you probably know my next guest as detective munch, the longest running character on primetime. but you may not know that the actor, richard belzer, is also a comic and author. his new book is called "i am not a psychic" and he joins me now. hi, richard. >> hi, darling. i hope people nye was a comic. >> they kind of knew it. >> maybe not an author. >> as time marches on. >> i'm 73 now. >> you know, let's talk about those days. do you miss them? >> you know what? i remember when i first started out, catch a rising star and the clubs on the improv. not having any money, sleeping on my brother's couch, taking

the subway, eating colombo yogurt because it was 50 cents. and even when i was doing it, although i knew that this is the only thing that i could be doing at that point, and i kind of looked at the romantic show bis, i'm in showbiz and even though i was cynical and bitter and all that, i still had that sense of magic and row mantism about it. >> about comedy? >> about the -- you asked me about the early days which were hard but i'm glad. >> being a stand-up you had like a fantasy about how great it would be or -- >> just being in a nightclub and it's filling up and the band is playing and there's smoke in the air. that's what i wanted to be -- i wanted to be in that world. >> i've had a few comedians on the show already, and, i don't know, some of us have had difficult child hoods. mine was pretty good. >> right. >> larry david said that childhood was fine. it was the adulthood that was difficult. did you have a hard time as a kid? is that what prompted you to be funy? >> that's an old cliche saying comics have suffered.

you're a good example. you weren't abused as a kid. >> you were adored. that was my issue. >> you're incredibly funny and you're able to do that. whether i was abused or not a i was whacked around as a kid, it was always there, you don't become brilliantly funny because somebody abused you. it has to be indigenous to your being. >> it's a defense in a way. >> if i wasn't funny i may have found another way to defend myself. >> there's a new study that came out a couple weeks ago that says kids who are spanked have a lower iq. >> many other things, too, about spanking. >> yeah. >> along those lines, i -- i saw this book years ago. i wish i could remember the name of it. someone went around to visit people who hid jews during the war. >> yeah. >> and in different countries. people who hid jews, they went and they interviewed them and they found out that two or three similarities between them.

the first one was none of them thought of themselves as heroes. >> right. >> and, you know, it's another person, and some of them really imperiled their lives and their families and hid jews, and the other thing was virtually every single person who hid jews was not hit as a child? they whether were not hit. >> which means they were not afraid. >> that's interesting. >> isn't that fascinateing? >> yeah, wow. >> because if you're hit as a kid, it's wired into your head, your brain, even as an adult that you're going to get hit. i've had problem for years sleeping at night, you know, i'm 105 years ole, but up until i don't want so to say how recently i had trouble sleeping because on some level i thought, well, she's going to come at any minute and beat the [ bleep ] out of me. >> really. >> it wasn't logical what she did. >> your mother. the mother hit you, not the father. >> my father begrudgingly hit me, you know. charlie, go kick his ass. >> and your brother, too? >> yeah. we were both whacked around a bit. >> by i mean the comedy in your

case might have been a way of survival, you know. >> absolutely. >> when you're having a tough time as a kid, you know, even in school i used to be funny in class because the teachers would scare me. >> because were you bored. >> and i also was bored and i would start trouble and talk to people and start conversations and they pay me now to do that, the same it thing i was doing then. >> now i get paid for what i got thrown out of school for. >> you're a big conspiracy theory person, yes? >> yes. >> hillary clinton brought up the vast right wing conspiracy in '98. >> yeah. >> she said it is this vast right wing conspiracy that has been conspireing against my husband since the day had was announced for president, but this last september bill clinton said it's still alive. >> yeah. >> okay. he said it's not as strong as it was because america's changed demographically but it's as virulent as it was. what do you think about all that? is there really a right wing conspiracy in this country? >> i think it's an open

conspiracy. it's common knowledge that think tanks and publishers on the right will buy ann coulter's book to get it on the best-seller list and fund films that say bill and hillary killed vincent foster and get in bed so to speak with the religious right and demonize the left. from day one they hated clinton and tried everything they could do to destroy him. if it's a conspiracy it's an open conspiracy. >> so do you think there's a conspiracy against obama now? >> well, it's not a conspiracy. it's on television every day. this is semantics. there's -- they have -- the right wing has a common interest which is to destroy obama and put their party before their country. that's what they have chosen to do, and i think the cat south of the bag now. we see, you know, cheering when we don't get the olympics and demeaning the nobel prize. >> right, which is so un-american. >> and questioning where he was born. >> yeah. >> and if all -- if every single republican in the senate does not vote for health care reform,

then, you know, it's like they shouldn't exist as a political party. it's the most callous, heartless, mean political expediency playing on the worst fears of the elderly and the poor, they are the most despicable pieces of humans ever. >> do you think that the american electorate is catching on to that or not? >> no. the american people are always -- have been and always will be a moderate to left, not moderate to right as people like to believe. every survey i've seen since the '60s, would you pay a little bit more for clean air, a little bit more for health care. >> yeah. >> what are you going to do give the fireman a bill, is that socialism? you're not going to go to parks or public hospitals, highways? this whole thing of using the word socialism, which by the way was a good thing, that's why hitler named his party socialism because the connotation was that everybody shares in the success. >> not everybody. >> success of the nation. >> not the jews, not in his case. >> he used socialism.

