a five-day-old baby ripped from his mother's arms. police say a woman posing as an immigration agent took the child. stabbed the mother eight times. mom's in the hospital and this hour a kidnapper is on the loose. since when is being a good neighbor a criminal offense? a mom busted, threatened with jail for watching her neighbor's kids before they get on the bus. the kids are there less than an hour but the state of michigan says she's running an unlicensed day care. what? call in on these topics. you know the number 1-877-tell-hln. shoot us an e-mail or text us.

start your message with the word "prime." your chance to be heard. welco welcome. at this hour, the frantic it search for an newborn baby violently ripped from his mother's arms. let's look at this picture here, precious little guy here, five days only, nowhere to be found missing since late yesterday. i can't imagine the torment his family is going through. here's what we know happened cops say a woman impersonating an agent showed up at the home. an altercation ensues, the woman we are talking about here stabbed repeatedly and was able to run to a neighbor's house and get some help. when she returned, the little baby was gone. we want to know where is the cute little guy we just showed you. as always we take your calls, you guys come with great questions.

joining us former criminal investigator john lucich and clinical psychologist and reporter kate howard. any leads on where this little baby is right now? >> not yet. i'm actually at the police station right now where the police are getting ready to release the newest information they have. we don't yet know what that is. >> okay. kate, help us out here, did i tell the story correctly, a woman shows up, posing as an immigration agent, wants the baby, mom refuses, altercation mom was, am i right, stabbed eight times? >> actually nine times. we learned a little bit more from the mother herself today. she spoke to the media this afternoon outside the hospital, where she is is still a patient. and she told us that the woman came to her door and said she was immigration and that she was going to arrest her. she said she had no idea the woman was going to take her baby and she asked her to identify herself and the woman began to hit her and pulled out a knife and began to stab her. she suffered nine stab wounds

but was able to get out of the house and run across the street for help. when she returned, the baby was gone. >> so, you mentioned she got some help from a neighbor named erik phillips, right, kate? >> i believe it was peterson but i don't have it right in front -- >> peterson? here is the name bore, if we could get that sound bite ready a neighbor who helped out, couldn't imagine what they went through seeing your neighbor stand, i'm sure there's blood, panic. here's what he saw. >> you know, i'm glad i was here to respond and save one of the babies. i don't -- i'm hoping for the best on the other baby. i don't -- i'm like, y'all, i don't know what's really going on. instincts kicked in and i got about what, you know, what i need to do. >> another child is involved here but it was unharmed? >> a 3-year-old there at the house was unharmed, yes. i want to tell you now actually the police are about to step in and begin this press conference

and let us know what the news is. >> okay. indicate, are you going it have to break away and listen in? >> i am. >> if you have a chance to come on back, please do. we'll monitor, as well, what's going on. meantime our clinical psychologist dr. michelle golland. as we look at this, are you seeing the baby snatching crime we've talked about before, possibly a woman who couldn't have hair own baby and zoned in on this poor lady? >> that seems to be what happens with they women. it's usually a woman who's of child-bearing age who either lost a baby or was unable to have a baby and often there is a big plot and scheme that sort of goes along with the snatching of someone else's child. this woman is very fortunate she wasn't killed because many of them are -- are murdered. >> it sounds like this lady, whoever took the little guy was after that. we heard nine stab wounds. >> yes. >> talk about the plot, michelle, as it played out in the past, not something that's spur of the moment, right. >> no. >> these plots are sometimes

months or years in the making right. >> they can be befriended, the pregnant woman, by the woman where, i mean we've heard all the cases, you know on krieg's list and things of that nature, as well. but often, you know, i think you need to be very careful who you befriend towards the end of your pregnancy. the other thing they were concerned about the fact they had a sign outside of their house that said that they had a new baby. >> yeah. it was the little blue stork, it's a boy sign, you know we've seen those all over our own neighborhoods. john, are you with us? >> yes, i am. >> again, former criminal investigator, picking up on that, how do you piece this together? i guess to pick up on michelle's point, who was around the mom here in the months leading up to the birth of her baby? >> well, the cops can be doing a lot in this particular instance, first of all puttingotan apb, checking local stores with video

cameras and homes to see what they can see with somebody going up and down the street if they get lucky enough with that. they have their hands full with that. in addition to that, mike, really have to take a look to shore up this woman's stories. we've had cases, i'm not saying this is, but cops have to have an open mind where somebody has done something to their own child and claimed somebody else did it in the case we see susan smith and casey marie anthony, on, and on. while i hope that's not the case the cops definitely have to take a look at her. in the past we've actually seen people give themselves self-inflicted wounds and should be easily checked at the hospital and as they move forward. but the first thing to do is get the word out, get people looking for these people and investigation with the videos and everything else they can do moving forward but have to definitely shore up her story and make sure everything is accurate. >> a quick break guys, more on this. we'll take your calls 1-877-tell-hln. we know a news conference is going on. if there is any new

late-breaking information on this, we will bring it to you. but we wonder, who could do this, who could stab a new mom and take a 5-day-old baby like this? call in.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln continuing our conversation a frightening story here, mom of a five-day-old baby at home, lady comes to the door posing as an immigration agent demands the child, when mom refuses an altercation ensues, the mom is stabbed nine times. the baby is taken away. that's where we are. press conference going on right now in tennessee. we'll keep you posted on any new

information. there's the mom. her little baby, yair carillo. it is frightening. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln as we look at the cute little guy there. former criminal investigator john lucich, again as it lays out, a woman posing as an immigration agent, what does this tell you about someone who could do this, how does that help us out here? >> well, you know, we've seen this before as your other experts have said. we saw the case where the jail guard actually stabbed the woman and left her in a parking lot in which they found her over 100 miles away with an amber alert. this kind of stuff goes on when people don't -- aren't able to it have kids and want kids and some bizarre way they think it's okay and they justify it and it is never justified. as cops continue to follow this up they need to check surrounding areas as well as their own files to see if they have recent abductions. if the hospital had received inquiries about this little child or the mother while she was at the hospital. we're talking about somebody who just got out of the hospital.

somebody had to have inside information that this baby just got home. >> yeah. >> like you said, that little sign could have done it, also but i cannot believe, that would have made it a crime of opportunity where someone happened to be driving by and it sounds like a well planned out scheme here. >> yeah. >> the way it happened. >> exactly. michelle. >> often, these plans are being hatched and they're pretending like they're getting larger, they are having baby showers, the family believes their pregnant the. often these women have personality disorders and relationship problems and often the abduction of an infant is related to, also, the keeping of a relationship of a marriage that was going down and they believed that having a baby was going to make it better. or, the belief that they needed to have a boy child because that's what the husband wanted. there's a lot of delusional thinking mixed with personality disorders in these women. >> what we know about this person who abducted the little

baby, all we know, very brief description, heavyset white woman with blond hair believed in her 30s. so, that's what we know. michelle, i've got to ask you before we go, what kicks in mentally for a whom who would do this that you would begin to justify, that you deserve a baby, is that the mind-set that clicks in here. >> you know, i think it's utter desperation but it's also very narz cystic and self-involved and they're wanting to preserve what they believe they deserve. and it's not so much about the loving of the child. it's about themselves. >> uh-huh. >> so, we can't mistake it for that they want to love a child so much. it becomes a very much about themselves. >> yeah, and a possession, right? >> what they -- and a possession and an object they need to obtain. >> okay. michelle, john, we have to leave it there. thanks again. we'll keep you posted on any new inform itmation on that. >> thank you. another story we continue to follow a dad in a japanese jail

gets divorced from his wife, a native of japan, she takes the kids back to japan, never to return. we're going to talk to that man christopher savoie's wife, who is here in the states, what's she going through, has she heard from her husband? that's coming up the you'll want to stick around for that. an exciting week on hl nv. the debut onty joy bay hair show. good would not tonight. these two ladies faced off when joy guest hosted "larry king live" you can imagine plenty of intense back-and forth during that interview. watch haps tonight, ann coulture versus joy behar, you can see it 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on hln.

it does not look good for dad, whose ex-wife kidnapped his two kids. she took them back to her native japan. now he's the one in jail. simply for trying to get them back.

here's christopher savoie's story we'll continue to follow for you a. rough custody battle for months trying to stop his ex-wife from taking the kids to japan, fearing she would not return. his worst fears came true. last month they didn't show up for school in the u.s. dad heard about it, took action, went to japan, tried to get the kids back but police arrested him. this one is heart breaking. christopher savoie has since remarried. we'll talk to his wife, amy, in just a moment. meantime we have her attorney with us morley we had a chance to talk to yesterday. any new information? >> he's still in jail, taken to the prosecutor's office yesterday. we were hoping for a good word. we know that there's been tremendous pressure from around the world, actually, on japan on this one but they sent him back to jail and they are still thinking about it. he could be there for another ten days before he goes once more to the prosecutor and then they could repeat the 10-day

cycle. right now, i think they are stuck. they don't know what to do and this poor man is stuck in their jail in it a remote part of japan. >> what an awful, awful nightmare chris's family must be going through right now. when we talked yesterday, you and i talked about diplomatic pressure. will the state department talk about that -- talked about this today, let's listen to what they had to say. >> obviously, this is a very difficult issue, you know, the united states and japan have an important partnership but, on this particular issue, the issue of abduction, we have different points of view. and we continue to encourage japan to join with our countries and sign the hague convention. >> jeremy, urging japan to join the hague convention. in listening to that, was that tough enough, strong enough language for you? >> we would like there to be a

stronger, much stronger reaction from the state department and yet we understand that it diplomacy is tough and we don't want the united states, either, to come across as an international bully, which is how they might be seen in japan. it has to be done intelligently. i think the pressure that we're getting from around the world is critical. i think if we work with our allies, it'll be great. there's a long way to go. this is not the only case i've handled of kids being abducted from america to japan. i think this needs to be presented as a human rights story. this is a violation by japan of human rights. they don't respect the fact that two parents are to be involved in the life of kids and it's really an outrage. >> let's talk about that for viewers who need to get up to speed on this, jeremy. the culture in japan is totally different. when parents divorce and that's very rare there, then it basically becomes one parent raising a child and the other one falls off the map, right? >> yeah. actually, the divorce rate is not so low.

