right now on "showbiz tonight." it's war. jon gosselin's incredible move to shut down jon and kate plus 8 after he got fired from the show. now jon is being called erratic, opportunistic. tonight, "showbiz tonight" with the jon gosselin smack down. the rabbi tells all. showbiz tonight's explosive on

one with the rabbi who recorded disturbing conversations with michael jackson. tonight the tough questions. >> how do you convince people who might be questioning your motives that this is not yet another betrayal of michael. >> the rabbi tells all in the interview you will see only on "showbiz tonight." plus, showbiz shockers. is convicted dog killer michael vick really getting a sponsorship deal with nike? the news about sarah palin's new book and the sex secret heidi montag revealed. tv's first, most provocative entertainment news show starts right now. i'm a.j. hammer broadcasting tonight and every night from new york city. what a day it's been and tonight

it is war. jon gosselin took action today to try to end jon and kate plus 8. you heard me right. days after being fired by tlc, jon is refusing to let tlc into the house to shoot the show. these extraordinary developments made for big news breaking. tlc suspended production today after jon gosselin filed a cease and desist order demanding they stop taping the show. he posted a sign telling them to get lost. he said he is doing this to protect the kids. she fired back saying he never had a problem with the kids being on tv until he got fired from the show. whose side are you buying? there is more. tlc is having none of this. they lashed out and called jon erratic, self destructive and

unprofessional. it's an all out battle. "showbiz tonight" dares to ask, is the family implode something joining me in hollywood, a correspondent for extra. an attorney with mid-win charles and associates. this is out right war between jon and kate. they posted this notice on the front gates of the home they own together banning tlc cameras from the property. jon is saying he wants to end the show for the good of the kids. he wants to protect them. this is what his lawyer told entertainment tonight and astonishing to me. he realized his family was like a train wreck. he put the brakes on the divorce and the show. if he didn't, the family would be in a mortal accident. the victims of a train wreck. i hear what's going on and i read the statement and i think something stinks here, considering two days ago, tlc fired him and changed the name

to kate plus eight. is jon acting like a man scorned some. >> exactly. that's what he's acting like. how many times have we seen one parent say to another, if you act that way, you can't see the kid this is weekend. we have jon saying if you act that way, you can't see the kids on tv ever. it's an example of childish behavior. tlc is handling this wrong. you get the kids out of the equation and you have jon and kate working through to their divorce on camera instead of on abc and on all these shows. get that on tlc. that's why your ratings are tanking. we are not believing this rosy image. >> you are talking and i'm noticing the great irony that jon through his behavior is trying to protect the kids, but this behavior is setting a terrible example for the kids. now is striking back and also

suggesting the only reason that he is doing this is because he got fired. you have to hear what she said. i'm saddened and confused by jon's public media statements. jon has never expressed concerns to me about our children being involved in the show and in fact is on the record as saying he believes the show benefits our children and was taping on friday with the kids. kate said jon used to share that belief until as recently as the day the network announced the change of the show and indicated jon would have a lesser role in the show. kate is upset and confused. whose side are you buying? >> it's obvious that jon is not trying to do anything but protect his check. jon is upset they pull the plug on him and he's lashing back in one of the few ways he can. look how quickly. it sounds as though it was

something potentially brewing overtime. the swiftness and the quickness of how they went into court and got the cease and desist. >> for happened lightning fast and is not making it up. "showbiz tonight" has dug up the proof as to whaticate is saying. he told prime time they were fine staping the show. >> do you think if the show is the right thing for the kids? if they said you don'tment it, i would stop it. i won't make them film. >> that are doesn't wash. you tell them what to do. they are 5 and 8. >> they are not forced to film if that's what you are getting at. >> jon knows he said that and it makes him look like a doof us. >> it does. what legal advice is he getting when the lawyer said great, we will put out the statement when the lawyer should know your

client said on national and several other instances the kids don't mind taping. he is just trying to get back at tlc by using his own kids. >> doof us is the clinical term i close to use. tlc was not happy with the cease and desist order. tlc responded by suspending production today, but then let jon have it. they slammed him in the statement. we are aware of jon gosselin's recent statements and remain deeply disappointed at his erratic behavior and his latest comments are inaccurate, without merit and clearly opportunistic. until now, tlc has been publicly supportive of jon. now i hear this 180. they are sweating bullets that the biggest show has gone down the tubes. it is jon's house, not tlc's house. if he was going to get back at them, this was the way to do it. >> it really is.

he is the second half of the family and the marriage. he does have a say in what happens to the children. they are not divorced yet. there is no custody issue yet. he does have a say as to whether or not the children can be in the show. that said, not only did he say in the interview he had no problem with the children being filmed, but his actions also support that statement. he has been filmed almost every day up until this week. it makes no sense and has no credibility. >> unbelievable contradiction. did jon deserve to get fire friday the show? this is what we asked in the question of the day. the first wave came in. a huge response. did he deserve to be fired from jon and kate. look at this. 75% said yes. it was a good thing. 25% said no. not everybody is behind kate here. our facebook wall lit up.

look at this. kate makes me sick. i hope whatever he is trying to do works and they cancel the show. it seems to me everybody is going to be a loser in the end. jon, kate, tlc and sadly as we talked about before, the kids. >> $75,000 an epicode is what they were rumored to be making. you are flushing that down the toilet. if i'm the kids, we need to have them get together and say our college money is going bye-bye. can you get it together and work something out, please? >> let me not be hypocritical, but it would be terrific for the kids if the show gets shut down, but kate has said this is what we need to do to support the kids. i don't know, doesn't it ultimately make sense for them to put a halt to the show? >> i have been one to say i didn't think it was a good idea for the children to function

normally in society as they become adults. to see the parents bickering on air for everyone to see is detrimental to them. >> i thank you. these are unbelievable turns in the very ongoing sad saga. i appreciate you being here tonight. what do you think? as we said, it's the question of the day. you can sound off. did jon gosselin deserve to be fired? you can vote and you want to tell us more, please e-mail us. "showbiz tonight" at cnn.com. moving o the rabbi tells all and we are talking about michael jackson's advisor. this was the guy that recorded the disturbing conversations with michael. i ask him the tough questions. >> how do you convince people now who might be questioning your motives that this is not yet another betrayal of michael? >> some people are slamming the rabbi.

what does he have to say? you have to watch this. the explosive headline-making interview you will see only on "showbiz tonight." also tonight, it's showbiz shockers. hang on a second. is michael vick the guy who was sent to prison for arranging brutal and cruel dogfights? is he signing a deal with nike? a showbiz shocker from one of the biggest reality stars out there. >> i want to have children and i want to have children sooner than later and my husband doesn't want to have children at all. >> startling sex secrets from the hills star heidi montag. even if you are not a heidi fan, you will want to hear this. this is "showbiz tonight" on hln. more stories from the "showbiz tonight" newsroom.

>> did you have an abortion? >> yes, i did. >> did he know? >> he paid for it. >> mackenzie phillips had a sexual relationship with her dad and he might have gotten her pregnant. her half sister, china opening up about the allegations that rocked her family and hollywood. i'm aj hammer and china phillips said i believe mackenzie. i sat down with china philliping from the group wilson phillips who is her half sister. she is standing by mac's side. some in the family don't believe she and her dad john phillips had a long time sexual relationship. >> i do. everyone is going to have their personal opinion about the subject. i choose to believe her and others don't. >> fair enough. you have said you wish that she handled this privately.

>> yeah. it's a huge revelation. it's something by poor dad is not even here to talk about and that makes me sad that he can't defend himself or talk about it publicly. he doesn't have a choice and that makes me sad. >> she was open about the topic, but does she have revelations about defending her sister? you will find out on friday here on "showbiz tonight." did you see this? conan o'brien versus the state of new jersey. we know the garden state gets beat up by comedians and they say the state smells and has too many roads. one mayor is fighting back. when conan dissed his town, he dissed back. if you diss newark, prepare to be dissed back. the mayor -- >> conan o'brien took a swing at

our city. >> the mayor wants to set up a program to improve newark residents. maybe the health care program will consist of a bus ticket out of newark. the mayor fired back on you tube. >> did you hear what conan o'brien said about newark? >> who is conan o'brien? >> you don't mess with newark like that. >> i'm officially putting you on the airport no-fly list. try jfk, buddy. >> some thought the mayor was serious, call together an abuse of power and it was more of an abuse of humor. "saturday night live" had an impersonation of new york's governor, david patterson. >> you take the holland tunnel straight to new jersey.

the tourism federation has been around 30 years and the initials have taken on new meaning. >> i decided i'm going to do a segment called what the. [ bleep ] . >> wtf moment. >> the modern family has not gotten the word. >> i surf the web and i text lol, omg, wtf. the wisconsin tourism federation saw their initials mocked on websites like your logo makes me barve, wtf made the switch to tourism federation of wisconsin. what's new jersey do? >> try jfk, buddy. >> i must tell you, we're getting tons of calls all about

roman polanski. just today, kirstie alley went on a rant against stars who were defending him. louise doesn't care that it's been 30 years since he had sex with the girl. >> it's ridiculous the way people are taking up for him when he broke the law even though it happy 30 years. he has not paid for his crime yet. what are we supposed to do, bring out a band and have a parade for him? i think not. >> we heard from george et who called in. george et agrees with kirstie alley and doesn't understand how stars can defend roman. >> the question needs to be asked, if their 13-year-old child was sexually manipulated by a 40-year-old man, would there reaction be that their child's rapist serve less than two months and be allowed to continue as usual?

>> thank you. the phone lines are always open. the rabbi speaks tonight. my explosive on with the rabbi who takes personal and sometimes very disturbing conversations with michael jackson. >> this is michael in his own words. the book speaks for itself and the tape speaks for themselves. >> some say he betrayed michael's trust. i ask the rabbi what he thinks of the critics. the interview you will see only on "showbiz tonight." also showbiz shockers. more unbelievable news today about sarah palin's brand-new book. it's not even out. calling all joy behar haters, watch out. she is not scared of you. >> so glen, rush, bill, i invite all of you to come on the show and discuss things like rational

adults. even if you are a big bunch of doody heads. >> you get em, joy. this is "showbiz tonight" on hln. more stories from the "showbiz tonight" newsroom making news right now.

