. welcome back to "prime news". a huge mix up and a fertility clinic implanted an embryo into the wrong woman's womb. caroline savage gave birth to somebody else's baby. it was her last chance to carry her own child. she never thought she would be a surrogate for complete strangers. the baby boy just arrived and going home with his biological parents. both of these families have been put through so much. what's next? here's what the biological mother told the nbc "the today show".

>> we've talked about having e-mail contact and so forth, but we'll see how we all feel. we'll keep in contact. we have no expectations of them and they don't have of us. the nice thing is we've been able to work together on this and unfortunately this has been a terrible thing that's happened to two good families. we're doing the best we can for the health of this baby. >> and back with us former prosecutor robin sacks and psychologist cooper lawrence. cooper, wow, i can't even imagine. i know some people who have been through the surrogate program. others have adopted. this is nightmare on anybody's language. how do you deal with this? >> well, there's a lot to deal with because the normal milestones that you go through as a mother, the pregnancy, every aspect of it, you know, has been robbed from these people so even though they are technically the biological parents she didn't go through the process so on an emotional

level it may be difficult for her. it's hard to bond with a child initially. it may take her more time to bond with this child even though technically she's the biological mother she didn't go through the process of having the baby. but that's not here nor there because a lot of times they do recover, women do recover from that. the bigger picture is if they are going to keep both families in this chimed's life. that's much more confusing. >> what would you suggest, briefly? >> just don't see any reason for it. i think for a child, a lot of the research we have now is not good. not that adoption isn't good i want to be clear about that. but we have found that children that are adopted that spend time what we consider adoptive parents peernts that are not the biological parents have a harder time in school and have more psychological problems. why open the door for that. >> robin, from a legal standpoint, this is a mess and

clearly potential legal action here. what would you suggest or in the spirit of healing would you leave it alone? >> well, there's a lot of different potential legal issues here. first of all, you have a potential civil lawsuit by both families that could sue the fertility clinic and that's going to have potentially consequence on how fertility clinics do business in the future and that would be the place where both of those families should go for financial reward. they are not likely to sue each other because this was a mistak on behalf of the clinic. then the other aspect, the family court becomes involved in this type of a case. is this a case that you'll see and this is the worse fear of the biological family right now is that the surrogate family will have at some point end up trying to assert some sort of custody rites. >> it does seem, both families, incidentally have previous children, and it seems that the surrogate family considers this a gift or a blessing, and were

kind enough to step aside with no hassles. robin, you're suggesting they may have second thoughts down the road or that's the fear of the biological family? >> yeah. i don't think -- i have though reason to believe that's necessarily going to happen in this particular case but i'm sure that's a fear from the biological standpoint. when we look at a case like this you start wondering if you're setting up a time to visit and create that relationship when it's not healthy and in the best interest of the child and you made a decision to make a gift why else would you do it? >> cooper, i know many people become surrogates, but these folks were unwith itting surrogates and you go through an entire pregnancy and having children it's a wonderful time in your family's life to experience that pregnancy along with the mom to be. this family was really short changed in a horrible way. >> they were. they are going to go through @@ some emotional turmoil as a result. they may not want children for a

while. they may feel angry and hurt. the bottom line is about this child and what's best for this child. if anybody just had a surrogate unwith unwittingly or not, the idea of a surrogate is to carry the baby and then goes to live with the family. so, i think yes it's very difficult on these people and i recommend they go through therapy because all those months of pregnancy and the expectations -- i can even imagine what that woman is going through at the moment. the bottom line is what's best for the child. what's best for the child is being with the biological family. >> when you talked about the biological mom not yet having a bond isn't it similar to an adoption situation where an adoption parent doesn't have the bond but you form one later? >> some do, some don't. what's interesting in recent study that says age is a factor. so the young ter mom, the less

likely they are going to bond. it matters the age of the mother. >> robin sacks former prosecutor, author and cooper lawrence,cy clo gift. thank you both for joining us. >> thank you.úú >> thank you.@@ >> nasty words directed at president obama. some critics mouthing off right to his face. is it his policy or racism.@ everybody from jimmy carter to bill crosby has jumped in. it's the next debate you don't want to miss. hln is excited to welcome joy behar to our lineup. it premiers tuesday 9:00 p.m. eastern. check her out right now, cnn.com/joy. wait until this show is over ana then check her out. be right back. that's elations. new elations. clinically proven to improve joint comfort... in as little as six days. drinking it every day keeps it working. elations has clinically proven levels... of glucosamine and chondroitin, in a powerful form that's more absorbable... than joint supplement pills.

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eggland's best. in my kitchen, i love eggland's best. that's why they're the only eggs... i make for my son. the chef. eggland's best. the better egg. is it about race or policy? do some people really dislike the president because he's african-american? it's a huge national debate which really took off after former president jimmy carter made this statement. >> i think people that are guilty of that kind of personal attack against obama have been influenced to a major degree by a belief that he should not be president because he happens to be african-american. it's a racist attitude.

