welcome back to prime news on hln. we're hearing another account of what happened in the sweat lodge led by self-herself guru james arthur ray, contributed to the book "the secret." this was a spiritual retreat. it has turned deadly. we want to know what happened. we're trying to find out. we have ted schmidt, lawyer of sidney spencer. she was inside that sweat lodge, getting his account. we have a doctor with us telling us what happens to the body when things get hot. and with us eric chase, criminal defense attorney. thanks for being patient. we hear this account.

most people hear all this and say, come on, james arthur ray set the table for this tragedy. how are you going to defend him? >> first, we have to separate it into two parts, the criminal part and the civil part. in terms of the criminal part and what happened in the sweat lodge, i don't think there is going to be any criminal liability. >> you don't think? >> i don't think. to charge for any type of criminal charge, you at least have to proceed in the face of a known risk of possible death. i think he was just stupid, and stupid does not translate into being criminally responsible. look, these people all had an option. they were all acting voluntarily. they could have left if they wanted to. they were just as stupid about what could happen in this horrible environment as he was. so in terms of criminal responsibility, which is different than if you sued for money. but for criminal responsibility, i just don't think there's going to be any. >> but civil, there's going to be some good cases. is that what you're saying? >> absolutely. they put their trust in him. they had a contract with him. in terms of civil liability, i would be very concerned for him and his estate. >> ted schmidt, can you comment

on that on a criminal level? i mean, because they're being -- these deaths are being looked at as homicides, plural. do you see criminal charges coming? >> i'm not an expert in criminal law. i am a civil lawyer. i will tell you, based on what we just heard, i understand the sheriff is attempting to develop the fact that he had had sweat lodge experience in the past where people had passed out. he had some -- actually did have some knowledge that there was a danger. whether they're able to prove that he had knowledge this is life-threatening, i'm not sure. >> let's go back to eric. on that front, we have all these people, and from all the experts we've talked to on these sweat lodges, way too many people, 55 to 65, and only one nurse on hand, is that something where you could build a case of negligence against james arthur ray? >> certainly it was an awful situation. i'll tell you where there may be

a place of criminal responsibility. that's what happened after people left the sweat lodge. from what i read, there were people that could have been helped by other participants and what he calls his dream team, the assistants. they wouldn't allow the assistance to be given. it looked like they were protecting their own pocketbooks, their own program, and not interested in protecting the people at risk. that could give rise to criminal responsibility. >> we heard that account from beverly bun yesterday. she works in the dental field, so she is trained medically. she wanted to help. but as you used the term, a part of his dream team would not let her. you make a good point there. ted, before we let you go, does your client, sidney, have any account of what happened outside? as we know now, people were dying around her outside of that sweat lodge? >> she didn't regain consciousness until she was in the hospital, but she has spoken to the woman that drug her out of there, and that woman said that she was foaming at the mouth, con vulsing, and her eyes were rolled back in her head. >> before we go, doctor, how quick does this get

dangerous/deadly when it gets that hot in there and there's no circulation of air? >> sure. well, it's a difficult question. i guess the people by the window did better. once your body temperature gets above 103, 104, you are at risk for seizures. which is what she sounds like experiencing when they found her in the hospital. >> we'll leave it there. we'll continue to follow the story. coming up, another disturbing story. football star jasper howard murdered. uconn students -- he was murdered outside of a dance. 300 students went to this dance. somebody saw something. potential witnesses are being bullied online, threatened about snitching. are they not telling what could bring this young man justice? we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back. football star at the university of connecticut murdered in a crowd of 300 people. now there are violent threats popping up online to stop witnesses from going to the cops. here's just one of the threats here. stop snitching. for the love of god, make the cops do their jobs. jazz didn't deserve to die, and the person who killed him didn't intend to kill him. anyone who snitched should face the social consequences. and some of those consequences spelled out, stabbed, mugged, beaten for talking to the cops. it's unbelievable. someone even posted a threat on