>> holy smoke. showbiz caught on tape a stranger racing up a burning building to save a young boy in new york city. the man ran up the fire escape and pulled the boy from his apartment and gave him cpr. welcome back. i can't believe what i just saw. this fire hero followed it up by going on "good morning america" and right there on live tv proposed to his girlfriend. watch this. >> this is desiree right here. i have something to tell you. you know that i'm a handful already. we both know that.

i promise you one thing, there is never going to be a dull moment. therefore will you marry me anyway? >> yes. >> she has a great guy. bravo to both of you. "showbiz tonight" was there for the screening the non-reunion episode that airs sunday. after 11 years, he decided to do this and in typical jerry fashion, we were scratching our head. >> when someone gives you an idea and it sounds wrong, it's right. when it sounds right, it's wrong. >> jerry referring to jason alexander's character.

tons of you have been writing on our facebook wall that jon is trying to shut down production of jon and kate plus eight. janice thinks it's a bad idea. if they stop production, no one will have an income. is that good for them and the kids? here's my idea. fire boring kate and do a show called the swinging life starring jon with lots of fancy cars and low cut dresses. sign up for facebook and twitter alerts by going to cnn.com. the showbiz lineup and what's coming up at the bottom of the hour. my explosive interview with the rabbi who recorded personal and sometimes disturbing conversations with michael jackson. >> that's why this book has been met with such a jars response. we want to believe this lie. if you are rich and famous enough, you will be happy. michael was utterly miserable. >> what does he say to critics

who claims he betrayed michael. is convicted dog killer michael vick signing a deal with nik he? the hills star heidi montack tag reveals new sex secrets today. now the showbiz news ticker and more stories from the newsroom right now.

>> how do you convince people who might be questioning your motives that this is not a betrayal of michael. >> new revelations today by the rabbi who recorded intimate conversations with michael jackson. did the rabbi betray his former friend? it's my explosive interview you will see only on "showbiz tonight." showbiz shockers. michael vick's new gig. does the man fresh out of prison for dogfighting have a money deal with nike? this showbiz shocker. >> i want to have children and i want to have children sooner

than later and my husband doesn't want to have children at all. >> news about heidi montag and spencer pratt's sex life. the drastic move spencer is threatening to avoid sex. more stories breaking. tv's first most provocative entertainment news show continues right now. bombshell revelations from the michael jackson tapes from the man who interviewed jack for over 30 hours. the rabbi came to "showbiz tonight" with big news breaking. in the explosive tapes heard on dateline, michael jackson goes into detail about his father used to oil him down to beat

him. i had to ask the rabbi what he was thinking when michael dropped that bombshell. brand-new insight of how michael's relationship with his father nearly crippled his career. the never before heard details. in more big news, i asked the rabbi point blank if he is betraying michael by releasing the tapes so soon after his death. i am telling you after this interview, you will never see michael jackson the same way again. >> i would like to listen on what we heard on dateline when they played the most explosive description of michael jackson describing the abuse by his father. let's listen. >> he would make you strip nude first and he would oil you down. it was a ridual. he would oil you down so when the flip of the ironing cord hit you, it just, you know, and it

was just like me dying. my mother would say joe, you're going to hill him. i would give up. there was nothing i could do. i hated him for it. hated him. >> it's so strong and powerful and stunning to hear the vivid description we only heard talked about before. how do you react when you hear him describe how he was beat? >> even when i hear it now it's painful. it shows a side of michael that is so contdictory to the superstar who played before million of fans. i don't think he was known as a man and we understood his brokenness. we judged and rejected him. he didn't reject his father completely after the clip. i love him today, but he was hard. michael yearned for a relationship with his father. it's what he most wanted. >> so many conflicts.

this was what his life was all about. the great conflicts. he said he hated his father, but he talks about how he loved his father and the tape i want to play, the part we heard on "larry king live" where he talks about how he wanted his father dead and can picture him in a coffin. >> i never forget this. i would say janet, shut your eyes. she would say they're shut. i would say picture joseph in a coffin and he's dead and would you feel bad? she would say nope. that's how hateful we were. he's in the kof skpin he's dead. would you feel sorry. she said nope, just like that. that's how angry we were with him. and i love him today, but he was hard. >> again, that contrast. i love him, he was hard. we imagine him dead and didn't

feel anything. how do you react to that? that's not something kids joke around about. >> not just what michael alleges physical violence, but michael feeling his father was making him a performer and he wanted to be loved for who he was and not what he did. in his mind, he was being given not affection and love, but attention. attention is for your talents and love is for your being. it's contdictory. many of us have a love-hate relationship with our parents. one of the most moving part is we'll reconcile. it's going to happen, but i have to overcome a lot and what most undermined his lust for live n my opinion is that reconciliation never took place. >> i want to go to the part where he felt so hurt by being treated as a commodity. how his brothers were treated as

commodities as well and in this portion of the tape that we heard on dateline, he describes to you exactly how much that troubled him. let's listen. >> you begin to feel thaw were like a money making machine for him. >> yes. i'll never forget you guys ever stop singing i will drop you like a hot potato. that's what he said. it hurt me. you don't say that to children. and i never forgot it. >> rabbi, do you get the impression or did you that he was more hurt by being treated as a money making machine than by the beatings he suffered at his father's hands. >> the two were link and the reason he shared them is he wanted to extract a lesson and apply it to how he raise our own kids. america loves show business and entertainers, but we overdosed on fame. for michael, fame was his drug of choice. he understand the toxic effects,

but he couldn't give it up. he was such contdictory information. there were two michael jacksons. there was a soft spoken boy and the king of pop. these tapes unearthed the boy and the boy who clung to his innocence. so much comes out about a tracks to women that were not sexual. he yearned for the childhood and he wanted to be on the monkey bars and the merry go round, would you give it up. he said no, i would never give it up. it did become an addiction. he understand that and i did. it's what we all think is about in the united states. he was causing us to question our values. i think that's why the book has been met with a jarring response. we want to believe this lie. if you become rich and famous enough you will be happy. michael was utterly miserable. >> obviously you are not blind

to some of the backlash ha is going on over your releasing this book at this time. you said you feel it is important to teach lessons for michael's life to be redechltive and to get the book out at this time. after we play the recordings, he just died a couple of months ago. how do you convince people now who might be questioning your motives that this is not yet another betrayal of michael because he speaks and we see it in the book about how he was betrayed by people who was were supposed to be looking after him. >> this is not a memoire and this is not my recollections. this is michael and the tapes speak for themselves. when a man sits down for third hours and he is holding a addict phone and he wants every word captured he is saying it because he wants people to take his words to heart. the book speaks for itself and

the tape speaks for itself. >> how do you think michael would feel about the fact that these tapes which were his thoughts of some eight or nine years ago, how would he feel about them being released now. >> looking down from heaven, if michael can see that his own voice actually changed so many hearts, i think that's exactly what he wanted and i'm thrilled that that is the impact the book is having. he deserves to be heard. we deserve to mourn a man and understand that his tragedy is not just a personal tragedy, it's an american tragedy. he was the stuff of the american dream. >> the rabbi said a substantial portion of proceeds of his book will go to family charities, including his called the michael jackson tapes, a tragic icon reveals his soul in intimate

conversation. i don't know where to begin. from heidi and spencer's sex to sarah palin's huge news. this is making my head spin. heidi montag and spencer pratt's sex life. what heidi reveals to the ladies of "the view" about her bedroom secrets. you will not believe what spencer is threatening to do to avoid sex with his wife. does the man sent to the slammer for dogfighting have a big money deal with nike? startling news about sarah palin's book and why it's sending shock waves through the country and it's not even out yet. this is "showbiz tonight" on hln. time now for the "showbiz news ticker." more stories making news right now.

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get pregnant is not have sex. >> or you can do 99% and wear a condom. >> women take pins to the condoms. >> this is not a joke. a shocker. why did heidi montag talk about her sex on "the view"? you can't make this stuff up. welcome back to "showbiz tonight." i'm aj hammer in new york. three big shockers making news right now. first off, the hills star spencer pratt is saying he's avoiding having sex with his costar wife, heidi, because he's afraid she is going to get pregnant. a huge shocker tonight. does nike want to sign an endorsement deal with michael vick and would nike be stupid enough to make a move like this? the unbelievable shocker about sarah palin's new memoire. joining me tonight from hollywood is with me in new york

and an attorney with the law firm mid-win, charles and associates. the way too much information department. heidi montag was filming as a guest cohost on "the view" and the ladies wasted no time of getting to the bottom of why they are rarely having sex and they are months into the marriage. >> i top the have children and i want to have children sooner than later and my husband doesn't want to have children at all he said. ever. he wants surgery to make sure we don't have children. >> surgery on what? >> on him. >> you top the get snipped? i have a warning for you. jon gosselin is available. >> too much information. carlos, almost more shocking to me than hearing the intimate details of their sex lives, i'm shocked she was there to cohost. >> they found a blond more annoying than elizabeth

hasselbeck. i like heidi. this is one of the smartest things spencer has done. not wanting to procreate. the girls put the pins inside the condoms and that counts like a trustworthy marriage. there was a lot of trust in the marriage right there. those two not having sex, i support it. i don't need to see any more. >> let me let you chime in. hearing about all this, is that a sure sign that the apocalypse is near? >> i agree with you. i would put this in the catalog or column of tmi. too much information. it's clear that there is not much going on with these two and this is what is available for them to talk about for the rest of the world to hear. it's ridiculous. >> pass me the purel?

i'm feeling dirty. the accused dog killer michael vick and nike signed a new deal. just today, nike clarified the relationship with vick. they are only supplying him with gear what they do with other players. endorsement deal or not, i'm shocked that any major brand would want their clothes to be seen on this guy's back. >> let me take you back to the late 80s when a star endorsed by nike, charles backly said i am not a role model. michael vick is definitely not a model. i'm amazed. nike did endorse kobe bryant and did not drop him after the allegations of rape went down in colorado. they have a history of staying with stars and this is not a smart move. >> here again was a guy who was change and found guilty. i have to imagine that nike

despite the history had to go to damage control when word got out and people were thinking they had an endorsement deal. >> they did and i'm going to take a different position. i am not that incensed by this. michael vick is someone who pled guilty and did his time. he has shown contrition and done a lot of work in animal wreck of eye and animal rights cases and the like. for nike to want to sponsor him or have an endorsement, i'm okay with that. >> very quickly, the reason you sponsor and endorse is you want someone to buy the products. they wear the shoe. who is going to buy a product that michael vick wears. he's not the person you want to emulate. >> i disagree. this is someone who has done the time. don't we live in a society where we want people to show contrition? he has done that. >> for better or worse, the association remains.

