that. >> there are certain things that police -- >> exactly. >> -- have requested you not to talk about. >> yeah. >> okay. so, that's a little more telling, perhaps, lieutenant, that she has been told by the police stay off that topic in public y. do you suppose that is? >> it could be very personal. my heart goes out to these young people victimized by criminals like. this we can learn lessons from this, ashley, and tell the police, report to anyone, counseling gruns, women groups, if you will, if you are abused in any way shape, or form. this could be a very deep personal scar on this young lady's life and something that perhaps should be kept -- >> i don't doubt that but something in me tells me it has

more to do with what the police have and the case they are building and what they don't want the public to know or potential jurors. what do you think of that? >> well that, could be there. could be patterns the police are developing or see from the information this young lady is giving them so they don't want to blow their case on something that might be said. >> so, here's something i wanted to ask you about. if, in fact, they are going back to the scene of the crime, to the lab, to do some further csi analysis i all i can assume at this point -- perhaps, i don't know if he's talking from the future defendant himself, which makes them go back and corroborate by picking up more evidence? >> let's say hypothetically -- there was a sexual assault. well, there's evidence there then that the police are going to be looking for just add value to their case. he could have admitted to that or they could be basing that assumption, if it's true, on the

interviews they had with this young lady and perhaps others have come forward who have known him and have given the police information. >> so, clearly, this young lady is talking a lot about details of their sexual relationship that were not pleasant. i think at one point she and her mother have actually discussed with police he had force had had tore have sex with them but they never did -- you know, no charges were ever filed this that kind of complaint but all along the police have said, lieutenant, in this case this was workplace violence. it had nothing to do with sex. should we be buying into that at this point or could there be a lot more down the road we're going to learn. >> well, i think there is a lot more down the road we are going to learn. preliminary investigation certainly indicated workplace violence but with the police going back to the scene and listening to what this young lady has to say, you know what, there may be a new road the police will take this investigation down and we may find out that there may be more victims involved of either assaults, sexual assaults or some other type of crimes that

he had committed. >> he thinks it is a mystery we are just at the tip of at this point. certainly we'll have more on that so stay with us if you can, lieutenant. we'll find out why investigators are pushing so hard to get back at that scene, get back to the stuff maybe they missed before. could there be more arrests in the future? it can be tough living with copd... but i try not to let it slow me down. i go down to the pool for a swim... get out and dance... even play a little hide-n-seek. i'm breathing better... with spiriva. announcer: spiriva is the oúly once-daily inhaled maintenance treatment for both forms of copd, which includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. i take it every day. it keeps my airways open... to help me breathe better all day long. and it's not a steroid. announcer: spiriva does not replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. stop taking spiriva and call your doctor

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back talking about the brutal murder of annie le, the yale grad student killed days before her wedding. in fact, her body was found on her wedding day. police are now returning to that campus lab at yale where remember body was found stuffed in a wall. in fact, gruesomely so.

they say her limbs were actually broken so that she could fit into that space. we are taking your calls on this story 1-877-tell-hln. want for let you know we also have joining ounce this story psychologist michelle goland. let me scoot over to you about this incredible revelation that we're hearing from this former girlfriend about the controlling nature of this, you know, future defendant in this case. i'm sure you have a lot of insight as to what this means. >> well, i thought it was so interesting when this tragic story first broke the way that it was reported as a case of workplace violence and what it really made me think of was really the amount of bullying and workplace violence that does go on in our country and often it is and we're hearing about him not just in his previous relationships, as with the 16-year-old but even older, where he was controlling and violent. but, at work what we find with

bullies is they have a lot of anger and fault-finding over trivial matters -- >> but, are you buying this, this is actually work place violence especially we have this ex-girlfriend telling us he was so controlling. >> yeah. >> he made her walk a certain way, talk a certain way, wear certain clothes? >> yeah. i mean, again, i think, you know, people who are violent in their home are often violent or angry in their world outside of the home. this guy's world, according to many was he was a great basketball player. he was really well liked. this is the ex-girlfriend's character sooigs of him. he doesn't sound like he was a brute. >> again, what i think we'll come to find out, at work it sounds like he was pretty controlling and angry and sent e-mails and did that sort of thing and i think what we are often seeing this is also behavior that is maybe directed mostly towards women. and i'm wondering if what happened in that situation was that annie le had sort of pushed

him a little bit, confronted, you know, said it is' not okay what you're doing. >> or give me a break? >> yeah. or like, whatever. you know, and confronted him or demeaned him, where he perceived himself being demeaned, that he then acted out aggressively. i mean ishgs don't think this was a crime that he planned on committing. it doesn't appear to be that. it appears to be, you know, where he sort of lost it. >> well, if it was planned, it wasn't planned well because there was a whole mittful of evidence lift behind b. that evidence, lieutenant rogers ishgs wa, i want to ask you, if they have returned to that scene and combing through that lab again, saying they got new evidence but won't tell us what it, is that's not unusual, this is your line of work, not mine, but who do you think they are questioning now, who are they talking to? where are they casting this net? >> well, it's going to be that net may be cast rather wide.

you know, the question that comes to my mind, were they given information that someone else could have been there or that he could have talked to somebody about this? so, that's what they're going to be looking for. i've got to tell you, ashleigh, the problem they face right now is that crime scene was no longer a crime scene, as you said. so, it's been cam it inned. >> that's what i thought. you go back to something where the tape has been taken down -- by the way he has public defender's when some of the best in the evidence, i'm saying that's garbage evidence. >> -- maybe they are looking for someone when may have been talked to by the suspect or a witness. >> well, hold that thought for a minute. they are saying they are not planning any more arrests but i have heard that story before and sometimes it changes so i'm going to wait on that one and i want to talk to you guys about a couple of other stories coming occupy than the program so sit tight for a moment. this one is a horrific crime.

a small town on the edge right now, an illinois family of five including three kids, all of them brutally murdered. now, the hunt is on for whoever is responsible for this. call us, 1-877-tell-hln. give us your thoughts on this one. back in a minute.

thanks for being with us on "prime news" i'm ashleigh banfield in for mike galanos tonight. how repulsive is this, degrading sexual remarks, a so-called slut list, i'm not kidding, making the rounds at a top-ranked high school. are you ready, girls on the list are just 13 and 14 years old. some of these girls say it is all in good fun. are you kidding me? do you think that's okay? want to hear your opinions on it, 1-877-tell-hln. going to talk about it in a moment. first, though, just coming in brand new details about a family of five senselessly and brutally

murdered in beason, illinois, a mother , father, three children, all of them dead. cops wrapped up a news conference minutes ago. they said yesterday that no one was shot and now today they are saying the parents and the children died of, are you ready, blunt-force trauma. again, three kids? we're now getting reports police are searching for a sharp-edged tool, unbelievable. back with us lieutenant steve rogers also joining us ryan denam. let's start with you, ryan, as the reporter on the scene covering this story, why has it been so difficult to get details out of a story that's now four days old in a community that is terrified? >> i don't know. that's a big question here from obviously the media. but, it is really making an impact on the community, the lack of answers. at this point, out of that press conference there, police have now formed a task force that is

going to investigate and already have over 100 calls that have come in on their tip line and they didn't really give out much more at the press conference, obviously the blunt-force trauma has come out of that. we now know that the littlest girl, the survivor is in critical condition at the hospital and obviously we reported earlier today that the police are looking for a cylindrical or sharp-edged object. >> they won't say what it is. >> that's true, they won't say what it is. >> do they know or just not saying. >> i would soo assume they know but can't say for sure. >> meantime a small farming community barely heard of anything of maybe a stolen bike in their police blotter and no one has said anything to anybody for almost 24 hours there could be a maniacal killer on the lose? >> that's true. they said they had to rule out a murder-suicide before they went forthwith the release of the homicide. >> i get that, i understand that. although if i'm a neighbor, i'm

really mad. lieutenant, why don't you jump in on that. at the same time, telling people to lock their doors a full day after all this, he could have been within feet of other people's homes. >> i certainly understand the need to make sure that the information which is disseminated is accurate. however, i can tell you that, at least what the police department i work for, our policy is to get as much information out as soon as possible because the public could become a great help to you. and i'm a little puzzled frankly why they are not releasing the type of weapon that was used. but, they must have rens. i suppose they don't want to compromise the case and would rather error on the side of safety. >> man, i've heard of receipt tense in and investigation before but not even suggest to the public who could help to find what they are looking for. they have people investigating and looking all through the fields for some kind of a blunt cylindrical object but that's all they are saying. maybe they don't know. i tell you what, about that information you are talking about and getting that out there we are going to get some out

