>> this is the second day of the shopping season and the day after black friday. we want to talk with you for the first half-hour of the program about how has the economy affected your holiday shopping plans. will you bring more cash to the stores when you go? are you staying home and shopping online with your credit cards and debit cards?

tell us how the economy has affected your holiday shopping plans. the black friday story is in all the newspapers this morning. most of the lead stories like this example from "the wall street journal." black friday tests the economy. the shoppers are still too slow to open wallets.

at the checkout lines, many people were sticking to the mostly deeply discounted items. the article goes on to say that brian dunn the chief executive of best buy said that people were snapping up net book computers and smaller flat screen televisions. this is not a year work wallet were expanding, he said. there will be winners and losers this season in retail. the differences will be pronounced. more from "the new york times." shoppers are out in force but most are sticking to their list. they write that on the marathon shopping day known as black friday, anecdotal reports across the country suggest an encouraging opening to the policy shopping season with larger and more enthusiastic crowds of last year across many

categories of merchandise. retailers noticed that customers spend more money on themselves than one year ago. the article goes on to say that despite the improved mood, frugality has not gone out of style. many of the friday shoppers seemed to stick to their list and take a better job discounts rather than give in to impulse purchases. we want to find out what some of your plans are and how the economy has affected your holiday shopping plans. our first call comes on our democrats line. california. caller: i wake up early quite a lot. host: are you getting up to go shopping this morning? caller: no, i cannot afford shopping this year. host: you are making your guests? caller: yes i make christmas cards and things like that forgets.

i make inexpensive jewelry and they do leather. host: are you getting into these home made gets because of the economy? caller: yes, i prefer to buy my guess bike i cannot afford to this year. host: how many more deaths are you making this year rather than last year because of the economy. caller: last year i made about half my gets and this year by making all my gifts. caller: gulfport, mississippi. host: victor, go ahead caller: caller: it is good that people get out and buy because it helps our economy by reducing what we

have in our house so we can put people back to work. that is the way i am looking at this thing. i hope everybody looks at the regardless, i am very proud to see that people, regardless of the way everyone talks about the economy, i am very happy to see people out there shopping as they are doing host: were you out shopping yesterday? caller: yes, i was. host: how early did you go out? many stores opened at 5:00 in the morning. were you part of that crowd? caller: no, i was part of the crowd at 6:00 but i happen to see a lot of people shopping. i do not get up that early. i used to when i was in the military. not any longer. i was proud to see people shopping.

people are spending their money because this is what improves our economy. host: did you have a list in your hand when you went shopping or were you looking gardasil when you got there? caller: no, i was looking for the sales when i got there. i bought a tricycle for a young child who is three or four years old. i managed to only get three or four gifts by when a little bit overboard. at the same time, it has put the pride back into my country. host: jesse, in las vegas, how has the holiday affected your holiday shopping? caller: i have been unemployed for a couple of months and a

state of las vegas cut the of one month ago. i did not to get to do any shopping. i had a thanksgiving dinner but it has not been a great time we are trying to make it. host: the first caller we had talked about how she shifted from buying gifts to making deaths. would you be in that same position? caller: yes, that is all i can do. host: in "the financial times," the national retailers federation said all sectors have reported strong crowds while analysts said the numbers seem similar to or slightly above last year's level. the analysts' said deals on basic items like low-cost vacuum

cleaners, coffee makers, towels and bedding and luggage reflected a prevailing tone of practicality as well as a bid by retailers to persuade consumers to start spending again. they go on to say that in spite of the focus on practicality, few shoppers indicated any readiness to spend more this season a mother from erie, pa. who lined up outside the toys r us like chip store in times square said she expected to spend about the sent as she spent last year. i am sure her kids are happy to hear that steve, in connecticut, an airline for republicans, go ahead. i'm sorry, we have richard in los angeles on our line for republicans. go ahead. caller: i started the year with two part-time jobs and a full- time job.

both the part-time jobs are gone. i don't know how long things will last for it i am holding back. i will probably spend a 25% less than last year. host: you were not among the crowds were trying to get in early? caller: not at all. i did not see a lot of great deals in the eds. ads. calle host: do you have a list or are you looking for sales items? caller: i am looking for sale items. i don't really have a list, specifically. there are a couple of people i want to shop for but i am looking for the price to come down most people i am looking for certain items. i'm looking at a price range. host: let's go to steve in

connecticut. good morning. caller: i was not part of the crowd out yesterday. i work full time and i don't plan on having any job disruption but our health insurance plan to cut a big hit where we have to pay more for our spouses. i will be spending less. both of my children have specific items they want and i will wait close to christmas to seek if there are better deals. host: the headline in "the new york post" talks about shoppers going back to basics. is that your plan this season? caller: my girls are teenagers and they live with their mom. i will try to match what they want. host: what is on their holiday shopping list? caller: of them as a birthday next week and that makes it

tougher. one of them wants a digital camera. we will see if we combine the birthday and christmas. host: the curse of the christmas birthday. thanks for your call. more from the article in "the new york post." coats, sweaters, gloves, and scarves instead of rolling as an first work rapidly snapped up at early bird sales, some of which started at 5:00 a.m. this is the first time it will be about what the family needs and set of toys that will be pushed aside in a week. one shopper was hunting at macy's for discounted clothes and home electronics. durham, n.c., have are on our line for independence, go ahead caller: i did not shot -- shop

and a retail store but i shopped on-line. we have been successful for this year. my husband has a stable job. even so, you never know what could happen tomorrow. my older son requested a computer for christmas. in years past, i probably would have gone out and purchased either a nice laptop or desktop computer, instead i bought a net book. my other son requested and ipod. he is getting the bottom of the barrel instead of the top of the line. we are the classic case of a middle-class family who has stable jobs but are downsizing what they purchase. host: do you think it's easier for you to find bargains on line or did you not want to deal with the crowds?

caller: a combination. the sales online for the retailers, they are offering coupons, discounts. i could have gone and stood in line at retailers like best buy and bought a net book but for all my, i paid maybe $20 more than what i -- what i would have paid in the store. it is also a better quality unit. in my mind, it was worth between -- it was not worth the $20 to stand in line. sales of online prices are just as good as what the retailers are offering in their stores. host: thank you for your call. many buyers are hunting for lower prices. analysts said worried consumers have not reached a point of loosening the iron grip on their wallets. there is a focus on all things approval right now.

parents want to make sure they aren't getting the most for their money. they want toys that are small in price but really big on fund. our next call comes from north carolina. this is our line for independence. good morning. caller: i'm calling from cherry bill. host: how was the shopping tax caller: the shopping was not too good for me. i'm looking to get things that my family needs like sell bonds and i got my brother some necessity items. in the past, you could get them anything but this year, people need to keep the heat on. i bought a couple of space heaters and things like that.

i just went to get something that would be essential part unfortunately, people this year and the last couple of years have talked about a bad economy. for our family, we had a bad economy since bush went into office. it has not gotten better. job growth has been descending constantly so it is too bad that everybody is starting to see how bad it has been carried it has been a trickle down effect for quite a few years. people are just getting concerned that things are not as good as they should. host: will you be doing more shopping online? caller: i do all my shopping, brady bargains on the internet, if you can find a good retailer, a lot of them offer savings and discounts when you buy a certain amount of things.

the bargains are much better online, in my opinion. host: more from the article in "the new york daily news." one analyst said that online retailers stepped up their game, earlier than usual this year, offering more promotions ahead of the so-called cyber-monday to complete -- compete with bricken mortar stores. bacon to multiple, limited time lightning deals. -- they can do multiple, limited time lightning deals. st. louis, missouri, on airline for democrats. caller: good morning, how are you? host: how has the economy affected your shopping? caller: i shop online.

this year for a couple of reasons. i was looking to get a good price and i wanted to avoid the basic chaos. that goes with shopping. i am a single male and i cannot compete. i was shopping online and i was looking for more ethnic items. i was looking for things that were more kwanzaa-related. i was able to find those items on my. host: 92. we want to keep things moving. this is from the associated

press. pakistan's embattled president has relinquished command of the country's nuclear arsenal amid political wrangling that has posed a major distraction to the u.s. allied government as it fights the taliban and other militants near the afghan border. the move came as the president faced the expiration on saturday of an amnesty protecting him and thousands of other politicians from a host of corruption and criminal charges. back to the bones, more rain, in west haven, connecticut, on our line for democrats. how is your shopping going so far? caller: the economy has affected shopping for the past four years. i start christmas shopping in june. host: in june?

