>> the jaycee did you guard miracle. a look at the woman kidnapped as a child and allegedly sexually abused for 18 years. revealed today for the first time how jaycee is recovering from her unimaginable nightmare and the remarkable picture of her today almost too hard to believe. >> explosive new accusations about jon and kate's kids. why a big star is attacking jon

and kate's handling the kids and using the word abuse. "showbiz tonight" uncovers the new clues about the future of jon and kate plus eight. the nasty new jessica simpson weight slam. the disgusting new video making fun of jessica for her weight. >> i still can't believe tony dated jessica simpson after she blue up. >> it's sponsored by burger king. are you kidding me? tv's first most provocative entertainment news show starts right now. >> hello, i'm aj hammer broadcasting tonight and every night from new york city. >> i'm brookaner snon hollywood and a picture and story so remarkable, it almost defies

description. for the first time since jaycee did you guard was rescued, the world got to see what she looks like after she was held as a virtual sex slave. "people" magazine revealed the picture of jaycee and the indescribable story of how she is recovering from her nate mare reunited with the mother she was taken from. this is one story and picture that made for big news breaking today. it's the first photo of jaycee we have seen since her miraculous rescue. the smiling young woman on "people" magazine shows no indication of the unthinkable ordeal she went through. >> she looks beautiful and full of life and happy. >> what are a turn around for a woman who went through so much. kidnapped at age 11 outside of her california home in 1991 in a case featured on america's most wanted. >> have you seen jaycee? >> held captive and raped over

18 years during which she had two daughters and in a break, she and her daughters were freed. now she biz tonight can tell you jaycee and her reunited family are telling the world how they put their lives back together after the long ordeal. >> they are inseparable and spend every minute together talking and laughing and doing activities together. >> she is now 29 and her daughters are 15-year-old angel and 11-year-old starlet are living with jaycee's mother in seclusion in northern california. >> jaycee's stepmom said the healing process will be a lot quicker and easier for them if they stay away from outsiders. >> as part of that seclusion, jaycee was not intrude for the people article, but in a statement she said "i'm so happy to be back with my family. nothing is more important than the unconditional love and support i have from them."

>> this reunion is going very, very well. >> this morning on the today show, a family spokes person said even though they are staying private, jaycee's family feels it's time for the world to see how they are doing. >> this is her way of thanking everyone for the support and letting them know she is doing okay. >> after she was kidnapped in front of her own home in 1991, jaycee's desperate mother pleaded for the kidnapper to return her baby. >> it's time she comes home to her family. >> authorities say jaycee was held captive in these tens behind the home of her alleged kidnapper, phillip ga riddo and his wife, nancy. he raped her and fathered two girls who lived with jaycee in the hidden back yard camp and probably still would be there if it weren't for two heroes who now are also telling their story. >> the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. >> these university of california at berkeley police

workers tell the oprah show when he brought his daughters to the campus, something didn't seem right. >> they were pretty girls, but they weren't animated or interactive. it was a nonverbal communication. as though they were props. >> the women contacted the authorities and soon after jaycee and her daughters it were free. they pleaded not guilty to kidnapping jaycee. a family friend said jaycee is cooperating with prosecutors. >> she well aware for that prosecution to move forward she needs to cooperate and she is prepared to do that. >> people told "showbiz tonight" both jaycee and her daughters necessary therapy. >> part of the therapy is horseback riding which is helping jaycee and her daughters get over the turmoil. >> as for the daughter who is had never been to school, family members say they are coming along well in their studies. as for jaycee, she is not dwelling on the past.

>> right now jaycee's priorities is looking towards the future and deciding what's next and starting a new with her daughters and her family. >> the new issue of people hits newsstands on friday. tonight new jon and kate money madness. jon gosselin had to be scrambling to figure out how the heck he is going to come up with $180,000 and it made for big news breaking. that is just how much a judge ordered jon to put back into a joint account he shares with kate. jon, show us the money. the startling results of a "showbiz tonight" poll that came in. we asked if kate should pay jon spousal support and not the other way around. judge alex from the show judge alex and suzanne is a senior editor for star magazine. as of today and i'm watching the calendar, jon gosselin has 12 days to return the $180,000 he took from a joint bank account

or face contempt charges. i begin with you, alex. if you were the judge in that chair, based on what we know, would you order jon to do the same? >> absolutely. you can't resort to self-help and take money when there is an order saying no significant amount of money should be removed without the consent of the other party. people do this all the time and don't think ahead. the judge will look at that unfavorably when making a decision on how property will get split. if you take out $100 thousand then that don't belong to you, expect that much or more will be extracted from your half of the proceeds when everything is settled. >> i have a feeling he is not holding on to that in a high yield cd. i'm just saying. he tried to explain why he thought it was okay to take the money in a new interview. "well, it was just after arbitration. we weren't supposed to take money out of the restricted account and we both did. i was found in contempt and

didn't realize i was taking my paycheck out." on the one hand, he acknowledges he was not supposed to take the moneyy, but in the same breath he was saying i was taking my paycheck out. help me make sense of that. >> i am on team kate here. jon knew very well he couldn't take that money out and jon's got some cash stashed aside. he is working on a reality show and has other things and better put the money back. >> part of this legal battle may have kate saying she will demand that jon pay her temporary spousal support. what we did here is turned the tables and asked in our question of the day, jon and kate money battle. should kate pay jon and looka the results that came in. 33% said yes and 67% said no. let me ask you this, judge alex.

if jon decided to push it, do you think he could make an argument that kate should be the to pay him spousal support? >> sure. it's not a popularity contest. he would be losing hands down. it's really based on need and ability to pay. if a judge determines that alimony is appropriate in this case regardless of if it's for the wife or the husband, the judge is going to look at whether or not there is a need for alimony or there is an ability to pay. based on that if she has the title pay and he has the need, it will go that way. >> from everything we see, she is the 1 with the money rolling in. him, not so much. if there was any doubt that the tv show is on its last legs, i want you to look at this promo tlc is running today. >> next monday on an all new jon and kate plus eight -- separate lives. >> girls, are you ready? i'm not. >> separate adventures.

>> we will do destructive man stuff. >> with only a limited number of episodes left, jon and kate spent quality time with those who matter most. >> only a limited number of ed soeds remaining. we know that they are taking jon's name off the show, but should we read into the show is toast because it sounded doom and gloom to me. >> i think there only a couple of episodes left. who wants to watch about boring with the kids? it was so much better with all his relationships on the side. she's got a cooking show with paula dean in the works and her own tv show. this is only going to last so much longer. >> it will be interesting to see how much longer. i appreciate you both being with us. brooke anderson, let me bring you back. i haven't had the opportunity to say this, but i am so happy to have you back. you have no idea.

i realize you were being a great mom to kate victoria, but there is a rumor you brought along baby pictures to show us. >> let's take a look. here she is. >> she's beautiful! nice! >> thank you so much and i have a lot more pictures i'm going to share with everybody in a bit. i cannot wait and we have also got this. >> i still can't believe tony dated jessica simpson even after she blew up. >> this is so terrible. tonight another jessica simpson slam. a new video dissing her weight and it's sponsored by burger king. seriously? we also have this. >> here we go. look. coming up. >> that's not funny. >> here we go. >> that was brilliant! >> outrage over the couple that splashed kids at a bus stop on purpose. were the kids in on it? >> time now for the "showbiz

news ticker." more stories from the newsroom making news right now.

welcome back to "showbiz tonight." i'm a.j hammer. >> i'm brooke anderson. >> welcome back. we missed you. the splash shocker. this is something that happens all the time in new york city when it's raining. you are walking on the sidewalk and all of a sudden, a cabbie comes along and goes through a puddle and it drenches you. it is pretty annoying when that happens. tonight, a guy did this to a bunch of kids on purpose and created a controversy splashed across headlines everywhere. i'm sorry to put a damp or this story. were the kids actually in on this? >> you know how kids like to play in puddles?

it left a 29-year-old british motorist in a muddle. >> that's mean. >> kerry and her boyfriend were in their car and she was driving and he was in the passenger seat. >> here we go, ready to drench the kids. the bus stop is coming up. >> that's not funny. >> here we go. >> goodness. >> here we go. puddle. >> juvenile. >> coming up. >> that's not very nice. >> yeah! yeah! that was brilliant! awesome! >> i hope they got their thrill. >> rude and dumb. >> dumb is what i agree with. >> the couple's problem started when they put it on you tube and people complained to police. the driver said the kids had called out to them, asking to be splashed. the couple made this their second pass. >> coming up, kids.

>> the driver told the local paper if the kids weren't saying splash me, splash me, i wouldn't have done it. i'm not a serial splasher. the slow motion, they seem to have their backs to the road. >> my kids would love it. the wetter the better. >> i would do the same. >> you would do the same? splash the kids? >> why not? >> police say driving from standing water could have caused the driver to lose control and they forwarded kerry's file to a prosecutor and in britain there is a law for driving without reasonable consideration and splashing is considered inconsiderate with a fine of up to $1500. there accidental splashings and dlib ritly mean ones. this one really caused a splash. >> were they dirty? did they need a bath?

>> that was brilliant! awesome. >> evil. anyone got an umbrella. brooke, i can tell you the operators have missed you and they tell me if you need a baby-sitter, they will put the calls on hold and help you out. >> that's good to hear. i'm sure my husband would like a date night at some point in the next five years. let's go to the phones. lots of calls about david letterman sleeping with his former intern and jimmy kimmel dating a staffer. is it ever okay to date your boss? elaine from arizona doesn't think so. >> caller: no, never. never a good time for that. people are meeting at work, but there is a power differential and that does not make the consent to be mutual. it's not an equal relationship.

>> gina from oklahoma thinks it's no big deal. >> caller: i don't understand why two consenting adults should be news makers. neither filed suit or argued with one another. it's only brought to our attention through another person and i don't understand. consenting adults should be allowed to do what they want. since when is it everybody's business what goes on in private? >> you can call us to sound off on this or anything else at all. the phone lines are always open. 888-sbt-buzz. leave us a voice mail to play your call here on "showbiz tonight." there is a big bag of brand-new jon and kate news and oh, yeah, it's shocking. big star is attacking their handling of their kids and even using the word abuse. a pretty harsh word to use. also this startling news. jessica simpson being slammed.

