eseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseseses an 8-year-old girl kidnapped from her bedroom, raped, her throat slashed from ear to ear left for dead. but survived. jennifer shewitt -- to see justice served, almost 20 years later, today is her day. >> i am not a victim but, instead, victorious. >> miraculously, a suspect has been arrested and now jennifer is encouraging other women to take a stand and fight. we also have this, 6-year-old boy, busted look that cute little guy he brought a boy scout camping utensil to school. suspended. the board has considered

shipping him off to reform school 45 days. this little guy loves school so much takes it so seriously he sometimes shows up in a suit and tie. you send the young troublemakers to reform school not a cute innocent kid like that. want to hear from you on this one. call in 1-877-tell-hln's the phone number or e-mail me or send us a text. start your message with the word "prime." your chance to be heard. welcome once again this is "prime news." what an incredible story of justice served, of bravery. this hour, we honor the bravery of a young woman who fought for herself and about 20 years later coming out victorious. here's what we know. august 10th, 1990 jennifer shewitt, 8 years old kidnapped from her bedroom in texas, raped, her throat slashed from ear to err a, left for dead found lying in a field laying there 12 hours. just this morning a suspect was

arrested in the case, authorities say they used dna and other forensic testing to find dennis bradford in little rock, arkansas. today, jennifer schuett had the chance to tell her story. >> throughout this journey i've had two main goals and they were to find the man who kidnapped, sexually assaulted and attempted to murder me 19 years ago so that he could not hurt anyone else. and, to use my voice in telling my story to as many people as i possibly could over the years in hopes that i may encourage other victims of violent crime to stand up and speak out against criminals. today, i can say very proudly that i have accomplished both of these goals. >> what a day. what a brave young woman. joining me to talk about this

sharon manchow reporter for our alf indicate khou following this story stacey kaiser our sky co therapist and laura pearly forensic dna expert. stacey, i have to start with you, the strength of this young woman, how do you take on that mind-set at the age of 8 not to be victim but as she puts it to be strong survivor and today is her day as she puts it a day to be victorious? >> i mean i can't even imagine a more powerless experience to be raped as a young girl and left for dead. here is somebody who must not only have inner strength but undoubtedly the support of her family so she could continue to be strong through this whole journey. >> she's been incredible. to sharon min chao. how did they find this guy? what do we know about the arrest and how it finally went down? >> the arrest happened about 6:15 this morning in north little rock. about a year and a half ago it was a cold case a. local police officer from the dick kinson

police department a sush here in houston got the case and resubmitted evidence found near the scene, her underwear, clothing, men's underwear. new advancements in dna testing allowed the smallest amounts of biological evidence to be used. the match came back in codis the suspect now living in arkansas had been serving time for a previous case in 1996 for kidnapping a woman, raping her and slitting her throat. as you can see, the m.o. is strikingly similar. and so that match came back and today he was arrested. arrested with his wife in the car as he drove to work this morning. >> wow. let's go to laura pearly. what has changed with dna dna testing to where this could take place, what new technology do we have now. >> the technologies today compared to say even 15 years ago are much more sensitive, mo robust and, with this much smaller or even degraded stain, they can get sufficient evidence to compare, make a match, and

determine that, in fact this rethe same. >> let's go back to sharon. i've got to go back to the alleged attacker in this case. so you're saying -- are there other cases they're looking at now? i mean, what is his rap sheet as we look back at this guy? >> he's got that 1996 the conviction for that rape obviously wanted in this one and has a previous one for soliciting a prostitute. beyond that minor traffic violations. he was living in the same city at the time as that little girl and has been in arkansas for the last seven or eight years. working as a welder there. >> okay. you look back at this crime. and what has gone on since that time, sharon, let me say with you, what has, for 19 years, i mean from the age of 8 to now 27 jennifer schuett has continued to fight. what has she done to keep this case alive and be an inspiration to others? >> she has a website called

justiceforjennifer.com and encourages folks to check in there and that's why she spoke today at the press conference because she wanted others who might be in her situation to find the courage to stand up as well. there is you know an interesting note about all of this. when her throat was slashed, she wasn't able to speak for days. but, she was 8 old enough to write and from her hospital bed wrote notes to her mother who gave them to detectives to try and help solve this case. she was still in a hospital room when she helped make that sketch, which i think you are able to see and even you know all these years later, if you put that sketch side by side with the driver's license photo of the suspect it is stunningly similar. very, very strong young woman and not just her but her family, very involved. her grandfather, for the last 19 years, every month would stop a police officer or go down to the police department and say, hey, what are you guys doing on my granddaughter's case. >> wow. that's what it takes sometimes you have to fight to justice. we'll take a quick break. i want to read a facebook

comment as we go to it break from danielle writing this she is inspiration and proof life does go on and sometimes justice is truly served. we, again, honor the brave heart of jennifer schuett on this day and want to hear from you. the number: 1-877-tell-hln. >> my boyfriend jonathan, my amazing --

welcome back to "prime news" on hln bringing you again this incredible story of justice finally served. jennifer schuett was raped her throat was slit from ear to ear. this is her today, the crime took place almost 20 years ago when she was just 8 years old. but she continued to fight.

she -- a lot of people a lot of victims don't want their name out there, we understand that but she put her name out there. she thought it would help find the person who did this to her. again, today is her day. want to listen to more of what she had to say as she is telling a lot of people victims out there, never give up. >> i hope that my case will remain as a reminder to all victims of violent crime to never give up hope in seeking justice, no matter how long it may take or how hard it may be. with determination and by using your voice to speak out, you are capable of anything. >> so well put. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln is the phone number. we have with us laura pearly forensic dna expert talking about how they cracked this case kang also with us stacey kaiser our psychotherapist. this is one-of-a-kind bravery when we talk about someone from

age 8 until now to fight this fight, unwavering? >> it is one-of-a-kind bravery and also one-of-a-kind perseverance. most of us play into the victim piece and continue to be victimized not speaking out. i think she really found her power taking charge of her life and continuing to pursue this and now, look she's victorious. >> and let me pick up this. as she recounted her story through the years saying this that she wanted to remember everything. i always wanted to remember everything, talking about the crime, which is amazing right there, so i could find the person that did this. if i had blocked this out of my memory, the investigation would not have come this far. i am a fighter. stacey, how many people have you dealt with like this that take this stance, this type of stance? >> i have worked with people who are traumatized and victimized all the time and this is very rare and unusual. most people want to try and move on and put it behind them. this is a very unique girl. >> yeah exactly. we're not -- we highlight her to

celebrate her, this isn't to demean anybody else who doesn't want their name out there and wants to put it behind them. that's certainly the natural reaction r. but on the flip side of that, we certainly do celebrate jennifer's bravery and what it's led to today. laura, when you talk about cracking a case like this, how important is it to have someone like jennifer on your side trying to crack a case like this? >> well i think certainly she's admirable in terms of what she's done but i think really this case speaks to the power of the convicted felon databasing because without that they wouldn't have been able to make a comparison to the materials found at the crime scene and this really speaks to the power of being able to have more -- more than just local investigation but being able to compare evidentiary material to a national database and ultimately solve a crime. >> stephanie with us from kentucky go, ahead. >> caller: hi, mike. i love your show. >> thanks, stephanie. >> >> caller: your other lady

there said his criminal past he did the same exact crime in '96 and i'm just wondering what's this guy on his way to work, how come he's not in jail? just like phillip garudo on the streets. why isn't he in jail? >> i think today is the day we are amazed and so proud of jennifer schuett but as we continue to follow this story we'll look back. he did allegedly what he did her in 1990. 1996 is when the other crime took place so. we wonder how is a guy like this let out. we'll continue to follow that. guys, we have to leave it there. laura, stacey we appreciate. again, jennifer schuh wet, we honor her and her perseverance on this day. coming up a 6-year-old suspended from school for bringing an eating utensil to school a combo knife fork, spoon from cub scouts. the school has a zero tolerance

policy. this little guy could be facing 45 days in reform school? for the little cub scout utensil there? what do you think of that? call in 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln, a 6-year-old boy from delaware so proud so, ex skited about joining the cub scouts he brings his new camping utensil to school. all right, a combo deal knife,

fork, spoon, all in one. wants to use it to eat his lunch. but because of a zero tolerance policy at his school he is suspended and the school board is considering putting him in reform school 45 days. look at that little guy. mom says he takes school so seriously sometimes wears a suit and tie. all right, here se dressed in it. sunday best, his finest for an interview on the cbs "early show" here se. >> i definitely agree with them that they shouldn't bring dangerous weapons to school. but, i shouldn't -- i don't think that the punishment should be this bad. >> i love it he's in indignant his own best advocate. maybe book him as one of our lawyers one of these days. anyway, what do you think of this? little zachary, come on, no way a little guy like that should go to reform school. call in 1-877-tell-hln. joining me to talk about welcome back dom jiadano also ken trump

from the national school safety and security services in cleveland, ohio. ken, i'll start with you. yes, kids need to be safe but a little common sense here don't you think? >> most school administrators strive for firm, fair discipline applied in good sense but in some of these cases as in higher profile cases like this seems they are missing part of the equation. >> exactly. dom, your thoughts on this. >> mike, i interviewed the mom and we recounted delaware actually passed a law to stop this silliness but involves expulsions when a grandmom put a knife alongs side a cake the teacher cut the cake and served third graders and apparently reported the grandmom to the authorities. >> help us understand, why does this happen, come on, these are smart people, at least we hope.

