exactly what do the democrats want to do in afghanistan? or with health care? or jobs? it seems like nintendo has better game plans. then, why do men cheat on women? is it because they're hard-wired? then, come out, come out, wherever you are. courageous kids coming you have to closet. and joining me in the studio, comedian, actor, now author david alan grier. all this and more, tonight. okay. the continuing saga of david

letterman continues. last week, he admitted he had workplace affairs and some people think it's just a problem between him and his wife. the national organization of women, they don't think so. here with me now is the president of the national organization of women, teri o'neil along with victims rights attorney gloria allred and comedian, resident male cho chauvinist -- >> what?! >> dick -- >> you said dick. >> nick. >> what action would you like to see here? >> i think the first thing cbs needs to do is look at its own board of directors and its own decision makers and have half of them are not women, half of them need to be made women, immediately. what we've got is a toxic workplace. and what seems to have been going on in the letterman show is the kind of toxic workplace for women that goes on all over

the country. so, you know, people ask me, well, why don't you just call for david letterman's head. and my answer is, that doesn't change all the workplaces around the country. what will change that is really, systemic bringing women into equality in workplaces around the country. wouldn't that be amazing? >> yes. the n.o.w. statement also says, you raised the idea of abuse of power in the statement. can you elaborate on that for a second? >> sure. this is what i'm hearing from women all over the country. you know, i was in a situation once where this guy, every time there was a new crop of employees brought in, he would choose one young woman that he was going to have sex with. well, the entire -- all of the women in that workplace were affected. it was very demoralizing, a very negative effect on the women in that workplace. that's what i'm talking about. it happens everywhere. and i think that the letterman scandal allows us to sort of open up a window on what's going on in workplaces around the

country and think for a moment about how we can fundamentally change that. >> gloria, you wrote an open letter to letterman saying, even if it was welcome, what about the impact of your sexual favoritism on other staff members with whom you did not have a sexual relationship? now, i happen to agree with you, gloria, about this. nick, i'll throw it to you for a minute. what about these other women that didn't have sexual relationships with the boss? they didn't get promoted, they're not on camera. >> first, that's overrated, being on camera. >> that's not what i hear. >> but even the ones that he showed favoritism too, what, they can't fight off his advances? they're that weak? >> no, it's not that they're weak, they like it. they want to say, yes, give me the on-air, give me the promotion. >> that's true. but i don't hear any of the other girls -- and from everything i've read in the papers, all the other interns say it's a great place for women to work.

wait until they start whining -- >> gloria, he has given promotions and a lot of the top jobs at letterman are women. how do you respond to that? >> yeah, i probably do more sexual harassment cases in my law firm than any other private law firm in the country for individuals suing employers. so i can tell you that this situation is not a good one. this is a situation where mr. letterman has admitted to having sex with more than one woman. so i think it's fair to say that sexual favoritism in his workplace is widespread. and the united states equal employment opportunity commission, joy, has said if there is widespread sexual favoritism in the workplace, that means that managers are sending a message that women are sexual playthings and that is demeaning to women. and they are sending a message that managers may be saying that in order for women to advance, they're going to have to engage in sexual conduct with the boss. that's a hostile sexual atmosphere in the workplace and

i think that the women who didn't have sex with the boss may, in fact, have the right to file a lawsuit themselves. so watch out. >> really? really? what do you say to that? >> he could esleep with all of them and rectify the situation. >> i don't think he has the strength. >> yeah, number one. but, again, i don't hear the other people -- the other girls crying that it's an unfair place to work. i agree, sexual harassment, my definition is if a boss says, male boss or female, says to an employee, you can't go any further in this company unless there's some sexual -- >> it's never that obvious. it's very subtle. it's like, you want to go have a drink? >> and the next thing, no -- >> it's okay if it's an attractive guy. >> well, you're wrong then, not him. >> nick? >> yes, gloria? >> first of all, it's an unequal power situation. don't expect the burden to be on the employee, that is, the woman worker, to have to fight off the boss. she's afraid of losing her job. she needs the economic support that she gets from working.

and so he shouldn't be engaging in sexual harassment in the first place. and by the way, even if the women did engage in sex with david letterman, that doesn't mean that it was welcome to them. just because they haven't filed any complaints, yet, or ever, doesn't mean they welcomed those sexual advances by david letterman. >> okay, and when you probe that he forced himself on these girls, i'll agree with you. >> let me just -- it's not about whether he forces himself on anybody. what it's about -- >> say no to the drink, then. >> -- is whether the women in the workplace are second-class can citizens. and when the boss says, i'm going to have serial sexual relationships with a number of female sbord informant staffers in my office, then we know that he has divided the men from the women and the women are the second-class citizens and that is the toxic workplace. and that goes on in more places -- >> let me jump in here and talk to nick for a second. let me give it to you like this. let's say you're a rising star and a lot of comics have to get

on stage, but one of the comics, a guy, is sleeping with the women who is booking the room and he's not as funny as you. but that guy's getting all the spots. how would you feel about that? >> getting the spots where? >> on stage at catch a rising star. try to follow. try to follow this analogy. >> well, first of all, that would never work at catch a rising star, because we know who ran the place, a gay guy. >> that's not the point. i just gave you that as an example. >> the comedy star in l.a. -- >> what do you say? >> life is unfair, but i don't need a representation to paint me as a victim. what's the deal? i heard you're sleeping with this un-funny person. >> here is the deal, nick. listen up. the deal is that women workers are entitled to equal employment opportunity. >> yes. >> and if they have to put up with sexual harassment on the job, that interferes with their right to equal employment opportunity and to have a workplace that is safe from sexual harassment. and please, stop calling women

girls. we're not girls, we're women. and show us that level of respect. >> and it's really outrageous to claim, oh, you're just making women victims, when women recognize that we have been treated like second-class citizens and we stand up and say so and all of a sudden that we are called victimizers, i don't think that's right. >> second-class citizens. all they did was take you out and buy you drinks and dinner for the first 30 of my life. seriously, the most spoiled people on the face of the earth. i can make that argument too. and don't tell me -- just think of david letterman as a male cougar. think of that. >> he's a little old to be a cougar. a woman is 40 years old when she's a cougar, not 62 with a 32-year-old girl. that's another story. >> all right, a billy goat. >> he's a hyena. that's what it is. a hyena, and a laughing one too. >> are you going to tell me somewhere in this country, there's not some female boss who flirts with a young, handsome --

>> it happens very rarely. let me ask you ladies another question. why are men cheating at work so much? is it because there's no other place to meet men these days? if you go to bar, it's kind of dangerous sometimes and you meet them in college, maybe, and then you meet them at work. where else are we supposed to meet men? and where are men supposed to meet women, if not at work? >> look, the question here with the letterman -- i think that the letterman case opens up the possibility of the boss having sexual relations with a series of subordinate staffers. that's very different than office romances. and i think we need to be clear about that. >> so the difference you're making is that if it's the boss and an underling, it's not good, but if it's two equals, it's okay? >> if it's the boss and a series of subordinate staffers, absolutely, what he's doing is creating an atmosphere where he's telling everybody, the women are different for the men, the women are for sex, the men are for working.

and let's face it, that's exactly the -- that's the impression that all of the workers get. >> here's an interesting factoid. the infidelity rate for men and women over 60 is up. so we can blame that on viagra, right? >> yeah. >> gloria, terry, thanks. back in just a minute with david alan grier.

voted for. and this is barack obama the day after the election. barack, what are you doing? when you said hope and change, we thought you were talking about the country, not about your wardrobe. >> from marching with martin luther king to "dancing with the stars," my next guest writes all about it in "barack like me: the chocolate covered truth." please welcome the lovely and talented david alan grier. great to see you. i saw you the other day on "the view," and here we are again. >> yes.

