welcome back to "prime news".úx i'm filling in for mike galanos. a huge mix up and a fertility clinic implanted an embryo into the wrong woman's womb. caroline savage gave birth to somebody else's baby. it was her last chance to carry her own child. she never thought she would be a surrogate for complete strangers. the baby boy just arrived and he's going home with his biological parents. both of these families have been put through so much. what's next? here's what the biological mother told the nbc "today" show. >> we've talked about having e-mail contact and so forth, but

we'll see how we all feel. we'll always keep in contact. we have no expectations of them and they don't have of us. the nice thing is we've been able to work together on this and unfortunately this has been a terrible thing that's happened to two good families. we're doing the best we can for the health of this baby. >> and back with us former prosecutor robin sacks and psychologist cooper lawrence. cooper, wow, i can't even imagine. i know some people who have been through the surrogate program. others have adopted. this is nightmare on anybody's language. how do you deal with this? >> well, there's a lot to deal with because the normal milestones that you go through as a mother, the pregnancy, apgar score, every aspect of it, you know has been robbed from these people so even though they are technically the biological parents she didn't go through

the process so on an emotional level it may be difficult for her. it's hard to bond with a child initially. it may take her more time to bond with this child even though technically she's the biological mother she didn't go through the process of having the baby. but that's not here nor there because a lot of times they do recover, women do recover from that. the bigger picture is if they are going to keep both families in in child's life. that's much more confusing. >> what would you suggest, briefly? >> just don't see any reason for it. i think for a child, a lot of the research we have now is not good. not that adoption isn't good i want to be clear about that. but we have found that children that are adopted that spend time what we consider adoptive parents, parents that are not the biological parents have a harder time in school and have more psychological problems. why even open the door for that? >> robin, from a legal standpoint, this is a mess and clearly there's potential legal

action here. what would you suggest or in the spirit of healing would you leave it alone? >> well, there's a lot of different potential legal issues here. first of all, you have a potential civil lawsuit by both families that could sue the fertility clinic and that's going to have potentially consequences on how fertilityññ clinics do business in the future and that would be the place where both of those families should go for financial reward. they are not likely to sue each other because this was a mistake on behalf of the clinic. then the other aspect, the family court becomes involved in this type of a case. is this a case that you'll see and this is the worse fear of the biological family right now is that the surrogate family is it going to at some point trying to assert some sort of custody rights. >> it does seem, both families, incidentally have previous children, and it seems that the surrogate family considers this a gift or a blessing, and were kind enough to step aside with

no hassles. robin, you're suggesting they may have second thoughts down the road or that's the fear of the biological family? >> yeah. i don't think -- i have no@@ reason to believe that's úp necessarily going to happen in this particular case but i'm sure that's a fear from the biological standpoint. when we look at a case like this you start wondering if you're setting up a time to visit and create that relationship when it's not healthy and in the best interest of the child and you made a decision to make a gift why else would you do it? >> cooper, i know many people become surrogates, but these folks were unwitting surrogates and you go through an entire pregnancy and having children it's a wonderful time in your family's life to experience that pregnancy along with the mom to be. this family was really short changed in a horrible way. >> they were. they are going to go through some emotional turmoil as a result. they may not want to have

children for a while. they may feel angry and hurt. the bottom line is about this child and what's best for this child. if anybody just had a surrogate unwittingly or not, the idea of a surrogate is to carry the baby for you and they have no other connection other than that and then the baby goes to live with the family. so, i think yes it's very difficult on these people and i recommend they go through therapy because all those months of pregnancy and the expectations, i can't even imagine what that woman is going through at the moment. the bottom line is what's best for the child. what's best for the child is being with the biological family. >> cooper, we only have 20 seconds. you talked about the biological mother not yet having a bond, isn't it similar to an adoption situation where an adoption parent doesn't have the bond but you form one later? >> some do, some don't. what's interesting in recent study that says age is a factor. so the younger the mom, the less likely they are going to bond.

it matters the age of the mother. >> robin sacks former prosecutor, author and cooper úú lawrence, author of "the cult of celebrity." >> nasty words directed at president obama. some critics mouthing off right to his face. is it his policy or racism. everybody from jimmy carter to bill cosby has jumped in on this. it's the next debate you don't want to miss. hln is excited to welcome joy behar to our lineup. it premiers tuesday 9:00 p.m. eastern. check her out right now, pú cnn.com/joy. wait until this show is over and then check her out. be right back. (announcer) when you buy a car

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eggland's best. in my kitchen, i love eggland's best. that's why they're the only eggs... i make for my son. the chef. eggland's best. the better egg. is it about race or policy? do some people really dislike the president because he's african-american? it's a huge national debate which really took off after former president jimmy carter made this statement. >> i think people that are guilty of that kind of personal attack against obama have been influenced to a major degree by a belief that he should not be president because he happens to be african-american. it's a racist attitude. >> the president tried to lighten things up.

