right now on "showbiz tonight," the explosive mackenzie phillips incest debate. today's overwhelming reaction to mackenzie claiming her father had sex with her. mackenzie back on tv this morning, revealing even more. >> the sound bite has been a ten-year-long romantic affair with her -- that is the wrong way to characterize it. >> tonight, why members of mackenzie's own family called her a liar today and why even oprah is under attack.

tonight, "showbiz tonight" with the provocative debate. should mackenzie have kept quiet? tonight, the great cougar debate. courteney cox's new show "cougar town" debuted last night and has got men and women arguing everywhere today. why do older women get slammed for dating younger men, but younger men are considered cool for dating older women? what's up with that? plus, john travolta's agony. forced to relive in public every moment of the terrible day he watched his beloved son die before his very eyes. travolta's emotional, heartbreaking words. tv's most provocative entertainment news show starts right now. hello. i'm a.j. hammer broadcasting tonight and every night from new york city. and tonight, the mackenzie phillips incest outrage. mackenzie phillips back on live tv, just this morning, just one

day after her shocking claims an "oprah" that she had a sexual relationship with her famous father for some ten years. but tonight, some members of her own family are saying flat-out they don't believe her. they don't believe it ever happened. and even oprah was being slammed today for having mackenzie on her show in the first place. well, "showbiz tonight" has been on top of every new breaking development today in this very disturbing story, which all made for big news breaking. >> i need to be free. and if in doing so i have offended anybody, i am truly sorry. >> reporter: mackenzie phillips went on the "today" show this morning to address the uproar from the day before. that she and her father had a sexual relationship for some ten years. >> your father is supposed to protect you, not [ muted ] you. >> reporter: "showbiz tonight" can tell you mackenzie phillips' graphic details of incestuous sex and heavy drug use provoked

an explosive reaction today, including from her famous stepmother, singer michelle phillips, and her famous sister, singer chynna phillips. >> it sounds like right now there's definitely some strife in the family. >> reporter: mackenzie's father was a member of the popular mammas and the papas. john phillips died in 2001. mackenzie's claims on "opera" are from her new book that just came out. mackenzie claims her father first had sex with her after a drug-induced blackout back when she was a teen starting on the 1970s sitcom "one day at a time." >> i woke up that night from a blackout to find myself having sex with my own father. >> reporter: mckenzie says that led to a consensual sexual relationship. but this morning on the "today" show, he disputed headlines online and in newspapers today

calling it a ten-year affair. >> people say for ten years i had this relationship. at 18 i was molested. then maybe three years later, i started waking up with my pants down around my ankles. and then maybe two years after that, it became consensual. so to call it a ten-year affair or a ten-year relationship is not correct. >> reporter: now "showbiz tonight" can tell you the phillips family is bitterly divided over mackenzie's claims. we learned today that her stepmother, michelle phillips, who was also in the mammas and the papas is saying flat-out that mackenzie is lying. >> we spoke to michelle phillips who says she does not believe mackenzie. >> she brings up mackenzie's long, well-known history of drug abuse. she says, you should take with a grain of salt anything that's said by a person who has had a needle stuck in her arm for the past 35 years. the whole story is disgusting. >> so her stepmother comes out

and publicly bashes her and slams her. that's got to really sting. >> reporter: but on the other side, mackenzie's sister, chynna phillips, one-third of the early '90s singing group, wilson phillips. >> chynna, who "us" magazine explosively spoke to, is standing by her sister. >> reporter: in chynna's shocking interview with the magazine, she revealed that she's known maackenzie's shockig incest secret for more than a decade. >> chynna says she wasn't very comfortable with mackenzie doing the book. she does support her. she is behind her. she loves her. >> reporter: this morning on the "today" show, mackenzie phillips said the reaction from her family is all too typical. >> if you open a textbook on the incest and you can see a picture of the phillips family. we are behaving in a typical

way. you know, the instinct is to say it's not true. the instinct is to deny. the instinct is to brush it under the table. the instinct is to protect the abuser. >> reporter: but mackenzie still has hope that this revelation won't tear her family apart. >> i know that god willing as a family, we will be stronger when this all dies down. >> wow. and there's more. in a brand-new interview on the "today" show this morning, mackenzie revealed yet another bombshell. joining me tonight from hollywood, leslie marshall, host of the leslie marshall radio show, and also in hollywood, pat lalama, an investigative journalist. and just when we thought we had heard everything from mackenzie on "oprah" yesterday, this morning on the "today" show, mackenzie didn't blame her father, she actually partially blamed herself for the consensual sexual relationship with him. >> this was a warped event that occurred over time. and what it started out as, which was an act of molestation and what it became were two

entirely different things. one i believe i have no accountability for. the initial event. i believe that i have some accountability for what went down afterwards. >> i'm not sure what to make of that. mackenzie actually taking responsibility for what she says happened. pat, do you think she bares any responsibility, if this did actually happen? >> if she's listening, i want her to go to a therapist's office right now. she's not responsible if what she's alleging is in fact true. her father may not have put a gun to her head, but as i said the other day on your show, there is no consensual incest. she was under the spell of a man mired in drug and alcohol abuse, swimming in a domestic cesspool. she is not responsible for what happened. i completely disagree with her, if what she's saying is true. >> it seems that way, pat. and i can tell you, this is pretty amazing to me, there is growing evidence that the interest in mackenzie's story is really exploding here. take a look at this. put that up, charles. this afternoon, her new book

called "high on arrival" hit number three on amazon's best seller list. now, to put that in perspective, not far behind -- it's not far behind number one, which is the dan brown book, "the lost symbol," and he is the guy that wrote "the da vinci code." a perfect example of how mackenzie's story is striking a chord with so many people. why do you think that is? >> because i think there are a lot of people in this country, unfortunately, that suffer from this secret. and they feel, i'm not alone, they feel they can relate to her. they can read through her nightmare and maybe not have to revisit and relive their own. statistically, one in four people in america was molested as a child. now, whether that was an incestuous relationship or not, we have high numbers of people that have been affected by incest in this country, by molestation, and these people feel, somebody's finally speaking for me. and mackenzie has become their

voice. >> but not to diminish that at all, leslie, it's hard for me to believe that that is the sole reason a book would climb so high to number three. pat, tell me what you think here. because she also makes claims of her father shooting her up with drugs, her father teaching her how to roll joints and all the drugs they did together and plus the incest claims. do you think there's a bit of the train wreck factor too that has to be driving this thing? >> of course. and of course mackenzie knew this when she wrote the book. this is a domestic land mine, it's shocking, and we can't look away. there is -- i hate to use the terminology, but there's a certain sleaze factor to it. but if it can be cathartic for her and millions of other people, i'm all for it. and too bad if her family doesn't like it. because you know what, i think we can learn more from her than jon gosselin's tramp of the month and the fact that he's now left eight children in the dust. >> i don't often give a big amen, but i'll give you one for that. and not just people that may be

buying mackenzie's book that are connecting with what she went through. in her interview on the "today" show this morning, mackenzie also revealed she's been getting overwhelming support elsewhere since she told her story on "oprah." see this. >> since the publication of this book yesterday, the outpouring of support from other incest survivors has been phenomenal. this is a subject that is so incredibly taboo, and as well it should be. but there needs to be a dialogue about it. the covers need to be pulled. you can't keep sweeping this under the carpet. this is affecting families all over the world. >> and that would be a good side effect of this, but that said, leslie, quickly, do you think that more people will be disturbed by mackenzie making these claims than those who will be helped by them? >> i know from the tweets and the facebook e-mail messages and my talk show, a lot of people are very uncomfortable with her putting it out on oprah and not a psychiatrist couch. a lot of people were saying tmi, but now when they see how many people that are coming out and

saying, hey, this is helping me, i think a lot of people are feeling mixed. >> and a brand-new development in the story. oprah winfrey under fire for doing this interview with mackenzie phillips in the first place. >> you're very much aware that this is wrong, that this is -- this should not be happening. >> yes. >> but yet it continues to happen. >> yes. >> so why is oprah getting slammed for helping mackenzie tell this story? i'm not sure it is justified. and do people really need to cut mackenzie a break here? leslie marshall, pat lalama, i appreciate you being here. we'll get into that a bit later in the show. and now we'd like to hear from you. it's our "showbiz tonight" question of the day. sound off on this. mackenzie phillips criticized. was it okay for her to go public with her incest claims? go to cnn.com/showbiztonight. e-mail showbiztonight@cnn.com. we'll be going now to john travolta's heartbreak. john travolta takes the stand and he's forced to relive the agonizing memory of the day that his son died before his eyes as

he desperately tried to save his life. tonight, his emotional testimony will leave you in tears. also, the great cougar debate. courteney cox's new show "cougar town" igniting a furious debate. this is "showbiz tonight" on hln. time now for the "showbiz news ticker," more tickers from the "showbiz tonight" newsroom making news right now. join yoplait in supporting the fight against breast cancer. with your help... ...yoplait will donate 10 cents for every pink lid sent in. help us win. we've been fighting the war against breast cancer... ...for over 10 years at yourlidmatters.com.

welcome back to "showbiz tonight." i'm a.j. hammer in new york. tonight, travolta's agony. john travolta was expected to testify again today in an extortion trial taking place in the bahamas that's been put off until next week. during his first day of testimony, travolta had to re-live the horrific details of the day his son, jett, died. in a powerful moment, travolta

said that his son was autistic and would have seizures every five to ten days. travolta said he tried to revive his son using cpr while his wife, kelly preston, held his head. why did two people in the bahamas allegedly think they could extort $25 million from this famous hollywood couple? well, this case revolves around one piece of paper. here now is cnn's randi kaye for "showbiz tonight." >> reporter: it's called a refusal to transport, a piece of paper that family members must sign to refuse transport for medical services. a paramedic says john travolta signed that form and tried to stop the ambulance from taking his dying son, jett, to the hospital in the bahamas so he could be flown to florida. that sheet of paper is now at the center of a celebrity drama being played out on a island paradise. lightborn is one of the prime

suspects accused of trying to extort nearly $25 million from tra rovolta and his wife, kelly preston, in the days following their son's death. if he did not pay up, they said they would make the form public. lightborn and former baa bahamian senator bridge water have pled not guilty. she says there's no evidence of her involvement to commit an offense against mr. john travolta. lightborn's lawyer did not return our calls. travolta first to testify in the bahamian court told the court, i received a liability of release document, i signed it, i did not read it, time was of the essence and travolta had his own plane waiting. >> john initially felt he could fly him to miami faster than he could drive him there by

ambulance. >> reporter: bahamian authority said lightborn was at his side as he watched the massive seizure take his son's life. he publicized his most personal moment, telling tabloids how the actor cried and prayed as he fought to save his son. >> somebody who was with john travolta, trying to save jett, and then tried to extort money from a grieving father, it is almost beyond belief. >> reporter: was the alleged plan hatched during a dying boy's final hours? if so, levin calls that the ultimate betrayal. >> just so despicable. that was cnn's randi kaye for "showbiz tonight." right now the extortion trial is expected to last three weeks. i must tell you, the showbiz on call phone lines have been inundated. a lot of people calling in about mackenzie phillips' shocking claims that her father had sex with her. con swayla in texas says, we need to go easy on mackenzie, because it can't be easy talking

about her painful past. >> i believe that she's trying to heal and her purging on national tv and through the book is a way for her to heal. she's trying to protect her abusers, even mick jagger. i think that people need to be sympathetic, because i think her life has been very traumatic. >> thank you so much, con swayla. we heard from michelle calling in there texas. michelle says that mackenzie will probably help a lot of people. >> caller: i applaud her for bringing this out, sharing it with the public. i know it must have been very difficult for her. and i know she's been damaged by it. but maybe this will help other people in the same situation. god bless you, mackenzie. >> i appreciate your call, michelle. why don't you call us at showbiz on call to let us know exactly what's on your mind. the showbiz on call phone lines are open all the time. this is the number, 1-888-sbt-buzz, 1-888-728-2899,

that's where you can leave us a voice mail. also, your calls to showbiz on call are online, cnn.com/showbiztonight. and today oprah winfrey is on fire for putting mackenzie on her show. >> i don't recall, in 24 years, having anybody ever come on and say, i had a consensual sexual relationship with my father. >> mackenzie was back on tv today, talking about her painful family secrets. and we just learned today that she's going to be on oprah again tomorrow. so why is oprah getting criticized for putting her on the show in the first place? also, it's the great cougar debate. courteney cox's new show, "cougar town," has everybody talking today. why are women criticized for dating younger men, but older men don't get slammed as much for dating younger women? is there a huge double standard here? we will also have this. ♪ beyonce certainly proves you just can't help grooving to her

