right now, on "showbiz tonight," what could be the ultimate jon and kate shocker! are jon and kate getting back together? on tonight's "showbiz tonight" we uncover the clues including kate's confession that she still loves jon. we reveal why jon and kate to be ditching their divorce. and the tyra bank's weight

controversy. wait, isn't this the same tyra that has been telling women accept the way you look and enjoy your body. is tyra being a hypocrite. jessica, could it be that ashley is just a bad actress? tv's first provocative tv show starts right now. ♪ hello, i am a.j. hammer broadcasting tonight and every night from new york city. hi, everybody, i am brooke anderson coming to you from hollywood. tonight are we on the verge of seeing the impossible come true? could jon and kate really be getting back together again? "showbiz tonight" has been digging all day and we have come

up with the clues that we might see the reunion of the century. for the first time since jon and kate announced their divorce, kate revealed her love for jon has not disappeared, and this new revelation comes when jon has asked kate to forgive him for being a jerk. and these developments made for big news breaking today. since they announced their split, it seemed like jon and kate gosselin has been starring in their own new reality show. >> it has gotten mean and nasty and down and dirty, and it was hard to imagine that this pair could have ever been in love. >> we are seeing something different from jon and kate. they are actually making nice. >> do you still love jon? >> a part of me always will. >> last night, kate acknowledged

she would always love jon. >> i was hard on him and will not deny that. >> and she acknowledged something on the show fans noticed years ago. >> could you stop breathing so hard. >> i was wrong to treat him that way. >> i don't think we had seen her admit that she perhaps herself had been wrong. >> and then jon gaosselin apologized back to kate. >> i'm sorry for things i did and do ask for the forgiveness. >> kate is apologizing for being bossy, and jon is apologizing for, well, being jon, and both are sounding nostalgic about the old doays together.

>> they say i wish mommy and daddy could be here at the same time, and i say, i do, too. >> could we be seeing a jon and kate reconciliation. suddenly now, one has to wonder, it might be possible. there could be a jon and kate reunion. >> it's very lonely. >> in her tlc special last night, a tearful kate told natalie morales it's hard to be a tabloid fixture all by herself. >> i am alone as far as i don't have an adult -- a person in my same boat. that's the hard part. >> at his night of atonement, this past weekend, jon said the scrutiny is getting to him.

>> we are seeing both of them saufen at the same time, when both of them have been put under increasingly big microscopes. >> maybe this pressure may bring them together. >> both have been alienated from friends and family and both have been attacked and skrut nized by the media. perhaps they only have each other. >> this could be wishful thinking, but if the earnest couple we all fell in love with years ago could break up, then anything is possible, and maybe even a reconciliation. >> the idea of a big family reunion, of the family torn apart coming together again certainly would make us happy and it would be a great story. >> i don't know. is it really that unthinkable that jon and kate could ditch

the divorce and get back together? joining me tonight senior editor for "star" magazine. and then midwin, i would like to begin with you. kate says she still loves jon. do you see a reunion in their future? >> it's not impossible. she is apologizing and he is apologizing, and i think it's excellent. there are eight beautiful lovely reasons why they need to think it through, and if there is a possibility for reconciliation, then go for it. >> i was struck last night when i heard her on her show talking about how maybe one day jon will call her up. let's take a look at that. >> i still wake up every day and i -- i think the phone will ring, and it will be -- the old

jon. >> that's something she has been saying every since the breakup first happened. does it sound like perhaps jon will call her and that could be the first step of getting back together? >> absolutely 100%, no, no, no. these two are not getting back together. we have to remember, they have got a big divorce -- you know, to finalize. and there is a custody battle in the works. these two will be on their best behavior. especially jon. him saying that he misses kate and made mistakes, and this is a guy that was going around having flings left and right and being with the nanny and all the other women he was with, he will be so good right now. there is a lot of money at stake. kate is the one who is the cash cow here. these two are going to make it

seem as though everything is amicable, and behind the scenes they detest each other and will not be back together. >> it could be a case that they are finally taking advice that so many people including us here at "showbiz tonight." while we have shown you some of the clues pointing to the possibility of a jon and kate reconciliation. the divorce papers have been filed, and the word is that everything could be finalized by the end of the year. jon has still not broken up with his 22-year-old girlfriend, and what about jon moving to new york city? he has his bachelor pad and starting off a new life here and away from the pennsylvania homestead. and let's go with the divorce papers. as the attorney on retainer here tonight on "showbiz tonight," could they rip up the documents

and stop it or has the train left the station? >> well, of course, you can. of course they can stop the train. look, it's not a big deal if they want to get back together again. my goodness. i understand there is a lot of money at stake and they could be putting on a show here because there is money at stake, but i don't think that it's a big deal. >> let's talk about jon's relationship with haily glassman. that's a big obstacle. jon said they have not broken up but they are just slowing down because he does not want to make the same mistakes that he did with kate. now if we look at what is going on the surface, and we look at the possibility of a reconciliation, do you think it would be because kate would be the one taking charge with that and not so much jon? she certainly seems more emotional than jon about it? >> absolutely. kate has the tlc show now, and she is the one that will have another show. she is the one looking out for

the financial stake of the family and of her children, and, you know what? if she has to drag jon back on the show for some kind of reunion, be it something temporarily even just to bring in the viewers, she will do it. >> is that how you see it, midwin, a perspective jon. >> when she says she wishes it was the old jon, i wonder if this was the jon that would allow her to berate him like she did in the first shows. this woman was married to the man. she had eight kids with him. so if she wants to get back together with him, so be it. >> and stranger things have certainly happened. thank you, guys. over to you, and here is the question of the day. jon and kate, do you think they should get back together?

e-mail showbiz tonight at cnn.com. >> i will apologize to her for openly having relationships in the public eye, that was a huge mistake. >> a huge mistake. but jon is not the only famous guy with issues. coming up, hollywood's most toxic bachelors. also, jessica simpson is outraged over her sister being fired from melrose place, but could it be the ashley is just a bad actress? i am just saying. >> we'll have this. >> somebody is driving drunk down -- >> she should know. unbelievable. a woman calls 911 on a drunk driver. herself. it's showbiz caught on tape. >> and now, more from the news room ticker.

you are watching "showbiz tonight" on hnl, and right now watch the bottom of your screen. it's more non-stop provocative news from "showbiz tonight."

did you see this? a forklift accident in moscow caught on tape. the driver lost control of the forklift. talking about driving under the influence. don't worry, the driver is just fine, brooke. welcome back to "showbiz tonigh tonight", i am a.j. hammer in new york. >> i am brooke anderson in hollywood. and a woman called police to report a drunk driver, her most. here is cnn's jeanne moos tonight. >> mary stray did not stray from

doing the right thing, turning in a drunk driver. >> somebody is drunk driving down the road. >> are you behind them. >> i am them. >> you am them? >> yes. >> you want to call and reporter driving drunk? >> yes. >> reporter: she stopped with a blood alcohol level almost twice the legal limit. this is not the first time somebody allegedly driving drunk called 911. it happened just last year in washington state. >> reporter: in fact, he femt

felt so bad, he spoke to a reporter without revealing his identity. >> killing somebody else is the last thing that i wanted to do, and i just started feeling guilty being on the road. >> reporter: remember the michigan police officer called 911 high on pot that he confiscated from suspects. >> i think we are dying. >> reporter: he did not die but he did resign. for those that refer to recline. >> i don't usually drink and driver on it. >> reporter: the recliner has been up forbid on ebay, and this is the famous recliner that anderson crashed into a parked car last year while driving drunk. and other people have motor ize their recliners, but they don't

get bids in the $43,000 range. anderson is not getting the money, the prauk minnesota police are getting it. when it comes to drinking and driving, it's not just us versus them. here is a crazy idea, if you are drunk, don't call the police, just don't drive. that was cnn's jeanne moos. and the phones are ringing off the hook about jon gosselin. >> a >> caller: saying it and meaning it is two different things. >> thank you for your call, cheryl.