he joked about it with david letterman earlier this week. >> first of all, i think it's important to realize that i was actually black before the election. [ applause ] so -- really. it's true. this is true. >> how long have you been a black man? >> that's pretty good. i've been black a long time myself too. this debate had created a lot of attention across the country. joining me now, tim wise and joe hicks national advisory council member of project 21. all right, gentlemen, let's talk about this. let's first talk about what president carter said. joe, first i want to know do you agree with any of what former president jimmy carter said? >> it's good to see tim again.

i don't agree with what jimmy carter said. he's trying to get inside a lot of people's heads, it might be the kind of view he has of the world. he may be reflecting on some old segregation views he once held before he became president. but it's not fair to try to get inside the heads of white people. >> did you just call jimmy carter a racist, joe? >> no, i didn't. i said early in jimmy carter's life he was linked to segregation views. i don't claim he's a bigot or a racist. he's clearly not. let's be clear what i'm saying. what i'm arguing he's trying to get inside the heads of a lot of good white americans and claim they are viewing this president and the situation through racist eyes and i think the president was right in defusing it, listen, clearly the implication was i was black before election, a lot of white voters in fact voted for me. so what does that say? >> tim, what's your take? >> let's talk what president

carter said. he didn't say all of the opposition or most of it was about race. he was talking about some of the most rit rea olic rhetoric. at the 9-12 rally when you carry posters with the president like a witch doctor with a bone through his nose that's racism. if you have a sign that says go back to kenya, that's racism. that's what he was talking about. most of us that raised the issue have been pointing out, that some the rhetoric coming from the top of the conservative food chain, rush limbaugh, glen beck, mark thompson, beck saying that the health care bill is really just about reparations for back people. that's obviously nonsense but a good way to provoke white racial anger. that doesn't mean every white person opposed to obama is responding to the racism that's being perpetrated but that @@ rhetoric is out there. that's what president carter was talking about and he's right. >> i hear what you're saying and

i hear what you're saying specifically about what president carter said but the way some people took it, let me read a statement that michael steele made, chairman of the republican national committee. this is how he and a lot of people took it. characterizing american's disapproval of president obama's policies as being based on race is an outrage and a troubling sign about the length democrats will go to to disparage all who disagree with them. playing the race cards show democrats are willing to deal from the bottom of the deck. some people see it as that he played the race card period and now no one can criticize president obama without being seen as a racist. plain and simple. >> the problem is white folks also have and black conservatives assist in this, have a race card of their own. it's the ace of denial and trumps whatever race card folks of color have. they are deliberately misinterpreting the statements. i've been on several cnn shows and talked about this. the first sentence out of my mouth is i realize not all the

opposition to the president is about racism yet i'll receive literally hundreds of e-mails from people who ignore that part and only want to assume that i called them all racists or @@ president carter did. they are intentionally misrepresenting what we see. >> joe, i want you to respond? >> tim, you're starting to irritate me a bit and i like you. i used to run the southern christian leadership conference. i was a leftist marxist marching in this country. this notion of looking at people protesting in the streets about politics and them with racism is what leftists ar@ going to to try to lift up rock@ and prop up their agenda by claiming racist still exists. tim, people look at you and argue are you an unconscious racist. that's an argument that a lot on

the left make. >> i got to wrap it up. great discussion. clearly we have to give you both more time. for more on what matters check out the october issue of "essence" magazine. coming up, mackenzie phillips' shocking story of incest. her little sister is coming forward. what she says may floor you. welcome to our mcdonald's. yours? really? it's been our dream since we were kids. uh, that long, huh? why not? mcdonald's really supports entrepreneurs. they spend over $5 billion dollars... with businesses in communities like ours. you two really know your stuff. we've done our homework! time for breakfast./ mom! not in front of the customers. wake up! wake up! - i just had the most amazing dream! - me too! opportunities inspiring big dreams. mcdonald's.

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a legendary show biz familyú being torn apart. new backlash overact res mackenzie backlash over actress mackenzie phillips revolting allegations of incest. saying she had consensual sex with her own father. today her sister bijou came forward saying her father would never be capable of doing such things. here's what started it all. phillips oprah to promote her tell all book. >> woke up that night from a blackout to find myself having sex with my own father. your father is supposed to protect you. your father is supposed to protect you. >> oprah invited her back on her show today. she showed up with her sister chin chynna exclusively joining us, bill cleary a life long friend of john phillips and jane velez-mitchell.

