welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we continue our conversation. authorities still, we are still baffled. where is morgan harrington? virginia tech student, went to a metallica concert, ended up outside the arena. she has not been seen since. joining us to talk about it someone who has covered this extensively. senior editor for "the hook" courtney stuart. courtney, thanks again for being with us. right before we mentioned that there was someone coming forward who saw her before the concert started. i believe his name is dave gardner. what is he saying about courtney's -- excuse me -- morgan's mood and what was going on before the concert with her?

>> well, i have not personally spoken with mr. gardner. i've left him some messages and haven't been able to get him but from the accounts that i have read and from what i understand he parked next to morgan and her friends and had some chance to interact with morgan but not the other people in her car prior to going in and his description of her was that she was enthusiastic, really excited about the show, saying we're here to see metallica. he said it didn't really appear they were tailgating or doing anything at the car, she just looked like a girl that was ready to go see a show and have a good time. >> and you get the sense from what he is saying that there was no real partying going on, alcohol, anything like that. she was just excited to see metallica, right? >> well, he didn't see anything that suggested it and her behavior to him did not suggest, but, you know, i don't have any firsthand knowledge of what they were doing prior to arriving or anything like that. but his description does not

suggest that they were out in the parking lot tailgating. >> so he's a witness that sees her beforehand. are any witnesses coming forward who saw her after she ends up outside the arena for that 50-minute window? >> there are several people who have come forward and i have talked to several people who saw her not only when she was outside but after she was separated from her friends and both inside and outside the arena people did see her in that period of time that the police are calling critical because it's after she left her friends and then, you know, she ended up outside and then of course vanished. >> what are they saying? >> those people, you know, have had some things they noticed. >> anything specifically you want to tell us? >> yeah. today, something that i've been hearing, over the last few days, was that she had an injury to her face. and that there was some blood. i had been told it was on her chin. the people that i was hearing it from were not interested in going on the record or being the

source of that and so it wasn't until i got confirmation from the police that i felt that was something i was comfortable reporting. but they did confirm that, yes, she did sustain some kind of injury. they said it was minor. they did not believe it would have been something that would have been sustained in like an attack or assault. that it looked consistent with a fall perhaps. so that -- but that is a new detail that's just come out today and, you know, provides another tiny piece of the puzzle to what was going on when she was no longer with her friends. >> exactly. well, i'm sure we'll be picking up on that detail. courtney stuart, thanks again. we appreciate your insight as we hope, again, to hope and pray for morgan's safe return. >> thank you. coming up -- the king of pop's final bow. will "this is it" bring michael fans closure to the tragic death? stay with us for that. smoo

hello. i'm richard branson. last year i had the honor of serving on the blue ribbon panel that selected the top ten cnn heroes of 2008. these everyday citizens who are changing the world are recognized during "cnn heroes an all star tribute." as founder of an organization which tackles social and environmental problems around the globe, i'm absolutely thrilled to help cnn introduce one of this year's top ten honorees. now more than ever the world needs heroes. >> in zimbabwe ten girls per day they are raped. they need an advocate to help them break silence. my name is betty makoni. i founded an organization that rescues girls from abuse. when a girl gets to the villages she is provided with emergency medication, reinstatement in school, as well as counseling.

it gives them the confidence to transform from victims to leaders. >> so no to child abuse! >> say no! >> this is the job i have always wanted to do. it gives me a fulfillment and in girls i see myself every day.

"this is it." michael jackson's final bow debuted this week all around the world. this is a documentary that highlights the final rehearsals leading up to jackson's last concerts in london that were supposed to happen, but we all know he died before the tour ever opened. so will this much anticipated movie finally bring closure for fans? joining me now, the entertainment reporter for the "associated press." she's seen the movie. my first question has to be, what did you think of it? >> i loved the movie and i'm not a huge michael jackson fan. the movie was fantastic. you see that the concerts would have been amazing had he lived. he stills was extremely musically inclined. he danced like he was 25 years old. very impressive. >> we've heard from jermaine and family members that seem to be

very excited about it, glad there's this movie. we've heard not quite the same thing from la toya and from joe. is the family united behind this movie or not? >> the family is not united behind this movie. of course, joe jackson has spoken out about the movie a ton but he did say after seeing the movie in las vegas, he went to the premiere there, that it did provide some closure and he was happy to see his son up there doing his thing, showing his gift to the world. so they're divided somewhat. >> and what is it that la toya was saying before she even saw the entire movie? some things that sound a little off, alicia. >> they were making all kinds of crazy allegations saying there were body doubles used, saying that wasn't really michael jackson. i mean, the allegations went on and on and on. sony then put out a release saying, you know what? no. this is absolutely michael jackson. he was filming this for his personal library and this is now a gift to his fans. >> and speaking of the fans, how do you think the fans are processing it? we know one of his more famous fans, liz taylor, went twitter crazy. she sent out i think 30 tweets saying you've got to see this movie.

