-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com breaking news tonight, a million-dollar mansion, tv show, personal stylist. a fleet of luxury cars. beautiful people. eight beautiful children. they had it all. tonight, allegations of daddy siphoning the very last drop of the family's money to support all his girlfriends, and his lavish lifestyle. siphoning to the tune of $250,000. allegations of illegal wiretapping, phone taps, bank account, computer surveillance,

by daddy, a known computer specialist. charges of drug use, x-rated sleepovers with a female bartender daddy allegedly hired to baby sit in the home with the children asleep upstairs. and that's the tip of the iceberg. bombshell tonight, just hours ago, gosselin in court claiming wife, kate, secretly stashing $1 million. and after gosselin rides that gravy train for years putting his children on tv, now claiming he no longer wants them "exposed." is that because the show's now kate plus 8, not "jon & kate plus 8"? both tell the judge the other's a deadbeat, wellching on child support. didn't we all know it would end in court some day? is daddy headed to the big house?

>> what happened today? can you tell us? >> no. i've never been to court before. >> are you going to proif the accounting that the arbitrator asks for? >> she says jon took $230,000 out of the account. >> you've left your children and their mother unable to pay for the roof over their head. it's not acceptable. >> jon claims he only took $22,000 out. >> she's making claims that she can't back up. if she said i took $230,000, where is the bank statement to prove it. >> no, no, no. it's not a he said/she said. he cannot tell us his last withdrawal? >> what do you respond? can you guys talk about that at all? >> you can't have it both ways. you can't make all this money, put your kids on tv, and then now when she's making the money say, huh-uh. >> it's not about the money, it's about getting my kids off

of tv. >> why was it okay when you did it? >> i wasn't -- >> broke? >> no, i'm not broke. i'm not broke at all. >> and tonight, mommy and a local l.a. bus stof waiting for the bus. her 3-year-old little boy asleep beside her. the bus pulls up, mommy gets on, leaving the baby at the bus stop. she never comes back. sex predator, stalkers, dope addicts, who knows who would show up on the next bus. but mommy didn't care, she just kept on riding. los angeles police are investigating the case of a 3-year-old boy abandoned at a bus stop in the middle of the night, whose mother is now missing. 3-year-old xavier nelson was left by a woman at a south los angeles bus stop at midnight on

friday. >> lapd released this video to the media in hopes someone would recognize this toddler. and someone did. an gel l thomas says her mother called her from the southland, saying she saw her grandson on tv. >> my heart dropped. i was about to cry. not just because i saw him, because of the story that they were telling. >> a witness observed the child sitting next to a woman when the bus arrived. the woman then got onto the bus and left the child behind. the witness yelled to the woman to tell her she forgot the boy, but the boy just waved him off. >> angela said the last time she saw her granddaughter and grandson was a week ago. >> 17-year-old victoria may be in danger, and could have been forced to abandon her child. >> victoria would never, ever put her child in harm's way like that. she would never do that. unless there was a reason, and the reason was has caused harm on her. >> good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. a quarter million dollars gone. allegations of illegal

wiretapping, hacking into bank accounts, cell phones, claims of x-rated sleepovers with the eight children asleep upstairs? "jon & kate plus 8," it had to end in court. >> all eyes on a montgomery county, pennsylvania, courtroom where these charges kate gosselin brought forward. >> he took $230,000 of the $231,000 that we had. >> she claims we don't have money. she has 11 other bank accounts. she made $1 million off her book. for her to call me a criminal by stealing money, that she thinks i stole? it's just-open it's gotten so ridiculous. >> there are very good aspects of being a control freak. i persevere. i will not lay down and dye. >> i took less than 10%. less than 10% from march until now. less than 10%. where is the $2 million? $2 million? >> what's important is the children and not these two

self-absorbed husband and wife who argue constantly in front of their children. >> that's why they're coming off- >> that's why the show is coming to a halt. >> the abysmal behavior on the part of both of these parents, and particularly jon, is revictimizing these children on a regular basis. the whoeld world's watching this thing absolutely aghast. >> please, people, stop interfering in our lives. we know what's best. >> do you feel he's abandoning his kids by moving to new york city? >> i don't understand why he's not living down the street. if he's got to get a divorce, if you two can't work it out, why do you want to move away to new york and be that far away from your children 1234. >> i have business in new york. i have contacts in new york. i'm proceeding to do other career things. if i had to buy a hotel room, you know, no one's footing the bill for that. it's expensive enough. i have to move on with my career to support my children as well. >> even if we disapprove of the way he's behaved, those children

love him. and they need their father. >> both parties in court just hours ago, and it ain't pretty. straight to max even page, senior news editor, radar online. maxeen, what happened? >> they met today privately with the judge. jon was ordered to pay back $180,000 he had taken from the joint savings account, and kate was ordered to account for $55,000 that she said was for household bills and expenses. >> let me get this straight. susan moss, ray giudice, richard herman. he's ordered to pay back $230,000 and she is ordered to account for money. what about it, sue moss? >> return the cash or face a backlash. look, when you start off a case by stealing money, everyone thinks you're a stealer. this was the worst possible move for jon, not only pr world, but also in terms of his

divorce/custody. because no one's going to trust him. no one's going to trust his word and no one's going to trust his actions. >> back to maxine. so he's ordered to pay back the $180,000. did he try to explain to the judge why he took the money? >> he said that it amounted to his paycheck. he hasn't withdrawn any money, and that it's basically what he's owed for the work he's done with tlc. >> jane velez-mitchell, host of "issues," author of "i want," jane, what can you tell me? >> the big question is, nancy, does he still have the 180 grand. we know he lives a very lavish lifestyle. he has two fancy cars, a bmw and a mercedes. he also has a bachelor pad that's kind of expensive. he also has flown across the pond. he's been in the south of france. popping champagne. he has girlfriends. he has a very lavish lifestyle, the rich and famous kind of lifestyle.

so if he's blown the money, how will he get it back. because if he doesn't return it, he'll be held in contempt of court. >> what about it, gold? >> struck back in his own court filing saying kate is hiding at least $1 million worth of the family's money. he wants to know where it is. jon gosselin saying kate hasn't paid over $75,000 a month for child support. he wans to know where she's spending her money. >> back to you, maxine. both of them have to pay $7,500 a month child support, the mom and dad both have to pay child support, correct? >> they pay it in a joint account and draw the household expenses from that account. >> we are taking your calls live. but first, i want to introduce a special guest joining us tonight. she's joining us from cnbc. it's suze orman, financial expert, best-selling author. i can't say enough about her. you can see her every saturday

night, cnbc. suze, what should they have done? other than allegedly bringing home the bartender and sleeping with her upstairs while the children are somewhere else. and buying the girlfriend a porsche suv, things like that, just the obvious. you can skip over that. but what should they have done so this would not end in court? to me, it's a simple matter, you bring in the checks and you say, see? i've been paying my child support. why are we having to argue about this? >> here's the thing, when it comes to money, when you're in a state of hate, nancy, people do absurd things. they do not do logical things. they never will. so the truth of the matter is, for the people watching this right now, on some level, i actually don't care what jon -- what they all do. i care what people in america are going to do with their own money. and they need to look at this as an example. you need to set up separate accounts. you need to have a joint account. but you can never put yourself

in a position where somebody can take money from your account. and if you set up an account as joint tenants with right of survivorship, one person can rob the other account totally clean. and it doesn't matter. so don't do that to people. >> what about all the confusion? i've got a checking, a savings and a college fund for the twins. boom. why do they have 12 accounts between them? >> well, first of all, they have eight children, correct? >> right. >> the thing is, how do we know that the money that those kids earn, because those kids earn money, nancy, where is that money? that money should actually be set up in such a way, truthfully, one for each kid, that neither jon nor kate can take it out both both signatures. i've learned my lessons. i know i made mistakes. i'm apologizing for them now on

national television. i'm a public figure, i do realize that now that i have to apologize to the public as well as kate and the kids. when i get home, i will apologize to her.

you're clenching your jaw, jon. >> that's because it's cold out. >> why are we talking about you? she asked you about your children. >> i don't know. i just thought, you know, you needed -- >> that's a good place to start. >> i did not take $230,000. i took $22,000. i have nothing to hide. >> the whole media mess makes it worse than it is. >> for years, jon, you had your children on tv on a reality show. but suddenly when it's no longer "jon & kate plus 8," it's "kate plus 8" you suddenly have a problem with it and want it all to come to an end. i don't believe that. >> regardless of the timing, i am their father and i will do what's best for the children. >> i know personally for myself and the kids, it continues to be a good experience. >> the timing is irrelevant. >> you've got your lawyer here afraid to answer questions? whatever. >> the kids are just playing in front of the cameras. >> now she's thinking the

american public's going to believe her over me? i had to defend myself. >> why do you want to move away to new york and be that far away from your children? >> why do you feel you need to be in new york? >> i have business in new york, i have contacts in new york, i'm proceeding to do other career things. if i had to buy a hotel room, no one's footing the bill for that. we have a corporate account, which she's talking about. and we have a housing account. both have checking and savings. the corporate account is where my tlc paycheck goes to, and every week i withdraw in that account, just like anyone else. i have proof right here that i only took $22,000, which is my paycheck. in arbitration she was supposed to account for $470,000 that she hasn't accounted for. she disobeyed a court order. she has 11 other bank accounts. she made $1 million off her book. let me also say that i pay $7,500 per month for the kids,

utilities, two mortgages, and everything else that needs to be paid. she's not even talking about that account. >> what he failed to mention is that she's paying the same amount of child support that he is. and not only that, suze orman, financial guru of cnbc, best-selling author, did you see him just then tell mary hart, who was so not believing it, did you see her going, mm-hmm. he just said i only took $25,000, when a judge ordered -- >> from his corporate account. >> that the judge ordered him today to pay back $180,000. >> here's the point. you look at this man, obviously, we could all think whatever we want to think about him. but there was a point, nancy, when kate looked at him and said, i love you, i love you, i trust you. let's have babies together. and that's true with everybody throughout the united states. you look at somebody, you say, i love you, and you trust them.

i'm telling you, everybody, watching us right now, don't think this can't happen to you. not to the magnitude of what you see happening with jon and kate. but you have got to know where your money is, you have to have separate accounts. you have to really have an understanding so that this can never happen to you. because jon can be anybody that you know believe it or not. >> we're taking your calls live. but first, take a look at what kate had to say on nbc "today." >> the last thing i wanted to do was this show and not end up being able to pay my bills. i willingly brought it forward and split it with him when we had our meeting. so he took the $50,000 and did whatever with it. i paid bills with my $50,000. and once the court arbitrator stepped in, i felt like the money -- i had to put it back. i didn't feel like it would be safe, to be honest. >> straight to the lines to brenda in utah. hi, brenda. >> caller: hi. thank you for taking my call.

