rinchts now the intense search for 7-year-old somer thompson killers, neighbors eyeing neighbors. cops just put out an urgent alert describing what to look for. they believe someone in this tight-knit community knows more. why isn't this person coming forward? we'll give you the latest. levi johnston upping the ante on national tv. trashing bristol palin, his ex. says sarah palin routinely called her down syndrome baby retarded. and these new claims of a dirty secret that could get sarah palin into serious trouble.

what do you think of levi? is he legit or just bitter, looking out for revenge and trying to stir the pot for many and fame? call in, the number, 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail us, cnn.com/primenews. or shoot us a text at hlntv. just start your message with the word prime. it's your chance to be heard. welcome. this is "prime news." i'm mike galanos. all right. a new, urgent alert in the search for 7-year-old somer thompson killer. the first grader, orange park, florida, kidnapped on a walk home from school. so innocent. in her little red jumper, her hannah montana bookbag, hair in a ponytail. what kind of monster would abduct and kill this cute little girl? well, just hours ago police put the entire neighborhood on alert. they believe someone knows something but is not coming forward. >> we are asking the public's assistance to identify persons who have exhibited changes in their behavioral patterns,

leaving the area unexpectedly for what seems like a very plausible reason such as going to work or to visit a friend or a relative. missing work or our routine engagements, particularly on the afternoon or night of the incident. >> all right. we'll take your calls on this, your comments, your questions, 1-877-tell-hln is the number. joining me now to talk about this, we welcome back sam unanimo thompson, somer's father. and also pat brown, criminal profiler. samuel, let me start with you. i know in having lost family members myself, it's those days after that get difficult. i want to start on a human level here. yesterday you celebrate little somer's life. there's people around you. is today more difficult? you know, have you really come to realize that she is gone? >> yes. you know, at first you're in

shock, and then as time progresses on, you know, it really starts to set in how heavy the loss of somer is, and, yeah, it gets harder every minute. especially until we catch this guy. >> samuel, let's talk about that. are you focusing now on that, just the -- just finding who did this? and what are police telling you at this point? >> well, the police aren't saying all lot right now becaus they have to keep all of their evidence under wraps right now. whoever's out there, they don't want them to have the information that they know. so right now, you know, i have to just focus on -- on the hopes and prayers that we catch this

guy because if i let myself think of the horrible things that were done to my daughter, you know, i just can't stand it. i miss her so much. you know, i just -- i just want my little girl back, and i know it will never happen. but we're going to get this guy. >> samuel, again, our thoughts and prayers are with you for strength. being a father myself, i can't even imagine what you're going through. so we just pray for your strength, your family's strength at this time. what do you think -- from what we're hearing from authorities, it sounds like it's someone in that area. it's someone that could be in that neighborhood. do you believe that? >> i certainly believe so. you know, most of the time they say an instance like this is someone who knew the family or someone who was close to the family, so i definitely believe there's somebody in that neighborhood who knows something, and they need to come forward. >> let's bring in pat brown, our criminal profiler.

pat, you've pretty much said all along your belief -- and correct me if i'm wrong -- is that it is someone in that -- in that vicinity, right? and it's someone in that neighborhood could very well know something? >> absolutely, mike. somebody in the neighborhood because they wouldn't have used a local dumpster if they could have taken her out of town and done something else with her. here's something, i want to kind of change what the police have to say. first of all, somebody who doesn't necessarily know anything. it's amazing how many times serial killers will just simplysimply just jump out of the woodwork and disappear. their wives, girlfriend, guy next door says, well, he's a little odd but i never suspected anything. so somebody may not know anything. but here's what the police should be telling people along with what they've already said, the guy who did this is a sexual predator. he is a psycho path. he's probably a manipulative guy. probably lies. he probably is very narcissistic, and he probably has no empathy. if you know a guy like that, also if you know whether he's done anything shady in the days before or surrounding summer's abduction and murder, you should

definitely report that to the police. but you may not really recognize it unless you know what psychopaths act like. >> so you're saying, pat, that somebody could do this and not even -- there's no tip-off to anybody close to them? they can just do this and go back to whatever life they were leading? >> absolutely. because they already act squirrely and people around them expect them to act xwit lsquirr. this is probably an upstanding citizen. so the fact he's odd or lies sometimes is something they're used to. and another thing the police said is look for a guy that changed his appearance after the fact. there's no reason to do that. there's no composite out there. he has no reason to change his appearance. he doesn't necessarily have to disappear from the area if he feels like nobody will be looking at him anyway. and every day that goes by he's laughing saying, nobody's looking my direction. >> let's listen to sheriff rick bessler, who's been on talking about if anybody knows anything in that area.

>> we have reason to believes there are individuals who have information pertinent to this investigation who have yet to come forward specifically. we are referring to people who may know or associate with the offender in this case. >> okay. there you go again, pat. so you're not necessarily agreeing with that in the sense you think somebody knows something. it could be someone who just committed this heinous crime, and that's that? >> it could be. although sometimes will you have a guy who, for example, will borrow your car and then return it to you and say, yeah, i even cleaned it for you. and he will say, can you hide this knife for me? there are guys who will do this. if someone had come and said those kinds of things to you, you know cousin ernie is like that and kind of been weird, yeah, you want to turn that information in. what a lot of people don't know, really if they got the right guy and they feel uncomfortable ratting out somebody that's just a ll bit odd to them. and that's one of the difficulties police have in getting information. >> pat, we always appreciate your insights. we will continue to follow this. samuel thompson, thank you as

well for joining us. again, our thoughts and prayers are with you at this time. we pray for your strength, sir. thank you for your time. >> thank you very much and god bless you and everyone who's helping. >> thank you. hopefully we'll talk soon as we hope justice will be served very soon. coming up, speaking of wanting justice, more arrests in that high school gang rape. police saying a 15-year-old california girl robbed, raped and beaten for more than two hours. and it happened during the homecoming dance. this is a school that's known to have had on-campus violence, yet no one's patrolling outside the school?

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we have new details just coming in. more arrests in the gang rape of a 15-year-old girl outside her high school homecoming dance. we told you about it yesterday. it's 15-year-old in richmond, california, raped, beaten for 2 1/2 hours in a dark alley on the school grounds. cops say several saw this and did nothing. some even joined in when they heard about it. now a total of five guys have been arrested. they change in age from 15 to 21 and cops say they expect even more arrests. this high school has had trouble with oncampus violence and one question, obviously, with that said, shouldn't someone have been outside patrolling outside the dance on a friday night? we take your phone calls as always, 1-877-tell-hln. is the number. joining us to talk about this, charles ramsey, school board member. he's been at the school since 1993 and has two daughters in the school district. and also with us, our psychologist wendy walsh. charles, let me start with you. and let's hit on that first point. i believe you already talked about that.

>> yes, i have. >> you go back to when any of us were in high school. outside the dances, where there often times is trouble, shouldn't someone have been patrolling out there? isn't that policy or not? >> mike, first i want to send out my thoughts and prayers to the victim and her family for this just disgusting and despicable act. i mean, it was barbaric. and to respond to your question, i think absolutely. we have to acknowledge and recognize that there needed to be strategies and practices in place to ensure that this type of -- this type of crime couldn't have happened or shouldn't have happened. what we do know, and what we are going to do is continue to have a conversation with our classmate, with our community, and hopefully across this country about what we need to do to prevent these kind of acts from happening to young women and to others. it's not fair. it's not something that we can condone. and it's something that we have

to address, because it's becoming a situation that's gotten out of control. >> yeah. well, were there procedures or policies in place where someone should have been patrolling and didn't? >> well, those facts will come out, and the obvious reality is that, yes, we should have individuals overseeing the entire campus. that's why we had four police officers there. that's why we had two supervisors. i'm not going to sit here and deny that we should have had more transparency in terms of making sure that people canvas the campus. >> yeah. let's get a phone call in. people across the country just heartbroken when they hear the details of this. key is with us in michigan. hi, keia, go ahead. >> caller: well, my comment is this. when kids do crimes, they get a slap on the wrist and go home. no one is taking what our children are doing very, very seriously and it's getting out of hand because now the children

have no respect for themselves. they don't have respect for others or those who are in authority. they took away the paddling from the school, and they're taking away the rights of parents to discipline their children. i think this all started, all of this stuff is starting because we can't control our children. >> well, you make a good point, key. let's bring in wendy walsh on that. wendy -- and that's on a grand scale, when we see this, that's what people wonder, how have we gotten to this point where we have a 15-year-old possibly involved in a brutalizing a 15-year-old? what are your thoughts, wendy? >> well, what we saw last night is classic bystander effect, right? the bigger group of people watching, the less chance that someone's going to call 911. that's just a psychological phenomenon that has gone on since it was discovered, what, in 1964 when poor kitty was killed in new york -- >> in new york. >> queens, new york, and up positive 38 people watched that and heard her screams and nobody called. that's the event. this woman is talking about

something else, mike. she's talking about our moral compass in america. and as parents we're trying to figure out who's doing the moral teaching? because we're seeing religion on the decline, organized religion on the decline. more people in america now say they are spiritual than religion, but religion often functioned as god as a big cop in the sky for many people. so how do we instill healthy amounts of remorse, guilt, compassion -- >> compassion. >> -- and empathy in our young people? >> you make a good point. we're going to take a quick break. but that's it. how can someone watch this and not even make the anonymous 911 call? we'll continue this conversation. there will be a forum tonight. we'll ask charles who's going to be there. what we hope to get out of that. and we'll take your thoughts and calls. you know the number, 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we are continuing our conversations, we're trying to come to grips with the fact a 15-year-old girl was gang raped and beaten for 2 1/2 hours. this is outside of a homecoming dance in richmond, california. we're taking your calls, your observations, your thoughts on how we have come to this place. 1-877-tell-hln is the phone number. we have with us charles ramsey, school board member. so close to him, he has kids at the school. also with us wendy walsh, our psychologist. charles, i want to get out there. you're having a forum tonight. who's going to be there and what do you hope to get out of it?

