breaking news tonight, live, north carolina. a little 5-year-old girl vanishes without a trace. from the child's own home. mommy tells police she left the girl on the sofa, 5:30 a.m. one hour later, the baby is gone. how? how does a 5-year-old girl go missing from her own sofa? the child wearing t-shirt and under wear. her blanket covered in feces in

the trash. a 29-year-old man carrying the child in a local hotel room. the search for baby shaniya comes to an end. police find her little body hidden in the woods. he confesses to taking her to the hotel, then clams up. in a heart wrenching and disgusting twist, why was he free. able to take the little girl in the first place. he's got a rap sheet a mile long including shooting several people. running over a cop. why wasn't he in maximum

security instead of checking into a hotel with a 5-year-old girl. tonight, we confirm another twist. after repeat inspections of mommy's house, no one bothered to tell shaniya's dad. he had no idea. why did mommy pull the 5-year-old out of school in october, as soon as daddy leaves down. red flags everywhere. tonight, as police hint more charges to come, there are no words to describe this mother. she doesn't deserve the compliment of mother. her and her animalistic behavior screams out for the north carolina death penalty. at this hour, as that tiny body still sits in a cold morgue, we want justice for shaniya.

>> we remember driving through here and smelling something pretty nasty. there were deer caucuses and trash. they went through here and actually saw her. >> positive id on the side of the highway. more charges are expected anytime now. >> did you engage in human trafficking with a child as the victim. knowingly provide shanika davis with the intent she be held in sexual servitude. do you understand that charge? >> have they told anybody what was the cause of death, byron?

>> actually, i haven't heard anything. i don't think my father has either. we're not sure yet. we're still trying to figure it out now, so, i mean -- >> there's your dad right there. there's your dad. would you please -- >> i really do want to thank everybody for the support and prayers. it really does mean a lot. we want everybody to stay as strong as they can. we know it's hard. tonight, live to the heartland, a 9-year-old missouri girl walked home from a play date about 1,000 feet. never makes it home. the body of 9-year-old elizabeth olson found houses from her own home. murder suspects in court today, it's a 15-year-old girl.

details we learn in court? stunning. including three causes of death. have you ever had somebody go inside you and rip your heart out? that's what it's like. >> the 15-year-old girl accused of killing the 9-year-old elizabeth olson is going to be tried as an adult. she's facing first degree murder and armed criminal action charge that is could send her to prison for life without the possibility of parole. >> the sheriff wants first degree charges. he says it's something that was planned. they have written evidence and they talked with the 15-year-old girl. >> malice or premeditation is formed in the blink of an eye,

the time to raise a gun and pull the trigger. >> she stabbed elizabeth to death, feet from her own home. >> there's a preoccupation seeking harm and rendering the victims into a very helpless state. ♪ >> in court, moments ago, set, shackled and silent as the judge read the charges to a teen not old enough to vote. a teen who may never see the outside of a jail cell, again. crimes against a defenseless 9-year-old girl. >> if the crime is premeditated, she's going to do adult time. good evening, i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. tonight, 5-year-old shaniya's life nothing more than a payment on a drug debt?

>> the shocking 911 call from shaniya davis' mom. the same mom now charged with selling that beautiful little girl as a sex slave. giving her 5-year-old as a prostitute. >> i told her to be a good girl. she turned back to me and said, i love you aunt carrie. see you later. >> my father gave her a chance to give the mother a second chance to raise her daughter. everybody deserves a second chance, like a convicted felon, he deserves a second chance.

>> none of the doors were open? >> me and everybody that loves shaniya. the little baby. the strength to continue on. >> straight out to gurnal scott with ptf radio in raleigh north carolina. thank you for being with us. please tell me i'm wrong. reports that the life of 5-year-old shaniya was worst nothing more to the mother than payment on a drug debt? >> i hope we can tell you you are wrong. we know there's a connection

that they have been together, they have hung out together, there may have been a debt that needed to be paid. we are understanding she may have owed him money. you, i, everyone are finding it hard to believe a little girl's life could be used as payment. we don't want to believe that. >> let's see if we can add two and two together tonight. okay, work with me. number one, we know, according to you and your sources last night that drugs were allegedly sold out of the home, number one. two, we know mario mcneil the 29-year-old man caught on camera taking the child into the hotel room had a drug history. he's got a rap sheet as long as the interstate. she hands over the baby, according to police, to mckneel,

to be a child prostitute. what more do i need to know? >> as a result of the drug raid that happened over the summer, they found instruments in the home to manufacture drugs out of her home. we know people were in and out of the home selling drugs. she had dealings with mcneil before shaniya disappeared. she owed him money. you would have to conclude possibly she owed him money for drugs. >> that is what sources are telling us tonight. >> to matt, the producer on the story. let's talk about mcneil for a moment. what is his history? >> it's a mile long. it started in june, 2001. he was arrested for shooting someone in the face, neck, shoulder and arms. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. shooting someone in the face, neck, shoulders and arm. if i'm correct, matt, two other

people, that makes three people injured in that shooting incident. >> you're right. he was out waiting on trial. a year later, he was arrested again, this time for drug possession. >> stop, pause. pause, pause. >> did you just say he was out waiting for trial? in other words, a judge let him out on a shooting, a multiple shooting? go ahead, please. put the rap sheet back up. >> he pleads to two lesser charges. he's given 40 months of probation. >> straight probation for shooting someone in the face and drug charges. but, it doesn't end there, does it? >> no, it doesn't. a couple months later, he violates the probation. he's arrested for drug probation. he's sent to prison from october

2003 to may 2006. >> so, this is the man pictured carrying little 5-year-old shaniya in his arms, into a hotel room. thanks, mommy. >> you can see from when mario was carrying her, how shaniya's hair was. in the car, she had her hair slicked back. shaniya was -- my father took very good care of her.

have they told anybody what was the cause of death, byron? >> they actually, i haven't heard anything. i don't think my father has, either. we're not really sure too much yet. we're still trying to figure out out now. >> there's your dad right there. there's your dad. would you please -- >> i really do want to thank everybody for the support and prayers. it really does mean a lot. you know, we just want everybody

to stay as strong as we're trying to. please don't let this happen to your child. >> not only do we learn that mommy handed over her 5-year-old little girl shaniya to a convicted felon, according to police, we also learned that department family services had been to the home on several occasions, but nobody bothered to tell daddy. he's been gone about five weeks at the time of the kidnap, leaving his daughter at the home to allow the mother a second chance at being mom. she takes the child out of school. red flags everywhere. we are taking your calls live. let's unleash the lawyers. joining me out of l.a., gloria alred, renee rock well, veteran attorney and out of the new york

jurisdiction, alan rip ka. weigh in gloria. >> it's interesting. first of all, why did not the child protection services notify the father. what is the policy when one parent is being investigated. they have a privacy policy, but should it extend to the other parent? i don't think so. >> let me see gloria, two words, they are sorry. they didn't do their jobs. come on. when this child is exposed to that type of environment and you don't tell the father, you drop the ball. do you think, renee, if that father knew what was going on, he would let the little girl stay there? >> dss was actually investigating problems with the 7-year-old son. so, i don't think dss knew the little girl was in the house,

nancy. >> put rockwell up. renee, you and i have both handled cases that touched on defacts. you know one of the first questions they ask is how many children do you have. one of the first questions. >> nancy, the father of this child cannot beat himselves up. >> nobody asked him to. it's not his fault. >> he's upset about it and tried to do the right thing. it's down to resources. dss -- >> put her up. okay, did you hear that ripka. renee says it's resources. i think somebody didn't bother to pick up the phone and do their job. what about it ripka? >> at the end of the day, if the father thought the mother was on drugs or involved in drugs, he would not have given her another opportunity. she doesn't sound like she's on drugs nor does the way she appears on the tape.

