tonight, bette midler, kathy griffin and vanessa williams. i've got more stars in here than the betty ford clinic. all that and more from the time warner center in new york, tonight. you never know what my guest is going to say or say about you behind your back. her comedy is brash, outspoken and takes no prisoners. in fact, i am wearing body armor right now. please help me welcome to my table, kathy griffin. >> i love that intro and here's why. i love that you pointed out that i talk about people behind their backs.

>> yes. >> and here's why. i think it's interesting when people want me to confront these celebrities, and the truth is i was raised right. i talk about people behind their backs, and i wait until you leave the room. >> yes. >> so when people say that on reality shows. if you have something to say, say it to my face. i would rather wait until you leave the room. i can be funnier and it's more freeing. >> sometimes you get into trouble. you have things that i have down here. you said suck it, jesus. >> when i won my first emmy. >> why were you interested in just offending every christian in the world? >> i like to offend religious groups probably more than individuals. i like to offend individuals, don't get me wrong, but i find that deities and religious groups are the most fun because they have the worst sense of humor. when i told jesus to suck it, which was me doing a spoof of -- all these celebrities that get up there and do it. miley just did it after dancing on the pole.

>> it's not pretty. >> i said jesus had nothing to do with this award. suck it, jesus. this award is my god now. and then an angry christian group took out a huge ad against me in "usa today" and spent more money than bravo ever would advertising my life on the d-list. it was great publicity for me. >> do you get death threats? >> yes, i've had death threats. >> how do you handle that because that's a little scary. >> i kind of just laugh at all of it. >> you do? >> that's probably why i'm not a security expert. i wouldn't be a good homeland security person because i'd just say, oh, just laugh at those jihadists. they're a riot. >> i have one name for you. salmon rushdie. >> he was on "my life" on the d list. i got tips from him. >> how to deal with a fatwah. i have a hollywood fatwah. >> regis, for example you haven't been invited back.

>> you're the one that called that. it's in my book. did you know you're in my book. >> i heard about that. i skipped that section. >> my book has an index where you can actually look yourself up and you can see what page you are on there by having to not read the whole book at all. what happened was i was on "the view" one time in the makeup room and you said to me out of the blue, have you been on regis lately and i said no. and i said know, and you said on regis live that gelman was regis' [ bleep ]? and then i said i haven't been on the show. and then you were laughing. you said, i'll bet that's why. in fact, i have not been on "regis and kelly lee -- let's go with regis and kelly lee because that's how long it's been on the show that i believe i have a fatwa from gelman. i didn't know gelman can put a

fatwa on someone's head. >> he doesn't want to be known as regis' [ bleep ]. maybe some people don't have the same sense of humor. >> you don't think that regis beats gellman ever? >> abuses him verbally. regis is the boss. when you do get into trouble like that, you will not apologize? >> i will not apologize for jokes. i will apologize if i stepped on your toe. >> you mean literally or figuratively? >> i have apologized for many, many things. but saying suck it jesus at the creative arts emmys is so clearly a joke or starting a rumor that dakota fanning is going to rehab at 9 years old is clearly a joke. if i had said it about lindsay lohan, i could see people that weren't sure about me. but to say it about 9-year-old dakota fanning is definitely a joke. >> what about the fact that david letterman apologized to sarah palin for the bristol joke? >> in my book, i talked about being banned from letterman. as i was writing the book, my 12-year ban was lifted. >> why?

>> i got to go back on. >> why were you banned from letterman? >> i think because i swore too much. they never want to say you are banned. they just want to keep not booking you. year after year. after winning emmys and after going to iraq and after doing this and then just sort of -- they can't find a spot for me, but they can have spencer from heidi and spencer, they can find a spot for him. then on letterman, i was a fallout. when you are on the d-list, that is what you do. the show has booked a real star. then they get a head cold. paula abdul and they call me and i rush and fill in. that is how i got to go back on letterman. >> what does this mean "head cold," when you do it like that? what do you really want to say? >> i would say that paula abdul appears to be under the influence of really enjoying life. >> she says she has pain medication or something simple like that. >> if she is saying she has pain medication, i am agreeing with her.