you owe it to yourself. what do you think this is going to mean for fans? >> the fans are absolutely going to love this movie. i saw it in new york the night that it premiered and the whole movie theater was shut down. they were only showing "this is it." there were a lot of press people there but the other half was fans. the fans were clapping during the movie. they were going crazy. and as you said, liz taylor tweeted about it. the fans went out there. it's gone viral. they're tweeting, facebooking. everybody loves it. >> this is supposed to be a limited release. they've billed it that way. it's already made a ton of money. you know the business. do you think it's going to end up running longer than that or at the very least, at least come out on dvd, something? >> i think it's going to do both. a, i think it will run longer because it is making a lot of money. it's already made $22 million just in three days and absolutely there is going to be a huge dvd release with bonus scenes. this is a cash cow and i think they're going to milk it to the end. >> cash cow. we're just about out of time. remind people where this money is supposed to go. >> it's supposed to go to the children. it's going to michael jackson's

estate. at the end of the day the children are supposed to benefit from this. >> okay. alicia, thank you so much. >> my pleasure. >> i want to remind you we have a very exciting special coming up for you next. it's called "black men in the age of president obama" and i sit down with some prominent men in the african-american community including actor and author hill harper and harvard professor dr. pousant. catch each interview starting monday during the 4:00 hour and pour more of what matters, check out the november issue of "essence" magazine or logon to cnn.com/whatmatters. >> our thanks, richelle. coming up -- we'll update you on a story of a mom who died trying to win a wii system. it was a radio contest called hold your wee for a nintendo wii. it was an irresponsible contest. that's what a jury is -- basically that was their ruling as they awarded the family over $16 million. we'll talk to jennifer strange's grieving mom coming up.

ladonna redmond is on a mission. we met her two years ago right here in one of the toughest neighborhoods in chicago. it's the last place you'd expect to find a garden. but that's exactly what she showed me. what are we growing in here? >> any number of things. those are collard greens on the far aisle. >> reporter: redmond led an effort to start what she calls urban farm sites. why? because no matter how hard she tried she couldn't find any fresh produce in the neighborhood. >> if you wanted to you could buy illegal drugs. you can get access to a variety of illegal drugs. if you wanted to buy a gun you could buy a gun in this community. but if you wanted to find an organic tomato in this

community, if you didn't want to come to our urban farm site being you wouldn't be able to buy one. >> reporter: with few grocery stores nearby most people do their shopping at convenience stores like this one except they're full of chips, sugar drinks, and candy. according to a new study from the journal of pediatrics, shopping at these convenience stores is part of what's making our kids fat. researchers talked to more than 800 kids outside convenience stores and found that on average they were eating 356 empty calories at every stop. what are you guys buying in there? >> chips. >> reporter: chips? >> candy. >> reporter: but in lower income minority communities, like this one, where high blood pressure, diabetes, and obesity run rampant, redmond says we can't afford to ignore the issue. >> there has to be an insistence that healthy living and a healthy lifestyle is a must. >> reporter: so now two years after we first met her, ladonna is adding store owner to her list of professions. >> our project really tries to bring healthy lifestyles to the

hip-hop generation. >> reporter: all in the hopes she can change the tide in the ever growing storm of obesity. dr. sanjay gupta, cnn reporting. now an update on this story. huge judgment more than $16 million to a widower and his children. a young mother dies from water intoxication after drinking just lots and lots of water over a three-hour period as part of a radio station stunt. it was a contest titled hold your wee for a nintendo wii. the catch? the contestants weren't allowed to go to the restroom or vomit. that would disqualify them. the victim's husband and family attorney just overcome with emotion after the verdict. >> i'm very thankful and appreciative that the jurors took their time and that they held appropriate people accountable. >> from our perspective, we're very gratified with what the jury did. the number that they determined is by definition a fair and reasonable number.

