breaking news tonight, live, north carolina. a 5-year-old little girl vanishes without a trace from the child's own home. mommy tells police she left the little girl on the sofa 5:30 a.m. one hour later the baby's gone. how does a 5-year-old girl go missing from her own sofa? the child wearing nothing but a t-shirt and underwear. shaniya's favorite blanket found discarded, covered in feces in the neighbor's trash. after grainy surveillance video surfaces of a 29-year-old man

carrying the child into a local hotel room, the search for baby shaniya comes to an end. police find her little body hidden in dense woods. the man in the video, mario mcneill, confesses to taking shaniya to the hotel, but then he clams up. in a heart-wrenching and disgusting twist, shaniya's own mother behind bars for selling the little girl for sex. bombshell tonight. a source reveals the baby found hidden under thick vines, downed branches, and trees, wearing only the little t-shirt she left home in. no pants. these details emerging about the crime scene tonight. how long had the body been there? don't know yet. and tonight we learn mommy first seems hysterical but then calm,

cool, and collected when she dials 911 to report the girl gone, suggesting repeatedly to dispatch that the 5-year-old unlocked the front door herself and left on her own. yeah. right. we have that 911 call tonight. also, were drugs being sold out of the home? mommy and co-defendant in protective custody tonight. but she got one visitor. the man she first blamed for the kidnapping. as police hint more charges to come. there really are no words to describe this mother. she doesn't even deserve the compliment of mother. her and her cohorts' animalistic behavior screams out for the north carolina death penalty. tonight, shaniya's older brother with us live taking your calls at this hour as that tiny body still sits in a morgue.

we want justice for shaniya. >> found her. >> all right. >> call command and tell them. >> i can't bless you for this day, but i bless you for my daughter. bring her into your arms. >> what time did you wake up? when did you last see her? >> i saw her at 5:30 last night.

>> 5:30 last night, is that when you put her to bed? >> yes, ma'am. no, when she went back to bed. >> okay. that was 5:00 this morning. is that what you're telling me? >> yes, ma'am. >> okay. were there any doors open or anything like that? >> she knows how to unlock the front door. >> just knowing my little baby's up there with you is making me comfort right now. you brought her home, man. you brought her home. >> good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. details emerging on the initial burial ground for little shaniya. as mommy and her cohorts sit behind bars in protective custody. >> we got a tip. somebody in the parking lot said they had heard on the news or something that the guy admitted

to killing the young child and dumping her where there was deer carcasses and trash. and we remember driving through here earlier and smelling something pretty nasty. so we came back to check it and sure enough there were deer carcasses and trash and some of the officers from the virgin islands went through here and actually saw her in there, and the dogs were showing a lot of interest. so we checked it out and confirmed. >> don't give up on me, and don't give up on shaniya. she's right there with you. >> your door was not unlocked? that's what you're telling me? >> no, it was not unlocked. but i'm telling you she knows how to unlock it. i'm hoping she didn't unlock it and walk out. >> i got her out of the car and i kissed her good-bye, and i told her to be a good girl. she turned back to me and said, "i love you, aunt carey, and see you later." >> you said none of the doors were open? >> no, ma'am, they were locked, but she knows how to unlock the front door. >> was it closed this morning? >> yes, ma'am. >> and you said it was around 5:30? >> yes, ma'am. >> okay. have you checked the neighborhood? >> i checked everywhere.

i haven't checked the back end of the neighborhood yet but i checked the front end. i don't know what else to do. i'm so -- i don't know what else to do. >> you want me to believe but you give me no faith to believe. but i just know that you're walking with me and you've got my daughter looking down. >> that is shaniya's father, literally broken in half in grief. he couldn't even stand up. he had just let the mother have a chance at trying to be a mother to her little girl. he traveled for work. he had been out of town. the mom had her for five weeks. and in those five weeks, according to police, she sold her little girl into prostitution. her 5-year-old little girl, who is now dead. right now police are hinting

there are more charges to come. does that mean felony murder charges, or does that mean more people? are there more men involved in the torture and murder of this little child? let's see what we can learn. you've heard this much of it, but now listen to the whole 911 tape where this mother, according to police, has just sold her child, handed over her little child dressed in underwear and a t-shirt to a man to sell her into sex. here she is.

>> okay. hold on. before i go to the reporters, let's unleash the lawyers. we're taking your calls live. susan moss, child advocate, family law attorney, new york. raymond giudice, felony defense attorney, atlanta. and alex sanchez, renowned in his jurisdiction, defense attorney in new york. alex sanchez, first to you. i was just taking a little time check. she hadn't even been on the line one minute before she says for the first of three times, she knows how to get out of the door. she knows how to unlock the lock. and within 26 seconds the hysteria has disappeared. she's calm, cool, and collected. why? why, alex sanchez? >> i do not know why. but what i do know is that the police have released very few details about what happened. so i'm not even exactly clear what facts led to her arrest at this point. so whether or not that phone call has any validity or not at this point, you know, i'm not in a position to say.

>> okay. at least you said that with a straight face. giudice, are you going to sing that same verse, same as the first, or you've got something new for me? >> this phone call gives her defense team a big problem. she can't come up with the defense was hey, my friend said he was going to take her over to the mall to buy her some shoes. >> whoa. put giudice up. you know what? you know what, ray? >> yes, ma'am. >> i respect that. even though it's complete b.s. because what you're admitting to is -- >> she can't do that. >> -- is that they are going to tailor their defense to what they have already committed to. but you're right. she's screwed up immediately in the 911 because you've got -- you explain it from your point of view. >> well, she's boxed in. like i say, she can't say my buddy came over said she was going to take her over to the mall to buy her some shoes. she's reported the child missing. she's got to stick with that story. from her perspective her defense team is this is either a

kidnapping or the child wandered off and somehow mcneill got a hold of her. >> okay, sue moss. hit me. >> she walked out the door, but yet the door was locked from the inside. come on, that makes no sense. this woman is going down, and thank goodness for that. >> lord, i know you're gracious, and i know you're good, and you're giving it to me for a reason, but i love you, lord. don't give up on me, and don't give up on shaniya. she's right there with you.

found her? all right. i'll call. >> call command and tell them. >> we got a tip. somebody in the parking lot said they had heard on the news or something that the guy admitted to killing the young child and dumping her where there was deer carcasses and trash. and we remembered driving through here earlier and smelling something pretty nasty. so we came back to check it, and sure enough there were deer carcasses and trash. and then some of the officers from the virgin islands went through here and actually saw her in there. and the dogs were showing a lot of interest.

so we checked it out and confirmed. >> i stand before all of you. i stand before this country with a very humble heart. i want to extend my deepest appreciation to all those who have prayed for shaniya, that's cared for shaniya, that have expressed their concern, and they share this pain that myself and my family has had to endure. my heart bleeds and hopes and praise that this community, this country can unite as one to possibly prevent something like this from happening again to another special angel. >> i held shaniya so deeply, and she filled my heart and my soul. and to think that this has

happened, to every pedophile, every person who thinks of kidnapping a child, please beware, i'll be watching. and shaniya and i will not go quietly into the night. >> straight out to gurnal scott with wptf radio. gurnal, thank you for being with us. gurnal, please give me the latest. i want to hear the details of the crime scene because, gurnal, i've got a theory. i think where that child's body, her initial burial ground, where her body was left suggests very strongly that this is a local person that knew where to put a body. >> that's what you would think when you see where deer carcasses and trash, someplace where they knew that it would be hard for a body to be found. if you look at it that way, yes, you're right. it seems like somebody knew the area, knew the place to put a body, and it would make it tough for any searchers, police, dogs,

perhaps masked any scent that i body would -- would come off a body with the deer carcasses. they would know that that could throw people off. >> you know, gurnal scott, just to hear you describe it is making me literally nauseous, to think that beautiful child, that gorgeous little girl was left here under all that kudzu and downed branches and tree trunks beside a dead deer carcass is just absolutely horrific. and that mother is the one that sold her into prostitution according to police? gurnal scott, the reason i'm so interested in the crime scene is this. we have mario andrette mcneill, age 29. let's show the video, liz. you're seeing some exclusive crime scene video taken in the last hours. the scene still being processed. we've got mcneill taking her into a hotel room.

all right. we know for a fact he's in the hotel room. i think we're going to show you that video, liz. we know he's in the hotel room for about one hour with the girl. there we go. he leaves with the girl. she's still alive apparently as they leave. now, it doesn't make sense to me that he sells her into prostitution to say somebody out of town and then she turns up dead in a local ravine. that doesn't make sense. if he's really sold her to somebody, why don't they take her away, take her to mexico, take her to new york? let her blend in with the crowd. that says to me this murder is close to home, gurnal scott. what do you think? >> there is a -- that is a very compelling case. and as you mentioned earlier, we still don't know who else may be involved in this. there was a news conference scheduled for today. the police department in fayetteville said new

information, pushed that news conference to tomorrow. are there other people that are going to be charged in this case? will the murder charges come? we don't know just yet. >> you know another thing i noticed -- let's unleash the lawyers. we'll be back with gurnal scott, marlaina schiavo and billy liggett from the herald. we're tabing yo intaking your c. back to you, giudice. i was analyzing that mother's 911 call. she didn't know what her child had on exactly? i can tell you right now, eyes closed, what lucy and john david have on because i dress them. an aquamarine pajama outfit with pink cupcakes and a navy blue choo-choo train pajama set for john david. but she didn't know, ray. why? >> nancy, parents know everything. as a recent stepfather and you're a recent mother, we both know, we know everything about our children. it's imprinted in our mind. and that's a real problem for her. >> which leads me, sue moss, to

the startling discovery tonight that the child may have been found only in the t-shirt, no pants, sue moss. she didn't have her little pants on. >> you know what that means. pimp out your kid for the highest bid. she'll look at death for what she did. and i say good rid.