it's very easy to get divorced but there is no joint custody. their code does not provide for joint custody. so, one family or the other takes the -- takes the child. and usually it's the mother, especially if one is of japanese disscent and the other is not. then the other parent, if he or she, usually a he had, wants to be involved in the life of the child, often he's regarded as being a darn nuisance and he should, in one famous case, a judge in japan was faced with a situation where a man was seeking visitation with his own child and the judge said, why doesn't he do the right thing, why doesn't he stay behind the bushes and watch the child go to school and stop being a nuisance? >> wow. so, that's -- maybe the mind-set is not that bad but that's still the -- that's the way it's been, right? that's what he's up against, talking about cultural differences a huge divide there. we want to bring in amy savoie, christopher's wife. first off, how is your husband holding up? have you had a chance, heard

from him anybody close to him right there? >> i received from one of his attorneys that he is not doing very well. he's not doing well. and i'm, frankly, i'm very, very worried about him. i'm very worried about him. >> did they get specific at all? i mean, he is having health issues? is it just emotionally going through this, what do we know. >> i think they don't want to worry me, so they're -- they're basically trying to be ginger with me, i think, and, um, i know he's lonely. i know he's desperate for letters from me. he wants me to write letters and he wanted -- he requested books and he wanted reading materials and he was told that they do not allow english books in the japanese jail. >> oh. again, well, let me ask you, we talk about chris. what about you, amy, how are you

holding up? this has to be a nightmare for you, as well. >> it's a complete nightmare for me. i oscillate between feeling hopeful and then wondering what the future holds for the both of us. and i worry about isaac and rebecca, actually. i worry about the media coverage and i just don't -- i don't know how this is is going to end. and it's hard. i've received, though, a lot of phone calls from people who are extremely supportive of me and of christopher. and i've heard from a lot of other families this has happened to. >> well, hopefully, this type of media coverage will get you that support, amy. can you stay with us, amy, just a bit longer? >> yes. >> we'd like to talk to you a bit further. we'll take your calls if you have questions, 1-877-tell-hln. as we continue to cover this heart-breaking story. stay with us.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. fallout from the digital age? people being careless, both? we've talked about this, people texting while driving. study after study shows how bad it is and deadly it can be. our "prime news" correspondents richelle carey, we know the government's looking at. this what are they talking about doing here to get the roads safer out there. >> they will have a summit, mike, to see if they can come up with some solutions because texting while driving, it is a problem. it's going to be the focus of a two-day distracted driving summit, that's what they call this. it is going to be in washington, safety experts, leaders from across the country to try to focus on this. organizers are hoping to raise public awareness and reduce

these crashes. some of the studies floating around at the summit the virginia tech transportation institute found a truck driver's risk of an accident 23 times higher, 23 times higher, while text messages. also a study from the university of utah found a driver with a blood alcohol level of .08 obviously legally will drunk in most states four likely more times to cash but eight times more likely to it have an accident while texting. the transportation secretary ray lahood says after the summit organizers will work closely with congress to possibly develop laws to ban texting while driving then of course the next step to figure out if you can actually enforce that. >> enforce it, yeah. >> you knew that's where i was going. >> that is the follow-up and we'll talk about that. you look at this and here's why something needs to be done. real-world consequences, i want you to listen to reggie shaw. he was 19, texting while driving. he swerved across the center line, clipped an oncupping car,

two it men were killed, ended up dead here. now, he is going to have to live with this for the rest of his life. >> -- definitely not my intention to hurt or harm anyone. and i took two lives. >> i looked around the room and i saw jim's license in the hands of one of the police officers and i realized that he was dead. and i just started crying and repeating the word "no. "i' "i've. >> keith was my whole world. he had his work and he was so important to his work and his work for him. but, for me, he was my whole wor

world. >> wow. there are the consequences, the fallout. we want it hear from you on this. 1-877-tell-hln. is the phone number. if you've done it, call in and tell us about your experience where maybe were you texting while driving. hopefully, spots like that, that's a public service announcement from utah, very powerful and very effective. maybe that'll help you change your ways because we need to, it is so dangerous, joining us is robert st. clair from aaa new york. we'll take your calls at 1-877-tell-hln. robert, is that what has to happen? i mean for us to it hear those kind of stories, as hard as it is to get us to change our ways? >> well, probably. like you have cited, there are plenty of studies that demonstrate the dangers of texting while driving. you know, it's really unfortunate and angering, to be honest, that we have to it have this discussion at all. the idea that people think that they can do all these other activities when they're driving and driving should really take all your attention.

it is multi-tasking to the nth degree when you are driving, controlling a heavy object moving at speed and have to watch road signs, be aware of road conditions, other vehicles, the idea you can do something else while you are doing that is ridiculous. >> it is. >> it is unfortunate we have to send this message but obviously we have to. >> we have to change the culture, i believe. people think it's like, hopefully changing but you almost get that feeling, look at me, look how cool i am, i can comb my hair and shave and talk and text. no, we need to drive while behind the wheel. kim is with us from ohio. go ahead. >> caller: hi, mike. love your show. >> thanks, mike. >> caller: i have one experience texting and it changed my life forever. >> what happened. >> it was late at night and i was texting my son and i thought, well, it's safe, i'm going to text him back next thing i knew not only had i crossed the lane of a road, i was approaching the sidewalk.

had it been daylight it could have been a completely are different circumstance and i could have harmed another child and we don't need any studies to prove this is dangerous. >> right. >> that's right. >> caller: i'm living proof. >> kim, thanks for the call and for sharing your story. i'm sure there are others out there. i admit i have done it a couple times myself. i stopped myself, what you are doing? it's easy to fall into that trap but face it it can be deadly. robert, to your point, why do we need a summit on this let's get laws passed and ban this nationwide. >> well, 13 states have already passed bans and we are looking for bans to be nationwide at least by 2013 and probably that's too long to way, to be honest with you. we need to have a ban immediately. in new york, in my state here, we have a band but unfortunately it's a secondary ban meaning a police officer has to see you doing something else committing some other infraction before they can pull you over for texting while driving t. just reflects the lack of seriousness we have in this country toward driving, probably the only country in the world that takes

driving so lightly and we have such poor driver training, driver's ed in high high schools has been dropped, not that it is very good but at least a first start getting the first attitude into youngsters' heads they need to have about driving and bad driving youngsters become bad driving adults. >> we've looked at the video the bus driver texting his girlfriend and saw him plow into the car ahead of him. that's what we have to understand, that quick, look down and look up and you could be involved in an accident. >> all it takes is two seconds, two seconds your eyes being off the road and can lead to a crash. just two seconds. >> i want to listen here, robert, to john kaiserman, the gentleman driving the truck in that utah incident. the accident wasn't his fault but his truck hit the car of the two men and ended up killing him. let's listen to him and what he saw as this unfolded. >> the driver of the vehicle ahead of me had seemed to be distracted most of the way over the mountain and crossed over

the center line on more than one occasion. and -- and i do remember on that particular occasion of the accident that, as he crossed over the center line and i -- you do the math in your head and you see the car coming, you think this is not going to be good. >> okay. well that, leads to a couple of questions here, robert. number one is, what do we do? because we've all seen it, driving along you look over, somebody is swerving a bit, sure enough have a cell phone and texting away. what can we do? is there anything? just pull over until they get out of the way. >> calling 911 and giving the license plate. i've had the occasion doing that a couple times myself. if you see something going on on the road that's untowards and dangerous notify the authorities. it may not lead to something immediately happening but at least somebody will know. it's very -- >> right. >> -- almost impossible really to respond to the situation on our own. you don't want to take the law into your own hands. >> no, we don't want to talk about vij atlantaism here.

>> exactly. >> we have talked about enforcement, how are we going to enforce this? law enforcement officers have their work cut out for them peering into vehicles to see if someone is text org not. >> when we face situations like this one of the three es we say you need engineering, education or enforcement. enforcement is not going to do the whole job. education is going to be primary. we have to get the message out to people of all ages that driving is very serious, that it requires all your attention, unfortunately, like i said before, driver's ed has been cut. parents now have the responsibility of training their youngsters on their own, aaa has lots of great material that parents can use to help train their youngsters, but we have to send a much more serious message. >> serious message, that's the key. >> number one cause of death for a teenager in the united states is a car crash. the number one cause of death for a male from birth to age 44 is the car crash. >> that's what we've got to hit on. robert, we have to run. always good having you on.

>> take care. >> a woman threatened with jail for helping out neighbors. some busy-body neighbor calls state authorities now she's accused of running an illegal day care. give me a break. call in on this one, 1-877-tell-hln.

an exciting week on hln, the

debut ofty joy behar show. a good one tonight, her guest ann coulter, quite a mix. they battled before as joy behar hosted "larry king live" recently. it's right here on hln. check it out, 9:00 eastern right after nancy grace. how ridiculous can you get with this. you try do the right thing, help your neighbors. we need more of that. then this happens, a mom threatened with jail time for being nice, watching her neighbors' kids before they get on the school bus. lisa snyder lives in front of the bus stop and offered to help three moms in the neighborhood to keep an eye on their kids for less than an hour free of charge until the bus showed up. amairnl another neighbor got wind of it and reported her to the state of michigan. now, if mom keeps it up she faces 90 days in jail a thousand dollar fine. the state says, it's an illegal day care? brother. we'll take your calls,