caller: when i see some but -- something for somebody and i have the money, i put the things away. i have an 18-year-old son who has a birthday the week before christmas. i try to get him some extra things and i give him cash per it i cannot by everybody that things i would normally want to buy. i keep a limit to $25 for everybody. that is why i start in june. host: are you done with your shopping? caller: i have maybe four or five things left to buy. host: are you better able to manage your shopping because you start so far ahead? caller: absolutely, people would not get as much if i did not do this. host: you don't feel like you're missing out on any of the sales

that are coming up over the next couple of weeks? caller: no, not at all because when you shop in the summer, the fall. i shop for nephews and nieces and i know they will like certain things and that i have the money, i can buy it. i do not have to put anything on a credit card. host: thank you for your call. the lead story in "the washington post" about the situation in dubai. dubai world and investment company was weighed down by real investment -- real estate investment losses. they want to delay payments. it could deflate stock to emerging-market by 2.1%. officials in washington and european capitals continue to closely monitor the financial

markets friday, worried that about the -- worried that the dubai debt problem will bring down other markets. stocks in the united states fell modestly. european markets gained friday, following the steep losses thursday when the u.s. markets were closed for the thanksgiving holiday. we will talk more about what is going on in to buy. let's go back to the phones. santa monica, california, danny on airline for democrats, go ahead. caller: i am a c-span junkie. host: are you going shopping this morning? caller: i saw an ad -- i saw a magazine called ad-busters and the advertised eight no-shopping

day. i fast to be conscious of how we are overwhelmed with the amount of food we eat and plus the soldiers that cannot come home and eat. when i'm delirious the day after that, i will get the food but i bypass the shop and i will watch the coverage and see the faces of the people shopping. sometimes they are smiling but 90% of the time, they look very stressed out in photographs and the coverage in the news. i was calling to say that buy- nothing day is the best protest you can do and it is fantastic to be conscious of how we are manipulated by the credit card companies, advertisers to go out there to overspend and overreach are possibilities. for me, my family is not the most excited about my stance but

i can only salways find deals. out here, we have a lot of vacancies with merchants. i go at a different angle. nonetheless, i do enjoy the holidays. host: when you go out shopping during the holiday season, will you be armed with a concrete list of things you will buy? caller: i would probably be more impromptu and try to talk to people that i know that i am buying pork and tried to go for specific items that they might want and i would hope for a discount but i do not plan on coupons. i might check things on my back and do a little research but for the most part, it is spur of the

moment spending. host: thank you for your call. more on the situation in to buy and how it may affect the united states, this is from the " philadelphia inquirer." financial analysts are not greatly worried about exposure to dubai. their main investment arm seeks a six-month delay in repaying nearly $60 billion in debt. citibank is the only u.s. financial firm that has significant exposure. they have about $5.8 billion in loans or assets tied up in dubai. st. louis, sharon on our live for independence, how has the economy affected your shopping plans? caller: i have the luxury of sticking with the same budget that i had last year.

with so many family and friends out of work, i have been conscious of helping them as well financially. i have been trying to buy gift cards and stick to my budget. i will go to clothing stores that will give the kids the essential things they need. i go to stores that are close to home so i am not spending a lot of gas. i have been thinking about how much money my family will spend doing this. host: when you are buying gift cards, are you looking at reducing the amount that you're putting on the gift cards or buying your gift cards or is that a factor? caller: i have a budget for each one. i have been able to keep my

budget for each one. for each kid, it is $50. that's why i'm not spending a lot and wrapping paper or buying an envelope and i am handing it to them at christmas and they love it because they get to go and buy exactly what they want. it is not a lot of running back and forth and returning things. i was more concerned with preserving peul. host: from "the baltimore sun," the national retail federation which will release weekend sales results on sunday said the day was gearing up to be better than 2008. the group predicts that as many as 134 million people will shop this weekend, more than the 128 million people who planned to shop last year for the international cancer -- the international council of shopping centers said many people are were planning to go out on black friday.

houston, pa., on our line for republicans, go ahead. caller: the economy has affected me 100%. i used to work for dimer chrysler and when the grass -- gas crunch hit, i lost my job. i went to work for home depot and then the recession hit. unfortunately, i lost my job there. now, my holiday spending spree has been reduced to zero. it is spending for bills only and trying to keep alive. on for sudley for me, the holiday spending spree was zero. i am worried about how the economy has affected me. host: there were a lot of sales yester day when shoppers went to the store for black pride. will you check those sales to

see if the savings go up as we go further into the holiday season? caller: i am writing of holiday spending 100% pe. host: the next likely economic stimulus plan is "cash for greener washers and refrigerators." on the heels of the "cash for clunkers program, called the federal government is expected to complete details in the coming weeks of another shopping extravaganza known for -- known as a "cash for appliances." the program will offer rebates to consumers who buy energy- efficient refrigerators, dishwashers, air-conditioner, and other appliances to replace their older models. cleveland, ohio, karen on our line for independence, good

morning. how has the economy affected your holiday shopping plans? caller: because we are in a recession and everyone -- are we still at 10% unemployment? it doesn't seem like it. it seems like people are burying their heads. it is christmas and we have to spend and why is that? guest: are you working were unemployed? caller: i am working. we decided a couple of years ago and we have easier because our children are grown and living on their own to not get sucked into that whole arena of christmas. christmas is a retailer-made holiday parade who says we have to do this? this is not what christmas is supposed to be about.

the credit card companies have dropped credit limits and raised rates. that has put a damper on things. it should put a damper on things. do we not realize what an overindulge in country we are? i agree with the other man that was on a couple calls ago who said the same thing. i am doing it more out of principle but i like not spending the money. i like watching everyone else and then talking about what they have to get rid it is stressful and to take yourself out of it is a relief. you can just enjoy the holiday and enjoy your family and your friends and a good food and the getting together. people come home for the holidays and you can really enjoy yourself and not worry about what you are spending host: thank you for the call.

"the new york times this" after the break we will talk about more. >> on this boat, the yeas are

60, 3/5 of the senators are voting in the affirmative and the motion is agreed to. >> with that boat, the senate moves its health care bill to the floor starting monday and through december. follow the entire debate and how the bill would affect access to medical care. the public option, taxes, and medicare, live on c-span 2, the only network that gives you the senate, gavel-to-gavel. american icons, 30 original documentaries from cspan now available on dvd. it is a unique journey through the iconic homes of the three branches of american government. see the exquisite detail of the supreme court through the eyes of the justices agreed dopey on the belt that runs and public tours into those rarely seen spaces of the white house, america's most famous home. explore the history, art, and architecture of the capital, one of america's most symbolic structures. american icons, a three-disc

dvd said. it is $24.95 plus shipping and handling. order it online at c-span.org. the 2010 studentcam contest is on. the top prize is $5,000. create a 5-8 minute video. it must incorporate cspan programming and show varying points of view. the deadline is january 20. winning entries will be shown on c-span. grab a camera and get started. >> "washington journal "washington journal continues. >> we have a senior fellow on environmental studies. host: i want to read to you from "the new york times" a call this

morning. scientists are calling for a change in the studies on global warming. guest: we got to this point by not being very transparent. it would suggest that the reviewers for the papers and literatures who would intimidate the editors of journals who would publish papers that they did not like by so-called skeptics. what happened is that this is a result of the substantial bias of the scientific literature. this is bad. this information that goes into these big reports or serves as the basis for the epa proposed endangerment findings, they rely heavily on these compilations.

it will now be demonstrable that the compilations themselves were biased by a group of individuals dealing with the journal editors. i don't know where this will end. there will be some kind of major resignation on this. host: is the story here that the planet is not suffering from climate change as we might have been led to believe or is it that the numbers were caught to exacerbate a climate change problem. guest: both. the papers they objected to generally said that it is warmer than it was an people have something to do with it but the warner is at the low rent -- the low end of the rate predicted. on the other hand, if you look at a lot of the papers on the

other side of the issue, there seems to be lots of attempts to make sure that it looked warmer than it was. there is a known cooling in the globe surface temperature in the mid-20th century. there are e-mails about how we have to add this number of degrees to it. that is not science. that is attempting to paint a picture. biased science. host: another article says that stolen e-mails sharpen the debate between scientists. one group was cooperating with police to find out how their e- mails and it up on the internet last week. scientists and skeptic say that this breach ethical lapses in the research community.

tell us more about the climate research unit and how it fits in with this story. guest: the cru is one of the major points in the world where climate data is aggregated. it has run on a very large amount of u.s. department of energy money. i think it is fair to say that many people at the cru have been motivated politically. they have funding from the swedish government to spread the climate change word in the third world in a publication called tiempo which is way off on the left. that is fine. people can do that but when they start to influence journal editors and say we will boy cott your journal, that would

put an important hole in the publication stream. there was an editor they did not like at the geophysical research letters. all the sudden, one person was caught red upper this is not the way you do science. this is a recipe to take the public face away from size. i have written about this in many books. things are going on that are fast and loose in this field. the result will be a major tragedy which is a reduction in the public faith in science. host: before we go to the palms, i want to show some e-mails from a prominent climate scientists. this revealed acrimony to people who hold different views on climate change. there is one dated friday,

october 9, 2009, he says," i am sorry you have to go for all this stuff. next time i see pat michaels at a meeting, i am tempted to beat the crap out of him." another one says," can you delete any e-mails you may have had with keith? and can you also e-mail gene and get him to do the same? we will samecasper to do likewise." this guy wants to beat you up? guest: he needs anchor management. i'm not the only person he is nasty to parrot host: who is he

and why did he write this? guest: he is very upset with me since 1996, there was a paper he put in nature magazine that was clearly orchestrated to move the united nations and the direction of the climate change protocol. there were odd things in it. when i selected all the data, the result of the paper fell apart. they're not happy about that part oof it. he threatened to wrap a microphone cord around my neck. they are very sensitive for there was nothing wrong with a science. that email is in response to an op-ed i broachewrote called," ta global warming."

that is a type of deletion on these e-mails. i don't know why it is necessary to do that. host: go to the phones. -- let's go to the phones. our first call comes from our line from republicans out of new haven, connecticut, go ahead. let's move on to steve in sterling, va., an airline for democrats spread -- on our line for democrats. caller: i got involved in the gear 2000 and bought the hon the electric car. guest: i have one, too.

caller: the tires are the only problem with that car. it allowed me to take a look at what efforts are being applied and what we can do to prevent a catastrophic failure of the planet. planting trees is something i started doing. this is so we could have an offset on the food chain. it is surprising to see how many apples you can get out of an apple tree. i bought a laser thermometer and i was going around taking the temperature of the asphalt and concrete and comparing it to treat temperatures of the leaves and so forth. i'm coming up with 130 degrees on the asphalt. we should look at our

international highway system as the coils on an electric when the sun shines on the highway system of america, it brings the temperature up to about 130 degrees all day long from the east coast to the west coast from canada down to the mexican border. we are creating a lot of heat just from the reflected energy from the asphalt and road service says. guest: actually, this is something called the urban heat island. it was thought this was dealt with. a guy up in canada made a public paper showing that about half the warming in the service records was probably more related to stuff like you are talking about that is not that bad because only 30% of the earth is land. it goes to show that these guys

who were going around saying that the science is settled, they were not telling the truth. it is obvious. ifk you have to manipulate the journal editors on global -- global warming science, the science is not settled but there are things you don't want out there. host: jubilee they don't want out there? caller: i think they are threatened by papers that said this was not the end of the world. the papers have a lot of sense in them and they do not say there is no such thing as global warming. it is warmer than it was 100 years ago. notu$i that much. you cannot say that human beings have nothing to do with it because of the nature of the warming of the second half of the 20th-century what you can say is that this warning is actually quite modest. it is at low rent -- low end of the brain.