the victims's memorial web page, a place to remember and honor jasper howard and pay tribute. his mom and dad want justice. you're going to go to a website and threaten those who might help bring justice on a facebook page. it's unbelievable. joining us to talk about, we welcome back hln law enforcement analyst mike brooks and also with us kate monahan, reporter for uconn's newspaper, "the daily campus." kate, let's be clear here. 300 people were at the dance. we're not sure how many people saw. you figure somebody saw something. are authorities at this point frustrated because no one's coming forward? >> well, i think, from what i've gathered talking to them, that it's been a little frustrating because, as we've learned, the police have said there's evidence out there, videographic and photographic evidence, that they know exists that hasn't been brought to them yet. i think, because they've been reaching out and saying, we know there's evidence out there and we just don't have it yet, i'm sure they must be getting

frustrated they're not getting all the information from that night to maybe clear this up. >> where are these threats coming from -- where are they popping up? facebook? where else, kate? >> there have just been a few. one of the threats taken down was on the r.i.p. jasper howard facebook group. another one was on a uconn student's football blog. just a wordpress blog. it was a comment on a video he had done of student reactions to the tragedy. and both of those were pretty strongly wordeded threats. threatening violence. it seemed like the people were outsiders. we do know the people involved in this could be non-uconn students. the police believe it's non-uconn students and uconn students involved with a fight. >> you mentioned face there is book. just a disturbing post on facebook. this is posted on a page

honoring jasper howard. it's rough. we had to do a lot of editing here. you get the gist of it. it's basically "blank the snitches. i know you, jasper howard, would not be down with that. this needs to be a lesson for all of uconn. you will be stabbed, shot, mugged or beaten for blanking around." kate, have you talked to anybody, a potential witness, who is intimidated by this and is keeping quiet at this point? >> i haven't found anyone to point to these as the cause for not coming forward. but i have reached out to people, shooting them an e-mail or a facebook message or something like that to try to get a hold of them if it seemed they were a witness. some people specifically said, no, i haven't talked to police, and they wouldn't say why. i guess i'm going on limited information on what people's motives are or maybe they think i didn't see that much or something like that. i think we need to see this as a

possibility for maybe why people aren't coming forward. >> kate, let me ask you this, and i'll get mike in on the conversation. have you been threatened? do you feel threatened by bringing this piece of the story to light? >> i haven't personally, but i feel like it is the kind of thing where, you know, it is a little intimidating because, if there are these people out there that feel this vehemently about the situation, obviously, i do worry a little bit about my safety or other people's safety. but i'm happy the police have come out to say, if you have fears about coming forward, you know, you can relay that to them, and they can help protect you in any way possible, and that includes being anonymous. and when you call in for tips. >> kate, we applaud your brav y bravery, by the way, to bring this forward. let's bring in mike brooks, hln law enforcement analyst. mike, how much of a problem is this? eyewitnesses going silent because of this garbage, these threats online? >> you know, mike, it's a

problem. it's a problem in the public on homicides around cities. i used to do canvasses all the time with people, no, i don't want to say anything because they were afraid. they were intimidated because people come up and say, you didn't see anything, did you? no, i didn't see anything. these people saying don't snitch, they're the cowards, mike. they're the ones who are really the cowards. you know what, please, keep sending them to facebook, keep sending them to different blogs because law enforcement can find you. you can run, but you can't hide. >> can they be traced? >> absolutely, mike. i'm not going to say how, but they can be. could these be possible charges if these people did say something and are intimidated? absolutely. tampering with a witness, obstruction of justice, threats across the internet. when the internet started becoming more popular and just as big as it is now, it used to be threats across the phone. same kinds of things, mike. use of interstate commerce. and if it gets bad enough and the fbi gets involved, because

they'll find a way to get involved in it goes from state to state, they could also face federal charges if possible. >> kathy is with us in massachusetts. kathy, go ahead. >> caller: hey, mike. these low life cowards making those threats to the people, they really ought to be shot. i'm sorry. but their only power is by threatening people. and when people talk to the police -- and they can do it anonymously -- they should help the police because the police deserve the public's help to close cases such as this to get justice for the family. >> exactly. i mean, this is -- you look at jasper howard, described as a great young man, father to be, a team captain. he just received the game ball after a big win over louisville. mike, talk about that. i mean, police can protect people who feel that they might be a little threatened. they can bring their anonymous information forward, right? >> absolutely. sometimes they set up different programs where you just call in and you're a number, a

crimestoppers program. you don't have to give a name. they just assign you a number, and they contact you that way. no, you don't have to give your name. and there are, you know, tips you can call into the tip number we're showing right now, and you don't have to give your name. but that's the problem. i mean, it's really an epidemic out there that people don't want to get involved. this poor guy, he left miami to escape the violence, and what happens to him in connecticut? >> yeah. kate, are police continually on a daily basis reaching out to the students to please tell us something? >> pretty regularly, uconn students get e-mail updates from the police on how the investigation is going, or i guess what steps they're taking. i don't think in the last day or so we've received too much more. i don't know how things are progressing. i haven't heard too many new developments. >> kate monahan, thank you. thank you for your bravery. coming up, remember shaft?