>> yes, i know. >> double speak. >> not the way he used it, the way it was known before he used it was an all inclusive thing and in france they have what they call social democracy. you have free enterprise. you have capitalism but you also take care of the disenfranchised. it's not a mystery. >> yeah. >> it's this -- this rabid right thing -- >> what about the racism. >> but i have no opinion on this. >> what about the racism question on obserama? you said i'm concerned there are still serious issues of race relations as exemplified in the sotomayor confirmation hearings and the arrest of professor gates that we need to be better investigate and people like to skirt the issues. they would like to think it's not a racist country but in a way it is. >> in a big way it is. they are still red lining in banks and you still see health problems among the blacks and hispanics and poor people that people of means don't have the same health problems. we put pollution next to poor

neighborhoods. i mean, there's so much discrimination that's just built into the fabric of america, but also 70 million people that we know of, maybe more, voted for obama. >> yes. >> and this is a triumph for this country which is steeped in this -- >> but will it hold, do you think? that's what i worry about, because his approval rating went down and it's steady now. >> that's because he's president. not because he's black though some people are trying to tie the two together. no, i think the fact that he became president will, first of all, i think every black kid in america is one inch taller now there's a black president so the self-esteem for that alone is a great thing. i think his presidency symbolically is just as important as it is politically, what he represents. >> right, and, you know, they are always saying he's not doing anything but bush did so many wrong things that it's nice to take a break from too much negative action. >> i disagree in that roosevelt was fighting a war and, you know, rebuilding the country and doing 50 things at once.

he can either do health care or the economy. the health care is the economy. >> well, he is -- i have hope that he'll get -- speed this up a little. >> he's like lincoln, has a team of rivals that argue with him which is great. >> i love that. i have to go. >> the book is called "i'm not a psychic" and it's in stores now. up next, the beautiful and talented valerie bertinelli stops by. stay right there.

earlier this week the beautiful and talented valerie bert nilly stopped by to discuss

her new book called "finding it" so, of course, my first question was what did you find? >> i'm still finding it. >> what is is it? >> exactly. the whole weird thing about maintenance and finding what caused me to put the weight on, what's going to -- what i'm going to find to help me keep it off, just finding it in my weird bizarre life which isn't probably so weird because a lot of people have the same stories going on in their life. >> it's highly relatable, are you kidding me. >> yes, yes. >> you also talk about your marriage to eddie van halen, a great rock star and cute guy. how long was that marriage? >> i think we with a married for 20 years. >> but we were separated for some of it. i've known him for almost 30 years. >> i can't believe it's that long. i was just looking at you. >> august of 1980 we met, so 29. >> so fast. just yesterday monica lewinsky was just a little girl under the desk. >> i just want to know why she didn't clean the frickin' dress.

are you disgusting or what? clean the dress, golly. i mean, i send my clothes in to be cleaned if they get dirty. >> because she's loony tunes, disgusting. >> a little bit of a discussion about extra marital affairs in this book which is usually the reason people break up. that's it. this other baloney -- >> by the time -- >> i need my space, that's a bunch of baloney. somebody is waiting in the wings. >> right. >> so what happened there? >> i think by the time you start having affairs something is obviously quite broken in the marriage, so obviously something was quite broken in our marriage early on but we kept up the good fight and we didn't quite make it. >> but who was cheating on who? >> you know, do you have to know who, when, where? we have a little thing going. ed things i did first and i'm thinking he did first but we don't know all about the timing. >> but i'm interested in that. it's almost like the same conversation about why we eat. people stray. >> yes. >> in a relationship for an emotional reason usually. >> because you're not being emotionally fulfilled in

whatever relationship that you're in. >> either that or you're just a horny dog. >> that too and when you're in your 20s. >> i'll refer you to governor spitzer, for example, and some of the other dogs we keep reading about. >> edwards. >> they are out there hounding it up, but with women there -- >> we know how to hound it up once in a while, too, unfortunately. >> but we have usually a reason. it's not just -- >> so we're given a get out of free card. >> no, no, no, no, no. >> you think that women cheat in the same way? >> cheating is cheating and it's wrong and you shouldn't do it. i can speak from experience having been cheated on and having cheated. i think there's a feeling -- it feels worse for me to have cheated on because that feeling, the pain that i inflicted on somebody, i don't ever want to do again. the good thing is that now i'm in a relationship that i know i don't want to hurt that man ever like that. >> so you've learned. >> i've learned my lesson. monogomy is in my life and if i think i can't be monogamous with this man which i seriously doubt