right, the truck description apparently within somewhere between six and ten hours prior to all, this i could be off on my times, a truck was found or at least spotted in this area, gray in color, a ford ranger or s-10 pickup chrome exhaust pipes coming out of the bed of the truck. that's a pretty good description from people who might have seen it. but that's all they have to go on at this point. ryan, do you know anything more? >> well, at this point, beason is pretty quiet. the cops have pulled out of town. this morning there was very, very little action going on there today. we just found out just a little while ago that the person who discovered the bodies is the step-father of the father in the family who's killed. >> oh, good lord, a family member made this discovery? >> correct. he came by the home and discovered the bodies. and, obviously, obviously not doing very well, i assume here. >> was he the one who called 911. >> that's correct. >> he was. so, what about -- ryan what about these reports that shots were fired? because there was this fear that

these -- that this family had been shot to death and yet they have come out saying clearly no one died from a gunshot wound. where did that come from. >> well the thinking here the step-father here who discovered the bodies and saw probably wounds on the body obviously serious enough to appear to be gunshots, or traumatic enough to appear to have been gunshots and police heard that and decided to send that out in the press release. obviously since an autopsy was confirmed that walls confirmed there were no shots and had to backtrack on this. >> quickly with ten seconds left, the victims, kids, were all under the age of, what, 14? >> i think one of them was 16, the oldest was 16. >> and there's a 3-year-old who survived? >> yes, she survived in critical condition right now but stable at peoria hospital. additionally there is a disabled daughter also who is part of the family. >> okay. all right. ryan and steve stay with me for a moment. more similar stuff coming to us

from florida, a woman and her five children murdered -- ppp

i'm ashleigh banfield in for mike galanos tonight. teen-aged girls making a so-called slut list at school unbelievably degrading remarks made at 13 and 14-year-olds girls at a top-ranked millburn high school in millburn, new jersey. parents are appalled the descriptions for these girls they are so vulgar i can't even sensor them well enough to make sense to read them on tv. here is a couple of the least offensive that we've been able to find. my friends practice oral sex on me because i'm a man.

next one, i am so desperate and hairy that i'll give you niqul for free if you get with me. this one. keeping up with the family tradition, bnd me over and knock me up. like i said, those were the least offensive of the other ones, so graphic i've never heard of 13 and 14-year-old girls even using words like that. i really want to hear your thoughts on this. 1-877-tell-hln. here to talk about this sarah louise lazarus, who broke this story. also michelle golland, and robin bond defense attorney and former prosecutor. sarah let me start you with. >> okay good i'm having trouble believing this is actually true. girls will be girls but this is really, really raunchy. how bad is this, how pervasive is it and where are these lists? >> oh, you ask me some questions that i don't have answers to. but, i think that the reason why this has been startling is

because this is very atypical for the community of millburn. it's an extremely fine academic school. it's a community in which parents care deeply about their children and their children's education. >> and yet, sara, these are the seniors writing up a list. >> yeah. >> -- about the incoming freshmen kids? >> that is the story. and -- >> what's the deal? what's the reason for it, is it hazing or what is it? >> yeah, apparently it's a ha soodzing ritual and apparently, unfortunately, the kids on the list are the popular ones, are the ones who really have stood out in eighth grade. >> is this supposed to be some kind of badge of honor? >> uh-huh. >> really, this is good? >> some kids may find it that way but the reality is that most of the community is deeply concerned and -- and horrified and really ready to take action to see that this never happens

again. >> you think? i mean -- >> oh, i do think. i not only think, ashleigh, i know because i was at a recent board meeting, board of education meeting. >> and they are taking it seriously. >> -- monday night and there was unanimity in the word between parents and the board of education and the administrators that this is unacceptable behavior and that we will -- we in the town of milburn and i happen to live there, as well -- >> you want to believe this but i have to be honest with you i'm going read a letter the principal sent to some of the parents then i'm going to give you my impression of this letter in terms of just how serious they're taking this. it starts this way any so-called rituals which in any way threatens, degrades or makes youngsters feel intimidated or less than whole is a violation of school policy and just plain wrong but how about we're going to terminate these students if we catch anybody with this list, you are gone, expelled -- actually michelle golland, why is this not stronger worded?

>> i am so disturbed by this story. and partly because what it focuses on, ashleigh, is that this is about female and girl aggression. this is bullying. this isn't hazing and this isn't atypical of any community. this is what can happen and how females cause pain and aggression against each other. >> how weird is this, michelle, some of these girls are upset because they're not on the list? >> well, you have to understand. it actually makes total sense to me. it's the seniors who fear the popular eighth grald killers coming in that are now going to be freshmen bullying and female bullying is about power status. i'm going to take you down because i'm afraid you're prettier than me, i'm afraid you're smarter than me and i'm afraid you're going to steal my boyfriend so i'm going to rumor spread or i'm going to create alliances against you. this is how females agres against each other.

>> here's the weird thing, apparently some of the kids are saying this is all blown out of proportion and, in fact, it's the kids who ultimately are on the list as freshmen who are the writers of the list when they become the seniors. so, apparently this is a horrible thing. but apparently this is not new. sara -- it's gone on for a decade. >> that's what is so disturbing to me is that the school, the articles that i have read is that the school officials were saying, well, this has been going on for ten years. this should have been stopped and there should be already, you know, acts against the people who had done it previously and -- >> how many years has this been going on? >> to my understanding, it's been going on for a good number of years, probably -- >> what's a good number, decade or more. >> probably 15 or so. however, i think there are some years when it's been less and some years when, like this year, when it really went really over the line. >> well, i tell you -- >> and i complete -- i think

everybody in town that i know agrees that this has gone over the line. >> hold that thought for a minute because i said at the beginning -- wait a second i'm up against a break. i have to say i have robin bond for a reason because coming up should the high school of the girls making these so-called slut lists be in trouble, legal trouble, that's robin's area coming up in just a moment.

female announcer: from jennifer, get 40% off this bonded leather sofa, just $299, with very cool styling and so affordable. at 40% off, just $299. from jennifer. this girl is the nastiest skank -- i've ever met. do not trust her. she is a ugly slut. >> hmm. that clip from the movie "mean girls" but the real-life story is playing out at a top-ranked

high school in new jersey. senior girls making a so-called slut list and on it names of 13 and 14-year-old freshmen girls and alongside their names vulgar descriptions that are too racy for even me to say on tv. we're taking your calls right now 1-877-tell-hln. and, jacqueline, you are on the line. what are your thoughts, my dear. >> caller: thank you for letting me be on tv. >> what do you think? >> caller: he personally think this is very gross and the girls that aren't on this list should be very happy about this because it's discriminating. >> it is but i understand you are a high school freshmen too and some of these freshmen girl are upset about not making the list. you can explain this to me? >> caller: i think they are upset because they feel are not pretty like those other girls and like, oh, she's not on the list because everyone thinks she's pretty, come on when you dress like that you really not really pretty. >> you are a smart freshman, my friend.

-- it was a traumatic experience and something to this day that still bothers me. emily, i'm with you. look, nobody is a stranger to bullying in all of this but i've got to be honest this could be bigger than that. call me crazy but, robin bond, you're an attorney and i'm seeing some things that i don't think sit well and actually could be actionable. i don't know how you feel about this but the principal apparently wrote some remarks and posted them online, apparently took them down offline but the "new york times" got them and this is where the principal said. a simple rule about hazing, three ds, don't do it. discourage it. distance yourself from others who act improperly. we will be having a longer talk about this in assemblies. you will hear this message again. robin bond, they took the posting down. i'm starting to wonder if parents have any right to sue the school not be tougher on something that maybe could be

considered sexual harassment? >> definitely, i would look at a corporate liability theory here and you analyze the duty, the school has the duty to keep the students safe. was that duty breached, was the cool's breach of the duty the reason these kind of lists could exist and did those lists cause damage to the students? that damage is emotional, psychological, or physical because, as you know we've had some stories about violent physical mudslinging fight type hazings, too, that have occurred in other high schools. >> you know, robin, we've had stories of kids submitting suicide over -- >> absolutely, just like on the internet. absolutely these are terrible wrongs -- >> what about this, libel. >> oh, yes, those are civil wrongs but you were sue the individual girls for that because is tha is the dissemination of an untruth or false statement that puts another person in a light of disrepute or scorn or shame and,

again, that causes them damages. so, we do have to have a girl that is the subject of this slut list stand up and say, you know, i'm emotionally damaged by this or i suffered physical injury -- >> let me jump in with michelle for a minute. i've got about 10 seconds here so make it quick but is that going to be what would end this or is this never going to end? >> what we need to make sure people realize there are dire consequences to this behavior. i work with clients every day who were traumatized from being bullied by other girls and verbal verbally othered or physically othered and it's a horrible experience and i think we need to, as women, as mothers, own it. >> all right. >> and change it for our own children. >> got to cut it off there, guys. i got to cut it off i'm flat out of time. but thank you to all. abercrombie and fitch coming up a suit over a head scarf a

teenager claiming her head scarf did not fit the look. so, is this discrimination? i want to get your views on it. 1-877-tell-hln.