1-877-tell-hln. joining us, the hardened criminal herself, lisa snyder. the babysitster in question also with us criminal defense attorney bradford cohen. lisa, starting with you, you had to be floored when you found out you could be in trouble for watching your neighbors' kids. >> up, yes, i was because i've never done anything wrong in my life. >> what happened? tell us how it unfolded, you found out you were in trouble or could be? >> caller: i received a letter on september 11th from the state department. my house is a bus stop. and it all kind of unravelled from there. >> so, they told you what? what infraction, what law could you have broken here? >> caller: the act number 116 of public acts of 1973. >> a little archaic there. >> caller: yes. >> all right. where are you now, still helping out your neighbors or have you had to stop? >> the one boy that comes for an hour, i have stopped, but the other boy, his mom is a widowed

mom and she lives right up the road and i have not stopped doing that. but, he does not come in the house. that's where it gets tricky. if he comes in the house it is considered day care. if he stays out on my porch it's in the. >> brother. who told on you? who's the neighbor here? >> caller: we're not sure. the state department just said that it was a neighbor in our neighborhood. >> okay. all right. let's bring in bradford. let's go over this law i'll read it real quick. >> sure. >> you can help us out. michigan law as lisa said 1973 a private home can qualify as a day care if one to seven minor children all unrelated to the caregivers receive care for less than 24 hours a day and for more than four weeks in a year. when are they just going to throw this out? especially in a case like this. come on. >> yeah. well, what happens is generally what happens is someone gets charged with it and they hire an experienced criminal defense attorney that will challenge the legality of it, really an overly broad, poorly written statute and that's really what you're

looking it. it makes crimes out of things that really shouldn't be crimes. if you read it technically it would make illegal if you had a babysitter come into your own home and watch your kids. it would make illegal if you had your child have a friend sleep over your house. it's really an archaic, really archaic statute and i think the reason why it's still on the books because no one has challenged it. they probably haven't brought a prosecution based on this statute in probably quite some time. >> speaking of challenging, lisa, are you fighting it? >> we have the state rep's support, jennifer granholm just got on board a couple days ago. the director of the department of human services, he issued a statement saying that i think they might have jumped the gun a little. so, yeah. >> do you think? >> the nice thing is, she wasn't actually charged with a crime yet. i think the state attorney wouldn't even go that far. i would be shocked, floored if they actually went that far.

sending the letter in itself wasting the time in sending letter is shocking in itself. >> exactly. well put. guys, hang tight. we'll take some calls, your calls on this, your outrage, 1-877-tell-hln's the number.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. i don't know about you but i'm baffled by in one, a mom, we have her on, lisa snyder does a good deed. we deed more of this neighbors helping neighbors out she lives in front of a bus stop and allows three kids to stay at her house less than an hour until the bus comes and now could be charged in michigan for running an illegal day care. oh, brother. let's read this from facebook. kimberly chiming in what's next your kids can't have their

friends coming over on a daily basis to play? lynn, go ahead. >> caller: hi. how are you doing? >> good, lynn. >> caller: great. listen. i've got an issue with this. this lady was doing this out of the kindness of her heart. and i think it's a great thing. you know, i -- my mom did the same with me and my sister when i was little. she had to be work earlier than the bus when -- before the bus came and she took me to a lady's house and this lady did the same for her. >> lynn -- >> caller: -- the day care centers and the abuse and the neglect and the mishaps going on at the day care centers this lady did a really good thing and the lady we're talking about now, she's doing a great thing. >> she is doing a great thing. you know, people have been doing this for years and still doing it across this country. lisa, again, that's why you must have just been dumbfounded. >> caller: right. one point i want to make is that these women, we have all known each other for quite a long time. they know what my family's

morals are and know how i raise my kids and know they are bringing them into a safe environment. if they were to go to licensed day care, a licensed daycare, yes, they are licensed, but are they a safe environment? they don't know who is taking care of their children. >> that's what we want. neighbor helping neighbor, friends helping friend and it's illegal? a facebook comment from sue. why does the state waste the resources on something like this? bradford, how quick do you think the state will act to get this cleared up? >> if they are smart, very quickly. if you watch all these shows on tv, every day you hear about kids getting kidnapped and going missing. you have a woman, i can understand the state's position in terms of having a law against unlicensed daycares, but a good law, this is a poorly-written law. that is the key here. it's poorly written, overly broad.

>> clear that up for us. that was the original intent of the law so somebody couldn't open up their house with no qualifications and say we are running a daycare. >> absolutely. you don't know if someone is going to take care of the kids properly. the way this law is written is so poor, is that it includes behavior that shouldn't be considered criminal. that is the crux of the argument. i'm sure if she has a good attorney or even the fire power she has right now in terms of state reps, things of that nature, they should change this quickly. >> everybody is in lisa's corner here, as well they should be. this is what we need, helping each other out a lot more of that. stick with us, guys. more coming up. eeeeeeeee

a 5-day-old baby ripped from his mother's arms. a woman posing as an immigration agent took the child, stabbed the mother nine times. a kidnapper is on the loose. when is it a crime to be a good neighbor? a mom busted, threatened with jail for watching her neighbors' kids before they get on the bus for school. they are there less than an hour and the state of michigan says she is running an unbe licensed illegal daycare? call in, 1-877-tell-hln or e-mail us cnn.com/primenews.

it's your chance to be heard. welcome. this is hour number two of "prime news." i'm mike galanos. the frantic search is on for a newborn baby violently ripped from his mother's arms. look at this precious little guy, yair carillo. he's been missing since late yesterday. can't imagine the torment his family is going through. cops say a woman impersonating an immigration agent demanded the mom hand over the baby. mom refused. the mom was stabbed repeatedly, nine times. she was, however, able to stumble to her neighbor's house and get help. when she returned, the baby was gone. where is little yair? we'll take your calls. joining us to talk about it, former criminal investigator

jo lusage. what is the new information from the news conference? >> police located a car of interest they think is at least a witness to this crime, and possibly involved in it. there was a dark late model kia spectra that appeared to pull into the parking lot of a local walmart and did not exit the car. the driver did not get out of the car. when the family left the walmart, this driver left the walmart and appeared to follow them out on to the road. >> okay. what do we know? do they have specifics on who owns this vehicle? >> they don't. they are trying to learn all that. they believe it may be an out-of-state vehicle. they believe the license plate may be out of state, but they don't have information on who may be driving it or who that car may be registered to until they learn more information about the plate.

>> let's go to our former criminal investigator john lucich. >> federal laws have been broken. you are going to see the fed enter this case and they'll be able to bring more resources to this and a lot more can get done quicker. this is a big lead. i know it's going to be dependent on the quality. i worked on cameras and i've seen how grainy they can be in cases. if they've got a good shot and maybe even can make out the plate and actually digital imaging forensics could bring up enhanced focus in and change zoom, change resolution to get this as clear as possible. it all depends on the angle which they have those photos. >> kate, any new information? >> that is the majority.

we did hear from the mother earlier today. as far as we know she is still in the hospital recovering. >> what is the description she's given for the person who showed up posing as an immigration agent? >> a white woman, probably about 5'4", 5'5", she had blonde hair in a ponytail. she was relatively heavyset. the information is she may speak some spanish. >> okay. anything else on any leads at all come about about where little yair could be? >> the tennessee bureau of investigation said they received several leads and think are following up on all of them. obviously this car is the most pressing of those. they are trying to find that out. no more specific than that. >> let's bring in michelle colin. we talked last hour about this. we don't want to jump too far ahead. what we are seeing here is that baby snatching theory and what we have here, the description from the victim of white lady, 5'4", blonde, heavyset. >> right. >> fits what we were talking

about, right? >> it goes to the fact if they are looking at that someone who was premeditating this crime and often women who steal infants like this case, they are women who have lost children or want to have children and are unable to, and then what they do is they have a whole plan and sort of scheme that goes along with it, which is pretending to be pregnant, having a baby shower, all these things. they may not even know who the victim is going to be until towards the end, but they're planning this whole thing up to that moment. >> okay. odds are -- that leads to a good question. how long do you think that maria was targeted for her baby? could it have been maybe the last few weeks they finally find a target? >> absolutely. i'll bet you it goes back longer

than that. the reason being is because, i can't believe someone is going to start an elaborate plan like this, and like michelle said because we've seen cases like this, where people have gone through baby showers telling everybody they are going to be expecting a baby. i believe this is going to be several months ago they were targeted. they knew the exact date. so again, it's inside information. if they are following this person to the walmart and then leaving before this baby is abducted, they even tailed these people which makes this worse. >> i think what is so important and often how these infants are found is that it's also the family members of the woman who realize that something is not right. >> right. >> often what is happening is these women, it's not just about themselves that they want the baby, the object, but what they are also doing is trying to keep maybe a husband around or a boyfriend around so it's an elaborate plan, not really necessarily to fulfill a need of

being a mother. it may have started with some of that, but it then becomes much more about themselves and self-interest. >> turns evil and selfish. let's take a quick break. much more coming up. we'll take your calls.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we continue our conversation about a 5-day-old baby abducted. mom ends up stabbed nine times. was able to stumble to a neighbor's house and get help. this little guy yair carillo, nowhere to be found. just 5 days old. rita is with us in north

carolina. your thoughts here? >> caller: hey. i heard a report earlier that a woman named lisa sampson was a person of interest in the case or a suspect? she was found in new york without the child. have you heard anything like that? >> let's go to kate howard, reporter for "the tennesseean" who has been following this. >> she was involved as a person of interest as a citizen tip. somebody called police and said check this person out. they did find her in new york state and interviewed her there. she said she had been in new york at the time of the abduction. they haven't found any other reason to believe that's not true and they have ruled her out as a suspect at this point. >> let's get another call. sharon is with us in florida. your comment or question? >> caller: mike, you're great. i watch you all the time. >> thanks, sharon. >> caller: what i'm thinking if this lady is blonde or white, she is going to have to have a hispanic husband or boyfriend she is doing it for or taking orders where this woman needs a

hispanic baby boy. >> thanks for the call. let's go back to john lusich, former criminal investigator. how are we going to track this lady down is the question? is our best bet a family member like michelle talked about? kind of noticing something is not quite right. some of the cases we followed before, that's what ends up happening. >> absolutely. it could be both ways. they are going to follow up every lead and work on this walmart video and any other video they locate. the cops are doing a great job taking this job seriously. it's a priority for them. to go through all that video walmart has. they have several cameras making several different angles on the front side and back of their buildings. this is a lot to go through to be able to find out days ago they were able to find them in the parking lot. that takes a lot of work. so they accomplished a lot in a short amount of time. i believe following up on all these leads is just as important.

