a charter bus crashes and flipd over on its way to a college football game. who was on it and what authorities are saying about this accident. a tanker is no longer leaking oil but the problems are far from over. plus, no one likes to sit neck to a screaming child on a plane but one airline decided to do something about it. why it is now apologizing. and overturning on

interstate 75. some 39 moore house college students were on the bus. several were taken. we did have one that was trapped on a bus for a period of time that we considered critical. we downgraded that patient to a non-critical patient. the bus ended up on its side in a ditch. we will bring you more on the story as it develops. >> suspected rapist and killer is behind bars. the 50-year-old had been on the run. but woio says someone saw him walking on the street and called authorities. he was taken into custody without ins tent.

police wept to arrest him at his home. he was not there but police say they found two decomposing bodies and a freshly dug grave in the basement with another body. police searched the house and they found three more bodies. people who live if the neighborhood are worried about who was in his home. >> i pray it is not my cousin and if it is i am sorry. >> sowell served years for a rape conviction. two canadians wanted by the fbi have been arrested. they were taken into custody today in ontario. the two were allegedly members of a mosque in detroit. the leader of the mosque had extreme anti-government views and encouraged followers to commit violence. he wanted to create an islamic state.

he died in a shootout on wednesday. the agency says he resisted arrest inside a warehouse and fired a gun. the mosque denies he was part of a radical group. >> a tanker has stopped leaking oil into san francisco bay. the leak started yesterday during a fuel transer if. >> rather than trying to estimate exactly what it was, we responded as though it were a big spill. and we mobilized irrespective of the reporting party. we don't pay too much attention to initial volume. it just doesn't work. initial volumes are never correct. there may have been a lower report it did not affect the way we responded. >> officials are telling people

not to swim in the pay and avoid local beaches. it looks like the oil spill was caused by a mechanic a.m. failure. >> officials say they will try to reopen the bay bridge on monday but they cannot farn tee that will happen. >> the time projections that have been given are just estimates on what dimp individual things would take if they worked exactly the way they were supposed to. the thing that is taking time right now is the fit up of the steel. what we are focussing on is making sure that the rods are in the exact position we want them to be in. >> the bridge was closed after three steel pieces fell off in the middle of rush hour. the body of a navy pilot has been found in waters off the coast of texas. the search is still on for the

second pilot when that training plane disappeared. >> president obama is getting more advice as he considers the neck move in afghanistan. he met with the joint chiefs of staff and others yesterday. this comes in the deadliest month yet. each branch of the military got a chance to explain the impact of sending more troops. the army and marine corps expressed that it would be difficult to give promised time at home with their families. the presidential runoff in afghanistan is in jeopardy. the man challenging car r -- karzai. but reps of both are engaging in

11th hour fauks today. this is between the two. >> the daughter of a civil rights lenld has now taken over the reigns of an organization her father stopped. ber nis king is the new leader. she is the first woman ever to hold that post. her father martin luther founded. he served as its first president until his assassination. the main challenge will be to give the organization a sense of mission. here is good news. most of you can take advantage of an extra hour's sleep before you have to wake up in the morn don't forget to fall back. for the places that observe it, daylight savings time returns

march 13. what price would you pay to have the olympic torch in your town.

the swine flu is now considered widespread in all but two states. more vaccine is becoming available to combat the virus and the supply is closer to meeting the demand. >> i know how frustrating it is to stand in line for hours and maybe not get what you came for in the first place. that is infuriateing. we want to remind people that there are some people who will likely get very ill. and could potentially die who are in much more priority sitwaegss. children with underlying health conditions. pregnant women. we need them to get to the front of the line. >> there are over 26 million doses in the u.s.

10 million more than compared to a week ago. >> three american -- their families say swiss diplomats spent about 40 minutes. >> the u.s. dupt have diplomatic relations with them. the hikers seemed nervous and scared but in good health. they crossed iran's border three months ago. their families say they did it by mistake. two lawsuits have been filed following the sweat possibility. a woman who is badly hurt is also suing. both accused the retreat leader and the owners of the lodge of negligence and fraud. the owner says there is nothing wrong with the lodge itself. an attorney for ray has not

commented on the suits. >> anna nicole smith's former boyfriend and two doctors are going on trial. they are accused of conspireing to illegally give her controlled substances and supplying drugs to an addict. smith died of an accidental overdose in february, twech. southwest airlines is saying its sorry for kicking a mom and toddler off the flight. the boy screams of go plane go and i want daddy drowned out the preflight safety announcement. the boy's mother was confident the boy would have behaved. southwest called, apologized and offered her a $300 travel voucher. over the next few months, the torch will be traveling

across canada. it cost $50,000 for the torch to swing through. there will be a skater and a surfer. >> i will be laying on my board. paddling. i will grab the torch and keep riding the rest of the way like this. >> the torch run may end up being the biggest party the town has ever seen. they will make 28,000 miles before the opening ceremony in vancouver. for years we have heard doctors warn about the dangers of not getting enough sleep. here is something to keep in mind as we turn our clocks back tonight. getting too much shut oult koultd have draw backs as well. extra sleep every once in a while dun have serious risks. but

but. it could be cutting into your life span. if you sleep less than five or more than ten you increase your chances of dying at a younger age. a soldier could not believe the welcome he had waiting. ♪ i'm proud to be an american ♪ >> what they did before the soldier came home. ♪ god blesds the usa ♪

thursday up friday down. way down. the stock markets got clobbered yesterday with the dow jones industrial average losing nearly 250 points. that drop negated thursday's big rally and then some. news helped drag the markets down. since topping out, the s&p has dropped more than five and a

half percent. president obama says the u.s. economy is moving in the right direction. there are fresh signs of economic growth and noted that the stimulus package created or saved a million jobs. more needs to be done to create new jobs. >> economic growth is no. heartbreaking for the men and women who suddenly find themselves out of work but we will not create the jobs we need unless the -- >> they disagree that the stimulus package has been a success. in the gop's weekly aggress, republicans say they have made a strong case for another direction with the economy and health care. >> it was our obligation to explain to the american people how we would do things better. and on the stimulus budget

energy bill and health care we have done exactly that. only republicans have offered solutions to lower health care costs and make it easier to obtain quality coverage without imposing a massive burden on the american people. >> he called the democratic plan pages of bureaucracy. the white house is now releasing the names of people who pay a visit. it was a campaign promise by barack obama to make those lists public. around 100,000 people visit every month so it is a pretty big list. we learn that george clooney and oprah winfrey were among the early visitors to the white house. despite a campaign pledge, lobbyists are still prominent on the guest list. newly released documents show that dick cheney told a special prosecutor he didn't

know who leaked the identity of a cia agent to the press. he answered many questions with i do not recall. investigators were trying to figure out who leaked valorie's identity. cheney's chief of staff, scooter libby was convicted of purgery in that case. >> a marine who returned from afghanistan said he was a bit overwhelmed bay reception he got from a third grade class in arizona. he was adopted by the class and started getting packages and letters to the students. he was invited to the school to meet with the students. the class had other ideas, putting on an extravagant party. >> i thought i would come home and see the kids in the class. i didn't think it would be a huge production. but it is very nice to see how

much they think i meptant to them. >> the children sang a song he is very familiar with god bless the usa. the class recorded a video of themselves singing the song. he played it for his entire unit. >> the turn around looks at entrepreneurs adjusting to a rough economy and turning their businesses around. we look at how small independent retailers are teaming up to achieve success. >> kelly and her father are trying to be omt mystic about the upcoming holiday shopping season. like many small independent retailers, the months of november and december can make or break a small business. >> it has been a difficult year. people are not shopping for sport any more. >> main street usa has lost a lot of hustle and bustle to

super sceptereptember dr centers. kelly teamed up with 60 independent stores, some of which are her direct competitors. they have to think like mall store owners in order to survive. >> it is such a big message. if stores get together and realize that you know what? if your neighbor closes on your right and left you are not an island. >> she bimt a group website, got on face book and linked up with the 3/50 project. thousands of independent retailers and communities from arizona to alabama to illinois have joined on too. >> we are not telling consumers to stop going to big boxes or chains and franchises. it is remembering that not all things have to come from a big box. >> that is important not just to retailers but cash starved

communities as well. according to a rekren study for every $100 spent in the stores 68 dollars goes back to the community through taxes payroll and other expenses. if that same amount is spent in a big chain, just $43 stays. they are hoping shoppers will get that miss sajmessage will get the message. >> other local retailers hope that message carries them through a crucial season.

thorities are saying about this accident. a tanker is no longer leaking oil but the problems from the spill are far from

over. plus, no one likes to sit next to a screaming child on a plane but one airline decided to do something about it. why it is now apologizing. and this halloween, rocker sting is scaring up new songs. he has already felt surroundedly ghosts. >> hey there thanks for having us over. a charter bus carrying members of a college band overturns on interstate 75. several people on the bus were taken to area hospitals with non-life threatening injuries including one person who was trapped. >> we did have one trapped in the bus for a period of time. once we got them extricated we downgraded them. >> the bus was one of three going moore house albany state game. a car may have cut off the bus, causing the bus driver to lose

control. rain made the roads slick but it is not clear if that was factor. the bus ended up on its side in a ditch. we will breng you more on the story as it develops. >> suspected rapist and killer is behind bars. the 50-year-old -- someone saw him walking down the street. on thursday police wept to arrest sowel on charges of assault and rape. he was not there but police found two decomposeingyeing bodies there and then police four four more bodies. people who live in the neighborhood are worried about who was in sowell's home. >> i pray it is not my cousin. >> sowell served time in prison for a 1989 rape conviction.

>> two canadians have been arrested by canadian authorities. they were taken into custody today. the two were allegedly members of a mosque in detroit. the leader of the mosque had ek treem anti-government views and encouraged followers to commit violence. they say he wanted to create an islamic state within the united states. the mosque denies he was part of a radical islamic group. >> a tanker has stopped leaking oil in the san francisco bay. a fuel line ruptures during a fuel transfer. san francisco's mayor says hundreds of thousands of gallons has spilled into the bay. >> we responded as though it were a big spill.

we mobilized irrespective of the reporting party. we don't pay too much attention to the volume. >> officials are telling people not to swim in the bay. the coast guard says it looks like the spill was caused bay mechanic kal failure. california officials say they will try to reopen the bay bridge on monday but they cannot guarantee that will actually happen even though they will be working the whole weekend to repair it. >> the time projeks are estimates on what different individual things would take if they worked exactly the way they are supposed to. the thing that is taking time now is the fit up of the steel. what we are focussing on is making sure the rods are in the

exact position we want them to be in. >> the brej was closed after three steel pieces fell off in the middle of rush hour. the bridge carries about 280,000 vehicles every day. the body of a nify pilot missing since wednesday has been found in waters off the coast of texas ltspotted by a crew of a floating rig. the plane's last known location was near san jose island. the daughter of a civil rights lenld has taken over the reigns of the organization her father helped start. bernice king was announced as the first woman ever to hold this post. her father co-founded the sclc in 1957. he served as the first president until his assassination in 1968.

if you stay up late fointonight, here is good news. most of you can take advantage of an extra hour's sleep. the official change happens at 2:00 a.m. sunday. don't forget to fall back. daylight saving time returns next march 13. kids get so excited about getting halloween candy but does the sugar make the kids overexcited? let's go find out. >> the more sugar that my child has, the more hyper. >> they bounce off the walls. >> anything with sugar sets them off. >> it is absolutely untrue that sugar makes kids hyper. >> there have been 12 trials looking at all kinds of factor. all of the studies show that there is no relationship between sugar and a kid's hyper activity. there is a truth that sugar is glucose and it gives the body

energy. but it does not headache you hyper. kids will get sugar at times when they would be very excited. yes, they may be very excited but it is not because of the candy.

the swine flu is now considered widespread in all but two states. more vaccine is becoming available to combat the virus and the supply is closer to meeting the demand. >> i know how frustrating it is to stand in line for hours and maybe not get what you came for in the first place. that's infuriateing. we really want to remind people that there are some people who will likely get very ill and

could potentially die who are in much more priority situations. children with underlying health conditions. preg nannant women. we need them to get to the front of the line. >> there are now 10 million more doses than compared to a week ago. two lawsuits have been filed following the sweat lodge incident. a woman who is badly hurt is also suing. both accuse motivational speaker and retreat leader of negligence and fraud. the lodge co-owner says there is nothing wrong with the facility and she played that part in how the ceremony was run. an attorney for ray has not commented. >> anna nicole smith's boyfriend and two doctors are going on trial. they are accused of conspireing

to give her illegal substances and supplying drugs to an addict. both say they didn't know she was addicted and they were trying to help her. smith died of an accidental overdose in 2007. southwest airlines saying it is sorry for kicking a mom and toddler off of the flight. the boy's mom said she was con if i department he would have behaved once the plane took off but they never got that chance. southwest called her, offered her a refund and a $300 travel voucher. and the olympic torch has arrived in canada. it's tour will include a stop in a tourist town. officials there spent $50,000 of taxpayer money to have the torch swing through. it will have unusual bearers.

a skate border and a surfer. >> i will be laying on my board. paddling, catch the wave. >> i will grab the torch and keep riding like this. >> people say the torch run may be the biggest party the town has ever seen. the torch will make an ep pick 28,000 mile before reaching the opening ceremony in vancouver. >> blogs, newspapers around the world are buzzing about the big new change on the internet. site names can now be in characters that look nothing like the english alphabet. one newspaper calls it a major shot in the arm for cultural equality and some say it will push the internet away from the american roots and give it a more international flavor. you can check out this video for sign names and numbers.

