>> right now on "showbiz tonight," the david letterman sex extortion shocker. late breaking developments after letterman's incredible on air confession. >> i have had sex with women who work for me on this show. >> tonight, what's the really story behind the alleged extortion attempt. could letterman get fired over this? a brand-new star war over roman polanski. kirstie alley's remarkable rant against roman. chris rock comparing roman to o.j. simpson. "showbiz tonight" with the roman star outrage.

plus, today's brand-new jon and kate bombshell. the unbelievable fallout today after jon gosselin goes on "larry king live" and opens up about everything. >> i had an epiphany and looked in the mirror and said i don't want to be this person anymore. >> tv's first news show starts right now. i'm a.j. hammer broadcasting tonight and every night from new york city. sex extortion shocker. we learned new details about david letterman's confessions about the twisted alleged black mail plot against him. extraordinary developments made for big news breaking. a producer for the cbs show 48 hours mystery was indict and arraigned on grand larceny

charges accused of demanding $2 million from letterman to keep quiet about the fact that he had sex with women who worked for him and he is pleading not guilty. in an extra twist to the story, david letterman not only fesses up, but jokes about this terrifying plot. >> would it be embarrass figure it were made public? perhaps it would. especially for the women. >> late breaking today, new york city's district attorney reveals all the shocking new details of the incredible story. "showbiz tonight" wants to know, did david letterman handle this the right way and could he be fired over it? vinny politan is a host on sirius xm radio and this extortion case is outrageous. david letterman said he black mill o mailed him, asking him

for $2 million to keep quiet about his affairs. it's just riveting. he revealed that early in september, early in the morning, he found a package in the back seat of his car. look at this. >> so i go through it and i study it and what this is is a guy who is going to write a screen play about me. that's good news for anyone, isn't it? i'm like you. i think really? that's a little -- this is the word i used. that's a little hinky. so i just want to reiterate how terrifying this moment is. >> dave didn't hold back on his show. let me start with you. i don't think that david letterman could have handled this sticky situation any better than he did. are you with me on that? >> 100%. the first thing he did is sees

what's going on and he contacts authorities and they get involved immediately. with people with that much money might think of doing it a different way. what he did on the show was incredible the way he handled it. the only people who were confusion and uncomfortable were the people in the audience trying to figure out what this was about. >> they thought it was a build up to a joke. as if he got up on stage and said i don't want to you laugh, i'm about to tell you a serious story. lettman sa he contacted the new york da about this letter and he worked to record evidence and bust the guy. he even gave the alleged black mailer a fake check for $2 million. the same day the guy cashed it, he was arrest and hours later is when dave confessed all of it. watch how he reveal what he calls the creepy stuff that the black mailer threatened to expose. >> the creepy stuff was that i

have had sex with women who work for me on this show. now, my response to that is, yes, i have. i have had sex with women from this show. would it be embarrassing if it were made public? perhaps it would. especially for the women. >> all day long, people have been wondering about the timeline of all this. the spokesperson said these relationships all took place before letterman was married. i have to ask you, this is serious stuff, but when he dropped this bomb, people were laughing and applauding, sometimes at inappropriate places. will he go down in history of the best example of a guy dealing with a potentially explosive sex scandal in the best possible way? >> absolutely. the way people do these things is they have a press conference and the wife is behind them with

a look on their face. this is something only someone like david letterman can do because he's a skilled comedian. there was no better way for him to do this. i have to tell you, david letterman is now the poster boy for viagra. >> very good. i don't know if he will be signing the contract. we will have to wait and see. late this afternoon, letterman's alleged black mailer is charged with grand larceny and arraigned with new york city's district attorney who held a press conference by threatening to write a screen play about his esq. paids. >> a one-page letter referred to mr. letterman's great success and beautiful, loving son. the document related then to mr. letterman's world about to collapse about him.

as information about his private life is disclosed leading to a ruined reputation and severe damage to his professional and family lives. >> you can understand why this guy thought he could do damage to dave. this guy faces five to 15 years for this alleged crime. vinny, let me ask you, you work in the legal world. does it blow your mind? i can't get over that this guy thought he could get away with it. >> the guy worked for 48 hours mystery. has he seen what happens? the bad guys get arrested. i don't understand what he was thinking they could get away with. write the play and try to sell it. shop it around. you could probably get money for it. >> now he thinks he can get off on the changes. late breaking, the guy halterman is completing not guilty to the charges. the da said we got the goy on tape. as an attorney, knowing what we

know, is it conceivable he could walk? >> he tried to cash the check. he was given a fake check and tried to cash it. what is he going to say? he thought he was being given money to have a good time or go on a vacation? it makes no sense, but as a defense attorney you want to enter that not guilty plea and put the burden on the prosecution. >> if this goes to trial, who do you think they'll like more, david letterman or this producer from 48 hours trying to get $2 million. >> i agree. >> even though justice should be blind to celebrity, we know the reality. vinny, let me ask you this. there is a lot of debate going on about sex in the workplace. letterman copped to it and got out in front of the story and shut down having to ever talk about it again, but if the women who i was involved with want to

talk about it, that is their prerogative. is this something he could get fired over? >> he better hope they don't want to talk to a lawyer about all of this. when you are the ho boss and you have people working for you and you are sleeping with them, that is ripe for harassment and uncomfortable work environment. you have the sensitivity training and this stuff should not take place. i don't know what his relationship is with these women at this point, but there is the danger. can cbs fire him? maybe. we had a president who did something similar and he didn't get fired. he got in trouble for lying. david letterman has not lied about it. >> thank you for being here and i appreciate your insight. >> it's our show bis question of the day. was his confession the right way to go? you can vote at cnn.com/showbiztonight and e-mail us your thoughts at

cnn.com. the other big story everybody is talking about today, jon gosselin's brand-new interview bombshell and why he really pulled the plug on his own show. >> i want kate and i to be friends and figure out our marriage and i don't want to be fooled anymore. >> i can tell you kate gosselin watched this interview. i would love to be a fly on that wall. jon wants to be friends with her? really? the secrets of jon's finances and what he made on the show will be reveal and how much he spent on counseling. also making news now, a brand-new star war over roman polanski. kirstie alley's rant against roman. you have to hear this. chris rock comparing roman to o.j. simpson? it's that time again, tv's most provocative news show is naming the most provocative celebrity of the week. jon gosselin, roman polanski, david letterman. wow! who will it be?

this is show biz tonight on hln. time now for the "showbiz news ticker" making new right now.

>> how can you defend roman polanski? because he made good movies. are you kidding me? >> chris rock and the biggest star are outraged about the support roman polanski is getting from the biggest names in the business. welcome back to "showbiz tonight." i'm a.j. hammer. stars slam roman. chris rock is not the only one lashing out at roman polanski.

he fled the u.s. after pleading guilt to having sex with a 13-year-old girl. kirstie alley is blasting celebrity polanski supporters, calling the legendary director a coward. joining me tonight, vinny politan who is a host for sirius radio and in new york, an attorney from mid-win charles and associates. after polanski was arrested in switzerland, big names like martin scorcese and woody allen speak out in support of the famous director. kirstie alley not having any of it. let me read what she put on her page. just for the record, rape is rape. this is one hollywood star who does not celebrate or defend roman polanski. his art did not rape her. there is no such thing as consensual sex with a 13-year-old girl. it is rape and he is a coward. he made two bad choices.

rape and flee. i have to tell you, i find it hard to argue with her logic, but some who think there is an argument there. >> some people are out of touch. they get the facts about this case from what? a movie? that's like trying to solve the jfk mystery by talking to oliver stone. you have to read the grand jury testimony of his victim. then talk to me and kirstie alley read it because she makes sense. >> i love her words. they were passionate and she really sums up so clearly how so many of us are feeling. >> she does and she has done an excellent job of doing that and coming forward and saying this. besides, do we want to listen to what woody allen has to say about sex withual girls? >> i was surprised. >> not the one, woody. not the one. sorry. >> not just kirstie, but chris rock. he made a great point on the jay leno show. rock just can't get over the

fact that some stars seem to excuse polanski for raping a 13-year-old girl. take a look. >> people are defending roman polanski because he made good movies. >> i don't get it. >> are you kidding me? >> here's my thing. >> you made good movies 30 years ago. johnnie cochran didn't have the nerve to say did you see o.j. against new england? >> they have certain justification, but whatever reasons they have for supporting him, are you with me that even if it's not their intention, they condone what he did. >> absolutely. they deal with what happened 32 years ago to a 13-year-old girl and said the so-called crime, it's not rape, rape. it was so long ago. read the transcript. see what this 13-year-old girl went through and then talk to me. >> a lot about rape on our

facebook wall. by defending polanski, it shows what you were saying. hollywood stars think they deserve special treatment. ashley wrote he might be famous, but no one is above the law. if someone who is a nobody raped someone and fled the country, they would be hunted down and thrown in jail for the rest of their lives. he needs to be in jail. breanna writes so sad that hollywood is defending him. it tells the world that if you are famous, you can get away with anything. when people see stars defending him like that, it's easy to understand why people think hollywood is out of touch. >> it is. i hope the justice system does not bow down to this. it sends a horrific message to someone who pleads guilty. he stood up in court and said i did it. >> thanks, guys. i appreciate it. i have to tell you we are getting calls fired up calling

in not just about roman polanski, but jon being fire and trying to pull the plug on jon and kate plus eight. here's a call from joyce who thinks jon did the right thing. >> caller: for whatever reason whether it's right or wrong, jon decide his kids do not need to be on the show at this time. i agree. i think it's a good thing someone decided they don't need to be on the show. >> thank you, joyce. teresa from california is glad he got canned. >> caller: jon deserves to be fired. he was busy partying and doing his own thing. i think he needs to grow up and act his age and stop acting like a baby. >> let us know what you think about this or anything at all. our phone lines are always open. please leave us a voice mail. we would love to play your call.

we are posting them to our home page. tonight the explosive fallout over john's brand-new interview. he revealed he was so disgusted with himself. >> i had an epiphany and i looked in the mirror and said i don't want to be this person anymore. i made mistakes and i know i messed up. >> is he finally coming clean for real? the secrets of what jon got paid on jon and kate plus 8 and the money he spent on counseling. making news right now, is kanye west paying the price for dissing taylor swift at the music awards? you know what they say. what goes around comes around. don't go anywhere because it's that time of the week. tonight, "showbiz tonight" naming the most provocative celebrity of the week, jon gosselin, roman polanski and david letterman. this will be a close vote.

now the "showbiz news ticker." more stories from the newsroom making news right now.