congratulations on your new show. >> thank you. who do you think is a better dancer, you or -- let's watch this, tom delay. ♪ we're going hopping today ♪ i kind of like to be the president ♪ >> the worst, isn't it? thank goodness he's out now. >> i'm not really watching the show, joy, but i'll tell you this -- >> yeah? you have some dish from backstage? >> no, because i was watching the ball game. that show is long. it's two, three hours long. >> you were pretty good on there, actually. >> pretty good? >> if there was a cage match, who would win? >> me and tom delay? i would just stomp on his feet. >> maybe he has the gout and he's not admitting it. >> i don't know. he's a wimp. he should have kept dancing. everybody hurts, everybody gets injured. come on. >> the hammer is just a little sissy, isn't he? >> i thought he was going to last longer. >> this book that you wrote, is

this an answer to sarah palin's memoir? >> i hope not. because i never shot a moose. i slept with a moose, but i never shot one. >> was it good for you or the moose? >> that night, it was necessary. >> you do what you have to do. >> i'm on the road. >> it's better than shooting. make love, not murder. >> wouldn't call it love, but go ahead. >> so now, in your book, divide our current history before and after barack. >> yes. >> that's very interesting notion. what exactly do you mean by that? >> well, to be serious for a moment, a lot of the book is about leading up to his election. and as an african-american man, i'm 53 years old. >> you're black? >> i am. >> oh, my god. >> i told you, i think, when we met, i was puerto rican. why? here's what it is. i think for a lot of my friends, especially a lot of my white friends, once he was elected, they were like, okay, is it over now? is it over now? >> is racism over? >> yeah.

can we stop talking about it? because i do think in this country, it's uncomfortable, this national dialogue of race and what is it, how we define it? >> so do you think white people feel guilty object racism in the country? >> some white people do. some white people do, some white people don't. do i like to instill guilt in them? only if i'm caught out there, and i have to. i mean, one of the things i say in the book, it's hard to play the race card now. and i really enjoy certain myths. i'm not going to give up the black sexual myth. i want to keep that going. >> you've got to keep certain things -- >> exactly. let me pick and choose. >> some stereotypes work for you. >> there you go. >> but the world has changed a lot since you were a kid. >> it's changed. >> and it's changed a lot more since obama has become president. >> it really has. it really has. i mean, you're saying, before and after, and like, before barack obama, i had to be like 48 years old, i'm in an suv, i happen to be wearing a ball cap, cranking some sounds. i pull up to a stoplight.

there's a white family, they look at me, they lock their doors and speed away. this really happened. and i'm like, really, i'm on television. really? but i'm like, wow, i still have it. i can still fear. after barack obama, a prius pulls up, it has obama '08, it's full of white kids, they're like, hey, what's up, man? >> that's interesting. >> a little different. >> do you think obama would not be able to get a cab in those days? >> i don't think obama would be able to get a cab today. >> today? >> from an african cab driver in new york city. >> after 4:30, they all go off-duty. >> do you think your daughters see the world different? how old are your kids? >> i only have one daughter. one child. >> what's her name? >> lulu. >> that's cute. >> she's almost 2. she'll be 2 in january. and i revel in the fact -- i mean, to her, this is going to be normal.

it's like, you know, i'm going to be the cranky old black guy going, i remember when we couldn't be president. shut up, go on, get out of here. i revel in that, that it's going to be no big deal that to be biracial, multiracial is no big deal. those are the things i enjoy. that i grew up in a world that was very black and white. there wasn't a lot of talk of, you know -- >> multicultural. >> exactly. what was your ethnic background? as a matter of fact, when people talk like that, you were suspect. especially in the black community. anytime you started going, are you black or white? well, my mother's venutian. >> from venus? >> yeah. i have part pyrenees. >> now you had some advice for president obama before he took office. let's take a look at that. >> i have a message for you, go out on top. retire right now, pull a dave

chappelle and get your ass to africa. quit while you are ahead, because it is all downhill from here. you know you've got a place to stay. >> you're funny. you know that? >> i may be right on that. >> but do you think obama, he should have taken your advice? >> no. this is it. he's got to lead. we all knew that the honeymoon would be over. >> he's taking a lot of criticism right now. >> he is. >> and jimmy carter made a statement that a lot of the criticism is racially motivated. do you think so? >> i think some of it is. you know, the guy that's carrying the sign that says "get back to kenya" or whatever -- >> africa. >> yeah, get back to africa. yes, of course. some of it is racially motivated, but i don't think we can get caught up in every criticism of obama because he's african-american is racially based. i mean, you call it as you see it. >> what did you think of when

glenn beck said that obama was a racist? doesn't that sound stupid? >> i think glenn beck is insane. >> it's so stupid. >> but i also have faith in the people. i was reading online a response to that. and someone posted, okay, so he hates half of himself, because he's half white. and he's biracial. so it doesn't really -- >> there were cartoons at that time, pictures of him as a child sitting with his blond, white mother, saying he's a racist, ironically. >> yeah. it's inflammatory conversation. i mean, i don't pay much attention to it. >> well, thanks so much for coming by. >> what happened? >> it's always a pleasure. >> nothing happened. in fact, you're coming back on friday. change the shert. >> yes. >> thanks, david. >> hi, joy. >> you're coming back for more new and interesting stuff to talk about. >> so stick around for a sneak peek at my interview, also, today, with seinfeld creator larry david, next.

we have a little peek. and then he's on tomorrow.

tomorrow night, you're in for a very special treat. one of the funniest men on the face of the planet, larry david, my old pal, will be joining me to talk about everything from the "seinfeld" reunion to his early days as a frustrated stand-up comic. those were great days. here's a sneak preview. >> i remember you from the old days of catch a rising star. and you were what you would call a temperamental comic. >> yes, temperamental. >> the comics always loved to come into the room, and they'll say, oh, larry's getting up, and everybody would look at their watch and see how long you would

last. >> they didn't know if i would have a breakdown on stage. you didn't know really what was going to happen. >> what would happen to you when you would get thereup and you didn't get the first laugh. >> i didn't. i don't react well to adversity. i'm a baby. really, almost the way that jon mcenroe used to be if he played tennis. if a call went against him, you know, and that's how i was. if something went against me -- if a person, i could be doing great, and if i saw one person start talking during the whole thing, i would go, hey, hey, you. oh, what, you don't like this? it's no good. >> and then you would walk off. >> i can't do, i'm getting out of here. >> so that stops your act. >> one time i actually -- and i said this, i've done this story before, but i went up on stage, it was catch a rising star, went up on stage and i looked at the audience and i went, i don't think so. >> just the way they looked.

>> just the way they looked. >> was enough. >> and i left. >> now, here's something you won't see tomorrow night. this is right before the interview when larry forgot to turn off his cell phone and who calls but ted danson. >> sometimes -- sometime next year, we'll talk. >> ted danson. >> ted danson? >> yeah. >> can i speak to him for a second. >> hold on, joy behar wants to speak to you. >> ted? he wants to be on the show. >> oh, good. >> ted danson, you're booked. you're booked. i've been watching you on that new show on hbo. you're very funny on that and we have other things to discuss, politics, et cetera. you know, you're more than a pretty face, ted. you're also hung like a [ bleep ]. >> no, he's not more than a pretty face and he's not even a

pretty face. >> tell him what you said. >> i said, you're not more than a pretty face, you're not even a pretty face. yeah. okay. go [ bleep ] yourself. >> every day is "curb your enthusiasm". >> don't forget, larry david, tomorrow night.

last november, americans voted for change. and we got some. first of all, we got a president who's read a book and can speak in complete sentences. but health care, the economy, and unemployment are still in trouble. not to mention the war in afghanistan, which began eight years ago today. joining me to discuss this is democratic congresswoman maxine waters. hi, maxine. >> hello, joy, how are you? >> you know, i'm a big fan of your yours. >> well, i'm a big fan of yours and congratulations on this show. >> thank you. a lot of people are upset with the president on afghanistan. they say he's taking too long to make a decision, they want more troops, and if he doesn't make a

decision soon, what's going to happen? >> well, his back is up against the wall. he made promises during his election that he was going end to the war, bring the troops home. he did say he was going to try to catch osama bin laden, so people sat still while he deployed troops to afghanistan. and now with the request for 40,000 more, people are saying, wait just a minute, this is too much. we have a lot of problems and our domestic arena here and we don't want to send more soldiers up. we want to concentrate more on jobs, the unemployment rates are high, et cetera. and so he's listening to the generals on the ground, and of course, there are those who are saying, you should do what the generals tell you. he's taking time to go through and talk to everybody, including the leaders of congress, et cetera, et cetera. people are all nervous. they don't know what's going to happen. >> but this isn't this the good war that bush should have fought in the first place? isn't this is where we're supposed to be? to fight terrorism?