what's going on here. >> what happened here? >> because of columbine we started having zero tolerance and there are people out there, maybe there they are right there are by as towards racial or other characteristics of kids so we will enforce the same punishment when a kid didn't mean to do this an honor student, a very good kid, as we would the kid who does mean to bring something to school. >> here's the policy from the school. regardless of possessor's intent any unauthorized possession of an instrument which is readily capable of causing serious physical injury or death and that leads to, again, first offense parent-guardian notification and conference. here, obviously we're seeing possible 45 days in reform school for little zak rooe. ken, back to you on this one. when is zero tolerance, when does it work us for, in what cases do we absolutely need it? >> well, i think administrators need to be able to administer consequences and the children

should get consequences but different from a 6-year-old boyscout with a utensil versus someone who is 16 years old with a dozen -- half dozen knifes planning to attack students and teachers. you have to look at the totality of circumstances, the history of the student age appropriateness and facts and context of each individual case. >> well put. very well put there. let's get some calls in and see what of the folks are saying. karen from california, your thoughts here? >> caller: yes. i think that the situation is being candy-coated. i'm sure there's more to the story than what's being told and i'm sure that the school can't say anything because the little boy is a minor. >> are you -- so little zachary -- let me ask you, you are seeing little zachary here and suspicious of him, karen? >> caller: i'm a mother of five sons who are grown and now i have 12 grandchildren. i've gone to soccer games and seen sweet little 5-year-olds pick up a stick and want to stab

somebody be with it. i've seen that happen. >> okay. dom, you want in here you? talked tot mom. >> yeah, mike. >> right? >> i interviewed the mom. i read the story as thoroughly as everything i've seen and dealt with local tv. there is nothing more here. this kid is not doing anything there is nothing alt tearior. we have to make a decision do we want people paid a hundred grand or 150,000 a year administrators to make good decisions and give them the discretion and tools or comforted by something i think is increasingly silly called zero tolerance. >> let me read this real quick. we made calls to the school and didn't a call back. this a school board member. politically zero tolerance everybody clamors for until we start to realize how hard it can be. the policy, of course needs additional flexibility. i think we can agree with that. we'll pick up the conversation on the other side of the break. what do you think, little zachary there, he is a menace? reform school? call 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. i'm sure you're with me and want help understanding this. here's what we have a man kills his ex-girlfriend, murders her with her 7-year-old daughter a

few feet away so we have a young girl without a mom and then what's he do turns the gun on himself and tries to kill himself, shoots himself in the face with a shotgun but he lives, as you see disfigured convicted and sent to prison. now the state of wisconsin says it will have of to pay for his reconstructive surgeries shot himself, killed the ex-girlfriend leaves a little girl without a mom yet the taxpayers will have to pay for his surgeries. they say it is medically necessary. he eats his food pureed. otherwise, what do you think? should taxpayers foot the bill? 1-877-tell-hln is the number. let's bring in our lawyers, one of a couple cases we'll look at today. welcome back joe findley. also with us doug burns. doug, i'll start you with, they are saying medically necessary. but i'm sure a lot of viewers like me wait a minute seven years later now all of a sudden is medically necessary? if he's going to die without the surgery, be obviously you get him the surgery but just for

comfort, i say let him tough it out and be a daily reminder what he did to sam verby. your thoughts on this. >> not only the seven-year delay but the point you are inherently making number one he's not the victim or a victim, mike and, number two he inflicted the gunshot wound on himself. however, having said that and reading my good friend and colleague drew's mind, the fact of the matter is the legal balancing test is is it medically necessary or extravagant waste of taxpayer money? that depends on the specific medical facts. >> okay. and we're not privy at this point but, drew before you comment on this i'll ask you why aren't we privy to details to see exactly why he needs the surgery and it's medically necessary. >> he still has rights to medical privacy issues like anybody else does. this is not unlike we have heard crazy stories of people on death row receiving chemotherapy having heart surgery at the

taxpayers' expense deemed medically necessary even though they are scheduled at some point to die at the hands of the state, they are still getting that medical assistance. this is really no different than or any other inmate receiving medical assistance. >> let me read a facebook, a ton of them, drew i'll send it you to and you can directly respond from christine, let him remain disfigured. let him live with his scars. what do you say to christine? again there are a ton of comments like that. drew go-ahead, drew. >> what i say again our jails are filled with people that are sick and even right now getting elderly. you know that's one of the crises in this country we've given out such lengthy sentences particularly in federal drug cases, we are paying for elderly inmates. that crisis goes beyond him and to what do we do with these elderly inmates. they require much more costly medical care than this one case requires. >> okay. let's get a call in holly from oklahoma. your thoughts here? >> caller: hi mike.

how are you? >> good. >> caller: good to talk to you just love you. listen, this is ridridiculous. the man shot two people okay. then you attempted to shoot himself. now, come on. you know okay just off the top i could use some botox, i don't know what it to tell you about this is ridiculous. my hard-earned money is going to go to pay for him to fix his face. >> there you go. a lot of people agree with you, holly. you know, we are hashing this out on the legal front. doug, to her point we brought this up in our meeting that what if the daughter had lived, who's paying for her reconstructive surgery. >> excellent point. again, i think everybody starts with the starting point and they're probably right mike that, i mean, this is a self-inflicted wound, number one. not only he is not a victim but he's the perpetrator. but, again, as a lawyer, i have to give you both sides, which is that there's a big, big distinction between, you know purely reconstructive to improve

his appearance versus whether or not, you know he can eat and, so on. i'm certainly not simp sizing with him on any level just giving you the legal landscape. again i think the state is probably taking the position as drew said as horrific as his conduct was by analogy to somebody on death row the fact of the matter, is he needs this surgery just to exist. i don't know whether that's the case or not. in other words, whether he needs it to exist or whether it is somehow to improve his appearance. but, i am not surprised at all that the sentiment coming in from everybody is going to be intensely against it. >> let me a quick statement from the victim's father saying this obviously, he's against the surgery saying he went there on a death wish in the first place and did it to himself. being that he murdered my daughter, i have no sympathy for him. drew, can a family, victim's family fight this at all or completely out of the mix and this is straight up whether or not it's medically necessary? >> i don't think this fits into victims' rights legislation. what you are really touching on

when somebody is getting ready to be released on parole for example, most states have a statute whereby the victim's family is notified so they can share their input on that subject. i don't think this falls into that category. this is just like should he and the other inmates get turkey on thanksgiving no. one's going to have an input. it may tick a lot of people off but it is going to happen every thanksgiving. >> let's get another call and see if sherry is ticked off shire ree in arkansas. go ahead. >> caller: that's pitiful. he don't think we should pay to get his face fixed. he killed that little girl? hell no, no we shouldn't pay to fix his face. >> we know where we stand on this, a lot of folks calling in just the imagery of a 7-year-old girl watching this take place a dad without a mom. and that's where we get some of the fire on this one. i'll introduce our next topic we'll continue after the break. breathalyzers at school. this is near boston, a school considering breathalyzers during

regular hours. they've had 7 to 10 alcohol-related incidents per school year and only test if they suspect alcohol use. real quick, drew, good or bad idea? >> i just think it's invasive. i don't send my kids to school to be suckject to having themselves take breathalyzer tests or anything else invasive to their privacy. i think it's a step too far. i'm not in favor of it. >> step too far. doug your thoughts. >> it raises an interesting ish pseudo school searches get a special exception to the fourth amendment and the fact of the matter is there have been cases that say they do. he ten to agree i wouldn't necessarily in favor of it. >> let's see the folks are saying, i don't think it's a bad idea if you are getting thee incidents, if they are boozing it up maybe they have an early drinking problem we need to address. call in, 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we're talking about possibly using breathalyzers at school as unerage drinking control? this school near boston foxboro high school have had 7 to 10 alcohol-related incident. if you're with me, call in foenz foenz 1-877-tell-hln is the number. we're talking about kids and if we can ferret out they are

drinking while at school i think it would be good to find out and let the parents know and get them help they need. drew, where am i off on this one, not on solid legal ground, do we start there? >> i'm always going to fall back to, you know, law enforcement is trained for what we call probable determination that is conducting field sobriety test to see if somebody is showing behavior consistent with being under the influence of alcohol. he don't think school teachers are. on the flip side i go from lawyer to parent to concerned citizen which is we're falling behind in math and sciences why don't we educate our kids not getting out-distanced by other countries around the world. i think that is a higher priority our friends in boston should think about. >> i think we are at a crisis point if a kid is going to school boozed up. >> i think it was going on when you and i were growing up by don't think it had to be subject to a breathalyzer test. >> on a privacy front, or legal