that is mariah carrey making it rap in a great live appearance. going old school with make it happen. off her 1991 album emotion. it is terrific. even a cover of the 19 foreigner classic i want to know what love is. mariah talked about her husband. she opened up about her relationship with nick. this is something she hasn't

done before. they got married in april of 2008. this is her vision of love. >> i learned that one needs to be selective and then you can find the right person. >> i think nick cannon. >> of course. i don't know where he went. >> whirl wind romance and how has he changed you? >> he's a calming person. but he's really funny. he has both sides of the spectrum going and it's really nice. >> i have known her for 20 years and so happy to see you so happy, mariah. >> i will let you finish, kanye, but your tour is canceled. it has been called off. he was going to hit the road with lady gaga, but ticket sales were bad. the people were fighting. kanye and taylor swift can go on tour together. i'm just saying.

that would be something. tons of you are fired up today about david letterman's shocking admission that he had sex with female coworkers. >> i'm neither shocked or disturbed. what consenting adults do behind closed doors is their business. bravo for dealing with it. >> so now all celebs need to do is make a joke of it and it's all forgiven. why do we put these people on such pedestals. they are human beings like the rest of us and not always with high morals. you can sign up on the facebook page and get our twitter alerts. here's what's coming up on "showbiz tonight." the fallout over jon gosselin's new bombshells. does he really want to be friends with? the secrets of what jon really got paid. is jon gosselin the most provocative of the week?

tough competition. roman polanski and david letterman. we pick the most provocative celebrity of the week. >> one thing to have a fish fry, but frying a goldfish to get back at your common-law husband? >> that is sick. >> that is sick. now the showbiz news ticker and more stories from the newsroom making news right now.

i want us to become friends and figure out our marriage and don't want to be filmed anymore. >> the fallout over jon gosselin's interview bombshells. he reveals he wants to be friends with kate? is he for real? we name the most provocative celebrity of the week. jon gosselin, roman polanski and david letterman? who will come out on top. >> one thing to have a fish fry, but frying your pet goldfish to get back at your common-law

husband? >> that's sick. >> the story of a woman's swift swifted revenge. tv's most provocative news show continues right now. welcome back to "showbiz tonight." it is 30 minutes past the hour. broadcasting tonight and every night from new york city. tonight the incredible fallout after jon gosselin's first interview since he demanded that tlc shut down jon and kate plus eight. the big news breaking in a revelation. kate's attorney said she watched jon's interview and even heard jon say he wants to be friends again. what in the world can kate be thinking tonight? what did tlc say after jon slammed them on larry king accusinging the network of

blindsiding him and blasting them for continuing to tape the show which he now calls unhealthy for his kids. in more big news, jon's bombshell about how much he and the family have really been getting paid to do jon and kate plus eight. the surprising amount of money he spent on marriage counseling. in hollywood, an entertainment reporter and kimmer is pin who is an editor with "in touch weekly." as if this couldn't be more out of control, for the first time, we have jon gosselin speaking out, explaining why he sent tlc that order so they would halt taping of jon and kate plus eight. you have to see what he said about why he wants the show to end. >> it's not healthy for my kids to be going through this. i had an epiphany day and looked in the mirror and said i don't want to be this person anymore. i made mistakes and messed up

and i regret a lot of things, but i have to learn and move forward. i have a great lawyer now and he is my manager. i have great support from his family and haley. i have a sense of empowerment that i have to take back my life. >> he had an epiphany and wants to be a better man. i'm all for people changing for the better, but do you buy that he is a changed man after everything that has gone down? >> not at all. every time he speaks it's two to three weeks later he regrets it. he will regret this interview too. it makes no sense. he is not a genuine person. he needs to go away for a good year and let's see his actions. what happens and how he reacts. not what he said on "larry king live." you can't believe it. >> chi go away for more than a

year. let's examine this. here's what's fascinating he had an epiphany after tlc fired him and announced his name was being dropped. the show was taping as of last friday. kim, why don't you chime in. did he have an epiphany or perhaps he has an ulterior motive. >> people have epiphanies when they lose a paycheck and the name is removed from a show they were the star of and public opinion turns against them and they are the put of every late night comic's joke. for john, he looked in the firer, not the other things. is it possible that he did have an epiphany? yes. it happen when is something big happens in your life, but he needs to explain in more detail this epiphany and was it when you and kate separated or saw

what was happening in his and family? he needs to explain a little bit more for it to ring true. the timing does make it seem not so legit. >> he needs to say i had an epiphany when i got fired from the show. jon said in the past he thought the kids were having a terrific time doing the show. now he said something different. he is saying the show is detrimental to the kids and he wants tlc to stop shooting. listen to what he told larry king about that. >> i don't want them to film anymore. i don't think it's healthy and the reason is that we are going through a divorce right now and i don't think it should be televise and i think my kids should be taken off the show. now i had a sense of empowerment and before i didn't have representation. i take blame for not being an initiator. i was an avoider and i was passive. >> you might be wondering what is tlc say being all this? we reached out today and as of

show time they have not responded. i find it odd because they have not been shy about responding to anything. silence. what does that tell you? parra are this doesn't shock me. they are getting a legal team together, but for jon to say they are exploiting their kids, hello! you are on a reality show. you exploit. they signed up talent to make a profit. they are a tv network. why is this a surprise? >> jon said he takes the blame for being passive up until now about having his kids on tv. do you think he deserves credit now for taking the blame here or as it appears to me, is he talking out of both sides of his mouth? >> yes, he is owning up to it and you have to give him credit for that and in a way, he is echoing the sentiments of a lot of people out there. a lot of people have been saying this for a long time and they think the show is detrimental. is he agreeing?

is it possible he could get back on the good side of people and he is now seeing the light? whether it's a pr stunt or his lawyers in there and whether he is repeating the statements that somebody told him to say, it doesn't matter. it's ringing true with a lot of people. he might get credit. >> "showbiz tonight" learned today that kate actually watched jon's interview on cnn's "larry king live" and you remember jon said weeks ago he despises kate. he nice things to say abouticate to larry. watch this. >> now looking back and what happened after filing for divorce, this is a media explosion. i have been on the cover of a magazine since january. it's crazy. i want this to stop and i want kate and i to mediate and to figure out our marriage and i don't want the kids involved. >> jon also said he wanted to apologize to kate for his actions.

i am trying to imagine her watching jon larry king he wants to be friends with her. do you think kate was saying fat chance, jonny? >> i think they feed off of each other. if they really wanted to put their differences aside and do what's best for the kids, she wouldn't go on have "the view" and he wouldn't go on larry king and they would have a conversation. i believe they love this. they really feed off of each other and she thinks you did this and now i'm going to try to one up you and do this. she is planning her next attack. >> do you think that's what's going on? this is ugly. >> sure. they could stop filming tomorrow and we would still be talking about it and kate's appearance on the view and what is said on the "today" show and what jon said on larry king. that is creating this frenzy, not the show that 1.3 million people watched on monday night down 90% in ratings.

>> there has been a lot of speculation overtime about how much money jon and kate earned. larry king asked him about that. >> you made a lot of money, didn't you, jon? >> no. >> what did you make? last year? >> how much did he make off of jon and kate plus and how many thousands did he spend on counseling? stay where you are. our coverage continues with his startling answers. you won't want to miss them. speaking of jon gosselin, he is a major contender for the most provocative celebrity of the week and what a right it has been as the family implodes in front of our very eyes. he is not the only star making us shake our heads. roman polanski's sex charge arrest drama and david letterman's black mail sex shocker. we are naming the most provocative celebrity of the week and i can't wait to reveal the winner or is it the loser?

>> frying your own pet goldfish to get back at your common-law husband? >> that's sick. >> do you remember the nursery rhyme there once was a woman who swallowed a fly? i have the story of a woman who swallowed her husband's fried goldfish. wait until you find out why. oh, my. now the showbiz news ticker and more stories from the newsroom making news right now.

>> who will be named the most provocative celebrity of the week? certainly a tough choice, but we will make the call in a moment. you won't want to miss it when "showbiz tonight" names the most provocative celebrity of the week. i'm a.j. hammer and want to get back to one of the nominees who may be the winner. our coverage of the new interview continues now with jon's war.

what about the money? wait until you hear what jon is saying about the money he and his family have been makeing from jon andicate and the huge money he spent on therapy. he said he tried to save the marriage, not kate. an entertainment journalist and also in hollywood, kim is a senior editor for "in touch weekly." there has been wild speculation about how much the gosselins have been making for the reality show. one number that has been thrown around a lot, $75,000 an episode. jon thads ain't right. he did say they did make a million dollars for the year. >> after taxes is $500,000 divided by 10. the agreement is the gosselin family. we are not broken out. that's what we made. 22.5 per episode. a far cry from the number we have been hearing about. are you surprised by the major

chris crepe andiscrepancy. >> it's jon's doesn't t to do the best for his family. if dumb enough not to get suggestions, he's not fit to be a father. that's common sense. >> the number is not what people imagined they were making all along. >> not at all. not like it was okay to exploit them for $75,000, but not $22.5? at least this way the kids will be paid for the rest of their lives. certainly that is a huge difference and it makes a lot of this trouble not worth it. they should be paid more especially when you consider the publicity tlc is getting. >> no question about it. to be sure, $22.5 million is

nothing to shake a stick at. they revealed to larry king and i found this interesting what he spent on marriage counseling. take a look. >> i went to counseling with a $22,000 bill for last year. i tried to do everything. >> that's a lot of therapy. if you ask me, it doesn't seem like it worked. do you think they should demand a refund? i do. partake the receipt and fire the guy. that is ridiculous. you should be an angel. >> unbelievable. his interview did come -- >> he used words like avoider and he is not afraid to commit and all the terms from therapy. that's where he got it. >> price per word about $5,000 each. his interview he tried to shut down for good. since that happened, the phone lines have not stopped ringing. we got a call who said right on, jon. >> hooray for jon even if he is

doing it for the wrong reason. it's the best thing that can be done. >> i appreciate your call. it might be for the wrong reasons, but wanting his kids off a reality show is probably the most adult thing he has done. wouldn't you say? >> i don't necessarily agree with that. there plenty of kids in hollywood in the industry that it doesn't mess them up. you know what will affect them most? watching the interaction between mom and dad. that will be the decider. whether they are on or not, that is an excuse. >> everyone is sitting around wondering if he will be named the most provocative celebrity of the week. jon is up there for everything that happened this week from him trying to shut down jon and kate plus to his tv confessions and roman polanski who was arrested in switzerland on a decades old

charge related to having sex with a minor and sparked air debate on whether he should be let go. david letterman confessed on the show just last night he was the target of a $2 million extortion attempt claiming he had sex with the women who worked for him. "showbiz tonight" is naming roman polanski the most provocative celebrity of the week. did we get it right? >> i think so. we are talking about jon gosselin and he was able to take over the news yesterday even though michael jackson, the results of the autopsy were released and nobody was talking about that. roman polanski has a broader impact. this is what top radio airwaves were talking about. this is an international thing and the guy who led the country and was not hiding. he was making moves at the same time. he has so many other implications in terms of children and rape allegations and definitely they made the right choice. >> we are not alone.

before we made our choice, we asked our fan who is they thought should be named the most controversial and a lot of people said it should be jon gosselin, including amy. jon gosselin for sure. get a life. what do you think? did we get it right? >> this is tough. mint chocolate chip or vanilla. i think it's jon gosselin. this is a story that resonates with people and you have eight kids involve and a single mother. it's jon gosselin. >> thanks, guys. let's move on to the outrageous story of a woman eating a pet goldfish for revenge. >> thing to have a fish fry, but frying a pet goldfish to get back at your common-law husband? >> that's sick. >> revenge is a dish best served gold. what do you call deep fried goldfish? the true story you have to see. this is "showbiz tonight" on hln. now the "showbiz news ticker." more stories making news right

now. now making it work. "showbiz tonight" reveals the steekts how stars make their relationships work. she's been married to billy balance win for 14 years. they have three children together themselves come from famous families. chynna is the daughter from the mamas and the papas. and as she relaunches her cigarette career, i had to ask her how she makes it work.