author of "i want." thanks to both of you for joining us. mr. cleary, first to you. you knew john phillips well. for many years. >> extremely well. since she was 3 years old. >> when you heard these allegations made by mackenzie phillips on national television what went through your mind? >> i was totally shocked. this is crazy and insane. i don't know anyone, any junky i've ever known has never told the truth. it goes back to that. mackenzie has been in rehab about ten times. it's a thing where she never gets clean, she just goes in and learns a quick phrases and comes back out. >> did you ever see their interaction? did you know mackenzie well and see them together? >> i held her in my arms the day she was born. i've seen them together her whole life and john's whole life. >> her allegations went beyond the sexual molestation or a

relationship i guess she called it. she said that her father was the first person to inject her with drugs. do you believe that? >> she's been saying that for years and i have nothing to base that on, s correct or incorrect. i don't know, i know john used drugs and i know john was using heroin at one point in his life. he started using when he was 32 or 33 when he went to new york to work on a broadway show. other than that, i don't know what went on between them as far as drug usage. >> jane velez-mitchell from the standpoint of a recovering alcoholic, when you come clean, so to speak, and you make these revelations, many people will say i don't believe you. what is your take on this? >> well, my take is, if she's not actually clean and sober, as the gentleman who was just on, it's very likely show could be likely because addicts lie, they

make big lies and lie all the time. however, if she is clean and sober, she may be telling the truth. but here's my problem with it, it was just over a year ago that she was arrested on some serious drug charges involving cocaine and heroin. this is not the kind of thing you're supposed to be doing in early sobriety. you're not supposed to do anything that's traumatic or bring attention to yourself because you're supposed to be focused on staying sober. so i question why this isn't being done behind closed doors, family therapy session. and the other thing i question is knowtive. yes, she has a book out and doing a tv show. but there's a deeper motive and that is the anger and rage that the child of the alcoholic or the addict feels toward the alcoholic/addict parent. >> jane, we'll get to this in a minute. much more of mackenzie phillips. stay with us.

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tonight, a family torn apart. mackenzie phillips back on oprah again with more head-spinning claims about incestuous sex, drug addiction and rape. this time she has ammo. she's bringing her sister, who's now backing up mackenzie's claims of incest with her dad. but other members of mackenzie's clan are lining up against her, charging, you lie. "issues" has exclusive information from the family of john phillips. and a double dose of evil. blood-soaked walls, beaten dogs, and day care? a horrific dogfighting ring, busted up out of all places a child care center in illinois. what? ten children taken out during a police raid.

cops say these poor dogs were tortured and fighting to the death right next to a children's swing set. who were the sickos who thought dogfighting and day care were a good mix? also, reliving a long nightmare. jaycee dugard says she will take the stand against phillip garrido. she wants to testify against the monster who's accused of holding her captive for 18 long years. this could force her to reveal every gut-wrenching and sordid sexual detail in front of the whole world. all while this poor woman is trying to rebuild her life. tonight's big issue, does the criminal justice system victimize rape survivors twice. plus, a celebrity superstar busted for allegedly skipping out on his hotel bill. randy quaid and his wife were arrested in texas, accused of owing a hotel $10,000. that's a lot of trips to the mini bar. and check out these mug shots. quaid claims the bill is paid, and says the hotel's doing this all for publicity.

who do you believe? "issues" starts now. shocking and revolting actions ignite a family feud. the whole world knows this by now. mckenzie phillips says she had sex with her own father, rock legend, john phillips. she payments a sickening question claiming daddy pulled her into a frightening world of drugs and forbidden sex. she reveals what she calls her darkest secrets to, who else, oprah. >> i woke up that night from a blackout to find myself having sex with my own father. your father is supposed to protect you. your father is supposed to protect you. not [ bleep ] you. >> mackenzie's horrifying allegations are dividing her showbiz family. especially since john is dead. and he cannot defend himself. stepmom, michelle phillips says, you lie. take with a grain of salt anything said by somebody who

had a needle in their arm for 35 years. mackenzie was back on oprah today, but this time sister china came along who backed her up. >> i'm proud of my sister. you know, am i exceedingly joyful that my family secret that i told maybe my therapist, my husband, and my very best friend in the world know now, a platform for everybody to know? it's very upsetting. >> so you've known for a while. >> i've known for a long time. >> mackenzie's other sister, actress beju phillips is also speaking out. she lived alone with her dad since she was 3 years old. and you will not believe what she has to say. are these horrific claims true? will we ever know? mackenzie says she has a handful of people who know it happened. but is she trustworthy? just last year, mackenzie got busted for heroin and cocaine. we know addicts lie. is she sober now?

straight out to my fabulous panel, criminal defense attorney mike eiglarsh. cnn legal analyst, lisa bloom. psychiatrist dr. dale archer. curtis sliwa, founder of guardian angels. also talking only to us tonight, the widow of john phillips. thank you so much for joining us on the phone. i understand that you did not want to be on camera. but you still felt that you had to speak out to clear john's name. what was your reaction when you first heard these claims? do you believe them or not? >> under no circumstances do i believe this. i always knew john. and i always knew mackenzie. considering the source, mackenzie phillips admitted that she's a liar to oprah. >> why do you think, if you believe that she lied, and let's face it, none of us knows what happens behind closed doors. nobody really is going to know, because he's dead.