new lawsuit could mean big trouble for abercrombie and fitch a. muslim teenager says they refused to hire her all because of her head scarf saying the store has a "look" policy mean nothing headgear. it was either the scarf or the job. >> and he was like, no, she can't work here no matter what wearing that on her head. >> wow, not hiring someone about a headscarf, is this religious discrimination? you can call us 1-877-tell-hln, we always want to hear your thoughts on these. joining me robin bond again on this segment.

darren cavinoke, criminal defense attorney, too and also with us bash radio sealy i've got to start with you, this is an eeoc matter. i'm trying to figure out if there's a fine line here between religious discrimination and something that's just simply a fashion problem for a company that's all about selling sex. >> well, it's not a fine line. it's actually the law. title 7:00 of the civil rights act of 1964 prohibits discrimination on the basis of religion and requires that employers provide reasonable accommodations to their employees' religious beliefs or applicants' religious beliefs unless it would cause an undue hardship. >> i'm glad you mentioned that because i grabbed title vii because i wanted to read it

myself. and here it is. that's where i'm hanging this whole thing, barbara, call me crazy but undue hardship could mean a lot to be a ber krom bee and fitch all about selling sexy and doesn't want people to wear certain things that aren't sexy. why isn't this fair they determine how they want their marketing staff to be? >> they're entitled to have a look policy and to do that, unless it discriminates on the basis of an individual's religion. and a business can operate its business however it wishes but it must comply with state and federal law. >> i get it. why is it not undue hardship on abercrombie they've got somebody wearing a head scarf and does not fit with their product. >> because what does it do to cost them? how does it result in people, in this particular case with

abercrombie kids with adults coming into the store with their children, how is that, wearing a head scarf preventing or causing them not to buy the -- >> well, i hate to say this but some people actually fear that look, whether it's right or wrong, they fear it and some people definitely don't think it's sexy. the whole idea of hajab -- darren, where do you fall into this argument. do you see they would say, you know, i would see people walking by my store. >> i think both sides have their point and this is not an easy one. it would be easy if we took religion out of it. clearly if i was an l.a. dodgers fan and wore my l.a. dodgers fat everywhere then abercrombie or any other employer could say, look, you can't work here unless you loose the hat. talking about religion, though, it does take on a different leaning and, clearly, this is going to turn on whether this is an undue hardship. i tend to lean towards the part of the employer who has a duty

to its shareholders to turn a profit and the right to control that environment and abercrombie's business turns on this image of sexiness and, i mean, obviously they would turn down for a job just flat. >> are you kidding? you completely scream sexy. are you kidding me? glasses and bald head. everybody's talking about that. let me get robin bond in on this. because i keep wondering if she had gone to hooters, and was told, you can't wear your hijab here, in fact, you can't wear anything that you're wearing now, you've got to wear itty-bitty tiny things here, would we be talking about the same story, robin? >> it's the same concept. as you all know in the casinos, the dress codes have been considered a bona fide occupational qualification, a bfoq, meaning this is considered an integral and central part of the employer's style and atmosphere, and very successful,

or integral to the success of the business. and i think that's the same argument that abercrombie & fitch would make. how will the court define an up due hardship. primarily the courts have defined that as anything more than a mere trivial expense, and have been pretty leap yent in permitting employers to have their dress codes. >> do you think this will be an uphill battle? >> no, i don't think it will be an uphill battle. but i also don't think it's a slam dunk. you never know what's going to happen when you bring a lawsuit. you never know what a jury is going to decide. >> i'll say. >> one thing that i want to say is -- >> got ten seconds. >> the courts also require the employers to look at the particular individual's request for reasonable accommodation. in this case, allowing samantha eloc to wear a hijab -- >> i've got to end it there. i'm flat out of time.

>> welcome to comcast local edition. my guest this hour is dr. faye williams, national chair of the national congress of black women. thank you so much for joining me. >> it's always great to be here. >> now, for those that may not know, what's the mission of the national congress of black women? >> well, we are an organization that works with the community, mainly with young people. we have a program for 9-12 years old where we teach them about the wonderful vocations there are in life. we bring in ambassadors,

athletes, and we want them to know that they can be more than a singer, dancer, or football player. we have another program for which comcast is our media partner on young ambassadors. we try to teach young adults to navigate life. we teach conflict resolution, about vocations, and about going to school, the importance of time management, discipline, that kind of thing. >> thou, you have an anniversary awards luncheon coming up. you recognize numerous women for their wonderful accomplishments. when is the luncheon? >> sunday, september 27th. people remember it by the sunday morning following the congressional black caucus. it's at 11:00 this year, which is a change of time. >> where is it located? >> this year at the united states naval yard, sixth and m street southeast. we're looking forward to having

a wonderful time. there's a beautiful view of the water there. >> and in celebrating your 25th anniversary, congratulations, by the way. >> thank youia who are some of our honorees? there's an extensive list. >> we always honor first our founding chairs and fathers. we want to salute them first. janet lange heart corn, we have several other women, we always honor the newly elected blank congresswomen. that will be marsha fudge this year. we have a judge from michigan, judge denise langhart mars, and

i'm sure we have a couple of more, a general manager of a car dealer, ms. craft from the area, and of course, our wonderful chair, president of the northern verge urban league laverne chapman. regina kelly, the subject of the movie american violet. >> you have an extensive list of women that touch us in so many areas of our lives. >> we have a good mother award. this year it's being received by peter harvey. we are honoring him, because as an attorney general, he worked very hard on domestic violence. that's one of our projects. we honored him. last year we were honored that have kami brown. >> thank you for honoring him.

>> we are probably the only organization in town that has a $75 fundraising ticket. that's the general admission. there are corporate tickets, member tickets, and general membership tickets, general public tickets. they are selling pretty fast this year. when they hear about the honorees, people want to bring their young children, especially young women to meet these people. they can meet the young lady that flew across the country. >> thank you for joining me. >> we hope to see you there this year. >> my pleasure, definitely. my guest has been dr. faye williams national chair of the national congress of black women. if you're interested in what comcast is doing in your area, go to on demand and click local.

for comcast local edition, i'm donna richardson.

frightening dark insights on raymond clark, the yale lab technician accused of killing annie le. his high school sweetheart saying he was so controlling, that he would tell her when to talk, and what to wear. she says it got so bad, that police had to escort her to and from school. so big question -- how do you suppose this guy was working at yale? a so-called slut list circulating all over a top-ranked high school. we're talking 1 and 14-year-old girls here. and degrading sexual descriptions so vulgar, we can't even read them or even describe them on the air.

and get this. the some of the girls are upset that they didn't make that list of the. you're a very important part of this show. call us, 1-877-tell-hln. also e-mail us, cnn.com/primenews. or text us hlntv, start your message with the word prime. this is your chance to be heard. so take it. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com welcome again, everybody, i'm ashleigh banfield. i'm sitting in for mike galanos tonight. new revelations on the accused yale killer, raymond clark, and a somewhat sordid past. his high school ex-girlfriend is now making some frightening accusations. she says he got very angry, even had that look in his eye, and then she says it got physical, too. here is jessica delrocco talking about that relationship on abc's "good morning america." >> about three months into everything, he started to get a

little controlling, in the fact where it was where i could and couldn't wear, where i couldn't go, how i should speak and stuff like that. just from there it escalated. it's don't go here and don't be friends with these boys and these girls are okay. you know, you're talking too much. or you're not talking loud enough. >> well, now investigators are going back to that campus lab where they found annie le's body stuffed in a wall. nearby, there were bloody clothes that were tucked up into the ceiling tiles. so is this an open and shut case or is there just a whole lot more? joining me to talk about that, criminal profiler pat brown. clinical psychologist, michelle. and dr. lawrence cob lynn ski, a forensic scientist. larry, i want to start with you, my friend. they went back to the scene of the crime. the csi folks have already been over that thing. they ripped down the crime scene

tape. what could they possibly be going back to it for? >> that's a very good question, ashleigh. because we try to collect all the evidence the first time around. i mean, you really don't want to leave any stone unturned. some crime scenes you have an opportunity to go back and look through it again. my suspicion is, now that they have all of the evidence, and they have a cause of death, they will be going back to ascertain for certain that there are no other suspects that need to be looked at. and there may be some additional evidence that they have not yet found. trace evidence is sometimes difficult to collect. and they just want to make sure that all the is are dotted and ts are crossed. >> pat brown, in your line of work, criminal profiling, do you

think that the comments that we heard from this ms. delrocco may have anything to do with the way the investigation is going or returning to the scene, or is that all for our consumption, it makes no difference to police? >> ashleigh, i think most of it is for our consumption. i think the police went back to the scene for other reasons. the other thing they're going to do is look at any computer records that he has, any paperwork that he has. that he might have mentioned annie le in them. they start talking to people to see if he had eyes on her, communication with her before, how much time he spent in the lab near her. if he went to her website and looked at her photos of her wedding. what jessica described was an obsession within a relationship that here's a woman and she has to do what i tell her to. and if she doesn't, like she said, if he doesn't get his way, he's going to get his way. he wants that power and control, not over men, but women. >> there was something she said