>> and then another call from virginia and she says it's definitely time to forgive. >> caller: jon and kate have to forgive each other and they have to do it to parent these children. i still think the show needs to go off the air. >> we appreciate your call, joyce. >> 1-888-stp-buzz. call it and leave a voice mail, and we will play it here on "showbiz tonight." and you remember how she told everybody to kiss her fat ass because women should accept their bodies. now she is showing off her dramatic weight loss. levi johnston, i like to call him the toxic bachelor that

will do anything for money. >> yeah, levi is not the only famous guy with issues, shall we say. hollywood's most toxic bachelors. and for the first time ever, rihanna is breaking her silence and opens up about how she coped with the horrifying event and everything that followed. now the showbiz news ticker. you are watching "showbiz tonight" on hnl, and right now keep watching the bottom of your screen for more provocative news from "showbiz tonight."

for the first time rihanna is breaking her silence and talking about getting beaten up by chris brown. today we learned a one-on-one interview with diane sawyer will air on good morning america. rihanna has been named one of "glamor" magazines woman of the year. she said about the fateful night, quote, i went to sleep@as rihanna, and woke up as britney spears. that's the level of chaos that happened the next day." if there is one positive thing,

people can learn from her situation. this is what she tells glamor. tonight, heath ledger's last movie coming out soon. and tonight we were there, as the casting crew remembered ledger. when he died before the movie was finished, johnny deposit and jude law were hired to play versions of his character. and at the premiere, we were told this. >> it's not what he appears to be. that's the fun part. so he literally said that i was showing the story board to the special effects guys, and he

slipped me a note asking if he could play tony. and he is the one person that won't get to see the movie. here is what is coming up at the bottom of the hour on "showbiz tonight." remember she told everybody to kiss her fat ass? now she is showing off her weight loss. is there something hypocritical going on here? and john mayer has a representation as a ladies' man, but his representation went south and he became two radioactive to date. >> john mayer could be hazardous to your dating health, and he is not the only one. the most toxic bachelors in hollywood. jessica simpson is just outraged her sister got fired from "melrose place", and could it be that ashley is not such a

great actress? now for the "showbiz tonight" news ticker. you are watching "showbiz tonight" on hnl, and i want you to keep watching the bottom of your screen. it's more nonstop and provocative news from "showbiz tonight."

to all of you that have something nasty to say about me or are built like me, i have one thing to say to you, kiss my fat ass. now, the tyra banks' weight controversy. first she tells women to embrace their curves and is she being a hypocrite. and jessica is furious about her sister being fired from "melrose place." could it be ashley is just a bad actress?

>> i would apologize to her for having open relationships in the public. >> they are big time heart breakers. tonight, a showbiz special report. the most toxic bachelors in hollywood. and tv's most provocative entertainment show continues right now. welcome back to "showbiz tonight." it's 30 minutes past the hour. i am a.j. hammer broadcasting tonight and every night from new york city. i am brooke anderson coming to you tonight from hollywood. tonight a special report, has jon gosselin split from kate and his wild antics getting him named the toxic bachelor. and we are talking about the men

in hollywood that seem to have a different girl on her arm every week. and seriously, should we trust him? should women run the other way? he is just one of the many men "showbiz tonight" is naming the top toxic bachelors in hollywood. careful, ladies. they may look handsome and sweet, but these men are toxic. tonight, "showbiz tonight" is rating the most toxic bachelors in hollywood. so who is the most toxic bachelor of them all? we start with a classic hollywood bachelor, musician, john mayer. >> he has one of the most successful representations in hollywood as a ladies' man. >> it seems his second career after a fabulous musician is heartbreaker, from jennifer love hewitt to jessica simpson.

>> he talked about jennifer aniston and his relationship with tmz and talked about their breakup. >> she is the most person i met, and i ended the relationship because i don't want to waste somebody's time if it's not right. >> "showbiz tonight" declares john mayer's toxic rating, three hearts out of five. if you want to improve your record, keep your mouth shut. come to think of it, so should another bachelor. the one and only levi johnston. he is the father of sarah palin's grandson, and a hunka burnin' love, until he opens his mouth. >> levi johnston, i would love to call him the bachelor that

would do anything for money. >> a shirtless photo spread in ""gq"" and an interesting commercial selling pistachio nuts. and he reportedly posed for "play girl." >> is anybody going to tell him that playgirl.com is not a website for women? >> levi johnston, because he is so toxic, i am giving him four toxic hearts. >> and if you want to talk toxic, talk bobby brown. >> he split on me. >> now that he is divorced, ladies, he is eligible. >> so bobby began to look like a

terrible husband, however he spoke to the media himself and did not lash out on whitney, and he did not make it worse. >> how does bobby brown rate on the toxic bachelor sale? >> since he has not been that big of a bachelor this year, he is getting two toxic hearts. >> now for the biggest toxic bachelor of them all, and relatively new to single life, this man has been wreaking havoc one lady at a time. who is this masked man? >> it has to be jon gosselin, mainly because he was going out and gal vanting pretty much with anything with [ bleep ]. >> aside from his soulmate, who says jon gosselin is abusive, he

also has been linked to his baby sitter. kate major said that jon was a major player. >> this was on the first night? >> yeah. >> you kissed on the first night? >> unfortunately, yes. >> jon has to do something to fix his tarnished representation and fast, and unless that happens jon gosselin is officially named the most toxic bachelor of them all. you get five toxic hearts out of five. our "showbiz tonight" facebook fans have been duking it out all day long. and joining me is the senior editor for "star" magazine, and also the senior editor for "in touch weekly." and ladies, jon has been teaming

up with rabbi smoomly. suzanne, are you buying this or once a toxic bachelor always a toxic bachelor? >> i am so not buying this. he obviously is being on his best behavior because he has something called finalizing a divorce coming up and a custody battle, so he is trying to be really good lately. he is even releasing statements that he misses part of kate and he made mistakes, and he is an adult now. but the thing is that once a bachelor always a bachelor. jon will have his flings and they will be quieter, and he broke glassman's heart and he told her to the face over and over that he did not have flings on the side. he is the number one toxic bachelor. >> yeah, he seems to love the

bachelor lifestyle. and holly h writes on the facebook wall. jude law, he is always cheating on his women, and he is cute though, lol. she has a point, he was caught cheating on his wife with the nanny and his brief girlfriend has given birth to their child. how does jude stack up against the other toxic batch lurz? >> yeah, i would be worried about dating him. he doesn't seem to be faithful to the other women that he is with, but he is good-looking and a good actor, and you know what you are getting with john mayer, and he is a player, and he is still a lot of fun so you walk into it and know what you are getting. >> yeah, you have to be very careful with those types. >> john mayer, if you are listening, can you still call me. that's fine. >> you willprepared. sherry m says on the facebook,

chris brown, you guys, he is oozing toxins. absolutely. >> the most annoying thing about him, rihanna releases things about her album and how excited she is, and chris brown has to come out and stomp all over her parade and do the same thing, promoting his album, and this is a guy that offered a poe apology and trying to rebuild his public image and it's not just really working. >> you know, i agree with you. time will tell with that one. interesting many people wrote on the facebook wall that george clooney and gerard butler should be called toxic bachelors. and mary j. rights this. kim, very quickly, is it fair to

crown jon gosselin the most toxic at all? >> yeah, because you never know who is showing up at your door, you never know. >> he does seem like a real womanizer these days. thank you both, and good to see you, ladies. do you remember when tyra banks did the whole kiss my fat ass thing when she was criticized about her weight. tonight tyra is showing off her new big weight loss. i have to ask are these mixed messages bad? is tyra a hypocrite? also, kirstie alley's new show. wait until you hear what she is going to do. and jessica simpson furious with "melrose place" for firing

ashley. but could ashley be canned for being a bad actress? here is the "showbiz tonight" news ticker with what is making news right now. you are watching "showbiz tonight" on hnl. right now keep watching the bottom of your screen for more non-stop and provocative compelling news from "showbiz tonight."

women whose names you know and women whose names you don't and women who have been picked on or girls in school, i have one thing to say to you. kiss my fat ass! >> you remember this? when tyra banks slammed the tabloids in 2007. she sent a great message to women everybody, celebrate your curves, and tonight is tyra being a total hypocrite after dropping a whopping 30 pounds? welcome back to "showbiz tonight," i am a.j. hammer in new york. >> i am brooke anderson in hollywood. and tonight, tyra is revealing

all about how she dropped the bounds, and "showbiz tonight" learned today that kirstie alley is taking her weight loss battle to reality tv. after exposing her failure on weight loss before, is this a good idea? and then is jessica out of line? joining me tonight is the contributing editor for "life and style weekly," and then also our attorney. let's start off with tyra's weight loss revelations. she will reveal her secrets to dropping a whopping 30 pounds. i want to show what you tyra has to say about how she felt pressured by media pressure to do this. >> i was not trying to proclaim

to the world i got fit and in shape, because i felt conflicted after the kiss my fat ass thing, and it's still fat, by the way. i just feel better inside. no more stomach aches. >> right now, you have tyra admitting that people might see her as talking out of both sides of her mouth. midwin, is she? >> i don't. i don't. i think her message is people need to feel comfortable in the skin they are in. and if she did not want to lose 30 pounds, so with it. i don't think it's a hypocrite at all. >> you and i covered the weight controversy two years ago where she was being called out for her weight. she sent a great message. people back then when saying way to go, tyra. and tyra says she embraces her

curves, and yet she lost all the way. do you think she can have it both ways or will people call her a hypocrite? >> i think people will call her a hypocrite no matter what she does. i don't think she is sending mixed messages personally. she is still curvy and looks great, and it's sending a message about good health. we need to strive to be as fit and healthy as possible. when i say that tyra is sending a great message, i don't think that i am alone here. rachel, are you with me on this one? >> i am with you, and midwin. she never signed up to be a poster child for plus-sized women. she was standing up and sticking up for all shapes and sizes that don't want to be judged. it doesn't matter whether she weighs 130 or 160 she is a great inspiration for women everybody.