because -- okay, not going to go there. he's really good in bed. >> is he really? better than van halen was? you don't have to answer that. >> what time is this show on? >> oh, my god, my parents are watching this. i'm sorry, pop. i love you. hi, mom. >> you should hear -- >> i'm still a virgin, right? >> well, you're like a virgin, let's put it that way. >> right. >> and have had a child, 18 years ago. >> what was i saying? >> extra marital -- >> let's go get a drink. >> the thing about monogomy when you're younger when you're under 40 is monogomy is monotonous. >> it's depends on who you're with. >> it's difficult to stay monogamous when you're young. >> you're still finding it. >> whatever that it may be. >> right. >> so that's the real reason. >> that's why i think getting married at 20 was really stupid and you don't suggest anybody do that. >> no. >> i think more mature love that i'm going through right now,

i -- i'm like i'm with my buddy. i really enjoy his company. he's my best friend. >> yeah. >> i -- i don't want to hurt him. >> first of all, you named your son wolfgang. >> william van halen. >> you left out the bertinelli fortunately for him. >> yes. >> this could take a year to say his name. >> poor guy. >> but you really named him after mozart, didn't you? >> yeah. >> were you lying in bed post-orgasmic and listening to mozart and said, wolfgang, that's the name for this kid? >> no, i loved the movie "am dues" and i love the way elizabeth barrett says wolfie and trying to come up with a name that goes with van halen. his father's name was jan and i didn't want wolfie if he's a boy could be called jan because i didn't think that would cut it in america. >> what about robert van halen, tom? >> no. >> frank. >> salvatore.

>> nazarino van halen. >> i think wolfgang really determines that the kid had to be in the business with your husband though, and he is? >> he's got his dad's gift. got his dad's gift and not mine. >> you have a gift? >> what, vomit mouth. >> what instrument does he play? >> he started on the drums when he was 9 and then he picked up the guitar when he was 12 or 11 and then he -- his dad asked him to start playing the bass so he started to play the pass. >> so he's talented and has a beautiful singing voice and he plays -- there's my boy. >> which one is that? >> that one. >> cute from the side. >> he's a big boy and he is now teaching himself the piano. >> he's teaching himself the piano. >> and kicks ass in rock band. >> does he sing, too? >> he does, yeah. >> and what was that whole thing today about him being a virgin? you think he's a virgin? >> seriously, we got to talk about that. >> i got a text from my son. we're watching "the view" now and i said are you still speaking to me? >> well you were teasing about that. >> i was.

>> he's 18 years old. >> he's 18 years old so he's a virgin. >> whatever. he might be, might not be. >> that's none of your business now. >> none of my business. >> let go. >> as long -- don't want to talk about it. >> never mind. >> this happened today also you didn't want to talk about it but is it in here in the book? >> i talk about the sex talk and the sex talk that ed had with wolfie. >> you were listening to. >> because it was on the road and we were listening in the dressing room and i could hear ed talking and if you've ever met my husband -- ex-husband he has this graveling voice, like wolfie, and i'm like, like all of a sudden he's in the mafia. has a gravelly voice and be careful with what you do with your heart and protect it and when you fall in love don't protect it so much that you don't let anybody in and protect her heart and treat her with kindness. that's all the stuff that i would say. >> that's beautiful. >> and be careful of the skanks and whores and pitches that wants to date you because you're in a rock band. i wouldn't have put it that way

but that's good information for him to have because i've run into skanks and whores in my lifetime. >> i bet you have. >> yeah. >> you're happy with the way he spoke to your son. >> i am. i may joke around but he's a really good dad. >> are you friends with eddie now? >> we're friendly. i don't know if i would call him my friend or buddy. but i like him again. i fell out of like with him for a long time. i like his new wife. >> he got married again too? >> yes. i was at the wedding. >> that's so nice. >> so was tom. tom was with me. >> when you have a child, you over never separated 100% from your husband. >> no. so you must treat each other with kindness and love your children more than you hate your ex. >> more with valley when we return. $$$$$$$$$$$$$

breaking news tonight. satsuma, florida. a 5-year-old little girl tucked into bed, five hours later, she's gone, vanished. the back door propped wide open. daddy comes home from the nightshift to find not a trace of little haleigh. the last person to see the 5-year-old alive that night, the new stepmother, misty croslin. just hours after croslin handcuffed by cops on alleged road rage, she flies to new york, taking to the air to declare she's innocent. but even in one brief interview she can't keep her stories straight. first, claiming she knows

nothing about haleigh's whereabouts, then blurting out the other side of the family took haleigh. then a 180 on the failed lie detector, claiming she passed. then admitting she failed. after her brother tells cops he was at the home that night, no sign of croslin, completely debunking her story. her mother says croslin's not coming clean. croslin's tv response? they betrayed me. they're the bad guys. look at them, don't look at me. minutes after croslin's debacle on national tv, her lawyer dumps her. bombshell tonight -- we know whenever the investigation heats up, croslin goes a-wol. but tonight, it's revealed her wingman, the woman who took her to orlando and new york, was working undercover to befriend croslin and get the truth. did it work?

