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tv   Q A  CSPAN  October 18, 2009 8:00pm-9:00pm EDT

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breaking news tonight. satsuma, florida. a 5-year-old little girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she's gone, vanished. the back door propped wide open. daddy comes home from the nightshift to find not a trace of little haleigh. the last person to see the 5-year-old alive that night, the stepmother, misty croslin. just hours after croslin handcuffed by cops on alleged road rage, she flies to new york, taking to the air to declare she's innocent. but even in one brief interview she can't keep her stories straight. first, claiming she knows
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nothing about haleigh's whereabouts, then blurting out the other side of the family took haleigh. then, a 180 on the failed lie detector, claiming she passed. then admitting she failed. after her brother tells cops he was at the home that night, no sign of croslin, completely debunking her story. her own mother, says croslin's not coming clean. croslin's tv response, they betrayed me. they're the bad guys. look at them, not me. minutes after croslin's debacle on national tv, her lawyer dumps her. bombshell tonight, we know when the investigation heats up, croslin goes awol. but tonight, it's revealed her wingman, the woman who took her to orlando and new york, was working undercover to befriend croslin and get the truth. did it work? this while haleigh's dad
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publicly stands by his new bride, sources reveal in a fit of depression over haleigh, cummings threatens to shoot croslin dead if she's responsible. in the last hour, cummings and croslin file divorce papers in a florida court. what does it mean to the investigation? croslin claims the holes in her story have nothing to do with the split. but have cummings' worst fears been confirmed? that his new wife, misty croslin, implicated in the disappearance of his own 5-year-old girl? >> i don't want a divorce, but that's what he wants. so whatever. >> breaking news. the divorce papers between ronald cummings and the last person to see haleigh alive, misty croslin, have been filed. >> she looked the papers over, she took them to a notary,
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brought them back signed. >> the two of us have agreed to go separate ways and just with the family problems and everything else, it's just -- it's too much on the relationship. >> does ron still believe misty? reports emerge that ronald cummings investigated. what happened? >> why does ron continue to his lawyers to say that he's supporting misty and he's not concerned about the inconsistencies in her story when we thought he was divorcing her. he's probably his own worst enemy at this point. >> possible haleigh sightings caught on tape as misty croslin's mom transferred out of a tennessee jail. will she be questioned by police? >> i knew all along she had something to do with it. and this kind of proves it. she was the last one to see our daughter and her stories don't
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add up. >> if this girl keeps doing what she's doing, it's only a question of time before she's charged with something having to do with this kid's disapeernlgs. she just repeatedly contradicts herself. tonight, live to pennsylvania, two mentally handy capped teens with the mind of third and sixth grader, vanish. tonight, the search for two helpless handicapped teens. where are charles and donna? pennsylvania police are searching for two mentally disabled teens who vanished in the poconos friday night. 18-year-old charles and 19-year-old donna left around 6:30 p.m. headed for a walk and haven't been seen since. a massive search was launched over weekend, with firefighters,
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residents and search dogs all out scouring the area for clues. the teens both have a sixth grade mental capacity and they are desperate to find them. police say they continue looking until the pair are found. good evening, i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. did a female friend go undercover to get the truth about the disappearance of 5-year-old haleigh? >> everybody knows that i love haleigh and ronald and junior. they're my family. >> the last person to see haleigh alive is also the last person to finally sign divorce papers. >> i think we both agreed on it. >> who brought it up first? >> i did. >> the divorce between ronald cummings and misty croslin now filed. will this boost the investigation into what happened to 5-year-old haleigh? >> i feel like it's on the other side of the family. that has her. that's just how i feel.
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>> do you feel that police have looked at everyone they need to look at. >> i don't think they looked at everyone as close as they have me. >> now that misty's mom has been transferred out of a tennessee jail, will she be questioned by police? >> if this family is willing to betray each other over a get out of jail free card, what does that say about her and who she is willing to betray? is she betraying ron, haleigh? >> as over 4,000 tips continue to pour in, including possible haleigh sightings caught on video. >> i believe that she is alive. i have faith in god to take care of my baby girl and find her. >> straight out to art harris at artharris.com. i understand this is your story that you broke, that the wingman, the so-called friend that went to orlando and flew to new york with misty croslin was actually undercover.