and a & e confirmed kerr stae r kirstie alley is doing a weight loss show. she lost over 70 pounds as a spokesperson for jenny craig, and then she gained over 80 pounds back. i have been among those rooting for kirsti all along. perhaps she is setting herself up for failure again. >> i applaud her for doing this. it's difficult to kind of share your inner battles and struggles with the world. and oprah did this too, and lost weight and gained it and came back and ran a marathon and put back weight on. it's just what people go through, and if she wants to share that with people, i think that's a really good thing. >> we want her to be her healthiest, but doing it in public, is that good for her? >> i love her on tv, and now she

is going to be on a & e. how good could this show get, really? >> yeah, somehow it will be funny because it has kirstie alley. jessica blasting "melrose place" for firing ashley. look at what she tweeted. i know jessica is doing the big sister thing here, protecting ashley, but the buzz elsewhere is that ashley was fired because, well, she is a terrible actress. do you think that jessica is making herself look silly by coming out like this? >> i wonder too what jessica has going on with her career or lack there of, and subject to debate and argument.

it's entirely possible that her sister was not the best actress for "melrose place." she needs to tweet about something else. >> do you think it was think je jumping up and down. now ashley is getting the bad press and she gets to tick up for her. >> and she has a little sisterly lo on the outside but may be feeling differently on the inside. thanks, guys, i appreciate you being here. >> tonight, the big time custody battle. sandra is fighting her husband's exwo-wife for custody of their 5-year-old daughter. it is sandra verses her husband's ex, the porn queen. these are more stories from the "showbiz tonight" nooewsroo that are making news right now.

you are watching "showbiz tonight" and right now i wan you to keep on watching the bottom of your screen for more non-stop compelling news.

tonight, talk about falling stars. mariah almost fell flat on her face. >> please welcome mariah carey. >> thanks for coming. >> when i tripped i had choreographed that earlier. >> right. >> it was a plan just to make jay nervous. >> those are amazing shoes.

>> do you like them? look what happened backstage. that's loose. >> oh. it is so abusive when they cannot make shoes properly. >> i was watching the guys in the audience and that is the first thing their eyes went too. >> i have got hand it to her. she was on the show promoting her new film precious. i have got to tell you her performance as a social worker is getting big oscar buzz. you have come a long way since glitter. >> but she missed a step. now we have a bizarre story. let me explain this is a little complicated. sandra is married to jesse james while his exwas in prison for

tax evasion. she is a hard core porn actress. she wrote a letter to the judge saying she feared for the little girl. and even more concerning, the condition the girl will be in. her husband's exhas spent the last few months in a half way house. jams and bullock have been awarded temporary custody. >> on monday with asked you to vote on our question of the day. just moments ago we got the final result. john begs kate for forgiveness. 59% say nope. here are some of the e-mails. if kate is truly wanting to do what is best for the kids, she

will forgive him when he straightens his act up. and why can't anybody see through john and his fake apology. this is a guy who really only thinks of himself and not his family. >> that is sit for us tonight. >> and remember you can catch "showbiz tonight" on the 11s. 11 p.m. eastern and pacific and in the morning on hln. take care. coming up, does she miss him on the ratings? jon and kate and the divorce that just won't go away. also, how to go from child star to met addict to mom in three easy steps. and i talk to women that are addicted to babies. these women can give the octomom a run for her money in the

birthing department any day. that and more on tonight's show.

tonight, kate gosselin keeps on talking about john. and jay leno says he would like to talk, but on his old show. and child star jodie sweetin, she talked about life after "full house." she will be here to discuss. >> and evangelical women who have as many as 18 kids because they believe children are a gift from god. couldn't they ask god for a crock pot. all that and more tonight.

okay, this week rihanna, a singer, jay leno, a comic and kate gosselin, the reality show star. how she's handling her split from jon. >> i don't let out how hard sit very much. i'm wake in the middle of the night. thinking. am i making the best decision? so i have meltdowns. i have nights where the weirdest dumbest thing will make me fall apart. >> night sweats? i think she's going through menopause. when she referred to the

weirdest, dumbest thing, is she referring to jon? joining me have caroline rhea, joe levy. caroline, let me start do you. she apologized for being so mean to jon ron the show. sit too late for them to get back together? >> hasn't this woman suffered enough with that hair cut? >> and the rest of america. >> when prince charming left snow white, she missed him, too. she needs a personal assistant. first of all, people don't know this, i don't know if you have children yet. your libido is in your placenta and it's removed at birth. very smart mammals eat theirs. >> where are you getting your information? >> i have a baby. and after eight children? >> maybe her brain was in her placenta. not her libido. >> i feel bad for her.

>> she said she's still in love with jon. >> you to still love jon? >> a part of me always will. it's hard to be married to somebody, i think, for ten years and try to say, no, i don't love them anymore. it doesn't really work really well. um -- i love the memories that we have together. of the good times. >> oh, the good times. i'm sure she means good times like these. >> the white sandals. >> i'm saying flip-flops. let them wear what they want to wear so i don't have to hear it all day? >> so we lose their shoes and they have nothing to wear? i have enough to keep track of. stand with me or stand against me. >> i'll talk in here. >> fun, fun, fun. >> that is riveting tv. that is good stuff.

can we roll the rest of that? i want to see what happens with the shoes. >> i want to see her go in the room, that where she keeps his -- oh, i'm sorry. >> she hasn't slammed jon since they split. is she taking the high road or worrying about her career? >> i think it's a combination. it's like a death when you split up with somebody. of course, then there's the cynical part of me that says, she's been pr savvy, trying to make sure she has a career after the marriage has dissolved. >> it's hard to take pauses like that. >> jon, by the way, is getting counseling from rabbi schmuley. is he a reformed man? >> i think he's maybe not the ticket.

>> i love him in "kosher sex." >> perhaps the best way to apologize to your wife and children is not in public at a jewish center. >> you look directly into the camera and say, your turn. i can't believe kate gosselin pimped her children. >> that baby has better hair than kate. >> if i could buy eight of these. everyone is going to be ovulating because she's so cute. >> we're having women on later with 18 children. let's switch gears. jay leno said if the nbc suits asked him to, he would return to the "tonight" show. >> they're 12-year-olds that run

that network. >> should conan be worried? >> just because he's been following jay for years. they make a change, they put conan on the "tonight" show, and they put jay in front of him. i'm available, too. if the nbc suits ask me to do it, i would. >> he's on the tonight show in daylight savings. i would be so mad if i were conen. they shouldn't have let him stay. >> jay should be mad, too. they ruined his career. >> really? drive around one of your 452 cars and go tell jokes and leave conan alone. >> don't you think they forced him out? they want the younger version, you and i should be annoyed at

and you two maybe soon. >> excuse me, i am way closer to their age. thanks a lot. this is getting a little brutal. >> i believe joe and i are almost the same age. >> letterman's numbers have gone up since the sex scandal. 13% increase in the ratings. >> it's hilarious. he didn't commit the ultimate sin of ratings, which is switching time slots. jay's fans are like, wait, you're in a 10:00 time slot. >> why do people not care. i understand if it's a nurse and a doctor, she passes him the wrong skap scalpel, and somebody dies. this is a comedian, he's beloved by all and -- >> what kind of a blanket statement is that? >> i love letterman. >> you don't seem to love leno. >> apparently you have a bitter

romance with him. >> you love leno more than letterman. >> i do. i don't think this would have happened to leno. >> plenty of people have dated him. >> you am i looking at any of them? >> i've been married forever. >> you are not married! >> i am in a relationship just like that. i am as good as married. >> i am in a relationship just like that. >> goody for you. >> i'm in a relationship just like sitting here right now. >> any way, i think that letterman's numbers went up because people went there for the sex scandal and stayed. >> people tuned in for the sex scandal and stayed. nobody had a reason to check. they were lulled to sleep by jay

leno saying, you know what happened today? something happened. and it was funny. >> i will not have in assault on jay leno on this show. >> aren't we allowed to have opinions? are should we be like we love jay leno. >> i'm going fire right back. who do you think is going to retire first? letterman or leno? they're in the same age bracket. like us. >> you know what, i swear to god. your age is on the tip of my tongue. >> we can bleep anything. >> faye dunaway once said to me, people our age. i said, excuse me. i'm in my 40s, you're over 100. do not combine our ages. >> who do you think will retire first? letterman or leno?

>> oh, goodness. i don't know. >> what is conan is the first one to retire? >> it seems like leno will take his cars, go on the road and do his own thing. >> leno works in vegas. he spends not one dime of his television money. lives on the comedian money. >> what does he do with the television money? >> he stores it in the cars, i don't know. >> he's thinking of buying oprah. >> this was so much fun to see you guys. come again. >> be more sincere. >> i'm serious. if you're in new york city saturday, catch caroline rhea at the new york comedy festival. stories you won't read in a parents magazine.

i'm sorry, but it's time for your appointment. >> what appointment would that be? >> your hair cut appointment with mister stephanie. >> uncle jesse doesn't want to play beauty parlor. >> yes, he does. >> know he doesn't. >> yes he does. >> no he doesn't. >> it's an old story by now. a big star as a child and a bigger mess as a young adult. my next guest knows that all too well. she went from a child star to being addicted to crystal meth. she chronicles it in her new book, "unsweetined." let's talk about your life. you had your first drink at 14 years of age. >> i did. i was around 13 or 14? >> where were you?