>> now, the dee jays were fired so we want to be clear here. the dee jays were not held responsible. the parent company to the radio station held responsible. joining me to talk about this the victim's mom. nan a holst. also her attorney joining us. nina, obviously nothing can replace jennifer but what was your reaction to the verdict when it was read? >> i was very happy with the time that the jurors took in this case. they didn't rush through it. people kept asking me what's taking so long. what's taking so long. and i said, you know, they have a lot to think about. they didn't know my daughter like i knew her, like her family knew her, her friends. and each of us that testified there had to paint a picture

of jen, what kind of wonderful, outstanding, caring daughter, wife, mother that she was and hope and pray that the testimony we gave gave them some kind of feel for the type of person that jennifers was and that she never would have done anything to put her life in jeopardy to not be there to spend every day with her children that she cherished more than anything else. >> nina, do you think it was just that, that your daughter didn't realize what she was getting into, that it could be dangerous? could be fatal? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> would have never done anything to put her life in jeopardy. >> did you know she was going to be a part of this? did she talk to you about the contest beforehand? >> just briefly. she mentioned it. didn't have any details because i understood she didn't have any

details at the time. so, you know, you would think that somebody that's holding a contest or promoting something such as this would check into everything thoroughly and make sure that there were safeguards in place, that this is something that wouldn't be harmful to people. you know, just check everything out. and they just didn't do it. >> i couldn't agree more, nina. as we've covered this story. and i want to bring in roger. roger, is that what it came down to, that this station didn't monitor what their employees were doing and that they were bringing forth wi ining forth tt was so dangerous? >> well, it's a combination of not monitoring but also not even enforcing rules that they had in place, not training the on-air talent as to what the rules were to be and how they were to comply. i mean, they had specific rules not to put people in contests that are dangerous or put them at risk and not to put

contests that were in bad taste. this contest clearly violated all those rules. and we believed from the beginning this case is about responsibility and accountability and we said that at the beginning. beginning and beauty of the civil process is that we went six weeks where 12 people got all the evidence and not what people read in the newspaper or hear on sound bites on tv and they were able to assess that evidence and determine who was accountable. >> are you satisfied that the right people paid the right place and deejays end up getting fired and the station's held accountable? >> i'm very satisfied that jury found the way that they did. they listened to all the evidence, they, they fought and fought hard to, you know, keep their personal opinions out of it and just listen to what the evidence was. and 12 individual people that

didn't know intercom and didn't know my daughter found in favor of my daughter not being at all responsible for what happened to her. and that the right people were found accountable. >> well, thank you for joining us. roger, you, as well. we just wish the best for jennifer's children as they try to get past this. but, thank you, again. we'll continue this conversation after the break. stay with us.

up more suspects in the horrific homecoming gang rape. six males have now been arrested, accused of raping a 15-year-old girl for two and a half hours. four more rapists could still be out there. and what about the video and pictures? has this girl's nightmare gone viral? plus, a bitter divorce. of billion dollar proportions. the owners of the l.a. dodgers are splitting up. and you would not believe how much money the wife wants. she's demanding almost $500,000 per month. that's more than $15,000 a day. so how is this going to shake out? we'll crunch the numbers. also, too fat to kill? a man accused of murdering his former son-in-law said he couldn't do it because he's too

fat. what a fascinating defense. this guy weighs 285 pounds. i didn't realize there was a weight limit on guns. will the jury buy this new twinkie defense? another lawmaker caught with his proverbial pants down. cops say rolin corning was parked at a cemetery with a stripper, sex toys and viagra. and all this allegedly happened during his lunch break. we'll give you all the sordid details. "issues" starts now. tonight, more suspects nabbed in that horrific gang rape outside a california high school. some of the suspects are boys, ages 15 and 16. now they're charged as adults and could go to prison for life. they are accused of raping a 15-year-old girl for two and a half hours just steps from a homecoming dance. >> it's something out of a hollywood movie. it's so extremely vicious and absolutely unnecessary.

>> will the crowd of gawkers who did absolutely nothing to help this girl ever be punished. police say as many as 20 people, males, laughed, took photos, possibly even took cell phone video while this victim was being brutalized. what is being done to make sure those images are locked down forever. if they go viral, this girl will be victimized all over again. now, is the school going to take any responsibility for the lack of safety here? the victim's friend was at the dance and says school officials and police were completely negligent. >> i looked outside of the gym and i saw 12 to 15 guys sitting there with no i.d.s. the officers, not only did they not check the i.d.s of those students, those men outside the campus, but the security officers who are employed here did no job checking either. the assistant principal looked outside and actually saw those men and did nothing about it.