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explain. >> that's right. donna brock, according to tim miller, was working all the time to get close to misty to possibly glean information about what misty may know happened to haleigh. this was not known to police per se. but she was working for texas equusearch in an attempt to find out what she could learn by getting close to misty. >> art, where all did donna brock go with misty croslin, where did they travel? >> she picked her up in satsuma, they went to orlando, they wound up at universal, they were on the road when everyone thought misty was on the run. but tim miller was wiring money to take misty to get her hair done, to try to get close to her and misty was warming up closely to donna. this was something that was working until the road rage
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incident outed them both. >> wait a minute. are you telling me that the so-called undercover friend was the friend in the road rage incident that was driving? >> that's correct, nancy. they were off driving down the highway, interstate 4, when according to tim miller, someone tried to run them off the road, donna brock fulls alongside the car and gave this driver the finger. then misty gives them the finger and that is -- >> i heard the whole thing and i interviewed the woman who called the cops. now art, you're trying to tell me they were the victims? how come it was the other lady, the pharmaceutical sales rep that called police, to rat herself out? that doesn't make sense. >> it depends how threatened did donna brock, the driver feel. she didn't feel threatened enough to call the police. but according to her, it was the other driver that forced her off the road. >> before we go off on the road rage incident, i want to get back to this. to melinda schiavo.
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did it work, did donna brock get anything out of croslin? >> unfortunately, it didn't work at all. all that happened at this point was that she got to travel around with misty and get to know her a little better and all she could gather was that misty has a temper that no one has seen. but other than that, there's been no new information that came from this new friendship. >> what do you mean by temper? >> apparently, she had witnessed a couple of conversations that misty had while they were on the road with ronald, and apparently she got really, really hostile with ronald at times and witnessed her not being very even tempered. >> take a listen to what one alleged victim of misty croslin's had to say.
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>> to top it all off, while ronald cummings has publicly stood beside his new bride, misty croslin, now we learn of threats? art harris, what can you tell us?
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>> that's right, nancy. tim miller went back to the house where ron was living with misty and tells me that ronald took an assault rifle from his closet, had two clips, 32 bullets in each and he threatened to blow misty's teeth to the back of her head and then kill himself and take others out with him if, in fact, he learned she had anything to do with haleigh. that's when he became afraid if anything happened to misty, the case would go down the tubes and they would never find out what happened to haleigh since police believe she's holding a lot more information than she's revealing. that's when he came up with this undercover mama idea to let donna brock go on the road with misty to see what he could get from her. >> your client is certainly up in the investigation, hiring someone and paying a woman to go undercover to get the truth out
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of misty croslin. when he says he observed ronald cummings with a weapon, i thought the cops took all of the weapons out of the home the night haleigh went missing. >> i think if tim had an opportunity to do a doover, he would have. he did tell the police about this, but at the time the focus was on her poly graph, her hypnosis, all of which she failed. so a month or so later, they said whoa, there's a rifle in that closet and there's another child in the house. but at the time the focus was really on what is misty holding back and what is she not telling everybody? >> why won't she come down and sit with police and talk with them? >> i can't answer for you. i'm sure her attorney can answer for you. we have talked to her about talking to the police. >> what did she say? >> she said she talked to them.
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i got up because i had to use the bathroom but i didn't make it to the bathroom. i seen the kitchen light on. i walked in the kitchen and the back door was wide open. >> she told me when she woke up she always keeps the lights out. she noticed the kitchen light was on. she said she made it around the corner -- you had to, like, go around the corner, she noticed the back door was open. that's when she ran back to the bedroom and haleigh wasn't in there. >> i didn't notice about haleigh then until i seen the back door open and i go in the room and she's gone. and that's all i know. >> she went to haleigh's room. she wasn't in there. that's when she started calling.
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>> ronald, has the theory misty left the house sometime during the night been disproved? >> i'm not sure i believe that it has, nancy. i'm almost 100% sure but i wouldn't tell you that and lie to you. >> there's no way she could have wandered off? >> no, she is scared of the dark. she would no go anywhere by herself. >> but i know the little girl, she would not just get up and walk out that door in the middle of night by herself. >> do you believe she left the home and left the children alone, ronald? >> absolutely not. >> we are taking your calls live. out to ellen in california. hi, ellen. >> caller: i love your show, nancy. thank you for taking my call. >> thank you. yes, ma'am, thank you for calling in. >> caller: the twins are beautiful. >> thank you. they're going to be 2 in just a few weeks. >> caller: lucy looks just like you. >> well, that's a compliment to me and i want to thank you for that. it's a dream come true.
