"washington journal" is next. .

host: we're doing to get to your calls shortly but first darr darryl-love samba at it for tw. love sa mr. samuel son. there's a pledge to raise 100 billion dollars a year for poor countries to help them with the climate transition. can you tell us more about this commitment and what it might do

to what looks like a stalemate there? >> sure. hillary clinton came out of a press-conference she gave about an hour ago. pretty pack. the biggest media crowd i've sqq' in a week and a half. everyone is wondering what more could president barack obama put on the table in negotiations here in beyond what he's committed k to in cutting greenhouse gases. many of the poorest countries are looking to the industrial nations to committee to and hillary said the u.s. and she didn't mentijz which countries but said a number of other industrialized nations would and that could be raised throug$. she didn't pick one particular time. said it would be not just

appropriation pus sees a passagq of the energy bill waiting in the senate as a major revenue raiseer for this and private financing and other unspecified means that would be used by developing countries to help them with de forestry efforts to õtry and you know, burn fossil fuels in a cleaner way and also adaptation to climate change. the developing countries are the most vulnerable. and the last piece, this is negotiations hillary said this money would only be offered if the developing world china and others would free to open books and let the industrialized world know that what they're agree together is actually real. host: how likely is this announcement by the united states in it's - the effort to unhinge the talks or make the

move forward. copenhagen. how much will this help the situation there? guest: it should help. i've been wondering the halls getting reactions to people to it. many weren't in the room but trying get feedback and american environmentalist are calling it. some of the developing countries. i talked to the environmental mi'ister from angola but she wanted more money. she said there needs to be a hot more put on the table over the years. they do tend to take the tone that they're at right before the final deal that does get reached you see a lot of stories that we're in a dprid lock position. but then things always seem to coming to in the last minute. the deadline is technically tomorrow the deal is supposed to be reached. president barack obama arrives

but often theseu &> by 2020. a range of 17 percent and o a ma carefully because the legislation hasn't passed the senate but has passed house in senator boxer out of theapw committee a couple of months ago was a 20% target but that has to be watered down to get through the senate.

there's some that want to make that lower target. john kerry signalled 17 was about the number he was going for so president barack obama had that to offer for 2020. host: thanks for brings us up to tate. next 24-hours should be ground going for copenhagen. darren is "environment & energy daily" senior reporter and he is watching the negotiations in copenhagen. as a reminder in 1/2 hour we'll talk with bingaman and learn more about that and healthcare. healthcare is what we're talking about with you this morning. let me give you a quick look at the two opinion pieces i referenced and then we'll get to your telephone calls, e-spr&s and tweets. howard dean reform falls short. he said if i was a senator i would not vote for the current

healthcare bill. any ensures private monopoly and transfers to private corporations is not real healthcare reform. he concludes saying i know health reform when i see it and there isn't much left in the senate bill, as it stands this bill will do more harm than good to the future of america. governor of vermont and medical doctor, another medical doctor, tom coburn other side of the aisle appealed from howard dean and his headlines piece, the health bill is scary. here's what coburn rights. every american not just seniors knows the rashing will reduce their quality of life and life-span as well. creating new comparative effectiveness research programs. cer panels have been used in

other countries such as uk where 15,000 cp'cer patients die prematurely every year. other unintended bills could @% wreck havoc. what happens when they demand to buy insurance and realize the penalty. it won't take longer for other healthy americans to pay a 750 tax recovery than 5,000 in annual when coverage can't be denyed if you get sick. i referenceed the "wall street journal"'s pole and then we'll get to your calls. public is turned against the overhaul of the sweeping bill of the healthcare in the senate. more americans believe it's better to keep the current healthcare than to pass president barack obama's plan. )jurh new "wall street journal" pole. overhaul enjoy the slight edge over the status call to get

waivering lawmakers on pole. 44 percent of americans said it's better to pass no plan at all compared to 44 percent that said it's better to pass the plan. begin with a call from new jersey. be linda. good morning. caller: good morning. i sáátpá really do agree with howard dean. but as i really sit back and i think about the many people i've seen and healthcare leadings that do not have healthcare and the christian right that i've been watching and has totp&ly slowed down or stopped the american government from doing anything for the people that do not have healthcare as well as lieberman, i do still think i have faith in the good american people, that we have to pass something. and we should be able to tweet whatever we pass.

i keep the faith. i dz agree with him but i keep the faith we'll be able to tweet it. we need healthcare. host: tom on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning and first of all, to the troops in the field and in iraq and afghanistan you're in our thoughts and prayers and merry christmas and a ha(py new year. i find it kind of interesting that howard dean is speaking out agpr'st the democratic bill. i mean, if howard dean is speaking out against it, it must be bad, but you know the greatest thing is we'll all have we'll all be unemployed eating yard grass and bark but at least we'll have some sort of health insurance. i was curious to see your pole in the "wall street journal"

saying the majority of americans are against this. that will hau't the democrats but seems they're willing to get anything passed. i don't know about you, but when i go to my family doctor if he's not quite sure what's wrong with me, i would prefer he not inject me or prescribe me something and just refer me on to another specialist and slow down and take time to get the correct diagnosis but our congress right now, would be more than happy to inje(u you with anything just to be able to say thqv did something. host: tom thanks very much. k jorge tweets. scrap this bill and start over. public option is a must. let's hear next from lake watery south washington. tony independent line. caller: thanks to c-span. good to talk to you. what i'm hearing, if it's

correct, this is going to be an individual mandate from the government that i have to go out and buy a private insurance plan but whatever they're willing to sell it to me for. i'm unemployed and have no insurance coverage and i'm burning through my nest egg at  rapid rate and if the government is going to require me to shell out anywhere from 500 to 5,000 dollars a month to buy health insurance i'm going to be bankrupt in a year and a half and if that's way it is, they need to get righted of it. i voted for president barack obama thinking we would get affordable healthcare coverage but they've rolled over. he and congress to the insurance industry and now they're trying pass this thing so just they is say can we passed something. seems more political than in the best interest of the american people.

host: norm. a democrat. caller: morning, susan. i'm a little sad dean came out against this. democrats need to do the insurance reform. we also need to pull together on this. it's high time, buá i have to say, i really love the republicans politicians. they go to church every single sunday and pray for the sick and needy and then they spend the rest of the week doing the best to mock anything's that's helpful. they're the best. host: yesterday you saw the amendment and the "washington post" this morning. in senate health showdown. round goes to gop and 17th day of senate de the bait on health legislation a from

oklahoma squared off from vermont hoping for a full debate to fisher a system of medicare for all. that was tom coburn who's piece we showed you earlier and in the end in our final segment. john will be here vice president commissioner breslin who w breae hand will be here to sect the outcome. here is a story in the jrpost". senate republicans vow to delay the work to lock down 60 votes for testimony caucus. the reporters. senate republicans. decided to use any tactic to daely. republicans are expected to make a similar move on which is using the reading of the bill tactic. when reid introduced the bill

which is likely to top 2000 pages and cannot be similarly with drawn from the board as was yesterday. lorraine. republr(p' line. caller: yes, i agree with % howard dean. i think this would - we need to be more concq)ned about creating jobs because the healthcare plan that's proposed would bankrupt people like the gentlemen said before and he says, one that's called republicans evil and bible thumb pears. well, i hope he stands on judgement day for his accusations against people he doesn't each know. that's not right. thank you very much. host: randy, independent in harper, kansas. what's your thoughts on healthcare? caller: good morning, how are you? i have no health insurance.

however, my son and daughter are on the health wave in kansas program and i'm a 44 year old veteran, but i do not think we need to be without healthcare, but however i believe we should not bring healthcare into the country at the cost of my freedom and i think from what - i can't run a computer but i have a friend that gets on there for me and he showed me some things and want to say real quick, after they sign up into the new world order i don't think any of this is going to matter but i think that's what's going on in copenhagen and hou(áq dean is right. thank you c-span. have a nice day and god bless. host: perry called himself krupy on twitter. americans have been sold out to the insurance corporations and i agree with doctor dean. next comment from david watching in virginia beach. democrat line.

tjt morning. caller: thank you for c-span. as a democrat i agree with mr. dean but i'm going to do more research because the republicans "tpá howard dean is saying. they weren't saying it two weeks ago. i find it strange that we put credibility in the "wall street journal" pole. where were they in predicting the melt down of this economy. i'm not a big fan of the current healthcare plan but i am leaning but i do believe any more concessions is basically going back to status quo any way. i'm going to do the research but it's funny everybody is jumping on board as dean now. host: lake land, fwlor da you're on. caller: i have to agree with mr. dean. i'm a republican because i don't like the way democrats approach a lot of things but our party

had the majority for six years and presidency for 8 years and we did nothing. re trying andg. all my party is doing is apposing everything. if we want to get a solution i think there's got to be corporation sooner or later for the whole situation or it's just going to get wofrments thank you. host: here's stochl headlines from the capitol hill papers. partisan wars erupt in senate. health reform raises the clock and by christmas it's seems in peril. what do you think of the current state of the legislation. do you agree that this bill should not be passed we'd like to hear a yes or know from you and why. nebraska. this call is marvin. independent line. caller: good morning. host: good morning marvin. caller: i'm a first time caller

and i'm a 20 year veteran. retired mill c milt tear and le right is screaming so we must be õclose to a pretty good deal. i can't see how any one who has healthcare can say we don't need to do something about this plan i figure the tax dollars will be spent no matter what. the american people should get something spent on their behalf. >> thanks for making call marvin. hope to have you back. tu)uáer says dean is dumb. he's offering no solutions. putting public option back in means nothing without the vote. kansas city, missouri. melissa? what are your thoughts on healthcare legislation. caller: i would &ike the bill to be passed and my understanding is that it makes

insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions and doesn't allow them to rescind people's policies once they have an emergency situation and i mean, i have, i pay you know hundreds of dollars every month for my health insurance and mv biggest fear is i'm in a car wreck and they tell me thanks for the payments all those years but we're going to rescind your policy now. i feel i have no assurance whatsoever. it would benefit me. host: melissa thanks for the call. one caller says hits upon the irony that sanders was unhappy about the removal yesterday. he said a few minutes later sanders with true his amendment calling for government run healthcare. this is nothing more than onktájjt stalling tactic. stan sanders said it contains some irony in a news conference

to ex(lain why he put a hold or delay on his own of obama's renomination of ben bernanke. next call is michit(jy good morning to helen on republican line. you're on, helen. caller: i agree it shouldn't be passed but disagree. everybody dullfies the r'surance companies. they're the lowest people j)q profit. they make like a 2-5 percent profit and they'reville guying these people and we,ville guy all these people. the car companies all of them and it mean it's going to come down to this country making villains of each other. it's going to be person to person from soon. my husband is on medicare ceramic and we've received a notice they're not funding

vantage so he's already lost his medicare ceramic part because the government said they're defunding it and it's only december 16th. any way or 17th. i'm not áu)e what day it is host: 17th helen. thanks for your call. "wall street journal"'s editorial paper takes on text taxes and healthcare bills. they said if your family earned less than $250,000 you will not see your taxes increase a single dime. president barack obama at his first address in february. congressional addresses are raising taxes on the middle taxes by stacks of dimes and senate democrats on tuesday made it cheer they won't be bound by the president's vow. 54 voted to kill i'd mo' republican mike kra crap o's. bill. those include a mandate of up to