>> is that supposed to convince me of something that she didn't sound stoned out of her gourd when she called 911. it was a planned phone call. she kept it together for the three minutes she was on the phone call. >> there's no history of drug abuse. >> correction. back to you malina schiavo. isn't it true, we have been told drugs were sold out of the home and drug paraphernalia was found in the home. >> that is all correct, nancy. >> okay. we are taking your calls live. phyllis in tennessee. what's your question, dear? >> caller: it's so nice to talk to you. >> like wise. >> caller: her dad didn't know that trash had taken his

daughter out of school. why didn't the school contact him? around here, if our kid is out of school and we don't give a reason, they call us. >> phyllis, you are so right.

we have talked about social services. i feel, if they knew or are aware of this case, a phone call saying that this was the type of environment. i don't know the whole case with

shaniya's mother and social services at this time. but, if they would have known, they should have contacted me. >> tonight, we learn shaniya's father blaming himself for her death. to jeff gardere, author of "love prescription" why is the father blaming himself? >> well, hees blaming himself because he felt he gave the mother a chance to get herself together and perhaps it was the wrong judgment call on his part. so, i can understand where he's coming from, but he should not be blaming himself. >> isn't that common that the survivor, the loved ones always feel like there's something they should have or could have done. he had no idea his wife has a drug debt, allegedly. he didn't know that. he's going to be blaming himself

for a long time. my message is do not blame yourself. come together with your family and grieve in the proper way. we can all learn from this. >> former chief of police in boca raton, thank you for being with us. i want to ask you about phyllis in tennessee's question. the child was taken out of school for weeks, but nobody contacted the primary guardian. >> that's a problem. it's a problem on several accounts. nobody from the school checking in on the parent and on the child as to why the child was pulled out. secondarily, the father has just as much right to know the condition of the student. being the father of the child, he should have known as well. the system failed on many levels for this child. >> on many, many levels. to dr. oliver, dr. oliver, they are telling me tonight that they

haven't finished the autopsy. that's complete bs. it does not take three days to do an autopsy. it doesn't. maybe they are waiting on toxicology reports. why would they say that? they don't want to release the outcome yet? >> that's correct. it takes two hours to do an autopsy. they don't want to release the autopsy results because it interferes with the evidence gathering at this time.

you are charged with felony child abuse. do you understand that? human trafficking, ma'am, is a class c felony. it is punishable by 261 months in prison. do you understand that? >> no further charges will be forthcoming until the jurisdiction has been determined. >> north carolina prosecutors

aren't filing any other charges against the mother, not yet, at least. she's charged with human trafficking and child prostitution. a man caught carrying the child is facing kidnapping charges. they said more charges will follow. >> they did say they feel they have the two main key players in shaniya's disappearance behind bars now. >> i know you have seen the mom in court. you have seen the video of that guy and mario mcneill with her. you guys knew antoinette. how can she just hand the baby over, byron? >> it's something that's hard to believe a mother would hand her child over to a complete -- i don't know. i don't know. she was real giggling.

she would not go to any stranger, no male at all. she was real giggly and always laughing. once you get her talking, she would not be quiet. she would talk you to death. she would take every female, my girlfriend to female friends that come over. aunts. try to do make up with them. show them all her toys. she was always laughing. you could never see a frown on her face. >> we are awaiting autopsy results tonight. that tiny body is still at the morgue. we are taking your calls live. sonia, oklahoma. hi. >> caller: hi, nancy. thanks for taking my call. >> thank you for calling in. >> caller: i'm curious about the custody agreement. if the father had sole custody, can he be charged for leaving

the child with the mom. >> no. there was no formal custody between the two. i think it was between the two of them and their agreements together. >> what about it gurnal scott. >> we know of no formal custody agreement. it seems to be something the two of them figured out. he trusted her and said i'm going to let my daughter stay with you. >> bottom line, gurnal, true. she may be alive today, she would be alive if he hasn't left her there. that's true. you can't blame him for the criminal act of the mother and mcneill, the doper, the convicted felon. you can't blame him for what they did. he shouldn't have left her there, but he did not murder the child.

there's no doubt in our minds about that. susan in missouri. >> caller: hi, nancy. my question is regarding the school. we discussed school, the child was not in school. >> right. >> caller: my question is, was anybody from shaniya's family on dad's side calling or seeing her, contacting her within this five-week period, if the mother was so drugged out all the time? >> what about it? what do we know? >> we have been hearing the aunt would take her on the weekends o occasionally during the five weeks. >> when you say the aunt, you mean the biofather's sister who we saw speaking earlier. yeah, she took her often. >> there were allegations while shaniya was in the home, there were burns she suffered. the father denies that.

she suffered from eczema. it appeared to be burns, but was not burns. >> to cocoa in alabama. hi. >> caller: i want to tell you i love you so, so much. i have been trying for so, so long to get ahold of you. thank you for being an advocate for the holloway case and caylee anthony and all the cases you do. after today, i worked at a telephone company for almost ten years. i'm going back to school and i started out in criminal justice and i want to be a prosecutor like you. the mom, how come they haven't filed murder charges on the mom? >> cocoa in virginia. number one, other than being called mommy, that's one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me, what you just said. but, why are they waiting? i think they are waiting to

identify the body. i think they are going to come out with a formal announcement that this is her body and a formal announcement of cause of death. in that indictment, let's go to the lawyers. there may be other charges they are waiting on gloria allred such as a sex kit, rape kit c e comparing dna back to mcneill, if so, there's rape charged and the mother would be complicit in that, if those charges are handed down. >> depending on where the evidence leads. we don't know what evidence they have. could we stop calling it sexual servitude and call it what it should be called, sexual slavery. there are a lot of children sold into it. it's shocking we don't hear more about it.

we'll have to find out what the evidence is. >> liz, let's put the stats up about sex slavery among children. i don't mean in some other country. i don't mean bankok or far, far away, a place you may never have been. i'm talking here in america where this little child was going to be used before she was murdered. i want to go to renee rockwell and alan ripka. why the delay in the murder charges, renee? >> my understanding is they are trying to decide where the murder actually took place. they need to hurry up. both individuals have bonds. if they make bond, they are out of there. >> i'm sick about that. one has a $50,000 translation $5,000, the other has a $100,000 translation $10,000.

if she was selling her daughter for a drug debt -- >> if somebody goes and makes a promise, he's out of there. >> you are right, renee. i think the bond is way, way too low. i don't know what that judge was thinking. another reason they may be waiting on the formal charge is because they may be researching aggravating circumstances. they are not afraid of the death penalty in north carolina. >> they certainly are not. if they determine the baby was kidnapped from their house, she won't be charged for murder. the tape did not include the mother. she may not be charged with that at all. >> put ripka up. alan. >> yes. >> we already know the entire 911 call was a fake. so, why are you saying -- i want to you to look in the camera,

all right. you are speaking to your friends, your colleagues. people who don't know you. why would you say she doesn't know what's happening? >> there's no evidence she knew anyone was going to be murdered. >> it doesn't matter. if she handed that child over for child prostitution and the child ended up dead, it's a felony murder. a death occurred in the commission of a felony. >> if, in fact, it's proven, you are right. you have to prove she was handing the child over. >> what do we know that suggests the mother knew? >> what we are seeing is, with the 911 call, the mother may have faked that 911 call. we don't know that for sure, yet. police are researching that. it's tied up in the investigation. we don't know who is in charge. we have to find out what people know to get to the truth of that.

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9-year-old elizabethalton was brutally murdered feet from her house. the alleged killer, a 15-year-old who has just been charged as an adult with first degree murder. >> the fact this juvenile didn't call in and say there was an accident, it was worse than that. >> a 15-year-old girl is the murder suspect? not just murder, premeditated malice murder one suspect. this was planned. >> now facing life in prison without parole for allegedly strangling and stabbing

elizabeth alton. her body found in a nearby wooded area. >> she lists her hobbies including cutting and killing people. it contains disturbing video showing the teen girl giving herself shocks from an electrified fence on purpose. >> a police officer testified in court that she confessed to killing elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. >> she actually told the police that was her motive? she wanted to know what it felt like to kill somebody? tonight, we are learning there's evidence that she lured the little girl. a little 9-year-old girl into the woods that she dug a shallow grave several days before in anticipation of murdering this little girl. you are seeing photos that were obtained up to today. the perpetrator, a 15-year-old

girl is a juvenile. we haven't been able to show you her face. here she is in all her splendor and glory. in court today, lad, what happened in court? >> 8:00 in the morning, there was a hearing. she came in shackled in an orange jump suit. it was to decide if she would be better served in a juvenile or adult court. the judge said she will be tried as an adult. she was arrested by the sheriff and taken and reprocessed. a lot of bomb sells came out in the court proceedings. one is the highway patrol investigator that five days before the murder, on a friday before school was out, she went into the woods and dug two graves.

she went back to school three days before the night of the alleged murder. also, we learn thad the highway patrol investigator said she told him she did the murder because she wanted to know what it felt like. >> okay. motive evidence out the ying-yang. we have been on the story. three causes of death. one wasn't enough? >> in the indictment, she's charged with first degree murder in an armed criminal action. they allege that she strangled, stabbed and cut the little girls throat. >> okay. ripka, -- what is the evidence suggesting she lured the little girl out to the woods to kill her. isn't it true her family was

concerned she spent so much time in the woods. >> that's right, nancy. we have heard from neighbors in the community close by that observed, first of all, that the two young girls, the 15-year-old and the 9-year-old -- >> hold on. i want the viewers to know you are seeing the video of a girl -- she, herself posted it on youtube or myspace e lek tricuting herself and her brothers on an electric fence. >> neighbored said the 15-year-old is quite thin. quite small. there's no way, according to their observations she could have dragged a dead body of a 9-year-old, about 60 pounds 300 or 400 yards into the woods. the theory is that the 9-year-old was lured by her.