-- low end of the range. host: our next call for pat michaels comes from port huron, mich., on our line for independence. caller: who stands the most to gain from the comptroller resources? who has -- who wants to make the most money and why are they pushing it so much? i believe we should have efficient vehicles and the power grid to be upgraded and we should have solar power and wind power. who really will make the money on those things? guest: don't counter chickens when it comes to solar and wind power they will not produce that much. in the legislation in

washington, hydropower does not count as renewable. the major money makers are people who will trade this carbon emissions permit issue. these were given away too many industries in the legislation that can out of the house. industry will be able to sell these and tell people not to produce a lot of carbon. there'll be a lot of money made it lost in this. the way it worked in reality in europe was that the market's split themselves apart and it was a bust. host: next caller is from silver spring, maryland, victor on our line for republicans. caller: i have never really believed that global warming is manic-cost per when i heard al gore wining, i knew it was bombed.

-- i knew it was bunk. i have called these people watermelons for years because they are green on the outside and red on the inside. it is a new home for the communists. no one will argue with them about the environment of course everybody wants a clean environment. we are finding out that whole thing was a fraud to begin with from al gore on down, things like banning incandescent light bulbs, i wonder if anybody is going to challenge all of these laws. the biggest one of them also as carbon dioxide is a pollutant. i have had a run in with one of these knots. i told him if he is herserious about saving the planet, hold his breath guest: the planet is

warmer than it was and there is a human influence but it is not as severe as people said. y. that is the core of the issue. if it turns out that it is not all that important, then there is a lot of nasty reaction. that is one of the things you are seeing in these e-mails. it is not a big deal. the cru in great britain is a huge receiver of research money. much of it comes from the united states. i remember there's a show called "the greenhouse conspiracy" and the director was on camera saying how important it was to keep the money coming for is graduate students. host: president obama says he will go to the meeting in

copenhagen and they will talk about global climate change. does the news of these dr. e- mails or the mills that talk about -- or the e-mails that talk about this, will they will -- will that hamper his efforts? guest: he is saying he could do something in copenhagen that he cannot do. if he is going to commit the united states to a carbon emissions reduction of 80%, the senate has to pass that. it is debatable whether it will pass the senate. he cannot do that. it has to pass the senate. i bet there are a lot of people in the senate who are sitting on the fans who are mad as heck that he went out in public and said the u.s. will do this.

that forces them to vote on something they don't want to vote on it puts them at loggerheads with the president on a critical international issue. i don't want to predict what will happen but it will be a very, very hot in washington. host: we are continuing our discussion on climate change with patrick michaels of the cato institute. he is a senior fellow they're dealing with environmental studies. greenbelt, maryland, on airline for democrats. caller: by m.a. ph.d. scientists. -- i am a ph.d. scientists. . i feel there is a too much sense ring in science th -- i feel there's too much sense a ring in science -- censoring in size.

-- in science. if you have a global warming issue, you cannot measure the warming of the earth just by a temperature alone. there are other factors involved. there is a rotation and specter of the molecules of a very complex system we have our atmosphere. dowdye isukw last name and you can google it and find information on the spreais. you don't find injured-lancing at all. -- inter-lensing at all.

al gore only woke up the issue. he is not a scientist. guest: in our country and in most countries, it is a very publicly-funded enterprises. climate science for example, it competes with aids and cancer and god knows what for your tax support. therefore, issues are portrayed in the most serious and dire terms. otherwise, that will not happen. that has a result of creating an inherent bias in the field. that means that people who write papers and say that this may not be the case are threats to the larger scientific community. there's probably a better way to do this. i have a feeling that this particular scandal will open up science. there will be a good fallout from this scandal in the client

side -- climate science and other areas i don't think there is a journal editor around that wants to make it appear that he is responding to pressure from bullying. host: a news poll was released last week talking about some of these numbers. they asked a question that you may have heard about the idea that the world's temperature has been going up slowly over the past 100 years. what is your personal opinion of this? 72% think this has been happening as opposed to march, 2006 when the number was up around 85%. for those saying it has not been happening, 26% say it has not been happening as opposed to 13% back in march, 2006.

the story we have been talking about, how much more credibility does it take away from the climate change argument? guest: those numbers will move closer together. the problem is the way you phrased these questions. people who follow this note that we have not seen any net warming in the surface temperature records for 12 years or so. there are complex reasons for that, many having to do with internal oscillations in the climate system. it is not that carbon dioxide does not want things but there are other indications that warning is likely to be less than projected over the course of the 21st century. when you asked those questions, you have to wonder how many people know about all lack of warming and therefore say it is not warming when you should ask the question about the last 50 years or so.

the answer would be yes. host: frank in tulsa, okla., on our line for independence. go ahead caller: this guy is a fresh breath of air, pardon the pun. i was an urban forester in tulsa for 30 years. without enough co2, the trees would die and the grass and algae around the planet would die and we would suffocate for lack of oxygen. the bigger point here i think is the origins of the crisis. i think it is all political. we are in the process of bankrupting the major nations so we can go to a one-world currency and ultimately a want-

world government had used and on that issue? guest: i would like to say you are paranoid but part of what you are saying is correct. there is a stream of thought through the united nations and a guy named maurice strong that this is a somewhat desirable course. that is not what the mainstream and wants or what most people will come out and tell you but there is that tone on the spur that bothers people a lot. what you said about carbon dioxide important. it is plant food and 10% of the increase in crop yields we have had over the second half of the 20th century is not due to technology, it is due to the fact there is more carbon dioxide in the air and it makes plants grow better.

we have tended to be very low and atmospheric carbon dioxide in the recent million or two years compared to where it has been historically. the climate of the earth is a much cleaner place. unfortunately, we tend to be in an ice age climate with glaciers in between. maybe co2 will keep it warm for a while. host: in "the wall street journal" they write that that juror over these documents is not about colloquialisms or whether scientists are nice people, the real issue is what the messages said. they talk about how the scientific consensus on global warming was arrived at and how a single view of warming and its causes is being enforced guest: that is a very prescient statement. they say it looks like the

literature was biased. this would be like saying that they don't want this section in the bible. that could cause a problem for people. there will have to be responsible reaction to this. ultimately, it will ultimately go to the head of the united nations and the governmental panel on climate change. there'll be some symbolic changes there. there will be attempts to show that there will be greater diversity and whether they will work well or not, i don't know host: our last call for this segment comes from township -- clinton township, mich., on our line for republicans. caller: i am enjoying this so much. there is so much i want to separate. the guy at the un, oonmoon, is

true. there are thousands of these e- mails. i watched the boxer-kerry markup bill and it would destroy our country. what they are doing across the board and across the world is causing food shortages, starving people, and all these people, these scientists who claim that the consensus and they don't allow the opposite opinion in theire when there are thousands of opposing opinions on this. guest: this is a scary situation. we did not really allow an open debate on this.

many people tried to shut down the debate with the statement that science is settled. it was not settled. there are 20 or 30 of us that knew that it was not and we could not get our word out there. maybe now we can go forward with some realistic policies. that would mean not wrecking the economy and going slowly and allowing people to invest in clean technology for the future rather than have the government take away in a futile attempt to stop warming. .

he will talk to us about homegrown terrorism. u.s. energy secretary stephen chu is our guest. he talked about the energy legislation congress has been debating and what it means for energy policy overall. guest: we want a comprehensive energy bill. the president made it clear this includes a cap on carbon and long-term goals. we are still pushing for those goals. the exact number is up for grabs. we see a range -- the house has said the bill that came out of

[unintelligible] it was 20%. it will be some range of something. that is a very important part of it because that sends a long- term signal. all the things we are doing on the recovery act money to promote clean energy, all the things are part of the complete package. all the things with energy efficiency, but you also need to send a long-term signal that says to a company, if you're thinking of investing in a power plant, it could be $1 billion to $10 billion. that signals what will happen five years from now, but 30 years from now, and will influence deeply those decisions.

having said that, the administration made it clear that we have to be sensitive to certain sections of the u.s. you can that move to an energy efficient grain economy overnight, it takes time. -- energy-efficient green economy. there is a lot of capital. they want to know what is the signal? once congress says this is going to be it, working with the president, i think a lot of investments will be made. >> "washington journal continues. host: harry is a public policy professor at georgetown university. welcome to the program.

last week you had an article about time fort of federal jobs program. why is now that time? -- time for a federal jobs program. guest: the unemployment rate is over 10% now. it is much higher in some states than others. that will not go away anytime soon even as the economy starts to recover the unemployment rate will start to rise for a while. all expectations that this recovery will be gradual. we will have high unemployment for many years to come. we think some direct action on top of all the things the administration has already done, the stimulus package, we think we need targeted assistance into the labour market to create more

jobs to release some pain. host: you write the federal government should focus on a new jobs initiative on linking low- wage workers with publicly valued projects monitored by states. they will produce public goods like bike paths, repairs and whether rescission for low- income housing, home care assistance for elderly americans. past americans is -- past experiences show how to make these programs work. allow competition so only the best projects get funded and pull the plug on projects that are not meeting their production targets. this sort of sounds -- for those who are old enough to remember the fdr in ministration, like a wpa proposal. -- remember the fdr

administration. guest: sometimes these things are mixed quality depending on the administration. in healthy labor markets we'd probably do not want to go down this road, when -- but when the private sector is not producing jobs, we have to try different things. that seems to be a promising idea for generating more jobs. host: the numbers on the screen to call. if you want to send us an e- mail, the address is journal @cspan.org. what are the factors behind the huge jobless rate, especially

among young african-american men? host: gun people always have higher unemployment rates -- young people always have higher unemployment rates. they have less work experience, their attachment to the labour market is more tenuous. four young african-americans it is even worse. their unemployment rate is over 30%, but even the best of times young, unskilled workers have high rates of unemployment and disconnection from the labour market. we have a long-term problem made more severe in this downturn. a long problem of people not graduating with high-school, not getting connected to the labour market through technical education of the kind we used to

have more of. all of these things produce a very high level of disconnection among low income youth who never seriously connect to the labour market, they have persistent poverty for most of their lives, including episodes of incarceration. while we keep our eye on the short-term problems we also have to think about the long-term issues, and make greater investments in these young people. host: what would you like to see the government do to get more young african-american males into the job market? how much of the responsibility for the government is this? guest: there is the short-term problem for the next five years with the recession, and things like public service employment programs makes sense. then there is the long-term problem had will be with us.