>> is jessica around? we could use a defensive tackle. >> that are is just wrong. a new video making fun of jessica for her weight. get this. the video is sponsored by burger king. are you kidding me? >> the baby dancing to beyonce. that should keep you watching, right? ♪ all right, there is much more to see of this. we have the new amazing warm and fuzzy story of how this cute dancing to single lady's baby became one of the most popular videos ever. this is "showbiz tonight." time now for the "showbiz news ticker." more stories from the newsroom making news right now.

>> hey there america, let's make this clear. miley might be gone, but i'm still here. >> jimmy fallon as billy ray in a hilarious spoof of miley's bizarre say good-bye to twitter rap video. >> this is so bizarre. first mile whoa had so many followers on twitter, she shocked everybody by saying she was dumping her page. people were outraged she was abandoning them on twitter. things got more bizarre when miley made this video about shutting down her account.

>> yeah the rumors are true, i deleted my twitter. can you believe it ♪ i said adios ♪ >> he said i will raise you a more outrageous video of dad trying to get miley's fans to follow him on twitter. >> i will say how good my hair looked on dancing with the stars, bro, i traded in my mullet. i may be one here and that doesn't make me bitter. my career is in the -- and i ain't no twitter quitter. i'm still here. you know where to find me. you should follow me if you used to follow miley. i'm still here ♪ >> now that i'm back, i'm looking forward to being a part of our facebook page. why are people being so cruel to

jessica simpson about her dog taken by a coyote. joan writes anyone making fun of her about losing her pet obviously never had a dog they really loved. aliaa said it's just because she is jessica. she is an easy target for cruel remarks. i can bet the reaction would have been different if it was someone else's dog. i top the hear from you on facebook and twitter for breaking entertainment news alerts and sign up for facebook and twitter pages. >> now the showbiz lineup on "showbiz tonight." the disgusting new jessica simpson weight slam. >> tony, is jessica around? we could use a defensive tackle! >> this is hideous. this new video sponsored by burger king. really? model madness. the model whose retouched skinny

photo sparked by outrage. she said she was fired for being too fat. outrage over one of the biggest fashion magazines in the world putting a mod nell black face. is black face ever okay? this is "showbiz tonight" on hln. more stories from the "showbiz tonight" newsroom making news right now.

>> now on "showbiz tonight," the brand-new jessica simpson weight slam. today an outrageous new video makes fun of jessica's weight and it's sponsored by burger king. model madness. the model photo shopped to look freakishly thin in a ralph lauren ad got the boot for being too fat. are you kidding me? fury over one of the biggest fashion magazines putting a model in black face and call together fashion. is it ever okay?

a jon and kate accusation and why a big star is attacking jon and kate's handling of their kids and using the explosive word, abuse. tv's first most provocative entertainment news show continues right now. welcome back to "showbiz tonight" and i'm broadcasting tonight and every night from new york city. >> i'm brooke anderson from hollywood and the simpson weight slam. there is an absolutely disgusting new video making the rounds today that is making fun of jessica simpson's weight. the outrage is bubbling over after somebody at fox thought it would be funny to make fun of jessica simpson's weight in a skit during fox's nfl sunday. get this. it was sponsored by burger king.

talk about offensive, remember the ralph lauren model who was retouched scary skinny photo and it sparked outrage? she claimed she was fired for being too fat. yeah, aj, too fat at 5'10", 120 pounds. are you kidding? >> in new york is megan alexander who sia correspondent for inside edition. let us begin with that this video that aired during the pregame show on fox this sunday making fun of jessica's weight and her former boyfriend quarterback tony romo. take a look at this. >> cowboys lost the game. with everything going on in dallas, you better believe they are as focused as ever in the locker room. >> i can't believe tony dated jessi jessica simpson after she blew up. >> unlike tony, at least jessica

comes up big when it counts. >> put down the ball and the kicker will do the rest. >> no problem, coach. >> guys, i'm standing right here. >> sorry, tony. is jessica around? we could use a defensive tackle. >> don't you have better things to do? >> no way of making it through the season anyway. >> jessica. >> sorry, boys. i only lose weight for winners. >> i think this is reprehensible. jessica has been an easy target, but to make fun of her or anybody because of their weight to me is hideous. what do you think? is this inexcusable? >> it's a penaly and out of bounds and she has a particular hand gesture in response. it is disgusting.

what i don't understand is that usually when something airs on television, it has to go through a lot of approval ratings. the network has to approve it and they got through all of these people and what did they think was okay about making fun of a woman who is normal size. she is gorgeous. >> making fun of somebody's weight and it's sponsored by burger king. that's insane. burger king must have seen this beforehand, but they said they didn't have anything to do with the creation of this awful skit, telling us they have a long standing relationship with fox sports as well as extensive media partnership with the network. this was not developed or aired by bkc or any agencies. here's what fox tells us. burger king corp did not have any editorial input into the creation that ran last sunday and nobody from burger king approved it before it aired. upon reflection, our poor

attempt at humor was insensitive and we apologize to anyone who might have been offended. apology accepted? >> the response to this is very interesting and something to watch. do you know that girls between the ages of 10 and 13, 50% of them think they are too fast. it's because they see things like this. it's unbelievable to me there was nothing else they could have joekd about and had no other material than to make fun of someone who is over weight and she is a beautiful and healthy girl. this is a health issue. i'm glad to see these response. there needs to be more. >> in 2009, i was hoping we were past this. during one part of the skid, fox fired a shot at jessica's weight. it makes an important point. watch this. >> i can't believe tony dated jessica simpson, even after she blew up.

>> let me point out that he is an offensive tackle for the cowboys. he weighs 338 pounds. any excuse for even in a joke comparing jessica simple to a 338 pound football player. >> they were trying to make the point, but here's what they need to listen to. that's what the girls want to be is famous. when you project yourself to the universe as a skinny kind of a dumb blond, that is fodder for jokes and it's unfortunate that that's what she represents to the country. when she was more famous, it is based on is it chicken or tuna and she was half naked in the jack in the box commercial watching the car. that is what she put out there and that's all people think of her as. it's like up for grabs. >> i guess so, but i still think when we heard the general apology, we need to hear a

specific apology. are you with me? fox, burger king, whoever. >> absolutely. sometimes it goes a long way. i agree, she does open herself up to criticism and at the same time she deserves an apology and what's done is done. maybe this will be a lesson to all the men who were involved in this add to be more sensitive. >> you don't think women gotting to do this story? enough of this. let's hope they do the right thing. i want to move on to this model madness. the ralph lauren model whose image sparked a ton of controversy is saying she was fired for being too fat at 5'10" and 120 pounds. >> they said i couldn't fit in their clothes anymore. >> they said that to you? >> not to me, but to my agency.

>> could you fit into the clothes anymore? >> i could fit into the clothes, yeah. >> you didn't understand. the clear impression was that you were fired because you were too large? >> i was too large, yeah. >> again, 5'10" and 120 pounds. is that insane? >> it is. i had the opportunity to interview her and let me tell you i am so proud of her for speaking out and i hope the fashion industry is listening. they talk a lot about this and it's time to take action and it's time for the industry to incorporate models in all shapes and sizes into their campaigns. my hat goes off to do a little bit of this and could you imagine if truly the fashion industry incorporated more plus sized models, america could embrace it and it's a health issue. i really believe lives are at stake here. 50% of women said they have some type of eating disorder.

they could be saving lives. >> i have to tell you, that is the call we have been making and it falls on deaf ears. a spokes person said they let her go because of her inability to meet obligations under her contract. i don't know if i buy it. thank you very much. now late today we heard from jessica simpson's rep who said she is not commenting on the fox video controversy and maybe that's the best thing. brooke anderson, i cannot tell you how happy i am to have you back from maternity leave. we are all very happy you are back and missed you very, very much. >> i missed everybody too and i did not come back empty-handed. i have a new photo album of my beautiful kate. i cannot wait to share the pictures tonight andicate is my superstar, but there is another baby that is stealing hearts everywhere.

>> the heart warming video of a baby dancing to beyonce's single ladies. a model posinging in black face. >> i don't think anyone slathers black paint on a white face and expects everybody to just be okay with t. >> fury over one of the biggest fashion magazines in the world, putting a model in black face. this is "showbiz tonight" on hln. >> time notice for the "showbiz news ticker." more stories making news right now.

>> welcome back to "showbiz tonight." i'm aj hammer in new york. >> i'm brooke anderson in hollywood. what about the kids? are jon and kate so caught up in their divorce and the drama that it's abusive to their kids? in a new interview, a celebrity is saying jon and kate are not only exploiting their kids, but abusing them. is that out of line or does it totally make sense? joining me in hollywood, judge

alex from the show judge alex and cooper lawrence who is a psychologist and author of cult is celebrity. let's go to it. the comments today come from star jones. she said that jon and kate's drama and divorce antics are abusive to their eight kids. she said i fell it is getting to the level of abuse. when your parents are going through a very public divorce, the entire world is looking at you and you can't have a birthday party or soccer game or even go to the bathroom without someone making a judgment. that's abuse. as a mother now myself, i have to say i really agree with star. i feel for the kids. maybe i wouldn't call it abuse, but it borders on neglect. is the level of scrutiny actually a form of abuse like star says? >> it's a general term of people being physically abused and we

don't think about neglect. they haven't made an inclination to seem like they are caring about the children. they are not staying out of the public eye or protecting the children and seem to be using them against each other like parent dos in divorce. i have to say, years from now when the kids turn up with disorders because of the abuse, we say abuse. >> i hope that doesn't happen, but it brings up that concern. listen to what star went on to say. at some point they have got to think about the best interest of the child and need to stop exploiting their own children. let them be kids again. kids need to be protected and you should be looking for a courtroom and not a camera. i think this is a fair comment. get over yourself and focus on the kids. judge alex, what do you think? if jon and kate walked into your court, how would you counsel them about how they are dealing with their kids? >> it's not unique at all.

we see this in every divorce case and not just celebrity cases. >> it is sad. >> it is, but what they are sowing now, they are reap later. they are bhaft way they see mom and dad treating each other. letting them be treated that way, that will be their legacy and they can keep that going and sit back and enjoy the fruits of their labor. >> it's unfortunate. our facebook page is blowing up over this. angie said it is abuse for sure. their parents are not setting good examples. there is way too much stardom for jon and kate. kate is only in it for the money and not her children. the poor kids are the pawns. cooper? is it fair to say jon and kate are treating them like pawns? >> of course they are. i love how judge alex said it.

they are media hoars. it's about the other 1 and the money. you watch them and you see how selfish they both seem. i think they are reaping what they sow. the children will end up in trouble because they are making it about them and not the children. >> rethink their actions and focus on the eight human beings who need your love and care. judge alex, we will leave it there. >> tonight, is black face ever okay? this is sparking major debate. they feature a dutch model in a fashion spread in black face and body paint. they have a long and painful history in this country and not overseas. this comes on the heels of harry connick jr.'s uproar of a black face performance in australia. is it high fashion or just highly offensive? here's what jason carroll found out for "showbiz tonight."