$750 a year for americans who fail to purchase health insurance, new levies on small business many of which file individuals tax returns that don't offer healthcare to employees and new tax penalties on health savings accounts flexible spending a counts. we're listening to your opinion. nq,t call is robins, north carolina. john, independent line. your on the air. caller: hello. yeah, this is my first time calling. c-span. i've been watching it on and off for the last several yearj and i try to keep up on things. i really agree with doctor dean, i thought thought should pass something but now i realize it's a poison pill and i trust doctor dean. i think obama has been co-opted

by wall street and it's a shame. i agree with many of the callers because people are thinking more and áup)ting to see. one thing i heard from the lady from michigan she said she thinks the insurance profits one of the least profitable companies. but 2-5 percent perhaps that's true but maybe the executives are loading up packages and salaries. i've heard they have 25% administrative costs or somet$ing. insurance company executives are not starvint and they do have health insurance and i don't. many of my friends don't and i work construction. unless your in a city or state where there's unions you're not going to get insurance. 70 percent of the jobs created are, what do they say? by small business. gee whiz how can that be? the only way is because there's a high turnover because people

like me are just getting jobs for ten weeks and then you finish a building and your getting another job. your called journeyman. i'm sorry what's happened to our country. i'm 57 and i was so proud of the united states when i was an exchange student back in 1970 i had to defend the united states because we're in vietnam and these french people, really sophisticated and political and you know what? i came back and went to college and studied political science and philosophy and psychology. i have advanced degrees but i've tried to understand what's happened to my country and i've seen it go downhill. instead of the blacks against the whites or north guest the south now it's republicans and democrats but that's not true. it's alu(váháhe people that control and own the government. wall street and then the rest of this. host: thank you. sorry to cut you off.

a lot of people want to comment this morning. we're - i want to show you some other throat thou thoughts. howard dean said he would not vote for healthcare bill. and political analyst. chief strategist for general bush and now political analyst for abc news. says president barack obama and his party are headed for catastrophic consequences in healthcare in the current form. he says my advice is leaders ought to concentrate what should matter to americans and not what they think should voters. real bipartisan vote. and restore trust in t$e government's ability to do even strong things. more talk and less support is his piece this morning. cnn pole shows 34 pq)cent of

americans and 61 percent appose. clear that the public wants congress to take a mull gann and start over. so republican cans win in 2009 by stopping the bill or in 2010 by saying unpopular healthcare wr's pass to bring it to a senate vote. each incumbent democrat is responsible for everything in the law. mans field, ohio. sherry. democrats line you're on. caller: i agree with howard dean and caller earlier that it's forced insurance payments will bankrupt him. i'm pretty much in the same situation. when i studied parts of the bill and i haven't studied at all, i was looking for the hardship clause that the democrats mentioned. the only one i came an about was for employers where they could file every two years and cry to

the government that if they had to pay into this program it would cause them to lay-off people and i might have it wrong. i haven't studied it thoroughly but i believe this will happen. there's another part in there where the commissioner will deem what's considered part time and full-time and let's give them the shadow of the doubt and something extreme like senator dean is full-time. employers will work people up to 14 hours a week and nothing more. i have all these part time people. of course they'll have to hire more part time people to come meet the as it can companies task to beat done and we're talking about wal-mart and krogers and so forth that hike to keep part time people. host: what's the bottom line here. caller: this the way the

democrats produce more jobs then that's sad way of going about it. ho host thanks for your call. ohio, oregon. sorry. republican line and our last view toir comment on this. go ahead. caller: thanks for c-span. first of all, top of the morning to you susan. i have to say i'm ashamed of my party for their transits in not willing to - um... do anything except say, no. i agree with doctor dean that if this thing, it has basically gotten watered town to the point it's practically worthless but there's a couple of things in it that would hell fp it was passed but nevertheless, it's becoming more and more obvious to america as i talk to people around me,

that they're concluding the republican party has become the party of, njy the party of - um... tries to b% the stick in the mud and muck up the works to where there's no way to - for the democrats to "trá's a lose/lose situation. i realize it's for the 2010 elections but people are getting pretty fed up. host: thanks for your call. we'll talk with senator bingaman about the 2-stories we've had on the table this morning. first, is copenhagen summit and the energy and climate bill that it might result from this, and united states congress. the senate will be next to deal with that and he's the chairman of the energy and natural resources and senate health committees and very involved. we'll mix those two in a couple

of minutes. emily pierce is on the phone. partisan wars erupt and healthcare raises the clock. emily pierce bring us up to date on what today will look like in senate on healthcare registration. >> we're getting a break. appropriations bill. they will spend 2 1/2 days on that and then they'll get back to the healthcare debate. that was part of what this partisan war was happening is that the democrats wanted to quickly get to this defense bill but the republicans through a wrench trying force the reading of an almost 800 page amendment. host: but what's happening behind closed door? guest: basically i'm hearing they feel comfortable about 59 democrat at this point but they

need 60 to break áhe gop fill buster. they're trying get the vote of ben nelson from nebraska to address his concerns on abortion and waiting for the budget office to have a cost estimate of changes they made when they decided to get rid of the public option in this bill. host: thanks very much. i know you have lots ahead to figure out where all this is going. appreciate you bringing us up to speed this morning and we'll recommend people to your piece. roll call.com. >> thanks so much. host: senator you know better than anybody what's doing on behind close doors. let's talk about maneuvers with the reading of senator sanders amendment. things got very heated. what's your thoughts on where the legislature stands and what will happen?

correct. senator reid is waitint to hear rom the congressional budget office as to the final analysis and scoring they've done on the bill and then he's also trying to be sure that we can get 60 senators to support doing ahead with what's called manager's amendment he's been preparing to make some changes. "tp'd to accommodate some of th concerns of the 60 members that he hopes will vote for the bill and then he would offer that and we'd go through i think the republicans are árying throw up all the obstacles they can so they require us to go through culture votes and essentially filly buster to keep us from getting to a vote on a manager's packet of amendments and keep us from trying get to a vote on a final bill. ht would be a filly buster and we hope we can get it done by

christmas. host: howard dean says where the bill stands now i would not vote for it's a senator. what's your reaction? guest: i disagree strongly with his position. i think clearly the bill is not everything he would like, it's not everything i would like. i'm disappointed we're not able to include somethings in the bill that we would like to have in there. so called public option. i've supported that but we don't have 60 votes for that. that's simple reality. the bill as it now stands is going to do a tremendous amount of good for an awful lot of americans. congressional budget office says this allow us to bring down the growth in the cost of healthcare and in that significant accomplishment if we can do that, it'll also reduce the deficit and expand coverage to another 31,000,000 people in this country.

so there's a tremendous amount of good that can become accomplished by enacting the legislation. it's not everything. i understand, i was reading governor dean's comment and he says it allows for the bill now as it stands discrimination between older folks and younger folks, and that you can charge three times as much under the bill for someone who's older for health insurance as you could for a younger person and he's right. but today, there's no limit on the amount of addition charge that can be put on older in"ividuals in and some states, it's 20-30 or more times as much. so this bill moves us a great part of the distance to where we need to be. host: also showed tom coburn piece in the "washington

journal" this morning said i will recq'tly suggest seniors will die sooner if the healthcare bill is put forth by harry reed. my somacolleagues dismiss my con as a scare tactic and they're wrong. every american not just seniors will and should know it will reduce they're quality of life and their life-spans as well. guest: the truth is we have a system of rationing in place today. nearly 50 million americans have no health insurance coverage. in my state, 26 percent of the people living in new mexico today do not have any healthcare coverage at all. now that is rationing by most definitions in that, they are not able to access healthcare except in an situation. so i think that this fear about

rationing which is not justified and there's nothing the bill that calls for any rationing. there are no death panels as was earlier alleged. you know there's a whole raft of scare tactics used during the course of this debate that really are not related to what's in the legislation. host: one last question and we'll get to calls. phone numbers are on the screens. republicans, (202) 737-0001, democrats, (202) 737-0002, independents, (202) 628-0205. with the $750 tax penalty if you don't go, tom writes other unintended consequences can wreak havoc.

when savvy consumers realize it can be the defacto premium. it won't take long for younger healthier americans to realize they should pay the $750 tax instead of the 5,000 premiums when coverage can't be denied when you get sick. guest: e well they say some people will purchase insurance because it's required even if you don't have a penalty because there's a require to purchase. if you do have a penalty, more people will purchase. you know there are going to be people that choose to pay a penalty rather than purchase insurance and then they will not have insurance coverage and they'll be able to go to a medical, emergency room and make the rest of us pay when in fact they get sick and need substantial medical assistance,

but most americans will try to comply with the law, if the law requires that everybody who is able financially able, go out and obtain insurance and under this bill it says if you can obtain insurance, without spending more than $9 point 8% of your gross income your required to do it if you can't then you're not required to do it. host: how are you reflecting as year ends on this many months of debate with the town hall meetings and all of the discussion nationally about it? how has this process worked? guest: i think the bill today has been a better bill than we were likely to be considering had we tried to pass legislation in july, example. i was involved with the pretty extensive effort that three republicans and three democrats

got involved in with the finance committee. frankly there's been a lot of criticism of the process but we spent over 60 meetings of multi hour meetings and the bill that emerged was a much better bill than the one we started with, at least in my opinion. that part has been constructive. some of it's been unfortunately because i do think some of the proponents of healthcare reform have resorted to scare tactics trying persuade seniors this will be a negative for their benefits and democrats will decide whether or not they beat medicine but those are not justified based on anything in the bill and i think that's been unfortunate. caller: virginia this is greg

on the democrat line for senator bingaman. caller: good morning and i'll make it quick. one quick thing i wanted to tell you about. personal experience. we have a 6-year-old son diagnosed with baby asthma. it's a temporary condition and it went away and because of that we've not been able to get any insurance coverage for risk respiratory since the con"ition went away. also, we pay about $700 a month. we're both self-employed my wife and i and we make about $60,000 so you can see how large of a chunk it takes from the budget and we still cannot get anything respiratory covered from this several insurance companies we've tried. my main question is, i know there's stuff in here about not allows insurance companies to cancel or giving pre-existing

conditions and not allowing them to cancel policies when they get sick and insurance company decides your too much of a risk. i haven't heard on how you control them from basically defacto eliminating those people by raising premiums and rates so high you just can't afford it. i'm wondering when the congress and senate will understand how bad things really are out here for the average americans and how bad does it have to get and it gets worse senator, i know you have served honorable bli and i appreciate it but therqrj going to be a huge wave from all incumbents on both parties if we can't get anything done, to be thrown out. we need new mood if you guys can't get it done for the american people. guest: i was going to say at least those of us supporting

this bill are trying get something done. we may be here well christmas eve and christmas day trying get it finished but i think the concern, the example that he's given is a very real one and this legislation would correct a lot of that. this legislation would require that insurance companies, do what we call guaranteed issue. they provide coverage and that they can't write into the coverage exclusion for particular problems they've identified. this should not be like title insurance. i used to practice law and entitle insurance was a deal where the title company would come out and check the records in the courthouse and if there was risk, they would exclude that risk from their coverage and would basically say we'll guarantee the title but assuming we won't guarantee this risk.