>> countries can start applying in just two weeks. you will be able to get fwlish translations as well. we have heard doctors warn about the dangers of not getting enough sleep. here is something to keep in mind as we turn our clocks back tonight. getting too much shut eye can have its draw backs as well. extra sleep every once in a while does not have serious

risks but oversleeping could be a sign of a health problem. people who got less than five hours or more than ten hours of sleep increase their chances of dying at a younger age. are these times putting the squeeze on your finances? clark howard is on hln each week to help you. log on and submit your ireport. you could be selected to be profiled on our network and get valuable advice m and don't forget to watch the clark howard show at noon eastern on hln. >> a solar could not plooef the welcome he had waiting. snoelt i am proud to be an american ♪ ♪ where at least i know i'm free ♪ >> what the kids did before the soldier came home. ♪ god bless the usa ♪

thursday up, friday down way down.

the stock markets got clobbered yesterday with the dow jones industrial average losing 250 points. that negated thur's big rally and then some. news that consumer spepding helped drag the markets down. the s&p has dropped more than five and a half%. president obama says the u.s. economy is moving in the right direction. the president put it out fresh seens of economic growth and noted that the economic stimulus package has created or saved jobs. >> economic growth is no substitute for job growth and we will likely see further job losses in the coming days. that is troubling for the economy and heartbreaking for the men and women who find thems out of work. >> plens say more needs to be done to create jobs but they

disagree. as a matter of fact, only republicans have offered sloughs to lower health care costs and make it easier to obtain quality affordable coverage without imposing a massive burden on the american people. the white house is now releasing the names of people who pay a visit. it was a campaign promise to make the lists public. around 100,000 people visit the white house every month so it is a big list. we learn that actor george

clooney and oprah winfrey were among the early visitors. the list shows that despite a campaign pledge lobbyists are still prominent on the guest list. and former vice president dick cheney didn't know who leaked the identity of a cia agent to the press. he answered many questions with "i do not recall." an identity was revealed after her husband criticized the mungs. scooter libby was convicted of purgery in that case. the list of democrats is down by 1. ga vin newsome has dropped out of the race. the young family and

responsibilities at city hall as his reasons for leaving the race. newsome trailed jerry brown. >> and a marine who returned from afghanistan said he was a bit overwhelmed by the reception he got from a third grade class. he was adopted by the class and started getting packages and letters from the students. he was invited to meet with the students. he expected a small gathering, but the class had another idea. putting on an extravagant party. >> i thought i would come homeclass, i didn't think it was going to be a huge production. but it is very nice to see how much they think i meant to them but i hope i can convey how much they really mean to me. >> the children sang a song he is very familiar with "god bless the usa." while he was in afghanistan, the class recorded a video of themselves sing the song and he played it for his entire unit. president obama is getting

more advice as he considers the next move in afghanistan. he met with the joint chiefs of staff and other top military advisers yesterday. the meeting comes in the deadliest month yet for u.s. forces there. sources tell cnn each branch of the military got a chance to explain the impact of sending more troops. the army and marine corps have expressed concerns that it would be tougher to give troops promised time at home with their families. three american hikers detained in iran have received their second visit since they were arrested. their families say swiss diplomats spent 40 minutes with them on thursday. switzerland handled the visit because the u.s. doesn't have diplomatic relations with iran. the hikers seemed nervous and scared, but in good physical and psychological health. they cross iran's border during a hike in northern iraq three months ago. their families say they did it by miss take. somali pilots want $5 million. the couple's government says it

won't pay up. british officials say they don't make deals with hostage takers. paul and rachel chandler set sail from the islands on october 21st borne for tanzania. a distress signal was sent out two days later. a journalist says the chandlers are being held on a hijacked spanish ship. just ahead, sting is going from fields of gold to field of ghosts. a preview of his haunting new winter album. ♪ easy to remember to love that way ♪

a charter bus crashes and flips over on its way to a college football game in georgia. who was on it and what authorities are saying about the accident. a tanker is no longer leaking oil into the san francisco bay but the problems from the spill are far from over. plus, no one likes to sit next to a screaming child on a plane, but one airline recently decided to do something about it. why it is now apologizing. and this halloween, rocker sting is scaring up some new songs. why the singer says he's always felt surrounded by ghosts. hey there thanks for having us over. you're watching "hln news and views." i'm virginia cha. investigators say some 39 morehouse college students were inside a bus when it flipped.

several people were taken to area hospitals with nonlife threatening injuries including one person that was trapped. >> one person was trapped on the bus for a period of time that we considered critical until we got them extricated. >> officials say the bus was one of three going to south georgia to a morehouse-albyilbany state game. rain made the roads slick, but it isn't clear if that was a factor. the bus ended up on its side in a ditch. we're going to be bringing you more on the story as it develops. suspected rapest and killer anthony solo is behind bars. he had been on the run but woio says someone saw him walking on the street and called authorities. he was taken into custody without incident. on thursday, they went to arrest him at his home. wasn't there, but fleece say they found two decomposing

bodies upstairs and a freshly dug grave in the basement with at body in it. police searched in and around the house and found three more bodies. none has been identified, but people who live in the neighborhood are worried about who was inin solo's home. >> i pray to god it is not my cousin and if it is my cousin, i'm sorry. >> authorities say solo served 15 years in prison for a 1989 rape conviction. two canadians wanted by the fbi have been arrested by canadian authorities. they were taken into custody today in windsor ontario. the two were allegedly members of a mosque in detroit. the fbi says the leader of the mosque had extreme anti-government views and encouraged followers to commit violence. they also say he wanted to create an islamic state within the united states. abdullah died in a shootout with fbiants. the agents say he resisted arrest inside a warehouse and

fired a gun. the mosque denies he was part of a radical islamic group. hope is dimming in the search for survivors of a thursday night collision between a coast guard plane and a marine helicopter. nine people were on board the two aircraft combined. ships and helicopters are searching the southern california coast near san diego. debris from both aircraft has been found but so far there has been no sign of the victims. the coast guard plane involved was itself on a search for a missing boater. the marine helicopter was on a training mission. a tanker has stopped leaking oil into san francisco bay. the leak started yesterday morning when a fuel line ruptured on a panamanian flight tanker during a fuel transfer. san francisco's mayor says hundreds of gallons of oil spilled into the bay. the coast guard organized a massive response to this spill. >> rather than trying to estimate exactly what it was we're responding to we responded as though it were a big spill, and we mobilized

irrespective of the reporting quantity. we don't pay too much attention to the initial volume. it just doesn't work. initial volumes are never correct. so while there may have been a lower report out there initially it did not affect the way we responded. we responded as though it were a very -- a much larger spill. >> officials are telling people not to swim in the bay and to avoid local beaches. coast guard says it looks like the oil spill was caused by some kind of mechanical failure. officials will try to reopen the san francisco oakland bay bridge on monday but they can't guarantee that will happen even though they're going to be working the whole weekend to repair it. >> the time projections that have been given are estimates on what different individual things would take if they worked exactly the way they were supposed to. the thing that is taking time now is the fitup of the steel. again, what we're focusing on is making sure that those rods are in the exact position we want them to be in when we begin tensioning them. >> the bridge was closed tuesday

after three steel pieces fell off of the middle of rush hour. they crashed into traffic lanes and injured one person. bridge carries 280,000 vehicles every day. the body of a navy pilot missing since wednesday has been found in the waters off the coast of texas. the coast guard says the body was spotted yesterday afternoon by the crew on a floating rig. the search is still on for the second pilot on board when that training plane disappeared. the plane's last known location was near san jose island. president obama is getting more advice as he considers the next move in afghanistan. he met with the joint chiefs of staff and other top military advisers yesterday. the meeting comes in the deadliest month yet for u.s. forces there. sources tell cnn each branch of the military got a chance to explain the impact of sending more troops. the army and the marine corps have expressed concerns that it would be tougher to give troops promised time at home with their families. as the obama administration considers its strategy in

afghanistan, a state department official there is resigning in protest of the war. and he says he's getting a lot of support for his decision. in a letter he said he was leaving because, quote -- he talked to our sister network cnn's fareed zakaria about what it is like on the ground in afghanistan. >> the top military brass have all endorsed general mcchrystal's report and request. do you think that down on the ground there is a very different feeling? >> oh, yes. yes, yes, there is. i think on the ground in the perspective is that what is a strategic value of what we're doing here. why are we doing this? what are we getting out of it? it is not going to fuel al qaeda. if you take the two goals defeating al qaeda and because of nuclear weapons and relations with india, the position of the government in islamabad 50,000

troops taking on 50 60 dead a month in this country and how many wounded and killing how many afghans as well doesn't accomplish either of those goals. >> why doesn't it defeat al qaeda? >> al qaeda evolved. they became, like to say an ideological cloud. they have safe havens in six, seven other countries. >> see the entire interview with hoh tomorrow on our sister network, cnn at 1:00 and 5:00 p.m. eastern. what price would you pay to have the olympic torch in your town? a small town in canada decided to pony up some cash for a torch cameo. the price it paid coming up.

the swine flu is considered widespread in all but two states. but the cdc says more vaccine is becoming available to combat the virus. and the supply is closer to meeting the demand.