>> to dr. howard oliver, dr. oliver, stabbed, strangled, throat cut. why? why three causes of death? can you tell which is the actual cause of death? >> not all wounds are deadly. the autopsy will tell which was deadly. maybe all three were deadly. apparently, she wasn't successful with killing with one or two methods and had to revert to the third method to finish the little girl off. >> elizabeth alton, 8 years old. on her way home from a play date. the play date's older sister is the 15-year-old now charged in her brutal murder. unleash the lawyers. gloria allreed, alan rip cal. she's be treated as an adult.

there's a chance she can get out in six years. once there's a plea or conviction, the judge will determine whether she will stay in juvenile or be treated as an adult in the adult penal system. it's dual jurisdiction. what do you think of that? she could walk in six years? >> that's right. she could walk at age 21. as an adult, life in prison without the possibility of parole. my sense of it is it's highly likely she'll be treated as an adult. >> renee, alan. first to you, renee. let me guess, she's crazy, right? >> what else is there? >> why do you say that, renee? why do you say it like that? when there's nothing else to say, you say insanity. >> she's not going to be able to

use anything else like self-defense. you have a situation now that she spilled the beans. she talked about two graves, a graves she dug five days in advance. that's premeditation. the fact that she's certified to be tried as an adult. she's facing the possibility of serving her life in jail. >> you can get life without parole if you're a juvenile at the time of committing the offense. what is your best defense? i shudder to think who is going to be in the second grave she dug. >> that statement will be thrown out. the officer should haven't took it because she was a minor. they will not have corroborating evidence. >> do you have any idea if

anybody was with her at the time of the statement? a lawyer, an adult? >> i don't know. assuming there was no guardian then this officer violated her rights. happy 86th to florida friend claire. she loves hln, movies, and playing cards with the girls. happy birthday, beautiful, beautiful claire.

are they rolling? >> yes. >> okay, i'm about to grab this electric fence with my hand. >> are you kidding? >> oh, my god. okay. ow. [ laughter ] >> yeah, that's what all normal 15-year-old girls do in their spare time, shock themselves with an electric fence and post

it on youtube. along with their little brothers. out to the lines. amy in pennsylvania. hi. >> caller: hi, how are you? i'm a little bit curious how we haven't heard any responsibility to the 15-year-old's parents. it seems there are probably attorneys there hush hushing something. i have three teenage boys, if they get detention, i want to know what is going on in their life. >> good question. what do we know about her home situation? >> we don't know much about her parents. her grandmother has been the legal guardian since 2001. >> my grandmother raised me, too. if anyone is casting aspersions

on a grandmother raising you, that's no good. will it come up at trail? >> i don't think so. it's about her sporresponsibili. >> i think i'm going to have a family member on the stand discussing what she's been like her entire life. >> when will this go trial? >> december 7th is the next court date. that a status hearing. let's stop and remember, jonathan welch. wanted to be in the army since he was six. loved music. leaving behind parents ben and gina. a brother and a sister. jonathan welch, american hero. thanks to our guests and you to for being with us. see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp eastern. and until then, good night,

friend. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com tonight on"the joy behar show" anger and shock over new mammogram guide lines. who are the boobs that made up this rule? then the michael jackson saga takes another sad turn. the father of the buy that acruised him of child molestation takes his own life.

and vary palin is talking about her book. %%%%%%%%%

tonight on "the joy behar show" sarah palin's rogue tour rolls on as she tries to sell her book by trash talking her fellow americans. the 9/11 trils being held in new york city. bad idea, good idea? she went there the land down under to the top of the music world. after battle with breast cancer, she's here. the one, the only, olivia newton-john. all this and more starting right now.

shocking new guidelines for breast cancer screening were released this week which have the entire medical world talking. among the recommendations with no mammograms or self-breast exams before 50. joins me are dr. marie savard an internist and the lovely and kalted olivia newton-john, herself a survivor. welcome. you were in your 40s when you were diagnosed. >> yes. >> how did you find it? >> i found it myself. i'm so up in arms. i found nit a self-exam. why not advocate that. if you find something that is to the right, you get it checked out, which is what i did. >> we're going get to that with the doctor. did you follow it up with a mammogram? >> the mammogram was negative.

that's unusual. i don't say that to scare people. i felt there was something wrong intingtively. he did a needle biopsy that was also negative. i still didn't feel it was right. i had lumps before, i wasn't feeling my best. he did a surgical biopsy and found the cancer. what changes this all of a sudden? women in their 40s have always been told to get them. >> sadly, i don't think anything changed. i think the panel got together, looked at the numbers, crunched the numbers, and decided to weigh women's lives versus side effects, inconvenience, side effects, radiation. not much new has happened. if anything the mammogram has gotten better. the ultra sound probably helped

you be diagnosed. there's lots of things out there. to say to women, the leading cause of cancer death in women aged 40 to a rks to say don't do anything. that's crazy. >> mammograms find 1 in 2,000? >> they save one out of almost 2,000 women's lives. that's a lot of live ifs you multiply it. >> that's a lot of people. they recommend stop teaching women under 50rks which is what you were saying, to self-examine their breasts. why is that? >> i'm so insulted and outrage by the thought. most women trust just as you did, they feel something is wrong. that gets them, you examine them, get the mammogram. the mammogram is not perfect. if it's not, you keep being the squeaky wheel. you get the ultrasound and the

biopsy. >> why do you think they're saying this? >> i don't know. many of my friends have found their cancer by self-exam. the women that go and find out it's nothing, they're thrilled that it's nothing. >> what if they don't find anything? >> i can't imagine that. >> is it not kous effective? is there money involved? >> what money could be involved in a woman knowing her body. they said the doctors breast exam, really, there's no evidence that that really works. it's lewd krouz to think a doctor will not lay on hands. >> do we ignore it. >> the american cancer society is not going along with it. >> i think a lot of groups are quite alarmd. women will hear this message and think, i'm not going to get the mammogram. they're going to feel the lump

and say, what's the point of going to the doctors they're not going to detect anything. >> i think we have to keep pushing self-examination. i'm worried about the poorer women that can't get it covered. i have a feeling that's where it's leading. >> what happens to women over 50 who want an annual mammogram? they want women over 50 to have them every two years. if you want one every year, will the insurance not pay for it? >> our secretary of health came out today and said we're not going to change anything. she understands the alarm. right now, we're not changing anything. >> private insurers are required by law to pay for mammograms in women over 40 except the state of utah. don't mormons get breast cancer?

>> of course they do. early diagnosis, early treatment means -- >> early diagnosis is key. >> the earlier you dig nose, the less treatment, the better results. >> i was in germany and vienna. i was entrusting my self-breast examination tool to help you find lumps more easily. the women in germany are having trouble getting ma'am grams. i heard that the study is based on the european union. we're going back wards, not forwards. >> in england, they don't start until after 50. >> they've been worried about cost containment for a long time. a lot of services have not been given to the degree that we would go along with in this

country. understand limitationings of the mammogram. ask for a digital mammogram. if you have lumpy breasts, ask if you can get the digital. >> they're saying don't check yourself in the shower. >> that doesn't make sense. >> let's say this all goes through. let's say you happen to be checking krurs. or maybe somebody else finds it, you should be so lucky. >> of course, men do find lumps. >> are you supposed to, say oh, i didn't find it, because i'm not supposed to find it? >> are you supposed to ignore it. >> they say be aware. i've heard experts say women should be aware of their bodies and report anything. what message is this? >> i feel like there's a war against women in health. there's a stupac amendment that will deny women insurance to get an abortion if they need it.

they need a rider on their private insurance. as if you can plan to get a private abortion. now there's this that will curtail the test for women. >> there was a lot of sonses. i looked oi many website, the abc website. they said, what about men's health? >> do you know that viagra is paid by insurance? >> i know man used my self-examination and found it. he was in his 30s. it happens to men also. >> we can't, as you said, we can't go back wards. have better technology. women between the ages of 40 and 50 cannot have nothing. >> what is your final work to women watching? >> trust your instincts, examine your breasts. be the squeaky wheel.

>> and don't let this legislation go through. >> be in control of your own health. a lump is a lump is a lump. if it's unusual. >> most lumps are benign. >> if you know that, you should be ware of what is normal for you. >> women know when there's something different. >> it was interesting that you thu. thanks very much. olivia is going stay with us. more with olympia newton-john when we come back.