front, is the school just going way beyond a line here? >> first of all i'm not sure i am disagreeing with you as much as you think. i read an article -- legally, you guys may remember a case where a girl was searched on an allegation that she was actually dealing out ibuprofen, you remember? >> yes, i do. >> the u.s. supreme court this year threw out that particular search. i think what drew and i may be saying, is you know again we're all in favor. that's why i don't disagree you with combatting underage drinking for sure. just not sure if this is the correct vehicle and i'm not so sure that we want to be having sort of teacher law enforcement. but, again it's a close issue to debate. >> i hear where you are coming from asking a teacher to make that call and obviously they are going to smell alcohol or something to get them to take that step of using a breathalyzer. let's get a call n. kenneth in

texas, your thoughts? >> caller: i think it's horrible. actually, you know if the child has prior offenses alcohol-related offenses they should be tested but testing every student, no it is just outrageous. >> no it's those they suspect some. kid comes to math class and they smell like boostze, what do you do ken? >> breathalyzer him. >> you say it's okay. >> caller: if there is substantial evidence if there is a smell of alcohol, go for it. >> sounds like he spun my way on this one guys. drew legally what can a school do? you've got this kid and you are thinking, oh man, i think he might have had a couple here at lunch, what do we do with him legally where it is safe and we get him some help? >> i think they were take their normal disciplinary measures in-school suspension or detention. i think you need to understand or caller needs to understand these breathalyzer tests are

just not a simple test that doesn't require maintenance. these machines require maintenance, they have to it pass all type of regulatory tests, constantly being handled. people that use them have to be trained. you know these officers go to court and sometimes they're cross-examined for hours about whether or not the machine is working correctly. so, this school board, i think it sounds cool for a school board to sound political and get a few more votes and maybe run for congress or whatever but i don't think they know the complexity of this machine they'll get involved in. >> couple good topics. doug, drew, appreciate it. coming up reality stars jon and kate -- i guess now just kate plus eight grabbing their attorneys and heading to court taking their squabbles before a judge. he's telling them cool it. play nice. and the judge is right. you've got kids here that could be watching this. if not now, at another point. taking your calls on this one at 1-877-tell-hln.

all right. here we go. jon and kate battling over money in court. tmz is reporting that jon has been ordered to return 180 ground in marital funds which kate says he stole one of their joint bank accounts. there's another $55,000 if question. a judge will decide on that later. getting ugly -- well, it is already, face it. the judge actually had to tell them to keep things private. a little late for that. the reality tv stars, let's hash this one out. we'll take your calls by the way 1-877-tell-hln. back with us criminal defense attorney drew findley also carlos diaz from "extra" and lauren macland with us as well psychotherapist. carlos, what went down in court

as far as money the accusation. jon's taken a lot of money and has to return some now. >> the judge said you have to return $180,000 which is big because it basically confirms jon took the money. that was the big money. jon said he didn't take the money, he was due that money and kate has accused him all along taking money the judge has said you've got to give it back by october 26th $180,000 or will be in big trouble a big blow against jon -- >> who's handling the money, carlos? are they supposed to be playing nice and divvying it up 50-50 or touching this at all. >> now that the courts are involved you would imagine the arbitrator involved with this will make sure the money gets back in the joint account somehow. the big question if he has spent that money he has no viable income right now. how is he making money? the new thing that came out today, michael lohan, lindsey's dad, says jon wants to get involved in celebrity boxing to make a buck. that's how crazy this is

getting. >> celebrity boxing with him. that's next? >> yeah uh-huh. >> wow. >> lining up for that, by the way. >> exactly. let me read a statement. this is jon's attorney saying all the attorney on both sides worked very hard, very pleased with the outcome of the proceedings and the arbitration session. we are very hopeful there will soon be a resolution. drew, if you are advising either one, take jon for example what are you telling him right now, how do you begin to settle this thing down make some sense because, again eight kids are involved here. >> number one, you have to make the kids the priority. anybody says the kids were priority whether talking about jon, kate, the tv networks involved, is just completely full of it. what concerns me as an attorney what i would advice him and what i don't understand about this at all, is, you know, when huge civil cases are settled, when there are large judgments, the lawyers involved so often make sure that trust accounts are established so that children can have the money when they need it

wlshgs it be for college or after the age of 21. what concerns me here so much cash is available and there's allegations about jon grabbing it, kate grabbing it. you know, what they should just have the money available they needed to live and the vast majority of this money should have been used to take care of those eight children. >> that's right. >> apparently advantaged how quickly they were born, namely twins then six of them. that didn't take place an borders to me on legal malpractice. >> lauren, how do we get to this point here, it seems to spiteful battling over money, you have eight kids in the middle of all. this i battling over money. you have eight kids in the middle of this. >> you have to understand the factors that pull people apart and bring people together drive people apart in relationship. there is so much focus on he did this and she did that and he

said that and she said that. you need to cut through what is going on to what caused the deterioration of the marriage to begin with. those factors and those wounds and places of bitterness and resentment keep festering more and more as this goes on. they need to find somebody who can help them. even if they go through with their divorce they are going to need some help in how to co-parent with these children. >> you're going to backtrack to what went on during the marriage. we can figure it out. jon feels he was bullied. stood up for himself. kate bossed him around. they are going to work this out after the marriage? >> you have to go back before that. those patterns they played out in their relationship are based on patterns they both brought into the relationship in the

beginning. we replicate what is familiar from childhood. you have to go further back. you say what is the point now if they are not going to be together, but they have to co-parent these children. >> that is a good point. >> yeah. how they relate to each other as parents together or separately is going to have a huge impact on the children. >> we'll take your calls 1-877-tell-hln.

>> an 8-year-old girl kidnapped from bherm raped her throat slit from ear to ear but survived. jennifer shuett never gave up.

20 years later she has her day. >> i am not a victim, but instead victorious. >> a suspect has been arrested and now jennifer is encouraging other women to take a stand and fight. plus this. a man accused of posing as a marine lying about it, saying he escaped death in a roadside bombing in iraq survived the 9/11 attacks at the pentagon. the fbi says it is a lie. he fooled politicians. he campaigned for people. it is a disgrace to the real heroes out there. who does this? we'll take your calls 1-877-tell-hln is the number. your e-mails welcome as well cnn.com/primenews. shoot a text at hlntv. start your message with the word prime. it is your chance to be heard. this is hour number two of "prime news." two lives cut short.

a man and woman dead after sitting for hours in a sweat lodge in arizona and today we continue to follow this. this is word this place didn't have the necessary building permit. people paid up to ten grand to attend this retreat hosted by james arthur ray who helped write the book "the secret." 19 people ended up hospitalized some extremely sick. dehydrated. we heard they were fasting. kidney failure here. one person in critical condition. we take your calls on this one. joining us to talk about it criminal defense attorney drew finley and back with us, lynn lemaster, ed tofr of " prescottnews.com. still one person critical? >> yes. one person in critical.

one person in fair condition. one patient is in good condition and one person has within released. >> lynn do we have specifics what they went through? we mentioned kidney failure dehydration. anything to add to that? >> that is what i'm hearing. there isn't anything to add. they are being very careful with the patients' confidentially. tom mcfeely the cousin of kirby brown. kirby tragically lost her life. how is the family doing right now? >> we are doing as well as can be expected. it is a very difficult time. we have an extended period of grieving between a week and a half between the day this horrible incident happened and the day we put kirby to rest on saturday. it is important to remember her, support one another and remember her life and she taught us how

to live. we are trying to make the best of it. we meet every night. i meet with her immediate family and we talk about what we need to do to heal. >> tom what was she like? >> she was indescribable. there are no a adjectives to describe kirby. she loved life. she was incredibly active. she had more energy and a thirst for life. there was, you know i would say she was the kindest, most genuine person i know except i know both of her parents so i guess i would put her third. >> you as a family tom, what questions do you have? the questions we have, was this her first time? did she know what she was getting into in. >> she had done other events with mr. ray. this had more of a physical

aspect. family members attended these other events. this one she went to alone. we assumed like all the 60 plus people who went to this event that their safety was a top priority to the event organizers. >> you are talking to other family members of people who were there? >> yes. we'd like to talk to every person who attended the event. the family had private conversations with some people who did attend the event. whenever you get answers you get more questions. we have serious questions about what occurred not only in the sweat lodge but the moment they arrived to the moment they entered the sweat lodge. >> kirby knew this might be physically grueling? >> the idea of the whole retreat was to sort of identify and perhaps push your boundaries a little bit. that idea is fine as long as

medical professionals are consults as long as they are on site, as long as every case scenario is imagined and prepared for as all top corporations do as any responsible organization that would do this kind of thing we would think would do as well. >> lynn, from what we know, there was one nurse onhand for the 55 to 65 people? >> yes. just one nurse. >> okay. let me go to our attorney, drew, if you have that many people going through a physically strenuous thing you need more medical personnel? >> you can rest assured that mr. ray has assets and his organization is insured. there are going to be a mass of