>> i know how frustrating it is to stand in line for hours and maybe not get what you came for in the first place. that's infuriating. we really want to remind people though that there are some people who will likely get very ill and could potentially die, who are in much more priority situations, children with underlying health conditions pregnant women, we need them to get to the front of the line. >> there are now just over 26 million doses in the u.s. 10 million more than compared to a week ago. two lawsuits have been filed following the sweat lodge tragedy in arizona. the family of one of three people who died filed a wrongful death suit and a woman badly hurt is also suing. both accuse motivational speaker james arthur ray and the owner of the lodge of negligence and fraud. the lodge co-owner says there is nothing wrong with the facility itself. and that she played no part in

how the ceremony was run. an attorney for ray has not commented on the suits. anna nicole smith's former boyfriend and two doctors are going on trial. a california judge ruled yesterday there is enough evidence to try them. the boyfriend, howard stern and the doctors say they didn't know she was addicted and that they were trying to help her. they pleaded not guilty. their arraignment is scheduled for december 11th. smith died of an accidental overdose in february 2007. southwest airlines is saying it is sorry for kicking a mom and her toddler off a flight. the crew booted them because they say the boy screams of go plane, go, and i want daddy drown out the preflight safety announcement. the boy's mom said she was confidented boy would have behaved once the plane took off but they never got that chance. southwest called her offered her a refund and a $300 travel

voucher. the daughter of a civil rights legend has taken over the organization that her father helped start. bernice king is the new leader. she's the first woman to hold the post. her father, martin luther king jr., co-found the sclc. he served as the first president until his assassination in 1968. some say king's main challenge will be to give the organization a sense of mission. if you stay up late munching on halloween candy tonight, here is good news for you, most of you can take advantage of an skr hour of sleep before you wake up tomorrow morning. the official change to the standard time happens at 2:00 a.m. sunday. don't forget to fall back. for the places that observe it daylight saving time returns march 13then. we heard doctors warn about the dangers of not getting enough sleep. everything from traffic accidents to weight gain. here is something to keep in mind as we turn our clocks back tonight. getting too much shut eye could have drawbacks as well. experts say extra sleep every

once in a while doesn't have serious risk, but if you habitually oversleep it could be a sign of an underlying health problem and could be cutting into your life span. two studies show people that got less than five hours or more than ten hours of sleep increased their chances of dieing at a younger age. the olympic torch arrived in canada. over the next few months the flame willing crisscrossing that country. its tour will include a stop in the town of tofino. officials spent $50,000 of taxpayer money to have the torch swing through. it will have some unusual bearers including a skateboarder and for the very first time, a surfer. >> i'm laying on my board, right, paddling, catch the wave, i'll grab the torch off him and keep riding the rest of the way like this. >> people who live in tofino say the torch run may be the biggest party the town has ever seen. it will make an epic 28,000 mile journey through canada before

reaching the opening ceremony in vancouver. blogs and newspapers around the world are buzzing about the big new change on the internet. starting soon, sight names can be in characters that look nothing like the alphabet. one arab newspaper calls the decision a major shot in the arm for cultural equality. asian news sites says it will help push the internet away from its american roots and give it a more international flavor. that's what they were going for if the nonprofit group that regulates these things. you can check out this video from the internet corporation for assigned names and numbers. [ speaking foreign language ]

>> countries can start applying in two weeks for the first websites with international characters. you will be able to get english translations as well. a soldier back from afghanistan couldn't believe the welcome some students had waiting. ♪ proud to be an american where at least i know i'm free ♪ >> why the kids chose that particular song and what they did before the soldier came home.

thursday up, friday down. way down. the stock markets got clobbered yesterday with a dow jones industrial average losing nearly 250 points. that negated thursday's big rally and then some. news that consumer spending dropped last month helped drag the markets down. since topping out on the 19th of this month, the s&p 500 has dropped 5.5%. president obama says the

u.s. economy is moving in the right direction. in his weekly address, the president pointed out fresh signs of economic growth, and noted that the economic stimulus package has created or saved a million jobs. still, he said more needs to be done to create new jobs. >> economic growth is no substitute for job growth. and we will likely see further job losses in the coming days. a fact that is both troubling for our economy and heart breaking for the men and women who suddenly find themselves out of work. but we will not create the jobs we need unless the economy is growing. that's why this gdp report is a good sign. >> republicans also say more needs to be done to create jobs, but they disagree that the stimulus package has been a success. in the gop's weekly address, john boehner said republicans have made a strong case for another direction with the economy and health care. >> it was our obligation as a party to explain to the american people how we would do things better. and on the stimulus the budget,

energy bill and health care, we have done exactly that. as a matter of fact only republicans have offered solutions to lower health care costs, and make it easier to obtain quality, affordable coverage without imposing a massive burden on the american people. >> boehner also called the democrats' health plan quote pages of bureaucracy that will centralize health care decision-making in washington, d.c. the white house is now leasing the names of people who pay a visit. it was a campaign promise by barack obama to make those lists public. around 100,000 people visit the white house every month. so it is a pretty big list. in response to an associated press inquiry, we learned that actor george clooney and tv host oprah winfrey were among the early visitors to the white house. the list also shows that despite a campaign pledge to reduce special interest influence lobbyists are still prominent on the guest list. newry lee leased documents show dick cheney told a special prosecutor he didn't know who

leaked the identity of a cia agent to the press. the fbi documents show in the 2004 interview cheney answered many questions with, quote i do not recall. investigators were trying to find out who leaked cia agent's valerie plame's identify toy journalist robert novak. her identity was revealed after her husband criticized the bush administration in the run-up to the invasion to iraq. scooter libby was eventually convicted of perjury in that case. the list of candidates to become the next governor of california is down by one. san francisco mayor gavin newsom dropped out of the race for the democratic gubernatorial nomination. in a statement his campaign cited his young family and responsibilities at city hall as his reasons for leaving the race. newsom trailed jerry brown in fund-raising even though brown hasn't officially announced his candidacy. a marine who recently returned from afghanistan says he was a bit overwhelmed by the reception he got from a third grade class in arizona. sergeant andrew valor was

stationed in afghanistan when he was adopted by the class and started getting packages and letters from the students. he was invited to the school to meet with the students and he expected a small gathering, but the class had other ideas putting on an extravagant party. >> i thought i was just going to come home and see the kids in the class. he didn't think it was going to be a huge production. but it is very nice to see how much that they think i meant to them, but i hope i can convey how much they really mean to me. >> the children sang a song valor is familiar with "god bless the usa." while he was in afghanistan, the class recorded a video of themselves singing a sock and he played is for his entire unit. just ahead, sting is going from fields of gold to field of ghosts. a preview of his haunting new winter album.

hello. i'm gerri willis and this is "your bottom line," the show that saves you money. nickeled and dimed. we'll tell you about the hidden fees and how you can beat the system. let's make a deal. bartering is back in a big way. when to do it and what to look out for. and the most reliable cars. a rock-solid list of cars to count on. the show that saves you money starts right now. get this. 100% of credit cards offered online, that's all credit cards

offered online, continue to include practices that will be outlawed once tougher new rules go into effect next year. that's according to the pew health group's safe credit cards project. there's talk of moving up the date these new regulations would go into effect. for more on that, we turn to john ulzheimer. president of consumer err education for credit.com. great to see you. >> like wise, gerri. thank you for having me. >> john, you know, congress is jawboning endlessly how they want to move up the date for the credit cards' act to go into effect. are we getting anywhere on that? >> well, it depends on who you listen to, gerri. listening to congress, yes, there is some traction. there is momentum for moving the implementation of the card act up from february of 2010 to december 1st of 2009. however, listening to the aba, the american bankers' association they're basically screaming chicken little, the sky is falling if you do this to us. there's no way in the world to comply by december 1st.

i think you will see the date stay in february of next year because i don't believe that there's any way the credit card industry can implement the changes and fully comply with the card act in essentially less than six weeks. >> wow. there are a lot of goodies in this act for consumers, a lot of things to help you pay that credit card. let's talk about those. >> sure, absolutely. the -- some of the rules changing are, i mean, this is groundbreaking legislation. it really, truly is. consumers who are under 21 and could have gotten themselves into significant credit card debt, they're now going to be unable to open a credit card unless they have a co-signer or they can prove that they have the capacity to make the payments on the bills and another one that i really, really love, gerri, is they -- you now have to tell your credit card issuer, yes, i will allow you to approve a transaction that puts me into an over the credit limit position and you can hit me a $35 to $39 fee. today, it is just willy-nilly.

it is the wild, wild west. over the limit, they can nail you with the fee. >> right. other fees with raising rates and talking more about that. john, as you know, it is hard to do without a credit card or banking account. but the costs of these products, what you pay in fees may be more than you bargained for. some of the most frustrating fees out there are the ones charged by your bank. harold abrams is furious at his bank. >> i was furious that they're charging me $35 for an expense that's $1.65. i mean, it's really -- it's crazy. >> reporter: bank of america charges abrams a total of $105 in overdraft protection fees to cover three charges to his checking account totaling less than 15 bucks. abrams would rather it be declined than pay the tab. he didn't know it existed. what is the $8.40 for? >> stamps, postage.

>> reporter: and the 5 -- $35 fee, add it all up and it is $105. >> yeah. >> reporter: according to an annual survey of bank fees by bankrate.com, most consumer banking fees are on the rise. >> fees have gone up year in, year out over the past decade. some fees go up at a faster pace than others. atm surcharges in particular increase at a rate that's far faster than the pace of inflation. >> reporter: use an atm in your own bank's network, no problem, no fees. step outside that network and you are going to pay fees, big time. an average of $2.22. that's an increase of 12.6% over last year. and guess what. it gets worse. your bank charges you fees, too. for a total fee of $3.54. for accessing your own money. if you have an interest bearing account and fail to keep your high minimum balance, the average monthly fee jumped 5% to $12.25. and overdraft fees were up last year, too. fees for bouncing a check rose 2%. bank of america told cnn it's

changed its overdraft policies just this month. no longer will it charge overdraft fees when a customer's account is overdrawn for a total amount of less than $10 and won't impose more than four overdraft fees in a single day. elizabeth warren, a harvard professor who chairs congress' t.a.r.p. oversight committee says fees are the real way banks make their money. >> the truth is there will be another fee tomorrow and another one the day after that and the day after that. because there are all hidden. you can't find them. the most people discover them is when they have to pay them. >> reporter: abrams complained to the bank twice before going to the top and writing a letter to then ceo ken lewis and that made the difference. his fees were removed. but the frustration remains. >> i really think it's unfair, especially coming from in light of what's going on with banks now and they're being bailed out by the government. i think they have some kind of responsibility to consumers. >> back with us john ulzheimer

of credit.com. john, we have seen trouble in the market recently. people noticed that the credit limits are dropping. their credit charges, particularly interest rising. the pew study we talked about a minute ago says that rates have gone up 20% in the first two quarters of this year. a big, big change. are these credit card operators just trying to get in front of that law change? >> gerri, i think you nailed it. they're absolutely trying to remold what their cardholder base looks like today because they recognize in february of next year or december of this year they are not going to be able to do so with the same amount of ease as they do today so absolutely. that's why you are seeing the activities crushed within this 12 to 18-month period because they recognize next year much more difficult to do so. >> john, is the business model changed now? is it true that banks are getting so much of their income from consumer fees that they just can't give them up?

>> yeah. look. it's become addictive, gerri. it really has. fees are a $20 billion and with a "b" $20 billion revenue channel for the very large banks so they simply will fight tooth and nail to not give up these fees. look. they're very, very clever. these guys aren't dumb. if they're doing away with a fee or limiting a fee, it's like whack a mole. they're popping up and start charging a new fee somewhere else. that's a punitive fee. he did something, going into an overdraft position, that they want to punish him for and the punishment is $35 for every single time he did it. there's convenience fees like an atm fee or foreign transaction fee charging you for the convenience of you using their particular card. >> let's talk some more about these sneaky tricks they're doing right now to really build the income. what are you seeing in the marketplace costing consumers more? >> well, what we're seeing is, you know, the brass ring of fees, if you will, is the increase in interest rate.

and you don't recognize that as a fee sometimes. look, if you pay $5 for the money versus $1.50 for the money, that's in some peoples' eyes a fees. i remember using an atm several years ago. it was 75 cents. today that's a comical amount as a fee. now in the $3 and $4 and $5 range so you're almost accepting to the types of fees when the reality is that you can be more strategic about the credit cards you use and the service that you use at a bank or most importantly who you do your banking with. there are certainly banks and credit unions not doing these types of things because they didn't take the massive bite out of the subprime apple and don't have to juice the consumer to make up for it. >> john, how do you fight back? what can you do if you're a situation where your fees have gone through the roof and you can't afford it? >> look. banks recognize that it's inconvenient and it's not fun to switch financial institutions. but if you have gotten to a point where you are just

flat-out sick and tired of the fees and the treatment that you are getting from your bank or credit card issuer, take your business elsewhere. it's the most -- >> wow. >> it is the most difficult thing to do, to acquire a good customer and you really do have the leverage and the upper hand. take the business to a credit union or local bank not doing these types of things. >> john, love that. use your leverage. don't go anywhere. up next, more hidden fees and what you can do about them. also ahead, a complete guide to bartering. we'll teach you how to score the very best deals.