unfortunately that's carried over to the healthcare area and you've got a lot of effort being done by the insurance companies now to say first, we will do what we call under writing which means we'll screen everybody we sell a policy too and if we can identify anything that might go wrong or lead to an illness or exclude that from a cove range. that's crazy system and wq need to change that. ho host next caller? caller: i wasn't call together talk about healthcare. i thought he was going to talk about the global warming in copenhagen. host: go for it. caller: okay. hool man, cool. senator i have a question for you. i have - gosh, well for a while back, when i was ope'-minded about global warming, i was getting into some debates with

people and really wanted to hear why they were supportinu$e whole global warming man made global warming stint and the um... eventually, the crux of the whole argument seem to always rest on whether or not there was a medieval warming period of not and research i came up with is that there was a medieval warming period, of course that was way before the industrial revolution and all that kind of stuff and that would put a wrench into the works. man made global warming since it happened prior to what we call it today. host: william is your question what? caller: so my question is, in light of the fact that, you know that is the crux of the argument and those scientist e-mails even shju that they're trying figure out what to do with the medieval

warming period, does that change your opinion on anything. are you so closed minded that new information doesn't even tap into your conscious at all? host: thank you. guest: hope i'm not that closed minded. frankly on the issue of whether or not global warming is occurring and whether or not it's caused by human activity, on that issue i basically defer to the national academy of sciences and i think they're in a better position and they're better qualified to make that call than i am. they've concluded that global warming is o((u)ring and that it is a major cause of it rj human activity. the g)eenhouse gas emissions human activity ge'erates. as far as i know that's still their position. nothing that's come out in connection with these recent

e-mails or anything else has in any way changed that position at the national academy of sciences to that point o# view and i'm open to them telling me something else if they can conclude something else. but so far i think there's a very strong consensus among the scientist that study this issue that this is a serious problem and one that needs to be addressed. host: we've learned this morning soap soap, hillary clinton announced the united states will help to raise up to 100 bi&lion dollars annually for developing countries so that they can absorb some of the cost of enacting climate change legislation. you think that's good thing? guest: well, i don't know. clearly, it's a good thing for us to be willing to cooperate with other industrial countries

in assisting under developed countries to come to grips with áhis but i think she puts several conditions on her statements. everyone not just the developed countries but even the under developed countries need to agree to targets and monitoring so that we have some way to say everyone is, we're trying help each other. industrial countries are trying help developing countries, but we're also all committed making the necessary changes to get to a more stable situation as far as greenhouse gas emissions and - and we need to be able to verify it. that's what i understood her to say. host: john kerry is on the ground in waiting for the presidents a rival. he's quoted saying yesterday, unless there is a successful outcome in copenhagen it will put the senate debate in peril.

you agree with him? guest: i do think there's not that direct of a connection between what's doing on in copenhagen and the u.s. senate related to climate change. i think that we have a lot of difficulty getting a consensus in the senate as to how to proceed and deal with why mate change. i think it's unlikely we can beat the support in the senate to do example what the house did from the marquee bill, but i think the truth is, we've got problems getting a consensus on what to do in the senate regardless of what happens in copenhagen. i think that if the agreement in copenhagen were such that people resisted it and critiques it in the senate, that would not help us either. >> back to nashville,jd on the republican line. good morning.

caller: good morning. obviously, i disagree with you profoundly about everything you said whether global warming and especially the healthcare fiasco. why is it so imperative to have this bill passed by cross masss. there a magic formula i've missed? you know you talk about scare tactics? this idiot president barack obama said yesterday if we don't pass a bill by christmas the government is going to bow bankrupt. you want to talk about scare tactics all you people do is try to scare the american people into believing this. nobody in this country wants this healthcare system. the overwhelming majority don't want what your proposing in this healthcare bill. you deliberately lied sir with all due respect about the death panels and the pro-abortion

funding. there's also free healthcare for illegal aliens so your deliberately trying to - host: made your point. let's get a response from senator bingaman. overall abortion and free healthcare for immigrant? guest: well the legislation is there's no assistance provided to undocumented illegal immigrants. the legislation is also specific that there are no public funds to be used to provide abortion or abortion services. the debate on the abortion comes down to the question of whether public funds can be used to pay part of the cost of an@jup&l healthcare policy where the individual is also paying the other part of the cost and some way to segregate the funding so that the portion the individual

pays for can cover abortion services and that's issue there. i don't - i don't read the legislation the way the caller does obviously and i think there is a very genuine need to reform our healthcare system which obviously the caller doesn't agree with. ho host he asked what is magic about the christmas deadline. guest: the only thing magic is congress operates in two sessions and we're about to finish first and i think the majority leader, who's job it is to try and schedule the activiáy of the senate, has tried very heh hard to get this completed in the first session of congress to move on to job creation in the second session. that's imperative. )áuásvif it drags into t

year, then it drags into next year. but i do think that we are to a point now, we've been working on this for a couple of years in hearings and really all of this year in p much more intense way and people pretty much, people in the senate pretty much know the issues and have settled on where they are. i hope we can get it completed. host: on to the politics. he said majority of americans are against what you're doing. two polls have shown this morning. one sites the c mark ndsango pole. 36 in favor of the healthcare and 61 percent opposed and new "wall street journal" poll said 44 percent want the bill to pass, 41 percent want it to pass and 44 percent, say don't pass it in it's current form.

a number of pieces here talk about the risk politically to the two parties and in this legislation. what do you see as political consequences of passing a bill or failure to pass the bill? guest: let me address the poling issue. we're in the middle of a campaign right now. you have ads running in many parts of country attacking this legislation. some running in favor but many more attacking the legislation and that's influencing what the polls are saying. i think that the more the american public understands about what's in this legislation, the more support there will be for it. so, my own view is that if we can go ahead and energy act the legislation, (retty much in the form we're trying to in the senate, i think it's responsible legislation and i think that the american public will come to

recognize that it's a substantial step forward. host: if retaliation is used. political consequences to that? guest: the problem using reconciliation. many reforms we're trying accomplish. the insurance market reforms and the prohibiting this exclusion of pre-existing decisions probably would not be able to be included in legislation if we did it through this reconciliation process.% for that reason, it's a much less attractive way to try to proceed. i hope very much we can do it the way we're trying do it. host: senator bingaman will be with us five more minutes. jerry, democrat line? caller: good morning suzy. i hope all the newcomers watch your films because you do the best of anybody. next on the agenda.

bingaman i'm glad to hear you work through christmas. i want you to work through new year's and get it to the president's desk and veto think thing. i can't say on t$e air what is. it stinks. host: why is that, jerry? president got my vote for is not coming to pass. everything. everything on the healthcare bill is not coming to pass. next thing, he should freeze all of the insurance company's premiums at the rate when he took the office. you can't increase your rate on these poor people anymore. next thing, he should by presidential decree let us buy our drugs where we want to. all the drug manufacturers get over 70 percent of their ingredients from out of this country. nobody inspects it and they

love you american people, just people senator i love being tribal nd i've been a slave in bal this country for 600 years. thank you. host: i don't know what the last comment has to do with healthcare bullet as dres how disappointed he is with what the president promise and the healthcare bill. guest: well reality is if people need to compare what we're considering now as what we're going to have if we don't enact legislation and if we don't enact legislation we'll see premiums continue to go up. healthcare costs going u( and up. the deficit growing as a result of the growth of healthcare. and we're doing to continue to see 50 million americans without coverage. more every month i would point

all th out. more employ my years are fi'ding it harder to cover they're employees and about 14 thousand people lose coverage every year. trend is clear things getting worse under the current legislation. this tries to reverse that and i think it's worthwhile for that reason. host: norma, independent from long island. caller: good morning, i'm a senior that voted for president barack obama. i hope the white house is listening. many of us are extremely disappointing us. it's on the pre-existing conditions will definitely effect seniors premiums in something as like high blood pressure. practically every senior i know has high blood pressure. let's get down to what's going on here. i think the problem is in the

senate so far as senaáor reid is concerned and i'm wondering if mr. bingaman to get a book entitled master of the senate. the authorest scrapes me. good. it's written aboutl b. j. and how he managed to run the senate and get what he wanted. looks to me joe lieberman is new senate majority leader and he's running the senate. something wrong with harry reed that let's this person remain in chair in light of what he's trying destroy anything the democrats do. bipartisan ship is simply not going to work and it's time for all senators including mr. reid to wake up to that effect. i'm calling senators today to say if they vote for this bill i'm not voting for them again. host: i apologize you're out of time and we have to get a response from the senator.

guesá: let me say circumstances when,l b. j. was the majority leaders our circumstance where is different than they are today with senator reid. he needs 60 vets to move this legislation forward and he's doing, in my view, a good job in trying pull us together to get those 60 votes and,l b. j. had more democrats when medicare and - was being considered in the senate of course he was president by then but even when he was majority leader, he had some ceramics t damages senate not have today. i think he's doing a good job trying bring us together. .

earlier at a briefing said the signing of a new u.s. reduction treaty is unlikely before the year's end. he says the u.s. delegation is slowing down efforts to reach a deal and urged the u.s. to agree to deeper cuts on nuclear arsenals and less intrusive verification and control measures. the new deal would succeed the 1991 strategic arms reduction treaty that expired. citigroup inc. suspending for closure in this -- foreclosures and evictions for 30 days for some are worse during the holidays. but says the suspension would run from tomorrow, december 18, through january 17 and applies only to borrowers whose loans are all owned by city -- citi, but those owned by other investors to pay through city are not affected. >> "washington journal" continues. host: let me tell you what is coming up thursday, december 17.