to diane sawyer, and god bless diane sawyer for getting as much as she could out of her. this is how physical he would get with her. have a listen. >> he would frighten me. he would get physical. it escalated a lot after -- i mean, with the controlling issue. it escalated from there. >> when you say get physical? >> yeah. i'm sorry, i don't want to talk about that. >> there are certain things that police -- >> exactly. >> -- have requested you not talk about? >> yeah. >> michelle, you're the criminal psychologist, or the clinical psychologist anyway. i'm surprised that the police have said to this young woman, don't go talking about fizz i cattle with this young man. i'm trying to figure out why. >> what i'm thinking is it may be that he choked her. you know, he's a batterer. what she's describing is teen dating violence. he was obviously a batterer from an early age, and it continued

on until he actually, what it seems, killed somebody. >> allegedly. we've got to say that. >> yes. >> he's got cuffs on in this picture, but he's innocent until proven guilty. i've got jury duty tomorrow. i'm not con visting this man. larry, to michelle's point, if there was a choking, i hear you talk about touch dna and transfer dna and all sorts of things like that. can you just give me 30 seconds on that? >> yes, absolutely. when you touch an object, you shed cells from your fingertips. and that would be a real solid linkage finding raymond clark's dna around the neck of annie le would be a very, very telling sign. it would directly link him and directly link him to the cause of death. >> i'll ask you a whole bunch more about the kinds of things they'll look for in that lab. we've got a whole lot more details on the murder of annie le coming up. we'll also find out why investigators are searching that crime scene for more evidence.

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back now taking your calls and talking about brutal murder of annie le, the yale grad students who was killed just days before her wedding. in fact, her body found on her wedding day. the police are now going back to that campus lab where her body was found. and poking around for some new evidence. we're taking your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. we've got laura on the line from indiana. hi, laura. >> caller: hello. >> what are your thoughts? >> caller: first off, good afternoon. >> hello. >> caller: and my heart-felt condolences go out to the family

of annie le. >> amen. >> caller: i was watching your program, and if this man is indeed found guilty of this murder, it's very fortunate that he was caught now, because i'm sitting here thinking, he had a lot of the same characteristics as a serial killer named ted bundy. what an amazing perceptive thought. in fact, pat brown, was that what you were thinking when you started hearing the stories about how genial and handsome and friendly the basketball player that everybody liked earlier on when these two were dating? >> well, the guys say that. it's interesting that women went into relationships with this kind of men. ted bundy's girlfriend said he was totally creepy once she got stuck with him. it's usually the males they're trying to be friends with and show they're really great guys. the women, that's who they want to control. >> she said three months into this thing she had had enough. just like what you said, started to get creepy. for the first three months,

great, the next three months he was telling her what to wear and how to walk. >> this kind of man will look for a very nice woman, that the nicest women are taken in by this kind of guy. in other words, they're sweet people, often naive and say, he has this problem and that problem, but everybody does. so they look for that kind of woman. not the tough street girl who will say, buddy, you can't do this stuff. it takes her a long time to realize, oh, my gosh, i'm stuck in a relationship with somebody who's carey. the serial killer thing, if he's guilty of this crime, he has the same kind of traits. sometimes they have different ways of expressing, whether mass murderer or serial homicide or domestic violence of the sometimes you don't know which way it will go. in this case, if this is all true, we know it went from a domestic violence situation to something that happened in a workplace. seriously, nothing to do with the workplace, everything to do against women. >> michelle, what did you think about that comment laura told us that she was reminded of ted bundy? >> i can really understand that,

against the charismatic side of him. again, i think the fact that his aggression is aimed at women, and i think that it is a case of workplace bullying. again, i think what we need to understand is that the violence prior to the incident if this is what happened, and the yale president said something that they're going to take very seriously now any harassing, or tretening e-mails, or communications, which had me thinking that he must have been doing that, not only to annie le, but to other people in the workplace. which is what people are saying. >> maybe miss delrocco's comments will be the tip of the iceberg. let me get larry to join in here. i wanted to say i wanted to talk more dna with you and forensic science. i'm still curious as to what you think the clothing might yield. there was clothing stuffed up into the ceiling tiles of that lab. i'm curious if that landed in your lab, what would you be

looking for? >> well, i think that the first thing you would do is examine the clothing for any kind of stains, any kind of contrast using different light sources to focus in on the possible presence of dna that could be used to link the clothing to raymond clark, and therefore, to the victim. >> how about that luminol that you always use? >> luminol is a presumptive test for the presence of blood. i think that in this case there is also the issue of skin cells. as you brought out, touching an object, you shed cells which contain dna. and that could provide the important linkage. so sure, luminol certainly is going to be used. not only on the clothing, but around that general lab area. >> just quickly, larry, from your experience, i know you've been in a lot of courtrooms, i've got ten seconds left, do you think the defense attorney will run over the fact that they had to go back to the lab to do

investigation after the crime scene was opened up? >> i think they'll point out there must have been a problem but i don't think they'll get very far. >> you guys are great. i appreciate your thoughts so much. a horrific crime the next story that has a small town on edge. an illinois family of five, including three kids brutally murdered. now the hunt is on for who's the interior "positively oozes class," raves "car magazine." "slick and sensuous," boasts "the washington times." "the most striking vw in recent memory," declares-- okay, i get it already. i think we were in a car commercial. ♪ yeah ♪ yeah.

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thanks for being with us on "prime news." i'm ashleigh banfield sitting in for mike galanos tonight. do degrading sexual remarks, a so-called slut list, i'm not kidding, making the rounds at a top-ranked high school. are you ready? girls on the list are just 13 and 14 years old. some of these girls say it is @@ all in good fun. are you kidding me? do you think that's okay? i want to hear your opinions on it, 1-877-tell-hln. going to talk about it in a moment. first, though, brand-new details about a family of five. senselessly and brutally

murdered in illinois. a mother, father, three children, all of them dead. cops wrapped up a news conference just moments ago. they said yesterday that no one was shot.@ and now today they're saying the parents and the children kied of, are you ready, blunt force trauma. again, three kids? we're now getting reports that police are searching for a sharp-edged tool. up believable. back with us lieutenant steve rogers. and online news editor for the bloomington pantograph. covering this story, why has it been so difficult to get details out of the story that's now four days old in a community that is terrified? >> i don't know. that's a big question here from obviously the media. it is making an impact in the community, the lack of answers. at this point, the press conference there, police have now formed a task force and is going to investigate. they've already had over 100

calls that have come in on their tip line. and they didn't really give out much more at the press conference. obviously the blunt force trauma has come out of that. we now know that the littlest girl, the survivor is in critical condition at the hospital. and obviously we reported earlier today that the police are looking for cylindrical object or sharp-edged object -- >> but they won't say what it is. >> that's true. >> do they know or they just aren't saying? >> i assume they know, but i can't say for sure. >> in the meantime, this is a small farming community. they barely heard anything maybe other than a stolen bike in their police blotter. and no one said anything to anybody for almost 24 hours that there could be a maniacal killer on the loose? >> that's true. yesterday they defended that decision. they said they had to rule out a murder/suicide before they went with the release of the homicide. >> i think that's fair. i get that. that makes sense. at the same time, if i'm a neighbor, i'm really mad. lieutenant rogers, i get it, police have to do their work. the most important thing is to

find out what's right before you terrify people. but at the same time, telling people to lock their doors a full day after all of this, he could have been within feet of other people's homes. >> well, i certainly understand the need to make sure that the information which is disseminated is accurate. however, i can tell you this, at least the police department i worked for, our policy is to get as much information out as soon as possible. because the public can become a great help to you. i'm a little puzzled why they're not releasing the type of weapon that was used. they must have reasons. i suppose they don't want to compromise the case so they would rather err on the side of safety. >> man, i heard of reticence in an investigation before, but not even to suggest to the public to help what they're liking for. they've got people looking all through the fields some kind of a blunt cylindrical object. maybe they don't know. about that information you're talking about, and getting it out there, we'll get some of that out there right now. the truck description apparently

within, i think, somewhere between six and ten hours prior to all of this. i could be off on my times. there was a truck that was found, at least spotted in this area, gray in color, a ford ranger or s-10 pickup, chrome exhaust pipes coming out of the bed of the truck. that's a pretty good description from people who might have seen it. but that's all they have to go on at this point. ryan, do you know anything more? >> well, at this point, they're pretty quiet. the cops pulled out of town this morning. there was very little action going on there today. we just found out a little while ago that the person who discovered the bodies is the stepfather of the father in the family who was killed. >> oh, good lord. the family member made this discovery? >> correct. he came by the home. and discovered the bodies. and obviously not doing very well i assume here. >> was he the one ho called 911? >> that's correct. >> what about these reports that shots were fired? because there was this fear that these -- that this family had

been shot to death. yet they come out saying clearly no one died from a gunshot wound. where did that come from? >> the thinking there is that the stepfather here ho discovered the bodies, he saw probably wounds in the body that were obviously serious enough to appear to be gunshots, or to have traumatic enough to be gunshots. police heard that and decided to define it as a possible shooting in a press release sent out. obviously since an autopsy was performed, they confirmed there were no shots. they had to back track on that. >> i want you to tell me real quickly, the victims, kids were ul aunds the age of 14? >> i think one of them was 16. the oldest was 16. >> there's a 3-year-old who survived? >> yes. she's in critical condition right now. but stable at a peoria hospital. additionally, there's a disabled daughter also who was part of the family, yeah. >> all right. ryan and steve, stay with me for a moment.la more similar stuff coming to us from florida. a woman and her five children