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tonight." i'm a.j. hammer. guess what i did last night? i was at the plaza hotel here in new york city. it was a big, swanky party and that's me with joy behar. we were celebrating her new show that debuts right here on hln next week. i was hanging out with barbara with whoopi, larry king, a lot of big stars coming out to wish joy look. >> joy, good luck with the show. i think you're going to be great. i know you're going to be great and i know you're going to have a big audience, because i'm going to be watching, and i'm very big lately. >> joy, i'm being forced to do this because they don't think i actually know you, so kick everybody's you know what when you're doing your show, because you know you're going to be good

at it. >> joy, of course i wish you luck. just don't even think about leaving "the view". >> it's like the joy luck club. tune into the premiere of the joy behar show tuesday september 29th at 9:00 p.m. here on hln. and who do you think is the most provocative celebrity of the week? starting friday night and every friday night, tv's most provocative show is daring to ask, who do you think is the most provocative celebrity of the week? call us at showbiz on call, 1-888-sbt-buzz or leave us a message on our facebook fan page. go to facebook and type "showbiz tonight" in the search box. and if you go to the "showbiz tonight" facebook page, you will see, it has been inundated from comments about people who are sounding off about mackenzie phillips' shocking claims that

her father had sex with her. a ton of comments are coming in about whether it was appropriate for mackenzie to go public with such a shocking family secret. tamla n. writes, "when people are on drugs, they will cross boundaries they would not otherwise cross. praise to mackenzie for telling her story and what can occur while in the grasp of addiction." janet c., "i'm not listening to it. there are some secrets she needs to keep. can't help thinking that she just wants attention." love to hear you on facebook and you can follow us on twitter. sign up for our facebook and twitter pages on on cnn.com/showbiztonight. this is what's coming up on the bottom of the hour on "showbiz tonight." we have brand-new revelations from mackenzie phillips. mackenzie back on tv today. and oprah around fire for putting her on her show. cougar debates.

everybody's talking about courteney cox's new show "cougar town." why is it that women are criticized for dating younger men? and elisabeth hasselbeck talks about how her baby is doing today after a health scare. this is "showbiz tonight" on hln. time now for the showbiz news ticker. these are more stories from the "showbiz tonight" newsroom, making news right now. you something about can tel

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i don't recall, in 24 years, having anybody ever come on and say, i had a consensual sexual relationship with my father. >> now on "showbiz tonight," oprah winfrey under fire. shocking new revelations today from mackenzie phillips. mackenzie goes on tv again today while oprah is under fire for putting her on the show in the first place. cougar alert. courteney cox's new show "cougar town" debuted last night and ignited a furious debate today. why are older women criticized for dating younger men, but men don't get slammed like that? tonight, the great cougar debate. ♪

and if you needed anymore proof that beyonce's video gets everyone grooving, you have got to stick around to see this adorable video. plus, more stories breaking from the "showbiz news ticker," tv's most provocative entertainment news show continues right now. welcome back to "showbiz tonight." it is 30 minutes past the hour. i'm a.j. hammer, broadcasting tonight and every night from new york city. and tonight, we have the incredible fallout today after mackenzie phillips' remarkable claims about having sex with her father. mackenzie spoke out again today after her family just slams her, which ignited an all-out family feud. here are today's breaking developments. mackenzie's stepmother, michelle phillips, calls mackenzie a liar for claiming she was in a sexual

relationship with her dad. you have got to hear how nasty this got today. and that led to the fired up great debate today. even if mackenzie made this story up about incest, could the dramatic attention it is bringing to incest victims actually do some good? mackenzie first made her incredible claims on "oprah" and today oprah came under attack for letting mackenzie tell her story on her show. joining me tonight in hollywood, leslie marshall, a talk radio host for the leslie marshall show, and also joining me is jane velez-mitchell, host of "issues with jane velez-mitchel velez-mitchell", and she is also the author of this book, "i want." so a major family feud erupted just after mackenzie claimed she had this ten-year-long sexual relationship with her dad, rocker of the mammas and the papas, died back in 2001. in a brand-new interview today,

mackenzie's stepmom, michelle, called her a liar. michelle telling this to the hollywood reporter. she's had a needle stuck up her arm for 35 years. she was arrested for heroin and coke just recently. she did celebrity rehab and now she writes a book. the whole thing is timed. mackenzie is jealous of her siblings who accomplished a lot and did not become drug addicts. she also tells "showbiz tonight," what mackenzie did was so hurtful to the family. jane, the truth is, we may never for sure what actually happened. but from what you've seen and heard, does it even seem feasible that michelle phillips could be right and maybe mackenzie did make the whole thing up? >> a.j., what makes this story so tantalizing is that we don't know if she's telling the truth or not. as the old story goes, nobody knows what happens behind closed doors. but i think michelle makes a very good point. mackenzie was arrested for alleged drug possession just over a year ago in august of 2008 and those were hard drugs,

allegedly. so at the very most, she says she's owner today, she's at best, just a little over a year sober, perhaps a lot less than that. this is not the kind of thing suggested to do in early sobriety. i'm a person with 14 1/2 years of sobriety. and i know in my first couple of years, what i did was i worked on my program, almost to the exclusion of everything else to stay sober. they tell you, don't get into a heavy duty relationship in your first year. so, certainly, don't go on "oprah" and say that you had sex with your father. look at how destabilizing this is. so i think she should be doing this on a shrink's couch. >> destabilizing, and obviously it opens herself up to a whole lot of extra criticism because of the addiction and abuse she endured for all those years. in another brand-new interview today, mackenzie went back on tv. this was her very first reaction to michelle's scathing word. you've got to see what she said on the "today" show just this morning. >> i'm not here to tell anybody

else's story but mine. we've all experienced our dad in different ways, thank god. and i love my sisters, i love my brothers, i love michelle. i wish that i had all of their support. but i don't. and that's all right. i understand. this is very difficult. and to be revealed on a public level such as this makes it even more difficult. and my heart goes out to them. and i know that, god willing, as a family, we will be stronger when this all dies down. >> well, they can only hope at this point. obviously, mackenzie was a lot more prepared for all of this than her family. leslie, over to you, if mackenzie did make this up, you've got to wonder, why? >> well, i would imagine attention, certainly, many people who have been through programs like jane and have been addicts, whether it's drugs or alcohol, lying definitely does seem to be an m.o. there. it could be to help sell her book. but i have to say, you know, in my experience as woman, when i have worked with different groups of victims, whether it be

rape or incest, and certainly incest is rape when it's not, you know, a consensual situation, and you know you have to believe, i believe, you have to believe the victim unless you can prove otherwise. and the reason so many people, especially in incest, and why it's so taboo, are uncomfortable coming forward, is because families react this way and because people don't believe them. so if -- we have to assume that she's telling the truth, unless something otherwise is proven. >> and john phillips, her father, died in 2001, so obviously won't be hearing from him. mackenzie's stepmom, not the only member of the family speaking out today. we're hearing it on the other side. today, "showbiz tonight" got our hands on a brand-new interview with mackenzie's sister, you know chynna phillips. chynna tells "us weekly" back in 1997 mackenzie had told her then about the incestuous relationship with her father. chynna says she was shocked but believed it, saying who in their right mind would make up such a

claim if it wasn't true? i wish i had been made privy to the information that she was writing this book beforehand. the repercussions of a book like this, they don't just affect mackenzie. and in some late-breaking news today, "the oprah winfrey show" just told "showbiz tonight" late this afternoon both chynna and mackenzie will be appearing together on the oprah winfrey show friday. that should be quite a firestorm there. jane, whether or not the claims are true, does the family just have ever right to be furious she's speaking out like this? >> well, these claims are kind of like taking a hand grenade and throwing into it a family situation and watching the entire family explode. obviously, it's very polarizing and there are differences of opinion, even within the family. i, myself, have a tendency to go back and forth on this one. one sound bite i think, maybe she's telling the truth, the next sound bite i think, maybe she's not telling the truth. but the fact is that there are so many factors that could come into play in this situation. michelle says, for example, that mackenzie is jealous of chynna because chynna has achieved

success on her own as a singer with wilson phillips. so is there jealous here? is there a need in these celebrity families where everybody seems to be famous to stand out some way, even if it's not by accomplishing anything. even if it's by this sort of confessional? so it's really a very nuanced, complex situation. and i think they should also go into family therapy and work this out behind closed doors. >> wouldn't that be something? >> well, in more big news breaking today, i've got to gel to, of all people, oprah now coming under fire, by a lot of people, including mackenzie's stepmom, michelle phillips. she told the hollywood reporter, john was a bad parent and a drug addict, but, blanking his daughter, if she thinks it's true, why isn't she with a good psychiatrist on a couch. i think it's unconscionable that oprah would let her do her show. i have every reason to believe it's untrue. oprah should be more judicious about who she has on her show.

is that ridiculous, or does she have a point? >> i don't think michelle has a point with oprah. i think we all agree with you, psychiatrist couch and you don't first put it out there in the public. you sit down with the family, i'm writing a book, this is what it's about, i'm going to be on "oprah" and say this. but attacking oprah, she's a talk show host and it's her job to get rate skpgs she does that very well. and to have people come on and divulge very deep, dark secrets and that's what mackenzie did and oprah's the place you want to promote a book and that's what mackenzie did as well. >> even if mackenzie may have made all this stuff up, could all the attention she brought to incest actually turn out to be a good thing? >> absolutely. because we're only as sick as our secrets. let's get it out in the open. this is the final taboo. it's something society needs to talk about. unfortunately, it does happen a lot and we do need to talk about it. >> i appreciate you being here to talk about it tonight. leslie marshall, jane velez-mitche velez-mitchell, thanks so much. moving on, tonight it is the battle of the sexist smackdown. i'm talking about the great

cougar debate. courteney cox's new show "cougar town" has everybody talking today. this older women/younger dude trend has certainly been around far while, so why do real-life cougars like demi moore and linda hogan just get slammed for having younger men? is there a double standard? and shocking revelations about elizabeth he fesabeth has newborn son's health scare. and look at this baby's shaking his thing. you know you want to see more of this. i'm going to show you much more of this adorable baby video everybody's going to love, even you, kanye west. this is "showbiz tonight" on hln. now it's time for the "showbiz news ticker," here come more stories from the "showbiz tonight" newsroom, making news right now. you've worked all your life.