this while haleigh's dad publicly stands by his new bride, sources reveal in a fit of depression over haleigh, cummings threatens to shoot croslin dead if she's responsible. in the last hours, croslin and cummings file divorce papers in a florida court. what does it mean to the investigation? croslin claims the holes in her story have nothing to do with the split. but have cummings' worst fears been confirmed? that his new wife, misty croslin, implicated in the disappearance of his own 5-year-old girl? >> it's just divorce, i mean, i don't want a divorce, but it's what he wants so it's whatever. >> breaking news. the divorce papers between ronald cummings and the last person to see haleigh alive, misty croslin, have been filed. >> we gave her the papers. she's no longer represented by anybody. she looked them over. she took them to a notary,

brought them back signed. >> the two of us have agreed to go separate ways and just with the family problems and everything else, it's just -- it's too much on the relationship. >> does ron still believe misty? reports emerge that ronald cummings investigated. a gun threat. allegations his attorney denies. what happened? >> why does ron continue through his lawyers to say that he's supporting misty and he's not concerned about the inconsistencies in her story when we thought he was divorcing her. he's still providing cover. he's probably his own worst enemy at this point. >> tips flooding in from across the nation. possible haleigh sightings caught on tape as misty croslin's mom transferred out of a tennessee jail. will she be questioned by police? >> i knew all along she had something to do with it. and this kind of proves it. she was the last one to see our daughter and her stories don't add up.

>> if this girl keeps doing what she's doing, it's only a question of time before she's charged with something having to do with this kid's disappearance. she just repeatedly, repeatedly contradicts herself. tonight, live to pennsylvania, two mentally handicapped teens with the minds of a third and sixth grader, vanish. tonight, the search for two helpless handicapped teens. where are charles and donna? >> pennsylvania police are searching for two mentally disabled teens who vanished in the poconos friday night. 18-year-old charles lockard and 19-year-old donna kiernan left around 6:30 p.m. headed out for a walk and haven't been seen since. a massive search was launched over weekend, with firefighters, residents and search dogs all

out scouring the area for clues. authorities say the teens both have a sixth grade mental capacity and they are desperate to find them. state police say they plan to continue looking until the pair are found. good evening, i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. did a female friend go undercover to get the truth about the disappearance of 5-year-old haleigh? >> everybody knows that i love haleigh and ronald and junior. they're my family. >> the last person to see haleigh alive is also the last perp to finally sign divorce papers. >> i think we both agreed on it. >> who brought it up first? >> i did. >> the divorce between ronald cummings and misty croslin now filed. will this boost the investigation into what happened to 5-year-old haleigh? >> i feel like it's on the other side of the family. that has her. that's just how i feel.

>> do you feel that police have looked at everyone they need to look at? >> i don't think they looked at everyone as close as they have me. >> now that misty croslin's mom has been transferred out of a tennessee jail, will she be questioned by florida police? what does she know? >> if this family is willing to betray each other over a get out of jail free card, what does that say about her and who she is willing to betray? is she betraying ron, is she betraying haleigh? >> as over 4,000 tips continue to pour in, including possible haleigh sightings caught on video. >> i believe haleigh is alive. i have faith in god to take care of my baby girl and find her. >> straight out to art harris at artharris.com. i understand this is your story that you break that the wingman, the so-called friend that went to orlando and flew to new york with misty croslin was actually undercover? explain. >> that's right, nancy.

donna brock, volunteer for texas equusearch, according to tim miller was working all the time to get close to misty so she could possibly glean information about what misty may know happened to haleigh. this was not known to police per se. she was not a, quote, agent of police, but she was working for texas equusearch in an attempt to find out what she could learn by getting close to misty. >> art, where all did donna brock go with misty croslin, where did they travel? >> she picked her up in satsuma, they went to orlando, they wound up at universal, coca beach. they were on the road when everyone thought misty was on the run. but tim miller was wiring money to take misty to get her hair done, her nails done to try to get close to her and misty was really warming up very closely to donna, so this was something that was working until the road rage incident outed them both.

>> wait a minute. wait a minute. are you telling me that the so-called undercover friend was the friend in the road rage incident that was driving? >> that's correct, nancy. they were off driving down the highway -- interstate 4, when according to tim miller someone tried to run them off the road, donna brock pulls alongside the car and gave this driver the finger then misty gives them the finger and that is when -- >> i heard the whole thing and i interviewed the woman who called the cops. now, art, put him up again, art, you're trying to tell me they were the victims? how come it was the other lady, the pharmaceutical sales rep that called police, to rat herself out? that doesn't make sense. >> it depends how threatened did donna brock, the driver, feel? she didn't feel threatened enough to call the police. but according to her, it was the other driver that forced her off the road. >> before we go off on the road rage incident, i want to get back to this. to marlaina schiavo, our producer on the story, did it work?

did donna brock get anything out of croslin? >> unfortunately, nancy, it didn't work at all. all that happened at this point was that she got to travel around with misty and get to know her a little better and all she could gather was that misty has a temper that no one has seen. but other than that, there's been no new information that came from this new friendship. >> what do you mean by temper? >> apparently, she had witnessed a couple of conversations that misty had while they were on the road with ronald, and apparently she got really, really hostile with ronald at times and she witnessed her just not being very even tempered. >> take a listen to what one alleged victim of misty croslin's had to say.