>> thank you for calling in, dear. what's your question? >> caller: well, i don't like either one of them, but i think people are being a lot nicer to her than him. i think they're both despicable. do the children have guardian ad litems? >> excellent question. sue moss, raymond giudice, richard herman. i have never heard of a guardian ad litem appointed four the children simply for their interests. >> i haven't heard either. they have to have one, because they're generating fees based on the program. there has to be some sort of guardian ad litem. these two train wrecks, nancy, i believe they staged this. he's going to put the money back. they're in the news today. they're going to generate money. this is the only way they can generate money. they have no skills. they have no talent. this is it. >> giudice? >> i agree with richard and agree with miss orman. there should have been trust accounts set up for these

children, not random checking accounts. >> put the lawyers up. i notice that both of you defense lawyers, neither one of you are tackling the potential criminal charges. >> you can't steal your own money, nancy. he walked out of court on his own. he's going to pay that back. if he doesn't, he may have criminal intent. >> what i was saying before i was so rudely interrupted, hacking into cell phone accounts, text messaging. to mike brooks, wouldn't that qualify as a felony? >> it depends on the law in the particular state. it may, it may not. they are husband and wife. it's not like it's boyfriend/girlfriend stalking each other. >> jon and kate need to go into therapy and learn to quit arguing and set a good example for the children. >> are you seeing any problems? >> i'm not a professional, but the hardest thing i ever did was tell them that we were getting divorced.  dddddddddd

they love the camera crew. they love all those guys. they make nicknames for them. you know, the p.a.s, the production assistants there. they play with the kids. we all get along and play together. and it's like a family environment. that's how we work together. it's comfortable for the kids to film. that way there's no animosity. i mean, that's the way it is. >> you put your children on television for years but now suddenly you stick a sign on the house that says you can't film here anymore? is it because it used to be "jon & kate plus 8," but now it's "kate plus 8" and you're not making any more money? >> absolutely not. i will always make money, and i'm not doing it for the money.

i'm doing it to restore family values. i'm -- >> say what? >> i'm doing it to restore family values. i want to -- >> i never thought i'd hear gosselin say he's restoring family values. now, that's a whole other nut to crack. but it's not just a poster anymore. both sides in court just hours ago duking it out in front of a judge, and gosselin files a cease and desist order to tlc to stop filming. i want to go to dr. laura jana, pediatrician, author of "heading home with your newborn: from birth to reality." we see the children acting out more and more. what effect is this having on them? >> you know, nancy -- excuse my lack of voice here. but i certainly have something to say. you know, i think suze said it best. these poor children are living in a state of hate now. and that's never a good environment for children to be raised in. when we're talking about signs that may -- you know, we may see with the children, acting out is certainly one of them. some physical signs, headaches,

stomach aches, problems with eating and sleeping. all those things can be the result of the stress that comes with living in that hateful environment. >> out to the lines. crystal in massachusetts. hi, crystal. >> caller: hi, nancy. i'm so honored to be finally getting through to speak to you. >> well, crystal, i'm honored that you called in. thank you. what's your question, dear? >> caller: actually, i have a comment and a question. >> okay. >> caller: my comment is basically it's amazing to me that they have this type of money to even be arguing about from showing their kids on tv. and i do think it's going to be horrible for them as they get older. but my question is, in court is it actually -- did it have to be proven to the judge where these children's money is? i would think that would be important to the judge. >> i agree. out to child advocate susan moss. explain. >> absolutely. that's probably not coming up in the first instance because they've got some emergencies to deal with, aka the missing money and getting the missing money back. but as this case progresses, what the judge is going to do,

or in this case the arbitrator, is going to look to see what happened to the children's money? is it being segregated? is it being wrongfully included with the parents' money? and if that is in fact the case, then you're really going to see some criminal prosecution. >> to jane velez-mitchell, hln host of "issues." jane, he said to my face that he had business in new york. you know, apartments in new york, a tiny apartment that's this big is about the same amount that you would pay in other cities for a four-bedroom, three-bath, with a backyard, with a white picket fence around it. okay? so he has a new york apartment, a nice -- a nice crash pad. all right? it's a pretty good crib there. so, what business? what business does he have? what job does he have? he's not on the show anymore. >> he doesn't have a job, and they've stopped taping. and of course, you saw that sign, that infamous sign where,

your even not going to tape here anymore tlc. and i think that's the whole essence of this struggle, is that he doesn't want to be cut out from the show. so -- >> he is cut out from the money. >> -- he's using his kids as a bargaining tool to either get a payoff or get back on the show. that's my theory. >> to senior news editor radaronline.com, maxine page, i do know he is making a multitude of personal appearances for money. in fact, this past weekend he was at millions of milkshakes. it's a milkshake stand in west hollywood. i believe they've named a milkshake after him. now, maxine, take my word for it. he did not show up for free. >> oh, there's no way he was there for free. he's been turning up all over the place. he's been in vegas. the media blitz he did recently. i think it's one of the main reasons that kate's lawyer has filed for alimony and child support because they want to know where this money's going. >> now, it's my understanding also, clark goldband, he's also on the story, that he wants alimony from her.

you know, that's pretty uncommon that the man gets alimony from the mother. >> that's exactly right, nancy. and in fact, we're talking about money that jon says he's owed and hasn't been paid over some months. jon gosselin also saying that in fact all the money is not being accounted for. and nancy, he is really honing in on small details against kate in his latest court filing where he strikes back, in fact even saying kate owes $60,000 from this, took $5,000 from this. so really going after her tit for tat. >> to samantha, south carolina. hi, samantha. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> what's your question, dear? >> caller: i was wondering -- my question is on kate, how she went on the "today show" and complained that she couldn't pay for her bills. how could she not make enough money to pay her bills, even with the $230,000 missing? >> suze orman, could it be true? >> it could be true. but i just don't think so. i think she was being incredibly dramatic there.

she only has $1,000 left and she couldn't even pay the bills that were in her purse. oh, give me a break. she has many accounts. she has said so. don't tell me that she didn't have money somewhere to be able to pay those bills. but it sure made great tv, didn't it? >> sarah in virginia. hi, sarah. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> hi, dear. what's your question? >> caller: yes. i've watched this show, jon and kate, all the time. and everybody's down on jon. has everybody forgot about how she mistreated jon all through that show? >> you know what, sarah? i've had a lot of people bring that up. but my concern, sarah, is not who was the good guy or the bad guy in the marriage. all right? my concern is, is there criminal wrongdoing, and will all this jiggering of the money somehow affect the children? and my guess is it will.

you know, i'll give it to you, sarah in virginia. she was not always nice to him. all right? there, does that change anything? you're seeing video of "jon & kate plus 8" on tlc. i want to talk about, very quickly, mike brooks, former fed with the fbi, headline, hln law enforcement analyst. i want to talk about how he could have -- and he is an i.t., information technologist, was for the state of pennsylvania. so he's no idiot. how can someone hack into a computer -- they're separated. all right? they're divorcing. it's not like they're man and wife living together anymore. and i don't know if even then you can lawfully hack into somebody else's e-mail, cell phone, checking account. but how do you do that? he gets an e-mail notification every time she gets an e-mail, sends an e-mail. he knows about all of her texts. at least that's what one of his girlfriends claims he told her. >> exactly. that's a claim.

but nancy, if he had her sign on, let's say for her cell phone number, which also would include the text messaging, he can go in, take a look at the calls, how long they lasted, look at the text messaging on where the text came, how long that lasted and back and forth. and then do a little bit of searching. it doesn't take much. on the number, he can find out who she's talking to. now, it's going to be difficult to see exactly what was said unless you get a subpoena and go to that particular carrier. but when it comes to the bank accounts, you know, he's an i.t. -- you can go in and just over and over again look for different passwords. a lot of people are good at figuring that out, and if he is an i.t. specialist -- >> just let me stop you, mike. >> sure. >> what the claim is, is that he could read all of her e-mails and her text messages. now, how is that possible? >> he can go in and manipulate the account to say okay and -- basically clone it. basically clone the account so he gets notified and blind copied and she'd never know it.

>> out to lee in virginia. hi, lee. >> caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. longtime fan. >> thank you for calling in, dear. >> caller: i am calling in because i'm curious. i know this is a reality-type show, but do the children fall under the jackie coogan law to protect their assets from their parents? >> excellent question. what do we know about that, raymond giudice? how can they be protected financially in court? >> nancy, earlier it was talked about a guardian ad litem and i threw out the idea of trust accounts for these children. the difference in the jackie coogan case is when he was a child actor his contracts paid him and the parents wasted and squandered the money. i don't know if the children under the contracts are direct recipients of any money. >> what about it, herman? >> ray is right on, nancy. right on the point, right there. >> you're supposed to be a defense attorney. what do you have to say in defense of jon and kate? >> what i'm saying is aren't your hard-working fans nauseated how much money these people make? it's unbelievable.

>> if you listen to your heart and do what's right. she needs to break away from tlc, be her own person, speak from her heart, be the kind person that i know she can be, and let's work this thing out.

the boy's grandmother said the child's mother, 1-year-old nelson, hafb in danger and forced to abandon her son. the grandmother says she hasn't seen her daughter, victoria, in over a week. >> a 3-year-old baby boy left at

a bus stop. mommy takes off and literally never comes back. to misty reed, what happened? >> i'll give you a time line of what we know based on reports. victoria nelson is 17 years old. on, i believe it was the 5th, she actually told her mother, identified as angela thomas, that at noon, she was going to take xavier, 3 years old rlgs to the mall. angela thomas, victoria's mother, never heard or saw from them again. she reported them missing the next day, the 6th. well, the boy turns up at that bus stop in south l.a., just after midnight friday morning. a citizen, what we're told, is a transient actually tried to tell victoria she was forgetting her child as she got onto a bus. but she waved him off. so he sat with the sleeping xavier for about an hour before

he finally called police. >> so a transient, homeless person basically tried to tell the mother, hey, hey, you're leaving the baby, and she shoed him away and got on the bus and took off? >> that's what the police said, that the witness told police she said. he stayed there for about an hour before he finally turned him over, which is really lucky for that little boy that man was nice and kind to do that. that could have been anybody. >> that could have been anybody. a child sex predator, a parolee. it could have been anyone. a dope dealer, a drug addict. god was with xavier that day. to stacey newman, our producer on the story, what can you tell me about her myspace? >> well, her myspace basically, just a typical teenager type myspace page. one interesting quote she had on there said, i'm so damn young, but i do it like a pro. very grown for a 17-year-old girl.