we are taking your calls live. i want to go straight out to yvette in tennessee. hi, yvette. >> caller: hi, nancy. i would like to ask a question about the surveillance when he was getting into the elevator. it looked like shaniya was holding a blanket. is that the blanket that they found in the trash can? >> good question. what do we know about that, marlaina schiavo? i don't think it's the same one. >> you're right, nancy. it's not the same blanket because that blanket was taken into evidence. and we also know that blanket was covered in feces and was not a clean blanket like the one shown in the surveillance. >> marlaina, what more can you

tell us tonight? what else have you learned? >> we've learned quite a few things, nancy. one thing we learned from mcneill's lawyer was that there might be more charges coming his way. he didn't want to say specifically if it was going to be human trafficking charges and murder charges, because no one has told him that, but that's the assumption he's making. we also spoke to clarence coe, who was antoinette davis's boyfriend, the man she implicated in this case in the beginning and who was originally arrested and then released. and he had a lot to say. he stands behind apt juanette. he claims she was a good mother who was a hard-working person and he seems to be very shocked by all of this. >> now, what can you tell me about ccoe visiting her behind bars? this is the guy she first pointed to as the kidnapper. he got arrested. >> he did. and he was charged. it wasn't until mcneill came forward that they actually dropped these charges. he would still be behind bars at this point. but anyway, he said to me that he was going to visit her today behind bars.

he supports her. he's very confused by all of this. she's also pregnant with his child. that is also a concern of his. so i'm still waiting to hear from him, and we're going to find out what she has to say right now tonight behind bars. >> she's always happy and giggling. you would never think anybody would do that to her. she's just the sweetest little girl.

don't give up on me, and don't give up on shaniya. she's right there with you. >> there's no easy way to report this. little shaniya is dead. >> her body was found yesterday off a dirt road in sanford, north carolina. witnesses say her body was on the ground, it was clothed only in a t-shirt. >> police had been searching that eyarea. they were combing the road, they were combing the woods. and they told me they found a

body about 100 feet off the road into the woods. >> this body was found about seven miles away from the surveillance that we had last seen of shaniya in the arms of a man by the name of mario mcneill. >> police have charged shaniya's 25-year-old mother, whom you see here, with human trafficking and felony child abuse. >> her mother, i would never think that she would do something like that. >> why do you say that, cheyenne? >> she just seemed like the sweetest woman. >> this woman pimped her child. that's what she did. she sold her child into prostitution. there is no punishment great enough to meet the crimes that she has committed. >> 911. what is your emergency?

>> i come to you with open arms, and it's hard! >> hard, man. it's hard. >> you want me to believe, but you give me no faith to believe! i just know that you're walking with me and you've got my daughter looking down. and i love you, jesus. >> hallelujah! >> hallelujah.

>> just give me the strength. >> we are taking your calls. straight out to theresa in new york. hi, theresa. >> caller: hi. how are you, nancy? >> i'm good, dear. >> caller: good. you kind of answered it. i was just wondering, the creep in the video, do they feel he was bringing the poor baby to somebody else? you said they had video of him leaving also. why wouldn't they show that? >> to billy liggett with the "sanford herald," joining us there in sanford, north carolina. mr. liggett, thank you for being with us. what is the theory right now? i mean, he's only in the room with the child for an hour. that's time do plenty with a 5-year-old defenseless little girl. but where was he taking her? he's clammed up behind bars. did he hand her off to somebody else, or is the most obvious and simplest solution the answer, that he in fact is responsible for the murder? what is the thinking, billy liggett? >> he is really the only suspect other than the mother right now. the only video footage that's

been released to the media shows him carrying the child, and it's really only two still photos. they haven't showed actual video to anybody. so they're not saying if there's anybody else of interest. mr. scott said earlier that the wood area where -- in lake county where the body was dumped would probably confirm that he knew the area well. and i kind of disagree with that because the wooded area is actually right off the main highway. and it's less than a mile off the main highway. and it's in between sanford and fayetteville. and it would appear to me that in between the two cities that he saw this little wooded highway, you know, whoever it is that dumped the body turned right, went down there, dumped the body less than 100 feet from the highway, got right back on the main highway, and probably they're headed to fayetteville or sanford. we don't have any idea why he's fam familiar with sanford. they're not releasing that information. the only thing -- the only thing

we have on him is that he was at the hotel and that he is currently in custody. we don't have any other information as to whether he was handing it off to somebody, handing her off to somebody or anything like that. >> got it. to dr. carey peterson, joining us from lennox hill hospital, dr. peterson, thank you for being with us. >> hi, nancy. >> i think it's going to be extremely important, critical, the time of death. how many days that child had been there. if she had only been lying there for a couple of hours, that means it's very likely he could have passed her off to some other man. if she had been there for a period of days, up to nearly a week, that points back to him more closely. >> you are absolutely right. and i think that autopsy will help determine within about a 24 to 48-hour period the time of death. what they'll look at is just the stage of decomposition of the body. and based on the appearance of the external body and the internal cavity they can get a

pretty good timeline within a day or so. >> really? so even though the body may have been there for a week, they may be able to pin it down to a day? >> to within i would say 24 to 48 hours. probably -- >> and especially if there are colonies of, for instance, coffin flies, maggots -- >> exactly. >> -- you can determine how long, what advanced state the larva is at, and you can determine then how long the body's been there. >> exactly. when the body decomposes, it goes through characteristic physical changes. and also the insect infestation progresses. >> it's kind of hard, dr. peterson, to take a look at this little girl with that big smile and know that she is now dead. and that video of her at that hotel is just -- wrenches my stomach because that could be her killer carrying her out with one of her favorite blankets. handed over by her mommy. in addition to dr. keri peterson

out of new york joining us is dr. lillian glass, psychologist, body language expert, author of "i know what you're thinking." out of l.a. dr. glass, trust me. she's not lying distraught in the jail tonight. she's not lying on a cot crying her eyes out. i guarantee tonight she got served beef stew with rice, cooked cabbage, fruit cob -- well, she had dessert. and fruit punch. you know darn well mommy didn't give back the food tray. she's fine. she's fine. did you hear her on that 911 call? she's not worried. she's not upset. >> nancy, it's disgusting. and i think you brought it up really well earlier in the show when you said there was a change in her tone, a change in her voice. >> yeah. less than 30 seconds. >> all of a sudden she starts -- >> less than 30 seconds. i timed it. >> right. and that was a very good thing that you brought up because it shows that this is phony, that she knows what's going on, and

it's not sincere. and then she mentioned so many times that the daughter can open the door, she can open the door. she's setting it up. and nancy, when i look at the surveillance tapes, it's very scary, and it's also gut-wrenching because when you look at the position of shaniya's legs, it's a defensive reaction, and it's very disturbing. >> poor little thing. look at her. she didn't have on any socks. all she had on was her little underwear and a shirt. in the hands of that guy. >> it's just horrible. awful. >> to paul pensown, director of prevention programs, childhelp.org, former sergeant with phoenix police. penzone, weigh in. >> i've got to tell you, nancy, my background is i spent six years working undercover. and i've been in the home of drug users, drug addict. they serve another master. they have no right to be parents because that child in any home of that environment is not being raised properly. so what happens here is she had

other priorities. that child was not one of them. and there is no punishment that is severe enough for what she deserves. you have a drug addict, you have a child, you don't want to care for it, there are plenty of loving families who would give that child the family they deserve. drop them off at child help's door because we'll take care of them. but this is a disgusting case and no punishment is enough for her or for the man who was involved. there's going to be another crime scene somewhere. so let's keep our eyes open for that because i doubt she was murdered at the location she was dumped, and that's going to tell the story. >> and marlaina schiavo, haven't you heard from sources that they didn't just use drugs, they sold drugs out of that home? >> unfortunately, yes, nancy. and we know there was a drug raid over the summer. and i was told that family members were in and out of the house where shaniya lived, where shaniya's mother lived, and there were family members selling drugs outside. >> you know, jail is too good for this woman and her cohort. everyone, we are taking your calls live. but as we go to break, on a happy note, believe you me, i'm

going to be hugging them in their sleep when i get home. the n.g. family album. here are some photos of the twins. some of my favorites. this is right after we brought them home from intensive care and they had that little play toy. here they are in their double stroller. they couldn't hold their heads up. i had to put a towel or a blankie above their heads to keep their heads up. here are family photos from our friends of the show. connecticut friends vicki, 2-year-old daughter ava dressed as a tiger for halloween. kentucky friends of the show linda, brian, kayla, michael, furry friends jazz sxhin rooster. they never, ever miss a show.

we love you so much. i can't bless you for this day, but i bless you for my daughter. >> yes, lord. >> the last time i saw shaniya was four weeks ago on a friday.

i went to visit her mother. i packed her with two days' worth of clothes. i got her out of the car, and i kissed her good-bye, and i told her to be a good girl. she turned back to me and said, "i love you, aunt carey, and see you later." i have to go. i'm sorry. no more comments.