and how can we verify what she's saying? but if you believe that she is lying, why would she lie about something like this? >> she's been through a couple of years of hard times, a tough life. and she just is putting out the book right after that. like you said, on the jim morrow show, that it might be the anger. i can add drugs and money into it. and -- drugs and money? >> yes. because she is making money at it. listen to this. if you take a couple of pages out of the book that she refers to john and allegations she has against john, that book would have never been sold. >> well, yeah, of course. the reason it's a best seller is she's saying she had sex with her famous father, and he shot her up, and he incested her. these are horrifying claims. >> and john cannot defend himself. that's why i'm on the phone with

you. i want to defend him, speak for him. i know john was -- >> how long were you married to him? >> i was married to john for six years, and he was sober for like five and a half years out of it. and he was -- he loved his family. he would do anything possible. >> was he a drug addict and alcoholic? >> when i was married to him, no. >> but previous to that? in other words, he sobered up? what years were you married to him? >> i was married to him from 1995 up until 2001 when he passed. and he was -- >> so he finally got sober? he finally got sober, which is wonderful news. did he ever say to you, i have problems with mackenzie? boy, she's trouble? or something really awful happened? >> john was a very honest person, not like mackenzie says, he was a liar. he was never a liar. even wrote a book about himself a long time ago blaming himself

for everything, that half of it wasn't even him. if he did something like that, don't you think an honest person would put that in his book? he never did that. i'm 100% sure. >> thank you for coming on our show exclusively and talking about your belief that john phillips did not commit the incest that his daughter, mackenzie, is accusing him of. >> yes. the last thing she can chew on, and she's chewing on it. my problem is that the headaches she's caused in the family. i'm very upset that -- biju is upset, i love biju. and i think it's not right to have family divided. >> yeah. and boy, thank you. this has divided the family.

mackenzie's sister, actress biju phillips said mackenzie told her about the abuse, then said, you know what, it never really happened. bijou said the man who raised me would never be capable of doing such things. it is heartbreaking to to think that my family would leave me alone with him. that raises a very good question. lisa bloom, if this actually happened, should mackenzie have made a motion to keep bijou away from john? but bijou said she was raised by a guy like mr. mom and was a loving and supportive father. >> absolutely. the problem mackenzie phillips has is that she is a life-long drug addict, a serious addict. i'm talking about heroin and cocaine being shot into her arms on a daily basis for many years. it doesn't mean her story is untrue. it probably is true. i represented a woman very much like mackenzie phillips who had

had a consensual adult relationship with her father. it's absolutely devastating. it does happen. but the way that mackenzie phillips has gone about this is all wrong, because she's done it by trying to sell a book. that means everybody is suspicious of her motives. she could have come out, for example, i would have advised her, come out and be the national spokesperson for the incest and rape survivor network. tell your story. people are more likely to believe you. also, frankly, before your father died, this is very suspicious in a lot of people's minds and rightly so. >> dr. dale archer, you know, it's so troubling because there's no way for us to verify, and she waited until after her father died, even though he got sober before he died. and there's -- this is destroying the family. michelle phillips says that all of the nieces and nephews in the phillips family are not going to school now. they're staying home and they're sobbing because she has essentially shamed the entire phillips family. is that something that she should have taken into

consideration or not? >> no. i mean, look, she shamed the phillips family, maybe so. she has been living with and dealing with it over her entire life. there is never an easy way or good way to come forward with this. i say bravo. any way you can get this message out. this is an epidemic in america. there are women that this happens to -- >> incest is an epidemic? i didn't know that. >> absolutely. it is huge. and it's impossible -- >> adult incest? >> only if you are in the field and you treat people as a psychiatrist or a psychologist, do you hear these stories time after time after time, again. and the women are -- >> but are the people that you're hearing them from addicts? heroin addicts? >> they're all -- >> who has just gotten sober less than a year ago? >> how about the stories about adult incest. that's a very different form. >> all i will say is that it is so hard to come forward, and this is always what happens, no one believes you. all the time a girl will come forward and tell the story, and

the mom will support the dad. >> wouldn't it be a better idea to go into family therapy and tell your family, this is what happened to me. because apparently she's told people this in the past. but then according to michelle and bijou, she took it back and said it didn't happened. >> you know, jane, i think that you're right. there is a good way to do it. but any way to get this out is very important. and it's not easy to do. >> got to take a break. >> and if it took a book for her to do this, i say that's fine. if this sheds a light on this problem, then that is a good thing. >> more on mackenzie phillips in just a bit. we're also taking your calls on this one. give me a holler, 1-877-586-7297. do you believe her? dogfighting and day care? under the same roof? we can't even show it to you it's so bad. we'll update you on the condition of some unbelievably tortured dogs. but first, more on mackenzie phillips' alleged incestuous affair with her father. here she is in 1996 talking

about her father as a role model. pretty creepy stuff. >> we have to remember that we are our children's role models. you know? my role model was my father who had hair down his back and was wearing a dress. you know? and said whatever turns you on.

i went to my father and i said, look, we need to talk about how you raped me. and my dad said, raped you? don't you mean when we made love? and in that moment i thought, wow, i'm really on my own here. >> mackenzie phillips on oprah, shocking claims from the former tv ak ves. she says she carried on an encess chew -- incestuous relationship with her dad for ten years. she writes about it in her new book, a best seller "high on arrival." phone lines lighting up on this one. shawn, your question or thought?