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i'm ashleigh banfield sitting in for mike galanos tonight. teenage girls maiking a so-called slut list at school. unbelievably degrading sexual remarks aimed at 13 and 14-year-old girls. this is happening at a top-ranked mill burn high school in millburn, new jersey. parents are appalled. the descriptions for these girls, they are so vulgar that i can't even censure them well enough to make sense to read them on tv. here are a couple of the least offensive that we've been able to find. my friends practice oral sex on me because i'm a man.

next one, i'm so desperate and hairy, that i'll give you nyquil for free if you get with me. and then this one, keeping up with the family tradition, bend me over and knock me up. like i said, those were the least offensive of the other ones. they were so graphic, i've neve@ heard of 13 and 14-year-old girls even using words like that. i really want to hear your thoughts on this. 1-877-tell-hln. and here to talk about this, sarah lee, reporter who broke this story for alternative press. and michelle golland a clinical psychologist. and robin bond, defense attorney and former prosecutor. sarah, let me start with you. i'm having trouble believing that this is actually true. girls will be girls. but this is really, really raunchy. how bad is this, how pervasive is it, and where are these lists? >> you're asking me some questions that i don't have answers to. but i think that the reason why this has been startling is

because this is very atypical for the community of millburn. it's an extremely fine academic school. it's a community in which parents care deeply about their children, and their children's education. >> yet, sara, these are the seniors writing up a list about the incoming freshmen kids? >> that is the story. >> what's the deal? what's the reason for it? is it hazing, or what is it? >> apparently it's a hazing ritual. apparently the -- unfortunately the kids on the list are the popular ones, are the ones who have really stood out in #th grade. >> is this supposed to be some kind of badge of honor? this is good? >> some kids may find it that way. but the reality is, that most of the community is deeply concerned. and horrified and really ready to take action to see that this never happens again.

>> you think? i mean, let me -- >> i not only think, ashleigh, i know. because i was at a recent board meeting, board of education meeting on monday night, and there was unanimity in the room between parents and the board of education and the administrators, that this is unacceptable behavior. and that we will -- we in the town of millburn, and i happen to live there as well -- >> i want to believe this, but i'm going to read a letter that the principal sent to some of the parents. and then i'm going to give you my impression of this letter in terms of just how serious they're taking this. it starts this way, any so-called rituals which in any way threatens, degrades or makes youngsters feel intill dated or less than whole is a violation of school policy. and just plain wrong. how about, we're going to terminate these students if we catch anybody with this list, you are gone, expelled. michelle, why is this not stronger worded? >> yeah, i am so disturbed by

this story, and partly because what it focuses on, ashleigh, is that this is about female and girl aggression. this is bullying. this isn't hazing, and this isn't atypical of any community. this is what can happen, and how females cause pain and aggression against each other. >> but how weird is this, michelle, that some of these girls are upset because they're not on the list? >> well, you have to understand, it actually makes total sense to me. it's the seniors who fear the popular 8th grade girls coming in that are now going to be freshmen, bullying and female bullying is about power status. i'm going to take you down because i'm afraid you're prettier than me. i'm afraid you're smarter than me. and i'm afraid you're going to steal my boyfriend. so i'm going to rumor spread, or i'm going to create alliances against you. this is how females adegrees

against each other. >> here's the weird thing. apparently some of the kids are saying this is all blown out of proportion. and in fact, it's the kids who ultimately are on the list as freshmen who are the writers of the list when they become the seniors. so apparently -- but apparently this is not new. it's been going on for at least a decade. >> that is what is so disturbing to me. the articles that i have read is the school officials were saying, well, this has been going on for ten years. this should have been stopped, and there should be already, you know, acts against the people who have done it. the. >> let me get sara to answer to that. how many years has this been going on? >> to my understanding, it's been going on for a good number of years. >> what's a good number? decade, more? >> 15 or so. however, i think there are some years it's been less and some years when, like this year, when it really went really over the line. >> i'll tell you what -- >> i think everybody in town

that i know agrees that this has gone over the line. >> hold that thought for a moment. i said at the beginning -- i'm up against a break. i have robin bond here for a good reason. coming up, should the high school of they was girls making these so-called slut lists be in trouble. legal action, that's robin bond's area. ( laughs, click ) when you hear a click, ( clicking ) you know it's closed and secure. that's why hefty food bags click closed. hefty! hefty! hefty! so you know you've helped lock in freshness and lock out air... to help prevent freezer burn. be sure it's secure with hefty food bags. just one click and you know it's closed. hefty! hefty! hefty! ( click, click, click )

get 40% off this bonded leather sofa, just $299, with very cool styling and so affordable. at 40% off, just $299. from jennifer. this girl is the nastiest @@ skank i've ever met. do not trust her. she is a ugly slut. >> hmm. that clip from the movie "mean girls." the real-life story is playing out at a top-ranked high school

in new jersey. senior girls making a so-called slut list. and on it, names of 13 and 14-year-old freshmen girls. and alongside their names, vulgar descriptions that are too racy for even me to say on tv. we're taking your calls right now, 1-877-tell-hln. and jacqueline, you're on the line. what are your thoughts, my dear? >> caller: thank you for letting me be on tv. >> what do you think? >> caller: i personally think this is very gross. >> yeah. >> caller: and i really think that the girls who aren't on the list should be very happy about this. because it's discriminating. >> well, it is. but jacqueline, i understand you're a high school freshman, too. and some of these freshmen girls are upset about not making the list. >> caller: i think they're upset because they don't think she's not pretty like the other girls. she's on the list because she's pretty. if you dress like that, you're basically really dirty. >> you are one smart little freshman, my friend. these lists have been going on forever. they were even lists made in 5th

grade voted for the most ugly girl in class. it was a traumatic experience and something to this day that still bothers me. emily, i'm with you. look, nobody's a stranger to bullying in all of this. i've got to be honest, i'm starting to see this could be bigger than that. call me crazy, but robin bond, you're an attorney. and i'm seeing some things that i don't think sit well. and actually could be actionable. i don't know how you feel about this, but the principal apparently wrote some remarks and post them online, apparently took them down offline. but "the new york times" got them. and this is what the principal said. a simple rule about hazing. three ds. don't do it. discourage it. distance yourself from others who act improperly. we will be having a longer talk about this in assemblies. you will hear this message again. robin bond, they took the posting down. i'm starting to wonder if parents have any right to sue the school for not being tougher on something that could be maybe considered sexual harassment.

>> well, you know, definitely i would look at a corporate liability theory here. and you analyzed the duty, what's the duty. the school has the duty to keep the students safe. was that duty breached? was the skeel's breach of the duty the reason that these kind of lists could exist? and did those lists cause damage to the students? that damage is emotional, psychological, or physical. because as you know, we've had some stories about violent physical mud-slinging fight type hazings, too, that have occurred in other high schools. >> you know, robin, we've had stories of kids committing suicide over things like this. absolutely. these are terrible -- >> robin, what about this. libel. >> oh, yef. those are civil wrongs. but you would sue the individual girls for that, because that is the dissemination of an untruth, or a false statement. that puts another person in a light of disrepute, or scorn or

shame. and again, that causes them damages. so we do have to have a girl that is the subject of this slut list stand up and say, you know, i'm emotionally damaged by this, or i suffered physical injury. >> let me jump in with michelle for a minute. michelle golland, i've got about 20 seconds here, so make it quick. is that what would be to end this? >> no,ive think what we need to make sure of is people realize that there are dire consequences to this behavior. i work with clients every day who were traumatized from being bullied by other girls, and verbally othered, or physically othered. it's a horrible experience. and i think that we need to, as women, as mothers, own it. and change it for our own @@ children. >> i've got to leave it there, guys. i'm flat out of time. thank you to you all. we've got abercrombie & fitch coming up. a muslim teenager claiming she was turned down for a job there@