all lot of these folks don't even show up on this official numbers. for them is a multi-tiered strategy of investing in skills early in life, getting them to graduate from high school, provide other options, and deal with these terrible problems of huge numbers of young men with criminal records. it is almost impossible for them to connect to the labour market, people with child support, and come up with policies. i think only the federal government -- the states are strapped in many ways. they can provide guidance and incentives in the but general support for policies. host: our first call comes from john from our republican line. caller: how are you?

guest: good, how are you. caller: a little tough in detroit. the one thing i cannot understand is the holding up of the money to be spent on infrastructure. we had the problem with the faa, and we know that system has been decrepit for a while. there are 500,000 bridges in this country that should be inspected and properly attended to, and there are larger projects which take time for design, but the fact that you can begin to think about doing things and have engineers look at what needs to be done and preparing contracts. caterpillar tractor added jobs and everything else down the chain. we put more money into baghdad.

it makes me sick we cannot put an equal amount of money into this country more quickly. guest: i agree with you about quite a bit of that. the unemployment rate in the michigan is horrendous. detroit is a place with severe long-term problems because of the auto industry. there is a lot of money being allocated to this issue. the jobs program is almost $800 billion. it does take time for that money to be spent. this system has a certain amount of capacity to spend the money very quickly. there is always a trade-off to make sure that the money does not get wasted you need accountability, oversight from the federal government. it takes time to line the

contractors up, so there is that trade off between doing it quickly and doing it well. i am sure there are delays that should not happen, but at the same time the trade-off is making sure there is the capacity in the system to handle the money and make sure is going to the right places. we hope those delays will not continue indefinitely. host: next up is micheal on our democratic line from florida. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to know if we are going to spend this money shouldn't we not know where we are spending at? i speak of the stimulus money we have spent, we spent it in districts that do not have jobs created. i am a democrat and i believe we need to do this, especially in

florida with our unemployment rate at over a 11%. i have been out since may and cannot find anything. what would you recommend we spend it on and coordinate this program so we know where the money is going and it is spent in the right way? guest: there is this tension between spending money quickly, and you are highlighting the opposite problem. it is spent in the way there is not good planning and accountability. if you look at the stimulus package it lays out money for many projects. it has not spread the money out among the different projects. it has tried to spend it all in one thing. you don't have the capacity to spend it quickly, so the money was spread out on a lot of competing needs.

there will always be a, a, -- there will always be some slippage and some waste. you need to have the money spent well where the infrastructure is needed, all kinds of weather is asian, -- all kinds of weatherizationa dn child-care needs. it takes time to set up oversight mechanisms to make sure money is not wasted. the government is trying to do its best to minimize that waste. my argument is we need to do all of that and more, given how that the unemployment rate is. host: next up is matthew from sanford mandell, california. -- san fernando. caller: i am dealing with

frustration towards the outcome for unemployment. your average selling living where they live -- your average civilian. my last job was in 2007. i have been constantly searching for employment but it is very difficult. as for the resources available, that is extremely difficult. the fact of getting unemployment and not having the record in the past to be qualified for unemployment benefits. and the same instance of having to file for gr pay and maybe food stamps, because that is the motion i had to take recently.

this is the hardest time and i am only 27-years old. host: have you been applying for specific types of jobs, or anything you can find? caller: i am a small-business owner. i am struggling to get funded. it has to do with environmental agricultural. i am trying to put that out there and generate that on my own. as for general employment, i am currently seeking [unintelligible] i wish it would be easier to find some funding and make sure it gets to the right people in the right aspect of being looked at and research about that person. host: we will move on. your response to matthew's

plight. guest: we have an unemployment insurance system in this country. in good times it does not cover enough workers. there are some people that legitimately should not get covered, people who quit their jobs. right now the unemployment insurance system covers 60% of the unemployed, which is better than 35%. the state's vary a lot in terms of how easy they make it to access this money. i am glad we have things like food stamps and other benefits to supplement the system. i think matthew is talking about legitimate issues. there are issues about jobs and what the safety net looks like. when you are in the middle of this long-term downturn, it is

good we keep extending unemployment insurance. we are at the point when lots of folks are about to expire. that is another system that needs reform. when you are at 10% unemployment there are parts of the system that are in adequate. hopefully during good times we can reform that system. host: on the front page of the "washington post" was an article about blacks hit hard by the economy. they are disproportionately affecting men and young people. no discussion of jobs in the technology sector or aerospace. are those jobs just gone away or is this step one getting the retail and those jobs up and

going, and then step two is those other jobs? guest: the article correctly highlights that there are some sectors hit severely. this downturn did begin with housing and the collapse of real estate and construction. it spread to durable manufacturing and then to retail. the technology sector is one of many. virtually every sector has taken a beating, so it has to spread. this is highlighting the most severe drops and the groups hardest hit are the ones that benefit from employment in those sectors. host: our next call comes from our republican line. good morning, charles. caller: it is kind of early out here. i have a question.

the current situation is that we are not doing anything to create any meaningful jobs. for example, in california we have a program that is stated to be 50% fraud so the only thing we can work on is trying to put people in jail rather than doing the job correctly, making a different in air quality. we are being destructive there and putting money in to create jobs without benefit. guest: i am not familiar with that example so i cannot comment on that. i think there are cases where -- we faced a very severe downturn and there was pressure to get the stimulus package alps and there will be some slippage from time to time.

people will say this is not how it should have been. we hope those examples are minimal. the more severe concern was with the unemployment rate in the double-digit level, getting the money out the door quickly but trying to target those groups that need assistance the most, low income young people, minorities, and lot of white folks who have lower education levels, trying to target assistance to them. we are doing the best we can to get the money out the door fast. host: our next call comes from ohio on the democratic line. caller: good morning. there has been a lot of talk about the reasons for

unemployment, especially african-americans. a few friends of mine have and talking about this and we have concluded it is institutional unemployment, because african- americans have been historically unemployed since slavery. when you look at what has happened, everybody had a job but now that there are wages and benefits attached, african- americans have been historically unemployed. some friends of ours have been talking about the companies that were given tax cuts to outsource during the bush administration. are those tax cut still in place and is that the reason why our jobs are going overseas?

the third aspect of this would- be most companies and jobs are run by republicans. the gop is in the pocket of corporations and businesses, and we see an extreme downturn in the number of jobs because of the outsourcing. it looks as if the republicans and businesses want to punish people for voting for obama. guest: this caller has raised a number of important issues. yes, historic fleet there have been very serious employment issues. -- historic lly there have been serious employment issues for african-americans. some of that history is a distinct. a lot of things have evolved a

long way since slavery and there are some issues relating to quality of education and early labour market experience. discrimination is still there. it calls for a comprehensive response and effort aimed at young people starting early on to improve basic skills, connect them to the labor markets at an early age. there are good jobs that often go begging when the economy is stronger than is now. we have millions of young men in prison on any given day when the economy and employers have a hard time finding plumbers and welders. you raised another set of issues about sending jobs overseas. number one, those numbers still

are not big enough to account for most of the job loss that we have. much bigger factors are here in the u.s., technology, workplace reorganization, but we do live in a global economy. the global economy presents much cheaper and higher quality prices for american consumers, including low-income consumers. we do send some jobs overseas. the economy has to be able to create new jobs to replace them. that is a better way to frame the issue of. is the plainfield level between overseas competitors and those craving john's here? is our economy creating the jobs that people need, and do young people have the experience to connect to those jobs when they are available?

we will not eliminate globalization, we don't want to create excessive incentives for them to go overseas, but we need to think about what will we replace these jobs with at home? will our young people be able to access those jobs with the right skills? host: the unemployment figures by the numbers can be seen in a chart by the "washington post." for the time between october 2009 and september 2008, the rising unemployment to 30.5% for african-americans, their unemployment rate is 19.1% for those who are young. guest: young people always have higher unemployment rates, as do african-americans, but in a

downturn young people of all backgrounds are very vulnerable. they are often the first to be let go and the last to be rehired. the numbers are especially severe for high-school dropouts, young african-americans. even in the best of times for african-americans is 20%. there are problems unique to low-income folks. we need to set policies to deal with these issues. host: harry is a professor from georgetown university. previously he has worked as chief economist at the u.s. labor department and economics professor at michigan state. the administration has a jobs summit coming up. what do you want to see coming out that will address this problem quickly?

guest: i would like to see them come up with a plan for another effort. a lot of things are under way and a lot of the stimulus money has not been spent. some callers raise the issue of making sure that money gets out quickly and effectively. i think we do need more, so i am hoping the administration will develop another plan that is well-targeted that create a lot of bang for the block. -- a lot of bang for the buck. we can get some job creation going relatively quickly to alleviate some of the pain. host: billy on our independent line. caller: i just want to tell you that i have been here for 50 years. this is the worst unemployment i

have ever seen. if the federal government were to open up the building tomorrow that said come work for minimum wage and we will pay u $8 an hour and at the end of the day -- the line would be from here to as far as you could see. here is an idea. i was wondering what do you think the chances are of any [unintelligible] what are the chances that the federal government trying to work seamlessly with big government? we have all this ruin the acres of land that would be the perfect area for a new solar farm. it is already close to the grid system.