>> what can you tell me about the little boy? who's got the little boy now? is he back with the grandmother? >> he is not back with the grandmother tonight. he's actually with cps tonight. grandmother, i believe, is probably trying to work out some custody to get this child. >> but didn't the mother and the little boy live with the grandmother already? if there was not something wrong in that home, don't you think, stacey newman, the child would be back in the home? >> i do. and actually, i think police are trying to just sort out what is going on in that home. because also we've learned this is not the first time that victoria has taken off with her child. >> let's unleash the lawyers, susan moss, ray giudice, richard herman. anybody could have picked that child up and here she is on her myspace whining that she's too young to have a child. it's too late for the whining. >> this child learned the hard way that the wheels on the bus go round and round. but there's a sibling, a little

baby, an 11-month-old child, and that child will also be taken away from her custody. maybe family reunification will work and maybe the grandmother will get custody. but only after we check and make sure that these people aren't a danger to both these kids. >> i just don't understand, dr. del tito, how you can leave your child sitting there and just looking back at it, just get on the bus and leave. >> there's some people who lack empathy, lack sympathy. and remember, we don't really know what happened. maybe she was in trouble. maybe someone was after her. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. pick del tito up. no one says forced the woman on the bus. >> i'm just saying we should keep an open mind. chances are there is not a caring mother who is worried about the kid. but it could have been at the moment someone was after both of them. she thought the kid was safer just not with her by her side. there's just too much -- >> judge, wait a minute.

wait a minute. >> yes? >> she had the grandmother at home where the child lived, where the other child was. so you are actually telling me with a straight face that she could have thought it was better to leave the child with a homeless man at a public bus station in south l.a. than at home with the grandmother? >> i leave open the 1% possibility that maybe she saw someone in the bus station, someone was following her, she thought she was -- >> please put him up. >> they may hurt the child. i'm not saying i believe that's the most likely scenario, but there may be a scenario like that boiling around here. in all likelihood, she was someone who abandoned her child, plain and simple because of her own, who knows, headonistic interests. but we don't know. i think we should keep an open mind. >> i know what the witnesses said. and the witnesses said, ray giudice, richard herman, susan

moss, that she sat undisturbed at a bus stop with the child who finally fell asleep. a bus came up, she got on, they tried to show her, you're leaving your child, she shooed them away and left the boy and never came back. a 3-year-old child. what's she looking at, herman? >> we don't know this was the mother, nancy. we don't know who this woman was that got on that bus. we don't know victoria nelson is is alive. let's let the investigation take part. >> would you like to try to take a stab at the actual question, ray? >> nancy, every greyhound bus station, trailways, has videotape. there will be videotape showing how long she was there, who, if anyone, she talked to, her demeanor. coupled with that facebook quote, i see casey anthony syndrome here. thank goodness the child is healthy and well taken care of. >> to misty reed, with kern 1180, they are saying bus station.

i thought it was a bus stop? >> yeah, it's a bus stop. it was on the corner of florence avenue and broadway specifically in south l.a. >> and that is right on the street. that child could have stepped right out into the street. stre. >> that's correct. but as the report says, he was asleep on the bench when she did leave him. >> to maria in new mexico. >> caller: hi, nancy, i can't believe i'm talking to. i want to say i greatly appreciate everything that you do for the kids and i appreciate it so much. >> thank you. maria, thank you. >> caller: i really do. >> i cannot take any credit. i really can't. you know that i'm a crime victim. >> caller: no you give us stuff straight and tem people like it is and given them the truth even though it hurts and i think that's great. my question is, who actually found the baby like did someone get the baby from the police --

>> stacey, tell us again how the baby was saved. >> the baby was saved by a homeless man who was sitting at the bus stop. he watches the mom took off, she looked him in the eye, waved. he waited there a full hour hoping she would come back. when she didn't, he took the little boy to lapd.

lapd released this video to the media in hopes someone would recognize this toddler. and someone did. angela thomas says her mother called her from the south land saying she saw her grandson on tv. >> my heart dropped. i was about to cry. not just because i saw him, because of the story that they were telling. >> a witness observed the child sitting next to a woman when the bus arrived. the woman then got onto the bus and left the child behind. the witness yelled to the woman to tell her she forgot the boy but the woman waved him off. >> angela said the last time she saw them was a week ago.

>> really feeling down deep in my spirit that maybe it's something bad has happened to her. and that's -- maybe that's the reason why this person sat xavier on the bench. >> straight out to doris. hi, doris. >> caller: hi, nancy. how are you? >> good, dear. what's your question? >> caller: i'm asking -- i'd like to know why the baby wasn't automatically turned over to the grandmother? because, the child was already traumatized when he woke up and was in the arms of a stranger but then to be placed with child services. i know there are federal laws, nancy that, says children should be placed with biological relatives before they are placed with strangers. >> to mike books with the fbi, why do you suppose, you've dealt with these type of cases, mike brooks, the child didn't good to the grandmother. >> well, this has happened before. i think she's right law enforcement is sorting this out to make sure they aren't putting the child and sibling back in a

home in danger again. >> misty reed there is another sibling in the home, right? >> there was an 11-months-old up until today living with the grandmother and was taken as well from cps this morning. they haven't released details for why. as of right now, none of victoria's children are with any of the biological relatives. >> everyone a tipline 877-527-3247. let's stop and remember army private first class justin davis, just 19, gaithersburg, maryland, awarded the bronze star, purple heart, army service ribbon, lost his life hours after calling home to wish someone happy birthday. dreamed of college and becoming an acor. remembered for a million dollar smile.

an only child and leaves behind parents paula and dennis. justin davis, american hero. thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us, good morning from georgia friends of the show, galen, john, amy, jennifer, aren't they buttefu beautiful? to top of all off, alana and her bulldog, harley, never miss a show. thank you to connecticut friend rose for these beautiful little hats and mitttens for the twins. they love them. it's not even cold yet. everyone, i'll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. until then, good night, friend.

-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com

if you thought jon and kate's marriage was ugly. wait until you see the divorce. then, richard belzer new york's favorite detective, he's a knead can, too joins me to discuss, among other things, his new book "i am not a psychic" actress and author valerie bertinelli will be with me in the studio. she's fun, thin and speaks her mind all this and more tonight. is that the -- that's the, uh -- >> welcome to friday.

i don't know about you but i have a long week and i want it to end. lucky for all of us, our long national nightmare is also at an end i'm talking about jon and kate. now, sources say the tlc show is being put on hold until the ex-couple work out their differences. this is really crushing me. joining me to discuss this and so much more sarah bernard "new york magazine" contributing editor, danny bonaduce, actor and radio tack show host in philadelphia and judy gould comedienne extraordinaire. welcome to the shore. >> thank you, joy. >> is that show finished, please tell me it is. >> it very well may be. jon has stopped filming. they have a couple episodes through november but from stuff they have taped they are stringing together. i think why he is trying to stop it, because he really wants to star in a show of his own. and believe it or not he is teaming up with michael lohan,

as in lindsey's father. >> another bargain. >> right. >> to do a show called the divorced dads club. >> oh, god, that's going to be a hit, dobt you think? >> i don't know. >> may want to watch. >> that do you pay attention to this story of jon and kate. >> i have been. i find it fascinating anyone would want to like lay out their dirty laundry like that, it's unbelievable. >> i do it for a living. that's my job to lay out dirty laundry. >> he wants to bar the tlc cameras from filming his kids. >> when he was on the show, he didn't want to bar them. >> exactly. >> now it's kate plus no one now. >> it's a vendetta thing. to be honest, i pretty much did the same thing, i did a reality show with my family at the end of which i ended up getting a divorce and they said we'll put it on hold until they work out their differences so, i will be ten years before you ever seen that woman on television with me again. so, jon & kate plus eight is dead. >> they both were kind of problematic, put it that way.

i mean, he's a bad guy in many ways, he cheated on her and took money from her. she was a shrew on the show, though. who do you like better? >> really hard to know who to like better. i think the thing is they are not actually going away. you know, she's taped a pilot for tele pictures for a talk show already. >> oh, yeah, with paula dean. >> and i believe someone else we know. >> you are in the pilot, too. >> perhaps. >> perhaps. >> kind of like "the view" a rip-off of "the view"? >> i have no idea. >> that's what my sources tell me. >> i can make an educated guess. no matter what move she's making today, they're both gone. >> you think they will be a thing of the past. >> they are already a thing of the past, nobody told them yet. >> i understand jon loves the jew, his girlfriend is jewish and he may be converting to judaism. >> i heard the same thing about mel gibson. >> i want to turn to the first lady of california. tmz snapped photos of her

driving talking on her cell phone illegal since her husband, governor schwarzenegger signed a law banning it last year. if arnold can't even get his law to follow the law, how is he supposed to control california? >> you know, this cracks me up. >> why? >> first of you a -- because a guy passes a law and -- who the hell is she talking to? >> to her kids. >> probably the kids. >> i think it's hilarious, her getting back at him to being a fake rep clublican. >> you think he's a democrat? >> i do. >> i think it is completely overblown yimplsts? >> i was caught at one of those red-light cameras talking on my phone, drinking with mice mistress in the back seat and thought, it's really not that big of a deal. to be honest, governor schwarzenegger while governor of the state of california was pulled over on his motorcycle which he has done for year and not in possession or ever possession in possession of a

motorcycle license. se reported in the paper saying there will be swift action at my house tonight. there will be swift action between me and my girl at my house, doesn't mean she will be reprimanded. >> oh, boy, danny, macho man. >> she's younger than i am. >> by the way, she's donating the phone to charity. >> maybe she's not going to get another phone. >> i think she needs a phone. >> how will that work. >> maybe the $70 will be better to bail out the state of california. >> is she donating it to m.a.d.d., mothers against dialing. >> moving on to david letterman having an awkward conversation with tina faye about sex wednesday. take a look. >> did you even know about this? maybe i shouldn't bring this up. >> i happened to be reading one of these magazines. >> virgins into their 20s. >> yeah. >> and says various -- eold virgins. >> wait a minute, it says you, tina faye. >> yes. we don't have to read that. >> 24 here. >> 24. >> well, this is nothing wrong with that, is there? >> no.