>> what? that's an outrage. i want to welcome my fantastic panel. judge karen mills-francis. michelle gallan. clinical psychologist. curtis sliwa, founder of the guardian angels and radio talk show host of the and criminal defense attorney. got to start with the guardian angel tonight. curtis, we have both covered so many crimes, but this one seems to have crossed some invisible line. it has generated outrage around the world because of the sheer number of males involved in this brutality. as many as ten participating, as many as 20 watching. is this not the most hideous example of a hunter/prey dynamic that is somehow developing between males and females. >> no question. it's like the gal was a pass-around pack for these guys to get their jollies off, while others were passing by back and forth, and you know with the wireless technology, with their cell phones, their wireless, taking video, taking

photographs, wanting to post it out there on the internet. and nobody did jack diddly squat, to warn, to yell, scream, evade, stop that, while the authorities inside were watching the people who were obviously celebrating and partying at the dance. you scratch your head and say obviously women under siege, this is something that was more akin to a gang initiation. and that's exactly what you saw outside, in the public, for all to see, a gang initiation with a victim. and you know these guys misused it. they should lose it. castration should be their cure. they should have kept their rocket in their pocket. >> nothing, absolutely nothing can justify what happened to this young girl. but i do want to know, as a recovering alcoholic myself, and we talk a lot about addiction here on "issues," what role alcohol may have played in this crime. the mercury news cites police as saying there was drinking among the group in this poorly-lit courtyard, "the victim consumed

a large amount of brandy while socializing and then collapsed." the paper says that's when the attack began. an investigator told us, "we're looking at toxicology reports to determine if she was drugged." my question to psychologist michelle golland, if the victim was passed out, how might that influenced her attackers psychologically? could it have made them more likely to objectify her? >> it doesn't matter to me. whether she was passed out, or resisting, these men attacked her, brutalized her, and they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. this is horrific. and it doesn't matter to me. >> but we're trying to understand, i know it may not matter to you, but if we don't understand -- okay, because otherwise, guess what, we're all part of the pornography of violence. if we just sit here and talk about this, as who, when, where, why, without getting to the

deeper why, without trying to come up with societal solutions, then we're just part of the pornography of violence. so that is why, michelle, we're trying to understand the dynamics at work here. now, curtis sliwa said maybe this was a gang initiation. i'm saying maybe they were in some way justifying their behavior psychologically, judge karen mills francis. because she was passed out. nothing excuses this. >> you know what, the basic tenants of decency, i think we need to be concerned about what's going on with our children. it bothers me that 24 people -- 24 different people from different homes and different environments could all stand there and watch while this brutalization was going on. >> right. >> i believe it's the symbols that they see of women in videos and on tv, half naked girls that are giving up their bodies for a couple of dollars.

it is the image that women aren't worth anything. >> well, guess what, you have brought me to my big issue. and we need to make this case a national wake-up call. our society is saturated in sexually charged violence. we associate masculinity with violence. we sexualize violence. teenagers are picking up on it. it's everywhere in these more error movies that are going to make millions on halloween weekend, which is coming up. it's become way more explicit. i want to cite a new study that just came out this week by the parents television council that says, incidence of violence on television against women and teenage girls is skyrocketing. okay? at rates that far exceed the overall increase in violence on television. violence, irrespective of gender on tv increased 2% from 2004 to 2009.

incidence of violence against women increased 120% during that same time. the most frequent type of violence against women on tv was beating, 29%, followed by threats of violence, 18%. shooting 11%, rape 8%, stabbing 6%, torture 2%, and violence against women resulted in death, 19% of the time. now, this is a study that just came out. it's essentially saying we are literally, tom, indoctrinating these young men who associate masculinity with sexual sadism. >> it's a two-fold problem. it's not just television. it's television in a vacuum in parenting. we have a parenting crisis in this country. look, up to close to 50% of the children now are born out of wedlock. there's a huge problem with the absence of any -- >> i don't know about the wedlock schmedlock. i don't care -- >> hold on.

>> angelina jolie is not married to brad pitt. nobody says a thing about that. >> they have millions of dollars. change the environment, put them in the inner city with the absence of any sort of fatherly figure -- >> this has nothing to do with the inner cities. >> i don't know anything about these kids. >> okay. >> we're talking about the problem in general. it's not just television. kids can manage what they see on television if they're guided correctly at home. >> "the new york times" just said last week the average american family isn't the cleavers anymore. the average american family is usually headed by a single parent. and that's usually a woman. black, white, asian, latino, across the board. >> right. and there's a lot of problems in our culture because of that. i'm not talking -- >> i don't think that that's the reason. i think it's because we don't teach kids what they need to learn these days, what we teach them is precisely what they need to avoid. >> and that is parenting. >> we need to -- >> i never watched this kind of violence.