>> the imagery, an embarrassing chapter in american entertainment. black face. >> mother of mine -- >> popularized decades ago in minstral shows and movies like 1927's the jazz singer and not a relic of the past. pictures from french vogue's latest edition showing a white dutch model in black face and body paint, wearing ethnic clothes. they may say it's high fashion, but it's far more offensive. >> i don't think anybody slathers black paint on a white face and expects everybody to just be okay with it. >> they think they are pushing the envelope. >> it's clearly for fashion and not made for a political purpose. >> i think there a lot of beautiful black women who could have played they role. >> they did not return our calls for comment. without context readers are left

to assume the worst. >> what are you see is another white performer dressed up in black face for the amusement or profit of whites. >> after an australian talent show ran into trouble for this. american judge harry connick jr. criticized the group's depiction of the jackson five. the host later apologized. >> we spent so much time trying no not make black people look like buffoons, when we see something lick that, we take it to heart. >> outside the united states, it's not just australia where black face is entertainment. in japan, a soul group sells out shows. in mexico, comic book character ended up one of the country's national stamps in 2005. despite criticism, the stamp was never pulled. >> we have come a long way, baby. we have h a long way to come

from and have a long way to go in terms of global image. >> other countries may not have experienced civil rights movements and national conversations about race the way america has. therefore harry connick jr. said he did the right thing by saying something over the shocking bit. he walked off the show because he thought it was the right thing to do. >> tonight the story behind the single baby sensation. the video of a baby dancing to single ladies that has become a block buster hit. >> tonight we have got the real story behind the adorable video that has people everywhere shaking their thing. now the "showbiz" news

ticker. making news right now.

♪ up in the club, doing my own little thing ♪ >> did you see this? of course you have. this little bundle of energy has become an internet super star this video has gotten more than 400,000 hits on youtube. it is the story behind this single baby's singular sensation. her mom reveals how this heartwarming dance video came to be. now kyle and ginger cunningham take all kinds of videos of their kids and put them on

youtube so the family members all over the kounry can share in on the fun. so when ava's parpts saw her bopping away, they ran for the camera. this was the result, a viral video hit that had everyone grinning from ear to ear and had us all wondering how she learned the moves. >> whatever she feels, she dances to it and sings it. and so this is one of many for her. >> turn it up. >> she is so cute. well, i have to point out, we have a cute new addition to the "showbiz tonight" family. she is not dancing yet but is quickly becoming a big time star. brooke anderson and your adorable baby girl. you are going to share pictures with us? she is so sweet. how is the whole motherhood thing going. you have been off long enough. >> there is that jab.

it is wonderful. truly the best thing that has ever happened to me and probably will ever happen to me. and she is shaking her shoulders and moving her head around when she gets excited. so she has moves m could be a dancer. should i add beyonce to her song mix? >> is she mugging for the video camera? >> she smiles all the time. the child grins. she laughs now, rolls over. just pure joy, a pure delight. do you recognize the monkey? >> i know that monkey. >> you gave that to her. such a sweet girl and we named the monkey a.j. >> okay. >> and i could talk about her forever but i know we have to move on. we asked you on tuesday to vote on our question of the day. just moments ago we got the final results.

e-mails -- >> that is it for "showbiz tonight." so good to have you back. >> this is fun. let's do it again tomorrow. >> i am brooke anderson in hollywood. you can catch "showbiz tonight" on the 11s. tonight on the joy behar show, the first pictures of kidnap victim jaycee dugard have surfaced. she looks great but what is going on behind that smile? and massachusetts congressman barney frank joins me and we will talk our way from day rights to health care reform. and america's one time favorite

tv queen joins us.

jaycee dugard is recovering. and i will talk to barney frank ability why he thinks that sunday's day rights march was all about the grass. and joining me to talk about losing weight. all this and so much more tonight. i want to start tonight by showing you a picture.

it's the cover of "people" magazine. it shows the first picture of jaycee dugard since she was freed from captivity as a sex slave. this poor girl was kidnapped nearly 20 years ago and allegedly held by this low life creep, phillip garrido and his wife in a disgusting backyard prison. joining me to discuss this unbelievable case is betsy glik, and cooper lawrence. okay. betsy, let me start with you since people magazine got the cover of this. >> right. >> was the girl, jaycee, was she worried about doing this at all? >> i think this is a very long process. she's just at the beginning of this process of reuniting with her family. there's been intense media interest in her, and i think she wanted to kind of control her own story a little bit and show the world that she's okay. >> uh-huh. did "people" magazine pay her to do it? >> "people" like other news outlets sometimes pays for

photographs, but beyond that i can't get into the details. >> well, they might have needed the money, the family. they could use it. before we go to the next thing, some people wonder if jaycee should have done the spread, but the family spokesman, spokesperson defended it on "good morning america." why did she decide to let her face be seen now. >> she wants to maintain her privacy and not really step into the spotlight. she did want to thank everyone and let everyone see how happy she is and how -- how much she's enjoying this and how glad she is to be home. >> cooper, do you think she should have done this? >> no. i question her decision making ability to begin with. i think that she's been victimized enough and the more scrutiny she has to endure, because when you put yourself out in the media people have an opinion about you and i don't think she's in a opinion now that she's ready to hear all that, maybe later on, but this just happened.

>> do you disagree with that? >> i think these are beautiful, sensitive pictures, accurately handled and i think the only opinion anybody can possibly have about her is oh, my god, thank goodness she's okay. >> i know, but don't you think the media attention hurts the child? i mean, she's really healing. i think she might want to be private. her family might want to be private. >> i think it was their way -- we live in this intensely media-saturated world. it is her way of controlling it of saying people are going to find me, people are stalking me. people want to take my picture. here are the pictures i want to show the world. over and out. >> yeah. all right. take a look at the age progression picture of jaycee that the police compiled next to the real photo from "people" magazine. look at that, that is incredible, i think. you watch these type of things

on television on law ask order and they show you somebody drawing what he's going to look like. it's unbelievable that they could be that accurate. >> think she looks better now. i can't believe those years of stress didn't really have an impact on her. she actually looks pretty good. so i know why having the pictures out is a good thing, but psychologically, i don't think she's in a position to put herself out there yet. >> was her family hesitant about it at all? >> yeah, i mean -- she was rescued about two months ago. this is the very first moment that she has been out there. >> yeah. >> and she's barely out there. these are photographs. these are not her, parading in the street and, you know, i think she's taking it very slowly. >> she is. >> but do you think there's a risk, cooper, of this young girl, jaycee actually being angry in her life that she was not rescued by neighbors and the police? i mean, they really were rather ineffective in rescuing this girl all these years.

>> the american journalist family therapy published a very interesting study about kids who are abducted and re-introduced to families and they found there's more stress in that because they don't know how to be with this family. the trauma they suffered initially, they haven't really had a chance to snuff out that trauma and figure out how it affected them and now they're being traumatized all over again, so i think the process is a long one, and i think she really needs some time to figure it all out and to get over the anger that she will be feeling. it's inevitable. >> she's got to be furious. >> of course, she's a human being. she's got to be furious. >> i mean, we don't know what happened to her during those 18 years. it's impossible almost to imagine what was going on now. >> she had two children with this monstrous guy. i mean, we pretty much know that at this point.

>> beyond that, she looks remarkably well. we don't know the details. >> we don't know what's going on inside of her psychologically and think about this. she was abducted and she had to spend time with the person who abducted her while she was going through the possibly post-traumatic stress with no help other than to stay with the person who did this to her. >> so i think there is a lot of anger underneath that needs to come out. >> do you think the parents should go to through therapy also? >> have to. >> family therapy. >> just the guilt alone. the biological dad found out later on, imagine, if i was in her life, could i have protected her? she ed needs that support system. >> she needs to be allowed to express that range in the therapy session, i think. >> absolutely. >> on "the today show," the dugard family spokesperson said the family is doing very well, listen. >> i have seen a family they think if you didn't know the circumstances it would just seem like any other family, just, you know, the love between jaycee and her mother and her sister who was an infant when jaycee was taken have formed a very, very close bond and to see them all embrace jaycee's daughters

and the five of them are just very close and comfortable and happy. >> maybe. they're happy to have her back, i think, but i think it's unrealistic to say that everyone will stay happy because it's going to hit the fan very shortly, i think. >> it's just happening now, plus the research shows that families like this do go through levels of guilt and anger and as they progress and as they develop as a family the important thing is that she knows they're there and they're a foundation, wherever they go from here to point b, you know, it's a good start. >> well, let's talk about the two children that this garrido allegedly fathered while she was in captivity. i understand that they are at normal academic level, these girls. >> apparently they are. >> how do you explain that. she was a child herself and she

was raising two babies, infants and they actually are at normal academic level. is it just genetic? they're just smart kids? what happened there, do you think? do you know? >> we don't know. what our story says and what we have been told is that they're really intellectually curious. they want to learn. they are already receiving some tutoring and you have to imagine that jaycee herself was like that during the 18 years. >> wow! she could give herself a lot of credit, that kid, for what she did for those two girls in that situation. it just breaks your heart, doesn't it? >> she clearly protected them because if they are reaching all of the developmental milestones, clearly somebody was there to help them along. so it is to her credit. >> she's a good mother. sad, but -- sad story. thanks very much for being here. >> we'll be right back with congressman barney frank. health care reform cleared a

health care reform cleared a big hurdle yesterday when the senate finance committee passed the baucus bill. by the way, baucus means no public option. joining us to discuss it is barney frank, representative from massachusetts and the chairman of the house financial services committee. congressman, what happened to

the public option? >> well, i've been working mostly on the regulatory reform and i'm glad to say that we just earlier today finished work on the bill that required most of them to go on an exchange and that's a great event. the problem with the public option is the senate finance committee is a conservative committee than the senate as a whole. the committees are not absolute replicas of the whole senate. the public lost in that committee 1310. i believe that if you go to the whole senate, there would be a majority and then you don't have 60 and that's the dynamic they're fighting for and the question is the finance committee is one of the more conservative committees and the democrats are more conservatives and the vote could be different on the floor of the senate. >> at the end of day don't we need olympia snowe's vote and she said she would never vote for a public option. it sounds like you're not going get it. >> you're asking me of an issue that i am not involved in the financial regulation and it's also the senate and not the house. it's one of the institutional flaws here is the senate and