>> and -- >> couldn't give it away. couldn't give it away. >> cute, isn't she. >> working for letterman, she probably would have had it done before. >> is letterman going to come off his creepy every time this topic of sex comes up now? how long is this going to go on, do you think? >> i think a long time. i mean, he looks like a creepy old guy, don't you think? >> do you really think so now? >> i love him but i'm sorry just the elephant in the middle of the room but at least he acknowledges it. >> it's certainly a difference of opinion, i think possibly between genders because i look at him and go, i can't get the creepy old guy still gets laid, look at thamplsts he's a hero. >> a hero to lots of people. >> a hero to you. >> yeah. >> is he to you, sarah? >> i think this whole thing will last about five more minutes. i think it helps his ratings. first of all two weeks ago he was killing everybody else and number one. i think this is only when we get over it a little bit will only help him. i think cbs will definitely renew his contract and this is not going to be the end of letterman. >> i don't think so, either.

>> what's the point of having your own show if you are not sleeping with the staff. >> that's so retro. >> i want a deli tray and sleep with one of the producers. >> joy is sleeping with the sound guy. >> but, you know, i just think he's not a politician, a comic and that's what happens on these shows. >> they are talking about gloria alred is talking about it and her daughter, lisa bloom, one of them is saying about favoritism more than harassment because the other girls are not sleeping him with and on tv getting after-scale. that's the problem. >> i don't think gloria alred, if you are going to talk to somebody, she actually turns the screws on people, an entirely different subject. she's just bitter about the whole thing. >> it is interesting the men, practically ever man who discussed it on my show this week they think it is just fine. the women have issues. >> i have noticed that women have issued and i don't have that much of an issue with it but they are really pissed off at him. >> but you're not pissed, are you? >> this is not a joke i'm being dead serious and honest with you

i've had three television shows in the last several years and i've slept with a member of every single staff and i don't think one of them wouldn't say it was a pretty good damn time. >> how long is the extortion case going on with this other guy. could he have cashed that check for $2 million? >> i think he believed he could. actually, that's the best part of the story. >> do you recall think so? he seemed just in pain but the girlfriend was cheating on him and everything. >> with letterman. >> isn't this guy, though, a respected producer of a respected news show. >> yeah. >> who walks into a bank with a check for $2 million, by the way, can i have a million back in cash, please? >> he's a little out of -- >> a little out of it. >> on the other hand he's a single guy and available. thanks everybody. richard belzer when we come back.

and i'm back with my fabulous panel. let's talk about the magazine "teen vogue" okay in hot water for putting an unmayor ed pregnant 19-year-old jordan dunn on the cover. you are in the magazine industry. is somebody like really losing it over there at "teen vogue"? >> not really i have to say i sympathize with "teen vogue" in this situation. i bet they booked this model, actually the first african-american model to run the prada runway since naomi campbell. it ended up after this photo shoot they found out she was actually pregnant and due in december. that was a tricky situation. if they actually had canceled it

they would have gotten a lot of coverage for the fact they canned this pregnant unwed mom. >> -- after she has stretch marks. >> don't hold your breath. >> she's 19 years old. while that is young that, is not as young, say jamie lynn spears who starred in an nickelodeon show. >> or someone else's daughter, sarah palin's daughter. >> she's in two protected classes -- three, african-american, female pregnant woman. you ever try to fire that lady? >> she's a model and weighs 12 pounds. anything, a grape would show as pregnancy. >> it depends how you look at those things. rush limbaugh screaming the liberal democrats, you know, the kind of western civilization like i am the father of a teen-aged daughter you don't mind showing them look, you really do end up pregnant. you should be very careful. i applaud them. >> -- saying it's okay to be pregnant if you are unmarried.

everyone is complaining that these days. >> or if you're beautiful. >> exactly. >> -- their readership is not 19 but 14, 15. it has gotten the conversation going. so that might be okay. >> that's good it opens the doors. >> is it okay to be pregnant and not married? am i behind the times on that? >> yeah, it is. >> i heard it is. >> well -- >> if you are republican and your -- >> in "time" magazine a new study it pretty much jumped about 30% since the '70s unmarried pregnant women. >> i didn't say it was bright. >> -- not the greatest thing financially. >> i don't think it is immoral but impractical. >> it is impractical but a lot of women want to have that baby it's -- >> evolution. >> but think about it. i have two kids, it's annoying. >> you know now. >> you warned me, joy. and you were right. >> and you're lesbian. you didn't even have to do it. >> i know. i went way out of my way. >> oh, god. >> meanwhile, let's go to another story. across the atlantic, "french

vogue" in hot water. they did a photo spread of a white super model laura stone in blackface. judy who is their editor, rush limbaugh? what do you think of that. >> blackface is coming back. i asked the makeup people to do blackface on me but they didn't have enough time. i don't understand. what is the point? it is blackface with white lips isn't it? >> very insulting to african-americans. >> i don't understand. >> well, if it is not insulting to african-americans than everybody owes ted danson a huge apology. >> that's right. >> if, on the other hand it is offensive we need to dig up jolsin and tell him -- >> that was a long time ago. >> when was it okay? >> it could be a given in a way because they were that dumb. >> the first amendment will cover you unless you are trying to incite insurrection. i think they are trying to incite an err reks. >> -- on australian tv they did

this whole thing a turkish news reporter in blackface reporting on obama. >> an episode of "mad men" one of the characters was wearing blackface but i think also of the context of the "time" trying to point out that was offensive and wrong. i think what's bizarre about this "french vogue" situation there is absolutely no context. we can't really tell is she doing this to be funny or what. >> i don't know, i don't know. they are crazy. they just want to sell magazines. one more story, the obama administration in the middle of a heated feud with fox news, predictcly glenn beck brought the feud for-to-a whole new and ridiculous level. listen to this. >> when they're done with fox and you decide to speak out on something, the old "first they came for the jews and i wasn't jewish" when they're done with fox and talk radio, do you really think they're going to leave you alone if you want to

ask a tough question? >> okay. before we discuss this, can i just point out that calling the president a racist isn't a tough question. it's not even a question, you idiot. it's a declareative. okay i'm back with my panel. >> a mental patient this guy. he is out of his mind. >> isn't it triflalizing the holocaust a little bit. >> a little? >> i know you're not jewish, joy -- sarah, you are jewish. >> i am. >> i don't want to be involved. >> i don't want to be involved with glenn beck. >> why drag the jews in. >> we always get dragged into everything. >> it is horrifying and shouldn't be thaen lightly when he says when they're done with fox news and compares it with the holocaust, the holocaust is just a word. six million people were gassed to death. how dare he say that? how dare he make -- you know what. >> but he's making. >> let me just tell you this. >> -- the point is, at least. forget about the jewish part. >> -- whatever he wants about

whomever and there's no censorship but the minute someone says something in retaliation, then he brings up the holocaust. >> then he's a victim. >> he is a victim. >> he is rooting for the first amendment in a certain way. >> but i'm not -- i think he blurs that line because it's after a while you blur the line between news and entertainment and there are only a few things having a big recession only things are recession-proof in my opinion, drugs, prostitution and entertainment and i'm for all three. you know, i think that's what he's doing. >> what's interesting what the white house is going to do about this. the more attention they pay, the more ratings he gets. so, it's just the kind of tricky situation -- >> is he a ratings idol for you, danny. >> he is an idoll of mine because he is in recovery for alcoholism and the second he started talking, i have been in recovery for years, i immediately started drinking again. and i really would like to thank him for that, for going the other way. >> do you see a trend? rush him because, oxycontin?

>> i do. >> glenn beck, alcoholic, danny bonaduce alcoholic. >> -- exalcoholic, drinker, no kidding. >> -- ex-chic. >> literally jumping off the wagon? i jumped off. >> when you are an alcoholic or drug addict and quit you really still have that addictive personality and have to put it someplace else. where did you put it? >> back in the bar, where is belongs. >> where did you put your addiction, what are you addicted to now? >> talking on the radio. >> talking incessantly, it's horrible. >> glenn beck's addiction may be more publicity, getting more publicity. >> why do republicans align themselves with people like glenn beck and rush limbaugh, these zealots. >> who is aligning them? >> the republicans. >> they are not exactly aligning. >> they don't say anything. >> right. >> they don't say anything. >> because they know they have a base, like sarah palin, they knew she's dumb but has a

tremendous base in the republican party. >> i think that is exactly the right analogy. they handled her so well because they didn't attack her as much as they could because they knew it was just going to add fuel to the fire. if they keep attacking him and pointsing this out other and over the communications director does that he will gain and they will lose. >> i thought it was interesting that rush limbaugh, who such a conservative, of course. >> he is? >> took so much oxycontin he went death but that is god blessing him so he doesn't have to hear his show. >> that's funny, danny. >> thank you. >> you want to be a comedian. >> i heard that. >> thanks all for coming. i enjoyed this. you did have fun. >> i did, thank you. >> thanks to my entire panel. steven baldwin joins me next. don't go away. what a night!

my next guest is from hollywood royalty and he and his family play a big role in the breast cancer fight through the carol m. baldwin breast cancer research fund. joining me is actor steven baldwin. if you are hollywood -- welcome to the show. >> thank you. >> if you are hollywood royalty before we get to the cancer conversation. >> yeah. >> who is the king in the family, alec? come on. >> oh, without question. >> without question. he's the king. >> i just got asked the question if i ever seriously knew the large amount of money who would i go to? i said alec. he's got the most and it would probably be bail money and it would be, you know, at least

five million so i'd have to go right to alec. >> all right. now your family is very close talking about your mother's illness. she survived cancer. >> sure, 19-year survival, absolutely. >> must have been difficult with all the children to have a mother who was very ill with breast cancer. tell us about that a little bit. >> well, when my mom was diagnosed it was a year before my wedding, which i've been married 19 years. and, you know, she didn't say anything in typical baldwin dysfunction kept her mouth shut and didn't want to ruin the wedding. gosh, mom, thanks now we find out you have breast cancer but it was pretty far along. she eventually had a double mass ekt tommy and a tremendous crusader since. >> when was the fund started, how long ago. >> over ten years ago. >> what's your part in the organization. >> there's two chapters an upstate syracuse organization and downstate long island organization. daniel and myself work on the upstate one and alec and billy do most of the stuff on long

island. we do golf tournaments and events and black tie galas and a motorcycle ride mom puts on the old pink helmet and rides in a sidecar of a harley davidson. >> a wacky group but they are fun, the baldwins. >> yeah, you know. >> do you get along with each other. >> very well. >> do you fight with alec politically? because he doesn't agree with you on politics. >> i'll put it this way we hanging out a few months bang and he said who would ever thought, i said what. he said little steven or born-again, conservative and republican. i said, i'm a registered independent. he said we're all know you're a republican sympathizer. so, you know. >> and you're a born-again christian, too, do you think? >> that's correct. >> do you think god has helped your mother get better? >> absolutely. >> you do. >> i think god is sovereign and allows and doesn't allow for things to happen so if she's still here i would say it's his will. >> see, i don't understand that when people talk like that