richard roundtree, his biggest movie role in the '70s. this guy, he was the man back then. now he's facing breast cancer. it's coming up in "what matters."

>> i don't say i'm saving lives, i say i'm giving life with a whole different life of music.

everybody knows shaft. richard roundtree made the character famous. 1976, slick, gun toting, swauf detective. now he's a breast cancer survivor. richelle carey had a chance to suite down and talk with him. >> you've gotten it from being

devastating to being a survivor to now calling it a backhanded blessing. >> yes. >> what was that journey? how did you get there? >> it's quite interesting what happened. five years later, when i was diagnosed as a survivor, i didn't say anything about it until that time, until i was over that hump, that five-year hump. and i was at a golf tournament in north carolina, wilmington, north carolina. and the beauty of this event is that every year you get to see where the proceeds from the previous year went. this particular year they were raising money to buy a vehicle to go outside of the city and test people. and i said, that's incredible. i mean, people can get free examinations and what not, and it's much needed. be a survivor myself and the shock on everyone's face, yes, i

am a breast cancer survivor. well, that was an eye opener. i said, you know, i should start talking about this. and the feedback, so many men have come up to me and said, you know, as a result of reading your story, i went and got tested, and i got early diagnosis, and i've survived. i'm a survivor as well. and those stories, i characterize it as a backhanded blessing becau because, if shaft can survive it, it's a good thing. men are being tested. raising the awareness level that breast cancer is not gender specific. >> absolutely. and not only survive it but clearly, i think, there's a certain type of man that will listen to you that won't listen to anybody else at all. >> i say in my speaking -- when

the doctor told me that i had breast cancer, i said, that's something that women -- i thought that was only something that a woman could get and not something a man could get and certainly not something that i can get. i mean, we are talking about shaft up in here. i can't get. we're all talking about shaft. >> yes, we are. well said. well said. well, shaft, thank you for sharing your story with us. i think people really perk up and listen and they need to, they need to hear this message and keep on being a hip ochondriac if that's what you decide to do. for more of what happens, go to cnn.com/whatmatters. @@@@@@

tonight, a devastated mother has an angry message for her daughter's killer. watch out. we're coming to get you. somer thompson, abducted, murdered, dumped in the trash. she was only 7 years old and her mystery killer is still on the loose. now her mom vows to devote her life to finding the monster who did this. meantime, cops tracking down hundreds of leads. shifting through tons of garbage, looking for any clues that could lead to this killer. and tonight's big issue, how do we stop another child from being abducted and murdered? plus, a steamy sexual affair turns really ugly.

an espn analyst accused of sleeping with a 22-year-old co-worker turned jilted lover. take a look at these photos from tmz. when the tv commentator broke it off, this heartbroken girl allegedly started harassing his wife with nasty phone calls and letters. she even crashed her car into his house. we'll have all the jaw-dropping details. and pharmaceutical suicide. bombshell allegations in the anna nicole smith case. a pharmacist testifies she had a laundry list of prescriptions including muscle relaxants and methadone. five months later she was dead. who is responsible for prescribing her enough drugs to kill her? we'll take a look. "issues" starts now. tonight, a frantic search for a child killer. the monster who murdered 7-year-old somer thompson is still out there. cops have interviewed more than

100 sex offenders in the area. they believe none of them were involved. police zeroing in on this sinister abandoned house right there. gosh, that looks like a house of horrors. the last place they believe little somer was seen alive. could this be the house where she was murdered? crime tapes surround this dilapidated home. burned up in a fire, officers are taking bags of evidence from inside and using something called light technology presumably to detect blood and fluids. they're also combing through a dumpster in the yard. also under investigation, a public bathroom at the park right across the street from that house. is there evidence there? the vacant home and park steps away from somer's elementary school. plus a very strange twist, a mystery woman talking to local reporters. could she know something about somer's murder? police are following up more than 800 tips as somer's devastated family tries to cope with the unthinkable. with the killer still on the loose, communities in northern florida are living in fear.