>> i along with other school board members are taking ownership of this problem. we're not going to stand idly by and let these events take place in our community. so what we're going to have tonight is a forum to have a community conversation about next steps. not just on the enforcement arm, but on the education arm. >> yeah. >> we want to make sure that we instill in young people different values. and it is about the moral compass. it is about being in a situation that just stands idly by and observes the brutal rape of a 15-year-old young woman. she didn't deserve that. >> no. >> and our community needs to understand and this country needs to understand that attitudes about women, attitudes about power, attitudes about anger, need to be addressed and handled in a different way. >> exactly. >> and this was inappropriate behavior. and we, along with the superintendent of the schools, we're the fourth largest school district here in northern california. we're going to make sure that we send out the message loud and clear, and i want to thank you, mike, for having me on today to be able to have this

conversation. >> yes, charles, we have to talk about this. >> to tackle this issue. we have to tackle this issue. and it has to start in the neighborhoods. it has to start in the faith community. it has to start in the living room, in the dining room, around the kitchen table. it has to start in the classroom. it has to be spoken every minute of every day that women cannot be treated like this and young girls. >> wendy, is it good to show our kids this story? i mean, we're going to leave out the graphic nature of it, but to talk about a 15-year-old getting attacked and no one does anything, can our kids learn from hearing about this brutality? >> i'm a big believer in when it's age appropriate, in other words, not small, small children certainly not under the age of 8 or 7 or something. >> no, right. >> but as they get older and they're developing their own moral identity, these kinds of lessons can be helpful, especially if they're explained by a parent who also helps educate the children what their moral thinking is. you know what, the woman caller earlier who said they have taken out paddling. they have taken out corporate

punishment of our kids. hitting kids is not the way to shape good behavior. the way to help our kids is by being helpful and going out of our way. the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. and the kids are going to eventually turn out how we live our lives. >> i agree with you, mike. >> we want our kids' hearts to be broken when they walk by something like this and they just have to do something and not, from what we're hearing, there were some that heard about it and wanted to join in, which is just even more appalling. we got about 30 seconds, charles. go ahead. >> mike, we have to acknowledge, there has to be accountability. but at the same time we have to look at processes and procedures that are going to move us forward as a community to be able to be successful. i have two young daughters, adrienne and monica. and i want them to go to school knowing that they will be safe. and we're going to do everything we can and i want to thank you and we need to have a larger conversation about this. >> okay. charles, wendy, we appreciate it. thanks, guys. coming up -- former alabama judge herman thomas accused of spanking inmates. we'll tell you what happened in that case coming up. d d d d d d

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we are continuing our conference about a judge in alabama, herman thomas. he was accused of some horrific crimes. the charges, sexual abuse, attempted sod bomy. inmates claimed the judge would check them out of jail and among other things spank them and perform sex acts. those were some of the charges. he's been acquitted. going over this case with his attorney, bob clark. also with us a criminal defense attorney. bob, correct me if i'm wrong, one of the alleged victims -- and if kids are in the room, forgive me for your parents out

there -- one of the inmate's semen was found on the carpets in the judge's office, correct? >> that's right. >> how is that explained away? how did that go down in court? help us out with that? >> it's very simple. there were two inmates -- i don't need to name them, but there were two inmates that semen was in the carpet in a room that was ajadjacent to the judge's suite. anyhow, one of them said he had gone in there -- this is his testimony. this is what he told the fbi when they were threatening them, that he went in and masturbated while judge thomas wasn't in the room. and the other one, whose dna was found in the same carpet area, said that he had never been in that room, and he didn't know how it got there. so if he don't know how it got there, i damn sure don't know how it got there. >> right. nicole, that had to be huge, huge blow against the prosecution, right? >> absolutely. the problem in this case is that i don't think that the

prosecution's witnesses even knew what the prosecution's case was. and, you know, they're just going to have to come to terms with the fact that all of these facts have been laid out there and the jurors heard the case and the jurors decided to acquit this man. they've gotten their pound of flesh. they've dragged him name through the mud and now the claes is concluded. >> speaking of that point, here's a facebook comment from cornelius writing, how do you come back from something like that? guilty or not, he's branded for the rest of his life. bob, i'll start with you. is your client -- do you respect him to resume his duties as judge? what does he have to go through to get to that place again? or is that part of his career done? >> oh, that part of his career is over. he resigned -- didn't resign. he retired from the bench. he had enough time in to go ahead and retire and he went ahead and retired in hopes that things would, you know, mobile's been a racially divided city for many years, and everybody -- we have a black mayor down there, sam jones, who is an excellent mayor. we all tried or at least a lot of us tried to put racism behind

us and move forward. this case we couldn't do that. but now that it's over, it's time to do that. like nicole said, this case is over. you can shoot the gun in there and call the dogs and put out the fire. the hunt's over. and i don't know why they keep dragging it out. three jurors -- it doesn't matter what three jurors say. a juror cannot impeach his own verdict. if that was his verdict then, that's going to be his verdict until he's dead. >> got you. >> bob, nicole, we appreciate it, guys. >> thank you. >> thanks again. we'll get you updated on the northwest pilots again who flew past their destination, minneapolis. minneapolis, claims they were on the laptop. some thought they were snoozing. the licenses revoked. what about that? is that enough punishment? where does this stand? what's next in the investigation? taking your calls, 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. all right. is levi johnston trashing sarah palin again? you better believe it. the father of bristol palin's son. so his son is part of the palin family. yet he's going on national tv, magazine articles just ripping away at sarah palin. what are your thoughts on levi? is he legit, or do you think this is about bitterness, revenge, money grab, fame grab? call in, 1-877-tell-hln. all right. continue to follow this one. you know, dealing with distracted drivers on the road.

that's scary enough. well, how -- now we have to worry about distracted pilots at 30,000 feet? two northwest pilots had their licenses revoked for goofing off on their lap tops in the cockpit. at least that's their story. the faa, are they buying it? "prime news" correspondent richelle carey is here with more as we continue to follow this one. this case has got some folks rattled. >> oh, yeah, mike. the pilots claim, we know, they were working on their laptops, i mean, just engrossed in something clearly and they lost track of time and they overshot the runway at the minneapolis airport by 150 miles. so clearly they've got some explaining to do. so authorities think -- they think the pilots fell asleep. so this is the letter they fired off. this is what the faa said -- "you engaged in conduct that put your passengers and your crew in serious jeopardy. northwest flight 188 was not in communications with controllers or the airline dispatchers." this is the best part.

listen to this, mike, "while you were on a frolic of your own" -- yes, frolic, "this is a total dereliction and disregard for your duties." so effective immediately, mike, their licenses have been revo revoked. so frolic, mike. frolic. >> is part of the frolic the snooze? is the faa flat-out saying we think you were snoozing? >> yes, yes. >> let's get that clear on the table. there it is. we'll put a blanket over it. they're snoozing. >> all right. >> couldn't resist. thank you, by the way, as we get the table set for everybody on this one. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining us to talk about it, private pilot aviation attorney, justin green's with us. also with us civil law attorney. oh, there's nicole deborde with us. okay. let's get to basics here. justin, i'll start with you. everyone's thinking,seeing

and the details, what do you think? >> the snooze is a much more likely scenario, more believable. and i actually don't really think it makes a difference. either they're sleeping and that's pretty bad. but as humans you can understand someone might fall asleep. if they're actually on the laptops for over an hour, one pilot giving the other pilot a course and they're ignoring communications that they actually hear, and they're flying past their destination, i think that, that scenario may be even more scary than the fact that they fell asleep. >> let me pick up on one of your original points, does it matter? either way they're distracted. i think we're a little alarmed if we think they're sleeping. how does it matter if you're doling out punishment in what their futures might hold? >> it doesn't matter at all. the only issue is if they're tired as an aviation safety person and somebody who litigates these cases on behalf of victims of aviation disasters, i'm going to be looking at the fatigue program that the airline has. if they're actually doing a

little course which they're saying their doing -- and by the way, it's going to be pretty easy for investigators to tell whether one pilot gave the other pilot an hour course during the flight, because you just put them in two different rooms and ask them about the course that was given. and if their story matches up, well, maybe they actually did what they're saying that they were doing. but it doesn't matter. either case, gross dereliction of duty, reckless behavior, endangerment of the flight. and so i think that the faa's actions are commendable. >> right on the money here. john, civil law attorney. what recourse the pilots have? do you expect them to appeal? what's next for them? >> well, i expect them to appeal. i don't know that they'll get anywhere with it. in essence, they're making an example of them and they should be made an example of. this is something that they shouldn't have done, whether they were sleeping or whether they got enthralled in their discussion. and basically forgot to land the airplane. that's what they're there to do.