♪ come and behold him born the king of angels ♪ ♪ oh come let us adore him oh come let us adore him ♪ ♪ oh come let us adore him >> i'm back with olivia newton-john. a woman that has been mellow, honestly in love, and greased. not necessarily in that order. let's talk about the new special. it features ice skaters and cancer survivors. >> it's on thanksgiving day after the big football match. a perfect time to catch people. an inspiring show, ice skating

and music. scott hamilton, dorothy hammill, a breast cancer survivor. scott survived cancer twice. people going through cancer, cancer care givers and their families. hope, and chance to give them advice. i sing a song that david toster and i wrote with a group of young children called "purple songs can fly" and they're a group of children that have been through cancer themselves and we wrote the song. dorothy hammill is skating through it. >> she had cancer too? >> she did. >> this one says olivia was my make a wish in 1993. i had a stage 3-b nonhodgekins

limphoma. >> you walked the great wall for cancer. >> i did. we invited olympians and celebrities to join me on the walk. we had great sponsors. it was an incredible experience. it was like the cancer journey. it was difficult, inspiring. we got through it. it was three weeks of tough walking. have you been there? >> i haven't. i was rael reading -- you know the long march of china. they carried mao tse tung. they carried him. what type of a leader is that.

>> i'm not surprised. it's tough. >> let's talk about "grease" a little bit. kids love that movie. why is it popular? >> i don't know. i talk to kids all the time that liked it. the '50s is great time. >> you ever watch "madmen "? >> i have. >> everybody smoked and gave themselves diseases. >> i didn't go to american school. it was fun for me. >> you were in australia. did you have a crush on john travolta when you were filming? >> i'm sure. i'm sure, yeah. >> you did. >> i did. >> have you seen him since his family tragedy.

>> we've been in touch. i send my love to him. it's a sensitive subject. >> after "grease" you became a big star. >> it pushed me to another category. >> you were one of the few that looked like a teenager, by the way. >> it was weird, because i was 29 when i made the movie. >> you looked like a kid. some of them looked like they were post menopausal. >> i asked to do a scene test with john to make sure i could pull it off. >> i assume your life changed. did you like the attention? >> it wasn't like overnight success. i had been working for a long time. i had success in music and stuff. it was a much bigger plateau after that. i managed to balance my life.

had horses, family, my friends. >> is it hard on the kids these days, britney and lindsay? are they having a harder time? >> i think so. they don't have chance to grow up and mature in private. we didn't have the paparazzi. on occasion they would catch you in a baiting suit on beach. >> they like it too. they object to it and they like it. it's a double-edged sword that pat ra paparazzi thing. let me ask you about the christmas cd. >> it's tra dshl christmas carols and some new ones. i do some with barry manilow and

michael mcdonald. >> oh, i love him. let me give you twitter questions. olivia has a big gay following. why does she think that is? >> they're loyal. amazingly loyal fans. i did a movie called "sorded lives" that they liked a lot. and a series too. >> they like certain people. >> i'm curious about your hyphenated name. sit a combination of your mother and father? >> it was a combination of my father's parents. he was from wales and his last name was john. my grand father was john and my grand mother was newton.

>> does olivia newton-john have tidbits that no one else nose that happened in the filming of "grease "? >> and my lips are sealed. >> wardrobe malfunctions. >> i had to be stitched into the black pants awore. they were old when i got them because we filmed in the '70s and the pants were from the '50s. they were old when we got them and the zipper had gone. i didn't drink anything all day. >> so the '50s pants were tighter. >> they were made of shark skin. it was amazing. it was like a thick lycra. >> you're going stick around. on live va ya tells us how she met her husband in the rain forest. stick around with us. i want to meet your husband.

♪ you better shape up because i need a man and my heart is set on you ♪ ♪ you better sap up you better understand ♪ ♪ to my heart i must be true

♪ let's get physical physical i want to get physical let's get into physical let me hear your body talk your body talk ♪ ♪ let me hear your body talk >> oh, yeah, baby. i'm back with olivia newton-john and the man she's hopelessly devoted to. john easterling. welcome to the show. >> thank you. >> you're a gorgeous couple. >> we fell in love in the amazon but we knew etch other for 17

years before that. did you have a best man or a sherpa. >> we had a man do the services at an extraordinary archaeological site. in p rks ru. >> it must have been beautiful. >> it was us and musicians. >> you kept your relationship secret from the family. >> no, not the relationship, just the wedding. we were together a year when we got married. >> you were dating. i don't get that. i'm dating a guy for 27 years. how long were you dating, actually? doing the -- the dirty. how long? >> a year. >> dating for a year. >> we knew each other for 17 years as friends. i met him many, many years ago. a few years after i knew him,

this is stully interesting. my dog had puppies and skron had met my dog, liked my dog. i shipd a puppy to him in florida. 2 the 1/2 years ago, i did a show in florida, i invisited him to come with his girlfriend and he brought the dog. >> don't call her a dog. >> i remembered her. hearing her sing, the new cd, the grace and gratitude, sit so healing. her whole life is about healing. i wanted to introduce her to some of the healers i met over the years. i invited her to go to peru. we fell in love on day two. that was it. >> do you share the belief in

ufos the two of you? i read that? >> that is so funny. >> no. it was very funny. i believe there are unidentified flaying objects. i thought i saw one once. i don't though how that got so out of control. >> what is this? >> that's damu. >> zamu. >> i've been going to the amazon looking for treasure. i went in the '70s looking for lost cities of gold. over the keers, i found enough treasure to keep the trail going. it's evolved to botanicals. the rain forest is extraordinary. >> i'll put it on ice and drink it later. thank you for coming by. >> good to see you. >> olivia's special airs on

thanksgiving day. .

well, my favorite gifrl, sarah palin kicked off her rogue book tour in grand rapids michigan. she's refusing to visit major cities on the tour. yesterday she told rush limbaugh she's not trying to reach the liberal elites, just everyday hardworking americans. with me to discuss is naomi kline, a contributor to going rouge. out this week. naomi -- welcome, ladies to the

show. she's saying that hardworking americans don't live in the cities. is that the implication here? >> i think that's pretty much it. >> doesn't that eliminate 100 million people? >> yeah, but it's typical campaign rhetoric. this book tour is like a presidential campaign. she teams to be running for president of nothing. i think she's got chance to win. >> let's listen to what she said when barbara walters asked her about obama. >> on a scale of one to ten, ten being the best, where do you rate barack obama? >> a four. a four. there are a lot of decisions being made that i am not in pressed with. >> what would you do about unemployment if you were president? >> i would cut taxes and let more small businesses keep what they earn and reinvest and hire

more people. not punishing them by forcing health care reform down their troets, forcing an energy policy down their throats that will ultimately tax them more and cost them more to stay in business. those are back-asswards ways of trying to fix the economy. >> how is giving poor pooem health care shoving something down their throats and punishing them? where does she get the requesteds from? >> not from the reality that you and i live in. i think if she were this barack obama's position and facing the problems he is, she would resign? she doesn't seem up to faces the challenges of a relatively easy to run state with a small population. i don't think she's in a place to judge barack obama. >> she's a quitter. >> she is. all of her policies are about

the fact she doesn't believe in governor. she doesn't want regulations for the health care crisis. her governor philosophy is do nothing and get out of the way. she quit her job in government. which, you know, as long as she doesn't run again, this is a woman running by her ideals. >> i don't think she will. i think she's running for president of facebook. which is close to nothing. i think she'll probably win. i can't think that anyone that writes a become like she did is serious about running for office or governing. >> she ruled out glenn beck as a running mate? >> it's like the rocky and bullwinkle ticket. who would work for someone like

sarah palin who has written a book bashing staffers. i think it's really unrealist toik expect her to command any loyalty in a political class. she may have real america on her side. >> one of the things that is interesting. i'm not interested in the elites, i'm interested in real americans. we want to reregulate and cut taxes. that's what crashed the global economy. tax cuts, tax cuts, tax cuts andlet create a free for all on wall street. they're not original ideas. they do help some americans. the elites. the elites of the elites. they benefit when you cut their taxes and take away regulations. that's how you make a lot of money on wall street. this is an old trick. bush used it as well. playing the pop list card. serving the top 1%. >> it gaines ground quickly.

>> that rhetoric does. >> i think obama shares some of the responsibility for that. people in the country are angry, they feel neglected. i don't think she would have quite as strong a base as she seems to have right now as some of the proms if some of the promises that obama made on the campaign trail had been acted on more quickly. >> some of the way she's been covered feeding into the notion that there is an elitist agenda against her. i think we have to be careful about that. there's a lot about her to make fun of. i think you have to be careful, it's her policies that are not serious. >> it offends me as a liberal person. i grew up in a working class family, my father was a truck driver. i went to all city universities. i'm a liberal. does that make me an elitist?

glenn beck makes a ga zillion dollars a year. rush limbaugh does. >> she is making money from twitter. the world seems to have to react for this. >> we have to take responsibility. i hope after this week we can stop talking about her. what gives her policy -- >> absolutely not. that's deal breaker stopping to talk about her. >> as long as we talk about her she has the pulpit to preach from. she said the thing about death panels, it resonates with a few people. we covered it. >> it should have been ignored. >> i think wes have to be careful about the way we cover her. a part of her resonates with people strongly. she has a compelling story. >> it's the reality tv drama of taking somebody out of their natural habitat. take city kids to the jungle.