fees, fees and more fees by some estimates the average american spends between $2,000 and $4,000 a year in fees they

didn't even know they were paying, and the cost of these hidden fees can really take a toll on your wallet in the long run. from cell phones to cable service. to credit cards and banks. to airline travel and hotel stays. experts say the average american is spending close to $1,000 a year extra on hidden fees and surcharges. a nickel here, a dime there. >> that's real money and married couples were talking about $2,000. that's a nice chunk of change just for retirement, a nice vacation, get a head start on school costs. >> reporter: bob sullivan, author of "the red tape chronicles." >> almost every transaction, buying a car, buying a house, getting a cell phone, the company knows far much more than you do including they know what the real cost is, and when there is all this confusion over what things cost, well, consumers lose. >> reporter: they're losing in a big way. the average fee ranges from less than a dollar to $10.

while that may not seem like a lot of money, it adds up. cell phone fees average $9.40 per month, more than $116 a year. cable and satellite tv fees on average run $9.52 a month totaling $114 a year. every time you fly, $33.44 with a national average of 3.5 tickets a year, that totals $102 a year. credit card fees are $7.72 a month, bringing the annual cost to $92. and the average fee incurred for a hotel stay is close to $25, roughly $95 a year per person. boren hanson says hotels have become more creative in what he calls the surprise fee. >> the hotels in 2008 collected about $1.75 billion on fees and surcharges. some fees that surprise guests the most would be an early

departure fee. a cancellation fee. mini bar restocking charges. luggage or baggage holding fees. >> reporter: some hotels charge resort amenity fees for towels and some urban hotels charge a daily fee for receiving faxes. surprise fees, hidden fees, it all adds up. back with us is john ulzheimer. from credit.com. you can the ask the total cost on what you are buying is going to be? right? >> i'm waiting for the day to walk up the aisle at 33,000 and put a dime into the bathroom to get in. the question is what is your breaking point? that's a question we have to ask ourselves. am i willing to pay a buck for this, two bucks for this? the answer is yes, fine. they have you. if the answer is no, you have to do research. fine print for a reason. they don't want you to see the fee that you could avoid in many situations. >> john, let me ask you this,

because i know a lot of people think, you know what, i'm not going to pay that. but if you don't pay that, doesn't that hurt your credit score? >> ah, very, very good point. choose to lose the battle and continue to win the credit war. if you're implemented with a fee with contractual liability for, for example, breaking a cell phone contract early and hit you for the remainder of the cell phone -- >> drives me. >> pay it, pay it. you don't want a collection on the credit report. good point. >> also, i mean, you can't put your head in the sand about this. with overdraft fees in particular, you can't ignore this. you have to be proactive. you have to make sure you get the alerts to your cell phone. what else can you do so you know ahead of time what you're being charged? >> it is a matter of focusing on your statements every month and really being engaged with the accounts in an online environment to see, look, approaching the credit limit. getting the point i don't have more funds in the checking account and going into an overdraft position and it is a responsibility of the financial institution or service provider and us as the customer to stay away from the fee. >> i love that. john, thank you so much.

great to see you again. >> thank you, gerri. in tough times, is bartering the way to go? we'll tell you when to do it and what to look out for.

so you might say so what? who cares? why bother? if there's a woman who knows how to barter it's gerri willis. tell them, gerri. >> i love that. thanks to our friend joy behar for that. you can catch "the joy behar show" every night on hln and enjoy it. it's a lot of fun. okay. let's get down to business. money is tight for all of us these days and some say bartering is the new national past time. janet bodner is joining us now from washington. janet, tell us why you think bartering is so popular now. >> well, a couple of things, gerri. first of all, it is a good deal and seeing on sites like craigslist and that sort of thing the interest is just increasing by leaps and bounds.

and aside from the fact to get good deals, apparently, it is fun. people actually like this. they like to do deals. >> i know people who do this all the time. they'll trade, like i'm redoing my bathroom, i have somebody who knows how to do that work and they come over and i exchange something else for them. people do it informally but increasingly people are doing it online. what are the good websites? >> well, there are a couple here. there is a number of them. one is called barter quest, one is called barter bee. on our website, our home page, kiplinger.com, we list them all and tell what services each offer. people can go on there and look. but the sites are taking advantage of the interest, the very growing interest in this so people can post their goods and services that they have up for barter. >> is it buyer beware, though? >> yes. >> i would think it might be dangerous online on some of these sites because you really don't know the person you're bartering with. >> exactly. that's the thing. we have at kiplinger.com, we'll tell you which sites do the

limited amount of vetting of people. you might sort of want their name and address. and obviously if you're really looking for a serious service like for a baby sitting service or something like that i'm not sure that this would be the best way to go. you really want to start first with your neighborhood people so people that you know and you know their reputations and you can find out what their background is. >> how do i handle this with the irs? is this income? i mean, do you have to tell the federal government? >> well, a couple things, gerri. it could potentially be. if you're just doing this occasionally, probably you're okay. if it's something you're doing -- if you really get into it and you're doing it a lot, you need to go to the irs website and they can give you the rules on bartering. if you're a business and you're doing this routinely and you are trading services with another business, it probably does count as business income. so, it kinds of depends on what level you are. you are just an occasional, an

accidental barterer versus someone who does it all the time. >> well, you know, janet, can i save lot of money doing this? i'm wondering at the end of the day what kind of savings are in this for me? >> well, look, i mean, it's interesting, gerri. some of the examples we used in our story, we've used someone who traded of all things a clothes dryer for a table saw. who knew? something like that. or we were talking about -- were you talking about leases and how people -- leases and maybe cell phone contracts that people get involved in and they're tired of their car lease or want to get out of their cell phone contract, sometimes you can barter because there are other people who want short-term contracts or who would like your lease. there are ways to get out of things early. that's an interesting thing. when i was getting my makeup done, the makeup artist said i would like to barter my services for a wedding party, maybe a dentist's daughter is getting married and he would clean or whiten my teeth for me and i would like to barter that kind of a service or a dermatologist

doing botox injections. there's a lot of creative stuff going on. >> i love that idea. it's a creative solution to a tough problem if you're short on money. >> janet bodnar, thanks. >> my pleasure. okay. everybody loves this list. the most reliable cars of the year. is your car on it? who made the cut?

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rest of this year through 2010. so why would that make me smile? because i don't believe it. in spite of the fact that increasing numbers of americans are delinquent on their home loans and as you move up the price point in house, you have an increasing number of people in trouble, the reality is that lenders are finally getting smart about another way out. throughout the first half of this year, the idea of doing a short sale, where a lender agrees to negotiate a lower selling price for a house, and they take a hit on the mortgage balance was really something talked about that really didn't happen. real estate agents were frustrated beyond belief. but now, to the benefit of home owners and, yes, banks, and especially for people buying homes, short sales are actually working. so are we going to see the millions and millions of foreclosures? i don't think so. but are there going to be great deals on houses throughout the rest of this year and next year? you better believe it. get out there and find the deals.

and now, what's on your mind? what deal are you dealing with? nancy, how are you? >> caller: i'm fine, thank you. >> what's happened to you? >> caller: well, i got a letter yesterday and my husband worked for a big corporation for 32 years. and they're telling me now that since october of '04 to 2009 of april, they found a mistake on his pension money. and what it is, is $450 a month, and they want me to pay that through those years, plus interest. >> wait, wait, wait a minute. you're telling me the pension administrator -- >> caller: yes. >> -- almost five years ago made a mistake in computation paid $450 too much. >> caller: too much. >> they say now they want, let's

see, what is that over -- >> caller: that's close to $25,000. >> and they want all $25,000 -- >> caller: plus interest. >> plus interest for their error? how do you know they even did make a mistake? >> well, i went back through his retirement papers and i did find that it states when he turned 62, if he's drawing social security, they would take $450 off of his check a month. he got sick in early 2000, he had ramsey hunt disease which did a number on his brain, which causes dementia. well, if he had been in his right mind, he would have known that this was supposed to happen and he would have called. i haven't been in this position in over 20 years. where i owed anybody anything. >> the company that your husband worked for for the 32 years, was he a union employee or a nonunion?

>> caller: yes, he he was. >> he was a union member? have you consulted the union? >> caller: no. >> i would request that you contact the union that he worked for. because if he did this to your husband and many other members, the union should get involved. and that's why your husband paid dues all through the years. >> caller: right. >> and the union should be his and his fellow retirees advocates in dealing with the pension administrator for messing up and coming up with a reasonable way for that money to be recouped over time. >> caller: right. >> i would like for you to double back with me, nancy, once you've talked to the union. and if the union is not of help to you and the other retirees, i would like to see what i might be able to do to be of help. lola, what's happened, lola? >> caller: well, to make a long story short, there was this young man that my daughter knew and he ended up homeless, gave us a sad story. we brought him to our home. and to give him a place to live. settled up on the rent.

and he was working, not too long after that. the transmission went out on his car. and i felt sorry for him, because he did not have a way to work. well, i had just got the transmission fixed in my truck, and i told him he could use my truck as long as he promised me one thing -- he would never drink and drive my truck. well, needless to say -- he wrecked my truck. he did over $3,000 worth of damage to it. and got a dwi, thrown in jail and my truck was impounded. he paid about half of it. and once i moved, of course now he's not making payments. he refuses to answer my calls. he refuses to do anything. >> let's talk for a second. first thing i want to tell you -- don't ever give up that wonderful heart of yours. >> caller: okay, yes.

>> you can sue him in small claims court for the $1500 still unpaid. >> caller: okay. >> and you would file suit the filing fees, in most jurisdictions are not that high. and he's going to have to come explain to the judge why he's being such a deadbeat. >> caller: okay. >> and it will be up to the judge, because a lot of what you're talking about is not in writing anywhere. you didn't get a note from him. >> caller: yes, i do. >> then it's not hearsay. >> caller: i do, i do, i have a signed piece of paper that he promised to restore my truck and pay all the damages. >> well, see, the judge is really not going to have a lot of trouble being on your side on this. i'm going to give you a website to go to to read some of the how-to's of small claims court. >> caller: okay. >> nolo.com and read their small claims court guide.

and then after the appeals period is ended, you, then, can go get what's called in many jurisdictions a fifa, although it varies by jurisdiction, you can serve his employer and take his pay. next on "clark howard" -- >> how much for downloading this movie? >> caller: $62,000. >> $62,000 to download a single movie?

do you have a money dilemma that you don't know how to solve? it's so easy to ask me your question. all you do is go to cnn.com/clarkhoward and click the video submission and send me a little video clip of what you want solved. that's what melba has done. >> hi i'm melba. i'm an environmental scientist at the epa and i need a money coach. my biggest debt is my educational loan debt. after i finished school, i was

like, there's no way that i can pay this loan back. because i don't have a job. i have approximately $150,000 worth of student loan debt. my loans are like the thing that i never think about. my question is, how do i pay off all of my student loans. or what's the best way to pay off all of my student loans? >> melba, you got a lot of student loans, but do i have great news for you. there is a brand-new federal program. and since you work for the federal government, if you stay with the feds, you're going to love this. it is an income-based repayment plan. and after ten years' employment with the feds, all your federal loans, whatever remains balance of those, will be forgiven. all right. here's what i want you to do. i want you to pay the minimum that's required under the income-based plan toward your federal loans, and throw every

last dollar you can towards your private loans. and big priority for you. on the student loan front, here's my rule if you are in school parents of kids who are getting ready to go to college do not in four years take out more student loan debt in total than what your likely earnings are going to be in the first year's employment after college. use that as a maximum ceiling of how much money you borrow. you'll really thank me later if you follow that. you have a complaint about one of the giant cell phone companies. what have they done to you, alberto? >> caller: clark, i recently purchased a wireless card for my computer because i was moving to -- i was going to mexico to pack my belongings. i managed a resort that closed down due to the financial crisis.