>> i was at candace cameron's wedding. that was the first time i remember drinking and getting drunk. it was ugly. >> what was it? >> red wine. >> good for your heart but not at 14. >> and not when you drink three bottles at once. they started pouring where i was sitting. they went around the table, i drank the whole glass, they poured more. it was an indication, as much as i could get as quickly as i could get. >> was anybody watching you? >> my mom was upset because i was sitting all the way across the room at a different table. my mom thought, this is not -- >> she wanted to keep an eye on you? >> yeah.

she knew i would get myself in trouble. and i did. i did. that was the beginning of a history of the -- the drinking and using and using that as sort of a way to cope. >> the next thing was you drank in high school, you smoked pot. >> i drank in high school, smoked pot here and there. didn't experiment are harder drugs until college. it wasn't a frequent thing. i was drinking then. my drinking got out of control quickly in college. >> the crystal meth? >> that didn't start until my early 20s. between the time of going college and starting my heavier drug use. i was sober for a little over two years. i wasn't in recovery doing the things i needed to do to remain sober, but i wasn't drinking or using at that time. >> you got married? >> i got married when i was 20. >> you married a policeman? >> i did.

a little into our marriage i started drinking again. i thought maybe it would be different this time. i started drinking again, but you know, it became easier to hide the drug use than it was to hide the drinking. >> from a cop. >> yeah. >> how did you do that? >> it took a lot -- it was a lot of emotionally exhausting covering lies. it was constantly trying be two people and make up excuses for where i was, what i was doing, who i was with. >> did people detect anything? i was reading that the side effects of crystal meth are slurred speech, incessant conversation. sweating convulsions? it would be hard not to notice. like the person who would be

with you would be purposely not noticing. >> what's frightening is that my behavior was a little erratic at times. i wouldn't show up, i would be late. the things you mentioned, i didn't have those sorts of side effects. >> you didn't? >> i would be up all night. he wouldn't be home, he worked all night. i would pretend to be sleeping. and then i would get up when really i hadn't slept and continue going. he would sleep in the day and go back to work at night. >> how did they find out? >> the story i talk about in the book, i was drinking and using one night, i managed to get really drunk and wind up with acute alcohol poisoning and heart arrhythmia. i got out of my friend's car while she was driving down the street and passed out on the sidewalk for about an hour. while they were deciding what to

do, they were freaking out because they didn't want to let the police know because my husband worked this that area. there was a lot going on. i wound up going the hospital and you know, some friends found the drugs in my purse and told my husband about it. that was how everything came down the first time. so it was, you know, wasn't my own choice to get sober. i knew i needed to do something different. >> you were forced into it? >> i knew i needed to change things but i wasn't at a point in my life where i was ready to get honest. >> you had a couple of setbacks after that. we'll be right back with more from jodie sweetin.

nobody's in here. steph, what are you doing here? >> just hanging around. >> she grew up in front of america on the sitcom "full house." but she did drugs behind closed doors. i'm back with jodie sweetin. your story is so familiar in a certain way to people who watch television. the list of child stars with trouble with drugs and alcohol, britney spears, todd bridges,

tatum o'neal. corey feldman. michael jackson. what is the reason that child stars have such troubles, do you think? there are some that didn't. >> there are some that didn't. i think that there are two things. it's kind of what came first, the chicken or the egg.

the personality type that is drawn to performing and talent and that stuff has sort of some of the issues of insecurity and they're compensating by performing. are those things that might be underlying the addictive behavior? and then do all of the permissiveness of being in the business, growing up in an adult business, being allowed to do things at an early age? i think it's a combination of things. >> were you unprotected by the family. >> not at all. my family was incredibly involved. my mom was with me on the set every day. my dad was a normal working parent. i came from a normal, unhollywood background. >> you've got b better, obviously. you have a child now. >> i do, i have zoe, almost 19 months old. she's amazing. she's the light of my life. she really, really is. she's helped me in getting sober. >> how is your financial situation? did you save your money? >> i had. i had invested it in a house and things like that. i blew a lot of it. but, you know, things are a lot

better now. i'm back working again and doing, you know, trying to get back in doing what i love. it's been a struggle and i wasn't always responsible with my money. i was able to -- to -- >> the term young and foolish. that was you. >> i know. >> you're not now. we have a get from somebody that tweeted us. what is the one piece of advice you could give every child star? >> i would say find somebody that you can talk to that you trust. that goes across the board. it's different as a child star. there are not a lot of people to relate to. try and find somebody you can be honest with. >> you should have your parents. >> you do. but i think somebody that has been through it. there are a lot of thing that nobody else, unless they've been through it, can really understand. >> like some of the ones that did well, like ron howard. an example of somebody that did well. thank you for coming. >> thank you so much. >> back in a minute. llllll

i'm destiny, i'm 8 years old. >> i'm judah. i'm 10. >> i'm heather, i'm 18. >> i'm courtney, i'm 15. >> i'm shawn, i'm 26. >> i would love to have more children. after leviticus, we haven't had more. >> most of us are familiar with the octomom, jon and kate, and the duggars. the woman you just saw is part of a fast growing christian movement called quiverfull.

here with me is kathryn joyce, author of "quiverfull: inside the christian patriarchy movement," rachel scott, mother of eight and author of "birthing god's mighty warriors." tell us what quiverfull is. >> it's a movement of largely conservative kris yans who believe that all or most forms of contraception are wrong. christian families should leave

their birth control in the hands of god. some different booksly leaders of the movement have pointed out for a collateral benefit of having many children within the conservative christian movement. they follow psalm 127. that's where they get the name quiverfull from. they follow strict definitions with submissive wives and headship of the husbands. >> rachel, you're a quiverfull person. are you a submissive wife? >> i believe we have an equal partnership. in matters of dispute, i would say we make decisions as team. i think submission is misunderstood. >> it's not the total patriarchy that i saw. >> i don't think so, no. >> vicki, do you believe? >> i think there's the potential

there, the teaching there. i believe each family carries to it their own -- in our family, it went to the extreme. defending on the personality of the family that you're involved with, you can get carried away with it. >> some husbands are more patriarchal than others. >> that makes sense. >> your book is called "birthing god's mighty warriors." it makes it sund like a crew said. >> we believe one of the things god has called us to do is birth children. be fruitful and multiply was a commandment to the entire earth to have children.

it's not a new concept. >> to what? >> to birth children, procreate. >> that was written by god, yes. >> he's a man. >> he is. i do believe he loves women. >> certainly does, all those kids, just shows you. i'm so -- i have to zwroump something before i get to the political part of this. who breast feeds these kids. >> i have eight i breast fed them all. >> do you have twins of triplets in there? >> no. >> you popped them out and breast fed all your children one at a time. >> yes. did you not breast feed? >> i only had one. i don't know if i could do it eight times. >> i didn't pop mine out. i didn't pop mine out. i had a very difficult time. >> how many do you have? >> seven children. five by c-section. it was quite a -- >> what do you say to people, maybe kathryn can answer this, that say you're having children for political purposes. you're trying to repopulate the world with babies that you

produce. and that it's not just about having a baby to have children and ah have a family life but to make a point, to recreate the earth. >> for us, i believe we're just, we believe that we're being blessed with these children. we're not doing it for a political purpose. we're doing it for a spiritual purpose. we want the be on god's team. he said to populate the earth and we are. >> do you feel the same way about islamic families doing that? do you think that it is god's will? >> when god said be fruitful and multiply it was not for a specific religion. it was for people of the earth. >> i think there's truth to what both of you are saying. families having this large of a number of children. that's a very demanding thing.

i don't think political issues could encourage them to do that. i think a lot of literature of the movement, i reviewed it, there is a sense that in addition to quiverfull being god's will and god's law to be fruitful and multiply to trust god to give you as many children as you can handle, there's a secondary set of motivations written in there by the leaders, saying, if several generations

of christians put their fertility in god's hands, within a few decades, we'll have a vast group of people. >> what do you say to that? >> the fastest growing segment of society are latinos. >> they're mostly christians. >> catholic? i would say historically they have been. they're the fastest growing segment of who is actually producing in our society. >> are you trying to keep up with them? >> uh, no, not necessarily. i believe christian influence will gain more power as we have more children. that's not the motivation. we're doing it because it's something god wants us to do. our country needs an answer right now. family is the answer. there's nothing greater than a family. i believe it's the answer for our world. >> it's an expensive thing that you're doing. to have all those children in this culture is expensive. what does your husband do? do you work? >> i work part time. my husband is a construction executive. for us, we live in an affluent area but it has not always been

that way. we have paid our dues. >> when we come back, i want to hear more about the physiological part of this. i was not thrilled with one pregnancy, much less 8 or 18. stick around. there could be more babies when we get back. >> i believe conceiving children and giving birth is an act of worship. i believe you're submitting to god's goal for the planet and god's goal for you as a woman. to me, it's the most beautiful thing to watch unfold just about in the whole world. that is when a woman embraces her own motherhood.

there's eight of them here. the one crying just came home, jonah.

right there is, who's that? this is noah. jeremiah is right there. >> we're back talking with families with multiple children. how to i'm sure you're all familiar with the octomom. she has 14 children at this point. she has no husband, she was on welfare. not part of the movement, i don't think. how would you help this woman? she has no husband no, income. >> i think she should pray a lot. >> i think she does that. >> get as much outside help as she can. to do what she's doing by herself is incredible. she needs a lot of people to help her.