i remember when i went to see clockwork orange as a teenager and i walked out of it -- there was a sadistic scene. that would have been child's play today. the kids today would laugh at that. i was horrified. i walked out. okay? >> jane, it's one thing -- >> this is monumentally greater when we were kids. >> we're also not speaking about what public schools need to do and funding in mental health professionals and teaching exactly what you're talking about, jane. conflict resolution, what to do. >> absolutely. we're going to talk about that in a second. as we try to dissect this nightmare. plus, does murder have a weight limit? one man claims he couldn't have killed his son-in-law because he's too fat to kill. but first, a girl raped for two and a half hours, nobody does a thing. where was security? how can anyone feel safe going to that school from now on? >> disrupted the school's morale

greatly. including my own. i am friends with the girl. when i started here, i felt extremely unsafe due to the lack of police officers and security officers.

what you're seeing is people won't call the police because of fear of retaliation. particularly young people won't come forward and call the police because they're afraid of what's going to happen to them. so they develop a culture that they're not going to report any crimes, even something as horrendous as this. >> that was a criminologist describing the no snitching mentality out there today. part of the reason the gang rape was able to go on for two and a half hours. in front of a huge crowd of gawkers instead of using their cell phones to call police, they used them to snap photos and possibly record videos of this nightma nightmare. that is how numb these teens are to violence, especially violence against women. curtis sliwa, you are out there

on the streets dealing with the teenagers today. what is it about this whole no-snitching phenomenon that we're seeing? we've got another case we're going to talk about in a second. >> jane, it is part of the gang culture. more importantly, it's part of the hip-hop monsters that they project in their rap lyrics, in reggae tone and reggae music. constantly saying snitches get stitches and end up in ditches. you should have window shades on your eyes and zipper on your mouth. never rat anyone out no matter what the crime. if you're the victim, instead of letting the police know, just get a gun and try to settle the score. i'll let you know, there's another case that took place, roman polanski, got a lot of attention throughout california. an adult male, feeds qua lewds and booze to a 13-year-old girl, raped her, flees. look at all the trendoids, starlets coming to his defense. what kind of message are we sending to kids out there that

you can do this and get away with it. >> we know there's a double standard of justice in this country. we know the rich and famous and powerful get away with crimes that the poor and powerless don't. and that is a fact. i mean, anybody who ever sat in court waiting for a celebrity case as i have, and seeing how the public defenders will shoot through 20, 30, 40 cases, convicting and sending away people who don't even know what's going on because they don't know the lingo used by these people, and you see the celebrity case come in and -- >> i don't buy that it was about the snitching. >> i don't either. >> i do not buy that. because any of those boys or men could have walked away and called 911 anonymously. they could have found a security guard. they could have done any one of -- numerous things. >> let me say this, okay? there's a couple of ideas here. we're trying to figure out what was going through the minds of these teens who participated in the violation of this girl. now, it could be, is it possible

that it could be a case of bystander effect? sociologists say the more people who watch an event, the less likely somebody is to take action. we can remember the most famous case was -- let me just finish this -- the bystander effect was illustrated in the murder of kitty genovese. she was stabbed to death in 1974. there were several people who heard her screaming for police. nobody called police. and that's the bystander effect, was coined because of that case. anything to do with this, judge karen? >> i think that we're trying to be politically correct here. you started out, jane, talking about the -- >> i'm not trying to be politically correct. >> but you started out talking about the rise in violence against women. we talk about these girls that are being picked up off the streets every day by men. these women that are being picked up every day off the streets by men. the fact that a woman is more likely to be killed by a man than she is to be killed by a woman.

it's a fact that 24 boys, young men, can sit around and watch a girl being brutalized. what has happened. we fought 100 years for women's rights. the right to be equal. now we need to fight for our right to be safe. >> that's why i talk about a war on women in this country. it seems like every week there is a case of juvenile violence that's more hideous than the last one. i mean, i want to go to this case that we had recently. the cell phone video of darion albert's fatal beating in chicago that prompted national outrage. the 16-year-old boy was pummeled and stomped to death by a mob. this was last month. dozens of people watched. three teens are charged in the attack. if not for the video, who knows if anybody would have been caught, because the snitching factor was at work here, as this kid was pummeled and brutalized. there was another case in

