breaking news tonight. live, ohio. cops raid the home of a convicted rapist accused of yet another sex attack. inside his three-story cleveland home, seasoned detectives stunned. women's bodies hidden throughout. bodies on every floor of the home. even stuffed in crawl spaces. bombshell tonight. our prediction last night, unfortunately, comes true. even more women's bodies discovered. body count so far -- ten dead

women. all hidden in the home of former marine anthony sowell. investigators now prepare to tear down the walls, literally scouring every square inch of sowell's three-story cleveland home in search of even more victims. tonight, unsuspecting neighbors in shock over an alleged serial killer living amongst them. >> today, this morning our homicide unit along with the cuyahoga county coroner's office, went back to the scene, which has been secured ever since day one. during the course of their investigation throughout the day we have discovered approximately four more bodies in the back yard and a skull in a bucket in the basement. the skull was discovered wrapped in a paper bag in a bucket in the basement. >> dead bodies on every level of the home, including stuffed in the crawl space. my prediction -- there will be more. >> ten bodies found at the home

of convicted rapist anthony sowell. the dig continues, as he put it, as they continue to search. >> it appears this man has an insatiable appetite that he had to fill. that's how it appears. and everything's right there at that location. >> people did complain about over and over again that that place really, really smelled and he reeked. but they thought it was that sausage factory running behind him or the fact he's just some semi-homeless bum who doesn't take a shower very often. they just discounted it. >> we did not have information concerning the smells, et cetera. so as far as the police dropped the ball, i wouldn't say we dropped the ball. we were very diligent in what we did. and breaking tonight live, the florida panhandle. a close-knit community reeling after a newborn baby girl sleeping in the same bedroom as her parents vanishes without a trace. halloween. the story becomes even more distorted. but tonight we want to know who took baby shannon.

>> investigators in the panhandle of florida need your help. they're looking for a 7-month-old girl who disappeared and may be in danger. >> cops say shannon's parents told investigators shannon slept in the same bedroom as they did. shannon allegedly snatched from that bedroom sometime between 3:00 and 11:00 a.m. on halloween. >> the sheriff said nothing indicates she was abducted. but he also said she "didn't crawl or walk away." >> the child obviously did not walk or crawl out of the home. i don't understand why the police are saying there's no foul play. you have a 7-month-old baby lying there asleep in the home. now, she's gone. >> they seem to be pointing fingers directly at the parents. >> neighbors now speaking out, saying they saw a gray van near shannon's home that night. investigators expanding the search area for a 7-month-old

girl who they say did not walk or crawl away. >> good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. breaking news tonight live, ohio. cops raid the home of a convicted rapist accused of yet another sex attack. inside his three-story cleveland home, seasoned detectives stunn stunned. women's bodies hidden throughout. bodies, dead women on every floor of the home. some of them even stuffed into the crawl spaces. bombshell tonight. our prediction last night unfortunately comes true. even more women's bodies discovered in the last 24 hours. body count so far, ten dead women that we know of. all hidden in the home of former marine anthony sowell. >> breaking news coming to us

from cleveland. more discoveries at the home of a rape suspect. >> we have discovered approximately four more bodies in the back yard and a skull in a bucket in the basement. >> that would raise the total to ten bodies found under this man's home. this is almost starting to reach jeffrey dahmer-type proportions. >> also today the suspect, anthony sowell, approximately 4:00 this afternoon, he was charged with five counts of aggravated murder on john does at this point right now. he's also charged with rape, kidnapping, and felonious assault, an initial complaint that led to us that house two days ago. >> six bodies have been found at the home of a convicted rapist anthony sowell. well, this morning four more bodies were found. so now we're up to ten. >> six missing women found dead. there's going to be more. there are going to be more than six women. >> we continue just to dig it up just to make sure we covered all our bases. as we were doing that, we discovered four more bodies in

the back yard. the dig continues. >> the dig continues in the home of former marine anthony sowell. so far police have excavated and found ten dead women. out to dan haggerty joining us from wews, outside sowell's home right now, cleveland suburbs, dan haggerty, thank you for being with us. >> thanks. >> they found four more dead bodies so far. how did they not see four dead women yesterday? where were the bodies hidden? >> well, they've been digging. we've seen them all day in the back yard. of course, you know as soon as they start finding something they start throwing the tarps up and keeping the camera lenses from seeing exactly what was going on there. but when i showed up early this morning, they started finding stuff. the tarp started going up. and i'll tell you, i'd say 100 or so people have been gathering on this street here.

and right behind me -- the backhoe back there. so they were doing some pretty serious excavate back there. but you should have seen the looks on the people's faces on the streets here every time you saw the medical examiner's -- back down that street to put yet another body in the van. you've been saying it. four more bodies as well as a skull that they found in the basement. that makes ten bodies total. also, anthony sowell is going to be arraigned tomorrow. again, five counts of aggravated murder. as well as the rape, felonious assault, and kidnapping. that was from back in september. and that's what actually brought police to the home just on thursday -- looking for him. he wasn't there. but they found the bodies instead. >> everybody, we are taking some hits on our satellite. joining us there outside sowell's home right now where the dig is continuing for even more dead women, dan haggerty joining us from wews. dan, again, thank you for being

with us. this is something i don't understand, dan. the woman said she had been raped by sowell back in september. why were police just getting there in november? >> well, i don't want to speculate to what police were doing in the meantime. i assume they were collecting evidence to put together a hard case in order to come here and make the arrest. we know he was a sex offender. he registered. he was a tier 3 sex offender. so he actually had to go to the sheriff -- tell them where he was living, where he was working every 90 days. we believe it was sometime during the summer they stopped over here and did a surprise check with him and the sheriff's office didn't report anything spsht suspicious to police at the time. the woman who was assaulted in september according to the police report went to police then. it took them a series of weeks to put together a case, i assume. and that's when they came here to serve the warrant. they went inside looking for sowell and found only two bodies in the attic that were so badly

decomposed they couldn't even tell the sex at the time. and a shallow grave in the basement. obviously, this story continues to get worse as the days go on. >> dan haggerty with us, wews, joining us in front of the home of anthony sowell, former marine. he did his time as a marine. he did several years. i believe five to seven years with the marines. he was honorably discharged. he was stationed in north carolina and california, as i recall. then, after he got out of the marines, he did 15 years behind bars on a rape. i don't know why he was walking the streets. apparently, he did his time. they didn't have any more holds on him. so they had to let him go. and this is what happened. correct me if i'm wrong, jean casarez, legal correspondent joining us from in session. jean, didn't he just get out, and wasn't it 2005 he got out on

a 15-year stint in the pen for rape? >> he was convicted of two counts of attempted rape, 1990 through 2005 released. so there's been four years now, nancy, that he has been living in that home, a home that's owned by his stepmother. and the four bodies that were just found in the last 24 hours, nancy, were in the back yard. they were under the earth. they were in graves back there. >> to stacy newman, our producer on the story. stacy, it's my prediction that they will find -- that at the beginning -- and i'm using 2005, when he got out of the pen, as the beginning. he was more careful in hiding the bodies. but then going on ten bodies he started getting careless and did not hide them as well. tell me what you know, stacy newman, about the neighbors. it's my understanding they noticed something bizarre and they complained to their city councilman. >> this is a big bone much of

contention tonight, nancy. neighbors are reporting they smelled a foul odor for years in this neighborhood including a city councilman that called the health inspector wanting to know where the stench is coming from. now, there is a sausage company in this neighborhood, sausage. everyone believed the smell was coming from the sausage company. fast-forward to today. uh-oh. coming from decomposing bodies inside sowell'shaggerty, joinin outside of sowell's home -- everybody, we're taking your calls live. this is a stunning turn of events. seasoned detectives go in the home on a rape charge. they have now found in the last 48 hours ten dead women there in the chicago suburbs. and i guarantee you, haggerty, if they go and they look at california and north carolina, where he was stationed with the marines, there are going to be women there that have never been found, never been accounted for. dan haggerty, who are these ten

women so far? >> well, police haven't said. we don't know at this point right now. but we know there are a whole lot of people who are showing up in this neighborhood, dozens of missing women and their families and their loved ones that have been showing up here and trying to figure out if their loved ones are one of the bodies inside this home. >> as soon as the incident took place and the s.w.a.t. unit made entry and discovered the two decomposed bodies on the third floor, we put zone car personnel in the house and we secured the location. but at no time did we ever leave the scene. there was always police personnel on point to make sure everything was secure. >> send us your favorite family photos for our upcoming ng family album. go to cnn.com/nancygrace.

every night hln's nancy grace brings you the real drama straight from the courtroom. >> every lawyer has a different version of what they would think justice is. >> tnt mondays. "raising the bar" is all new.