>> joining us right now, special guest shaniya's brother, byron callman. mr. callman, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> mr. coleman, when did you learn that shaniya's body had been found? >> i heard thursday -- or yesterday, actually. i'm sorry. i had got a couple phone calls from a couple of friends in greensboro and raleigh, and people that have been following the story, supporting me and my family since day one. and they actually have been asking me if i was all right. and i didn't hear the news at all because i live in charlotte. and right before it came on cnn my father called me and he told me right before i hear the news that they did find a body and it possibly could be shaniya's. >> what did you know about the

mother? >> me and antoinette really didn't have a relationship. i didn't know much about her. the only thing me and antoinette ever said to each other was a hi when i was picking up shaniya and a bye, how have you been? >> how often had you been there to pick up shaniya? >> usually -- i picked up shaniya quite a few times. from my aunt's house or from my father's house. i would either take shaniya to mcdonald's to get something to eat, to play around, or go to chuck e. cheese. anything of that nature. >> you know, before i had children i swore i would not let them eat mcdonald's, i would only give them organic food. you know what? forget it. if they want french fries, they've got it. so you would take her to mcdonald's, chuck e. cheese. you spent a fair amount of time with her? >> yes, ma'am. >> now, you mentioned you picked her up from her aunt's house, the grandmother. but how much time did antoinette

spend with her? >> that i'm not aware of because, i mean, i don't live here in fayetteville. >> right. >> i recently moved to charlotte. but shaniya was mostly -- my aunt took good care of her as long as my father. the majority of time she was with my father or with my aunt. just with my aunt spending time and with my father raising her. and my father recently gave her -- antoinette a chance to give the mother a second chance to raise her daughter. i mean, because everybody deserves a second chance. just like a convicted felon, i mean, he deserves a second chance because he could have changed. you never know. >> did anybody in your side of the family know that drugs were being sold out of that home? >> no, not that i'm aware of. >> that was my understanding, that nobody on the dad's side knew that that was going on in the home. >> no, we didn't have no clue at all. because if we did, we would never let shaniya go to that

type of environment. >> absolutely not. from my understanding, your father took excellent care of the little girl. >> she did. and i mean, you can see from when mario was carrying her how shaniya's hair was. in the car when shaniya had her hair slicked back to her birthday parties to her halloween costume, you can -- shaniya was well kept with my father. he took very good care of her. >> how is your father doing tonight? i mean, he is just heartbroken. from what we have seen -- >> yeah, i can -- yeah, my father, he's taking it real hard. i mean, it's really hard on our family. i mean, it's just a tough time. this is actually our second time going through another death in our family. my mom passed away when i was 10 years old. >> i know. >> it's just really hard on the family. so we're just trying to take it in, and we thank everybody for their support and the blessings and the prayers that everybody have been going out from here to california to all the way over

to iraq. >> well, with me, everyone, shaniya's brother, byron coleman. believe you me, so many people are praying for you and your family and for shaniya. when, do you know, are they going to release her body? have they told anybody what was the cause of death, byron? >> they actually -- i haven't heard anything. i don't think my father has, either. we're not really sure too much yet. we're still trying to figure it out now. >> and there is your dad right there. >> yes, ma'am. >> there's your dad. would you please -- >> i really do want to thank everybody for their support and prayers. i mean, it really does mean a lot. you know, everybody's staying strong. we're trying to. i know it's hard. but for the mothers out there, please don't let this happen to your child. >> if you could pass on to your father that, you know, i thought

as a crime victim myself i knew what pain was, but when i saw him when he learned about shaniya crying, i don't that could be worse than losing your child. would you just pass on to him that we are praying for him so much? >> yes, ma'am. >> everybody, we are taking your calls live. i want to go out to stacey in california. hi, stacey. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> hi, dear. what's your question? >> caller: hi, my question is what was the mother thinking of doing this to her 5-year-old child, and i believe that my husband and i believe that she was on crack cocaine or some sort? this is really bizarre. >> hold on, stacy, repeat the question. >> caller: i want to know what she was thinking, because of doing this to her 5-year-old child. >> you know what? i'm going to throw that to byron coleman, he is there with his father, shaniya's father.

i know you guys have seen the mom in court. you've seen the video of that guy, mario mcneill, with her. you knew antoinette. how could she just hand the baby over, byron? >> and that's something, i mean, it's hard to believe a mother would hand a child over to a complete -- i don't know.

everyone, with me right now is shaniya's brother. he is seated there along with shaniya's father, who had just asked me off camera to convey thanks to you and to everyone who has prayed for and cared for shaniya, and mr. lockhart, i just can't tell you how much your suffering has touched so many of us, and we want you to know that you're in our prayers. i know that you don't want to

talk on camera and you're there supporting byron and i understand that. byron, if in the last few moments we have, your father asked that i make sure shaniya is not forgotten. could you just tell me about her as a little girl, as we show our viewers this beautiful little angel? >> shaniya, she was real, like my sister said last night, she was real giggly. she would not go to any stranger at all. she was real giggly, always laughing and once you get her talking she would not be quiet. she would talk you to death. she would take every female, my girlfriend, female friends that come over to visit, up ats, grandmas, take them in the back and try to do makeup with them, show them all her toys. shaniya was just always was laughing. you could never see a frown on her face.

>> we are showing the most beautiful photos of little shaniya, and i can see how your father cared for her, pulling her hair back, matching her outfits. you know, sometimes i'm tempted to cut lucy's hair rather than comb through another tangle and i can just see your dad working with her and making her even more beautiful. to bradley lockhart, thank you for visiting our show tonight and to byron coleman, thank you. >> thank you. everyone, let's stop and remember army sergeant onle that walls, 27, on a second tour, awarded the army commendation medal national defense service medal, army service ribbon, so dedicated to army he returned to duty after damage to his hearing on a roadside bomb. loved video games, being a family man. leaves behind grieving parents steven and lisa, two brothers,

widow meghan, son hayden, daughters lily and alana. jonathan walls. a special good night from alabama friends, lynn, carla, bill. aren't they beautiful? everyone, let's keep shaniya and her family in our prayers. i'll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern and until then, good night, friend. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight, first sarah palin talked to oprah, then she chatted up barbara walters. if she is going to become a talk show host she's off to a good start. he wilevi johnston didn't g the full monte in his "playboy" spread. finally dr. drew pincy and

recovering sex addicts talk about a serious problem that isn't always taken seriously, coming up next. %%%%%%%%%

tonight on "the joy behar show" sales for "going rogue" are going through the roof. will sarah palin's vindicti vindictiveness backfire? and there's been posing and posturing this week. is sarah palin's "newsweek" cover too sexist? is levi johnston's play girl shoot not sexy enough? finally sex addicts, dr. drew pinsky explains why too much pleasure often leads to pain. all that starting right now.

"going rogue" sarah palin's new book, is officially out today and it's selling faster than moose burgers in wazilla. is the former vice presidential candidate really going rogue or just going after the mccain campaign? joining me now to discuss is hilary rosen, cnn political contributor and ann coulter, my pal, conservative commentator and author of "guilty: liberal victims and their assault on america" now out in paperback. i say that because the title is vin tidictive and nasty and i l it. how are you girls? >> all right. >> 70% of americans are saying sarah palin is not qualified to be president. my question is who are the 30% that think she is besides you, ann? >> yes, well there's me. >> there's you. >> i guess, i mean for one thing it's definitely the americans who are not swayed by what the mainstream media says.

i don't know whether she can overcome those numbers. if that poll is accurate and if it continues that way, okay, i guess she probably can't run for president. but there have been some very popular and very successful presidents who have been down in the polls before they became president, like ronald reagan, and bush and i don't think obama was ever down in the polls. >> you're scaring me now that you mentioned the two of them. hillary, what do you think? >> i agree with ann. i think it's probably too soon to tell exactly what the makeup is of the republican primary but there are enough people who know about sarah palin and like her to make her formidable if she goes there. that's the scary thing but i think she takes some responsibility for the fact that so many people believe she's not qualified and i don't think she's done very much to make people believe she is qualified. >> barbara walters, my boss, asked the question everybody wants to know this morning on "good morning america." let's listen to this. >> do you ever want to be

president of the united states? >> that certainly isn't on my radar screen right now, but when you consider some of the ordinary turning into extraordinary events that have happened in my life i am not one to predict what will happen in a few years. my ambition, if you l my desire is to help our country in whatever role that may be and i cannot predict what that will be, what doors would be open in the year 2012. >> would you play a major role? >> if people will have me, i will. >> i'll tell you which people would like it, comedians. >> you know, i don't think we should trash her, though, for wanting to be president. i want every girl in america to want to grow up to want to be president. >> i know. >> that's not a bad thing. what troubles me is that people might actually vote for her. ambition i think should not be attacked in women. >> david brooks, did you see him on george stephanopolous said