house don't interact the way they should. but she has been talking about some version of it and there's a twofold version here, joy. it is conceivable that some democrats, for example, would vote to break the filibuster who would then vote against the bill. it's actually a two-step process. you don't technically need 60 votes to pass the bill. you need 60 votes to be able to get the vote on the bill so it's theoretically possible to get 60 votes to break the fill buster and then pass the bill with 56 or 57 votes. there may be some democrats willing to do that who would say, look, we don't think we should filibuster this to death. it's the final bill. the other issue is this, the house and nancy pelosi has been very strong on this. we are very much committed to a public option. the main argument that the conservatives make is that people might like it. they're afraid it would be too popular. there were inconsistent arguments and everybody will hate it and then it will become so popular it will swamp everybody else. it's in the high 50s and you get a strong house vote, maybe

you'll get it. >> i thought the republicans were afraid of competition, why are they for the public option in that's capitalism. why are they scared of it. >> because for a lot of american bees, capitalism is a spectator sport. they like to watch other people engage in it, but they like to sit in the stands and eat a hot dog. >> i see. do you think the negativity about health care reform in general is over now? has that been pretty much put down, un-american, et cetera? >> not entirely. there are still people who are very angry that they've lost power. there are people on the right who, frankly, they're upset about the culture. they're upset that gay people aren't being shunned. they're upset that women are enjoying the right to make decisions about themselves. they're upset that movies and books, they don't want to see or read are being seen and read by other people and always making them go. so i think that sort of spills over into this kind of anger, but i do think that some of the wiser conservatives and i think the conservatives made a big

mistake morally as well as tactically and they were benefitting from the crazies, and i think they realized that got in the way of the rational arguments that they wanted to try to make. so i think you will still see some of the negativity, but it won't be as supported by the republican apparatus as it was. >> okay. now, i know you're for gay rights and all of that, but a lot of gay rights supporters were upset with what you said about the gay rights march this sunday. let me play what you said just to remind the viewers. >> barack obama doesn't need any pressure these things. secondly, if you do want to pressure congress i don't know why standing on a weekend when no member of congress is in town is going to do. all that's going to pressure is the grass.

>> i work very hard on these issues, we just succeeded and i did a lot of work along with others, and the other openly gay and lesbian people and the leadership of nancy pelosi other and, we're about to have signed by the president the first bisexual and transgendered people against prejudice and we had a good hearing to prevent discrimination in employment including people who were transgender and i just spoke to the chairman of that committee about getting that hearing -- we had a good hearing and getting that marked up. early income year we'll be moving on to don't ask don't tell. president obama is trying. the problem is not president obama, it's getting to the 67 votes and the only thing i say this to my friends, aren't you mill at that point? i think the most successful

militant -- is the rifle association. i disagree with them all of the time, but i have to talk about how effective they are. when was the last time you saw an nra march? there weren't people marching up and down the mall. >> why can't they do both? why can't you lobby and march at the same time? >> most other people have other things to do, they have children, they have jobs and other relationships to worry about. it's human nature. people only do a certain amount of effort. if people do both, it's fine, but i'm afraid that some people will come to washington and they'll march. that's why i said what i did. marching isn't a negative thing, but to think that having marched they've done something effective, they wouldn't do what is effective and the most effective organization is nra and let me mention aarp. they don't have shoo-iners on shuffle-ins or anything else. they don't make us crazy which is what an american citizen ought to do when he or she is trying to influence the legislature. >> the march is a personal thing. they wanted to show up for support for the whole issue. >> i get that. it's an emotional belief and i'm want opposed to it, but i do believe that human nature being what it is and that's why i spoke out. i didn't say it's a terrible thing. >> right. >> it wasn't in and of itself useful. if people march and in addition to those other thing, then that's fine. >> thanks very much for coming on the show, congressman. >> you're welcome. >> now i want to turn to robert zimmerman, cnn contributor and democratic strategist. let's start with the health care thing. how big a deal was that

yesterday? >> it was profoundly significant, and i have to give individuals like congressman frank who was just with us, enormous credit on health care and gay rights and a whole host of issues, but the baucus committee vote is very critical. we now have achieved more progress for health care than any administration has in 60 years. of course, it's important to remember the baucus bill represents the floor, if you will. that's the bottom line proposal. >> the floor? >> in other words, that presents the more conservative proposal. the house side represents the more liberal proposal, and both houses are going have to come together and make very tough negotiations and very tough compromises. for example, you saw the baucus bill that does reduce the cost of health care spending and does exclude the public option now being attacked by both the right

wing and the left wing. >> what does the right wing have against it? >> it's very interesting. first of all, you've got to remember, the right wing said we can't support a public option. so the public option was removed. this compromise of co-op plans were proposed. >> right. >> this could be voluntarily created by groups, communities or businesses and then, of course, the republican conservatives came back and said okay, we can't support that either and senator grassley who was a leader in the so-called bipartisan movement came home and got heat from the extreme right wing of the state and then backed away from it. >> i see. >> it's very interesting. >> at least we're past the death panel conversations. i think we've moved -- it seems it has moved. >> the dialogue has moved without the republicans, which sun fortunate with the exception of olympia snowe, i think a few others will join, but the important point here on health care is to realize that there will be a bill by the end of this year and you do have -- and it's -- >> just let me change subjects, we're running out of time. >> okay. >> on the gay rights thing on the don't ask, don't tell, the fact that obama or any president can just with the stroke of a pen just put that into effect. >> absolutely. >> and this time the obama administration came out of the closet on don't ask, don't tell. >> i love that. >> issued an executive orders to suspend prosecutions of gay and lesbian soldiers.

>> it's outrageous, really. come on, move on. >> robert, stay right there. we'll be right back with the latest dish on the fight between obama and fox news.

in the past, president obama has taken some shots at fox news and vice versa, but now it seems the administration is escalating the war of words and adding some backup. >> the reality of it is is that fox news often operates almost as either the research arm or the communications arm of the republican party. take their talking points and put them on the air and put their opposition research and put them on the air and that's fine, but let's stop pretending they're a news network the way cnn is. >> not exactly friendly fire

with me now is my pal robert zimmerman, cnn contributor and democratic strategist. before we go into another clip which i want to show you, is this a war that the obama administration's going to win with fox or not? >> no. >> it's not going to win it. >> i understand their frustration, but the best way to -- the best way to beat their right-wing critic is to govern effectively, in fact what they're doing is elevating them by engaging them this way. glenn beck brought this argument to a whole new level. listen to this. >> when they're done with fox and you decide to speak out on something. the old, first they came for the jews and i wasn't jewish, when they're done with fox and talk radio do you really think they're going leave you alone if you want to ask a tough question?

>> he's a weird obsession with the nazi thing, doesn't he? he called obama -- didn't he call him a -- >> he's the perfect example why we need health care legislation. we should decrease his medication and get him coverage for it. what is so galling about this is that glenn beck is trying to exploit one of the greatest tragedies of civilization just to get a sound bite. >> how does it hurt fox news? do you think he hurts the network? ? you know something? i'll leave it to the network to figure that one out. the more important, does he condition tribute and part of intelligent, creative part to the discussion?

he doesn't. >> i don't think he wants to. i think he want to be on tv and make a splash and anything to make money. >> anything to create a base. if you look at the past election results he's a perfect example of why the democrats did so well because the country is rejecting that extreme, ignorant behavior. >> barack obama got more votes than any democrat for president since 1964. look at the democratic victories in congress and look at the fact that rush limbaugh, glenn beck, the philosophical leaders of the republican party have become an embarrassment to the republicans and the country. >> they don't really disassociate themselves in the mainstream in the republican party. >> they should say glenn beck needs medication the way you did. >> it's remarkable. lindsay graham spoke out about it and became national news. he took on glenn beck. the reality is and you saw this in the presidential campaign. rush limbaugh was the touchdown. there was a limbaugh primary and it was the biggest one. while he didn't want john mccain, john mccain became the nominee and when john mccain went out of his way to court rush limbaugh for support, mccain's support dropped dramatically. >> that's interesting, but who do you think should speak out against them? >> i stand up for my party. when moveon.org took on general petraeus with inappropriate ads you saw them stand up to denounce it. the republican party has refused to stand up to glenn beck or rush limbaugh. or glenn buck. >> thank you, robert. valerie bertinelli joins me next.             

dad, don't you think we should be able to spend our money on a car if we want to? >> not if it doesn't make good sense. your mother was absolutely right for getting it. there's only one sensible solution. >> i know, keep taking the bus. >> actually i was thinking of buying you a new car. dad, who wants to ride a bus to school every day, i mean -- dad! oh! >> from there to here, it's been a long, long road and my next guest has certainly navigated it well. i'm happy to have the author of finding it with, val valerie bertinelli. >> you could haven't been cuter.

>> that's all i had. >> i was watching this clip before and i saw mackenzie was in it as well. she was very young. was that whole thing going with her father before the show? >> this is the first season. i don't think it happened a little bit after when she was 19 or 17. she's 15 here. >> she's 15. >> that was a shocking story to hear that that happened and i've never heard the phrase consentual incest before. >> i know. >> there was katherine harrison who wrote a book called "the kiss" who said she slept with her father as an adult and that was semi-fictionalized. this was really strange to hear. >> i've known mackenzie for obviously a very, very long time, and i know she's been tortured for a very, very long time, you don't continually year after year treat yourself as badly as she did for no reason. there was something going on and obviously we know now why.