lawsuits injuries and loss of life that is a slam dunk. the next issue is there criminal culpability. even though there wasn't intentional acts did the recklessness arise to criminal behavior. that is very, very difficult. we are going to have to look at a disco that goes on fire in rhode island whether or not certain ordinances were violated requirements as to fire codes, safety hazards were adhered to. >> we will talk about that. did they have a permit? do they need a permit? what size was the sweat lodge for 55 to 65 people and we take your calls 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. tragedy taking place on a spiritual retreat. a sweat lodge in sedona arizona. two people died, 19 ended up going to the hospital. one is in critical condition. we have tom mcfeeley with us the cousin of kirby brown who lost her life. what is your question? whether or not medical personnel was there? the size of the sweat lodge. what do you want to know from authorities. >> we want to know everything that happened at this retreat. we want to understand the complete agenda. we want to know everybody who attended this event and how to reach them. the people who atpdtended this

event can't give us good answers. >> our thoughts and prayers are with you and your family as you go through the loss of kirby brown. we have our attorney drew and lynn lemaster. did they have a permit to operate a sweat lodge? >> no they did not. when we were first in our press conference with the sheriff we were told they didn't need one. today i have spoken to the building inspector for the county and he actually went and researched it for me and he said any structure greater than 120 square feet needed a billion permit even if it is a temporary structure. >> the size of this 415 square feet? >> yes. >> okay. a couple of things there, drew. 415 square feet. 20 by 20. not very big for 55 to 65

people. a permit somebody is in trouble again without having the proper permit. >> i think that is the issue. if you want to call it historical, native american history, it is self-serving. that is where they are going to run into trouble here and that is what we just heard. no matter what you want to call it, it is a building. if it is determined it was a building it is going to have to adhere to building code requirements. if it didn't when we are dealing with really high temperatures you can see negligence rise to such an issue people need to lawyer up on potential criminal issues. >> kim is with us in virginia. kim, have you experienced sweat lodge? >> caller: yes. several times. >> what do you make of this? 55 to 65 people too many. >> caller: way too many.

they are meant to be small intimate gatherings for prayers and healing. it is intensely hot. typically we were doing a sweat with six to seven people and between rounds of the stones going in, the flaps were open. you would get fresh air and you could leave the lodge any time you were feeling overwhelmed by the heat. >> kim, how hot? can you put it into words. >> caller: very, very. you didn't want to wear any jewelry. you made sure your glasses were off. our leader who is native american would double check you. >> to be clear this is not a sauna. this is not a hot jacuzzi. it is more intense than that? >> caller: very, very intensely hot. >> thanks for your perspective. lynn lemaster, drew finley and our caller kim. we love to honor heroes on this

show. this guy the fbi says he is not one of them. posed as one. said he was an iraq war vet. even stumped for politicians. turns out it was all a lie.

welcome back. this one makes me sick. the fbi says a man posed as a

marine, made up stories about what a hero he was. investigators say richard strandlof lied about surviving a roadside bomb. he claimed he survived the 9/11 attacks. he spoke at rallies and started an outreach group. strandlof was arrested on friday. we'll take your calls. 1-877-tell-hln. we welcome back doug verns. ryan galucci, a spokesman for amvets. stazy kaiser. stacy, who does this? what would possess someone to do this? >> this is somebody who has low self-esteem. he doesn't feel like he has anything to offer the world so he lies to make up a story. >> no crisis of conscience here?

>> i think he got wrapped up. he talks about mental illness. this is not where this is coming from. this is pure attention seeking behavior. ryan, let me go to you. an iraq war veteran. how hard do you take this imposter like this. your reaction and other vets you talk to? >> when we first learned about this last spring the veterans community was sad and disappointed and angry as to why somebody would perpetrate a lie like this. >> let's get doug burns in on this. how serious is this crime? it is stolen valor right? >> yes. they have the stolen valor act from 2005 which updated a previous law of medal of honor. it is a misdemeanor. but to answer the previous military person's point i mean i'll give you a positive point there is is prestige and

admiration associated with military accomplishments so if you try to lie about it they made it a federal crime. i was a prosecutor with the federal justice office. lying about prestigious military accomplishments that is a crime. >> let's listen to rick strandlof talking about his reality different from what is reality. >> there are certain aspects of mental illnesses that i have been diagnosed with sometimes i do not know where i basically in what reality i am. whether it is mine or our reality. >> let's go to our psych psychotherapist. >> there's no way. >> let's get a call in. janet in connecticut.

your thoughts. >> caller: hi yes, sir. i'm a marine myself or a veteran. i just did my four years in the marine corps and served in iraq. >> we appreciate your service, janet. >> it is hurtful for myself and other veterans. i can't believe someone would do this. it is obvious he was an imposter. i myself noticed immediately when i saw the picture of him wearing his uniform. he was definitely wearing it wrong. a marine would not do that. we take pride in our uniform which is what we are about, honor, courage and commitment. definitely disappointing. i speak for myself and other veterans. >> we appreciate your service. ryan looking back were there signs and cues we missed? >> oh well there were signs and clues along the way.

that is how he got caught up in the lie. what we heard is at one of the events he was asked you claim you earned the silver star and purple heart. why don't you wear these medaling to speak at our event? he didn't have a valid reason why he didn't possess the medals. it started to raise red flags. one of the things he brought up, when he was asked whether or not he regretted doing anything like this he claimed i didn't benefit personally from this or -- and veterans were actually helped through the work that he did. it is very clear that he benefited personally. he was asked to speak at a number of events. if you want to be active in the veterans community there are ways for nonveterans to become active. amvets has two subordinate organizations for nonveterans.

>> do we have any idea how much money he took in and where that money went? >> not at this point. what is interesting is that he was a vocally opposed to the war in iraq and spoke up for a number of politicians locally. >> we are going to hear this guy stuffing from a politician as a war vet.

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d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. you want help understanding this one. a man kills his ex-girlfriend murders her with her 7-year-old daughter a few feet away. then daryl turns the gun on himself tries to kill himself. shoots himself in the face. he lives. his face is disfigured. now the state of wisconsin says it is going to have to pay for his reconstructive surgeries. he shot himself, killed the ex-girlfriend and leaves the little girl without a mom. the taxpayers have to pay for the surgeries. they say it is medically

necessary. 1-877-tell-hln. let's bring in our lawyers. joins us we welcome back drew finley, criminal defense attorney, doug burns former federal prosecutor. they are saying medically necessary. seven years later and now it is medically necessary. if he is going to die without the surgery you get him the surgery. if this is for comfort, i say let him tough it out and let this be a daily reminder of what he did. >> it is not only the seven-year delay, the point you are inherently making that number one, he is not the victim or a victim, mike. number two he inflicted the gunshot wound on himself. however, having said that and reading my good friend and colleague drew's mind the legal balancing test is it medically necessary or extravagant waste

of taxpayer money. that depends on the specific medical facts. >> drew, but you comment, why aren't we privy to the details exactly why he needs the surgery? >> he still has rights to medical privacy issues just like anybody else does. this is not unlike -- we have heard these crazy stories of people on death row receiving chemotherapy, having heart surgery because it is deemed medically necessary even though they are scheduled to die at the hands of the state. they are getting medical assistance this is no different than that or any other inmate receiving medical assistance. >> let me read a facebook, drew. this is from christine. let him remain disfigured. why should taxpayers hard earned money go to making him look normal. what do you say to christine? go ahead, drew. >> what i say again, our jails

are filled with people that are sick and even right now getting elderly. that is one of the kricrisis in this country. we are paying for elderly inmates. that crisis goes beyond him. elderly inmates require much costly medical care than this one call. >> holly in oklahoma. your thoughts. >> caller: hi, mike how are you? >> good. >> caller: i just love you. this is ridiculous. the man shot two people and attempted too shoot himself. now, come on. okay, just off the top i could use some botox. i don't know what to tell you but this is ridiculous. my hard earned money is going to go to pay for him to fix his face. >> there you go. a lot of people are agreeing with you. we are hashing this out on a legal front.

doug, to her point. what if the daughter had lived? who is paying for her reconstructive surgery. >> excellent point. everybody starts with the starting point this is a self-inflicted wound number one. not only is he not a victim but he is the perpetrator. again as a lawyer i have to give you both sides. there is a big, dig distinction of purely reconstructive to improve his appearance and whether or not he can eat. i'm not sympathizing with him on any level. just giving you the leeland skap.skap -- legal landscape. the fact of the matter is he needs this surgery to exist. i don't know if that is the case. i'm not surprised that the sentiment coming in from

everybody is going to be intensely against it. >> quick statement from the victim's father saying this, he is against the surgery saying he went there on a death wish in the first place. he did it to himself. being he murdered my daughter i have no sympathy. can a victim's family fight this or are they out of the mix and straight up whether it is medically necessary? >> i don't think this fits into victims rights legislation. this is when somebody is getting ready to be released on parole. most states have a statute for families to input on that subject. i don't think this falls into that category. this isn't like should he and the inmates get turkey on thanksgiving. >> sherry in arkansas. go ahead, sherry. >> caller: that's pitiful. no. i don't think we ought to pay to

get his face fixed. hell, no. we shouldn't pay to fix his face. >> a lot of folks calling in. you have to get the imagery of a 7-year-old girl watching this take place. a dad without a daughter. a little girl without a mom. breathaabreathalyzers at school. they are only going to test if they suspect alcohol test. good or bad idea? >> i think it is invasive. i don't send my kids to school to subject themselves to breathalyzers. it is a step too far. >> doug your thoughts? >> it raises an interesting issue. do school search get a special exception to the fourth