>> communication. you have to talk. you can't sweep it opportunity carpet. and also, you have to remember that you'll have your bad days and good days. your ups and your downs and there might be months at a time where you drive each other up the wall but you get through it. you made your vows under god. and you stick with it. it is one reason it is in stores now. we had promised to bring you the entire interview today. instead we'll have it for out monday.

welcome back to "showbiz tonight." i'm a.j. hammer in new york. the outrageous case of the fried pet goldfish. a texas woman got really, really fired up after an argument, and she really want some big time revenge. so she cooked up a plan to get back at her common law husband and took it out on his poor goal fish. that is just so wrong on so many levels. here cnn with a true showbiz shocker that only sounds like a fish tale. >> reporter: from the fish bowl into the frying pan. it's one thing to have a fish

fry but frying your own goldfish to get back at your common law husband? >> that's sick. >> reporter: then eating them? >> oh, gross. >> reporter: it happened in this apartment in pasadena, texas. let me make it clear. no goldfish will be harmed in the making this report which is why we'll be recreating events using these. let's see. seven fried goldfish. 55-year-old manuel moriarty reported that his common law wife had kidnapped his goldfish from his apartment. the two had been arguing about some jewelry she had given him that he refused to give back. the police report that he would regret it. when a police officer went to where the wife was staying, she let him into the kitchen where he found a plate with four fried goldfish on it and asked about the other three, she said she had eaten them. now it's bad enough to swallow a goal fish that's not your pet. but to swallow 339 of them in

two hours as this college student did -- >> push it down with your tongue. it's lake an oyster. >> reporter: people gulp them down alive out of a jar of water. >> i have to get more water! >> he did it! >> reporter: or swallow them dry. >> chew on it. >> reporter: but to fry and dine on pets you bought together in a happier time? that will wipe the smile off a fish's face. no charges will be filed. the husband didn't want to pursue the matter. they say revenge is a dish best served cold. apparently not when goldfish are on the menu. >> i have to till, i sit here every night and i speak for a living. i am truly speechless after that story. i have no speech at all. that was cnn for "showbiz tonight." i'm a.j. hammer in new york. remember, you can always catch "showbiz tonight" on the 11s. we make it easy for you. we're on at 11:00 p.m. eastern

and pacific. right here on hln. stories making the headlines this week. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com this is your prime news break. yet another reason to party it up in rio. the city will be the host of the 2016 summer olympics and that mean a huge disappointment for chicago. president obama and the first lady made a direct appeal for the game in copenhagen. and a late night scandal involving david letterman has landed one man in jail. cbs news employee robert joe halderman is cued of demanding $2 million from david letterman. he allegedly threatened to expose him. he is charged with attempted grand larceny. 3,000 peel may still be trapped under the rubble of this week's deadly earthquake. rescue workers are still finding survivors. wednesday's quake had a magnitude of 7.6.

it kill 1,100 people. officials say that number will probably go up. those are the headlines. i'm richelle carey.

i've got more straws in here than the betty ford clinic. all that and more from the time warner center tonight. you never know what my guest is going to say or say behind your back. mer brand of comedy is brash and takes no prisoners. in fact, i am wearing body armor right now. please help me welcome to my table. kathy griffin.

>> i love that you pointed out that i talk about people behind their backs. here's why. i think it is interesting when people want me to confront these celebrities. the truth is, i was raised right. i talk about people behind their backs. so when people say that on reality shows, if you have something to say, say it to my face. i would rather wait until you leave the room. because i can be funnier and it is more freeing. >> sometimes you get into trouble. you have said things that i have down here. suck it, jesus. for example. >> when i won my first emmy. >> why were you interested in offending every christian in the world? >> i like to offend religious groups more than individuals. i like to offend individuals, don't get me wrong. but i find that deities and religious groups are the most funny. when i told jesus to suck it. that was me doing a spoof, usually the grammys. they go up there and thank god. miley did it after dancing on the pole.

>> i know. >> i said jesus had nothing to do with the award, this award is my god now. and then they took out a huge ad against me and spent more money than bravo ever would. advertising my life on the d list. it was great publicity for me. >> do you get death threats? >> yes. >> how do you handle that? that is scary? >> i laugh at all of it. that is probably why i am not a security expert. i would not be a good homeland security expert. i would say just laugh at those jihadists. they are a riot. >> i had two names for you. salmon rushdie. >> he was on my list. i got tip from him. how to deal with a -- i have a hollywood one at all times. mostly perpetrated by barbara walters. >> let's leave her out of this conversation. >> do we have to? >> yes, you could. because there are other people.

regis, for example. you haven't been invited back. >> did you know you are in my book. >> i heard about that. >> my book has an index where you can look yourself up and you can see what page you are on there by having to not read the whole book at all. >> what did i do for you? >> what happened was i was on "the view" one time and you said to me out of the blue, have you been on regis lately and i said no. and i said know, and you said because gelman was regis's [ bleep ]. and then i said i haven't been on the show. then you were laughing. and you said i'll bet that's why. i have not been on regis and kelly lee -- let's go with that. that's how long it has been since i have been on the show that i believe i have a fatwa from gelman. i didn't know he could put one on. >> he doesn't want to be known as regis's [ bleep ]. >> that's funny. >> it is funny.

maybe some people don't have the same sense of humor. >> you don't think that regis beats gillman? >> he beats him verbally. >> regis is the boss. when you do get into trouble, you will not apologize? >> i will not apologize for jokes. i apologize if i stepped on your toe. >> you mean literally? >> i've apologized for many, many things. but saying suck it jesus at the creative arts emmys is so clearly a joke starting a rumor that dakota fanning is going rehab at 9 years old. it's very clearly a joke. >> that's funny. they went after you for that? >> if i had said it about lindsay lohan, that is not to clear. but to say it about a 9-year-old is obviously a joke. >> what about the facts that david letterman apologized to sarah palin. do you think he should have or not? that was a joke. >> in my book i talked about being banned from letterman. as i was writing the book, my

12-year ban was lifted. >> why? >> i think because i swore too much. i don't know for sure. the way they work, they never want to come out and say you're banned. they just want to keep not booking you. after winning emmys and going to iraq, they can't find a spot for me but they can have spencer but they can find a spot for him. then on letterman i was a fallout. when you are on the d-list, that is what you do. the show has booked a real star. they get a head cold. paula abdul and they call me and i rush and fill in. that is how i got to go back on letterman. >> what does this mean when you do it like that? what do you really want to say? >> i would say that paula abdul appears to be under the influence of really enjoying life. >> she says she has pain medication or something simple like that. >> if she is saying she has pain

medication, i'm agreeing with her. >> i loved her on aisle "idol." >> i thought she was a good one. >> in the book i talk about sexism in hollywood. you know that game. i'm sorry. i think it's appalling that seacrest makes $45 million and paula made $3 million. she gets a tenth of what the guys get? a 12th? >> i think he was getting $45 million for various jobs. >> she is a big reason people watch that she and she was one of the big reasons i watched it. >> you needed somebody nice and somebody who would come on to the kids. it was great. now you talk about sexism in hollywood. why in hollywood? it is all over the place. >> i can't believe how bad it still is. when i was a kid and joan rivers took on the tonight show, i thought it would be 50/50.

there isn't a female in network late night to this day. there was one, joan rivers and never again, is mind-blowing to me. >> after she had her own show and didn't tell johnny carson she was getting her own show, the patriarch was upset, she was banned from the shows as well. she was recently invited back once or twice over the last 20 years. she was banned also. is that a female thing that they ban women? >> yes. >> only women? >> as far as having those shows, i believe it is a woman thing. even the clubs. i don't know about the banning part. i think a lot of the guys don't necessarily know what to do with the woman. if you are not the hot chick they don't know what to do with you. if you are not the starlet on coming on in your short dress saying, our tv show is like a family. one time we played a joke where we switched cola for coffee. >> they love that. >> with a woman comedian, it is too much power.

we have the mike, we're funny. it's not easy to deal with. >> there is the whole thing. generally don't think that chicks are funny. when i do my shows i perform for gay guys and a lot of women. a lot of guys say my wife dragged me and i didn't want to come but you are really funny. >> do you think there is less sexism among women? is there camaraderie? >> sometimes yes, sometimes no. there are a few of us vying for a few jobs. we're all fighting for a handful of jobs. so sometimes girl on girl crime can be the worst. i think ultimately, luckily i have been lucky enough to have a lot of girls help me along the way. the first week i did stand up, i had feminists with. >> they are both feminists. they will be good for you. >> they were very helpful. but i love all the gals. i love chelsee -- sandra and joan rivers. >> what about ellen? >> i love her. >> you were nasty in the book. >> i thought she really kind of

ruled that set with an iron fist. it took me back a little bit. >> if she were a man you wouldn't be saying that. you would say she was strong and tough. >> what she did is i felt like she had me perform like a circus monkey which normally i am happy to do. i do have little cymbals attached to my fingers at times. i am a big admirer of hers and all she accomplished. i think i am currently banned from her show. i have been out about three years. >> you do just fine. you are not on the d-list. you are an a-list person and to be on the d-list person sounds wrong. >> i think you're saying that because you have to because i'm sitting across from you. and you have a huge gay following. >> thank god for gays. >> what is that about? >> i get along with gay guys. i didn't have to put any effort. >> i remember in the early days,

the gay audience was easier to deal with. they were downtown and they got -- >> it was geography for you? >> when i got uptown, it was hetero and harder to deal. you had to deal with guys. straight guys. >> i call them -- they are already in a minority that has to struggle and already feel like being on the outside looking in and that is what the d list is. that's why i do well with gay audiences. and the kind of stand up. what am i going to say to a gay person that they haven't already heard. unless i mention going to cher's house. >> they don't really admire you they want to be you? >> and vice versa. there are a lot of gay guys i would love to be. i think my life would be easier if i were a gay guy. >> who has a bigger fan base? you, cher, or larry craig? >> larry. he has more of a niche crowd but they're very passionate.