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>> caller: lucky lucy. >> thank you. what's your question, dear? >> caller: i think misty's stories don't jive because i think she's learning disabled. >> why do you say that? >> caller: remember the 911 call when they asked for her address? >> yes. >> caller: she gave the street. the 911 operator asked for the numerical and she said, what's that? >> okay. to ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story from the very beginning. is there any sign she is disabled? if she is disabled she's somehow managed to throw off the cops now for about nine months. >> no reports like that, nancy. however, we do know misty croslin, although she's only 17 years old, has dropped out of school, has not gone to school for some time. some reports suggesting she
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dropped out as early as after the sixth grade. >> what about it, art harris? is that true? >> i've spoken to her grandmother in nashville, tennessee, who raised her during the crucial years of grammar school, sixth grade. she said she had a hard time with her homework. she had to sit down with misty. misty begged her to help her. the grandmother had a hard time, too. she says she does have learning disabilities and her parents did not make her go to school. this is a young woman, young girl who has not had the best education, nancy. >> out to peggy, washington state, hi, peggy. >> caller: hi, nancy. i just want to say i love your show the best because there's never any of this political stuff on it. it's just interesting things. >> peggy, thank you very much. i absolutely do not like politics. i don't believe either side. the republican, the democrats, i think they're all lying. >> caller: me, too. >> there you have it. what's your question, love? >> caller: i was wanting to ask you, back when haleigh was first
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discovered missing and it was, like, close to a week, i think, that two cadaver dogs hit on the dumpster that was, like -- >> right. >> caller: okay. what i want to -- i've never heard, when did the dumpster get emptied? i mean -- >> right, right. >> caller: usually are -- >> i remember that. what about it, ellie? >> well, nancy, we did hear reports the dumpster, there was a hit by the cadaver dogs on the dumpster. they apparently thoroughly checked out the dumpster. they weren't able to find anything there. any signs of dna, blood, anything like that. i believe they also went and checked the dump where that dumpster would be emptied and didn't find anything there either. >> i believe the dumpster had been emptied two days before? >> right. that sounds right. >> to mike brooks, mike, what do you make of the divorce and in your experience handling so many cases like that, how, if at all, will it effect the investigation? >> if at all, nancy, i think it could help the investigation
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because, you know, ronald, the whole relationship right from the very beginning has been tumultuous from the time the police report was taken. maybe now that, you know, ronald's not there to protect her, if you will, maybe she'll open up. instead of going up to the morning show and cbs and should have been with putnam county sheriffs talking to them about where haleigh is, period. >> they've been on me for six months. they haven't left me alone for six months. i've been the one. the main focus.
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what time was haleigh last seen by anybody other than cummings and croslin? >> the last time i seen her was -- >> i didn't ask when you saw her. certainly you as the biological mother know the facts of this case, so when was she last seen by someone other than the father and the stepmother? >> that i don't know. >> have you asked her what
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happened? what does he tell you? >> i ask her, but that -- i don't get any answers from her about, you know -- i don't see -- what she's telling me is not inconsistent. >> bottom line, you don't know where haleigh is? >> bottom line. >> she pretty much tells me the same thing each time i ask her about it. >> she was the last one to see our daughter, and her stories just don't add up. >> i would have woke up if i heard any noise. i mean, i didn't hear anything at all. >> you've been in the trailer just like we have been and somebody pounding on the front door as close as her bed was to the front door, you would hear it. it's ten feet away. >> well, i think the children would have been more likely to hear it. >> i want to get to the bottom of what happened. one way or another i want my daughter to come home.
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>> joining me right now, president and founder of klaaskids foundation, marc klaas is with us. marc, you went through much the same thing when your daughter, polly, went missing many years ago. how do you compare all of these peoples' behavior to what you think should be the gold standard? >> well, first of all, i didn't have somebody like tim miller come in and play dangerously with the lives of my family, insert his amateurs in and betray us on a variety of levels time after time. these are very vulnerable people that we're dealing with right here. there's a little girl that's missing. he's supposed to be running a search operation. i run a search operation, but
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you know what? he's putting us in jeopardy. he's putting me, he's putting every other organization that runs a legitimate search operation in jeopardy because we require the trust and cooperation of law enforcement and the family whenever we get called into one of these cases and he's just breaking that down. if i were the putnam county sheriff, i would consider arresting tim miller for interfering in an investigation. i'm absolutely outraged by the things that i've heard tonight. now, before anybody gets too far off on misty here, and i, quite frankly, don't totally believe her story either. let's remember, my daughter polly was kidnapped in her bedroom while her mother slept soundly only ten feet away. exactly the same thing happened to elizabeth smart and to daniel van dam. entire families slept through these kidnappings. as preposterous as her story may be, it's not utterly impossible. >> what about it, mark nejame?