>> i loved her on "american idol." i thought she was good on that show. >> i think it's a big mistake not to hire her back. considering what they pay those boys, and in the book, i talk a lot about sexanism hollywood and you obviously know that game. i'm sorry, but i think it's appalling that seacrest makes $45 million and paula made 3. obviously, $3 million is an amazing living. so she gets one-tenth of what the guys get, a 12th? >> he was getting $45 million for various jobs. >> still, she's a big reason people watch that show. she definitely was one of the reasons i watched it. >> me, too. you needed somebody nice and somebody who would come on to the kids. it was great. now, you talk about sexism in hollywood. >> yeah. >> why in hollywood? it's all over the place. >> in standup comedy -- i can't believe how bad it still is. when i was a kid and joan rivers took over "the tonight show," i thought this is it. it's going to be 50/50. and that there isn't a female in

network late night to this day -- in fact, that there was one, joan rivers, and then never again is mind blowing to me. >> after she had her own show and didn't tell johnny carson she was getting her own show, the patriarch was upset. she was banned from those shows also. she was only recently invited back over the last 20 years. so she was banned also. is that a female thing? >> yes. >> only women? >> as far as having those shows, i believe it is a woman thing. even the clubs. the banning -- i don't know about the banning part. i think a lot of these guys in late night don't necessarily know what to do with the woman. if you are not the hot chick, i'm not sure they quite know what to do with you. if you aren't the starlet coming on saying our tv show is like a family. one time we played a joke where we switched cola for coffee. it was awful. >> they love that. >> they love that. >> with a woman comedian, it is too much power. we have the mike, funny, not easy to deal with it. >> there is the whole thing, people generally think chicks

aren't funny. when i do my shows, like you, i perform for a lot of gay guys, a lot of women. i can't tell you how many guys come up to me and said my wife dragged me here. i didn't really want to come, but you are really funny. >> do you think there is less sexism among women? is there camaraderie amongst the women? >> sometimes yes, sometimes no. there are a few of us vying for a few jobs. let's face it, we are all fighting for a handful of jobs. so, sometimes girl-on-girl crime can be the worst. i think ultimately, luckily i have been lucky enough to have a lot of girls help me along the way. when i first started out, the first week i did standup, which was in a coffee house, janine garofalo and margaret cho was there. >> they're feminists, the two of them. they are going to be helpful for you. >> they were very helpful. but i love all the gals. i love chelsea handler, sandra bernhardt. >> what about ellen degeneres? >> i love her. >> you were nasty in the book against her. >> i tell her a story that was my experience when i was on her show. >> what happened to you?

>> i think she ruled that set with an iron fist in a way that was a little -- it took me back a little bit. >> if she were a man, you wouldn't be saying that. you would say she was very strong and tough. >> what she did -- i sort of felt like she had me perform like a circus monkey, which normally i'm happy to do. i do have little cymbals attached to my fingers at times. i am a big admirer of her and all she has accomplished. i think i am currently banned from her show. i haven't been on in like three years. >> you do just fine. you are not on the d-list. you are an a-list person and to be on the d-list person sounds wrong. >> i think you are just saying that because you have to because i'm sitting across from you. >> you have a huge gay following. >> thank god for gays. >> what do you think that is about? >> kind of like you. i just get along with gay guys. i didn't really have to put any effort into it. i just feel like a gay guy on the inside. >> i remember in the early days,

the gay audience was easier to deal with. they were downtown, below 14th street. >> it was geography for you. >> when i went up town, it became more hetero and you had to deal with guys -- straight guys. >> i call them the unshockable gays. they are already in a minority that has to struggle and already feel like being on the outside looking in. and that is what the d list is. that is why i do well with gay audiences. and the kind of standup i do, what can i say to a gay person they haven't heard? i don't get a lot of gasps, unless i say i go to cher's house. >> then they get excited. but they once said to me, they don't admire you. they want to be you. what does that mean? >> and vice versa a lot of gay guys i love to be, my life would be easier if i was a hot gay guy. >> who do you think has a bigger base, you, cher or larry craig? >> larry craig, more of a niche crowd but they are very passionate. >> okay. when we come back, we are going to have more with -- with kathy

griffin. kathy griffin. >> you don't even know my name. >> i do. >> hi, i'm kathy griffin and i'm going to be on christiane -- i'm on "the joy behar show" live from baghdad. we will be at a desk. a lot of ieds. we are going to gossip and talk some smack about celebritities.