>> to me justice is a jury rendering a verdict that speaks the truth. >> do you trust him? because that's what this case comes down to. >> stephen bochco's "raising the bar." mondays at 10:00 on tnt. and pick up nancy's new book, "the eleventh victim," available now wherever books are sold. yellow crime tape stretched around the corner from 12205 imperial avenue today. cleveland police brought in heavy machinery to literally help them dig for evidence in the back yard of the house where 50-year-old anthony sowell lived. police officers and a team from the coroner's office watched to see what was unearthed. and by early afternoon it was clear they had found something. experts wearing masks and special suits scurried around the house where just days ago police discovered six dismembered and decomposing bodies. >> we already have half a dozen dead women in his home that we know of? and i'm predicting there's going to be more? >> and now five days after that

gruesome discovery another two body bags were loaded into two coroner vehicles and taken away. and police believe there could be more. >> we have discovered approximately four more bodies in the back yard. >> the face of a suspected mass murderer. >> the suspect, anthony sowell, approximately 4:00 this afternoon he was charged with five counts of aggravated murder. he was also charged with rape, kidnapping, and felonious assault. >> as we go to air, the dig continues in the cleveland suburbs. we now know of ten dead women found in anthony sowell's three-story home. including the back yard. we predict there will be more. joining me outside sowell's home this evening, dan haggerty with wews. dan, where in the home were the women hidden? >> well, they were hidden pretty much all over the house, nancy. there were some in the attic. that's where they were first discovered. two bodies that were so badly

decomposed, we were told, that they couldn't even determine a sex right away. they also found bodies in a crawl space below some stairs. they found a skull inside of a bucket in the basement. they also found bodies buried outside behind the home. and we just saw police leaving with some of their bigger equipment, they had a backhoe there. they were just pulling that out. i'm sure they're starting to shut things down slowly for the night. but they're going to be out tomorrow looking for more. >> now, you said that the bodies were found in the back yard. you're also telling me that families of missing women across cleveland are now gathering outside the home, wondering if their daughter, their mother, their sister, their wife are one of these women. >> well, you know what? for the past several months i know of a couple big stories we've had around here since around springtime, april and may. there have been posters looking for missing women. and these are all ages. these are women in their late teens all the way to in their

40s that you've seen in convenience stores, that we saw at different gas stations. these posters looking for these women. well, now all of a sudden they're ten bodies showing up at this house in this neighborhood where a lot of these women were known to live, were known to be at times, and these families are showing up asking, you know, is this my daughter? like you said, is this my mother? >> can you imagine standing on the other side of that yellow crime scene tape wanting to know every time they pull out a gurney with a woman's body covered in a sheet, is that a daughter? is that my mother? >> hundreds of people. and it started over the weekend. it started on thursday and people started showing up here. i've been here through most of it, and there have been people here non-stop day and night waiting for answers. >> to pat drobrown, criminal profiler, author of "killing for sport." here's the deal, pat. he typically used public transportation. we know that.

and therefore, he could have a cache of bodies elsewhere. they don't all have to be in his home. how do we know this is where he started? he could have started out meeting women on the other side of town, women in fields where typically they are dumped in open fields or in dumpsters. the only way now to determine if those women are connected is through possible dna. but what do you think about changing an m.o.? >> well, nancy, you're absolutely correct. sometimes we lean too heavily on the m.o. has to be the same on and on and on. but that's not true. what will happen is he'll do what's convenient for him. so originally if he was out walking around maybe going through a park and sees a jogger go by he might have grabbed her and done that but then one time he found there was a pigeon walking through his neighborhood he said want some malt liquor? woman says sure. she comes in, she's dead. he thinks that worked. but then he starts a new trend. but it's only because it works. >> it has worked.

now nearly a dozen dead bodies. unleave the lawyers. raymond giudice, atlanta. christopher immellish, washington, d.c. raymond giudice, insanity is not going to work. he hid these bodies, he continued working. he was discharged from the marines with an honorable discharge. and don't even say intoxication. we know that was his m.o. voluntary intoxication not a defense. >> that's correct. and i agree with you completely. he will have a clean mental bill of health from the marines. remarkably, prison officials found him to be a model prisoner during those 15 years. so he has no history of mental health issues that would lead to a winnable insanity defense. >> okay. so i'm not hiring giudice as my lawyer if that's what he's got to say. what's your defense? >> it's got to be insanity because there's nothing else.

seasoned detectives go into a three-story home, cleveland area, to find at least six dead bodies. all women. we are predicting more. >> do i believe there's more bodies? i don't know at this time. what we're going to continue to do is search the property until we're totally satisfied it is totally clean. that's why we will continue overnight with the excavating. tomorrow we will come back with the fire department and look in the walls, ceilings, wherever we need to look, to confirm that in fact there is nothing else there. >> joining me outside former marine anthony sowell's home there in the cleveland suburbs, from wews, dan haggerty.

dan, again, thank you for being with us this evening. i understand that the neighborhood said when they would walk by the home they could smell a stench. is that true? >> yes, it is true. and it lasted for some say months. others say years. and they describe it after the fact as the smell of death, of rotting flesh, of dead bodies. keep in mind, though, right next door to anthony sowell's house there is a factory that packages pork products. so many people thought that the smell might have been coming from there. now, i went in there today and talked to the owner of that place, and she says that that business has been there for 60 years. she's been working there for 35 years. and it never smelled like that. there were times during the summer on hot days where she couldn't even work in her office, she had to leave. so they actually inspected the sewer system outside. they fixed that. it didn't seem to cut down on the smell, either. but you know, some people said

that they were in the neighborhood and didn't smell anything. >> we will not know until we identify the victims and understand their way of life, how they existed in the community.

the stench of death so strong neighbors gagged whenever they went past this house. well, now we're finding out the guy who lives there is a convicted rapist. why didn't anyone notice? >> what happened today when we went back to continue our investigation, we also took some dogs with us, cadaver dogs. they weren't successful because of the wind. but we also had a backhoe, and we continued just to dig it up just to make sure we covered all our bases. as we were doing that, we discovered four more bodies in

the back yard. >> 50-year-old suspect. his name is anthony sowell. he served 15 years for rape before moving into that house in 2005. >> police found the bodies during an investigation into separate rape allegations. a woman said he attacked her in that house september 22nd. >> the bodies may have been there for weeks, months, possibly years. >> what we're seeing is these men that are on these sexual registries are -- >> if you are just joining us, a stunning series of events out of cleveland suburbs. police go to the home, raid the home of a convicted rapist who was back on the streets, now charged with another rape, and instead of finding evidence in that rape they find instead six dead bodies. it is now mounting to nearly a dozen dead women. in and around his home. they are now excavating his back yard. are there more?

put money on it. joining us from outside the home,home of former marine anthony sowell, wews's dan haggerty. dan haggerty, take me back to the very beginning. how did this unfold? >> well, we'll start on thursday, when police first got here. it was two bodies. then yesterday. then this morning. we wake up thinking it's six bodies. four more bodies are taken out today. now it's ten bodies, including a skull that was found in the basement. right now anthony sowell charged with five -- with five counts, rather, of aggravated murder. and you mentioned, he's also charged with rape, felonious assault, and kidnapping from an incident back in september. and that's why police came here on thursday. they came to serve a warrant for those charges. when they got here, he wasn't here, anthony sowell. they went into the home, and that's when they found the initial two bodies in the attic and the one shallow grave in the

basement. but as they continue to search, they continue to look through the house, they continue to dig in the back yard, they continue to find more. >> and joining me right now, dr. evelyn minaya. she is a medical doctor. but doctor, how can they tell that the three dead women in the attic were some of the first victims, at least in this burial ground, anyway? >> that's a very good question. and the thing is that it's the decomposition. remember, they couldn't even identify that these women were actually women. and it just behooves me, i can't understand how can you not smell that stench. this is not just one person. this is exactly ten bodies in different stages of decomposition. how can you not smell that? how can you not investigate it a little bit better? so that's how you know that the person in the attic definitely was probably one of the first victims and then, you know, going outside, depending upon what phase of decomposition that they were in. we're going to get all of that information as the investigation goes on. >> exactly.

joining me, dr. evelyn minaya out of new york. and of course the corpses in the back yard may be even more well preserved because they have been buried and kept from the elements, kept from the fresh air. out to the lines, rachel in illinois. hi, rachel. >> caller: hi, nancy. thanks for taking my call. i have so many questions. so i'm going to be real quick. the woman that allegedly fell out the window, when did that actually happen? >> okay. to jean casarez, legal correspondent, in session. you have studied the chronology, the time of events here, jean casarez. what happened when the woman came out the window? >> i think this is the 1990 incident that actually resulted in the conviction and made him a sex offender. >> right. >> the modus operandi is so similar to awful these. she was actually sitting on a love seat with him. she was a neighborhood woman. he then starts to strangle her. she fights for her life.

he then begins to sexually assault her. she ran. she was able to get away. unlike allegedly the others. >> so jean, was she pushed out the window, or did she jump to save her own life? >> what she said to police was he actually fell asleep after he bound her and sexually assaulted her, she was able to take a rag out of her mouthar, unbind herself. she was too scared to go out the door, she thought that would make noise, so she went out the window. >> oh, jean. oh, jean, i did not know that detail. so he bound her, stuck a rag in her mouth, sexually assaulted her. and it's my -- let me go to stacy newman on this. is his m.o. that he drinks heavily during these attacks? is that why he nodded off to sleep after the rape? >> exactly. and we also know he has an alleged history of drug abuse as well, nancy. also, i want to tell you that most of these victims, of the first six bodies that were found, were strangled. which meshes with the fact that

all these other allegations of these attacks he also strangled these women, or tried to choke them as well. >> back to dan haggerty joining us outside the home of former marine anthony sowell, where bodies are still being excavated in the back yard. were the women clothed, dan haggerty? >> we don't know. we don't know that. those types of details, exactly what they were finding back there, the biggest detail we received was that they found a skull in the basement. as far as the condition of a lot of these bodies or even the sex of most of them at this point, we're still trying to wait to hear from investigators. we do know this, though. it seems like every time they go into this house they find something more. they find more. so today -- or tomorrow, rather, they're coming in here with the fire department, and they're going to tear through this place wall to wall and make sure there's nothing left to be found. >> well, if he's hiding dead bodies, dead women in the attic and the crawl sparks the basement, the back yard, i could

not exclude the walls themselves. and of course we remember in the recent case of yale medical student annie le, she was hidden in the wall. i want to go out to paul binzone, he is a former sergeant of phoenix police department. he's with childhelp.gorg. he's an expert in his field. paul, what do you think of the possibility that there are other burial grounds of anthony sowell's? we know that he frequently uses the bus. what does that mean? nobody would be able to identify a car or get a car tag if he were frequenting an area of town where he could pick up women coming in and out of bars. i once had a serial killer that would pick up women coming in and out of the bus station, the rapid transit station. he would say hey, you want to go have a drink with me, you want to go have dinner? and they would go have dinner, then never be seen again. he had women buried all over town. >> it would be irresponsible to think that that's the only place

where there are going to be victims. depending on -- if you look at the time frame of when he was released tofrom prison to when they finally realized what he was up to, this is horrific. the likelihood there are victims in other places, missing people who were never recovered and no one knows their whereabouts is extremely high. so you cannot keep your scope limited to that home. you have to -- >> absolutely. and also, paul penzone, what about my theory that you don't just start murdering out of the blue? i'm just wondering if either, a, after he did 15 years in the pen on rape, that he started killing his rape victims so they could not testify at trial or go to police or, b, has he been doing this for many, many years, which would include missing women in north carolina and california where he was stationed as a marine? what do you think about it, penzone? >> i think you're spot on because he's predisposed for violence and predisclosed for sexual violence. this didn't just happen overnight.and the victims we see with the decomposition over years obviously shows it's been going on for some time. so you have to expand your vision.

