death at a spiritual retreat. at least 50 people sitting for hours in sauna like sweatbox to get cleansed. many of them start to get sick. 19 go to a hospital. two die. a celebrity self-help guru owns this thing. what went wrong? how did people die? plus a man is accused of trying to lure his 13-year-old daughter for sex. police say the guy hadn't had contact with her since she was 3. tracked her down on facebook. he calls himself bad daddy.

the worst of the worse. 1-877-tell-hln is the number. e-mail at cnn.com/primenews or text at hlntv. just start your message with the word prime. it is your chance to be heard. welcome once again. this is prime news. i'm mike galanos this is awful. at least 50 people were packed in a sweat lodge, sweatbox for hours, looking for spiritual cleansing near sedona, arizona. two people died. 1/3 got sick. these sweatboxes, sweat lodges, traditional indian cleansing ritual. basically a sauna. it is cramped. 53 inches high in the center, 30 inches high on the outside perimeter. thursday this ritual went horribly wrong. here is part of the 911 call.

>> two people aren't breathing. with no pulse. >> is this as a result of a shooting or something? >> no. it was a sweat lodge. >> are you there by yourself? >> no. there are a lot of people here. >> get them out of the sweat lodge. >> people paid 9,000, 10,000 bucks. the host is a celebrity self-help guru, james ray. wrote "the secret." joining us to talk about it, fred teece and joseph brewshack, author of "the native american sweat lodge." and lynn, let's start with you. what went wrong? was it too hot? do we have any details on that front? >> we don't have any details according to the sheriff.

they do not know exactly what the temperature was. there was very little ventilation in the structure which is described as very temporary. right now they are saying the only ventilation is the flap that people entered and left through the structure. >> how many people were in the sweat lodge, as it is called, lynn? >> they are estimating between 55 and 65 when this tragedy occurred. >> 55 to 65 people. give us as far as we mentioned, how many went to the hospital? how many ended up in critical condition? and two died. clarify the numbers? >> they are saying approximately 20 people went to the hospital. most of them were released by the next day. there are still four people at the hospital. one is in critical condition. two are considered fair condition and one has been upgraded to good condition. joseph brewshack, the author of

"the native american sweat lodge." those numbers, 55 to 65 people, that sounds like a lot. can a sweat lodge accommodate that many people? >> generally a sweat lodge is much, much smaller than that. you are responsibility for the health and well being of everyone in that lodge. if anyone has discomfort you have to let them leave. if you have that many people crammed in that space there is no way anyone could be aware of what was going on with everyone there. >> lynn, were there medical personnel onhand? >> there was one nurse hired as a nurse, not as a participant who was there. >> so one nurse for 55 to 65 people. joseph, i'll go back to you. i don't know what goes on. i have not experienced that myself. that doesn't sound like enough to me especially when conditions

are so hot and you could have medical stress. >> a traditional sweat lodge is a sacremental experience. if you know everyone in that lodge you know if someone has emphzema or a medical condition. >> would you normally have medical personnel nearby? >> no. you are talking about members of a tribal community. it is not a bunch of strangers which is really different from a traditional ceremony. >> you know everybody so you know if there is a medical condition. >> let me go to fred. from what we are hearing, what joseph is saying is traditional

and the tragedy in arizona. do you see lawsuits come something. >> i see lawsuit coming. jimmy boy better get out his checkbook. he is going to be writing some. i understand these are covered with cloth. these were covered with tarp. it was reasonably foreseeable this could be a danger. this is the furthest thing from and yan spiritual experience. i see big lawsuits if not actual criminal charges for negligent homicide. mr. ray says he wants to cooperate. he didn't cooperate. he ran out of the state. >> here is the statement from james ray. you called him jimmy. i am shocked and saddened by the tragedy that occurred at spiritual warrior. i wish to express my deepest condolences to the families and friends of those who lost their