>> it does remain. >> i need to move on to the next shocker. i must get to that. two days after sarah palin moved up the release date of going rock, something happened. i bet the former governor is over the moon. presales of the book went through the roof. new numbers out today show it's number one at amazon and barnes and noble.com and we don't know what the heck is in this thing yet. >> it's number one at amazon? i've always said that sarah palin is say genius and should run for president in 2012. i always said this and have been a big supporter of her. i support this book and i'm going to read it and i think she has a brilliant mind and a chance to win the presidency in 2012. always said that. >> someone cart the lie detector in the extra studios and see him on the second floor. i have to ask you, based on

these numbers, it's amazing that the book is not out yet and should we brace ourselves for the next literary work? >> i don't see this getting to be the or tell-all book or what have you. but it is testment to the fact she has a huge following. there are a lot of people out there who support her, such as our friendly guest here today. and also there are a lot of women who love her and want to emulate her, she's got that whole mommy thing going. >> got to end it there. thank you both. well, tonight, we have joy's brand new smackdown. joy behar putting her critics on notice. >> so glenn, rush, bill, i invite all of you to come on the show and discuss things like rational adults. >> you're not going to believe the wild things they are saying about our joy.

now it's war. joy's smackdown challenge for all her haters. this is "showbiz tonight" on hln. time now for the showbiz news ticker. nor stories from the "showbiz tonight" news ticker making news right now.

welcome back to "showbiz tonight." tonight, joy's brand new smackdown. joy behar's fabulous new show debuted here on hln on tuesday night. already she has a laundry list of haters. i love joy. joy, of course, is taking the high road and inviting the people who are bad mouthing her to be guests on her show. yeah, kill them with kindness, joy. that's what i always say. if it doesn't work, a few choice words don't hurt either. and you know joy has plenty to say. >> you know, not for nothing, but my show has been on the air

for two minutes and i've been called stupid, pushy, dumb, loud mouth and a marxist. i take exception, i am not a marxist, i own property. this name calling doesn't bother me. do you think it does? bill o'reilly once called me a pinhead. yeah, he's mature. and a christian columnist named eric rush called me a fatty boone blaty. let me say something to these negative people. i am a mature woman, capable of intelligent discourse. i love to engage in cogent debate. i relish the thought of sitting down with all of my adversaries. so glenn, rush, bill, i invite all of you to come on the show and discuss things like rational adults. even if you are a big bunch of

dudy heads. >> good for you, joy. tune in at 9:00 for "the joy behar show." the question of the day is this -- these are tults are right now. 75% say yes. 25% say no. here are a few e-mails we got. >> that is it for "showbiz tonight." thank you so much for watching. i'm a.j. hammer in new york. you can always catch "showbiz tonight" on the 11s. 11:00 p.m. eastern and pacific and in the mornings at 11:00 a.m. eastern here on hln.

every hour today we're revealing our top ten cnn heroes. from miami, meet andrea. go to cnn.com and start voting for the cnn hero of the year who will win $100,000. sarah palin's new book "going rogue" has gone to number one, and it's not even out yet. now that she's making all this money, will she go away? i hope not. oscar-winning director michael moore's new movie is all about

the "c" word, "capitalism." he'll join me to talk about it. michael jackson had a diverse group of friends. there was brooke, there was bubbles and there was boteach. joining me live, not bubble, in the studio is rabbi shmuly boteach, author of the michael jackson tapes. plus, i'll share a couple of laughs with my good friend comedian jeffrey ross. all this and more from the time warner center in new york city tonight. some people hate hollywood, not just because of their so-called elitism, but also their defense of people like roman polanski. there are a few celebrity types who seem to understand that sex with a 13-year-old equals rape. for reasons i don't understand, this is still a debate.

here to help clear this up are attorney gloria allred, jami floyd, anchor of "best defense" and "in session." and john farr, contributor to the huffington post. let's start with share tate's sister. deborah tate said yesterday, there is rape, and then there is rape. gloria, rape is rape, isn't it? >> well, of course, nothing was determined, because he entered a plea. entered a plea to unlawful sexual intercourse which is a felony. which is a crime. he admitted he understood at that time she was 13 years old. even if he hadn't confessed to it, in the grand jury testimony, there was a lot of testimony from the victim, joy, that, in fact he had given her quaaludes. that he had given her champagne. there was semen in her panties. he had engaged in various acts. for example, sodomy. so i think that we have to

understand that this was a crime. >> yeah, but why are they saying -- why is the sister of sharon tate saying, you know, there's rape and there's rape? what kind of thinking is that? >> i'm not a lawyer, first of all. i'm a movie guy. >> but you play one on tv. >> i think there is a difference between statutory rape and classic rape. >> classic rape? >> i don't mean to say classic rape -- >> when you say classic rape -- >> -- where somebody is forcibly and violently pinned down and is struggling violently, et cetera. statutory rape is with a minor. >> there are -- this is what's so hard about the law. there's the emotional reaction to what we think of as stranger violent rape and then there are the classic rational classes of law. there is class d felony rape, which is what this was under the plea agreement. >> right. >> and it was unlawful sexual relations with a minor is what he ultimately pled to.

he was originally charged with sodomy and rape of a child. those are very different crimes. either way, it's disgusting. >> check out what kirstie alley wrote on twitter yesterday. she said, rape is rape. this is one hollywood star who does not celebrate or defend polanski. is it about time someone said this in hollywood? we haven't heard this yet. >> here's what i don't get. i'm a criminal defense attorney. it's my job -- gloria, you know this, right because we go back a long way. it is my job to defend people like roman polanski. i don't understand why anybody else would be. i don't understand why the "a" list comes out and defends this guy. either you're silent or you're a criminal defense attorney defending this guy. >> i was stupid enough to defend him. that's why i'm here. >> why don't you answer the question. you tell us. >> let me answer the question. when i wrote my thing on huffington, i was assuming he'd be expedited, first of all. >> extradited.

>> he could be expedited too. either way. >> extradited and expedited. >> a little nervous here. no, that he would be extradited and he would go to trial. all i was suggesting was given all the different factors of the case, that the trial should be handled expeditiously and that there should be some leniency shown. i think if you take a 76-year-old man, 30 years after the fact, when the victim doesn't even want this to be reopened, and put him behind bars for the rest of his life, i don't think that serves anybody. >> what do you say to that? >> joy -- >> okay, gloria, wait -- >> -- that the judge should consider all factors as they would in any case. that i agree with. >> go ahead, jump in, gloria. >> well, joy, of course, roman polanski has avoided the day of sentencing. but he can run, obviously, he can't hide because now he's in custody. i hope that he is going to be brought back to los angeles for this. let's remember that he has not been sentenced. which means there are still felony charges against him pending.

meaning rape by drug. perversion, which is oral copulation. giving controlled substances to minors -- to a minor. sodomy. and other charges. so these are very, very serious crimes. and hollywood should not be minimizing them. if this were a day laborer instead of a famous movie director, a rich and famous one -- >> right. >> -- would they be rallying around and saying a day laborer from another country should somehow get leniency or mercy? >> no, if he were joe the plumber, he'd be thrown into jail. peter fonda for instance told a zurich radio station that -- this is what peter fonda said, polanski is, quote, not responsible for killing. and noted the victim has asked for the case to be dismissed. murder is bad, but rape -- in a certain way, it's a violation -- it kills the soul. it's a kind of murder. so i think that that's why people are not happy about this

and they want him to be punished. >> i just think the victim's voice should be -- should be heard here. and i think it's important. also, think it's important -- >> the victim's voice -- the victim's voice can be heard at the victim impact sentencing. but this is not her case. it's the case of the people versus -- people of california versus roman polanski. and he committed a crime or crimes -- if that's proven -- against the people of state of california. and that is what's important. by the way, the victim herself has never recanted her testimony to the grand jury about what he did to her. and that she was in fear. and that she -- >> but she has filed papers asking, gloria, for this to be expedited. >> she has asked that -- >> right? >> -- this is ruining her life -- >> it doesn't mean it should be dismissed. >> she wants to move on. >> this was shocking to me. listen to what former san francisco mayor willie brown said on the "today" show. watch. >> the judge had already agreed what the sentence would be.

when the judge became concerned as a result of having to run for election and otherwise, i think, it became clear that the judge was going to go in a different direction. >> gloria, what's up with willie? >> well, willie says that he has been friends with roman polanski for 30 years. so maybe he's got, you know, maybe he's not quite as objective as he might be if he weren't friends with roman polanski for 30 years. but all i can say is it's easy to attack a judge who is no longer alive and cannot defend himself. let roman polanski come back and then he can make his argument about judicial misconduct. my guess is that's not going to be a successful argument. he's got to come back and make it and be present in the courtroom. >> go ahead. >> everyone should see documentary "wanted and desired." >> i saw it. >> in that documentary, you have the lead prosecutor and the defense attorney both saying the trial was basically a sham and

the lead prosecutor who say -- who is a mormon, imagine, you know, a straight-laced mormon, saying i can almost understand why mr. poe lapski chose to flee. isn't that rather unusual? >> he's a man. the guy is a man. let's just go there for a second. >> he's also a mormon. >> he may be a mormon, but he's a man first. >> back to what you said about peter fonda. with all due respect to my former mayor willie brown. rape is a crime of violence. this is something i think to this day men -- many men, not all men -- do not understand. they don't think of it, many men do not -- gloria, i know you and i agree on this, in that way. that's part of the problem in discussing this case. i think, and i say this as a criminal defense attorney, i don't understand why roman polanski just don't come back and face the music. this has been hanging over his head. >> he doesn't want to -- >> if he was a priest, they would have sent him to another parish. thanks to my panel. thank you, gloria. we'll be back in a bit.