from a criminal perspective, i don't see unless there's a criminal statute that specifically they can point to, you can't make up criminal statutes afterward, they would have to look to that. from a civil point of view, could the passengers in fact sue the airline, sue the pilots? well, i'm sure that there's faa regulations that would prevent that, and i'm sure that when they signed -- when they bought the ticket, there's enough red ink or fine -- you know, fine print that protects the airlines as well as the pilots, keeps them indemnified, holds them marmless. >> gotcha. justin, when people look at this and there's talk of what do we need now, cameras, monitoring what's going on in the cockpit? are we at that point after this story? >> well, it's actually a very interesting point, because after the colgan disaster up in buffalo, there was talk about using the cockpit voice recorders not only to -- for use in accident investigation but also to be monitoring the pilots and the ntsb and the pilots

union are against that because they're saying, look, the pilots are deserving some privacy in the cockpit, and really we don't want to make the use of video or the use of cockpit voice recorders as -- as a kind of monitoring tool. we want to preserve it only as a crash investigation tool. and just to respond to the point about lawsuits, i believe that if the victims or if the passengers had been injured in this case, they have a very solid lawsuit, regardless of any disclaimers on their tickets. the thing is, i don't think the passengers had injuries because they didn't even know what the pilots were doing. >> right, exactly. hey, real quick, john, about cameras monitoring what's going on in the cockpit, do you think it will fly legally? >> it's after the fact. the point of the matter is you need to prevent this from happening in the first place. and that's somehow get in touch with the pilots and wake them up. if it means wake them up through some buzzer or vibrator, wake them up. if it means they're distracted

and they lost track of time, wake them up. this is an after-the-fact discussion. you're just siding what happened, what happened, what happened. i would rather -- and that's what my practice is all about, prevent it from happening in the first place. 90 minutes they're out of touch. after 9/11, how could you have a pilot out of touch for 90 minutes where you've got airplanes ready to -- federal airplanes ready to intercept them? >> yeah. >> that's egregious. that's out of control. >> it is. i think the only argument for the camera to help prevent something like this from happening again, something would see, john and sue, they're snoozing, wake them up. i guess that would be the big argument. >> how would you wake them up? >> that's a good point. >> they missed 13 different communications. there were red lights. i mean, you would have to tell the flight attendants, could you make sure you contact the pilots 20 minutes before you land so we can make sure they're not distracted or not sleeping. >> good point. >> it's out of control. >> yeah. all right, guys, where he appreciate it. justin, john, thanks again. >> thank you, mike. >> thanks, guys.

coming up -- levi johnston going after sarah palin. this guy is sarah palin's grandmother to his son. yet he's ripping away. what do you make of this guy? you think his claims are legit, or is this all about levi cashing in on his 15 minutes of fame, maybe now about 20 minutes. call in, 1-877-tell-hln.

we have to wonder if levi johnston is getting paid a lot of money from somebody to continue to trash sarah palin. it's his son's grandmother. well, he teed off on the former alaskan governor's "vanity fair" article. now he's going after her again on national tv, going as far as to say sarah palin called her own down syndrome baby retarded. here's levi johnston on the cbs "early show." and you can feel the undercurrent of his motive,

bitterness and revenge. >> it threw me out there and that came out that sarah didn't really like me. i knew todd didn't like me. so they were kind of betraying me at the same time, back stabbing me, just putting on a front to me to make sarah look good at the convention and everything else. so i really don't care anymore. >> are you hurt by all of this? >> i was, yeah. now it's just kind of like, all right, well now it's my turn. >> my turn. revenge there. we contacted sarah palin, and she responds by saying, quote -- this is part of her statement -- we have purposely ignored the mean-spirited, malicious and untrue attacks on our family. we, like many, are appalled at the inflammatory statements being made or implied. trig is our blessed little angel who knows it and is lovingly called that every day of his life. what are your thoughts on levi teeing off like this? is there any truth to it, or is he just cashing in on his 15 minutes of fame? call in, 1-877-tell-hln is the

phone number. joining us to talk about it, michael saw, reporter, "new york daily news." also with us, anything coal deborde and also with us, blogger, rachel compos duffy, mother of five and author of "stay home, stay happy." michael, first off, what are you making of this? first off, i'm seeing bitterness and revenge from levi. what are you seeing here? >> i think there is some bitterness and revenge. he feels like the family threw him off the bus and as we thrust into the spotlight last year when governor palin became the vice presidential nominee. and after he broke up with the governor's daughter, they -- he and the governor have been in this massive national talk feud where he's been saying stuff about the family and they've been saying stuff about him, and he feels betrayed and it sounds like he has some dirt on him, and is threatening to use it. >> okay. is he getting paid -- did he get paid for the "vanity fair" article? is he going to get paid for the

"playgirl" deal? what do we though about any of that? >> he's certainly going to be paid for the "playgirl" deal, which he says he's going to keep classy. >> yeah. >> but the interview that took place today on national television, he did not get paid for that. >> okay. did not get paid. how about "vanity fair"? >> you know, i'm not sure -- >> not sure. >> -- if "vanity fair" paid him. but good question. certainly getting paid for "playgirl." and certainly he was flown out for -- to do the interview with cbs. >> nicole, again, he's making some damaging claims here. does sarah palin, i mean, is it time to call the lawyers? is there a slander she can throw back at him? >> it's possible. it's possible at this point. the problem for sarah palin is this, that she has become a public figure by her own choosing, by becoming involved in politics. and public figures have a much more difficult time prosecuting cases of slander. to get damages on these cases. now, that doesn't mean she can't try. and that can certainly cost levi a lot of heart ache and money to

defend himself. >> here it is again. it's hard to believe, but here's levi saying it, claiming sarah palin -- this is on the cbs "early show" by the way, saying that sarah palin had referred to her down syndrome baby, who they refer to >> when would she say that? >> just coming home from work. and she's like, where's my retarded baby? all this. it just wasn't right. i mean, i would never say anything to her, but at the same time we were all kind of like -- >> can you understand why that's really hard to believe, that a mother would say that? >> it is hard to believe, yeah. i mean, but -- yeah, i couldn't tell you -- i have no proof of showing you it's true. but i know it is. >> this guy knows no line of decency. if you're sarah palin, you want him to go away and wise up. but, you know, you've got to stand up and fight, right? he's talking about the family like this? >> obviously this is not good news for the palins.

but frankly, as a mom watching this, i know -- the other guest said that he heard revenge, and bitterness. i see a very scared, inarticulate boy. and i'll tell you what, it probably says more about the media than it does about the palins. i mean, those morning shows are notoriously difficult to get on. i know, i'm promoting a book right now on, it's not easy to get on that show. this is nothing more than idle school boy gossip, and that he's getting booked on this show, that he's going on to, you know, a respectable magazine like "vanity fair." this is the same media that would not report on a presidential candidate having an affair and a love child, the national inquirer had to cover that. this is national enquirer news. >> call in on this one, 1-877-tell-hln.

right now, the intense search for #-year-old somer thompson's killer has neighbors eyeing neighbors. cops just put out an urgent alert describing what to look out for. they think someone in this tight-knit community knows more. why isn't this person coming forward? a woman says she was drugged and raped. then dropped by her health insurance company. denied coverage. she says because her doctor prescribed anti-hiv medicine. you're a rape victim and you're going to get punished for it? your insurance company is going to dump you. call in, 1-877-tell-hln.

e-mail us cnn.com/primenews. or text us at hlntv, just start your message with the word prime. it's your chance to be heard. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com welcome. this is hour number two of "prime news." i'm mike galanos. a new urgent alert for 7-year-old somer thompson's killer. kidnapped as she was walking home from school. the words, the picture painted here, innocent little girl in her little red jumper, hannah montana book bag, hair in a ponytail. who would abduct and kill her. police put the entire neighborhood on alert. they believe someone knows something. but is not coming forward. >> we are asking the public's assistance to identify persons who have exhibited changes in their behavioral patterns, leaving the area unexpectedly for what seems like a very plausible reason, such as going

to work or to visit a friend or a relative. missing work, or other routine engagements, particularly on the afternoon or night of the incident. >> joining me to talk about this, we welcome samuel thompson, somer's father. also with us, pat brown, criminal profiler. pat, since we're on the topic of the investigation, we're getting that feeling from authorities that it is someone in this community, and someone knows something. are you seeing that? >> well, i agree with the sheriff that it is someone in the community, because her body wouldn't have been dumped into a local dumpster if it was somebody who was going to travel through town and dump her somewhere else. sometimes we say this, the police department comes out and says, somebody knows something, everybody says, then i must know that the guy committed the crime or he must have told me or so odd behaving, i know it's him.

but it's more subtle than that. the problem is, you're talking about a sexual predator, a psychopath who probably always has odd behavior. what is different about his behavior now. that's what's more difficult for people to identify. >> yeah. let's bring in somer's dad, samuel thompson. samuel, are you in contact with investigators? are they telling you much at this point? >> i'm not in a lot of contact with them. i touch base with them briefly occasionally. and pretty much everything that you see on tv is the same thing that they tell me. you know, they can't let a lot of information out before they have concrete evidence, so, you know, what you see on tv is the same information that i'm getting. >> yeah. sammy, how are you holding up? because it wasn't long ago that this happened. just tell us -- are you able to stay strong at this point?

how are you holding up? >> without the support of everybody here in orange park, all the news stations, my family, friends, my church, you know, just everybody across america pulling together, like we do, which is what makes america the greatest country in the world. i really don't think i could stand this. and i really want to say thank you to everybody. and i love you. and god bless everybody. because what you're doing, especially for oh-for my wife diena and my children and myself, you may not realize it, but all this support that you're giving us, it really makes it possible to get through this. >> again, you are in our thoughts and prayers, samuel. let's get a phone call in. kathy is with us in louisiana. kathy, your thoughts here?