>> it's shocking that some people don't believe her. i don't get what in the world could she gain from this from saying something so horrible, of course. plus, like i said, i've seen her struggle with sobriety for so long. there's some stuff going on. i think we need to be giving her grace and just, you know, let her be. the thing is she's doing very good things for incest survivors to. >> her half-sister chynna and bijou. >> she's too young. they believe her, though, don't they? >> i don't know. i only talk to mack. i haven't seen chynna in a lot of years, but -- i -- i don't -- i don't know why they don't support her. i don't. >> but, no. chynna says she believes her. >> i guess you call her a stepmother. she says she doesn't believe her because it's impossible to be married to john phillips all that time and to believe he

would have done something like that. >> mackenzie for -- michelle was high a lot of those years, too. so -- you can turn a blind eye to a lot of things. >> we're talking about a lot of drug addicts. >> a lot. >> anyway, let's move on to you. >> speak of drug addicts. you didn't take diet pills. no, but food is my drug. >> you're italian. we were talking about this on "the view." in the bathroom. >> you were quiet. >> i realized oh, my god, joy is in there and i couldn't pee. i have to get it out here. why isn't she peeing? >> i had to pee. >> did you hear me? >> i did not hear you, but you have to get over this because you have to remember the queen of england pees. >> that's true. >> and poos. >> or we hope she's not constipated. >> i don't know. that could be a descriptive

term. you lost 40 pounds on jenny craig. >> i lost 30 pounds on jenny craig. >> patty says hello, by the way. >> and hello to patty. i don't remember who that is. >> the ceo. >> i gained 15 pounds back and i'm trying to lose it again, but i have to be paid to lose weight. if they would pay me again, i would lose that 15 pounds. >> you hear that? you hear that? folks over at jenny? >> we would make some fun commercials, would we not together? >> yes, we would. you looked really great in the bikini shot. do we have a picture? we showed it on "the view" today you were gorgeous. you were skinny minnie. >> i worked my butt off. oh, lordy. >> do you still get in a bikini? i was in a bikini all summer and i was having a ball because i was in the privacy of my backyard and i had a ball.

no paparazzi around. they weren't taken out of my behind, and they were taken of the front of me. >> you were tight and you were taut. >> i worked really hard. i set a goal and i accomplished my goal. that is a good feeling for someone who, like me, falls behind on some of the goals that i set for myself. so this was a really -- this was a feel good experience for me. i gave myself a big pat on the back. >> think when you set the goal people have an easier time dieting than keeping it off. >> the maintenance is this whole other animal that's really challenging. for the first time, this is the longest time i've ever been in maintenance because i've always gained it back. it's a whole new animal for me. it's an interesting journey. i don't ever have to gain the 40 pounds back and then have to lose it again, but this is where you get into the nitty-gritty of why i gained so much weight in the first place. what do you think is the reason?

were you an emotional eater? >> oh, all of the time. i still am. i have to really catch myself and watch myself to make sure i don't fall into that bad habit again. i see some people can't keep it off. oprah winfrey, up and down, kirstie alley, but these girls really are in trouble. and they're on television. >> it's really not. it's not. that's kirstie. we're all the same when it comes to this. it's a challenge for all of us and it's really not just about will power. it's about finding out why your life was so chaotic that it manifested itself in being overweight and that's what i'm trying to find. and it's different every day. the stresses are different. the emotions are different. >> do you eat from depression? some people eat because they're happy, some people eat because they're sad, some people just eat. >> all of it. i'm italian. the memory i have was watching my grandma cook in the basement of my uncle dino's house.

and they cooked three meals a day. hello? you're italian? >> everyone had a basement kitchen. yeah. >> i know, but the thing is when you come from a background like ours the food is good so you just keep eating it. >> i wasn't happy when i was young, young, young. you ate, but you ate three meals and you went out and played and you were outside all day and when it got dark you went back for dinner and dinner was done, the kitchen was closed and you went to bed and the day started -- it wasn't all of this nibbling and noshing and eating in front of the television and being unconscious when you eat. >> you work out you lose weight, right? >> you move your body. >> when you get over 35 it's harder because your metabolism slows down. that's just a fact. >> it is so you have to work harder. >> let's look at this, jessica simpson's weight issues. >> she has a weight issue?

>> man, i still can't believe tony did a jessica simpson. even after she blew up bigger than flozell adams. >> hey! >> how brutal can the media be about press and these people making fun of jessica. the poor girl, i mean, she put on maybe -- she doesn't even look heavy to me. >> maybe five pounds? >> i don't get it. she's a very beautiful young woman, and by the way, i guess all that thing about tony romo not being good when he was with her, well, you still suck. can i say that? he's not having a very good season so far, so you can't blame it on jessica anymore. >> the girls are sticking together. sorry, i'm a saints fan. we're having a great time so far. 4-0. >> the new orleans saints are playing the giants this weekend and i'm a little scared because we're both 4-0 and 5-0 in new york? >> i don't know if they're playing in new york or new orleans.

i know i'm not going to be at the game. the giants aren't from new york, aren't they? >> i'm terrible. >> so -- i'm feeling so terrible right now. tony romo, you must be a nice guy, i guess you are -- >> don't worry about him. he's not watching the show anyway. he doesn't care. i wouldn't care if i were him. i want to talk more about the book because you have other stuff about your marriage and how weird it was, i love that stuff. >> that was a long time ago. >> i know, but it is so current in my mind because i have the book. >> okay. >> i'll be back with valerie bertinelli in just a minute.

okay. i'm back with valerie bertinelli. let's talk about your new book

"finding it." >> okay. >> what did you find, first of all? >> i'm still finding it. >> what's it? >> exactly. the whole weird thing about maintenance and finding what caused me to put the weight on, what i'm going to find to help me keep it off, just finding it in my weird, bizarre life which isn't probably so weird because a lot of people have the same stories going on. >> it's highly relatable, are you kidding me? you talked about your marriage with eddie van halen who is a rock star and a cute guy and everything. >> how long was that marriage? >> i think we were married for 20 years, but we were separated for some of it, so i don't know, i've known him for almost 30 years. uh-huh. i can't believe it was that long. >> august of 1980, we met. >> time goes by so fast. it was just yesterday monica lewinsky was just a little girl under the desk. i just want to know -- are you disgusting or what? >> clean the dress. >> golly. they should be cleaned if they get dirty. >> because she's looney tunes. >> disgusting. >> there was a discussion about extra marital affairs in this book which usually is the reason people break up.

that's it. this other baloney -- i have to find myself, i need my space. that's a bunch of baloney. someone is waiting in the wings. what happened there? >> i think by the time you start having affairs something is obviously quite broken in the marriage. obviously something was quite broken in our marriage early on, but we kept up the good fight and we didn't quite make it. >> who was cheating on who? >> you know? do you have to know who? what? when? >> we have a little thing going. ed thinks i did first, and i'm thinking he did first, but we don't know about the timing. >> it was also the same conversation about why we eat. people stray in a relationship for an emotional reason. >> because you're not being

fulfilled in whatever relationship you're in. >> either that or you're a horny dog. >> either that or you're in your 20s. >> like governor spitzer and the other dogs being like we're talking about it. >> edwards. >> they're out there hounding it up, but with women -- >> we know how to hound it up once in a while, too, unfortunately. >> but we have usually a reason, it's not just -- >> so we're given a get out of jail free card? no, no, no, no. >> do you think women cheat in the same way men cheat? >> i think cheating is cheating and it's wrong and you shouldn't do it. i can speak from experience from having been cheated on and having cheated. i think the feeling, it feels worse for me to have cheated on because that feeling of the pain that i inflicted on somebody, i don't ever want to do again. the good thing is that now i'm in a relationship that i know i don't want to hurt that man ever like that. >> you've learned. >> yes. i've learned my lesson. no knock -- monogamy is in my life. seriously doubt, because he's -- okay. i'm not going to go there. he's really good in bed. >> better than halen was? you don't have to answer that. >> oh, my god, my parents are watching this!

oh, i'm sorry, pops! i love you. hi, mom. >> you should hear this. >> i'm still a virgin, right? >> you're like a virgin, let's put it that way. i had a child 18 years ago. >> but what was i saying? >> i don't know. >> let's go get a drink. the thing about monogamy when you were younger is monogamy is monotonous is the truth. >> it depends on who you're being monogamous with. >> it is difficult to stay monogamous when you're younger, i think. >> absolutely. >> you're still finding it, whatever that it may be. >> so that's the real reason. >> that's why i think getting married at 27 was really stupid and i don't suggest anybody do that. i think more mature love that i'm going through right now -- i'm with my buddy. i really, i enjoy his company. he's my best friend. i -- i don't want to hurt him. >> first of all, you named your son wolfgang william -- >> van halen. >> you left out the bertinelli,

fortunately for him. i mean, this could take a year. you named him after mozart, didn't you? >> yeah. >> were you lying in bed very post orgasmic saying wolfgang, that's really the name? >> i loved the amadeus and i loved the way she said wolfie, wolfie. and i thought that sounds really cute and coming up with the name van halen wasn't easy. i didn't want if he was going to be a boy be called jan. >> how about robert van halen. >> no. >> tom van halen? >> no. >> frank? how about -- >> salvatore. >> salvatore! yeah! mozart van halen. >> i think wolfgang determined he had to be in the business. >> he's very lucky he got his dad's gift and not mine. >> you have a gift. >> a vomit mouth?

>> what instrument does he like? >> he started on the drums when he was 9 and then he picked up the guitar when he was 12 or 11 and then his dad asked him to start playing the bass and he started playing the bass. he's talented. he's got a beautiful singing voice -- on oh, there's my boy. >> he's a cutie pie. very cute. a big boy. and he is now teaching himself the piano. and he kicks ass in rock band. >> really? >> does he sing, too? >> yes, he does. yeah. >> what was the whole thing today about him being a virgin? you think he's a virgin. >> really, seriously? you want to talk about that? >> i just got a text in my son, we're watching "the view" now. are you still speaking to me? >> you were teasing about it. i was. i was. >> he's 18 years old. he's a virgin, right? >> whatever. >> he might be, he might, but that's none of your business. >> none of my business. as long as he's not -- i don't want to talk about it. >> never mind. this happened today also and you didn't want to talk about it,

but is it in here in the book? >> i talk about the sex talk and the sex talk that ed had with wolfie. >> you were listening to. >> well, yeah because it was on the road and we were listening in the dressing room and i could hear ed talking and if you've ever met my husband or ex-husband, he has a scrabbly voice, and it sounds like he's in the mafia, and he has this gravelly voice and saying be careful with what you do with your heart and protect it, but once you fall in love, don't protect it so much that you don't let anybody in and protect her heart and there will be all these whores and bitches, that will want to date you because you're in a rock band. i wouldn't put it exactly that way but it is good information for him to have. i have run into a few skan skankswhores in my lifetime. >> i bet you have. >> oh, yeah. >> you're happy with the way he

spoke to your son. >> i am. i may joke around, but he's a really good dad. >> are you friends with eddie now? >> i don't know -- we're friendly. i don't know that i would ever call him my friend or buddy the way tom is my buddy, but i like him again, and i fell out of like for a long time. him again, and i fell out of like for a long time. >> yeah. i was at the wedding. >> oh, that's so nice. >> yeah. so was tom. tom was with me. >> once you have a child, you're never really separated 100% from your husband. >> no, you must treat each other with kindness and love your children more than you hate your e, x. >> i'm not letting you go yet. this woman isn't going anywhere. more with valerie bertinelli when we return.

valerie bertinelli and her boyfriend are sitting across from me. >> roped him in. >> we've been discussing valley lease new book "finding it" and a lot more. welcome to the show, tom. we dragged you in here from the green room. you two are an item for how long? >> five years. >> five years next week. >> you've been dating five years are there wedding plans -- >> what did you call him the other day? >> spousal equivalent. >> you're my spousal equivalent. >> you're not going to get married? i don't want to do the seating chart. everyone gets mad at you. no one wants to be at table 17. >> how about you? do you want to get married, tom? >> i don't know. she hasn't asked me yet.