we are back with the very funny kathy griffin. i do remember your name. so, a lot of things in your book are serious? >> this book hits you with a few serious topics you didn't expect. >> i did not expect to find out that your brother was a pedophile. what do you mean? >> here is the deal. i am writing a memoir. i think if people are going put down their hard-earned money, they should get something they don't get in the d-list or if they come see me live. i had to write about the serious stuff. part of me wanted to make it a

humor book. the type of books that i like are honest and forthright. barbara walters' audition was one of them and joan rivers and paula dean's first book and those are the type of books i like to read. so i had to talk about my eldest brother, kenny, who has now passed away. he was a pedophile. >> how did he die? >> actually, so awful. he was homeless and he was a crack addict and lived on the streets for years and he actually died in my mom's arms. >> sad. >> very, very sad. lived to be, i think, 60 years old. >> when you say he was a pedophile, did he molest children? >> yeah. >> he did? >> that is what a pedophile did. >> you don't say that exactly in your book. >> that is what i mean. it is a serious thing. >> you say he got into bed with you when you were a little girl. >> here is the deal. it started when i was a little

kid, like under 10 years old. and this guy was 20 years older than i. and he would get into bed with me and whisper sweet nothings in my ear. >> did he touch you? >> no, not that i recall. if you walked into a bedroom, saw 7-year-old kid and there was a guy 20 years older than her, cuddling her and whispering sweet nothings in her career -- >> creepy. >> exactly. >> i don't know that he molested you. >> i never used that word for me. i always say sexually inappropriate. i have talked to various experts. one thing they have talked to me a lot about is the denial that often comes along with the crime. also remember, i'm 48. we're talking 40 years ago. we almost didn't have the word pedophile then. >> that was before oprah and phil. >> exactly. so later on in two of his long-term relationships, both of those women separately told me about him molesting kids.

then many years later, i became estranged from him and it was a divisive thing. my dad said why are you completely estranged from kenny, and i said i believe he is a pedophile. my dad finally confronted him and said kathleen thinks you are a pedophile and my dad's response was -- my brother's response to my dad was, i do what i do. >> oh. so he admitted it pretty much. >> look, if someone accused me of being a pedophile, my answer would not be i do what i do. so, it's a very sort of amorphous thing. a crime to me often that doesn't have the witnesses come forward. i called the lapd on him one time and tried to get them to investigate. they told me that they couldn't because they needed the kids to come forward. and i had the address of the apartment that he was managing. i tried to get them to go ask. it is a big thing to deal with and it had a big influence on me. >> scarring. i think it scars you. without really getting to the

point of it. you don't really know what it is. >> it is all about secrets. my act is all about, you know, blurting out everything and no secrets and sort of revealing everything. so when i wrote this book, i couldn't really write a book without writing about him, although it was the most difficult part, for sure. >> did you tell your mother? >> yeah. >> when you were little? >> yeah. >> what did your mother say? >> they didn't really know quite what it was, couldn't put it together. it is a very tough thing. it is like the priest scandal. >> i had a gay priest cousin who died of aids. >> gay doesn't mean pedophile, as we know. >> he also moved parish to parish to parish. >> so he was a -- a cousin. so there is something in your family. >> i don't know. i have always wondered. that is a big part of the book. i am not a big secret keeper. i don't think secrets ever work. they just fester. >> it is not like you to not really talk about things. it's good that you did. let's talk about your husband for a minute. i have met your husband. seemed like a nice guy. you were happily married.

he was in the car with you on "the d-list." what happened? >> i was actually quite happily married. there is a part and then i think that there was some, you know, financial improprieties that happened. >> he stole money from you? >> $72,000. >> what did he do with it? >> to this day, i don't know. >> did he buy a car? >> to this day, i don't know. >> how did you find out? >> my accountant called. my accountant called. >> did you confront him? >> yes. >> w wt happened then? >> at first, he denied it and then he said it was me. i said they tell me the bank has the tape of someone taking my atm card and going up and i said if there is a tape, you might as well tell me before someone at my accountant's office sees it. it is heavy. >> so are you divorced or separated? >> totally divorced. >> do you have to pay him alimony? california is so crazy about that. >> can i tell you, honestly it was not about the money. the first person i talked to -- not the first person but on tv, i talked to larry king about it.

he was talking about the money and the dollar amount. honestly it really is about the trust. >> of course. >> i started to question everything and do i really know him. did i ever know him? why did he lie about this? you know, this happened over a period of about two years. >> yeah. >> going into my wallet when i was asleep, taking my two atm cards, withdrawing $1,500 and putting the cards back in the wallet before i woke up in the morning. >> it's a betrayal. >> yes. >> and it's bizarre and i couldn't figure it out. i don't know why he needed it, what he needed it for. he never showed up with a rolex watch. >> so you off marriage forever? >> i am kind of off marriage. >> and there are single guys that are available. ryan o'neal. are you interested in him? >> i think that would be very healthy. or lana stewart. >> you could turn into a lesbian, that type of affair with your husband. if someone goes into my bank account, i am down with the girls. >> i'm cathy ormon. >> we will be right back with the real kathy griffin, or will we? find out what i mean when we

return.