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the attorney for tim miller of texas equisearch. how did he come up with the concept, mark nejame, in response to marc klaas' questioning, to plant someone undercover against misty croslin? >> what's outrageous is mr. klaas' statements. tim miller is here to help find missing people. >> if you can just focus on the question. >> and he's found his 102nd person today. you think outside the box. law enforcement was at a dead end. every effort being made to find this child who was either dead or missing was utilized, and to find a child, you use any legal means necessary. there's not a rule book that says you can only do it one way. he should be applaud for doing whatever it took to help find a missing or dead child. to be criticized for that is wrong and outrageous. >> i want to go to our producer on the story. ellie, i want to go back also to what ronald cummings allegedly
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said. publicly he stands beside his new bride, misty croslin. privately, according to sources, that would be miller, he threatened to blow her head off if she was involved? that doesn't sound like he believes her story. >> right. right. he did say that. he said, according to tim miller, he would blow misty croslin's teeth out through the back of her head if he found out she did it. ron cummings' lawyer said ron does not remember making the statement. if he did it was an emotional statement he said when he was upset, similar to on the 911 call where he said, if i find whoever did this, i am going to kill them. i don't care if i go to prison. >> what about it, karen stark? psychologist from new york. weigh in, karen. >> i tell you, nancy, somebody may be very emotionally upset but don't necessarily start telling people they're going to kill them ar blow their teeth in or any of that stuff is going to happen. i really think this is such a
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travesty and such a circus that i'm waiting for the acrobats to come in. it's one ridiculous story on top of another. it's all very ludicrous. what about haleigh? isn't she supposed to be the focus? not the fact that misty is covering up and not telling anybody anything. someone should be really, really paying attention to what happened to her, what can we do to find out about her, and forget about all of who's killing whom and everybody blaming everybody else. >> to art harris at www.artharris.com. he's been there in satsuma for weeks on end investigating this story. what, if any, difference will the divorce make? in the last hours they have filed for divorce in a florida courthouse. >> nancy, it is keeping misty on edge, and that is hopefully what police are counting on to, perhaps, get, you know, some cooperation in the future. i can tell you she has met with police, with this undercover
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friend, and i'm told they told her, warned her that she could get life in prison if they're able to make a case against her. >> to dr. jennifer shu, pediatrician and author of "baby and child help." what would be haleigh's needs? let's assume the child is still alive. >> so haleigh had a condition called turner syndrome which gives you small stature and it also -- ovaries that don't function. what can also happen is heart problem, thyroid disorder and diabetes. those types of things could be life threatening to the point where if she wasn't getting the regular medical care she needed she could get very sick and die in a short period of time. >> out to the lines. lina in arkansas, hi. >> caller: hello. >> hi, dear, what's your question? >> caller: i was wondering when misty's brother went there that night, he said he knocked on one door and couldn't get a
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response, did he not go to the other door? wouldn't people naturally check the other door? >> good question. marlaina schiavo? >> he did not go to the second door, nancy. he only knocked on the front door, according to him. >> to sheryl in michigan. hi, sheryl. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> hi, dear, what's your question? >> caller: first off, i love your show. i have a question. if they suspect that misty told her mother and brother anything and they have them in custody, how come they haven't charged them with anything after the fact? >> hold on. repeat the question, sheryl? if the mother and brother know something, why haven't they charged them? >> caller: or threatened to charge them after the fact? >> charge them with what? >> caller: knowing any information. after the fact. >> to renee rockwell and doug burns. in our jurisprudence and our legal system, renee, nobody is under a duty to be a good samaritan and come forward. if you're under oath on the stand and lie, that's perjury. if you're under oath on the
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stand and refuse to answer, that's contempt. but other than that, what else can they do? >> nancy, i think it's interesting the dynamic you have now. you have mom that's in jail and she's got $100,000 bond. she's about to be brought down to florida. i clearly think that they will approach her and say, okay, do you want to get out of jail? you need to tell us something. look at it. her husband's gone. her friend's a plant from tim miller equisearch. her mother's in jail and her brother flipped on her. i think it's getting close to her cracking. >> doug burns, is there any way these people, if they know something, can be charged with not giving it up? >> the distinction is that as you said it perfectly, you're not required as a good samaritan to come forward. if you conceal information, then it becomes what -- a felony. the police asks, did you speak to mr. a, b, c -- no i didn't and it turns out you
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did, then you're concealing. >> what if you don't say anything at all? >> if you don't say anything at all you're absolutely right. everyone, quick break. we're taking your calls live. to tonight's safety tips. over 1 million people are victims of stalking every year. nearly always by somebody they know. if someone repeatedly calls you, follows you, sends you unwanted e-mails, letters, threatens you, randomly shows up where you are, leaves unwanted gifts, you're being stalked. if you are in immediate danger, of course, call 911. otherwise, please document all of these incidents. save the voicemails, letters and any correspondents like e-mails and file police reports. tell everyone you know so the stalker cannot get access to personal info like your location, your plans. stalkers are unpredictable. if someone follows you, don't go home. go to a busy area and get help. for information go to safehorizon.org.