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welcome back to "showbiz tonight." i'm a.j. hammer in new york. tonight, it is the great cougar debate. okay.

a nationwide debate erupted today after courteney cox's controversial new show "cougar town" debuted last night on abc. the ratings came in late today, the show, a total hit, 11 million viewers for this thing. courtny plays the cougar, divorced and dating men for half her age. why is it okay for older men to date younger men, but not the ore way around? tonight, the great cougar debate. joining me tonight in hollywood, carlos diaz, a correspondent for extra. also tonight in hollywood, pat lala lalama, an investigative journalist. thank you very much. courteney cox, i must say, is rather cougarlicious in this show. it didn't shy away from the big troefrs about being a cougar. the question is, is there a double standard. courteney cox's character is sick of it, i tell you. look at this. >> your wife moves out a week ago and you're already sexing up

v sorority girls. way to go, tiger. >> we don't call each other tiger. maybe what really drives you nuts is that you couldn't bag a young stud if you tried. >> pat lalama, i'm going to ask you to stand by for a moment and let carlos have his say. does courteney cox have a point, is there a big double standard when it comes to older women dating younger men? >> pat, ease up. as both a samurai and a tiger, i want to say this. yes, there is a complete double standard when it comes to older guys dating younger women as opposed to older women dating younger guys and i am completely for older women getting back out there and getting in the dating scene, because as a guy who can date a 20-year-old or a 45-year-old, it's just more girls for me. pat, what do you have to say about that? >> let me tell you what i have to say. for years, women fell into that mode of believing that our

breasts are sagging and our butt is flabby and we're just not attractive anymore, well, now it's our turn. we don't like flabby guts, nose hair, and snoring. so finally we get our say. and judging by all those male enhancement ads i have to sit through, you poor guys, maybe not you, carlos, but you guys are pathetic. we're just trying to have a good time. money fame and power. >> that's the great equalizer, pat, those ads you see on tv, that's the one thing we can't do that 22-year-olds can do, so now the playing field has now been equaled. >> okay, enough about those ads on tv. let's not forget, guys, there are cougar relationships that last. look at ashton kutcher and demi moore, a 15-year age difference. when they first started dating,

she was 40, he was 25. >> demi and i have an agreement that we don't keep count. so she gives to me, i give to her. as long as it all feels even, we're good. we're keeping count. >> would you say that demi is the poster cougar for anyone who dates older women, younger men can work? >> she is the poster cougar. i'll tell you right now, and i'm being honest when i say this, she has got it all. because it all comes down to youth versus experience, okay? now, the 22-year-old's got all the youth and none of the experience and the 45-year-old has got all the experience and none of the youth, demi moore's got both. so, pat, as a 45-year-old, do you hit the gym every once in a while? >> hold on a second, pat. >> i've been out with young, i've been out with old, you're all dysfunctional, so it doesn't matter. >> you do have a point there. we can't argue with that. that's not what we're talking about. stand by a moment. obviously, this has been a subject of great debate on the "showbiz tonight" facebook page

which blew up over the whole cougar issue. let me read a couple of things. kenneth f., "i just think that society looks at the older woman/younger guy as a bit strange, but, hey, whatever floats the boat. freedom of choice. does that apply here?" ana m. writing, "i'm surprised that linda hogan wasn't recruited for this show." listen to what she said about the first time she saw her young love muffin. >> how did you meet? >> on the beach. he was so hot-looking. i was like, dang. >> when you hear this, do you say, more power to your cougar self, linda, i'm speaking specifically about her, or are you a little embarrassed for her. she's 50, he's 20. a 30-year age difference. >> i am not embarrassed by any older woman going out with any younger guy.

>> quickly. >> i've had experience with men younger than me, not now, but earlier. the fact of the matter, i find that young guys that can handle older women are more secure, not threatened, not intimidated, they like the fact that a woman will pick up the check, that she's been around the world, that she has something to talk about. that's not threatening to them. i think a lot of guys find very experienced, together women quite threatening to matheir ma ego. >> i believe i've made a love keck here. as we move on tonight, a big return today on "the view" for elisabeth hasselbeck, at least for a couple of minutes. elisabeth on maternity leave after having her third child, isaiah. she filled the ladies in on her newborn's health scare. >> how is isaiah. >> he is great. he had a little bit of a hiccup, had him in the hospital for a couple of weeks more than we thought, but everybody is safe

and home and healthy and nothing's organized or clean. i actually gave him a bath today, because he was going to be on tv. i haven't showered in about a week. >> yeah, we can smell it. >> all right. i've got a question for you. who do you think is the most provocative celebrity of the week. starting friday night and every friday night, tv's most provocative news show is daring to name the most provocative celebrity of the week. before we do, we want to know who you think is the most provocative celebrity of the week. several ways to let us know. send us an e-mail. "showbiz tonight"@cnn.com. call us at showbiz oncall. 1-888-728-2899 or go to the "showbiz tonight" facebook page and write on our wall. to find us go to facebook. in the search box type "showbiz tonight." tonight, wait until you see the most hilarious send up of beyonce's "single ladies" ever. move on over. it's a single baby. i'm telling you. the moves on this kid are priceless.

don't you move. we've got so much more of this video. you'll be telling all your friends about it in the morning. now the showbiz news ticker. more stories from the showbiz newsroom making news right now. what's on the minds of independent investors? let's ask.

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that's the video that kanye west called one of the best of all time when he jumped on stage at the mtv video music awards. tonight you won't believe who is rocking out to beyonce's "single lady." beyonce's "single ladies" video has everyone wanting to do her funky, funky moves. all kinds of people put on those skimpy leotards and posted their own versions on youtube. well, today, i came across someone in probably the

skimpiest get-up with moves that, well, i can't quite put into words. it's a baby doing the single ladies dance. you've got to watch this. ♪ ♪ >> oh, man. this is hilarious. ♪ >> that was pretty funny, and i'm pretty sure that's a real baby. i love that. tonight, dethroned miss california, carrie prejean who touched off the major anti-gay firestorm, she is back and bearing skin again. look at this. carrie strutting her stuff in a skimpy women of marvel comics halloween costumes. today, we found out that she got this modeling gig at last year's

comiccon convention, long before her controversial comments at the miss usa pageant. she was caught up in another racy photo scandal during her reign when she blamed a breezy day for semitopless photos which surfaced of her online. we're not sure what the weather was like on the day she wore that outfit. wednesday, we asked you to vote on our showbiz question of the day. just moments ago i was handade final results. ellen degeneres defends herself. can she ever fill paula abdul's shoes on "american idol." 58% said yes. 42% said no. donna in arizona writes, i do not believe that ellen is going to fill paula's shoes. nor is she trying to. she is just trying to do the job she has been asked to do. gail from the bahamas. who the hell would want to fill those shoes? ellen didn't have to worry about that. that's it for "showbiz tonight." i'm a.j. hammer in new york.

catch "showbiz tonight" on the 11s, 11:00 eencht and pacific and in the morning at 11:00 a.m. eastern on hln. coming up next on "issues," superstar john travolta takes the stand as the star witness in the bahamas and talks about how he tried to save his son jett, all to no avail. all part of the extortion case. two individuals in the bahamas, one a former senator charged ith trying to extort john travolta to the tune of $25 million. but the big issue tonight, john travolta admits his late son was autistic. that is a big development. we will analyze it tonight on "issues." we're also going to talk about, whoa, this story of mackenzie phil lips just gets stranger and stranger. she is making still more allegations of abuse by her father, john phillips. of course, lead singer of the mamas and the papas. he's been dead for eight years.

he cannot defend himself. one of his ex-woifs is coming ve out and saying, you lie.íh we're going to analyze it on "issues."es i knew i had to see my doctor. he told me i had choices in controller medicines. we chose symbicort. symbicort starts to improve my lung function within 15 minutes. that's important to me because i know the two medicines in symbicort are beginning to treat my symptoms and helping me take control of my asthma. and that makes symbicort a good choice for me. symbicort will not replace a re0=ue inhaler for sudden symptoms. and should not be taken more than twice a day. symbicort contains formoterol. medicines like formoterol may increase the chance of asthma-related death. so, it is not for people whose asthma is well controlled on other asthma medicines. see your doctor if your asthma does not improve or gets worse. i know symbicort won't replace a rescue inhaler. within 15 minutes symbicort starts to improve my lung function and begins to treat my symptoms. that makes symbicort a good choice for me. you have choices. ask your doctor if symbicort is right for you.

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with an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan... insured by united healthcare insurance company. call now for youfree information kit... and medicare guide and find out... how you could start saving. tonight, a famous father's desperate fight to keep his son alive. heartbreaking details from the death of jett travolta. john travolta took the stand in the bahamas and described in vivid detail how he desperately performed cpr and rushed his son to the hospital. two people are accused of trying to extort $25 million from the hollywood legend during his darkest hour. will travolta's testimony be enough to lock them up? and bombshell developments in the search for little haleigh cummings. shocking claims this child may have overdosed on oxycotin

while at a party with misty croslin. all this, according to an alleged letter written by a family friend. misty failed polygraph tests in the past, but is this new evidence credible? also, a bizarre twist in the case of jaycee dugard. he claims to be jaycee's real biological father. could this provide insight into her captivity? plus, let the backlash begin. just one day after mackenzie phillips spilled her guts on "oprah," her stepmom calling the former sitcom star a liar. mackenzie claims she and her father, john, had an affair. now mackenzie says she had an abortion because she wasn't sure if the baby belonged to her dad. so who is telling the truth here? and why did mackenzie wait this long to write her tell-all book? "issues" starts now. tonight, john travolta bares

his soul and makes a shocking admission, all under oath. john travolta, the star witness, testifying against two alleged low-life extortionists in the bahamas. prosecutors say a former prosecutors say a former senator -- senator of the bahamas and a paramedic tried to squeeze $25 million from the superstar in the wake of his 16-year-old son's tragic death. jett, whose medical condition has always been the subject of debate, died of a seizure in january. in court, john travolta came right out and said it. "yes, my son was autistic." travolta's first public revelation included tearful testimony about watching his son die before his eyes. "i saw him on the bathroom floor. we continued cpr, and my wife was holding his head." in another shocker, reports that secret police videos exposing

the alleged extortion plot. the tape shot weeks after jett's death, allegedly shows the paramedic, tarino lightbourn, facing off. the blackmail scheme travolta would pay millions to keep a so-called refusal to transport document out of the public eye. now, here's how it apparently went down. travolta's rep said what we're doing is a criminal offense. the paramedic said yes. the rep for travolta said if we get caught, we're both in trouble. the paramedic said yes. it would stand to reason travolta's rep knew a secret camera was rolling, taking down every word. when was this conspiracy hatched anyway? paramedic lightbourn seen here on tmz, talked to abc's "good morning america" soon after jett's death, before we knew anything at all about any scheme. >> i saw him leaning over, hugged his son, kissed him, told

him he loved him, tell him, i did everything i could. i saw love in his eyes. he then turned to me, gave me a hug and said you guys did a wonderful job. >> paramedics who go on tv and say what happened in the ambulance. tonight's big issue, did the tragedy of jett's death and the pressure from this awful extortion drama snap john travolta out of denial about his son's autism? i want to hear from you about that. straight out to my panel, janie weintraub. criminal defense attorney. thomas rufkin. former nypd detective. investigator and president of tmz's investigative group. dr. kareem, psychiatrist. addiction specialist, director of the control center in beverly hills and assistant clinical professor at ucla. boy, everybody's got a lot of titles tonight. but first, to the one and only