you have to expand your search and recognize that anywhere he was at there's a possibility there's a trail of victims behind. >> to michelle gallant, psychologist and expert, doctor, i'm just imagining those women's families that are all on the other side of that yellow crime scene tape and every time they pull out another body on a gurney they go is that my mother? is that my sister, my daughter that's been missing the last couple of years? >> i know. and being a mother, it's horrifying. horrifying. i want to touch on something, nancy, that's really important. and when you're speaking about the victims' families, something that the police officer said that is very disturbing to me was the fact that he brought up that we need to know the history of these victims and why we didn't know they were -- that they weren't missing. but i really question that they may have known that there were missing victims. just as we did not know about

the rape that -- on the -- a month ago, it's because of the socioeconomic status of this community. >> the coroner says it could take days, even weeks to i.d. the bodies. at least five of them were apparently strangled. >> the bodies may have been there for weeks, months, possibly years. >> this is a violent rapist. and he clearly is a sociopathic serial killer.

she's 7 months old and can't even crawl or walk. so just how did shannon dedrick vanish? cops will say shannon's parents told investigators shannon slept in the same bedroom as they did. shannon, allegedly snatched from that bedroom sometime between 3:00 and 11:00 a.m. on halloween. >> we're appealing to the public in this area of brown street, if they've seen any suspicious activity or someone carrying a baby that they would give us a

call. >> it's not fitting together for me. they say they go to bed at 3:00 a. a.m.? even if they were awake till 3:00 with the baby, i've never known of a baby that would sleep till 11:00, 11:30 the next morning. babies don't sleep in. >> there's over 70 volunteers, officers and firefighters searching. they started out in an area right behind the house, a wooded area. and they have continued to expand the search. >> i don't like it. something is not fitting together with the story. out to allison walker. she is joining us from panama city with wmbb. allison walker, this is a 7-month-old baby girl. she cannot walk. it's my understanding she cannot crawl yet. that's not unusual. how did she go missing? what's the latest? >> you know what, nancy? we have a timeline. we know that somewhere between 3:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m. the child went missing. what we do know from neighbors

is that the mother, who the sheriff will not release the identity of, went over and knocked on the doors of her neighbors at approximately 11:00 a.m. she then -- she said, is there -- have you guys seen anyone who has driven up in the driveway? because my child is missing. and the neighbors were just shocked. they were like how is your child missing? no, we haven't seen anyone. so they searched the home where shannon and her parents live. no sign of the child. and at 11:23 is when they called sheriff bobby haddock's office to report her missing. as -- that's what we know. the sheriff's office has not been very cooperative in giving us many more details at this point. >> to clark goldband, our producer on the story, let me get that straight. what time -- i thought they woke up at 11:30 a.m. >>er, nancy, that's right. it was 3:00 a.m. they said they went to bed zme woke up around

11:00 a.m. now, nancy, if this timeline cannot get any more convoluted this might take the cake. law enforcement now saying that in fact this child was sleeping in the same bedroom as the parents. so that would mean if the child was taken that the person who abducted the child came right under the parents' noses. >> to marc klaas, special guest joining us tonight from san francisco. he's the president and founder of klaaskids foundation. he's also a crime victim himself. his little girl polly was taken from her home as well. marc klaas, it's not fitting together for me. weigh in. >> well, first of all, nancy, i think it's remarkable that the name of the parents have not been released. >> i don't understand that. why would you not release the name of the parents? i mean, when your polly went missing, you were practically lying on the courthouse and police station steps going please, polygraph me, take me dna, check my car, check my body, anything, just go look for who took polly.

these parents' names are being kept secret? >> well, and it's beyond that, really. because i think another huge gap in this story is the fact that the parents have not made any personal appeals. i really believe that this story is going to be solved or this case will be solved close to home rather than far away from home. i think that the huge challenge that exists right now is in finding the little baby. i can tell you that the klaas kids search team is involved in this particular search. and they are faced with a remarkable set of challenges. it's a very densely populated -- or i'm sorry. there's a very dense area. it's a swampy area. there's a lot of briars. there's a lot of brambles. they do have dogs on the scene. but the problem with that is that dogs follow a scent and this little baby didn't crawl away. there's really no scent to follow. if they're going to find the baby in the woods, they're going to find the baby at a particular

spot. and they continue to go over the same location time and time again so that they have a high probability of having -- they will have had a high probability of having found that child in any one location. i can tell you that the search will be going on again tomorrow. >> to pat brown, criminal profiler, author of "killing for sport." pat, we've had neighbors that we have spoken to say, well, the baby was always happy and the mother was always bragging on the baby, we never even heard the baby cry. that doesn't matter. that doesn't mean anything. how people act in front of other people, that doesn't mean a thing to me. >> exactly. sometimes parents like to show off their children. that's the excitement about it. but it doesn't mean they like having them around all the time. and what i think is interesting is the police never said they're looking for anybody, like some woman who came in and said she wanted a baby and stole it. like everybody look for someone a little overweight saying she's pregnant she just had this baby. they haven't put out one plea

for that. so they're not looking for a live babe yis, they're looking for a dead baby. >> i want to go to the lines. rhonda in tennessee. hi, rhonda. >> caller: hi, nancy. my question is -- and i love your show and love your children. but my question is since -- where were these parents? as a parent myself, if my child did not breathe right in the night or wasn't moving, i knew this. you know? how does someone come into your bedroom and take your child? >> well, rhonda, i can tell you the very first thing i do when i get home from this program at night. i drop my pocketbook and all of my papers and all my notes. i've been studying. i go -- i don't stop. i do purell on the way and i go straight in the room of the twins. and i don't just look at them. i feel them to make sure that they're breathing. i check for the temperature in the room. i don't understand.

ray giudice, christopher amolsch. you know, how can they say this baby slept till 11:30 in the morning? raymond giudice, you've got a b the night. >> if i was their counsel, and i would only represent one of them at a time. i straight. it does not make sense. >> there's not a chance in the world this story is correct. not chance in the world. the police are going to separate them. they're going get one to point the finger at one of them. >> marc klaas could not be more right. zblrvelgts november, the number one cancer killer in the world. lung caser awareness month. you don't have to smoke to get lung cancer.

saturday, november 7, 8:00 a.m. the lung cancer alliance run and walk in georgia. ffr this and other happenings around the u.s., go to lungcanceralliance,.com. and the joan gaeta lung cancer foundation. together, we can win the fight against lung cancer.

investigators have a broad time line they're working with here. it's, according to reports, the parents went to sleep around 3:00 a.m. and didn't wake up until around 11:00 a.m. it's not clear when shannon was taken. >> out to the lines, marcia, west virginia. >> caller: thank you, nancy. i love you show. >> what is your question? >> caller: have they taked to the baby's doctor, when was the

last time she was seen, was she in good health? >> when was the last time anybody other than the parents saw little shannon? >> there are reports that neighbors saw shannon around 9:00 in the morning. that has not been confirmed. as far as medical records, we don't know that. the sheriff's office has not confirmed anything. >> the 9:00 sighting doesn't make sense. the parents say the baby slept until around 11:00 a.m. right there, the stories have conflicted. >> the only way that they could have slept through, as i see it, is if they were on drugs or in a drunken stuper. nothing else makes any kind of sense. that doesn't make sense. >> it's hard to sleep through baby screaming in your ear. lisa, pennsylvania.

>> caller: nice to talk to you. >> what is your question. >> caller: i hope your twins enjoyed their first halloween. my comment on this whole situation, why would you go to a neighbor? i would pick up the phone, call 911 and -- >> excellent point. what about it, doctor? >> it's dishing. think there are serious questions about these parent. like you've said, the fact that it would be asleep from 3:00 a.m. until 11:00 doesn't make sense. everyone, let's stop and remember. jason dunham. lost his life at a naval hospital, parents by his side. awarded the medal of honor. gave his life saving fellow marines from a navy attack. loved sports, the yankees, dreamed of being a state

trooper. leaves behind parents debra and dan. jason dunham, american hero. thank you for being with us. see you tomorrow night. until then, good night, friend. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com coming up, does she miss him on the ratings? jon and kate and the divorce that just won't go away. also, how to go from child star to met addict to moll in three easy steps. and i talk to women that are addicted to babies. these women can give the octomom

a run for her money.

tonight, kate gosselin keeps on talking about john. and jay leno says he would like to talk, but on his old show. and child star jodie sweetin, she talked about life after "full house." and women that have bay beast because they are a giflt from god. couldn't they ask god for a crock pot. all that and more tonight. okay, this week rihanna, a

singer, jay leno, a comic and kate gosselin, the reality show star. how she's handling her split from jon. >> i don't let out how hard sit very much. i'm wake in the middle of the night. thinking. am i making the best decision? so i have meltdowns. i have nights where the weirdest dumbest thing will make me fall apart. >> night sweats? i think she's going tlur menopause. when she referred to the

weirdest, dumbest thing, is she referring to jon? joining me have caroline rhea, joe levy. caroline, let me start do you. she apologized for being so mean to jon ron the show. sit too late for them to get back together? >> hasn't this woman suffered enough with that hair cut? >> and the rest of america. >> when prince charming left snow white, she missed him, too. she needs a personal assistant. first of all, people don't know this, i don't know if you have children yet. your libido is in your placenta and it's removed at birth. >> where are you getting your informati information? >> maybe her brain was in her placenta. >> i feel bad for her.