jared bernstein from the white house and half an hour from now, jack kingston, republican of georgia, a number of defense appropriations subcommittee will be here. the house yesterday passing the defense appropriations bill. hope some of you watched that and of questions about the contents and the process on the house floor. the final guest is john bresnahan, the politico's senior political reporter -- the rules of the senate and how both sides seek to employ them for the desired outcome. all coming up on " washington journal." we have open phones right now. we would like to hear your comments on health care, energy, anything on your mind. you can send us a twitter message, c-spanwj and you can

also e-mail us, if you like. while we are talking about health care, let me show you the story in "the new york times" about cobra. anybody who has lost their jobs, the covert program allows you to buy in and extends coverage. patrick magee and reporting the federal subsidy paid two-thirds of premiums, enabling this particular person to maintain the cover she had before she was laid off in november of 2008. it was to avert the loss of insurance -- later on, the federal at the city -- advocacy chordata said she expected conference to extend a subsidy by early

dinner. but probably done by including extension or reauthorization of the subsidy in one of the big year-end spending bills that are pending. with the senate still -- still debating an overhaul of the country's health care system, there is no time to take up cobra as a separate matter. it is hard for congress to have both conversation at the same time. you are not going to take a break from health care to discuss health care. open phones. barnett, new jersey. on the shore. the public mind. caller: although at my age i am not a player in this, abortions are legal. they can't just make them illegal by 60 votes. this is going to end up before the supreme court. host: let's hear next from ellis, democrat from pensacola.

caller: i'm 30 years plus military retirees so i'm pretty much insurance insulated. but i think the democrats should just scrap the whole bill. the reason why they are trying to scrap -- push it because they are trying to save face because they were beaten by the minority. it is watered down. for our president who i voted for, if he continues to sit on his haunches he gives me the impression i should have voted for hillary because i think she would have been more force in this and gotten this done. host: yesterday time magazine named ben bernanke, the fed chief, time man of the year. here is "the washington times." the rate upping of mr. bernanke is under consideration by the senate. they write in this piece --

nonetheless, you can see from the head nine it is expected in the end he will keep his job at a pet reserve. pennsylvania, good morning to lou. caller: a quick comment on health care. my thought is i think both sides really need to take a timeout,

go home, get refreshed over the holidays, and come back next year and start again. that is my comments. host: carlton calling us on the republican line from wilmington, delaware. caller: good morning, susan. thank you for c-span. host: do you mind hitting the mute button on your tv? caller: ok. i'm a union sheet metal worker who has been unemployed for a little while. i was just wondering, when it is the president and congress are really going to focus on job creation? not saying the government is a good start of paying jobs, but we need tax breaks so we can get the economy moving. that is what i believe. thank you. host: another new jersey caller. lil -- that all is lost.

louisville, kentucky, sid. caller: thank you. i would like to say what i heard, i congressmen and senators, stating they don't have time to read bills, for me as a 54 year old man, is malfeasance of office. down here in the ninth congressional district we have a congressman, baron held, who seems to think that town hall meetings are for him and they are his -- baron hill. he would not allow any audio or video to come out of the meetings. the whole thing is backwards. host: in the u.s. new section of "the wall street journal" effort to extend the state tax fails. levy set to expire january 1, setting of a political standoff.

host: back to calls. eagan, minnesota. caller: i want to make one quick to comment on health insurance.

i do think they ought to pass some, at least, of the republican ideas. the one i particularly like is allowing small employers to band together. because right now they are being hurt so much with high premiums. but the second thing i want to talk about, nothing about health care -- there is nothing in the constitution that says they need 60 votes. there is nothing in the constitution that says one senator can block anything. why the senate has put in these rules should be looked at, because of this has led to a dysfunctional, nonworking senate paired -- nonworking senate. and this has created a lot of unrest in the country. i think the senators are fools for keeping it like this. host: 9 the subject of our final half hour this morning when we

talk about senate rules. washington metro section, large photograph of first lady michelle obama doing volunteer work for toys for tots. federal way, washington. sure one on the democrats' line. caller: i am with howard dean. i think we ought to kill the bill and sent it back to the house and let them start the reconciliation process. i don't think the republicans have done anything but obstruct and tried to it samir -- tried is to smear and fear. let us get on and pass a single payer health care system. host: salt lake city. sure when, democrats line. -- shevwin caller: thank you

for taking my call. i have listened to c-span for 25 years and it is wonderful. i am so glad to get on. this is only the second time. what i wanted to talk a little bit about, one gentleman before me said he could understand why the bill when it to be passed before christmas. but yesterday i listened to more than two hours of the senate fiasco, and the real reason they wanted done before christmas is because taxes on it starts on january 1, 2010. we do not see anything on it until 2014. that is why everyone is so upset, * shorthaired host: thank you for your call and welcome to the discussion. next is a call from colorado, in the mountains. avery, a republican line. are you there?

caller: i wanted to point out the reason why they are trying to jam before christmas because when they come back, after the christmas break, they are going to be looking at elections and they are all going again to the will of the people. we no longer have representative government. rep government means you do with the greatest number of people when you do when it is clear you have a majority telling you what to do, they follow that. are they following it? no, we don't. that is what is going on they are afraid -- we don't settle this before christmas there are too many people who will desert. democrats know the gig is up and they will not be elected. they want to get it behind them for, next year, election year. host: we lost the there. thank you for your call. arlington, sean, democrats line. caller: appreciate c-span. quick two comments. first i would like to say i'm extremely disappointed at the

bill as it is shaping up. i am not in favor of public option and medicare by and just as a holy grail to support it but what we have now is requiring people to purchase insurance through existing private insurers and looks to me like a bit of a giveaway. second thing, when people on the other side of the i'll throw out statistics about 55%, 65 -- 60%, citing the that majority of americans don't support health reform, but a lot of people opposing the bill now are people like me who are unhappy at the direction it is taking and a lot of people would be supportive of reform if it was something was similar to what the house of representatives was passing. host: two stories related to financial reform. on the front page of " the washington post" style section, profile of richard shelby, republican of alabama.

also related to financial markets, "the financial times." host: open phones, let's go back to your calls. utah, south jordan. stephen on our independent line. caller: i hear all this talk about global warming and trying to save the world. the inconvenient truth about

global warming and saving the world is we as a nation are turning the 10 commandments into the tent and convenient troops. one commanded that the deal with global warming, fourth commandment -- remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy, six days shall your labor and do all of your work. that is a rest day for a man and a requirement and rest day for the earth. we can do more to save the world by keeping the 10 commandments than anything else. ok? host: next is leo, westminster, calif., democrats line. caller: i kind of wanted to talk about two things, and one of -- when you get the republican line, i think if you go back and check your records and listen to the calls the way they come in, the republicans are the bottom of the barrel as far as i'm concerned with their language

towards the people who are guests on this show and even the moderators. i feel there should be no reason that they come on here and preach to us about abortion or anything else. they should be talking politics. this is not the kind of show. the other thing is, is that the posts that are on there should put the party on there. you do a great job, like another -- and number of you do, but sculley never puts it on there. our politicians should know who we are and what we are trying to say. another thing is possible, maybe the age of the caller would help. i appreciate you listening to me. these clowns calling and are strictly road and they talk all this garbage, they should be cut off, it is not right. thank you there are much.

host: next is a call from chicago, edwin, independent line. caller: it has been a couple of months and i talked to you last. when i talked to you before it was a reference to open phone and i wanted thank you for taking it and bringing it back and i wish you would ask the other commentators to go to open phones because there are a lot of things we want to talk about the size of the problems we are having. the second thing i would like to say to the congress and the senators, they have had their opportunity to be on stage -- watching c-span, it is like a stage play. now the time is to be concerned about the american people. forget about your pride and how much power you have. that is not important. we have to take and help the people will need help and those

people who are constantly calling in saying, kill this bill, we know that if this bill doesn't pass and then they tweak it later, it will never pass. so i am asking the senators, stop playing with the american people and do what needs to be done to help everyone. and i hope you will have a happy christmas and a safe new year and i hope to talk to you next year. host: thank you for the call. appreciate the good wishes. we started off showing you how where dean's op ed piece, saying if he were a senator he would not vote for the house bill. mary sends this -- >> is a comments on open phones from keystone heights, florida. gene, democrats line. caller: i think the republicans

need to pay a price for their refusal to participate in this. it is pathetic. this hole scare tactic they've brought up with debt panels and rationing. if you want to know about rationing, i went to the doctor about my blood pressure and they refused to do anything about it and 30 days later i was getting open heart surgery from the e r. so, we got rationing correctly. i am afraid insurance companies had to much influence in this bill and i would like to see something that really reflects what the people need and not what insurance companies won, and merry christmas to everyone. host: larry, independent line from north carolina. caller: thank you for taking my call. health care, i looked at the bipartisanship -- if you think back, we have a short memory but when clinton was in the chair, i

noticed a lot of the republicans were pushing for the free trade and they would not let him get nothing through unless he signed the thing with the free-trade, it is a new world order and we need to do this and that. and clinton went along with it just so he could get other things done. we see what happened. these people are so far to the other side, they want big business to control completely and what bush had done in the last eight years, the things he had did it will take a long time to undo and we have to take drastic measures. we cannot go half measures. because if we do, we are going to end up being tracked by these republicans. these guys are excellent as far as trucking and scaring people and getting people to do what they want. when bush was in the chair there was no such thing as bipartisanship. when he wanted tax cuts and this, everything was done.

hello? host: we are listening caller: lasting of what to say. please let me finish. what we need to do -- i wish i had the money to do it -- but if we all did it an early vote, we know where the registered voters, if we sent them a letter -- we have to look at things we agree on, democrats, republicans, and independence, instead of what we don't agree on. one thing we do agree on is we have a lot of -- people have been up there too long. we need to completely clean them out. if we got together and all early voted, came to a consensus at first and ask if they are willing to vote out all incumbents, and i know it sounds drastic but some people are there, they are going to have to go. there is going to have to be a sacrifice. we need to get these people out. once we agree, if we get 51% to agree to vote out all of congress we can vote all the bums out.

host: hamilton, ohio. michael, republican line. caller: everybody going on about health care reform, they really need to look at a document from "the new york times" how wal-mart was doing the health care program and stated that they targeted people -- they want a healthy work force so that, whether costs. this is a memo wrote -- written by citizen chambers, he works in the benefits department and its stated they wanted to target on bringing healthy people into the work force of law whether health care costs. host: thank you for the call. james from louisiana sense of this twitter -- -- sends this twitter.

pittsburgh, jane on the democrats' line. caller:, about the mortgage crisis and the financial debacle. the problem, i have been a victim turned advocate. in 2002, i got injured where i worked -- 27 years i worked for a railroad, and id -- got behind in bills. in the foreclosure process -- this is what i don't see elected officials talking about -- all the foreclosures taking place in this country, they say 2 million, everybody has one thing in common, you become a defendant in court. and no one is talking about what is going on on this end of this thing with the foreclosure process. i have been working with some groups, acorn, naca, they are not working anything out. in my case i sat and senator specter's office in january of

2004, countrywide acted as the plaintiff and who shows up in this meeting? we had a conference meeting. fannie mae's attorneys. i could have written a check to pay my house and full and fair and a's attorney would not work anything out. in the court proceeding, countrywide was listed as the plaintiff. this is the problem we are seeing. when you look at these foreclosures, i helped my neighbors stop there sheriff's sale back in june. several people claiming to their loan. what is getting to me is what is going on in the court proceedings. what are the judges and elected officials doing? i have taken this to the fbi, me and other people. they don't even want to look of the records. meanwhile watching the center's talk about what they will do about a but i have heard nothing about the judiciary and foreclosure process. host: kalamazoo, michigan. michael on the republican line.