when it comes down to it, they've got to get public awaterness out there. if you think somebody had a baby and it's suspicious, call the police right away. >> i would agree with the caller. that's really true that often it can be a specific sort of target they are looking for. i remember one case where the boyfriend wanted a boy. it was very important that the boyfriend have a male child. again, she may be right. we may be looking for a white woman who is with a latino male and just had a baby. and is suspicious. >> help us out with what kicks in. by the description, this is a woman mid 30s, 5'4", somewhat heavyset. we've seen this turn violent. thankfully the mom is okay, but stabbed nine times. >> she is very fortunate. what we've seen often is the women who steal the babies from

the mother's womb. these women are often usually personality disordered, bimeans their characterlogical issues are deep. they have difficulties in most areas of their life and are, again, trying to fulfill something for themselves. it's not about the child and being a great loving mother. it's about what they are trying to have others believe about that. that becomes paramount. >> we have to leave it there. michelle, john, kate, we appreciate it. >> thank you. >> we'll pray for little yair's safe return. coming up, an american dad in a japanese jail because his ex-wife took the kids back.

welcome back to "prime news." it does not look good for dad whose ex-wife kidnapped their two kids. he took them back to native japan.

he's in jail for trying to get his kids back. here is christopher savoie's story. he's been trying to stop his ex-wife from taking the kids to japan, fearing she would not return. his worst fears came true. last month they didn't show up for school in the u.s. dad heard about it, took action, went to japan, tried to get the kids back, but police arrested him. this one is heartbreaking. christopher savoie since remarried. we'll talk to his wife amy in a moment. we have her attorney with us, jeremy morlie. good to have you back. give us the latest on christopher's polite. any new information? >> he is still in jail. he was taken to the prosecutor's office yesterday. we were hoping for a good word. we know there's been tremendous pressure from around the world actually on japan on this one. they sent him back to jail and are still thinking about it. he could be there for another ten days before he goes once more to the prosecutor and then they can repeat the ten-day

cycle. right now i think they are stuck. they don't know what to do. this poor man is stuck in a jail in the remote part of japan. >> what a terrible nightmare. when we talked yesterday, you and i talked about diplomatic pressure. will the state department talk about this today? let's listen to what they had to say. >> obviously, this is a very difficult issue. the united states and japan have an important partnership, but on this particular issue, the issue of abduction, we have different points of view. we continue to encourage japan to join with our country and sign the hague convention. >> jeremy, urging japan to join the hague convention. in listening to that, was that tough enough, strong enough language for you? >> we would like there to be a

stronger, much stronger reaction from the state department. yet we understand diplomacy is tough. we don't want the united states either to come across as an international bully, which is how they might be seen in japan. has to be done intelligently. i think the pressure we are getting from around the world is critical. i think if we work with our allies it will be great. there is a long way to go. this is not the only case i handled of kids being abducted from america to japan. this needs to be presented as a human rights story. this is a violation of japan of human rights. they don't respect the fact two parents are to be involved in the life of kids. it's an outrage. >> let's talk about that for viewers who need to get up-to-speed on this. the culture in japan is totally different. when parents divorce, and that's rare there, it basically becomes one parent raising a child and the other one falls off the map, right? >> yeah. the divorce rate is to the so

low. it's very easy to get divorced, but there is no joint custody. their code does not provide for joint custody. one family or the other takes the child. usually it's the mother, especially if one is of japanese descent and the other is not. the other parent, if he or she, usually a he, wants to be involved if the life of the child, often he is regarded as being a darn nuisance and he should, in one famous case, a judge in japan was faced with a situation where a man was seeking visitation with his own child and the judge said why doesn't he do the right thing? why doesn't he stay behind the bushes and watch the child go to school and stop being a nuisance. >> maybe the mindset is not that bad, but that's the way it's been. that's what he is up against. we are talking about cultural differences. i want to bring in amy savoie,

christopher savoie's wife. how is your husband holding up? >> i received a message from one of his attorneys that he is not doing very well. he is not doing well. frankly, i'm very, very worried about him. i'm very worried about him. >> does he have health issues, just emotionally going through this? what do we know? >> i think they don't want to worry me. they're basically tried to be ginger with me, i think. i know he is lonely, he is desperate for letters from me. he wants me to write letters and he wanted, he requested books and he wanted reading materials and he was told that they do not allow english books in the japanese jail. >> again, let me ask you, what

about you, amy, how are you holding up? this has to be a nightmare for you, as well. >> it's a complete nightmare for me. i oscillate between feeling hopeful and then wondering what the future holds for the both of us. i worry about isaac and rebecca, actually. i worry about the media cover e coverage, and i don't know how this is going to end. it's hard. i received a lot of phone calls from people who are extremely supportive of me and of christopher, and i heard from a lot of other families this has happened to. >> hopefully this type of media coverage will get you that support, amy. can you stay with us just a little bit longer? we would like to talk with you further. we'll talk your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. stay with us.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. fallout from the digital age? people being careless, both? we've talked about this, people texting while driving. study after study shows how bad it is and deadly it can be. our "prime news" correspondents richelle carey, we know the government's looking at. this what are they talking about doing here to get the roads safer out there. >> they will have a summit, mike, to see if they can come up with some solutions because texting while driving, it is a problem. it's going to be the focus of a two-day distracted driving summit, that's what they call this. it is going to be in washington, safety experts, leaders from across the country to try to focus on this. organizers are hoping to raise public awareness and reduce these crashes. some of the studies floating

around at the summit the virginia tech transportation institute found a truck driver's risk of an accident 23 times higher, 23 times higher, while text messaging. also a study from the university of utah found a driver with a blood alcohol level of .08 obviously legally drunk in most states four likely more times to cash but eight times more likely to it have an accident while texting. the transportation secretary ray lahood says after the summit organizers will work closely with congress to possibly develop laws to ban texting while driving, then the next step is to figure out if you can actually enforce that. >> enforce it, yeah. >> you knew that's where i was going. >> that is the follow-up and we'll talk about that. you look at this and here's why something needs to be done. real-world consequences, i want you to listen to reggie shaw. he was 19, texting while driving. he swerved across the center line, clipped an oncoming car.

two men were killed. ended up dead here. now, he is going to have to live with this for the rest of his life. >> that was definitely not my intention to hurt or harm anyone. and i took two lives. >> i looked around the room and i saw jim's license in the hands of one of the police officers and i realized that he was dead. and i just started crying and repeating the word "no." >> keith was my whole world. he had his work and he was so important to his work and his work for him. but, for me, he was my whole world.

>> wow. there are the consequences, the fallout. we want it hear from you on this. 1-877-tell-hln. is the phone number. if you've done it, call in and tell us about your experience where maybe were you texting while driving. hopefully, spots like that, that's a public service announcement from utah, very powerful and very effective. maybe that'll help you change your ways because we need to, it is so dangerous, joining us is robert st. clair from aaa new york. we'll take your calls at 1-877-tell-hln. robert, is that what has to happen? i mean for us to it hear those kind of stories, as hard as it is to get us to change our ways? >> well, probably. like you have cited, there are plenty of studies that demonstrate the dangers of texting while driving. you know, it's really unfortunate and angering, to be honest, that we have to it have this discussion at all. the idea that people think that they can do all these other activities when they're driving and driving should really take all your attention. it is multi-tasking to the nth degree when you are driving,

controlling a heavy object moving at speed and have to watch road signs, be aware of regulations, weather, road conditions, other vehicles. the idea you can do something else while you are doing that is ridiculous. >> it is. >> it is unfortunate we have to send this message but obviously we have to. >> we have to change the culture, i believe. people think it's like, hopefully changing but you almost get that feeling, look at me, look how cool i am, i can comb my hair and shave and talk and text. no, we need to drive while behind the wheel. kim is with us from ohio. go ahead. >> caller: hi, mike. love your show. >> thanks, mike. >> caller: i have one experience texting and it changed my life forever. >> what happened. >> caller: it was late at night. i was texting my son and i thought, well, it's safe. i'm going to text him back. next thing i knew, not only had i crossed the lane of the road, i was approaching the sidewalk. had it been daylight it could

have been a completely are different circumstance and i could have harmed another child and we don't need any studies to prove this is dangerous. >> right. >> that's right. >> caller: i'm living proof. >> kim, thanks for the call and for sharing your story. i'm sure there are others out there. i admit i have done it a couple times myself. i stopped myself, what you are doing? it's easy to fall into that trap but face it it can be deadly. robert, to your point, why do we need a summit on this let's get laws passed and ban this nationwide. >> well, 13 states have already passed bans and we are looking for bans to be nationwide at least by 2013 and probably that's too long to wait, to be honest with you. we need to have a ban immediately. in new york, in my state here, we have a band but unfortunately it's a secondary ban meaning a police officer has to see you doing something else committing some other infraction before they can pull you over for texting while driving. it just reflects the lack of seriousness we have in this country toward driving. we are probably the only country

in the world that takes driving so slightly. we have such poor driver training. driver's ed in high high schools has been dropped, not that it is very good but at least a first start getting the first attitude into youngsters' heads they need to have about driving and bad driving youngsters become bad driving adults. >> we've looked at the video the bus driver texting his girlfriend and saw him plow into the car ahead of him. that's what we have to understand, that quick, look down and look up and you could be involved in an accident. >> all it takes is two seconds, two seconds your eyes being off the road and can lead to a crash. just two seconds. >> i want to listen here, robert, to john kaiserman, the gentleman driving the truck in that utah incident. the accident wasn't his fault but his truck hit the car of the two men and ended up killing him. let's listen to him and what he saw as this unfolded. >> the driver of the vehicle ahead of me had seemed to be distracted most of the way over the mountain and crossed over the center line on more than one

occasion. and -- and i do remember on that particular occasion of the accident that, as he crossed over the center line and i -- you do the math in your head and you see the car coming, you think this is not going to be good. >> okay. well that, leads to a couple of questions here, robert. number one is, what do we do? because we've all seen it, driving along you look over, somebody is swerving a bit, sure enough have a cell phone and texting away. what can we do? is there anything? just pull over until they get out of the way. >> calling 911 and giving the license plate. i've had the occasion doing that a couple times myself. if you see something going on on the road that's untoward and dangerous notify the authorities. it may not lead to something immediately happening but at least somebody will know. it's very -- >> right. >> -- almost impossible really to respond to the situation on our own. you don't want to take the law into your own hands. >> no, we don't want to talk about vigilanteism here.