florida where a young boy was set on fire because he snitched, and he told basically the adults about the fact that one of the kids was trying to steal his dad's bike. and he was set on fire. so i don't understand what this snitching thing is. tom, weigh in. you're the former prosecutor. >> absolutely. the problem isn't simply violence against women. it's not simply television. it's a culture of youth violence. and that violence derives from the lack of proper parenting. i'm not talking about simply single parenthood. i'm a single parent myself. i know what it's about. but you have a whole generation of young, mostly inner city, but it's rural and suburban, too, of young males and young women who are being raised without any sort of effective role models in their life, without any sort of effective parenting. and there could be plenty of single parenting that goes on out there. >> it is ruled as well. there was a case the other day, i think it was in some rural state, very, very rural area, i

think it was new hampshire where these kids came in and they beat this mother to death with an ax and then they set on the daughter with an ax. and that was in the rural wilds of -- >> it goes on everywhere. kids turn to street violence, street gangs to find a family. they're looking for a street family. >> of course. they travel in packs. got to leave it right there, panel. sorry. we're out of time. we're going to stay on top of this. we've got to. you know, societal pressure comes in all forms, whether it's to drug, alcohol, violence, even food. i struggled with so many addictions myself. i'm sharing my battle with alcohol and other substances in my new book "i want." you can order a copy at cnn.com. or go to your local bookstore. i want to thank my fantastic panel for that healthy debate. a hefty defense, a man accused of murdering his former son-in-law. he said he couldn't do it because he's too fat.

and a super expensive divorce battle brews between dodgers' owner and wife, jamie. this is so ugly, and you won't believe some of the details. we're going to tell you after the break.

too fat to kill. a man accused of murdering his former son-in-law says he couldn't do it, because he's too fat. oh, really? this guy weighs 285 pounds. i didn't realize there was a weight limit on guns. will the jury buy this new twinkie defense? another lawmaker caught with his proverbial pants down. cops say he was parked in a cemetery with a stripper, sex toys and viagra. we'll give you all the sordid details. just when you think you've heard it all. a new jersey jury is being asked to swallow a super-sized defense, 62-year-old edward is accused of murdering his former son-in-law. he said he couldn't have done

it, no way, no how. why? because he's too fat to kill. i'm not making this up. in just a moment i'll be cross-examining his lawyer about this new variation on the twinkie defense. prosecutors say the 300 approximately pound man wanted his former son-in-law dead because of tensions between the accused killer and his victim were strained after a bitter divorce settlement between his daughter and the victim. on the stand, he nixed that theory. >> did you care about him one way or the other? >> no, sir. >> did you murder paul? >> no, i did not. >> according to the cops, the victim was talking on his cell phone when he was shot six times. his fiance was on the other end of the line. this clip from abc news. >> suddenly he started to scream. he said, oh, oh no.

and then he stopped speaking. >> the weighty question for the jury, could this obese man manage to do a flight of stairs, clean up the crime scene and then hustle off in a quick getaway driving 21 hours to his mom's house? if the jury says yes he could do that, even though he's overweight, he could get up to 20 years in the slammer, where i hear the food ain't so great. so a lot is at stake here. we do have serious matters. tipping the scales of justice. back with my fantastic panel and joining me now, walter representing edward ates, as in i ates too much. your client is accused of shooting the victim with a gun. how is his weight a factor in his ability to pick up a gun and fire a weapon is this. >> it's not just his weight. it's everything that goes along with being morbidly obese. diabetes, hypertension, sleep apnea, physical movement restrictions. he was 62 at the time, 5'8" and

almost 300 pounds. the killer shot upstairs and fired two shots, straight into the victim. the coroner testified to this. he then put four more shots straight in. never missed. a man of ates' body mass, going up four stairs, is going to have some heavy breathing. he's going to be going -- and that gun's going to move. to hold it perfectly straight and not miss seven shots is impossible. >> can i say something. you're a good attorney. if i ever get in trouble, i'm calling you. >> but the doctors say -- >> i'm calling you, my friend. >> we have medical testimony, unrefuted, unrefuted internist. and this isn't subjective. ates spent three nights in the hospital tested overnight for sleep disorder, sleep apnea. >> you say he was too sleep --

judge karen? >> this is michelle. >> oh, michelle, okay. somebody. >> thank you. we also know that people who are small and weak can lift up cars when they get an adrenaline rush. our bodies take over in moments of stress, fight or flight, and will do what we need to do to get done. and literally this could -- i find it very interesting. >> like sumo wrestlers -- >> the doctor said exactly no. the doctor addressed exactly that issue. the doctor said, you can lift up a car, an old lady can lift up a car to free her child. but she cannot hold the car up for 21 hours. >> isn't there somehow evidence against the defendant in this case, isn't there some computer evidence that he was searching on how to commit the perfect murder, how to pick a lock on a sliding glass door? don't they also have some wiretaps where he's talking to