caller: my question is, the va hospital was originally built for 80 million veterans and i wonder why these facilities cannot utilize -- i guess only 20 million left at this point. i wonder if putting a parallel system and competing head to head of the insurance companies in existing hospitals would be a really good way of saving money. thank you, i was at my answer of the air. host: we will let it stand as your open phones comment. as promised, our next guest joins us from the white house, jared bernstein, chief economist and economic adviser to vice president biden and the topic is green jobs. thank you for rejoining us. nice to see you. guest: my pleasure. host: a headline -- white house plan would increase clean energy tax credit with the hope of creating jobs in the green job every. could you tell us more about the plan? guest: this is a $5 billion increase the administrations of

the -- supports and recovery act program. it has not to memorable name, 48c tax credit. it is for advanced w(acturing, specifically to make green and manufacturing components, that is, the machinery behind the green economy, right here in the good old usa. and that is to stimulate manufacturing building, manufacturing jobs here in america associated with clean energy. in that sense it is really much a two-for. good, domestic jobs at home to promote the president's clean energy agenda. ghost: does the senate and house have to vote on reallocation? guest: it is not from the current recovery act. the program was initially funded at $2.3 billion in the recovery act. it was very quickly

oversubscribed. the energy department had hundreds more applications, good applications, to build manufacturing components here at home. and they used up that initial subsidy for the credit. so this would be an extension of that and, yes, it would mean going to congress and getting the tax credit extended. i suspect the question is, how do you pay for that. remember, thanks to, i think, some very good and careful stewardship of the tarp program, it is expected to cost $200 billion less than we expected even last summer. those savings create some fiscal space, both for deficit reduction and shifting our emphasis on helping banks on wall street to growing jobs on main street. guehost: our topic is green job.

here are the phone lines -- host: what did you learn from reviewing the initial applications about the types of countries interested in applying for the credits? guest: entrepreneurial innovative spirit of the private sector, american manufacturers, is very much alive and well. we also learned that the president's clean energy agenda is tapping right into a sentiment among americans both in terms of household and in terms of producers, employers, manufacturers, who view this as a new domestic industry that can both raise in u.s. competitiveness in global markets as the place to, for the production of clean energy but

also can help to revitalize and revised manufacturing particularly in states that have been hard hit. what these programs do is help manufacturers and users -- the big factories at the end of a line of the hundreds of thousands of suppliers along the way, shift out of the contracting sector into the expanding sector, moving into this a new clean energy space. again, i think a very positive signal about the on japan or ship of the green economy coming on-line -- an entrepreneur warship of the grain economy. host: what are the estimates of jobs that will be created? guest: we are talking about tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs. and that build on top of as many as 1.6 million jobs saved or created thus far through the recovery act. that is not our estimate, but

the nonpartisan congressional budget office. i think we are on track in terms of job creation. host: when you review the initial applications, do they come in from all parts of the country or hard green jobs regional? guest: they are not geographically concentrated by any means. they have come in from all over the country. as i mentioned, there are factories in the midwest that are anxious to move into this space. but we have had applicants from california. there's lots of production, whether it is the solar panels, geothermal, where there is a lot of wind power in the wind corridor in the midwest and the upper parts of those areas. and then from the northeast as well. quite broadly distributed geographically. host: yesterday i was reading a report from a major think tank about skills gap for american

workers. concerned that the kind of jobs this country will demand over the next decade are not the kind of skills american workers have or still have. in the area of green jobs, is there still a hit skills gap? guest: i don't think there is a skills gap that goes beyond the generic issues we have had in a while. but think about green jobs as they run the gamut. you could have somebody who is an architect, someone who is an electrical engineer. you also have someone who is a construction worker, a labour whether rising a home. so, they do run the gamut. skills gap, that does bring it over at least from our perspective to the president's education agenda. i think what is important here is the president is not think exclusively about how can we help kids get into an afford college.

that is definitely at the heart of it. but he is definite -- also thinking about how we make sure the folks already in the work force can get their retraining they need to move from, again, a sector that may be contracted to one like the green economy expanding. that is the role for community colleges, for example, which is an important part for our agenda. host: let's begin with colorado, kathy on our independent line. are you there? caller: yes, i am here. i really want to see as much as possible in this. don, especially in the immediate future -- in this area done, especially in the immediate future for people suffering. my question is, what ever happened to or is there any consideration about taxing wall street transactions? we have a congressman here in

colorado saying they're used to be one and it was ended in the late 1960's and he made an effort to try to do that. i think that would be extremely popular with people in the united states, especially main street, to get immediate help and relief for people -- so many people are suffering right now. i, again, would like to see as many green and immediate jobs put into place. guest: jared bernstein -- host: jared bernstein, on the timing. guest: the recovery act, of which green jobs is a component, was signed less than four weeks after we got here. we were very keyed into the urgency i hear and kathy's question. i have been working extremely hard -- vice-president and team recovery has been doing exemplary and very transparent job in terms of implementation. thus far, according to the

congressional budget office, and by the way, they are in the same ballpark as other outside estimators, the recovery act has a book created well over a million jobs. g-8 saved or created well over a million jobs. i don't want to say for a second we are anywhere near out of the woods or for that matter 1 million, 2 million, 3 million jobs saved or created it is nearly enough to offset the jobs deficit we face. i don't think there is any plausible government program that could fully offset the recession of the magnitude we have seen. but i think what we have got here we hit the ground running and we will continue to do more to me the kind of urgency. you heard the president weighing heavily in a new set of jobs ideas, targeted employment ideas that he raised recently, one of which, by the way, is manufacturing tax credit to grow

manufacturing jobs in the near term. host: a view or sends us a twittered -- guest: i think every month my south -- myself and the president, everyone on the economic team, is out here talking i think very candidly about the job losses. when we got here, in january 2009, the job market shed that month 740,000 jobs. i don't remember -- i don't want to say how many decades -- in my career, a job loss month of that magnitude. let me tell you, the recession had already got our attention. it is not like we look up that morning. but to get here and see losses of that magnitude on the doorstep, that motivated our actions to work with congress to pass the largest keynesian

stimulus in the history of this country. last month, november, job losses were 11,000 -- 700,000 in january, 11,000 in november. 11,000 job losses is 11,000 to many. we are nowhere near out of the woods. unemployment rate way too high. but are we moving in the right direction, absolutely. host: democrats line. caller: thank you for c-span. i would like to ask the desk a few questions but i made a trip to texas and spring and i don't know if you are aware about 100 miles there, north and west of abilene, there are hundreds, maybe thousands of windmills being built and an operation. i was told that these were coming from china.

i come wondering if we were giving a tax break for windmills' to be made in china. you don't hear anything from the texas people are anybody else. you -- they are not bragging about. hundreds or maybe thousands of them as far as i could see. guest: listen, that tax credit i mentioned earlier, that is targeted at exactly the problem the caller raises. there are other countries, and china is one of them, making a play to build a clean energy export platform. this president envisions america making the components of green energy right here at home. in order to do that we put a tax credit to incentivize, 30 percent sign tax credit to incentivize the building of precisely those components.

wind turbines, whether you are talking about the blades, a gear boxes, or any of the 8000 parts that go into the turbines, those american manufacturers who want to produce those here -- as i mentioned, we are oversubscribed. there are a lot of budget and doors -- entrepreneurs chomping at the bit. that three-point $2 billion initially and recovery act was levered up by about a factor of three. at the same thing with the the five the administration supports. talk about well over $20 billion, bringing private capital off the sideline to incentivize precisely the kind of building in america. host: the jobless numbers -- newly laid off workers filing claims for unemployment benefits unexpectedly rose last

week as the recovery of the battered labor market perceives in fits and starts. labor market said thursday the number of new jobless claims rose to 480,000 last week, up 7000 from the previous week, worse performance than the decline to $465,000 economists expected. any comments? guest: first of all, the four week average in front of you? host: it did fall to i think for 67500 -- 467,500. guest: it depends on where to look. the weekly numbers are volatile and the four-week moving average moves it out and it has been falling ever since the peak last month. but i don't want to get and cherry picking. we've got to cut unemployment, too many people seeking those initial claims. this is true that since the peak back in march it has come down significantly.

any week you are going to give fits and starts. certainly last month's jobs report, a much more reliable indicator of the state of the labour market shows diminished loss rate. but diminished loss rate does not get anywhere close to what we are looking for here. as i stressed, this president's -- i can't tell you how urgent he feels this equation is. as a member of the economic team, it is the thing we hear most about. that is why about a week and a half ago you heard him talking about new ideas to build on some of the successes and recovery act, in the area of giving credit to small business, incentivizing -- talking about grain jobs, incentivizing weatherization and home installation of retrofits. this has to be what we are about. >> this message from mary --

guest: the part of the recovery act that i think has gotten out the fastest, and in many ways bus bar has been one of the most effective components of the act -- thus far has been one of the most effective components of the act is what we have been hearing about from this e-mail, or i guess twitter. state and local fiscal relief has helped to save or create, and i suspect we are talking mostly about saving jobs, preventing layoffs, hundreds of thousands, over 300,000 educators, people in the classroom in public schools who would not be here in the absence of this relief. cops on the streets, fire fighters. by the way, you mentioned is some of the help getting down to the local level. my boss, the vice president, is out there today in georgia

talking about another piece of this agenda, which is extending broadband access. broadband internet access to rural areas who have been terribly underserved. this could be a real job multiplier if you have a community college, hospital, small-business linked through broadband to high-speed internet, that is obviously an entry ramp onto the highway of the new economy, and that is another piece of this that will reach into the rural communities. host: talking about green jobs. missouri. caller: good morning. i am termed a rhino -- but i'm one of the republicans who voted for mr. obama, president obama.

i don't think people necessarily understand the headwinds that this administration incurred as well as -- this man is running headstrong into a brick wall. and i don't think that my party, whose approval ratings are 20 percent now, understand what we're doing to ourselves. i don't agree with everything that he does but i don't question his motives, i don't question his patriotism and his intentions. with that said, missouri will be a very open state to the green jobs program. the majority of the midwest. i was recently in illinois for a

state forum and i noticed there were several windmills' on the outskirts, as well as what they're doing with clean water initiatives in illinois. but with that said, one thing that has to be touched on because, we are a fast food nation with fast food mentality. not many people realize how the outsourcing program -- outsourcing by my party -- and anyone touch on the fact that outsourcing did not turn out to be a good thing? host: i have had a number of other people sending twitter messages, also concerned about outsourcing such as this one -- guest: again, let me bring you back because it is something the vice-president introduced yesterday.