lives. there are so many more questions and answers i believe it inappropriate to comment further. so james ray did not give any interviews? >> no. he did not give interviews. you were talking about stress and something else that hasn't been brought out. these people were on a 36-hour fast before this came about. they had a light breakfast that morning but that's the only meal they had had in over 36 hours before going into this structure. >> okay. we'll continue to talk about this. we'll bring that up, the fast. we'll take your calls as well, 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. two died at a spiritual cleansing in arizona. they were in what is called a sweat lodge. we will find out more from our expert what it is like in there. we are taking your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. patrick is with us in new york. patrick your comment or question? >> caller: i was a wilderness information specialist and firefighter in sedona. i believe this is criminal negligence. this and other medicine wheel experiences basically exploit the spiritually inclined with high fees and in this case it is unacceptable. >> fred tece, criminal negligence, would you go that far? >> based on what i'm seeing in the pictures and hearing from

gentlemen such as your caller, i would say it is a real possibility. >> let's go back to joseph brushac. up to $9,000 to go through this. do people normally bay to do this? >> when i wrote that book in 1993 i was upset because i heard people were getting $500 a person to lead sweats, nonnative people. you don't pay. it is done for the health and well being of the community and the people you care about. it is spiritual capitalism at its worst. >> wow. nine grand. let me ask you one other question that was brought up before the break about fasting. lynn mentioned a 36-hour fast prior to? >> generally you would fast the day of the sweat. but fasting that long ahead of time and then eating before you go in the sweat, that is not the thing to do to have your system prepared. may i read one line from my

book. people need to realize that involvement in a sweat lodge not to mention leading a sweat is not something to be taken lightly. >> tell us about that. how hot is it? i understand it is dark. you can't see your hand in front of your face. >> it is very hot. it is enclosed space. it is covered with natural materials not tarp or plastics. there is air circulation. the stones are heated until they are red hot. if you are wearing metal the metal will burn you. it is extremely hot. when the water is poured the steam that rises is hotter than the hottest sauna. but, again, people are prepared. not crammed in with 50 or 60 other people in a claustrophobic

situation. >> how long are you in there? what is the norm? >> it seems excessive. normally when the lodge door is open the air comes in. more rocks may be brought in. but if you need to go out you can leave. so something going on for a couple of hours with that many stones of that size, i think the temperature must have been intense and beyond that that would be experienced even in lakota sweat lodges which are very hot. >> have you ever had someone in distress? >> yes. i had someone whose face was turning red and we went outside immediately i. was a friend of my son. an intimate family friend. he was a football player and athlete i could tell he wasn't feeling well so we stopped the sweat. >> you weren't trying to monitor 50 or 60 people. >> no. not at all. >> thanks for your expertise,

joseph and fred and lynn. coming up, a horrifying accident. a man hours away from getting married shoots and kills his live-in fiance. thought she was an intruder.

well, a 13-year-old girl propositioned online. she tells mom about it

thankfully. the suspect they arrested is the little girl's estranged father. unbelievable. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. i couldn't imagine the unimaginable grief in this story. a man hours away from his wedding apparently thinks he sees an intruder in the middle of the night. pulls out his gun and shoots. that intruder was his live-in fiance. nancy dinsmore was killed. john tabot has to plan her funeral. it appears to be a tragic accident. they are waiting for forensic results. we take your calls. 1-877-tell-hln. fred tecce, steve rogers, detective lieutenant in nuttily, new jersey. also with us dr. linda young. linda, i have to start with you on a human level. >> okay. >> how does someone deal with this? you are hours away from getting married and you accidentally

shoot and kill your soon to be wife? >> well the grief in combination with the zbrilt to be unfathomable. i don't think any of us can imagine what this guy is going through. exponentially worse trauma than one or the other alone. for him to have her die at his own and in the process of hoping to save her with the wedding so close, i can't imagine what he goes through. he may be traumatized for the rest of his life. >> linda, i will stay with you. there were break-ins in the community so maybe he was on edge. does that sound rational, but to be that quick with getting your gun and shooting without identifying to make sure? >> i do know that when people are on edge they may become hypervigilant. i don't know whether he was sleeping lightly or sleeping at all or whether she was in bed