amendment. there are cases that say they do. i tend to agree that i wouldn't necessarily be in favor of it. >> i don't think it is a bad idea if you are getting these incidents. if the kids are boozing it up maybe they have a early drinking problem to address. 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news"

on hln. we are talking about possibly using breathalyzers at school. has underage drinking gotten that under control? this school has had seven to ten alcohol related incidents. the two sides are against me. if you are with me, call in. 1-877-tell-hln is the number. we are talking about kids. if we can ferret out if they are drinking at school it would be a good thing to find out. where am i off on this one? am i not on solid legal ground. do we start there? >> i'm always going to fall back to law enforcement is trained for what we call probable cause determination. conducting field sobriety tests to see if behavior is consistent. i don't think school teachers are. i go from lawyer to parent and concerned citizens. we are falling behind in math and sciences. why don't we concentrate on

educating our kids so we are not getting outdistanced. it is a higher priority. >> it is. but i think we are at a crisis point if some kid is going to high school boozed up. >> i think it was going on when you and i were growing up but we didn't have to be subject to breathalyzer test. >> on privacy front legal front, is the school going way beyond. >> first of all. i'm not sure i'm disagreeing with you. something like 11% of all alcohol being drunk is between the ages of 12 and 20. but legally, you guys may remember there was a case where a girl was searched on an allegation she was dealing out ibuprofen. the u.s. supreme court threw out that search.

what drew and i might be saying we are all in favor of combating underage drinking not sure this is the correct vehicle and having teacher law enforcement. it is a close issue to debate. >> i hear where you are coming from, you are asking a teacher to make that call. obviously, they are going to smell alcohol that would get them to take that step. let's get a call. kenneth in texas. your thoughts. >> caller: i think it is horrible. actually, if a child has prior offenses, alcohol-related offenses, but testing every student. no. that is outrageous. >> it is just those they suspect. some kid comes in to math class and smells like booze what do you do? >> breathabreathalyze him. >> it sounds like he spun my way

on this one. legally, what can you do? this kid may have had a couple at lunch. what do we do with them? >> they can take their normal disciplinary measures in-school suspension or detention. what you need to understand, our caller needs to understand these breathalyzer tests are just not a simple test that doesn't require maintenance. these machines require maintenance. they have to pass all type of regulatory test, constantly being handled. people that use them have to be trained. these officers go to court and sometimes are cross examined for hours if the machine is working right. this school board may sound good but i don't know they know the complexity of this machine. >> have to leave it there.

a couple of good topics. an amazing story of survival and hope. an 8-year-old girl kidnapped and raped, her throat slashed from ear to ear but she survived. it looks like justice for her. her perseverance and bravery paying off.

i hope that my case will remain as a reminder to all victims of violent crime to never give up hope in seeking justice no matter how long it may take or how hard it may be. with determination and by using your voice to speak out you are capable of anything. >> that was jennifer shuet.

she was raped at the age of 8. she has been an advocate. august 10 1990, kidnapped from her bedroom, raped, troet slit from here to ear. she was found lying in a field 12 hours later. just this morning a suspect was arrested in her case. authorities say they used dna and other forensic testing to find dennis bradford in little rock, arkansas. he was on his way to work with his wife. we'll take your calls 1-877-tell-hln. joining us my friend and colleague jane velez-mitchell host of "issues with jane velez-mitchell" coming up at the top of the hour. i want to reach facebook comments. this from michelle what a courageous woman. this story gives me the chills. what a brave, brave woman. robin writing this this is an

amazing story. what a rapist did to her at 8 years old is horrific. jane, i'm in awe at the age of 8 she turned the page so quickly and became an advocate and fought and fought. >> she is a total hero. he slit, this man, allegedly arrested slit her throat. she was not supposed to ever be able to speak again. she said as a child i'm going to speak because i want to have a voice so i can give law enforcement the information they need to track this guy down. but imagine the hell she has endured for two decades trying to figure out who is this person who violated her, stealing her from her home raping her, slitting her throat, leaving her to die in a field where she lay for 14 hours before a schoolmate accidentally stumbled upon her

saving her life. she had to live with not knowing except she knew somewhere out there somebody wasn't serving time for a crime he had committed. my question and i want to know this and i'm not a dna expert is if he committed this crime, he was convicted of a similar crime in 1997 so they had his dna. in 1997. why isn't there some kind of national system to line up all the unsolved cold cases, take that dna and compare it with dna of people who are in the system? why did it take 12 more years from his incarceration on another similar case to today? >> excellent point, jane. a lot of people are wondering that. the technology has improved. if the technology improved let's line it up and start testing until we can ferret out criminals like we have in jennifer's case. i want to bring in stacy kaiser.

as we see the pictures of this 8-year-old little girl how do you explain she could turn a fighter. and no offense, it doesn't sound like the psychological help was the difference. she had it in her from the beginning. >> i think she did have it in her from the beginning. and you cannot underestimate the support from her family ongoing. encouraged her advocates as well. and i also want to point out bass i think it's really important, a lot of research that shows that telling your story is actually healing. so this process for her has been good for her. >> yeah it is. it has. and, jane, don't you think this will be an inspiration for others to get the help? and i want to read a quote real quick. this is from jennifer. i will get your take jane. she writes "it's not about me anymore. i know that there are so many little girls out there who have been raped and hurt. you have to fight back." >> we talk about the war on women and i had the lawyers say the other night, there is no war on women. yes, there is.

rape is supposedly some kind a 20-year low. you know how many they had in one year alone 2008? something in the neighborhood of 90,000 rapes. that is an epidemic and a crisis. and the fact is that this young woman is exceptionally brave for standing up, showing her face, speaking out not remaining anonymous in saying i am demanding justice. and all of those women out there who have been victims of any kind of a sexual assault need to ban together and to march on washington, and say, this issue needs to be taken more seriously. this guy that they just arrested for this case in '97, he served four years for a 12-year sentence. four years of a 12-year sentence for a similar crime. >> he did the same thing slit an adult's neck.

tonight, gut-wrenching d-violence spreads across the count row. a 15-year-old boy doused in fuel, so the fire. cops say the blaze was ignited by other teenagers. this young man suffered agonizing burns on 3/4 of his body. police have arrested three kids in this. all might had been a fight over a bicycle? tonight's big issue, what's going on with our teenagers? what's it going to take to change our blood-drenched culture? and kidnapped raped and left for dead -- an 8-year-old girl taken from her bed in the middle of the night. her throat slashed by a rapist. but now nearly 20 years later the monster responsible may finally be brought to justice. jennifer schuett's nightmare had gone unsolved since 1990 but now, thanks to dna cops have finally made an arrest. tonight, the courageous victim

speaks out. also, blood-boiling new details in the caves the alleged drunk driving mom who smashed into a guardrail killing an 11-year-old girl. not only was this lady allegedly boozed up with seven young girls in her car but now one of the passengers claims the driver's very own daughter pleaded with her mom to slow down. instead, the mom allegedly taunted the girl saying "you think this is fast just wait'll we get on the highway." tonight's big issue inside the mind of a drunk driver. plus new developments in the jon and kate divorce drama. it seems we're not the only ones fed up with the gosselins. a judge told the reality couple work it out and focus on the kids. but are they capable of doing anything that's in the best interest of their children? "issues" starts now. >> tonight, a 15-year-old florida boy fights for his life after an unspeakable savage

attack by other teenaged boys. michael brewer is burned over 80% of his body. look at that handsome young boy. police say three juveniles drenched him in rubbing alcohol and then set fire to him. using a lighter. two other boys allegedly kept him from escaping. listen to the victim's broken hearted mother. >> he's got 70% of his body burnt. tell take a long time for him to recover but hopefully the broward sheriff's office will do anything to catch this kid. if anyone knows about this please contact the broward sheriff's office so that we can catch the people who have done this. >> police have already charged five boys in the attack. it happened in an apartment complex near boca raton florida. police heard a few of the teens laughing about it. that's right, laughing, about a boy in such pain from severe burns, doctors had to put him in a medically induced coma.

and they're laughing? they allegedly targeted him because he "snitched" on one of them. >> it's retaliation because he reported somebody stealing his dad's bike. and whether or not odhim money, they deliberately sought him out, poured alcohol on him and set him on fire. >> tonight's big issue, has america turned into one giant lord of the flies? only the cruelest kids survive? are teen boys being indoctrinated into violence by a culture that is saturated in violent imagery? yes, yes, and yes! so what the heck are we going do about it? we're going to debate that and i want to hear from you at home. you better call me. straight out to my outstanding panel. former prosecutor and law professor, wendy murphy. author of "and justice for some." clinical psychologist brenda wade. there she is and we want to hear from you, brenda. we need a shrink on there one.