>> we will be right back. >> hi, i am kathy griffin. i'll be on -- i'm on the show. i think we are live from baghdad. we are going be at a desk. there is going to be a lot of ieds. we're going to gossip. we will talk smack about celebrities.

we are back with the very funny kathy griffin. i do remember your name. a lot of thing in your book are serious. >> this book hits you with a few serious topics. >> i did not expect to find out that your brother was a pedophile. what do you mean? >> i am writing a memoir. if people are going put down their hard earned money they need something they will not get if they come see me live. i had to write about the serious stuff. i was torn. part of me wanted to make it a humor book. the type of books that i like are honest and forthright.

barbara walters audition was one of them. she was very honest in revealing. and joan rivers and paula dean and all about the cooking. and those are the type of books i like to read so i had to talk about my eldest brother, kenny, who is now passed away. he was a pedophile. >> how did he die? >> so awful. he was homeless and a crack addict and lived on the streets for years and he actually died in my mom's arms. >> sad. >> very, very sad. lived to be i think 60 years old. >> when you say he was a pedophile, did he molest children? >> yes. >> he did? >> that's what a pedophile is. >> you don't say that exactly in your book. >> that's what i mean. it's a serious thing. >> you say he got into bed with you when you were a little girl. >> when i was a little kid like under ten years old and he was 20 years older than i. he would get into bed with me and whisper. >> did he touch you? >> not that i recall.

>> if you walk into a bedroom and you saw a 7-year-old kid and there was a guy 20 years older than her, cuddling with her whispering sweet nothings in her ear -- >> it's creepy. >> exactly. >> i don't know that he molested you. >> i don't know what the word is and i've never used that word for me. i always say sexually inappropriate. i don't know what to call it. i have talked to various experts. one thing they have talked to me a lot about is the denial that often comes along with the crime. i am 48. we are talking 40 years ago. we almost didn't have the word pedophile there. >> that was before oprah and phil. >> exactly. and then in two long term relationships, both of the women told me about him molesting kids and many years later, i became estranged from him and it was a divisive thing.

my dad said why are you completely estranged from kenny, i and said i believe he is a pedophile. my dad's sons -- my brother's response to my dad was i do what i do. >> oh. so he admitted it? >> look if someone accused me of being a pedophile, my answer would not be i do what i do. it's a very sort of amorphous thing. it is a kroim that doesn't have the witnesses come forward. i called the lapd. i tried to get them to investigate. then they couldn't because they said they needed to kids to come forward. i had the address of the apartment he was managing. i tried to get them to go ask them. it is a big thing to deal with and it had a big influence on me. everything from probably -- >> scarring. i think it scars you. really getting to the point. >> it is all about secrets. >> my act is all about blurting out everything and no secrets and sort of revealing everything. when i wrote this book, i couldn't write a book without

writing about him. although it was the most difficult part for sure. >> did you tell your mother? >> yeah. >> what did your mother say? >> my mom and dad still like, they didn't really know quite what it was. couldn't put it together. it is a tough thing. it is like the priest scandal. where the priests would go up -- >> i had a gay priest, a cousin who died of aids. >> gay doesn't mean pedophile. >> no. but he moved parrish to parrish to parish. so there is something in your family. >> i always wondered. that is a big part of the book. i am not a big secret keeper. i don't think secrets ever work. they just fester. >> it is not like you to not talk about things. it's good that you did. let's talk about your husband for a minute. i have met your husband. seemed like a nice guy. you were happily married. he was in the car with you, on the "d" list. what happened? >> i was actually quite happily

married. there is a part and then i think that there was some, you know, financial inproprieties that happened. >> he stole money from you? >> $72,000? >> what did he do with it? >> to this day i don't know. >> how did you find out? >> my accountant called. >> did you confront him? >> yes. >> what happened then? >> at first he denied it and then he said it was me. he said they tell me the bank has a tape of someone taking my atm card, going up. i said look apparently there is a tape. if there is a tape you might as well tell me before someone sees it. >> i was stunned. >> so are you divorced? or separated? >> totally divorced. >> do you have to pay him alimony? california is so crazy about that. >> it was not about the money. the first person i talked to -- not the first person but on tv, i talked to larry king. he was talking about the money and the dollar amount. it really is about the trust. i started to question everything and do i really know him.

did i ever know him. why did he lie about this? you know this happened over a period of about two years. >> yeah. >> going into my wallet when i was asleep, taking my atm cards, withdrawing $1500 and putting the cards back in the wallet before i woke up. >> it's a betrayal. >> yes. and it's bizarre and i couldn't figure it out. i didn't know why he needed it or what he wanted. he never showed up with a rolex watch. >> so you off marriage forever? >> i am off marriage. >> and there are single guys that are available. ryan o'neal. people like are that available. >> i think that would be healthy. >> you could turn into a lesbian, that type of affair with your husband. if someone goes into my bank account, i am down with the girls. >> say hello to kathy. >> we'll be back.

back with a woman who has a tongue that could cut you. speaking of cutting, you had plastic surgery that almost killed you. >> i call it dental work. that is my code. >> why? >> in hollywood. that's what they say. a few of the desperate housewives have been to the dentist. a couple times. i think everyone has been to the dentist. there is somebody on the hills that has like lip plumping. everyone goes to the deputyist. >> it doesn't have to do with age. now people have to look exactly how everybody else looks. you had a little problem with plastic surgery and then you did it again. why did you do it again?

you almost died from it. >> because i am insecure and i want to be better. i would lake to be jennifer aniston. >> you will not be jennifer aniston. >> why? >> because then my life would be better. >> why? >> so pick somebody else. i want to be somebody from the hills. i want to be one of the kardashians. i want to be khloe. >> you thought i would say kim. >> i don't know who they are. you think that everybody has to have surgery. you say that lisa kudrow got a boob job, died her hair blond and became a star overnight. >> i knew her from the audition circuit. she was auditioning, auditioning, not really getting a break. she and i auditioned for "saturday night live" together. she got a nose job, died her hair blond, she was on cheers, mad about you and then "friends".

skyrocketed to fame. i don't think it hurt. >> so it really does help. >> i don't may not to bother the camera people. especially the p.a. >> they are a chatty group here. i was reading that one of the girls from "saturday night live." >> i would like a latte with nonfat milk. come on you have to keep up appearances. >> i have had botox. i will shout it from the roof tops. i don't care if anybody knows it. why is it such a secret? how come comics always tell it. roseanne told it. joan told it. >> it's too funny. it's too ridiculous. the whole idea that there is a celebrity door and you have got to do the celebrity knock and they know you're famous for how many knocks. i stand out and say i am kathy griffin, let me in. i can't get in the celebrity door. it's a disaster. but there is a whole culture of plastic surgery. i am on the d list in the plastic surgeon's office.

i think all women want to look -- i talked to bette midler ask she says all women want to look better. i don't care had a they are. i'm a victim as much as anybody. >> are you going to talk about me in your next act? >> yes. >> he's a guy that i dated in college. it is an italian word that means you are out of it. >> i will say that and i will say -- what do you call your boyfriend? >> my spousal equivalent. steve. >> you are worse than the gays. a spousal equivalent? >> he is a spouse without being a spouse. thank you, kathy griffin. her new book, official book club selection is in stores now. thanks, kathy. >> i am a little nervous because we have just done one of our blocks and she mentioned being

stunad and i don't know what that is.

earlier this week i had a chance to talk to bette midler who made ff have the history as one of johnny carson's last guests. ♪ ♪ long road [ applause ] >> one of great moments in television. now she is my first guest.

thank you for coming on the show. it sort of tear me up. here is hoping the magic continues. thank you honey for coming on the show. it tears us up when we see that. doesn't it? >> maybe you. for me i am all smiles. once in a while i get misty eyed. he was a wonderful guy. he did so much for me. so much for so many people that i know. >> i never got on his show. >> that's too damn bad. >> who cares. i am sorry he is dead. >> here you have a show of your own. congratulations. >> let's not talk about him. >> he was a great guy and you'll have a great run. >> i am glad you are my first guest ask you were his last. do you think he ever wanted to leave? >> i think some people really want to and some people don't. i think there are some people working in television who will have to be carried out feet first. no names. and other people who have had enough. it is hard work. when you look around. if you're a certain kind of a person, a curious person, you

say, gee, it's a lot the same. i have been doing this for a long time and every day is pretty much the same. those kinds of people say i have had enough. >> what would you do if you were not in vegas. >> we were not talking about me. i am not retiring and you can't make me. if i were going to retire i wouldn't announce it. i would just back up into the wings and walk away. why would you say i am going to retire. why would you announce it? then if you change your mind. >> look at cher, she always has a come back. >> god bless her. she's made it pay. >> let's talk politics. i know that you stumped for obama. >> was that the first time you stumped for a president? >> no. i stumped for a lot of democrats. since the '70s. >> they have been calling him a lot of bad names which is really stupid. they are the opposites, really. what do you think about that? >> i think it's a new low in

political discourse and it is very distressing. people of good will are distressed by it because it is so ugly and whacky. >> what should people of good will do? >> people of good will should talk rationally and politely in a civil tone. and people should be willing to listen to the other side and people should be willing to listen to your side. that seems to be gone. >> we are trying to do that. someone like glenn beck has made a lot of money because he is out there being hateful in many ways. he calls himself a clown and a comedian. do you think he is funny? >> i have never had a laugh from glenn beck. i find him terrifying. he is like an old school demagogue and that is frightening. if you look at the rest of the world what this behavior has done in rwanda where the demagogues gone on the radio and

fermented all the hate. the devastation that happened from that. it's terrifying. that could happen here. you could turn on a dime. that could happen here. >> we have free speech here. everything he says we can -- >> i don't think hate speech should be so free. i'm not for censorship but i also feel like be a human being. >> but you can't stop people because they have the right to say it. it's the first amendment. >> i think that people who are educated to be civil are civil. that's all there is to it. people who are not educated are just on the barbaric side, what can you do? that's the fault of the education system. the way they're brought up. >> it's in a lot of trouble. the education system. what do you think of sarah palin? >> i think she is an interesting character on the american scene. >> do you identify with her? americans do. >> i don't. >> she hunts and fishes. >> i don't think she hunts and

fishes. >> according to levi johnson, she doesn't hunt or fish or cook. >> do you believe him? >> that article was so fascinating because it -- the voice in the article seemed so legitimate that i kind of sort of could go either way. >> so you believe him over her? those people laughing are alcoholics anonymous, i hear. >> i don't know many journalists. i know one or two. i don't know how they do what they do. i don't know how they manage to get all of that information from someone lake levi johnson. >> you don't know if he is telling the truth. >> do you know if anyone is telling the truth any time ever? we used to have these father figures. walter cronkite. he's telling it like it is. but, where is walter? you know? >> he died a few weeks ago. >> i know that.