>> this is what he said, this is what he believed. we have always believed that we should employ diplomacy, that we should try to help rebuild the infrastructure, we should make friends. of course, we wage war in afghanistan, but i don't know if those air strikes where we killed civilians and those drones that were sent out that killed civilians helped us at all up there. so now we have the taliban and they just killed, recently, eight of our soldiers up in some remote area in afghanistan and i'm wondering, why are these young people dying up in this remote area? what are we trying to do? what does "win" mean? does this mean we have to kill all the taliban? how do we know when we have won? i don't know and this president has a difficult decision to make, but he's got a base out there who are not happy about sending 40,000 more troops into afghanistan. >> okay. well, one of the things you brought up is that we have a lot of problems, domestically. >> yes. >> like unemployment. i mean, you said this morning, i saw you on a program this morning. you said, unemployment is at 50%

to 60% in some areas. what happened to the stimulus money? we got $800 billion in the stimulus. $81 billion was for infrastructure. what happened to all that money? why aren't they fixing the roads like everybody promised in the democratic congress? >> well, i think the descriptions of what it was going to do might have been a little bit too much. for example, they did retain some teachers, police and firemen in these cities who would have been laid off, who would have lost their jobs and we were very appreciative in california because of our budget problems that we were able to not do as big of cuts as we would have had to have done had we not had the stimulus. joy, you know what i think the problem is? the bureaucracy has not allowed much of this stimulus money to hit the street. by the time you do a pre-bid conference and you go out to bid and you do the selection process, it takes time. so the infrastructure money for the shovel-ready projects that were supposed to be on the street to create jobs just has not been felt yet. >> okay.

what about -- let's talk about health care, then, really fast. okay, what's holding this up? is it the -- i mean, we've got the majority in congress now, the democrats, what is holding it up? is it the republicans or the blue dogs? what's going on? >> it's a combination of things. as a matter of fact, you have been watching what has been going on the senate side. and i have not been too kind to our senators in the way that they do things and they have, you know, been very slow, very deliberate, and the house has been waiting on the senate. we passed out three bills on the house side. we're going to put all those bills together. we're waiting until the senate does whatever it's going to do. i expect they're not going to have a public option in that bill. we are -- >> well, that's terrible, i think. that was the -- that's the one thing that will make health care significantly -- >> that's right. >> -- improved in this country, is the public option. >> competition! >> and they're going to throw the public option under the bus. is that what's happening? >> well, the senate side, we can't expect very much from them. i don't think they're going to have public option in their final bill. but i want to tell you

something, joy. we're going to get it on the house side. it's going to be a terrible fight if we don't get this, i mean, you know, the bricks are going to fly. we have got to have public option. >> the bricks are going to fly. congressman, stay with me. i want to bring in tonight's panel, okay? >> okay. >> steve kor knacky, a political columnist with the new york observer, and media commentator, sam cedar, welcome, guys. let's get back to afghanistan, quickly. even the lovely sarah palin is weighing in on the afghan debate on facebook. which some people say should be called shut your facebook. this is what she wrote. now is not the time for cold feet, second thoughts, or indecision. it is the time to act as commander in chief and approve the troops so clearly needed in afghanistan. does she have any influence in policy making? what do you think about this? >> well, first of all, she sort of contradicts herself. you know, act as commander in chief and do exactly what the military leaders tell you. isn't the commander in yeef be the one that makes the decision.

in terms of her influence, it's minimal to nonexistent. what you're really seeing is a woman that wants to run for president in 2012, knows that you've got to stand up to obama and the base. >> but, really, does she have any influence, really and truly, at the end of the day? do we have to be scared of this woman in the next election? >> no -- >> presidential. >> i think it will be very entertaining to see her run, but i don't think this is about her presidential aspirations, this is about her selling a book. i think that's it, end of story. to the extent that she has any impact on policy, it has maybe facebook policy, but certainly not about foreign policy. >> i mean, it's a woman who quit her job -- she quit her job to write a book, and now she's telling obama what to do. maxine, congresswoman, do you have a response to sarah at all in this case? >> no, i don't think she's worthy of a response. this is a woman who's writing a book and someone remarked the other day, she hasn't even read one. so i don't care what she has to say. >> isn't that in the long tradition of republican behavior? i mean, they had bush, he never read a book, now we have her,

she never read a book. it's typical, isn't it? >> i think so, joy. >> okay. president bush started this war in 2001. remember? remember this? let's look at this. >> on my orders, the united states military has begun strikes against al qaeda terrorist training camps and military installations of the taliban regime in afghanistan. we will not waver, we will not tire, we will not falter, and we will not fail. >> you know, oh, country, president bush, you did fail. it was a half-baked attempt in afghanistan, am i right? >> within -- i think, within, literally, within months of when he's saying there, he was already diverting $700 million of money that was to go to our forces in afghanistan into prepping for iraq. i mean, i think that was the game plan from day one. they didn't put enough ground troops in the beginning. they let bin laden go in tora bo bora. to a certain extent, afghanistan

was window dressing, i think, for an administration that really wanted to go to iraq. >> and yet, president obama seems to be getting the blame for this war and getting a lot of flak for it. listen to what representative boehner said yet. >> we do recognize that he has a tough decision and he wants ample time to make a good decision. frankly, i support that. but we need to remember that every day that goes by, the troops that we do have there are in greater danger. >> congresswoman, isn't it a bigger danger to act rashly in this case and send more troops in without a plan? i think that you would agree with that, yes? >> i would agree. and the president has said such. he says that it's not a matter of having more troops. what's the plan, what's the strategy? and supposedly, this is what he's trying to get a handle on. as you know, you know, the troops that are there and we're losing these young people every day, have not broken up any training camps in any recent times.

i haven't seen any information that tells us they found training camps where the terrorists were. you know, what i worry about, joy, is up between that border, between afghanistan and pakistan, it is a no-man's-land. everything is going on up there. these taliban and the terrorists, what have you, that operate up there, can traverse those mountains with bare feet. so we send our soldiers in there, but what's the mission? what are they trying to accomplish there? if they are looking for terrorists, then i would tell them, look in somalia, look in yemen, look all over. i mean, what are we doing? what is this all about? >> isn't it a better strategy, though, to find terrorists by using wiretapping and moles in these places, the way we've done it in the united states. we found out a lot about terrorist attempts here with that. >> well, this whole thing, from the very beginning, go back to 2001, it was like, what was the point anyway? because afghanistan, it's impossible to sort of build a country there. a functioning country, like we would define it. it's been defined as the second

most failed state in the world, next to maybe somalia. but obama gets some of the blame here. i know he just became president, but he raised expectations on this during the campaign, for a strategic, political reason during the campaign. and i think a lot of us saw this coming during the campaign. >> and what do you mean? >> he wanted to be the anti-iraq war candidate, not the anti-war candidate. so, by contrast, he would say, i'm against the war in iraq, but i want to do it right in afghanistan and he set that expectation. >> we'll let you have the last word on that. thanks very much, sam, steve, congresswoman, thank you for joining me. back in just a minute with something that's been bugging me.