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straight out to bob matthews, director of news talk 840 a.m. bob, what happened? >> nancy, basically these two youngsters were getting together on friday night, going over to visit the young man's grand mother. the family was gathered outside the grandmother's house and charles lockard's sister went inside. when they came back outside, both were missing and they didn't know where they got to. they thought, maybe they took a walk or wandered into the woods. the family started to look for them around the property then started to panic when they couldn't find them. then lockard's father was running into the woods and said
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he heard his son screaming out, screaming out and all the sudden the screams stopped and he started to panic. however, they didn't call police or fire officials until the next day as they continued to look around the property to try to locate the two youngsters. >> bob matthews, joining us from wpvo from strasbourg, pennsylvania. what did the father claim to have heard the son calling out? any words? >> he said he heard him calling daddy, daddy, daddy, and then all of the sudden he said he heard it again and then the third time he said he heard daddy, dad -- and it stops abruptly. that's when his father became worried and started searching frantically. >> to matt zarrell, producer on the story. what can you tell me about their mental disabilities? >> the boy, charles, he's got the mental capacity of a third grader and donna has the mental capacity of a sixth grader, nancy. >> back to bob matthews. bob, what more can you tell me? what is the type of area? where are they missing?
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number two, why did they wait until the next day to call police? >> let's talk about the area where they went missing. it's a rural development and there are, you know, woods and swamps and bushes and cliffs out when you get into the deeper terrain. other than that there are houses mixed in amongst the trees. it wasn't like they were out in the middle of the forest. basically what happened, i guess from what i heard, there are conflicting stories back and forth as to why they didn't go to the police right away. some said they were nervous. some said they, you know, thought they would find them on their own. and they didn't want to alert and alarm authorities. when the youngsters didn't come home and they couldn't find them, that's when they panicked and said we better call somebody and called state police and the penn township volunteer fire company. >> bob, that doesn't make sense. what would they be nervous about? >> some people involved in the case, and, again, this is just hearsay. i got th information from a third party.
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said that they had had some activity in the past with law enforcement, but they didn't really go into specifics or details. some people speculate they may have been afraid to go to authorities because they may have thought they were going to get into some kind of trouble. >> to mike brooks, former fed with the fbi. what do you make of it? i mean, these are two teens with the minds of a sixth and a third grader. they are helpless. >> absolutely. d.c., if we were looking for them, even if they thought they might have run away, nancy, or whatever the circumstances could be, it would be classified as a critical missing person because of their mental capacity. you know, this whole delay in calling 911, it just doesn't add up to me. doesn't make sense. you know, it could cost these children their lives for not calling the police when they should have called. >> to marc klaas, founder of klaaskids foundation. your expertise is looking for lost children. what should be done?