she was a joke, ann, your own party base person there, one of the intellectuals in the party, i know that. he thinks she's a joke and she should be a talk show host which i find rather insulting to me but that's another story. >> that's right. actually i think most republicans consider david brooks a joke, and i think as long as i'm on with the galless i'd like to point out that sarah palin, that 30% that totally loves sarah palin was it they saw her being president or loved her? i bet you more people love her than would necessarily want her to be president but in any event it cuts across gender lines on our side. the enthusiasm for sarah palin is among conservatives, young people, old people, blue collar people, and a lot of men and a lot of women, and i got to tell you, i don't see a woman on the democrat side that attracts that sort of following, certainly not hillary clinton. it was mostly liberal women who liked hillary. it was liberal women who liked geraldine ferraro, not sarah palin. >> her base is passionate and

loud but the silent majority as the right wing likes to call them, they don't like her as much. just because she's loud doesn't mean she has a shot, right, hila hilary? >> i think people see her gen generally as erratic. since she had the mind-boggling detour on the lakeside quitting the governor's race she's done virtually nothing substantively. when you look at the book tour even which is, in my view, a political consultant's nightmare, she's not doing anything on this book tour that would show she's really in touch with ordinary americans. she's stopping in a lot of book stores but she's not going to job centers, she's not focusing on unemployment, she's not dealing with what's supposed to be her core issues like energy. >> no. >> economics. there's no substance involved whatsoever. that, i think, is the unfortunate part of what, you know, this victimhood she's playing. i think she's completing ely do

this for herself >> taking swipes at the mccain campaign. let's listen to another part of barbara's interview with her. >> the press reports quoted unnamed mccain aides calling you a diva, a whack job, a narcissist. why do you think these people were trying to destroy your reputation? >> for some people, this is a business, and if failure in this business was going to reflect poorly on them, they had to pack their own parachutes and protect themselves and their reputations so they wouldn't be blamed. i'll take the blame, though, because i know at the end of the day what the truth is and if it makes them feel better to be able to say, she's the one who caused the downfall because she had a lousy interview one day, then so be it. >> it wasn't just one interview. it was a series of incoherent sentences and lack of any kind of -- [ laughter ] it was, sorry, ann. her sin tax alone would drive

you crazy. >> you're doing an excellent job on summarizing the mainstream media. i disagree with everything. >> we know that. >> she explained beautifully why she left the governorship. she's done going a lot, wrote the book. she's not going to job centers because this is a book tour, not a campaign for president and by the way it is an unusual and populist book tour. when i did my book tours i hit new york and l.a. and that's about it, much to the annoyance of my publisher i might add. she's doing a week in new york and blowing that off and going up to ground rapids and tuscaloosa, oklahoma, she's going to her base to sell this book. no, she is not running like a presidential campaign but she's promoting a book. >> i think she's divisive a lot of times when she talks about the real america, she separates the american people from each other. when we're in wars, you're going to need every american to fight the wars not just the real america. i find that very divisive of her. do you?

>> no. >> sorry, is this for hilary? >> hilary, go ahead. >> it wouldn't necessarily be divisive if ann was writing the book but if it's a politician trying to prove they can make progress in the country, they can bring people together they have a thoughtful position to sell because success in politics is about bringing people together, at least enough so you've got a majority, i think the issue for her is she spends way too much time in this book blaming other people. i don't think john mccain lost because of sarah palin, but i do think it added to the message that he was erratic, that he wasn't prepared himself to take on a lot of the issues seriously, and the fact that she wasn't a substantive enough and consistent enough partner proved his bad decision-making. i don't think it was only her fault but having said that, there are a lot of things that get said in attack about sarah palin that i'm troubled by it. i don't think anybody would have talked about all of her clothes, for instance, during the campaign, if she had been a guy and they were, you know,

$100,000 worth of blue suits which by the way you can spend $100,000 on. >> wait a minute, they made a lot out of john edwards' expensive haircuts. >> we didn't hear too much about joe biden's hair plugs. i think the divisiveness is coming from the media attacking her for being really an ordinary american, married to a blue collar guy. >> if she was so ordinary, ann, she wouldn't be that charismatic. she's not ordinary. >> she is a charismatic ordinary american. >> isn't that an oxymoron a charismatic ordinary american? >> it's an oxymoron to say she's a prina dona and a corn pone. i think ordinary americans are cool cats and so is she. they relate to her when the media attacks her. a lot of americans feel like wow, is that what they think of me? as long as we're talking about the divisiveness of her book look, the mccain campaign was sniping at her, leaking a lot to

the press during that campaign. fine, this is payback time, i'm looking forward to it. in obama's autobiography he attacks me by name and i never mentioned him before. >> hilary, you want to have one last quick word before i go in. >> i think the problem when you write a kiss and tell auto biography is that people don't want to, you know, kiss you anymore. they don't want to be with you anymore because they don't trust you, and so i think she's going to have a lot of trouble being taken seriously in the republican party when she's viewed as such a vindictive person. >> thank you very much, ann and hilary. when we come back, you can't have sarah without levi. we'll be right back. thank you, ladies.

open invitation for levi to come to aunt katie's house for thanksgiving dipper in washington. there, it's there. >> nobody has a convince to go to an invite to washington to eat at an aunt's house. yeah, but i think if i go there i'm going to need an army, because it's not going to be good. >> that was bristol palin's baby daddy, levi johnston talking about his pseudomother-in-law's invitation to thanksgiving dinner. looks like fun, doesn't it? who carves the moose? if those people get together for the holidays melting ice caps will be the least of alaska's

problem. here is steve kornacki, political columnist for the "new york observer" ann ortiz of "ugly betty" and michael mcme on and broadway star of "doughnuts." does this thanksgiving dinner happen? >> no way. only if the cameras are present, i think. i feel a little bit like sarah palin and levi were the ones dating and not bristol. >> that's an interesting point. >> there's so much bickering. >> they're on top of it, right. he should be fighting with bristol and he's not. >> wouldn't you love to be invited to a thanksgiving dinner on national television under duress? that's not the way i like to go to my family event. >> i think the thanksgiving event should be pay-per-view anyway, because she s let's be honest, she is the reality television candidate. she is the first one of this era. i think o.j. was the first reality television trial, and

this is the first reality television candidate. >> there was no talk of o.j. becoming. of the united states. how scary is that? >> patience. patience. he's studying law. >> sarah palin threw some punches at levi on "oprah" but levi hit back on "e.t. "let's look. >> the whole premise of levi ever having lived with bristol is false, and from there, though, i mean you take that foundational untruth and you can kind of measure all the other things that he's saying. >> you know, she's basically calling me a liar which is total [ bleep ]. i did for, you know, a few, a couple months, and then we split up, and that was it. >> well, i mean, you know, it's becoming he said/she said. >> right. >> if you read the "vanity fair" article i'm sure you read that with levi he says scathing things about her and she went after him and the interview with oprah, she talks about him as a porn star with the "playgirl"

thing he's not doing full frontal. oh, my god, san francisco is creating a national day of mourning, because -- but anyway. who do you believe? who do you think is tell -- who is the bigger liar, let's say or the smaller liar? >> wow. i think it's just -- go ahead. >> i'm amazed. this is not the first time you've had embarrassing family members or almost family members as is the case here in politics but there's just a simple thing. you don't go to war with them in public. jimmy carter helped billy carter at bay. >> yes. >> he kind of let the country laugh at him, never went after him. bill clinton had roger clinton, you go along with it don't get into it. >> embarrass the relatives. >> if you provoke a fight this is what happens. this is making her into, you know, look, i think ships sailed with her presidential ambitions a long time. if there was anything still alive it's dying fast. >> i was talking in the previous segment, 70% of americans think she's not qualified to be president.

who are the 30% that think she is? >> she's the classic 25/75, 30/70 candidate. the core that loves you. i would like her in a way in terms of politics to pat robertson when he ran for president, 70% of the country. >> ralph nader. >> probably more. were scared of this guy. >> more raffle of nader. >> there is the core problem and i think primarily she's a cultural figure not a political figure. >> i heard we have a "playgirl" pick posted on "the daily news" website. oh it's just from the head up? >> oh, come on. i could do that. >> what's this, what is he doing, this? this is like a pose i do with my trainer lady. >> what is embarrassing is a-rod kissing himself in the mirror pictures but it's getting there. >> we hear that he posed with a hockey stick, i'm just saying. i don't know what that's about. >> how much of the hockey stick is needed of course, that's

still open to speculation. >> well that would determine his popularity. >> yes. >> sarah palin is crying foul over the cover of "newsweek" magazine, not about the question of whether or not she's a problem but over the photo they used. here is the picture, saying that it's sexist, people are saying it's sexist. get a close-up look there. okay? >> i agrhate to agree with sara palin but i believe it's such bad form. i really do. >> did they buy these from "runner's world"? is that the same outfit that owns "newsweek"? >> it was "runner's world" photo but it's not shocking that "newsweek's" circulation is down and revenues are down and struggling to survive, you put a picture on, let everybody call you sexist and we're talking about it on national tv. >> if you had a male politician in what he runs in, if it was shorts, if it was, you know, willie nelson running suit that

we all stand still in, regardless, it wouldn't be a sexist issue. they would be wearing sex-appropriate clothes which i think she is. >> is it possible it's about the flag she's so ticked off though? when she first posed with this picture, it was insulting to the flag, that she was disrespectful to the flag. >> she can't say she didn't knots it because her elbow is on it. >> she hasn't mentioned the flag, only talking this is sexist and what have you. >> on another note wasn't obama seen in a picture, kind of topless. >> he didn't pose for that, some paparazzi took that when he was on vacation. >> in a way it's even more insulting to him. she actually posed for this. >> right. >> take the responsibility for it. >> what is that machine in her hand? >> her blackberry. >> ask levi. check out "ugly betty" friday

nigh nights. when we come back an army cook who chose her baby over her call to duty. don't go away.