for the sake of those dying people and those families, i apologize to the dead and their

testimonilies that we haven't voted sooner to end this holocaust in america. alan grayson shocked many when he played dirty on the house floor. he's not the only one. the whole congress has become one big screaming match. jeffrey ross, comedian, author of "i only roast the ones i love" is one of my guests tonight. also, s.c. cupp, author and conservative blogger. and steve, political blogger. welcome to the show. steve, does everyone in d.c. need to take a xanax these days? >> if you want to take the long view, you could say 150 years ago, an angry man from south carolina burst in, grabbed a cane and beat a man to within an inch of a life. 100 years later, they're only talking about killing each other. they actually were trying to kill each other back then. you look at grayson's outburst, whatever. it's understandable. health care has been a debate for 100 years.

almost nothing's happened. >> it never gets fixed. >> a democrat looks at it and says every time we have the debate, the pattern's the same. it's a democratic president and congress that instigate it and then it's the republicans that object and set the terms of the debate. he's trying to throw the ball back now. and it gets emotional. >> yeah, except that he's also running for office and he found out that joe wilson filled his coffers because he had an outburst. so now he's doing it. it's tit-for-tat, isn't it? >> if you look at his district, he's not the kind of guy that is supposed to do this. this is a swing distribute. this is orlando, sort of the suburbs that sprung up around disney world 40 years ago. this is district where he won in a fluke last year. otherwise, it's been a republican district for 30 years. this is the kind of guy who tries very hard to go to the right and appease the right. it's going to be really interesting to see what happens to him in 2010. >> you think people are getting meaner in congress?

either one. >> it's pretty mean. it's like the british parliament, almost. >> i enjoy that. don't you love to watch that, when they yell at each other? >> it's a little undignified. don't you think? >> no, i like it. >> i think they should have mozzarella sticks and a two drink minimum. >> i agree with you. the whole debate has become a big sound bite war. listen to this. >> if you get sick, america, the republican health care plan is this -- die quickly. that's right. the republicans want you to die quickly. >> mr. grayson, how about apologizing? mr. grayson? >> well, i would like to apologize. i would like to apologize to the dead. i apologize to the dead and their families that we haven't voted sooner to end this holocaust in america. >> where do these nutjobs come from? come on, stop this. >> these are foot-dragging, knuckle-dragging neanderthals. who think they can dictate policy to america by being

stubborn. >> it's great, isn't it? >> it's really bad. >> you missed the end of that interview where he said "but i'm not calling anybody names." >> it's harry potter's grown-up brother over here. i'm calling people names. obviously, you know, roasting is in. >> roasting is in. you were way ahead of your time. >> all these politicians have been channeling their inner roast master. next we should roast obama. >> that's another topic. comedians have pretty much avoided a lot of jokes about obama. do you think it's time now? >> i think obama's skin is very thick. i think he can take it. can be a whole bunch of jokes about the size of his stimulus package. it would be a lot of fun, i think. they're going to sling jokes in washington, might as well do it here. >> which do you think is better, death panels or die quickly? who won that sort of sound bite race? >> it's pretty bad. you know, the holocaust is really generally never a safe place to go. i think, you know -- >> i don't think he went to the holocaust. i think he meant a holocaust. >> i don't really think there's

a -- >> it's a little different. >> i don't think there's a difference. i think he's suggesting that republicans are, you know, mass murdering the american population. it's absurd. i'd like him to tell the very few lucky jews who did manage to flee nazi germany that they didn't in fact survive the holocaust, they're just victims, of another one by way of republican lawmakers who don't want a public option in health care. >> it's a little over the top, is what you're saying? >> it is. >> the republican apologized. the democrat did not. >> what joe wilson did was different. that was a formal address to congress by the president of the united states. >> was that worse? >> yeah, you have republican congressman in the last 30, 60 days. i can think of six who have goup down to the floor and said the democrat's message to senior citizens is die. so the one-minute speeches are always different. they're always a lot more inflammatory. when you have a head of state, a

president who comes in and talks to congress, a little more is expected. maybe it should be more like britain. maybe they should be jeering. >> that seems to be like -- it seems healthy arguing in england. but there's something going on right now -- i mean, that's a little scarier. i want to read something that thomas friedman said yesterday. criticism from the far right has begun tipping over into delegitimation and creating the same kind of climate here that existed in israel on the eve of the rabin assassination. and nancy pelosi, who's practically in tears about the meanness from the right wing and how she's worried it's going to create violence in the country, et cetera. there's a blog or something that they removed, asking people if they wanted to kill obama. i mean, is it scary or is it really not scary? please tell me. >> there was another -- which was also removed calling for a military coup against obama. the restore the constitution. the most unconstitutional act possible to restore the constitution.

>> where were the crocodile tears and the outrage when the left fringe were doing this against bush? when they were calling him hitler? they were likening him to a chimp? i mean, there was the same kind of stuff happening in the previous administration. >> no call for a coup. >> there wasn't the same kind of outrage and sort of faux sympathy coming out of the journalists or -- >> -- felt he had the militia behind him or something. it wasn't going to be as dangerous as it is for obama. i don't know why. he has the militia too. he could stop all of this, really, at the end of the day. if there's actual violence, right steve? >> it's climate. you're right though. you listen to the arguments being made against him. what was that, the 9/12 march in washington. i didn't attend. i saw videos. maybe i didn't get a good impression of it. i didn't hear a single rationale thought come out of anybody there. what i saw was cultural anxiety. he's triggered an emotional reaction within people to what he represents individually or what they perceive him to represent individually.

and what they perceive him to represent in terms of the people who e leshgted him. if you look at the policies of the administration, they've actually strained to go to the middle. it doesn't matter. they're just going to get called socialists anyway. >> i want to jump to another topic before we go. i have so many more things to say. sarah palin's book already has top -- has already topped ted kennedy's memoir. >> really? >> it's not even out yet. >> and dan brown. the guy who wrote "da vinci." >> she finished it early? that's her specialty, quitting early, right? >> 400 pages. thank you. i'll be right back and so will jeff ross for another segment. >> you're my best friend in the whole world and i could not be happier that you have this show.

the whole world timely gets to hear you bitch singularly. good luck, baby. hey, joy behar, i'm glad you have a show. you're somebody who should have a show. too many people have shows that shouldn't have shows. you deserve a show.

i'm back with a very funny comic, jeff ross. his book "i only roast the ones i love" is in stores now. that's it for the plugs for you. >> this is so exciting. you're like -- this is like all the hot chicks on fox news. this is so cool. >> it's cool. let's talk about your book. first of all, it took sarah palin four months to write her book. how long did it take you? >> it took a year. in all fairness, i had to use complete sentences. >> that's true. is it a tell-all? what is it about? >> it is a tell-all. it's not like mackenzie phillips talking about having sex with her father. i don't think we have to tell everything, you know? i was molested by bea arthur.

you don't see me crying about it on "the oprah winfrey show." >> you know, today we had on speidi. you know, those two? spencer and what's her name, heidi? they don't have sex, they were telling me. because he doesn't want kids. they're getting a lot of press about it. but they like it. they said there's no such thing as bad publicity. do you think there's anything like bad publicity? >> tell that to kanye west. when the president called you jack-ass, it's hard to spin that in a positive way. he's a guy who really likes to rain on people's parades. i heard today he went to a little kid's birthday party and threw the cake on the floor. >> not nice. what's the worst press you ever got? >> ooh boy. i don't know. somebody said that i saved courtney love's life once. i do take credit for that though. >> how did you do that?

>> i roasted her into rehab. it was really a scary, scary day. she was coming at me. i had my jokes. i was on the podium doing a roast. and she was coming towards me. i had to sort of shut her down with a joke. i said, courtney love, you're like the girl next door. if you happen to live next door to a methadone clinic. the next morning, she checked herself into rehab. so roasting saves live, joy. >> it does. some of the roast jokes are mean. they're very mean. >> no. >> the roast for joan rivers had a few mean -- it's mean. but they're funny. >> tricky one because -- >> you say i only roast the ones i love, do you really mean that? >> as far as joan rivers? >> yeah. >> i never roasted a dead person before, but i thought she -- joan rivers was a good sport. i said, joan river if you google her, you can find her on craig's and schindler's list. it all comes from a place of affection. >> who would you pay to be able to roast do you think? >> the joy behar roast.

that would be the greatest one ever. >> i don't like the idea because you'll say i'm fat, i'm old, i'm not attractive. >> i've had a crush on you for 20 years. >> i've sensitive and touchy about my looks. >> i think it's great you're on "headline news." i think your hair should be on the discovery channel. >> instead of the animal planet. >> i like that. >> let me tell you something, the -- what's his name, delay. tom delay was on "dancing with the stars." >> crazy. >> did you see him? >> i did see him almost drop his dance partner. did you see that? >> i did. >> lucky for him, she had health insurance. >> are you jealous he lasted longer than you? >> it's hard to believe such a right winger would have two left feet. he did do better than me. i can't make fun of anyone's dancing. i got the lowest score in the show's history. >> he was more ridiculous. >> heather mill's leg flew off, she got a higher score than me. >> the book is "i only roast the ones i love." when we come back, another ball-buster, michael moore.

i wasn't sure i was reading that right. knew n n .