many keeping their kids inside. somer's mom spoke out on nbc's "today" show. >> we're coming for you. >> are you confident that doosh >> we're going to get you. >> are you confident they'll be able to find your daughter's killer? >> i want to be confident. but i was confident that she was going to come home. and she didn't. but i know they're working. and doing it and i have faith in them. >> somer's body was found covered by truck loads of trash dumped in a landfill. investigators went there on a hunch, expecting to find perhaps a backpack or maybe a piece of clothing. what they found, two lifeless little legs poking out from under the rubble. this crime is just unspeakable. we need to find a way to stop these predators from terrorizing us.

that's a very big issue to tackle. we've got to stop somewhere. and the first step is to say, we here on issues won't cover this as just another crime story. we're going to cover this as a national crisis that must be draesed now. straight out to my expert panel. pat brown, psychiatrist dr. dale archer, former detective steve cardian and criminal defense attorney mike eiglarsh. we begin with adam with wjxt. adam, you're on the scene. what is the very latest? >> we are waiting for a news briefing at any minute now from investigators. we know this. there are two very active scenes right now and you showed both of them off the top. there is that landfill in georgia where investigators found somer's body. then there is that home right near her school. she would have walked past to it get home and that's the last place several witnesses have told police that they saw her. one of the witnesses, we're told, is a 9-year-old boy who

was riding on his bike, you saw somer leave, her brother and sister, the last time he saw her was in front of that home. now the desperate search continues at that home. it started yesterday afternoon and it is continuing today. every inch, both inside and outside. home are being looked at by investigators. >> adam, let me ask you -- let me ask you about this mystery woman. we've heard a report that a mystery woman came forward and said, oh, i was suspicious about this home and a nearby dump, or dumpster on monday, and i feel guilty that i didn't take action. tell us about that. >> yeah. police haven't said much about it. we're waiting for a news conference to start any minute. there is that report out there. a lot of people in the neighborhood are you now talking about what they may have seen and could it have meant anything. there was a suspicious van in front of that home when somer was last seen.

there is so much going on and a lot of people are looking back saying, wait a minute. did i see something? did i miss something? was there something there that i didn't report to police? in time? that's really what is going on in that neighborhood tonight. >> look at this house. it looks so creepy and eerie. like one of those halloween house of horrors and this is the home that was burned in a fire a while back that authorities are poring over with light technology to detect blood and fluids. pat brown, what does that tell you? >> they obviously have zoned right in on that, jane. there has to be something there they're really looking at. other than, that there are so many people in the neighborhood, it could be. i've been real concerned about the fact they said they've talked to those 100 or so sex offenders and they're certain that none are a suspect. i want to know how. unless you have a video camera with them at a particular point or they're in a pulpit or out of the country, i'm sorry, you but

you can't take them off the suspect list. unless they have something that they really know that we don't know. >> well, mike eiglarsh, i agree completely. you remember the horrible case of john couey who had a precious child in his trailer even as the police came by and searched for her. and it was after that search that he killed the child by burying her alive. >> i agree with you and pat. you never want to take anybody off the radar. look for corroborating evidence. unless you know for sure they're out of the country. and we know that over 160 people could not be. you keep them in your sights. the other lesson we have to learn from these cases, don't put out too much detail. specifically about the autopsy results. when one of these creeps finally starts to come along and admits to doing it, we want to make sure the information comes from firsthand knowledge of the brutality that he committed and not from what he heard from the media. >> you raise the issue of the

autopsy. the autopsy has been completed. they are not releasing a cause of death. somer's mom issuing a warning on nbc's "today" show. >> just always, it takes just a couple seconds to tell them you love them. tell them you love them because you don't know what will happen. and just make them aware of stranger danger. i tried with somer. i feel like i've failed, obviously. >> nobody would say that. >> if it just helps one. >> steve, as a criminal investigator, it has to be so tough for the investigators to get the autopsy results and then tell the mother, not just the initial news that the child has been found and identified, but then, what she died from.