a downloaded a movie, and they billed me for $62,000. >> wait, wait. wait, wait, wait, wait. how much for downloading this movie? >> caller: $62,000. >> $62,000 to download a single movie? what did they tell you -- >> caller: they adjusted it to $17,000, which they told me was their cost. for the movie ""wall-e"" by disney that my nephew wanted to watch. not only that, clark, but after we got to the $17,000, they said that they were going to cancel my cellular phone, which was also with them. and i was never told of the consequences of downloading a movie overseas, because they charge by megabytes rather than by roaming minutes. >> how high up in the

bureaucracy at this cell phone company have you gone to? >> caller: i have sent a letter to the chairman and chief executive officer. to the executive vice president and general counsel. >> and what answers have you received? >> caller: none, other than a call by supposedly a customer care professional, that told me that the bill was fair and equitable. >> wait a minute. they said that the bill is fair and equitable at the reduced rate of $17,000 for a single movie. >> caller: that's correct, sir. >> we're going to call your cell phone company and hear their explanation for how it's fair and equitable to charge you first $62,000 for a copy of the movie, ""wall-e"" and let's see what your cell phone provider has to say, who has also shut off your service. i mean what wonderful,

wonderful people. >> next on "clark howard" -- >> i am very happy, but it couldn't have happened without your interaction. >> well, and that's a shame. i hate that we had to get involved, because, you know there should have been somebody with more judgment and common sense at the cell phone operator.

welcome back to "clark howard." if you are just tuning in, you missed alberto's story. alberto was charged $62,000 for downloading a children's movie to his laptop using his cellular service. i have put team clark to work. let's see the results. now, alberto, it did work out in this case that you called us. >> caller: yes. >> you know that, huh? >> caller: yes. >> what's happened? >> caller: they have absolutely

adjusted everything. i am very happy, but it couldn't have happened without your interaction. >> well, and that's a shame, i hate that we had to get involved. because you know, there should have been somebody with more judgment and common sense at the cell phone operator. but the important thing here is you're out of trouble, you're not going to have that problem any more. but everybody, you're on warning now, be very, very careful, these laptop cards are dangerous to your financial health. and not everybody is going to be able to be as lucky as alberto who went from being very unlucky to very lucky. so be careful. what risk are you at of identity theft? we hear so much about it. you see all the commercials about how there's this great way for you to keep your identity from being stolen and all that stuff. but how would you figure out how much risk you are actually at?

well, there's now a mathematical formula for free, you can run yourself through, and see how much risk you're actually under based on your profile of having your identity stolen. you go to a website called myidscore.com. when you get there, you fill out a short amount of information about yourself. and if you're trusting enough, your social security number. i chose to put it in there to see what it would show for me. guess what it showed for me. i was at pretty high risk of identity theft. thank goodness i've already frozen my credit. but check out your number and see if you need to take more precaution to protect yourself. okay. i've been on the air 22 years and just when i think i've heard it all, i hear something you're not going to believe. the call you're going to hear next is one that combines two of my least favorite things --

payday loans and bill collectors. and wait till you hear this story. michael's with us. michael, how are you doing? >> caller: i'm doing great, clark. how are you? >> wonderful, thank you. you have some collectors that are bugging you. let's talk about them. >> caller: about six years ago, my wife and i got into some financial problems that we're working through. she made a very bad decision. and she did a payday loan over the internet. >> oh. >> caller: yeah. well, we knew it was a problem. we got it taken care of and everything. but actually about six years after that, we start, she gets a call at work from someone representing a bogus bank. it turned out these people were from the philippines. they told her that they were going to -- if she didn't give them a credit card number over the phone and pay a certain amount, that they were going to have the cops come down and arrest her. >> really. >> caller: yes, that was about six months ago. so they started calling back again. >> the same people from the philippines calling you?

>> caller: yes. and at this point i'm just -- they're calling our family members and stuff. >> they're calling your family members? >> caller: yes. >> what are they saying to your family members? >> just that my wife needs to call them. >> so they're not telling the family members that your wife owes money or anything like that? >> caller: no, they say that my wife owes money and she needs to call them. >> they are saying that? >> caller: yeah. >> well, you know, that's against the law. >> caller: i went to police and talked to people. but since it is out of the country, there's not much they said they can do about it. anyway, what happened was i started, i had their number that they left and i started calling them and i told them we weren't going to pay any money and i started actually having fun with them and they got really mad and they were talking about how they were going to come and cut my wife's hands off and they were going to watch her bleed and being very violent. >> what?

they said they were going to cut your wife's hands off? >> caller: yes. and some other things that i'm probably not going to say over the line about abuse that they were going to do and this, that and the other. >> and you think this whole thing ties back to that payday loan your wife took out six years ago? >> caller: what i think is the payday loan people, we called them and they said that they sell the information that we give after six years. >> so the payday lender just sells their customer list to this phony collection agency in the philippines, that then threatens to harm your wife physically, even in ways that are so awful that you can't even say them out loud? >> caller: yes, the payday loans want to make money any way they can. and apparently they sell contact information after six years. >> michael, you know there are times i think i've heard it all and then you call and let me know i have not heard it all. next on "clark howard" -- >> i noticed that the store brand anti-dandruff shampoo was

quite a bit cheaper. so i went ahead and i got that. and i really was -- my head started itching and having dandruff problems after that.

d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

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d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

ever since i can remember, i've been fascinated by money -- making it, saving it studying it. by the time i was 31, i earned enough to retire. so i embarked on a new mission -- helping you take care of your money. so you can save more, spend less and avoid getting ripped off. now from his radio studio, your money expert, clark howard. >> you see the car ads on tv and you think when you see the dealers doing the things about come on down, we've got great deals, yeah, sure you do. let me tell you something. we're right on the edge of where

car dealers are going to have fantastic deals on new cars. the car market has been completely fouled up from its normal sales patterns this year, because of cash for clunkers. normally we're in a cycle where in september we would have had great deals. but this year, the great deals are delayed. we're going to have phenomenal offerings from mid-november to probably about mid-january, because of the way the car cycle was modified by cash for clunkers. and really great news -- not only will you get a really good price on a new vehicle, for almost all models out there. but your trade-in, again because of cash for clunkers, should likely bring you a higher amount of dollars than it would have in the past. why? because so many cars were destroyed as part of the cash for clunkers program, raising the value of your trade-in. richard's with us. richard, you want to talk about your mom, is that right? >> caller: recently my

90-plus-year-old mother came to live with me and i've been helping her out financially for well over ten years. she was always very secretive about her finances. and what i have found out recently, to my shock and dismay, is that she has been playing these mail-order lotteries. she lived by herself for a long time. and was -- got caught up in these lotteries overseas. >> oh, i'm so sorry. >> caller: as a matter of fact, she has run up credit card debt totaling about $34,000. >> no! >> caller: and she has social security, she gets $923 a month. but she had been -- practically all the social security goes out to make her monthly payments. so she's now become my dependent. should i have her declare bankruptcy? should we just stop making payments?

i hope this doesn't -- i hope it doesn't come to the point that i'm going to have to make payments on this in any way. >> there are a couple of scenarios i wanted to run by you. one is that you have no legal liability for any of these credit cards. there is no need to file for bankruptcy in this case. she has no assets. >> caller: okay. >> so making -- eating up her whole social security payment to service these credit cards is crazy. now, there is something i talked about recently, on the show, called a hardship plan that is something that she may be eligible for through a local affiliate of the national foundation for credit counseling. but generally what happens is the interest rates go to zero. and there's no fees associated with it at all. and if over time she can pay off the balance, she pays off the balance. if there's any issue that a creditor may at some point

attempt to seize money in a bank account, direct deposit of social security should stop and people should go back to receiving a paper check, and that's what she should do. mike is with us. mike, you're having a problem with a bankrupt cable company? >> caller: it's bankrupt, i wasn't aware that. yeah, back in may i was paying my bills online through my bank. and inadvertently paid the cable company the amount of money i was paying to pay off my credit card. they were one below the other. and didn't think anything of it. just clicked to pay the way i normally do, until several days later the bank sent me an e-mail notifying me that it had actually paid the bill and i looked to see that it was the cable company and i panicked. and they since may have had $938.70. i can't get it back.

>> $938. >> caller: and 70 cents. >> you know, when a company is in severe financial trouble, once they have money from you, it is very, very hard to get it back. what have they said to you? have they pled poverty? what has the cable company said about not giving you your money back? >> caller: the first time i called in may and explained to them in tears what i had done, they told me that it would take four to six weeks to get the check back because of the amount of money it was. it was over a certain amount and it would take four to six weeks. so when i called back after the six weeks, the person i talked to said, well, they didn't know what they were talking about. it takes six to eight weeks, so you have two more weeks to wait. >> i'm going to do something in this case. with everything you've been through, that normally i would suggest additional steps for you. but considering the fact that this is a bankrupt enterprise that you're trying to get money

out of, with your permission, i want us to call this cable operator and see if there's anything we can do to get you your money back. >> caller: i would love that. >> i don't know if you were allowed to have your money back, because of the bankruptcy filing, if that is any part of why your $1,000 seems to be lost in space. what an odd and unusual set of circumstances for you to end up out $1,000. hang with me. next on "clark howard" -- >> we called your cable operator and what happened after we called? >> caller: that afternoon, i probably received five phone calls to keep me updated on the progress. >> started saving for college for our son and we aren't sure if we're doing enough.

>> caller: i was paying my bills online through my bank and inadvertently paid the cable company the amount of money i was paying to pay off my credit card. and they since may have had $938.70. i can't get it back. >> hang on just a second because we are going to call them on your behalf and see what we can make happen for you. we called your cable operator. and what happened after we called? >> caller: i got the first phone call, and they asked me to send them a copy of the bank

statement that shows where this amount of money had cleared. and she was very clear. we don't want your account number, cross it off. so i immediately e-mailed them the statement with it on. and with a little request that please keep me updated on the progress of this. that afternoon i probably received five phone calls to keep me updated on the progress. the first was that they had the statement and didn't know when they would get approval for it but apologizing that i had waited so long. a little while later, they called back and said, well, we have the approval. don't know how -- you should have the check by the end of the week. we'll get back to you. finally called back and said, i've actually seen the check. and you will have it tomorrow. it's going to be fedexed to you. i'll call you back when i have the tracking number. so finally she called back with the tracking number. because i'm still not believing this.

she called me back with the tracking number. and told me i would have it, you know, wednesday morning and that she would call me in the morning or sometime on wednesday to make sure that i got it. and lo and behold, at 11:30 fedex showed up at my door and there was the check. >> i will tell you the truth, this is one of those cases where i think that we did make a difference. and i really believe you would have never seen this money. >> caller: i'm sure i wouldn't either. >> and i hate that it took us getting involved. because you know, my whole deal here is to give people the tools and the knowledge and the confidence to go fight your own battles. and you had done everything i could have expected of somebody and still ran into a brick wall, which is why we got involved. >> caller: well i so appreciate it. and my hat's off to all of you. because i know, as you said, i never would have seen the money otherwise.

it's time for "money coach." that's where you get to ask me your money question for the goals you have in your life. see if i have a good answer for you. let's visit with dan and heather. >> my name is dan. >> my name is heather and we need a money coach. >> we started saving for college for our son. and we aren't sure if we're doing enough. we started with a 529 plan. and just put a little bit of money in there. and of course with the economy, the market going down, we lost money on that. and decided to lock into the florida prepaid tuition. we're going to be paying on that for five years. but that only does cover tuition. >> we're hoping we're doing the right thing. but, again, with the way the economy is going, we decided to withhold putting any money in the 529. dan and i both paid for our college with student loans and other things that sort of hinder our opportunities now. obviously we want to avoid that for him. our question is, what more can we do to save for our child's college education?