jean casarez, attorney and correspondent at "in session." tell us about the secret videotape that cops say caught blackmailers in the act. >> you can imagine to have a videotape inside a trial. a prosecution of this nature. this is huge for the prosecution, and the defense is trying to get it suppressed. but here's what it is. you have that former senator/attorney actually negotiating with john travolta's representative, and you're right, john travolta's representative is going to be the one consenting to all of this, that is a party to it. not actually, but criminal activity can be documented. then negotiating a sum that the paramedic wants to keep this document undisclosed from the public. not only did we hear amounts bantered back and forth, but we hear travolta's representative say, this is a crime. so we know knowledge of criminality is important in bahamian law. but the end all to this is, this

is critical evidence for the prosecution. >> janie weintraub, i have to ask, if they got it all on tape, why do they need anything else? why do they need john travolta or anybody else to get on the stand and testify? it's on tape, caught. >> we're not sure exactly what was on tape and how it was taped. whenever there's a tape recording or videotape, the legal issues are simple. you can't deny what's happening but what you can question is whether or not it was entrapment, number one. whether or not they were predisposed to commit the crime, who initiated the conversation, what exactly was said and, number two, was it taken out of context. in other words, we don't have the videotape, the entire transcript. >> guess what? i've got some of the transcript, and i'm going to read it right now. radaronline got ahold of transcripts. defense attorneys tried to have them suppressed on grounds they were illegally recorded. check this out. va volta's rep says "we're willing to pay handsomely for the document." the former bahamian senator, who

is also charged with extortion speaks on behalf of the paramedic saying he said 25 million, as in dollars. travolta's rep if he's willing to negotiate, we can make him a wealthy man. i'm not buying a piece of paper. i'm buying his silence, end quote. now this document in question is this refusal to transport paper. travolta says i signed it in the heat of the moment because he wanted to go to the airport and fly his son back to the states. thomas, what doesn't make sense about this entire case is that refusal to transport document is not blackmail document. it's a big, who cares. they could publish it in the front page of "the new york times" and nobody would care at all. >> that's exactly right. videotapes are going to be very telling in this court and people love it in the advent of "csi" and "law & order," they love to see videotape and hear audio recordings. it really makes the prosecution case and ties them to those tapes. >> now, i got to say, russell,

you're the pop culture expert. but i have to call these paramedics the paramedics from hell. travolta told the jurors it took 35 to 40 minutes for the ambulance to arrive. and somewhere along the line they decided we're going to stop and switch ambulances and they moved this poor kid out of one ambulance and put him in another and let the journey continue again. this at a moment where every single second counts. then after all this, they have the audacity to allegedly try to blackmail the star. >> yeah, jane. you would think the power of celebrity would be a good resource here. but like we saw in the michael jackson case, where they called 911 and didn't say it was michael jackson. so that doesn't seem to be helping people out. it is john travolta and you were talking about before why is he testifying when there's video? it's because it's john travolta. if you can have a celebrity present in a courtroom it can make all the difference.

unfortunately it didn't make a difference that day with the way the paramedics behaved, except it brought extortion out. so celebrity has pros and cons, jane. >> reef kareem, is this a catharsis for john travolta or is it reopening a wound? >> it is reopening a wound. this is ridiculous. the mourning of a son, of an offspring is an intense grieving process. we're looking here at a seizure disorder which, at least in this case, seems to be about 4% to 32% of the time linked to autism. it does happen, and in this case, the son needed to be taken to the hospital at a very quick pace in order to see where this epileptic activity is occurring in the brain. this is a very sad base and will make it much harder for mr. travolta to deal with this. >> we'll talk in a moment about tonight's big issue. namely, did the tragedy of

jett's death and the pressure from this awful extortion drama snap john travolta out of denial about his son's autism? we'll talk about that in a second because that is the subject on everybody's mind. more on all of this in just a moment. also taking your calls. 1-877-586-729 8 coming up, a man claiming to be jaycee dugard's dad steps into the stop light. but why now? how do you think jaycee feels about that? what do we know about the man who tried to profit off jett travolta's death, the man who once called john friend? >> john travolta knew his son was a special child. and he nurtured the relationship. he gave him love, demonstrated publicly at all times. ♪

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>> that is one of the defendants, former senator bridgewater's attorney talking about john travolta's appearance as a star witness in this case. tonight's big issue, did the tragedy of jett's death and the pressure from this awful extortion drama snap john travolta out of denial about his son's autism? here's the devoted dad talking about his son to abc news in 2001. >> i probably cried harder and heavier than i've ever cried in my life. it is just -- i didn't know what i was going to do because i never felt that level of love for another human being. you know, and there it was, my baby. my son, he's 2 1/2. i can handle death and i can handle people dying. but my baby, it was just, forget it. >> our heart goes out to him, obviously. john's brother, joey, has long been an advocate for people with autism. he runs a film camp for autistic kids. this photo is from his website, joeyt.com. but until now, john travolta has reportedly insisted that jett

was not autistic. there was talk of a rare disease called kawasaki syndrome. so what caused him to finally admit it? dr. kareem, what do you think caused him to do this 180 on this controversy of autism? >> yeah, you know, i'm not going to get into exactly why he didn't talk about autism in the first place. i can say that a lot of parents are in denial about their son's medical illness. a lot of people don't want to see it. the reality is, what is autism? it's a brain development disorder, impaired social interactions, impaired communication, repetitive behavior. basically it means your son is going to act out. he's not going to be the son you want in a lot of social situations. a lot of autistic kids do very well in other ways. and a lot of the times you want to keep it quiet. you don't want to mention it. why should you tell people what's going on with your son? >> there's one other possibility. john travolta and kelly preston

are well known scientologists. >> right. >> their beliefs and their practices have been the subject of some controversy, especially as they relate to autism. a former scientology minister was sbried by cbs for "the early show." listen to this. >> the only reason a person can get ill is because they are in some way connected to a suppressive person. and a suppressive person is someone, mainly someone who is opposed to scientology. it's really a big deal. so how the travoltas dealt with this, an illness, a chronic illness in the family, i'm not sure how they would have been able to explain it. >> look, i'm a big believer in religious beliefs. i'm not going to challenge anybody's religious beliefs, but that's not what we're talking about. given the considerable pressure to keep this sort of under wraps, did travolta take a risk by making this admission? or jean casarez, did the need to see justice done trump his

religious beliefs at the end of the day? >> i think possibly it also had privacy concerns up to this point. when you're on the stand, even in the bahamas, you are sworn to tell the truth. the question was asked, he responded in the answer. remember, he didn't have to testify or go to the bahamas. so he supports this prosecution. >> lea, west virginia, your question or thought, ma'am? >> caller: our daughter is autistic and suffers from seizures and also an insulin dependent diabetic. this child has taught us so very much about love and increased our aptitude for patience and added so very much to our lives. i can't tell you how hurtful it is that they lost someone so special in their lives. but these children work so hard for every little thing that they achieve, and they celebrate

everything that they can possibly accomplish. >> may i ask you a question, ma'am. did you ever have any concerns about revealing that your child was autistic? >> caller: her father did. he wanted her to be completely included in school and i was fearful that she would fall down in school. and eventually i lost custody because i preferred -- i wanted to home school her. >> well, lea, i want to thank you -- >> caller: i also want to thank you for standing out and showing the world that addicts and alcoholics are not the bizarre homeless person, that many, many of us -- and this whole business with mackenzie phillips has shined a great deal on my own personal problems. >> well, i wish you the very best, ma'am. we're going to talk about mackenzie phillips later on. hang in there and watch because we have interesting information. but i thought that caller, jean casarez, was absolutely on the nose, that these children are so wonderful and they are really

gifted in so many other ways than an average child is. why not celebrate that from the get-go? why keep it under wraps? >> i think it has to do with the religion and i think it's a personal decision. remember, he was still basically a little boy, and maybe the family had just not made the decision yet to go forward with it. maybe to protect him. >> yeah, and jane, also with autistic kids, a lot of them have incredible talents that are not seen. they're not evident unless they are able to be expressed. that's why it's important that autistic kids are being trained, supervised, educated to express their specific talents that aren't necessarily day-to-day talents that the average kid has. >> janie weintraub, i think jean casarez hit the nail on the head when she said it's a court of law. you have to tell the truth. so when he was asked what did your son suffer from, he had to say it.

>> jane, i want to say how much john travolta should be applauded for voluntarily going to the bahamas to testify. he couldn't be forced or compelled to go to the bahamas, another country. but also, it says something for the celebrities to stand up and fight back and not to be exploited or have their family's privacy exploited. i think what happened here was reprehensible, if in fact the allegations are true. i applaud john travolta fighting back. >> and our heart goes out to him. thomas, final word. >> jane, i think that also john travolta wanted to bring autism to the forefront. and i applaud him for doing that. i think it will help autistic children and help the parents of those autistic children, not hide it. >> yeah, okay. russell, five seconds. >> what i was going to say is it's the exact opposite. he had all these years to bring light to it. like jenny mccarthy has. this could have been a real

educational moment all these years. a celebrity getting behind a cause is important and he never did that. >> got to leave it there. people get to where they get to when they get to it. up next, another strange twist in the jaycee dugard case. who is this man claiming to be her biological father? w step out of the house ldn't without my makeup. now, it's no problem. (announcer) neutropéna tone correcting night serum with high performance soy to even skin ton, and active retinol to speed cell turn over. clinically shown to visibly fade brown spots in 14 nights. i even out my skin at night so it looks younger, flawless in the morning. (announcer) neutrogena tone correcting now you can fade and prevent discolorations all day. new tone correcting spf 30.

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breaking news tonight in the haleigh cummings case. did the little girl accidently overdose on oxycontin? we've got a copy of a letter that places misty cummings and little haleigh at a wild drug fueled party the night she disappeared. here's what a friend of misty's friend wrote -- >> hailey got ahold of some oxycontin and died. we supposedly freaked out and put her in a black bag in my car and we took her to the lake. the author of the letter says

she's just paraphrasing a theory police got from somebody else. the writer claims the whole story is a big lie. as for the pond in question, police drained a pond last weekend and say they didn't find any evidence. meantime, "issues" has just learned that a nationwide warrant has been issued for misty's mom, of all people. lisa croslin is wanted on forgery charges in tennessee. this is unbelievable. seems like everybody in this case is in trouble with the law. welcome back, janie weintraub. let's talk about this letter. is it all about cops putting the squeeze on misty to finally come clean? >> that's what it appears to be. it is mind blowing that the police didn't know this before because they had telephone records. i don't understand why they couldn't have seen that ron, the father, was calling the house 20 times and that the brother said misty wasn't there and he went over there. >> everybody thought for a long time that she wasn't there, quite possibly. but it was -- the question was, where was she and with whom? now, this party theory is in sharp contrast to what misty claimed happened that very night. listen to what she says.

>> i put her to bed about 8:00 and i woke up and she was gone. the back door was wide open. that's the last time i seen her. >> were you all in the same bed? >> no. she was in her bed in front of the tv. >> wow, she's lying there. she deserves some kind of acting award. that's quite a performance. >> on the other hand, the writer of the letter, that's the kind of person that i cross-examine every day in court. that's the person looking for the benefit of a bargain. we don't have the body to compare, we don't know if she's dead, if she did die, what's the autopsy going to reveal. is oxycontin there or not? it's going to take a while to play out, if ever. >> if she died at a party, wouldn't it have come out already? a party, a party means people.