earlier this week, i had a chance to talk to bette midler who made history as johnny carson's last guest. ♪ long road >> one of great moments in television. now she is my first guest. here is hoping the magic continues. bette midler, thank you, honey, for coming on this show. it sort of tears us up when we see that, doesn't it? >> maybe you.

for me, i am all smiles. once in a while, i get misty-eyed. he was a wonderful guy. he did so much for me. so much for so many people that i know. >> not me. i never got on his show. >> that's too damn bad. maybe you didn't deserve to get on -- >> who cares. i am sorry he is dead and everything. >> here you have a show of your own. congratulations. >> let's not talk about him. >> he was a great guy. you will have a great run. >> i hope so. i am glad that you are my first guest and you were his last. one more question about him. do you think he ever wanted to leave? >> i think some people really want to and some people don't. everyone's different. i think there are some people working in television who will have to be carried out feet first. >> no names. >> no names. and other people who have had enough. it is hard work. when you look around, if our curious person, you say it is a lot the same. i have been doing this for a long time and every day is pretty much the same.

those kinds of people usually say i have had enough. >> what would you do if you were not in vegas? >> we were not talking about me. i am not retiring and you can't make me. >> will you never retire ever? >> i would never say never. but if i were going to retire, i would not announce it. i would just back up into the wings and walk away. i wouldn't say -- why would you say i'm going to retire? why would you announce it? then if you change your mind? >> like cher. she always has a comeback tour. >> god bless her. >> let's talk politics. i know you stumped for obama. >> i did. >> was that the first time you stumped for a president? >> no, i stumped for a lot of democrats, since the late '70s. >> they have been calling him a lot of bad names, from a fascist to a socialist, which is really stupid because they are opposites, really. what do you think about that? >> i think it is a new low in political discourse and it is very distressing.

people of good will are very distressed by it because it is so ugly and whacky. >> what should people of good will do? >> people of goodwill should talk rationally and politely in a civil tone. and people should be willing to listen to the other side and people you are speaking to should be willing to listen to your side. that seems to be gone. >> we are trying to do that. someone like glenn beck has made gazillions of dollars because he's out there being hateful in many ways. he calls himself a clown and a comedian. do you think he is funny? >> i don't think he is funny even a little bit. i have never had a laugh from glenn beck. in fact, i find him terrifying. he is like an old-school demagogue and that is frightening. if you look at the rest of the world and what this behavior has done in rwanda where the demagogues got on the radio and

fermented all the hate it is terrifying. you could turn on a dime. it could happen here. >> we have free speech here. everything he says we can -- >> i don't think hate speech should be so free. i am not for censorship, but i also feel like be a human being. >> but you can't stop people from hate speech, because they have the right to say it. it's the first amendment. >> i think that people who are educated to be civil are civil. that's all there is to it. people who are not educated are just on the barbaric side, what can you do? that's the fault of the education system, i think, the way they are brought up. >> it's in a lot of trouble. the education system. speaking of that, what do you think of sarah palin? >> i think she is an interesting character on the american scene. >> do you identify with her? americans do. >> i don't identify with sarah palin. >> she hunts and fishes. >> i don't think she hunts and

fishes according to levi johnson. she doesn't hunt or fish or has never picked up a fishing rod or cooked. >> do you believe him? >> you know what, that article was so fascinating because it -- the sound of it, the voice in the article seemed so legitimate that i kind of sort of thought it could go either way. >> so you believe him, the little twerp over him. >> those people laughing are alcoholics anonymous are here. >> i don't know many journalists. i know one or two of them. i don't know how they do what they do. i don't know how they do what they do. i don't know how they manage to elicit all of that information from someone like levi johnson. >> you don't know if he is telling the truth. there's no way to know. >> do you know if anyone is telling the truth any time ever? we used to have these avuncular guys, these father figures. walter cronkite, he's telling it like it is. where's walter? >> he died a few weeks ago. >> i know that.

that's what i mean. >> two dead people in this one conversation so far. >> and we could go on. this was a very bad year. >> i want to change the subject. >> and i am dying right now. >> no, you're not. you and i are constantly being -- they think i'm you and they think you're me. >> separated at birth. let's just look at the camera together for a second. can you get -- >> look. do we look alike? >> i have a look on my face like why are you pointing that camera at me. and you are like, hey, here i am. >> i look like someone is pointing something behind me. >> in this, we have had photographs taken where we do look very much alike, especially when i had red hair. i haven't had red hair for 30 years. >> i was on a cruise before i had "the view." i was on the cruise, i performed and walked around the boat and i talked to people and then i overheard someone say, "how could they afford bette midler?" that was at the end of the cruise. >> that's hilarious.