it could leave the building the machines that built the solar panels and wind turbines, and train high-school to work seamlessly to work with junior colleges to provide a meaningful job for people? guest: he has correctly pointed out how severe the situation is. it is the worst since the 1930's, but you raised a lot of good ideas, but this highlights the tension. creating the solar power project you talk about -- there are efforts underway paid for by the stimulus bill that creates those green jobs, but all the things you laid out create jobs. creating college courses, certifications, that takes time

to set up and for people to get the skills they need. there is tension between getting the money out the door quickly and taking all those steps people need. we will need to make our best effort. we will make some of that effort with the stimulus bill. i would like to see more public service employment where the money goes to the localities to make their best judgment about whether is those projects or others that require less in the way of training so we can get them up and running quickly. doing a quickly and yet providing the kinds of jobs that do something that society values, that is a lot of balls to juggle at once. we need to make our best effort. host: there is an article called

"stacking the deck against the kids." we have an opportunity to do right by these youngsters. outside of the government, what needs to be done in order to increase employment among young people? guest: part of is that -- part of it has to do with what happens in the schools. you need to start with early childhood programs to get everybody up to the starting line. there is a lot more we can do and early years like improving skill acquisition. in high school years, making sure people see multiple paths. high-quality career and technical education. people need to seymour pathways to success and we need to do a better job of connecting people

with the work force system. our work force system has traveled in a lot of ways. it is very fragmented from schools. you need a system of schooling and work force development connected to the employer community that provides effective pipelines for young people to get the skills they need. it is a big job and we should be doing a better job on all of it. host: the last call from some -- last call comes from florida. caller: that was a very good point you made on the pipeline and connecting the jobs market to the educational market. one comment i would like to make is i feel people talk about how we will create jobs. it seems really macro-oriented.

with the new administration only having 10% of the cabinet with business experience, they sometimes forget the basics are to create jobs, especially in the private sector, a person deciding we have a way to make a profit. we have been on the bandwagon the last 10 months about how that profit is. when you demonize profit, jobs go away. entrepreneurs do not get up in the morning and say how well i create a job? they wonder how they can make money, how can i provide security for my family? johns also created because they need people to help them do things they want to do. -- jobs are also created.

i never hear a economists talk about profit and how important that is for opportunity. guest: scott raises a number of important issues. during a downturn everybody suffers, including small business owners. profit will take a beating during a downturn. in the short term the best thing we can do is to stimulate the economy. over the long term, it does not make sense to demonize profit. corporate profits as a percentage of the economy are at the highest level they have been in decades. we don't have a problem on shortage of profits but we do have a problem of prosperity being widely shared. business people will only create jobs if they see profit

opportunities. they have had quite enormous opportunities. we don't want to be demonizing profit, but we want to make sure the gains of the economy are widely shared. in the past while profit was soaring, earnings were either stagnant or declining. we want businesses to create good jobs and can make short workers can get the skills to get those jobs. host: thank you very much for being on the program this morning. we will take a short break and then we will have open phones. a chance for you to weigh in on items in the news. we want to give you a look at the past week through the eyes of the nation's editorial cartoonists.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: open phones for the next 10 minutes. your chance to weigh in on things you have heard us talk about. the numbers are on the screen. you can also send us an e-mail. i have not seen any e-mails

today. i have also not seen many tweets. indeed "new york times" the justice department advises them to pay a corn for its work. the justice department -- to pay acorn. they should pay them for services provided under contract before congress banned the government from providing money. the article says since 1994, acorn has received about $53 million in federal aid, much of its grants from housing and urban development, or provide in services relating to affordable housing. our phone call comes from north carolina on the democratic line.

go ahead. you have the line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to speak on something they were talking about a minute ago about unemployment among minorities and high-school dropouts. i believe if every high-school should have at least one high school -- every school system should have won a high-school that is trade-oriented. you have people who cannot do it, they drop out of school and go to a fast food service where the pay is minimum-wage. they get frustrated and they take to the streets. it would help the person, it

would help the city and the country if we had people who came out of high school able to go on a productive job and do something worthwhile. i believe if we had won high school in every school system that was trade-oriented based on whatever was needed in that area. host: dan on our republican from texas. caller: i wanted to mention as it goes to implement, that things are more optimistic in texas. we have a number of large scale infrastructure-related projects. the only downside to that is all of the trouble-ready jobs -- all the shovel-ready jobs, at the end is an illegal alien.

if you are really serious pack up the car and head to texas, but first change your name. host: an australian leader will visit obama. he should ask them for more troops in afghanistan. the australian prime minister will visit the white house as president obama begins a week in which he will announce his war strategy in afghanistan and will appeal to allies for more help. the administration officials said much of the discussion will focus on whether australia would contribute more troops. they indicated then rudd will be the first of several allied leaders obama intends to meet with in the coming weeks. the president will make that announcement on tuesday at the

military academy at west point. we will have coverage here on c- span. connecticut, mark on our line for independents. turn down your radio or television. host: good morning. i would like to talk about unemployment. i want to tell america good morning. last year on thanksgiving i called to talk about unemployment. all i want to say is the president and government need to create a universal work force. every american can get job through that. people need to call and say we want along for universal work. -- we want a lwaw for

universal work. host: is media manipulation worthy of [unintelligible] what better setting than an audience of military cadets to project obama as the reluctant war hero, because of circumstances is forced to commit many to award not of his choosing. -- commit many to a war. caller: i wanted to talk about creating jobs by ending the war. the money and sending it overseas is wasted money because we went in under false pretense. if they end the war and spend that money over here, more jobs will be created.

for bush to have started the war under false pretense -- we need the money here. the war needs to end. it has cost us $250,000 per year for each true. if you add that up, that is a lot. host: louisiana on our line for republicans. caller: on the unemployment, i remember in 2006 when the argument was dispersing the profits of the corporations, that they suggested when the democrats took control the first thing they did was raise the minimum wage. if they are not willing to

recognize that that creates a disincentive to hire people at the entry level, that is small businesses. for them to say we need more government programs and even you compared it to the great depression during fdr. that took 10 years to get out of. the answer is not more government, it ought to be less. it ought to prove that what they did was wrong. it made things worse. host: kevin, are you with me? let's move on to the "baltimore sun." russia and china joined the u.s. and european allies in formally rebuking iran about its nuclear program on a 25-3 vote.

the board of governors adopted a german-drafted resolution condemning iran for its nuclear program. irvington, new jersey, jonathan on our democratic line. caller: i was calling in because i was watching your program awhile ago. this gentlemen try to say we have high quality goods from overseas. that is just ridiculous. i work for the [unintelligible] we buy materials that are coming from china, and some of these materials are so standard -- every day i work with these materials and i complained to my superiors. i don't know where to go with this information. for instance, i went to work and the lady told me my toilet is

broken. host: have you talked to your congressman? caller: i have spoken to my congressman's yet, but i hope i get a chance to do that. host: let's move on to dallas, texas on our independent line. caller: forget my voice, i had an operation on my throat. host: are you doing all right? caller: i am, i appreciate getting to speak to you. [unintelligible] almost 60% of white people make [unintelligible] there is such a gap in terms of income with the white male and the black male. don't cut me out here. the problem is where i come from, if you want to work for

someone, go get a job. they don't instill a new create a job. i am having a troubling time. i changed my life by going to the penitentiary. i got a financial advisers license and had a hard time to get people like me to invest in the stock market. now that i have moved on i am trying to grow my business legitimately. it is like get a job, go work for someone, and [unintelligible] i want to help my community to overcome struggles to create jobs. we have to look to ourselves and stop looking for people to give us jobs. we have to be able to have

opportunities for entrepreneurs like myself to create jobs instead of looking for handouts. we have the capital to create jobs. host: i don't want to cut you off but one earlier caller talked about not necessarily thinking about creating jobs but making a profit. in making that probably will eventually create jobs. caller: capitalism is only good for people who have access to capital. more people from the community are going to look at it from the standpoint of how can they [unintelligible] there is just no support. if i wanted to break laws, people support that. host: we are going to have to leave it there. we will take a short break, and then a discussion on the u.s. debt.

>> on this vote the yays are 60 . the motion is agreed to. >> with that both the senate moves the health care bill to the floor starting monday. follow the entire debate and how the bill would affect access to medical care, abortion and

medicare live on our companion network, c-span2. american icons, three nights of original documentaries on the iconic homes of the three branches of american government continues. tonight at 8:00 p.m., the capital. the architecture and history of one of the most symbolic structures. tonight at 8:00 p.m. on c-span. get your own copy. order online's at c-span.org /store. >> "washington journal" continues. host: bob bixby is from a nonprofit program. this story in the "los angeles

times." with the national debt topping $12 trillion, at the white house estimates the tab will exceed $700 billion a year in 2019 even if annual budget deficits strength drastically. how did we get to $12 trillion in debt? guest: $1 trillion at a time. probably making unwise policy decisions. part of that is a result of running large budget deficits that accumulate. about $7.5 trillion is because of that. the rest of that is money the government owes itself, which is putting money in the social

security trust fund. that is added on. it adds up quickly. host: when they talk about the debt will exceed $700 billion in 2019, what does that mean? guest: think of it as a national credit card. if you're running up credit card bills you have to pay interest on that debt. the interest that we have paid is like the interest on the national credit card, it is an awful lot of money. roughly on the size of the wars in iraq and afghanistan. this is an amount of money the government does not budget every year, it is just the result of running budget deficits. what the real problem is is that over the next 10 years if we