>> caller: hi, jane. i'm just calling to say i don't really think any of this is true. i think she's just trying to make money for your book. >> you raise an interesting point. and i want to talk about why people do things, curtis sliwa. i know children of addicts of alcoholics are often extremely mad at their addict parent. so there could be various levels of motivation. it could be she wants a book. she has a tv show. but she also could have a lot of deep-seeded anger. i want to quote quickly from my book about growing up in an alcoholic household. children of alcoholics experience trauma when they grow up with a person who isn't really present the way a sober person is. often these children have been traumatized by the excessive drama in the household. rageful, weepy or detached children of alcoholics and addicts have a tendency to develop bitterness over their stilted relationship with the alcoholic or addict parent. >> man, i'd be crazy mad against this guy. this guy was a freaky deeky guy.

we just talked about the story of ryan o'neal at the wake. the final viewing of farrah fawcett. beautiful blond comes up and kisses him, hello, ryan, and he tries to put the squeeze on her and said, what are you doing after the wake? you and me got the urge to merge. she said, ryan, it's me, your daughter, tatum. come on, wake up, america! he admitted this. >> there's a big difference between that story and this story. >> there's no difference. these guys believe in this come live and let live, laws yea fair. and what she father said was, oh, you've got to accept the fact that this is the kind of a lifestyle you live. are you crazy? >> jane, i've got to get in here. jane -- >> hold on. let's see the panel. let's see the panel. mark eiglarsh. >> thank you, jane. first of all, you've got dale archer saying bravo. sliwa convicting him already. let me explain something, the only thing we know for sure is none of us will ever know for sure whether this happened.

that's number one. and number two, as i tell my jurors, when i'm raising questions about someone's credibility, there's a difference between believability and accuracy. so even if when you see this oprah interview, she looks believable, it may be entirely different whether she's accurate, whether this really did happen or whether it was imagined in order to sell books or when she was in a drug-induced state. >> i think drugs is at the heart of all of this. mackenzie talks about growing up in a crazy drug-filled world. she says she was 10 when she was rolling joints for her dad. 13 when she was -- he was helping her shoot up at the age of 13. she tells oprah her dad brought her to a party where she had sex with rocker mick jagger, who hasn't responded to this. i'm waiting to hear from him. when she was only 18. listen to this one. >> so my dad walks out. mick turns around, locks the door and looked at me and he says, i've been waiting for this since you were 10 years old.

and my dad, you know, comes back and -- that's my daughter in there! let her out! we just -- we ignored him. >> lisa bloom, mick jagger hasn't responded. but boy, he's probably fuming across the pond as it were. >> well, at least she was 18. so he wasn't proposing anything that was illegal. although it's disgusting if he knew her since she was a little girl. this is america, people are entitled to respond to allegations that smear their reputation for all of history. this man has passed away in 2001. like i said, i tend to believe her. but i'm really offended at the way that she has gone about this, waiting many years after her father was gone to disclose it. the so-called witnesses who support her side are only people who she told. they didn't see anything. they didn't hear anything. there doesn't seem to be any evidence. and she's a wealthy woman. she comes from a wealthy family. >> wait, wait, wait. >> by way of selling a book. >> wait a second. i don't know how wealthy she is. maybe there's a jealousy factor

here because the mama and papa's fortune has not descended on her, mike eiglarsh. >> that is very possible. lisa pointed out by coming out with a book, now you've got bias, motive, interest, all those things that should not be present if she had just come out with no interest at all. what i say to all the people out there, don't jump to conclusions, because you just don't know. and if it really did happen, dale, she does in fact deserve our compassion and sympathy. but we don't know. >> we have to wrap it up right there. i know we could talk about this forever. >> doesn't anybody listen to chynna? >> it's over. you know, seriously, my dad was an alcoholic. in my new recovery memoir i write about that. i talk about how my own father's alcoholism encouraged me to drink to excess. it left me bitter about my relationship with him until i got sober 14 years ago. there he is, there i am.

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ask your doctor if boniva can help you stop losing and start reversing. (announcer) for a free trial offer call 1-800-4-boniva or visit boniva.com >> welcome to comcast local edition. my guest this hour is dr. faye williams, national chair of the national congress of black women. thank you so much for joining me. >> it's always great to be here. >> now, for those that may not know, what's the mission of the national congress of black women? >> well, we are an organization that works with the community, mainly with young people. we have a program for 9-12 years old where we teach them about the wonderful vocations there are in life. we bring in ambassadors, athletes, and we want them to

know that they can be more than a singer, dancer, or football player. we have another program for which comcast is our media partner on young ambassadors. we try to teach young adults to navigate life. we teach conflict resolution, about vocations, and about going to school, the importance of time management, discipline, that kind of thing. >> thou, you have an anniversary awards luncheon coming up. you recognize numerous women for their wonderful accomplishments. when is the luncheon? >> sunday, september 27th. people remember it by the sunday morning following the congressional black caucus. it's at 11:00 this year, which is a change of time. >> where is it located? >> this year at the united states naval yard, sixth and m street southeast. we're looking forward to having