>> wow, you got a lot of mouths to feed in that household. now another one on the way, three children that you're going to have to raise and pay for college for. but the thing is, do you know what? you paid for your own college. you said that set you back. but the truth is, there are so many ways to pay for college. but you know what? there's only one way to pay for your own retirement. so you love your children. you want the best for them. but key thing -- your primary focus and goal should be to beef up your savings for retirement. you need to contribute more each and every month to that, and then if there's money left over, put it towards your kids' college and the prepaid plan. or in a 529 plan. this conflict i've just talked about, do i hear this over and over and over again. and when i talk with older couples, whose kids are now grown, and then i ask what have

you saved for retirement and they kind of can't look at me because they took all the money and put it toward their kids' college. remember what i've just said. your primary goal with your long-term savings is not -- it is not your kids' college. there's work, there's loans, there's grants, there's scholarships. but for retirement? you got one thing -- and that's you. next on "clark howard" -- >> what is it that this investment advisor is recommending to your mom? >> caller: a variable annuity. >> what? what? are you serious? >> caller: yes. >> no, no, no, no!

arthur is with us. hi, arthur, how are you doing? >> caller: i'm doing well, thanks, clark. >> so you're watching out for your mom. that's a good son, watching out for her. >> caller: thank you. i'm trying to. she has, subsequent to the death

of my father, is taking care of her financial matters. and -- >> first, i'm sorry about the the loss of your dad. >> caller: thank you. and an investment advisor recommended an investment product to her that i'm somewhat skeptical of. >> would you tell me how old your mom is? >> caller: she's 72. >> and what is it that this investment advisor is recommending to your mom? >> caller: a variable annuity. >> what? what? are you serious? >> caller: yes. >> no, no, no, no, no! that is wrong! i don't know if that individual investment advisor is just misguided or is a dishonest individual. but there is absolutely never a circumstance -- never -- where a variable annuity would be proper for someone in her 70s.

a variable annuity is a type of insurance product that has massive commissions and massive ongoing expenses and huge, what are known as surrender charges. the idea at 72 is that normally your mom is not looking for something that might generate an income for her at 100. your mom is looking for something that will cover her needs for the remainder of her lifetime. >> caller: well, is this advice so egregiously bad -- >> yes. >> caller: -- that we should take our business elsewhere? >> i would consider that. because there's not even a reasonable difference of opinion on this. flat-out bad, rotten, terrible, crooked advice. our next caller, joyce, has a real dilemma. a tough one, within a family. almost biblical. she has to make a decision whether she should do what's

best for her or what's best for her daughter. joyce, what's going on in your life? >> caller: okay. we gave our daughter a five-acre piece of property about ten years ago. and she has put a home on it. now she has a first and second mortgage and is unable to make the payments. and they're getting ready to foreclosure. with the first and second mortgage, would it be best for us to contact these folks and ask about how we can refinance it, take it over, or would it be best for them to foreclose and then for us to wait until the foreclosure takes place? would we get a better deal then? >> for your daughter, having late pays and the house being rescued by you for her, short of foreclosure, is much better for her credit than her going through foreclosure. >> caller: yes.

>> and that's number one. number two, though, you will be able to obtain the property after the foreclosure, once it becomes what's known as reo, or real estate owned. what will happen is the holder of the second mortgage will be happen is the holder of the second mortgage will be wiped out by the claim of the first mortgage at the foreclosure and the foreclosure will end up in the hands of the bank that has the first mortgage. it will then go into their r.e.o. department and you will be in a position in the r.e.o. department to buy the property back for potentially a lot less than what even that first mortgage was. you would absolutely get a better deal on the property if you're quiet and wait until it goes to r.e.o. status. >> caller: okay. >> now, the only downside risk from your perspective and we'll

come back to your daughter in a second -- from your perspective is if for some reason there was somebody who had his or her eye on the property and once it goes into r.e.o. they end up buying it right out from under you. how much do you want to keep your daughter out of harm's way versus how much do you want to keep this property and maybe get a good deal on it? >> caller: those are some real difficult questions. >> and they're completely different. that's the thing. >> caller: yes. >> we're dealing with an ethical dilemma, a family dilemma here. >> caller: yes. >> that's really a call for you to make. >> caller: yes. >> if you would like to step in and prevent the financial harm that comes with the foreclosure to your daughter, know that you will have to pay pretty much the full balance on the loan. you're not going to get large concessions. >> caller: yes. >> if you step in. after the fact, you may pick up

the property for who knows -- half of what the outstanding balance is. >> caller: yes. that's what we probably should do. >> well, and that is a decision that you've got to make. next on "clark howard" -- >> you spent these years living well below your income and it made a permanent change in how you handle money in your life by toughing it out and paying it off.

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d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d

> a charter bus crashes and flips over on the way to a college football game in georgia. what authorities are saying about this accident and who was on it. a tanker is no longer leaking oil into the san francisco bay but the problems from the spill are far from over. plus no one likes to sit next to a screaming child on a plane but one airline recently decided to do something about it. why it's now apologizing. and this halloween rocker sting is scaring up some new songs. why the singer says he has always felt surrounded by ghosts. two canadians wanted by the fbi have been arrested by canadian authorities. they were taken into custody today in windsor, ontario. the two were allegedly members of a mosque in detroit. the fbi says the leader of the mosque had extreme antigovernment views and encouraged followers to commit violence.

they also say he wanted to create an islamic state within the united states. the agency says avila resisted arrest inside a warehouse and fired a gun. the mosque denies he was part of a radical islamic group. suspected rapist and killer anthony solo is behind bars. the 50-year-old had been on the run but someone saw him walking on the street and called authorities. he was taken into custody without incident. on thursday cleveland police went to arrest sowell at his home on charges of assault and rape. he wasn't there but police found two decomposing bodies upstairs and a freshly dug grave in the basement with another body in it. police then searched in and around the house and found three more bodies. none have been identified but the people who live in the neighborhood are worried about who was in sowell's home. >> i pray to god that is not my cousin and if it is my cousin, i'm sorry.

>> authorities say sowell served 15 years in prison for a 1989 rape conviction. two canadians wanted by the fbi have been arrested by canadian authorities. they were taken into custody today in windsor ontario. the two were allegedly members of a mosque in detroit. the fbi says luqman ameen abdulla the leader of the mosque had extreme antigovernment views and encouraged followers to commit violence and also say he wanted to create an islamic state within the united states. abdulla died in a shootout with fbi agents on wednesday and the agency says he resisted arrest inside a warehouse and fired a gun. the mosque denies he was part of a radical islamic group. hope is dimming in the search for survivors from a thursday night collision between a coast guard plane and a marine helicopter. nine people were onboard the two aircraft combined. ships and helicopters are searching the southern california coast near san diego. debris from both aircraft has been found but so far there has been no sign of the victims.

the coast guard plane involved was on a search for a missing boater. the marine helicopter was on a training mission. a tanker has stopped leaking oil into san francisco bay. the leak started yesterday morning when a fuel line ruptured on a panamanian flagged tanker during a fuel transfer. san francisco's mayor says hundreds of gallons of oil have spilled into the bay. the coast guard has organized a massive response to the spill. >> rather than trying to estimate exactly what it was we're responding to we responded as though we're a big -- it were a big spill and mobilized irrespective of the reporting. we don't pay too much attention to that initial volume. it just doesn't work. initial volumes are never correct, so while there may have been a lower report out there initially it did not affect the way we responded. we responded as though it were a much larger spill. >> officials are telling people not to swim in the bay and to avoid local beaches.

the coast guard says it looks like the oil spill was caused by some kind of mechanical failure. california officials say they will try to reopen the san francisco oakland bay bridge monday but say they can't guarantee it'll actually happen though they'll be working the whole weekend to repair it. >> the time projections given are just estimates on what different individual things would take if they worked exactly the way they were supposed to. the thing that is taking time right now is the fit up of the steel. again, what we are focusing on is making sure those rods are in the exact position we want them to be when we begin tensioning them. >> the bridge was closed tuesday after three steel pieces fell off of the middle of rush hour. they crashed into traffic lanes and did injure one person. the bridge carries about 280,000 vehicles every day. the body of a navy pilot missing since wednesday has been found in the waters off the coast of texas. the coast guard says the body was spotted yesterday afternoon by the crew on a floating rig. the search is still on for the second pilot who was onboard

when the training plane disappeared. the plane's last known location was near san jose island. president obama is getting more advice as he considers the next move in afghanistan. he met with the joint chiefs of staff and other top military advisors yesterday. the meeting comes in the deadliest month yet for u.s. forces there. sources tell cnn each branch of the military got a chance to explain the impact of sending more troops. the army and marine corps have expressed concerns that it would be tougher to give troops promised time at home with their families. as the obama administration considers its strategy in afghanistan a state department official there is resigning in protest of the war. he says he's getting a lot of support for his decision n a letter he said he was leaving because, quote, i fail to see the value or worth in continued u.s. casualties or expenditures of resources in support of the afghan government in what is truly, a 35-year-old civil war. hoh talked to our sister network cnn about what it's like on the ground in afghanistan.

>> the top military brass have all endorsed general mcchrystal's report and request. >> do you think that down on the ground there is a very different feeling? >> oh, yes. yes. there is. i think on the ground the perspective is what is the strategic value of what we're doing here? why are we doing this? what are we getting out of it? it's not going to -- if you take our two goals as being the defeat of al qaeda and then baufs the nuclear weapons and relations with india the stabilization of the government in islamabad 60,000 troops taking 50, 60 dead a month in this country and how many wounded and killing how many afghans as well doesn't accomplish either of those goals. >> why doesn't it defeat al qaeda? >> my belief is that after 2001 al qaeda evolved. they became an ideological cloud, exist on the internet. they don't need a safe haven in afghanistan. they have safe havens in

probably six seven other countries. >> see the entire interview with hoh tomorrow on fareed zakaria gps at 1:00 and 5:00 p.m. eastern on our sister network. three american hikers detained in iran have received their second visit since being arrested. the family says swiss diplomats spent 40 minutes with them on thursday. switzerland handled the visit because the u.s. doesn't have diplomatic relations with iran. a senior official says the hikers seemed nervous and scared but in good physical and psychological health. they crossed the border during a hike in northern iraq three months ago. their families say they did it by mistake. somali pirates say they want $7 million in exchange for the british couple kidnapped from their yacht last week but the couple's government says it won't pay up. british officials say they don't make deals with hostage takers. paul and rachel chandler set sail on october 21st bound for tanzania. a distress signal was sent out

two days later. a journalist in contact with the pirates says the chandlers are being held on a hijacked spanish ship. what price would you pay to have the olympic torch in your town? well, a small town in canada decided to pony up some cash for a torch cameo. the price it paid coming up.

the swine flu is now considered widespread in all but two states but the cdc says more vaccine is becoming available to combat the virus and the supply is closer to meeting the demand. >> i know how frustrating it is to stand in line for hours and maybe not get what you came for. that's infuriating. we really want to remind people though that there are some people who will likely get very ill and could potentially die who are in much more priority situations. children with underlying health conditions, pregnant women. we need them to get to the front of the line.

>> there are now just over 26 million doses in the u.s. 10 million more than compared to a week ago. two lawsuits have been filed following the sweat lodge tragedy in arizona. the family of one of three people who died filed a wrongful death suit and a woman who was badly hurt is also suing. both suits accuse motivational speaker and retreat leader james arthur ray and the owners of the lodge of negligence and fraud. the lodge co-owner says there is nothing wrong with the facility, itself, and that she played no part in how the ceremony was run. an attorney for ray has not commented on the suits. anna nicole smith's former boyfriend and two doctors are going on trial. a california judge ruled yesterday there is enough evidence to try them. they are accused of conspiring to illegally give her controlled substances and supplying drugs to an addict. but boyfriend howard stern and the doctors say she didn't know she was addicted and they were trying to help her. they pleaded not guilty. the arraignment is scheduled for december 11th. smith you may recall died of an

accidental overdose in february 2007. southwest airlines is saying it's sorry for kicking a mom and her toddler off a flight. the crew booted them because they say the boy's screams of go, plane go and i want daddy drowned out the preflight safety announcement. the boy's mom said she was confident he would have behaved once the plane took off, but they never got that chance. southwest called her offered her a refund and a $300 travel voucher. the olympic torch has arrived in canada, the host country for the 2010 winter games. over the next few months the olympic flame will be crisscross crisscrossing that country. the tour will include a stop in the tourist town of tofino. officials there spent $50,000 of taxpayer money to have the torch swing through. it'll have some unusual bearers including a skateboarder and for the very first time a surfer. >> i'll be laying on my board paddling, catch the wave. i'm going to grab the torch off him and keep riding the rest of the way like this.