>> caller: i just wanted to say that what would happen is whenever these people would stop doing this, is whenever we would stop giving them a slap on the wrist. we had a child at my preschool, and her sister was kidnapped, raped and dumped at a graveyard. and this -- these -- this guy has already had three trials. and has taunted the mother of the child in several of the trials. the judge had to say he was going to gag him. >> we talked about it, it infuriates people when we talk about tougher sentences, locking up and throwing away the key with some of these folks. and it's just not happening enough. >> absolutely. that is the big problem. phillip garrido, for example, he was out there. he kidnapped a woman, put her in a storage locker, raped her, and he gets out, what, in 10 or 12

years, and put back on the street. like somebody thinks that guy can be rehabilitated and safe to have around. i would like to send that person home with the parole board's daughter and say would you leave them alone with him? no, you wouldn't. they're never, never safe. if we would do that, we would cut these crimes down immensely. >> gary is with us in hawaii. gary, go ahead. >> caller: it's gerry. >> i'm sorry. >> caller: that's okay. my comment is, there is no cure for sexual predators. you throw them in jail for 50 years, let them out, they do it again. give them a life sentence or execute them. they're hurting our children. the laws need to be changed. this is going on and on and on. we need to protect our children. everything i've studied, there's no cure for pedophiles. >> gerry, thank you again for the phone call. pat, there it is again. the recidivism. the odds that it's going to

happen again, that they're going to reoffend. they're so high. >> exactly. i'm in total agreement these guys need a life sentence or the death penalty, one or the other. you cannot rehabilitate them. this is something people don't seem to get. if you can cross the line to abduct and rape somebody and kill them, i'm sorry, how is this a crime of a person who has a little bit of a problem? it's so outrageous to society, it's so horrific, you took away somebody's life, raped them, excuse me, you never get another chance. your victim is never going to get another chance in life. you're so sick we don't need you out there. it's unbelievable people think they should get another chance and have any hope anywhere. >> about 30 seconds. we've talked about authorities, and you believe as well this is someone in the area that did this. what would tell you that it's someone that maybe swooped in, did this heinous act and moved on? and they're a mobile sex offender, predator. >> i don't think so, because her body was put in a dumpster that was local. i think this guy didn't either

have a vehicle and would just run down the street and wanted to get rid of her quickly. very local. everybody look for the creepy psychopath missing that time of day. >> pat, thank you again. samuel thompson, again, our thoughts and prayers are with you for your strength. hopefully we'll talk when whoever did this is brought to justice. >> god bless you. thank you, too. another just shocking story. high school gang rape. the victim is 15 years old. there have been more arrests. that's coming up.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we have new details just coming

in. more arrests in the gapg rape of a 15-year-old outside her high school homecoming dance. we told you about it yesterday. 15-year-old in richmond, california, raped and beaten for two and a half hours in a dark alley on the school grounds. cops said several saw this and did nothing. five guys arrested. they range in age from 15 to 21. and cops say they expect even more arrests. this high school has had trouble with on-campus violence. and one question obviously, with that said, shouldn't someone have been outside patrolling, outside the dance on a friday night? we take your phone calls as always, 1-877-tell-hln. joining us to talk about this, charles ramsey, school board member. been at the school since 1993 and has two daughters in the school district. and also with us, our psychologist wendy walsh. charles, let me start with you. let's hit on that first point, i believe you already talked about that. >> yes, i have.

>> when any of us were high school, outside the dances oftentimes it is trouble. shouldn't someone have been patrolling out there? isn't that policy, or not? >> mike, first i want to send out my thoughts and prayers to the victim and her family for this just disgusting and despicable act. it was barbaric. and to respond to your question, i think absolutely, we have to acknowledge and recognize that there needed to be strategies and practices in place to ensure that this type of crime couldn't have happened. or shouldn't have happened. what we do know, and what we are going to do is continue to have a conversation with our classmates, with our community, and hopefully across this country about what we need to do to prevent these kind of acts from happening to young women, and to others. it's not fair. it's not something that we can condone. and it's something that we have to address.

because it's becoming a situation that's gotten out of control. >> yeah. were there procedures or policies in place where someone should have been patrolling and didn't? >> well, those facts will come out. but the obvious reality is that, yes, we should have individuals overseeing the entire campus. that's why we have four police officers there. that's why we had two supervisors. i'm not going to sit here and deny that we should have had more transparency in terms of making sure that people canv canvassed the campus. >> people across the country heart broken when they hear the details of this. key in michigan, go ahead. >> caller: my comment is this. when kids do crimes, they get a slap on the wrist and go home. nobody's taking what our children are doing very, very seriously. and it's getting out of hand. because now the children have no respect for themselves.

they don't have respect for others. or those in authority. they take away the power from the school and they're taking away the rights of parents to discipline their children. i think this all started, all of this stuff is starting because we can't control our children. >> you make a good point, key. let's bring in wendy walsh on that. wendy, that's on a grand scale when we see this, that's what people wonder, how have we gotten to this point where we have a 15-year-old possibly involved in a brutalizing a 15-year-old. what are your thoughts, wendy? >> well, what we saw last night was classic bystander effect, right? the bigger group of people watching, the less chance that someone's going to call 911. that's just a psychological phenomenon that has gone on since 1964 when poor kitty was killed in queens, noerk. up to 38 people watched that and heard her screams and nobody called. so that's the event. but this woman is talking about something else, mike. she's talking about a morm

compass in america. as parents, we are trying to find out who's doing the moral teaching. because we're seeing religion on the decline, organized religion on the decline. more people in america now say they're spiritual than religion. religion often figured as god as a big cop in the sky. how do we instill healthy remorse, guilt, compassion and empathy in our young people. >> we're going to take a quick break. that's it, that's what gets us. how can someone watch this and not make even the anonymous 911 call. we'll continue this conversation. there will be a forum tonight. we'll ask charles who's going to be there, what they hope to get out of that, and we'll take your calls as well, your thoughts, your observations. you know the number, 1-877-tell-hln.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we're continuing our conversation as we try to come to grips with the fact a 15-year-old girl was gang raped and beaten for two and a half hours. this is outside of a homecoming dance. richmond, california. we're taking your calls, your observations, your thoughts on how we've come to this place, 1-877-tell-hln is the phone number. we charles ramsey, school board member. kids at the school. also with us, wendy walsh, our psychologist. charles, you're having a forum tonight. who's going to be there, and what do you hope to get out of it? >> we're not going to stand idly

by and continue to let these kind of events take place in our community. so what we're going to have tonight is a forum. to have a community conversation about next steps. not just on the enforcement arm, but on the education arm. we want to make sure that we instill in young people different values. and it is about the moral compass. it is about being in a situation that just stands idly by and observes the brutal rape of a 15-year-old young woman. she didn't deserve that. >> no. >> and our community needs to understand, and this country needs to understand that attitudes about women, attitudes about power, attitudes about anger need to be addressed and handled in a different way. >> exactly. >> and this was inappropriate behavior. and we we, along with the superintendent of the schools, we're the fourth largest school district here in northern california. we're going to make sure that we send out the message, loud and clear, and i want to thank you, mike, for having me on today, to be able to have this conversation. >> yeah, charles. we have to talk about this.

>> we have to tackle this issue. and it has to start in the neighborhood. it has to start in the faith community. it has to start in the living room, in the dining room, around the kitchen table. it has to start in the classroom. it has to be spoken every minute of every day that women cannot be treated like this and young girls. >> wendy, is it good to show our kids this story? we're going to leave out the graphic nature of it. but to talk about a 15-year-old getting attacked and no one does anything. can our kids learn from hearing about this brutality? >> i'm a big believer when it's age appropriate, in other words, not small, small children, certainly not under the age of 8 or 7 or something, but as they get older, and they're developing their own moral identity, these kinds of lessons can be helpful, especially if they're explained by a parent who also helps educate the children what their moral thinking is. you know, the woman caller earlier who said they've taken out paddling, not allowed corporal punishment on our kids. hitting our kids is not the way to shape their behavior.

it's by being good people, going out of our way. the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. the kids are going to eventually turn out how we live our lives. >> i agree with that, mike. >> we don't want our kids to be broken when they walk by something like this. what we're hearing, some who heard about it and wanted to join in. which is more appalling. we've got about 30 seconds, charles. go ahead. >> there has to be accountability. but at the same time, we have to look at processes and procedures that are going to move us forward as a community to be able to be successful. i have two young daughters, adrienne and monica, and i want them to go to school knowing they will be safe. i want to thank you. we need to have a larger conversation about this. >> charles, wendy, we appreciate it. thanks, guys. coming up, former alabama judge accused of spanking inmates. we'll tell you what happened in that case, coming up.

welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we're continuing our conversation about a judge in alabama, herman thomas, he was accused of horrific crimes. the charges, sex abuse, second-degree assault, attempted sodomy. inmates claim the judge would check them out of jail, and then, among other things, spank them, perform sex acts. those are some of the charges. he's been acquitted. going over this case with his attorney, bob clark. also with us, nicole, criminal defense attorney. bob, when you look at this. correct me if i go wrong here. from what i gather, one of the alleged victims, and if the kids are in the room, parents, firefighter gi me, semen was found in the xacarpet in the

judge's office. >> that's correct. >> help us out with that. >> it's very simple. the inmate -- there was two inmates, i don't need to name them, but there were two inmates that say semen was in the carpet, in a room that was adjacent to the judge's suite. anyhow, one of them said he had gone in there, this is his testimony, this is what he told the fbi when they were threatening him, that he went in and masturbated while judge thomas wasn't in the room. and the other one whose dna was found in the same carpet area, said that he had never been in that room, and he didn't know how it got there. so if he don't know how it got there, i damn sure don't know how it got there. >> nicole, that had to be a huge, huge blow against the prosecution, right? >> absolutely. the problem in this case is i don't think that the prosecution's witnesses even knew what the prosecution's case was.

and they're just going to have to come to terms with the fact that all of these facts have been laid out there, and the jurors heard the case and the jurors decided to acquit this man. they've gotten their pound of flesh, they've dragged his name through the mud and now the case is concluded. >> cornell use is writing, how do you come back from that. he's branded for the rest of his life. bob, i'll start with you. he's your client. do you expect him to resume his duties as judge? what does he have to go through to get to that place again, or is that part of his career done? >> that part of his career is over. he resigned -- or didn't resign, he retired from the bench, had enough time to go ahead and retired. he went ahead and retired in hopes that things would -- mobile has been a racially divided city for years. we have a black mayor down there, sam jones, an excellent, excellent mayor. we've all tried, at least a lot of us have tried to put racism behind us and move forward.

but now that it's over, it's time to do that. as nicole said, this case is over. you can shoot the gun in the air and call the dogs. the hunt's over. i don't know why they keep dragging it out. i don't mind what three jurors say. a juror cannot impeach his own verdict. if that's his verdict then, that's his verdict until he's dead. >> bob, nicole, appreciate it, guys. >> thank you. we'll get you updated on the northwest pilots again, flew past their destination, minneapolis. claimed they were on the laptop. some thought they were snoozing. the licenses were revoked. is that enough punishment? where does this stand? what's next in the investigation? taking your calls, 1-877-tell-hln.