because there are a lot of bad things that happen in the world, too. is god responsible for the bad, as well as the good? >> no, god allows the bad. he allows the bad. >> what do you mean he allows the bad? >> god allows the devil to do what he does. >> the devil. >> yeah. >> what does the devil look like. >> yeah. >> do you have children. >> i do. >> did you displen them. >> never. >> she was a wonderful child. >> you asked me before the program, was i scared of you. >> were you scared of me. >> when you do that, i git scared. >> what are you scared of? >> you are ferocious, joy. >> i'm ferocious? alec is not afraid of me. >> alec is alec. >> i wish he would come on the show more often. >> has he bn on yet? >> not on this show he was with me on larry king. >> he'll come on. >> he'll come on but talk but. >> how much he loves me and how much fun we have. >> okay, kid, nice to have you. i hope i didn't scare you too

much. >> no, i survived. >> aim a very nice question. i just have questions that i ask all the time. ddddddddd

you probably know my next guest as detective munch the longest running character on prime time but may not know the actor richard belzer is also a comic and author. his new book "i am not a psychic" and he joining me now. how, richard. >> hi, darling. i hope people knew i was a comic. maybe not an author. >> time marchs on. >> i know, i'm 73 now. >> i mean, let's talk about those days, do you miss them? >> you know what, i remember when i first started out, you know, "catch a rising star" those clubs, the improve, not

having any money sleeping on my brother's couch, yeeting columbo yogurt because it was only 50 cents. even though i was doing it, i knew this is the only thing i could be doing at that point and i kind of looked at the romantic show buzz -- you know, i'm in show business, even though, you know, i was cynical and bitter and all that i still had this sense of magic and romanscism about it. >> about comedy. >> no, you asked me about the early days. >> the early days. >> which were hard, but i'm glad. >> being an stand-up you had a fantasy how great it would be or -- >> just, you know, being in a nightclub and it's filling up and band is playing and smoke in the air. that, to me, way wanted to be, i wanted to be in that world, you know. >> i've had a few comedians on the show already. some of us have had difficult childhoods. mine was pretty good. larry david said the childhood was fine it was the adulthood that was difficult. did you have a hard time as a kid, did that prompt you to be funny? >> well, that's an old cliche that people say, oh, comics have

suffered. you're a good example. you weren't abused as a kid. >> not at all. i was adored my issue. >> you are incredibly funny and were able to do that. my feeling is this whether i was abused or not and i was whacked around a little bit as a kid more than average but i think i was funny anyway and maybe the pain and all that stuff brought it out there but it was always there. you don't become brilliantly funny because somebody abused you. >> no. >> it has to be indigenous to your being. >> but a defense in a way to protect you. >> absolutely. if i wasn't funny, i may have found another way to, you know, defend myself. >> there is a new study that came out a couple weeks ago that said kids who are spanked have a lower i.q. >> many other things, too, about spanking. along those lines, i saw this book years ago i wish i could remember the name of it, someone went around to visit people who hid jews during the war. >> yeah. >> and in different countries. people hid jews they went and interviewed them and found two

or three similarities between them. the first one was none of them thought of themselves as heroes. they said, you know, it's another person, you know. and some of them really imperilled their lives and families and hid jews. the other thing was virtually every single person who hid jews was not hit as a child. >> not hit. >> which means they weren't afraid. >> that's interesting. >> isn't that fascinating? >> yeah, wow. >> because if you are hit as a kid it's wired into your head, your brain, even as an adult you're going to get hit. i've had problems for years sleeping at night because i'm, you know, i'm 105 years old but up until, i don't want to say how recently hi trouble sleeping because on some level i thought she's going to come in on some level and beat the [ bleep ] out of me. >> really? >> it wasn't logical what she did. >> the mother. >> yeah. >> the mother hit you, not your father. >> my father bebrujingly hit me. charlie go kick his [ bleep ]. >> your brother, too. >> we were both whacked around.

>> the comedy in your case might have been a way of survival. you know? >> absolutely. >> when you're having a tough time as a kid, you know, even in school i used to be funny in class because the teachers would scare me. >> were you bored. >> i was bored, also. i would start trouble and talk to people and start also talk -- conversations. which they pay me now do, same thing i was doing there. >> i said, now i get paid for way got thrown out of school for. >> let's talk about, you are a big conspiracy theory person. >> yeah. >> yes. >> so, hillary clinton brought up the vast right wing conspiracy in '98. >> yeah. >> she said it is this vast right-wing conspiracy that has been conspireing against my husband since the day he was announced for president. but, this last september, bill clinton said it's still alive, okay? >> yeah. >> he said it's not as strong as it was because america's changed demographically but as virulent as it was. what do you think about all that? is there really a right-wing conspiracy in this country?

>> i think it's an open conspiracy. it's common knowledge that think tanks and publishers on the right will buy anne coulter's book to get on the best seller list and fund films saying bill and hillary killed foster, get in bed so to speak with the religious right and demonize the left. it is clear from day one they hated clinton and tried everything they could do to destroy him. if it's a conspiracy it's an open conspiracy. >> do you think there's a conspiracy against obama now? >> well, it's not a conspiracy. it's on television every day. this is semantics. there is no -- the right-wing has a common interest, which is to destroy obama and put their party before their country. that's what they've chosen to do. and i think the cat's out of the bag now. we see, you know, cheering when we don't get the olympics and demeaning the nobel prize. >> right chchlt has is so un-american. >> and question where he's born. >> yeah. if every single republican in

the senate does not vote for health care reform, then, you know, it's like they shouldn't exist as a political party. that's the most callous, heartless mean political expediency playing on the worst fears of the elderly and the poor. they are the most despicable pieces of human [ inaudible ] -- >> do you think the american electorate is now catching on to that? >> no. >> or not? >> no. american people are always -- always have been and always will be moderate to left, not moderate to right as people like to believe. every survey i've seen since the '60s, if you ask somebody would you pay a little bit more for clean air, yes, a bit more for good health care, yes. what you are going to do give the firemen a bill? is that socialism, the socialist fire department, you are not going to parks or public hospitals, highways? this whole thing using the word "socialism" which, by the way was a good thing and that's why hitler named his party socialism, the connotation was everybody shares in the success of a nation. >> not everybody, not everybody in his case. >> huh? >> not the jews in his case.

>> i mean he used "socialism ". >> yes, i know. >> i'm not saying the way he used it, i'm saying the way it was known before he used it was an all-inclusive thing. in france they have what you call social democracy. you have free enterprise, you have capitalism but you also take care of the disenfranchised. it's not a mystery. it's this rabid right thing -- >> what about the racism. >> but i have no opinion on this. >> what about the racism question on obama? you said i'm concerned there are still serious issues of race relations for example as explefied in the sotomayor confirmation hears and arrest of professor gates we need to better address and be brutally honest about. >> yeah. >> people do skirt the racist issue, i think quite a bit. they'd like to say it is still not a racist country but in a way it is, isn't it? >> in a big way it is. they are still red lining in banks. you still see health problems among the blacks and hispanics and poor people that people of means don't have the same health problems.

we put pollution next to poor neighborhoods. i mean, there is so much discrimination that's just built into the fabric of america. but, also, 70 million people that we know of, maybe more, voted for obama. >> yes. >> and this is a triumph for this country, which is steeped in this -- >> but will it hold, will it hold, do you think? that's what i worry about because his approval rating went down and it is -- >> that's because he's president. not because he's black. >> okay. >> although some people are trying to tie the two together. i think the fact he became president will, first of all, i think every black kid in america is one inch taller now there's a black president so self-esteem for that alone it is a great thing. i think his presidency symbolically is just as important as politically, what he represents. >> right they are always saying he is not doing anything. bush did so many wrong things it is nice to take a break. too much negative action. >> well, i disagree in that roosevelt, you know, was fighting a war and, you know, rebuilding the country and doing

50 things at once. he could either do health care or the economy. the health care is the economy. >> well, he is -- i have hope he'll get -- speed this up a little. thanks. >> like lincoln, a team of rivals that argue with him. >> i have to go. >> go ahead, baby. great to see. >> drew: "i am not a psychic" and in stores. up next the beautiful and talented valerie bertinelli stops by. stay right there.

earlier this week the beautiful and talented valerie

bertinelli stopped by to discuss her new book "finding" so of course my first question was, what did you find? >> i'm still finding it. >> what is it it? >> exactly. i'm just -- the whole weird thing about maintenance and finding what, um, caused me to put the weight on, what's going to -- what i'm going to find to help me keep it off, just finding it in my weird bizarre life which isn't probably so weird because a lot of people have the same so stories going on in their life. >> highly relatable, are you kidding. you also talk about your marriage to eddie van halen, great rock star. >> yeah. >> and cute guy and everything. >> uh-huh. >> how long was that marriage. >> i think we were married 20 years but separated for some of it. i don't know, i've known him for almost 30 years. >> uh-huh. wow, i can't believe you have -- it's that long. >> yeah. >> i was just looking at you. >> well, august of 1980 we met. so 29. >> time goes by so fast. just yesterday monica lewinsky was just a little girl under the desk. >> i just want to know why she

didn't clean the frickin' dress. really, are you disgusting, or what? clean the dress. golly. i send my clothes to be cleaned if they get dirty. >> looney, tunes. >> disgusting. >> let me ask you something a bit of a discussion about extra-marital affairs in this book usually the reason people break up. that's it. this other baloney. >> by the time i get -- >> i need my space, that's a bunch of baloney. >> right. >> somebody is waiting in the wings. >> right. >> so, what happened there? >> i think by the time you start having affairs, something's obviously quite broken in the marriage. so, it obviously something was quite broken in our marriage early on but, you know, we kept up the good fight and we didn't quite make it. >> who was cheating on who? >> you know, do you have to know who, when, where, when? we have a little thing going, ed thinks i did first and i'm thinking he did first but we don't know all about the timing. >> almost like the same conversation about why we eat. people stray. >> yes. >> in a relationship for an

emotional reason, usually. >> because you are not being emotionally fulfilled in whatever relationship you're in. >> either that you are just a horny dog. >> that, too and in your 20s. >> i'll refer you to governor spitzer, for example and some of these other dogs we keep reading about. >> edwards yeah. >> they are out there hounding it up. i think with women there seems -- >> we know how to hound it up once in a while, too, unfortunately. >> but we usually have a reason. >> so we are given a get out of jail free card? no. no, no, no, no, no. >> you think women cheat in the same way men cheat? >> i think cheating is cheating and it's wrong and you shouldn't do it. i can speak from experience having been cheated on and having cheated. and the feeling, it feels worse for me to have cheated, that feeling of the pain i inflicted on somebody i didn't ever want to do again. the good thing i'm in relationship i know i don't ever want to hurt that man. >> you learned the lesson.