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and what has gone wrong? >> mike hit the nail on the head when he said the delay in contacting law enforcement may have been a critical mistake. one of the things they can do right now is ask all property managers, all real estate agents, farmers, ranchers, anybody that has access to unoccupied properties or outbuildings to please go and check those properties to see if the kids might be there. although they do not have -- although their mental capacity is challenged, they certainly understand the need to get shelter i'm sure. i think that would be one place to start and that might end up solving the case. >> back to bob matthews, wpvo. bob, i had heard a report, but i want to confirm this with you, there are a lot of vacation homes in that area. there's about 3,000 homes is my understanding. is it true one of the homes appears to have been used by the two teens? they've been in there? >> yeah, nancy. the latest information we have from state police, there are a
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lot of homes in that area that unfortunately had been foreclosed upon. there are vacant homes in the indian mt. lakes development. police say based on eyewitness accounts and people who saw these two youngsters that they had stayed in one of the homes saturday. when they went to investigate the youngsters were already gone. the teens had left the home. police are saying right now they think they are still somewhere within the development, but that's why, you know, with a program like yours and others, are still trying to get the word out in case, you know, they manage to slip their way out of indian mt. lakes and are out and about somewhere. as you mentioned a short time ago, the elements up there, the temps are supposed to drop into the low -- down around freezing. maybe even into the low 30s, upper 20s by the weekend. it's imperative they find the youngsters quickly. if they're in a home, these homes probably don't have the heat turned on and the
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electricity turned on. so that could pose a further danger. >> everyone, we are talking about two teens with the mental capacity of a third grader and a sixth grader. if they don't find shelter, they are in the elements. they are completely helpless an. they are completely helpless and missing now for several days. tipline, 5706462271. karen stark, how do people like this make their way in society? there's a third grade mentality and a sixth grade mentality. >> what happens they get a lot of support, nancy. they need people around them all the time who are helping them. and a nice thing is they found each other so they can support each other. what concerns me is the fact that they were yelling out the -- >> if they had fallen prey to a predator, their moral support to each other is not going to account to very much. can the family be held responsible for not reporting them missing for so long.
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>> i would think so. this would be tantamount to not reporting a third grader and a sixth grader missing. >> we're going to break and take your calls. happy birthday to texas friend, sue. she never misses a show. sue, happy birthday.
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>> pennsylvania police were searching for two mentally disabled teens who vanish in the poconos friday night. 18-year-old charles lockard and donna kiernan left out for a walk and haven't been seen since. a massive search over the weekend with emergency management worker, firefighters, residents, and search dogs all out scouring for the clues. they both have a sixth grade mental capacity and they're
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desperate to find them. they continue looking until the pair are found. >> charlie lockard and donna kiernan 18 and 19 respectively are mentally challenged and comprehend at the sixth grade level. they went for a walk at the indian lakes development friday afternoon and didn't return. >> i just want them to come home. that's all i want. at least call me, please let me know she's okay. that's all. i'll come and get her. i want her home so i can hold her. she's my daughter. she's my baby. please come home. please. >> these two children need your help so desperately. they look like teenagers. but they are mentally handicapped. they have the mind of a third grader and a sixth grader. if they can't find shelter or if they have fallen prey to a predator, god only knows what has happened to them.
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the tipline -- 570-646-2271. to elaine in texas. hi, elaine. >> hi, nancy. it's so good to be on your show. i love your show. i watch it every day. >> thank you. >> and the twins are so beautiful. >> thank you. >> caller: i want to know why did it take the parents so long to report them missing? and also, would they know their phone number or their address or know a way to get home? >> two bob matthews, would they know? do they know enough to know their address if they're asked. >> everybody keeps talking about the mental capacity, third and the sixth graders. they are very sharp. they are functional. and from what i'm told, donna marie kiernan loves school, pays attention. she's a sharp girl. hopefully, i don't know for sure, hopefully they know some people in the area. >> to dr. shoout, pediatrician. weigh in. >> a 4 or 5-year-old knows their
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phone number and address. i would expect they would know if. whether they have access to a phone, i'm worried about. you can go two days without water and get dehydrated. i worry about hypothermia and maybe getting themselves injure in the woods. it's important to find them quickly. >> let's stop and remember marine lance corporal derek gardner, 20, kill in iraq. from a long line of vets that served in both world wars, korea, vietnam, loved fishing with his dad, nottsberry farm, pro baseball, the dodgers. she leaves behind a fiancee april and jack russell terrier sparky. derek gardner, american hero. thanks for being with us. our thoughts and prayers tonight with legal analyst and veteran lawyer, bill schaffer. spinal surgery today.
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bill, stay strong. we are praying for you. everyone i'll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern. until then, good night, friend.
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