>> if she asked you would you marry -- >> will you marry me? >> where did you two meet? >> at moi brother's house in scottsdale, arizona. my brother patrick and his wife, stacey. we were going to a wine event and i keep my wine in the freezer, especially in scottsdale where it's hot as all get out. >> in the freezer? >> you get it out before it gets too cold. i bruise my wine all the time. i take it out before it gets frozen. he was in front of the freezer and i saw a guy in the tux that looked like that. >> it was a black tie event. we had a good time. >> i said, hello, i'm valerie, and you are? like, uh, tom. >> what did you think of a big straw like her coming on to you, tom? >> you know, it was difficult. i had to get used to it. >> did you -- >> i just supplied her with

champagne. >> at the event -- every time my champagne glass would go down to here, i'd have another one in my hand. >> he met you and fell in love with you before you lost the weight? >> yeah. >> that's a keeper. that's a keeper. >> i was big, too. i was 220. >> he lost the weight on the program. >> the man doesn't have the same -- >> he could -- >> criticize the women. >> remember how big your belly wasn't? not as big anymore. >> that's good. >> it's really something. we had a couple of e-mails from you. questions for you from e-mail. >> what are they saying? >> you can read that without glasses? >> yeah. >> how old are you? >> older than you. check with "people" magazine, they print. every month. >> if they didn't print your birthday, wouldn't you be offended? >> no. they do, like, lassie, 12. >> which lassie? >> this woman, janice, i am on

-- she write, i am on a low-calory program and woried about how i get back to real food. how did you handle that in. >> i'm still on jenmy craig. she has to turn her head around. if it's a super low -- i don't know how much weight she has to lose. maybe she's on a too low of a program. on jenny as you incorporate food and get to your maintenance level, you can -- >> you're off of the food that they package for you at that point? >> i still eat it. >> not 100%? >> some days i'll eat it 100%. i want a nice, clean day and know what's going into my body. i'll do jenny and -- >> i just love you. you are adorable. >> you are my kind of gal. >> tom, too, i think you're a wonderful little couple. i love it. thanks to valerie and tom and all my guests for joining me tonight. thank you for watching. good night, everybody.

breaking news tonight. satsuma, florida, a 5-year-old little girl tucked into bed. five hours later, she's gone. vanished. the back door propped wide open. daddy comes home from the nightshift to find not a trace of little haleigh. the last person to see the 5-year-old alive that night? new stepmother misty croslin. just hours after croslin handcuffed by cops on alleged road rage, she flies to new york, taking to the air to declare she's innocent. but even in one brief interview she can't keep her story straight, first claiming she knows nothing about haleigh's whereabouts, then blurts out the

other side of the family took haleigh. then a 180 on the failed lie detector, claiming she passed. then admitting she failed. after her brother tells cops he was at the home that night, no sign of croslin, completely debunking her story. her mother says croslin's not coming clean. croslin's tv response? they betrayed me. they're the bad guys. look at them. don't look at me. minutes after croslin's debacle on national tv, her lawyer dumps her. bombshell tonight -- we know whenever the investigation heats up, croslin goes a-wol. tonight it's revealed her wingman, the woman who took her to orlando and new york, was working undercover to befriend croslin and get the truth. did it work? this while haleigh's dad publicly stands by his new bride, sources review in a fit of depression over haleigh,

cummings threatens to shoot croslin dead if she's responsible. in the last hours, croslin and cummings file divorce papers in a florida court. what does it mean to the investigation? croslin claims the holes in her story have nothing to do with the split, but have cummings' worst fears been confirmed? that his new wife, misty croslin, implicated in the disappearance of his own 5-year-old girl? >> just divorce. i mean, i don't want a divorce, but that's what he wants, so it's whatever. >> breaking news. the divorce papers between ronald cummings and the last person to see haleigh alive, misty croslin, have been filed. >> we gave her the papers. she's no longer represented by anybody.

she looked them over, took them to a notary, brought them back signed. >> the two of us have agreed to go separate ways and just -- with the family problems and everything else, it's just -- it's too much on the relationship. >> does ron still believe misty? reports emerge ronald cummings investigated over alleged gun threat. allegations his attorney denies. what happened? >> why does ron continue through his lawyers to say that he's supporting misty and that he's not concerned about the inconsistencies in her story when we thought he was divorcing her? he's providing cover, he's probably his own worst enemy at this point. >> tips flooding in from across the nation. possibly haleigh sightings caught on tape. this as misty croslin's mom transferred out of a tennessee jail. will she be questioned by florida police? >> i thought all along she had something to do with it and now this kind of just proves it. i mean, she was the last one to see our daughter and her stories just don't add up. >> if this girl keeps doing what

she's doing, it's only a question of time before she's charged with something having to do with this kid's disappearance. she just repeatedly, repeatedly contradicts herself. tonight, live to pennsylvania, two mentally handicapped teens with the minds of a third and sixth grader, vanish. tonight, the search for two helpless handicapped teens. where are charles and donna? pennsylvania police are searching for two mentally disabled teens who vanished in the poconos prid night. 18-year-old charles locker and 19-year-old donna kiranen left around 6:30 p.m. headed out for a walk and haven't been seen since. a massive search was launched over the weekend with emergency management workers, firefighters, residents and search dogs all out scouring the

area for clues. authorities say the teens both have a sixth grade mental capacity. they are desperate to find them. state police plan to continue looking until the pair are found. >> good evening, i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. did a female friend go undercover to get the truth about the disappearance of 5-year-old haleigh? >> everybody knows that i love haleigh and ronald and junior. just a family like haleigh wanted. >> the last person to see haleigh alive is the last person to finally sign divorce papers. >> i think we both agreed on it. >> who brought it up first? >> i did. >> the divorce between ronald cummings and misty croslin now filed. will it boost the investigation into what happened to 5-year-old haleigh? >> i feel like it's on the other side of the family. that has her. that's just how i feel. >> do you feel that police have

looked at everyone they need to look at? >> i don't think they looked at everyone as close as they have me. >> now that misty croslin's mom has been transferred out of a tennessee jail will she be questioned by florida police? >> if this family is willing to betray each other over something like getting a get out of jail free card, what does that say about her and who's she willing to betray? is she betraying ron? is she betraying haleigh? >> as over 4,000 tips continue to pour in, including possible haleigh sightings caught on video. >> i believe haleigh is alive. i have faith in god to take care of my baby girl and find her. >> straight out to art harris a harris.com. i understand this is your story you break that the wing man, the so-called friend that went to orlando and flew to new york with misty croslin was undercover?

>> that's right. donna brock, volunteer for texas equisearch, according to tim miller was working all the time to get close to misty so she could possibly glean information about what misty may know happened to haleigh. this was not known to police, per se, she was not a, quote, agent of police but she was working for texas equisearch in an attempt to find out what she could learn by getting close to misty. >> art, where all did donna brock go with misty croslin? where did they travel? >> nancy, she picked her up in satsuma and they went to orlando, they wound up at universal, coca beach. they were on the road when everyone thought misty was on the run. tim miller was wiring money for her to take misty to get her hair, nails done to get close to her. misty was warming up closely to donna. this was something that was working until the road rage

incident outed them both. >> wait a minute. are you telling me that the so-called undercover friend was the friend in the road rage incident that was driving? >> that's correct, nancy. they were driving down highway -- interstate 4 when according to tim miller someone tried to run them off the road. donna balk pulls alongside the car and gave this driver the finger then misty gives them the finger and that is when -- >> i've heard the whole thing. i interviewed the woman who called the cops. art -- put him up again. art, you're trying to tell me it was the victims? how come it was the other lady, pharmaceutical sales rep, that called police? to rat herself out? that doesn't make sense. >> nancy, it depends how threatened to donna brock the driver feel? she didn't feel threatened enough to call the police. according to her it was the other driver -- >> hold on. before we go off on the road

rage incident, i want to get back to this. to marlaina schiavo, our producer on the story, did it work? did donna brock get anything out of croslin? >> unfortunately, nancy, it didn't work at all. all that happened at this point was she got to travel around with misty and get to know her a little better and all she could gather was that misty has a sort of temper that no one has seen but other than that there's been no new information that came from this new friendship. >> what do you mean by temper? >> well, apparently, you know, she had witnessed a couple conversations that misty had while they were on the road with ronald, and apparently she got really, really hostile with ronald at times and she witnessed her just not being very even tempered. >> take a listen to what one alleged victim of misty croslin's had to say. >> to top it all off, while ronald cummings has publicly

stood beside his new bride, misty croslin, now we learn of threats? art harris, what can you tell us? >> that's right, nancy. tim miller went back to the house where ron was living with misty and tells me that ronald took an assault rifle from his closet, had two clips, 32 bullets in each and he threatened to blow misty's teeth to the back of her head and then kill hils and take others out with him if, in fact, he learned she had anything to do with haleigh. he became afraid if anything happened to misty the case would go down the tubes and they would never find out what happened to haleigh since police believe she's holding more information than she's revealing. that's when she came up with this undercover mama idea to let donna brock go on the road with misty to see what he could get from her. >> to mark knee jame, attorney for tim miller of texas equisearch, your client is certainly up in the >> to top it all off, while ronald cummings has publicly stood beside his new bride, misty croslin, now we learn of threats? art harris, what can you tell us?