>> people who live in tofino say the torch run may end up being the biggest party the town has ever seen. the torch will make an epic 28,000 mile journey through canada before reaching february's opening ceremony in vancouver. if you stay up late munching on halloween candy tonight here's good news for you. most of you can take advantage of an extra hour's sleep before you have to wake up tomorrow morning. the official change to the standard time happens at 2:00 a.m. sunday so don't forget to fall back. for the places that observe it daylight savings time returns next march 13th. you know for years we've heard doctors warn about the dangers of not getting enough sleep -- everything from traffic accidents to weight gain. but here is something to keep in mind as we turn our clocks back tonight. getting too much shut eye could have its drawbacks as well. experts say extra sleep every once in a while doesn't have serious risks but if you habitually oversleep it could be the sign of an underlying health problem and it could actually be cutting into your life span. at least two studies show people who got less than five hours or

more than ten hours of sleep increased their chances of dying at a younger age. it seems things are often bigger in texas and that can include hometown pride. country singer aaron watson shares some of his favorite hangouts in abilene for "my city my secret." howdy folks. i'm country singer aaron watson but they call me the honky tonk kid ♪ i can still see you standing there ♪ >> i live in abilene texas and i want to show you some of my favorite hangouts. we're here at the abilene zoo. this is one of my favorite spots to take my two little boys. abilene zoo is a hidden gem because it's rare for a town of this size to have such a fantastic zoo. my favorite attraction here at the zoo is our new white tiger. what's he say? >> growl. >> here we are at bogey's downtown abilene texas. you can order something off the menu or they'll help you build your own sandwich. it's an enjoyable eating

experience, kind of the cheers of downtown abilene. this is the historic paramount theater. we did our album cover here for my "honky tonk kid" cd in which i got to sing with willy nelson. when you first walk in you're just overwhelmed with the detail and how fancy everything is. so it's always been a place that i enjoy to not only see movies in but have my own concerts. those are my city secrets. now show me yours. go to i-report.com/my city my secret.

thursday up friday down. way down. the stock markets got clobbered yesterday with the dow-jones industrial average losing nearly 250 points.

that steep drop negated thursday's big rally and then some. news that consumer spending last month helped dragt markets down since topping out on the 19th of this month the s&p has dropped more than 5.5%. president obama says the u.s. economy is moving in the right direction. in his weekly address the president pointed out fresh signs of economic growth and noted the economic stimulus package has created or saved a million jobs. still he said more needs to be done to create new jobs. >> economic growth is no substitute for job growth and we'll likely see further job losses in the coming days, a fact that is troubling for our economy and heart breaking for the men and women who suddenly find themselves out of work. we will not create the jobs we need unless the economy is growing. that's why this gdp report is a good sign. republicans also say more needs to be done to create jobs but they disagree that the stimulus package has been a success. in the gop's weekly address house minority leader john boehner said republicans have

made a strong case for another direction with the economy and health care. >> it was our obligation as a party to explain to the american people how we would do things better and on the stimulus, the budget, energy bill and health care we've done exactly that. as a matter of fact, republicans have offered solutions to lower health care costs and make it easier to obtain quality, affordable coverage without imposing a massive burden on the american people. >> boehner also called the democrats' health plan quote pages of bureaucracy that will centralize health care decision making in washington, d.c. the white house is releasing the names of people who pay a visit. it was a campaign promise by barack obama to make those lists public. around 100,000 people visit the white house every month so it's a pretty big list. in response to an associated press inquiry we learned that after george clooney and tv host oprah winfrey were among the early visitors to the white house.

the list also shows despite a campaign pledge to reduce special interest influence lobbyists are still prominent on the guest list. newly released documents show former vice president dick cheney told a special prosecutor he didn't know who leaked the identity of a cia agent to the press. the fbi documents show in the 2004 interview cheney answered many questions with, quote, i do not recall. investigators were trying to find out who leaked cia agent valerie plains' identity to journalist robert nowak. her identity was revealed after her husband criticized the bush administration in its runup to the invasion of iraq. cheney's chief of staff scooter libby was eventually convicted of perjury in the case. the list of candidates to become the next governor of california is down by one. san francisco mayor gavin newsom has dropped out of the race for the democratic gubernatorial nomination. in a statement newsom's campaign cited his young family and responsibilities at city hall as his reasons for leaving the race. newsom trailed former governor jerry brown in fund raising even though brown hasn't officially

announced his candidacy. a marine who recently returned from afghanistan says he was a bit overwhelmed by the reception he got from a third grade class in arizona. sergeant andrew valora was stationed in afghanistan and was adopted by the class and started getting packages and letters from the student. he was invited to the school thursday to meet with the students. the class put on an extravagant party. >> i thought i was going to come home and see the kids in the class. i didn't think it was going to be a huge production but it's very nice to see how much that they think i meant to them. i hope i can convey how much they really mean to me. >> the children sang a song valora is very familiar with "god bless the usa." while he was in afghanistan the class recorded a video of themselves singing the song and he played it for his entire unit. just ahead, sting is going from fields of gold to field of ghosts. a preview of his haunting new winter album.

the crush of cancer is something felt around the world. the statistics are staggering. but so too, are the efforts by individuals committed to its defeat. >> we pride ourselves on being this small group of people who are audacious enough and naive

enough to think we can change the world. >> reporter: we're going to highlight cancer fighters in their home countries. many are survivors of cancer themselves and they're also proof that hope is often there when prevention and education are enlisted in the fight. five faces in the battle against cancer in this edition of "vital signs." welcome to "vital signs." i'm dr. sanjay gupta cnn's chief medical correspondent and a practicing neuro surgeon. as you know our global look at health knows no boundaries and that's why we're reporting to you this month from a very beautiful dublin, ireland. it is here leaders from 65 countries around the world gather along with health advocates for the livestrong global cancer summit. i'll tell you what. it couldn't have come at a better time. it is estimated by the next year, 2010 cancer will soon

become the leading cause of death around the world. think about that for a second. millions of people dying from this disease every year millions more affected and behind all of those numbers are stories, intimate, personal stories. if you're like me you'll be inspired by these stories and, more importantly, be motivated to do something for yourself and for those you love. that's where we begin with some hope against medicine's greatest challenge. >> cancer has four stages of disease. the majority of affected people come for treatment when they are already at stage three or four. very close to death. it is your education that will save your life. >> reporter: botsi as she likes to be called is the embod emmitt of hope and vitality in the face of cancer. she's a vocal, breast cancer

survivor a rarity in south africa's community where breast disease is a major taboo subject. today she is speaking to secondary school children, both girls and boys. >> you can put water or soap. i need you to help me go out there and educate your mothers, your grandmothers, your neighbors. >> reporter: in a country where women often defer health care choices to husbands botsi including boys will promote support for women down the road. >> i was doing a breast self-exam and it was the first time ever in my life that i had done one. i had this tiny lump. i went and sought medical advice and i was told that this is a very friendly lump. don't worry about it. you're young. >> they told you not to worry. >> don't worry. it was cancer. and that's what drives me to talk about the disease to say

to women, know your body. insist on medical treatment. don't rest until you know for sure. >> the johannesburg township where botsi says the stigma of cancer keeps women from getting care that could save their lives. >> there are lots of social, cultural, financial issues that mitigate against uneducated black women. >> reporter: patients sometimes turn down chemotherapy for fear of being shunned by neighbors who mistake the treatment's side effects with aids. >> women have chosen i think not i think i know for sure to die rather than live with a stigma. women are scared to have mastectomys because they are going to be left by their husbands. >> a woman's body is not her

own. it's her husband's. >> it's -- it's an abuse of culture. we used to pay in cows. now we pay in cash. and the more educated, the more expensive you are. so men start thinking you know, i paid 50000 for her. therefore, she belongs to me. and that's what complicates the issue of women's abuse. >> reporter: here at the hospital botsi works to destigmatize breast cancer and give it what she calls a, quote positive black face. >> i was diagnosed with breast cancer for 18 months without ever seeing a black woman who was willing to speak openly about the disease. it's cancer.

>> there are more beds than any other hospital in the world here but the cancer clinic for hundreds of women is sparse. it's manned by only two doctors who do not speak the women's languages. >> i'm very excited today for the first time we see women in gowns. these are very basic things. there is no privacy so we are fighting for big items like machines and also facing very real, basic human rights needs like just the dignity to have your body covered as a patient. i believe that by showing my scars and being a voice it gives the woman hope. they can see that somebody like them has walked that path and that i'm standing there to say you're going to be okay. the results can be positive. the results can be -- we need to start educating and realize that

we're not necessarily going to die when we have cancer. i'm sitting here talking to you. it is because of education. >> reporter: inspiring a lot of people hopefully to make a difference. we'll have much more on my conversation with leading advocates when "vital signs" returns but first the expansive reach of this truly global epidemic.

welcome back to a very special edition of "vital signs" coming to you from dublin ireland. our next cancer survivors calls pubs like these beauty salons for men a place to engage and socialize over a pint of beer. for that reason rick says they're also great places to break down the stigma and fear often associated with prostate cancer. >> how you doing? >> good. nice to be here. so this is where you end up talking to a lot of people about prostate cancer is that right? >> yeah i do. >> reporter: why here? >> beer is a universal language for men and so i have prostate cancer, had it in '08 and i find that, you know, where women get together and talk about health issues men really don't and so we try to use an atmosphere like the pub where guys are more relaxed. >> reporter: why do you suppose men are so much more reluctant to talk about this? it's our bodies a male cancer. >> i think men want to ignore

the possibility of that of prostate cancer. it's fear. >> what happened? how did you find out you had prostate cancer? >> i was 47 years old. a good friend of mine a colleague at work had prostate cancer and urged me to get tested. >> when you told your doctor i'm worried about prostate cancer specifically. what did your doctor say? he asked, do you have any symptoms? i said no, i feel perfectly fine. so he did a manual exam and he said, no. you're okay. and so i said okay. well you're sending me down for blood work. i'm going to get a psa test right? he said, well you really don't need it. and i said you know i told him about my friend and he said well, your insurance probably won't pay for it because you're not 50 years old yet and i said well, how much is that test doc? he said $75. and i said check the box. we're going to get it tested. it should have been 0.4 and the results came back 11.1.

>> reporter: what's the reaction in a setting like this and you suddenly bring up psas and prostates? >> we go to beer festivals, too. and we see people walking along getting beer samples and sort of mechanically as they come to each booth stick their glass out for the next sample and then walk up to ours and see the sign and you know they kind of recoil a little bit and look at you like what are you doing here? some of those people walk away and five minutes later they come back. and, you know, they're saying gee, my dad has prostate cancer or my grandfather died of prostate cancer. and you start having conversations with them. >> my dad's a survivor of prostate cancer. >> hey. that's great. i am, too. i had surgery last year. >> he did, too. >> it's amazing how many men who have had the disease in their family don't realize if you have that family history your chances of having prostate cancer go up tremendously. >> reporter: who's your most likely target as far as hearing your message? >> you know, there are a lot of guys who come up to the table who are in their 40s. >> need to know what your psa

is. >> who come up and say yeah i've got to start worrying about this in a few years when i turn oo and i say well, let me tell you my story. immediately there's a reaction and a lot of them say, well i'm going to go get checked. >> reporter: with an organization like this how do you measure success and know you're making a difference? >> i have a grandchild born the end of march so march 30th of '09 i'm holding my granddaughter. april 7th of '08 i was just coming out of surgery so it was 51 weeks and so i'm hoping that there's a whole bunch of other guys out there that will experience the same thing and be able to grow up and see their families and grow old. >> kind of gives me chills. i appreciate it. thanks so much. that's a look at news vital to your health. as i mentioned earlier in the program, today's program was really dedicated to you. so go to our website cnn.com/vital signs, and get a lot more information on how to save your own life. but for now, we leave you with some beautiful images of our host city, dublin ireland. i'm dr. sanjay gupta. thanks for watching.