with him or not. people can have hair trigger reactions to things with horrible, horrible consequences. i don't have enough information to know what kind of -- whether he had break-ins before, whether he had used his gun before. what does come to my attention is he had a gun with ready access and didn't get to see the height or face or anyone say a name or who is there. yes, people can have hair trigger reactions but it does point to the idea that we need to be careful about having guns in the home and also about whether it's possible to have anyone be safe when there are so many things going on in a neighborhood and we don't know how to proceed. >> you hit on it. there are so many questions we need answers for. let's go to steve rogers. how do you investigate this story to make sure it was an accident? >> this is tough for the

investigating officers in a sense we are almost feeling like we are making the victim feel like a criminal suspect. we have to answer tough questions. is there a history of domestic violence? is there an insurance policy? how close range was the gun fired? these are questions that need to be answered to totally clear this individual from any wrongdoing as far as a criminal act is concerned. so as the individual before me said, getting up and shooting someone without at least yelling who are you? that is pretty tough. >> fred, i know it is early here. a former prosecutor, criminal charges, are they possible or is it way too early? >> they are always, mike, possible. you have dedicated men and women who conduct an investigation and bring it to the prosecutor and we look at all the facts, all the evidence.

criminal prosecution is always a possibility particularly when there has been a shooting. this looks like a terrible, terrible tragedy. >> yeah. exa exactly. jacquelin is with us in nebraska. >> caller: i lay-in the bed with my husband every night and i feel that every time i wake up i'm going to look to see he is in the bed with me. i wonder did that man have a gun under his pillow? surely he had to feel if his wife was in the bed beside him. i can't see someone getting up and shooting. without noticing. >> a lot of people have that question. we will hit that. we will talk to steve after the break. take more of your calls, comments, questions, 1-877-tell-hln. @@@@@@@@

welcome back. i don't know where to begin with a story like this. a father in lancaster county, pennsylvania, accused of tracking down his young daughter on facebook and propositions her for sex. he hadn't had contact for ten years. she is 13. police say he is trying to get her to perform sex acts. the young girl didn't know what he was talking about. she had to look it up. the guy sent messages. here is the message, gets you more, love, bad daddy.

than thankfully he has been arrested. he shares the victim's last name so we don't want to put his name out there. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining me to talk about this, dr. linda young, psychologist and a cyberspace attorney who specializes in protecting children from sex crimes. linda, how sick is this? you are going to reconnect with your daughter for sex? >> it is about the most heinous crime i can think of. it is absolutely pathetic, as you said. she can be traumatized for a long time as a result of this. i'm so glad she did the right thing which is go right to her mother and let her know what is going on. it is the most horrendous thing i can think of. >> it is her own father. where do we begin to help her

get through this. >> i have no idea what her mother has told her about her father, why they were estranged in the first place. it is the biggest breach of trust there is regarding sexuality. for the first time to allow her to have trust and know where the boundaries are with her own sexuality is going to be a tall order. i hope she is working with someone to process this. it is far too much especially for a 13-year-old at the age of puberty to fathom what is going on. thinking about what it means to trust a man again is going to be huge. >> perry, they got him on a sting operation. girl thames mom, mom calls police. help us out here as authorities work to try and nail guys like this. how does it go from there? >> if a case like this happens and the child reports it to her mom, which is a wonderful thing to have a mother that

trustworthy or to the police directly, generally the police will take over the identity to make sure there is a crime they can charge. sting operations have been fabulous. the attorney general in pennsylvania has been up on this and the prosecutors are as well. without their help clearly this wouldn't have happened. this man deserves at least to spend the rest of his life behind bars. >> punishment, what do you think he is going to get? how many years. >> my guess is about eight years. maybe more than that. i don't know what else is involved. i don't know if there are images or just the sexual solicitation. this is a man who has done a horrendous thing. we have seen a lot of internet sexual predators, but i have never seen anything quite this bad intentionally targeting someone who is his own daughter. >> i'm going to read a facebook comment. all of a sudden he got this urge. someone should be looking at his