we continue to follow this one. dealing with dris tractd drivers on the road. that's scary enough. well, now we have to worry about distracted pilots at 30,000 feet? two pilots had licenses revoked for goofing off on their laptops in the cockpit. at least that's their story. the faa, are they buying it? richelle carey is here with more as we continue to follow this one. got some folks rattled. >> the pilots claim that they were working on their laptops. i mean, just engrossed in something clearly and they lost track of time. and they overshot the runway at

the minneapolis airport by 150 miles. so clearly they've got some explaining to do. authorities think, they think the pilots fell asleep. so this is the letter they fired off. this is what the faa says. you engaged in conduct that puts your passengers and your crew in serious jeopardy. northwest flight 188 was not in communication with controllers, or the airline dispatchers. this is the best part. listen to this, mike. while you were on a frolic of your own, this is a total -- yes, frolic. this is a total dereliction and disregard for your duties. effective immediately these pilots' licenses have been revoked. they have ten days to appeal. frolic, mike, frolic. >> is part of the frolic the snooze? do you get it that -- does the faa flat out say you were snoozing? >> yes. >> back here on the table. there it is. we'll put a blanket over it. they're snoozing. sorry.

couldn't resist. thank you, by the way, as we get the table set for everybody on this one. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining us to talk about it, private pilot, aviation attorney, justin green's with us. also with us, civil law attorney. there's nicole with us as well. and john bowman. nicole jumping in there. jus tip, i'll start with you. everyone wants to know, what are you thinking, laptops or the snooze? justin, from what you're seeing and the details, what do you think? >> i think the snooze is a much more likely scenario. more believable. and actually, i really don't think it makes a difference. either they're sleeping, which is pretty bad, but as humans, you can understand that someone might fall asleep. if they're actually on the laptops for over an hour, one pilot giving the other pilot a course, and they're ignoring communications that they actually hear, and they're flying past their destination, i think that that scenario may be even more scary than the fact that they fell asleep. >> let me pick up on one of your

original points. does it matter? either way, they were distracted. i think we're a little more alarmed if they're sleeping. but how does it matter when you're doling out punishment and what their future holds? >> it doesn't matter at all. the only issue is, if they're tired, as an aviation safety person and somebody who lit gates these cases on behalf of victims of aviation disasters, i'm going to be looking at the fatigue program that the airline has. if they're actually doing a little course, which they're saying they're doing, and by the way, it's going to be pretty easy for investigators to tell whether one pilot gave the other pilot an hour course during the flight. because you just put them in two different rooms and ask them about the course that they -- that was given. and if their story matches up, maybe they actually did what they're saying they were doing. but it doesn't matter. either case, gross dereliction of duty. rickless behavior, endangerment of the flight. i think the faa's actions are

commendable. >> john bowman, civil law attorney. what recourse the pilots have? do you expect them to appeal? what's next for them? >> i expect them to appeal. edon't know they'll get anywhere with it. in essence, they're making an example of them, and they should be made an example of. this is something they shouldn't have done. whether they were sleeping or whether they gotten tlaled in their discussion. and basically forgot to land the airplane. that's what they're there to do. from a criminal perspective, i don't see, unless there's a criminal statute that specifically they can point to, you can't make up criminal statutes afterwards, they have to look at that. from a civil point of view, could the passengers in fact sue the airline, sue the pilots? i'm sure there's faa regulations that would prevent that. and i'm sure that when they signed -- when they bought the ticket, there's enough red ink, or fine -- you know, fine print that protects the airlines as well as the pilots.

keeps them indemnified, holds them harmless. >> got you. justin, when people look at this, there's talks of what we need now, cameras in the cockpit? are we at that point this story? >> after the disaster in buffalo, there was talk about using the cockpit voice recorders not only to -- for use in accident investigation, but also to be monitoring the pilots. and the ntsb and the pilots union are against that. because they're saying, look, the pilots are deserving some privacy in the cockpit. and really, we don't want to make the use of video or the use of cockpit voice recorders as kind of a monitoring tool. we want to preserve it only as a crash investigation tool. and just to respond to the point about lawsuits, i believe if the victims -- if the passengers had been injured in this case, they would have a very solid lawsuit, regardless of any disclaimers on

their tickets. the thing is, i don't think the passengers had injuries, because they didn't even know what the pilots were doing. >> exactly. real quick, john, about cameras, monitoring, what's going on in the cockpit, do you think that will fly legally? >> it's after the fact. the point of the matter is, you need to prevent this from happening in the first place. that's somehow getting in touch with the pilots and wake them up. if it means waking them up through some buzzer, vibrator, wake them up. if it means they're distracted, they lost track of time, wake them up. this is an after-the-fact discussion. what happened. i would rather, and that's what my practice is all about, prevent it from happening in the first place. 90 minutes they were out of touch. after 9/11, how could you have a pilot out of touch for 90 minutes where you've got airplanes ready to -- federal airplanes ready to intercept them. that's egregious. that's out of control. >> it is. i think the only argument for the camera to help prevent something like this happening again, someone would see, hey,

john and sue, they're snoozing. wake them up. >> but how would you wake them up? >> that's a good point. >> there's 13 different communications. there were red lights. i mean, you would have to tell the flight attendants, could you make sure you contact the pilots 20 minutes before you land so we can make sure they're not distracted or not sleeping? it's out of control. >> guys, we appreciate it. justin, john, thanks again. now this. is this how you treat a rape victim? a woman says she was drugged, raped, left on the side of the road. her doctor prescribes anti-hiv drugs. so her health insurance drops her.

something's wrong when a crime victim loses her health

insurance, punished because she was raped. christina turner says two men at a ft. lauderdale bar slipped her a drug in her drink. the next thing she knew she's lying on the side of the road. her doctor had prescribed her a month's worth of anti-hiv medicine. but then her insurance dropped her. she tried other companies, but they apparently saw the hiv meds, wouldn't touch her. that's how you treat a rape victim? our sister network cnn first got word of her story. we wanted to dig deeper on this one as we call out wrong when we see it. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln's the number. joining us to talk about it, the victim in this, christina turner. she's also a health insurance agent. also joining us, chip merlynn, insurance litigator in tampa. christina, let's start with you. again, quite a story to tell. but first off, that was a life-altering event. how are you doing? this is seven years later now? >> i'm actually doing very well now. thank you so much. because of the actual therapy

that i went through, and the anti-depressants that i needed, and the preventive hiv medication, i'm doing very, very well. i'm also a rape counselor now trying to help other victims so that this doesn't happen to them. >> we applaud you for that. >> thank you. >> to term what you did, counsel and comfort others, kudos to you on that front. >> thank you. >> let's get to -- we don't want to make you relive that day. but let's pick it up after the fact. at the time, your doctor prescribes, is it anti-hiv medications? >> that's correct. for one month. because there was no way to tell if the attacker wore a condom because it was a drug rape. >> what happened with the insurance company? you're a health insurance agent yourself. >> absolutely. >> you think you're fine, right? >> absolutely. i'm an independent contractor, so i have to go through an individual carrier. i was with my carrier for a while. the next thing i know they dropped my coverage. i had submitted my anti-hiv

medications for reimbursement because i was under a ppo, so i had to pay for them out of pocket. once i submitted it, the rape happened in november. i submitted it in december. and i paid my premiums on time, the first of every month, january i paid, february i paid, mid-march i get a termination notice stating that my coverage had lapsed for nonpayment of premium. to this day, those two checks have never been cashed. and so i went to the head of the company. i went all the way up to the head of the company trying to explain to these strangers, after being through this traumatic event, i had to explain to strangers that i didn't even know, that i was raped and what was going on. and, you know, this is what's happening to me right now, that i don't actually have aids. but they said because the coverage was already terminated, that i in fact had to go two to three years of testing, hiv-free, and because i was in therapy and on antidepressants,

i would be uninsurable. so i went to the head of the company. they basically said sorry this happened. if you can't show that your checks were cashed, which is the last thing on my mind is balancing my checkbook at this time. because i'm an independent contractor, and i meet strangers every day. >> and you didn't do anything different with your payment, let's get out there. >> i did nothing different with my payment. the fact that i received my january and my february payment, why didn't i get my 30-day notice of cancellation. the next thing i saw was a 60-day notice. once it's past 60 days on coverage you cannot be reinstated, unless you go through the pre-qualifying medical. which i did not meet the requirements at that time. then being an agent, i know how the health insurance industry works. at that point i contacted many, many different companies that i dealt with, and depending on the company i spoke with, i presented it as a hypothetical. because if you submit a paper application and get denied, it's a black mark on you. because the companies later can

say, have you ever been denied before. and you have to explain. and they can rate you or decline you. so i submitted it. i called underwriters with the hypothetical question, this is what i have. i have a rape victim on anti-hiv medications for a month and now she's in counseling and antidepressants to try and get through this. and they said depending on the company once again two to three years, hiv-free and she has to be out of counseling and not on anti-depressants before we will take her. so i was revictimized again. and not only -- >> many times -- having to retell the story, as well. >> and then taking my livelihood away because i was a health insurance agent. >> how can an insurance company do this? >> you know, mike. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out it's a lot more profitable to take people's premiums and not pay when the claims come in or cancel them when you have this problem. this has been going on in this country for a long time. there have been congressional studies that have showed half of

the major health insurance companies use incidents of domestic violence to deny coverage or get out of having coverage for these poor victims. and what she's describing is going on all the time, many times these people are placed into getting group coverage and then they have to stay with one employer during that period of time just so they have the benefits. >> yeah. and because, you know, from your vantage point, christine, on that loophole with the payment, that was the in to get you out, right? >> that's exactly right. and what they told me was they were very sorry for my situation, but if i couldn't prove that i sent it certified mail or given them proof of the cashed check, there's nothing they could do for me. >> okay, guys. let's take a quick break. want to hear from you, your thoughts, your comments. has it happened to you? number 1-877-tell-hln.