>> candidate swap. >> or take urban people to the country. it's that count mouse goes to the big city, and so that's the drama that she's playing on. >> how much of her appeal is her looks, do you think? >> whoa. she's a very attractive woman. you can't deny that. >> she's pretty. if she was a -- as we say in the neighborhood. you know what that means? an ugly face. she would not have any traction in any opinion. that's because she's pretty. >> it's as if she was created in the laboratory in the basement of heritage foundation. we have a gun-toting barbie governor. then she started malfunctioning. now she won't go away.

>> now she's stepford wife. she's pretty. i think that's why a largely male dominated gop embraced her. if she was a liberal, would that matter? the "newsweek" coverage doesn't help us. i want to criticize her because she has stupid policies and makes idiotic proposals. >> it's a distraction. >> we're not being con descending to her because she's a pretty girl. we think less of her because of her ideas. >> i think men see her in a certain way. >> let's be true here. >> a liberal man from hollywood said the reason people are attracted to her is because she would watch the game with you and cook you dinner afterwards.

>> and go hunt and kill the moose, too. naomi and ana marie, thank you. are terror trials in new york a good idea? we'll talk about it next.

can you understand why it is offensive to some for this terrorist to get all the legal privileges of an american citizen? >> i don't think it will be offensive at all when he's convicted and the death pelt is applied to him. >> president obama was on the "today" show defending the

attorney general's decision to put the 9/11 terrorists on trial in new york. i want full transparency. joining ne is former new york governor george pataki. the president seems certain that the guy will be convicted and probably executed. >> i certainly hope so. there's though question dm my mind that he deserves the death penalty. >> we all feel that way. we would like to see an open court. >> the argument i've heard, it's one of the worst decisions i've seen made by an administration if a long time is that we're a nation that is guided by the rule of law and we're going to obey the rule of law. i totally agree with that. since our earliest days, part of the legal system has been military tribunals.

khalid sheikh mohammed plotted and planned and it resulted in the deaths of thousands of american citizens. he'll have the right to know who r our witnesses are, sources of information are, what our techniques are. when you give terrorists this information, it gets to al qaeda very quickly. it has in the past. i fear it will here as well. >> isn't there a different between a military tribunal and a military court. mostly war criminals are charged in a military tribunal. when they attacked there was no war? >> i think we've been in a war against islamic extremists since

the 1993 attack on the towers. we had the bombing on the embassy, the bombing of the "cole" and then the attacks on 9/11. we're going to take him, because he blew up people in the united states and give them a trial, but the other terrorists we caught overseas, we're going try them in military tribunals. i don't understand the logic of it. >> mayor bloomberg says that the city can safely hold the trial. the police do an incredible job. >> my concern is more about what it does to our national security as opposed to our personal security as a new yorker. we have seen, we tried this once before when we captured the

blind sheik. >> can't we do something about those laex? why can't he be in solitary confinement without blackberry? >> he had a lawyer that lied to to prosecutors who went and told terrorist organizations in egypt the information that had been obtained. we should not be revealing this information to the terrorists in the first place. there's no guarantee that it won't get out there. we have a perfectly legitimate system, military tribunals, that we treat khalid sheikh mohammed like he's an american citizen. there's though legal only

occasion and i don't think a moral obligation to try him in the criminal justice system. >> when we talk to the congressman, ooimt going ask why we can't have a military tribunal. most people don't get it exactly. i'm one of them. >> i understand. >> now i would like to turn to congressman weiner from new york. why shouldn't he be tried as a a war criminal? >> i think it's most appropriate the flats he murdered people he should come back to face justice. new yorkers should sit in judgment on this guy. that's the way we do justice in the country. the notion that we should be scared of frightened our cower

under our desks, that's baloney. >> the only reason people want nit new york is because of the transparns si? >> it's the easiest thing to do. we have a criminal justice system that handles tough cases all the time. we have a way of collecting evidence, executing trials. we have to be proud of that. the worst criminal justice if the worldings except compared to every other country. for eight years, we have not had anything resembling closure. now we're hearing, if we hold him for another three or four years, we can figure it out. we know how to do it. we're ready to do it. i think i can find 12 jurors who will put this guy to death. >> how can you get the jurors?

>> i have no concern about that. if the guy did the crime, he's confessed he did it, if there's information out there that he did it, i have no problem the that. >> i worry about them coming up with mitigating circumstances. the fact that he was water boarded 183 times. we could lose the case. >> i wouldn't be concerned about the other things. the things that this guy has said without any water boarding at all. i doubt that any evidence they collected without extraordinary measures would not be introduced into the trial. we do these cases all the time. and you know what? bad guys go to jail. in this case, a bad guy is going

to get put to death. i see no reason to change that. the alternative we have had at our disposal for eight years. we haven't done it yet. >> what about the fact that you're giving the guy a platform for his followers? i mean, all that -- all of the propaganda is going to come out and everybody around the world is going to hear it. >> you know, we heard that about moussaoui. no doubt about it having a transparent case you let crazy people say crazy things. ultimately we want justice and justice is putting this guy to death. what is a bigger problem that and governor pataki and others saying we're too scared if we have the trial, they're going to hurt us if we have the trial, we can't protect our city if we have the trial. that's the propaganda stuff that bothers me. i trust our police department, our judges and jury to be able to get this done.

for eight years we've heard excuses and finally will get justice. >> all right. i hope it's not a circus like the o.j. trial was. i don't think i could stand to see marcia clark again. ha-ha. kidding, kidding, congressman. >> i hear you. i hear you. >> thank you very much. we'll be back in a minute.

it's been five months since michael jackson died yet the web of mystery surrounding his past is still growing. the latest evan chandler father of the boy who first accused jackson of child molestation? 1983 killed himself in his jersey city apartment. joining me to discuss this is roger ready forman who writes the showbiz 41 column. welcome. >> hi. >> this guy chandler, they got a $20 million settlement to not press charges against michael jackson. is that what happened. >> well, the kid got, this is back in 1994. >> yeah. >> the son got $20 million put

in trust. >> how old was the boy in 1993 -- or 4. >> he was 13. then the father who just died got 1.5 million dollars and his ex/wife got 1.5 million dollars and i believe her -- at that time, her husband, her, she was married to someone else he also got $1.5 million dollars as part of settlement. >> why did they get paid off. >> everybody got paid off to keep quiet and never been actually proven what happened. part of it was michael panicked and his lawyers panicked because there was some element of truth to what was going on. >> like what, what was true. >> michael was having a much too close relationship -- michael then in his 30s and having this very close relationship with this young boy. >> uh-huh. >> he was sleeping in his room. >> right. i remember. >> he was sleeping at the kid's house then he was sleeping at each other's house in each other's beds. >> michael insisted it was all

nnts. >> how innocent could it be. >> it didn't look right. >> it didn't look right. there was some element of what was going on there. then what happened after this was over a great article in "gq" by a journalist named mary fisher, she went back and had proof evan chandler this man who just committed suicide and the current husband of his wife then. >> yeah. >> the step-father. >> yeah. >> had conspired to create this situation and that they actually drugged the kid in the dentist's office and got him to say things that weren't true about michael. >> oh. >> so, there was actually a defense for michael jackson at one point that has been used ever since by the jackson fans, something as sort of a template for them that they use to defend michael. >> i see. so, is it possible that this dentist just killed himself he felt guilty about all that. >>? >> it's very possible. >> were you he also was very ill. >> well, he was ill. >> >> yeah but i think it's not a coincidence that michael jackson died four months ago,

that the movie is out and the movie has made $200 million, it's everywhere and this point has probably been driven home that what the chandlers started in 1993 snowballed to the point that it killed michael jackson because michael's problems really began with that incident. that's where everything really start -- went out of control. >> oh, i don't know about that. all his problems? his problems started in his childhood, according to what i've read. >> well, those problems. >> yeah. oh. >> what i'm saying his legal problems, financial problems, the thing began like it was just a snowball that kept getting bigger and bigger. >> i see. >> and started with the chandlers. so, it's interesting that michael has died, that all these things have happened and now very strangely that evan chandler has committed suicide. >> do you think we'll ever find out the total truth about all that. >> yeah, i do think we will find out. >> who is going to it? >> one dha kid will fess up. he's 29 now. what's interesting he had a falling-out with his father completely and is back with his

mother who is sort of a nice lady. >> he might have been depressed or whatever. thanks, roger. thanks for watching. good night, everybody.