a wonderful time. there's a beautiful view of the water there. >> and in celebrating your 25th anniversary, congratulations, by the way. >> thank youia who are some of our honorees? there's an extensive list. >> we always honor first our founding chairs and fathers. we want to salute them first. janet lange heart corn, we have several other women, we always honor the newly elected blank congresswomen. that will be marsha fudge this year. we have a judge from michigan, judge denise langhart mars, and

i'm sure we have a couple of more, a general manager of a car dealer, ms. craft from the area, and of course, our wonderful chair, president of the northern verge urban league laverne chapman. regina kelly, the subject of the movie american violet. >> you have an extensive list of women that touch us in so many areas of our lives. >> we have a good mother award. this year it's being received by peter harvey. we are honoring him, because as an attorney general, he worked very hard on domestic violence. that's one of our projects. we honored him. last year we were honored that have kami brown. >> thank you for honoring him.

>> we are probably the only organization in town that has a $75 fundraising ticket. that's the general admission. there are corporate tickets, member tickets, and general membership tickets, general public tickets. they are selling pretty fast this year. when they hear about the honorees, people want to bring their young children, especially young women to meet these people. they can meet the young lady that flew across the country. >> thank you for joining me. >> we hope to see you there this year. >> my pleasure, definitely. my guest has been dr. faye williams national chair of the national congress of black women. if you're interested in what comcast is doing in your area, go to on demand and click local.

for comcast local edition, i'm donna richardson.

jaycee dugard wants to testify against the monster who was holding her captive. tonight, big issue, does the criminal justice system victimize rape survivors twice? a celebrity superstar busted for stiping out on his hotel bill. randy quaid and his wife were arrested in texas, accused of owing a hotel $10,000. that's a lot of trips to the mini bar. tonight, jaycee dugard's

stepdad says he can't wait to write garrido taunting letters. he says, i will be telling him how our family is doing. probyn witnessed garrido snatching jaycee off the street in 1991. here he is just days later. >> watched the car go up the hill. and i saw my daughter making the curve up there, all of a sudden the car darted across the road, cut her off. i saw the door open. i jumped on my bike, i heard her scream. i realized i couldn't catch him in time. so i came back down and called 911. >> everybody wondered, was he telling the truth at the time. this ruined that man's life. that's the alleged monster right there, convicting this guy could mean more pain and trauma for jaycee. can she handle the face-to-face

with garrido in court? her attorney says absolutely. here he is on the cbs "early show." >> she very clearly understands that some very bad and terrible things were done to her. and the people that commit those crimes need to be held accountable. >> these pictures give you just an idea of what life was like for jaycee for 18 long years. this filth is just the tip of the iceberg. imagine her on the witness stand, having to answer questions about what garrido did to her, about giving birth to her children when she was herself a child. how is she going to get through that? and that brings me to tonight's big issue, are rape victims raped a second time by having to relive their nightmares on the stand, giving graphic testimony about their humiliating violations. isn't it like being victimized all over again? back to my fantastic panel. curtis sliwa, can we even imagine what it's going to be like if jaycee dugard has to take the stand and go

face-to-face with that creep? >> well, jane, i've been cross-examined many times. but it pales in comparison to what this woman is going to have to go through. and i would think the defense attorney for the two monsters, garrido and his wife, when given the opportunity to cross-examine her, will say, we refuse to ask any questions. we're not going to ask any questions. we rest with this witness. and let her just retire. i realize the prosecution may have to extract from her some details that are going to prove very harmful to her psyche, to have to relive it. but if the defense team would be stand up, they wouldn't ask her -- they wouldn't even go there. they wouldn't even go there. just rest with that witness. >> i disagree that it is harmful, jane. i'll tell you why. i represented rape victims and child sexual abuse survivors for many years. most people think what you're saying, it's psychologically damaging to testify. it's horrible. it damages you a second time. wrong. what my clients tell me they're

all scared before hand, but what they told me afterwards was it was empowering to testify. they already lived through the worst part. to get on the witness stand, to look that bad guy in the eye and to tell the truth about what happened, and ideally to get a conviction against that person, is very empowering. and they want to go out of their courtroom with their head held high. they started out with the little voice because they were so scared. we have to dispel the notion it's a terrible thing to testify in a trial. it is not. >> jane, the bottom line is, we are still -- we still have a court system in this country. and of course, jaycee has to come to court and testify against her accuser. just because this is the worst of the worst, and this really is the worst, it doesn't take away the fact that we still have to have a trial, and he has to be proven guilty in court. and the key witness in the case is clearly jaycee. she has to testify. >> this is happening to so many