>> these people in jail that write letters to police wanting to get a benefit and that's all it is. and they're striking up controversy and i don't believe it just based on the letter at all. >> but it's certainly a theory, and something had to happen, more than what they're saying now. >> they searched the pond and -- >> there's a lot of ponds down there in florida. i know. i used to live down there. there's a pond every couple blocks. who knows what pond? >> they searched the pond apparently that the letter referred to near the house. all i can say is i just wouldn't go with this credibility so fast. and i would also like to know what the person is in jail for. what is she looking for? and how did she know? how long has she been in custody? why is she talking now? you have to look at the motives of someone like that. >> i have to say this, i think that everybody in this case who knows misty is being used as a pawn. her friends, her family, they're all being locked up one after another to put the squeeze on little old misty and to break her. thank you very much, janie. up next, is the man claiming to be jaycee dugard's biological

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a bizarre twist in the jaycee dugard case. a man has come forward and claims to be jaycee's biological father. is this guy for real? why is he coming out of the woodwork now, and could he provide us with new insight into jaycee's life in captivity? plus, let the backlash begin. one day after mackenzie phillips spilled her guts, her stepmom is firing back, calling the former sitcom star a liar. mackenzie now claims she had an abortion because she wasn't sure if the baby belonged to her father, with whom she insists she had an incestuous affair. who is telling the truth here?

tonight, another emotional jolt to jaycee dugard's fragile new life, just weeks after she was released from 18 long years of captivity. a 63-year-old man claims he is her biological father. listen to this one. >> we understand and respect that she and the children have suffered greatly and may need time before being reunited. however, we are reaching out today and hoping and praying that she will hear us and take the first step in helping confirm that she is my daughter. >> ken slayton claims she and jaycee's mom had a brief relationship in 1979. she told him she was pregnant and then disappeared. no one in the dugard family has responded. if this guy is her father, why go public at this very sensitive time for jaycee? the dugard's attorney says they haven't heard from him privately. why not?

slayton could barely get through his statement he was so emotional. but think of how emotional this bombshell was for jaycee. we're also learning that jaycee plans to testify against her alleged rapist and captor, phillip garrido. is jaycee finally coming to grips with the terrible existence that she and her daughters endured? tonight, a new issue. a new law enforcement incompetence shocker. reports that phillip garrido -- are you sitting down -- didn't register as a sex offender in california until 1999, even though he was convicted of rape and kidnap in 1977. why wasn't this glaring omission caught? back with my expert panel. let's start with this man who says he's jaycee's dad. dr. kareem, is it a loving thing to do to drop a bombshell like this on jaycee dugard now, telling her, hey, i'm your dad, when she's dealing with enough trauma for several lifetimes already?

>> how much more can this poor girl endure? this is all about reality testing. it's about reintegrating into society. she had societal deprivation. everything that she knew was different than what's going on in reality. so trust, getting back into society, learning her identity, learning how to live a life and get past all of this emotional trauma that's going to take a ton of therapy to do is standing in front of her. now you get this whole thing. and it's going to just confuse -- it's confusing us. can you imagine what it's doing to her? this is absolutely confusing and will absolutely stand in the way of good therapeutic work that she's going to endure. >> i have to ask, what's next for this poor girl? >> this is so absurd. this guy can't be a father. he may have her blood in him, but i can tell you something, jane. no father, as you were saying, would put on their daughter right now any more stress or

anymore emotional drama to have to go through. and this is a guy who absolutely absconded responsibility -- didn't want anything to do with it. >> wait, wait. we weren't there way back in 1979. we don't know what happened. you know, these kinds of things happen all the time. i don't think we need to demonize him. i just think we've got to question his timing. isn't that the theme of tonight's "issues" show. the question of timing and motive. slayton's attorney, who i'm a big fan of, gloria allred, says that he's considering legal action if he's refused the opportunity to take a paternity test to prove his theory. >> she's 29 years old. we're not talking about a child. >> let's listen to this for a second. >> even though my friend indicated that susan didn't want me in her life, i did make an effort to contact her but was not successful.

i've had many nightmares over the years wondering if i could have done more to help susan and the baby. >> so look, thomas, i'm not a scientist but it seems obvious to determine whether he's really the dad he would need the cooperation of jaycee or the children. would it be wise to cooperate at this juncture or say no, take legal action against me? >> what's the purpose? if i was representing the dugard family, i would say no. why do you want to come into my life, so you can write a book or something? i don't understand it and i don't understand why he's coming out at this point in time. it seems like too little, too late. >> let's talk about another big issue. jaycee is apparently prepared to help put her alleged kidnappers behind bars. her attorney says yes, she will testify at phillip and nancy garrido's trial. here's what he told the "cbs "early show." >> i think she clearly understands that some very badded and terrible things were

done to her and the people that committed those crimes need to be held accountable. >> this is amazing. i mean, she was obviously traumatized. originally she was almost sort of defending garrido saying she hadn't been touched in years by him, et cetera, et cetera. now it seems like the brain washing is wearing off and she's coming to terms with this horror that was inflicted on her and maybe getting a little bit angry, we hope. dr. reef? >> yeah, the -- some people are talking about stockholm syndrome here, which is where you start bonding with your captors, you idealize your captors because they're kind of taking care of you. it ends up having a perceived threat that they might hurt you, a perceived sense of lack of escape in a situation. and random acts of kindness that they give you. so you're in this bubble where your sense of survival, as sick as this is, is idealized by your captors. >> but it's rubbing off now.

>> exactly. so you get yourself out of that situation and slowly, with therapy, with help, with reintegration, with reality and the truth, you slowly get out of that mental state. this is a sign of that. >> jayne weintraub, one other thing that drove me crazy when i saw it. it appears garrido didn't register as a sex offender in california until 1999, despite his 1977 convictions in nevada for kidnapping and rape. can you believe that? >> i think these where the problem is. in the '70s, i don't think there was a registration law in california that was in place. i know that it wasn't in place in florida at that time. so i'm sure it wasn't a matter of falling through the cracks. >> i'm not talking about the '70s. they had that house since 1991. so at least in 1991, somebody should have done some kind of calculation to see -- there's a registered sex offender living there. let's register him in california's registry.

and then we would have known to look for him maybe when those kids disappeared or after those kids disappeared. >> it is a -- it's a domino effect from the probation department through corrections in california. but the registration issue is a whole other bag of worms. >> yeah, well, whatever. it's just one more piece of incompetence in this mess, physically and other ways. up next, the convicted killer, a mental patient who was on the run for three days tells us now on camera why his escape was just another laudy daw adventure in his life. then the daughter of a rock legend says she had sexual relations with her dad. you don't want to miss her bone-chilling story. it gets stranger and stranger. we're taking your calls on this incest story. 1-877-586-7297. do you believe her? meantime, we have a very, very exciting addition to our primetime lineup coming your way next week. "the joy behar show" will air

every single night right here at 9:00 p.m. eastern on hln. here is a little taste of what you're going to be getting. her moment of joy commentary. >> this week we have the season premiere of "dance with the stars." right from the start it was fabulous. marie osmond returned to the scene of the crime to support her brother donny. who was sit with marie? jermaine jackson. the man is everywhere. he's like smog. my favorite contestant this year is the hammer, tom delay, the former house majority leader who may soon be dancing behind bars. tom was wearing a tiny brown vest with glitter. he looked like one of the flying monkeys from the wizard of oz. at the beginning of the show, he seemed uncomfortable sitting there with all those russian immigrants and gay men. he had that, what, am i the only one here under federal indictment look on his face.

once the competition started, he loosened up. i don't think a republican has had that much fun tapping his lows since larry craig worked the men's room in the minneapolis airport. i thought tom danced okay, even if the judges were a little rough. wait until he gets up in front of a real judge. i hope that tom sticks around all season. i just can't wait for little bruno to nail the hammer. but that's just me. >> all right. the "joy behar show" premieres next tuesday at 9:00 eastern on hln. check it out at cnn.com/joy. boss: so word's gettin' out that geico can help people save in even more ways -

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shock and disgust. the daughter of a rock legend reveals her dark and secret past with her alleged rapist dad. but first, top of the block

tonight. a criminally insane killer who escaped from a county fair last week is ha, ha, ha laughing about the whole thing. convicted and hospitalized more than 20 years ago for killing a woman, phillip paul says he's sorry for taking off during a mental hospital field trip. listen as paul tells our affiliate khq why he decided to run off. >> you know they're going to catch up with you, but when, where, if they're going to kill you or what. i've always been an adventure person. i worked in alaska as a long shorman before i got sick. i had an adventurous life. it was tough to live in a mental institution all these years. >> tough? tough for you? what about the woman you killed and the people at the county fair terrified by your little stunt? look at the kid there. thankfully paul was captured three days later without

incident. his escape prompted the resignation of a very embarrassed hospital ceo. good. and that is tonight's "top of the block." revolting bombshell secrets revealed by former tv star mackenzie phillips. she says she had sex with her own dad. mackenzie tells oprah she passed out and woke up to her father, john phil lips, of the mamas and papas raping her. >> i woke up that night from a blackout to find myself having sex with my own father. your father is supposed to protect you. your father is supposed to protect you. not [ bleep ] you. >> mackenzie says it became a consensual sexual relationship. she told oprah it only ended after a horrifying discovery. >> i came up pregnant, and i did not know who the father was. the implication, the reality of

that, i had an abortion. and i never let him touch me again. >> today, two of her dad's ex-wives say you lie! michelle phillips, also a member of the mamas and paup as says take with a grain of salt anything that's said by a person who has had a needle in their arm for 35 years. so is this disgusting story the truth? my question, is mackenzie sober right now? she says she is. if she's sober, i don't think she'd make this up. if she's using, i think she could make something like this up. straight out to my expert panel, senior editor of "us weekly." but we have to begin with dr. reef kareem. does mackenzie seem sober to you in that interview? >> yeah, jane, i think you nailed it. i'm impressed with your insight there. >> thank you.