tonight, an issues "issues" special presentation. "issues" goes deep inside america's criminal justice system. we have a horrific crime problem in this country. but is our criminal justice system fixing it? or making it worse? every night we cover crimes that rip families apart. tonight, we're flipping the script and focusing on the criminals. have our prisons become criminal factories? america imprisons people more than any other country on earth. are we locking up people for the wrong reasons? drug offenders doing hard crime behind bars while dangerous sexual predators are being released.

and we're going to talk to a woman who dedicated her life to reversing the cycle. she fights to keep a young man from becoming another statistic. was she successful? it's a story you'll only see here on "issues." plus, is there a two-tier justice system in this country. one for the rich and famous, the other for the poor and powerless? we'll look at outrageous celebrity cases and examine whether they got special treatment. an "issues" special presentation starts now. tonight, a special "issues" investigation exposing the heart-breaking and mind boggling reality behind our country's very broken system of justice. we will investigate america's horrific epidemic of crime and ask, do our punishments really fit those crimes? sex offenders and violent sickos paroled and slipping through the crack while petty criminals and non-violent drug offenders are often sent to the slammer for years. by the end of this hour, i

promise you, you will be asking yourself if our prisons are nothing more than criminal factories. turning out ever more hardened criminals, have america's prisons become some sort of university of crime? if you're outraged, that's your cue to take a stand. we begin with raw emotion. a first-person story, one that is very pain. for my very special guest. li lisa. a former tv producer is determined to be part of the solution. about 17 years ago, lisa became a big sister of sorts to a kid from a broken home. to protect his identity, we're calling him cory. cory had a dysfunctional upbringing in the projects. despite lisa's best efforts to prevent cory from becoming another statistic, he could not outrun the odds or avoid the predictable dilemmas that he encountered. he's bounced from county jails and now in the clutches of the hard core prison system. we'll find out in just a moment

why. and is he a criminal? lisa says no, he's not. why is he in prison? but first i want to share a few passages from a gut wrenching letter. she sent to a judge pleading for compassion for this young man. as a child cory had a "diminished capacity to learn, retain, and connect the dots between actions and consequences." lisa said he would come to her, hungry, filthy, smelling like urine, he didn't know how to wipe himself. he would cry himself to sleep at night and act out by disobeying me. but as they say, you ain't heard nothing yet. lisa, standby. coming up later. is it possible to break the cycle of violence at incarceration? you will not believe who is getting involved. one celebrity, mark wahlberg we haven't produced a documentary. most don't have such acts on their resume, in fact, some have longer wrap sheets than they do

resumes. we will tackle this double standard of celebrity justice. let's bring in my fantastic expert panel. judge karen mills francis, host of the "judge karen show." and dr. dale archer. tonya acker. but first lisa versacci. i know it's difficult to talk about this story. why did you get involved in the life of this young man named cory when he was 6 years old. and how do you feel about the fact that he's now 24 and right now as we speak in prison? >> well, first off, i'm devastated he's in prison. it's turned my life upside down because i love him very, very much. and i got involved -- it wasn't an intellectual decision, it was just put on my heart right after the los angeles riots to find a little boy to help prevent him from getting into gangs.

and that was the reason to help someone from getting into gangs. give him a little extra love, little bit of guidance. but you know, he's not a criminal. he's wound up in jail anyway. and it just feels like in some communities, there's just no choice for the young men. that's where they're going to go no matter what. >> judge karen mills francis, you have obviously handled hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of cases. is this sort of a metaphor with what's happening in our criminal justice system where if a kid has a misfortune of being born in a poor neighborhood in perhaps a minority neighborhood in the projects with a dysfunctional home, it's almost like this person is on track to end up in the criminal justice system despite best intentions of those who want to help and the child themselves? >> you know, i want to commend lisa for taking this big project on with this child. i, myself was a foster mother.

i ended up with a 12-year-old kid who i met when i was a public defender in the juvenile justice system. the reality is that poverty breeds a lot of crimes. the question becomes that why is it that the majority of people who are behind bars are people who committed non-violent crimes? you know, in 1950, 72% of all people who entered prisons were white males. now 57% of the people who enter prison are black males. yet the percentage of blacks in the population hasn't changed in all of these years. there's a difference in the way that the system treats different crimes. we consider drug crimes for some reason more important than domestic violence, rape -- imagine, if you're arrested with a kilo of cocaine, it carries a 15-year minimum mandatory sentence. there is no minimum mandatory sentence for raping a woman.

there's no minimum mandatory sentence for raping a child. but yet for the simple possession of drugs, regardless of what your past is, you're going to get a mandatory prison sentence. i agree with you, jane. >> well, you've raised very important issues we want to discuss and that's what we're talking about tonight. are the most dangerous of society's criminals slipping through the cracks? while kids like cory, that's what we're calling him, are locked up, destined to become hardened criminals even though he didn't go rob a bank or hold up a seven-eleven. then there's phillip garrido, he was a paroled sex offender, a guy who was convicted of violently kidnapping and raping a woman, originally sentenced to 50 years, half a century. he was let out after 11 years. okay. why did they let him out? oh, they say he was terminated early for responding positively to supervision. he went on to abduct -- >> there are no children around in prison.

>> went on to abduct an 11-year-old child, we all know famous now, jaycee dugard in 1991, allegedly raped her repeatedly, fathered two children with her. so he's allowed to leave and attack again, tonya, but a kid like cory who did not go out to commit a crime ends up being fast tracked into the criminal justice system where his big sister lisa is terrified that he's being taught how to become a hardened criminal. >> of course, he is. of course, he is. there's no other mechanism to do anything else with these people in jail. but let me go back to some of the very good points that the judge made. and part of the reason why you're seeing this epidemic, why you're seeing so many non-violent drug offenders locked up because though are easy convictions to get. and i'm not trying to beat up on prosecutors, but when you look at the fact how success is measured in those offices. they want convictions. it's much easier to lock up somebody for selling some pot,

to lock up -- the guy who has got a third strike who is found with a few joints will be in jail for 25 years to life. phillip garrido's out in 11 years, that's a harder case. i think what we're seeing right now is not just this institutionalization and privatization of the prison system itself, but you're looking at prosecutors who are looking to rack up convictions. and that's why they're going after these cases and not the people who are truly dangerous. and just one really quick point. you know, it's not even just that the violent offenders. we're looking at other kinds of crimes that are routinely ignored. i was recently the victim of financial crime, which was, you know, wasn't a huge case, but i've got to tell you. it has taken me two days to get a detective on the phone. now, if i had somebody who was an alleged drug dealer next to me -- >> if you were rich -- >> if i were rich, that person would be -- he'd already be taken down. if there were a drug dealer next to me or if i reported somebody with a joint who had a -- this would be a third strike, that

guy would be locked up. >> i want to go back to lisa. lisa versace, when your young man was going away, you desperately tried to reach out to the public defenders. tell us about that nightmare. >> well, the public defenders, in their defense, they are so overloaded. and his first sentencing, the woman who was defending him had nine cases the next day in court. they don't barely have time -- >> how many? >> nine. she was going to have nine the next day. they don't barely have time to review the file let alone know who the person is. i went to see her and i was able to tell her his story. he said please go home and write it all down, get it to me by tonight, i will use that in court tomorrow. but if i hadn't been there, he would've received three more years than he received based on just knowing that he was a person. they don't even really know that they're people, they don't know their circumstances. look, they deal with tons of criminals. you know, they're dealing with horrible people. and i'm not here to speak for the criminals.

the criminals need to be punished. but there's an entire population of kids and young men that go in there because they have a.d.h.d., cory has behavioral problems, impulse control because of his upbringing, and this lands him in jail? it's so horrific because once he's in there, now what's going to become of him? >> you're telling it like it is, lisa. and this is what i have seen year in and year out, covering crime. we're going to have more on "broken justice" this special edition of "issues." plus celebrities break the law, but then little to zero time behind bars. how is that possible? is it fair? we're going to take a look at the double standard of justice in the united states of america. but first, what can be done to stop our prisons from becoming criminal factories? we're going to take a look at radical and practical solutions. will any of them work?

we have equipment to protect our inmates, protect our officers. so it's very sophisticated. >> welcome to our special issues investigation, the criminal justice crisis in our country has gone completely haywire. take, for example, the state of arizona. there's that sheriff joe arpio notorious for his controversial publicity stunt. who could fesht his innovative pink underwear prison uniform. the apparent success of that stunt led to pink handcuffs and other pink stuff. funny? i don't think it's funny. i don't think ridiculing and humiliating prisoners is getting us the results we want. i think you're creating a group of very, very angry people who

are probably carrying a huge resentment who are probably going to get out and be very, very angry. and we know what that means. arizona is now facing a huge budget crisis. to make a dent, state officials are going to extremes. they're selling the justice system. that's right. to the highest bidder. they're privatizing arizona's prison. arizona's not alone. in 2000, there were fewer than 100,000 prisoners in private facilities. the number in 2008, over 126,000. this is big business, people. you know, i think it's very dangerous to involve the profit motive in the prison system. because it gives people an incentive to incarcerate more people to make money. lisa versace, you have firsthand experience with this for profit side of the prison system. tell us about it when you tried to interact with the young man who was behind bars. >> well, first of all, they have to pay for everything. they have to buy shampoo, buy stamps, buy their paper. if he's going to write to me, he

phones me, he's got to go through a special company where i have to put $50 on my phone so we can have a handful of conversations. it adds up. but they don't have anything. and then they're like a cash system inside. if you don't have money and no one's helping you out, then you're the dredge of the dredge. they're forced to be in the gangs. having a little money to spend at the store and buy their noodles or their $3 little sausage. this helps them to be a little higher in the hierarchy. but it's like you said earlier to me, it's like institutionalized cruelty. and i'm not speaking for the criminals. criminals need to be punished. i'm talking about kids that wind up in there that have no business being in there. the only purpose is to ruin his life. that is the only purpose for these kids is to ruin their lives. >> dr. dale archer, clinical psychiatrist. we know that a lot of this