alexis hutchinson is a cook in the united states army. she's also the single mother of a 10-month-old. she's been ordered to afghanistan but she can't find anyone to take care of her son so she's not going and now she's in a lot of trouble. here now to discuss this story is alexis hutchinson's attorney. ray sue-sussmann. thanks for joining me. is your client an awol soldier or desperate single mom with nowhere to turn? >> well she was awol for less than 24 hours and voluntarily returned to the military with her baby. at that point the military although they had other options decided that they would arrest her and put her in jail and took

her child from her and placed him in child protective services even though she had voluntarily returned to the army. >> where is the baby now? >> the baby when the baby's grandmother specialist hutchinson's mother found out that kamani was going to foster care in georgia, she got on a plane and went and got him out of foster care in georgia, and she took him back to oakland. however, she maintains that she can't take care of him in the long-term. >> why not? she has other people to take care of? >> she's got other people to take care of. she herself has a young daughter who has special needs and medical issues. she also is one of the primary caregivers for her ailing and aging mother, and she just found out that her sister's medical problems are about to get a lot worse so her sister asked for extra care for herself and her family >> hutchinson, where is she now?

>> she's currently under heavy restriction on her base at hunter army air field in georgia. >> they're just holding her? >> they're just holding her there, and she's under 24-hour watch from what i can understand. >> uh-huh. okay, the army released a statement saying "the chain of command has a legal obligation to the citizens of the united states to investigate and deal fairly with specialist hutchinson's alleged misconduct. anything less would be irresponsible to our citizens and the thousands and thousands of soldiers who have deployed overseas despite difficult personal situations." is that being fair to your client? i mean, they do have a lot of other people who would like to have special treatment, and they can't give it to everybody, so what do you say to that? >> i think that the way they treated her was not fair. the army when presented with her child care emergency had other options for how they dealt with her. they did not have to arrest her and did not have to remove her

child from her. the army n fact, has regulations, at this point the army has 85,000 single parents, and so they do have regulations for how to deal fairly when single parents in the army have child care emergencies or child care failures. >> well, my information is that more than 30,000 single mothers have been deployed to iraq and afghanist afghanistan. >> i have that, have heard that number, too, and i also have a number that since 9/11, 115,000 single parents of both sexes have been sent in the war on terror, have been deployed. >> thank you very much, rai sue. coming up next, sex addicts and dr. drew. back in a second.

my primary addiction whether i like it or not is a sexual one. i mean it's not, like even though drugs and alcohol played a huge part, and i got sober, really, all of the stuff that preceded that and all the history when i look at it now as a recovering sex addict, is all, has all been about sex. >> that was a clip from the vh-1 show "sex rehab with dr. drew." you may think that sex addiction is typical reality show fodder but between 3% and 6% of the american population say they are sex addicts. recently i had a chance to talk

to dr. drew pinsky and two sex addicts from his vh-1 show, duncan roy and nicole lorraine. i saw nicole's colin farrell's sex tape. >> i can't see you watching that but that's cool, i guess. >> i had my secrets. steve phillips, you know this guy? >> yep. >> espn, he has sex with a 22-year-old. he gets caught and goes to sex rehab. is he really a sex addict or horny guy? >> we don't know him but he had to meet the criteria in order to get treated about sexual addicts. people get glib it's an excuse. if he hadn't been caught. substitute cocaine instead of sex and it's the same thing. the courts bring people to treatment, families bring people to treatment, the doctors bring people to treatment. it's relatively rare people stand up, i think i need to get

my cocaine addiction treated today. the sex addiction is the exact same way. >> somebody has to -- >> you have to -- >> you have to get caught. >> there has to be sufficient consequences. >> he was accused of taking the easy way out going into rehab, i heard you on "the view" saying that the other way. the easy way out is to leave your wife and end up in a hotel room with coke and hookers. that's the easy way out, not to stand up and say i'm putting my hands up, i need help. >> i don't remember saying that was the easy way out. you're getting me mixed up with whoopi goldberg. >> easy thing to do. >> what about letterman, what do you think about that case? >> i don't know what that's all about. the one that sort of stands out as an easy one in the history record book is bill clinton. that's an easy one to go, somebody who had horrible consequences from what seems to be an addictive process. >> do you think he's addicted to sex or no self-control? what's the difference? >> doctor go ahead.

nicole wanted to ring in, too. >> nicole, ring in. >> well, the thing is, i spoke to dr. drew about this recently because i was struggling with the fact that i had so many questions after i was on the show, and i explained to him that you know, being a sex addict, and being someone who is, you know, addicted to love, where being, being a love addict and having that fear of abandonment, and that underlying fear of intimacy, i was asking him, how do you deem yourself recovered from that, whereas i think it's a lot more treatable to be recovered from being a sex addict, where, you know, like in duncan's case, you know, being online eight, nine hours a day just watching porn i would imagine at some point that can be recovered. >> not to mention the carpal tunnel syndrome. [ laughter ] you know, is there a difference between a female addict and male addict? the way she described it, it sounds more like women who love

too much. >> women tend to statistically come to sex addiction through love addiction, so they have these elaborate fantasies. we've all had them, we've been teenagers and outgrow them. some people get stuck in them, romeo and juliet were love addicts and people look at that and point that out as a reason that romance should be sort of defended. the outcome there wasn't so good. if one of my patients ended up like that i wouldn't be too happy. >> romeo and juliet is because of the families disagreerd. "west side story" it's the same thing. >> let's finish the point. the fantasy becomes paramount when there's a real relationship, intimacy is disorderly, not tolerated and they cheat. >> the myth about sex sex. >> hold on nicole. >> the myth sex addiction is it's about sex, it's not. >> it's emptiness. >> it's about intrigue, flirtation. those are just as important, pornography. >> how much is danger involved

in all of it, too? >> for me a lot. >> for you. >> i was completely obsessed with dangerous sexual encounters with strange guys, straight guys who had been the last time i relapsed was in token square park with a cop with a gun at my head. >> so it's more about the thrill of the danger getting caught? >> for me it's about replicating the trauma. >> let's talk about the trauma. >> do you understand that? >> i understand you had a trauma as a young child which is very serious thing. >> we can laugh about it. >> no, i can't laugh about that. we'll move on to other things that are funny but this is not. because you were basically raped by your stepfather, am i right? >> from 2 to 13. >> 2 years old, that is not funny. >> the average age of sex abusing of kids is about 2 to 3 years old, that's the average age. people are abusing infants. >> it's unbelievable. we have sort of come through a wave of this, that is just spectacular and the consequences in adulthood are the reputation

of the traumas through sexual acting out and compulsively repeating traumas over and over again, becoming a prostitute, becoming a stripper, by going for dangerous situations, whatever it might be, people compulsivecy replicate these things. >> do all sex addicts have child abuse in their past? >> not all but it's very common. >> nicole were you sexually abused as a child? >> i definitely grew up having my boundaries violated definitely. >> and neglect, too, abandonment. >> neglect and abandonment. >> right. i was kicked out at 16 years old, so you know, i had to learn survival at such a young age, and before being, you know, and on top of that, having your boundaries violated, that confusion doesn't really help, now that, you know, like i'm out there in the world in the streets by myself, it's like okay, what do i do now? how do i handle all of this. what's right? what's wrong? where do i go find comfort, and what man and how do i trust that

man? >> well said. >> well said how she puts it succinctly. with k we talk about your addiction? >> when i'm at my home pornography is very debilitating. i'm talking about getting up in the morning, seven days a week and sitting at my computer all day. >> okay, how much does the internet actually play in all of this? >> there's a huge problem with the internet because the internet -- you want to do this? >> i want you to do it. >> you're on the internet. >> i'll sprinkle the highlights on top of it. >> the problem with the internet is that in years gone by before the internet came, you know, people would find images and they'd be the same kind of images and if they evolved sexually through into wanting to see other more dangerous things, it would be very hard for them. now you're only three clicks away from something that would land you in prison and that's a

huge, you know, when we're talking about unmanageability and powerlessness. >> you got to remember it's really changed the landscape, having this portal on everyone's desk is like having a crack pipe for the sex addict on their desk all the time. >> really, okay. let me ask nicole, how bad did your addiction get, nicole? i understand you were in masturbation a lot. >> right. >> isn't that from anxiety, all that masturbating? >> it's a way of managing feelings. >> you know what? i really try hard not to think about mast butting too much. i had a moment where i really did, could not get out of bed one day because it was a consta constant thing. that was an exhausting day. i didn't want to eat food because that was my food for the day. it was exhausting, and it was scary, because it consumed my entire day, and i try very hard to not have any triggers around,

you know, around me where i would feel like i need to masturbate today because i'm fearful of not getting out of bed for the day but -- i'm definitely a lot better. i'm still human, don't get me wrong. >> yes. >> we all have to clean the pipes once in a while. >> masturbation like that is an addiction? i mean if you stopped eating. >> sure. >> it could cure your addiction to food. think about it that way. everyone, more to come. stick around. always look on the bright side.

now you had some trauma, right? >> um-hum. >> what happened? >> certain family members just, you know, just touch you inappropriately, and things that i know were wrong, but you know what i mean, like for me it's like i don't know how you talk about this stuff. >> sure, of course, i'm sure you were threatened, too, by some of these people, right? you didn't deserve that, did you?