>> she said she's still in love with jon. >> you to still love jon? >> a part of me always will. it's hard to be married to somebody, i think, for ten years and try to say, no, i don't love them anymore. it doesn't really work really well. um -- i love the memories that we have together. of the good times. >> oh, the good times. i'm sure she means good times like these. >> the white sandals. >> i'm saying flip-flops. let them wear what they want to wear so i don't have to hear it all day? sonchts they lose the shoes? i have enough to keep track of. stand with me or stand against me. >> i'll talk in here. >> fun, fun, fun. >> that is riveting tv.

that is good stuff. can we roll the rest of that? i want to see what happens with the shoes. >> i want to see her go in the room, that where she keeps his -- oh, i'm sorry. >> she hasn't slammed jon since they split. is she taking the high road or worrying about her career? >> i think it's a combination. it's like a death when you split up with somebody. of course, then there's the cynical part of me that says, she's been pr savvy, trying to make sure she has a career after the marriage has dissolved. >> it's hard to take pauses like that. >> jon, by the way, is getting counseling from rabbi schmuley.

>> i think he's maybe not the ticket. >> i love him in "kosher sex." >> perhaps the best way to apologize to your wife and children is not in public at a jewish center. >> you look directly into the camera and say, your turn. i can't believe kate gosselin pimped her children. >> that baby has better hair than kate. >> if i could buy eight of these. everyone is going to be ovulating because she's so cute. >> we're having women on later with 18 children. let's switch gears. jay leno said if the nbc suits asked him to, he would return to the "tonight" show. >> they're 12-year-olds that run that network.

>> should conan be worried? >> just because he's been following jay for years. they make a change, they put conan on the "tonight" show, and they put jay in front of him. i'm available, too. if the nbc suits ask me to do it, i would. >> he's on the tonight show in daylight savings. i would be so mad if i were conen. they shouldn't have let him stay. >> jay should be mad, too. they ruined his career. >> really? drive around one of your 452 cars and go tell jokes and leave conan alone. >> don't you think they forced him out? they want the younger version,

you and i should be annoyed at and you two maybe soon. >> excuse me, i am way closer to their age. thanks a lot. this is getting a little brutal. >> i believe joe and i are almost the same age. >> letterman's numbers have gone up since the sex scandal. 13% increase in the ratings. >> it's hilarious. he didn't commit the ultimate sin of ratings, which is switching time slots. jay's fans are like, wait, you're in a 10:00 time slot. >> why do people not care. i understand if it's a nurse and a doctor, she passes him the wrong scalpel, somebody dice. this is a comedian, he's beloved by all and -- >> what kind of a blanket statement is that? >> i love letterman. >> you don't seem to love leno. >> apparently you have a bitter

romance with him. >> you love leno more than letterman. >> i do. i don't think this would have happened to leno. >> plenty of people have dated him. >> you am i looking at any of them? >> i've been married forever. >> you are not married! >> i am in a relationship just like that. >> goody for you. >> i'm in a relationship just like sitting here right now. >> any way, i think that letterman's numbers went up because people went there for the sex scandal and stayed. >> people tuned in for the sex scandal and stayed. nobody had a reason to check.

they were lulled to sleep by jay leno saying, you know what happened today? something happened. and it was funny. >> i will not have in assault on jay leno on this show. >> aren't we allowed to have opinions? >> i'm going fire right back. who do you think is going to retire first? letterman or leno? they're in the same age bracket. like us. >> you know what, i swear to god. your age is on the tip of my tongue. >> we can bleep anything. >> faye dunaway once said to me, people our age. i said, excuse me. i'm in my 40s, you're over 100. >> who do you think will retire first? >> oh, goodness. i don't know.

>> what is conan is the first one to retire? >> it seems like leno will take his cars, go on the road and do his own thing. >> he spends not one dime of his television money. lives on the comedian money. >> what does he do with the television money? >> stores nit the cars, i don't know. >> he's thinking of buying oprah. >> this was so much fun to see you guys. come again. >> be more sincere. >> i'm serious. if you're in new york city saturday, catch caroline rhea at the new york comedy festival. stories you won't read in a parents magazine.

i'm sorry, but it's time for your appointment. >> what appointment would that be? >> your hair cut apimt with mister stephanie. >> uncle jesse doesn't want to play beauty parlor. >> yes, he does. >> know he doesn't. >> yes he does. >> no he doesn't. a big star as a chald, a bigger mess as a young adult. my next guest knows that all too well. she went from a child star to being addicted to crystal meth. she chronicles it in her new book, "unsweetined." you had your first drink at 14

years of age. >> i did. >> where were you? >> i was at candace camer on's wedding. >> what was it? >> red wine. they started pouring where i was sitting. they went around the table, i drank the whole glass, they poured more. it was an indication, as much as i could get as quickly as i could get. >> was anybody watching you? >> my mom was upset because i was sitting all the way across the room at a different table. my mom thought, this is not -- >> she wanted to keep an eye on you? >> yeah. she knew i would get mist in trouble. and i did. i did. that was the beginning of a history of the -- the drinking

and using and using that as sort of a way to cope. >> the next thing was you drank in high school, you smoked pot. >> i draing in high school, smoked pot here and there. didn't experiment are harder drugs until college. it wasn't a frequent thing. i was drinking then. my drinking got out of control quickly in college. >> the crystal meth? >> that didn't start until my early 20s. between the time of going college and starting my heavier drug use. i was sober for a little over two years. i wasn't in recovery doing the things i needed to do to remain sober, but i wasn't drinking or using at that time. >> you got married? >> i got married when i was 20. >> you maried a policeman?

>> i did. a little into our marriage i started drinking again. i thought maybe it would be different this time. i started dripping again, but you know, it became easier to hide the drug use than it was to hide the drinking. >> from a cop. >> yeah. >> how did you do that? >> it took a lot -- it was a lot of emotionally exhausting covering lies. it was constantly trying be two people and make up excuses for where i was, what i was doing, who i was with. >> did people detect anything? i was reading that the side effects of crystal meth are slurred speech, incessant conversation. it would be hard not to notice. like the person who would be with you would be purposely not noticing. >> what's frightening is that my behavior was a little erratic at

times. i wouldn't show up, i would be late. the things you mentioned, i didn't have those sorts of side effects. >> you didn't? >> i would be up all night. he wouldn't be home, he worked all night. i would pretend to be sleeping. and then i would get up when really i hadn't slept and continue going. he would sleep in the day and go back to work at night. >> how did they find out? >> the story i talk about in the book, i was drinking and using one night, i managed to get really drunk and wind up with acute alcohol poisoning and heart arrhythmia. i got out of my friend's car while she was driving down the street and passed out on the sidewalk for about an hour. while they were deciding what to do, they were freaking out because they didn't want to let the police know because my

husband worked this that area. there was a lot going on. i wound up going the hospital and you know, some friends found the drugs in my purse and told my husband about it. that was how everything came down the first time. so it was, you know, wasn't my own choice to get sober. i knew i needed to do something different. >> you were forced into it? >> i knew i needed to change things but i wasn't at a point in my life where i was ready to get honest. >> you had a couple of setbacks after that. we'll be right back with more from jodie sweetin.

nobody's in here. steph, what are you doing here? >> just hanging around. >> she grew up in front of america on the sitcom "full house." but she did drugs behind closed doors. i'm back with jodie sweetin. your story is so familiar in a certain way to people who watch television. the list of child stars with trouble with drugs and alcohol,

britney spears, todd bridges, tatum o'neal. michael jackson. what is the reason that child stars have such troubles, do you think? there are some that didn't. >> there are some that didn't. i think that there are two things. it's kind of what came first, the chicken or the egg. the personality type that is drawn to performing and talent and that stuff has sort of some of the issues of insecurity and they're compensating by performing. are those things that might be underlying the addictive behavior? and then do all of the permissiveness of being in the business, growing up in an adult business, being allowed to do things at an early age? i think it's a combination of

things. >> were you unprotected by the family. >> not at all. my family was incredibly involved. my mom was with me on the set every day. my dad was a normal working parent. i came from a normal, unhollywood background. >> you've got b better, obviously. you have a chald now. >> i do, i have zoe, almost 19 months old. she's amazing. she's the light of my life. she really, really is. she's helped me in getting sober. >> how is your financial situation? did you save your money? >> i had. i invested nit a house and things like that. i blew a lot of it. but, you know, things are a lot better now. i'm back working again and doing, you know, trying to get back in doing what i love. it's been a struggle and i wasn't always responsible with my money. i was able to -- to --

>> the term young and foolish. that was you. >> i know. >> you're not now. we have a get from somebody that tweeted us. what is the one piece of advice you could give every child star? >> i would say find somebody that you can talk to that you trust. that goes across the board. it's different as a child star. there are not a lot of people to relate to. try and find somebody you can be honest with. >> you should have your parents. >> you do. but i think somebody that has been through it. there are a lot of thing that nobody else, unless they've been through it, can really understand. >> like some of the once that did well, like ron howard. an example of somebody that did well. thank you for coming. >> thank you so much. >> back in a minute.

i'm destiny, i'm 8 years old. >> i'm judah. i'm 10. >> i'm heather, i'm 18. >> i'm courtney, i'm 15. >> i'm shawn, i'm 26. >> i would love to have more children. after leviticus, we haven't had more. >> most of us are familiar with the octomom, jon and kate, and the duggars. the woman you just saw is part of a fast growing christiane movement called quiverfull.

here with me is kathryn joyce, author of "quiverfull: inside the christian patriarchy movement," rachel scott, mother of eight and author of "birthing god's mighty warriors." tell us what quiverfull is. >> it's a movement of largely conservative kris yans who believe that all or most forms of contraception are wrong. christian families should leave their birth control in the hands of god. some different booksly leaders of the movement have pointed out for a collateral benefit of having many children within the conservative christian movement. they follow psalm 127.