dysfunction dysfunctional ty comes from traumatic childhood experiences that are not going to be resolved by locking somebody up, but are going to be resolved by treatment, working through. it's called therapy. if we took some of the money that taxpayers are spending for all of this stuff that we're talking about and put it into therapeutic treatment for these kids at an early age, could we prevent crime as opposed to simply letting these people become hardened criminals and locking them up? >> absolutely. and with kids you basically have three conditions that will be a predictor for those that will go on and possibly end up in prison. number one, attention deficit, number two, bipolar, which is instability, and number three, learning disability. all of these can be evaluated and treated. i think with these kids, they should have a psychiatric evalas mandatory before any type of criminal proceedings are going on. >> tonya, you're a blogger, why

is nobody talking about this? we are just beating our chest all over the place. all over the media about crime, crime, crime. but honestly, violence is pornography if we do not discuss it in the context of solutions. and yet, anybody wants to talk about is lock them up. when we don't really look at the underlying social conditions that if we examine we might be able to prevent some of these crimes. >> that's right, jane. and i think part of the reason that we don't do that is the same reason, you know, why any time you see a politician running for office, the first thing he or she wants to do is celebrate his or her tough on crime credentials and run around waving a gun to show how tough they are. because to the extent that we start talking about underlying issues, then all of a sudden, you know, there's the folks on the other side who are going to say you're being soft, you don't care about justice and you don't care about victims. what we're really seeing now is a system that doesn't look after victims of violent crime, that doesn't look after real victims

but instead, going after people who are really engaged in a lot of victimless crimes. because again, those are easier convictions to get. but it's a lot of sound bites and a lot of political posturing, unfortunately. >> well, listen, i am against crime. i fight crime, i'm not in favor of criminals as lisa said. but judge karen mills francis, i'm in favor of safety. we talk about a war on women, producing criminals and sending them to crime university which is prison is not going to make me any safer. when they come out, they are going to be dangerous. >> but this is a great thing you're doing. see when we talk about criminals like to hear lisa talk about what's going on with cory. a lot of your viewers are going to say, well, big deal. what does he expect? he's in prison. we need to understand the numbers. in 1999, the justice policy institute did a study, there were 1.8 million people in prison. but 1 million of them were there because of non-violent crimes. >> got to leave it right there. we're going to be back in a

moment. keep that thought. we have more on our broken criminal justice system, a special investigation. celebrities, oh, they're always in the news. but isn't there a double system here? a double standard? a two-tiered system. if you're rich, do you get away with it?

welcome back to our special "issues" investigation. our broken system of justice. check out this staggering statistic. according to the bureau of justice statistics, there are about 2,311,000 prisoners in the united states. that works out to more than 1 in 100 adults behind bars. that's right. i'm going to say it again. for every 100 americans, there is at least one person in prison. adding insult to injury. the u.s. now holds the dubious distinction of having the highest documented incarceration rate and highest prison population in the world. i'm going to say it again, more people imprisoned in the u.s.

than any other country. what can we as individuals do to become part of the solution? we're so focussed on crime and punishment, we drop the ball on prevention. lisa versace, you tried to help. what can one person do? >> well, all i did was try to help one person. and i think that, you know, trying to revamp the criminal justice system would be like emptying the ocean. one spoonful at a time. if everyone was able to have a little compassion and help one person. i want to say something what judge karen said there. that, you know, why would people at home care? oh, the person's in prison, what do they expect? that's a really good point. the reason why people at home should care is because maybe you've got a good for nothing who is just a good for nothing. he gets thrown in jail and he gets out and he's a violent criminal and he's going to victimize you or someone in your family. that is why we should care. they're going in when they shouldn't be there. they've got, you know, impulse

control problems, behavioral problems, they make bad decisions. and then they come out, i don't even know what kind of life he's going to have. will he fall pray to what's in there over this next year? or will he be able to come out and make some sort of life for himself? he's young, he's 24. he has his whole life. >> we no longer look at prisons as a place for rehabilitation, we look at it as a place for punishment. but it costs $30,000 a year to house a prisoner. $30,000. that's more than the minimum wage, that's more than if you were making $10 an hour on the job. we can't take that $30,000 and try to help some of these people that are not hardened criminals and leave room for the violent people who should be behind bars for life? >> exactly. >> tanya acker, whatever i see institutionalized cruelty, i always say follow the money. follow the money. somebody is getting very rich off of all of this. >> that's right.

and lisa really hit the nail on the head when you talk about the fact that these inmates really are paying through the nose for everything. and look, you know, again, i think like everybody on this panel. i don't think anybody here is making excuses for people who do bad things. and we do want to see people punished and we want to see justice dealt. you've got to be very suspicious when you see this cycle of easy to prosecute offenders being put -- being incarcerated in private facilities where folks are making a tremendous amount of money. there's something about that -- >> lisa -- >> it doesn't feel right. >> 20 seconds. what did your young man do? i understand he pushed somebody, he was holding his child and pushed his girlfriend? >> yeah, domestic violence -- he and his girlfriend fought, he pushed her, he was holding the child, it becomes a felony, child endangerment. they fought. and nobody got hurt. and he's, you know, then you have someone like chris brown who chokes somebody practically to death and doesn't go to jail.

>> we're going to talk about that in a moment. coming up, a hollywood celebrity shines the spotlight on juvis. xxxxxxxxxxxx

tonight, an "issues" special presentation. we're focusing on the nation's criminal justice system. is there a two-tier system in this country? one for the rich and famous and the other for the poor and powerless. we'll look at some outrageous celebrity cases and examine whether they got special treatment. >> back to our "issues" special investigation. a lot of people are trying to bring awareness to issues involving our criminal justice system. one person is actor and producer mark wahlberg, he was incarcerated as an adult at 16, and he turned that into a

documentary called juvies. >> i'm in here for attempted murder. >> i'm 17 years old. >> i didn't know why -- >> wahlberg's stance is clear, the juvenile system system does not take the time to deal with each case which is a person, an individual, a human being. as an individual and as a result a lot of these kids are wrongly tried as adults they might otherwise be reformed. instead, we're turning them into hardened criminals. back to my panel, and former investigator and director of defend university joins us as well as lisa bloom. but we're going to start with the judge, judge karen. if you were given a pile of money to fix the juvenile justice system, what specifically would you do with that money? >> you know, i ended up being a foster mother because i saw a child 11 or 12 years old who wasn't getting the treatment he

needed in the juvenile justice system, so i became his foster mother so that he could get drug and alcohol treatment, psychological treatment. so if i had the money, i would put that money into the juvenile justice system. if you walked into the detention center, you would cry. children sleeping on the floor, no supervision, they're getting no help. and all we're doing is creating little criminals to go on to the bigger jails. i would see those same children i saw in juvenile hall in adult prison four years later. so i think that we need to start when they're children and give them the help that children need so they can be productive adults. >> we are actually creating a new class in america, a criminal class. and we're creating it. it's not there. we are actually funneling these kids into the criminal class. you know, so many kids are incarcerated for drugs. in fact, the office of juvenile justice and delinquency

prevention says drug cases increased more than any type of offense. yet these kids are not getting what they need most, which is drug treatment. >> -- like this, it's not helping them at all. >> there's no rehabilitation. >> the majority of the lifers here and across the street are youngsters. >> the only solution to a drug addiction problem and i can tell you this as a recovering alcoholic is a 12-step program. addiction does not go away within incarceration. the obama administration recently urged against the prosecution of marijuana patients. does it go far enough? isn't it time to de-criminalize marijuana and use those resources to provide drug treatment? >> absolutely. here in my state of california, 78,000 people were arrested and prosecuted for marijuana crimes last year. you can only imagine the millions of dollars that were expended and who cares? most of us don't care.

we'd like to see it legalized and taxed. when you're thinking about kids. you have a problem, you're bored, you can't sleep, you give them a pill. when they get a little older, not feeling so great, they take some drugs, we lock them up in prison. doesn't make any sense we're giving them one message about prescription drugs, another message about illegal drugs. any time you have an 11-year-old or 12-year-old drug addict, that is the fault of the family or all of us who are giving the kids the wrong messages and no help. and to lock up a child like that, shame on all of us who do that. >> steve, you're kind of representing law enforcement here. and listen, we're all pro-law enforcement. i'm for throwing dangerous criminals like child predators and rapists and murderers in the slammer for good. i think what we need to do is make the penalties and the punishment and the incarceration time for the serious violent offenders longer and stronger. and stop funneling all of these kids who had the mistake of being born in a poor

neighborhood or minority neighborhood and are growing up in the projects and they end up getting sort of funneled into the criminal justice system for crimes that are really not violent crimes. these are kids making mistakes who have impulse control, steve. >> jane, i think that i agree with lisa, i agree with you that we should de-criminalize marijuana and let officers, law enforcement have their resources dedicated to more serious crimes. in most states across the country, the mere possession of marijuana is the equivalent of a speeding ticket. take a police officer off the road for two hours to process such a minute violation is a waste of our services and good efforts. >> today, all states allow certain juveniles to be tried in criminal court or face adult sanctions. >> mm-hmm. >> all the kids you see here in orange are being prosecuted as adults. today, over 200,000 kids are sent through the adult court system each year. >> this documentary was released in 2004. judge karen, is it getting

worse? it seems to me that now with 1 out of every 100 americans incarcerated in one shape or form that we are literally entering this sort of brave new world where an entire segment of the population is almost pre-destined to be tracked in the criminal justice system. >> i absolutely agree with you. that same justice department report i referred to earlier. think about this, jane. india has four times the population of the united states. yet, we have five times as many people in prison as they do. what does that tell you? it has become a business. and when you can take a 14-year-old or a 15-year-old and prosecute that child who can't do anything else as an adult, but he can go or she can go and sleep and live with a bunch of hardened criminals, that's a problem.

i think it has become a business. as a business. >> when it comes to juveniles, when it comes to juveniles, we are the harshest system in the world in terms of incarcerating our own children. we are the only civilization that sends children to prison for life without the possibility of parole. the rest of the world combined -- that's according to amnesty international, we throw away the lives of our own children, the most rehabilitatable group of people, we just throw them away, 13 and 14, many of them will never see the light of day again. they're in prison for the rest of their lives. that's another shame, i think. >> there's a vicious cycle here. and part of the vicious cycle is when these kids get out, they've got a scarlet letter around their neck that says that they've been incarcerated so nobody wants to touch them. nobody wants to hire them. nobody wants to interact with them. so the only solution they have in many cases is to engage in criminality to support themselves and then they're rearrested. it's a vicious cycle, clearly.