>> exactly. >> we have talked about enforcement, how are we going to enforce this? law enforcement officers have their work cut out for them peering into vehicles to see if someone is texting or not. >> when we face situations like this one of the three es we say you need engineering, education or enforcement. enforcement is not going to do the whole job. education is going to be primary. we have to get the message out to people of all ages that driving is very serious, that it requires all your attention, unfortunately, like i said before, driver's ed has been cut. parents now have the responsibility of training their youngsters on their own, aaa has lots of great material that parents can use to help train their youngsters, but we have to send a much more serious message. >> serious message, that's the key. >> number one cause of death for a teenager in the united states is a car crash. the number one cause of death for a male from birth to age 44 is the car crash. >> that's what we've got to hit on. robert, we have to run. always good having you on. >> take care. >> a woman threatened with jail

for helping out neighbors. let the kids hang out her house before school. some busy-body neighbor calls state authorities now she's accused of running an illegal day care. give me a break. call in on this one, 1-877-tell-hln.

an exciting week on hln, the debut of "the joy behar show."

a good one tonight, her guest ann coulter, quite a mix. they battled before as joy behar hosted "larry king live" recently. it's right here on hln. check it out, 9:00 eastern right after nancy grace. how ridiculous can you get with this. you try do the right thing, help your neighbors. we need more of that. then this happens, a mom threatened with jail time for being nice, watching her neighbors' kids before they get on the school bus. lisa snyder lives in front of the bus stop and offered to help three moms in the neighborhood to keep an eye on their kids for less than an hour free of charge until the bus showed up. amairnl another neighbor got wind of it and reported her to the state of michigan. now, if mom keeps it up she faces 90 days in jail a thousand dollar fine. the state says, it's an illegal day care? brother. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining us, the hardened

criminal herself, lisa snyder. the babysitter in question here. also with us, criminal defense attorney bradford cohen. lisa, starting with you, you had to be floored when you found out you could be in trouble for watching your neighbors' kids. >> up, yes, i was because i've never done anything wrong in my life. >> what happened? tell us how it unfolded, you found out you were in trouble or could be? >> caller: i received a letter on september 11th from the state department. my house is a bus stop. and it all kind of unravelled from there. >> so, they told you what? what infraction, what law could you have broken here? >> caller: the act number 116 of public acts of 1973. >> a little archaic there. >> caller: yes. >> all right. where are you now, still helping out your neighbors or have you had to stop? >> the one boy that comes for an hour, i have stopped, but the other boy, his mom is a widowed mom and she lives right up the road and i have not stopped

doing that. but, he does not come in the house. that's where it gets tricky. if he comes in the house it is considered day care. if he stays out on my porch it's not. >> brother. who told on you? who's the neighbor here? >> caller: we're not sure. the state department just said that it was a neighbor in our neighborhood. >> okay. all right. let's bring in bradford. let's go over this law i'll read it real quick. >> sure. >> you can help us out. michigan law as lisa said 1973 a private home can qualify as a day care if one to seven minor children all unrelated to the caregivers receive care for less than 24 hours a day and for more than four weeks in a year. when are they just going to throw this out? especially in a case like this. come on. >> yeah. well, what happens is generally what happens is someone gets charged with it and they hire an experienced criminal defense attorney that will challenge the legality of it, really an overly broad, poorly written statute and that's really what you're looking it. it makes crimes out of things that really shouldn't be crimes.

if you read it technically it would make illegal if you had a babysitter come into your own home and watch your kids. it would make illegal if you had your child have a friend sleep over your house. it's really an archaic, really archaic statute and i think the reason why it's still on the books because no one has challenged it. they probably haven't brought a prosecution based on this statute in probably quite some time. >> speaking of challenging, lisa, are you fighting it? >> we have the state rep's support, jennifer granholm just got on board a couple days ago. the director of the department of human services, he issued a statement saying that i think they might have jumped the gun a little. so, yeah. >> do you think? >> the nice thing is, she wasn't actually charged with a crime yet. i think the state attorney wouldn't even go that far. i would be shocked, floored if they actually went that far. sending the letter in itself wasting the time in sending

letter is shocking in itself. >> exactly. well put. coming up on "prime news." retrice richardson has not been seen. my colleague jane velez-mitchell has been following this.

welcome back. how terrifying. the father of the missing california woman believes his daughter is being held against her will. retrice richardson was drunk, unable to pay her bill and cops

arrested her and let her out of jail in the middle of the night. now she is missing. jane velez-mitchell is following this. get us up to speed. we've got differing stories from what her parents are saying and sheriffs are saying, right? >> especially her parents are saying they should not have let her out. law enforcement said we tried to convince her to stay. we said we'll give you a bunk. we'll feed you breakfast and she still left. so those are two of the differing opinions. this is really a case that is where everybody is looking at it from a different angle and telling a totally different story. bottom line is this 24-year-old executive assistant who is a college grad shows up at joffries, a tony restaurant. she orders food, comes up with a $90 tab and doesn't have money

to pay. it goes downhill from there. cops find a small amount of pot in her car, car impounded, released 1:30 in the morning. that's begins to heat up as to why did they let a woman with no car and apparently no cell phone and no purse walk out into the dead of night in an area where if you have ever lived in los angeles, you can't really walk anywhere but especially not at that location, which is about 13 miles inland from the coast, in a relatively remote area. now, again, we're going to talk to law enforcement tonight. we're also going to talk to the owner of the restaurant, because everybody is giving a different analysis of the situation. the owner of the restaurant says hey, we were just trying to help when we called police. we weren't trying to get her -- >> so they called the cops. was she being unruly, had she been drinking too much or was it flat out she couldn't pay her bill? >> some people at the restaurant say she appeared intoxicated and a valet said she said strange

things. one was i'm from mars and i came here to avenge michael jackson's death. now, we have no idea what context she said that in. maybe if she felt hassled, she could have said sarcastically i'm here to avenge michael jackson's death but her own family is admitting she struggled with depression. they revealed that last night on "issues." we had the father on. he was furious because he said cops should have realized that she's not in her right mind and taken her to a hospital room, like they did with britney spears when she was having her meltdown and they kept her against her will. that's what he thinks should have been done. it's a huge controversy tonight on "issues." >> we'll be watching. "issues" coming up at the top of the hour. coming up on this program, a beating caught on cell phone video. we have shown it to you. a 16-year-old, derrion albert, ends up dead. we will get an update on the number of arrests and what a community is doing to stop the violence.

tonight, disturbing new questions in the missing in mal i you look mystery as family members desperately search for mitrice richardson. this young woman's life turned upside down, simply because she couldn't pay a $90 tab at a swanky seaside restaurant. she was arrested, cops released her in the dead of night, and she hasn't been seen since. now her frantic family is demanding answers. it's been nearly two weeks since she vanished. so why hasn't video been released from the restaurant or the police station? this is malibu. there has to be a video camera somewhere. tonight, the family asks are cops trying to hide something? meanwhile, we have to ask the terrifying question, is she dead or alive?

plus, shocking claims rattling the nypd. how did an allegedly drunken cop who reportedly ran over a woman trying to cross the street, killing her, register a blood alcohol content of 0.0? meaning no alcohol. maybe it's because this guy was given seven hours to take a blood test. were the boys in blue looking out for one of their own? "the new york post" says the nypd is now looking into a possible coverup. did police on the scene give their fellow cop chewing gum and water to cover up the smell of alcohol? "issues" starts now. tonight, an escalating war of words in the mystery of the woman missing in malibu. los angeles sheriffs officials fire back at the missing woman's angry family, saying hey, don't blame us. the parents of 24-year-old mitrice richardson are desperate, naturally, to find their missing daughter. they say police are completely stone-walling them. two weeks ago, mitrice was

arrested in malibu and then released from a sheriff's station on foot in the middle of the night, in the dead of night, with no phone, no purse and no ride. this all began when the college educated executive assistant couldn't pay her $90 tab at a very posh malibu restaurant. cops say they found a small amount of pot in her car which they impounded. witnesses say it was obvious this young woman was in emotional distress. her family says cops totally dropped the ball. >> i'm upset. but i'm going to keep a level head because i've been asked to. but i don't expect for these people to move because they haven't. >> we want our daughter found. we feel that there's not been enough effort to locate her. all we want is our daughter home. >> now, law enforcement says they're doing everything they can to find mitrice and are defending their actions on the night she vanished. here is what the captain of the l.a. county sheriff's department

told a local blogger, quote, the female jailer spent a long time trying to convince mitrice richardson to stay at the station, offering her a bunk, secluded from all the inmates. she told her it was better that she stay until the morning, even offered her breakfast and allowed her to make multiple phone calls. i know the family is distraught and rightfully so but the deputies and the jailer are not the villains in this situation. the attorney for mitrice's family tells a totally different story. he says there's a cover-up going on and he claims to have audiotapes to prove it. we will address those tapes in a moment but first, joining me on the phone, i'm delighted to have steve whitmore, senior media advisor for the l.a. county sheriff's department. steve, i want to give you a chance to respond to all these accusations. now, here's a clip from leo terrell, the family's attorney. this is what he said last night right here on our show, "issues." let's listen. >> we were at the lapd station last night, jane. we asked to see the police report. after 15 days, they would not

release it. we asked to get the phone messages from the calls she made. they refused to release it. there is a cover-up going on right now. >> all right. steve whitmore, those are pretty strong words. you represent the sheriff's department. has a police report been published? what about these tapes of phone calls that we hear could exist? >> well, let me first deal with the police report. and the police report routinely, they are not released during an investigation. however, because we have nothing to hide, we have worked in consort with the district attorney's office and that police report was released to the family's representative today. if they have not picked it up already, it is waiting for them to pick it up. so routinely, police reports -- >> will we be able to get a copy of it, steve? >> well, the attorney will have it. the family will have it. >> but will you release it to the public, to us, to look at? >> it's up to them to release it. >> really? i would think it would be up to law enforcement to release their

own report. >> once they get it, they can do what they will with it. we have nothing to hide. we have never had anything to hide. >> let me just say this. >> if i may say something. >> okay. >> the most important thing what we are interested in, the only thing we're interested in, of course, i will try to answer any question that you ask -- >> right, right. okay. >> that is this. is to find her. >> okay. >> ever since -- >> what about the mom who says there were reports that came in from neighbors saying hey, she's sleeping on a porch, she's sleeping here, she's sleeping there, and the mom claims that law enforcement didn't follow up on those quickly enough? >> right. well, we did get a report at 6:30 about in the morning on thursday morning. in fact, i can tell you exactly when it was. >> okay, 6:30. >> we got the report. we responded by 6:50. we were there and the individual that was reported there had already left. we are 85% sure that this was miss richardson so we responded as quickly as we could.