everyone's got an opinion about my next guest. that's the good news. he's the world's most successful documentary filmmaker. his new movie "capitalism, a love story" opens friday. i'm pleased to be joined by oscar-winner michael moore. hi, michael. >> hi, joy, how are you? >> i'm fine. you're a very polarizing figure. here's a sampling of some of your critics. >> [ bleep ] slime ball and outrageous in his lies about my family. >> mental institution, michael. might be something you ought to think about. >> he's outside the mainstream.

the organizations and groups that support him are very angry. >> michael, do you consider it a badge of honor to be called an a-hole by bush sr.? >> i think that's the only time the american people heard him swear. >> i think so. you really got to him. that's the beauty of it. >> well, i'm sorry he feels that badly about me. >> oh, so what? >> yeah what can i do? >> you can't do anything. just keep making your films. that aggravates the republicans to no end, i guess, right? >> yes, i think so. >> it does. before we get to your new movie, i really thought it was great, i want to ask you about your previous movie, "sicko," for a minute, okay? the senate finance committee rejected the public option. if we don't have the public option in health care reform, what have we really got? >> nothing. >> we got nothing. >> that's right, that's right. it's game over. so if that's really what the democrats want to do in the senate, they really just want to thumb their nose at the two-thirds of americans who are

demanding that public option, i'd like to have them really just explain to us what their definition of democracy is. >> uh-huh. it really is the democrats you're mad at right now, isn't it? >> absolutely. i expect this from the republicans. but not from the people who -- i mean, the nation went to vote last november. and they made it very clear that they wanted universal health care. the people. by a vast majority voted for this. they gave the democrats 60 seats in the senate. and for them to be behaving like republicans, well, i'll tell you. i'm going to be busy next year. whichever one of them are for re-election next year. the same goes for any of the members of the house of congress standing in the way of universal health care. >> so that's what we're going to do? we're just not going to vote for these people again. >> or get other people to run against them in the primary. >> maybe we have to be more active in the whole process. >> absolutely. >> the right wingers out there with their t.e.a. parties and

all this stuff. we don't get as organized. i think it's because you have to be angry against something like we were previous wars, we're out there marching against a war. and so they're against this health care plan. so that's why they get out, do you think? >> well, geez, if that's the only thing that can motivate us, that's kind of lame. >> i know. >> we always have to be against something? i mean, listen, president obama, um, i support him. but his position on health care -- he started with the compromise. instead of starting with everything we wanted, single payer, you know, everybody's covered, private insurance companies, good-bye. and then if you have to compromise, then you make the compromises you have to make. but you don't start with the compromise. >> do you think he's been too wishy-washy on this topic and he's not the decider like bush was and just plowed his way through?

>> yes, exactly. it's not that he has -- i don't think he's been wishy-washy. i think he really in his heart wanted to do this together with the republicans. i think he really wanted to say, hey, we can do this together, let's be bipartisan about this. >> yeah that worked really well. >> they had no intention of that. they could care less about his olive branch. >> really. >> they got their chain saw out and chopped it right off. so hopefully he got the message, they don't want to play. okay, you don't want to play? we've got 60 votes in the senate. here's what we're going to do. but if there's no -- if there's no requirement of democrats to behave like democrat, then -- then where are we? >> yeah. do you think obama has too much on his plate? he's been criticized that he has too much to do. he's flying to denmark in the middle of this whole mess. he's been criticized. what do you think about that? >> no. i think he's the president of the united states. he does have a lot on the plate. has more to do today than i have to do. so that's just the way it is. that he's going to denmark to

try to get the olympics in chicago? okay. >> why is he doing that? tell me what the motivation is there. >> i think he cares about chicago. >> cares about chicago? >> yes. >> well, it will bring jobs to chicago, right? and it will start right now i think? they'll start -- >> the midwest needs some help right now. so great. go for it. >> they sure do need a lot of help. let's go to your new movie "capitalism, a love story." i loved the movie. i'm a little confused, i have to say. i really sat through the whole thing. i want to see it again. but you're not giving out screeners. i think you should. anyway, you say, michael, that capitalism is evil. okay. but aren't we both capitalists, you and i? >> no. >> we're not? i mean, i own property. and -- >> well, no, there's nothing wrong with owning property. >> i'm a small business in and of myself. >> good. >> why isn't that capitalism? >> no. well, in countries that are -- have more socialist economy, people own property.

they have businesses. there's shoe stores. if you work hard or work harder, you earn more. there's nothing wrong with any of that. >> uh-huh. >> i'm talking -- when i say capitalism, i'm talking about what it has become, what it is now. not the version that used to be on "andy of mayberry." but what it is now, which is a legalized system of greed. it's a protection system for the wealthy. they've got their ponzi scheme. and it's essentially a pyramid that's set up so only the wealthiest 1% are at the top of that pyramid and the other -- they own -- they actually have as much financial wealth right now in this country as the 95% under them. 1% equals 95%? i don't think so. so -- >> maybe it's really corporatism you're talking about. maybe what it needs is more regulation rather than saying capitalism is evil, it's the fact that it doesn't have enough

regulation. it's the systemic evils within the system. >> right, except people have been saying for the last year since the crash, "we need more regulation." how many regulations have passed within last year? none. why? because capitalism isn't going to allow those regulations to be passed because the bank lobby has made sure in the last year that they don't have to follow the rules. even after they brought the system down, they think they can just continue on. and they've now found new ways to do derivatives and all these other crazy financial schemes. it's a beast that cannot be tied down. and to try and reform it at this point, i think it's too late. >> you do? that's rather depressing. >> it's not depressing. the way i look at it is that capitalism is a 16th century economic philosophy. socialism is a 19th century economic philosophy. let's quit talking about the past. these are old philosophies. we're in the 21st century. can't we come up with something new? a different economic order? >> we'll have to think of something else.

>> you and i aren't going to do that. we're not economists. >> no. >> but doesn't your common sense tell you we can do better? >> there's a lot of talk about capitalism versus socialism, okay? and here's a sample of the rhetoric we're seeing on the right. take a look at this. >> this is why everybody in this room is so ticked off. i don't want this country turning into russia, turning into a socialized country. >> do these people even know what socialism means? i mean, i hear this word bandied around. and they're calling -- they'll call obama a nazi and a socialist. they go on every -- they don't even know what these words mean. what do you say to these people? >> i don't know what to say. i mean this is a real problem. it starts with our educational system. continues on with a lot of our media. we have a semiliterate country now. there's 40 million functional illiterate adults in this

country now. they can't read or write above a fourth grade level. >> and that's just on my show. >> no, seriously, it's a real problem. national geographic did a poll a while back. they asked young adults 18 to 25 to find iraq or israel on the map and it's like upwards to 80% of them couldn't find. 60% couldn't find england on the globe. and 11% couldn't find the united states on the globe. >> well, maybe these kids should be going to school longer. something's being proposed right now that kids should go to school until 6:00 at night and maybe just work the school year until the middle of july and -- >> i don't know. >> nobody wants to do that. >> no, i don't want to do that either. i just read this story about how in finland they have decided homework is a bad idea. so they discourage homework now. they try to limit the amount of homework that kids take home because they think kids need to play. they need to get out and

socialize with other people. and part of the problem they see in societies with people not getting along and not being able to function with each other is that we've taken away that time after school where you learn to get along with everybody. instead, you're inside -- i don't know if you -- you know, kids are -- when my daughter was in high school, these kids are up until almost midnight doing homework. it's absolutely crazy. and so finland is essentially reduced it quite a bit. and their test scores have gone up. now they're in a lot of ways they're at or near the top of a lot of testing that goes on in this world. >> i wonder how much ice skating they learn there too. >> yeah. well, you know. >> michael, when i was a kid, i liked school because i was scared to go out in the neighborhood because a bunch of girls always wanted to beat me up. i would have liked to have stayed in school and take more art classes and more gym classes. i don't feel i'm against that. >> i don't know, did the girls beat you up? >> no, because i was just as tough as they were. >> there you go. >> okay.

thanks, michael, for coming on. we'll be back in 60 seconds. !d!d

all i keep hearing is president obama is trying to do too much. that he has too much on his plate. rush limbaugh has too much on his plate. barack obama is the president. he's supposed to be busy. sorry, but after two terms of a president who had more time to work on his tan than george hamilton, obama looks like a guy with hyper activity disorder. by the way, how you spend your time is also important, may i just add that? obama has spent the last eight months trying to pass health care reform and negotiate a ban on nuclear weapons.

bush spent eight years just trying to pronounce the word "nuclear." president obama hasn't taken on too much. he just has to work too hard to achieve anything because a lot of people in congress fight him at every turn. you know, it's easy to just sit on your behind and criticize. my staff is doing that right now. i see you. i'm watching all of you. rather than accuse obama of being overextended, why can't these blow-hards in congress come up with some alternatives or solutions? all you hear is this endless stream of no, i don't wanna. you're gonna do what? they sound like me on my wedding night. may i offer up this solution? when these lazy s.o.b.s come up for the midterm election, just tell them you would have voted for them, but you were just too busy. that's just me.

my next guest hosts the award winning tlc show "shalom in the home."

an is the best selling author of over 20 books. please welcome rabbi shmuley boteach. >> congratulations on your show. even though you took my show, i still wish you a heartfelt congratulations. >> that was a bitter, bitter compliment. >> no, no, it was said with love. the truth hurts. this is going to be fantastic. i wish you great success. >> let's talk about michael jackson. the ap is reporting told that jackson's autopsy shows he was fairly healthy. >> i can't say i'm not surprised. i'm very surprised. michael was not eating well. of course when someone dies of a drug abuse and it seems from earlier reports his body had become almost a walking pharmacy. this book actually details why michael felt so lonely and so broken. unfortunately, for too many people in our culture, drugs are a way of compensating. >> i was reading in the book that he would go for weeks without eating until he fell

into unconsciousness. then he would get on an i.v. drip. that's not a sign of mental health, i'm sorry. >> well, i don't know what they mean -- are they saying his constitution was healthy? i think one of the things that makes this book so searingly honest is how michael wanted to tell the public, wanted to share with the public, how fame and fortune are not what we think them to be. they don't compensate for loss of affection in your childhood. doesn't compensate for loss of unconditional love. i think some of michael's fans wanted him to be portrayed as much more perfect. michael never thought he was jesus christ. he did not want to be martyred. he wanted to win a long happy life. >> i know, he may not have wanted to be jesus christ, but he was a little bit grandiose in some of these statements. god gave me a mission to do something for children. he's talking to god now? he believed if he had an hour with hitler, he could change him. >> a lot of people are trying to say michael was anti-semitic.