that's what i mean. >> two dead people in this one conversation so far. >> and we could go on. this was a very bad year. >> i want to change the subject. >> and i am dying right now. >> you and i are constantly -- think they i am you and you are me. let's look at the camera together. there is a picture. look, do we look alike? i don't think so. >> i had a look on my face like why are you pointing that camera at me. you're like yeah, here i am. >> i look like someone is pointing something behind me. in this, we have had photographs taken where we do look very much alike especially when i had red hair. but i haven't had red hair for 30 years. so there you go. >> i was on a cruise before i had "the view." i performed and walked around the boat and i talked to people and then i overheard someone say how could they afford bette midler. that was at the end of the cruise.

>> that's hilarious. >> i was in paris. i went on a little holiday not so long ago. yesterday i got back. >> did you see roman polanski? >> i did not see him. i am sitting in a line and and a lady said you look just like bette midler and i said thanks. and she said i bet you wish you had her money. >> great story. your achas been like -- i love your work. i love your work. i saw you in vegas, in theaters in new york. the old days, you know. when you were first starting with barry manilow. all those great years and i have all your albums. i am gushing over you. >> thank you. >> you are not blue. >> i work blue. >> i don't think that is blue. i would say you are baudy. >> you have to tell the audience at home what blue means. >> that means you are swearing. you might drop the f-bomb.

er in that george carlin said not to use. but you can do it in a concert. >> you can and i do. i sometimes feel like i am working a little blue for my crowd. >> they love it. >> they -- my husband says they pay to hear you swear. at first i was like offended and then i was like i think he is right. >> tell us what the hoolaween party is for? >> for my organization called new york restoration project. we clean parks in underserved neighbors. we are owner, designers and caretakers of 55 community gardens. we teach children's environmental education. we teach rowing programs. we teach, teach, teach. >> you're very good. do you have ocd or something? what do you have that causes you to want to clean up new york? >> i think it is a compulsion. i really do. i was brought up in the most beautiful spot in the whole world. i was brought up in hawaii.

when i came to the continent of the united states of north america, i said why are the clouds brown? >> that was california. >> right. that was california. why is there garbage on the street. i couldn't understand it. that disturbed me. i got on that path and never left. i never thought i would still be picking up garbage so many years after i stopped dating it. >> that's a good line. >> thank you. >> so vegas. how do you like vegas? >> i have gotten to know the town, vegas, a little bit. i have friends there and relationships. >> you have friends there with normal people? >> there are a lot of normal people. i learned poker. i can't play blackjack. but i did learn poker. i have any little thing that i carry with many all the time. >> how does your husband like it there? >> he doesn't mind it at all. it is glittery and glamorous. >> he is a performer. >> he is. >> i saw him at your birthday party. and he did a little performance art thing. he was very charming.

>> he is extremely charming. he is brilliant. >> i go everywhere with him. >> so you are going to keep him? >> 24 years. yeah. he loves all of this and he has seen the show 40 or 50 times and he cries and laughs every single time. he's crazy. >> he is a keeper. really nuts. >> yeah. >> you should keep him, though. >> i got him. >> okay, bette, i am so happy that you came to see me. >> is this it? are we over. >> we're done. we had such a good time. this was my first show. i had a wonderful night. all may friends here tonight. go ahead. >> i want to say that hoolaween is on october 30. at the waldorf astoria. be there or be square. crosby, stills and nash will be there. and i will probably serve chicken pot pie. >> and you usually sing. >> i always sing. and we are honoring the mayor. >> thanks. that was one of the best. back with vanessa williams in just a minute.

you know, not for nothing, but my show has been on the air for two minutes and already i have been called every name in the book. stupid, dumb, loud mouth and marxist. i own property. okay, it is in foreclosure but still.

this name calling doesn't bother me. i am used to it. bill o'reilly once called me a pinhead and a christian columnist actually called me a fatty bloom blaty. which version of the bible does he read? king james or dr. suess. let me say something, i am a mature woman capable of intelligent discourse. i like to partake in well-informed conversation. i relish the thought of sitting down with all of my adversaries. i invite all of you to come on the show to discuss things like rational adults even if you are a big bunch of doody heads, but that's just me.

my next guest made headlines when she became the first black miss america 26 years ago. that was a long time ago. it seem like yesterday. today she continues her career as a world famous actress and singer. she just released her latest the real thing. she's been nominated for an emmy three time for her role as the cold hearted diva on abc's ugly betty. let's look at that. >> am i smiling? i can't tell? >> i think you are. >> oh, willie. so good to be back and have health insurance again. i have this weird mole thing.

daniel still runs mode and alexis still runs me. >> to divide the house of media. >> please welcome vanessa williams. >> am i smiling? i can't tell. >> you are. kathy griffin and i were talking about plastic surgery and she says that basically you can't get along in hollywood without some kind of plastic surgery, and it is not just older women. >> there is a pressure to stay young and stay in the game. when i was 40 i wanted to maintain the way i looked. i didn't want to look like anybody else. >> why would you want to look like somebody else? >> i would rather look like you if i were you. >> that is when i first partook in botox. >> we love it and it is easy. it is needle and you are in and out in less than 20 minutes. if you don't like it, you don't have to do it. if do you like it, you get it

done every four months or so. and it's wonderful. also in the show i'm very vocal about using it as a character. and the maker of botox cosmetic asked me to be the spokesperson. it is a joint venture. we are doing these events across the country. talking about the effects and safety but also giving back. we have given $250,000 to dress for success. a great nonprofit. >> that's a good charity. >> it's a great combination. >> the thing is that you will say that you have had it. >> why lie? >> everybody lies. you think that actresses are not lying? come on. >> i guess that is what we get paid to do. lie for a living? >> if i directly ask on may show, on the other show, "the view," they'll say. no they lie through their caps. >> it's crazy. and i think that also, it doesn't apply to men as much.

>> there is -- but the amount of botox going on. almost a million men that are doing it on a yearly basis. it is definitely an issue but something that men want to do. >> why not? >> cutting, it's not permanent. >> botox is not cutting. but people are getting chin implants and boob jobs. >> if you ever bore children, you get the boob job thing. >> >> do you trip over your [ bleep ] on the treadmill? just asking. >> how old are you? >> 46. >> you don't mind saying that either. >> no. they can google it in a second. why lie? >> they're going to find out anyway. >> i started lying about my daughter's age. that's how i do it. are you not scared of getting older? >> do i like getting older? >> no one likes it. lets be real. no one likes it. >> i am a little, as the body gets bigger and what -- your normal routine doesn't work,

that is when you get into a panic. your normal routine and you are still getting flabby. >> it must be hard for someone like you though. you are still beautiful. but you were really a gorgeous, gorgeous woman. miss america. come on. that's pretty pretty. that is pretty [ bleep ] pretty. >> the pressure is i never felt any pressure. i never grew up with you are a princess. you're gorgeous. i was in pageants before that. i won the whole thing within six months. i had no idea what was going on. i didn't like, i didn't have that pressure. i was a college kid. i had no idea of i have got keep an image up. i don't feel the pressure. when you see yourself on screen, you see that five pounds that i can't lose. >> you were the first black miss america.

>> you were breaking new ground. that was a new thing in those days. have we seen it since? >> oh, yeah. >> how many? >> i don't follow it. but i know there has been at >> do you think that, you know, barack obama's having -- catching a lot of flak from the right wing. >> no one else better to be the first. i mean -- >> he's brilliant. >> he's brilliant. what he's had to face already and it's not even a year yet? not even, you know, going into six months of people shouting in his face in. >> and calling him names. >> calling him names. >> calling him a fascist and -- >> and a communist which is the opposite really. >> and likening him to hitler. it's amazing how passionate and also how very scary for an american to see how divisive it has become. he is the man to do it because he's graceful, he's articulate, he's just -- great class and he's got courage. >> i always say that he would have never been elected if he didn't have everything he

needed. it was like, guess who's coming to dinner where sidmy poitier had everything you could want in a man and that was the only way he would be accented as a black guy, marrying a white girl at that time. it's true in this case, too. >> absolutely. >> more with vanessa williams in a minute.

we are back with singer, actress and former miss america vanessa williams. we were talking about racism in america a little bit. maureen dowd, in one of her columns way back now, couple weeks at this point, talking about how she thought these scurrilous attacks calling obama a racist and people showing up with guns at some of the t.e.a. parties, et cetera, was based on the fact he was black. do you agree with that? >> i unfortunately do. you know? i think that there's a lot of unrest and a lot of people don't want to change. so that -- i think it's based in the fear.

it's always when people act out in that type of anger it's based on fear and it's the fear of change. that's what he promised and what he's trying to do and trying to deliver. a lot of people don't want to change. a lot of people think they're more american if they don't change. things are great. so we're not going to change. we're more american than you are. which is incorrect. >> ridiculous. have you experienced racism? >> absolutely. throughout my life. i mean -- >> at work? >> well, i don't know, because most of my things are auditions so i have no idea what they say behind the scenes. in terms of confrontations and stuff. >> i tell you what they're saying, she's a gorgeous woman. >> but, you know, growing up, of course, been called the "n" word, growing up 234 a prom dentally white neighborhood. >> where did you grow up? >> in west chester. you know? i've been accused of breaking into somebody's car when i was opening my own car door and getting my child's shoe which was incredible.