that's where they get the name quiverfull from. they follow strict definitions with submissive wives and headship of the husbands. >> rachel, you're a quiverfull person. are you a submissive wife? >> i believe we have an equal partnership. in matters of dispute, i would say we make decisions as team. i think submission is misunderstood. >> it's not the total patriarchy that i saw. >> i don't think so, no. >> vicki, do you believe? >> i think there's the potential there, the teaching there. i believe each family carries to it their own -- in our family, it went to the extreme. defending on the personality of the family that you're involved

with, you can get carried away with it. >> some husbands are more patriarchal than others. >> that makes sense. >> your book is call ed "birthig god's mighty warriors." it makes it sund like a crew said. >> we believe one of the things god has called us to do is birth children. be fruitful and multiply was a commandment to the entire earth to have children. it's not a new concept. >> to what? >> to birth children, procreate. >> that was written by god, yes. >> he's a man. >> he is. i do believe he loves women. >> certainly does, all those kids, just shows you.

i'm so -- i have to zwroump something before i get to the political part of this. who breast feeds these kids. >> i have eight i breast fed them all. >> do you have twins of triplets in there? >> no. >> you popped them out and breast fed all your children one at a time. >> yes. did you not breast feed? >> i only had one. i don't know if i could do it eight times. >> i didn't pop mine out. i didn't pop mine out. i had a very difficult time. >> how many do you have? >> seven children. five by c-section. it was quite a -- >> what do you say to people, maybe kathryn can answer this, that say you're having children for political purposes. you're trying repop late the world with babies that you produce. and that it's not just about

having a baby to have children and ah have a family life but to make a point, to recreate the earth. >> for us, i believe we're just, we believe that we're being blessed with these children. we're not doing it for a political purpose. we're doing it for a spiritual purpose. we want the be on god's team. he said to populate the earth and we are. >> do you feel the same way about islamic families doing that? >> when god said be fruitful and multiply it was not for a specific religion. it was for people of the earth. >> i think there's truth to what both of you are saying. families having this plarnlg of a number of children. that's a very demanding thing.

i don't think political issues could encourage them to do that. i think a lot of literature of the movement, i reviewed it, there is a sense that in addition to quiverfull being god's will and god's law to be fruitful and multiply to trust god to give you as many children as you can handle, there's a secondary set of motivations written in there by the leaders, saying, if several generations of christians put their fertility in god's hands, within a few decades, we'll have a vast group of people. >> what do you say to that? >> the fastest growing segment of society are latinos. >> they're mostly kr lly christ.

>> catholic? i would say historically they have been. they're the fastest growing segment of who is actually producing in our society. >> are you trying to keep up with them? >> uh, no, not necessarily. i believe christian influence will gain more power as we have more children. that's not the motivation. we're doing it because it's something god wants us to do. our country needs an answer right now. family is the answer. there's nothing greater than a family. i believe it's the answer for our world. >> it's an expensive thing that you're doing. to have all those children in this culture is expensive. what does your husband do? >> i work part time. my husband is a construction executive. we've paid our deuce and that

sort of thing. >> when we come back, i want to hear more about the physiological part of this. i was not thrilled with one pregnancy, much less 8 or 18. stick around. >> i believe conceiving children and giving birth is an act of worship. i believe you're submitting to god's goal for the planet and god's goal for you as a woman. to me, it's the most beautiful thing to watch unfold just about in the whole world. that is when a woman embraces her own motherhood.

there's eight of them here.

the one crying just came home, jonah. right there is, who's that? this is noah. jeremiah is right there. >> we're back talking with families with multiple children. how to i'm sure you're all familiar with the octomom. she has 14 children at this point. she has no husband, she was on welfare. not part of the movement, i don't think. how would you help this woman? she has no husband no, income. >> i think she should pray a lot. >> i think she does that. >> get as much outside help as she can. to do what she's doing by herself is incredible. she needs a lot of people to help her. >> would you take her into rur

fold? your quiver people? >> sure, i would help her. i think she is on the other side of the country. >> i'm interesting in the physiology of it. you said carrying, you had a hard time with that. now you're divorced. how are you managing? >> my oldest daughter, to tell the truth, i relied on her help. we were efficient, extremely organized. we came up with some really creative ideas of how to get it all done. well, how to try to get it all done. we really didn't. we were falling behind in every area. i was falling behind in the home schooling. i couldn't keep up. my oldest daughter burned out, she was 18. she had just had it. >> she had a suicide attempt. i saw the film piece about her. i think she was overburdened by

the work of it. >> absolutely. >> you couldn't handle it. it fell to her. >> somebody pays the price. i think it's the girls. >> is your older girl paying the price? >> from the beginning, i purposed my kids would have a life. they're very active in school. for me, they helped. but they have all these other things they do. >> since you don't practice birth control, you believe you should have children as long as god wants you to, do you ever say, i have a headache? >> i was so exhausted. i had a vision i had an inspiration this was my purpose that the lord had given me. i was determined to do it whatever the cost. if it was going kill me, i would

do it. >> it almost did, and your daughter. >> it was that vision, that extremely inspiring idea of this beautiful, this perfect family and that is what i was going for. i was really wants to do the lord's will, his best plan for the family, which i believed was defined in the bible. there was a very narrow idea of what is a family, what is the right correct godly family. that's what i was going for. >> it didn't work for you. it did for you, not for her. human people are into this. >> there have not been any scientific studies. no hard numbers. my estimate is it's probably if the low tens of thousands, maybe 20,000 to 30,000 based on different memberships in online forums. >> what do you say to people that say it's selfish to keep

having these children. there are so many children to adopt. what do you say to that? >> a lot of families from quiverfull adopt. they have a few and start adopting. the more the merrier thing with a lot of the families. i would consider it. you love kids. >> you want to adopt more kids? >> we're thinking about it. >> how much does it cost the feed them? >> it's expensive. >> the old ses how old? >> he's 26. have i seven at home and grandchild. >> and the other thing about this thing is that you home-school all the children. you're cooking, cleaning, wiping the nose, they get sick in the night, fall off the swing and you have to teach them, too, and have sex with your husband consta constantly, i cant take it. i can't imagine day at your house.

>> not everyone in the movement home schools. i don't. have i done it off and on. as, what i believe about home schooling is pray and ask god about it. >> how do you have time to coif and put makeup on? you look so good. >> you have to be organized. it's a zoo around the house sometimes. you have to be organized. >> what is your status? are you mare rid? >> i am divorced. i have five children still at home, two are in college. it's a zoo at our house. we have a great time. the restrictions we have thrown them away. we have said, let's go for it, be ourselves. do what comes naturally. we don't have prescribed rules anymore. this is god's will for you. but it's basically, let's figure out. >> what is god's provision for

divorce? what if you don't get along with your husband? a lot of people in the country get divorced. what happens then? >> in my mind there was no provision for divorce. i believed there was no -- >> so what happens? you're stuck? a miserable marriage then? >> i had convinced mist that i was not stuck, i enjoyed it, i was fine with it. i was when i finally had the near breakdown after my daughter attempted suicide that i had to re-evaluate it all. i had to say look at the situation, what it actually is, not what it can be, what god could make of it. what is it actually? actually, i can't take this. >> how are the children doing now that you're out of the quiverfull? >> they're just blooming, bloss blossoming. >> how is angel doing? >> she's doing much better. >> do you know how many of these quiverfull families split up?

>> i don't know how many. but i thing i would reiterate what vicki said. from a lot of the literature, a lot of biblical womanhood literature. it stresses that divorce is not an option. it's your duty to make marriage work. >> that sounds too restrict toif me. this patriarchy thing, tets talk about it. you say you're in an equal relationship. >> when kathryn wrote her book, i think she confused some things. >> i think rachel is -- i'm very glad to hear that'll that you're in an equal regs ship i think in a lot of the movement -- >> she sounds fine. >> i think in a lot of the movement, there's an overwhelming emphasis on wives'

duties to be submissive to their husbands. >> it abuse. >> you're correct. it could look like abuse to people who don't understand it. there are more people trying to get into this than trying to get out of it. the catholic church actually keeps records of people who they actually have records on how many people who don't use birth control divorce. it's 1%. >> if you wanted to get a divorce and got half a dozen kids, you don't have a lot of options there. it's a scary thing. >> yeah. >> very hard for women to leave when most of them, you work part time, but i think most women in the quiverful movement do not have a college degree. >> oh, no, that is so not true. >> the younger women are being encouraged not to go to college. >> maybe in a very, very remote segment. quiverful -- we're talking a lot

of people have college educations who decide to have large families. it's everywhere now. it's definitely changing. >> yeah. we'll be back in a minute.

sfwlmplts we're we're back talking about the quiverful movement. you were saying, rachel, god is a feminist. >> absolutely. >> what do you mean? >> when god was creating the earth he created eve, created adam. then he brought eve. eve was his crowning glory. eve was woman and god said, okay, i'm stopping creation. i'm done. i've created the greatest masterpiece. >> patriarchkies scare me because when men are in charge of everything it almost follows women are sungy kated. i like it when women are in charge. i grew up in an italian

matriarch. the women told everybody what to do. i like that better. >> something that's interesting about the quiverful movement, though, i found that a lot of times it is the woman who leads the family into the quiverful and patriarchky. they're the ones going to the conventi conventions, buying the books, reading the material and saying it's a way to say, i need a husband who is more of a leader who takes more charge of what's going on and is more involved. that was my motivation really. i was saying, you know, i had a husband who i felt i would really appreciate if he would step up more with the child raising, with the -- >> that's everybody's complaint. is your husband good like that? >> he's awesome. to answer her, a reason women are doing this, there's a backlash against feminism. feminism took us out of the home and put us in careers which is

awesome because it won us rights we needed. women are coming back. "time" magazine came out last week, women aren't happy. >> too many things to do maybe. too much stress. >> women need to get back in the home. >> i have to take issue with that because your life sounds very stressful to me. like, you have too much to do without a career. >> yeah, there's balance, though, as long as you're -- >> to me it's less stressful to go to work and have a job than stay home with 0 kids. >> there's no balance saying i will take all the children god will give me. there's no balance to say i'll continue to reproduce and reproduce. >> i think it depends on your marriage and situation. >> how many more do you want to have? >> i would to have more. >> how old are you? how old are you? >> 48. >> oh, forget it. time to adopt. time to adopt, rachel. you can have some nice adoption situations going on. >> i started a ministry to africa in my garage with a man

we met from africa and we're talking to him about getting children from there from his orphanage. >> i want to jump back a minute if that's okay, regarding feminism. i think it's great that that's what you believe and you see god as a feminist. in most of my reporting and reading on this, i would think that was an unorthodoxed view within the movement because a lot of the founding movement and books written about this today about this movement are deeply anti-feminist. >> i have to make that the last word. just going to have to suj gait yourself to katherine. you were very good, though. thank you all, very much, ladies. these ladies will be appearing on the show "secret lives of women born to breed." a week from today at 10:00 p.m. on we tv. thanks to my other guests as well and good night sh everybody.