>> true story. >> i was in paris. i went to paris on a little holiday not so long ago. >> did you see roman polanski. >> i was in the louvre looking for the loo. i got to the loo in the louvre. and a lady said you look just like bette midler and i said thanks. and she said i bet you wish you had her money. >> that's a good story. you know, your act has been -- i love your work. i saw you in vegas. i saw you in theaters in new york and the old days when you were first starting with barry manilow. all those great years. and i have all your albums. i am gushing now over you. >> thank you. >> but you are not really blue. >> i work blue. >> i don't think that is blue. i would say you are baudy. >> you have to tell the audience at home what blue means. >> blue means that you are swearing. you might drop the f-bomb. in other words, that george

carlin said not to use. but you can do it in a concert. >> yes, and i do. i sometimes feel like i am working a little blue for my crowd. >> they love it. >> my husband says they pay to hear you swear. at first, i was like offended and then i was like, yeah, i think he is right. >> tell us what the hoolaween party is for? >> it's for my organization i founded about 14 years ago. it's called new york restoration project. we clean parks in underserved neighbors. we are owner, designers and caretakers of 55 community gardens. we teach children environmental education. >> very good. >> we teach rowing programs. we teach, teach, teach. >> you are very good. do you have ocd? >> you know what? i think i do. >> what do you have that causes you to want to clean up new york? which is a really great thing. >> i think it is a compulsion. i think it is a compulsion. i can't help it, i was brought up in the most beautiful spot in the world. >> hawaii. >> hawaii. hawaii. when i came to the continental united states, i said why are

the clouds brown? >> that was california. >> right. that was california. why is there garbage on the street? i couldn't understand that. it really disturbed me. that was my mission. i got on that path and never left. i never thought i would still be picking up garbage so many years after i stopped dating it. >> that's a good line. >> thank you. >> how do you like vegas? you love it? >> i like it. i have gotten to know the town, vegas, a little bit. i have friends there and relationships. >> you have friends there who are normal people? >> there are a lot of normal people there. they aren't all in the poker business. i learned poker. i can't play blackjack. i learned poker. i have any little thing that i carry with me all the time. >> how does your husband like it there? >> he doesn't mind it at all. it is glittery and glamorous. >> he is a performer, too, isn't he? >> he is. >> i saw him at your birthday party. he did a little performance art. >> he is extremely charming.

he is brilliant. >> so you are going to keep him? >> 25 years. yeah. he loves all of this and he has seen the show 40 or 50 times and he cries and laughs every single time. >> oh, my god. he is a keeper. he is really nuts. >> yeah. >> you should keep him, though. >> i got him. >> okay, bette, i am so happy that you came to see me. >> is this it? are we over? do i have to go? >> we had such a good time. this was my wonderful show. all my friends here tonight. >> i want to say that hoolaween is on october 30th this year. buy a table. it's at the waldorf astoria. be there or be square. crosby, stills and nash will be there. and i will probably serve chicken pot pie. >> and you usually sing. >> i always sing. and we are honoring the mayor. >> mayor bloomberg? >> yes. >> okay, thanks, honey. that was bette midler, one of the best. back with another great star, vanessa williams, in just a minute.

you know, not for nothing, but my show has been on the air for two minutes and already i have been called every name in the book. stupid, push edumb, a loud mouth and a marxist. i take exception. i am not a marxist. i own property. okay. it's in foreclosure, but still.

this name calling doesn't bother me. you think it bothers me? bill o'reilly once called me a pinhead. yeah, he is mature. and a christian columnist named eric rush actually called me a fatty bumbladdy. which version of the bible does he read? king james or dr. suess. let me say something to these nattering, negative naybombs. i am a mature woman capable of intelligent discourse. i love to engage in cogent debate and partake in well-informed conversation. i relish the thought of sitting down with all of my adversaries. glenn, rush, bill, i invite all of you to come on the show to discuss things like rational adults, even if you are a big bunch of doody heads, but that's just me.