many of the components of the recovery act are targeted at exactly this problem. we want to develop -- and if you can find the comments the vice president made yesterday, i thought they were very eloquent support of exactly this point. one of the things we want to very much support here is revitalizing american manufacturing. he certainly saw him at work in this regard regarding the auto companies, helping them to restructure, giving them the space they needed to get through that perfect storm. but just yesterday you heard our support for another $5 billion in a tax credit that will be leveraged up with private capital to at least 15 billion to do something very particular

-- not some broad based, you can go and import goods from abroad. this is a tax credit to support building of the components of the green economy. even the domestic american many factories sector. i think we are thinking right along the lines of those last two questions speak to. host: our last call is from chicago. it gave you were named mary. caller: good morning and mary christmas. i have a question about the outsourcing. it seems to me if you really wanted to keep the jobs of this year you really have to make whatever those tax credits are, given to these companies, you have to make them for civil -- fourthable -- forfeitable if they outsource. guest: again i refer to my last answer, stressing the domestic

content of the new tax credit. but with the president has consistently come from at this point, is we are not going to isolate ourselves, we are not going to build walls, but with the extremely sensitive to the point marry another callers have made and we have to tap into our unique and dominant strengths are in the economy. we have the most productive manufacturers in the world. we have a top university system. we have an extremely productive workforce, especially, again, in that manufacturing space. those are the strengths we have to promote. that takes us through the president's education agenda, to make sure that we have "the human capital inputs," it to put a call economist framework, to make sure our capital markets and lending and credit markets are wide open after the best capital markets to finance of this kind of work. and that's exactly where some of

the president's ideas, whether manufacturing tax credit or new ideas regarding helping small businesses, come in. that is the way to create jobs here in america, to employ our productive, skilled work force in making green jobs that accomplished the goal of clean energy, provide good middle- class jobs for working families. host: let's go back to process again. have leaders in congress propose that a legislative vehicle for the clean jobs program? guest: the house recently passed a jobs program. this was not one of the components. but remember, the house, the senate, and the white house are going to be working very closely together on jobs, on any legislative issues that the present brought out in his speech a couple of weeks ago. and there is great support on capitol hill for precisely this tax credit i have been talking

about. you've got the senate, a number of senators from midwestern states, sherrod brown, debbie stabenow, there is a lot of support and we are confident we can move quickly. host: thank you for being us -- with us. jared bernstein joining us from the white house to talk about the administration's plans to add $5 billion to an existing program of tax credits with the idea of creating new jobs in the clean environment, green sector. we have 10 more minutes until the top of the hour for open phones. we would like to go back to your calls on any topic. you can continue on jobs and the environment or anything you would like. jack kingston is our next guest at 9:00 a.m. eastern time. we will talk about defense spending and of legislation by the house of representatives that would fund operations in iraq and afghanistan. the final guest this morning will be joining us, john bresnahan from politico, talking

about health care and senate rules. let us get a couple of twitter comments while we are waiting for your calls -- let me see if i can pull up comments. here is one that says -- that is a twitter message. if we could find one more here. that is a comment. the next call is from savannah. john, democrats line. you are on. caller: how are you doing? the government adviser to vice president biden, what he just said.

our government is subcontracting out to foreign governments, military contracts. making humvees in germany and now they are talking about making the earth force tanker in germany also. for him to say they are serious about creating american jobs is ridiculous. until we get rid of the 100 billionaires' and the united states senate and put normal people up there, this country is never going to change -- the 100 billionaires' been at the united states soenate. host: russell on the independent mind. caller: two points to make, one of the previous guest and the other related to the tax credits and things. i don't understand what the government issues tax credits on corporations based upon profitability. why aren't those federal tax credits related to job creation, job credits? that is something the irs could

monitor very easily based upon what corporation the person works for on the tax return. and as far as job zones and things, i think that should be just a local type of things. the federal government -- can pass money through the state or whatever, but as far as locations of businesses and profitability, that should be something local. and the other point he was making about the stewardship of the tarp funds. the reason why all of these companies are able to pay all of this back is because they are reviewing all of these derivatives. that is why goldman sachs was making so much money, they are reviewing all of these contracts and cleaning up their own stuff just like the federal government help clean up the major banks. now the major banks are cleaning up the major parties and

customers all related to the same thing. it is not giving to the people, that's why. host: yesterday the speaker of the house had an end of your briefing. here is the front page story -- host: next is a call from nyack, new york. angelica on the independent line. caller: i think giving a tax credit for businesses to become more green is a great step.

also the private sector needs to be supported to put solar panels and things like that in their house. however, i don't think it is enough. i think we need to get the suv's off the road and minimize the carbon footprints, single people lived and 3000 square- foot home, it seems ridiculous to me. host: tell us what kind of choices you made about a home you live in an car you drive? caller: i drive a scooter. we have one car and a scooter. i work locally so i am lucky i can take the scooter. i don't live in a home, i rent, so there is nothing i can do as far as putting solar panels up for things like that. host: what do you do with the school in the wintertime? caller: it is really cold. host: good luck this winter.

okeechobee, fla.. republican line. caller: we could open up millions of jobs rapidly if we would just pay attention to the law and send the illegal aliens back to their countries, and the skill levels of the people unemployed now would fill the jobs immediately. a very simple. host: thanks, henry. "the new york times" frontpage.

host: next and last for open phones, alameda, calif., one on the democrats' line. caller: i am not an illegal alien but the gentleman from florida represents the more ironic -- moronic thinking of many of the american public regarding our ancestry. we all came to this continent as an illegal alien at one point or another, and once you are here there is a thing called due process. you can't profile people because

of their name or how they look. it is something, this illegal alien thing seems to work its way into everything. as far as health care, i can't believe how we have gutted the basic plans we had. i agree totally with howard dean we should start from scratch. host: we are host: now to c-span radio. >> more on a former democratic national committee chairman howard dean's conference on the status of the health care bill. speaking earlier on "morning and joe," white house senior adviser david axelrod says that the criticism on health care reform are "predicated on a bunch of rts conclusion -- furious conclusions, and that for progressives to torpedo the legislation would be a tragic

outcome." an update on the war in afghanistan. while the chairman of the current chief of his troops on the -- chairman of the joint chiefs this its troops on the front line, an attacker tried to enter a gathering of tribal elders today, but afghan national army soldiers identified the threat and opened fire on the bomber, who then detonated his explosives. across the border in pakistan, the countries president is facing fresh cause to step down today, after a decision yesterday by the pakistan's supreme court striking down an amnesty agreement that had protected president zardari and several of his political allies from corruption charges. he spent several years in prison under previous administrations. meanwhile, the u.s. is believed to have carried out another missile strike against militants along the border with afghanistan today. intelligence officials say that the missiles hit a car carrying two suspected insurgents in a village north of waziristan.

those are the latest headlines on c-span radio. >> "washington journal" continues. host: this is congressman jack kingston. hexd is a house appropriations committee and is a member of the defense appropriations subcommittee. yesterday, the house passed the pentagon spending bill, 395-34, which pays for continuing operations in iraq and afghanistan and other things. what should people take away from the overwhelming vote? guest: well, i think that the congress, even in a partisan atmosphere, is still unified when it comes to funding our troops, funding our mission overseas, funding procurement and quality of life and equipment modernization. the issues with people in uniform are with us every day, and a good vote. the breakdown on it was $124 billion for iraq and

afghanistan, $134 billion for military personnel, which included a 3.4% pay raise, $187 billion for maintenance, operations, and $144 billion for procurement and modernization. the creditors, the drones, the unmanned aerial vehicles that are in the headlines today, investing in that sort of equipment for modern warfare. this bill, which probably should have been passed first, because national security, i think, is still everybody's number one issue -- it has been sitting out there and it got caught in the discussion of does this become the vehicle to put on raising the debt, expanding -- extending the cobra and some the other issues that are out there. as you know -- you follow the debate closely i think your meu)quj have --

that is why it passed. host: does the bill include additional money for the added trips and afghanistan? guest: no, it does not, which i think could not -- critics will pick up on it as a backdrop on one of this promises to do not have the supplemental bill for the war. host: $30 billion to $35 billion annually. guest: the actual cost of the war is $124 billion. host: let me read to you the concern among the liberal members of the house of representatives about the surge. yesterday, the speaker had a year-and you're in review press conference. "president obama will have to argue his own case to house democrats as he seeks support for the plan to put 30 as a trip to afghanistan.

the house speaker said that she is finished asking colleagues to support wars did not support. 'the president will have to make his case,' and nancy pelosi told reporters at the year-minute briefing on the legislative session. a supplemental bill would require $30 billion for the troops. 'he will come up with a plan and it is up to him to ask you for your support. what i told members is to give the president room to listen to what he has to say, they will provide the briefings and have the information. more votes are votes of conscience -- war votes are votes of conscience.'" guest: you know, i don't think that is an outrageous position. more transparency is a good thing. the president had run as a candidate of "let us get out of

iraq and fight the real war in afghanistan," and yet he keeps the same secretary of defense appointed by bush and many of the same personnel in terms of national security. i can see how house members, particularly on the liberal anti-war side, would be a little upset with him. the other thing that is very important for conservatives, liberals, no matter where you are, is the mixed signals we have gotten out of the white house over the past few weeks. the president said at the west point speech that we are going to build up a drawdown in 18 months, but then when it general mcchrystal spoke a few days later before the armed services committee, he said, "well, that deadline is not written in stone,." secretary gates -- all within a 48-hour period -- spoke to karzai, and, because i said there is no way we can take over this operation -- and hamid karzai said there is no way we can take over this operation for

another five years. homeland security said that this is more complicated than the discussion has been publicly. we are, as house members, getting a lot of mixed signals. the more sunshine and the more debate, the better for liberals and the better for conservatives. host: let's take calls on the topic of spending money for defense. the bill is in the senate right now. austin, texas, chris on the republican line. chris, turn down your tv and asked the question, please. caller: yes, ma'am. i was curious to know, how long will we fight enemies of the pop-up? i just found out that our cia had been shipping these guys a route from hot spots to citizens. i'm as concerned about how long that will be going on and what your thought is on that. guest: chris, i am not sure if this will answer your question or not, but there will be a big debate in the next couple of years not just about our mission in the middle east, afghanistan,

or iraq, but all around the world. the military is going to need some more money, can they get the resources that they need at a the existing $636 billion budget, or do we need to give them more money, or to me to say, "you know what, it is time for america to stop being the policemen of the world." perhaps these cia operations and other things we need to draw down. the cia budget actually comes under homeland security, so it is not even included in this. the other thing not included in the budget is $23 billion for military construction on the bases around the country, and then another $45 billion that pace for veterans health care. the cost of military operations in our budget is an enormous, under the name of national security. i am giving you a long answer, but i think your question is really relevant, because maybe