keep running budget deficits like this, that is when you get this explosion of interest. it is like if you are paying your minimum payments on the credit card, the meter keeps running and essentially it is the interest that kills you. even in the next 10 years interest costs will skyrocket to a problematic level. host: it sounds like the administration will have to take drastic measures in order to start paying off this debt. what do you suggest? guest: i think one step up at a time. the first thing we need to do is gradually get back to a balanced budget so that the accumulating debt is not as much of a problem. we can stabilize the interest payments. that will probably not happen anytime soon because the deficit is so large and we still had a

slow economy, so there is some question about the timing. i think that you look beyond 2010 and looked to 2011, we need to get in place a plan for bringing that deficit under control. that is the only way you can begin to bring the debt under control. host: 4 most of us bringing our personal debt under control either means making more money or spending less money. in the case of the government, it means spending less money or raising taxes. guest: you just describe the political agenda from hell. politicians like to promise things and don't like to promise tax increases to pay for it. we have gotten far away from any sense of fiscal responsibility. the kicker here is that people

about my age are on the verge of qualifying for social security and medicare. it is not a cyclical problem we have had here like in the past, where you get into a slow economy and run up big debts, and then the war ends and the economy picks up and the problems are self correcting packs -- self-correcting. we have these big budget deficits. when the economy recovers in one year or two, we are on the verge of the baby boomers' retirement. that is a major expense that will make it more difficult to bring these big deficits under control even in a strong economy. host: you were talking about the cycle of debt and prosperity. part of that had to do with

wars, it does not look like we are going to, even if we get out of iraq we still have the war in afghanistan. that is not going away anytime soon. members on capitol hill are suggesting a war tax, among them is david obey. what you think about the war tax? guest: it is a very responsible suggestion. for the first time in our history we have of war we put entirely on the national credit card. normally what happens is there is a mix of borrowing, becausewars are very expensive. there has been a reduction in other spending and tax increases so you don't put the entire burden of the war on future generations. we have done that with every other war but not this one.

i think it would be a good idea to remind people that wars are expensive. host: we are talking about the u.s. debt witte executive director of the concord coalition. the numbers are on the screen. those numbers will be up on the screen throughout the conversation. give us a call. talk about how that affected the economy before, and why are we -- why we are not relying on that? guest: it is a budgetary turn that stands for pay as you go. -- it is a budgetary term.

it came around in 1990. one of the things they decided to do was to have this pay as you go rule, which meant any new entitlement program or expansion of an existing program had to be paid for either by raising taxes or by cutting another in thailand program. .

paygo existed through 2002, roughly 12 years, and was allowed to expire. congress has reinstituted parliamentary rules and the house and senate to reinstitute paygo. some of us think it should be put into a statutory form where you have a stronger mechanism of control it helped bring the deficit under control. it is not all you need, by any means. paygo says let's stop the bleeding but we have lost a lot of blood. it is an important first step. host: kentucky is next hour democrats line. caller: we are talking about the deficit and everything. president obama is planning on

sending so many people over there. if we would just train them and not wait two years but get out of there as soon as they get trained and get them back here, i think that would help so much host: we will have to pay to train them. caller: yes, but that is better than staying in three more years. guest: we are on a fiscal wake- up tour. i do that with associates from the brookings institute and others. i mention that because we often get that question. we emphasize the growing cost of medicare and medicaid and social security which is the big three entitlement programs. we often get asked why don't we talk more about defense spending because that is right in

people's face. the reason is that i think there are substantial savings we can get from the defense department, in particularly reducing war costs. when you look at the magnitude of the budget and the projected growth, is really in the programs that people like and are popular. defense spending is up but does not projected to keep going up at a rate that would be driving of the death. we can get savings by drawing down troops and ending the war. we are in a situation where we will have to go far beyond that. host: claremore, okla., an airline for republicans. -- on our line for republicans. caller: i encourage everyone to google ron called for the spending problem has been a

problem because people in government keep spending when we're out of money and we are in so badly that we are in debt. we should stop all foreign spending. we should stop will spend it all together. we should look for ways to limit government. we should get out of the war altogether and not train foreign troops. host: sorry to cut you off. guest: the caller mentioned to the extent to which we are borrowing from abroad. we are borrowing all this money and jewelry borrowing this from? we are increasingly borrowing it from foreign lenders. more than 50% of our publicly- owned debt is now owned abroad. that is not necessarily a bad

thing. it is good that people want to invest their money here. it presents a certain vulnerability. we are dependent upon other countries to finance our deficits. they may find that they want to invest someplace else. they may have problems. they may want to cause mischief, who knows? it is a certain vulnerability and access as mortgage on future national interest because they will get the benefit of those investments. it is something to be concerned about to the extent where we are allowing on foreign lending. host: the caller mentioned foreign lending in terms of foreign aid. how much of our economy or the u.s. budget actually goes toward assistance of foreign countries and how much can we save if we were to cut that altogether?

guest: it is about 1% of the budget. it is a very small amount. many people say we should cut foreign aid but it really is a miniscule amount relative to the size of the problem. host: tom, in albany, new york, on airline for independences. caller: i may displaced manufacturer. the question i have his -- what a small or moderate tareq do these days. i know what happened the 1930's but thisñi wouldñr be as revenu- as a revenue source host: what would you want to tax? caller: imports across the board. gues&$ probably it would not

raise a whole lot of money. we used to rely entirely on tariffs back in the old days. this is back in the 1800's. it probably would not raise a significant amount of money but it depends on what the rate would be and what would be taxed. there are always disincentives that that would discourage imports and drive up the cost of imports. that would have an affect on the economy. that would prompt other countries to raise tariffs on our exports. does not clear that we would end up any better, frankly, if we took on that strategy. host: fairfax, va., on our line for democrats. caller: thank you for your insights this morning, mr. bakes be. -- mr bixby.

my republicans are looking at the incentives as not genuine. some of us felt it was a monumental achievement during the clinton administration. when a lot of the war funding was not included in the budget during the bush administration, that was a great concern. menem -- many of us felt the budget numbers were not true at that point because there was a so much off the books. my question is -- can president obama -- what measures were taken in the clinton administration to achieve that surplus that president obama might take now to reverse this trend of debt and achieve a similar surplus? were there unique circumstances or is it possible for president obama to do this? guest: that is a really good question.

when you look at the history of the 1990's, it teaches lessons. when president clinton took office, there was a large budget deficit and people were concerned about it. that is when the concord coalition began in 1992 as a result of concern about rising deficits and debt. what happened was a couple of things -- one was a continuation of the paygo rules we talked about and caps on congressional spending. these are programs to go through the annual appropriations process. the clinton administration introduced a deficit-reduction plan. that was their major initiative in 1993. it was a mix of spending cuts and tax increases. it was controversial at the time. it was enacted with no votes to spare, as people will recall parel.

deficits begin -- deficits did begin to come down and there was another agreement in 1997 that the clinton administration reached with the republican congress which was the balanced budget act. the republican congress contributed to the favorable results. they worked together. this was after some very tense times where the government shut down in 1995 but after that, they actually came together. this combination of abiding by the paygo rules, discretionary spending caps, and having a sense of fiscal discipline helped. i should mention that defense spending can then quebec. -- came down quite a bit. while we can get something from the, it will not come down by as

much as it did then simply because it came down from a much higher level part we cannot win the cold war twice. we don't have that circumstance going for us. host: bob bixby has been the executive director of the conquered coalition and has held other positions with the coalition from 1992-1999. he has practiced law and served as -- chief of staff of the court of appeals in virginia. back to the phones, tacoma, washington, on airlines for republicans, go ahead. caller: i would like to thank you for commenting on when the last gal called them about the budget surplus that the clinton administration had and the fact that the congress spends the money. the president does not spend the

money. i have heard this stated so many times from the left as to how there was a surplus. the republicans created a surplus for us. the fundamental problem is taxes. i do not expect a large part of the american public to understand that. most of the american public does not pay taxes. until we get to a point where everybody is paying the same ratio, whether that is a multi millionaire or a person at mcdonald's, until we get to a point in this country or the left cannot use class warfare and raise warfare against the system, we will never straighten out. i have a question about the war costs in iraq or as the interest that we spend that this president borrowed from china. i have heard that the war cost month. i have also heard that the interest on bellona that this president did for the stimulus

is somewhere around $30 billion every four days. can you comment on that? what is the difference between the interest that we pay on the stimulus versus what we were paying in iraq? guest: i don't know what those numbers are. that sounds a bit high -- did he say $30 billion per day? host: yes, it was in that range. guest: that strikes me as impossible. the entire stimulus was $787 billion. i don't think that is quite right. we did not get here and say this is president obama's fault.

it is his problem at the moment. we should not say it is president bush's fault for he certainly contributed. we were very critical of some of those decisions he made. there are lots of things that went into this. it is the failure to pay for war but more importantly, it is the failure to pay for our social insurance programs or using surpluses from social security that we should have been using to pay down the debt but we are finding other government problems with it and cutting taxes more than we should have. there are many things that would into this. it is not the fault of one party or the other or one president or another. host: in an op-ed piece from upi.com, he quotes you as saying they government is on a teaser rates. guest: that as an analogy that

people can i get away -- identify with. the teaser rates are what banks would offer people to sign up for a mortgage. no interest or very low interest for the last -- first couple of months or years and you think you can afford that and after the teaser rate expires, the rate goes way up. they do that with credit cards and, as well and people get trapped in that. the government is borrowing huge sums of money at low interest rates because the interest rates are very low right now. we are really borrowing this huge amount of money at these low teaser rates. when the economy recovers and interest rates begin to go back up to more normal levels, we will have to refinance that date at higher rates. the interest rate in the next 10 years will explode. host: next up, is louisiana, on

our independent line, go ahead. caller: he talked about the baby boomers coming up and we're fixing to have a big debt from that. nobody ever talks about a solution for social security. over the last 20 years, there has been a lot of baby boomers that have become rich. we will still give them social security checks when they turn 65. that is not right. when they are wealthy, they should not get that. you also talk about the money and the war, $10 billion per month is what we were spending in iraq. how much of that is going to kbr, blackwater, halliburton, all those companies. it has been a way to take well with the american people and give it did to these corporations.