david letterman, who makes fun of everyone else's sex life gets caught cheats on his partner of 23 years with young women who work for him and his ratings go up, up, up. in fact, on monday night, he beat every show on nbc prime-time. and being embroiled in a sex scandal doesn't hurt in politics either. i remember when bill clinton was doing the nasty with monica lewinsky. his approval ratings were even

higher than when she was just doing his job. the people of south carolina are rallying around mark sanford, their christian governor, who somehow mistook an argentinian woman's vagina for the appalachian trail. how fabulous is that? next time, if sanford wants to win in a landslide, maybe he should have an affair with a swede and tell his wife he's snowboarding in minks. let's face it, sex sells. sex scandals may ruin marriages, upset families, and become national embarrassments, but so what? the main thing here is that americans are transfixed. they don't want to miss one little salacious detail. it's a ratings bonanza. this is a new show and i could use a little leg up. maybe it's time for me to have a dal dalliance of my own. this studio is crawling with men. hank, i don't mean too much offense, but there's no friggin'

way, even i have standards, but that's just me.

gay rights advocates are marching on washington on sunday. why? because americans have a long way to go in the fight for gay rights. as if coming out of the closet wasn't hard enough, imagine coming out of the closet in middle school. that's what three of my next guests have done. joining me to discuss this are

christian sar jano, designer and author of "fierce style" and he is fires, and three openly gay teenagers from oklahoma, misty, austin, and ben. christian, let's start with you. what was your experience coming out? >> well, it's interesting. my story really isn't very tragic. it's pretty, just, simple and it just kind of was the way i was. and i never did a whole kind of, oh, mom, i'm this way or this way, it kind of just happened. but i think, also, that was because i went to an art high school. >> what about when you were younger? were you playing with dolls? >> of course. i had all the american girl dolls. no, but i think, i was also very into sports and i was into other things, so i was kind of like well rounded, maybe. no, i was just interested in everything. and i think my mom was just kind of in denial for years. and then, finally, it was just like, okay, he'll make money one day. >> i know, because you're so creative. what about your dad, though, sometimes the fathers are harder with the boy. >> it is interesting.

i think with my dad, it was never a big discussion and it never really was something so serious for him, because he, himself, is a bit eccentric. >> why, what's wrong with him? >> no, no -- i know, right. trust me, let me tell you, he wears three-piece suits and owns a bakery. so it's questionable. but i think with my dad, he was so -- and he loves fashion and style. and he was just so into kind of the same things my sister and i were into, so i don't know, i think he was just open, which is nice. >> that was lucky for you. >> it was lucky. misty, how old were you when you realized you were gay? >> i kind of knew all along. my mom said when i was like 3, i would tell the waitresses they were pretty, but i didn't officially come out of the closet until i was 12. and i came out to a group of friends and i asked them to keep it to themselves and they couldn't keep it to themselves and the next day the whole school found out. and i kept it to myself and i

was like, okay, i can't do this forever. so i was like, guys, i'm bisexual. let's get it out there. >> how did you know you were bisexual? >> girls are pretty, they smell good, have the nice skin, like to look all pretty. it was just something about them and i felt i could neck more with a girl than a guy, but i wasn't going to leave guys hanging. i was going to give them the chance. but it took me a year to come out full lesbian. it was hard, but i got through it. >> how about you, austin? how did you come out and how did your parents' take it? >> well, i came out through my counselor. i told a couple of friends and then it kind of got around a little bit and people started asking me and i didn't really deny it at all. at first, i did a little, but then people were just asking me and i was like, yeah. and i haven't had really any trouble in school. my mom, she took it well. my dad, we haven't really discussed it at all.

we don't talk about it. >> your father's in denial? >> well, i don't talk to him that much, so we haven't discussed it at all. >> ben, were you worried about the reaction to your coming out in oklahoma, very conservative state? >> yeah, i always felt like oklahoma is more closed minded, you know, they weren't really accepting of gays. >> that's why everyone comes to new york. >> right, we really do. >> people come to new york. it's a gay place to come. we have fun here, we have gay people, we love everybody in new york. not really, but whatever. >> some days. >> christian, do you think that the culture has changed much from when you were in middle school? >> i do -- i think so. i mean, for me, it just was reality tv. because i think it's so real and so in people's lives and so personal and everyone's different. and i think, especially for me, that's kind of how i kind of put it out there, very publicly.

>> you know, this was surprising to me. gay middle schoolers have it tougher than gay high schoolers. isn't that interesting? >> middle school is tough. >> middle school is -- >> it really is. >> according to the lesbian state education nerks, 91% of gay middle schoolers were harassed. the rate of physical assault against gay in middle school, nearly doubled the rate in high school. were any of you betten up or hit in some way? >> no. >> at my school i was -- i got verbal abuse a lot, but it actually came down to me sitting in the cafeteria having french fries with ketchup and ranch thrown at me during lunch. i was told to shake it off, it was just kids. it came down to another personal friend of mine who came out as bisexual and she actually did get beat up for her sexual orientation. it was to the point where i didn't want to walk to school anymore because i was so scared middle school is a lot harder.

>> much harder. stay right here. we'll be right back.

i need to tell you something. you are a tranny who looks like a hot -- not in a good way. you're a tranny out of control super tranny from transilvania who is not apologizing for it. >> is that good? i'm sorry, i don't understand a word you're saying. >> that was amy poehler's impression from snl p.m. i'm back with the real christian siriano. >> every time i see it it kind of scares me because i actually can't do it that well. no, it's, i mean, it's funny.

>> it's so funny. they imitate me, too. it's funny. >> it's amazing. i think it's an amazing compliment and i do sound like that so it's okay. >> the gay and lesbian straight education network made a campaign to reduce homophobic remarks. take a look. >> are you going out tonight? >> my parents say i have to be home after work. >> that's so gay. >> totally gay. >> that is so emma and julia. >> why are you saying that's so emma and julia? >> you know, when something is dumb and stupid, you say that's emma and julia. >> who says that? >> everyone. >> so that phrase, that's so gay, everybody uses it, i think. a lot of people use it. what's your reaction? does it hurt your feelings? >> i think for me it isn't as personal because i think that -- i think people just -- i think there are so many words people throw around just like that's so gay or you're so gay.

it's -- i don't take it as personal but i know people who do. i do think that it's one of those things that -- i don't know. it is hurtful in a way, but -- >> it's a stereotype. >> it is. >> if someone says, oh, throw pillows on the couch in a certain way, that's so gay, does that offend you? >> that does. >> why in. >> it only offends me -- i think because having that stereotype is kind of what -- i think it gives everyone else kind of in the industry or everyone else in your life kind of the same reasoning to treat you that different way. just because of your sexual orientation, which i don't think it should be such a -- >> i think that, you know, let's say it's a black thing. you wouldn't say that's so black. people would get offended. that's so jewish. you wouldn't say that. people don't. the gay community has a point. >> they do. >> political correctness drains the fun out of everything, too.

you know -- >> maybe i've said once in my life, that's so gay. >> okay. let me hear about your book. >> it's about style. looking fabulous. you are fabulous. love these earrings. >> want them? >> can i borrow them? no. it's fun, it's fashion, it's not serious. it has tips. great celebrity quotes. all about style. >> you're having a lot of fun, aren't you? >> it's good. it's been a busy year. genius. >> you dressed her, didn't you in. >> for the tony. >> for the tony. >> it was fabulous. pirate blouse. what can you do with that? >> she loves the pirates -- >> she loves the blouse, the poncho. look at those legs. have you ever seen that? >> no, she has great legs. sunny thighs. thanks for christian and all my guests for joining me tonight. thanks for watching. good night, everybody. good night, john boy. i'm going say that every night for a while.