>> to top it all off, while ronald cummings has publicly stood beside his new bride, misty croslin, now we learn of threats? art harris, what can you tell

us? >> that's right, nancy. tim miller went back to the house where ron was living with misty and tells me that ronald took an assault rifle from his closet, had 32 -- it had 2 clips, 32 bullets in each and he threatened to blow misty's teeth to the back of her head and then kill himself and take others out with him, if, in fact, he learned she had anything to do with haleigh. that's when he became afraid if anything happened to misty, the case would go down the tubes and they would never find out what happened to haleigh since police believe she's holding a lot more information than she's revealing. that's when he came up with this undercover mama idea to let donna brock go on the road with misty to see what she could get from her and get her away from ronald comings. >> to mark nejame, attorney for tim miller of texas equusearch, your client is certainly up in the investigation. hiring someone and paying a

woman to go undercover to get the truth out of misty croslin. when he says he observed ronald cummings with a weapon, i thought the cops took all of the weapons out of the home the night haleigh went missing. >> i think if tim had an opportunity to do a do-over on this he would have. he did tell the police about this, but at the time the focus was on her polygraph, her voice stress analysis, the hypnosis, all of which failed. so he let them know, but a month or so later everybody said, whoa, there's a rifle in that closet and there's another child in the house. but at the time the focus was really on, you know, what is misty holding back and what is she not telling everybody? >> why won't she come and sit down with police and talk with them? >> i can't answer for you. i'm sure her attorney can answer it for you. we have talked to her about talking to the police. >> what did she say? >> she said she talked to them.

i got up because i had to use the bathroom but i didn't make it to the bathroom. i seen the kitchen light on. i walked in the kitchen and the back door was wide open. >> she told me when she woke up she always keeps the lights out. she says she woke up and noticed -- to go to the bathroom, but she noticed the kitchen light was on. she said she made it around the corner -- you had to, like, go around the corner, she noticed the back door was open. that's when she ran back to the bedroom and haleigh wasn't in there. >> i didn't notice about haleigh then until i seen the back door open and i go in the room and she's gone. and that's all i know. >> she went to haleigh's room. she wasn't in there. that's when she started calling.

>> ronald, has the theory misty left the home sometime during the night been disproved? >> i'm not sure i believe that it has, nancy. i'm almost 100% sure but i wouldn't tell you that and lie to you. >> there's no way she could have wandered off? >> no, she is scared of the dark. she would not go anywhere by herself. >> but i know the little girl, she would not just get up and walk out that door in the middle of night by herself. >> do you believe she left the home and left the children alone, ronald? >> absolutely not. >> we are taking your calls live. out to ellen in california. hi, ellen. >> caller: i love your show, nancy. thank you for taking my call. >> thank you. yes, ma'am, thank you for calling in. >> caller: the twins are beautiful. >> oh, thank you. they're going to be 2 in just a few weeks. >> caller: lucy looks just like you. >> well, that's a compliment to me and i want to thank you for that.

it's a dream come true. >> caller: lucky lucy. >> thank you. what's your question, dear? >> caller: i think misty's stories don't jive because i think she's learning disabled. >> why do you say that? >> caller: remember the 911 call when they asked for her address? >> yes. >> caller: she gave the street. the 911 operator asked for the numerical and she said, what's that? >> okay. to ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer who's been on the story from the very beginning. is there any sign that she is disabled? if she is disabled she's somehow managed to throw off the cops now for about nine months. >> yeah, well no reports like that, nancy. however, we do know misty croslin, although she's only 17 years old, has dropped out of school, has not gone to school for some time. some reports suggesting she dropped out as early as after

the sixth grade. >> what about it, art harris? is that true? >> nancy, i've spoken to her grandmother in nashville, tennessee, who raised her during the crucial years of grammar school, sixth grade. she said she had a hard time with her homework. she had to sit down with misty. misty begged her to help her. only the grandmother had had a hard time, too. it had been a long time since she was in school. she says she does have learning disabilities and her parents did not make her go to school. this is a young woman, young girl who has not had the best education, nancy. >> out to peggy, washington state. hi, peggy. >> caller: hi, nancy. i just want to say i love your show the best because there's never any of this political stuff on it. it's just interesting things. >> peggy, thank you very much. i absolutely do not like politics. i don't believe either side. the republicans, the democrats, i think they're all lying. >> caller: me, too. >> okay. there you have it. what's your question, love? >> caller: i was wanting to ask

you, back when haleigh was first discovered missing and it was, like, close to a week, i think, that two cadaver dogs hit on the dumpster that was, like -- >> right. >> caller: okay. what i want to -- thought at the time and i've never heard, when did the dumpster get emptied? i mean -- >> right, right. >> caller: usually are -- >> i remember that. what about it, ellie? >> well, nancy, we did hear reports the dumpster -- there was a hit by the cadaver dogs on the dumpster. they apparently thoroughly checked out the dumpster. they weren't able to find anything there. any signs of dna, blood, anything like that. i believe they also went and checked the dump where that dumpster would be emptied and didn't find anything there either. >> i believe the dumpster had been emptied, like, two days before? >> right, that sounds right. >> to mike brooks, mike, what do you make of the divorce and in your experience handling so many cases like that, how, if at all, will it effect the investigation? >> you know, if at all, nancy, i