and whether or not there was any sexual abuse. i mean, these are things that are so horrifying to even talk about here. bull imagine having to convey that to the mother. is that one reason they keep the cause of death and some of these details from the public? because it is disrespectful in a sense to the child and the mom? >> well, that and they're preserving the integrity of the investigation. they're doing a good job about keeping this close to the vest. for them to reveal specific details including the cause of death and whether or not she was sexually assaulted may be revealing information that only the predator or the killer may be able to provide to police in terms of qualifying that crime. and can i add one thing about that? the children of that age, they're way too young. they're way too trusting and they yet have not developed the techniques or the tactics to deal with a predator at this age. >> of course not. and unfortunately, we live in a world today where your kid cannot walk home from school, even with an older sister, because she was with her 10-year-old sister and her twin brother, and they had an argument.

there was a little girl apparently involved, and this little somer ran ahead and went out of the line of sight of her older sister. and may have got into that house. you it was right in that area where there is a house, a park, a bathroom in the park, and boom. she was gone. because isn't it true, adam, that this family jumped on this very, very quickly. i mean, the second that these kids realized their sister wasn't at home when they arrived home less than a mile walk, everybody went into action. and still, it wasn't fast enough. >> absolutely. that's what we've been talking about. even investigators, the time frame here is so short. she left her brother and sister. they got home when she wasn't there. they immediately tipped off a family friend. they started looking for her. they called police. the time frame is so short. that's really amazing. when did she disappear? there wasn't a lot of time. how could someone have snatched her? >> i want to comment on that. this is what i call the wind over opportunity. you take that read that, to he

out there every day, 24 hours a day when he is not sleeping, looking for that wind over opportunity. all he needs is one child separated from the herd he will getting attacked by a lion. that's why you cannot say, just teach your children and they'll be safe. all they need is one minute away which is why we have to get them off the street. we can't protect them. >> more on this tragic story. coming up, yet another sex scandal exposed. we'll tell you how this is shaking up the sports world. but a mother shares her bewildered grief with the world just a day after her precious daughter's body is discovered. >> for everybody who stopped by and who has passed out fliers, who has brought me food to my work and my friends and my family, and if anybody can help me find her, i just want to say you thank you to everybody.

and just bring her home to me.

♪ you are my sunshine my only sunshine ♪ ♪ you make me happy when skies are gray ♪ ♪ you'll never know, dear how much i love you ♪ this is beyond heartbreaking. the mother of 7-year-old somer thompson singing you are my sunshine. the little girl's favored song. now she is dead. her body found in a garbage pile. still out to my expert panel, dr. dale archer, we understand

that law enforcement has interviewed all of the more than 100 registered sex offenders in the immediate vicinity living there. but they often say that sex offenders are transient and they could be moving from community to community. we heard about a van who may be long gone at this point. >> as of today, there are 686,515 registered sex offenders in america. the sad news is it is estimated 100,000 are off the grid. they're not accounted for. the problem is the system is overburdened. what we need to do is take out the minor tier one and tier twos, and focus on the pedophiles. those are the ones committing these crimes. if we don't have the resources to monitor everyone, we need to know they are either in jail or know where they are at any given moment. if they stop reporting, they

need to have an arrest warrant issued immediately. >> it brings us to the big issue tonight, where do we start? take a look at these shirts. they are right. on we'll show you them right now. this has to stop. stop with somer. somer's mom pledged to devote her life to making sure this will not happen to one other family. >> i never thought in all of my life that i would ever have to do this to. even know anybody. i don't want to see another parent feel empty. i will not sleep until this person is found. i hope they get you and i hope they make you pay for a long, long time. >> we have to help this devastated mother. but how? we always talk about reforming the system. that's like saying, let's stop global warming. it is such a big issue. such a daunting task.