breaking news tonight. a million-dollar mansion, a tv deal, personal stylists, a fleet of luxury cars, beautiful people, eight beautiful children. they had it all. but tonight, allegations of daddy siphoning the last drop of the family's money to support all his girlfriends and his lavish lifestyle, siphoning to the tune of a quarter million dollars. allegations of illegal wiretapping, phone taps, bank account and computer surveillance by daddy, a known computer specialist. charges of drug use, x-rated

sleepovers with a bartender, daddy allegedly hired to babysit in the home with the children asleep upstairs. and that's the tip of the iceberg. didn't we all know it would end in court? "jon & kate plus 8." is daddy headed to the big house? >> for years, jon, you had your children on tv on a reality show. but suddenly when it's no longer "jon & kate plus 8," it's "kate plus 8," you suddenly have a problem with it and you want it all to come to an end? and i don't believe that. >> regardless of the timing, i'm their father and i will do what's best for my children. >> the timing is -- >> oh, you got your lawyer here. you're afraid to answer questions? whatever. what's important is the children and not these two self-absorbed husband and wife who argue constantly in front of their children. >> exactly. that's why they're coming off -- >> that's why the show -- >> why don't you just quit arguing and work on your marriage? >> exactly. >> wouldn't that be a better

idea? and go back to a happy family? >> if i could get kate to mediate and talk, we could do that. >> you've been to therapy together once and have not been back but you want to go back with kate, right? >> yes. i would love to go to mediation. i would love to be mom and dad. we're not going to be husband and wife. >> hey, you talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk. >> that's right. actions speak louder than words. >> one 22-year-old after the next while she's at home with the children. and say you want to work it out. that's not working it out, jon gosselin. >> in light of all the allegations and everything that's gone on in the past week alone, should the kids be in therapy? >> not so much as they need to go to therapy as jon and kate need to go into therapy and learn to quit arguing and set a good example for the children. >> how do you feel? do you feel like your kids need therapy? are you seeing any problems? >> well, i'm not a professional, but the hardest thing i ever did was tell them we're getting a divorce. >> i'm saying get the babies therapy because you never know. the effects of this could be far-reaching. and -- >> you don't know until you're an adult and sometimes that's too late. >> exactly. >> and that's what happened to me. i'm learning -- i mean, my father, his father.

i'm learning to break the pattern. and tonight, live to chicago. a beautiful 16-year-old chicago girl literally vanishes off the street. tonight, where is 16-year-old jennifer jones? >> a frantic search is right now under way for a beautiful missing chicago teen. 16-year-old jennifer jones was last seen leaving her home at 6:00 a.m. she was supposed to go to school, but she never showed up. the family says the girl suffers from bipolar disorder, and they are begging for the public's help. >> good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. a quarter million dollars gone? allegations of illegal wiretapping? hacking into bank accounts? hacking into cell phones? claims of x-rated sleepovers with eight children asleep

upstairs? "jon & kate plus 8," it had to end in court. >> we're in the middle of a divorce. why should we televise it? it's not helping. >> you're in the middle of a divorce because of you. and frankly -- >> wrong. wrong. wrong. kate approached me -- >> i've never seen two more self-absorbed people in my life. you have eight children hanging in the balance while you and kate eheeh. >> sorry for talking over you. but in october she said -- >> no, you're not. you put your children on television for years, but now suddenly you stick a sign on the house that says you can't film here anymore? is it because it used to be "jon & kate plus 8" but now it's "kate plus 8" and you're not making anymore money? >> absolutely not. i will always make money, and i'm not doing it for the money. >> he took $230,000 of the $231,000 that we have liquid. and i have a stack of bills in my purse i can't drop in the mail. >> she's making claims that she can't back up. if she said i took $230,000, where's the bank statement to prove it? >> you can't have it both ways.

you can't make all this money, put your kids on tv, and then now when she's making the money say uh-uh, uh-uh. it doesn't work like that. >> it's not about the money. it's about getting my kids off tv. >> the kids have over the weekend -- i told them we're not filming at this point. and actually times eight there was wailing and sobbing. they love our crew. they love the interaction. they love the events. and there is nothing harmful about it. >> i'm not the bad guy here. i'm the one trying to protect my children. that's called being a parent. i'm protecting my children. >> not according to the legal documents i have here in my hands. we are taking your calls. it all seemed too good to be true. the reality show "jon & kate plus 8." and in reality, it's not. it's not as good as it seems. not even close to it. now allegations of drug use, allegations of x-rated sleepovers in the home with the children upstairs. claims that jon gosselin has hacked into his wife's checking account, her cell phone, her computer.

remember, he was, before he quit work, an information technologist for the state of pennsylvania, a computer wiz. straight out to chris jacobs, correspondent with "the insider." but now there are claims that he has siphoned nearly $250,000 off the family account? >> you know, nancy, that is the story right now. the truth has yet to come out, however. there's three sides to this story, as in most situations. there's kate's side. she says that jon took $230,000 out of a joint account. jon claims he only took $22,000 out. he's only been able to produce one withdrawal slip showing that transaction because of his inability to access the internet, we have not yet seen the bank statements. so we don't yet know what the truth is. >> wait a minute. wait a minute. chris jacobs, "insider." did you just say his inability to access his account? did you say that? >> well, what he told us here -- yes, he did, nancy. he told us here at "the insider"

that he does not have the access to the online account that kate was supposed to give him, he was going to wait until he got home to new york. he arrived today. we still have not had any statements sent to us here at "the insider." >> so he arrived today, but still no clarification? i thought at an earlier stage, jane velez-mitchell, joining us is hln's host of "issues" and author of "i want." jane, didn't he admit earlier to taking about $100,000? >> well, this is a he said/she said and it's extraordinarily complicated. essentially -- >> no. no. no. it is not a he said/she said because those -- even i, who am computer ill literal, can go on and check my account. okay? even i can do that. so don't tell me that an i.t. specialist, an information tech who worked on computers for the state of pennsylvania, who has allegedly made claims that he has hacked into his wife's checking account, her cell phone, her text messages, her

e-mails, and he can't tell us his last withdrawal? >> well, look, she's saying he took $230,000 from the account. his point of view is that she has more than a dozen checking accounts. this is what he's claimed. and at one point he was heard screaming, "where's the $2 million?" so first of all, i'm wondering why the heck do they have a joint checking account, nancy, when they're in the process of getting divorced? how crazy is that? >> i want to go to clark goldband, our producer on the story. clark, what can you tell me about the latest claims that are hitting the newsstands tomorrow in the "enquirer" that he allegedly has hacked into his wife's -- all of her accounts and actually bragged about it to the bartender turned baby-sitter? >> explosive claims from stephanie santoro, the cocktail waitress jon was friendly with, some reports say he had relations with her. according to these claims by

santoro he, in fact, hacked into kate's cell phones, kate's transactions including her credit card and computer and even knew that kate allegedly was having an affair. of course, these are unfounded claims, but this is what jon told stephanie santoro. santoro says jon just casually one night mentioned according to this report that this stuff's not good, my good stuff's in new york. she said, jon, what do you mean? she realized he was referring to marijuana, nancy. >> let's unleash the lawyers. we are taking your calls with us. jennifer smetters, family attorney from chicago. renee rockwell, defense attorney atlanta jurisdiction. and bradford cohen, defense attorney, miami. renee, what's he looking at if it can be proved by police, and they can do it if it happens, that he has been hacking into his wife's checking account, her cell phone, her text messages, her e-mails? what's he looking at? >> i can tell you about georgia, nancy. that is a criminal offense. you cannot check your husband's voicemail. you cannot check his text

messaging. nothing like that. but what he's also looking at, nancy, is a contempt charge because of the arbitration he had to get consent before he took anything out of that joint checking account. >> now, hold on. would it make any difference, bradford cohen, if you are hacking into your wife's account? they're not divorced yet. >> well, here's the thing. there's two things that may make a difference. the first is you don't know who pays the phone bills. you don't know if this is a family plan -- i don't know if the phone is actually in his name, so he was actually just hacking her phone -- >> it's in her name. it's in her name. it's in her name. >> if it's in her name, i don't think it makes a difference whatsoever that it's his wife in terms of that he's hacking into her phone system or hacking into the computer. now, if it's a shared computer, again, that's another issue. if it's a shared -- >> they are not living in the same home. hey, hey, hey, hey. have you been living in a -- put cohen up. have you been living in a cave? he's living in his bachelor pad in new york -- >> currently. currently. you're correct. but i'm talking about when it

originally happened, when he originally hacked into it. he said -- >> as i was saying, he's telling -- allegedly telling his girlfriend. last time i looked two plus two's still four. he got the girlfriend after they split. so he's not in the home anymore. all right? does that help? >> no, it doesn't help. because we still don't know when he actually did it. he may have been talking about something he did in the past. >> okay. got it. got it. jennifer smetters, weigh in. >> i think what he's doing is wrong, and i think it will come to bite him in the end. what he is trying to do is manipulate the situation. people going through a divorce normally show the ugliest part of them. and what he is doing is showing a pattern and practice of using and manipulating information to his best interest. >> on the other hand, we've got to consider the source. right now this is only one person's word. was it pillow talk by bartender turned babysitter stephanie santori?