he was a lover of the jewish people. we were dear friends. >> where'd they pick that up? >> because of some controversies related to lyrics. michael clarifies that in the book as well. michael is trying to say he believes everybody had good in them. i was trying to respond there are those who have erased the image of god from their countenance. they have really crossed that line. hitler was one of them. >> exactly. do you believe in evil, rabbi? >> of course i do. there's good and evil. the jewish version is very different to the christian version. the christian version, the devil overtakes some people's lives. in the jewish view, we're all born innocent. no one's born good, no one's born bad. our action also determine what we become. i think the predictability of hitler's evil nature and osama bin laden. anyone who is guilty of those genocides means that there's no good left in them. and their souls have just been

obliterated within them. i think when you get up in front of 200,000 people in a stadium and they're chanting your name. and then later some of your friends come and say, well, that's nice, but there are major changes you need to make in your life. it's a very difficult message to hear. there is a messiah complex. i think it's one of the reasons why our superstars die so often. >> a lot of times. >> they all had people who must have said to them, you need to make changes. but they didn't want to hear it. >> some of the names you threw out there had very difficult childhoods, as did michael jackson. he gave a frightening account of his father's beatings. he said, he would make you strip nude first. he would oil you down so when the tip of the ironing cold hit you, you know, it would just be like dying. and you had whips all over your face, your back, everywhere. but then, you know, michael's sister, latoya, painted a very different picture on "the view," my other show. take a look. >> sometimes you get a little spanking if you do something wrong.

today, we take it totally out of context as a beating or whatever. >> why was michael so afraid? >> you know, i think it's more or less the facial expressions my father gives out, things of that nature. where you go, oh, no, here comes joseph. joseph or something of that nature. it really wasn't -- barbara, as you grow older, you look at life -- as children, we look at things quite differently. as a matter of fact, michael had a wonderful relationship with my father. >> a wonderful relationship with her father. according to this, he was made to strip nude and hit him with a cord. >> michael was very open about what he considered excessive physicality when he was a child. i'm not here to judge those statements. what's important is from michael's statements they were true. his father made him into a performer. i don't want to judge joe jackson. he made it clear he wished to be

reconciled with his father. it's my humble opinion after sitting with michael for all these conversations, what killed him for man anything else, he was never reconciled with his father. >> sometimes when you get beaten as a child, all you want is a father's love.

>> he was a lonely kid, wasn't he, rabbi? >> isn't that amazing. joy, you're a pretty famous person and a lot of people think that fame and celebrity brings happiness and here you have the most famous person on earth saying he was walking the streets begging people to speak to him. i think he wanted to be known as a person. that's the whole idea of these conversations, michael wanted that very natural quality to be

captured. and people would judge him a little bit more charity. >> a lot of people blame celebrity on unhappiness and they blame success and the media, and everything. i believe that it comes from your childhood. i believe if you are treated well when you're a kid, you can do anything in this world. the media will not bother you, the attention, the success. his father, my way of thinking, was not very nice. according to -- i want to show you -- and the father denies the whole thing. now michael alleged that he got beaten up by his father. la toya glossed over it in that interview i showed and this is what joe jackson said. on the larry king show. >> larry: what do you say about all these things that have been said over the years that you harmed michael as a child. >> that's bunch of bull s. that's a bunch of bull s. >> larry: straighten me out. >> that's not true. >> larry: you never physically harmed him? >> never. >> who are we supposed to believe, the boy who had a lot of difficulties in his life or a

man denying it, why should he admit it now? michael is not even here to deny it, to defend his position, i mean. >> the tragedy of one family's reputation is that one person is rehabilitated at the expense of someone else's. the fact that he was slightly odd come that's expense offer his father's reputation. i don't want that to happen. i want to see a reconciliation between them. he's crying. his voice is crack iing as he's relating these stories. no matter what, you still have an obligation to heal. >> you have an obligation to heal? how do you do that? you need therapy, a lot of help. >> with michael, a part of the healing came from being a religious and spiritual person. one of the most interesting parts of the book, joy, michael is not just a devout jehovah's witness, he was a missionary. he was the most famous entertainer in the world and he

would say, i can talk to you about god. he would debate you. once he lost that spiritual foundation, he became a life that was largely unanchored. and unanchored. >> he never had any kind of pilings from his childhood to help him. >> one more question before you go. i know you know quite a bit about him at this point. did he actually have sex with women, do you think? >> i never asked him that? our relationship always had a certain dignity to it. but i will say he comes across as someone who is slightly suspicious of women. always attracted to women, but he's suspicious, i think, because he said at the age of 5 he was going to strip clubs where he was asked to perform as part of the jackson 5. so he was witnessing these images that were way too adult and way to vulgar and i think he began to conclude that women tried to use their sexual power to gain control over men. so he was attracted to women but it made him suspicious of women. it's an important lesson to us as parents to see when they're young and tender. >> and don't be hitting them either. >> okay. and thanks to the rabbi and the rest of my guests for joining me tonight. i'll be back here tomorrow

night. time for a little vino. want to go for a little drink? see you tomorrow.

tonight, a 5-year-old florida girl tucked into bed. she's gorgeous vanished and the door propped open. daddy comes home to find not a trace of little haleigh. police say the last person to find haleigh arrive refuses to give straight answers, unable to account for crucial hours surrounding the alleged kidnap. in a stunning twist, the brother of girlfriend turned stepmom, misty croslin says she goes to haleigh's house the night she goes missing, pounds on the door repeatedly, nobody home.

croslin's own mother and father also publicly state they doubt her story. as girlfriend turned stepmother, she flunked another polygraph. where is little haleigh?

>> how are you doing right now? >> i just want her to come home. i want to find her. >> i know that you're 17, i can't even imagine at my age going through this. >> it's horrible. >> it's very hurtful. very. >> i know -- i know at first it seems like a lot of people that have been kind of like, i don't understand how this could be the situation where you don't hear her. did you hear anything?

>> i didn't hear anything at all, nothing. if i heard something, i would have got up and i wouldn't have let them take her. >> so what happened? >> okay. i put her to bed about, you know 8:00. that's her bedtime. she had school. i put her to bed. and her blanket and my blanket. my blanket was on the vanity hook. so we had a blanket hanging on the window and i had to wash that and her blanket, her blanket -- she had peed on her blanket the night before i guess. i was going to put it on her. it smelled like pee. i washed the blanket and i gave her a little sheet to cover up with and she fell asleep. i put a blanket on her. then i laid down. and about -- i'm not positive what time, it was like 3:00, you know, i seen 3:00. 3:00 in the morning i got up. i got up because i had to use the bathroom but i didn't make it to the bathroom. i seen the kitchen light on and i walked in the kitchen and the back door's wide open and i didn't notice about haleigh not being there until i had seen the back door and i went over and

she's gone and that's all i know. is when i woke up -- when i went to sleep she was there. and then when i woke up, she was gone. >> i know you've been intensively questioned by police. what has that been like for you? >> it's been hard. but i'm trying to do everything to find her. you know i'm answering any questions i have to cause i know i didn't do anything to that little girl. i would never hurt her. i mean they love me. i mean, they look at me like their mom, you know? you ask little jimmy he'll tell you. they talk lovely about me and i'm so good to them kids, real good. >> so you woke up and that was it. you saw the door open. did you leave the light on or -- >> no. >> somebody turned the light on? >> the lights had to get turned on because i know them lights -- i was in the hallway where the back door is. the dryers are right there. i was washing clothes and that back door was shut, you know? and i just, like, opened.

it's open. >> did you take the polygraph? >> i did. but i'm not supposed to talk about that. >> uh-huh. >> they told me not to talk about that. >> but you did go? >> yes, i did take a polygraph. >> and you passed it? >> i mean, my understanding is that i passed it, you know? >> what do you want people to know? >> i just want everybody to know that i didn't do anything with that little girl. i loved her like she's my own. and i'll do anything to get her back. and if people think that i have something do with it, if i had something do with it, if i knew where she was, we wouldn't be sitting here today. we'd have her. and i don't -- i don't know where she is. >> she's a sweet baby, i can tell. >> she is so sweet. she's a smart little girl. she's intelligent, you know? she's a real good girl. a real good girl. >> what is your heart? you said you think of her like your daughter. >> like my daughter. >> what does your heart tell you right now?