>> yeah, in law enforcement we see early intervention as a primary -- as a primary focus to get them help. and without the early intervention, i think that they will get lost in the system. once they're in the system, i understand the job of a police officer and law enforcement is to arrest you and have you go before the criminal justice system for the crimes that you've done. we need early intervention in the schools, during the process from the times they're arrested until they are released back or returned back fully into society. >> you know, studies show that many of these young kids simply have behavioral problems. they have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, impulse control problems, which leads them to make bad decisions. the way you correct that is not by locking them up in an institution where they get to hang out with other kids who are making very bad decisions. the answer, i believe, judge karen mills, if i had all of the money in the world, i would really revamp the educational system. the educational system in america was supposed to be the

great equalizer where anybody could really sort of even the playing field and get a fresh start. and it's not that anymore. >> jane, it feels like we all want to press the easy button. everything is easy now. we don't have to go shopping anymore, we can do it all online, we can do everything on the computer. we don't have to work at anything. and it seems like we don't even have to be parents anymore. there's tvs, video games, there's all kinds of different things you can do to help you raise your child so you don't have to be a parent. it starts in the home, starts in the community, starts in the school, but it's got to be about us caring again. and not saying, oh, my god, what went wrong? it started at birth. >> but there's a vicious cycle here, because a lot of the kids that were getting involved with this criminal justice system are then coming out and there is a lack of awareness about birth control and pregnancy

prevention. there's a cultural stigma against using condoms, even, and they're also having kids, which is another part of the problem. kids having kids. everybody, stay right where you are. coming up, we're going to take a look at the unequal scales of justice. the same misfortune keeps celebrities out of trouble.

welcome back to a special "issues" investigation. we're shining a light on our nation's broken justice system. it is a two-tiered system. a double standard. one set of rules and outcomes for the poor, another for the rich and famous. if you've got money, you get to hire a legal dream team to get you out of whatever trouble you're in. >> we the jury in the action

find the defendant not guilty of the crime of murder in violation of penal code. >> o.j. simpson, lindsay lohan, robert blake, just a few of the celebrities who many believe benefitted from a judicial double standard. think they would have beaten the charges against them if they only had a public defender fighting for them? we know the answer to that. both the price and the pace of justice in our countries favor those with power and money. how do we change that? how do we level the playing field? my panel, fabulous panel back to debate it. lisa bloom, you and i have both had the experience of going to court early to cover a celebrity case. you get there early and i'm always astounded at how fast the public defenders are bing, bing, bing -- knocking one defendant after the other through a system, talking a language they don't understand, i can barely keep track and sentenced one

after the other, and then the celebrity comes in and it's slow. >> that's very true, jane. and it's true for celebrities and true for anybody who has got money. unfortunately in our system if you've got money, not only get to hire the finest attorneys, but expert witnesses. and the public defenders are underpaid, overworked, fighting for justice for people who are poor, who nobody cares about. they're doing their best, but we don't give them enough money to put on much of a defense. did you know, jane, that the u.s. supreme court has said that it is not, not ineffective counsel if your attorney falls asleep at counsel table, if your attorney is drunk during trial, that's okay. that's okay if your attorney does that and if you're poor, that's the kind of attorney that sometimes you're going to get. >> and i agree, i don't think that i want to blame public defenders for treating their clients as a number when they're

handed 20 or 30 cases and they've got to handle them all. how else are they going to treat them? we need more public defenders, obviously. but there's sort of an institutionalized bias on that because that's viewed on being soft on crime. right, that's soft on crime if we provide more public defenders. >> i remember when i became a public defender, there was an article that people rated the jobs they hated the most, number two was public defenders. a lot of people don't think a whole lot about the public defender because they think they're somehow coddling criminals. but if you're a public defender and an attorney in that office every day, at least in the public defender's office here in miami, you have 95 to 100 cases on your calendar every day. it's not nine or ten cases, 75, 95, 100 cases a day. i think, though, when we talk about money and justice, it's true of life period. you've got money, you're going

to live in a better neighborhood. if you've got -- >> wait a second, though. there's a big difference between those nuances of one's lifestyle and going to prison. i have gone to prison as i'm sure all of you have, i've gone to do an interview and i have to tell you the clokloster phobia the horror. we're talking about locking people up and putting them behind bars. chris brown was the boy next door before he pummelled his famous girlfriend rihanna last february. the police report says brown threatened to kill her as he slammed her around inside a car. but thanks to attorney to the stars mark geragos, brown got a very sweet plea deal, no prison time, just community service, domestic violence counseling, and probation. now contrast that, not serving one day in jail. lisa bloom, with the experience that we were talking about earlier of this young man who

had the misfortune of being born poor in a minority neighborhood, fast tracked into the system, he's now in prison doing hard time for pushing his girlfriend. >> well, unfortunately, a lot of the first-time offenders in domestic violence cases here in los angeles don't get any prison time. and i think that's a crying shame. i think chris brown should've gotten prison time, i think everybody who punches their girlfriend in the face, chokes her, bites her, that's what he's accused of doing, should go to prison. certainly you get a break when you're a celebrity, celebrity attorney, that celebrity attorney can get in there and negotiate, negotiate, negotiate, negotiate and keep fighting it until finally the district attorney says, okay, all right, let me be done with this case. i have so many other ones. i think celebrities do get a break generally. in this case, most offenders don't get prison the first time around. >> my favorite example is lindsay lohan. her legal problems really highlight these celebrity double standards of justice which also applies to the rich. the actress arrested for dui in

2007 after a truly bizarre high-speed chase through malibu. according to three men who were with her that night, lohan jumped into the driver's seat of an suv not her own to chase down her assistant's mom. she drove over someone's foot as she tore out of the parking lot. she allegedly reached speeds of 100 miles an hour. at one point she allegedly told the guys "i cannot get into trouble. i'm a celebrity, i can do whatever the blank i want." you know what? she was right. she could've faced a laundry list of charges, felony charges, like carjacking, kidnapping, and assault with deadly weapon. but in the end, lindsay was charged for the cocaine cops say they found in her pocket. she ended up serving 84 minutes in jail. steve, had she been a minority young male from the inner city, wouldn't she have faced a whole slew of charges and ended up undoubtedly doing hard time?

>> i think that she would've been treated differently. i think that she should've gotten time. but when we look at cases like this with celebrities, jane, we have to look at jurisdictions by jurisdiction, agency by at juri by jurisdiction, judge by judge and system by system. look at plaxico. they wouldn't cut him a break and sent him to jail for two years, no questions. >> a black male. >> if i had the power to do anything about all of this, here is what i would do. i was talking about the educational system. i would start in early grades with therapy. group therapy. i have benefited from the 12-step process. i know the power of sharing and talking about your emotions. i would encourage 12-step therapeutic counseling with sharing in the public schools so the kids get to deal with their emotions so they don't have to act on them. i would teach peaceful,

nonviolent conflict resolution, i would teach anger management before their sentence, before their punch, before they hit.

welcome back to this special edition of "issues." a special investigation exposing the countless problems of our broken system. celebrities don't agree it's broken. they have the money to get out of it when they do something wrong. back to my panel. lisa bloom, i was talking about teaching to kids who are not getting the kind of structure they need. the gind of guidance and boundaries, maybe the educational system needs to be revamped to teach kids more

basic skills before they go ahead and teach them history and all these other things they are not going to have the chance to put into use if they are behind bars because they have no impulse control. >> jane, it's so important what you are talking about. it's prevention. someone committed the crime, let's throw the book at them. we can rant and rave. prevention takes a lot of work on the ground by people not recognized. i say, certainly, any young person needs to get rehi billation and counseling and an offender getting out, nine out of ten, need to get counseling. do you realize people don't get counseling in prison? they get out of prison, generally worse than when they went in. they are among us. if you don't care about the offender, you should care about the safety of the rest of us. they need to learn new ways of

doing things. we have to give them the services in prison, job training when they get out, follow them and help them so they don't reoffend. >> one of the reasons we are doing this is because i want to pull my hair out in tufts when nobody is talking about this. deep pockets. let's take robert, he was acquitted. the real estate mogul was one of the wealthiest people in america when he was accused of killing his neighbor, he chopped up his body, loaded them in garbage bags. but the high-priced legal team convinced the jury it was self-defense and he was dismissed despite his confession. even he was surprised by that. when i see an example like that, then an example of a kid who grew up in the projects in a broken home pushes his

girlfriend and does hard time, i get angry. >> so do i. the courtroom is the stage. whoever puts on the best act is the winner in this case. >> we have to do something about it, though. judge karen mills, i am not talking about this because i'm soft on crime. i'm tough on crime. >> i know. >> when i cover it day in, day out, month in, month out and we are not talking solutions, i think there's a pornography of violence if we are approaching it as a curiosity and form of entertainment. it has to be part of the solution. >> jane, it came up last week we talked about the fact that 2300 women and children go missing every day. we can't find these people. there are pedophiles and serial murderers out there all the time. why aren't they the ones in prison.

exactly. i think we have ended on a fabulous note. thank you, fabulous panel for joining us tonight. a special presentation of "issues."