shaniya's favorite blanket found discarded, covered in feces in the neighbor's trash. after graining surveillance video surfaces of a 29-year-old man, carrying the child in a local hotel room, the search for

baby shaniya comes to an end. police find her little body hidden in dense woods. the man in the video, mario mcneill, confesses to taking shaniya to the hotel but then clams up. in a heart wrenching and disgusting twist, shaniya's own mother behind bars for selling the little girl for sex. bombshell tonight. was 5-year-old shaniya's life nothing more than a payment on a drug debt? reports emerge mommy owed mcneill money and speaking of mcneill, why was he walking free, able to take the little girl in the first place? he has a rap sheet a mile long, including shooting several people, one in the head and neck, dope, of course, and running over a cop. why wasn't he in maximum security instead of checking into a hotel with a 5-year-old

girl? and tonight, we confirm another twist. after repeat inspections of mommy's house by dfcs, no one bothered to tell shaniya's dad. he had no idea. why did mommy pull the 5 qulld out of school in october? as soon as daddy leaves town? red flags everywhere. tonight, as police hint more charges to come, there really are no words to describe this mother. she doesn't even deserve the compliment of mother. her and her cohorts animalistic behavior screams out for the north carolina death penalty. at this hour, as that tiny body still sits in a cold morgue, we want justice for shaniya. >> we remember driving through here earlier and smelling

something pretty nasty so we came back to check it and sure enough there were dear carcasses and trash and some of the officers from the virgin islands went through here. >> positive i.d. on the child's body found dumped on the side of the highway. more horrific charges expected any time now. >> you did engage in human trafficking with a child as the victim. knowingly provide shaniya davis with the intent that she be held in sexual servitude. do you understand that charge? >> yes. >> have they told anybody what was the cause of death, byron?

>> they actually -- i haven't heard anything. i don't think my father has either. we're not really sure too much yet. we're still trying to figure it out now. so -- >> there is your dad right there. >> yes, ma'am. >> there is your dad. would you pliz -- >> i really do want to thank everybody for the support and prayers. it really does mean a lot. you know, we just want everybody to stay as strong as we're trying to. i know it's hard, but for the mothers out there, please don't let this happen to your child. and tonight, live to the heartland. a 9-year-old missouri girl walks home broad daylight from a play date, only about 1,000 feet. never makes it home. the body of 9-year-old elizabeth olten found in a wooded area just houses from her own home. murder suspect in court today. it's a 15-year-old girl. details we learn in court? stunning.

including three causes of death. have you ever had somebody go in and just reach inside you and pull your heart out? that's what it's like. >> breaking news. the 15-year-old girl accused of brutally murdering little 9-year-old elizabeth olten has been certified to stand trial as an adult. now 15-year-old is facing first-degree murder and armed criminal action charges that could send her to prison for life without the possibility of parole. >> the sheriff wants first degree charges. he says it's something that was planned. they have written evidence and they talked with the 15-year-old girl. >> malice or premeditation is formed in the blink of an eye, in the snap of a finger. the time it takes you to raise

the gun and pull the trigger. >> authorities say she strangled and stabbed elizabeth to death, feet from her own home. >> the mindset with the killer is preoccupation seeking harm and rendering the victims into a very helpless state. ♪ >> in court moments ago, she sat shackled and silent as the judge read the charges to a teen not even old enough to vote. a teen who may never see the outside of a jail cell, again. for crimes allegedly committed against a defenseless 9-year-old girl. >> the reality is if this crime is premeditated, she's going to be doing some adult time. good evening, i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. tonight, was 5-year-old shaniya's life nothing more than a payment on a drug debt?

>> the shocking 911 call from shaniya davis' mom. crying over her 5-year-old daughter. the same mom now charged with selling that beautiful little girl as a sex slave. giving her 5-year-old up as a prostitute. >> i kissed her good-bye and told her to be a good girl. she turned back to me and said, i love you aunt carrie. see you later. >> my father recently gave her, antoinette, a chance to give the mother a second chance to raise her daughter. i mean, everybody deserves a second chance, just like a convicted felon. i mean, he deserves a second chance because he could have changed.

>> i ask you to give me and everybody that loved poor shaniya, my little baby, my angel, the strength to continue on. >> straight out to gurnal scott with wptf radio joining us from raleigh, north carolina. gurnal, thank you for being with us. please tell me i'm wrong. reports emerging tonight the life of 5-year-old shaniya was worth nothing more to the mother than payment on a drug debt. >> i hope we can tell you that you're wrong. we do know looking back there is a connection.

antoinette davis and mario mcneill have been together, they hung out together. there may have been a debt that needed to be paid. we are understanding she may have owed him money. you, i, everyone are finding it hard to believe that a little girl's life could be used as payment. we don't want to believe that. >> marlaina sschiavo, our reporter on the story. let's see if we can add two and two together tonight. okay, work with me. number one, we know, according to you and your sources last night that drugs were allegedly sold out of the home, number one. two, we know mario mcneill, the 29-year-old man caught on camera taking the child into a hotel room, had a drug history. he's got a rap sheet as long as the interstate. all right. we know she hands over the baby. according to police, to mcneill to be a child prostitute.

what more do i need to know, marlaina? >> as a result of the drug raid that happened over the summer, they found instruments in the home to manufacture drugs out of her home. we know people were in and out of the home selling drugs. she had dealings with mcneill before shaniya disappeared. you add all that up, with what cops are saying she owed him money, you would have to conclude that possibly she owed him money for drugs. not confirmed. >> that is what sources are telling us tonight. >> to matt zarrell, our producer on the story. matt, let's talk about mcneill for a moment. what is his history? >> it's a mile long. it started in june, 2001. he was arrested for shooting someone in the face, neck, shoulders and arms. >> whoa, whoa, whoa. shooting someone in the face, the neck, the shoulders, the arm? if i'm correct, matt, two other people, that makes three people were injured in that shooting

incident. >> yes, you're right, nancy. now, what happened was he was out waiting on trial. about a year later he was arrested again, this time for drug possession. >> stop, pause. pause, pause. >> did you just say he was out waiting for trial? in other words, a judge let him bond out on a shooting, a multiple shooting, correct? >> yes. all right. go ahead, please. put the rap sheet back up. >> they consolidate the two cases. he pleads to two lesser assault charges and lesser drug charge. he's given 40 months of probation for shooting someone in the face. >> straight probation for shooting somebody in the face and drug charges. all right, but it doesn't end there, does it, matt zarrell? >> no, it doesn't. just a couple months later he violates his probation. he is arrested again for drug possession. he violated his probation. he is sent to prison. he is sent from prison from october 2003 to may 2006.

>> so, this is the man pictured carrying little 5-year-old shaniya in his arms, into a hotel room. thanks, mommy. >> you can see from when mario was carrying her, how shaniya's hair was. in the car, when shaniya had her hair slicked back, to her birthday parties to her halloween costumes. shaniya was well kept with my father. he took very good care of her.

have they told anybody what was the cause of death, byron? >> they actually, i haven't heard anything. i don't think my father has, either. we're not really sure too much yet. we're still trying to figure out that now. >> there's your dad right there. there's your dad. >> yes, ma'am. >> would you please -- >> we really do want to thank everybody for the support and prayers. it really does mean a lot. you know, we just want everybody to stay as strong as we're trying to.

i know it's hard, but for the mothers out there, please don't let this happen to your child. >> not only do we learn that mommy handed over her 5-year-old little girl, shaniya, to a convicted felon, according to police, we also learn that dfcs, department of family and children services had been to the home on several occasions, but nobody bothered to tell daddy. he's been gone about five weeks at the time of the kidnap, leaving his daughter at the home to allow antoinette davis a second chance at being a mom. almost immediately she takes the child out of school. red flags everywhere. we are taking your calls live. let's unleash the lawyers. joining me out of l.a., gloria allred, family law attorney, victim right's advocate. renee rockwell, veteran defense attorney and multiple jurisdictions including atlanta, and out of the new york jurisdiction, defense attorney

alan ripka. weigh in, gloria. >> well, it's really interesting. first of all, why, nancy, did not the child protective services notify the father? what, in fact, is their policy when one parent is being investigated? of course, they have a privacy policy, but should that extend to the other parent? i don't think so. i think they should have notified them. >> let me see gloria, two words, they're sorry. they didn't do their jobs. come on. when this child is exposed to that type of environment and you don't tell the primary custodian, the father, you drop the ball. you really think, renee rockwell if that father had known what was going on inside that home, he'd let the girl stay there for five weeks? >> nancy, here's the disconnect. dss was actually investigating some problems that were with the 7-year-old son. so i don't even think dss knew that the little girl was in the house, nancy. >> put rockwell up.

renee, you and i have both handled cases that touched on df dfcs. you know one of the first questions they ask is, how many children do you have? one of the first questions. >> and nancy, he cannot -- the father of this child cannot beat himself up because -- >> nobody asked him to. it's not his fault. 4. >> i know that. he's upset about this. he tried to do the right thing. you're absolutely right. it's down to resources and, again, dss -- >> put her up. okay, did you hear that, ripka? renee says it's resources. i think somebody didn't bother to pick up the phone and do their job. now we're all monday morning quarterbacking. what about it, ripka? >> nancy, at the end of the day if the father of this child thought the mother was on drugs or involved with drugs he would not have given her another opportunity with the child. >> i know that. >> furtmore, she doesn't sound like on the 911 tape she's on drugs nor the way she appears on the tape when she's being indicted.