past more closely. he has been sick for a very long time. perry, don't you think the odds are he has targeted other young girls in the past? >> yes. when someone uses the internet to target kids they target many. this was a special reason. this was his daughter. my guess is this is not the first and maybe behind the parents separating in the first place. >> linda, do you agree with that assessment? >> i do. >> there have been issues in the past. >> i do agree with that. i agree with perry he should get a very, very long sentence because chances are this would not be the last time. the recidivism in this situation is high. a person with that prediliction doesn't change overnight. >> we are so thankful the young girl told mom.

>> it is highly unusual. kids don't tell parents. they are afraid the parents will turn off the internet or they may have posted a picture. for the daughter to trust the mom enough to tell her and the mother to know who to call. the internet crimes task force can be found easily. if you suspect your kids are communicating with adults for purposes of sex, call your local cops. make sure you report it. if you don't, maybe your child is safe, somebody else's won't be. >> linda, let's talk about this young girl. that shows incredible strength. >> it does. >> she has the wherewithal to tell mom. >> it says something about perhaps what a great job her mother was doing in raising someone who would trust her when something dangerous came along and get off the internet as a result and talk to her about something that a lot of adults

would not be able to talk about. for a 13-year-old, applaud her mother and her for the strength to do the right thing. >> authorities as well to nab this guy. we take your comments, questions on this as we continue the conversation. call in. 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. again, this story so heinous. thankfully the guy was caught. he hadn't seen his daughter -- she was 3 the last time he saw her. ten years later, she was 13, tracks her down and propositions her for sex. tracks her down on facebook. >> caller: hi, mike. thank you so much for taking my call. i'm a big fan of your show. >> thanks. >> caller: this subject is near to me because i am a victim of child sexual abuse. growing up i feel until we do something more other than what we are doing right now by raising awareness just like we teach our children about drugs and alcohol. unless we put the same type of awareness out there so our kids know the possibility that this can happen to them.

when i was being abused because nobody said nothing i didn't tell. i think we have to put the taboo aside and we know this exists. our children are being molested and sexually abused every ten seconds. that is not good enough. >> perry, are our kids being targeted more than ever? >> i think they are. kids expressing their new sexuality or playing at being a tough kid online will share too much information. they may pose in a naked picture, a sexual picture or say things in a flirtatious way and the adults who meet them take them up on it. i have created a cyberarmy of moms called wired moms. if we can get ajwoa and others to do something we can say not

with my kids. >> linda, do some think they can be flirtation? >> it is natural at 13 you think you are immortal, invincible. the main thing to think about is your budding sexuality is coming out. it is natural especially behind that extra curtain, that screen, to express different identities especially your sexual identity online and go too far. the most important thing is parents and caregivers to talk with kids about a range of questions. when parents are afraid to talk about sexuality. not saying no, this is wrong, yes, this is right. to answer tough questions about relationships, your changing body, who has the right to touch and not to touch you and how to feel good about your sexuality are so important in families.

it starts in the home talking about these tough subjects. >> angela is with us in arizona. your thoughts here. >> caller: hi. >> hey. >> caller: thank you so much for taking the call. >> yeah. >> caller: i just wanted to understand why it is that these actual sex offenders are not having harsher punishment? to me like the incident with the dad on the internet, the incident with the guy in california who had the little girl for 18 years and the polanski situation, these men cannot be rehabilitated. i feel it is almost just as kind of i think naive of us to believe you can actually change someone's sexual attraction to another being. i'm a heterosexual female. i'm not attracted to another