>> right. >> okay, that was a clip from the vh-1 show "sex rehab with dr. drew." dr. drew, okay, let me ask you how do you treat sexual addiction? what do you do? >> it's different than other addictions it's so deeply embedded who the person is and also deeply embedded in trauma as we talked about. the big difference for me was that you leap very quickly into very heavy landscape, very deep issues come up very quickly and evocative fashion. lots of education sex rehab. drug addicts won't sit through the education sexual addicts gobble up. it's interesting. when you have the appropriate candidate at the appropriate level of care they really respond well to it and so a sex rehab treatment center has got to have patients that have tolerance to evokation and change with stuff that's subtle and deeply embedded who they are. >> you can't have a.d.d. at the same time. >> it's difficult but some people do. >> yes. >> you've been working with -- >> chemical addicts. >> chemical addicts and

surprised by the way they responded. >> we put together this great team and i sort of inserted myself into the team. these guys their courage was spectacular and the way they let into the process was something new for me compared to what drug addicts do who resist the process or loop and use it as a reason to do drugs. >> sex addicts more hard to cure. >> 13 years by the time i hit this wall. >> dhchemical. i've been sober from drugs and alcohol for 13 years, and then about eight months before i did the show i really hit this wall in my sobriety where i realized i had transferred all of my addictions into sex and internet and all the other stuff that i was doing. >> that's an interesting point to me, that people who are addicted to one thing, they give that up, and then they pick up another addiction. >> they can, yes, they can. addiction is a motivational disturbance in the deep recesses of the brain, there's no logic, no reason, no language. >> so now you gave up booze and drugs. >> yes.

>> and you've been rehabilitated as a sex addict, right, duncan? almost? >> you know there's no cure for addiction. it's a progressive -- >> yes. >> -- condition, which can be arrested. all i have to do on a daily basis is arrest my condition. i mean that's really all i can do. >> nicole was saying that sex addiction is so deeply emotional which is very much that much, it's so much of an emotional process, yes, nicole? >> because there's so much trauma, that's the difference between being the sex addict and dealing with the abandonment and intimacy issues which is way more traumatizing and you're dealing with a lot more emotions so. >> it's very interesting how some addicts become very religious, i notice. they become extremely -- >> spiritual. >> george bush was an alcoholic and then he became very, very requlinlgious and it was all about the lord. it's like another addiction in a certain way. >> addicts are prone to extremities, they really are. >> yes. >> religiosity and all, i don't see that that much. you'd be surprised. yes i agree with that case but i

don't see that much. >> george bush would have appreciated a 12-step program i'm sure. >> he should have gone through it. >> he would have been a better guy, i'm sure. >> on your show you have eight good-looking sex addicts living together? isn't that a press pi for disaster? [ laughter ] >> maybe "the joy behar show" but we keep the drug addicts together. they do drugs together. >> there's no drugs around but people are there, good looking people. >> but we really wanted it. that's the difference. >> we really wanted what? >> sobriety. >> i really wanted sexual sobriety and a lot of those people were desperate, my friend jenny, all of the people had come to the end of the road. of course there was flirtation and kind of the immediate kind of like oh, yeah, that's cute or this is cute but the point is that you wanted sobriety more than you wanted to get laid again. >> and we helped them in that, had them dress a certain way, not allowed to touch each other. we were on them constantly. >> during the night? come on.

>> it's impossible. >> we were in bed by 10:00. >> we were on them. we had nursing staff on them. just the way we watch for drugs and alcohol in the unit we watch for sex aisle inproprieties. we cannot monitor masturbation. we trusted them to tell us when they slipped. >> once. >> nicole did you confess? >> no i didn't. >> she made it. >> i made it through. >> good for you. >> thanks. >> they're all gorgeous people. are there any ugly sex addicts that do treatment? are all of them gorgeous? >> i don't cast these shows. if i come upon somebody and they need treatment i can't say wait the cameras heat up in a couple of months. i stay out of that part as much as i can. >> there are more women than men. i had a question about that, i think that mostly sex addicts are male? >> i think explicitly sex addicts but a lot of love addicts flirting with sexual addiction. >> the women get a spin, love addicts. the men are sex addicts.

>> i think the appropriate -- >> it's funny, i wish there was almost a different name for love addict because it sounds so, like, oh, so sweet and trite. >> it's codependency. >> it is, yes. >> it's such a deeper issue when you're dealing with abandonment and intimacy issues. i didn't know there was a difference between sex and love. i thought they were the same thing until i did the show. >> a lot of people make that mistake. you're not alone in that. >> that is true but that's how people get in trouble right there. listen, we live in a time when this country we have destroyed intimacy and the substitute for that are arousing activities and extreme sports and intensity and power and control. that is not intimacy. we've lost track of that. our families have been disrupted for a long time and so we don't have good models for intimacy and sex becomes the surrogate or fantasy becomes the surrogate. that's what any dole is talking about. >> and my relationships that's what i dealt with. i lived most of my relationships in intensity rather than intimacy. >> are you both abs nent now?

you can tour with sarah palin. >> the thing about it is, this is what people get confused about with sex for me i'm not allowed to joke off impulsively. i'm not allowed to masturbate impulsively, look at internet porn or hookup sites but i'm allowed to have sex with cons t consenting adults. >> the danger thing, you don't feel that anymore? >> that's absolutely the bottom line. this thing is the absolutely worst thing -- >> that's a tough one. more when we come back.

i'm back with my guest, dr. drew pingsky from the vh1 show "sex rehab with dr. drew" and duncan roy and playboy playmate nicole marine. i have questions from people who tweeted and twittered and all that. let me read a couple of them. we went through this, what are the differences between male and female. one is love and one is sex, sort of. >> they end up in the same place often the roads there tend to be different. >> this is from eve bear, do you think the way we americans view sex has something to do with the problem of sexual addiction? >> i don't. people make a big deal that we are so prudish and peer tan call. i don't see that.

i see nothing but sex everywhere in the country. you come from another country. >> you're from england, i take it? >> i don't see it as being prudish but see you as having strict ideas about the whole gay, straight thing. for me, that's so american because i think people have a lot more sexual fluidity in europe than they do here. a lot of my male friends have had encounters with other men but here, they'd be, oh, he's in the closet, he's in denial. it's just like, okay, i tried it, it wasn't for me, move on. >> that's why people say all the brits are gay. now we know why. >> strangely enough, most straight men would encourage women to, like, maybe perform for them, you know, to women. that's like a big -- you know, what does that mean for most women? that they're really closeted lesbians? i don't think so. >> it's different for women? >> why? >> i don't know. explain to me, like, you know,

when we talk about pedophilia or exhibitionism. those are in another cat giegorf sexual addictions. >> they can be another cat care or could be start of sexual addiction. >> pedophilia, has a lot of trouble treating those poem. >> one of the things we tell patients is get help before you hurt somebody else or yourself. those roads you go down -- >> how about medication? does that work at all? >> medicine has a role to be played but really only in certain diagnostic situations. it's not treatment for sexual addiction, per se. >> let me do another run. jana was married to a sex addicts if more than 20 years. he needed the danger, the threat of being caught and the possibility of dying during sex. >> well, duncan said that's him, too. here's the -- >> of dying. did you ever feel that. >> i was trying to replicate what i was doing when i was a kid. when you are being raped when you are 4 years old you are kind of dying.

the pain is overwhelming. you think -- you're being challenged in so many ways. finding that as an adult often takes you into very, very terrible places. >> let me get a last word from nicole. nicole, do you feel like you're almost over this? where are you in all this? >> i'm in los angeles right now. >> no, i mean, where are you emotionally? >> oh. >> that might have said it. i'm not sure. >> i think you're right. >> i'm so glad i dyed my hair back brown. where am i recovering? believe it or not, i feel really good about my recovery right now. i actually haven't even had sex in, like, over a month and that's just my choice. >> good for you. she's better. >> yeah. i'm single. >> hear that, fellows? she's single. thanks to all my guests tonight and thank you all for watching. good night, everybody.

breaking news tonight, live, north carolina. a 5-year-old little girl vanishes without a trace from the child's own home. mommy tells police she left the little girl on the sofa 5:30 a.m. one hour later the baby's gone. how does a 5-year-old girl go missing from her own sofa? the child wearing nothing but a t-shirt and underwear. shaniya's favorite blanket found discarded, covered in feces in the neighbor's trash. after grainy surveillance video surfaces of a 29-year-old man carrying the child into a local hotel room, the search for baby

shaniya comes to an end. police find her little body hidden in dense woods. the man in the video, mario mcneill, confesses to taking shaniya to the hotel, but then he clams up. in a heart-wrenching and disgusting twist, shaniya's own mother behind bars for selling the little girl for sex. bombshell tonight. a source reveals the baby found hidden under thick vines, downed branches, and trees, wearing only the little t-shirt she left home in. no pants. these details emerging about the crime scene tonight. how long had the body been there? don't know yet. and tonight we learn mommy first seems hysterical but then calm, cool, and collected when she dials 911 to report the girl

gone, suggesting repeatedly to dispatch that the 5-year-old unlocked the front door herself and left on her own. yeah. right. we have that 911 call tonight. also, were drugs being sold out of the home? mommy and co-defendant in protective custody tonight. but she got one visitor. the man she first blamed for the kidnapping. as police hint more charges to come. there really are no words to describe this mother. she doesn't even deserve the compliment of mother. her and her cohorts' animalistic behavior screams out for the north carolina death penalty. tonight, shaniya's older brother with us live taking your calls at this hour as that tiny body still sits in a morgue. we want justice for shaniya.