steve rogers detective/lute from the nutley, new jersey police department. janey weintraub, criminal defense attorney. and jim director of media relations for the broward county sheriff's office. jim, dare we ask what is the motive for this horror? >> the motive was basically revenge, retaliation. this victim was responsible for getting one of these five young suspects arrested for attempting to steal a boycott. and for that they decided to set him on fire. >> the way i understand it correct me if i'm wrong one of these kids allegedly gave him the victim, a video game, and felt he was od$40 and when he didn't get the $40 he said oh, i will steal dad's it's victim's father's bicycle. and this poor child that you're looking at here this handsome 15-year-old boy reported that and he was so scared, he did not

go to school yesterday because he sensed that for being what they call a snitch something bad would happen to him. look at that look at that. that's just the charred remains of his clothing. he ripped his clothing off. he was in such agony and ran to a swimming pool and jumped into a swimming pool. wendy murphy wendy we're setting him on fire. the boy's alleged yelled "he's a snitch, he's a snitch. pour it on him." where do they learn these values? >> where to begin with the list jane? it's not just television it's not just bad parenting it is literally a culture that for a very long time has rewarded boys for being brutes and now we actually live in an even worse society than probably, you know, when these boys were younger. and i'll tell you why we have

never, ever punished juveniles who do grotesque things like this with the kind of severe punishment they deserve. we've always thought, oh well he's only 15 he's only 16 okay, he burned a house down, he tried to kill a kid by lighting his body on fire. let's get him some rehabilitation. >> wendy, wendy, wendy. >> and send that message to anybody -- >> i have got to say this to you. >> come on, jane. >> all right. >> come on come on. >>. >> all right, all right! >> i'm just making a very important point. >> okay. >> and the data is with me on this. >> wendy, this isn't about a 15-year-old juvenile. >> let wendy finish. >> younger ages than ever before. >> let me just say, this wendy, we're locking up more people in this country than any other country in the entire world. and guess what we're just getting more and more violent. because, i believe, we are so obsessed with crime various cops, all of those cops are -- doing a great job but they've got to be paid. it costs money to house all of these kids in prison. we're locking up more people than any other country in the

entire world. >> we should be locking up the dangerous ones, not kids with drug addiction. >> i agree with you. >> we're lobbing up the wrong ones. >> listen, i think that we need to legalize drugs and start focusing on violence janey weintraub? >> this is so beyond evil. this is not just, you know a bad act of a kid or a juvenile act. this is exactly what you were talking about. where does somebody learn this? do they learn this from the parents? no. this is dousing someone with gasoline. and thank god the kid was laying out near the pool because he was able to be thrown in that. that saved his life. but what i'm asking is where's the community? where are neighbors? kids don't just get so evil. where are the teachers? doesn't anybody notice this kid or these boys are really in need of help? they are sick. >> it's tonight's big issue. >> oh, please. >> what is wrong with our teenaged boys? the fbi say the number of juveniles arrest forward murder is up 26% since 2005. how did we get there? look around you people.

here's the wildly popular video game, "mortal combat." the title alone tells you the goal of the game is to kill. this is the kind of stuff teenaged boys do for fun. and this is a mild version of stuff. what about these successful movies like "saw" and argument these sequels, the plots are based on killing sadistic physical and sexual torture and the films are box office hits especially with teenaged boys. how can we expect brenda wade teenaged boys not to be violent when the only thing that we are teaching them is violence? >> we have two issues here. one of them is absolutely the issue you're raising which is the brain is a programmable tool. as we're constantly exposing our young people to violence their brains which are much more permeable than an adult's brain. because remember, the brain isn't finished until the age of 22 to 24. so the higher cortex the part

that can reason the part that can look at consequences isn't there. so kids are trained in violence. that's what's going to come out. now the other issue and i really appreciate what my colleague just said about where are the parents, where are the neighbors? we don't have that village raising our children. children are not miniature adults. they're not capable of raising. so we have to have parents, neighbors, friends, teachers working together to make sure these kids are monitored, they are getting training they are getting support, they are getting help, and clearly we are not getting that. it does take a village to raise a child and we're not developing those villages the way we need to. >> jane -- >> go ahead, go ahead, steve rogers. steve rogers? >> may i add this being a law enforcement officer who deals with this daily, there's also one other missing element. these kids are not afraid of retribution. they're not afraid of a penalty. they're not afraid of facing the criminal justice system. and that's because -- >> because there are no

penalties? >> this criminal justice system is more concerned about it rights of criminals than the rights of victims. >> oh, that's so ridiculous. thank you! >> in the county they lock up teenagers. >> i want to bring jim laldeljal. you're the spokesperson, you're out there on the field what's your explanation of behavior of these kids? we've got 15-year-old boys, one 13-year-old boy. >> there is no way to explain it. and the sheriff made this point today that we have lots of touchy-feely programs but it's too late for these boys. and for some reason, they don't seem to know the difference between right and wrong. when they were toddlers no one told them, apparently, the difference between right and wrong. and they think that it's perfectly acceptable to set someone on fire if they've done you wrong. >> well they've probably seen it in the movies a million times. i mean all you have to do is channel surf and all you see is

violence violence -- >> internet. >> -- and more violence. >> no parental control. >> if you don't keep your kids away from it it. >> been an increase of sexual assaults in this count row and now age groups is -- >> we have a serious problem across the criminal justice system. >> more on this horrific results and we're taking your calls. 1-877-jvm-says, 1-877-586-7297. also coming up, an amazing story told by a woman who's raped and left for dead 20 years ago. what she's doing today to help change her violent past and get this guy arrested? but first, this young boy burned for being a snitch. why did this horror have to happen? it didn't. >> they said they were going to get revenge. >> they tossed something on him. >> gasoline. >> and threw a match? >> and threw a -- >> yes. >> do you know how bad,

sweetheart. >> badly severely burned on his chest.

i told the 14-year-old kid to please least premises you're not welcome here and as i was trying to walk back towards my house, he had then turned around and started threatening me and my children. >> that was the sister of michael brewer, a 15-year-old who was set on fire allegedly by boys he goes to school with. he's severely burned over most of his body and is expected to be hospitalized at least five months. he's going to need skin graves. this is one of the most painful kind of injuries that you can get. michelle oklahoma your question or thought ma'am?

>> caller: well, i'm dealing with same thing. last week on wednesday, my little girl got into it with a little boy at school. and he went and told his older brother. so he punched her in the mouth. and they suspended him one day. and then the very next day, the little boy it's boy that hit her, his little brother came to school and said he was going to stab her and they did nothing. >> so this is part of the problem. very good, michelle. and i wish you the best with your daughter. jim leljedal, you're the sheriff sheriff's office spokesperson. you cannot allow this wild out of control bullies run rampant. you have to stand up and say no you cannot steal that bike? >> absolutely. this lady needs to make sure that people listen. when she says that there's a problem, she needs to get some attention. if she has to go to the

principal and demand it she needs to get some attention to this so that her children are safe. our children deserve to go to school and be safe. >> yeah, they sure do but -- >> if there's a threat. >> and it's important in this case jane, for the parent to be brought in. >> yeah, but sometimes you can make a situation worse. it's like getting a temporary restraining order. how many cases have we covered of women who were killed after they got a temporary restraining order against their former boyfriend who was stalking them? it's paper. it's not worth the paper it's written on. >> the restraining order is worth -- >> don't give them a piece of paper. give them a gun. >> oh please. >> i know you don't like guns. >> wendy, you don't answer violence with more violence. >> we've got a spiral escalating violence in this country. let's get everybody in the world armed and we could all shoot each other and then we wouldn't have any violence because we'd all be dead. i don't think that's the answer. >> jane, this last caller about

her child at school -- >> go ahead, wendy. >> you have to give -- >> wendy first. what i'm sorry. >> wendy? >> i'm sorry, look, i think you have to sometimes give force against the bully and i know you don't like guns and i'm not always telling it straight when i say give a woman a gun instate of restraining order but what makes the guy stop beating the hell out of her it's when he thinks she might fight him back with equal power. and the thing about the kids, the thing i want to say about the kids two things here. one, they didn't just beat a kid up. they almost killed him and they did it because he did what all responsible citizens are expected to do tell authorities when something bad happens when a crime occurs or someone has stolen your stuff, right? that should be a civil rights violation, when you get beaten up, because you called the cops to protect your rights? that should be a civil rights crime in this country. >> i want to get to this. this is important. let me get to this.

michael brewer's head was so severely burned, lost most of his hair and his eyelashes. remember michael jackson's scalp was burned in 1984 as he fimd a pepsi commercial. you can see it right there. his injury look at his hair set on fire right there. his injuries much less severe than young michael brewer's. still they were excruciating and led michael jackson to an addiction to prescription drugs. befriended burn victim david rothenberg. david was just 6 years old when his fire set him on fire and rothemberg was burned head to toe. look at this poor child. over 90% of his child. said burnt injuries are the most painful. they have to put the boy in this case in a medically induced coma. >> jane, it goes back to -- >> brendabrenda? >> i really believe that the answer here is that we all children need vigilant care and nurturing. parents are not equipped. we have a problem with parents today. we have a problem with schools.

we are all overwhelmed with economic distress. i believe the answer is threefold. >> all right, we're going to have to leave it right there. >> education. >> let me say this we will not let this go. we're going to stay on top of this subject. fantastic panel, thank you. the issue of kids and violence in our society's outright addiction to violence, that's what it is. it's reaching epidemic proportions, in my book "iwant" i talk about my own poisonous addiction to alcohol and how i struggled to overcome it. these addiction says you solve the way, way. doesn't matter if it's addiction to booze or violence. if you're battling an addiction to something get this book because you get inside of the mind of an addict and you can understand how to combat the addiction. and, yes, my friend we are addicted to violence in america. you can order my book online,

cnn.com/jane. it's also in book stores. coming up, a major victory in the war on women 20 years after being raped, left for dead, jennifer schuett fighting back. a judge orders jon and kate gosselin, shut up and figure it out!

jon and kate going head-to-head and for once it's off camera. the messy divorce battle continued today inside of a courtroom. here's kate headed to court. great hair, kate. they thought about what else money. the latest juicy details, tmz reports the judge slammed jon ordering him pay back the $180,000 he withdrew from the account he shares with kate. the judge says, puts back the cash or be held in contempt of court. as for kate's claims jon left her broke, the judge reportedly said, hey, honey, show meet paperwork, and prove it to me. cameras recorded jon outside of the courthouse but for once he wasn't talking. he would only say this little tiny tidbit. listen to this.