guest: we suggested a means for so security but for all federal entitlement programs that was a proposal we made back in the 1990's. i think that one of the solutions to our long-term deficit problem is going to be some sort of increase in entitlement testing so that wealthier people do not get as much. these are social insurance programs. people pay into them so they should get something back because you don't want to turn them into welfare programs. there is a little bit about that happens now, social security is a progressive benefit formula so that lower income people get a better return on their social security contribution.

one of the elements of social security is going to be a change in the formula so that becomes even more progressive. perhaps in medicare, we will ask upper-income people to pay more of their premiums. host: this headline says white house ways a new panel for the deficit. a bipartisan commission is being considered as the administration hoped to show resolve on this issue. what should be discussed in this administration? who should be in the broom? guest: i think everything should be on the table. all interest should the debt represented in the room. i think some sort of commission is a good one provided it is serious. you don't want another study commission. we don't need that. we need a commission that will take action aborte.

you need leadership from both parties and something the commission will produce recommendations. also, the american people need to be involved. we do a lot of work outside of washington. we are finishing a project now with graduate leaders in seven cities around the country. they will come to washington to make their report. they are like little mini- commissions. they have been studying the issue is part of the american people are very interested in this issue. they are willing to make some hard choices. host: i'm sure you can read more about that on your website concordcoalition.org. caller: thank you for your

service packet for the information you are giving the american people i want to talk about a couple of things -- the whole problem began with ronald reagan's administration. $1 trillion defense budget -- build up. that is when the military- industrial complex began to take over. you know what i am talking about. the spending is outrageous. they still don't have control over these weapons systems, as you know. then it got to the point where what happened was when you talk about both the wars in afghanistan and iraq, those are supplemental. those are not even part of the budget. most people don't even know that. is that not correct? guest: the obama administration has put them on the budget. one problem was -- i think there

will be more supplemental spending so you are right. there have been supplemental spending. that is one of the problems is that it has been off-budget. it made the budget numbers look better than they were. when people report the deficit, that does not include the war. you cannot fudge that when you look at the bottom line. host: back you very much for being on the program this morning. guest: you're welcome, thanks for having me. host: the u.s. embassy in china says three americans are dead in zimbabwe after a cargo plane crashed at the shanghai international airport. a spokesperson says three americans are confirmed dead and a fourth american is injured. he does not to know the injured person's condition. we will give you more on that as we get it.

we will take a short break and when we come back, we'll talk about homegrown terrorism with steven emerson. we'll talk about the somali case that highlights the specter of radicalization. you can read about that in the wednesday edition of "the wall street journal per-q." >> 3/5 of the senate voting, the motion is agreed to. >> with that boat, the senate moves its health care bill to the floor starting monday and

through december. follow the entire debate and how the bill would address health care. that is live on our companion network, c-span 2, the only network that brings you the senate, gavel-to gavel. american icons available on three dvd is. 's go beyond the velvet rope sub public tours into the rarely seen spaces of the white house, america's most famous hundred explore the history, art, and architecture of the capital, one of america's most symbolic structures. american icons, a three-disc dvd set which is $24.95 plus shipping and handling. order it online at c-span.org /store.

>> the 2010 studentcam contest is here. the top prize is $5,000. create a 5-8 minute video on our country's greatest strengths or the challenges we face. must incorporate cspan programming and must incorporate opposing points of view. winning entries will be shown on c-span. >> "washington journal" continues. host: steve emerson is the head of the investigative arm of terrorism. we have you in to talk about the threat of homegrown terrorism. for the sake of this particular conversation, define homegrown terrorism for us. guest: homegrown terrorism used

to define, right wing, neo-nazi, kkk terrorism. now it is used as a euphemism for the hottest -- jihadist-type terrorism. it is american citizens who carry out attacks of terrorism here in the united states. host: an example of that would be the case of the somalis being written about in many places. we have the article from "the wall street journal per-q. guest: they are writing about a cluster of somali-american kids who emigrated to the united states as refugees. the kids were born here but

unfortunately, because of radicalization, either through the internet or videos or cd's, they became radicalized to the point of joining the al-shabab movement in somalia. they were recruited to carry out attacks in somalia and one carried out a suicide bombing or to carry out attacks in the united states. they were all american-born. host: how much of this threat -- how big is this threat becoming? guest: the somalis-american threat is growing. there are six other american cities where they have young somalis-americans who they believe belonged to al-shabab and are deemed to be a security threat. there's active recruitment in kansas city, columbus, ohio, san

diego, in california, several other cities for this a terrorist organization. this is not the only group involved in terms of home grown terrorism but one of the major groups. host: we are talking with steam -- steve emerson about homegrown terrorism. the numbers are on your screen. by this definition, would you categorize what happened at fort hood as a case of a home run terrorism? guest: absolutely. that was a case of a homegrown terrorism. it was not externally directed. it may have been influenced by a yemeni cleric who used to live in the united states with home the perpetrator had contact

with. he procured the firearms. he let superiors know that infidels should have their throats slit. he became a full-fledged jihadist here in the united states from seemingly not having a religious background host: in "the new york times," they write that the gunmen's extremism was so obvious that they identify e- mails between him and a radical muslim cleric yet decided against a full investigation. army intelligence also did not follow up. the fbi is the one with a track record of missteps going back four years. how much responsibility do you feel falls on the fbi and american intelligence for the growth of this homegrown terrorism, particularly the case of the somalis or the case of

the shooting at fort hood? guest: the responsibility lies and whether they can stop them or whether they are and responsible for the growth. the growth is largely due to the fact that there are islamic groups in the united states today that actually foment and instigate homegrown terrorism and convince their followers that there is a war against islam. that's what led major hasan to his actions. host: our first call comes from memphis, tenn., on our line for democrats, go ahead caller: i don't think this is a valid point. i think he hatched this idea to be afraid of islam. i am moslem and i was christian at one time. going into the 1960's, we were

called terrorists. this is a plot to keep people divided and to choose another scapegoat for wars and hatred and death machines. this is all it is. we want peace among people. president obama wants peace among all people. you have people like him who want a war going because there are so few of him, they have to keep the rest of us shedding each other's blood around the world so they can take over and continue to do the evil they do. guest: i guess you will not be a donor to my organization. the facts speak for themselves. i am talking about major hasan, who carried out an attack and somalis who were going to carry out attacks. there are al qaeda and jihadist sympathizers in the military and other parts of society. you cannot deny that.

is not a plot by the united states. host: a caller from our independent line. caller: you talked about how the homegrown terrorism was right wing, neo-nazi, that type of stuff. are they looking into any connections between these moslems and neo-nazi groups in america? maybe they play on the hatred of the jew-thing as a way to recruit white, english as big americans who can get into areas easier than a moslem could? is this a possibility or is the government looking into this? guest: the government has looked into the possible connections between moslem extremists and right-wing extremists.

they have not found any in the united states other than interconnections on their web sites where they post articles that are equally anti-semitic or anti-government. in europe, there has definitely been linkages between a neo-nazi groups and moslem extremists. i know also on montrose avenue and washington d.c., there used to be a man who came over from switzerland who was a neo-nazi- islamic extremists. he combined his love for the of that letter with his love for the ayatollah khomeini. it is a totally unlikely allies and that's why it does not work. it is not operational. host: our next call comes from columbus, ohio, on our line for democrats. caller: thank you for taking my call.

is your organization going to investigate any possible ties with terrorists and the hip-hop generation. n? the potential there would be explosive in america. host: let me ask you why the hip-hop generation, as you say, would be more susceptible to the leanings of a jiahd organization? caller: i think they are extremely vulnerable. you have the hip-hop generation

who has the elevated mail munchies mo. -- male machismo. that would feed into a muslim ideology that would feed into this. host: the islamic groups are not the only ones that subjugate women. caller: that's true but they do. i have worked as a substitute teacher. i have seen children of homegrown terrorists in the schools. guest: it is an interesting point you raise bought the largest and most successful conversion rates for jihadists happened to be in the prison system today in terms of converts that are equally black and white who convert to islam, a radical form of islam, and

then carry out acts of terrorism and become jihadsists after they leave. the largest category four converts and your pappas to be between the ages of 21 and 29. it does not mean that they are all jihadisst but some of them happen to become that way. some were german, some were swiss, some more scandinavian and some or french bread host: steve emerson is the executive director of the project on terrorism. explain that your organization. guest: this organization was founded in 1995 after i made it on the was aired on public television in 1994. i decided there was really nobody looking into the existence of these subterranean radical islamist groups

operating on american soil. the fbi's hands were tied the fbi needed a credit check before they could investigate. as a former journalist, i had worked at cnn could investigate with more freedom than the fbi could. we began investigating many of these groups that were fronted as civil rights groups or as charitable organizations but were in fact de facto arms of terrorist organizations. we began an organization in 1995 that now has blossomed into an organization of two dozen staff people. host: 1 caller earlier opposed the possibility of an alliance between the hip-hop generation and jihadist groups. we have this message saying that the "l.a. times"right says the

mexican cartel group heightened large groups in cities. are the mexican cartels and jihadist groups emerging? guest: some groups are using middle easterners to come up through texas and mexico under false names. they are in fact connected to hezbollah or hamas or other terrorist groups. host: parkersburg, west virginia, on our line republicans, go aheaäì(lc@&c+ caller: thank you for accepting my call. i agree with what the gentleman says. two very important points need to be made. i am 51-years old. i served in the military. when i was growing up in school, we were taught americanism. we pledge allegiance to the

flag. we are now taking that out of our schools and taking the god of our schools. our kids have nowhere to turn accept board hearing people convert them. we need to enforce our country's laws and we do not need to enforce everybody else's rights. when they come in this country, they accept our laws, our constitution. that is why they come to our country, to get the freedom to do what they want to do. instead, they go against our laws. we are backing them up. we need to enforce the constitution of the united states. we need to put got back in our schools and we need to teach americanism. host: we will leave it there. guest: i have been critical in the past up overextended multiculturalism and what i call the kumbayah generation, can we

all get along. i have been critical of various islamic organizations, rather islamist organizations that say the u.s. is decadent, secular and should be replaced by a shariah-led society. that message leads to recruits among new jihaists. host: our line for independence, go ahead caller: i would like to ask your guest about the domestic support for the irish republican army and our government's pursuit of that terrorist group might aid our cooperation from england and our efforts in afghanistan guest: the irish republican army was largely destroyed because of the

cooperation of irish americans with the fbi to stop the fund- raising -pira which was the fund-raising arm of the ira and the united states for the ira raised millions of dollars and did a lot of gun running and the 1980's. and part of the 1990's that was unfortunately not stopped by the fbi. host: do you see any evidence in your research that american muslims might be taking a lesson from american irish who worked to suppress and destroy the ira? guest: there are some moslems like the one from phoenix, arizona. he has taken on the fundamentalists. i also see that the mainstream

islamist groups in the united states, these are groups that do not ask their populations to cooperate with the fbi. if anything, they say don't talk to the fbi. if the fbi comes and talks to you, get a lawyer first and do not allow them into your house. they tell them not to cooperate, volunteer, and allowed spies into your home. the only way the fbi can get intelligence is with spies inside the mosques. host: our line for democrats is next, go ahead. caller: i have a question for mr. emerson. i want to speak about the symbolic kids that were on that botat. they said they were terrorists.