>> kate and i are -- kate and i come together for our kids. we've always been there for them. we know what's best for them. please, people, stop interfering in our lives. we know what's best.

every night hln's nancy grace brings you the real drama straight from the courtroom. >> every lawyer has a different version of what they would think justice is. >> tnt mondays. raising the bar is all new. >> to me justice is a jury rendering a verdict that speaks the truth. >> you trust him. because that's what this case comes down to. >> stephen bochco's "raising the bar." mondays at 10:00 on tnt. and pick up nancy's new book, "the eleventh victim," available now wherever books are sold. where's the million dollars from the book? where's the $1.25 million from the show? i know how much we paid for the house.

i know how much the mortgage is. i know all that stuff. where's the rest of the money, kate? what'd you do with it? i mean, i only took -- i took less than 10%. less than 10%. since march till now. less than 10%. where is the $2 million? $2 million. >> i sat all day while my kids were in school paying bills, as i normally do, and when i made the phone call to my lady at the bank that handles my accounts to transfer the money, she called me back about 45 minutes later and told me she could not do the transfers because our bank account that had had $231,000 in it now had $1,346 in it. >> you just heard kate gosselin calling in to abc's "the view." we are taking your calls live. to stephanie in indiana. hi, stephanie. >> caller: hi, nancy. thanks for taking my call. >> thank you for calling in, dear. what's your question? >> caller: as a mother one of my

views of jon gosselin, he says he has his children's best interests at heart, but the damage he's doing to his sons by showing them all these women that he's with, he's teaching them that women are trash, and he's teaching them -- his daughters it's okay for the men to treat them like trash. >> to dr. jeff gardere, psychologist, author of "love prescription" and many, many other books. dr. jeff, what about it? >> your caller's absolutely right. and what we see in these sorts of divorces, people become so angry, we see the worst behaviors come out and they don't think about the kids. they act out to the point of if the kids are around they become collateral damage. >> you're seeing shots of jon gosselin partying all over the country with one of his girlfriends, hailey glassman. what do we know about her, chris jacobs? chris joining us from "the insider." >> well, we don't know very much more than she's 22 years old and

she is the girlfriend of jon gosselin, who he jumped into a relationship with soon after becoming separated from kate. >> what's her age? oh, hold on. hold on. chris, i don't know if you missed this one. but here's her mug shot. that's a little detail you might have missed -- >> we unfortunately have only seen the worst of hailey. but jon claimed to me in an interview i did exclusively for "the insider" yesterday, that he is in love with hailey and he does plan on staying with her for the rest of his life. >> chris. chris, chris, chris. >> make of that what you want. >> he said that of kate, too. i don't care about that. what i care about is what's happening in court. the custody battle that is brewing and allegations of siphoning $250,000 plus hacking into bank accounts, text messages, cell phones. those are crimes. and if they're true -- >> yes. >> -- he's headed to jail. all right? if they're true. >> this situation has more twists and turns than the hedge maze at the end of the movie "the shining." we just don't know where the out is.

what we do know is that jon made one withdrawal for $22,000. whether there were others we do not know. and it kind of surprises me that there hasn't been a financial forensic investigation yet, that we don't have these bank statements which purportedly would show what the truth is. those have not been produced by either side. >> well, do we know that? it may not be time to produce them. very quickly, to marc klaas, president and founder of klaaskids foundation. i want to talk about custody, marc klaas. and we have seen, you and i both, in situations like this, it escalate. escalate rapidly. we know that the girlfriend, hailey glassman, has this arrest record. we know that there are allegations of him having x-rated sleepovers in the home with the bartender turned babysitter while the children are there. now these allegations of siphoning a quarter million dollars. how could that or would that affect custody?

>> well, i'm certainly no family law lawyer or lawyer of any kind, but what i can tell you, nan nancy, is the abysmal behavior on the part of both of these parents, and particularly jon, is revictimizing these children on a regular basis. they're subject to peer pressure. they're subject to finding out about this stuff as it's been documented immemoriam. and at some point they're going to realize their father is out there blithering on about millions of dollars, their mother saying that he's stealing the money, and the whole world's watching this thing absolutely aghast. i feel terribly for these little kids because -- >> i do too. >> -- certainly they are caught in the cross-hairs some of very bad behavior. >> you're coming down on jon gosselin. but prior to this i've never seen two more self-absorbed people in my life. in every shot the children are just looking up to them clambering for attention and

they're not getting it. to candy in illinois. hi, candy. >> caller: hi, nancy. thanks for caking my call. >> thank you for calling. what's your question, dear? >> caller: i have a question about if jon's putting a halt to this show and that means no income, does he now have to come up with money of his own for like alimony, child support -- >> you mean like -- candy, are you suggesting that he work? what about it, jane velez-mitchell? >> according to this report, one of the women says he's planning to ask for alimony. so it would appear that he might want to be supported by kate if she has the money, if she's able to continue the show. then, again, he's trying to stop the show, so if he stops the show entirely he could run out of his source of income. >> it's not about the money. it's about getting my kids off tv. i feel that my kids -- >> why was it okay when you did it? >> because i wasn't -- i feel now empowered. >> you're broke? >> no, i'm not broke. i'm not broke at all. >> i can see that. you've got on two diamond earrings.

you're obviously not broke. >> actually they're czs, but i'm not going to go into that. >> don't care.

do you want to stop or do you want it to continue? do you want everything to be drudged up and embarrassing for your kids and embarrassing to you? please, kate, let's just get off television and go mediate. what's the big deal? what's there to hide? >> my true nature is to freak out about everything. everything's a big drama. everything's, you know, the end of the world. >> kate, come on, stop, it's ridiculous. >> i persevere. i will not lay down and die. >> what's important is the children and not these two self-absorbed husband and wife who argue constantly in front of their children. do the right thing. we are taking your calls. is daddy headed to the pokey? that will be a whole new reality series. straight out to the line, chantel, pennsylvania. hi, dear. >> caller: hi, how are you? >> i'm good, dear. what's your question?

>> caller: i just wanted to say that i live by jon and kate's house in warnersville and i drove past it on sunday. the kids were outside playing. there was one paparazzi out. he said that kate was not outside, she was at an interview for the "today show" for monday morning and jon was in california. who's taking care of these kids? that's my -- >> excellent question. to chris jacobs with "the insider," what about it? who is taking care of them? >> while jon was here in los angeles and kate was in new york, the duties of taking care of the children fell to one of kate's friends, who ironically looked a lot like kate and you might have seen those paparazzi snapshots of her grabbing one of the children, scolding them. and that caused a big stir not only here on our set at "the insider" but also out there in the pop culture world. >> i did see that. to dr. laura jana, pediatrician, author of "heading home with your newborn." doctor, thank you for being with us. doctor, what is this going to do to the children?