>> that was my question. the first time i heard this, she has a history of relapsing, and we know addiction to chronic relapsing illness. and the constant battle in an addict, if you've got your brain. you've got the frontal lobe of your brain and this deeper inside area. your frontal lobe says what's right, what's wrong, let's solve some problems and figure stuff out. and the other side says, give me drugs, give me drugs. so you have this constant battle. and if you're not sober or in recovery, your limbic side is saying get me drugs, get me stuff, get me anything. you'll lie, you'll cheat, you'll steal. you'll say whatever you need to say. your frontal lobe battles that out all the time. if she's not totally sober if she's still going through all of this stuff, any of this stuff could be made up, or she could be sober, and it should be fine. >> listen, if she's sober, it's only about a year, because it was just over a year ago that she was arrested, ian drew,

senior editor of "us weekly" on charges of very serious drug possession, cocaine and heroin. >> exactly. i interviewed chynna, her half-sister, for our interview this week and she says she believes her because why would anyone make this up and call her. and this was something that she revealed to certain family members earlier. but i'm hearing from inside sources now that beju phillips doesn't believe her. michelle phillips told us she didn't believe her. so everyone is pretty divided because she has had this rocky road and she is on and off all the time, just as the doctor said. >> these claims have polarized her extended family. stepmom michelle phil lips tells the "hollywood reporter" mackenzie told her this happened awhile ago and then allegedly called back and said i was just choking. but michelle's daughter, mackenzie's sister, chynna phillips, says i do believe her,

and as you just heard, china is telling "us weekly" she knows it's true. she told oprah she was their dad's only victim. listen to this. >> i know for a fact that i'm the only daughter that this happened to. i don't know why he chose me to visit his demons upon. i don't know that. i wish that he were here, still alive. >> would you have told the story if he were alive? >> that i don't know about. probably. >> chynna and mackenzie will appear together on tomorrow's "oprah." i have to say, russell, are you watching this train wreck with horror? this is a family being torn apart and spilling on television what i think should be dealt with in a group family therapy session. >> i'm definitely watching, you know, and mackenzie better know her oprah history. if she's not telling the truth, you go back to james frey, when he came on "oprah" and told a

little big lie about his book, mackenzie better be telling the truth because oprah will not have it. >> oh, yeah. absolutely. we all remember how furious, how furious she was to get duped in that instance that you just mentioned. furious she was to get duped in that instance that you just mentioned. >> i'm really glad -- >> here's the problem. you can't tell whether she's telling the truth, because the man she's talking about has been dead for eight long years and as a song once said, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. let's leave it right there for a moment. when we come back, we'll talk about it some more. mackenzie phillips talks about her father's well documented drug abuse. children of addicts and alcoholics often inherit their parent's addiction. this is national recovery month. a great time to get sober. in my new book, i talk about my own father's alcoholism and how it influenced me to drink excessively. i finally got sober more than 14 years ago.

you can order my recovery memoir, out now in bookstores. look for the order section. if you're struggling with booze or drugs, my story can help you. we'll be back with the mackenzie phillips bombshell in a moment. - let's go with the, ah... - basic package.

good choice. only meineke let's you choose your service, choose your savings. like an oil change for just $19.95. meineke. i went to my father and i said, look, we need to talk about how you raped me. and my dad said, raped you? don't you mean when we made love? and in that moment, i thought wow, i'm really on my own here. >> mackenzie phillips on the oprah winfrey show. by the way, at about 5:00 i went on amazon.com, "pie on arrival" mackenzie's book, anybody want to take a guess where it is on amazon best seller list? any guesses? >> number one.

>> number three. that's pretty high up. ian, do you think this would be playing out any differently if john phillips were alive? >> who knows? it depends on where their relationship was at this point and where he was. he was a full-blown addict as we know, too. so if he was under the influence, he might have enjoyed this. he might have liked it, from the relationship the way she describes it, i wouldn't be surprised by that. >> i do think drugs is at the heart of this whole story, because when somebody does drugs, they become capable of incomprehensible things so we're more likely to believe a claim like this. mackenzie's book "high on arrival" makes more revelations about her dad's drug use. listen to this. >> i was probably 16 or 17, and my father shot me up for the

first time. >> yeah, yeah. >> and i remember going into my room and i was crouched on the floor, i was trying to -- >> you said tie me off or something. >> yeah, he tied me off. >> we all hear in recovery such stories, but this one is right up there. >> this is awful. i mean, if this is true, dad is functioning as a role model of how to be an addict. functioning as an enabler. and functioning as the dealer. and functioning as someone who is taking advantage of her. come on, this is crazy. and it just shows you how deep and how bad addiction can penetrate a family and an individual's life and how it can totally take somebody down. this is really sad. >> what kills me is that i love the momma's and poppa's and love listening to their music and i'll never be

able to listen to it the same way again. i will always think of this story. >> yeah, that's the problem here. he's not alive to defend himself and you will connect him and his music with this situation. here's the thing, jane, given the loose household and the nature of all the stuff that was going on, i find it hard to believe there aren't some witnesses, aren't some people out there that can't back this story up, at least many aspects of it. i don't think that two people on drugs like they were were able to keep this such a secret. >> ian drew, come on. we know in hollywood, the strangest things happen. and we know so many stories we can't report because we just don't have that final verification but we know it's true. >> we have one witness who is alive, mick jagger. she talks about that in the book, how he was there, he was part of this whole group and -- so where's mr. jagger? >> has he talked? >> he has not talked yet. but this just came out two days ago. >> let me tell you, don't mess with mick jagger because he could come out in a bag way, slamming the hammer

down on mackenzie. thank you, fabulous panel. you're watching "issues." ♪ ♪ i got troubles, oh ♪ but not today ♪ 'cause they're gonna wash away ♪ ♪ they're gonna wash away ♪ ♪ ♪ they're gonna wash away ♪ this old heart ♪ gonna take them away

[ quacks ]

> breaking news tonight, satsuma, florida, a 5-year-old little girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she's gone, vanished. the back door propped wide open. daddy comes home from the night shift to find not a trace of little haleigh. bombshell, tonight police issue a warrant for the arrest of croslin's mother, charge -- felony forgery. is this a police try to get the truth about haleigh from misty croslin's own mother? she's already publicly stated her daughter hasn't come clean

about the night haleigh vanishes and a letter emerges in the search for haleigh. outlining details of a party the night haleigh goes missing. a party fueled by drugs. at the party, misty croslin. with her? little haleigh. reports that night, little haleigh accidentally ingests a heavy-duty painkiller, oxycontin and died. we have the letter. this, as new stepmother misty croslin skips town after a bitter fight with haleigh's father, ronald cummings. croslin's brother thrown behind bars on a gun charge leading to another break in the case. in a late-night jailhouse interrogation, the brother finally confesses. he goes to haleigh's house the night she goes missing. pounds on the door, repeatedly. nobody home. phone records confirm, ronald cummings tries desperately to

reach croslin that night. no answer. where was girlfriend-turned-stepmother misty croslin during those crucial hours when haleigh goes missing? investigators focus on a heavily wooded area draining a local pond in connection with haleigh. as girlfriend-turned-stepmother, misty croslin flunked another polygraph. tonight, where is haleigh? >> i just want everybody to know that i didn't do anything with that little girl. i loved her like she's my own. and i'll do anything to get her back. >> did haleigh cummings die from an overdose of oxycontin? a letter obtained allegedly from a friend of misty croslin claims that haleigh got her hands on the powerful narcotic while at a party with misty and her friends the night of the disappearance. >> this is not anything that someone from the jail is trying to go to the police with and make a deal with and get a free pass out of jail. this is a letter that has arisen and has emerged and was not necessarily for the eyes of the police. >> the letter claims police were given a sworn affidavit by a

friend of misty's that states misty, haleigh, and a group of friends were partying at the friend's home the night of the disappearance. when haleigh overdosed the friends panicked, shoved haleigh's body in a black bag and tossed her in a nearby pond. >> ronald, has the theory that misty left the home sometime during the night been disproved? >> i'm not sure. i believe that it has, nancy. i'm almost 100% sure, but i wouldn't tell you that and lie to you. >> police are denying any friend have come forward making these allegations and are said to be completely ignoring the letter. all of misty's friends have reportedly been cleared and there are still no suspects in the case. >> hopefully, this will rattle the cage that misty's in right now. since she took off from home. because i think she is still holding the key to where little haleigh is. >> i have faith in god to take care of my baby girl and find her. and i don't care who had

something to do with it. those are the people who need to be put away. >> and tonight, live to connecticut, in the sudden disappearance of a gorgeous young ivy league doctoral student just as she's set to walk down the aisle. the 24-year-old beauty last spotted on grainy surveillance video walking into a yale research building. a false fire alarm mysteriously goes off in the building. people rush out. annie le never seen again. at nearly the exact hour, le's set to walk down the aisle, wedding dress on a hanger in the closet, flowers ordered. the girl's body found stuffed in a two-foot wall cable space there at yale's research building. early-morning hours, police storm a super 8 motel to arrest 24-year-old lab tech raymond clark on murder one. tonight, police close down the yale research building again.

new evidence discovered. plumbers, plumbers, not the police, the plumber discovers evidence shoved down a washroom drain there in the basement where mice cages cleaned by murder suspect raymond clark. and clark's alleged history of stalking, threatening, harassing women resurfaces. former girlfriend reveals clark's a control freak. lashing out. dictating what she says, where she goes, even what she wears. we have the video. was this a senseless and brutal murder over laboratory mice cages? and another twist, was suspect raymond clark fueled by steroids? with a community and a university reeling, a family grieving, a young groom left at the altar with a broken heart,

tonight we want justice for 24-year-old bride-to-be annie le. >> this is not a street crime. it was not a domestic crime. it's a workplace crime. >> police looking what clark's attitude may have lead to a deadly confrontation. >> annie le was strangled in the lab where he worked. clark who also works there is charged with doing it. then trying to hide her body in a wall in the lab ice basement. >> reports showing that dna from accused murderer raymond clark ii was found in both the ceiling and the tiny crawl space where le's body was uncovered sunday. according to reports, police observed clark trying to hide lab cleaning equipment containing blood spatters. a law enforcement official told the "hartford current" that clark was spotted in cleaning up areas

that le was in shortly before reported missing. >> co-workers tell police he's a control freak and also territorial when it came to the lab and the mice that he took care of. >> it's being reported that he maintained the cages and the animals was upset at her, annie le, because she was leaving her cage in disorder or dirty. >> it's being reported that there was a text message warning of the day she went missing asking her to meet with him at the lab. >> arrested and brought into court facing a murder charge at just 24, the police chief makes it clear, the lab where they both worked is where the violence was born. >> good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. police issue a warrant for the arrest of girlfriend-turned-stepmother misty croslin's mother. charge? felony forgery. is this a police try to get the truth about haleigh from croslin's mom? well, will the whole croslin family end up behind bars? everybody except, of course, from misty croslin?

>> was haleigh cummings a victim of a drug overdose? according to a letter allegedly from one of stepmom/baby-sitter misty croslin's friend, haleigh died of an overdose to oxycontin and then her body was thrown into a pond. >> probably from one or two pills, she could have died. and it's possible that children sometimes think that's candy and we see sometimes accidental death. >> the letter states that cops were given a sworn affidavit from a friend of misty's, who claims everyone at the party "freaked out" when the toddler overdosed. >> you can use this as a great source as long as you can corroborate it. so the police can go through every little detail and hopefully there will be kernels of information in there that lead to additional roads. >> police say they're completely

ignoring the letter and devying any existing of this alleged sworn photographed misty's friend. >> would love to have a break in this case and we really would not care who it implicates. >> you have made an accusation that croslin was on a drug binge. do you have any evidence to support that claim? >> no, i don't. >> then why did you say it? >> it was just a thought. i mean, maybe she was. maybe she wasn't. >> it was just a thought. so you have nothing to support the claim that she was on a drug binge around the time that haleigh goes missing. >> well, there are people that have been questioned that said she was on a drug binge before haleigh went missing. >> straight out to marlaina schiavo. our producer on the story. a mother being thrown behind bars on a forgery count. you know, very often a forgery's a type of a case that's considered, usually, to be

fairly liked. we save jail beds for child molesters, rapers, drug lord, a forgery, is this a police attempt to get the truth out of misty croslin's mother? tell me what's happening. >> that's what we're thinking, nancy. there's a nationwide pick up warrant for misty's mother on a forgery charge. bond is set at $10,000. now, she can pay that bond in tennessee, where she's currently living or they're going to extradite her back to florida. >> to t.j. hart. program and news director, wsky, 97.3. what more do we know? when you say forgery, what are we talking about? on a check? was it a home mortgage? what was it? was it trying to get money from the government? was it a sale of a house? what was the document she allegedly forged? >> that is the information i've been trying to glean from law enforcement since i found out

about this, this morning and passed it onto our staff here at hln. but it appears that they want her. they want her back in florida and they want her back in i hurry. >> you know, now this is highly unusual. let's unleash the lawyers. everybody, we're seeing just obtained new family photos of little haleigh in our attempt to try to jog somebody's memory. these are from grandmother teresa neves. a friend of our show. she is the paternal grandmother of little haleigh. let's unleash the lawyers. susan moss, new york. joe lawless philadelphia. lawyer, author, prosecutorial misconduct. and out of miami, bradford cohen. sue moss, mommy behind bars, weigh in. >> well, this mother, you remember, came out against misty and said that she believed that her son was telling the truth and that misty was not, with regard to whether she was home alone -- home with the kids that night. maybe they want to put her in

jail so they can ask tough questions about what -- why she came to such a conclusion. there has to be a reason why she turned against misty. >> come on, joe lawless. i know you're on the other side of the fence from me. but i would not use the state's resources to extradite somebody. spend $15,000 to bring somebody home on a $10,000 bond -- charge. sorry. that doesn't make sense to me. so this has got to be a play to get the truth out of her. >> well, we're on the other side of the fence. but remember i was a former prosecutor and where you have a child that's missing and you don't know what's happening you have to bring the witnesses back and it's not a question of how much you spend -- >> right. >> -- it's the result that you can get. >> bradford cowhen? >> i don't know if that's true florida. i have practiced in florida for 14 years. >> all the way from another state, they will extradite on a forgery? >> absolutely. >> i just had one that they took some guy from new york on a third-degree felony and extradited him back to florida.