>> the president tried to lighten things up. he joked about it with david letterman earlier this week. >> first of all, i think it's important to realize that i was actually black before the election. [ applause ] so -- really. it's true. this is true. >> how long have you been a black man >> that's pretty good. i've been black a long time myself too. this debate had created a lot of attention across the country. joining me now, tim wise and joe hicks national advisory council member of project 21. all right, gentlemen, let's talk about this. let's first talk about what president carter said. joe, first i want to know do you agree with any of what former president jimmy carter said? >> it's good to see tim again.

i don't agree with what jimmy carter said. he's trying to get inside a lot of people's heads, it might be the kind of view he has of the world. he may be reflecting on some old segregation views he once held before he became president. but it's not fair to try to get inside the heads of white people. >> did you just call jimmy carter a racist, joe >> no, i didn't. i said early in jimmy carter's life he was linked to segregation views. i don't claim he's a bigot or a racist. he's clearly not. let's be clear what i'm saying. what i'm arguing he's trying to get inside the heads of a lot of good white americans and claim they are viewing this president and the situation through racist eyes and i think the president was right in diffusing it listen clearly the implication was i was black before election, a lot of white voters in fact voted for me. so what does that say? >> tim, what's your take?

>> let's talk what president carter said. he didn't say all of the opposition or most of it was about race. ef-talking about most of the over the top rhetoric. at the 9-12 rally when you carry posters with the president like a witch doctor with a bone through his nose that's racism. if you have a sign that says go back to kenya, that's racism. we've been pointing out some of the rhetoric coming from the top of the conservative food chain, rush limbaugh, glen beck, mark thompson, beck saying that the health care bill is really just about repar ratiations for back people. that doesn't mean every white person opposed to obama is responding to the racism that's being perpetrated but that rhetoric is out there. >> i hear what you're saying and

i hear what you're saying specifically about what president carter said but the way some people took it, let me read a statement that michael steele made, chairman of the republican national committee. this is how he and a lot of people took it. characterizing american's disapproval of president obama's policy as being based on race is an outrage and a troubling sign about the length democrats will go to to disparage all who disagree with them. playing the race cards show democrats are willing to deal from the bottom of the deck. some people say he played the race card period and now no one can criticize president obama without being seen as a racist. plain and simple. >> the problem is white folks have and black conservatives assist in this have a race card of their own. it's the ace of denial and trumps whatever race card folks of color have. they are deliberately misinterpreting the statements. i've been on several shows and talked about this. the first sentence out of my

mouth is i realize not all the opposition to the president is about racism yet i'll receive literally hundreds of emails from people who ignore that part and only want to assume that i @ called them all racists or president carter did. they are misrepresenting what we say. >> joe, i want you to respond? >> tim, you're starting to irritate me a bit and i like you. i used to run the southern christian leadership conference. i was a left marksixist marchinn this country. this notion of looking at people protesting in the streets about politics and im bunch e them with racism is what leftists are going to to try to lift up rocks and prop up their agenda by claiming racist still exists. tim, argue your an unconscious racist. that's an argument that a lot on the left make. >> i got to wrap it up.

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a legendary show biz family torn apart. backlash over actress mackenzie phillips revolting allegations of incest.

saying she had consensual sex with her own father.úú today her sister came forward saying her father would never be capable of doing such things. here's what started it all. phillips oprah to promote her tell all book. >> woke up that night from a blackout to find myself having sex with my own father. your father is supposed to protect you. your father is supposed to protect you. >> oprah invited her back on her show today. she showed up with her sister china.@@@@ exclusively joining us, bill cleary a life long friend of john phillips and jane velez-mitchell. thanks to both of you for joining us. mr. cleary, first to you. you knew john phillips well. for many years.

>> extremely well. >> when you heard these allegations made by mackenzie phillips on national television what went through your mind? >> i was totally shocked. this is crazy and insane. i don't know anyone, any junky i've known never has told the truth. it goes back to that. mackenzie has been in rehab about ten times. it's a thing where she never gets clean, she just goes in and learns a quick phrases and comes back out. >> did you ever see their interaction? did you know mackenzie well and see them together >> i held her in my arms the day she was born. i've seen them together her whole life and john's whole life. >> her allegations went beyond the sexual molestation or a relationship i guess she called it. she said that her father was the first person to inject her with drugs. do you believe that >> she's been saying that for years and i have nothing to base that on, that i could say that

that's correct or incorrect. i don't know. i know john used drugs and john was using heroin at one point in his life. he started using when he was 32 or 33 when went to new york to work on a broadway show that he had written. but other than that, i don't know what went on between them as far as drug usage. >> jane velez-mitchell, from the standpoint of a recovering alcoholic, when you come clean, so to speak, and you make these revelations, many people will say i don't believe you. which is what we're hearing here. what's your take on this? >> well, my take is if she's not actually clean and sober, as the gentleman who's just on said, it's very, very likely that she could be lying because addicts lie. they make big lies. and they lie all the time. however, if she is clean and sober, she may be telling the truth. but here's my problem with it. it was just over a year ago that she was arrested on some pretty serious drug charges involving

cocaine and heroin. so if she is sober, she's very newly sober, perhaps at the very most a year. this is not the kind of thing you're supposed to be doing in early sobriety. you're not supposed to do anything that's very high-profile or dramatic or bring attention to yourself because you're supposed to be focused on staying sober. so i question that. i question why this isn't being done in some kind of private behind closed doors therapeutic, family therapy session. and the other thing i question is motive. yes, she has a book out. he-y she's doing a tv show. but there's a deeper motive perhaps. and that is the anger, the rage that the child of the alcoholic or the addict feels toward the alcoholic addict parent. and i describe this in my book -- >> jane week, going to get to this in a minute. we havar much more. stay with us. pnip]p]uuuuuuuuuuu