>> you know, nancy, unfortunately i can't think of anything good to say to that. divorce is never easy in the first place, but these children are being exposed to the worst case of divorce. and when you're talking about even the physical symptoms that come with the stress of it, we're talking about stomach aches, headaches, sleep problems, eating problems. all those sorts of things. not to mention the long-term experience of living with what's really becoming a traumatic experience for them.

they love the camera crew. they love all those guys. they make nicknames for them. you know, the p.a.s, the production assistants there. they play with the kids. we all get along and play together. and it's like a family environment. that's how we worked together. it's comfortable for the kids. that way there's no animosity. i mean, that's the way it is. >> you put your children on television for years, but now suddenly you stick a sign on the house that says you can't film here anymore? is it because it used to be "jon & kate plus 8" but now it's

"kate plus 8" and you're not making any more money? >> absolutely not. i will always make money, and i'm not doing it for the money. i'm doing it to restore family values. i'm -- >> say what? >> i'm doing it to restore family values. i want to -- >> do you think by dating hailey glassman when your divorce is not settled that you're restoring family values? and look, hey, i'm not all about family values. i'm just saying that you can't have it both ways. you can't make all this money putting your kids on tv and then now when she's making the money say uh-uh, uh-uh. >> i know that personally, for myself and the kids, this has been a good experience. it continues to be a good experience. >> will you demand that that money be redeposited in the account? >> i have to in order to keep my kids where they live and to put food on their table. i need that money to provide for them. you have to understand my position here. we were in a position after our sextuplets were born that we could not pay our bills. we did the show to provide a better life for them. never did i think i would be back in the same position,

worried about providing for them. >> that was kate gosselin on nbc's "today show." restore family values? what's he going to do with all that money, chris jacobs? go buy another ed hardy t-shirt? how much do those things run? couple hundred bucks for a t-shirt. >> whatever it is, they're charging too much, nancy. again, i mean, we have to put the word "alleged" in front of everything that has to do with this situation. the truth is that third side of this story. and the longer it goes on -- >> why do you keep saying there's a third side of the story? what do you mean by that? >> well, because i say there's -- >> his side, her side. what's the third side? >> the truth is the third side, nancy. >> well put. >> the truth is the third side. >> well put, chris jacobs. back to you, clark goldband. we were supposed to be in court today. what was to be heard? unfortunately, the judge's wife, extremely ill with cancer. what about it? what was set on the menu for today? >> that's right, nancy.

all eyes on a montgomery county, pennsylvania, courtroom, where these charges kate gosselin has brought forward, saying jon has taken $230,000. she wants that money repaid within 24 hours. also, what she wants is 60 days is receipts for every dime jon gosselin has spent. she also wants jon gosselin to turn in his mercedes and bmw in -- >> wait, wait, wait. he's got a mercedes and a bmw? >> yes. >> okay. go ahead. >> she wants him to turn in the bmw and mercedes in lieu of this money. if some of the money has already been spent, and it very well may now that this hearing has been tabled till next week, kate gosselin -- >> you're right. $200,000 will go pretty fast with that kind of spending if he's got a whole week without any court controls. to john lucich, former criminal investigator and president of high-tech crime network. he says he actually told "the insider" that he could not get access to his bank account. okay? my mother, who is in her 70s,

knows how to access her bank account on the computer. i know how to do it. and he, the i.t. expert, the computer wiz, cannot get access to his bank account? b.s. now, telling me that makes me suspicious. >> oh, there's no doubt about it. in fact, what may have occurred -- and again, there's a lot we don't know about. maybe she changed the password and he couldn't get in, which led him to hack into that. now, if he's an account holder on that and he has authorization to get into that account and use that account, then it's not actually hacking. and as far as all the other allegations against this guy, where they're saying that he may have violated wiretap laws, all the things they talked about are stored communications. those communications are not in transit. e-mail, voicemail messages, all stored communications and none of those actually violate the wiretap. there may be some issues if he violated the security on those accounts where he didn't have access to, and that is hacking at the federal level and state levels and punishable --

>> you know, john lucich, i'm not exactly sure what you just said, but after practicing law since 1984, and yes, i will date myself, i know that it is a crime -- i don't need to go look it up in the code annotated. it is a violation of the law to hack into somebody else's e-mail account, to hack into their cell phone account, who they've been calling, who they've been texting -- >> if that's what he did. you can get access to that e-mail without going into that account. it's all on that hard drive, and if someone imaged that hard drive and if he's a technologist and knew how to get access to those files, he could easily recover -- >> can you break it down, lucich? can you break it down? you don't need to throw around all the fancy computer talk with me. are you trying to say that if he's sitting at the home computer and he's got access to it there and he doesn't have to hack in, it's not a violation, but if he is remote and he's using somebody's pass codes or otherwise getting in surreptitiously that that is a violation of the law? >> absolutely. it's a violation of the law. >> okay. got it. out to the lines, chantel, pennsylvania.

hi, dear. uh-oh. marilyn, missouri. go ahead, marilyn. >> caller: yeah. everybody's talking about it's jon and kate's money. it seems to me like it's the kids' money. why ain't they putting it in an account and have a guardian take care of it? >> marilyn, truer words were never spoken. if she's telling the truth, to you, jennifer smetters, renee rockwell, bradford cohen. she said that they started this whole venture of the reality tv show to better their children, to let them all goi to college. for pete's sake, they've got eight of them, renee rockwell, why isn't there a guardian taking care of the children's finances? >> there will be now, nancy. and what a recipe for -- >> well, that's a day late and a dollar short. >> i know that. but what a recipe for disaster when you have $230,000 and people that are in a joint account and people that are at each other's throat. i think that they were bound, somebody was bound to grab that money. >> you know what? we don't know all the facts yet,

cohen, but you tell me, ed hardy t-shirts, mercedes, bmw, sprees to las vegas, a bachelor pad in new york. h uh-huh. that is not fitting together with a guy who wants to restore family values. and all you people that think, oh, kate was a witch, she was evil, she was mean, that's not what this is about. this is not miss congeniality or mr. personality contest. this is an alleged crime. >> oh, yeah.n't think anyone is in this. certainly he looks worse than she does at this point. but who knows what's going to come out? the behavior that he's, you know, doing at this point obviously is not the behavior he wants his kids to see -- >> i'm asking about a guardian. and everybody, you're seeing pictures of jon and kate's children from tlcdiscovery.com. repeat, bradford. >> i believe there's probably trusts that were set up for these kids. i don't think that $230,000,

from what i've read, was attributable to the kids' income. i believe that the kids have separate accounts, is what kate said originally, that they had separate accounts. now, i don't know for sure because we don't know -- we haven't verified that fact. >> got it. >> but usually in situations like this there are separate trusts set up for minors. >> to smetters, jennifer smetters, why has the court not set up a guardian for the children's finances so exactly this type of thing couldn't happen? >> well, you know what? sometimes the courts actually expect that the litigants are going to have some integrity and follow the court orders. that didn't happen here. they're going to see a guardian appointed now. and also probably a guardian for the children to see what their best interests -- to make sure their best interests are being met. >> to stephanie in louisiana. hi, stephanie. >> caller: hi, nancy. i love your show, by the way. >> thank you. >> caller: but i was just wondering why everybody's coming down so hard on jon and nobody's saying anything about kate?

>> okay. stephanie. what do you have to see? >> caller: well, talking about how he has these cars. but if you look at her, she's got two vans. she lives in a $1.2 million house. and everything she gets is free. nobody's saying -- >> but remember. remember, stephanie, that's the home where the children live. >> caller: correct. >> when it's her visitation, she's there. when it's his visitation -- >> caller: but she goes on vacation. >> as i was saying, when it's his visitation, he lives in the home. it's kind of a little bit of a wacky situation. >> caller: it is. but she's always taking vacations, and she's got all these nannies for these kids. she's not even with them. >> everybody, we are taking your calls live. but quickly to tonight's safety tip. atms on every corner. and so are crooks. common sense goes a long way. never use atms in the backs or sides of buildings. find one in a very busy common area. prepare your deposit slips and envelopes ahead of time. with those drive-up atms keep the car running and the door locked. never, never, never write down your pin number on your card.