it feels like trying to empty the ocean one spoonful at a time. how do we take the first step in tackling this crisis in america? pat brown, i want to hear from my entire panel. but pat brown, to me, the first thing is to set an intention, a goal. and express it. and i think the goal has to be a world where children can walk home safely without worrying about being abducted, raped and murdered. that is something we need to verbalize and say, that's our goal. >> well, that is a good goal. if we don't put our money where our mouth is on this, we're going off the path. we have a simple solution. when you have any kind of predator, one who crosses the line to abduct a stranger, to rape a stranger, to commit violence against a stranger, like we're seeing, they get 12 years and are out in four. look at the guy, you know -- >> phillip garrido? >> yeah. >> he here he actually kidnaps a woman, puts her in a storage

locker, he should be in prison for life or get the death penalty. there should be no other possibility. he didn't accidentally cross any line. he did something so egregious, he should get life and that's the end. the trouble is we have sympathy. somebody. not me. somebody has sympathy, the parole boards, give him another chance. that person he attacked did not get a second chance. they have to suffer their whole life or they're dead. >> i agree with you 100%. we shouldn't have sympathy for the predators but we should have sympathy for those who are put away for nonviolent crimes. they make some mistake and end up in prison. we're packing our prisons with more people than any other country in the world. and the vast majority of them are not predators. and yet the very people we should have in prison, the predators, you see them on the dots around this town. they're all over the place. so we have an upside down criminal justice system that

needs to be completely revamped. steve cardian, you how do we separate the serious predators from the less serious ones who maybe have watched the porn that involved children which is horr horrific, but not at the same level of being an attacker. >> jane, from the petty criminals to the very serious murderers, rapists and serial killers, we have a plea bargain system in place which allows more than 85% of the predators, the criminals out there, to plead to lesser charges. therefore, receiving a reduced sentence that allows them to go out and will act as a predator again before their original term would have even been terminated in jail. >> let me make a point about this, having served as a criminal defense attorney. the reality is that a lot of the cases they have against these predators are poor. if they went to a jury, they would lose. sometimes best thing you can do is get a conviction. get a lesser sentence. they now become part of 100 or so people that can be

interviewed in the future and now they're above the radar. >> we have to leave it right there. but we are working on a special report here on "issues" where we'll examine this in-depth next week. thank you, fantastic panel.

a steamy sexual affair turns really ugly. sports analyst accused of sleeping with a co-worker turned jilted lover. take a look at these photos from tmz. when he broke it off, this heart broken girl allegedly started harassing his wife with nasty phone calls and vicious letters. cops say she even crashed her car into his house. we'll have all the jaw dropping details. and pharmaceutical suicide bombshell allegations in the anna nicole smith case. a pharmacist testifies she had a laundry list of prescriptions including muscle relaxants.

sleeping meds and methadone. five months later she was dead. who is responsible for prescribing her enough drugs to kill her? we'll take a look. but first, another shameful sex scandal exposed. philandering family man steve phillips has come clean about a tawdry sex tryst with the young production assistant. the sports guy hooked up with 22-year-old brooke hundley for three days this past july after the brief affair was over, things got very ugly very fast. cops say young brook began sending harassing text messages to steve's wife. even more bizarre, she contacted their kids on facebook posing as a high school classmate. bizarre turned to brazen in august with brooke seen here on tmz hand-delivered, allegedly, a

taunting letter to his wife. that close encounter sparked this frantic 911 call. >> wow! police say brooke used espn company property in her pursuit >> wow! what drama. police say brooke used espn company property in her pursuit of the phillips family. according to "the new york post," she is still working there. what?

we at "issues" wanted to know why and called the network but they declined to comment. hmm. very interesting. for his part, steve phillips who was sued for sexual harassment 11 years ago and settled out of court is on a "extend leave of absence." he says he wants to spend more time with his family. that should be a trifle awkward considering his wife has filed for divorce. oh, and gee, where do we even begin? how about with my fantastic expert panel and on board tonight, kim serafin with "in-touch weekly." i'm almost afraid to ask, what is the very latest in this one? >> well, you just said it. of course, he has you now taken a leave of absense. he wants to spend time with his family. and his wife has apparently filed for divorce. he obviously acknowledges right away, took the leave of absence, and it seems like this production assistant, brooke hundley is getting the bad rap. he doesn't really seem to be facing a lot of these bad, negative things about him, oddly enough.

it seems to be all about her. and of course, you look at the past instances, we just went through an i shall you you've, not totally similar, but david letterman having a sexual relationship with someone who worked for him. and we really didn't hear as much about stephanie but we're learning a lot about brooke hundley now. >> there were more shocking claims in that letter delivered to steep phillips' wife by allegedly the young production assistant brooke hundley. here are some scary quotes. "he assured me -- by the way, brooke hundley was not arrested because the phillips family decided not to press charges. is it really up to them? this is pretty serious stuff. this is alleged stalking and alleged harassment. it is even vandalism because she hit a post on the way out of the family home, apparently. >> right.