>> -- if i think i can't be monogamous with which i really seriously doubt -- let's not good there -- he's really good in bed. >> better than van halen was? you don't have to answer that. >> oh, my god, my parents are watching this. oh, i'm sorry, pop. i love you. hi, mom. i'm still a virgin. right? >> you're like a virgin, okay let's put it this way. >> right. i had a child. 18 years ago. >> yeah. but what was i saying. >> i don't know. >> about extramarital. >> let's go get a drink. >> the thing about mon om me when you are under 40 it is monotonous, really the truth. >> i guess who you are being monogamous with. >> it is difficult to stay monogamous when you are under 40. >> absolutely. >> you are still finding it. >> yes, whatever of that it may be, right. >> so, else that the real reason. >> that's why i think getting married at 20 was really stupid and i don't suggest anybody do that. i think you -- i think more

mature love that i'm going through right now, i'm like i'm with my buddy. i really, i enjoy his company. he's my best friend. i -- i don't want to hurt him. first. >> first of all you named your song wolfgang. >> william, van halen. >> you left out the bertinelli, fortunately for him. this could take a year to say his name. >> poor guy. >> but really after mozart didn't you. >> were you lying in bed one night post-orgasmic and said wolfgang that's the fame for this kid? is. >> i love the movie and loved the way she fld wolfy, wolfy, that's really cute and trying to come up with a name very van halen, his father's name was jan, spelled j-a-an. i didn't think that would cut it in america. >> how about robin van halen. >> no. >> tom. >> tom van halen?

frank. >> how about salvatore? >> salvatore, yes. nazzarino, van halen. >> i think wolfgang really determines the kid had to be in the business with your husband and he is now. >> he is in the business with his dad. he got in the business, he got the gift a vomit mouth. >> what instruments does he pay. >> started on drums at 9 and picked up the guitar when he was 12 or 11 and his dad asked him to start paying the bass. >> he's talented. >> very talented a beautiful singing voice and -- there's my boy. >> which one is he. >> that one. >> oh, he's cute from the side. >> a big boy and he is now teaching himself the piano. >> teaching himself. >> and he kicks [ bleep ] in rock band. >> does he sing, too? >> yes, he does, he sings -- >> what was that whole thing about him being a virgin. you think he is. >> really, seriously? you want to talk about that? >> it's funny o to me. >> i got a text from my son we're watching "the view" now,

are you still speaking to me. >> were you teasing about that. >> i was. i was. >> he's now 18. >> 18 years old. still a virgin, right. >> he might be or might not be. it's none of your business. >> it's not. as long as he's -- don't want to talk about it. >> this happened today, you also don't want to talk about it. but is it here in the book. >> i talk about the sex talk and the sex talk ed half with wolfy. >> were you listening to. >> yeah because it was on the road and we were listening in the dressing room and i could hear ed talking and if you have ever met my husband -- ex-husband, he has this gravelly voice, wolfy, so when you -- what, all of a sudden he's in the mafia but he has this gravelly voice and saying be careful with what do you with your heart and protect it but once you fall in love don't protect so much you don't let anybody in and protect her heart and treat her with kindness and i'm like this is all the stuff i would say. >> that's beautiful. >> and be careful of the [ bleep ] and whores and

bitches. >> i wouldn't have put it exactly that way but good information for him to have. >> yeah. >> because i've run into [ bleep ] and [ bleep ] in my lifetime. >> i bet you have. >> oh, yeah. >> you are

volleyball valerie bertinelli and her boyfriend are here with me. >> i don't want to do the seating chart. everyone gets mad at you. >> how about you?

do you want to get married? >> she hasn't asked me yet. >> if she asked you, you would say yes? >> i didn't say that. >> where do you two meet? >> at my brother's house in scottsdale, arizona. my brother and his wife. we were going to a wine event. and i keep my wine in the freezer, especially in scottsdale, where it's hot. >> in the freezer? >> yeah. >> you suck on ice cubes? >> you get it out before it gets too cold. i take it out before it gets too frozen. he was in front of the freezer. and i saw a guy in a tux. and i was like, oh, baby. and i said, oh, hello, i'm valerie. and he goes, i'm tom. >> what did you think about a big star like her coming on to you? >> it was difficult. i had to get used to it. i just plowed her with

champagne. >> he did. every time my champagne glass would go down to here, i had another one in my hand. that was before jenny craig. >> he met you and fell in love with you before you lost the weight? >> yeah. >> i love that. that's a keeper. >> he's a keeper. >> that's a keeper. >> i was big, too. i was 220. >> yeah, but on a man, it doesn't have the same effect. >> his belly's not big anymore. >> we had a couple of e-mails for you, questions for you from e-mail. there was a question from -- >> you can read that without glasses. >> i'm older than you, believe me. check with "people" they print it every month. >> if they didn't print your birthday, wouldn't you be offended. >> they're ridiculous.

this woman, janice, i am on -- >> italian. >> she write, i'm on a very low calorie program and i'm worried when i get back to real food. how did you handle that and are you still on jenny craig? >> yes, i'm still on jenny craig. she has to turn her head around. if it's a superlow, i don't know how much weight she has to lose. as you start to incorporate other food into your program, and as you get to a maintenance level, you can up your calorie point but not to a point where you go back to your bad behavior. >> but you're off the packaged food -- >> no, i still eat it. i like it. >> but not 100%. >> no. some days i do eat it 100%. i'll want to have a nice, clean day and i'll do jenny all day. >> valerie, i just love you. i think you are just adorable. tom, too, i think your just a wonderful little couple. i love it.

thanks to valerie and tom and all my guests for joining me tonight and thank you for watching. good night, everybody.

breaking news tonight, a million-dollar mansion, tv show, personal stylist. a fleet of luxury cars. beautiful people. eight beautiful children. they had it all. tonight, allegations of daddy siphoning the very last drop of the family's money to support all his girlfriends, and his lavish lifestyle. siphoning to the tune of $250,000. allegations of illegal wiretapping, phone taps, bank account, computer surveillance, by daddy, a known computer specialist.

charges of drug use, x-rated sleepovers with a female bartender daddy allegedly hired to babysit in the home with the children asleep upstairs. and that's the tip of the iceberg. bombshell tonight, just hours ago, gosselin in court claiming wife, kate, secretly stashing $1 million. and after gosselin rides that gravy train for years putting his children on tv, now claiming he no longer wants them "exposed." is that because the show's now "kate plus 8," not "jon & kate plus 8"? both tell the judge the other's a deadbeat, welching on child support. the judge brings down the hammer. didn't we all know it would end in court someday? is daddy headed to the big house? >> what happened today? can you tell us?

>> no. i've never been to court before. >> are you going to provide the accounting that the arbitrator says, kate? >> kate says jon took $230,000 out of a joint account. >> you've left your children and their mother unable to pay for the roof over their head. it's not acceptable. >> jon claims he only took $22,000 out. >> she's making claims that she can't back up. if she said i took $230,000, where is the bank statement to prove it? >> no, no, no. it's not a he said/she said. he cannot tell us his last withdrawal? >> is the money going to go back in the account? the judge is pretty strong -- have you guys talked about that at all? >> you can't have it both ways. you can't make all this money, put your kids on tv, and then now when she's making the money say, huh-uh. >> it's not about the money, it's about getting my kids off of tv. >> why was it okay when you did it? >> i wasn't -- >> broke?

>> no, i'm not broke. i'm not broke at all. >> and tonight, mommy and a local l.a. bus stop waiting for the bus. her 3-year-old little boy asleep beside her. the bus pulls up, mommy gets on, drives away, leaving baby alone at the bus stop. she never comes back. sex predators, stalkers, dope addicts, who knows who would show up on the next bus? but mommy didn't care, she just kept on riding. los angeles police are investigating the case of a 3-year-old boy abandoned at a bus stop in the middle of the night, whose mother is now missing. 3-year-old xavier nelson was left bien unidentified woman at a south los angeles bus stop at midnight on friday. >> lapd released this video to

the media in hopes someone would recognize this toddler. and someone did. angela thomas says her mother called her from the southland, saying she saw her grandson on tv. >> my heart dropped. i was about to cry. not just because i saw him, because of the story that they were telling. >> a witness observed the child sitting next to a woman when the bus arrived. the woman then got onto the bus and left the child behind. the witness yelled to the woman to tell her she forgot the boy, but the boy just waved him off. >> angela said the last time she saw her daughter victoria nelzen and grandson xavier was a week ago. >> 17-year-old victoria may be in danger, and could have been forced to abandon her child. >> victoria would never, ever put her child in harm's way like that. she would never do that. unless there was a reason, and the reason was somebody has caused harm on her. >> good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. $250,000 gone. allegations of illegal wiretapping, hacking into bank

accounts, cell phones, claims of x-rated sleepovers with the eight children asleep upstairs? "jon & kate plus 8," it had to end in court. >> all eyes on a montgomery county, pennsylvania, courtroom where these charges kate gosselin brought forward. >> he took $230,000 of the 231,000 thx that we have liquid and i can't pay bills that we have. >> she claims we don't have money. she has 11 other bank accounts. she made $1 million off her book. for her to call me a criminal by stealing money, that she thinks i stole? it's gotten so ridiculous. >> there are very good aspects of being a control freak. i persevere. i will not lay down and die. >> i took less than 10%. less than 10% since march until now. less than 10%. where is the $2 million? $2 million? >> what's important is the children and not these two self-absorbed husband and wife who argue constantly in front of their children.