>> that's right, nancy. tim miller went back to the house where ron was living with misty and tells me that ronald took an assault rifle from his closet, had two clips, 32 bullets in each and he threatened to blow misty's teeth to the back of her head and then kill hils and take others out with him if, in fact, he learned she had anything to do with haleigh. he became afraid if anything happened to misty the case would go down the tubes and they would never find out what happened to haleigh since police believe she's holding more information than she's revealing. that's when she came up with this undercover mama idea to let donna brock go on the road with misty to see what he could get from her. >> to mark knee jame, attorney for tim miller of texas equisearch, your client is certainly up in the investigation, hiring someone and paying a woman to go undercover to get the truth out of misty croslin, and when he

says ae observed ronald cummings with a weapon, i thought the cops took all of the weapons out of the home the night haleigh went missing? >> yeah, i think if tim had an opportunity to do a do-over on this he would have. what ended up happening is he did tell the police about this, but at the time the focus was on her polygraph, her voice stress ypnosis all of which failed. he let them know. a couple months later everyone said, there's a rifle in that closet and there's another child in the house. at the time the focus was really on what is misty holding back and what is she not telling everybody? >> why won't she come and sit down with police and talk to them? >> i can't answer for you. i'm sure that maybe her attorney can answer it for you. >> we have talked to her about talking to the police. >> what does she say? >> she says she's talked to them.

i got up because i had to use the bathroom but i didn't make it to the bathroom. i seen the kitchen light on. i walked in the kitchen and the back door was wide open. >> she told me when she woke up she keeps the lights out. she noticed the kitchen light was on. she said she made it around the corner -- you had to, like, go around the corner, she noticed the back door was open.

bedroom and haleigh wasn't in there. >> i didn't notice about haleigh then until i seen the back door open and i go in the room and she's gone. >> she went to haleigh's room. she wasn't in there. that's when she started calling. >> ronald, has the theory misty left the house sometime during the night been disproved? >> i'm not sure i believe that it has, nancy. i'm almost 100% sure but i wouldn't tell you that and lie to you. >> there's no way she could have waupdered off. >> no, she is scared of the dark. she would no go anywhere by herself. >> but i know the little girl, she would not just get up and walk out that door in the middle of night by herself. >> do you believe she left the home and left the children alone, ronald? >> absolutely not. >> we are taking your calls live. out to ellen in california. hi, ellen. >> caller: i love your show, nancy. thank you for taking my call. >> thank you. yes, ma'am, thank you for calling in. >> caller: the twins are beautiful.

>> thank you. they're going to be 2 in just a few weeks. >> caller: lucy looks just like you. >> well, that's a compliment to me and i want to thank you for that. it's a dream come true. >> caller: lucky lucy. >> thank you. what's your question, dear? >> caller: i think misty's stories don't jive because i think she's learning disabled. >> why do you say that? >> caller: remember the 911 call when they asked for her address? >> yes. >> caller: she gave the street. the 911 operator asked for the numerical and she said, what's that? >> okay. to ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story from the very beginning. is there any sign she is disabled? if she is disabled she's somehow managed to throw off the cops now for about nine months.

>> no reports like that, nancy. however, we do know misty croslin, know she's an 17 years old, has dropped out of school, has not gone to school for some time. some reports suggesting she dropped out as early as after the sixth grade. >> what about it, art harris? >> i've spoken to her grandmother in nashville, tennessee, who raised her during the crucial years of grammar school, sixth grade. she said she had a hard time with her homework. misty begged her to help her. the grand mother had a hard time, too. she says she does have learning disabilities and her parents did not make her go to school. this is a young woman, young girl who has not had the best education, nancy. >> out to peggy, washington state, hi, peggy. >> caller: hi, nancy. i just want to say i love your show the best because there's never any of this political stuff on it. it's just interesting things. >> peggy, thank you very much.

i absolutely do not like politics. i don't believe either side. the republican, the democrats, i think they're all lying. >> caller: me, too. >> there you have it. what's your question, love? >> caller: i was wanting to ask you, back when haleigh was first discovered missing and it was, like, close to a week, i think, that two cadaver dogs hit on the dumpster that was, like -- >> right. >> caller: okay. what i want to -- i've never heard, when did the dumpster get emptied? i mean -- >> right, right. >> caller: usually are -- >> i remember that. what about it, ellie? >> well, nancy, we did hear reports the dumpster, there was a hit by the cadaver dogs on the dumpster. they apparently thoroughly checked out the dumpster. they weren't able to find anything there. any signs of dna, blood, anything like that. i believe they also went and checked the dump where that dumpster would be emptied and didn't find anything there either. >> i believe the dumpster had been emptied two days before? >> right.

that sounds right. >> to mike brooks, mike, what do you make of the divorce and in your experience handling so many cases like that, how, if at all, will it effect the investigation? >> if at all, nancy, i think it could help the investigation because, you know, ronald, the whole relationship right from the very beginning has been tumultuous from the time the police report was taken. maybe now that, you know, ronald's not there to protect her, if you will, maybe she'll open up. instead of going up to the morning show and cbs and should have been with putnam county sheriffs talking to them about where haleigh is, period. >> they've been on me for six months. they haven't left me alone for six months. i've been the one. the main focus. they just need to move on and look for the right person.

do not lie to me. you've never lied to me before to my knowledge. don't tell me that you didn't know police want to talk to her again. we all know it. we've talked about it on this show, on national tv. now, i'm telling you police want to talk to her. now, why is she back in orlando and not speaking to police? >> that i'm not sure, miss nancy. i already told you, same as what terry said. it's probably due to her attorney. his advice. >> let's unleash the lawyers. joining us tonight, renee rockwell, veteran defense attorney out of the atlanta

jurisdiction and doug burns, former federal prosecutor, now defense attorney in the new york jurisdiction. renee, let's talk about statements that misty croslin probably, most likely, made to the new friend who was paid by a private citizen to go undercover to get the truth about haleigh cummings. she's not a cop. she's not an undercover law enforcement. so anything she says to this woman, donna brock, can come in at trial. >> nancy, i agree with that and i also think even if it was a police plant, that those statements would come in also. there's no rules against somebody trying to set up somebody or trying to trick them into telling them the truth. >> you're right. doug burns -- >> off base. >> doug burns, you have to be in

custody, all right? you have to be a target before your miranda rights kick in. >> i agree with everything said except, though, if she's represented by a lawyer, law enforcement may not be able to put somebody in to get statements out of her. >> that's irrelevant here because this wasn't law enforcement. >> i know. i'm saying -- but renee was saying you can do it willy-nilly. i'm not so sure i agree. >> is there any possibility that she left the home that evening and hasn't told you? >> if there is a possibility of it, i don't know anything about it. dddddddddddddd

what time was haleigh last seen by anybody other than cummings and croslin? >> the last time i seen her was -- >> i didn't ask when you saw her. certainly you as the biological mother know the facts of this case, so when was she last seen by someone other than the father and the stepmother? >> that i don't know. >> have you asked her what happened? what does he tell you? >> i ask her, but that -- i don't get any answers from her about, you know -- i don't see -- what she's telling me is not inconsistent.

>> bottom line, you don't know where haleigh is in. >> bottom line. >> she pretty much tells me the same thing each time i ask her about it. >> she was the last one to see our daughter, and her stories just don't add up. >> i would have woke up if i heard any noise. i mean, i didn't hear anything at all. >> you've been in the trailer just like we have been and somebody pounding on the front door as close as her bed was to the front door, you would hear it. it's tip feet away. >> well, i think the children would have been more likely to hear it. >> i want to get to the bottom of what happened. one way or another i want my daughter to come home.

>> joining me right now, president and founder of klaaskids foundation, marc klaas is with us. marc, you went through much the same thing when your daughter, polly, went missing many years ago. how do you compare all of these peoples' behavior to what you think should be the gold standard? >> well, first of all, i didn't have somebody like tim miller come in and play dangerously with the lives of my family, insert his amateurs in and betray us on a variety of levels time after time. these are very vulnerable people that we're dealing with right here. there's a little girl that's missing. he's supposed to be running a search operation. i run a search operation, but you know what? he's putting us in jeopardy. he's putting me, he's putting every other organization that runs a legitimate search operation in jeopardy because we

require the trust and cooperation of law enforcement and the family whenever we get called into one of these cases and he's just breaking that down. if i were the putnam county sheriff, i would consider arresting tim miller for interfering in an investigation. i'm absolutely outraged by the things that i've heard tonight. now, before anybody gets too far off on misty here, and i, quite frankly, don't foldly believe her story either. let's remember, my daughter polly was kidnapped in her bedroom while her mother slept soundly only ten feet away. exactly the same thing happened to elizabeth smart and to daniel van dam. entire families slept through these kidnappings. as preposterous as her story may be, it's not utterly impossible. >> what about it, mark nejame? our the attorney for tim miller of texas equisearch. how did he come up with the concept, mark nejame, in response to marc klaas' questioning, to plant someone undercover against misty

croslin? >> what's outrageous is mr. klaas' statement. tim miller is here to help find missing people. >> if you can just focus on the question. >> and he's found his 102nd person today. you think outside the box. law enforcement was at a dead end. every effort being made to find this child who was either dead or missing was utilized, and to find a child, you use any legal means necessary. there's not a rule book that says you can only do it one way. he should be applauded to do whatever it took to help find a missing or dd child. to be criticized for that is wrong and outrageous. >> i want to go to our producer on the story. ellie, i want to go back also to what ronald cummings allegedly said. publicly he stands beside his new bride, misty croslin. privately, according to sources,

that would be miller, he threatened to blow her head off if she was involved? that doesn't sound like he believes her story. >> right. right. he did say that. he said, according to tim miller, he would blow misty croslin's teeth out there the back of her head if he found out she did it. ron cummings' lawyer said ron does not remember making the statement. if he did it was an emotional statement he said when he was upset, similar to on the 911 call where he said, if i find whoever did this, i am going to kill them. >> what about it, karen stark? psychologist from new york. >> i tell you, nancy, somebody may be very emotionally upset but don't necessarily start telling people they're going to kill them ar blow their teeth in or any of that stuff is going to happen. i really think this is such a travesty and such a circus that i'm waiting for the acrobats to come in. it's one ridiculous story on top of another.

it's all very ludicrous. what about haleigh? isn't she supposed to be the focus? not the fact that misty is covering up and not telling anybody anything. someone should be really, really paying attention to what happened to her, what can we do to find out about her, and forget about all of who's killing whom and everybody blaming everybody else. >> to art harris at www.artharris.com. he's been there in satsuma for weeks on end investigating this story. what, if any, difference will the divorce make in? the last hours they have failed for divorce in a florida courthouse. >> nancy, it is keeping misty on edge, and that is hopefully what police are counting on to, perhaps, get, you know, some cooperation in the future. i can tell you she has met with police, with this undercover friend, and i'm told they told her, warned her that she could get life in prison if they're able to make a case against her. >> to dr. jennifer shu,

pediatrician and author of "baby and child help." what would be haleigh's needs? let's assume the child is still alive. >> so haleigh had a condition called turner syndrome which gives you small stature and it also -- ovaries that don't function. what can also happen is heart problem, thyroid disorder and diabetes. those types of things could be life threatening to the point where if she wasn't getting the regular medical care she needed she could get very sick and die in a short period of time. >> out to the lines. lina in arkansas, hi. >> caller: hello. >> hi, dear, what's your question. >> caller: i was wondering when misty's brother went there that night -- if he said he knocked on one door and couldn't get a resporngs did he not go to the other door? wouldn't people naturally check the other door? >> good question. marlaina schiavo? >> not go to the second door, nancy, he only knocked on the front door according to him.