think it could help the investigation because, you know, ronald, the whole relationship right from the very beginning has been tumultuous from the time that he was -- the police report was taken. maybe now that, you know, ronald's not there to protect her, if you will, maybe she'll open up. instead of going up to the morning show at cbs she should have been with putnam county sheriffs talking to them about where haleigh is, period. >> they've been on me for six months. they haven't left me alone for six months. i've been the one. the main focus.

go separate ways and just -- with the family problems and everything else, it's just too much on the relationship. >> does ron still believe misty? reports emerge that ronald cummings investigated. over alleged gun threat. allegations his attorney denies. what happened? >> why does ron continue through his lawyers to say that he's supporting misty and he's not concerned about the inconsistencies in her story when we thought he was divorcing her? he's still providing cover. he's probably his own worst enemy at this point. >> tips flooding in from across the nation. possible haleigh sightings caught on tape. >> do not lie to me, you've never lied to me before to my knowledge.

don't tell me that you didn't know police want to talk to her again. we all know it. we talked about it on this show, on national tv. now, i'm telling you, police want to talk to her. now, why is she back in orlando and not speaking to police? >> that i'm not sure, ms. nancy. i already told you, same as what terry said, it's probably due to her attorney, his advice. >> let's unleash the lawyers. joining us tonight, renee rockwell, veteran defense attorney out of the atlanta jurisdiction. doug burns, defense attorney in the new york jurisdiction. renee, let's talk about statements that misty croslin probably, most likely made to the new friend who was paid by a private citizen to go under cover to get the truth about haleigh cummings. she's not a cop. she's not an undercover law enforcement. so anything she says to this

woman, donna brock, can come in at trial. >> nancy, i agree with that. and i also think even if it was a police plant, that those statements would come in also. there's no rules against somebody trying to set up somebody or trying to trick them into telling them the truth. >> you're right. >> since when is that off base? >> and doug burns, you have to be in custody and you have to be a target before your miranda rights kick in. >> i agree with everything said, except if she's represented by a lawyer, law enforcement may not be able to put somebody in to get statements out of her. >> that's irrelevant because this wasn't law enforcement. >> i know. i know. i'm saying -- but renee was saying you can do it willy-nilly. i'm not so sure i agree. >> is there any possibility that she left the home that evening and hasn't told you? >> if there is a possibility of it, i don't know anything about it.

what time was haleigh last seen by anybody other than cummings and croslin? >> the last time i seen her was -- >> i didn't ask when you saw her. certainly you, as the biological mother, know the facts of this case. so when was she last seen by someone other than the father and the stepmother? >> that i don't know. >> have you asked her what happened? what does she tell you? >> i ask her, but that -- i

don't get any answers from her about, you know -- i don't see -- what she's telling me is not inconsistent. >> bottom line, you don't know where haleigh is? >> bottom line. >> she pretty much tells me the same thing each time i ask her about it. >> she was the last one to see our daughter, and her stories just don't add up. >> i would have woke up if i heard any noise. i mean, i didn't hear anything at all. >> you've been in the trailer just like we have been and somebody pounding on the front door as close as her bed was to the front door, you would hear it. it's ten feet away. >> well, i think the children would have been more likely to hear it. >> i want to get to the bottom of what happened. one way or another i want my daughter to come home.

>> joining me right now, president and founder of klaaskids foundation, marc klaas is with us. marc, you went through much the same thing when your daughter, polly, went missing many years ago. how do you compare all of these peoples' behavior to what you think should be the gold standard? >> well, first of all, i didn't have somebody like tim miller come in and play dangerously with the lives of my family, insert his amateurs in and betray us on a variety of levels time after time. these are very vulnerable people that we're dealing with right here. there's a little girl that's missing. he's supposed to be running a search operation. i run a search operation, but you know what? he's putting us in jeopardy.

he's putting me, he's putting every other organization that runs a legitimate search operation in jeopardy because we require the trust and cooperation of law enforcement and the family whenever we get called into one of these cases and he's just breaking that down. if i were the putnam county sheriff, i would consider arresting tim miller for interfering in an investigation. i'm absolutely outraged by the things that i've heard tonight. now, before anybody gets too far off on misty here, and i, quite frankly, don't totally believe her story either. let's remember, my daughter, polly, was kidnapped in her bedroom while her mother slept soundly only ten feet away. exactly the same thing happened to elizabeth smart and to daniel van dam. entire families slept through these kidnappings. as preposterous as her story may be, it's not utterly impossible. >> what about it, mark nejame? you're the attorney for tim miller of texas equusearch. how did he come up with the