his sister and his mother and saying, let's make sure we all have our stories straight? isn't there some evidence that his sister lied to the police about where he was the day before? and his 83-year-old mother -- >> okay. walter, answer those -- answer briefly. >> circumstantial evidence. there's no eyewitness, no fingerprints, no dna. there's very good circumstantial evidence. there's also medical testimony, unrefuted, that he physically couldn't have done it. and there's an unrefuted eyewitness who saw ed's car in louisiana a half hour after the murder in new jersey. could not have happened. >> i want to say one thing, please. he's got good enough facilities to drive 21 hours to visit his mother, okay? and drive a car but he doesn't have the facilities to hold a gun and shoot it? give me a break. >> hold on, hold on. we have heard of the abuse excuse, but now we're hearing the obese excuse.

it's used in defending edward ates, as in i ates too much in charges he killed his ex-son-in-law. here's a clip from abc. listen to this. >> in bright daylight in august, the fat old man's running and nobody sees him. >> i find that very difficult in someone with obstructive sleep apnea who's morbidly obese. >> curtis, guardian angels, this man is a marksman with military experience. >> no, no, no. >> yeah. whoa, whoa, that's not true? >> not true. just not true. >> that's what's being reported. go ahead, curtis. >> jane, fat man's not nimble, fat man's not quick, we know fat man can't jump over the candlestick. but fat man can take that gun and go -- that much i know. i got shot by a guy who was 325 pounds.

and he aeroerateed me with hollow point bullets. >> i think you make a good argument right there. it's not just a matter of being too obese to carry out this crime. ates said he wasn't there because he was visiting his mama in another state. the prosecutor was not buying that either. listen to this. >> how often did you visit your mother who you cared for? >> i visited for about 30 minutes since 1999. >> so from '99 to '06 you spent 30 minutes with your mother? >> approximately, yes. >> all right. that sounds kind of like the old kitchen sink strategy, walter. i mean, if the jury doesn't believe the obese excuse, no motive, and if we don't believe that, he had an alibi. what about the evidence as we've been talking about here that he allegedly asked his sister to lie for him? >> that evidence is very, very contradicted by the next-door neighbor, who says no, i saw the

car there on wednesday. let me make a point. this is totally different than a twinkie defense. dwingy defense in all of that is, i did it, but here's why. this is i didn't do it. i physically could not have done it. >> wasn't there some evidence also that -- >> hold it. one at a time. >> wasn't there evidence that when he was in louisiana visiting his mother that same year, that there was a snake in the grass and he shot him and killed him with one shot? >> hold on. hold on. we've been talking -- let's examine these kind of kookie defenses. we heard about the old twinkie defense. and that's now become sort of a code phrase for any kind of wacky legal defense strategy. it was a real tactic used in the defense of dan white, who was accused of assassinating harvey milk and san francisco mayor george moscone in the late '70s. white was convicted of voluntary manslaughter. ronnie zamora's lawyer said he had tv intoxication from

watching violent shows like kojak. and that's why he shot his elderly neighbor. the jury didn't buy that and convicted him. this is the strangest defense of all. a woman wanted in a string of defendants who claimed the movie "matrix" turned them into murderers. but the twinkie-esk matrix defense convinced the jury to find her not guilty by reason of insanity. i think walter, if your client gets off, this is really going to be a watershed moment and going to set one for the record books here. >> again, this is very different. those people said they did the act. they had an excuse. this is a case where we say the act was not committed. very different. >> i actually think it's also -- i mean, people who are overweight should be offended by this. i mean, to say he couldn't go up four steps? i personally -- my father is overweight and has diabetes and

all those things. and i think if he was vengeful and angry, that could happen. i mean, i just think it's offensive to people who are overweight, who are -- who still could be healthy and still agile, that you use this as an excuse. >> well, i think it's -- >> it's not an excuse, it's a fact. >> we should eat healthy and stay in shape. perhaps that is the lesson to take away from it. walter, you are one fantastic lawyer. big thanks to our entire fantastic panel. six black students who were denied entry into a nightclub reached an agreement with the owners of a nightclub. but the students were not after money. see what they achieved instead. it's pretty amazing. cops say a lawmaker ended up in a cemetery with a stripper. maybe he should just pack his lunch next time. we'll have all the really, really bizarre and salacious details coming up in a moment.