>> would you help her? would you take her into your fold? your quiver people? >> sure, i would help her. i think she is on the other side of the country. >> i'm interesting in the physiology of it. you said carrying, you had a hard time with that. now you're divorced. how are you managing? >> my oldest daughter, to tell the truth, i relied on her help. we were efficient, extremely organized.

we came up with some really creative ideas of how to get it all done. well, how to try to get it all done. we really didn't. we were falling behind in every area. i was falling behind in the home schooling. i couldn't keep up. my oldest daughter burned out, she was 18. she had just had it. >> she had a suicide attempt. i saw the film piece about her. i think she was overburdened by the work of it. >> absolutely. >> you couldn't handle it. it fell to her. >> somebody pays the price. i think it's the girls. >> is your older girl paying the price? >> from the beginning, i purposed my kids would have a life. they're very active in school. for me, they helped. but they have all these other things they do. >> since you don't practice birth control, you believe you should have children as long as god wants you to, do you ever say, i have a headache? >> i was so exhausted. i had a vision i had an inspiration this was my purpose

that the lord had given me. i was determined to do it whatever the cost. if it was going kill me, i would do it. >> it almost did, and your daughter. >> it was that vision, that extremely inspiring idea of this beautiful, this perfect family and that is what i was going for. i was really wants to do the lord's will, his best plan for the family, which i believed was defined in the bible. there was a very narrow idea of what is a family, what is the right correct godly family. that's what i was going for. >> it didn't work for you. it did for you, not for her. human people are into this. >> there have not been any scientific studies. no hard numbers. my estimate is it's probably if the low tens of thousands, maybe 20,000 to 30,000 based on

different memberships in online forums. >> what do you say to people that say it's selfish to keep having these children. there are so many children to adopt. what do you say to that? >> a lot of families from quiverfull adopt. they have a few and start adopting. the more the merrier thing with a lot of the families. i would consider it. you love kids. >> you want to adopt more kids?

>> we're thinking about it. >> how much does it cost the feed them? >> it's expensive. >> the old ses how old? >> he's 26. have i seven at home and grandchild. >> and the other thing about this thing is that you home-school all the children. you're cooking, cleaning, wiping the nose, they get sick in the night, fall off the swing and you have to teach them, too, and have sex with your husband constantly, i cant take it. i can't imagine day at your house. >> not everyone in the movement home schools. i don't. have i done it off and on. as, what i believe about home schooling is pray and ask god about it. >> how do you have time to coif and put makeup on? you look so good. >> you have to be organized. it's a zoo around the house sometimes. you have to be organized. >> what is your status? are you mare rid? >> i am divorced. i have five children still at home, two are in college. it's a zoo at our house. we have a great time. the restrictions we have thrown them away. we have said, let's go for it, be ourselves. do what comes naturally. we don't have prescribed rules anymore. this is god's will for you.

but it's basically, let's figure out. >> what is god's provision for divorce? what if you don't get along with your husband? a lot of people in the country get divorced. what happens then? >> in my mind there was no provision for divorce. i believed there was no -- >> so what happens? you're stuck? a miserable marriage then? >> i had convinced myself that i was not stuck, i enjoyed it, i was fine with it. i was when i finally had the near breakdown after my daughter attempted suicide that i had to re-evaluate it all. i had to say look at the situation, what it actually is, not what it can be, what god could make of it. what is it actually? actually, i can't take this. >> how are the children doing now that you're out of the quiverfull?

>> they're just blooming, blossoming. >> how is angel doing? >> she's doing much better. >> do you know how many of these quiverfull families split up? >> i don't know how many. but i thing i would reiterate what vicki said. from a lot of the literature, a lot of biblical womanhood literature. it stresses that divorce is not an option. it's your duty to make marriage work. >> that sounds too restr strres to me. this patriarchy thing, tets talk about it. you say you're in an equal relationship. >> when kathryn wrote her book, i think she confused some things. >> i think rachel is -- i'm very

glad to hear that'll that you're in an equal regs ship i think in a lot of the movement -- >> she sounds fine. >> i think in a lot of the movement, there's an overwhelming emphasis on wives' duties to be submissive to their husbands. >> it works. of it. the catholic church keeps records on how many people that don't use birth control divorce, it's 1%. >> if you wanted to get a divorce and got half a dozen kids, you don't have a lot of options there. it's a scary thing. >> yeah. >> very hard for women to leave when most of them, you work part time, but i think most women in the quiverfull movement do not have a college degree. >> oh, no, that is so not true. >> the younger women are being encouraged not to go to college. >> maybe in a very, very remote segment. quiverfull -- we're talking a lot of people have college educations who decide to have large families. it's everywhere now. it's definitely changing.

>> yeah. we'll be back in a minute.

we're back talking about the quiverfull movement. you were saying, rachel, god is a feminist. >> absolutely. >> what do you mean? >> when god was creating the earth he created eve, created adam. then he brought eve. eve was his crowning glory. eve was woman and god said, okay, i'm stopping creation. i'm done. i've created the greatest masterpiece. >> patriarchies scare me because when men are in charge of everything it almost follows women are subjugated. i like it when women are in

charge. i grew up in an italian matriarch. the women told everybody what to do. i like that better. >> something that's interesting about the quiverfull movement, though, i found that a lot of times it is the woman who leads the family into the quiverfull and patriarchy. they're the ones going to the conventions, buying the books, reading the material and saying it's a way to say, i need a husband who is more of a leader who takes more charge of what's going on and is more involved. that was my motivation really. i was saying, you know, i had a husband who i felt i would really appreciate if he would step up more with the child raising, with the -- >> that's everybody's complaint. is your husband good like that? >> he's awesome. to answer her, a reason women are doing this, there's a backlash against feminism. feminism took us out of the home and put us in careers which is

awesome because it won us rights we needed. women are coming back. "time" magazine came out last week, women aren't happy. >> too many things to do maybe. too much stress. >> women need to get back in the home. >> i have to take issue with that because your life sounds very stressful to me. like, you have too much to do without a career. >> yeah, there's balance, though, as long as you're -- >> to me it's less stressful to go to work and have a job than stay home with 0 kids. >> there's no balance saying i will take all the children god will give me.

there's no balance to say i'll continue to reproduce and reproduce. >> i think it depends on your marriage and situation. >> how many more do you want to have? >> i would to have more. >> how old are you? how old are you? >> 48. >> oh, forget it. time to adopt. time to adopt, rachel. you can have some nice adoption situations going on. >> i started a ministry to africa in my garage with a man we met from africa and we're talking to him about getting children from there from his orphanage. >> i want to jump back a minute if that's okay, regarding feminism. i think it's great that that's what you believe and you see god as a feminist. in most of my reporting and reading on this, i would think that was an unorthodoxed view within the movement because a lot of the founding movement and books written about this today about this movement are deeply anti-feminist. >> i have to make that the last word. just going to have to subjugate yourself to katherine. you were very good, though. thank you all, very much, ladies. these ladies will be appearing on the show "secret lives of women born to breed." a week from today at 10:00 p.m. on we tv. thanks to my other guests as well and good night, everybody.

breaking news tonight. live, ohio. cops raid the home of a convicted rapist accused of yet another sex attack. inside his three-story cleveland home, seasoned detectives stunned. women's bodies hidden throughout. bodies on every floor of the home. even stuffed in crawl spaces. bombshell tonight. our prediction last night, unfortunately, comes true. even more women's bodies discovered. body count so far -- ten dead women. all hidden in the home of former marine anthony sowell. investigators now prepare to

tear down the walls, literally scouring every square inch of sowell's three-story cleveland home in search of even more victims. tonight, unsuspecting neighbors in shock over an alleged serial killer living amongst them. >> today, this morning our homicide unit along with the cuyahoga county coroner's office, went back to the scene, which has been secured ever since day one. during the course of their investigation throughout the day we have discovered approximately four more bodies in the back yard and a skull in a bucket in the basement. the skull was discovered wrapped in a paper bag in a bucket in the basement. >> dead bodies on every level of the home, including stuffed in the crawl space. my prediction -- there will be more. >> ten bodies found at the home of convicted rapist anthony sowell. the dig continues, as he put it, as they continue to search.