my next guest made headlines when she became the first black miss america 26 years ago. wow, that was a long time ago. seems like yesterday. today, she continues her multifaceted career as a world famous actress and singer. she just released her latest album "the real thing," and she's been nominated for an emmy three times for her role on "ugly betty." let's look at that. >> am i smiling? i can't tell. >> i think you are. >> oh, willie. so good to be back and have health insurance again. i have this weird mole thing. daniel still runs mode and

alexis still runs me. what is our next move? >> to divide the house of meade. >> please welcome the beautiful and talented, vanessa williams. >> am i smiling? i can't tell. >> you're smiling. >> kathy griffin and i were talking about plastic surgery and things and she says basically you can't get along in hollywood without some kind of plastic surgery and it's not just people who are older. it's young people getting stuff. what do you think? >> there is a pressure to stay young and stay in the game. i was lucky enough, when i was 40, i wanted to maintain the way i looked. i didn't want to look like anybody else. >> why would you want to look like somebody else? i would rather look like you if i were you. >> thank you. so that is when i first par took in botox. >> oh, the botox. we love the botox. >> and it's easy and it's a needle and you are in and out in less than 20 minutes. if you didn't like it you don't have to do it if you do like it you get it done every four months or so.

it's wonderful. i'm also playing willhamina slater. i'm vocal about using botox as a character. and the maker of botox have teamed up and asked me to be the spokesperson, a joint venture. we're doing these events across the country talking about the effects and the safety and but also giving back. we have given $250,000 to dress for success. >> that is good charity. >> so it's a great combination. >> yes. the thing is you'll say that you have it? >> why lie? >> everybody lies. a lot of people -- you think that actresses are not lying? >> i guess that's what we get paid to do. lie for a living. >> if you ask -- if i directly ask some of them on my show or on my other show "the view," they will say, no, right to my face. they lie through their caps.

>> it's crazy. >> i mean that also, it doesn't apply to men as much. >> there is -- but the amount of botox going on there are almost a million men doing it on a nearly basis. it's also an issue but also something men want to do. why not? you're not cutting. it's not permanent. >> botox is not cutting. they're shots but people getting chin implants, getting boob jobs, which i don't really get. >> if you've nursed four kids you get the boob job thing. >> is it normal to trip over your [ bleep ] on the treadmill? just asking. >> so how old did you say you are? >> 46. >> you don't mind saying that? >> they can google it in a second. again, why lie? >> i started lying about my daughter's age. are you not scared of getting older? >> do i like getting older? >> no one likes it. let's be real. no one likes it. >> yeah, i am a little -- as the body gets bigger and, you know, what -- your normal routine

doesn't work. that's when you start getting to panic. your normal routine, all of a sudden, you are still getting flabby. you are still gaining the weight. that makes me nuts. >> must be hard for someone like you, i think, because you are still beautiful, but you were really a gorgeous, gorgeous woman, miss america. >> well, you know. come on, that's pretty pretty. >> yeah, but -- >> that's pretty damn pretty. >> well, i think the pressure was that i never felt any pressure. i mean, i didn't grow up being, you're our princess. you are gorgeous. i was never in pageants before that. i was a junior at syracuse university. i won the whole thing within six months. so i have no idea what was going on. i didn't have that pressure of i got to keep an image up. i was just a college kid. so, i don't really feel the pressure, when you see yourself on screen that is like when it is that five pounds i can't lose, what is going on here? got to do something about that. >> it is ugly. let's change the subject now. you were the first black miss america. >> 1983.

>> at that time, you were breaking new ground. that was a new thing in those days. have we seen it since? >> oh, yeah, there's been a bunch. >> how many times? >> i don't follow it >> i don't know. i don't follow it either. i know there's been at least three or four for sure. if not more. >> do you think that, you know, barack obama's having -- catching a lot of flak from the right wing. >> no one else better to be the first. i mean -- >> he's brilliant. >> he's brilliant. what he's had to face already and it's not even a year yet? not even, you know, going into his sixth month of people shouting in his face. >> and calling him names. >> calling him names. calling him a fascist. >> and a communist, which is the opposite really. >> and likening him to hitler. it's amazing how passionate and also how very scary for an american to see how divisive it has become. he is the man to do it because he's graceful, he's articulate, he's just -- he's got great class and he's got courage. >> i always say that he would have never been elected if he didn't have everything he

needed. it was like, guess who's coming to dinner where sidney poitier had everything you could want in a man and that was the only way he could be accepted as a black guy marrying a white girl at that time. it's true in this case, too. >> absolutely. >> more with vanessa williams in a minute.           

tonight, a 5-year-old florida girl tucked into bed. five hours later she's gone. vanished. the back door propped wide open. daddy comes home from the nightshift to find not a trace of little haleigh. police say the last person to see haleigh alive refuses to give straight answers about the night the child goes missing. unable to account for crucial hours, surrounding the alleged kidnap. in a stunning twist, the brother of girlfriend turned stem mom, misty croslin, confesses he goes to haleigh's house the night she goes missing. pounds on the door repeatedly. nobody home. croslin's own mother and father also publicly state they doubt

her story. as girlfriend turned stepmother misty croslin flunks another polygraph, where is little haleigh?