>> just tells me i need to find her, you know? i mean, find her. >> you believe she's still out there? >> yeah, i do believe she's still out there. somebody has her. i mean i don't want to think of the bad, you know? that runs through my mind, but i don't want to think of the bad. >> what about this worker that was at the house? >> the a.c.? my brother was -- the a.c. guy had come and my brother had come ten minutes after the a.c. guy. me and my brothers and the kids and my nephews were out there. the kids were all playing in the yard. haleigh was on her bike, doing wheelies. having fun with my nephews and the a.c. guy, he was in the house by himself. we didn't go in the house. i didn't go in the house with him. i sat on the front porch for a little while. >> you don't suspect him? >> i mean, i don't know. i mean, they talked to him, and you know, they -- they said that they -- >> why would someone want to do this? i mean do you think any reason

they would want to do this to you or to your boyfriend? >> i don't know. i mean, we're good people. we don't, you know? we don't really have friends, you know? i really don't know a lot of people in palatka. i know a couple of girls you know? they're not my friends. they're just there. i hang out with them when i need to get away. i know i shouldn't hang out with them, but sometimes i just need a break. >> yeah. >> and i go hang out with them but not no more. >> you said a brick. a brick that had propped up? >> there was a brick, like a cinder block, that was holding the screen door open. and that brick -- that back door was always closed. i had never seen that brick around there. the cops said there was a whole bunch of bricks about 50 feet away. but i'd never seen any bricks at all. >> so somebody propped open the screen door with a brick? >> yeah. >> okay. so bring her home. >> yeah. i just want her to come home. that's it.

and i just want her to be okay and whoever has her i just want them to bring her home. just safe. >> calm down. >> i just want her to come home safe. i thank everybody out there that's helping us, you know? we really, really appreciate it. that everybody's helping us, you know? just if anybody knows anything, please call us and let us know. let the detectives know. we just want her home, that's it. >> are you a really sound sleeper? >> usually haleigh will wake up, at night time. she gets cramps in her legs, you know? and i have to rub her legs to get the cramps out of her legs to get her back to sleep. and you know, she didn't make a sound that night. i would had woke up if i had heard a noise. i didn't hear anything at all. i was really exhausted that day, you know?

really exhausted. when i laid down, i guess, i, i was out. >> did she -- there's no way she could have wandered off? >> no, she is scared of the dark. she would not go anywhere by herself. she would not -- not by herself. >> do you think that something happened and you just didn't hear it? >> yeah, i didn't hear, and i wish i did because i wouldn't had let no one take her. >> are you blaming herself? >> i just know, like, i feel like that, you know, i wish that they would have took me instead of her because i could had fought. you know she's only 5. she can't really do anything and i just wish they would had taken me instead of her. what do they want with a little 5-year-old? >> uh-huh. anything else that you want to say, misty? >> i want her home. if anybody knows where she is, please bring her home. safe. that's it. i just want her home. next, exclusive with haleigh's father, ronald

cummings.

as the desperate search for a 5-year-old florida girl, haleigh cummings goes on, investigators bring haleigh's father, ronald cummings, in for intense questioning about phone calls. calls made in the hours leading up to haleigh's disappearance. cummings trying desperately to reach new stepmother misty croslin that night, at least 20 calls. no answer. croslin's brother thrown behind bars on a gun charge. confessing to police, he goes to haleigh's house the very night she goes missing. pounds on the door, over and over, nobody home.

where was new stepmother misty croslin during those crucial hours? >> it's been more than seven months since anyone has seen little haleigh cummings' bright smile or heard her laugh. and now we're getting new information from investigators about the night the 5-year-old was last seen. police now say haleigh's dad, ronald cummings, called misty croslin repeatedly while he was at work and no one answered. then, according to deputies, cummings called down to her family's home just down the street looking for her and talked with her brother. >> hank says that he answered that call from ronald, which we know was made. he says, he answered it. and it was ronald saying "go check on misty." and he says that he complied with that request. and misty did not answer the door. the house was dark and quiet. >> our cameras were rolling after hank croslin jr, misty's brother, was taken from his jail

cell to be questioned by police. that's when deputies say croslin's brother told them, it looked like no one was home that night. >> he demonstrated to us loudly and for a few seconds, and then he waited around, you know, to presumably see if someone was going to be roused that they were sleeping or whatever. he made -- he tells us, that he made a good effort to see if someone was home. >> major gary bowling says croslin's interview had nothing to do with the search of this pond. but he says the interview does cast more doubt on misty's story. that she was home watching movies with the two kids. >> what we need is for misty to come down here and tell us the truth. >> he says that's why they've released this new information. >> we know that it applies to pressure in the area. where pressure needs to be applied and that's on misty. misty can relieve this pressure. we need to go down to the sheriff's office and really lay out in clear terms what i was

doing from 8:00 p.m. until 3:00 a.m. >> to ronald cummings, joining us tonight. he is haleigh's father. he's joining us exclusively since this arrest. ronald, what do you make of it? >> ms. nancy, i don't know what to make of it. i just don't know what -- i don't know what to think. >> well, what is the brother-in-law telling you? what are you hearing from misty's family? >> ms. nancy, we don't have much contact with the family. misty has an injunction. so we don't have any contact with them. >> to terry shoemaker the attorney for ronald cummings. do you believe he was taken into custody in order to put pressure on him to find out what he may or may not know about haleigh's disappearance? >> well, you know like was just said, i know $50,000 is very high bond for a grand theft, you know? so i would imagine they're looking at every angle they can. and if they think that they can put a little weight on him and get him to talk about anything he might know i'm sure they're

going do that. >> now, let me ask you this. back to you, ronald cummings. you say that no more communication's with misty croslin's family. what is misty croslin telling you? is there any possibility that she left the home that evening and hasn't told you? >> if there is a possibility of it, i don't know anything about it. >> when we come back, inside the home where 5-year-old haleigh cummings vanishes into thin air.

an exclusive tour inside the home where 5-year-old florida girl, haleigh cummings, was reportedly snatched from her own bed. >> marlaina, show me the girl's room. that's the first thing i want to see. >> okay, nancy, well we're standing right here, right beside me on my left is the bed where misty croslin was sleeping. and here on the right we had the bed where little haleigh was sleeping. and you can see, it is all about about 3 1/2 feet from each other. and this is right where misty

said she got up and she had to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. now, where i'm facing right now, nancy, is a bathroom. it's the master bathroom. through the living room behind me is the other bathroom in the house. and you have to remember, she said that when she got up to go to the bathroom she saw that the kitchen light was on. the kitchen is over this way. so that means she would have had gotten up and gone out this door and then have noticed. >> okay, stop. marlaina, are you telling me that she did not go to the bathroom, the baby-sitter did not go to the rest room, the master bathroom? she chose instead to go out the door across the kitchen to another bathroom? >> that is the assumption we're making. we asked teresa, haleigh's grandmother standing with us, she's not sure what bathroom she used but if she saw the kitchen light on she would have had to use the other bathroom in the home, nancy. >> was the door open or shut, ms. neves?

because if the door was closed, that rules out her seeing the kitchen light. so was that bedroom door open when she realized the kitchen light was on? >> the bedroom door's always open. >> marlaina, how big is that bedroom? >> the bedroom is, i would say, about -- i would have to say 11x13. >> okay, let's go through the rest of the house. 11x13, thanks. go ahead. tell me what else you observed. >> okay, so -- well, basically, nancy, they kept saying that the door, the back door, which we're about to go to, is about 16 feet from the bedroom. it's a little bit more than that, actually. if i had to guess, it would probably be about 25. but i'm going to show you the back door. and show you how both doors closed automatically. so -- and i'm also going to show you the lock because the lock is about three feet from the floor. and we know that that's about as tall as haleigh stands. so here's the back door and here's the lock. it sticks.

so -- there you go. now we open the back door. and here's the back screen door. the one that was propped open with the cinder block, okay? now if you see, when it closed, it slams. it makes a loud noise. but if you leave this door, this slowly closes as well. so it leaves a lot of questions as to what exactly -- how exactly did this person do this? next, was new stepmother, misty croslin, even home the night little haleigh goes missing?

thrown behind bars on a gun charge. we learn the brother of new stepmother, misty croslin, confesses during a late-night jailhouse interrogation. he goes to haleigh's house the night she goes missing. pounds on the door, desperately. nobody home. this, a full seven months after haleigh goes missing. then a letter surfaces. outlining details of a drug-fueled party where little haleigh, allegedly, accidentally ingests the heavy-duty painkiller, oxycontin and dies. cops call the letter a farce publicly, but still investigate

and interrogate. this, after girlfriend-turned-stepmother, misty croslin, reportedly flunks yet another polygraph. ronald, what do you make of misty flunking a polygraph? >> i don't know anything about her flunking a polygraph. i know what's been said about it. i'm not a polygrapher myself so i didn't see any results. i didn't get to, you know? i was told by the polygrapher who did the polygraph that it's not judged in percentages. that the polygraph is either a failed or a pass, not in a percentages. >> well, okay. let's take with what you know. that you either fail it or you passed it. well, according to these reports she flunked it. i mean royally flunked it. and that's got to concern you. >> well, until i see more physical proof of what's going

on, ms. nancy, there's -- my concerns are still on keeping haleigh's face on the tv and being sure that she is found. and whoever has done this to her is put away. >> okay, ronald, i understand that you want to keep haleigh's face out there. we are doing that. but i know you. and i do not believe you are not concerned about a report that your wife flunked a polygraph. it would concern me. >> nancy, if i may, of course ronald's concerned about a lot of things going on right now, but i think the main thing he's concerned about is making sure that haleigh's found. and again, we would like to thank you for keeping haleigh in the spotlight, making sure everyone continues to look for her, and helping us every way that you possibly can. now, we're more concerned with that aspect, rather than whether or not misty may or may not have

done well on a polygraph. >> you know, mr. shoemaker, you have an excellent reputation. and what you just said does not make one ounce of sense. of course you want her picture out there. of course you want the help of the media. but for the last person known to have seen haleigh alive, to have reportedly flunked a polygraph, how you can suggest that is not a major concern, you want to find her, you want to find haleigh, then find out why misty reportedly flunked a polygraph. gentlemen, does that not make sense to you? ronald cummings, i would like to hear it from you. >> nancy, what you're saying makes perfect sense to me, but why is law enforcement -- i'm not law enforcement. i can't interfere with their investigation. i can't do anything about a polygraph or any results. >> well, what is she telling you, ronald? what is she telling you? she took that police polygraph. i don't believe that she passed it the first time. i don't believe she did. now this one.

then there was that voice stress test. something is wrong with her story, ronald. >> i don't know, ms. nancy. >> ronald, i know that your heart's desire is to bring her home alive. i'll never forget the first time i heard your 911 call. and i think that is exactly the way i would have reacted. if i came home and the twins were gone, and i want to know what you want to tell the viewers tonight. >> i want to tell them to keep haleigh's face out there and if you have any information leading to her disappearance, to call it in. it don't matter who it hurts. and i want to let everyone know that i'm not hiding anything for anybody. and if somebody has something to do with it, let them fry, so be it. whoever it might be, that's who it is, let's bring haleigh home.