>> it appears this man has an insatiable appetite that he had to fill. that's how it appears. and everything's right there at that location. >> people did complain about over and over again that that place really, really smelled and he reeked. but they thought it was that sausage factory running behind him or the fact he's just some semi-homeless bum who doesn't take a shower very often. they just discounted it. >> we did not have information concerning the smells, et cetera. so as far as the police dropped the ball, i wouldn't say we dropped the ball. we were very diligent in what we did. and breaking tonight live, the florida panhandle. a close-knit community reeling after a newborn baby girl sleeping in the same bedroom as her parents vanishes without a trace. halloween. the story becomes even more distorted. but tonight we want to know who took baby shannon.

>> investigators in the panhandle of florida need your help. they're looking for a 7-month-old girl who disappeared and may be in danger. >> cops say shannon's parents told investigators shannon slept in the same bedroom as they did. shannon allegedly snatched from that bedroom sometime between 3:00 and 11:00 a.m. on halloween. >> the sheriff said nothing indicates she was abducted. but he also said she "didn't crawl or walk away." >> the child obviously did not walk or crawl out of the home. i don't understand why the police are saying there's no foul play. you have a 7-month-old baby lying there asleep in the home. now, she's gone. >> they seem to be pointing fingers directly at the parents. >> neighbors now speaking out, saying they saw a gray van near shannon's home that night. investigators expanding the search area for a 7-month-old girl who they say did not walk or crawl away. good evening.

i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. breaking news tonight live, ohio. cops raid the home of a convicted rapist accused of yet another sex attack. inside his three-story cleveland home, seasoned detectives stunned. women's bodies hidden throughout. bodies, dead women on every floor of the home. some of them even stuffed into the crawl spaces. bombshell tonight. our prediction last night unfortunately comes true. even more women's bodies discovered in the last 24 hours.

body count so far, ten dead women that we know of. all hidden in the home of former marine anthony sowell. >> breaking news coming to us from cleveland. more discoveries at the home of a rape suspect. >> we have discovered approximately four more bodies in the back yard and a skull in a bucket in the basement. >> that would raise the total to ten bodies found under this man's home. this is almost starting to reach jeffrey dahmer-type proportions. >> also today the suspect, anthony sowell, approximately 4:00 this afternoon, he was charged with five counts of aggravated murder on john does at this point right now. he's also charged with rape, kidnapping, and felonious assault, an initial complaint that led to us that house two days ago. >> six bodies have been found at the home of a convicted rapist anthony sowell. well, this morning four more bodies were found. so now we're up to ten. >> six missing women found dead. there's going to be more. there are going to be more than six women. >> we continue just to dig it up just to make sure we covered all our bases. as we were doing that, we discovered four more bodies in the back yard. the dig continues. >> the dig continues in the home

of former marine anthony sowell. so far police have excavated and found ten dead women. out to dan haggerty joining us from wews, outside sowell's home right now, cleveland suburbs, dan haggerty, thank you for being with us. >> thanks. >> they found four more dead bodies so far. how did they not see four dead women yesterday? where were the bodies hidden? >> well, they've been digging. we've seen them all day in the back yard. of course, you know as soon as they start finding something they start throwing the tarps up and keeping the camera lenses from seeing exactly what was going on there. but when i showed up early this morning, they started finding stuff. the tarp started going up. and i'll tell you, i'd say 100 or so people have been gathering on this street here. and right behind me -- the backhoe back there. so they were doing some pretty

serious excavating back there. but you should have seen the looks on the people's faces on the streets here every time you saw the medical examiner's -- back down that street to put yet another body in the van. you've been saying it. four more bodies as well as a skull that they found in the basement. that makes ten bodies total. also, anthony sowell is going to be arraigned tomorrow. again, five counts of aggravated murder. as well as the rape, felonious assault, and kidnapping. that was from back in september. and that's what actually brought police to the home just on thursday -- looking for him. he wasn't there. but they found the bodies instead. >> everybody, we are taking some hits on our satellite. joining us there outside sowell's home right now where the dig is continuing for even more dead women, dan haggerty joining us from wews. dan, again, thank you for being

with us. this is something i don't understand, dan. the woman said she had been raped by sowell back in september. why were police just getting there in november? >> well, i don't want to speculate to what police were doing in the meantime. i assume they were collecting evidence to put together a hard case in order to come here and make the arrest. we know he was a sex offender. he registered. he was a tier 3 sex offender. so he actually had to go to the sheriff -- tell them where he was living, where he was working every 90 days. we believe it was sometime during the summer they stopped over here and did a surprise check with him and the sheriff's office didn't report anything suspicious to police at the time. the woman who was assaulted in september according to the police report went to police then. it took them a series of weeks to put together a case, i assume. and that's when they came here

to serve the warrant. they went inside looking for sowell and found only two bodies in the attic that were so badly decomposed they couldn't even tell the sex at the time. and a shallow grave in the basement. obviously, this story continues to get worse as the days go on. >> dan haggerty with us, wews, joining us in front of the home of anthony sowell, former marine. he did his time as a marine. he did several years. i believe five to seven years with the marines. he was honorably discharged. he was stationed in north carolina and california, as i recall. then, after he got out of the marines, he did 15 years behind bars on a rape. i don't know why he was walking the streets. apparently, he did his time. they didn't have any more holds on him. so they had to let him go. and this is what happened. correct me if i'm wrong, jean casarez, legal correspondent joining us from "in session." jean, didn't he just get out, and wasn't it 2005 he got out on a 15-year stint in the pen for rape? >> he was convicted of two counts of attempted rape, 1990

through 2005 released. so there's been four years now, nancy, that he has been living in that home, a home that's owned by his stepmother. and the four bodies that were just found in the last 24 hours, nancy, were in the back yard. they were under the earth. they were in graves back there. >> to stacy newman, our producer on the story. stacey, it's my prediction that they will find -- that at the beginning -- and i'm using 2005, when he got out of the pen, as the beginning. he was more careful in hiding the bodies. but then going on ten bodies he started getting careless and did not hide them as well. tell me what you know, stacey newman, about the neighbors. it's my understanding they noticed something bizarre and they complained to their city councilman. >> this is a big bone of contention tonight, nancy. neighbors are reporting they

smelled a foul odor for years in this neighborhood including a city councilman that called the health inspector wanting to know where the stench is coming from. now, there is a sausage company in this neighborhood, nancy, ray's sausage. everyone believed the smell was coming from the sausage company. fast-forward to today. uh-oh. coming from decomposing bodies inside sowell's home. >> well, another thing. back to dan haggerty joining us outside of sowell's home -- everybody, we're taking your calls live. this is a stunning turn of events. seasoned detectives go in the home on a rape charge. they have now found in the last 48 hours 10 dead women there in the chicago suburbs. and i guarantee you, haggerty, if they go and they look at california and north carolina, where he was stationed with the marines, there are going to be women there that have never been found, never been accounted for. dan haggerty, who are these ten women so far? >> well, police haven't said.

we don't know at this point right now. but we know there are a whole lot of people who are showing up in this neighborhood, dozens of missing women and their families and their loved ones that have been showing up here and trying to figure out if their loved ones are one of the bodies inside of this home. >> as soon as the incident took place and the s.w.a.t. unit made entry and discovered the two decomposed bodies on the third floor, we put zone car personnel in the house and we secured the location. but at no time did we ever leave the scene. there was always police personnel on point to make sure everything was secure. >> send us your favorite family photos for our upcoming n.g. family album. go to cnn.com/nancygrace.

yellow crime tape stretched around the corner from 12205 imperial avenue today. cleveland police brought in heavy machinery to literally help them dig for evidence in the back yard of the house where 50-year-old anthony sowell lived. police officers and a team from the coroner's office watched to see what was unearthed. and by early afternoon it was clear they had found something. experts wearing masks and special suits scurried around the house where just days ago police discovered six dismembered and decomposing bodies. >> we already have half a dozen dead women in his home that we know of? and i'm predicting there's going to be more? >> and now five days after that gruesome discovery another two body bags were loaded into two

coroner vehicles and taken away. and police believe there could be more. >> we have discovered approximately four more bodies in the back yard. >> the face of a suspected mass murderer. >> the suspect, anthony sowell, approximately 4:00 this afternoon he was charged with five counts of aggravated murder. he was also charged with rape, kidnapping, and felonious assault. >> as we go to air, the dig continues in the cleveland suburbs. we now know of ten dead women found in anthony sowell's three-story home. including the back yard. we predict there will be more. joining me outside sowell's home this evening, dan haggerty with wews. dan, where in the home were the women hidden? >> well, they were hidden pretty much all over the house, nancy. there were some in the attic. that's where they were first discovered. two bodies that were so badly decomposed, we were told, that they couldn't even determine a sex right away. they also found bodies in a crawl space below some stairs.