i know it sounds obvious, but thieves steal thousands, hundreds of thousands of dollars every year that way. and don't flash the cash when you remove it from the atm. don't count it there in public where it can be snatched. it's an invitation to be robbed. wait until you're in a secure place. for more information on how to stay safe go to homesafetycouncil.org. ddddd

a frantic search is right now under way for a beautiful missing chicago teen. 16-year-old jennifer jones was last seen leaving her home at 6:00 a.m. she was supposed to go to school, but she never showed up. the family says the girl suffers from bipolar disorder, and they are begging for the public's help. jennifer is african-american. she stands 5'6" and weighs about 145 pounds. cops say she was last seen wearing a blue multicolor vest, a blue jacket, blue jeans, and white gym shoes. >> out to chicago and kathy chaney with the "chicago defender." kathy, you alerted us to jennifer jones, age 16. what can you tell me about the little girl missing? >> well, i can tell you police have no leads in her

disappearance and they are desperately looking for the public's help. she was last seen wearing the blue multicolor vest. she also was seen carrying a pink book bag as well. >> a pink book bag. kathy, what can you tell me about the girl? i know that she's just 16 years old. that puts her to be what, either a sophomore, junior, or senior in high school? which one? >> most likely a sophomore or a junior. in high school, yes. >> and what else do we know about her? i know that she has bipolar syndrome, and that could be a problem for her. she could be extremely disoriented somewhere right now if she's in the middle of an episode. >> exactly. and it hasn't been determined if she is on medication or if she has the medication with her. the family is just desperately looking for some help to find jennifer. >> 16 years old. can you imagine your 16-year-old little girl gone? straight off one of the streets of chicago? to ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story.

tell me what you know about the circumstances surrounding jennifer's disappearance, ellie. >> right, nancy. well, jennifer left her home early in the morning. she was supposed to be headed to school. she apparently never showed up there. she was last seen at the corner of 76th street and racine avenue there on the south side of chicago. no one has seen her since. her mother reported her missing. and there have been no leads or sightings since then. >> so she was on her way to school? >> we believe so, yes. >> and where exactly is that in the city, kathy chaney? racine and what? 72? >> 76th and racine is near the auburn-gresham area. it's also near the inglewood area, which is -- >> what does that mean? >> it's kind of bad. it's a low-income neighborhood. it has its crime woes. >> now, just because it's low-income doesn't mean it's bad. all right? but you say the crime rate -- >> well, i'm very familiar with the area. >> so you say the crime rate is bad? >> around that area, yes.

i'm very familiar with that area. so around there, yes. but that actually pretty much has nothing to do with her disappearance. not to say that she's run into some type of foul play. but the neighborhood, from my experience, is not that desirable. >> well, you know, kathy, i think it does have a lot to do with it because a kid in a high-crime area is a lot more likely to meet up with crime than a kid in a low-crime area. you make a very valid point. everybody, this is the first i've heard about this little girl missing. her name, jennifer jones. we think she's a sophomore in high school. she's 16 years old. and she was on her way to school that morning. chicago, illinois. right on a public street. a beautiful young girl, 5'6", about 145 pounds. last known to be wearing blue multicolored vest, jeans, and white sneakers with a pink book bag. on her way to school. how many of you send your kids

out the door every day on the way to school? i'm starting to think i'm going to have to take john david and lucy in an armored tank to get them to school in the morning. to marc klaas, president and founder klaaskids foundation. this is your expertise, marc. what can you tell us? >> well, i can tell you that kids being victimized on the way to school or from school or at school buses is much more common than society allows for. and i think you don't have to take your kids in an armored vehicle but you have to be aware of this and you have to take the obvious precautions. what the authorities are going to want to do is check with her friends, check with the registered sex offenders in the neighborhood, check her cell phone, see if it might be pinging, see if she had taken her medication, if she has any of her medications with her, and certainly check her computer files. and then i think they'll take it from there. >> you know, you were talking

about disappearing on the way to and from school, marc klaas. how common is that? >> yes. well, i don't think anybody's ever done statistics on it, but let me give you a couple of names. itan pats, amber harris, liana fairchild, mitzi sanchez. all little children who were minding their own business going to school or on the school bus. the predators know this. children are very vulnerable in these situations. and obviously, nancy, there are common solutions to that. we can do either high-tech or low-tech solutions as far as the school bus stops go. we can put up surveillance cameras, or it can be a neighborhood project to make sure that there is an adult there every time a child gets onto or gets off of the school bus. the same thing can be done for routing. children shouldn't be walking to school by themselves. parents should show their children the safest routes to and from school and ensure that they are with at least one other person every time they do that. >> i want to go to dr. laura jana, pediatrician, author of "heading home with your newborn:

from birth to reality." dr. jana, bipolar. what does that mean? how could that affect her situation right now? >> well, you know, nancy, this is where reality really sets in. in listening to this conversation, bipolar disorder certainly can play a major role. you know, whether she went off her meds before she went missing and that was a factor in her disappearance or she was taken without her meds. we know that people that have bipolar disorder, which is a mood disorder, you can have swings of mania, poor judgment, risky behavior. and on the other end of that spectrum very depressive episodes. people who have bipolar disorder need their medications. in her situation i'm concerned either way. if she went off of them there would be reason why she might have poor judgment when she went off in the first place. and if she were abducted or something happened against her will where she doesn't have them, i have equal concerns. >> what about it, dr. jeff gardere, psychologist and author? >> yeah. absolutely. i'm concerned that she may have

been in an episode, as you talk about, where she's in a manic phase and may be psychotic. we see that in the manic phase and if she's depressed she might be so depressed she's suicidal. >> >> jennifer jones, age 16. we believe she is a sophomore in high school. i just learned about the case today. she has been missing for about a week. she vanished off the public streets of chicago. around 76th and racine. she is a beautiful young girl about 5'6", 145 pounds. medium complexion wearing blue multicolored vest, jeans, white sneakers. she suffers from bipolar disorder. she had a pink book bag on her way to school. tonight, we ask for your thoughts and your prayers for our friend, veteran felony prosecutor, eleanor odom. she thought she had heartburn which was unusual.

she went to the doctor and they did not let her go home. she has just come through emergency open heart surgery in the last hours. please, pray for her and eleanor, stay strong.

>> jennifer is african-american and stands 5'6" and weighs about 145 pounds. cops say she was last seen wearing a blue multicolored vest, blue jacket, blue jeans and white gym shoes. >> straight out to the cause, elizabeth in connecticut. what's your question? >> caller: first of all i love you and watch you every night. >> thank you, thank you so much. i can't believe this case is say week out and i'm just finding out about it. what's your question? >> caller: does she have computer contacts on the internet that she is friends with?

>> what do we know. have police looked at the computer either at home or school? >> they have not said. they said it's an ongoing investigation and keep together close to the vest and they don't have any leads. >> robin? >> caller: i love you. love the twins. >> thank you. >> caller: hope your mother is doing better and i will keep her in my prayers. >> she is still in the hospital, but i believe she is better. thank you. >> caller: i live in chicago and this is the first time i heard about this young lady missing. the inglewood area has a very, very high register offenders, hundreds within blocks. >> oh! registered sex offenders. what can you me? >> they have issued a community alert for jennifer jones, but police released little information. we don't finish she had a cell

phone with her and if she had one, it's being use and if bank cards are used. we are looking for information and hope they find her soon. >> we will stay on the story. let's stop and remember army staff sergeant car letta davis, 34, anchorage, alaska killed in iraq awarded several medals. purple heart, bronze star and combat medic. she hoped to open a nursing home. leaves behind her mother, car letta, husband thomas and three sons. car letta davis, american hero. thanks to our guests and especially to you. happy birthday to my cajun friend of the show, mary. see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. until then, good night, friend.

i'm aj hammer in new york. this is a "showbiz tonight" news break. some of what we will be covering for ow the show. women over war over the shocking sex scandal. why is it some of hollywood's most powerful women are defending dave. should women support him? the unbelievable two faces of jon and kate. kate cries poverty isy and said she buying a diamond ring. jon said he despisesicate and said something different. are they the biggest hypocrites ever? why is mel gibson officially off the hook for the anti-semitic drunk driving rant and the naked burglar caught on tape. swine flu stardom. a look at all the star who is have been hit with the swine flu. that's your "showbiz tonight" news break, tv's most

provocative news break at the top of the hour.