concept, mark nejame, in response to marc klaas' questioning, to plant someone undercover against misty croslin? >> what's outrageous is mr. klaas' statements. tim miller is here to help find missing people. today he found his 102nd person. >> if you can just focus on the question. >> and he's found his 102nd person today. you think outside the box. law enforcement was at a dead end. every effort being made to find this child who was either dead or missing was utilized, and to find a child, you use any legal means necessary. there's not a rule book that says you can only do it one way. he should be applauded for doing whatever it took to help find a missing or dead child. to be criticized for that is wrong and outrageous. >> i want to go to ellie jostad, our producer on the story. ellie, i want to go back also to what ronald cummings allegedly said. publicly he stands beside his new bride, misty croslin. privately, according to sources,

that would be miller, he threatened to blow her head off if she was involved? that doesn't sound like he believes her story. >> right. right. he did say that. he said, according to tim miller, tim miller says that ronald cummings said he would blow misty croslin's teeth out through the back of her head if he found out she did it. ron cummings' lawyer said ron does not remember making the statements but if he did it was similar to the 911 call, an emotional statement he said when he was very upset, similar to on the 911 call where he said, if i find whoever did this i'm going to kill them. i don't care if i go to prison. >> what about it caryn stark? psychologist from new york. weigh in, karen. >> i tell you, nancy, somebody may be very emotionally upset but don't necessarily start telling people they're going to kill them or blow their teeth in or any of that stuff is going to happen. i really think this is such a travesty and such a circus that i'm waiting for the acrobats to

come in. it's one ridiculous story on top of another. it's all very ludicrous. what about haleigh? isn't she supposed to be the focus? not the fact that misty is covering up and not telling anybody anything. someone should be really, really paying attention to what happened to her, what can we do to find out about her, and forget about all of who's killing whom and everybody blaming everybody else. >> to art harris at www.artharris.com. he's been there in satsuma for weeks on end investigating this story. what, if any, difference will the divorce make? in the last hours they have filed for divorce in a florida courthouse. >> nancy, it is keeping misty on edge, and that is hopefully what police are counting on to, perhaps, get, you know, some cooperation in the future. i can tell you she has met with police, with this undercover friend, and i'm told they told her, warned her that she could get life in prison if they're

able to make a case against her. >> to dr. jennifer shu, pediatrician and author of "baby and child help." what would be haleigh's needs? let's assume the child is still alive. >> so haleigh had a condition called turner syndrome which gives you small stature and it also -- ovaries that don't function. what can also happen is heart problem, thyroid disorder and diabetes. those types of things could be life threatening to the point where if she wasn't getting the regular medical care she needed she could get very sick and die in a short period of time. >> out to the lines. lina in arkansas. hi, lina. >> caller: hello. >> hi, dear, what's your question? >> caller: i was wondering when misty's brother went there that night -- he said he knocked on one door and couldn't get a response, did he not go to the other door? wouldn't people naturally check the other door? >> good question. marlaina schiavo? >> he did not go to the second door, nancy. he only knocked on the front

door, according to him. >> to sheryl in michigan. hi, sheryl. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> hi, dear, what's your question? >> caller: first off, i love your show. i have a question. if they know -- if they suspect that misty told her mother and brother anything and they have them in custody, why haven't they charged them with anything after the fact? >> okay. hold on. repeat the question, sheryl? if the mother and brother know something, why haven't they charged them? >> caller: or threatened to charge them after the fact? >> charge them with what? >> caller: knowing any information. after the fact. >> to renee rockwell and doug burns. in our jurisprudence and our legal system, renee, nobody is under a duty to be a good samaritan and come forward. if you're under oath on the stand and lie, that's perjury. if you're under oath on the stand and refuse to answer, that's contempt. but other than that, what else can they do? >> nancy, i think it's

interesting the dynamic you have now. you have mom that's in jail and she's got $100,000 bond. she's about to be brought down to florida. i clearly think that they will approach her and say, okay, do you want to get out of jail? you need to tell us something. look at it. her husband's gone. her friend's a plant from tim miller equusearch. her mama's in jail and her brother's already flipped on her. i think it's getting close to her cracking. >> doug burns, my question was, is there any way these people, if they know something, can be charged with not giving it up? >> the distinction is that as you said it perfectly, you're not required as a good samaritan to come forward. if you conceal information, then it becomes what -- a felony. the police asks, did you speak to mr. a, b, c -- no i didn't and it turns out you did, then you're concealing. >> what if you don't say anything at all? >> if you don't say anything at all you're absolutely right. everyone, quick break. we're taking your calls live. to tonight's safety tips.

over 1 million people are victims of stalking every year. nearly always by somebody they know. if someone repeatedly calls you, follows you, sends you unwanted e-mails, letters, threatens you, randomly shows up where you are, even leaves unwanted gifts, you're being stalked. if you are in immediate danger, of course, call 911. otherwise, please document all of these incidents. save the voicemails, letters and any correspondence like e-mails and file police reports. tell everyone you know so the stalker cannot get access to personal info like your location, your plans. stalkers are unpredictable. if someone follows you, don't go home. go to a busy area and get help. for information go to safehorizon.org.