we should say, do we need to be at all the countries during the operations we are doing? host: new orleans is next, independent line. caller: the vote to keep on appropriating money for it illegal mohrs is just more and more blatant example that we do not have a government, we have a criminal organization that represents the military industrial complex, and to hell with the people. this is plain as i can say it, plane as it can be. you bring up the operations of the cia -- the man brought up the operations of the cia. we should not even have a cia. the funding is coming from mostly that goal that was confiscated from the japanese up in the philippines. it was being investigated, and the three places that got hit on 9/11 were the three places

that stored the information on this secret blacktops operation. i would ask for a new investigation -- new one -- i would ask for an investigation, a criminal investigation in 9/11, because the whole damn thing is based on a lie. guest: one of the things, on the 9/11 commission, they had a lot of resources and did a lot of hearings. i don't know if you read that report. it has been several years since i read it. but i think it was fairly thorough. i want to get to the broader issue, and that is transparency in government in general. maybe at the end of the day, you and i are going to disagree on some things, but i would like you to have all the information. one of the things that we republicans are pushing for, if we get back into the majority, is that we want to put bills online, seven days in advance, so that people have an opportunity to read what is in

the $636 billion defense bill, why is unemployment insurance in there, should it be in there, is it a good thing, satellite tv issues -- what were they put into the defense bill? there were a lot of things like that, but i want people like you have the opportunity to read the bills online for seven days and ask questions before we go. host: there are two stories in "usa today" related to the military. the first one, "study details u.s. troops' prescription drug abuse. one in four soldiers and a bit abusing prescription drugs, most of them pain relievers -- admit abusing prescription drugs, most of them pain relievers. 28,500 u.s. troops last year surveyed, about 20% of marines

had also used prescription drugs, mostly painkillers, in that same. the percentage of troops showing cluster bank stress disorder increased during the war years -- showing post-traumatic stress disorder increased during the war years. nearly 60% of marines who were surveyed admit binge drinking, with heavy alcohol use, defined as five or more drinks per occasion once a week, among all service members ages 18 to 35 remain higher than the civilian population." what are you hearing there? guest: well, these are in a lot on the table. -- use are a lot on the table. the bill passed yesterday at $29 billion for medical-related issues for members of the service and their family, brain trauma and psychological issues, all funded. actually, that is an increase

in recognition of the problems that are out there. but there is a problem, kind of like in athletics, where you want keep people off the disabled list, so sometimes rather than treating an injury, you give a pain pill, and people can keep on marching or whatever they are doing. one of the things we are also studying, but the way, is how to make it leiter for them, and reduced the amount of injuries -- lighter for them, and reduce the amount of injuries. all of this is an orthopedists nightmare, if you will print and get the -- all of this is an orthopedist's nightmare, if you will. we want to study this on a bipartisan basis, and see how we address it and do it in a better way. host: frank, democrats line, you

are on. caller: good morning, susan. thank god for c-span. if i might say something -- on health something -- is that ok? host: briefly, please. caller: i agree with howard dean that it has been so watered down that the president signs it without a public option. this individual, the audit taken out and shoot him in the kneecaps. -- they ought to take him out and shoot him in the kneecaps. i agree with president obama that we need to get osama bin laden, but i'm also applied to agree with the last caller from louisiana who said that there is a lot of nonsense going on with 9/11 and the towers. i believe these are the same people who took up the kennedys. this individual in front of me -- my god -- host: thank you very much for the culprit i will just move on to our next -- thank you very

much for the call. i will just move on to our next caller, from alabama. caller: i have to make a comment that i have a tendency to agree with ron paul. i am wondering what we are doing over there anyway. and what are we still having basis, army bases and navy bases and all of these military bases all over the world anyway? i mean, we need to close them all down and burned all our troops home -- bring all of our troops home and let these other countries to fend for themselves. they want a democracy, let them spend money and let them for their own democracies -- format their own democracies. guest: we are kind of darned if we do and if we don't.

there is the ron paul school of lathought that maybe we should e more isolationist and just say we really don't care what you do to each other, but if you do it was, we will come over there and blow you away. i am not trying to over-simplify ron paul's view, but there is a growing discussion about that and it is not a bad discussion to have at all. but i will say that when you disengage with the country, as we did with afghanistan in 1989, what happened? but taliban came in. russia destroyed the existing minority there. when that happens, al qaeda found fertile ground to recruit and train and so forth. what i have to afghanistan, what they said to us is, "are you going to stay this time?" i think we have to have engaged in, and effective engagement, but we have to have other

nations, nato allies, participate, and the host countries debt th -- the host countries stepping up to the play themselves. host: "usa today" has a store on the mentors program. retired officers are brought back as consultants. yesterday, the secretary announced a review of the program. on the senate side, senator claire mccaskill is leading a hearing on the program. i want to give the viewers a sense of this. "to review found that the navy pays its mentor's an average of $330 an hour, the marines, $187 per hour less expensive -- per hour plus expenses. the investigation published last month found that 80% of the 158

military mentors that the newspaper could identify also had ties to defense contractors." guest: that is all relevant and something that we should ask a lot of hard questions about and may discontinue the program and rebuild completely. i don't know what the benefit is. we have to get the benefit to say is it worth all of this apparent waste and over-billing? i don't know the answer to that. one of the things that i think the liberals and conservatives and independents can get together on is inside this military budget, which is massive, what can we do to reduce costs and make it more effective and efficient? i believe, as a conservative republican, that republicans need to measure it with the same yardstick that we applied to welfare programs and social programs that have waste that we are very concerned about. i think it is something that congress can actually put its best foot forward and say, "lets ferret out all this stuff,

because the military needs stuff, becut there is a lot of stuff we are spending money on and not getting the bang for the buck." host: is there a bipartisan agreement on the areas of overspending? guest: we have a good bipartisan subcommittee, and jack murtha and bill young get along real well. there's a lot of criticism of the committee and some other members of the committee, but they work together fairly well. the subcommittee just got back from a bipartisan trip to afghanistan. i think we have come together on that. one of the things we debate a lot are the civilian contact -- civilian contractors. they have to harbor to the thousand in the middle east right now. 100,000 in iraq, 7000 in afghanistan. no one really knows, when we talk about what we are spending money on, that is one of the

things we are trying to get a grip on. it is very difficult to do. host: you referenced the critiques of the committee. john murtha himself has been subject to a number of them because of his ties to contractors. how can the subcommittee could look at the military spending? guest: i don't think it has to be limited to that subcommittee. we had a spending committee, but we also have an authorizing committee, and then you have a budget committee. speakers can always apply a select committee. as the senate is doing with senator mccaskill. there are opportunities to have a third-party oversight and let us make sure we all come together on it. but just because you were on the committee does not mean you cannot look fairly at reducing the cost of it. some want to plus it up and some want to reduce it. you have the brain power and you

just have to of the conviction. -- have to have the conviction. host: the house overwhelmingly passed the bill yesterday and the senate is considering it now. patrick, independent, you are on the air. caller: quick question for the congressman did what defense contractors are in your district? guest: um, i can only think of one small one. we don't have major defense contractors in my district. as you know, they're all over the place. caller: okay, the second question is, who are you expecting to pay for these war expenses? are you planning a war tax? guest: i think it should come out of general revenue. as you know, there is a proposal for a war surtax, and the chairman of the appropriations committee, mr. obey, has proposed, but it does not even have the support of the speaker right now. it is a legitimate question, and

that is why we need to determine what our mission is in afghanistan and have a clear signal from the white house about what we are going to do. they have already backed off the 18-month exit you know, i am open to discussion, as i think we should. host: what is the bottom line? what are you asking this? caller: i am tired of paying for these things, and i think the rest of the country is. i think that when we send people to congress and they approve these kinds of massive spending bills without any clear direction about how this is going to be paid for, it is just unconscionable. thank you. guest: well, i think that what the issues we have to deal with this spending in general. as you know, the deficit this year is the highest in history, the highest by about three times, $1.40 trillion. it is almost laughable that the u.s. senate, after setting a massive spending bill -- but the way, military spending is up about 3%, other non-military

spending is up 12%. after passing the omnibus bill, which was a big spending increase, 12% without military, the senate turned around and said, you know what we need, a commission on spending. i support the commission on spending as well, but you know, some of the fiscal discipline -- don't pass a big spending bill and then turn around and talk about fiscal discipline. it is hypocritical. host: connecticut, joe, democrats line. caller: good morning. i have a simple question but is the cost -- i have a simple question. is the cost in addition to having a standing army? guest: no, it is not. it is in addition to personnel, 569,000 members of the army, 200,000 in guard reserve, about

331,000 in the navy, and the coast guard is around 20,000, and 200,000 in the marines. that is in the $134 billion. the additional cost of 30,000 new troops, sending them to afghanistan, is not in this budget, and that is another 30 billion dollars to $35 billion that we will have to come back several months and find that. host: maryland, a republican line. caller: hello. can you hear me? host: we sure can. caller: i'm a former u.s. marine and i served in four wars. what i don't understand, when did we go from searching for osama bin laden to fighting a drug war in afghanistan, and why are we pumping so much money over there to the war they want

to bring the troops back in 18 months, but yet i'm on disability, i make $1,200 a mont. with inflation, -- they say there is no inflation, and i just got back from the social security of is that i cannot get across the living wage -- [unintelligible] you go to the supermarket and what used to cost $1 is now $2, and the boxes are smaller. that is not inflation, what is? i went and fought for this country and that really gets my goat. i'm on disability because of that. i had to fight for three years to get my disability. guest: number one, on the social security cola, it is tied into a market basket of goods and services, a weighted average, and if you tie social security

and inflation across the board, sometimes the cola would actually be less. last year, as you know, it was 5.7%, and that was probably better than most americans got. i know that does not do you any good if you're getting by on $1,200 a month. that is pretty tight, particularly after all you again for our country, which we are very appreciative of. -- all you have done for our country, which we are very appreciative of. when you have the active soldiers, they will hopefully become retirees one day, and you have to take care of them as well. part of our challenges is quality of life not just for active duty, but for their years down the road. that is my medical health care and psychological health care is -- that is why medical health care and psychological health care is so important for everyone. host: this is a twitter message. i would like to ask you what it is about the operations in

afghanistan that the estimates of money per soldier come from. guest: that is an excellent question, and something we need to get our hands on. it's about $660,000 per soldier, and the question that really is alarming, and i think it is classified -- what is the taliban budget? we know it is considerably less than $30 billion per soldier -- per surge of soldiers -- not the total, of course. you have transportation costs and specialized equipment, and you are fighting an enemy that is not recognizable. unmanned vehicles, all of the above to minimize collateral damage, which the enemy is not worried about. that costs you a lot more money. feeding everybody -- we are fighting for a poor nation that

is not helping desperatus kick . the question is a great question. why do we have to spend so much more than the other guys? these are very good things that we need to pursue. and i want to say again, democrats and republicans can agree that these things need to be researched. i welcome it. host: "wall street journal" frontpage -- "insurgents at u.s. it -- hack u.s. drones. guest: it is absolutely terrifying. with technology, you can always pretend to -- if you see somebody at the airport on a

bluetooth, you can hack the conversation with very little sophistication. there is money being given to hacking not just drones, but the department of defense computers, centers of disease control computers, and hackers around the world are working all day long. one of the things we are funding in this bill as cyber security. armstrong atlantic university in atlanta, georgia, is one of the leaders in -- in savannah, georgia, is one of the leaders in this. how do you build those walls to keep a $26 billion program from being -- from breaking in? host: last call. caller: first, i want to thank

representative kingston for the job he does. i want to speak up about what we spoke about a few minutes ago on that drug use and posttraumatic syndrome among our troops i think we see so much more of that today because our congress is like the congress of the vietnam. many of those people are professional congressman, professional senators who have been there forever, and their mindset has not changed. the liberal mind-set of congress right now is what is bringing this country down and bringing our troops down. they don't have the support of our government, and the liberals are twisting the minds of the american people, so they feel they are not supported over here. i think that is where the posttraumatic stress comes from. guest: i will tell you one thing i am looking forward to do it in a few hours is catching a flight back to savannah, georgia. i come there frequently, as you know. one of the things that is very important for members of congress to do is get the heck out of washington.