>> how far could she get on foot? i mean, she's just walking by herself on foot, apparently, and she's -- >> we started, as you know, when the missing person report was filed with us at about 3:00 that friday, we of course started looking for her immediately. it is a los angeles police department lead, but that doesn't mean that we aren't looking every single day. >> all right. steve, let me just jump to this other part because this is important and i want to give you a chance to respond. the richardsons believe mitrice may have suffered some kind of mental or emotional breakdown and they think your guys should have done more to protect her. listen to mitrice's dad on last night's show talk about that. >> what should have happened based on that is they should have did a behavioral health assessment or had someone from case management come out and evaluate the situation for a possible 5150. >> you are ridiculous. >> eyewitnesses said my daughter

was acting behavioral health. nine witnesses. the police refused to give us tapes. the restaurant refused to give us tapes. i had to record them to get the information that i need. they were well aware of what was going on with mitrice richardson. they failed to -- >> all right. steve, what's your response? they're saying remember britney spears when she had her breakdown, they kept her on involuntary hold? they're sort of saying you should have done the same thing. >> well, we did try to convince her to stay, but it must be once again, instead of getting into a debate and i want -- >> oh, lets. >> -- to answer the question. but the deputies that responded did an extensive field sobriety test. what that includes is not only checking the pupils but the speech and as well as checking the pulse and talking to her extensively. nobody came up to the deputies and told our deputies about this, about behavior that was odd. they decided that -- and it's also important to note the

reason why she was taken back to the station was that the restaurant exacted what is known as a private person arrest, and there's a form that they must fill out. on that form, it demands that the individual be removed to the lost hills station. all of this as you might imagine is checked and double-checked and balanced and counter-balanced. but having said all of that, the one message that i want to keep saying is this. >> you're looking for her. i understand that. i understand that. steve, i want to say one thing. i could never be a law enforcement officer in the world. i took a test once and i shot at everybody, they told me you're never going to be a police officer, you're not temperamentally suited. i have the utmost respect for law enforcement. and i want you to know that i appreciate you coming on and talking about this. it's a big controversy because there's this missing woman and the last time she was seen was at a sheriff's station when she walked out into the dead of night. so i'm sure you understand that that's why it's a controversy.

>> i understand the questions. now, the police report has been made public to the family and to the attorney, and so that will -- they will have that. that will illuminate perhaps some of the checks and balances and some of the observations that occurred and help fill that out. the one thing that's important to note is the l.a. county sheriff's department doesn't have anything to hide. >> all right. okay. >> there's to reason to hide. >> steve, i would love to chat with you. we have so many other people who want to weigh in on this. again, thank you for being so forthcoming. we have an incredible panel to get to. they have been quite patient. but i do believe we have jeff peterson, the owner of the restaurant, joffrey's on the phone? >> yes, we do. thank you for calling. >> well, jeff, thanks for talking about this. look, we don't want to attack anybody. we want to find out what the heck happened. i mean, this girl didn't have her $90 to pay the bill and then -- >> that's where it started. but you have to understand, you guys keep mentioning like it was the $90. that was part of it. that's what started the ball rolling. but when somebody's talking about avenging michael jackson, somebody is saying they're from mars and speaking a different

language, something was off with her. we didn't know, on one hand she was talking to a table and she was being kind of just fine, just a little bit off, but something was wrong with her. and my responsibility as an innkeeper is not to put people on pch that i think shouldn't be driving a car. >> that's pacific coast highway. >> correct. it's a dangerous road. >> now, why do you think the cops found her to be totally fine and normal when people at the restaurant were saying she was cuckoo for cocoa puffs? >> they weren't saying that. i was talking to them that night. i wasn't there, i was with my family. she would do times of oddness, then she would be completely normal and then she would be odd again. and she was very sweet, very kind, but then she would talk from mars and make up languages. so -- >> she was talking in gibberish. >> she was saying she was from mars and talking in gibberish. the problem is we didn't know what to do. i didn't want to give this girl

her car keys. >> right. i can understand that. i respect that. >> the only choice i had was if i didn't arrest her for the violation of not paying, she would have been able to get in her car and go away. >> what about putting her in a cab, just out of -- >> i don't know any cab drivers that want a person who's possibly mentally ill with no credit cards, no cash, and to go on the road. she's still in danger. i don't know what's wrong with her. >> well, she's missing right now. >> no, i know. >> she's lost in lost hills. listen -- >> i hear you but i have a question. i know it's not the right time to say it but i got leo terrell saying outrageous statements. i listened to the interview, saying that we're making up, rewriting history. the man can call me and ask me what the history is. no news organizations are asking what happened. >> we are. >> i appreciate that. i'm talking about a lot of people have written stories and haven't asked us. we're the source. if somebody wants my videotape, they can have it. nobody asked for it. >> we'd like it. >> come tomorrow. i will give you my -- >> absolutely. we will get the tape tomorrow. we have to take a break but jeff, thanks for hanging in there and thank you, panel.

we got a great panel. they have been very patient. but we're getting all this breaking news coming in on this mystery in malibu. what do you think? do you think cops handled the situation correctly? we're also taking your calls. 1-877-jvm-says. 1-877-586-7297. plus, are the boys in blue covering up for a fellow cop? blood boiling new details in the alleged nypd drunk driving case that left a woman dead. first, what happened to mitrice richardson? it's been 14 days since she simply vanished in malibu. cops have yet to release surveillance videos from the scene but we just heard from the owner of the restaurant. he's going to give us the video. now her family's demanding answers. >> joffrey's will not give me a tape. they will not give me a tape. nobody will give me a report. nobody's doing nothing.

. i specifically told the deputy, this is uncharacteristic of my daughter. my daughter does not go places and not pay a tab. i continuously reiterated, something is wrong with my daughter. >> that was mitrice richardson's mom, frantic to find her missing daughter, missing in malibu,

furious at law enforcement. now i want to welcome my fantastic and very patient panel. steve kardian, former criminal investigator. cnn legal analyst, lisa bloom. clinical psychiatrist, dr. dale archer and darren kavinoky, criminal defense attorney. lisa bloom, you've been listening to all of this. it's funny, it's like where everybody's telling a completely different story and when you talk to law enforcement and you talk to the restaurant, they seem quite reasonable and actually, the owner of the restaurant seemed like very compassionate guy, just trying to do the right thing but what we've been hearing is this hellish story of this poor girl abandoned because she didn't have 90 bucks and left to her own devices. >> well, here's the problem, jane. what are we going to do, come up with a rule that says that the police cannot release an adult young woman once she's been charged, processed and is free to go? i mean, are we going to have a different rule for women than for men? of course we can't do that. the only question is did she appear to be mentally unstable at the time of her release. the police say that she didn't appear that way. even from the owner of

joffrey's, what we heard was it would go in and out, up and down. sometimes she would talk about being from mars. other times she seemed perfectly stable. if by the time of her release she was stable, she was an adult, she was free to go and she chose to go, i don't see how the sheriff's department is responsible for god knows what happened to her. i hope she's okay. >> all right. so many people want to weigh in on this. antonio, new york, your question or thought, sir? >> caller: how you doing? i have a thought. kind of a question. i watch your show every night so i've been following this story. and i'm going to use an analogy of an athlete. when an athlete is hurt, she wants to go back in. my comment is when she was in jail, when she was with the jailer, when they asked if she wanted to leave, the jailer should have been able to notice that lady was off and she should never have been able to leave on her own. was she of able mind and body to say okay, i'm ready to leave? >> good question. dr. dale archer, what's the threshold at which point you say we're going to take this woman to the hospital, have her evaluated to see if she's so

crazy, we shouldn't let her go? >> it's a very simple threshold. in california, the law is called 5150 and allows either a clinician or a police officer to hold someone against their will if they meet one of three criteria. number one, are you a danger to yourself. number two, are you a danger to others. number three, as in this case, are you gravely disabled. it's very important to understand that a psychotic condition can come and go, wax and wane, so you can appear normal some of the time but then be talking gibberish, saying you're from mars and saying you're here to avenge michael jackson's death other parts of the time. i think when you throw in the mug shot and then the fact that the next day, she's wandering around and sleeping on a porch and then leaves when they find her, all points to the fact that this was a psychotic woman who needed help and i don't see how a trained law enforcement individual could not recognize that. >> here's another angle. mitrice's mom says she planned to pick up her daughter from the sheriff's station at 4:00 in the morning but when she called at 4:30 a.m., she says cops told her her daughter had already

left. police say mitrice made several calls to the sheriff's station so darren kavinoky surely one was to her mom. she called her great-grandmother from the restaurant. was this miscommunication? did she fall between the cracks? she's calling her family and yet, she ends up walking out into the night. >> yeah. it's a great question. ultimately, really what's going on here turns on what her condition was at the time that she was being processed out by the jailers. presumably, the well-intentioned folks from joffrey's reported just as we heard tonight on your show that she was behaving very erratically and making statements that suggested she was going in and out of this psychotic situation. law enforcement is on notice about that. the question is whether or not she's lucid at the time of her release. >> darren, i've got so many other questions. i've got a question about is this another example of the war on women? yes, it is. mitrice's disappearance, another

grim example of the war on women. >> yeah, but -- >> sick commentary on our society that it is almost suicidal for a woman to be in a remote area of anywhere in america by herself at night. i mean, you know, this is malibu but take a look. meredith emerson hiking with her dog in georgia. she was just hiking with her dog. she's murdered. her killer tied her to a tree, beat her to death and beheaded her. then there was another case, a short drive from there, christi cornwell was abducted, she was walking along leaving her mom's house, talking to her boyfriend on the cell phone. this is absolutely an outrage that in america, a woman cannot even leave a law enforcement agency without literally almost behaving in a suicidal fashion. i want you all to think about that. >> absolutely right, jane. >> we will talk about that when we come back in just a moment because we've got to really appreciate the depths of this war on women. an exciting week on hln, the

debut of "the joy behar show." hot topic tonight, ann coulter. these two have faced off before when joy guest hosted on "larry king." you can imagine plenty of intense back and forth. got to watch it tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern.