>> exactly. that's why they're coming off -- >> that's why the show is coming to a halt. >> why don't you stop and work on your marriage? >> exactly. >> the abysmal behavior on the part of both of these parents, and particularly jon, is revictimizing these children on a regular basis. >> the whole world is watching this thing absolutely aghast. >> please, people, stop interfering in our lives. we know what's best. >> do you feel he's abandoning his kids by moving to new york city? >> i don't understand why he's not living down the street. if he's got to get a divorce, if you two can't work it out, why do you want to move away to new york and be that far away from your children? >> why do you feel like you have to be in new york? >> i have business in new york. i have contacts in new york. i'm proceeding to do other career things. if i had to buy a hotel room, you know, no one's footing the bill for that. it's expensive enough. i have to move on with my career to support my children as well. >> do you think joint custody will work for jon and kate? >> i hope it does. even if we disapprove of the

way he's behaved, those children love him. and they need their father. both parties in court just hours ago, and it ain't pretty. straight to maxine page rngs senior news editor, radar online. maxeen, what happened? >> they met today privately with the judge. jon was ordered to pay back $180,000 he had taken from the joint savings account, and kate was ordered to account for $55,000 that she took that she says was for household bills and expenses. >> let me get this straight. let's unleash the lawyers. susan moss, ray giudice, richard herman. he's ordered to pay back $230,000 and she is ordered to account for money. what about it, sue moss? >> return the cash or face a backlash. look, when you start off a case by stealing money, everyone thinks you're a stealer. this was the worst possible move for jon, not only pr world, but also in terms of his divorce/custody. because no one's going to trust him.

no one's going to trust his word and no one's going to trust his actions. >> back to maxine. so he's ordered to pay back the $180,000. did he try to explain to the judge why he took the money? >> he said that it amounted to his paycheck. that he hasn't withdrawn any money, and that it's basically what he's owed for the work he's done with tlc. >> jane velez-mitchell, host of "issues," author of "i want," jane, what can you tell me? >> the big question is, nancy, does he still have the $180,000? we know he lives a very lavish lifestyle. he has two fancy cars, a bmw and a mercedes. he also has a bachelor pad that's kind of expensive. he also has flown across the pond. he's been in the south of france. popping champagne. he has girlfriends. he has a very lavish lifestyle, the rich and famous kind of lifestyle. so if he's blown the money, how will he get it back? because if he doesn't return it, he'll be held in contempt of

court. >> what about it, clark goldband? >> struck back in his own court filing saying kate is hiding at least $1 million worth of the family's money. he wants to know where it is. jon gosselin saying kate hasn't paid over $7,500 a month for child support. he wants to know where she's spending her money. >> back to you, maxine. both of them have to pay $7,500 a month child support, the mom and dad both have to pay child support, correct? >> correct. they pay it into the joint account and draw the household expenses from that account. >> we are taking your calls live. but first, i want to introduce a special guest joining us tonight. she's joining us from cnbc. it's suze orman, financial expert, best-selling author. i can't say enough about her. you can see her every saturday night, cnbc. suze, what should they have done?

other than allegedly bringing home the bartender and sleeping with her upstairs while the children are somewhere else. and buying the girlfriend a porsche suv, things like that, just the obvious. you can skip over that. but what should they have done so this would not end in court? i don't understand. to me, it's a simple matter, you bring in the checks and you say, see? i've been paying my child support. why are we having to argue about this? >> here's the thing, when it comes to money, when you're in a state of hate, nancy, people do absurd things. they do not do logical things. they never will. so the truth of the matter is, for the people watching this right now, on some level, i actually don't care what jon -- what they all do. i care what people in america are going to do with their own money. and they need to look at this as an example. you need to set up separate accounts. you need to have a joint account. but you can never put yourself in a position where somebody can take money from your account.

and if you set up an account as joint tenants with right of survivorship, one person can rob the other account totally clean. and it doesn't matter. so don't do that to people. >> what about all the confusion? i've got a checking, a savings and a college fundor the twins. boom. why do they have 12 accounts between them? >> well, first of all, they have eight children, correct? >> right. >> the real thing is, how do we know that the money that those kids earn, because those kids earn money, nancy, where is that money? that money should actually be set up in such a way, truthfully, one for each kid, that neither jon nor kate can take it out without both signatures. >> i've learned my lessons. i know i made mistakes. i'm apologizing for them now on national television. i'm a public figure, i do realize that now that i have to apologize to the public as well

as kate and the kids. when i get home, i will apologize to her.

you're clenching your jaw, jon. >> that's because it's cold out. >> why are we talking about you? she asked you about your children. >> i don't know. i just thought, you know, you needed -- >> that's a good place to start. >> i did not take $230,000. i took $22,000. i have nothing to hide. >> the whole media mess makes it worse than it is. >> for years, jon, you had your children on tv on a reality show. but suddenly when it's no longer "jon & kate plus 8," it's "kate plus 8" you suddenly have a problem with it and want it all to come to an end. i don't believe that. >> regardless of the timing, i am their father and i will do what's best for the children. >> i know personally for myself and the kids, this has been a good experience. it continues to be a good experience. >> the timing is irrelevant. >> you've got your lawyer here and you're afraid to answer questions? whatever. >> the kids are just playing in front of the cameras. >> now she's thinking the american public's going to believe her over me?

i had to defend myself. >> if you two can't work it out, why do you want to move away to new york and be that far away from your children? >> why do you feel you need to be in new york? >> i have business in new york, i have contacts in new york, i'm proceeding to do other career things. if i had to buy a hotel room, no one's footing the bill for that. we have a corporate account, which she's talking about. and we have a housing account. both have checking and savings. the corporate account is where my tlc paycheck goes to, and every week i withdraw from that account, just like anyone else. i have proof right here that i only took $22,000, which is my paycheck. in arbitration she was supposed to account for $470,000 that she hasn't accounted for. she disobeyed a court order. she has 11 other bank accounts. she made $1 million off her book. let me also say that i pay $7,500 per month for the kids, utilities, two mortgages, and

everything else that needs to be paid. she's not even talking about that account. >> what he failed to mention is that she's paying the same amount of child support that he is. and not only that, suze orman, financial guru of cnbc, best-selling author, did you see him just then tell mary hart, who was so not believing it, did you see her going, mm-hmm. he just said, i only took $25,000, when a judge ordered -- >> from his corporate account. >> and the judge ordered him today to pay back $180,000. >> here's the point. you look at this man, obviously, we could all think whatever we want to think about him. but there was a point, nancy, when kate looked at him and said, i love you, i love you, i trust you. let's have babies together. and that's true with everybody throughout the united states. you look at somebody, you say, i love you, and you trust them. i'm telling you, everybody,

watching us right now, don't think this can't happen to you. not to the magnitude of what you see happening with jon and kate. but you have got to know where your money is, you have to have separate accounts. you have to really have an understanding so that this can never happen to you. because jon can be anybody that you know believe it or not. >> we're taking your calls live. but first, take a look at what kate had to say on nbc "today." >> the last thing i wanted to do was this show and not end up being able to pay my bills. so i put money aside, willingly brought it forward and split it with him when we had our meeting. so he took the $50,000 and did whatever with it. i paid bills with my $50,000. and once the court arbitrator stepped in, i felt like the money -- i had to put it back. i didn't feel like it would be safe, to be honest. >> straight to the lines to brenda in utah. hi, brenda. >> caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. >> thank you for calling in, dear.

what's your question? >> caller: well, i don't like either one of them, but i think people are being a lot nicer to her than him. i think they're both despicable. do the children have guardian ad litems? >> excellent question. let's go back to the lawyers. sue moss, raymond giudice, richard herman. i have heard nothing about a guardian ad litem being appointed for the children simply for their interests. >> i haven't heard either. they have to have one, because they're generating fees based on the program. there has to be some sort of guardian ad litem. these two train wrecks, nancy, i believe they staged this. they survive on publicity. he's going to put the money back. they're in the news today. they're going to generate money. this is the only way they can generate money. they have no skills. they have no talent. this is it. >> giudice? >> i agree with richard and agree with miss orman. there should have been trust accounts set up for these children's education, future,

not just random checking accounts -- >> put the lawyers up. i notice that both of you defense lawyers, neither one of you are tackling the potential criminal charges. >> you can't steal your own money, nancy. he walked out of court on his own. he's going to pay that back. if he doesn't, he may have criminal contempt. >> what i was saying before i was so rudely interrupted, hacking into cell phone accounts, computer accounts, checking accounts, text messaging. to mike brooks, wouldn't that qualify as a felony? >> it depends on the law in the particular state. it may, it may not. they are husband and wife. it's not like it's boyfriend/girlfriend stalking each other. >> jon and kate need to go into therapy and learn to quit arguing and set a good example for the children. >> how do you feel? do you feel like you need therapy? >> i'm not a professional, but the hardest thing i ever did was tell them that we were getting divorced. dddddddddddd they said it would never last.

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but for 60. it's the longest-lasting plugins ever. get freshness that won't fade away for 60 days. ahhh! with plugins lasting impressions. and yes, it's glade. s.c. johnson, a family company. they love the camera crew. they love all those guys. they make nicknames for them. you know, the p.a.s, the production assistants there. they play with the kids. we all get along and play together. and it's like a family environment. that's how we work together. it's comfortable for the kids to film. that way there's no animosity. i mean, that's the way it is. >> you put your children on television for years but now suddenly you stick a sign on the house that says you can't film here anymore? is it because it used to be "jon & kate plus 8," but now it's "kate plus 8" and you're not making any more money? >> absolutely not. i will always make money, and

i'm not doing it for the money. i'm doing it to restore family values. i'm -- >> say what? >> i'm doing it to restore family values. i want to -- >> i never thought i'd hear gosselin say he's restoring family values. now, that's a whole other nut to crack. but it's not just a poster anymore. both sides in court just hours ago duking it out in front of a judge, and gosselin files a cease and desist order to tlc to stop filming. i want to go to dr. laura jana, pediatrician, author of "heading home with your newborn: from birth to reality." we see the children acting out more and more. what effect is this having on them? >> you know, nancy -- excuse my lack of voice here. but i certainly have something to say. you know, i think suze said it best. these poor children are living in a state of hate now. and that's never a good environment for children to be raised in. when we're talking about signs that may -- you know, we may see with the children, acting out is

certainly one of them. some physical signs, headaches, stomach aches, problems with eating and sleeping. all those things can be the result of the stress that comes with living in that hateful environment. >> out to the lines. crystal in massachusetts. hi, crystal. >> caller: hi, nancy. i'm so honored to be finally getting through to speak to you. >> well, crystal, i'm honored that you called in. thank you. what's your question, dear? >> caller: actually, i have a comment and a question. >> okay. >> caller: my comment is basically it's amazing to me that they have this type of money to even be arguing about from showing their kids on tv. and i do think it's going to be horrible for them as they get older. but my question is, in court is it actually -- did it have to be proven to the judge where these children's money is? i would think that would be important to the judge. >> i agree. out to child advocate susan moss. explain. >> absolutely. that's probably not coming up in the first instance because they've got some emergencies to deal with, aka the missing money and getting the missing money back. but as this case progresses,