>> found her. >> all right. >> call command and tell them. >> i can't bless you for this day, but i bless you for my daughter. bring her into your arms. >> what time did you wake up? when did you last see her? >> i saw her at 5:30 last night. >> 5:30 last night, is that when you put her to bed? >> yes, ma'am.

no, when she went back to bed. >> okay. that was 5:00 this morning. is that what you're telling me? >> yes, ma'am. >> okay. were there any doors open or anything like that? >> she knows how to unlock the front door. >> just knowing my little baby's up there with you is making me comfort right now. you brought her home, man. you brought her home. >> good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. details emerging on the initial burial ground for little shaniya. as mommy and her cohorts sit behind bars in protective custody. >> we got a tip. somebody in the parking lot said they had heard on the news or something that the guy admitted to killing the young child and dumping her where there was deer carcasses and trash.

and we remember driving through here earlier and smelling something pretty nasty. so we came back to check it and sure enough there were deer carcasses and trash and some of the officers from the virgin islands went through here and actually saw her in there, and the dogs were showing a lot of interest. so we checked it out and confirmed. >> don't give up on me, and don't give up on shaniya. she's right there with you. >> your door was not unlocked? that's what you're telling me? >> no, it was not unlocked. but i'm telling you she knows how to unlock it. i'm hoping she didn't unlock it and walk out. >> i got her out of the car and i kissed her good-bye, and i told her to be a good girl. she turned back to me and said, "i love you, aunt carey, and see you later." >> you said none of the doors were open? >> no, ma'am, they were locked, but she knows how to unlock the front door. >> was it closed this morning? >> yes, ma'am. >> and you said it was around 5:30? >> yes, ma'am. >> okay. have you checked the neighborhood? >> i checked everywhere. i haven't checked the back end of the neighborhood yet but i checked the front end. i don't know what else to do.

i'm so -- i don't know what else to do. >> you want me to believe but you give me no faith to believe. but i just know that you're walking with me and you've got my daughter looking down. >> that is shaniya's father, literally broken in half in grief. he couldn't even stand up. he had just let the mother have a chance at trying to be a mother to her little girl. he traveled for work. he had been out of town. the mom had her for five weeks. and in those five weeks, according to police, she sold her little girl into prostitution. her 5-year-old little girl, who is now dead. right now police are hinting there are more charges to come. does that mean felony murder

charges, or does that mean more people? are there more men involved in the torture and murder of this little child? let's see what we can learn. you've heard this much of it, but now listen to the whole 911 tape where this mother, according to police, has just sold her child, handed over her little child dressed in underwear and a t-shirt to a man to sell her into sex. here she is.

>> okay. hold on. before i go to the reporters,

let's unleash the lawyers. we're taking your calls live. susan moss, child advocate, family law attorney, new york. raymond giudice, felony defense attorney, atlanta. and alex sanchez, renowned in his jurisdiction, defense attorney in new york. alex sanchez, first to you. i was just taking a little time check. she hadn't even been on the line one minute before she says for the first of three times, she knows how to get out of the door. she knows how to unlock the lock. and within 26 seconds the hysteria has this appeared. she's calm, cool, and collected. why? why, alex sanchez? >> i do not know why. but what i do know is that the police have released very few details about what happened. so i'm not even exactly clear what facts led to her arrest at this point. so whether or not that phone call has any validity or not at this point, you know, i'm not in a position to say. >> okay. at least you said that with a straight face. giudice, are you going to sing

that same verse, same as the first, or you've got something new for me? >> this phone call gives her defense team a big problem. she can't come up with the defense was hey, my friend said he was going to take her over to the mall to buy her some shoes. >> whoa. put giudice up. you know what? you know what, ray? >> yes, ma'am. >> i respect that. even though it's complete b.s. because what you're admitting to is -- >> she can't do that. >> -- that they are going to tailor their defense to what they have already committed to. not a search for the truth. but you're right. she's screwed up immediately in the 911 because we've got -- you explain it from your point of view. >> well, she's boxed in. like i say, she can't say my buddy came over said she was going to take her over to the mall to buy her some shoes. she's reported the child missing. she's got to stick with that story. from her perspective her defense team is this is either a kidnapping or the child wandered off and somehow mcneill got a hold of her. >> okay, sue moss. hit me. >> she walked out the door, but

yet the door was locked from the inside. come on, that makes no sense. this woman is going down, and thank goodness for that. >> lord, i know you're gracious, and i know you're good, and you're giving it to me for a reason, but i love you, lord. don't give up on me, and don't give up on shaniya. she's right there with you.

found her? all right. i'll call. >> call command and tell them. >> we got a tip. somebody in the parking lot said they had heard on the news or something that the guy admitted to killing the young child and dumping her where there was deer carcasses and trash. and we remembered driving through here earlier and smelling something pretty nasty. so we came back to check it, and sure enough there were deer carcasses and trash. and then some of the officers from the virgin islands went through here and actually saw her in there. and the dogs were showing a lot of interest. so we checked it out and confirmed. >> i stand before all of you.

i stand before this country with a very humble heart. i want to extend my deepest appreciation to all those who have prayed for shaniya, that's cared for shaniya, that have expressed their concern, and they share this pain that myself and my family has had to endure. my heart bleeds and hopes and prays that this community, this country, can unite as one to possibly prevent something like this from happening again to another special angel. >> i held shaniya so deeply, and she filled my heart and my soul. and to think that this has happened, to every pedophile, every person who thinks of

kidnapping a child, please beware, i'll be watching. and shaniya and i will not go quietly into the night. >> straight out to gurnal scott with wptf radio. gurnal, thank you for being with us. gurnal, please give me the latest. i want to hear the details of the crime scene because, gurnal, i've got a theory. i think where that child's body, her initial burial ground, where her body was left suggests very strongly that this is a local person that knew where to put a body. >> that's what you would think when you see where deer carcasses and trash, someplace where they knew that it would be hard for a body to be found. if you look at it that way, yes, you're right. it seems like somebody knew the area, knew the place to put a body, and it would make it tough for any searchers, police, dogs, perhaps masked any scent that i body would -- would come off a

body with the deer carcasses. they would know that that could throw people off. >> you know, gurnal scott, just to hear you describe it is making me literally nauseous, to think that beautiful child, that gorgeous little girl was left here under all that kudzu and downed branches and tree trunks beside a dead deer carcass is just absolutely horrific. and that mother is the one that sold her into prostitution according to police? gurnal scott, the reason i'm so interested in the crime scene is this. we have mario andrette mcneill, age 29. let's show the video, liz. you're seeing some exclusive crime scene video taken in the last hours. the scene still being processed. we've got mcneill taking her

into a hotel room. all right. we know for a fact he's in the hotel room. i think we're going to show you that video, liz. we know he's in the hotel room for about one hour with the girl. there we go. he leaves with the girl. she's still alive apparently as they leave. now, it doesn't make sense to me that he sells her into prostitution to say somebody out of town and then she turns up dead in a local ravine. that doesn't make sense. if he's really sold her to somebody, why don't they take her away, take her to mexico, take her to new york? let her blend in with the crowd. that says to me this murder is close to home, gurnal scott. what do you think? >> there is a -- that is a very compelling case. and as you mentioned earlier, we still don't know who else may be involved in this. there was a news conference scheduled for today. the police department in fayetteville said new information, pushed that news conference to tomorrow. are there other people that are

going to be charged in this case? will the murder charges come? we don't know just yet. >> you know another thing i noticed -- let's unleash the lawyers. we'll be back with gurnal scott, marlaina schiavo and billy liggett from the "sanford herald" in just a moment. we're taking your calls live. back to you, giudice. i was analyzing that mother's 911 call. she didn't know what her child had on exactly? i can tell you right now, eyes closed, what lucy and john david have on because i dress them. an aquamarine pajama outfit with pink cupcakes and a navy blue choo-choo train pajama set for john david. but she didn't know, ray. why? >> nancy, parents know everything. as a recent stepfather and you're a recent mother, we both know, we know everything about our children. it's imprinted in our mind. and that's a real problem for her. >> which leads me, sue moss, to the startling discovery tonight that the child may have been found only in the t-shirt, no pants, sue moss.

she didn't have her little pants on. >> you know what that means. pimp out your kid for the highest bid. she'll look at death for what she did. and i say good rid.

we are taking your calls live. i want to go straight out to yvette in tennessee. hi, yvette. >> caller: hi, nancy. i would like to ask a question about the surveillance when he was getting into the elevator. it looked like shaniya was holding a blanket. is that the blanket that they found in the trash can? >> good question. what do we know about that, marlaina schiavo? i don't think it's the same one. >> you're right, nancy. it's not the same blanket because that blanket was taken into evidence. and we also know that blanket was covered in feces and was not a clean blanket like the one shown in the surveillance. >> marlaina, what more can you tell me tonight?