>> how are you doing right now? >> i just want her to come home. just want to find her. >> i know you're 17. i can't imagine at my age going through this. >> it's horrible. it's very horrible. very. >> i know at first it seems like there's been a lot of people that have been kind of like, i don't understand how this could be the situation. where you don't hear her.

did you hear anything? >> i didn't hear anything at all. nothing. if i heard something i would have got up and i wouldn't have let them take her. >> so what happened? >> okay. i put her to bed about, you know, 8:00 because that's her bedtime. she had school. i put her to bed. her blanket and my blanket, her blanket was in the what they took. her blanket -- she peed on her blanket the night before i guess and i was going to put it on there. it smelled like pee. i washed the blanket and gave her a sheet to cover up. she fell asleep. i put a blanket on her. then i laid down and it was about, i mean, i'm not positive what time. it was like, 3:00 -- i seen 3:00. 3:00 in the morning, i got up because i had to use the bathroom. i didn't make it to the bathroom. i seen the kitchen light on. i walked in the kitchen and the back door was wide open. i didn't notice about haleigh until i seen the back door open then i go in the room and she's gone.

that's all i know. is when i woke up, when i went to sleep she was there. then when i woke up she was gone. >> i know you've been intensively questioned by police. what has that been like for you? >> it's been hard, but i'm trying to do everything to find her. you know? answer any questions i have to because i know i didn't do anything with -- to that little girl. i would never hurt her. i mean, they love me. they love me. they look at me like their mom, you know? you ask little junior, he'll tell you. you know, they talk lovely about me. i'm so good to them kids. real good. >> so you woke up and that was it? you saw the door open? did you leave the light on? >> no. >> somebody turned the light on? >> the lights had to get turned on. i know them lights. i was in the hallway where the back door is. the dryers are right there. i was washing clothes. that back door was shut. you know, and i just wake up and it's open. >> did you take a polygraph?

>> i did. but i'm not supposed to talk about that. they told me not to talk about that. >> but you did? >> yes, i did take a polygraph. >> you passed it? >> i mean, my understanding is i passed it, you know? >> what do you want people to know? >> i just want everybody to know that i didn't do anything with that little girl. i love her like she's my own, and i'll do anything to get her back and if people think that i had something to do with it, if i had something to do with it, i knew where she was, we wouldn't be sitting here today. we would have her. and i don't know where she is. >> she's a sweet baby, i can tell. >> she is so sweet. she's a smart little girl. she's intelligent, you know? she's a real good girl. real good girl. >> what is your heart? you think of her like your daughter. >> like my daughter. >> what does your heart tell you right now? >> just tells me i need to find her, you know?

i mean, just find her. >> you believe she's still out there? >> yeah. i do believe she's still out there. someone has her. i don't want to think of the bad, you know? that runs through my mind, but i don't want to think of the bad. >> what about this worker that was at the house? >> the a/c? you know, my brother -- the a/c guy called me. my brother called me ten minutes after the a/c guy. my nephews were out there. kids were playing in the front yard. haleigh was playing with her bike, doing wheelies. having fun with my niece and nephews. the a/c guy was in the house by himself. we didn't go in the house. i didn't go in the house with him. i sat on the front porch for a little white. >> you don't suspect him? >> i mean, i don't know. i mean, they talked to him and, you know, and they said that they -- i don't know. >> why would someone want to do this? do you think there's any reason they'd want to do this to you or your boyfriend? >> i don't know. we're good people.

we don't -- we don't really have friends, you know? i really don't know a lot of people in polaca. i know a couple girls, you know? they're not my friends. they're just someone, you know, that's there, i hang out with when i need to get away. i know i shouldn't hang out with them. sometimes i just need a break and go hang out with them. i won't be no more. >> what's the deal of the brick? >> there was a brick, like a cinderblock that was holding the screen door open, and that brick -- that door, that screen door is always closed. that brick, i never seen the brick even around there. the cop said there was a whole bunch of bricks 50 feet away. i'd never seen any bricks at all. >> somebody propped up the screen door with a brick? >> yeah. >> okay. >> so bring her home. >> that's all i want to do. i just want her to come home. that's it.