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new lawsuit could mean big trouble for abercrombie & fitch. a muslim teenager said @@ abercrombie refused to hire her all because of her head scarf. she said the store has a look policy. that means no head gear. it was either the scarf or the job. >> and he was like, no, she can't work here no matter what, wearing that on her head. >> wow. not hiring someone about a head@ scarf? is this religious discrimination? you can call us at 1-877-tell-hln. we always want to hear about your thoughts on these. joining me now, robin bond again on this segment. she's a defense attorney, former

prosecutor. darren kavinoky, a criminal defense attorney, too. barbara sealy in the st. louis district for the equal employment opportunity district. this is an eeoc matter. i'm trying to figure out if there's a fine line here between religious discrimination and something that's just simply a fashion problem for a company that's all about selling sex. >> well, it's not a fine line. it's actually the law. the title 7 of the civil rights act of 1964 prohibits discrimination on the basis of religion and requires that employers provide reasonable accommodations to their employe employe employees' religious beliefs unless it would cause undue hardship. >> i grabbed title 7, because i wanted to read it for myself. and here it is. the term religion includes all aspects of religious observance and practice unless an employer

demonstrates he's unable to reasonably accommodate an @@ employee's or prospective employee's religious observance or practice without undue hardship. on the conduct of the employer's business. that's where i'm hanging this whole thing, barbara. call me crazy. but undue hardship could mean a lot to abercrombie & fitch. it's all about selling sexy and doesn't want people to wear certain things that do not sell sexy. why is this unfair that they @@ determine how they want their marketing staff to be? >> they're entitled to have a look policy, and to do that. unless it discriminates on the basis of an individual's religion. a business can operate its business however it wishes, but it must comply with state and federal law. >> i get it. but why is it not undue hardship on abercrombie and it does not fit with their product? >> what does it do to cost them? how does it result in people in this particular case, with

abercrombie kids, with adults coming into the store with their children, how is that -- is wearing a head scarf preventing or causing those adults not to buy the -- i hate to say this, but some people actually fear that look, whether it's right or wrong, they fear it. and some people definitely don't think it's sexy. the whole idea of hijab is to be unsexy. darren kavinoky, you're a marketing genius. you're a lawyer but you also get that whole thing. do you see that abercrombie could say, you know what, i could see people walking by my store? >> yeah, i think both sides have their point. and this is not an easy one. it would be easy if we took religion out of it. clearly if i was an l.a. dodgers fan and i wore my l.a. dodgers hat everywhere, then abercrombie, or any other employer could say, look, you can't work here unless you lose the hat. when we're talking about religion, though, it does take on a different leaning, and clearly this is going to turn on whether this is an undue hardship. i tend to lean towards the part

of the employer who has a duty to its shareholders to turn a profit and the right to control that environment. and abercrombie's business turns on this image of sexiness, and obviously they would job, and a kidding me? it's the same concept and as you all know, the dress code has been qualifications as we say, a bfoq, meaning this is considered an integral part of the

employer's atmosphere and a very successful or integral to the success of the business. and i think that's the same argument that abercrombie and undue hardship. primarily the court has defined that as anything more than a mere trivial expense and has been pretty lenient in permitting employers to have their dress codes. >> do you think this is going to be an uphill battle? >> and what to say -- >> ten seconds. >> the courts also required them to look at the particular individual's request for reasonable accommodation. and thus allowing them to where a job would not -- >> i've got to hand it there. i'm flat out of time. we're take yuing your calls and we're back after this. ppp

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tonight a. famous father's desperate fight to keep his son alive. superstar in the bahamas, and in vivid detail and rushed his son to the hospital. two people are accused of trying to extort $2500 million during his darkest hour. will his testimony be enough and there was also thrown in a pond.

all of this according to an alleged family friend. polygraph tests in the past but is this new evidence credible? also, a bizarre twist in the jaycee dugard case. could he provide new insight into her life and captivity? >> after mcken zee phillips and she and her father, the lead singer of the mom and pops had an affair. now she said that she had an abortion because she wasn't sure if the baby belonged to her dad. so who is telling the truth here and why did she wait this long to write her tell-all book? issues starts right now. tonight, john travolta bears his

soul and make as shocking admission all under oath. the star witness testifying against two alleged low-life extortion nifts in the bahamas. prosecutors say a former senator, senator of the bahamas and a paramedic tried to squeeze 25 million bucks from the superstar's tragic death. jett, who has always been the subject of a heated debate, died of a seize zur. john came right out and said it, yes, my son was autistic, end quote. the first public revelation included tearful testimony about watching his son die before his eyes. i saw him on the bathroom floor. we continued cpr and my wife was holding his head. in another shocking report, secret police video exposing the alleged extortion plot just

weeks after the death shows the paramedic and one of travolta's representatives facing off. the black male team that he would face millions for a so-called refusal to transport out of the public eye. here is how it apparently went down. travolta said, you know, what we're doing is a criminal offense. the paramedics said, yes. the rep for travolta said, if we get caught, we're both in trouble. it would stand to reason, travolta had a secret camera rolling taking down every word. when was this conspiracy hatched any way? paramedic life born seen here on tmz talked to good morning america soon after jett's death before we knew anything at all.

>> tell him i loved him and tell him i did everything i could. i saw love in his life. he turned to me, gave me a hug, and said, you guys did a wonderful job. see what happens. did the tragedy from the all of extortion drama send him out of denial about the autism? i want to hear from you about that straight out to my fantastic jayne wine traub and former nypd detective and investigative group. dr. corrine, psych kite trift, director of beverly hills and ucla. boy, everybody has a lot of titles tonight. russell, attorney and pop culture expert with pop squir.com. first, the one and only jean ka

sar resident with "in session." tell us about the secret videotape that cops say actually caught black mailers right in the act. >> you can imagine, jane, to have a videotape inside a trial, a prosecution of this nature. this is huge for the prosecution and the defense is trying to get it suppressed. but here's what it is. you've got that former senator/attorney actually negotiating with john travolta's representative, and, you're right, john travolta's representative is one that is consenting to all of this, that is a party to it. so criminal activity can be documented and then negotiating a sum a. sum that the paramedic wants to keep this document undisclosed from the public. not only do we hear amounts bantered back and forth but thl is a crime. the knowledge of criminal nalt is a law and the end all to this is, this is critical knowledge.

>> i have to ask, if they've got it all on tape? and and the conversation what exactly was said and, number two, words are taken out of context. in other words, we don't have the videotape the entire transcript. we don't know what we're looking at. >> guess what, i've got some of the transcript and i'm going to read it to you right now. radar online and check this out, travolta's rep says, quote, we're willing to pay for the document. the former senator, are that's

right right a. senator, saying, quote, he said 25 million as in dollar, travolta's rep, if he's willing to negotiate, we can make him a wealthy man. i'm buying his stylist. the document in question is the refusal to transport paper. he says i signed it in the heat of the moment because he wanted to go to the airport and fly his sons back to the state. but what doesn't make sense is that this entire case, refusal transport is a big who cares? like publishing it in the front of the new york times and nobody would care at all. now, i've got to say, you're the

cultural expert. i have to call these the paramedics from hell. travolta said it took 25 to 40 minute are fos are ambulance to arrive and then they said, we're going to stop and switch ambulances and they moved this poor kid out of one plans and put them in another ambulance and then let the journ continue again and then, after all of this, they have the audacity, one of them, allegedly, to black mail the star. >> jane, would you think that the power of celebrity would be a good resource and they didn't stay with michael jackson. so it is john travolta and we were talking before y. are they testifying when there is video? if you can have a celebrity presence in the courtroom, you can make all of the difference. unfortunately it did not make a

difference except that it brought extortion about. is it helping him heal or reopening the wound? >> it's absolutely reopening the wound. this is ridiculous. the morning of a son, of an offspring is an intense grieving process. and, you know, we're looking here at a seize zur disorder which, in this case, seems to be 42% of the time linked to autism. it does happen and, you know, in this case the son needed to be taken to the hospital. at a very quick pace in order to see where the activity actually is occurring in the brain. this is a very, very sad case and it's going to make it much, much harder for mr. travolta to deal with this stuff. >> and we're going to talk in a moment when we come back from the break about tonight's big issue, namely, did the tragedy of jett's death and the pressure

from this all of extortion brought up, snap john travolta out of denial about his son's autism? we're going to talk about that in a second because that is a subject on everybody's mind, a more -- and more on all of this in just a moment. we're also taking your calls. 1-877-567-2957. coming up, a man claiming to be jaycee's dad? and the man who once called john a friend is profiting from his son's death? >> john travolta knew that his son was a special child and he ú nurtured the relationship and gave him love, demonstrated publicly at all times.