>> is that supposed to convince me of something that she didn't sound stoned out of her gourd when she called 911? obviously according to police this was a planned phone call. she managed to keep it together for the three minutes she was on the phone call. >> she has no history of drug abuse in the home, so it does not seem likely drugs have to do with this, nancy. >> okay. correction. back to you, marlaina schiavo, isn't it true that we have been told by multiple sources that drugs have been sold out of the home and drug paraphernalia was found in the home and dfcs checked out the home because of a drug report? >> that is all correct, nancy. >> okay. we are taking your calls live. out to phyllis in tennessee. what's your question, dear? >> caller: hi, nancy, it's so nice to talk to you. >> likewise. >> caller: i was talking about shaniya's dad. he said he didn't know that that trash had taken their daughter out of school.

okay. why didn't the school contact him? i don't understand this. i mean, around here, if our kids are out of school and we don't call and give a reason, they call us. >> phyllis, you are so right.

we have talked about social services. i feel if they knew or were aware of this case, a phone call saying that this was the type of environment, i don't know the whole case with shaniya's mother and social services at this time.

but if -- i feel if they would have known they should have contacted me. >> tonight, we learn shaniya's father blaming himself for her death. to jeff gardere, dr. gardere, psychologist, author of "love prescription." why, why is the father blaming himself? there were red flags everywhere, but nobody waved them in front of him. >> well, he's blaming himself, nancy, because he felt that he gave the mother a chance to get herself together and, perhaps, it was the wrong judgment call on his part. so, i can understand where he's coming from, but he should not be blaming himself. >> isn't that common, dr. jeff, that the survivor, the loved ones always feel like there was something they should have, could have done to stop what happened? >> oh, absolutely. >> he had no idea this moron mcneill was going to come into the picture and his wife has a drug debt, allegedly. he didn't know that. >> he's going to be blaming himself for a long time.

my message is do not blame yourself. come together with your family and grieve in the proper way. we can all learn from this. >> very quickly to former chief of police, boca raton, vp of scott robertson associates. sir, thank you for being with us. i want to ask you about phyllis in tennessee's question. the child was taken out of school for weeks, but nobody contacted the primary guardian. >> that's a problem. it's a problem on several accounts. with regards to first and foremost, nobody from the school checking in on the parent and on the child as to why the child was pulled out. seconda secondarily, the father has just as much right to know what the condition of the student is, and particularly being his child, he should have known as well. both -- the system has failed completely on many levels for this child. >> on many, many levels. >> to dr. oliver, former deputy investigator, forensic pathologist. dr. oliver, they're telling me

tonight they haven't finished the autopsy. that is complete b.s. it does not take three days to do an autopsy. it doesn't. maybe they are waiting on toxicology reports. why would they even say that, because they don't want to release the outcome yet? >> that's correct, nancy. it only takes about two hours to complete an autopsy. apparently they don't want to release the results because it interferes with the evidentiary gathering at this time.

you're also charged with felony child abuse. do you understand that? >> yes, sir. >> human trafficking, ma'am, is a class "c" felony. it is punishable by 261 months in prison. do you understand that? >> yes. >> no further charges will be forthcoming until the jurisdiction has been determined. >> north carolina prosecutors aren't filing any other charges against the mother of 5-year-old

shaniya davis, not yet, at least. antoinette davis is charged with human trafficking and child prostitution. a man caught carrying the child is facing kidnapping charges. they said more charges will follow. they did say they feel they have the two main key players in shaniya's disappearance behind bars right now. >> i know you guys have seen the mom in court. you've seen the video of that guy and mario mcneill with her. you guys knew antoinette. how could she just hand the baby over, byron? >> that's something, i mean, it's hard to believe a mother would just hand a child over to a complete -- i don't know. she was real giggly. once she got to know you. she would not go to any

stranger, no male at all. she was real giggly. she was always laughing. once you get her talking, she would not be quiet. she would talk you to death. she would take every female, my girlfriend, to female friends that would just come over to visit, aunts, grandmas, and take them in the back and try to do makeup with them, show them all her toys. shaniya just was always laughing. you could never see a frown on her face. >> we are awaiting autopsy results tonight. that tiny body is still at the morgue. we are taking your calls live. sonia, oklahoma. hi, sonia. >> caller: hi, nancy. thanks for taking my call. >> thank you for calling in. >> caller: i'm curious about the custody agreement. if the father had sole custody, can he be charged with leaving her with that monster and not notifying the court where the baby was? >> interesting question. i don't believe the mom had any type of formal custody.

what about it, marlaina shy you? >> we -- no. there was no formal custody between the two. i think it was more between the two of them and their agreements with each other. >> what about it, gurnal scott, joining us from wptf? >> we know of no formal custody agreement. it seems to be something the two of them figured out. and again, he trusted her and said, i'm going to let my daughter stay with you. >> bottom line, gurnal, true. she may be alive today, she would be alive today if he hadn't left her there. that's true. you can't blame him for the criminal act of the mother allegedly and mcneill, the doper, the convicted felon. you can't blame him for what they did. yes, in retrospect, he shouldn't have left her there, but he did not murder the child. there's no doubt in our minds about that. back to the lines. susan, missouri. hi, susan. >> caller: hi, nancy.

my question is regarding the school. we discussed school, the child was not in school. >> right. >> caller: but my question is, was anybody from shaniya's family on dad's side calling or seeing her, contacting her within this five-week period, if the mothers of so drugged out all the time? >> what about it, matt zarrell? what do we know? >> we have been hearing the aunt would take her on the weekends occasionally during the five weeks. she would see her. we have heard allegations -- >> hold on. when you say the aunt, you mean the father -- the bio father's sister who we saw speaking earlier? >> yes. >> yeah. she took the little girl quite often. go ahead. >> there were allegations while shaniya was in the home, there were burns that shaniya suffered. we talked to the father. the father denies that.

he said sha niya suffered from eczema and it appeared to be burns but it was not burns. >> to coca in alabama. hi. >> caller: i want to tell you i love you so, so much. i have been trying for so, so long to get ahold of you. thank you for being an advocate for the holloway case and caylee anthony and all the cases you do. you aspire me and after this, today -- i work at a telephone company for almost ten years. i said i'm going back to school -- i started out with criminal justice and i want to be a prosecutor like you. the mom, my question is, how come they haven't filed murder charges on the mom? >> cocoa in virginia. number one, other than being called mommy, that's one of the nicest things anyone has ever said to me, what you just said. but, why are they waiting? i think they are waiting to identify the body. i think they are going to come

out with a formal announcement that this is her body and a formal announcement of cause of death. in that indictment, let's go to the lawyers. gloria allred, rene rock fell, alan ripka. there may be other charges they are waiting on, gloria allred, such as they may be waiting on a sex kit, rape kit comparing dna back to mcneill. if so, there's rape charged and sodomy charge and the mother would be charged in that if the charges will handed down. >> depending on where the evidence leads. we don't know what evidence they have. could we stop calling it sexual servitude and call it what it should be called, sexual slavery. there are a lot of children sold into sexual slavery. it's shocking we don't hear more about it. we're going to have to find out what the evidence is that will support further charges against the mom. >> liz, let's put those stats up

about sex slavery amongst children. i don't mean over in some other country. i'm not talking about bangkok, far, far away, a place you may never have been. i'm talking about right here in america where this little child was going to be used before she was murdered. i want to go to renee rockwell and alan ripka. why the delay in the murder charges, renee? >> my understanding is they are trying to decide where the murder actually took place. they need to hurry up. both of these individuals have bonds. >> i'm sick about that. >> if they make the bonds, they're out of there. >> i'm sick about that. the reality is, renee, one has a $50,000, translation, $5,000, one has $100,000, translation $10,000 bond. look, if she was selling her daughter for a drug debt on a hit of crack, she doesn't have $10,000. she doesn't have two pennies to rub together. >> nancy, maybe not her, but