a charter bus crashes and flips over on its way to a college football game in georgia. who was on it and what

authorities are saying about the accident. a tanker is no longer leaking oil into the san francisco bay but the problems from the spill are far from over. plus no one likes to sit next to a screaming child on a plane but one airline decided to do something about it. why it is now apologizing. this halloween rocker sting is scaring up new songs. the singer says he's always felt surrounded by ghosts. two canadians wanted by the fbi have been arrested by canadian authorities. al sali and ali kahn were taken into custody in windsor ontario. the fbi says the leader of the mosque had extreme antigovernment views and encouraged followers to commit violence. they also say he wanted to create an islamic state within the united states. abdulla died in a shootout with the fbi agents on wednesday. the agency says he resisted arrest inside a warehouse and fired a gun.

the mosque denied he was part of a radical group. suspected rapist and killer anthony sowell is behind bars. the 50-year-old had been on the run but cnn affiliate woio says someone saw him walking down the street and called authorities. he was taken into custody with out incident. on thursday cleveland police went to arrest sowell at his home on charges of assault and rape. he wasn't there but police say they found two decomposing bodies upstairs and a freshly dug grave in the basement with another body in it. police then searched in and around the house and found three more bodies. none has been identified but people who live in the neighborhood are worried about who was in sowell's home. >> i pray to god it is not my cousin and if it is my cousin, i'm sorry. >> authorities say sowell served 15 years in prison for a 1989 rape conviction. two canadians wanted by the fbi have been arrested by canadian authorities. mohamed al sali and yassir ali

kahn were taken into custody in ontario. the fbi says luqman ameen abdulla the leader of the mosque encouraged followers to commit violence. there he also say he wanted to create an islamic state within the united states. abdulla died in a shootout with agents on wednesday. the agency says he resisted arrest inside a warehouse and fired a gun. the mosque denies he was part of a radical islamic group. hope is dimming in the search for survivors from a thursday night collision between a coast guard plane and a marine helicopter. nine people were onboard the two aircraft combined. ships and helicopters are searching the southern california coast near san diego. debris from both aircraft has been found but so far there has been no sign of the victims. the coast guard plane involved was on a search for a missing boater. the marine helicopter was on a training mission. a tanker has stopped leaking oil into san francisco bay.

the leak started yesterday morning when a fuel line ruptured on a panamanian flagged tanker during a fuel transfer. san francisco's mayor says hundreds of gallons of oil have spilled into the bay. the coast guard has organized a massive response to the spill. >> rather than trying to estimate exactly what it was we're responding to we responded as though it were a big spill and we mobilized irrespective of the reporting quantity. we don't pay too much attention to the initial volume. it just doesn't work. initial volumes are never correct. so while there may have been a lower report out there initially it did not affect the way we responded. >> officials are telling people not to swim in the bay and to avoid local beaches. the coast guard says it looks like the oil spill was caused by some kind of mechanical failure. california officials say they will try to reopen the san francisco oakland bay bridge monday but they say they can't guarantee that'll actually happen even though they'll be

working the whole weekend to repair it. >> the time projections that have been given are just estimates on what different individual things would take if they worked exactly the way they were supposed to. the thing that is taking time right now is the fit up of the steel. again, what we are focusing on is making sure that those rods are in the exact position we want them to be in when we begin tensioning them. >> the bridge was closed tuesday after three steel pieces fell off of the middle of rush hour. they crashed into traffic lanes and did injure one person. the bridge carries 280,000 vehicles every day. president obama is getting more advice as he considers the next move in afghanistan. he met with the joint chiefs of staff and other top military advisors yesterday. the meeting comes in the deadliest month yet for u.s. forces there. sources tell cnn each branch of the military got a chance to explain the impact of sending more troops. the army and marine core have expressed concerns that it would be tougher to give troops promised time at home with their

families. blogs and newspapers around the world are buzzing about the big, new change on the internet. starting soon, site names can be in characters that look nothing like the english alphabet including chinese, arabic and hindi script. one arab newspaper calls the decision a major shot in the arm for culture equality and an asian news site says it will help push the internet from its american routes and give it a more international flavor exactly what they were going for as the nonprofit group that regulates these things. check this out at the corporation for assigned names and numbers. [ speaking in foreign language ]

>> countries can start applying in just two weeks for the first websites with international characters. you'll be able to get english translations as well. what price would you pay to have the olympic torch in your town? well, a small town in canada decided to pony up some cash for a torch cameo. the price it paid coming up.

urgent news. a sixth arrest in the brutal gang rape of a 15-year-old girl. police say this vicious attack went on for two and a half hours. no one did anything. finally, someone was brave enough to call 911. we will talk to that courageous person. plus a mom dies trying to win a radio contest. the challenge see who can chug the most water. she ended up dying, basically drowned herself in the water she was drinking. her family sued. the jury awarded them over $16 million. how is that for a message?

good. good ruling. this hour we'll talk to her grieving mom. you're a huge part of the show. love hearing from you. the number 1-877-tell-hln. e-mail as well cnn.com/prime news or text us at hln tv. start your message with the word "prime" and it's your chance to be heard. controversy, opinion, your point of view. this is "prime news." >> welcome. this is "prime news." i'm mike galanos. we have new developments in the brutal gang rape of a california girl outside of a high school, richmond, california. cops say the attack lasted two and a half hours. well, now we know someone had the courage to call 911. we'll talk to that person in just a moment. first, let's update you on the case. there has been a sixth arrest. an 18-year-old, charges felony rape. >> this is one of the most brutal crimes i've seen in my 15 years as a cop. on saturday night after a dance here on the richmond campus we responded and found our victim

who was unconscious. the officers saw several people surrounding her and they fled as we approached. we caught one individual as the officers made contact with the victim and found she was unconscious and was stripped naked. what we do know is that multiple suspects physically beat her, robbed her, and sexually assaulted her. and only a few hours ago was she released from the hospital. >> unbelievable. we are finding out kids sensed danger as they looked outside the dance. where was security? girl was raped for more than two hours. didn't anyone see anything? here's the school district's response. >> we had four uniformed police officers and a number of teachers and administrators who were both inside and outside. we didn't do a perimeter walk of the school. this is on the far side of the school at the perimeter. >> all right. as always, we take your phone calls. the number 1-877-tell-hln. someone finally did step in step up. joining me now the woman who

made the 911 call. her name is marguerita. talk to her in a second. also joining us henry lee reporter san francisco chronicle. marguerita, let's start with you. thank you, first off for stepping up and doing what no one else would so we thank you for your courage. tell us how you found out that a young woman was being attacked like this. >> i found out by my brother-in-law and my boyfriend and a couple of his friends, mainly my brother-in-law who came to my home and told me that there was a girl beaten raped, naked, passed out in richmond high so, you know he was scared to call the cops so he came to me and i'm the one that called the cops, so that's how i found out. >> okay. so you get -- did you think twice about calling police? >> no, i didn't. >> were you immediately ready to get some help for this girl? >> i had the phone right next to me. i guess i was meant for the phone to be right next to me and

i got the phone and i called. i didn't even think twice about it because i wouldn't want anybody to die, you know. >> yeah. again, marguerita, we do applaud you. what was your reaction when you heard something like this was going on? >> my reaction? i was scared. i was worried. i was concerned it might be like anybody i know or even if it isn't anybody i know is she dead, okay? i was scared. >> are you scared now? >> i'm scared. but i'm actually happy that they arrested some guys that did it. >> well, again as you've thought about this this is happening close to you in your community. have you wrestled with the question of how does something like this happen to a 15-year-old? >> how i'm thinking that

shouldn't even be in the minds of any 15, 16, 17-year-old actually beating a girl raping a girl. i don't know what kind of lifestyle do they live so they could think that way or think it's okay to do that but richmond is known for a bad area. i don't think it's everybody that's bad. it's just people that think, wrong choices, you know the teenagers who did that. i guess they're going through something in their life or they thought it was cool or just wanted to get liked by certain people. >> wow thank you again for taking time and for stepping up and making that phone call. you could have helped save a life here. >> blum. >> let's bring in henry lee reporter "san francisco chronicle." let's get everybody updated. we have a sixth arrest. give us the details. can we expect more arrests any time soon? >> well on thursday night juan montano was arrested on similar charges of rape by force, rape

in concert, and penetration with a foreign object but breaking news, mike just moments ago, i did confirm with the contra costa district attorney's office that one of the six suspects will be released from custody today because of insufficient evidence. that is salvador rodriguez. so we go from six arrests down to five. obviously the police investigation active and ongoing, mike. >> okay. what do we know about people coming forward with information? we heard from margarita who made the 911 call, brave young woman. she is fearful. are people holding back information at this point, henry, out of fear and we'll use the word snitching and the consequences? >> i have no reports anyone is holding back. certainly because of the sense of community outrage which is widespread and deep. a lot of people are very upset about what happened. it doesn't matter what the street, what it is on the street. a lot of people do want to come forward and talk to police about what happened. >> okay. we hope they do. have you had a chance to get a sense, henry of students at the

school in that area? are they fearful to go back to that school? what's been that reaction? >> as we've heard throughout the week students have to go to school nevertheless. they have tests to take a lot of academics going on. the students banded together earlier in the week at a news conference telling us this is not what richmond high is all about. we are a good community, a great campus full of great people. we are outraged at this and we don't want people to make any kind of stereotype notions about who we are. >> yeah. hopefully as they grapple with this they'll have some i know they've talked about better security and getting those cameras up and running that should be ready to go by january. good talking to you. thanks for the update. we appreciate it. margarita as well. a 20-year-old football star at u-conn stabbed to death outside a school dance. all right. we want justice. his grieving family wants justice. yet there were people going online to tell people not to bring the truth forward.

don't snitch. well thankfully, cops have ferreted out one of those rats and we have an arrest.

welcome back. our heart breaks for the family of university of connecticut football star jasper howard. the 20-year-old a father to be stabbed to death outside a campus dance. this hour a new arrest. not for howard's murder but a heinous crime of making threats to witnesses who may have seen something that night to keep them from going to the cops naming the killer. christopher mutchler is charged with hindering prosecution and acts of terrorism.

he had the audacity to post this on a facebook memorial page where family and friends were there to pay tribute. he writes, the snitches i know you. jasper howard would not be down with that. this needs to be a lesson for all of u-conn. you will be stabbed shot, mugged or beaten for blanking around. so friends family are crying out for justice and some coward is posting threats online if someone brings forward the truth? that's what we have here. those alleged charges facing this guy. joining me now to talk about this kate monahan reporter for "the u-conn daily campus" and also with us psych just paula bloom. good to have you back as well. what do we know about this guy? >> well so far we don't know too much. he was a u confreshman from connecticut. he posted these threats one under the name c.j. and another under a nickname. both of the threatening posts

which have been highly publicized were posted by him and as far as police know he is in no way affiliated with the suspects in this case and also the police said the threats he made were empty threats but they believed that there was reason that it was possible these threats prevented witnesses from coming forward and felt arresting him would eliminate any fears people had. >> right. whether they were empty i'm sure there might have been people intimidated by these. were you frightened or other students fearful when they see posts like that? that was threatening violence. >> yeah well, definitely. a lot of people i mean, over 8,000 people had access to see these posts just on the facebook page alone so a lot of people could have seen it and thought even though this was just this one guy it could have been a whole group of people. he makes references to scare a

lot of people into thinking is this gang violence there could be a lot of these people out there. i think police were thinking that, you know by arresting him that -- you can't just make threats like that no matter what the forum. >> yeah. let me get paula in on this. what's the mindset here? you're talking about a grieving family and you're going to get in the way of justice by posting these threats online. >> yeah. i actually think this is a really good thing. people, we learn to trust and we learn to mistrust. and until people realize there are consequences, people are going to stay silent so i think it's wonderful that something like this happened so that people can learn that coming forward is something that's safe to do and that you're going to be protected because now we have these different messages. when you're a kid it's like nobody likes a tattle tale kind of thing. we get these different messages in many cultures and many parts

of our country people do not trust that people will be there to take care of them if they tell the truth. and so to me whoever is involved in this it's like they stepped up and said you know what? this isn't okay. because when you're terrified for your life it is very hard to say, well what's the right thing to do in this situation? let me say what's going on. you have to take care of yourself. it's all about self-preservation. >> for this guy, as you said he is the face of cowardice here. he is the one stopping justice and preventing people from coming forward. we'll continue on this and read more of his threatening posts and take your calls at 1-877-tell-hln.