breaking news tonight. live, ohio. cops raid the home of a convicted rapist accused of yet another sex attack. inside his three-story cleveland home, seasoned detectives stunned. women's bodies hidden throughout. bodies on every floor of the home. even stuffed in crawl spaces. bombshell tonight. our prediction last night, unfortunately, comes true. even more women's bodies discovered. body count so far -- ten dead women. all hidden in the home of former marine anthony sowell.

investigators now prepare to tear down the walls, literally scouring every square inch of sowell's three-story cleveland home in search of even more victims. tonight, unsuspecting neighbors in shock over an alleged serial killer living amongst them. >> today, this morning our homicide unit along with the cuyahoga county coroner's office, went back to the scene, which has been secured ever since day one. during the course of their investigation throughout the day we have discovered approximately four more bodies in the back yard and a skull in a bucket in the basement. the skull was discovered wrapped in a paper bag in a bucket in the basement. >> dead bodies on every level of the home, including stuffed in the crawl space. my prediction -- there will be more. >> ten bodies found at the home of convicted rapist anthony sowell.

the dig continues, as he put it, as they continue to search. >> it appears this man has an insatiable appetite that he had to fill. that's how it appears. and everything's right there at that location. >> people did complain about over and over again that that place really, really smelled and he reeked. but they thought it was that sausage factory running behind him or the fact he's just some semi-homeless bum who doesn't take a shower very often. they just discounted it. >> we did not have information concerning the smells, et cetera. so as far as the police dropped the ball, i wouldn't say we dropped the ball. we were very diligent in what we did. and breaking tonight live, the florida panhandle. a close-knit community reeling after a newborn baby girl sleeping in the same bedroom as her parents vanishes without a trace. halloween. the story becomes even more distorted. but tonight we want to know who took baby shannon.

>> investigators in the panhandle of florida need your help. they're looking for a 7-month-old girl who disappeared and may be in danger. >> cops say shannon's parents told investigators shannon slept in the same bedroom as they did. shannon allegedly snatched from that bedroom sometime between 3:00 and 11:00 a.m. on halloween. >> the sheriff said nothing indicates she was abducted. but he also said she "didn't crawl or walk away." >> the child obviously did not walk or crawl out of the home. i don't understand why the police are saying there's no foul play. you have a 7-month-old baby lying there asleep in the home. now, she's gone. >> they seem to be pointing fingers directly at the parents. >> neighbors now speaking out, saying they saw a gray van near shannon's home that night. investigators expanding the search area for a 7-month-old girl who they say did not walk or crawl away.

good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. breaking news tonight live, ohio. cops raid the home of a convicted rapist accused of yet another sex attack. inside his three-story cleveland home, seasoned detectives stunned. women's bodies hidden throughout. bodies, dead women on every floor of the home. some of them even stuffed into the crawl spaces. bombshell tonight. our prediction last night unfortunately comes true. even more women's bodies discovered in the last 24 hours. body count so far, ten dead women that we know of. all hidden in the home of former marine anthony sowell. >> breaking news coming to us from cleveland. more discoveries at the home of

a rape suspect. >> we have discovered approximately four more bodies in the back yard and a skull in a bucket in the basement. >> that would raise the total to ten bodies found under this man's home. this is almost starting to reach jeffrey dahmer-type proportions. >> also today the suspect, anthony sowell, approximately 4:00 this afternoon, he was charged with five counts of aggravated murder on john does at this point right now. he's also charged with rape, kidnapping, and felonious assault, an initial complaint that led to us that house two days ago. >> six bodies have been found at the home of a convicted rapist anthony sowell. well, this morning four more bodies were found. so now we're up to ten. >> six missing women found dead. there's going to be more. there are going to be more than six women. >> we continue just to dig it up just to make sure we covered all our bases. as we were doing that, we discovered four more bodies in the back yard. the dig continues.

>> the dig continues in the home of former marine anthony sowell. so far police have excavated and found ten dead women. out to dan haggerty joining us from wews, outside sowell's home right now, cleveland suburbs, dan haggerty, thank you for being with us. >> thanks. >> they found four more dead bodies so far. how did they not see four dead women yesterday? where were the bodies hidden? >> well, they've been digging. we've seen them all day in the back yard. of course, you know as soon as they start finding something they start throwing the tarps up and keeping the camera lenses from seeing exactly what was going on there. but when i showed up early this morning, they started finding stuff. the tarp started going up. and i'll tell you, i'd say 100 or so people have been gathering on this street here. and right behind me -- the backhoe back there. so they were doing some pretty

serious excavating back there. but you should have seen the looks on the people's faces on the streets here every time you saw the medical examiner's -- back down that street to put yet another body in the van. you've been saying it. four more bodies as well as a skull that they found in the basement. that makes ten bodies total. also, anthony sowell is going to be arraigned tomorrow. again, five counts of aggravated murder. as well as the rape, felonious assault, and kidnapping. that was from back in september. and that's what actually brought police to the home just on thursday -- looking for him. he wasn't there. but they found the bodies instead. >> everybody, we are taking some hits on our satellite. joining us there outside sowell's home right now where the dig is continuing for even more dead women, dan haggerty joining us from wews. dan, again, thank you for being with us. this is something i don't understand, dan.

the woman said she had been raped by sowell back in september. why were police just getting there in november? >> well, i don't want to speculate to what police were doing in the meantime. i assume they were collecting evidence to put together a hard case in order to come here and make the arrest. we know he was a sex offender. he registered. he was a tier 3 sex offender. so he actually had to go to the sheriff -- tell them where he was living, where he was working every 90 days. we believe it was sometime during the summer they stopped over here and did a surprise check with him and the sheriff's office didn't report anything suspicious to police at the time. the woman who was assaulted in september according to the police report went to police then. it took them a series of weeks to put together a case, i assume. and that's when they came here to serve the warrant. they went inside looking for sowell and found only two bodies in the attic that were so badly decomposed they couldn't even

tell the sex at the time. and a shallow grave in the basement. obviously, this story continues to get worse as the days go on. >> dan haggerty with us, wews, joining us in front of the home of anthony sowell, former marine. he did his time as a marine. he did several years. i believe five to seven years with the marines. he was honorably discharged. he was stationed in north carolina and california, as i recall. then, after he got out of the marines, he did 15 years behind bars on a rape. i don't know why he was walking the streets. apparently, he did his time. they didn't have any more holds on him. so they had to let him go. and this is what happened. correct me if i'm wrong, jean casarez, legal correspondent joining us from "in session." jean, didn't he just get out, and wasn't it 2005 he got out on a 15-year stint in the pen for rape?

>> he was convicted of two counts of attempted rape, 1990 through 2005 released. so there's been four years now, nancy, that he has been living in that home, a home that's owned by his stepmother. and the four bodies that were just found in the last 24 hours, nancy, were in the back yard. they were under the earth. they were in graves back there. >> to stacy newman, our producer on the story. stacey, it's my prediction that they will find -- that at the beginning -- and i'm using 2005, when he got out of the pen, as the beginning. he was more careful in hiding the bodies. but then going on ten bodies he started getting careless and did not hide them as well. tell me what you know, stacey newman, about the neighbors. it's my understanding they noticed something bizarre and they complained to their city councilman. >> this is a big bone of contention tonight, nancy. neighbors are reporting they

smelled a foul odor for years in this neighborhood including a city councilman that called the health inspector wanting to know where the stench is coming from. now, there is a sausage company in this neighborhood, nancy, ray's sausage. everyone believed the smell was coming from the sausage company. fast-forward to today. uh-oh. coming from decomposing bodies inside sowell's home. >> well, another thing. back to dan haggerty joining us outside of sowell's home -- everybody, we're taking your calls live. this is a stunning turn of events. seasoned detectives go in the home on a rape charge. they have now found in the last 48 hours 10 dead women there in the chicago suburbs. and i guarantee you, haggerty, if they go and they look at california and north carolina, where he was stationed with the marines, there are going to be women there that have never been found, never been accounted for. dan haggerty, who are these ten women so far? >> well, police haven't said.

we don't know at this point right now. but we know there are a whole lot of people who are showing up in this neighborhood, dozens of missing women and their families and their loved ones that have been showing up here and trying to figure out if their loved ones are one of the bodies inside of this home. >> as soon as the incident took place and the s.w.a.t. unit made entry and discovered the two decomposed bodies on the third floor, we put zone car personnel in the house and we secured the location. but at no time did we ever leave the scene. there was always police personnel on point to make sure everything was secure. >> send us your favorite family photos for our upcoming n.g. family album. go to cnn.com/nancygrace.