young women. what kind of agony do these rape victims have to endure when they testify against their attackers. remember elizabeth smart? she may be called to do exactly that soon at a mental competency hearing for one of her alleged kidnappers. a husband and wife accused of kidnapping smart in 2003 when she was just 14 years old so they could keep her as a plural wife, just another one of these horrific stories that ended in a miraculous rescue. but this young girl, now older obviously, is going to have to testify. i don't understand, dale archer, why can't they do this on videotape? why do they have to be in the courtroom and face the person who tortured them? >> actually i completely agree with lisa on this. this is very therapeutic. this is one more step to getting back to a normal life. and let's face it, jaycee dugard is a survivor. she is going to do fine with this. i have been so impressed with the fact that for 18 years she was able to come through this with her life, and with her two children's lives intact, when this guy possibly could have

been involved in murders or other abductions along the way. so i think jaycee's going to be fine. and i think that lisa is correct. this is a big -- >> what the hell are you talking about? what do you mean fine? how the hell can you talk -- you ever have to testify in court? you asking the questions. >> we have to preserve the sanctity of the court system. >> i agree with curtis. i agree with curtis. you can't use the word fine when it comes to this horrific situation. but you can say that maybe we hope it's a catharsis for her. we've got to move on to another horrific story. turning now to a gruesome secret under covered at a chicago day care. are you sitting town? mutilated, starving animals, bloody walls and floors, filthy syringes, all part of a horrific dogfighting ring. and get this, it was just steps from a child's swing set. ten children were removed from the home during the raid.

because it was a day care center. one of the three suspects is married to the day care center operator. after these men were arrested, police discovered something even sicker. suspect martez anderson's cell phone had a video of a dog being burned to death. this is outrageous. you'll hear from anderson in a moment. police rescued nine mangled dogs from the home. four of them puppies covered in scars. >> this is a difficult one to completely sum up given the carnage, given what you see on these poor dogs. then add to it it was going on within feet of a day care center. there was a swing set, less than ten feet from the swing set was a log the dogs were chained to. it is very unsettling to put it lightly. >> that little white puppy, the sheriff was holding, had his eye ripped out. look at that. the helpless creature was tossed into the fight in the form of bait.

there were at least two complaints about dogs at this home in 2006 and 2007. child welfare officers made up unannounced visits. but because the dogs were locked in a garage, nothing was done. that is unacceptable. straight to my expert panel joining me now is animal advocate jane garrison. jane, this is outrageous. isn't this where animal cruelty goes hand in hand to cruelty to children? weren't these children put in a dangerous and horrific situation? >> absolutely, jane. these dogs could have gotten out of that garage. they could have attacked these kids. they could have killed these kids. and besides the dogs, i wouldn't want kids left in a home with those sadistic individuals. somebody who finds pleasure in setting a dog on fire and watching her burn would have no problem torturing a kid. these people should be put away for many, many years. not only for what they did to these innocent dogs, but for endangering these kids. >> this case has so many sick details, but the suspect's cell phone video of a dog being burned alive, it's about as sad

as it gets. martez had a whole lot to say about why the dogs were on death's door. listen to this. >> it was a few dogs, like i said, for the exception of the little puppy, he got smashed in the door. that was sheerly an accident. the door fell on the puppy. that's how the dog's eye got come out. >> lisa bloom, is that the most pathetic excuse you've ever heard? >> absolutely, jane. i'm the owner of a pit bull and a rescue dog. i think what people fail to understand is these animals experience pain and fear and suffering just as we do. we all have to stand up against dogfighting. i'm just celebrating 32 years as a vegetarian. i know you are, too, jane. and also, speak out on behalf of all the animals who are in cages, who are in terrible conditions as farm animals. it is horrendous across the board. we've become so disconnected from other living, breathing animals who experience the same

fear and pain and suffering as we do of the it's just got to stop. >> absolutely, jane. and the other thing that people can do is in their own communities, they should watch out for signs of dogfighting. everyone can be the eyes and the ears for these dogs. you have to watch for dogs who are chained outside, or unsocialized dogs. equipment such as treadmills or ropes or tires hanging from trees. and watch for dogs who have a lot of scars on their face. or people coming and going at odd hours into homes. >> but curtis -- >> and report these people. >> curtis sliwa, children services went there and said, oh, the dogs are in the garage. that's okay. that's outrageous to me. >> we're going to hear children services, they're overwhelmed. they have too many cases. open up your eyes. go out, check the entire area. do your job. you know something, jane? did you see the smirk on martez's face when he said, oh, the door hit the puppy. you like ultimate fighting, martez? how about you and the pit bull, one-on-one. and let the pit bull do you in,

right there in your jugular. and we're not going to tap you out. >> we've got to leave it right there. horrific for animals, horrific for children. cruelty goes hand in hand. thank you, awesome panel. michael jackson's former friend reveals some of the pop star's dark secrets. did michael really call hitler a genius? is that possible? actor randy quaid arrested for allegedly speaking out -- you will not believe this. ever worn your clothes in the shower? if you're using other moisturizing body washes, you might as well be. you see, their moisturizer sits on top of skin, almost as if you're wearing it. only new dove deep moisture has nutriummoisture, a breakthrough formula with natural moisturizers... that can nourish deep down. it's the most effective natural nourishment ever. new dove deep moisture with nutriummoisture. superior natural nourishment for your skin.