they found a skull inside of a bucket in the basement. they also found bodies buried outside behind the home. and we just saw police leaving with some of their bigger equipment, they had a backhoe there all day. they just pulled that out of there. i'm sure they're starting to shut things down slowly for the night. but they're going to be out tomorrow looking for more. >> now, you said that the bodies were found in the back yard. you're also telling me that families of missing women across cleveland are now gathering outside the home, wondering if their daughter, their mother, their sister, their wife are one of these women. >> well, you know what? for the past several months i know of a couple big stories we've had around here since around springtime, april and may. there have been posters looking for missing women. and these are all ages. these are women in their late teens all the way to in their 40s that you've seen in

convenience stores, that we saw at different gas stations. these posters looking for these women. well, now all of a sudden there are ten bodies showing up at this house in this neighborhood where a lot of these women were known to live, were known to be at times, and these families are showing up asking, is this my daughter? like you said, is this my mother? >> can you imagine standing on the other side of that yellow crime scene tape wanting to know every time they pull out a gurney with a woman's body covered in a sheet, is that my daughter? is that my mother? >> hundreds of people. and it started over the weekend. it started on thursday and people started showing up here. i've been here through most of it, and there have been people here nonstop day and night waiting for answers. >> to pat brown, criminal profiler, author of "killing for sport." here's the deal, pat.

he typically used public transportation. we know that. and therefore, he could have a cache of bodies elsewhere. they don't all have to be in his home. how do we know this is where he started? he could have started out meeting women on the other side of town, women in fields where typically they are dumped in open fields or in dumpsters. the only way now to determine if those women are connected is through possible dna. but what do you think about changing an m.o.? >> well, nancy, you're absolutely correct. sometimes we lean too heavily on the m.o. has to be the same on and on and on. but that's not true. what will happen is he'll do what's convenient for him. so originally if he was out walking around maybe going through a park and sees a jogger go by he might have grabbed her and done that but then one time he found there was a pigeon walking through his neighborhood he said want some malt liquor? woman says sure. what's up? she comes in, she's dead. he says, hey, that works. police never showed up. it's easier than leaving them out there. but then he starts a new trend.

but it's only because it works. >> it has worked. now nearly a dozen dead bodies. unleash the lawyers. raymond giudice, atlanta. christopher amolsch, washington, d.c. raymond giudice, insanity is not going to work. he hid these bodies, he continued working. he was discharged from the marines with an honorable discharge. and don't even say intoxication. we know that was his m.o. voluntary intoxication not a defense. >> that's correct. and i agree with you completely. he will have a clean mental bill of health from the marines. remarkably, prison officials found him to be a model prisoner during those 15 years, so he has no history of mental health issues that would lead to a winnable insanity defense. >> okay. so i'm not hiring giudice as my lawyer if that's what he's got to say. amolsch, what's your defense? >> it's got to be insanity because there's nothing else.

seasoned detectives go into a three-story home, cleveland area, to find at least six dead bodies. all women. we are predicting more. >> do i believe there's more bodies? i don't know at this time. what we're going to continue to do is search the property until we're totally satisfied it is totally clean. that's why we will continue overnight with the excavating. tomorrow we will come back with the fire department and look in the walls, ceilings, wherever we need to look, to confirm that in fact there is nothing else there. >> joining me outside former marine anthony sowell's home there in the cleveland suburbs, from wews, dan haggerty. dan, again, thank you for being with us this evening.

i understand that the neighborhood said when they would walk by the home they could smell a stench. is that true? >> yes, it is true. and it lasted for some say months. others say years. and they describe it after the fact as the smell of death, of rotting flesh, of dead bodies. keep in mind, though, right next door to anthony sowell's house there is a factory that packages pork products. so many people thought that the smell might have been coming from there. now, i went in there today and talked to the owner of that place, and she says that that business has been there for 60 years. she's been working there for 35 years. and it never smelled like that. there were times during the summer on hot days where she couldn't even work in her office, she had to leave. so they actually inspected the sewer system outside. they fixed that. it didn't seem to cut down on the smell, either. but you know, some people said that they were in the neighborhood and didn't smell anything.

>> we will not know until we identify the victims and understand their way of life, how they existed in the community.

the stench of death so strong neighbors gagged whenever they went past this house. well, now we're finding out the guy who lives there is a convicted rapist. why didn't anyone notice? >> what happened today when we went back to continue our investigation, we also took some dogs with us, cadaver dogs. they weren't successful because of the wind. but we also had a backhoe, and we continued just to dig it up just to make sure we covered all our bases.

as we were doing that, we discovered four more bodies in the back yard. >> 50-year-old suspect. his name is anthony sowell. he served 15 years for rape before moving into that house in 2005. >> police found the bodies during an investigation into separate rape allegations. a woman said he attacked her in that house september 22nd. >> the bodies may have been there for weeks, months, possibly years. >> what we're seeing is these men that are on these sexual registries are -- >> if you are just joining us, a stunning series of events out of cleveland suburbs. police go to the home, raid the home of a convicted rapist who was back on the streets, now charged with another rape, and instead of finding evidence in that rape they find instead six dead bodies.

it is now mounting to nearly a dozen dead women. in and around his home. they are now excavating his back yard. are there more? put money on it. joining us from outside the home of former marine anthony sowell, wews' dan hagerty. dan haggerty, take me back to the very beginning. how did this unfold? >> well, we'll start on thursday, when police first got here. it was two bodies. then yesterday. then this morning. we wake up thinking it's six bodies. four more bodies are taken out today. now it's ten bodies, including a skull that was found in the basement. right now anthony sowell charged with five -- with five counts, rather, of aggravated murder. and you mentioned, he's also charged with rape, felonious assault, and kidnapping from an incident back in september. and that's why police came here on thursday. they came to serve a warrant for those charges. when they got here, he wasn't here, anthony sowell. they went into the home, and that's when they found the initial two bodies in the attic and the one shallow grave in the basement.

but as they continue to search, they continue to look through the house, they continue to dig in the back yard, they continue to find more. >> and joining me right now, dr. evelyn minaya. she is a medical doctor. but doctor, how can they tell that the three dead women in the attic were some of the first victims, at least in this burial ground, anyway? >> that's a very good question. and the thing is that it's the decomposition. remember, they couldn't even identify that these women were actually women. and it just behooves me, i can't understand how can you not smell that stench. this is not just one person. this is exactly ten bodies in different stages of decomposition. how can you not smell that? how can you not investigate it a little bit better? so that's how you know that the person in the attic definitely was probably one of the first

victims and then, you know, going outside, depending upon what phase of decomposition that they were in. we're going to get all of that information as the investigation goes on. >> exactly. joining me, dr. evelyn minaya out of new york. and of course the corpses in the back yard may be even more well preserved because they have been buried and kept from the elements, kept from the fresh air. out to the lines, rachel in illinois. hi, rachel. >> caller: hi, nancy. thanks for taking my call. i have so many questions. so i'm going to be real quick. the woman that allegedly fell out the window, when did that actually happen? >> okay. to jean casarez, legal correspondent, "in session." you have studied the chronology, the time of events here, jean casarez. what happened when the woman came out the window? >> i think this is the 1990 incident that actually resulted in the conviction and made him a sex offender. >> right. >> the modus operandi is so similar to all of these. she was actually sitting on a love seat with him. she was a neighborhood woman. he then starts to strangle her. she fights for her life. he then begins to sexually assault her. she ran.

she was able to get away. unlike allegedly the others. >> so jean, was she pushed out the window, or did she jump to save her own life? >> what she said to police was he actually fell asleep after he bound her and sexually assaulted her, she was able to take a rag out of her mouth, unbind herself. she was too scared to go out the door, she thought that would make noise, so she went out the window. >> oh, jean. oh, jean, i did not know that detail. so he bound her, stuck a rag in

her mouth, sexually assaulted her. and it's my -- let me go to stacy newman on this. is his m.o. that he drinks heavily during these attacks? is that why he nodded off to sleep after the rape? >> exactly. and we also know he has an alleged history of drug abuse as well, nancy. also, i want to tell you that most of these victims, of the first six bodies that were found, were strangled. which meshes with the fact all these other allegations of these attacks he also strangled these women, or tried to choke them as well. >> back to dan haggerty joining us outside the home of former marine anthony sowell, where bodies are still being excavated in the back yard. were the women clothed, dan haggerty? >> we don't know. we don't know that. those types of details, exactly what they were finding back there, the biggest detail we received was that they found a skull in the basement. as far as the condition of a lot of these bodies or even the sex of most of them at this point, we're still trying to wait to hear from investigators. we do know this, though. it seems like every time they go into this house they find something more. they find more. so today -- or tomorrow, rather, they're coming in here with the fire department, and they're going to tear through this place wall to wall and make sure

there's nothing left to be found. >> well, if he's hiding dead bodies, dead women in the attic and the crawl sparks the basement, the back yard, i could not exclude the walls themselves. and of course we remember in the recent case of yale medical student annie le, she was hidden in the wall. i want to go out to paul penzone, he is a former sergeant of phoenix police department. he's with childhelp.org. he's an expert in his field. paul, what do you think of the possibility that there are other burial grounds of anthony sowell's? we know that he frequently uses the bus. what does that mean? nobody would be able to identify a car or get a car tag if he were frequenting an area of town where he could pick up women coming in and out of bars. i once had a serial killer that would pick up women coming in

and out of the bus station, the rapid transit station. he would say hey, you want to go have a drink with me, you want to go have dinner? and they would go have dinner, then never be seen again. he had women buried all over town. >> it would be irresponsible to think that that's the only place where there are going to be victims. depending on -- if you look at the time frame of when he was released from prison to when they finally realized what he was up to, this is horrific. the likelihood there are victims in other places, missing people who were never recovered and no one knows their whereabouts is extremely high. so you cannot keep your scope limited to that home. you have to expand it. >> absolutely. and also, paul penzone, what about my theory that you don't just start murdering out of the blue? i'm just wondering if either "a" after he did 15 years in the pen on rape he started killing his rape victims so they could not testify at trial or go to police or "b" has he been doing this for many, many years which would include missing women in north carolina and california where he was stationed as a marine. what do you think about it, penzone? >> i think you're spot on because he's predisposed for violence and predisclosed for sexual violence. this didn't just happen overnight. and the victims we see with the decomposition over years obviously shows it's been going on for some time. you have to expand your vision. you have to expand your search and recognize that anywhere he was at there's a possibility there's a trail of victims behind.