every night hln's nancy grace brings you the real drama straight from the courtroom. >> every lawyer has a different

version of what they would think justice is. >> tnt mondays. "raising the bar" is all new. >> to me justice is a jury rendering a verdict that speaks the truth. >> do you trust him? because that's what this case comes down to. >> stephen bochco's "raising the bar." mondays at 10:00 on tnt. and pick up nancy's new book, "the eleventh victim," available now wherever books are sold. yellow crime tape stretched around the corner from 12205 imperial avenue today. cleveland police brought in heavy machinery to literally help them dig for evidence in the back yard of the house where 50-year-old anthony sowell lived. police officers and a team from the coroner's office watched to see what was unearthed. and by early afternoon it was clear they had found something. experts wearing masks and special suits scurried around the house where just days ago police discovered six dismembered and decomposing

bodies. >> we already have half a dozen dead women in his home that we know of? and i'm predicting there's going to be more? >> and now five days after that gruesome discovery another two body bags were loaded into two coroner vehicles and taken away. and police believe there could be more. >> we have discovered approximately four more bodies in the back yard. >> the face of a suspected mass murderer. >> the suspect, anthony sowell, approximately 4:00 this afternoon he was charged with five counts of aggravated murder. he was also charged with rape, kidnapping, and felonious assault. >> as we go to air, the dig continues in the cleveland suburbs. we now know of ten dead women found in anthony sowell's three-story home. including the back yard. we predict there will be more. joining me outside sowell's home this evening, dan haggerty with wews. dan, where in the home were the women hidden? >> well, they were hidden pretty

much all over the house, nancy. there were some in the attic. that's where they were first discovered. two bodies that were so badly decomposed, we were told, that they couldn't even determine a sex right away. they also found bodies in a crawl space below some stairs. they found a skull inside of a bucket in the basement. they also found bodies buried outside behind the home. and we just saw police leaving with some of their bigger equipment, they had a backhoe there all day. they just pulled that out of there. i'm sure they're starting to shut things down slowly for the night. but they're going to be out tomorrow looking for more. >> now, you said that the bodies were found in the back yard. you're also telling me that families of missing women across cleveland are now gathering outside the home, wondering if their daughter, their mother, their sister, their wife are one of these women. >> well, you know what? for the past several months i know of a couple big stories we've had around here since around springtime, april and may.

there have been posters looking for missing women. and these are all ages. these are women in their late teens all the way to in their 40s that you've seen in convenience stores, that we saw at different gas stations. these posters looking for these women. well, now all of a sudden there are ten bodies showing up at this house in this neighborhood where a lot of these women were known to live, were known to be at times, and these families are showing up asking, is this my daughter? like you said, is this my mother? >> can you imagine standing on the other side of that yellow crime scene tape wanting to know every time they pull out a gurney with a woman's body covered in a sheet, is that my daughter? is that my mother? >> hundreds of people. and it started over the weekend. it started on thursday and people started showing up here. i've been here through most of it, and there have been people here nonstop day and night waiting for answers. >> to pat brown, criminal profiler, author of "killing for

sport." here's the deal, pat. he typically used public transportation. we know that. and therefore, he could have a cache of bodies elsewhere. they don't all have to be in his home. how do we know this is where he started? he could have started out meeting women on the other side of town, women in fields where typically they are dumped in open fields or in dumpsters. the only way now to determine if those women are connected is through possible dna. but what do you think about changing an m.o.? >> well, nancy, you're absolutely correct. sometimes we lean too heavily on the m.o. has to be the same on and on and on. but that's not true. what will happen is he'll do what's convenient for him. so originally if he was out walking around maybe going through a park and sees a jogger go by he might have grabbed her and done that but then one time he found there was a pigeon walking through his neighborhood he said want some malt liquor? woman says sure. what's up? she comes in, she's dead.

he says, hey, that works. police never showed up. it's easier than leaving them out there. but then he starts a new trend. but it's only because it works. >> it has worked. now nearly a dozen dead bodies. unleash the lawyers. raymond giudice, atlanta. christopher amolsch, washington, d.c. raymond giudice, insanity is not going to work. he hid these bodies, he continued working. he was discharged from the marines with an honorable discharge. and don't even say intoxication. we know that was his m.o. voluntary intoxication not a defense. >> that's correct. and i agree with you completely. he will have a clean mental bill of health from the marines. remarkably, prison officials found him to be a model prisoner during those 15 years, so he has no history of mental health issues that would lead to a winnable insanity defense. >> okay. so i'm not hiring giudice as my lawyer if that's what he's got to say. amoll sh, what's your defense? >> it's got to be insanity because there's nothing else.

seasoned detectives go into a three-story home, cleveland area, to find at least six dead bodies. all women. we are predicting more. >> do i believe there's more bodies? i don't know at this time. what we're going to continue to do is search the property until we're totally satisfied it is totally clean. that's why we will continue overnight with the excavating. tomorrow we will come back with the fire department and look in the walls, ceilings, wherever we need to look, to confirm that in fact there is nothing else there. >> joining me outside former

marine anthony sowell's home there in the cleveland suburbs, from wews, dan haggerty. dan, again, thank you for being with us this evening. i understand that the neighborhood said when they would walk by the home they could smell a stench. is that true? >> yes, it is true. and it lasted for some say months. others say years. and they describe it after the fact as the smell of death, of rotting flesh, of dead bodies. keep in mind, though, right next door to anthony sowell's house there is a factory that packages pork products. so many people thought that the smell might have been coming from there. now, i went in there today and talked to the owner of that place, and she says that that business has been there for 60 years. she's been working there for 35 years. and it never smelled like that. there were times during the summer on hot days where she couldn't even work in her office, she had to leave. so they actually inspected the sewer system outside. they fixed that.

it didn't seem to cut down on the smell, either. but you know, some people said that they were in the neighborhood and didn't smell anything. >> we will not know until we identify the victims and understand their way of life, how they existed in the community.

the stench of death so strong neighbors gagged whenever they went past this house. well, now we're finding out the guy who lives there is a convicted rapist. why didn't anyone notice? >> what happened today when we went back to continue our investigation, we also took some dogs with us, cadaver dogs. they weren't successful because of the wind. but we also had a backhoe, and we continued just to dig it up just to make sure we covered all our bases. as we were doing that, we

discovered four more bodies in the back yard. >> 50-year-old suspect. his name is anthony sowell. he served 15 years for rape before moving into that house in 2005. >> police found the bodies during an investigation into separate rape allegations. a woman said he attacked her in that house september 22nd. >> the bodies may have been there for weeks, months, possibly years. >> what we're seeing is these men that are on these sexual registries are -- >> if you are just joining us, a stunning series of events out of cleveland suburbs. police go to the home, raid the home of a convicted rapist who was back on the streets, now charged with another rape, and instead of finding evidence in that rape they find instead six dead bodies. it is now mounting to nearly a dozen dead women. in and around his home. they are now excavating his back yard.

are there more? put money on it. joining us from outside the home of former marine anthony sowell, wews' dan hagerty. dan haggerty, take me back to the very beginning. how did this unfold? >> well, we'll start on thursday, when police first got here. it was two bodies. then yesterday. then this morning. we wake up thinking it's six bodies. four more bodies are taken out today. now it's ten bodies, including a skull that was found in the basement. right now anthony sowell charged with five -- with five counts, rather, of aggravated murder. and you mentioned, he's also charged with rape, felonious assault, and kidnapping from an incident back in september. and that's why police came here on thursday. they came to serve a warrant for those charges. when they got here, he wasn't here, anthony sowell. they went into the home, and that's when they found the initial two bodies in the attic

and the one shallow grave in the basement. but as they continue to search, they continue to look through the house, they continue to dig in the back yard, they continue to find more. >> and joining me right now, dr. evelyn minaya. she is a medical doctor. but doctor, how can they tell that the three dead women in the attic were some of the first victims, at least in this burial ground, anyway? >> that's a very good question. and the thing is that it's the decomposition. remember, they couldn't even identify that these women were actually women. and it just behooves me, i can't understand how can you not smell that stench. this is not just one person. this is exactly ten bodies in different stages of decomposition. how can you not smell that? how can you not investigate it a little bit better? so that's how you know that the person in the attic definitely was probably one of the first victims and then, you know, going outside, depending upon what phase of decomposition that they were in. we're going to get all of that

information as the investigation goes on. >> exactly. joining me, dr. evelyn minaya out of new york. and of course the corpses in the back yard may be even more well preserved because they have been buried and kept from the elements, kept from the fresh air. out to the lines, rachel in illinois. hi, rachel. >> caller: hi, nancy. thanks for taking my call. i have so many questions. so i'm going to be real quick. the woman that allegedly fell out the window, when did that actually happen? >> okay. to jean casarez, legal correspondent, "in session." you have studied the chronology, the time of events here, jean casarez. what happened when the woman came out the window? >> i think this is the 1990 incident that actually resulted in the conviction and made him a sex offender. >> right. >> the modus operandi is so similar to all of these. she was actually sitting on a love seat with him. she was a neighborhood woman.

he then starts to strangle her. she fights for her life. he then begins to sexually assault her. she ran. she was able to get away. unlike allegedly the others. >> so jean, was she pushed out the window, or did she jump to save her own life? >> what she said to police was he actually fell asleep after he bound her and sexually assaulted her, she was able to take a rag out of her mouth, unbind herself. she was too scared to go out the door, she thought that would make noise, so she went out the window. >> oh, jean. oh, jean, i did not know that detail. so he bound her, stuck a rag in her mouth, sexually assaulted her. and it's my -- let me go to stacy newman on this. is his m.o. that he drinks heavily during these attacks? is that why he nodded off to sleep after the rape? >> exactly. and we also know he has an alleged history of drug abuse as well, nancy. also, i want to tell you that most of these victims, of the first six bodies that were found, were strangled.

which meshes with the fact all these other allegations of these attacks he also strangled these women, or tried to choke them as well. >> back to dan haggerty joining us outside the home of former marine anthony sowell, where bodies are still being excavated in the back yard. were the women clothed, dan haggerty? >> we don't know. we don't know that. those types of details, exactly what they were finding back there, the biggest detail we received was that they found a skull in the basement. as far as the condition of a lot of these bodies or even the sex of most of them at this point, we're still trying to wait to hear from investigators. we do know this, though. it seems like every time they go into this house they find something more. they find more. so today -- or tomorrow, rather, they're coming in here with the fire department, and they're going to tear through this place wall to wall and make sure there's nothing left to be found. >> well, if he's hiding dead bodies, dead women in the attic and the crawl sparks the

basement, the back yard, i could not exclude the walls themselves. and of course we remember in the recent case of yale medical student annie le, she was hidden in the wall. i want to go out to paul penzone, he is a former sergeant of phoenix police department. he's with childhelp.org. he's an expert in his field. paul, what do you think of the possibility that there are other burial grounds of anthony sowell's? we know that he frequently uses the bus. what does that mean? nobody would be able to identify a car or get a car tag if he were frequenting an area of town where he could pick up women coming in and out of bars. i once had a serial killer that would pick up women coming in and out of the bus station, the rapid transit station. he would say hey, you want to go have a drink with me, you want to go have dinner? and they would go have dinner, then never be seen again. he had women buried all over town.