straight out to bob matthews, wvpo news talk 840 960 a.m. bob, what happened? >> nancy, basically these two youngsters were getting together on friday night, going over to visit the young man's grandmother the family was gathered outside the grandmother's house and charles lockard's sister went er. inside for a couple minutes. when they came back outside, both were missing and they didn't know where they got to. they thought, maybe they took a walk or wandered into the woods. then, of course, the family started to look for them around the property and started to panic when they couldn't find them. then lockard's father was running into the woods and said he heard his son screaming out, screaming out and all of a sudden the screams stopped and he started to panic.

however, they didn't call police or fire officials until the next day as they continued to look around the property to try to locate the two youngsters. >> bob matthews, joining us from wpvo from strasbourg, pennsylvania. what did the father claim to have heard the son calling out? any words? >> he said he heard him calling "daddy, daddy, daddy." all of a sudden he said he heard it again and the third time he said he heard "daddy, da --" and it stopped abruptly. that's when his father became worried and started searching frantically. >> to matt zarrell, producer on the story. what can you tell me about their mental disabilities? >> the boy, charles, he's got the mental capacity of a third grader and donna has the mental capacity of a sixth grader, nancy. >> back to bob matthews. bob, what more can you tell me? what is the type of area? where are they missing? number two, why did they wait until the next day to call police?

>> let's talk about the area where they went missing. it's a rural development and there are, you know, woods and swamps and bushes and cliffs out when you get into the deeper terrain, but other than that there are houses there mixed in amongst the trees. it wasn't like they were out in the middle of the forest. basically what happened, i guess from what i heard, there are conflicting stories back and forth as to why they didn't go to the police right away. some said they were nervous. some said they, you know, thought they could find them on their own and didn't really want to alert and alarm authorities. when the youngsters didn't come home and they couldn't find them, that's when they panicked and said we better call somebody and called state police and the penn township volunteer fire company. >> bob, that doesn't make sense. what would they be nervous about? >> some people involved in the case, and, again, this is just hearsay. i got this information from a third party. said that they had had some activity in the past with law enforcement, but they didn't

really go into specifics or details. some people speculate they may have been afraid to go to authorities because they may have thought they were going to get into some kind of trouble. >> to mike brooks, former fed with the fbi. what do you make of it? i mean, these are two teens with the minds of a sixth and a third grader. they are helpless. >> absolutely. d.c., if we were looking for them, even if they thought they might have run away, nancy, or whatever the circumstances could be, it would be classified as a critical missing person because of their mental capacity. you know, this whole delay in calling 911, it just doesn't add up to me. doesn't make sense. you know, it could cost these children their lives for not calling the police when they should have called. >> to marc klaas, founder of klaaskids foundation. your expertise is looking for lost children. what should be done? and what has gone wrong? >> mike hit the nail on the head when he said the delay in contacting law enforcement may

have been a critical mistake. one of the things they can do right now is ask all property managers, all real estate agents, farmers, ranchers, anybody that has access to unoccupied properties or outbuildings to please go and check those properties to see if the kids might be there. although they do not have -- although their mental capacity is challenged, they certainly understand the need to get shelter i'm sure. so i think that would be one place to start and that might end up solving the case. >> back to bob matthews, wpvo. bob, i had heard a report, but i want to confirm this with you, there are a lot of vacation homes in that area. there's about 3,000 homes is my understanding. is it true one of the homes appears to have been used by the two teens? they've been in there? >> yeah, nancy. the latest information we have from state police, there are a lot of homes in that area that unfortunately had been foreclosed upon. there are vacant homes in the development, the indian mt.

lakes development. police say based on eyewitness accounts and people who saw these two youngsters that they had stayed in one of the homes saturday. when they went to investigate the youngsters were already gone. the teens had left the home. police are saying right now they think they are still somewhere within the development, but that's why, you know, with a program like yours and others, are still trying to get the word out in case, you know, they manage to slip their way out of indian mt. lakes and are out and about somewhere. as you mentioned a short time ago, the elements up there, the temps are supposed to drop into the low -- down around freezing. maybe even into the low 30s, upper 20s by the weekend. it's imperative they find the youngsters quickly. if they're in a home, these homes probably don't have the heat turned on and the electricity turned on. so that could pose a further danger. >> everyone, we are talking about two teens with the mental capacity of a third grader and a sixth grader. if they don't find shelter, they

are in the elements. they are completely helpless and missing now for several days. tip line, 570-646-2271. caryn stark, how do people like this make their way in society? there's third grade and sixth grade mentality. >> well, what happens is they get a lot of support, nancy, and they need to have people around them all the time who are helping them. the nice thing is they found each other so they could support each other. what concerns me is the fact that -- >> if they have fallen prey to a predator, their moral support to each other is not going to account for very much. to renee rockwell can. the family be held responsible for not reporting them missing for so long? >> i would think so. >> everybody we are taking your

calls. i want to wish a happy birthday to texas friend, sue. sue, happy birthday.