what the judge is going to do, or in this case the arbitrator, is going to look to see what happened to the children's money? is it being segregated? is it being wrongfully included with the parents' money? and if that is in fact the case, then you're really going to see some criminal prosecution. >> to jane velez-mitchell, hln host of "issues." jane, he said to my face that he had business in new york. you know, apartments in new york, a tiny apartment that's this big is about the same amount that you would pay in other cities for a four-bedroom, three-bath, with a backyard, with a white picket fence around it. okay? so he has a new york apartment, a nice -- a nice crash pad. all right? it's a pretty good crib there. so, what business? what business does he have? what job does he have? he's not on the show anymore. >> he doesn't have a job, and they've stopped taping. and of course, you saw that sign, that infamous sign where,

you're not going to tape here anymore, tlc. and i think that's the whole essence of this struggle, is that he doesn't want to be cut out from the show. so -- >> he is cut out from the money. >> -- he's using his kids as a bargaining tool to either get a payoff or get back on the show. that's my theory. >> to senior news editor radaronline.com, maxine page, i do know he is making a multitude of personal appearances for money. in fact, this past weekend he was at millions of milkshakes. it's a milkshake stand in west hollywood. i believe they've named a milkshake after him. now, maxine, take my word for it. he did not show up for free. >> oh, there's no way he was there for free. he's been turning up all over the place. he's been in vegas. the media blitz he did recently. i think it's one of the main reasons that kate's lawyer has filed for alimony and child support because they want to know where this money's going. >> now, it's my understanding

also, clark goldband, who's also on the story, that he wants alimony from her. you know, that's pretty uncommon that the man gets alimony from the mother. >> that's exactly right, nancy. and in fact, we're talking about money that jon says he's owed and hasn't been paid over some months. jon gosselin also saying that in fact all the money is not being accounted for. and nancy, he is really honing in on small details against kate in his latest court filing where he strikes back, in fact even saying kate owes $60,000 from this, took $5,000 from this. so really going after her tit for tat. >> to samantha, south carolina. hi, samantha. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> what's your question, dear? >> caller: i was wondering -- my question is on kate, how she went on the "today" show and complained that she couldn't pay for her bills. how could she not make enough money to pay her bills, even with the $230,000 missing? >> suze orman, could it be true? >> it could be true. but i just don't think so.

i think she was being incredibly dramatic there. she only has $1,000 left and she couldn't even pay the bills that were in her purse. oh, give me a break. she has many accounts. she has said so. don't tell me that she didn't have money somewhere to be able to pay those bills. but it sure made great tv, didn't it? >> sarah in virginia. hi, sarah. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> hi, dear. what's your question? >> caller: yes. i've watched this show, jon and kate, all the time. and everybody's down on jon. has everybody forgot about how she mistreated jon all through that show? >> you know what, sarah? i've had a lot of people bring that up. but my concern, sarah, is not who was the good guy or the bad guy in the marriage. all right? my concern is, is there criminal wrongdoing, and will all this jiggering of the money somehow affect the children?

and my guess is it will. you know, i'll give it to you, sarah in virginia. she was not always nice to him. all right? there, does that change anything? you're seeing video of "jon & kate plus 8" on tlc. i want to talk about, very quickly, mike brooks, former fed with the fbi, headline, hln law enforcement analyst. i want to talk about how he could have -- and he is an i.t., information technologist, was for the state of pennsylvania. so he's no idiot. how can someone hack into a computer -- they're separated. all right? they're divorcing. it's not like they're man and wife living together anymore. and i don't know if even then you can lawfully hack into somebody else's e-mails, cell phone, checking account. but how do you do that? he gets an e-mail notification every time she gets an e-mail, sends an e-mail. he knows about all of her texts. at least that's what one of his girlfriends claims he told her. >> exactly.

that's a claim. but nancy, if he had her sign on, let's say for her cell phone number, which also would include the text messaging, he can go in, take a look at the calls, how long they lasted, look at the text messaging on where the text came, how long that lasted and back and forth. and then do a little bit of searching. it doesn't take much. on the number, he can find out who she's talking to. now, it's going to be difficult to see exactly what was said unless you get a subpoena and go to that particular carrier. but when it comes to the bank accounts, you know, he's an i.t. -- you can go in and just over and over again look for different passwords. a lot of people are good at figuring that out, and if he is an i.t. specialist -- >> just let me stop you, mike. >> sure. >> what the claim is, is that he could read all of her e-mails and her text messages. now, how is that possible? >> he can go in and manipulate the account to say okay and -- basically clone it. >> blind copy him?

>> yes, and basically clone the account so he gets notified and blind copy and she'd never know it. >> out to lee in virginia. hi, lee. >> caller: hi. thank you for taking my call. longtime fan. >> thank you for calling in, dear. >> caller: i am calling in because i'm curious. i know this is a reality-type show, but do the children fall under the jackie coogan law to protect their assets from their parents? >> excellent question. what do we know about that, raymond giudice? how can they be protected financially in court? >> nancy, earlier it was talked about a guardian ad litem and i threw out the idea of trust accounts for these children. the difference in the jackie coogan case is when he was a child actor his contracts paid him and the parents wasted and squandered the money. i don't know if the children under the contracts are direct recipients of any money. >> what about it, herman? >> ray is right on, nancy. right on the point, right there. >> you're supposed to be a defense attorney. what do you have to say in defense of jon and kate? >> what i'm saying is aren't your hard-working fans nauseated how much money these people make? it's unbelievable.

>> if you listen to your heart and do what's right. she needs to break away from tlc, be her own person, speak from her heart, be the kind person that i know she can be, and let's work this thing out.

the boy's grandmother says the child's mother, 17-year-old victoria nelson, may be in danger and may have been forced to abandon her son. the grandmother says she hasn't seen her daughter, victoria, in over a week. >> a 3-year-old baby boy left at a bus stop.

mommy gets on the bus, takes off and literally never comes back. to misty reed, anchor reporter, what happened? >> i'll give you a time line of what exactly transpired that we know of based on reports. victoria nelson is 17 years old. on, i believe it was the 5th, she actually told her mother, identified as angela thomas, that at noon, she was going to take xavier, 3 years old, to the mall. angela thomas, victoria's mother, never heard or saw from them again. she reported them missing the next day, the 6th. well, the boy turns up at that bus stop in south l.a., just after midnight friday morning. a citizen, what we're told, is a transient actually tried to tell victoria she was forgetting her child as she got onto a bus. but she waved him off. so he sat with the sleeping xavier for about an hour before he finally called police.

>> so a transient, homeless person basically tried to tell the mother, hey, hey, you're leaving the kid, you're leaving your baby. and she shooed him away and got on the bus and took off and left? >> that's what the police said, that the witness told police she said. he stayed there for about an hour before he finally turned him over, which is really lucky for that little boy that man was nice and kind to do that. that could have been anybody. >> that could have been anybody. a child sex predator, a parolee. it could have been anyone. a dope dealer, a drug addict. god was with xavier that day. to stacey newman, our producer on the story, what can you tell me about her myspace? >> well, her myspace basically, just a typical teenager type myspace page. one interesting quote she had on there said, i'm so damn young, but i do it like a pro. very grown for a 17-year-old girl.

>> what else can you tell me about the little boy? who's got the little boy now? is he back with the grandmother? >> he is not back with the grandmother tonight. he's actually with cps tonight. grandmother, i believe, is probably trying to work out some custody to get this child. >> but didn't the mother and the little boy live with the grandmother already? if there was not something wrong in that home, don't you think, stacey newman, the child would be back in the home? >> i do. and actually, i think police are trying to just sort out what is going on in that home. because also we've learned this is not the first time that victoria has taken off with her child. >> let's unleash the lawyers, susan moss, ray giudice, richard herman. susan moss, anybody could have picked that child up and here she is on her myspace whining that she's so young to have a child. it's too late for the whining. >> absolutely. this child learned the hard way that the wheels on the bus go round and round. but he's not alone because there's a sibling, there's a

little baby, 11-month-old child. and that child also will be t e taken away from her custody. maybe family reunification will work and maybe the grandmother will get custody. but only after we check and make sure that these people aren't a danger to both these kids. >> i just don't understand, dr. del tito, how you can leave your child sitting there and just looking back at it, just get on the bus and leave. >> there's some people who lack empathy, lack sympathy. and remember, we don't really know what happened. maybe she was in trouble. maybe someone was after her. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. put del tito up. no one says forced the woman on the bus. >> i'm just saying we should keep an open mind. chances are this is not a caring mother who is worried about the kid. but it could have been at the moment someone was after both of them. she thought the kid was safer just not with her by her side. there's just too much --

>> judge, wait a minute. wait a minute. >> yes? >> she had the grandmother at home where the child lived, where the other child was. so you are actually telling me with a straight face that she could have thought it was better to leave the child with a homeless man at a public bus station in south l.a. than at home with the grandmother? >> i leave open the 1% possibility that maybe she saw someone in the bus station, someone was following her, she thought she was -- >> please put del tito up. >> they may hurt the child. i'm not saying i believe that's the most likely scenario, but there may be a scenario like that boiling around here. in all likelihood, she was someone who abandoned her child, plain and simple because of her own, who knows, hedonistic interests. but we don't know. i think we should keep an open mind. >> i know what the witnesses said. and the witnesses said, ray giudice, richard herman, susan moss, that she sat undisturbed

at a bus stop with the child who finally fell asleep. a bus came up, she got on, they tried to show her, you're leaving your child, she shooed them away and left the boy and never came back. a 3-year-old child. what's she looking at, herman? >> we don't know this was the mother, nancy. we don't know who this woman was that got on that bus. we don't know if victoria nelson is alive as we do the show right now. let's let the investigation take part. >> would you like to try to take a stab at the actual question, ray? >> nancy, every greyhound bus station, trailways, has videotape. there will be videotape showing how long she was there, who, if anyone, she talked to, her demeanor. coupled with that facebook quote, i see casey anthony syndrome here. thank goodness the child is healthy and well taken care of. >> to misty reed, with kern am 1180, they are saying bus station.

i thought it was a bus stop? >> yeah, it's a bus stop. it was on the corner of florence avenue and broadway specifically in south l.a. >> and that is right on the street. that child could have stepped right out into the street. >> that's correct. but as the report says, he was asleep on the bench when she did leave him. >> to maria in new mexico. hi, maria. >> hi, nancy. wow, i can't believe i'm talking to you. i want to say i greatly appreciate everything that you do for the kids. i appreciate it so much. i really do. >> i can't take any credit. i really can't. you know i'm a crime victim. >> you tell people like it is. you give them the truth, even though it hurts. and i think that's great. my question is, who actually found the baby?

did someone get the baby -- did the police see the baby from the bus stop? >> tell us again how the baby was save? >> by a homeless man sitting at the bus stop. he watched as the mom took off. she looked him in the eye, waved. he waited there for a full hour hoping she would come back. when she didn't, he took the little boy to lapd.