he's out of there. if somebody goes to a bonding company and makes a promise, he's out of there. >> you know what? you're right, renee. i think the bond is way, way too low. i don't know what that judge was thinking. to alan ripka, defense attorney, new york. another reason they may be waiting on the formal charge of indictment, because they may be researching aggravating circumstances. they are not afraid of the death penalty in north carolina. >> they certainly are not. on the other hand, if they determine the baby was kidnapped from the mother's house, then she's never going to be charged with murder and the tape showing the child going into the motel did not include the mother, so, in fact, she may not be charged with that at all. >> put ripka up. alan. >> yes. >> we already know the entire 911 call was a fake. so, why are you saying -- i want you to look in the camera, right? you're speaking to your friends, your colleagues, people that

don't even know you. why would you say she didn't know what was happening? >> because there's no evidence that she knew anyone was going to be murdered. at all. >> it doesn't matter. if she handed that child over for child prostitution and the child ended up dead, that is a felony murder. a death occurred in the commission of a felony. >> if, in fact, that's proven, you're right. you have to prove she was handing the child over. >> let's address that. what do we know that suggests the mother knew? >> well, what we are seeing is, well, like you said, with the 911 call, the mother may have faked that 911 call. we don't know that for sure, yet. police are researching that. it's still all tied up in the investigation. we don't know who's in charge and we're going to have to find out what people know in order to get to the truth of that. >> as you know, everyone, november, national alzheimer's awareness month. over 5 million in the u.s. live

with it. the seventh leading cause of death in the u.s. it's a brain disease. progressive, fatal, no cure. warning signs, confusion, memory loss, misplacing things, changes in mood, personality. early diagnose, crucial. for information go to alz.org.

9-year-old elizabeth olten was brutally murdered walking home from a play date just feet from her house. the alleged killer, 15-year-old alyssa bustamante, just charged as an adult with first-degree murder. >> the fact this juvenile didn't call in and say there was an accident leads me to think this is something way more nefarious than that. >> a 15-year-old girl is the murder suspect? not just murder, premeditated malice murder one suspect. this was planned. >> bustmante now facing life in prison without parole for allegedly strangling and stabbing elizabeth olten. elizabeth's body found in a nearby wooded area. >> the youtube profile page lists her hobbies including

cutting and killing people. the youtube page also contains disturbing video allegedly showing the teen girl suspect giving herselves shocks from an electrified fence on purpose. >> a police officer testified in court that bustmante testified to killing elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. >> she actually told the police that was her motive? she wanted to know what it felt like to kill somebody? also tonight, we are learning there is evidence that she lured the little girl, a little 9-year-old girl into the woods that she had dug a shallow grave several days before in anticipation of murdering this little girl. elizabeth olten. you are seeing photos that have just been obtained today, up until today because the alleged perpetrator, a 15-year-old girl is a juvenile, we haven't been able to show you her face. here she is in all her slender

and glory. ladd egan, news director, anchor at krcg in court today. ladd, what happened in court? >> 8:00 in the morning, there was a certification hearing. she came in shackled in an orange jumpsuit. it was to decide if she would be better served in a juvenile or as an adult. at the end of the hearing the judge said she'll be tried as an adult. she was immediately rearrested by the sheriff there and taken and reprocessed. a lot of bombshells came out in the court proceedings. one of those we learned is that the highway patrol investigator said that five days before the murder on a friday when school was out, she went out into the woods and dug two graves. five days then passed. the weekend. she went back to school for three days before the night of

the allege d murder. we also learned in court the highway patrol investigator said that alyssa bustamante told him he did the murder, murdered elizabeth olten, the 9-year-old because she wanted to know what it felt like. >> okay. motive evidence out the ying-yang. of course, not that the state needs to prove motive. to ellie jostad, chief editorial producer who's been on the story. three causes of death. one wasn't enough? >> in the indictment, she's charged with first-degree murder and armed criminal action. in the indictment they allege she strangled, stabbed and cut the little girl's throat. >> okay. rupa mcmainny from our staff, on the story from the very, very beginning. the evidence is suggesting she lured the little girl out to the woods to kill her. isn't it true her family had been concerned she spent so much time in the woods? >> that's right, nancy. we have heard from neighbors in

the community close by that observed, first of all, that the two young girls, the 15-year-old and the 9-year-old -- >> hold on. i want the viewers to know, you're seeing video that this girl now charged with murder one of a little 9-year-old girl, this is video she, herself, posted on youtube or myspace showing electrocuting herself and her little brothers on an electric pence. nice. okay, rupa. >> the 5-year-old and 9-year-old -- neighbors say alyssa bustamante is quite thin, quite small, no way she could have dragged the body of a 9-year-old, maybe 60 pounds, 300 or 400 yards outside from the house into the woods where her body was found. the theory is that the 9-year-old was lured by bustamante. >> to dr. howard oliver, dr. oliver, stabbed, strangled,

throat cut. why? why three alleged causes of death? can you tell which one was the actual cause of death? >> not all wounds are necessarily deadly. the autopsy will tell which was deadly. maybe all three were deadly. apparently, she wasn't successful at killing the other child with one or two methods and had to revert to a third method to finish the little girl off. >> elizabeth olten, 8 years old. on her way home, broad daylight, from a little play date. turns out the play date's older sister is bustamante, the 15-year-old now charged in her brutal murder. unleash the lawyers. gloria allred, renee rockwell, alan ripka. tonight we learn she will be treated as an adult. there is a chance she can get out in six years. once there has been a plea or a conviction, in this case, the

judge will then determine whether she will stay in juvenile or be treated as an adult in the adult penal system. it's called duel jurisdiction. what do you think about that? she could walk in six years. >> that's right. because if she's treated as a juvenile, then she could walk at age 21, and as an adult she can get life imprisonment without the possibility of patrol. and so my sense of it is it is highly likely she will be treated as an adult. >> renee, allen. first to you, renee, let me guess, she's crazy, right? >> what else is there? >> at least you're honest. at least you're honest. what else is there? why do you say that, renee? when there's absolutely nothing you can say, you say insanity. >> nancy, she's not going to be use anything else like some type of self-defense. you have a situation now that she spilled the beans.

she's talked about a grave, two graves, nancy, that she dug five days in advance. can you say pre-med case? the very fact she's been certified to be tried as fact t certified to be tried as an adult, she is facing the possibility of live n jail. >> renee is right. you can get live without parole even if you are a juvenile at the time you commit the offense. what's your best defense? i shutter to think who will be in the second ratio. >> the statement will be thrown out. that statement will be thrown out because the officers shouldn't have taken it because she was a minor and as a result of not having that statement, they will not have corroborating evidence to get prosecution in the case. >> do you have any idea whether anybody was with her like a guardian or a lawyer? you don't, do you? >> there wasn't. there has been no reporting. >> that's a big fat no to me.

>> assuming there was no guardian and this officer improperly violated her rights. >> everybody, on a happy note, happy 86th to florida friend, clair. a mother of two sons and loves hln, movies and playing cards with the girls. happy birthday, beautiful, beautiful clair.

>> okay. i'm about to grab this with my hand. . >> that's what all normal 15-year-old girls do in their spare time. they shock themselves on an electric fence on you tube and

post it along with shocking their little brothers. that is video from you tube of bustamante shocking herself. that is not going to come into evidence, defense attorneys. hi, amy. >> caller: hi, nancy. how are you? >> good, dear. what's your question. >> caller: how have we not had any responsibility to the 15-year-old's parents? i have three teenage boys and if they get detention, i want to know what's going on in their life. >> good question. what do we know about her home situation? >> we don't know much about her parents. we know her grandparent has been her legal guardian for about years since 2001. >> hold on, miss ellie. my grandmother, god rest her soul, helped raise me. if anyone is casting that as

part of the upbringing, that's no good. do you think that will come up in trial? gloria? >> no, i don't think it will come up with in trial. it's about her responsibility, the defendant's lack of responsibility or what she did and that's not it. >> rip ka? >> i will have the grandmother on the stand or family member discussing what she has been like and why she did this stuff. >> when will this go to trial? >> december 7th is a court date, but that's a status hearing. >> let's stop and remember army specialist jonathan welsh, 19, yorba linda, california, killed afghanistan. wanted to be in the army since he was 6. loved music, especially punk rock. leaves his parents and brother and sister. jonathan well ch, american hero. thank you for inviting us into your homes. see you tomorrow night 8:00

sharp eastern. until then, good night, friend. i'm aj hammer in new york. levi johnson's sarah palin slam caught on tape. this is your first look at eve leaf eye's photo suit. >> a major figure who caused big trouble for michael kills himself.

this is tv's most provocative news show firing up at the top of the hour here on hln. nininini