i've had my kids when they're walking for halloween, one of my daughters was wearing a beautiful queen of hearts dress and a woman behind her said look at the queen of spades. this was in california in a very liberal area. >> nasty people. >> exactly. it happens. >> does it hurt your feelings? >> absolutely. it brings the lion out. makes me want to kill. >> did you turn around and smack that woman? >> my husband at the time had to hold me back. i went to the neighbor who i knew knew this person and i told her. i told her, if anything happens you know it was me. >> when hillary clinton and obama were running in the primaries a lot of lefty people, you know, liberals were saying, i wonder if the country is more sexist or more racist. what do you think? >> oh, boy. >> you're a woman and you're african-american. you're african-american, you're indian-american, you were telling me. >> i did the dna test and we started breaking down what the background was.

it was fascinating. we're all a mixture of things in this country. again, back to who we have leading the country. he's a composite of everybody. you know? >> i thought the country was more racist and -- if anything, i mean, all americans fall into this category but we have people who are sexist and racist in every country. >> i think growing up in new york, okay, it's the south. it's not just the south. >> it's just bad people everywhere and good people everywhere. that's the country. thanks very much for coming on. always a pleasure to see you. thanks, everybody else for coming on and thank you for watching. good night, everybody.

we begin tonight with breaking news in the case of 2-year-old florida girl caylee anthony. in the last hours casey anthony's lawyers taking to the airwaves, blasting newly released state's evidence. their defense -- that somebody e caylee anthony's lawyers are filing motions to drop first-degree murder and aggravated child abuse charges. they want the death penalty taken off the table. this on the heels of 1,000 pages of police documents revealing a major blunder for the state's case.

duct tape found wrapped around caylee's skull contaminated by the fbi. a female lab tech's dna discovered on that piece of duct tape. also, could that hair in casey anthony's truck not show signs of decomposition? that's what the defense is saying. but in another revelation, it is revealed a large stain, the silhouette of a child curled up in a fetal position, found in casey anthony's car trunk. the defense is calling it junk science. they say there is not direct evidence linking casey anthony to her daughter's murder. but how will the anthonys' lawyers explain the 31 days it took to report her child missing and her nights partying around town while little caylee is gone?

>> they got all of their information from me. yet at the same time they're twisting stuff. they've already said they're going to pin this on me if they don't find caylee. >> i believe there's something that's -- i smell it, like, oh my god. there was an overpowering smell of death. >> i forgive whoever has her. i just want her to come home. i just want my baby back. >> she's not a murderer. there's no evidence that casey has ever done any harm to her child. >> i as a mom, i know in my gut there's a feeling as a parent you know certain things about your child. you can feel that connection. and i still have that presence. i know she's alive. my entire life has been taken from me. >> every single one of you, you don't realize what you've done to us, and you don't care. >> i'm frustrated and i'm angry. you don't understand. everybody wants me to have answers. i don't have any answers. i'm not in control over any of this because i don't know what the hell's going on.

mommy loves her very much. she's the most important thing in this entire world to me. >> good evening. i'm jean casarez of the legal network "in session" in for nancy grace tonight. thank you very much for joining us. major developments in the case of 2-year-old florida girl caylee anthony. casey anthony's lawyers fighting to get first-degree murder charges dropped. their defense -- that somebody else killed caylee. >> why didn't you call prior to today? >> fear of the unknown. fear of the potential of caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again. >> she told us on our visitation, our first day of visitation, that she's protecting the family from physical harm including caylee. >> did you cause any injury to your child, caylee? >> no, sir. >> did you hurt caylee or leave her somewhere and you're worried if we find that out that people are going to look at you the wrong way? >> no, sir. >> from day one you guys were building a case against casey as

a murderer. she's not -- the only thing i know is she loves that child. >> you'll never live up to your mother's expectations, right? >> there's no way i would ever do anything or let any harm come to that child. >> when you say you sympathize and all that kind of stuff, you don't give anything about me. you don't care. >> we have to have hope. if you don't have hope, you don't have faith. and i know you don't have faith. >> shut up. >> no, i'm not shutting up. >> she's the one thing in this world that i love more than anything. >> and out to natisha lance, nancy grace producer on this case from the very beginning. first of all, natisha, let's start from the beginning. what is the defense asking for here? >> well, jean, the defense is asking for the first two counts against casey anthony to be thrown out. so that is the murder charge against her as well as the child abuse charge that is against her. now, they are also asking for the death penalty to be taken off the table.

now, the reason that they want these two first counts to be taken off the table is because they feel that the state does not have enough evidence to prove their case. they're saying there is no evidence that links casey anthony to the crime scene and as far as the death penalty is concerned they're saying there's only one aggravating factor that would apply to casey anthony in this case, and that is that the victim is under the age of 12. and they are saying that is not enough in order to get the death penalty. >> natisha, one of the documents that they attached to their motion to dismiss -- and you're right. the defense is asking for this case to be out and right dismissed, totally, so there is not a criminal case of first-degree murder against casey anthony any longer. they focus in on the hair, that we have heard for months now a hair found in the truck showing signs of decomposition, in the trunk of casey anthony's car. what is the defense saying now based on documents released? >> well, jean, they are saying that this is all circumstantial

evidence. and they're calling any test that was done in the trunk of that car to be junk science. >> all right. and i think they are also basing this motion to defense on some discovery just released saying that the hair cannot absolutely say that the hair is from a decomposing body but it is consistent with a decomposing body. we're going to go more into this later. let's go straight out now to kathi belich with cnn affiliate wftv. another thing the defense is focusing on, even through their family attorney, has to do with duct tape. explain. >> that's right. they are really releasing some documents that are state documents before the state released them. and one of them talks about how microscopically the duct tape

that was found stretched across caylee's mouth was dissimilar to the duct tape found on the gas can. now, that's microscopically speaking, which simply means they look different. and you have to remember that the duct tape stretched across caylee's mouth was facing the elements for months and the florida heat. so of course they would look different. and you might remember the fbi tested the adhesive on both pieces of tape, said they were chemically the same and that those two pieces of duct tape could have come from the same roll. you just mentioned the information that they've just

released concerning the hair. that test that they were talking about a couple days ago was actually done early august. it was after that that more tests were done on that hair. and then it was concluded that the hair did show signs of decomposition. so that test came before other tests. the tests are coming to us out of order. you can't read too much into that. >> very good information to find out. now, kathi belich, you and your station also did your own comparison for one of your news stories in the local orlando area about duct tape and duct tape being found on posters when caylee was still a missing person. >> that's right. there was a new focus this week on duct tape. we went back and looked at some of the video we have shot over the months. we looked back at signs that were posted in the anthony's home and caylee posters. we found duct tape on a caylee poster from july 20th of last year, just days after casey was arrested and a month after caylee disappeared. and that duct tape appears to have the same distinct markings on it that you can clearly see on the duct tape that was found on the anthonys' gas can. namely, it has a logo for the company henkel that was the manufacturer and even some specifications concerning temperature on the tape. you can see that on the tape that was found on the caylee poster that the anthonys had put up early in the days of the search for caylee. our legal analyst believes that that is one more piece of evidence, one more piece of duct tape that's similar, that would point to all of them coming from the same roll as a very rare type of duct tape that isn't

manufactured anymore, hasn't been for years, and it's a rare industrial tape. >> all right. we are taking your calls live tonight. kathi, i want to go through this with a fine-toothed comb. the duct tape is from a manufacturer i believe called henkel company, and actually a logo of the henkel company was found on the duct tape? >> that's absolutely right. the logo, it's sort of a black oval logo with a company name on it, and then there's more printing on the tape that it's specifications of a temperature, max temperature 200 degrees fahrenheit. and documents that were previously released to us show that fbi investigators found that same logo also on the tape that was found stretched across caylee's mouth. we understand there are fbi photographs that clearly show that logo. they apparently were provided to the defense months ago in march. the defense has had those photographs since march. and they should be about to be released to us sometime soon. >> kathi, if this duct tape hasn't been available for years, can you purchase it anywhere in

the orlando area? >> i'm not sure if you can purchase it still in the orlando area. the home depot did not sell it. lowe's did sell it. but i believe there were only about 100,000 rolls that were sold across north america. it's a fairly rare duct tape. it's an industrial duct tape. and the fact that three pieces now have been found connected to the anthony family just increases the chances as the fbi said that it's likely those two pieces have come from the same roll. >> seems to me more investigation needs to be done on that. let's go out to the attorneys, susan moss advocate family attorney out of new york, joey jackson defense attorney out of new york. midwin charles defense attorney out of new york also. to susan moss, you know the defense has a point here. they are saying there's just not enough evidence here, you don't have fingerprints, you don't

have fiber evidence, you don't have any forensics that match casey anthony, herself, with the crime. play devil's advocate with me. why shouldn't this case be dismissed? >> absolutely not. even the circumstantial evidence in this case is enough to convict her. 31 days she doesn't tell anyone that this child is missing. and how about the zenaida charade-a? i mean, how can forget the smell of death in her own car? now they're coming out and saying oh, it wasn't the smell of death, it was apparently death-scented pizza? come on, that's absolutely ridiculous. how about her computer searches for chloroform and other ways to kill a child? when you put together the whole package, even without the science, and that science is good, even without the science there's a conviction. >> you know, susan moss, i want to tell you, as an attorney and with court tv covering so many cases for many years, i've covered many death penalty cases that are circumstantial cases and guess what? there is a conviction. one that stands out in my mind is the scott peterson case in california. we all remember that case, right?

that was a circumstantial case. you know what? there was one piece of direct evidence, one piece. and it was in the boat. and it was those pliers that had the sharpened points on them and it had a hair of his wife that was found murdered. he was ultimately convicted on that. but joey jackson, defense attorney, your thoughts on this? because the defense asking for this case to be dismissed. >> well, what'll happen, jean, is this. there's no question about the fact that the discovery of information that they have is going to help them. it's going to help them substantially. but it is certainly not going to lead to the dismissal of the case. but they are going to play it up big in front of the jury.

i have a 3-year-old that's been missing for a month. >> a 3-year-old? >> yes. >> have you reported that? >> i'm trying to do that now, ma'am. >> there's absolutely nothing to find out. not even what i told the detectives. >> well, you know, everything that you're telling them is a lie. >> i have no clue where caylee is. if i knew where caylee was do you think any of this would be happening? no. >> we're talking about a 3-year-old little girl. i need to find her. i don't know what your involvement is, sweetheart. you're not telling me where she's at. >> because i don't [ bleep ] know where she's at. are you kidding me? >> i love her and i support her, and that i understand, and every day that goes by i know exactly how hard it is that she's giving up her life to protect her child. my daughter may have some mistruths out there or half truths but she is not a

murderer. there's no evidence that casey has ever done any harm to her child. >> i as a mom, i know in my gut the feeling as a parent, you know certain things about your child. you can feel that connection. and i still have that feeling. >> what she told me and what i found out was two different things. i don't know casey's reasons for telling me except that what she's told me. she told me she was protecting caylee and she's protecting the family. and until this day i still believe that she's protecting caylee and the family. i'm jean casarez of the legal network "in session" in for nancy grace. let's go out to jada in new york. are you there, jada? >> caller: yes, i am. >> hi. what's your question? >> caller: yes. i've been watching the case and everything from the beginning. and i heard about the stain in the trunk in the shape of a child in the fetal position. >> yes. okay. so you want to know more about that? >> caller: yes.