woman. you can't make a homosexual person be attracted to the opposite sex. >> you talked about recidivism and repeat offenders. law enforcement is having to deal with that. a public is crying out to say do something. get guys like this father off the streets and make sure he stays off the streets, right? >> absolutely right. the jails are overcrowded. the prisons are overcrowded. people are getting off early for good behavior. people can exhibit good behavior in prison and can come out and not changed their mindset to stop between a stimulus and response. they may always have the thoughts. the ability to pause before you act on the thoughts is a huge undertaking for a sexual predator. >> perry, as you fight the fight through wired moms and all the

work. law enforcement gets that. do parents understand it is dangerous out there and we have to teach our kids about internet safety on all fronts? >> yeah. i think the parents get there is a risk out there and the kids do, too. the parents don't know. they understand it is a risk but tell me what to do. there is a new computer game out of canada called sidney safe seeker teaching kids about different category ploys. measures their vulnerability. the kids think it is somebody trying to steal something from their backpack. >> linda, real quick, go ahead. >> i would like to say we need to be aware this is such a rare and unusual case. in most of the situations where young girls are corresponding with sexual predators they know the age of person. they are doing it voluntarily and it feels empowering to them

to talk to an older person who is grooming them around their own desires. the most important thing is if they are being watched at home and know they are cared about and not abused in the home and trust an adult to talk to about their budding sexuality, that is the best thing we can do to pret this. it is not a stranger who is pretending to be 16. >> we have to leave it there. more "prime news" coming up. stay with us.

welcome back to prime news on hln. guess who is op the cover of next month's "playboy." marge simpson. here is a preview from tmz.

a cartoon character. marge simpson at that. "playboy" is helping celebrate "the simpsons" 20th anniversary. an inside story called "the devil of marge simpson." what are subscribers saying to that? i don't buy the magazine, but if i did, i don't know if i'm buying it to look at a cartoon character. 1-877-tell-hln is the phone number. jimmy gelenic is the editor for "playboy." jimmy, what is with the cartoon character on the cover? >> marge simpson is one of the most beloved television icons of all time. it is fit to give her her own cover. it is a split run. subscribers will receive a

victoria secret model. the whole thing with subscribers feeling gyped is not the case. this is a special newsstand item. >> you think it is going to be hot? bringing tongue-in-cheek delivery. >> absolutely. we have had over 500 million press impressions this week. it went from china to india to thailand, america and back. we are looking at a home run. >> homer's home run. kelly, i guess it is working for them? >> yeah. i applaud "playboy" for "a" putting an older woman on the cover. people think it is creepy. it is marge simpson. are we so desensitized to seeing naked women? from heidi montag that maybe

marge simpson is the way to go because it is something different and we've never seen it before. >> i think she raised a very good point. the point is today's newsstand environment you have to create an an event. you have to make people to want to go to the newsstand. it's not necessarily a habit anymore. making everybody go to the newsstand is first and foremost. "playboy" has created the media event for november. >> tonya is with us in indiana. what do you make of this? >> caller: i think this is going to be probably one of the worst sellers in "playboy." kudos to him. his boss is going to be so happy. he gets paid to say that. i think it was a horrible idea. i think it's, you know, inappropriate. >> this is very -- it's fantastic. you know, this is fantastic. i'm so glad you have qualified media experts on cnn who have a profound understanding of the media and newsstand.

thank you. >> let me read the ceo, scott planter saying this. obviously tongue in cheek. obviously. it had never been done. and we hot it would be kind of hip, cool and unusual. kelly, do you find it hip, cool and unusual? >> i do. like i said, the whole cougar trend in hollywood right now is really popular. you've got courtney cox bringing it back. demi moore is making it cool. and marge simpson gets big numbers. everyone's talking about it on the internet right now. she's one of the most iconic females in history. so why fought give it a shot. am i going to be running out to see her naked? am i going to buy a copy of "playboy"? no. but some people may go just to have it as a collector's edition. that's what i think playboy is going for when they talk about an event. >> creating buzz. people are talking about it. again, the guys out there, are buying "playboy," i'm not sure they want to see the cartoon character, but we'll continue the conversation on the other side of the break. how about you guys out there, do you want to see marge?