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explosive and head-spinning revelations about the king of pop. did michael jackson think hitler was a genius? according to a jackson friend, jackson not only felt that way, he was 100% convinced. he also said jackson considered dating best friend elizabeth taylor. sound crazy? well, what about this? jackson allegedly said madonna was in love with him and jealous of his success. why are all these secrets just out to have blue? the rabbi has a book coming out and in it, more than 300 hours of recorded conversations with his former friend, michael jackson. oy vai. that's tonight's "top of the block." turning now from freaky fantasies to possible fraud. this one takes the cake, people. actor randy quaid and his wife evi arrested for allegedly skipping out on a $10,000 bill

they racked up at swanky a ranch in santa barbara. that is one swanky ranch, people. these photos from the resort's website. on monday, the santa barbara sheriff's department issued a warrant for the couple's arrest. yesterday at a traffic stop, caught on camera by, who else, tmz, cops in a west texas town busted the couple. it was not without incident. tmz reports evi was screaming and had to be wrestled to the ground. the pairs toed in the slammer. look at that mug shot. what's with the beard? what's with that expression? they posted bail hours later, only after a deputy drove them to get cash, $20,000 each. it gets weirder. tmz says randy quaid scrawled a letter especially for the tmz website that said, "texas is a great place to be arrested. i would like to thank the sheriff and deputies for everything.

it was a fabulous arrest." he seems to think this is all a big joke. quaid also sent tmz a copy of a cashier's check made out to the ranch. you can see it right there, $5,546 and change. that's what the quaids said they owed. wait a minute, a cashier's check for a hotel bill? does that even make any sense? it could be explained by a sworn statement obtained by tmz from a cop who says the quaids checked into the luxury resort using bogus credit cards. furthermore, police say the bill came to a whopping $10,500. meantime, randy claims it's all just a pr stunt on the part of the inn. "issues" called him for comment but we haven't heard back. i want to know what you think about this cuckoo for cocoa puffs celebrity scandal. give me a shout out now. straight out to my fantastic panel, lisa bloom, cnn legal analyst.

david schwartz, criminal defense attorney. and former new york prosecutor. dr. dale archer, clinical psychiatrist. and in just a moment, we're going to be joined by mike walters, manager with tmz. but first, david schwartz. does randy quaid seem to be thumbing his nose at the law, and if so, isn't he making matters worse for himself? >> well, no, i don't know if he's making matters worse for himself. obviously every criminal defendant shouldn't be speaking about the substance of the case. but jane, we have to remember that he has defenses. he's got the cashier's check. and this has got to be settled in court. >> and he's got a beard. why has he got a beard? that size? >> i can't answer that question. i don't know why he has a beard. >> maybe it's a mistaken identity. he looks like a cross between santa claus and the keep on trucking guy. >> oh, man. >> the bottom line is -- >> look at this expression. oh, that's better. but the other expression -- she's out of her mind.

>> he has his jacket over his arm. it's crazy. >> we don't know that. come on. let's give them the benefit of the doubt, like every other criminal defendant. they've got defenses. the inn has their side of the story. yes, it's a bizarre situation, but it's got to play out. >> a great mug shot, though. >> all right. joining us now, mike walters, assignment manager for tmz. mike, i'm hearing things on a delay. so if i don't make any sense, you know why. i'm hearing crazy voices in my ear. you guys got ahold of a deputy's sworn statement that contains real shockers. tell us about the total hotel bill, what tmz calls a "sinister plot to fleece some ritzy hotels." >> well, this is what it explains in the documents. basically they went to the biltmore hotel and used their credit card for the night. when the manager said, we can't get authorization on this card, you have to go or give us something else, they left there, knowing that the card didn't

work, and went to the san racidro ranch and tried to use that card. because it's randy quaid, his wife, they're celebrities, i guess, they let him go in with that card. the intent right there, that's theburgly. they knew it didn't work. they went there, over eight days they racked up over $10,000 of bills. and every day they make an excuse like there's a fedex package coming with the credit card. i'll get my checkbook. finally when they're like, that's it, we're done, they went to tell them they had to get out and they had bolted. so they gathered all this information, $17,000 in the bel-air hotel in l.a., so they had been doing this all along. that's why they were charged with these three felonies. >> you're saying there's a pat learn here allegedly? >> right. that's the way it looks. i'm only telling you what the sworn statement says. that's what it says is they got all this stuff, and you know how they found out? the collection agency, the santa

barbara hotel went to alliance collections and said that's funny, we have the same couple in l.a. doing the same thing. >> we'll be right back with mor of this behavior. yeah. would you like a pony ? yeah ! ( cluck, cluck, cluck ) oh, wowww ! that's fun ! you didn't say i could have a real one. well, you didn't ask. even kids know when it's wrong to hold out on somebody. why don't banks ? we're ally, a new bank that alerts you when your money could be working harder and earning more. it's just the right thing to do.

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