what else have we learned? >> we've learned quite a few things, nancy. one thing we learned from mcneill's lawyer was that there might be more charges coming his way. he didn't want to say specifically if it was going to be human trafficking charges and murder charges, because no one has told him that, but that's the assumption he's making. we also spoke to clarence coe, who was antoinette davis' boyfriend, the man she implicated in this case in the beginning who was originally arrested and then released. and he had a lot to say. he stands behind antoinette. he claims she was a good mother who was a hard-working person and he seems to be very shocked by all of this. >> now, what can you tell me about coe visiting her behind bars? this is the guy she first pointed to as the kidnapper. he got arrested. >> he did. and he was charged. it wasn't until mcneill came forward that they actually dropped these charges. he would still be behind bars at this point. but anyway, he said to me that he was going to visit her today behind bars. he supports her.

he's very confused by all of this. she's also pregnant with his child. that is also a concern of his. so i'm still waiting to hear from him, and we're going to find out what she has to say right now tonight behind bars. >> she's always happy and giggling. you would never think anybody would do that to her. she's just the sweetest little girl.

don't give up on me, and don't give up on shaniya. she's right there with you. >> there's no easy way to report this. little shaniya is dead. >> her body was found yesterday off a dirt road in sanford, north carolina. witnesses say her body was on the ground, it was clothed only in a t-shirt. >> police had been searching that area. they were combing the roads, they were combing the woods. and they told me they found a body about 100 feet off the road into the woods. >> this body was found about seven miles away from the surveillance that we had last

seen of shaniya in the arms of a man by the name of mario mcneill. >> police have charged shaniya's 25-year-old mother, whom you see here, with human trafficking and felony child abuse. >> her mother, i would never think that she would do something like that. >> why do you say that, cheyenne? >> she just seemed like the sweetest woman. >> this woman pimped her child. that's what she did. she sold her child into prostitution. there is no punishment great enough to meet the crimes that she has committed.

>> i come to you with open arms, and it's hard! it's hard! >> hard, man. it's hard. >> you want me to believe, but you give me no faith to believe! i just know that you're walking with me and you've got my daughter looking down. and i love you, jesus. >> hallelujah! >> hallelujah. >> just give me the strength. >> we are taking your calls.

straight out to theresa in new york. hi, theresa. >> caller: hi. how are you, nancy? >> i'm good, dear. >> caller: good. you kind of answered it. i was just wondering, the creep in the video, do they feel he was bringing the poor baby to somebody else? you said they had video of him leaving also. why wouldn't they show that? >> to billy liggett with the "sanford herald," joining us there in sanford, north carolina. mr. liggett, thank you for being with us. >> good evening. >> what is the theory right now? i mean, he's only in the room with the child for an hour. that's time do plenty with a 5-year-old defenseless little girl. but where was he taking her? he's clammed up behind bars. did he hand her off to somebody else, or is the most obvious and simplest solution the answer, that he in fact is responsible for the murder? what is the thinking, billy liggett? >> he is really the only suspect other than the mother right now. the only video footage that's been released to the media shows him carrying the child, and it's

really only two still photos. they haven't showed actual video to anybody. so they're not saying if there's anybody else of interest. mr. scott said earlier that the wooded area where -- in lake county where the body was dumped would probably confirm that he knew the area well. and i kind of disagree with that because the wooded area is actually right off the main highway. and it's less than a mile off the main highway. and it's in between sanford and fayetteville. and it would appear to me that in between the two cities that he saw this little wooded highway, you know, whoever it is that dumped the body turned right, went down there, dumped the body less than 100 feet from the highway, got right back on the main highway, and probably they're headed to fayetteville or sanford. we don't have any idea why he's familiar with sanford. they're not releasing that information. the only thing -- the only thing we have on him is that he was at the hotel and that he is currently in custody. we don't have any other

information as if he was handing it off to somebody, handing her off to somebody or anything like that. >> got it. to dr. carey peterson, joining us from lennox hill hospital, dr. peterson, thank you for being with us. >> hi, nancy. >> i think it's going to be extremely important, critical, the time of death. how many days that child had been there. if she had only been lying there for a couple of hours, that means it's very likely he could have passed her off to some other man. if she had been there for a period of days, up to nearly a week, that points back to him more closely. >> you are absolutely right. and i think that autopsy will help determine within about a 24 to 48-hour period the time of death. what they'll look at is just the stage of decomposition of the body. and based on the appearance of the external body and the internal cavity they can get a pretty good timeline within a day or so. >> really?

so even though the body may have been there for a week, they may be able to pin it down to a day? >> to within i would say 24 to 48 hours. probably -- >> and especially if there are colonies of, for instance, coffin flies, maggots -- >> exactly. >> -- hair, you can determine how long, what advanced state the larva is at and you can determine then how long the body's been there. >> exactly. when the body decomposes, it goes through characteristic physical changes. and also the insect infestation progresses. >> it's kind of hard, dr. peterson, to take a look at this little girl with that big smile and know that she is now dead. and that video of her at that hotel is just -- wrenches my stomach because that could be her killer carrying her out with one of her favorite blankets. handed over by her mommy. in addition to dr. keri peterson out of new york joining us is

dr. lillian glass, psychologist, body language expert, author of "i know what you're thinking." out of l.a. dr. glass, trust me. she's not lying distraught in the jail tonight. she's not lying on a cot crying her eyes out. i guarantee tonight she got served beef stew with rice, cooked cabbage, fruit cob -- well, she had dessert. and fruit punch. you know darn well mommy didn't give back the food tray. she's fine. she's fine. did you hear her on that 911 call? she's not worried. she's not upset. >> nancy, it's disgusting. and i think you brought it up really well earlier in the show when you said there was a change in her tone, a change in her voice. >> yeah. less than 30 seconds. >> all of a sudden she starts -- >> less than 30 seconds. i timed it. >> right. exactly. and that was a very good thing that you brought up because it shows that this is phony, that she knows what's going on, and it's not sincere. and then she mentioned so many

times that the daughter can open the door, she can open the door. she's setting it up. and nancy, when you look at the surveillance tapes it's very scary and it's also gut wrenching because when you look at the position of shaniya's legs, it's a defensive reaction and it's very disturbing. >> poor little thing. look at her. she didn't have on any socks. all she had on was her little underwear and a shirt. in the hands of that guy. >> it's just horrible. awful. >> to paul penzone, director of prevention programs, childhelp.org, former sergeant with phoenix police. penzone, weigh in. >> i've got to tell you, nancy, my background is i spent six years working undercover. and i've been in the home of drug users, drug addicts. they serve another master. they have no right to be parents because that child in any home of that environment is not being raised properly. so what happens here is she had other priorities. that child was not one of them. and there is no punishment that

is severe enough for what she deserves. if you're a destruct addict and you have a child, you don't want to care for it, there are plenty of loving families who would give that child the family they deserve. drop them off at child help's door because we'll take care of them. but this is a disgusting case and no punishment is enough for her or for the man who was involved. there's going to be another crime scene somewhere. so let's keep our eyes open for that because i doubt she was murdered at the location she was dumped, and that's going to tell the story. >> and marlaina schiavo, haven't you heard from sources that they didn't just use drugs, they sold drugs out of that home? >> unfortunately, yes, nancy. and we know there was a drug raid over the summer. and i was told that family members were in and out of the house where shaniya lived, where shaniya's mother lived, and there were family members selling drugs outside. >> you know, jail is too good for this woman and her cohort. everyone, we are taking your calls live, but as we go to break, on a happy note, believe you me, i'm going to be hugging

them in their sleep when i get home. the n.g. family album. here are some photos of the twins. some of my favorites. this is right after we brought them home from intensive care and they had that little play toy. here they are in their double stroller. they couldn't hold their heads up. i had to put a towel or a blanky around their heads to keep their heads up. here are family photos from our friends of the show. connecticut friends vicki, 2-year-old daughter ava dressed as a tiger for halloween. kentucky friends of the show linda, brian, kayla, michael, furry friends jasmine and rooster. they never, ever miss a show.

we love you so much. i can't bless you for this day, but i bless you for my daughter. >> yes, lord. >> the last time i saw shaniya was four weeks ago on a friday. er went and took her to visit

her mother. i packed her with two days' worth of clothes. i got her out of the car, and i kissed her good-bye, and i told her to be a good girl. she turned back to me and said, "i love you, aunt carey, and see you later." i have to go. i'm sorry. no more comments.

>> joining us right now, special guest shaniya's brother, byron coleman. mr. coleman, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> mr. coleman, when did you learn that shaniya's body had been found? >> i heard thursday -- or yesterday, actually. i'm sorry. i had got a couple phone calls from a couple of friends in greensboro and raleigh, and people that have been following the story, supporting me and my family since day one. and they actually have been asking me if i was all right. and i didn't hear the news at all because i live in charlotte. and right before it came on cnn my father called me and he told me right before i hear the news that they did find a body and it possibly could be shaniya's. >> what did you know about the mother?

>> me and antoinette really didn't have a relationship. i didn't know much about her. the only thing me and antoinette ever said to each other was a hi when i was picking up shaniya and a bye, how have you been? >> how often had you been there to pick up shaniya?