>> to sheryl in michigan. hi, sheryl. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> hi, dear, what's your question? >> caller: first off, i love your show. i have a question. if they suspect that misty told her mother and brother anything and they have them in custody, how come they haven't charged them with anything after the fact? >> hold on. repeat the question, sheryl? if the mother and brother know something, why haven't they charged them? >> caller: or threatened to charge them after the fact? >> charge them with what? >> caller: knowing any information. after the fact. >> to renee rockwell and doug burns. in our jurisprudence and our legal system, renee, nobody is under a duty to be a good samaritan and come forward. if you're under oath on the stand and lie, that's perjury. if you're under oath on the stand and refuse to answer, that's contempt. but other than that, what else can they do?

>> nancy, i think it's interesting the dynamic you have now. you have mom that's in jail and she's got $100,000 bond. she's about to be brought down to florida. i clearly think that they will approach her and say, okay, do you want to get out of jail? you need to tell us something. look at it. her husband's gone. her friend's a plant from tim miller equisearch. her mother's in jail and her brother flipped on her. >> doug burns, is there any way these people, if they know something, can be charged with not giving it up? >> the distinction is that as you said it perfectly, you're not required as a good samaritan to come forward. if you conceal information, then it becoms a felony. the police asks, did you speak to mr. a, b, c -- >> what if you don't say anything at all? >> if you don't say anything at all you're absolutely right. everyone, quick break. to tonight's safety tips. over 1 million people are victims of stalking every year. nearly always by somebody they

know. if someone repeatedly calls you, follows you, sends you unwanted e-mails, letters, threatens you, randomly shows up where you are, leaves unwanted gifts, you're being stalked. if you are in immediate danger, of course, call 911. otherwise, please document all of these incidents. save the voicemails, letters and any correspondents like e-mails and file police reports. tell everyone you know so the stalker cannot get access to personal info like your location, your plans. stalkers are unpredictable. if someone follows you, don't go home. go to a busy area and get help. for information go to safehorizon.org.

authorities are desperately searching for two mentally disabled teens who disappeared friday night. the teens, charles lockard and donna kiernan were seen friday headed out for a walk. 100 searchers including firefighters, emergency management workers and volunteers spent the weekend

serge serging the area for the teens. workers went door to door and used search dogs hoping to find any clue to lead them to the teens. police will continue to search for the pair who have a sixth grade mental capacity. >> straight out to bob matthews, news director wvpo news talk 840960 a.m. bob, what happened? >> basically, these two youngsters were getting together on friday night. they were going over to visit the young man's grandmother. the family was gathered outside the grandmother's house and charles lockard sister went inside for a couple minutes and when they came back outside both lockard and his girlfriend, donna marie kiernan were missing. they thought, maybe they took a walk or wandered into the woods. the family started to look for them around the property then started to panic when they couldn't find them. then lockard's father was running into the woods and said he heard his son screaming out, screaming out and all the sudden the screams stopped and he started to panic. however, they didn't call police

or fire officials until the next day as they continued to look around the property to try to locate the two youngsters. >> bob matthews, joining us from wpvo from strasbourg, pennsylvania. what did the father claim to have heard the son calling out? any words? >> he said he heard him calling daddy, daddy, daddy, and then all of the sudden he said he heard it again and then the third time he said he heard daddy, dad -- and it stops abruptly. that's when his father became worried and started searching frantically. >> to matt zarrell, producer on the story. what can you tell me about their mental disabilities? >> the boy, charles, he's got the mental capacity of a third grader and donna has the mental capacity of a sixth grader, nancy. >> back to bob matthews. bob, what more can you tell me? what is the type of area? where are they missing? number two, why did they wait until the next day to call police? >> let's talk about the area

where they went missing. it's a rural development and there are, you know, woods and swamps and bushes and cliffs out when you get into the deeper terrain. other than that there are houses mixed in amongst the trees. it wasn't like they were out in the middle of the forest. basically what happened, i guess from what i heard, there are conflicting stories back and forth as to why they didn't go to the police right away. some said they were nervous. some said they, you know, thought they would find them on their own. didn't want to alarm authorities. when the youngsters didn't come home and they couldn't find them, that's when they panicked and said we better call somebody and called state police and the penn township volunteer fire company. >> bob, that doesn't make sense. what would they be nervous about? >> some people involved in the case, and, again, this is just hearsay. i got this information from a third party. said that they had had some activity in the past with law enforcement, but they didn't

really go into specifics or details. some people speculate they may have been afraid to go to authorities because they may have thought they were going to get into some kind of trouble. >> to mike brooks, former fed with the fbi. what do you make of it? i mean, these are two teens with the minds of a sixth and a third grader. they are helpless. >> absolutely. d.c., if we were looking for them, even if they thought they might have run away, nancy, or whatever the circumstances could be, it would be classified as a critical missing person because of their mental capacity. you know, this whole delay in calling 911, it just doesn't add up to me. doesn't make sense. you know, it could cost these children their lives for not calling the police when they should have called. >> to marc klaas, founder of klaaskids foundation. your expertise is looking for lost children. what should be done? >> mike hit the nail on the head when he said the delay in contacting law enforcement may

have been a critical mistake. one of the things they can do right now is ask all property managers, all real estate agents, farmers, ranchers, anybody that has access to unoccupied properties or outbuildings to please go and check those properties to see if the kids might be there. although they do not have -- although their mental capacity is challenged, they certainly understand the need to get shelter i'm sure. i think that would be one place to start and that might end up solving the case. >> back to bob matthews, wpvo. bob, i had heard a report, but i want to confirm this with you, there are a lot of vacation homes in that area. there's about 3,000 homes is my area. is it true one of the homes appears to have been used by the two teens? they've been in there? >> yeah, nancy. the latest information we have from state police, there are a lot of homes in that area that unfortunately had been foreclosed upon. there are vacant homes in the indian mt. lakes development.

police say based on eyewitness accounts and people who saw these two youngsters that they had stayed in one of the homes saturday. when they went to investigate the youngsters were already gone. the teens had left the home. police are saying right now they think they are still somewhere within the development, but that's why, you know, with a program like yours and others, are still trying to get the word out in case, you know, they manage to slip their way out of indian mt. lakes and are out and about somewhere. as you mentioned a short time ago, the elements up there, the temps are supposed to drop into the low -- down around freezing. maybe into the low 307s, upper 20s by the weekend. it's imperative they find the youngsters quickly. these homes probably don't have the heat turned on and the electricity turned on. >> everyone, we are talking about two teens with the mental capacity of a third grader and a sixth grader. if they don't find shelter, they are in the elements.

they are completely helpless and missing now for several days. tip line, 570-6462271. how do people like this make their way in society? a 3rd great mentality and 6th grade mentality? they get support and need to have people around them helping them and the nice thing is they found each other so they can support each other. what concerns me is the fact that -- >> they have fallen prey to a predator, they are moral support to each other and it won't account for much. can the family be held responsibility for not reporting them missing for so long? >> this can amount to not reporting a 3rd grader and a sixth grader missing. >> i want to wish a happy birthday to texas friend, sue.

she never misses a show. sue, happy birthday.

charlie lockard and donny kiernan, 18 and 19 years old respectively are mentally challenge and comprehend at the 6th great level. they went for a walk in the indian lakes development friday afternoon and didn't return. >> just want her to come home. that's all i want. or at least call me, please. let me know it's okay. i will come and get her. >> i just want her home. she is my daughter. she is my baby. donna, please come home. please. >> these two children need your help so desperately.

they look like teenagers, but they are mentally handicap and have the mind of a 3rd grader and 6th grader. if they can't find shelter or have fallen prey to a predator, god only knows what happened to them. the tip line, 570-646-2271. hi, elaine. >> caller: hi, nancy. i love your show and watch it every day. >> thank you. >> caller: your children are so beautiful. i want to know why it took the parents so long to report them missing and also would they know their phone number or address or know a way to get home? >> to bob matthews, would they know enough to know their address if they are asked? >> everybody keeps talking about a mental capacity of a 3rd and 6th grader. they are sharp and functional and donna kiernan loves school

and she is a sharp girl so hopefully, i don't know for sure, but hopefully they know. >> weigh in, doctor. >> a 4-year-old or 5-year-old knows their phone number or address. i would expect they would know it. whether they have access to a phone, i worry about that. you can go two days without water and get dehydrated. i worry about hypothermia and getting injured in the woods. it's important to find them quickly. >> let's stop and remember marine lance corporal derek gardener, 20. san juan capistrano, california. killed iraq. from a long line of vet who is served in both world wars, korea and vietnam and loved fishing with his dad and knot's berry farm, pro wrestling and the dodgers. favorite music, rap. leaves behind ken and vicki and fiance, april. his beloved jack russell terrier. thanks to our guests, but

especially to you. our thoughts and prayers with florida friend, legal analyst and veteran lawyer, bill schaffer. spinal surgery today. bill, stay strong and we are praying for you. everyone, i will see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. until then, good night, friend. i'm aj hammer in new york. here's what's coming up tonight at the top of the hour. the jaycee dugard miracle. look at the woman kidnapped as a child and allegedly sexually abused for 18 years. tonight, why a big star is attacking jon and kate's handling of their eight kids and even using the word abuse. that is your news break, tv's first most provocative entertainment news show at the

top of the hour.