i was shaking my head because i thought you were coming to me with a crotch question. i told you, no more. >> you if you prefer, i could ask something about that. >> no, ma'am. you're absolutely -- i'll take a pass. you're right. i don't know why law enforcement don't, doesn't go after her for all the alleged crimes you just mentioned. i don't know. they should. >> i guess, wendy, there is a family that doesn't want to prosecute because they don't want the publicity. the cops are like, well, then i wouldn't get anybody to testify. so maybe it isn't worth the trouble. >> it is not up to them. you look at domestic violence court. it is packed full of defendants arrested when the victims were saying, no, no, don't take him away. you take him away and then let prosecutors decide how they're going to protect the people of the state. >> i believe this one is not over. i think we're scratching the tip of this iceberg. so to speak. on the surface, this sex

scandal, as kim just mentioned, it sounds a lot like the david letterman affair but there are some important differences. while brooke hundley is alleged to have stalked the brooks family, this young woman here, stephanie, was outed because she reportedly left her diary, her secret diary out. where her reportedly jealous boyfriend you was able to find and it read it and may have allegedly become enraged over what he read about stephanie and dave in the diary. so we can contrast those two, the way these two paramours are in the media. check out these descriptions in "the new york post." this is about stephanie. a pretty former late show staffer. now, check out the quotes about the espn check. and the "post" also called brooke schlubby. dr. dale archer, is there some kind of underlying sexism here

in the sense, if you're ugly or perceived to be not attractive, and you do something like this, you get taken to task but if you're cute, and you do something like this, as a female, it is perceived more as, oh, a fun anecdote and gossip? >> no. i think that in her case -- >> which her? >> right. >> the brooke hundley case. i think she basically you was on record saying she was going to do whatever it took further her career in the media. so i think that she is being portrayed in this case as a gold digger using him to try to make it to the top in the media world. and when that did not work, of course, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. >> see, i think that's sexist. this guy has a track record. i'm going to steve on this. this is not the first or only time steve phillips has cooked up his own sex scandal stew. 11 years ago, he was general

manager of the new york mets and he admitted to having sex with a team employee who sued him for sexual harassment. that case you was later settled out of court. "the new york post" quotes a source who says phillips is suspected of sleeping with several espn employees. so again, back to dale archer. this is more than hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. >> i had only done half of it. now we have to go to mr. phillips and say, look, he does have a record of being a serial adulterer, without a doubt. and that i think these two guys deserve each other. they ended up in a situation that is horrible for both their careers. he's lost his wife. he will lose his kids probably in the custody battle. so i think that it is a tragic tale and a cautionary tale for anybody out there who wants to enter into an extra-marital affair. this is what can happen on both

sides. >> another issue is why does espn and all these networks hire these people with significant baggage. they say we'll forget about. every time i look at, let's say, marv albert, i'm thinking, good analysis, cross-dresser, bizarre sexual behavior. i can't get it out of my mind. >> yeah, well, okay. all i can tell you is that it reminds me of that movie "fatal attraction." we ever more to tell you but. we'll leave it right there, fabulous panel. up next, is michael jackson's mom in the poor house? we'll tell you why she is asking a california judge for a lot more money. and then, is foul play to blame for anna nicole smith's death? her pharmacist drops some stunners in court.

>> take a look at that. that's so pathetic. it comes in so many forms, the substance ahead, alcohol. in the pages of my you new book, "i want," i talk about my addiction to alcohol and how i overcame it 14 and a half years ago. if you're struggling with any addiction of any sort, drugs, alcohol, food, sex, co-dependency, this book will help you. go to cnn.com/jane and preorder your copy or you can get it in the book stores. i hope you get help for yourself or someone you love.

let's meet today's winner. al from california says he hit rock bottom in 2006. he even got a black eye. take a look at that. black eye. falling off his bicycle on the way to buy drugs. ouch! that's bottom. believe it or not, it was his drug dealer. his drug dealer who told him he had a problem. but after struggling through treatment, al made it and you now he has more than three years of sobriety. look at the difference. look how fantastic he looks right there.