>> ronald, why did police question misty croslin's brother and sister-in-law? what was that all about? they kept them for hours. >> ms. nancy, i don't have a clue what they questioned them about. i'm not allowed around them. >> that's right, i understand. ronald, what do you believe is being done now in the search for haleigh? i know that they've just finished another search around your home. and they did that because your wife, misty croslin, directed them to a particular spot. >> well i'm happy that they're still searching. i hope that they found my child alive, obviously. but one way or another i want my daughter to come home. >> ronald you said -- >> i need some closure. >> -- you said that you don't care who it hurts and that you're not covering for anybody. >> that's right. >> okay. and i assume, from knowing you, that you mean that. so my question to you tonight is, now that you have been told

whether you accept it or not that your wife has flunked a poly have you asked her what's happened? what does she tell you? i mean i saw her on the "today" show, and they asked her, why did you give two different stories? and she said, i don't know. that doesn't make sense. >> i asked her, but i don't get any answers from her about, you know -- i don't see what -- what she's telling me is not inconsistent. >> okay. and what is it she tells you? what is her story about what happened that night? >> the same thing that she's telling police or whoever that she went to bed -- she put haleigh to bed. done some laundry. went to bed. and woke up to the door propped open. >> ronald, you and i have been on this story from the very, very beginning. and i don't even like asking the medical examiner questions like

that. while i know you are listening, because you're holding out the hope, as i am, that she is alive. >> yeah. >> once again, i want you to make a plea to the viewers tonight, everyone the tip line is 888-277-8477. go ahead, ronald. >> please, whoever who knows anything about haleigh's disappearance, anything about where she might be now or anything about anything from february 9th to february 10th of 2009, please call the crimestoppers of the putnam county sheriff's office. >> and please know, ronald, that you are in our thoughts and prayers, as is little haleigh. ms. neves, at one point i recall that junior, the little brother, has stated that there were other people in the home that evening. what do you recall about his

statement? >> junior's initial statement to the law enforcement was that he saw a man in black, i believe was what they said. >> yes. >> and then it changed, you know? but he didn't change it. other people changed it. >> yes. ms. neves, what do you make of this letter? do you put any stock in it? >> nancy, i'm like you. i do not think that many people with a $70,000 reward are going to sit at home and not say anything. i do not believe for one second that my granddaughter would take something like that because of the taste of it. just simply for that fact. >> we're all throwing around legal theories and this letter, and whether it's true or not. what is your message tonight? >> i believe haleigh is alive. i have faith in god to take care of my baby girl in finding her.

and i don't care who had something to do with it. those are the people who need to be put away and bring my baby girl home. >> ms. neves, why are you so sure haleigh is still with us? >> because i stand on god's promise that if you pray and believe that he will give you what you pray for. >> ms. neves, tell me how ronald is holding up. i mean, he comes on our show frequently. and he's always so strong. how is he holding up? >> he's not as strong at home as he is on tv. but he has to be strong for junior, you know? so he does the best that he can.

he keeps his crying to his self at night and tries to make junior happy until haleigh comes home. >> how is junior? does he even realize at this juncture that haleigh is gone. >> junior thinks that haleigh is lost and she's finding her way home. he actually drew her a map so she could find her way home. but he doesn't realize the longevity, i think, of it. >> you know, i focus so much on where is haleigh, what happened that night? you know junior has been lost in the mix. i cannot imagine, god forbid the thought, that i would ever have to explain to one of the twins where the other one was. why they were not at home. what do you tell him? >> that angels are watching haleigh.

and she'll be home soon. >> ms. neves, when you hear about, for instance, this letter -- >> yes, ma'am. >> -- how does that affect you? whether you believe it or don't believe it, when you hear there might be a break in the case. >> ms. nancy, we would love to have a break in this case. and we really would not care who it implicates as long as it brings haleigh back to us. you know this letter is a little far-fetched, i think, because haleigh doesn't like medicine. and oxycontin, i've had to take it. i think it's a very nasty taste. and i can't imagine haleigh taking it. so -- but you know, anything that would bring haleigh home, that's what we want. >> with me is teresa neves, this is haleigh's paternal grandmother. ms. neves, you stand very strongly behind misty croslin's story. what do you make of police

saying that she has the answers? >> i have to leave the investigative part of this to law enforcement. because, you know, if i go with every whim and every accusation then i'm going to be flipping back in forth in my life. and what we stand -- you know, we just stand for haleigh here. we just want haleigh to come home. and i want them to find whoever this is. and i don't care who it is. but we want haleigh to come home. when we come back, where was new stepmom, misty croslin, during the crucial hours when 5-year-old haleigh disappears? mr. eeeeeeeeeeeeeee

failed polygraphs, repeatedly changing the story. physical evidence inside the home. florida investigators and even family say they don't believe stepmother misty croslin's story, the story surrounding haleigh's sudden disappearance. on haleigh's birthday, misty

croslin kcummings hung posters about her. when asked about what she thought of the new attorney in orlando, she was positive. >> i think they're going to be able to -- [ inaudible ] >> miller said she told him she wanted to clear her name. he said she failed the polygraph miserably. >> miller says croslin cummings wanted to do more, so she took a voice analysis test and failed that too. and he says she was uncooperative with a hypnotist. miller gave the test information to the putnam county sheriff's office. >> it indicated that misty was deception indicated is the official statement, which is no surprise to us. we've said all along that misty has been inconsistent in her statements. and i agree with the point that was made by tim miller's investigator, which is that misty's consistency is inconsistency.

>> misty signed a paper saying she had an attorney who did not want her to take the test but she still wanted to take them. misty's attorney says she told him she was pressured to take the test and that if she did not, miller would not help search for haleigh. miller denies that. investigators say there's nothing at this point to charge misty croslin cummings regarding haleigh's disappearance. >> we think misty needs to fill in some inconsistencies, but that's about as far as we're willing to go with that statement. we're going to stop short of saying therefore we have probable cause to make an arrest. we don't. if we had probably cause to make an arrest at this point, we probably would have. >> the mother of missing florida girl 5-year-old haleigh, also with her the grandmother, haleigh's grand mother, crystal sheffield, marie griffith, thank you for being with us. first to you, crystal, this is haleigh's mother. crystal, what do you make of the

recent developments, the developments especially about misty croslin flunking a polygraph? >> well, i thought all along she had something to do with it. and now this kind of just proves it. >> why do you say you thought all along that? >> she was the last 2001 see our daughter. her stories just don't add up. everything she says is crazy. i mean, it's like the cops say, they're inconsistent. >> have you talked to ronald about the inconsistencies? >> i've said something to him about her recently, and he pretty much was like, what do you want me to do? so -- >> what did you say to him? i mean, his response kind of -- to interpret it depends on what you said to him. what did you say to him? >> i told him how i felt about

her test results, and i told him i really didn't want to be around her anymore, like when i pick our son up. and he was just like, what you want me to do? so maybe we can talk about it. >> you mentioned that misty croslin's first polygraph, the one administered by police, was full of inconsistencies. how did you find that out? >> no, not the polygraph, just her story. i know nothing about the polygraph from the police. they have not revealed that. >> okay, why did you -- where did you learn that what she told police was full of inconsistencies? >> umm, the -- it was on your show actually. i think it was one of the investigators. he said that we've known all along that her stories was full of inconsistencies. >> to you, miss griff fis, thank

you for being with us. you stated that at the very beginning you doubted croslin's story. why? >> because of the inconsistencies with the bed, and who was sleeping in what bed. there was four different stories. >> what were the four stories? >> one minute all three of them were in the same bed. then, haley was on a date of bed and it was just her and butter been. butter been is junior, by the way. then, he was in a totally different room, other than her and hail layi and haleigh. it just kept getting bigger and bigger. >> what if anything, have you been told about her police polli polygraph. >> that they were full of inconsiste inconsistencies. >> such as. >> such as her timeline. they couldn't figure out whether

or not she was at home. one right after another. it's all mind-boggling. >> to crystal sheffield, haleigh's mother. recently, she suggested up to four people were in the home that evening. have you heard that version? >> no. the only thing i've heard was about the ac guy and her brother that stopped by. that has the only people that i know about. she said they left, both of them. >> when we come back, what happened to 5-year-old florida girl, haleigh cummings?

tonight, the desperate search for a 5-year-old florida girl, haleigh. vanishing from her bed without a trace. >> i came home from work to find out that i didn't have a child, that somebody stole my child. it's not like a bicycle or a car. someone stole my child from me. >> i want whoever has her to bring her home. that's all i want is my baby home. >> she gave me a hug and a kiss. loved on me, told me she loved me and she would see me when i got home. >> she's a daddy's girl. >> and she wasn't there when i got home.

>> she's the most precious thing in our life. we want her to come home. >> i love her very much. we will find you. god will bring you home. >> haleigh, if you are out there, mommy loves you and your daddy loves you and we miss you. and we will be right here. please, whoever has her, please, bring her home. please, we need her. me and her daddy both need her. please just bring her back. haleigh, i love you. your daddy loves you. we all love you. please just bring her home. >> let's stop and remember army first lieutenant tyler parton,

24, jonesboro, arkansas. a west point grad fluent in era big, awarded the global war on terrorism service medal and combat action badge. loved his god, country, fellow soldiers and writing, music, traveling. leaves behind grieving parents dave and lona. brother daniel. tyler parton, american hero. thanks to our guests, but especially to you being with you us. see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. until then, good night, friend.

i'm a.j. hammer in new york. this is a "showbiz tonight" news break. some of what we are covering at the top of the hour. jon gosselin's incredible move today to shut down ""jon & kate plus 8"" after he got fired from the show. now he is called erratic, opportunistic. she gosselin smackdown. the rabbi tells all. the one on one with the rabbi who recorded disturbing conversations with michael jackson. i ask him the tough questions like what does he think about the people who said he betrayed michael's trust by releasing the tapes. plus showbiz shocker. is convicted michael vick really getting the sponsorship deal with nike? the news about sarah palin's new book and wait until you hear the sex secret heidi montag revealed. that's tv's most provocative

news show at the top of the hour, right here on hln.