>> the phillies will win the series. >> is that a prediction? >> a sports reference, what else? normally these two blab to cameras every chance they get, but today the judge warned jon and kate shut up! stop doing tv appearances. keep your divorce private for the sake of the kids. somehow, i doubt that will happen because, guess what their next hearing will reportedly be public. i'll be talking about all of this tonight on "nancy grace" along with financial expert suze orman. stay tuned for me at 8:00. the one and only harvey lemon. a tv executive at tmv. do you think that jon gos lynn happens the $180 grand or has he spent it. >> >> jane good question. my gut, i don't know this for sure. my gut is he spent some of it. and i'm saying that because he knows the clock was ticking on this money. and you know, it was squirrely the way he did it. i mean remember he said no no i only took about $20,000.

remember i never took all of that money out? well, he did at least according to the judge. so it sounds to me like something -- this is not going to just be the end of it. and my gut tells me jon gosselin's going to have to do another one of those shows that will pay a love money to get some of that money to put back into the account. >> without the kids, who will hire him? he's put that up sign and says t tlc you cannot film in here and tlc has halted production and shortly after tlc kicked him off of the show and said we will make it "kate plus 8." you will not do anything without me because i'm the dad. could he take those kids and create another reality show "jon plus 8"? >> well maybe he has, jane. and that's a really interesting proposition here. because here's what's going on jon gosselin is starting to appear on certain shows. he's for sale. i mean there are shows that are buying him right now. because one of the things they get in addition to him is access

to the kids. so ironically he can stop them being shot on the tlc show. and at the same time negotiate his own deals and say yeah you know, come over to the birthday partyane will get you a little shot here and there of the kids. he's prohibiting tlc was doing under the guise it was urnds the kids. >> tell me something about governor arnold schwarzenegger and his wife maria shriver. >> 15 seconds. she's on the cell phone repeatedly. these pictures of her and the governor signed this thing into law saying you cannot drive with the cell phone. we've pictures of her and the governor tweet me about two hours ago saying i will take action against her on this thing. and just as he twitters me we get video of maria on the cell phone again and she's on the phone and when she sees us she puts the phone down real fast. >> leave it right there, love you, harvey. a wild story coming up next.

kidnapped, raped left for dead. an 8-year-old girl taken from her bed in the middle of the

night and her throat slashed by a rapist and now nearly 20 years later the monster responsible may finally be brought to justice. also, blood-boiling new details in the case of the alleged drunk driving mom who smash interested a guardrail killing an 11-year-old girl. and now one of the surviving passengers claims the very own driver pleaded with her slowoun. tonight's big issue insisted mind of a drunk driver. tonight, a hero in the war on women. jennifer schuett was the victim of a violent rape. but she would not be silenced. for years she courageously put her face and her name out there. after 19 years, her alleged attacker is finally behind bars. tonight -- >> this is it in my life. and 19 years ago it was a tragic one. but today 19 years later i stand here and want you all to know that i'm okay. i am not a victim. but instead victorious.

>> jennifer was an innocent 8-year-old girl when she was snatched from her bedroom and brutally raped, her throat slashed. she was left for dead in this empty field. little jennifer lay alone slowly dying for 14 long hours. she couldn't scream because her voice box had been severed. she was finally found buried alive by one of her young classmate. dubbed the miracle child, she somehow survived. >> throughout this journey i've had two main goals and they were two, find the man who kidnapped sexually assaulted and attempted to murder me 19 years ago so that he could not hurt anyone else and to use my voice in telling my story to as many people as i possibly could over the years in hopes that i may encourage other victims of violent crime to stand up and

speak out against criminals. >> new technology matched dna on jennifer's pajamas it a 40-year-old married father of two named dennis earl bradford. you're looking at him. he's a welder. he was in the system after abducting a woman in 1996. he also raped her and slit her throat. he served just four years out of a 12-year sentence. four years. bradford now charged with attempted murder. again, he is a husband and a father of two children a stepfather to three whose allegedly been keeping a very, very, very toxic secret. this is a story of a little girl's survival and a woman's strength her tireless fight could put this serial rapist accused, alleged away. straight out to my expert panel. also on the phone, harvey, reporter "houston chronicle." wendy murphy former sex crimes

prosecutor. how about did this alleged monster almost get away with this when he was convicted a similar crime, lock up in 1997 so they had his dna in the system then. why wasn't that dna matched with the dna on this cold case a lot sooner? >> i think you know the answer to that jane. and how many times have we screamed about it on your show? jaycee dugard comes to mind as yet another recent example. it's because we don't give enough of a damn about women and girls in this country. >> yes. >> so that when they are nearly killed or raped and abused we don't put a lot of money into finding their attacker which is why guys like this do it again and again and again and never get caught. i mean how many more statistics do we need? can i just say, though i want to ring that guy's neck. i know he's only alleged at that point and that's fine. but this is my applause for that young girl. >> yes. >> i think she makes it clear -- >> i say a round of applause on

everybody's part for this young woman. she deserves a round of applause for standing up and putting her face out there. you know somebody challenged meet other day on the war on women and they said there is no war on women. you know there is a war on women. >> and here's the message we're going to find them and capture them. >> you know rapes are down to a 20-year-low. you know how many rapes that means, about 90,000 rapes in in this country, that's obscene. apwriter for "the houston chronicle." how did they find -- >> true data. >> that was on the front page of the "usa today," okay? harvey is a reporter with -- >> notoriously bad. i'm sorry, jane go ahead. >> it's probably more than that because it doesn't include the unreported rapes but harvey rice reporter "houston chronicle." they did have a special system that they put to work on this particular cold case. tell us about it. >> >> >> caller: well, they had -- >> yes? >> caller: -- a system called codis.

it's combined dna index system. and they did not have the same techniques 20 years ago that they do today. so the two officers that were put on this case one was a dixinson detective and the other was an fbi agency -- agent. and they got together and decided to take the -- this underwear, they were men's underwear and some underwear from the victim that were found bundled about 2/10 of a mile away from where her nude body with a slit throat was dumped on an ant hill and she was there for 14 hours while being stung by fire ants and she still has scars on her from that. >> i have to say harvey will corroborate this. you know what happened? the fbi worked with local law enforcement which rarely happens and together these agencies

combined all of their resources, they went to jennifer and they did it together and that's what we're missing in most these cases. >> steve rogers, yes, i applaud the fbi and law enforcement on this case. but what i'm asking and steve rogers, you're in police you're a detective at nutley, new jersey police why isn't there a system where you take all of the unsolved cold cases where you have dna where it's a felony where it's a woman being attacked and you match it with all the people, all the men who are in prison on rape? you take all of the outstanding rapes with the dna the underwear, all of these things that are left in closets and file cabinets and you match it with the dna of these guys who are behind bars for similar crimes. >> jane, you're absolutely, absolutely right. and the answer is simple. >> money manpour. >> the money is put into these good touchy-feely programs. when it should be invested in

the dna programming that you just talk about. >> but here's the problem and i have to go back to brenda wade clinical psychologist. what we're doing wrong in this country, i've said it before we lock up more people than any other country than the entire world and we spend so much money on crime and punishment and prosecution and it's very expensive to take a case like this through a court. it's very expensive to have people lock up. it's a big business let's be real. you have to feed them you have to house them. people are making money off of it and the taxpayer paying for it. are there private prisons. we all know what the scooby doo is. but money that they could take to solve these cases and use the money intelligently, and i'm not saying don't put people away. i'm saying put right people away efficiently. >> part of the issue jane. but another issue, to answer your question. one of the things we also need to do is prevent these crimes and we need at least three things to happen for that to be