i just want her to be okay and whoever has her just want them to bring her home. to save and -- >> calm down. calm down, baby. >> i just want her to come home safe and i thank everybody out there that's helping us, you know? we really, really appreciate it. that everybody's helping us, you know? just if anybody knows anything, please call us and let us know, let the detectives know, because we just want her home. that's it. >> are you a really sound sleeper? >> i mean, usually haleigh will wake up at nighttime she gets cramps in her legs and i have to rub her legs to get the cramps out of her legs to get her back to sleep. she didn't make no noise that night. i would have woke up if i heard any noise. i didn't hear anything at all. i was really exhausted that day, you know?

really exhausted. when i laid down i guess, you know, i was just out. >> did she -- there's no way she could have wandered off? >> no, she is scared of the dark. she would not go anywhere by herself. she would not go by herself. >> you think something happened and you didn't hear it? >> yeah. i just didn't hear it and i wish i did because i wouldn't have let no one take her. >> are you blaming yourself? >> i just, you know, like i feel like that, you know, i wish that they would have took me instead of her. i could have fought. you know, she's only 5. she can't really do anything and i just wish they would have took me instead of her. what do they want with a little 5-year-old? >> anything else you want to say, misty? >> i just want her home, anybody knows where she is, please bring her home safe. and that's it. i just want her home. next, exclusive with haleigh's father, ronald cummings.

knew new

as the desperate search for a 5-year-old florida girl, haleigh cummings, goes on, investigators bring haleigh's father, ronald cummings, in for intense questioning about phone calls.

calls made in the hours leading up to haleigh's disappearance. cummings trying desperately to reach new stepmother misty croslin that night, at least 20 calls. no answer. croslin's brother thrown behind bars on a gun charge. confessing to police, he goes to haleigh's house the very night she goes missing. pounds on the door, over and over, nobody home. where was new stepmother misty croslin during those crucial hours? >> i want you to go stand up there. >> it's been more than seven months since anyone has seen little haleigh cummings' bright smile or heard her laugh. and now we're getting new information from investigators about the night the 5-year-old was last seen. police now say haleigh's dad, ronald cummings, called misty croslin repeatedly while he was at work and no one answered. then according to deputies, cummings called down to her family's home just down the street looking for her and

talked with her brother. >> hank says that he answered that call from ronald, which we know was made. he says he answered it. and it was ronald saying "go check on misty." and he says that he complied with that request. and misty did not answer the door. the house was dark and quiet. >> our camera was rolling after hank croslin jr., misty's brother, was taken from his jail cell to be questioned by police. that's when deputies say croslin's brother told them, it looked like no one was home that night. >> he demonstrated to us loudly and for a few seconds, and then he waited around, you know, to presumably see if someone was going to be roused if they were sleeping or whatever. he made -- he tells us that he made a good effort to see if someone was home. >> major gary bowling says croslin's interview had nothing to do with the search of this pond. but he says the interview does cast more doubt on misty's story that she was home watching movies with the two kids.

>> what we need is for misty to come down here and tell us the truth. >> he says that's why they've released this new information. >> we know that it applies to pressure in an area where pressure needs to by applied and that's on misty. misty can relieve this pressure by telling her attorney we need to go to the sheriff's office and lay out in clear terms what i was doing from 8:00 p.m. until 3:00 a.m. >> to ronald cummings, joining us tonight. he is haleigh's father. he's joining us exclusively since this arrest. ronald, what do you make of it? >> ms. nancy, i don't know what to make of it. i just don't know what -- i don't know what to think. >> well, what is the brother-in-law telling you? what are you hearing from misty's family? >> miss nancy, we don't have much contact with the family. misty has an injunction against tommy, so we don't have any contact with them. >> to terry shoemaker the attorney for ronald cummings. do you believe he was taken into custody in order to put pressure

on him to find out what he may or may not know about haleigh's disappearance? >> well, you know like was just said, i know $50,000 is very high bond for a grand theft, you know? so i would imagine they're looking at every angle they can. and if they think that they can put a little weight on him and get him to talk about anything he might know i'm sure they're going do that. >> now, let me ask you this. back to you, ronald cummings. you say that no more communications with misty croslin's family. what is misty croslin telling you? is there any possibility that she left the home that evening and hasn't told you? >> if there is a possibility of it, i don't know anything about it. when we come back, inside the home where 5-year-old haleigh cummings vanishes into thin air. $$$$$$$$$$$$