my question is since the defense is trying to argue that it could be any -- you know, anything, my question would be is when it does go to trial, is it as evidence? would they be able to get a child to lay like, you know, in the silhouette so they can see that it is a child? is that something they would be able to do? >> that's a great question. midwin charles, defense attorney, it just came out that investigators believe through visual examination that they can see a silhouette of an outline of a child in a fetal position in the trunk of casey anthony's car. number one, can that come into evidence? and number two, could the prosecution do a type of experiment showing what a child that age would look like in a fetal position to match the silhouette they say is in the car? >> i'm sure that they can do that. the problem is whether or not it would be convincing to a jury. i mean, that's one of the things we're always trying to work with

here, is whether or not the evidence presented to the jury is substantial enough that they would have no reasonable doubt. and right now you've got a lot of circumstantial evidence but no direct evidence. >> and that is one of the big issues. want to go out to dr. marty makary, physician and professor of public health out of johns hopkins university. you know this hair that we have been hearing about for months in the trunk of casey anthony's car, extremely important forensic evidence. well, what the discovery documents say is that they cannot conclusively say it's a hair of decomposition but is consistent with decomposition. now, as i travel around the country and am in courtrooms, what i hear is that 10 out of 12 markers are consistent with the dna of the defendant. that's a word we hear. can you ever conclusively say something is just so? >> well, most of the time. but most of the time you've got multiple hair cells to make this highly certain diagnosis again and again and again. and with every additional hair cell, that certainty goes up tenfold.

the problem is in this case there's one hair cell and we're told that that hair does not definitively fall under the category of hair that comes from a decomposed person. you know, usually a hair's a treasure trove of information, but sometimes it can be a little ambiguous. >> all right. if a hair is consistent with decomposition in a trunk that has air samples which shows the presence of decomposition, does that give it more strength? >> certainly gives it more strength. you know, not much will give you air samples of decomposition. the body gives off unique chemicals, molecules that become airborne. and those samples really only mean one thing. it means there's a decomposed human being. it doesn't mean there's food or other things bacteria has grown on. it means there's a human being there. >> all right. that evidence is not being attacked by the defense right

here. let's go out to patricia in maryland. hi, patricia. good evening. >> caller: hi. how are you? >> i'm fine. >> caller: my question is about this duct tape that's been messed with in the lab. what happened with that? i mean -- >> that's a great question. let's go to natisha lance, nancy grace producer. talk to us about the duct tape that fingerprints were found on but it happened to be a lab technician, right? investigator. talk to us about that. >> well, actually, jean, it was a hair that was found on there that belonged to this lab technician. so this duct tape has been contaminated. now, there is also a test -- remember there was that residue from a heart-shaped sticker that was on that duct tape. they apparently did a test for fingerprinting on the duct tape and now that residue from that heart-shaped sticker is gone.

can someone let me -- come on! >> casey, hold on, sweetheart. settle down. >> nobody's letting me speak. >> i still believe my daughter. >> i believe in my daughter. >> i already answered this question. >> and you believe she was fabricating -- >> i already answered the question. i'm not answering it again.

>> do you have any interest in helping us? >> i've had interest in helping law enforcement from the beginning. unfortunately, my hands were literally tied and i was put in a position where someone was trying to trick a confession out of me and that's not going to happen. >> casey's lied to me in the past, and when she's lied she's told me the truth. we've always gotten to the bottom of the truth. >> i'm jean casarez of the legal network "in session" in for nancy grace tonight. over 1,000 documents have been released in discovery in the casey anthony case. the defense now has filed two motions. one to dismiss this case outright. they say somebody else killed caylee anthony. and they've also asked for the death penalty to be taken off the table. i want to go to woodrow tripp, former police commander out of atlanta, georgia. it is so true, as our last

caller said, that the duct tape that was found on the skeletal remains had forensic evidence from actually one of the crime scene investigators out of tampa that was at the scene. what does this do to the state's forensic case? >> it definitely, absolutely completely confuses if not totally throws that part of the dna evidence out. >> but isn't there a positive in all of this? they know who that forensic evidence belongs to. it belongs to a crime scene investigator out of tampa that was at the scene. if they weren't able to find out who it was from, it would be this unknown that the defense could go to to say this may be the person that put the duct tape around and therefore murdered caylee anthony. isn't that a positive, though? >> it's a positive in the sense that, yes, they were able to rule out who it was. the negative in this is that that was the only hair. so at this point they're back to zero. >> all right.

to lisa in california. hi, lisa. thanks for calling. >> caller: hi. >> hi. what's your question? >> caller: my question is if casey's mom says that she smelled something in the trunk don't you think she would have gone out to, like, open the trunk and investigated the smell? >> all right. that's a very good question. to marc klaas, president and founder of klaaskids foundation, child advocate. you know, marc, lisa brings us back to the very basics in this case. the family smelled signs of decomposition.

if you think of anything that can help, don't be afraid. >> oh, i won't hesitate to let you guys know. >> being forthcoming and being truthful are two completely separate things. >> did y'all think she was being forthcoming? >> as far as anything else at the moment, there's either nothing that i can obviously give to you now or, you know, there really honestly isn't anything i can think of at this exact moment. >> it's felt to me that there was reluctance. >> i can only do so much from where i'm at. and i want to do so much more, but i can't. >> i don't want you to, you know, feel for any reason that, you know, we're not on your side

about anything, because we are about everything. we're completely behind you. >> oh, i know. >> i just don't know if i can believe what she's saying. you know? >> where are you? we need to meet up. you know, we need to make this happen. >> and what did she say? >> i'm in jacksonville. i said no, you're not. you're here. you know? >> if you'd have told the truth and not lied about everything -- >> how come she never got a chance to get the car? it doesn't make sense. >> mom. >> i trust casey. >> i know my daughter's not leveling with me. and i know this is what she's done in the past. >> all i want is caylee home. but i want to be there when she comes home. >> you know, i've got to believe her that she knows where -- everything is okay. >> i'm jean casarez of the legal network "in session" in for nancy grace. we want to show everybody right here, these are the 1,000 pages of documents that have just come out most recently in discovery. and because of these pages of

documents the defense has concluded that casey anthony did not kill her own daughter. so they have filed a motion to dismiss, saying this court should not entertain this case because there is no direct evidence showing that casey anthony killed caylee. i want to go out to marc klaas, president and founder of klaaskids foundation out of san francisco, california. marc, when you hear all of this and the defense attorneys were on all of the morning shows today talking about this, what are your thoughts? >> well, you know, the defense attorneys have told us time and time again that this case is going to be adjudicated in the courtroom and not on the tv. so it's kind of ironic that they have gone on to this offensive today. and i think it's probably a desperation move. and i also believe that if casey anthony were my client i'd probably be pretty desperate too. but you know, going back to the beginning, as your previous caller had done with the trunk, everything up until the forensics points directly at casey and really at nobody else

despite every attempt that the family has made to point the finger at other people. >> to patricia saunders, clinical psychologist out of new york. you know, marc klaas makes a very good point. the defense has always said we want to try this in the courtroom, we don't want to try this in the court of public opinion. and one thing they said in their motion and they said on some of the news shows today is that casey anthony has very compelling reasons for what she did when she did it after her daughter went missing and it will come out in a trial. and that has to do with not reporting to authorities for 31 days her child was missing, the fact that it's documented that she was partying, that she got a tattoo on her back, "vita bella," good life. how is the defense going to explain compelling reasons for doing all this? >> you sure got me on that one, jean. i don't have a clue. but i think the defense is doing what defense attorneys do. and the anthonys are doing what desperate parents do.

and that's to take different slices of facts, different slices of reality, and try and shift people's understanding of it. it's like propaganda. people can put out all kinds of wild, bizarre, or a little different statements and hope someone on the jury is going to believe them. >> to leonard padilla, bounty hunter, who has been a part of this case for a long time, you know, it sure does help the prosecution to have direct evidence, but circumstantial cases can be actually even stronger than direct evidence cases. when you look at the direct evidence, though, in this case, can you find any, and what do you think is the closest to that that the prosecution will hang its hat on? >> well, i think they've got enough. i've been around hundreds of these cases that had less direct evidence than this one's got. but you have to look at it in the totality. you can't just look at one item where a lab technician messed up and want to excuse the rest of the case or get it dismissed.

it's just not going to happen that way. when those lab technicians get up on that stand, you take a fellow like todd, this is his first criminal defense case, he's never done a criminal case. that's why he makes these statements about, well, i want to get this dismissed because it's junk technology and all that. no, it's not. those lab technicians are very practiced. they're very methodical when they testify. and you don't realize that you're listening to information that is coming -- in a sense it's direct information. when they put it out on evidence. when they testify, believe me, it doesn't sound like it's forensics. it sounds like they were there and they saw it and they're testifying to that. >> you know, leonard padilla -- >> the jury's going to believe them. >> -- what you are talking about right here is an extremely important point, and it is called the weight of the evidence.