>> it would be irresponsible to think that that's the only place where there are going to be victims. depending on -- if you look at the time frame of when he was released from prison to when they finally realized what he was up to, this is horrific. the likelihood there are victims in other places, missing people who were never recovered and no one knows their whereabouts is extremely high. so you cannot keep your scope limited to that home. you have to expand it. >> absolutely. and also, paul penzone, what about my theory that you don't just start murdering out of the blue? i'm just wondering if either "a" after he did 15 years in the pen on rape he started killing his rape victims so they could not testify at trial or go to police or "b" has he been doing this for many, many years which would include missing women in north carolina and california where he was station ed as a marine. what do you think about it, penzone? >> i think you're spot on because he's predisposed for violence and predisclosed for sexual violence. this didn't just happen

overnight. and the victims we see with the decomposition over years obviously shows it's been going on for some time. you have to expand your vegisio. you have to expand your search and recognize that anywhere he was at there's a possibility there's a trail of victims behind. >> to michelle gallant, psychologist and expert, doctor, i'm just imagining those women's families that are all on the other side of that yellow crime scene tape and every time they pull out another body on a gurney they go is that my mother? is that my sister, my daughter that's been missing the last couple of years? >> i know. and being a mother, it's horrifying. horrifying. i want to touch on something, nancy, that's really important. and when you're speaking about the victims' families, something that the police officer said that is very disturbing to me was the fact that he brought up that we need to know the history of these victims and why we didn't know they were -- that they weren't missing. but i really question that they may have known that there were missing victims.

just as we did not know about the rape that -- on the -- a month ago, it's because of the socioeconomic status of this community. >> the coroner says it could take days, even weeks to i.d. the bodies. at least five of them were apparently strangled. >> the bodies may have been there for weeks, months, possibly years. >> this is a violent rapist. and he clearly is a sociopathic serial killer.

she's 7 months old and can't even crawl or walk. so just how did shannon dedrick vanish? cops will say shannon's parents told investigators shannon slept in the same bedroom as they did. shannon, allegedly snatched from that bedroom sometime between 3:00 and 11:00 a.m. on halloween. >> we're appealing to the public in this area of brown street, if they've seen any suspicious activity or someone carrying a baby that they would give us a call. >> it's not fitting together for me. they say they go to bed at 3:00

a.m.? even if they were awake till 3:00 with the baby, i've never known of a baby that would sleep till 11:00, 11:30 the next morning. babies don't sleep in. >> there's over 70 volunteers, officers and firefighters searching. they started out in an area right behind the house, a wooded area. and they have continued to expand the search. >> i don't like it. something is not fitting together with the story. out to allison walker. she is joining us from panama city with wmbb. allison walker, this is a 7-month-old baby girl. she cannot walk. it's my understanding she cannot crawl yet. that's not unusual. how did she go missing? what's the latest? >> you know what, nancy? we have a timeline. we know that somewhere between 3:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m. the child went missing. what we do know from neighbors

is that the mother, who the sheriff will not release the identity of, went over and knocked on the doors of her neighbors at approximately 11:00 a.m. she then -- she said, is there -- have you guys seen anyone who has driven up in the driveway? because my child is missing. and the neighbors were just shocked. they were like, how is your child missing? no, we haven't seen anyone. so they searched the home where shannon and her parents live. no sign of the child. and at 11:23 is when they called sheriff bobby haddock's office to report her missing. as -- that's what we know. the sheriff's office has not been very cooperative in giving us many more details at this point. >> to clark goldband, our producer on the story, let me get that straight. what time -- i thought they woke up at 11:30 a.m. >> yes, nancy, that's right. it was 3:00 a.m. they said they went to bed and they woke up around 11:00 a.m. now, nancy, if this timeline could not get any more

convoluted, this may take the cake. law enforcement now saying that in fact this child was sleeping in the same bedroom as the parents. so that would mean if the child was taken that the person who abducted the child came right under the parents' noses. >> to marc klaas, special guest joining us tonight from san francisco. he's the president and founder of klaaskids foundation. he's also a crime victim himself. his little girl, polly, was taken from her home as well. marc klaas, it's not fitting together for me. weigh in. >> well, first of all, nancy, i think it's remarkable that the name of the parents have not been released. >> i don't understand that. why would you not release the name of the parents? i mean, when your polly went missing, you were practically lying on the courthouse and police station steps going please, polygraph me, take me dna, check my car, check my body, anything, just go look for who took polly.

these parents' names are being kept secret? >> well, and it's beyond that, really. because i think another huge gap in this story is the fact that the parents have not made any personal appeals. i really believe that this story is going to be solved or this case will be solved close to home rather than far away from home. i think that the huge challenge that exists right now is in finding the little baby. i can tell you that the klaas kids search team is involved in this particular search. and they are faced with a remarkable set of challenges. it's a very densely populated -- or i'm sorry. there's a very dense area. it's a swampy area. there's a lot of briars. there's a lot of brambles. they do have dogs on the scene. but the problem with that is that dogs follow a scent and this little baby didn't crawl away. there's really no scent to follow. if they're going to find the baby in the woods, they're going to find the baby at a particular spot. and they continue to go over the

same location time and time again so that they have a high probability of having -- they will have had a high probability of having found that child in any one location. i can tell you that the search will be going on again tomorrow. >> to pat brown, criminal profiler, author of "killing for sport." pat, we've had neighbors that we have spoken to say, well, the baby was always happy and the mother was always bragging on the baby, we never even heard the baby cry. that doesn't matter. that doesn't mean anything. how people act in front of other people, that doesn't mean a thing to me. >> exactly. sometimes parents like to show off their children. that's the excitement about it. but it doesn't mean they like having them around all the time. and what i think is interesting is the police never said they're looking for anybody, like some woman who came in and said she wanted a baby and stole it. like everybody look for someone a little overweight saying she's pregnant she just had this baby. they haven't put out one plea for that. so they're not looking for a live baby, they're looking for a dead baby. >> i want to go to the lines.

rhonda in tennessee. hi, rhonda. >> caller: hello, nancy. my question is -- and i love your show and love your children. but my question is since -- where were these parents? as a parent myself, if my child did not breathe right in the night or wasn't moving, i knew this. you know? how does someone come into your bedroom and take your child? >> well, rhonda, i can tell you the very first thing i do when i get home from this program at night. i drop my pocketbook and all of my papers and all my notes. i've been studying. i go -- i don't stop. i do purell on the way and i go straight in the room of the twins. and i don't just look at them. i feel them to make sure that they're breathing. i check for the temperature in the room. i don't understand. ray giudice, christopher amolsch.

you know, how can they say this baby slept till 11:30 in the morning? raymond giudice, you've got a brand new blended family. you've been up during the night with your daughters. have a brand new blended family. have you been up late at night with your daughters. >> i would only represent one at a t b of the potential conflict. it does not make sense. >> what about it? >> there is not a chance in the world this story is correct. not a chance in the world. the police will separate them which is probably why they have not released their names and they will get one of them to point the finger at the other. >> everybody, we will break. november, lung cancer awareness month. it's the number one cancer killer in the world, and claiming more lives than many combined. important, you don't have to smoke to get lung cancer.

this saturday, november 7, 8:00 a.m., the lung cancer alliance run and walk, alpharetta, georgia. the lungcancerfoundation.org, we can win the fight together against lung cancer.

i am brooke anderson, and next on "showbiz tonight," good jon and kate get back together? and the toxic batchers in hollywood. plus tyra banks weight loss. hi, rhonda -- excuse me, hi, marcia. >> caller: i love your show. >> what is your question? >> caller: have they talked to

the baby's doctor as to when is the last time she had a checkup? >> excellent question. and when is the last time anybody but the parents saw little shannon? >> there are reports somebody saw her early in the morning, and the sheriff's office does not have any information on that. >> the parents are telling police that the baby slept until around 11:00 a.m. so right there the stories have already conflicted. >> well the only way that they could have slept through as i see it is they were on drugs or in a drunken stooper. that does not even make sense. >> that's hard when this baby would be screaming in your ear. okay, lisa from pennsylvania.

what is your question, dear. >> caller: i hope your twins enjoyed their first halloween. and my comment on the whole situation, why would you go to a neighbor? i would pick up the phone and call 911 -- >> 911, select point. michelle, what about it, doctor? >> it's disturbing. i think there are serious questions about the parents. like you said, nancy, the fact that they would be asleep from 11:00 -- from 3:00 a.m. until 11:00 just does not make sense. it just does not make sense. let's stop and remember, marine corporal jason dunham. he gave his life saving fellow marines from a attack. dreamed of being a straight

trooper. air force vet, two brothers, one sister, and jason dunham, american hero. thank you for being with us. especially to our guests. we will see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp, eastern. until then, good night, friend. i am brooke anderson, and here is what is coming up on "showbiz tonight" at the top of the hour. the shocker. are they getting back together? showbiz uncovered the scluz. and then tyra talks about her major weight loss, but didn't she just tell women to accept

themselves the way they are.