true. >> what three things? >> one is again, we've got to give parents help in learning how to protect their children and i think jennifer is my absolute definition of a hero. a person who goes through an obstacle, comes out the other side and then tries to help other people. so i think her lesson is one we all need to take to heart. >> you know here on "issues" we talk about the war -- >> children need protection. >> rape victims. by wait, looking at her, dedicating her life to seeking justice. she spoke directly to other victims today. >> i hope that my case will remain as a reminder to all victims of violent crime to never give up hope in seeking justice no matter how long it may take or how hard it may be. with determination and by using your voice to speak out you're capable of anything. >> again, doctors thought she

would never speak her actual vocal chords were severed and she pulled herself together. what a hero. janey weintraub, you know they say, statistic is millions but one person is a story that we can really understand. but i think with w these statistics i don't care if it is 90,000, 100,000, 150,000, the number of women who are getting raped in this count rear obscene and what i feel needs to happen is for all these women to stand up together, show their faces and march on washington and demand a change in making rape a top priority for law enforcement. >> i agree and i think that's, to me answer to your question of why cold cases remain cold. it's the people in charge are not prioritizing rape you know especially children crime. and jennifer, i join brenda wade. jennifer is a hero, she's a survivor and she's the voice and the word should be spread that women and children won't take it anymore. we will hunt you down and we

will capture you. >> up next more defense tactics by casey anthony's lawyers. what they're up to this time and how it will affect her upcoming trial. and then uproar over alleged drunk mom's choice to get behind the wheel with kids in the car seven of them. a car she then ran off of the road. one girl is dead. others are seriously hurt. to say an outrage obviously an understatement. i want to hear from you, 1-877-jvm-says. why do people drive drunk? why do moms drive drunk? 1-877-586-72971-877-586-7297.

and let's meet today's winner. ben r. from san diego california, there he is looking very stoned nearly 12 years ago. look at him, much better there.

then says he was addicted to marijuana, got so bad, even his apartment complex posted a complaint notice on his door saying, "hey we're all smelling the pot. stop it." then quit with the help of marijuana anonymous. reconnected with an old friend. now going to college. ben has not smoked pot for 18 months now. ben, for sharing your story you will get an autographed copy of my book "iwant." to visit me here on the set of "issues." i promise you, dude, i will show you a good time and it'll all be sober. you can have a lot of fun even when you are sober. and this is a sobering story about drinking too much. a little girl is dead because one mom allegedly drove very drunk, shocking new claims from witnesses moments before the fatal wreck. but first, "top of the block" tonight. a laundry list of demands from casey anthony's defense team topping it off a court request to have casey's fraud trial

moved to a different county. her lawyers say it's the only way she will get a fair trial. but the big news here casey could end up a convicted felon even before her murder trial begins which means prosecutors can ask during the murder trial why, young lady, are you a convicted felon, and she will have to tell them, well because i'm a liar and a thief. slam dunk for prosecute operhaps. but is it enough to convict her of murder? time will tell and "issues" will stay on top of this story, of course. we're tracking that one right till the very end. that is tonight's "top of the block. ". outrageously shocking developments in the wake of a tragic and deadly dui, also known as dwi accidents. tonight, the cover of "the new york daily news" splashed with the word "how dare you!" "how dare you!" the speaker a seething mom whose 11-year-old daughter was battered bruised and bloody when the car she was riding in

smash interested a tree. cops say the driver 31-year-old carmen was smashed on booze when she swerved off of the road and caused her car to flip over and over and over. three girls were violently thrown from the vehicle. one of them crashes. 11-year-old rosato in the school photo killed. but the daughter of that enraged mom quoted on the cover of "the daily news" she was a lucky survivor. this child says the allegedly boozed up driver seen here in a photo from the same paper ignored pleas from her own daughter, her own daughter was begging her quote "mommy, slow down," says the mocking mom shot back "you think this is fast" and added, "just wait until we get on the highway." cops say carmen had a blood-alcohol level 1 1/2 times of the legal limit when she got behind the wheel after drinking at a party. a witness at that party says

carmen was the only one drinking, but one friend is standing by her tonight. >> i have never known her to be a drinker. i have never known her to be a violent person. all i know her to do is take care of the kids. take care of her responsibilities. and that's it. that's what that woman does. >> cops arrested her for drunk driving and vehicular manslaughter but oh my god, this isn't the first time, an allegedly wasted mom kills a child passenger. tonight's big issue, is this some kind of scary new trend? will we have mothers against drunk driving? are we going to have mothsers for drunk driving? i want to hear from you. back to my fantastic panel. i have got to start with the cop who has to do with this on the street. steve rogers, what is it going to take to wake people up to wake moms up? you cannot have so much as one drink and get into a car with seven kids especially when there's not enough seat belts for seven kids.

>> well unfrjs jane, we get involved after the fact. however, this is where education's going to have to really play a big role. and you know where the education will come from, the victims. just show those graphics of those children who are injured and unfortunately are killed maybe that'll wake up some moms. >> well, one of the victims is dead. so she sadly, cannot rehabilitate and go and crusade against drunk driving. that poor 11-year-old girl gorgeous child, is dead and her father is just beyond beyond grief-stricken. i mean to read the quotes of this dad in the paper, he lost his best friend. he's just devastated. >> jane? >> yeah. >> jane, are there so many drunk driver checkpoints that the police could put up and like i said it's after the fact that we usually get involved but word has to get out by those who were seriously injured and witness these horrific incidents to those mothers and to schools and to ptos and the community, wake

up. >> all right. let's recap and review -- >> people watched her get in the car with seven kids. who let's their kid get in the car with seven kids when the car couldn't fit seven kids? >> well, wait a second a lot of parents weren't thereupon. parents there. the parent of the child who died went to tremendous lengths to go and check -- >> it's our fault as moms. we're so permissive and we're so quick to say -- >> permissive? this is about drinking. let's keep it on focus. this isn't really about being permissive. this is about a woman being allegedly extraordinarily irresponsible and emotionally immature. and i want to talk about that when we -- >> i bet you something's wrong with this woman. >> jayne weintraub can't blame any criminal. she really wants to blame society. i am so up to here with it's the culture, it's the television, it's the people, it's the other mothers. you know what? look this is simple.

she is a criminal. she should lose custody of all of her children. and i don't want to hear anyone say she's not the type she's not the type she's a really nice person, she goes to the -- >> i hear you wendy. but we're going to debate this some more when we come right back after the break. what should happen to this alleged drunk driving mom? i want to know. you tell me.

she was my everything. what was the thinking of this woman who's a mother and you're intoxicated? >> that man's little girl is dead because the woman behind the wheel was allegedly wasted well beyond the legal limit when she plowed into a guardrail after losing control of her speeding car. flory, new jersey your question or thought. >> caller: yes. before i make my comment, jane i do want to say my heart goes out to the families of these

children. >> yes. >> caller: but on the other hand i do have a different take on this. as a parent you need to be responsible for your children. you have a son, and all through growing up never once did i let him go in a car with anyone, you know without me knowing who this person was, exactly what vehicle it was you know, how many other kids. i mean, there weren't enough seat belts for these children. didn't any of these parents ask well how are they getting home or who are they going to be with? i mean, you know it's easy to blame everyone but unfortunately, there's people like this out there. so you have to be responsible for your kids. you have to be on top of it all the time. >> brenda wade? very good point lori, new jersey. brenda wade? >> jane, i couldn't agree more. and you know, when we learn better, we can do better. i've actually got seven free tips on how to be a better parent on my website, docwade.com. we have to learn how to be vigilant nurturing parents.

but parents also need support and help. because if somebody is underfunctioning as a parent we have to all pay attention. all children are our children. and we've got to help parents be better parents too. >> let me say this. i don't believe that we should go around blaming the parents of the kids who were injured or died. you know, they're victims here as well. and we don't know the details. we know she was the only one who was drinking. the father had checked. she hadn't started drinking when she had checked -- >> it's not about blaming. we're alerting people to remember to be more vigilant. it's a reminder. >> well, here's -- >> here's my -- >> no we're shifting the focus -- >> jane, how about this one? >> there's only one bad guy in this story. it's the drunk woman. >> yes! i agree with you. >> it's not about being a good parent. >> she's at the party where the alleged dwi mom got wasted, said she was the only one boozing it up. the same witness said the mom didn't apparently have a drinking problem, that she only indulged on special occasions but just because she wasn't an

addict doesn't mean she didn't necessarily have a problem with alcohol. i'm going to quote from my own book here. "when you get sober, you return emotionally to the age you were when you began drinking." so you can actually check out my before and after pictures. because they're pretty embarrassing there. you saw them. you know -- now i'm here and sober. >> jane, how about this problem that law enforcement officers have? we arrest drunk drivers. we can't take their licenses until they go to court and get convicted. so 12 hours later they're back out on the street, they're getting drunk again, and unfortunately it'll result in a death and then we've got problems. >> that's not true in florida, steve -- >> hold on. i'm going to give jayne weintraub the last word. jayne, there's an emotional immaturity here if this woman did and said all the things that she's accused of that is simply the way a 12 or 13-year-old should act. ten seconds. >> and i think that's why a neuroconsult should be given. i think somebody might have even

clicked in the brain. nobody talks to their children that way. but aside from that -- >> and that's why you're a defense attorney jayne weintraub. thank you, fabulous panel. click on cnn.com/jane. order your copy of my new book. you are watching "issues."