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a new bombshell to tell you about in the disappearance of florida girl, haleigh cummings. a letter allegedly from a friend of haleigh's stepmother claims the little girl died after ingesting oxycontin. misty croslin-cummings was apparently baby-sitting haleigh the night the girl disappeared. she claims it was after she put haleigh to bed. >> this letter is far-fetched

because haleigh didn't want medicine and oxycontin, i've had to take it. it's a nasty taste i. can't imagine haleigh taking it. >> tommy croslin told the authorities he went to haleigh's home around 10:00 p.m. that night and no answer on the bedroom door. is maybe ten feet away from that room. this is a trailer, not a big place, not sound proof. he's banging away like the cops say he was, there's no way she couldn't have heard that. >> if they had left me alone for six months. i've been the one that's the main focus, they need to move on and look for the right person. >> we would love to have a break in this case. we really do not care who it implicates as long as it brings haleigh back to us. >> straight out to terry schumaker.

this is the attorney for ronald cummings. haleigh's biological father. he's joining us from st. augustine, florida, a well-known attorney in the florida region. terry schumaker, thank you for being with us. terry, with all of this swirling around ronald cummings, every time i speak to him, he is staunched in his support of misty croslin's story. but with her brother behind bars, saying he came to the home that evening and she wasn't there. this is when haleigh's going missing that evening. and now the mom's going behind bars. she said she thinks her daughter is not telling the truth. this certainly had to affect him. >> well, it definitely does affect the way he thinks about what's going on. but you have to remember, the phone call to hank jr. was at about 9:00. and he never asked him to go check on -- check on misty and the kids. he just called to see if misty was at their house. as far as misty's mom and the conversations -- or what she's

told law enforcement, you know, she has told him in the past that she believes what misty said. doesn't think that she has anything to do with it. and so he's really kind of -- he's more concerned with why they're changing their stories now, as to what they were saying previously. >> okay, okay. understood. i want to talk to you about the brother, tommy croslin, who is my understanding lives in the same area where police have just conducted an investigation of sorts when there was a, we believe, false sighting of little haleigh. what can you tell me, is he about to get out of jail? and is that a little bit of a coincidence, that he stayed behind bars on a $10,000 bond on a gun argument with a neighbor, and now that he talks to police and is interrogated and gives this information, now his bond has been cut in half. >> yeah, right, his bond has been lowered. tommy croslin actually got out of jail today. we don't know who posted that bond for him. but he is walking out of jail as

his mother could be walking into jail. >> take a listen to what misty croslin's mother, the mom who now has a felony forgery arrest warrant, on her head had to say about misty croslin's story regarding the night haleigh vanishes. >> yes, i think my heart was holding something back. i think they are both holding something back. that's just in my heart. i love her. if you know anything at all, please tell me. we can work through it. i'll be right there by your side. we'll get through it. just please tell me whatever you're holding back. >> that is from wofl and that is misty croslin's mother hoping that she will tell everything she knows about the night this little girl vanishes. a 5-year-old lying allegedly asleep in her own bed when the girlfriend wakes up, she says the back door's propped wide open.

she doesn't call 911. 911 only called when the dad gets home from the nightshift. to dr. bethany marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "deal breakers. what do you think, bethany? >> there are so many twisted undercurrents in this family. is this the kind dysfunctional family where the mother liked one child, the brother, and didn't like the daughter? did she have an ax to grind against her own daughter? did she think her daughter had a drug abuse problem? it's like one small brush stroke in the big picture that needs be filled in. boy: is that your new car? uh...yeah. boy: cool. thanks. i knew i wanted the new subaru legacy. i went back and forth on the hood scoop. but i'm glad i went for it. the all-new subaru legacy. feel the love.

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what is her story about what happened that night? >> she went to bed. she put haleigh to bed done some laundry and went to bed and woke up to the door propped open. >> there was a brick, like a cinder block. its wi its with -- it was holding the screen door open and that door, that door is always closed. that brick, i've never seen that brick even around there. >> why are you so sure haleigh is still with us? >> because i stand on god's promise that if you pray and believe that he will give you what you pray for.

>> that is paternal grandmother teresa neves, who joined us and is still very staunchly, firmly believing that this little girl is alive. i hope she's right. joining me right now, t.j. ward, he's the president of investigative consultants international. and he gave that voice analysis to the new stepmother, misty croslin. the last person to see little haleigh alive. t.j. ward, thank you for being with us. explain to us what you learned from, i call it a voice stress test. you call it a layered voice analysis, potato/potato, what did you learn? >> caller: well, thank you, nancy. after running the test completely, i can tell you, in fact that misty knows directly what happened to haleigh. misty knows. i mean, it's very much there. her thinking level is abnormal. she's having to think about what she was talking to me about. i went through all of the way through the day that misty -- before she said she laid misty down in the bed, what she didn't do.

and i believe that she knows the direct -- directly where this child is. i really do in the course of this test. and of course she flunked two polygraphs prior to that, so she flunked our test also i can tell you. but there's extreme stress in in test. and this is not voice stress. i will tell you that. it picks up stress but not only that, but i can see that she's hiding information and she's not talking about everything. >> t.j., i know that you're still working on the case. what are you working on now? >> well, i'm trying to, right now, to see if law enforcement will allow me to come to florida and interview the individuals that are involved in this letter. >> right. >> i've contacted tim miller with equusearch. >> hold on just a moment. let's back up. elie, explain what we're talking about when we refer to this letter. i have a copy right here. police have confirmed this is a legitimate theory that they are vetting. >> uh-huh. this is a letter that was written by a friend of misty's,

who's in jail. she wrote this letter to her boyfriend saying, you won't believe what police told me. they were all at a party the night haleigh went missing. she took some oxycontin and died. >> her and junior were sleeping in my queen-size bed and she was sleeping in the tot bed beside her. three, four feet from her, whatever. want to know how fast it took my stiff joints to feel better? one pack. 6 days. that's elations. new elations. clinically proven to improve joint comfort... in as little as six days. drinking it every day keeps it working.

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i just got home from work. my 5-year-old daughter is gone. i need somebody to be here now! >> 3:00 in the morning, i got up and i got up because i had to use the bathroom but i didn't make it to the bathroom. i seen the kitchen light on. and i walked in kitchen and the back door is wide open. >> right beside me on my left is the bed where misty croslin was sleeping. and here on the right we had the bed where little haleigh was sleeping. and you can see it is all but about 3 1/2 feet from each other.

and this is right where misty said she got up and she had to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. >> if i find whoever has my daughter before y'all do, i am killing them. i do not care. i will spend the rest of my life in prison. i am telling you, you can put on recording and i don't care. >> it's okay, sir. we've got them on the way. can you give me any -- what kind of description of her pajamas that she was wearing? >> i don't know. [ bleep ]. >> people think that i have something do with it. if i had something to do with it if i knew where she was we wouldn't be sitting here today. we'd have her. >> everything she says is, crazy. >> i don't know where she is. >> misty can relieve this pressure by telling her attorney that we need to go down to the sheriff's office and really lay out in clear terms what i was doing from 8:00 p.m. till 3:00 a.m. >> we need is for misty to come down here and tell us the truth. >> i have to leave the investigative part of this to law enforcement. because you know, if i go on every whim and on every accusation, then i'm going to be flipping back and forth in my life.

and you know what we stand, you know -- we just stand for haleigh here. we just want haleigh to come home. and i want them to find whoever this is. and i don't care who it is. but we want haleigh to come home. >> back to the lawyers. susan moss, joe lawless, bradford cohen. apparently, joe lawless, the last time she spoke to cops -- and i'm talking about the misty croslin. the girlfriend turned stepmother. the last person to see haleigh alive. she spoke to cops without a lawyer. she voluntarily spoke to cops without a lawyer. what do you make of it? >> well, it's either someone who didn't do anything or someone who thinks they're smart enough to fool the authorities. i don't know. if she were my client i wouldn't have let her speak to the police until i had a better grip of what was going on here and it's just not clear. >> and susan moss, the reality is, although t.j. ward believes firmly in his voice analysis

test to misty croslin, it's not allowed in court. we get calls every night, she's flunked two polys. why can't she have an arrest warrant? that doesn't stack up in court. it's not enough. >> unfortunately it doesn't -- it's not allowed in court because it doesn't pass what we call the doublert or the fry hearing. meaning it has not gained enough reliability within the expert's community to be reliable. so it's not going in. >> bradford cohen, defense attorney joining us out of miami. you know every time i -- well, almost every time i ever try a felony, the defendant's mother will be sitting front and center right at behind him or her, probably crying. holding up a bible in the courtroom. in this case, misty croslin's mother has already come out and publicly stated that she believes her daughter is withholding.

as a matter of fact, before i get your comment, bradford cohen, take a listen to misty croslin's own mother. >> deep down in my heart, yes, i think my daughter is holding something back. deep down, i think they are both holding something back. that's just in my heart. if you know anything at all, please tell me. we can work it through it. i'll be right there by your side. we'll get through it. just please tell me whatever you're holding back. >> okay. bradford cohen, i don't think that she's going to be sitting right behind misty croslin if she ever gets into a courtroom or waving the bible around. of course i'd always get out my own bible and wave it right back at the mother. but long story short, that's not going to help when your own mother is not on your side. >> no. this is like dial "d" for dysfunction. the whole family's -- there's something wrong with the whole family. >> ever think about "t" for truth? >> that's true, too. i mean, it's amazing that everyone in this family has something in terms of some legality going on that the police are arresting the brother, the police are

arresting the mother. anybody who listens to her story doesn't think it makes sense. i don't think that the mom -- >> everybody but ronald cummings. >> i'm shocked. it's amazing that -- maybe it's the love of this woman that is controlling him in terms of not seeing the light, but this story does not make sense. i think everybody except for him understands it doesn't make sense. i don't even know. maybe the mother will be supporting the daughter at a possible trial. who knows what is going on here. certainly she doesn't believe the story. >> to dr. bethany marshall. psychoanalyst. author of "deal breakers." what do you think about the divide within the family? >> well, it's very typical in dysfunctional families that the parent chooses one child to love and one child to be unsupportive of. the mother may support her son but not the daughter. >> has it crossed you attorneys' minds that maybe she doesn't believe the daughter's story and it has nothing to do with tangled up snakes in their heads, as you would suggest that she really doesn't believe her story.