i ran upstairs and woke my husband up, and we came and looked over -- out the window and my husband said are you okay, and she said i didn't know anyone was here, i'm just resting. we ran to another window to see if she had anyone else with her, and by then, she was gone. >> what happened to mitrice richardson? disturbing new questions in the case of this young woman who simply went missing in malibu two weeks ago. her world turned upside down because she couldn't pay her bill, $90, at a swanky restaurant overlooking the pacific ocean. she was arrested by police, later released by herself in the dead of night in some kind of, it's sort of like an office area, one of those industrial type places, and it's the

frontage road of the 101 freeway. that's not a great place to be. on a frontage road at 1:30 in the morning. no video has been released, but we have just learned right here on "issues" tonight from the owner of joffrey's restaurant that he is going to give us the videotape so we can examine it and show it to you tomorrow right here on "issues." again, the owner of joffrey's restaurant was saying the only reason they called police is they were concerned about her mental state. they didn't want her driving. lisa bloom, what could that video show us? >> well, it could show the erratic behavior and that's such a key issue in this case. by the way, jane, hats off to you for covering this story. we in the media cover way too many missing white women stories and not enough of people of color. i'm so glad you're covering this important story. i was actually at that restaurant a few days ago. it's a beautiful restaurant. i met the owner, jeffrey, he's a good guy. if he wants to show that videotape, i'm sure it will

demonstrate what he just told you, that she was erratic, going around to different tables, acting bizarrely. it's probably only video, not audio, so we won't be able to hear what she's saying but another key question is, did she look at joffrey's with that wild hair the same way she looked in that mug shot or did that happen in between the arrest. so i think that video is going to be very important. >> let me say this, having lived in l.a. for 18 years, a lot of people walk around with that wild hair. it means absolutely nothing. >> look at me, jane. >> steve kardian, i want to show you the google map to get an idea of the area that cops have to cover to try to find this woman, and let's show it to you. you've got the pacific ocean, okay, then about 13 miles inland is the sheriff's station. she -- home is down in south l.a. and a possible sighting, this is a hilly area, a nightmare to try to find somebody in that. >> yeah, it is. it's very possible she was picked up and dropped off by someone. they have a wide scope to search and let me just make, as a

supervisor, as a police officer for 30 years, i've done that mental health evaluation, that 5150, and you know, sometimes it's a hard decision. sometimes it's an easy decision to make. but law enforcement, if there were any preindicators, they would have detained her. there are many people that went through there. let's not be -- >> well, listen, i said that i'm a huge fan of law enforcement. but you've got to ask a question when a woman is released, a 24-year-old who has been acting strangely into the dead of night with no car, because they impounded her car. >> yeah, but jane -- >> they also have restrictions. law enforcement has guidelines and standard operating procedures that they have to follow. to deviate that could put them in great danger. >> but they're human beings. human beings sometimes make mistakes. >> guys, we will blow it out. we will come back with more because this is such a compelling subject. so many people care about it. we are going to tell you what is going on with another case in a moment. but hang in there, fantastic panel. we want to figure this one out. we will talk john couey.

geoffr . shocking claims rattling the nypd. how did an allegedly drunken cop who reportedly ran over a woman trying to cross a street, killing her, register a blood alcohol content of 0.0? meaning no alcohol. maybe it's because this guy was given seven hours to take a blood test. were the boys in blue looking out for one of their own? "the new york post" says the nypd is now looking into a possible cover-up. did police on the scene give their fellow cop chewing gum and water to cover up the smell of alcohol? we are going to get to that controversy in a moment but first, we continue to dive into this issue of mitrice richardson, the 24-year-old executive assistant who's a

college graduate, missing in malibu nearly two weeks. she went to a swanky restaurant alone. she didn't pay the $90 bill. she ended' getting arrested. i think one of the reasons lisa bloom, that this story is touching such a nerve with people is because we have all done it. i did it, just this week. i went into a local grocery store where i get a salad, and you and i both know, we're both vegans, vegetarians, we always get our solalads. i filled up the salad in the little plastic container and realized this is a cash only restaurant and i don't have any cash. all i have is credit cards. a guy standing next to me said i recognize you from "issues," i'm going to give you the $2 you need. he paid for me. i was embarrassed but i took the money and said thank you, if i ever run into you. but we have all been there. >> of course. you know, i'll pay your dinner bill any time. my fellow vegan sister. listen, this is an important point of the story. she didn't dine and ditch. she had her food and then she

said oh, no, i can't pay to the restaurant owners. they allowed her to call her great-grandma, who offered to pay over the phone, but they said we don't have any arrangements where you can pay over the phone. so it's important not to malign this poor woman who's now missing. she didn't intentionally do anything wrong. as you say, jane, she did what many of us do, sometimes you come up short inadvertently. she tried to fix it in the moment and she just wasn't able to. >> but you know what, forgive me, jane, i may be just agitating the hornet's nest here, but you've labeled mitrice as a casualty in the war on women and it may be premature to do so until we know more about exactly what happened to her. the fact of the matter is her being released by law enforcement appear now god knows what kind of end she's come to, it's not a function of her sex or of her color. i hope we would be just as concerned if it was a man -- >> oh, please. if this was a celebrity, come on, barbra streisand, cher, how many celebrities live up there. you think if cher, and i'm a big

fan of cher's, walked into any restaurant and said you know what, i don't have the $90 and let's face it, celebrities can be kooky at times, you think it would have ended up this way with somebody walking into the dead of night, the middle of the night, with no car? of course not. a limo would have been taking them back. that's what i'm saying. the world's a harsh place. >> that's a celebrity thing. that's a hollywood thing. what we're focusing on is the activities, the actions of law enforcement officers in terms of releasing her into the night in what is a fairly affluent area. this isn't downtown -- >> fairly. it's one of the richest places in the world. >> exactly. >> it's also remote. it's also a mountainous, hilly area. i live not too far from there, by the way. it's not that rich of an area over there by the 101. it's more of a middle class community. it's not malibu. that's a rich area. >> i always agree with you, lisa, but come on. >> lost hills? >> i spent -- well, not lost hills. >> that's where she was released. of. >> that's 13 miles away. >> you're right. you're right.

>> it's a middle class area, not all that great. but it's rural, hilly and not all that populated. that's what i'm concerned about. >> the point -- >> listen, let me say this. i want to see the panel. dr. dale archer, the big picture here is that we're talking about the fact that in life, bad things do happen, and the law of unintended consequences and everything doesn't always go according to script. and do we live in a world really where if somebody is suffering from depression and having a breakdown and they can't pay their $90 check, their world turns upside down and they end up missing? that's what i'm saying. that's a very cruel world. i think that's one of the reasons why this case has touched such a nerve, because it wouldn't happen to some other people. because some other people are always given the benefit of the doubt. >> it was the restaurant's call. they could have handled the issue civilly instead of criminally. it was their call. once they got law enforcement involved, law enforcement took their complaint, they took her in based upon their complaint. they could have chose to handle

it civilly, taken that credit card information, held it until the next day. it was their call. not law enforcement's. >> but the reason they didn't do that -- >> let me see the panel. okay. darren kavinoky. >> the concern on the part of the restaurant manager and i really appreciated hearing his point of view -- >> yes. >> his concern was turning her loose on pacific coast highway given her mental state at the time. so yes, they could have handled it civilly. they could have taken a credit card number but that wouldn't have protected her. that would have turned her out in a dangerous place. so -- >> once they contacted -- >> one step at a time. then they did the right thing. >> once they contacted law enforcement -- >> hold it. lisa, go ahead. >> how did she get to the restaurant? did she drive herself there? if so, why couldn't she get a ride back to her car? i mean, nobody can walk to geoffrey's. >> because they found pot in it. they found a small amount of pot in her car so they impounded her car. i'm wondering why didn't she have a cell phone. why didn't she have a purse with her. i mean, anybody walking around

without a purse or cell phone at all, and going on an extended journey, that's a sign to me that you're off. that something's wrong. >> bottom line is if she seemed lucid at the time of her release, what are police supposed to do, you're female, we can't release you at 1:30 a.m.? that's not something we can get behind. >> the point here is very simply that it is more work for an officer to fill out that 5150, then they have to watch them, then they have to transport them. that's a lot of trouble. >> that's ridiculous. ridiculous. >> i work for a program in louisiana called crisis intervention training. we train officers. the number one thing they learn through that is that it is going to take more effort to take care of a mentally ill person than it is a common criminal. we had to get the entire community involved from emergency room to the hospital to the psychiatrist to the psych ward to be able to get a complete program in place to take care of these folks. >> yeah, but that's what we have

to do if someone is mentally ill. we have to look out for them. we can't just release them out in the middle of the night. >> and get this. there's another factor here, people. there's another factor. there are some major unsolved cases in the malibu area right now that make her disappearance terrifying. brock and davina hudson were stabbed to death in their beach home last may. police say their killer wore a motorcycle helmet and snuck in through a back door. the couple's 9-year-old son witnessed the horrific attack. just two weeks later, nine miles away, 61-year-old wendy dirodio was stabbed to death in her bed. investigators are not saying the two cases are linked but they are not solved. so this is a scary question. this woman walks off into the night, but there's also these unsolved killings in this very same area. and you can take that one, steve kardian, because you're the investigator. >> yeah, well, i've read about those cases, jane, and it doesn't appear that any of them might be tied. there are dangerous people all