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he has to be here. >> why does he have to be here? >> because the prosecution cannot get off the ground. >> that is a former senator bridgewater's attorney talking

about john travolta's appearance as a star witness in this case. tonight's big issue. does the tragedy of jett's death and the pressure of the all of extortion drama snap him out of denial about his son's autism? here's a devoted dad talking to his son in 2001. >> i probably cried harder and heavier than i've ever cried in my life. i didn't know what i was going to do. >> i can handle death and people dying, but that's my baby. >> our heart goes out to him, obviously. john's brother joey has long been an advocate for people with autism. he's ran a film camp for autistic kids. but until now john travolta has reportedly insisted that jet was

not autistic. there was talk of a rare disease called kwasaki syndrome. what finally caused him to admit it? you're not only a psych kite trift b psychiatrist but a doctor of medicine. >> yeah, i'm not going to get into exactly why he didn't talk about autism in the first place. but i can say that a lot of parents are in denial about their son's medical illness. a lot of people don't want to see it. but the reality is, look, what is autism? it's a brain order disorder, impaired communication and a lot of kids do things in various ways and a lot of times you don't want to mention it. why would you want to see what is going on with your son?

>> well known scientologists, and their beliefs and their practices have been the subject of some kobt verse see, especial controversy. a former psychologist interviewed for the show. listen to this. >> the only reason a person can get ill is because they are some way related to a suppress sif person and that's someone that is mainly someone opposed to scientology. it's really a big deal. how the travoltas dealt with this, a chronic illness in the family, i'm not sure how they would have been able to explain it. >> look, i'm a big believer in religious beliefs and we sort of try to keep this under wrap. did he keep this at a risk for submix or see justice done? trump his religious beliefs at

the end of the day? >> i think they hit it on the head right there. there were also privacy concerns up until this point. when you're on the stand, even in the bahama, you are sworn to have to tell the truth. the question was asked and he responded and the answer. remember, he didn't have to testify. so he didn't have to go to this prosecution. >> lea, your question or answer. >> caller: our daughter is also autistic and suffers from seizures. this child has taught us so very much about love and has added so very much to our lives. i can't tell you how hurtful it is that they lost someone so special in their lives. but these children work so hard for every little thing that they achieve and celebrate everything

that they can possibly accomplish. >> may i ask you a question, ma'am? did you ever have any concerns about revealing that your child was youought sis stick? >> her father d i was very fearful that she would fall down in school and eventually i lust co custody because i wanted to home school her. it's very complicated. and i also wanted to thank you for standing out anded aing that it's not the bizarre homeless person but many, many. and this whole business with mcken zee phillips has shined a great deal on my own personal problems. >> well, i wish you the very best, ma'am. we'll talk about her coming up later in the show. hang in there and watch because we've got interesting information. i thought that caller, jean ka sar resident, was absolutely on the nose that these children are

so wonderful and they are really gifted in so many other ways that an average child is. why not celebrate that from the get-go? why keep it under wraps? >> i think it has to do with the religion, as you said, and i thits a personal decision. remember, he was still basically a little boy and maybe the family had just not made the decision yet to go forward and and they have incredible talents and they are not seen or able to be expressed which is why it's so important that children are being trained, supervised, educated to express their talent, their specific talents that are not necessarily dait day to day talents that the average dai kid has. >> i've got to say this, jean ka s sarress hit the name on the head

when she said, i want to say how much john travolta should be applauded for voluntarily going to the bahamas, another count try and not to be exploited or have their family's privacy exploited. i think what happens to you is rep prehenceable if, in fact, the charges are true. >> jonathan, final words? >> i applaud him for being autism to the forefront and i applaud him for doing it. i think it will help the parents of the autism children and not hide it. >> yeah, okay. russell, five seconds. >> he had all of these years to bring life to it like jenny mccarthy has.

this could have been a moment of all of these years and it's important and he never did that. >> got to leave it right there. people -- yes, but people get to where they get to when they get it. in the jaycee dugard case, who is claiming to be her father. @%

tonight, the hail lee cummings and a copy of a letter and little haleigh and a wild party the very night she disand peered. it appears that a friend of misty wrote from jail. quote, haleigh got a copy and died. we took her to a pod and the author of the letter said, she's just paraphrasing. a theory police got from somebody else. the writer of the letter essentially claimings the whole story is a big lie.

and for the question they didn't find any evidence. in the meantime, just learned that a nationwide warrant has been issued this is just unbelievable. seems like everybody in this case is in trouble with the law. let's talk about this letter. it's all part of cops putting the squeeze on misty to finally come clean. >> i don't understand why they couldn't see why the father was calling the house 20 times and everybody knew that she was there but the question is where was she and with whom? the party theory is in quite contrast with what misty claims happened that very night.

listen to what she said. >> i put her to bed. and then at 8:00 i woke up and she was gone. and that's the last time i seen her, was in bed. >> where ya'll in the same bed? >> no, she was in her bed in front of the tv. >> wow, she's lying there. she deserves some kind of an acting award. that's quite a performance is ts oxycontin there or not? >> if she died at a party, wouldn't it have come out

already? ? a party. these people in jail that write letters to police wanting to get a benefit, and that's all there is. and they are striking up controversy and i don't believe it, but based on the letter at all. >> but it certainly varies a something had to happen. >> they searched the pond. >> there's a lot of ponds so who knows. >> and the letter and ip don't think i you know what the person is in jail for. what is she looking for? how long has she been in custody? what does she know and why is she talking now? >> i have to say this. i think everybody is using misty as a pawn. to put it on little ole misty. up next, is the man saying

that he's jaycee dugard's dad telling the truth? b. ask your doctor about trilipix. if you're at high risk of heart disease and taking a statin to lower bad cholesterol, along with diet, adding trilipix can lower fatty triglycerides and raise good cholesterol to help improve all three cholesterol numbers. trilipix has not been shown to prevent heart attacks or stroke more than a statin alone. trilipix is not for everyone, including people with liver, gallbladder, or severe kidney disease, or nursing women. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you are pregnant or may become pregnant. blood tests are needed before and during treatment to check for liver problems. contact your doctor if you develop unexplained muscle pain or weakness, as this can be a sign of a rare but serious side effect. this risk may be increased when trilipix is used with a statin. if you cannot afford your medication, call 1-866-4-trilipix for more information. trilipix. there's more to cholesterol. get the picture.

is r just one day after mcken zee phillips spilled her guts on oprah, her stepdad is firing back. calling the former stepdad a liar. she claims that she had an abortion because she wasn't sure if the baby belonged to her father with whom she insists she had an incestuous affair. who is telling the truth here?

tonight, another emotional jolt to jaycee's new life, just weeks after being released from 18 long years of captivity. a 60-year-old man claims that he was the father. >> she suffered greatly and we are reunited. however, we are reaching out today and hoping and praying that she will hear us and take the first step in helping confirm that she is my daughter. >> he claims that she and jaycee's mom had a brief relationship in 1989 and then disappeared and no one in the dugard ma'amly has responded to the maternity claims. why go public at this very

sensitive time for jaycee? they haven't heard from him privately. why not? he could barely get through the statement. he was so emotional. but think of how emotional the bombshell was for jaycee. we're also learning that jaycee plans to testify against her alleged rapist and capture phillip ga read doe. is she finally coming to grips with the death. and a new law enforcement incompetence shocker. reports that phillip garrido didn't register as a sex offender in california until 1999 even though he was convicted of rape and kidnap in 1977. yp wasn why wasn't this glaring omission caught? doctor, is it a loving thing to do to drop a bombshell like this on jaycee dugard telling her, hey, i'm your dad, when shooes

dealing with enough trauma of several lifetimes already? >> how much more trouble can this girl endure? this is all about reality testing and about reintegrating into society. she had society al deprivation. so trust, getting back into society, learning how to live a life and get past all of the emotional trauma that is going to take a ton of therapy to do is all standing in front of her and now you get this whole thing and it's going to confuse us. can you imagine what it's doing to her? i mean, this is absolutely confusing and it absolutely will stand in the way of good therapeutic work that she's probably going to endure. >> you have to ask what is next for this poor girl. go ahead, jean. >> i mean, this is just so absurd. this guy can't be a father. he might be or have her blood in him but i can tell you something, jane, no father, as you were saying, would put on their daughter right now any more stress or any more

emotional drama than they have to go through. and i'll tell you something, this sa guy that absolutely absconded responsibility and didn't have anything to do with it. >> we weren't there way back in 1979. we didn't know what happened. and, you know, these kinds of things happened all the time. we don't need to demonize him and we have to question his timing. isn't that the theme of the "issues" show? clayton, who i'm a big fan of, gloria allred said that if he refuses to take a paternity test to prove his theory. >> she's 29 years old. we're not talking about a child. >> let's listen to this for a second. >> even though my friend indicated that susan didn't want me in her life, did i make an effort to contact her but was not successful.

i've had main r many nightmares over the years wondering if i could do more to help susan and the baby. >> so, look, i'm not a scientist but it seems obvious to determine whether he's really the daddy, he'd needed it cooperation of jaycee or the children. would it be wise to cooperate at this juncture or to take legal action against me? >> what's the purpose? if i was representing the do you go guard family, i would say no. you know, why do you want to come into my life so you can write a book or something? i don't understand it and i don't understand why he's coming out at this point in time. it seems like too little too late z all right. let's talk about another issue. jaycee is prepared to help put her alleged kidnapper behind bars. her attorney says yes she will testify at the trial. here's what he told the cbc early show. >> she very clearly understands that very bad and terrible things were done to her and the people that committed those

crimes need to be held accountable. >> this is amazing. i mean, she was obviously traumatized originally. she was sort of almost defending garrido saying that she hadn't been touched in years by him et cetera, et cetera. now it seems like the brainwashing is wearing off and she's coming to terms with the hour row that was inflicted on her and getting angry, we hope. doctor? >> yep. the -- some people are talking about stockhole m syndrome here. it's essentially where you start bonding with your captures. you idealize your captures because they are taking care of you. it ends up with having a perceived threat that they might hurt you. a perceived sense of lack of is sk escape in a situation and random acts of kindness. so you're in this bubble where your sense of survival is -- >> it's rubbing off now.