>> nancy, could i suggest that the mother says, i think she's hiding something. then she says, i think they're hiding something. and maybe the mother has some culpability in this case. and because of that, she's trying to distance herself from both of them. in a sense, saving her own skin at her daughter's expense. not that she has overt culpability but that she's been contributing to a pattern of neglect and she does not want that exposed. >> okay, we are talking about the mother of misty croslin who spoke to local affiliate, wofl. and in that interview she states very clearly she believes her own daughter is hiding something. take a listen. this is what we're talking about. >> deep down in my heart, yes, i think that my daughter's holding something back. i think they are both holding something back. that's just in my heart. i'm going to tell her i love her and if you know anything at all, please tell me. i mean, we can work through it. i'll be right there by your side.

we'll get through it. but just please tell me, whatever you're holding back. >> that is from wofl. to tom shamshack, former police chief and now private investigator and instructor at boston university. is this a police ploy? the brother has been thrown behind bars. his bond was cut in half once he spoke to police in the late-night interrogation. and now croslin's mother has a warrant for her arrest on her head. >> good evening, nancy. nancy, this is a typical police investigative measure. to bring people in. they're a captive audience. and now they can be confronted with inconsistencies and really drilled about the matter at hand. and here, i'm not surprised whatsoever that law enforcement is reaching out and using every opportunity to isolate this family and to, again, drill them for information. >> and very quickly, to dr. jennifer schrubb, pediatrician

and editor of "baby and child health." would one oxycontin kill a 39-pound little girl or two oxycontin pills? >> yeah, actually it could, nancy. oxycontin, 7.5 times stronger than codeine. even the smallest tablet could cause a child like that to stop breathing and die. >> editor of "baby and child help." right now as we go to break, a big welcome to joy behar coming to hln. this is last night's launch party for joy's show. president ken was there. don't worry, i had already bathed the twins. put on their pjs. they were home asleep with daddy while mommy celebrated with joy and her new show. kickoff, this tuesday september 29. 9:00 p.m., sharp. welcome, friend. with bltsds

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you know the only person who really truly knows the motive in this crime is the suspect. what made him do what he did -- and we may not know till trial, we may never know. >> police began to follow raymond clark iii just after yale graduate student annie le went missing. according to the detective's documentation, on saturday four days after le went missing, clark spent time with his family in cromwell, on sunday he went down to new haven to play softball and detectives watched from the stands. on monday detectives decided to be more overt. that's when clark seemed to realize he was being watched. and began to turn off his lights and pull down his apartment shades. the next night police took him from his middleton apartment to meriddon where he submitted dna. wednesday he spent time in a cromwell hotel with family. morning of the 17th clark was arrested and arraigned in new haven superior court and transferred to macdougal walker

correctional institution. >> right now straight out to jean casarez, legal correspondent with "in session." jean, the plumber, the plumber? rosy the plumber is back and she's down there in the washroom at yale's university -- yale university's research building and she, the plumber, finds evidence in a murder case? what happened to the police? >> well, it sounds like they had to have a plumber go to that lab room. that's right, nancy, the investigation continues in new haven. new haven police were back at the lab building. and a plumber had to go in with them, and including forensic technicians to find what they are not saying on the record as evidence, but employees at the lab building are telling the new haven register that it may be medical scrubs that were found shoved down and inside a drain in the wash basin area. >> well, jean casarez, i can guarantee you this, it's not just medical scrubs.

those scrubs have got to have something on them, something incriminating on them. because why else would someone shove them down a drain? >> definitely. and, nancy, can medical scrubs even be shoved down a drain? i think that's a question, too. and another question, nancy, there could be a murder weapon in this case. she died from traumatic asphyxiation by neck compression. we don't know if that was manual, by hand, or by some ligiture or something else that could possibly be found somewhere. >> are you suggesting that this could be a ligiture for the strangulation of 24-year-old annie le? >> i think that anything is possible but it's something that something physically had to be able to get down a drain, which can be quite narrow. >> let me ask you this. let me go to our producer on the story from the very beginning. rupa, did police call the plumber? or did the plumber come because they were having a problem with the drain? >> nancy, it isn't very clear

why or how, who caused police come but they were there all day long, according to employees of the amistad building and when i spoke with police yesterday they made it very clear that it was considered a crime scene area that they were searching, and this is the washroom of the basement where the animals were kept. where annie le's body was found. >> back to jean casarez, legal correspondent with "in session." okay, jean, help me visualize this. this is the bathroom or the washroom where, and what do you know, jean, did the police call the plumber? can i give them credit for that? or was the plumber called because they had a problem with the drain? >> let's look at the facts. we reported yesterday that the forensic investigators and the new haven police were there at the lab in the wash basin area. we didn't hear anything about a plumber, but today we're hearing about a plumber. so common sense tells me, nancy,

they had to call the plumber. >> well, what about this, jean. didn't police close it in, in the crime scene investigation before yesterday and then they came back? >> yes, they did. they did and when they came back, nancy, it was open. >> hey, hey, i trumped you, jean. because i get what you're saying. but police had already finished the crime scene investigation. >> that's what they said. >> they left. everything back to normal. people could go in and out of the building. that tells me somebody had a problem with the drain in the washroom where this murder may have taken place. and -- and that led police and plumber back out. police missed it. that's what it says to me. >> possibly, but what if someone had trouble with the drain and was smart enough to call police instead of a plumber and the police and investigators came out first? >> well, i agree. but my point, jean casarez, is you'd think in every murder investigation, and, jean, you've covered so many, when there is a bathroom around, you check the drains, you check the shower.

you check the sinks. you check the commode. if there's a washing machine, you check the washing machines. why? because if you flush, dispose, shove bloody evidence down a drain, blood can be obtained. dna can be obtained out of a drain. jean? >> that is very true, nancy. but, nancy, how long was that basement open for people to go in and out? it was not designated a crime scene. when it finally was designated a crime scene, it was reopened very quickly, nancy. how long would it take to check all of those things you're saying? i don't think it was done. >> i don't think it was done either, rupa. what can you tell me? >> basically what we know, nancy, is when annie le first went missing, we know that people were going in and out of this later that was later named a crime scene for five or six days. now they were still able to pull out evidence, amazing evidence that dna evidence that allowed

them to make an arrest. so the police have always said that this investigation has been ongoing and open and they are continuing even after the arrests -- >> rupa, i appreciate that. however, that's not my question. susan moss, joe lawless, bradford cohen. susan moss, do you get where i'm going? they finished the investigation. they left. the crime lab techs, the crime scene tech, the police, they left. they open the building back up for general use. then suddenly, evidence is found by somebody shoved down a drain in the room, in the washroom where the mice cages were cleaned. that's what the suspect did for a living in that washroom. >> they missed it. just like as soon as they knew that this woman was gone and the last place she was was this lab, they didn't immediately close down this lab and search every inch of that huge building. once again they made a mistake, but this guy, there's nothing dumber than leaving evidence that could be found by a plumber.

i mean this guy may work at yale but he's no genius. he's going to convict himself because of all of the clues he's leaving behind. >> listen, joe lawless, i am the police, the sheriff's biggest supporter. they are the ones that found the evidence that led to an arrest in this case, okay? however, what i'm worried about, this is what i'm worried about, the crime scene was closed down. it was reopened. now they find evidence shoved down a drain? at trial the defense can argue the scene was so contaminated, so open to the general public, anybody could have done that. it may not be able to be linked back to the defendant. >> and that's precisely what's going to happen. they're going to argue one of two things. either the real killer tried to plant evidence that is in some way related to clark to try to frame him, or the police took evidence that links clark to the scene and planted it to try to bolster an otherwise weak case.

>> bradford cohen, weigh in. >> yeah, 100%. he's 100% correct. the problem is that they missed this. it's very obvious to me that they missed it and that's the one place that they should go look immediately is the drains, the bathrooms, everything you said. i actually agree with you for this one time. but don't take advantage of it. >> i will not take it as a complement. >> what do you make of the cleanup that they apparently did. >> it may be that he was at some unconscious level thinking of killing this girl, but after this rage attack, he had to cover it up. four of the risk factors substance abuse, vials against women and loss of control and inequity. those are the four risk factors, based on your report, it seems like he has all four.

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you see how she's been. she keeps repeating and forgetting things. i mean, sometimes she gets irritated easily. she's fine. dad, she's having trouble doing everyday things. dad doesn't seem to think anything's wrong. something's not right. i've never seen her like this before. i spoke to her doctor. she seems to think mom's just getting older. i wasn't sure what to say. i know she's getting worse and i want to do something about it. announcer: go to youcanbetheone.com if you're seeing changes in a loved one that you think could be alzheimer's disease. you'll get screening tools to talk to your doctor about memory, behavior, or everyday problems you're seeing and help you move closer to a diagnosis. you'll also learn about an alzheimer's prescription treatment option. be the one who makes the most of your time together, go to youcanbetheone.com.

this was not a street crime. it was not a domestic crime. it was a workplace crime. >> police looking into whether clark's attitude may have led to a deadly confrontation. >> annie le was strangled to death in the lab where she worked. clark who also worked there, is charged with doing it and trying to hide her body behind a wall in the lab's basement. >> new haven police chief says his detectives had eyes on 24-year-old raymond clark as soon as yale police turned over annie le's investigation over to them. he's accused of strangling le and then stuffing her 90-pound body into a basement wall. >> back to jean casarez, legal correspondent, "in session."

about the allegations he was using steroids, what do you know? >> reporter: well, it is being reported. "the national enquirer" is reporting that he allegedly was taking steroids at the time that he committed this crime. allegedly. roid rage would be the effect of that and we've seen that before and it's where there's outbursts of violence. no confirmation of it, the defense is not responding, but when you look at him in court, the first thing we notice is muscles. >> to dr. jennifer hsu out of atlanta division, what effect do steroids have on someone, if he was taking them? >> the first thing jean mentioned is that it can increase your muscle mass. there can also be an increase in body hair as well as growth of vocal cord. voice becomes deeper. also things like acne, hormonal changes. and what she mentioned was roid rage. in some people, steroids can cause things like violence, aggression, suicidal behavior,

manic behavior, and that's especially true if they're on really high doses of steroids and suddenly stop them. >> what about it, dr. bethany? >> well, also, obsessional paranoia, the persistent belief that someone's very existence on this planet is threatening your well-being. they're messing up the mouse cages, they're going to get married. they're doing you wrong, so you'll have to wipe them out. >> everyone, let's stop and remember army private first class caleb ruskin, 24, knoxville, illinois, killed, iraq. awarded bron star purple heart. a volunteer. loved banjo, fishing, hunting, motorcycles. wanted to be a firefighter. leaves behind parents tammy and marcy. brothers lance and taylor. caleb lufkin, american hero. thanks to our guests, but especially you. see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. until then, good night, friend. -- captions by vitac --

i'm a.j. hammer in new york. this is your "showbiz tonight" newsbreak. just some of what we'll be covering for you on "showbiz tonight" at the top of the hour. the explosive mackenzie phillips incest debate. today's overwhelming reaction to mackenzie claiming her father had sex with her. mackenzie back on tv this morning, revealing even more. members of mackenzie's own family calling her a liar. even oprah winfrey is under attack. plus, the provocative debate, should mackenzie have kept quiet? also, it's the great cougar debate. courteney cox's new show "cougar town" debuts and gets men and women arguing everywhere. why do younger women get slam d slammed -- older women get slammed for dating younger men, but

younger men are considered cool when they date older wom-- youn women?