over the los angeles area, a lot of gang bangers, there's a lot of crime in that city. so anything could have happened to her. >> you know what, i don't think we should blame it on gang bangers. we don't see a lot of gang bangers in malibu, okay? let's give them a break. >> or out near the lost hills sheriff's station. i think this is why this story has struck such a nerve with people, because law enforcement is charged with protecting and serving and here, this woman is in the custody of law enforcement officers who have that obligation and it appears that they breached that obligation by turning her out -- >> they can't just keep somebody for their own good. they can only keep them if they're a danger to themselves or others or are gravely disabled. >> exactly. >> let me see the panel. >> the woman was gravely disabled. come o how can you not say she was gravely disabled with all of the things that you've heard? of course she was. >> that's exactly what the cops are saying, that she seemed fine. >> but at the time of her release, she might have seemed okay. she might have put on a good front. >> strange behavior doesn't

constitute 5150. >> i want to talk about the big issue. the big issue is darren kavinoky challenged me when i said this is an example of the war on women, that we live in a world where a woman walking out into the dark of night is literally almost attempting suicide and it's a sad commentary on our society that whether it's me going to walk my dogs in the park or this woman walking out into a semi-residential business area, if we walk alone at night, there is a war on women and that's why everybody's so worried that she left and that sadly could be the reason that she's not -- that she's vanished. >> i'll give you the war on women but i will also -- >> clarify this for the record. it's not that i object to any notion that a war on women is a bad thing. of course it's a horrible thing. i'm just saying that criminals are equal opportunity predators

and that it applies just as equally to men. >> you're wrong. men are not raped at the rate women are raped. men are not attacked sexually at the rate women are attacked sexually. of course, we all pray she's okay but there was probably some kind of predator who got her. that is an unequal opportunity kind of crime. it happens to women. >> a man -- >> pure speculation. >> you're absolutely right, lisa. a man could have left that sheriff's station and the chances of something horrible happening to him are much smaller than something happening to a woman. thank you, fantastic panel. we are going to stay on top of this story. we want to find this woman. maybe she's somewhere alive in l.a. and for some reason, hasn't come forward. a possible cover-up inside the nypd. a cop accused of killing a woman while driving drunk. so why did it take so long, seven hours plus, to give him a sobriety test? i want to hear from you on this one. give me a call. 1-877-jvm-says. 1-877-586-7297. ododododododododd

did the first cops to arrive at the scene of a fatal hit and run try to cover up an allegedly drunk fellow officer? that is next. but first, "top of the block" tonight. convicted child killer john couey died in jail today from natural causes. couey had been on death row for abducting and murdering 9-year-old jessica lunsford four years ago, one of the most revolting cases in memory. he didn't just murder her. he buried this beautiful, innocent little child alive. he was on death row but he died before he could be executed. you could call that nature's version of justice. that's tonight's "top of the block." explosive new developments

at nypd cop allegedly drives drunk and smashes his car into a woman, knocking her high into the air and killing her. it is a big story on the cover of "the new york post" and "the new york daily news." take a look at the headlines. now, "the post" says cop dui plot. "the daily news" says no booze in blood. and they are right. tonight, the stunning results of officer andrew kelly's blood alcohol test. it was a big, fat zero. in fact, it was triple zeros. he had no alcohol in his system, zip, nada. why? could it have anything to do with the fact that cops waited more than seven hours after the crash to test their fellow cop's blood? you think? could there perhaps be a connection? authorities say he definitely seemed wasted at the scene. >> the officers who responded to that accident detected the smell of alcohol on the driver's

breath. >> now, shocking new accusations. will more cops go down for how they handled this allegedly wasted fellow cop? "the new york post" reports detectives are investigating whether or not cops who responded to the scene gave officer kelly some chewing gum and some water to mask his boozy breath. officer kelly refused a breathalyzer and reportedly yelled i tried my best, i gave her cpr as the victim lay dying. the victim's mother says the blood from my daughter is on andrew kelly's hands. they left my daughter on the ground like she was garbage. a horrifying new witness attack says she died a painful death, quote, she was breathing slowly, she was hit on the right side. her right leg was broken. she was still alive, end quote. authorities have new video evidence that shows allegedly officer kelly guzzling drinks at

a bar, then driving away. will that be enough to override those 0.000 results? straight out to my expert panel. steve kardian, you're a former police officer. again, these are just two stories we happen to be covering today. we're not trying to beat up on law enforcement but we have to ask the question. could this be a giant cover-up? >> jane, there's always that possibility, but take a look at this. when i came on early on as a police officer and apparently, he gave her cpr, mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. when the officers got on the scene, anybody that's done cpr on a person that's dying, it's the taste of death. it's possible. and if he was intoxicated and he hit her, then he should go down for it. but there is a possibility the officers arriving gave him gum, gave him water to rinse out his mouth. >> oh, okay. i didn't think of that. but i think the bigger question, lisa bloom, is the fact that they waited more than seven hours, seven hours and 20 minutes, before they took the blood and it came up zero. >> there is no excuse for that.

there's absolutely -- jane, do you think that if you or i were involved in a dwi they would wait seven hours to test us? >> no. >> come on, especially an accident causing injury or death. there is absolutely no way. that's inexcusable. i have yet to hear any excuse from law enforcement as to that seven-hour delay. half an hour, one hour, okay, maybe. seven hours, absolutely no excuse whatsoever. that is shameful. >> and i think tonight's big issue is, is this a pattern. is there a blue wall of silence where cops help out fellow cops? an eerily similar case out of chicago last night. this chicago police officer was allegedly drunk when he killed a 13-year-old kid on a bike, then left the scene. four hours passed before chicago police administered -- four hours -- their fellow officer a breathalyzer test. he came up just a hair below the legal limit. now, this one is a 17-year veteran of the police department. he was reportedly hanging out at a bar before the crash.

darren kavinoky, do you see a pattern here? >> well, it's certainly possible, and it's certainly not beyond law enforcement officers to try and help out their brother officer by engaging in this horrible cover-up behavior, and if it is cover-up behavior, it's absolutely horrible. they may not get away with it, though. because in these driving under the influence cases, there are multiple factors that prosecutors usually point to to convict somebody of driving under the influence. driving pattern, field sobriety test performance, the way that they appear and certainly, refusing to take that roadside breathalyzer can be introduced as consciousness of guilt. so -- >> the defense is trying to take this ball and run with it, dr. dale archer. this is the lawyer for the officer who was accused of vehicular manslaughter and dui. quote, we embrace the results and believe when the evidence comes out and all the witnesses give their statements, it's going to come out that this was an accident, end quote.

that this was an accident. they're taking this 0.00 and running with it. >> well, here's the thing. most people, a people, a blood l of 1.0 will be zero after seven hours. so he would have had to have had a level of well above 2.0 to still be above the legal limit of .08 when the test was given after seven hours. so i mean, it's just -- it's reprehensible, to quote the mayor. and the other thing i think in terms of the blue waufle silence that the officers have to realize, this gives all police a bad name. >> of course. and most of them are law abiding and do a great job, and i love them. we're not trying to beat up on the police. we need to realize the face of alcoholism isn't just the bum on the corner with a brown paper bag. it could be a law enforcement officer. or a news anchor. this is national recovery month, a great time to get sober. in "iwant" you'll learn a lot about my struggle with alcoholism and how i finally overcame it 14 years ago.

you can get my recovery memoir. it's out now in bookstores. or go to cnn.com/jane look for the order jane's book section. if you're an addict or relative of an addict this book can help you. stay right there. more on the alleged boozy cop in a moment.

the car was coming, and they're like, veronica, come back across the street, and i guess as she turned around -- well, she tried to turn around. the car hit her on the right side. >> they said that the car hit her so hard that she almost hit the traffic light. >> and as a result of that officer andrew kelly has pleaded not guilty to vehicular manslaughter and dui. you know, every time something like this happens people want to say it's just an accident. cops say diane schuler killed seven people, including her nieces and daughter and if you count her eight, driving drunk the wrong way down a highway. listen to the excuses her husband and his attorney threw out there.

>> my heart is clear. she did not drink. she's not an alcoholic. >> she was diabetic. >> something medically had to have happened. >> she had a bump on her leg which was traveling towards her brain. >> she is not an alcoholic. >> dr. dale archer, denial, enabling, and co-dependency come in many different forms. >> yeah. it's classic, jane, as you well know. and the family members will support oftentimes the alcoholic till the day they die. and i've had patients in my office where the individual is saying i'm an alcoholic, i need help. and their spouse will be sitting right next to them saying no, you're not an alcoholic, you don't need any help, you're fine. so it's a problem. >> here's the bottom line. we've covered too many of these cases. we're seeing too many deaths. if you have any alcohol in you, if you've had one drink, a half of a drink, don't get behind the wheel of a car. it's as simple as that.

we don't want to be arguing about .08 or 1.0. if you have any ak ol in your system, don't drive. and that's especially easy in new york when you have so many alternatives, a bus, a cab, a subway, on foot. just don't get behind the wheel of a car. >> absolutely. you know, i write about this in my book, and i talk about this russian roulette nature of alcoholism. "i would go out on the town way friend determined to just have a couple of drinks. i would get plastered. i would have a conversation with somebody i hardly knew. i would wake up the next morning with a horrible hangover and call my friend for a damage assessment meeting." that's what i would call it. "we would laugh about all the silly things that happened the night before and then i would experience a rush of euphoria. i wasn't in trouble. i'd gotten away with it." the problem is eventually, steve kardian, you don't get away with it, something bad, really bad happens. >> yeah, jane, with madd and sadd and all the dwi enforcement that law enforcement is engaging in over the years there's just no reason that a person can't spend 20 bucks or 10 bucks for a cab. you're absolutely right.

lisa's correct. >> but the practical problem is that once people drink the alcohol the judgment goes out the window. and so that's ultimately what happens in the case of many people who engage in that drinking and driving behavior-s they'll go out not intending to do anything wrong or not intending to engage in criminal behavior. >> of course not. >> but once you've got a head full of alcohol it's -- >> we've got to leave it right there, but let me just say that this cop said allegedly he drank six to eight beers. the cops say he smelled of booze. there's supposedly a video of him drinking. but i still don't know without the blood alcohol level if they're going to get a conviction on this case because the cops dropped the ball. let's call it what it is. not doing a test sooner. an exciting week on hln. the debut of "the joy behar show." and it's a good one tonight. joy's guest, conservative commentator ann coulter. it's a potent mix of opinions. watch the fireworks tonight when ann coulter appears on "the joy

behar show." 9:00 eastern. you're watching hln.

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