they were delivering from boats that want to deliver food group these young people board the boats to get the food and medicine for their countrymen. they were not going to harm anybody on the boat. as human beings, we bring nothing up in this world and we take nothing out for it will only take the goodness that we have. guest: i would have to disagree. if we are talking about the same incident of the three somalis who had taken hostage in the british and american captors -- the victims, they were taken for ransom. they were not taken and the medical supplies and food supplies were not taken from the

ship but rather the bodies themselves and there was ultimately going to be transported to somalia itself and held for ransom. i do not think there was an altruist a purpose to the goals of those hijackers. host: next up, new york city, on our line for republicans, go ahead. caller: i am listing to the democrat callers. we have philanthropic terrorists. there was a call that said we had to worry about spreading fear pertaining to islam. i think the case at fort hood is a good example of how we went out of our way to spread fear. the people at fort hood paid for it with their lives. the second point is at the beginning of mr. emerson's segment, he mentioned something

about homegrown terrorists being right-wing people. i agree with a lot of what he says but i wonder how homegrown terrorism gets attributed to the right when we have been dealing with people like bill ayres in this country and domestic terrorist groups like the eco- terrorist groups. how does this become owned by the right until recently? i don't understand that. guest: i take care. validly and i think it is legitimate. there has been left wing homegrown terrorism as well. i should not have exclusively to find it only in terms of the ku klux klan or neo-nazis. it is a valid point. as far as the ideological imprint is concerned, the reality is 13 people paid with their lives because of the political correctness in the u.s. military. i learned yesterday that the supervisor of major hassan at

walter reed hospital wanted to suspend him because he was so aghast at the power point presentation and some of his statements about infidels' but he was overruled by the walter reed committee because of political correctness. that political correctness is hurting us tremendously host: we have they twitter message. as a -- has the cia considered stopping the training and giving military equipment to our future and a maze? is there a connection? do you find there is a connection between people that we have trained as our allies one decade and the next decade, they turn on us? guest: of course, the most scandalous evidence of that was the training of the mujahedin in afghanistan that was supplied weapons and training throughout

the 1980's and early 1990's and it came back to bite us tremendously including the 1993 world trade center bombing and including all the other attacks by al qaeda. host: is there anything going on currently in afghanistan that may come back to bite us? guest: i think history is still out there. the question is how much will the converted taliban who come over to the side of karzai and u.s. forces, how many of them will turned back to the taliban once we leave? host: new york city, on airline for independents, go ahead caller: caller: i want to thank you for understanding that this over campuses on multiculturalism is vulcanizing our country. in new york and queens where there is a large immigrant

population and i am an immigrant myself and i can understand -- and i can understand someone who was to terrorize a country -- and i can't understand how someone can terrorize the country that gives them like. the american mainstream media refer to these pandas arabic people as a holy warriors. that is a perversion of what a jihad is. we did not understand that the mujahedin would come around to terrorize us. they are warriors but they are mercenaries. in america, the political correctness has gone so far to put -- to kill 14 of our troops

and for good. that must come to a stop. this fosters this anti- americanism by not teaching the values of our american culture. i am a dominican immigrant who grew up in america and i am a 4 -- former soldier. parents don't seem to understand that this is breaking up our country through our education which we are funding in new york city. guest: i think the problem is larger than that are there was a speech given by john brennan, who is a home security adviser and said that jihad does not mean holy war but it means peace and love. that was a carryover from the michael chertoff memorandum from 2007 that said they would not use the word jihad. i think that is a tremendous

mistake. if we cannot define the enemy as to who he is, we can never expect to defeat them. the reality is that the apologists for jihad want to define it in terms of spiritual good struggle. it can mean that but for the holy warriors, and they know who they are, jihad means a holy war or struggle to impose islam. host: next up is our line for independence from springfield, virginia. caller: i want to ask about the right wing politicians like dick arfmemey and bill like -- and te like -- are they considered homegrown terrorism? i'm talking about undermining the president of the united states.

they undermine him with their rhetoric they accuse him of being a socialist and accuse him of not being born in the united states. they are undermining the president of the united states that was just elected with an overwhelming majority. i think that those are homegrown terrorists. thehost: what about people who y they are expressing their first amendment right to speech? caller: they say that but it is not homegrown braylon it is all manipulated by the republican party. that is where the difference comes in. guest: i think it would take a different from your point of view. i do not do those people or dissent from the democratic party or the republican party critical of the president or critical of the republicans as

anything but an expression of the first amendment. i am talking about actual axilla violence or people who believe and acts of violence. that is home grown terrorism. host: lewisville, mississippi, on our line for republicans, go ahead. caller: can you hear me? my name is david. we are growing terrorism in the state of mississippi. there was a conspiracy in a civil rights trial and i tried to make me say what they needed to say in a trial. we have to do the right thing. we have to not make the outcome

what we want it to be. we should put all the stuff behind us. we should teach people not to live in the past but to live for the future and try to help everybody to get along and do what's right and go back to the bible. guest: i don't know what case you are referring to but if you are talking about trying civil rights cases, i think the fbi and u.s. government is perfectly entitled and i think it is mandatory they try on proven cases or unfinished cases in the same way that we would not stop to try a terrorist case that happened 25 years ago. this past week, we issued a $25 million reward abu ibrahim who was a master bomb maker in 1982.

that case is still open. all cases that are opened deserve to be resolved. host: north arlington, new jersey, on the lines the independence. caller: i am surprised that you told a caller that this whole thing was not a plot by the u.s. government, this being the whole al qaeda, cia-computer-based file. i know you remember the cia issued visas to shekhikhs to coe here to work for the fbi. they used these guys to recruit fundamentalists here to fight

the soviets. the u.s. government was still using these guys up until september 11. they keep switching between the mujahedin and a taliban prin th. the mujahedin and the taliban are all the same. we are working with the ones that they can convert and control and manipulate. to dismiss the idea that the government is not manipulating and controlling these guys, i know you know about this network. they have done this before part. e. guest: i don't agree with your premise that the u.s. is to put

it -- is behind al qaeda. i don't believe the u.s. is behind these plots. amas salem is a hero who informed to the fbi that stopped a second string of plots in 1993. ali mohammed was a second forces sergeant who infiltrated the u.s. military and was a security net for al qaeda. he was an enemy combatant but not classified as such but sends to long-term imprisonment -- sentenced to long term in prison and in 1998. he was not working for the fbi. he had volunteered to work as a double agents but his main master was al qaeda. host: another twittered message says how can you explain your mission without racial profiling the rest of the muslim population? guest: we can do that easily parted we do not profile perry we do not look at all moslems as terrorists. we would not set all irish are

terrorists. we look at people. we are empirically oriented. we look at the statements made by the islamist groups that we follow. we look of a statement made by the amams or islamic clergymen we follow and decide whether they are a jihadist or they are inciting violence. we would never ever a generalized the entire muslim population. host: fairmont, west virginia, on airline for democrats, go ahead caller: thank you for cspan. i think that the federal government should not be trying to terrorists. i think they jury court to try them because these people come over to kill us like soldiers as if they are invading our country. i don't think the federal government has anything to do with this. our lawyers are out there to make money. these people have money.

they get money from all over the world. they will have the best lawyers that they can get. i think the military should try all these people. obama should stop this and it will go on in new york. he should stop immediately. guest: i agreed that the military tribunals act which the supreme court approved is the right venue to try khalied shikh mohammed and the others involved in 9/11. an open court gives them an opportunity to spew out there a pull rhetoric for it under discovery, they can get government secrets that will be abused through the al qaeda network. they use to get cigarettes in the 1993 title of the blind shiekh. it is a mistake to give them a

try upper they offered to plead guilty to the military tribunal act. host: are you saying that we should no take the tea partyiers the what the military to overthrow the u.s. government? guest: i will have to beg ignorant here. i don't know about who is trying to overthrow the u.s. government. if anybody is actively trying to overthrow the u.s. government -- host: are few -- are you familiar with the oath-keepers? guest: no, i am not familiar host: our republican line is next. caller: have you ever read the book by pourhassan?

he is a moslem the married an american catholic woman and lives in america and moved here when he was 14. he wrote "the corruption of muslim-." it is the best book i have ever gotten. i would like to have him as a guest on c-span. host: we are running out of time. guest: i have not read that book but there have been several books and other muslims that have talked about the internal problems with the muslim community. host: steve emerson is the executive director of the investigator project on terrorism and an author. thank you very much for being on "washington journal." let's take a look at who will be on