that the jury is allowed to hear all of the evidence and they themselves weigh the evidence. susan moss, your thoughts? >> absolutely. even if mark fuhrman was the fbi investigator on this case, they're still going to get a conviction. and the reason for that is the science is real. and even if you throw away some of the evidence that's been contaminated, the duct tape, et cetera, you still have the chloroform in that car belonging to casey. it's her car. she was the only one using it. you still have those computer searches. you still have the fact that these -- all these pictures of her gallivanting all around when her daughter is missing. you can't explain that away and a jury is not going to buy any explanation. >> to joey jackson, defense attorney, obviously this is your show tonight because we're talking about the defense motions and what they have. but when you look at the trunk of that car, that was casey anthony's car. she had the control of that car. she had the do main of that car. in fact, her boyfriend even described to police the last time she drove her car and just abandoned it and then it was later towed to a tow yard. how do you get over the fact she

had the compete control and authority of that vehicle? >> she did indeed, jean, but at the end of the day we don't want to base the case on duct tape and silhouettes and if the prosecution is doing that certainly they have a tough row to hoe. the reality is you ask questions about why the defense is on tv and they're stating their case. you want to even the playing field. and to the extent that they now can contaminate the jury pool in their favor by indicating look, we have this evidence out here but it's circumstantial, look at the direct evidence and what the defense is going to do, jean, they're going to say we have to base this case on direct

evidence. where is it? it's all circumstantial. why didn't she report it within 30 days? she panicked. why was she out partying? she was in denial. so they're going to attempt to explain it that way. >> to midwin charles, defense attorney, you know, i've read the motions and one thing i think the defense is really trying to do here, they want to get the death penalty out of this case. agree? >> absolutely. and i think it's one of the best things they can do. i mean, as joey said, there's no direct evidence here. so what are you going to do as a defense attorney? you're going to represent your client zealously. you're going to do what you can to ensure you throw out that death penalty case. because right now that is really the toughest thing that she's facing. >> and the lead attorney as far as death penalty in this case is andrea lyon. she comes out of illinois. she was not on any of the talk shows this morning. she's a death penalty lawyer. i'm in the middle of reading her book right now. she has never lost a case at the death penalty in regard to the jury asking for death penalty. of course, illinois is different from florida. let's go to stacy in canada. good evening, stacy. >> caller: hi. good evening. how are you? >> hi. your question? >> caller: i love your show. i'd like to know where this nanny is -- where she is and when she left the child with this lady how long has -- when did she leave the child with this lady? >> okay. good question. kathi belich, cnn affiliate

wftv. kathi, let's go back to the beginning. talk to us about this nanny. because those were the first words out of casey anthony's mouth when she spoke with investigators. >> that's right. she told them she dropped caylee off with the nanny on june 16th. it was the day after father's day. it was a monday. she said she dropped her off with a nanny at the sawgrass apartments, that her name is zenaida gonzalez. and no one -- that's a good question, where is she, who is she, because no one knows the answer to that question. and at the anthonys' attorney's news conference the other day he claims the family is now focused on puerto rico looking for this zenaida gonzalez. but it's been more than a year, and nobody can produce this woman who was allegedly casey anthony's nanny. >> and to bounty hunter leonard padilla, you were in the home for a long time. did they talk about the nanny? did they talk about zenaida gonzalez or zenaida fernandez gonzalez? >> yes, they did.

cindy came to me and said she wants to talk to you. we sat there, and cindy says here's what happened, she took the baby away from her at the jay blanchard park, her and her sister, samantha, they had the two kids and they put the child, caylee, in a silver ford focus. this is all bunk. she came up with that information on the 17th, when zenaida fernandez gonzalez was at the sawgrass apartments looking for an apartment, trying to get away from a bad marriage and she put that she only had two kids and she was driving a silver kia that looks like a ford focus. she's making it all up, and the whole family's going with it.

911. what's your emergency? >> i called a little bit ago. the deputy sheriff. i found out my granddaughter has been taken. she has been missing for a month. i felt rotten, whatever it was. something decomposing in there. >> the trunk was open, the windows were rolled down to what i assume ventilate the horrible smell. whatever it was, it was very potent. >> the smell that i smelled inside that car was the smell of decomposition. >> there's no evidence that casey has ever done any harm to her child. she lived with me for three years. i've never seen anything. >> i got a sick feeling for a

second because the car that was all closed up, and from me to you away from it, and you could smell an odor. you don't forget that odor, no matter what it is. you never, ever forget it. >> caylee is not dead. >> in my gut she's still okay, and it still feels like she is close to home. >> i'm jean casarez of the legal network "in session" in for nancy grace tonight. very, very big news for the casey anthony case. the defense is saying based on the release of the latest documents there is not direct evidence linking casey anthony to the murder of her daughter caylee, the forensics just aren't there, therefore, the case should be dismissed. this is going to be part of a very big hearing in the short term. to kathi belich with cnn affiliate wftv in orlando, florida. you have been on this case. you are there in orlando. we have no indication that forensic evidence testing has

concluded, right? i mean, this is a huge case with many pieces of evidence. there may still not be things that the prosecutors know that we don't know. >> there might be a lot of those things. a good example is the photographs of the duct tape that was stretched across caylee's mouth. the defense has had that since march. we still haven't gotten it ourselves. and for all we know testing is still ongoing in this case. this is a very complicated case. you see how all of those fbi agents who were working that duct tape were tested for dna just to find out whose hair that was they had found, or whatever the dna was on that -- on that duct tape. i mean, this is just a very complicated case, and there might still be things that even the investigators don't know yet. >> it truly is. the thousands of documents that we already have. to natisha lance, nancy grace producer. i want to focus on this duct tape again. and brad conway has come out -- i don't believe the discovery is in the hands of the public yet, but he is saying that the fabric of the duct tape found on the remains of caylee does not match any duct tape on any gas can or anything that is in the possession of the anthony family. but here's my question. shouldn't prosecutors and

investigators be looking for where you could buy it and if it has a very small -- or if it could be purchased on the internet, if there are any computer records that show a purchase of something like that, right? >> that's right, jean. and actually, that is what prosecutors did. they did exactly that thing. and what they were able to find out from the henkel company is that 134,000 rolls were sold in 2006 and 2007. now, that brand is a rare brand. it's called fireguard duck. there's not very many that are sold. it's about less than 1% of all the duct tape sales that happened from about 2002 through 2007 constitute this duct tape brand. and also, jean, the odds of having these two pieces of duct tape randomly in the same area, the odds are about 250,000 to 1. so prosecutors are using this. this is something that they probably are going to bring up during their case.

and those are pretty high odds. >> and there's the logo right there. the henkel logo right there. and the question i have, and you probably don't know the answer. i don't think anyone does. but it's so rare. can it be purchased in orlando? if so, where? if so, how close is that to the home? if so, was anyone from the family or casey anthony ever in that store? i mean, those are questions we still have in this case that we don't know the answers to. joy in tennessee. thanks for hanging on, joy. good evening. >> caller: hi. how are you? >> i'm fine. what's your question? >> caller: actually, i had a two-part question. first of all, casey, they explain it as ugly coping, the 31 days that caylee was missing she's supposedly looking for her. >> okay. >> caller: and she blames it on, you know, zenaida. so that proves zenaida is not -- so there she's caught in a lie. and also, her mother says i think she's protecting us, protecting the family. okay.

well, caylee's already passed away. her mother and father are out on their own. she's in jail. who's she protecting them from? >> okay. in other words, who is protecting caylee right now i think is your question. the victim in all this. let's go out to leonard padilla. the first question was that casey anthony said in the 31 days she didn't report her daughter missing, she was looking for her. did you hear any conversation about that in the home? >> you know, when we were in the home we never, ever discussed let's go out and look for her, let's go see where she's at, let's go do anything. no. but i will tell you this. in hindsight i'm going to tell you the whole family is delusional. they follow cindy's lead. she makes up a lie, and the next thing is everybody's following it. and the reason they don't bring kronk into the middle of this whole thing is because they are afraid what they might have to reveal as what was overheard by kronk, what kronk knows, how he got his information where the

body was, and jose baez, himself, is concerned about that. he cannot say, well, this is what happened. casey told me the body was at such and such a place and somehow kronk got that information because it was overheard by somebody in the jail. so -- >> patricia saunders -- they're all delusional. >> all right. got your point. thank you. patricia saunders, we've got just a few seconds. but everyone is protecting casey anthony. who's protecting caylee tonight? >> the prosecution is protecting her. >> all right. and tonight we now have "cnn heroes." >> this is "cnn heroes." >> hello. i'm john legend. during last year's "cnn heroes: an all-star tribute" i had the honor of performing and helping to recognize the great works of everyday citizens changing the world. as founder of the show me campaign, which seeks an end to global poverty, i am thrilled to be able to help cnn introduce one of this year's top ten honorees. now more than ever, the world

needs heroes. >> approximately 1 billion people lack access to clean water. it's killing more children than aids and malaria combined and yet all that can be prevented. regulars, especially. sit on the same stool and pay the same tab every day. they wanted to be a part of something. >> my name is dock henry and i used to be a bartender and i provide clean water to people in need. seeing these people living in conflict and the biggest concern was the huge loss of life because of the unclean water. that's when water changed the burden. whether we are filtering water or pumping a well, we want to chain the people on the ground. enabling them to fix their own water. the joy is the only thing that helps with the burden. you can be anybody and you really, really can change the

world. i'm walking truth of that. >> are now a look back at the

>> are now a look back at the stories making headlines this week. >> when did you last see her? >> she was sleeping. >> tell us the truth. >> he is gone. she left town. >> misty croslin has been found. >> she was on a trip to the amusement park. she was at universal studios with a friend. >> she doesn't want to speak with police. >> i have nothing to do with it. if i knew request where she was, we wouldn't be sitting here. >> 30 years hiding out in luxury

in europe, a hollywood superstar finally behind bars. >> there is a disturbing yet growing defense of home an polanski. martin scorcese. >> shame, shame, shame on them! >> i heard a loud beating at the door. please help me. >> searching for this missing newborn from tennessee. >> the suspect, a woman. knocked on the door and the mother, maria, answered the door. >> the woman began to hit her and pulled out a knife and began to stab her. >> she was covered from blood from her head to her toes. >> if you said her remains one more time i will walk out the door. how dare you say that about my granddaughter. >> high tech testing reveals the outline of a child curled up in the fetal position discovered in tot mom's car.

>> it was in the trunk of my daughter's car. i opened up the trunk and instantly that gets in your house just like that. >> tonight let us stop to remember marine staff sergeant daniel hansen, 24 years old from tracy, california. from a family of military vets who also served in afghanistan. as a presidential guard at camp david, he was awarded the purple heart. he loved sports and mixed martial arts and writing short stories. he leaves his parents, dell bert and cheryl, two sister, one serving in the army. twin brother and best friend matthew who is serving in the marines and fiance, emily. daniel hansen, an american hero. thank you so much to all of our guests and to you at home for being with us. see you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp eastern. good night, everybody.

i'm aj hammer in new york. here's some of what we are covering for friday night at the top of the hour. the david letterman sex extortion shocker. new late breaking developments today after letterman's incredible on air confession that he had sex with women who worked for him. could letterman get fired over this? a brand-new star war over roman polanski. kirstie alley's rant against him. chris rock comparing roman to o.j. simpson. the roman star outrage. today's brand-new jon and kate bombshell. the fallout after job gosselin goes on "larry king live" and opens up about everything. the woman who got so mad at her husband, she fried his pet goldfish and it too. nice. >> at the top of the hour here

on hln.