let us meet today's winner, tyrone from houston, texas. before getting sober, he was known as killa. and eventually landed in jail. he drove a stolen car to rehab and he now celebrates 16 years clean. way to go, tyrone. tyrone founded the bonita house

of hope, a drug and alcohol rehab center. what a fantastic story of recovery. thank you, everyone, for all of your e-mails and ireports. we've gotten such uplifting stories, something like 100 a day coming in. the stories of recovery that we're going to continue featuring them here on "issues." go to cnn.com/jane. you could win a copy of my new book and have the chance to win a trip to new york city and come and hang out here on the set with me. i will show you a very good time. but a sober time. all right. cops say a south carolina lawmaker took his lunch break and ended up in the car with a stripper and sex toys and viagra. we're going to take a look at that story in a second. but first, "top of the block" tonight. taking the high road in the fight against racism. here on "issues," we cover the

story of the six black college students who were recently denied entry into a chicago nightclub. now we can tell you that those six young men scored a big victory. instead of suing the company, the students will join together with the bar to fight discrimination. the club has agreed to apologize to the students. the club owners are also joining the students in a rally against discrimination, and the club will take part in four, count them, four fund-raisers. it's refreshing to see these six young students come up with a creative solution that will help prevent something like this from happening again. instead of suing the company to get a quick payday, they're actually turning this fiasco into a teachable moment. i think this is a 21st century way of treating the problem. this is tonight's "top of the block." whoa, this one is a shocking scandal. sexkapades in the cemetery of all places. a politician caught with his proverbial pants down in a

graveyard. with him, an 18-year-old stripper. deputy assistant attorney general roland corning was on his lunch break when he met up with a stripper from the platinum plus gentleman's club. a cop spotted the pair on a deserted road at the edge of an empty cemetery. the cops searched corning's car. straight out of the police report, inside the car, the cop found viagra, and several vibrating sex toys. corning's explanation? i always keep them with me just in case. what a practical guy. the scandal has already sparking the late-night jokes. listen to this clip from nbc's "the jay leno show." >> well, i love this story. a 66-year-old deputy u.s. attorney general in south carolina, home of governor mark sanford, you know him, the guy's name is roland corning. he got fired after police discovered him at a cemetery with an 18-year-old stripper, a bag of sex toys and a bottle of viagra. to be fair, people do grieve differently, okay? okay. everybody grieves differently.

some bring flowers, some -- you know, we all -- yes. we all grieve in our own way. >> that's pretty funny. as if this story couldn't get any tackier, there's another twist. the officer realized his wife worked with corning in the attorney general's office. so, hey, honey, he calls her from the scene. she spoke to her boss and allegedly told her husband, let him go. corning and the stripper then went on their merry way. was this an attempt to cover it up? corning was soon fired. police say they did nothing wrong. even though in some published reports this teenage stripper is being described as a prostitute. roland corning was a republican south carolina legislator in the '80s and '90s. what is it with the politicians and sex scandals. straight back out to my expert panel.

also joining in, meg kinnard in columbia, south carolina. dare we ask what else is happening with this case? >> well, jane, i tell you, it's definitely been -- it's definitely been an interesting year here in south carolina. one thing we're waiting on now is the dash camera video, and those phone calls that you mentioned that go along with this police report. that we got from the columbia police department. like you said, corning's out of a job. and we still have a few questions that we'd like him to answer. but he hasn't called us back. >> so judge mills, judge karen, one of the questions is, should the cops have treated this differently. i don't know if it's appropriate, i certainly don't think it is to make a phone call to your wife when you find out the person you stop in a car works with her. and take direction from her about what to do about the case. >> you know what, it's totally improper. the attorney general is the chief prosecutor for the state.

the chief legal officer for the state. and there are codes of conduct. they are supposed to avoid the appearance of inpropriety. i read in one report, the first thing he did when the cop came up to the window is flash his badge, trying to use his influence. what's going on in south carolina? i love south carolina, but they have problems with the governor. remember, he was supposed to be somewhere on the appalachian trail and he was in argentina with his mistress. now the chief prosecuting officer for the state is with an 18-year-old hooker in a cemetery? >> and this is also very embarrassing, because this south carolina attorney general, in other words, this guy's boss, has tried to make a name for himself cracking down on online prostitution. so once again, it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

curt curtis? >> in south carolina, you go to the trunk of the car, the black and decker toolbox, and the viagra, too. this way it's one-stop shopping, whenever you need it, it's available to you in south carolina. >> unbelievable. >> all right. stay right there. more in a moment. @@@@@@@@