>> exactly. >> so you get yourself out of that situation and slowly with therapy, with help, with rep integration, we reality, with the troops, you slowly, slowly get out of that mental state. this is a sign of that. >> it appears, this is mercury news, he didn't file as a sex offender in california until 1999, despite his 1977 convictions for kidnapping and rape. can you believe it? >> i think that's where the problem is. in the '70s, i don't think that there was a law that wasn't in place in florida at that time. so i'm sure it wasn't a matter of falling through the cracks at that point. >> i'm not just talking about the '70s. they've had that house since 19991. at least in 1991 somebody should have done some kind of calculation to see there's a registered sex offender there and let's register him in

california's registry. maybe when those kids disappeared. or after those kids disappeared. >> it is a one -- it's a domino affect from the probation department through corrections in california. but the registration issue, it's a whole other bag of worms. >> yeah, whatever. >> it's just one more piece of incompetence in this mess. physically and in other ways. up next, the convicted killer, mental patient on the run for three days tell us now on camera why it was just another adventure in his life. then, the daughter of a legend said she had sexual relationships with her dad. you do not want to miss her bone chilling story. it gets stranger and stranger. we're taking your calls on this incest story. 1-877-5867297. in the meantime, we have a very exciting addition to our primetime line up coming your way next week.

the joy behar show. here's just a little taste of what you'll be getting. the moment of joy commentary. >> this week we've got the season premier of dancing with the stars. right from the start it was fabulous. nancy gray, michael irvin, even marie osmond returned to the scene of the crime to support her brother donny. the man is everywhere. he's like smog. my favorite contestant this year is tom delay. the former house majority leader who soon may be dancing behind bars. he was wearing a tiny vest with glitter. at the beginning of this show he seemed uncomfortable sitting there with all of the russian immigrants with gay men. am i the only one here under federal indictment? look on his face. once the competition started, he listened right up.

i don't think republicans had that much fun tapping their toes until the minneapolis airport. i thought tom danced okay even if the judges were a little rough. wait until he gets up in front of a real judge. i hope that tom sticks around all size son. i just can't wait until then.

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sna a state killer and county last week, and killing a woman and and she decided to and it's for you. what about the woman you killed? and the people at the county fair terrified by your little stud. look at it there. captured three days later, the

escape of a very embarrassed hospital ceo. good. and that is tonight. that's the top of the block. and she had oprah and racing time and your father and protecting and essential sexual relationship. she told oprah na and reality i

had an apportion. and i never let him touch me again. and in their arm and is this the truth? and she's sober right now and she says she's sober. i don't think she would make this up. and "us weekly," the specialist i think you nailed it. >> i'm impressed with your

insight. >> thank you. >> that was my question. the first time i heard this, that was okay, she has got to hit -- addition is a chronic relaptsing illness and the constant battle in an addict is if you've got your brain and frontal lobe of your brain and deeper inside area, your frontal lobe says, what's right, what's wrong? let's sole have the problem and figure stuff out, and your olympic side says, give me drugs, give me drugs, you have this constant battle. and you're not sober and you're not really in recovery, you're saying, get me drugs, get me anything. ulg lie, cheat, steal, say whatever you need to say. and your frontal lobe battles that all of the time. if she's not totally sober f. she's still going through all of this stuff, any of the stuff could be made up. it should be over and it should be fine. >> well, listen f. she's sober, it's only about a year because it was just over a year ago

because she was arrested and editor of "us weekly" possession of heroin. >> the family is absolutely did i divided. she completely believes her because why would anyone make this up and call her and, you know, this was something that she revealed to certain family members way earlier. i'm hearing from inside sources now that remaining silent doesn't believe her. michelle phillips said that she doesn't believe her. so everyone is pretty divided because she has had this rocky road and she is on and off all the time, just as the doctor said. >> as she just said, it polarizes her extended family. she told a hollywood reporter that it happened a while back and then said, oh, i was just joking but she says, i do

believe her and oprah she was her dad only victim. listen to this. >> i know for fact that i'm the only daughter that this happened to and i don't know why he chose me to visit his demons upon me. i don't know that. i wish that he were here still alive. >> would you tell the story if you were alive? >> that i don't know about. probably. >> china mackenzie will now appear together on oprah's show tomorrow. as a pop culture expert, are you watching this train wreck with horror? this is a family being torn apart and spilling on television what i think personally could be dealt with in a group family therapy session. >> well, i'm definitely watching. and mackenzie better know her history.

when she told a big lie about her book, she better be telling the truth because oprah would not be having it. >> absolutely. we all remember how furious she was duped in that instance that you've just mentioned. >> yeah, and i'm really glad -- >> so here's the problem. here's the problem, you can't tell whether she's telling the truth because the man she's talking about has been dead for eight long years and has a song once said nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. let's leave it right there for a moment. when we come back we're going to talk about this some more. you know, mackenzie phillips talks about her doctor's well-documented drug abuse. often inherit their parent's addiction. does have to be that way. this is national recovery month. a great time to get sober. in my new book "iwant" i talk about my own father's alcoholism and how it influenced me to drink excessively. i finally got sober more than 14 years ago. you can order my recovery memoir

out now in bookstores. just click on cnn.com/skran. look for the order section. if you're struggling with booze or drugs, my story can help you and we'll be back with the mackenzie phillips bombshell in just a moment. ever worn your clothes in the shower?

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i went to my father, and i said, look, we need to talk about how you raped me. and my dad said, "rape you? don't you mean when we made love?" and in that moment i thought, who i'm really on my own here. >> mackenzie phillips on "the oprah winfrey show." by the way at about 5:00 i want on amazon.com, high on arrival, mackenzie's book, anybody want to take a guess where it is on the amazon best-seller list? any guesses? >> number one. >> number three.

that's pretty high up. ian, do you think this would be playing out any differently if john phillips were alive? >> who knows. i mean it depends on where their relationship was at this point and where he was. i mean he was a full-blown addict, as we know too. so if he was really under the influence, he might have actually enjoyed this. highhe might have liked it from the relationship that she describes it, i wouldn't be surprised by that. >> well, i do think drugs is at the heart of this whole story. because when somebody does drugs, they become capable of incomprehensible things, so we're more likely to believe a claim like this because we all know that he had a serious drug problem. mackenzie's book "high on arrival" doesn't just talk about sex with dad, she made more revelations about his drug use. listen to this. >> i was probably 16 or 17. and my father shot me up for the first time. >> yeah. >> and i remember going into my

room. and so i was sort of crouched on the floor. i was trying to -- >> you said tie me off, or something like that. >> yeah here, tied me off. >> dr. reef karim, we all hear in rover such horrifying stories but this one is right up there. >> oh, yeah, this is awful. i mean, if this is true, dad is functioning as a role model of how to be an addict. functioning as an enabler, and functioning as the dealer. and functioning as someone who's taking advantage of her. i mean, come on. this is -- this is crazy. and it just shows you how -- how deep and how bad addiction can penetrate a family and an individual's life and how it can totally take somebody down. >> and you know, russell -- >> this is really sad. >> -- what kills me is i love "the mamas and the papas." i love listening to their music and i'll never be able to listen to it the same way again. i will always think of this story. >> yeah. that's the problem here. i mean, he's not alive to defend

himself and you absolutely will connect him and his music with this situation. but here's the thing, jane, given the loose household and the loose nature of all of the stuff that was going oi find that hard to believe that there aren't some witnesses, there aren't some people out there thinking, back this story up, at least many aspects of this. because i don't think the two people on drugs like they were for many years were able to keep this such a secret. >> well, i mean, ian drew -- >> yeah. >> -- come on, we know in hollywood, the strangest things happen and we know so many stories that we can't report because we just don't have that final verification, but we know it's true. >> well, we have one witness who's alive, mick jagger. she talks about that in the book, how he was there, he was part of this whole group with her and seduced her and want dod since 10 years old. where is jagger? >> has he talked? >> he's not talked yet but this just came out, remember, two days ago. >> let me tell you, don't mess with mick jagger. >> exactly. >> because he could come out in

a big way slamming the hammer down on mackenzie. thank you, fabulous panel. >> watch out. >> you're watching "issues." pniu