>> to michelle gallant, psychologist and expert, doctor, i'm just imagining those women's families that are all on the other side of that yellow crime scene tape and every time they pull out another body on a gurney they go is that my mother? is that my sister, my daughter that's been missing the last couple of years? >> i know. and being a mother, it's horrifying. horrifying. i want to touch on something, nancy, that's really important. and when you're speaking about the victims' families, something that the police officer said that is very disturbing to me was the fact that he brought up that we need to know the history of these victims and why we didn't know they were -- that they weren't missing. but i really question that they may have known that there were missing victims. just as we did not know about the rape that -- on the -- a month ago, it's because of the socioeconomic status of this community.

>> the coroner says it could take days, even weeks to i.d. the bodies. at least five of them were apparently strangled. >> the bodies may have been there for weeks, months, possibly years. >> this is a violent rapist. and he clearly is a sociopathic serial killer. q

she's 7 months old and can't even crawl or walk. so just how did shannon dedrick vanish? cops will say shannon's parents told investigators shannon slept in the same bedroom as they did. shannon, allegedly snatched from that bedroom sometime between 3:00 and 11:00 a.m. on halloween. >> we're appealing to the public in this area of brown street, if

they've seen any suspicious activity or someone carrying a baby that they would give us a call. >> it's not fitting together for me. they say they go to bed at 3:00 a.m.? even if they were awake till 3:00 with the baby, i've never known of a baby that would sleep till 11:00, 11:30 the next morning. babies don't sleep in. >> there's over 70 volunteers, officers and firefighters searching. they started out in an area right behind the house, a wooded area. and they have continued to expand the search. >> i don't like it. something is not fitting together with the story. out to allison walker. she is joining us from panama city with wmbb. allison walker, this is a 7-month-old baby girl. she cannot walk. it's my understanding she cannot crawl yet. that's not unusual. how did she go missing? what's the latest? >> you know what, nancy? we have a timeline. we know that somewhere between 3:00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m. the child went missing. what we do know from neighbors is that the mother, who the sheriff will not release the identity of, went over and knocked on the doors of her neighbors at approximately 11:00 a.m.

she then -- she said, is there -- have you guys seen anyone who has driven up in the driveway? because my child is missing. and the neighbors were just shocked. they were like, how is your child missing? no, we haven't seen anyone. so they searched the home where shannon and her parents live. no sign of the child. and at 11:23 is when they called sheriff bobby haddock's office to report her missing. as -- that's what we know. the sheriff's office has not been very cooperative in giving us many more details at this point. >> to clark goldband, our producer on the story, let me get that straight. what time -- i thought they woke up at 11:30 a.m. >> yes, nancy, that's right. it was 3:00 a.m. they said they went to bed and they woke up

around 11:00 a.m. now, nancy, if this timeline could not get any more convoluted, this may take the cake. law enforcement now saying that in fact this child was sleeping in the same bedroom as the parents. so that would mean if the child was taken that the person who abducted the child came right under the parents' noses. >> to marc klaas, special guest joining us tonight from san francisco. he's the president and founder of klaaskids foundation. he's also a crime victim himself. his little girl, polly, was taken from her home as well. marc klaas, it's not fitting together for me. weigh in.

>> well, first of all, nancy, i think it's remarkable that the name of the parents have not been released. >> i don't understand that. why would you not release the name of the parents? i mean, when your polly went missing, you were practically lying on the courthouse and police station steps going please, polygraph me, take me dna, check my car, check my body, anything, just go look for who took polly. these parents' names are being kept secret? >> well, and it's beyond that, really. because i think another huge gap in this story is the fact that the parents have not made any personal appeals. i really believe that this story is going to be solved or this case will be solved close to home rather than far away from home. i think that the huge challenge that exists right now is in finding the little baby. i can tell you that the klaas kids search team is involved in this particular search. and they are faced with a remarkable set of challenges. it's a very densely populated -- or i'm sorry. there's a very dense area. it's a swampy area. there's a lot of briars. there's a lot of brambles. they do have dogs on the scene. but the problem with that is that dogs follow a scent and this little baby didn't crawl away. there's really no scent to follow. if they're going to find the baby in the woods, they're going to find the baby at a particular spot.

and they continue to go over the same location time and time again so that they have a high probability of having -- they will have had a high probability of having found that child in any one location. i can tell you that the search will be going on again tomorrow. >> to pat brown, criminal profiler, author of "killing for sport." pat, we've had neighbors that we have spoken to say, well, the baby was always happy and the mother was always bragging on the baby, we never even heard the baby cry. that doesn't matter. that doesn't mean anything. how people act in front of other people, that doesn't mean a thing to me. >> exactly. sometimes parents like to show off their children. that's the excitement about it.

but it doesn't mean they like having them around all the time. and what i think is interesting is the police never said they're looking for anybody, like some woman who came in and said she wanted a baby and stole it. like everybody look for someone a little overweight saying she's pregnant she just had this baby. they haven't put out one plea for that. so they're not looking for a live baby, they're looking for a dead baby. >> i want to go to the lines. rhonda in tennessee. hi, rhonda. >> caller: hello, nancy. my question is -- and i love your show and love your children. but my question is since -- where were these parents? as a parent myself, if my child did not breathe right in the night or wasn't moving, i knew this. you know? how does someone come into your bedroom and take your child? >> well, rhonda, i can tell you the very first thing i do when i get home from this program at night. i drop my pocketbook and all of my papers and all my notes. i've been studying. i go -- i don't stop. i do purell on the way and i go straight in the room of the twins. and i don't just look at them. i feel them to make sure that they're breathing. i check for the temperature in the room. i don't understand. ray giudice, christopher amolsch.

you know, how can they say this baby slept till 11:30 in the morning? raymond giudice, you've got a brand new blended family. you've been up during the night with your daughters. >> nancy, if i was their counsel

for this and other happenings around the u.s., go to lungcanceralliance.com. and the joan gaeta lung cancer foundation. together, we can win the fight against lung cancer.

who are the most toxic bachelors in hollywood. at the top of the hour. >> out to the lines, marcia, west virginia. >> caller: thank you, nancy. i love you show. >> what is your question? >> caller: have they talked to the baby's doctor, when was the last time she was seen, was she in good health? >> when was the last time anybody other than the parents

saw little shannon? >> there are reports that neighbors saw shannon around 9:00 in the morning. that has not been confirmed. as far as medical records, we don't know that. the sheriff's office has not confirmed anything. >> the 9:00 sighting doesn't make sense. the parents say the baby slept until around 11:00 a.m. right there, the stories have conflicted. >> the only way that they could have slept through, as i see it, is if they were on drugs or in a drunken stupor. nothing else makes any kind of sense. that doesn't make sense. >> it's hard to sleep through a baby screaming in your ear. lisa, pennsylvania. >> caller: nice to talk to you. >> what is your question? >> caller: i hope your twins

enjoyed their first halloween. my comment on this whole situation, why would you go to a neighbor? i would pick up the phone, call 911 and -- >> excellent point. what about it, doctor? >> it's disturbing. i think there are serious questions about these parents. like you've said, the fact that they would be asleep from 3:00 a.m. until 11:00 doesn't make sense. everyone, let's stop and i would pick up the phone, call 911 and -- >> excellent point. what about it, doctor? >> it's disturbing. i think there are serious questions about these parents. like you've said, the fact that they would be asleep from 3:00 a.m. until 11:00 doesn't make sense. everyone, let's stop and remember. jason dunham. lost his life at a naval hospital, parents by his side. awarded the medal of honor. gave his life saving fellow marines from a navy attack. loved sports, the yankees, dreamed of being a state trooper. leaves behind parents debra and dan.

jason dunham, american hero. thank you for being with us. see you tomorrow night. until then, good night, friend. >> are they getting back together? we uncover the startling clues. plus tyra talks about her major weight loss but didn't she just tell women to accept themselves?

tv's first news show starts right here on hln.