he also gave up smoking and sugar and he's been exercising regularly. al even rediscovered his passion for music and often performs on the third street promenade in santa monica. i think i've seen you, dude! after sharing your story, you'll be getting an autographed copy of my new book, "i want" plus to visit the set of "issues." either that or i'll fly out to santa monica and we can just jam out there on the promenade. i love to do that, too. way to go. congratulations on your sobriety. you new revelations into anna nicole smith's death. first, top of the block tonight. mind-boggling developments over the fight over michael jackson's estate. michael jackson's mom having a hard time paying her bills. this is what tmz is reporting. allegedly her $30,000 a month allowance isn't enough. she apparently is demanding more money. keep in mind she was granted

full custody of his three kids. wait a second. they have their own monthly income, a healthy 60,000 clams. i have to ask, where is all this money going? it has to be going to more than candy. according to tmz, katherine's lawyers said because she's made more money this year, she has to pay more in taxes. more pocket change because of taxes? they called this an embarrassing display of public greed. i'll tell you, i don't know. i think she could be taken a page from her wild spending son. remember him? the late great michael jackson? he knew how to spend. that's tonight's tom of the block. the tragic death of anna nicole smith. who is responsible for her death? the drug pushing enablers or concerned friends? she died from an overdose of prescription drugs. were they needed? was she overmedicated? that's all the stuff they're

trying to determine in a los angeles courtroom right now as we speak. a preliminary hearing being held this week to find out if the one-time playmate was illegally furnished drugs. now, just on the stand, a pharmacist by the name of ira friedman. he said he warned ana's doctors that she was being given too many drugs and was at risk for pharmaceutical suicide. what did those drugs do to smith? take a look at this video. her long-time companion, howard k. stern. >> does that help howard k. stern? that he illegally gave anna nicole smith drugs? they have all pleaded not guilty.

the model died of an accidental overdose in 2007. back out to my fabulous panel and again, we have to go back to kim, senior editor of "in-touch weekly." sort it out for us. a whole lot going on at this hearing. i understand some fireworks between larry birkhead and the prosecutors? >> exactly. a lot going. as you just mentioned, anna would be xhitding farm suitical sue pd. he was so concerned that he actually consulted an expert, someone he worked with who said that the doctor apparently was out of her league when he saw this list of what was being prescribed to her. and as you mentioned, there are some fireworks, too. larry birkhead said that he felt he was being encouraged to ramp up the testimony to try to curry sympathy about dannielynn from

the d.a. who said something to him. now this deputy d.a. said to him, she felt that he was taking howard k. stern's side in this. and you now apparently this deputy d.a. is no longer serving as the deputy d.a. and is back to being a you law clerk. >> this is a huge can of worms. thanks for explaining it. let's try to sorted it out. larry birkhead is the father of anna nicole smith's daughter. when she first died, birkhead was very outspoken at a hearing in florida about anna nicole smith's behavior. vis-a-vis drugs. now it seems like he is maybe changing his tune a little bit. listen to this. >> at times i took her medicine and i was told by mr. stern to give it back to her because she needed it to live. and in addition to that, i just told her over and over, i said don't.

something is going to happen to you something is going to happen. >> when you said something, she referenced back to the bottles with the doctor's name on it. you found some comfort that a doctor was prescribing this and that they were supposed >> so kim serafin, explain this to me. some people feel like larry birkhead is somehow aligned with howard k. stern and is backing off this whole drug abuse allegation. >> well, again, he is saying he is not taking howard k. stern's side. like he said, he was insulted when this deputy d.a. kind of implied that he was, he said they were riding up in an elevator and she said to him she thought that he was taking howard's side and that he said he's not. he said he's telling it like it is. >> so is he telling it like it is that she had a drug problem, anna nicole smith, or his opinion that she didn't have a drug problem? >> again, we're hearing so many

different testimonies. it's hard to say she didn't have a drug problem when you're hearing about people injecting drugs into her. >> jane -- >> i'm going to get back to you after the break. you can absorb all of this information. hang in there, everyone. we're going to go to break. when we come back, we'll analyze this very complex case and the many, many drugs, talking about vis-a-vie anna nicole smith smith. nan