this town is a bubble and you get filtered information, information from people who have a vested interest in giving it to you a certain way. it is important for all of us to get the heck out of town and listen to people. what i get home, and like to listen to troops -- when i get home, i like to listen to troops. they are under a lot of stress, because we have been in afghanistan for eight years, and they're not sure how much longer we are going to be there. our soldiers want to know what is the goal, is it clear and understandable, can be obtained, and what is the deadline, because i want to go to another mission. we have failed to do that. both the bush administration, and now the obama administration. stay in touch with the people back home and the soldiers is very important. host: mr. kingston, thank you for being here. you come here a couple times of year and we appreciate it. happy holidays.

we will be focusing on the senate's roles and how proponents and opponents of the bill are using senate rules to get to their aid. we will be right back. >> the senate homeland security committee is holding a couple of hearings today. the first one is on the future of the economy, and economic risks facing the u.s., with testimony from former federal reserve chairman alan greenspan and former u.s. comptroller david walker. live at 10:00 a.m. eastern right after "washington journal" on c-

span. in the afternoon, the state department and pentagon officials testify on contacting in afghanistan. recent charges will the private security companies are paying off the deep and cheeks to make sure that u.s. convoys get through -- pay half taliban chiefs to make sure that u.s. can always get through -- u.s. convoys get through. >> the heart of the matter is the half-a-trillion-dollar cut in medicare, the $400 billion tax increases, and the fact that insurance premiums are going to go up dramatically for most americans. >> follow every minute of the debate on the senate floor, with late nights and possibly more weekend sessions, life on our companion network, c-span2, the only network to cover the sessions gavel-to-gavel with no commentary. and get updates from the

congressional quarterly-roll call group. >> "washington journal" it continues. host: this is john bresnahan of "politico." we have invited him here this morning to help us understand what the senate rules are and how they might help or support people who are in favor of or against -- or thwart people who are in favor of or against the bill. i was musing about how senator robert byrd, a parliamentarian, used to say that he who controls the rules controls the outcome. guest: especially in the senate, because the senate is a completely different body in terms of how it operates. the house is not a democracy. the house as the majority, and

the majority jams through what it really wants. in the senate, you have to work out agreements on time, amendments, procedure. you have to deal with the minority in the senate, and that is the duty of the system, but it is frustrating for folks who did not -- that is the duty of the system, but it is frustrating for folks who do not understand it. host: what have you learned about the history of invoking cloture and a filibuster? guest: it used to be that there were no majority leaders and minority leaders. that is a development of the 19th century. each senator could speak for as long as he or she wanted. henry clay, a historical a giant in the senate -- they controlled by the force of their personality. majority and minority leaders came in, and cloture was something that was developed and the senate to cut off on limited debate. -- developed in the senate to

cut off unlimited debate. we have not had an actual filibuster in decades. it is a pretty regular procedure where one side threatened a filibuster and they have to go through it, and they need 16 votes to end debate, and that is called getting cloture. after that, there is another 30 hours following that 30 hours of floor debate. the drive to get cloture on everything is what republicans have been doing at the health care bill. the basically saying, "we will not support you on anything, procedurally, or substantively." they're forcing them to have 60 votes on everything they do on this. host: earlier, we had senator jeff bingaman on the program, and a color -- caller mentioned the bair version of lyndon

johnson, and asked why isn't there at -- the biography of lyndon johnson, and asked why isn't there a leader like lyndon johnson. his reply was that it is very different from the 1960's. what is that? -- why is that? guest: there are two independents and the caucus, senator joe lieberman, and senator bernie sanders, and they will vote the way they want. and members are much more forceful now. they are less cowed by their leadership and more willing to stand up by themselves -- stand up for themselves. lyndon johnson had huge majorities and he could control them, he could control purse strings, where senators sat, what committees they were on, everything. now there is much more press coverage, and if the senate leader is trying to retaliate, the press will jump all over it. senators are much more likely to speak up and less likely to

accept it out of fear that it will ruin their careers. host: to questions and comments about the senate's 18 days of health care debate and the use of senate rules to affect the outcome. we want to know what you thinking as you listen to all of this. one of the things put on the table is this december 1 letter to fellow republicans in the senate from the judd gregg, who said that it is critical that senators have a solid understanding of minority rights in the senate. you can see that there are two full pages of rules and how they work in the united states senate that might affect the republican position on health care, and encourages them to use it. one of those is the reading of amendments in concert with conference reports in their entirety.

as he writes, in most circumstances, the reading of the full text of amendments may only be dispensed with by unanimous consent we saw that yesterday with senator bernie sanders' amendment, and that was pulled from the floor. >> i withdraw my amendment. >> regular order, mr. president. >> the senator has that right. it is withdrawn. >> everybody in this country understands that our nation faces a significant number of major crises, whether it is the disintegration of our health care system, the fact that 17% of our people are unemployed or

underemployed, one out of four of our children are living on food stamps, we have to double wars, we have a global warming, we have a $12 trillion national debt, and the best the republicans can do is try to bring the united states government to a halt by forcing the reading of a 700-page amendment. that is an outrage. people can have honest disagreements, but in this moment of crisis, it is wrong to bring the united states government to a halt. host: john, what happened yesterday? guest: senator sanders had his amendment on the public option. senator coburn, a republican, asked for a reading of the amendment, 750-page amendment. there were several hours into what went sanders withdrew the amendment. republicans objected, saying that he did not have the right to withdraw the eminent on his own, but needed unanimous consent -- withdraw the amendment on his own, but needed

unanimous consent to do that. senator mitch mcconnell, the minority leader, was very happy. the senate can operate by unanimous consent or they can filibuster. every day, everything that happens. one side proposes, the other side proposes, they negotiate. everything happens unanimous consent. that is what you have to remember when you watch the senate. host: the parliamentarian who made the call yesterday on the subject of republicans making that call. guest: senator mcconnell's point was that he was going to -- that sanders needed unanimous consent to that -- to do that, or the

amendment would have kept being read. the parliamentarians, the guys to referee the four disputes, are under fire. -- the guys who refereed the floor disputes, are under fire. several years ago, senator trent lott did not like a parliamentarian, and he essentially fired the parliamentarian, had him removed, which caused a huge ruckus, with democrats accusing them of changing the rules. one side of the majority now, it is going to be in the minority eventually. they are very closely guarding the use of president. -- use of precedent. host: missouri, carl, and attended e watching all of this? -- carl, independent. you watch all this? caller: i am watching all of this pretty easy to what senator

dick durbin on the floor, giving senator -- watching all this. you need to watch senator but on the floor, giving senators sanders the right to remove the amendment. the house is the only body of government that is a democracy. under a democracy, majority rules. the senate is the body of government that is not a democracy. is that the republic, not -- it is neither a republican, not a democracy, and in the united states government, we are supposed to operate under representative democracy, and they don't operate under representative democracy. i personally think that the senate is that snail-paced body that the country would be better off if we just eliminated. guest: i would have to respectfully disagree with that

completely. i think the senate is still a wonderful institution and there are wonderful men and women who work there becaus. the house floor is controlled by the speaker, in this case nancy pelosi. she controlled the debate because she controls the house rules committee. nine democrats and four republicans on it. when the rules committee debates what amendments will be on the floor, or procedures they will take to have a vote, the democrats never lose. overwhelming majority. sam when republicans controlled the house, the same majority. -- same when republicans controlled house, sam majority. the debate and out between the majority and minority leader -- hammered out between the majority and minority leader. every day is a process of negotiation going back and forth between which mcconnell and harry reid. in a lot of ways, the senate is

the grand tradition of democracy, compromise and conciliation majority does rule. you still have to have 60 votes , and individual senators have enormous leverage to get their amendment, and if the senator once the amendment on the floor, she will get the debate. -- once the amendment on the floor, she will get the debate. you had mr. kingston on before me. he was joking about how impressive the house rules are. a minority in the house is not a fun place to be. host: detroit, mark, democrats line. caller: high, are you there? host: you are on. caller: i have not been on in a while, i am happy to watch c- span every day. i have a couple of things, to say, and i hope you are not cut

off. like i said, i have not called in quite some time. the republicans seem to think that the democrats are the only ones who do not have insurance. i live here in detroit, and this town is a war zone. i don't see any progress going on here. i have also lived in florida, sarasota, and i had to leave because of medical problems. i had to live with my dad, who was 82 years old and on social security, disability, for a heart attack. i applied for medicaid and social security disability, going through appeals. i just don't understand how the republicans cannot see this whole country has not republican or democrat -- as not republican or democrat. it is just people. they're supposed to be there working for us. they are fighting against

something so basic as health care. host: there are a lot of people on line. what about that question? caller: well, now lost it. the question is how the republicans be so in -- favor in hello? host: republicans in favor of what? caller: delay -- watching the tv. how can they be so in favor of war? they watched the damage that bush and cheney put us in. i would rather pay taxes for health care than paving roads. host: a comment rather than a question. the polls have shown this morning -- one is really quite lopsided, from cnn, 44% st. pass the bill in the current form. how are the polls affecting the

debate? guest: they are watching closely. the democrats came out of the election thinking they had a mandate to do this. it is something that president obama talked about doing. he was much smaller -- he was much stronger on health care during the campaign. when you become president, it is a new reality. democrats feel this is an issue that is a cost issue for individual americans and american corporations, and they see the united states economic competitors across the world with a national health care, some kind of universal system, and they feel they have to do this. republicans are watching the polls very closely. senator mcconnell points out, when he started opposing this early in the year, he and his fellow republicans, the poles were not with him. they feel that as they have exposed more details about the cost of the democratic plan, or what the democrats want to do, that the american public has turned in their favor. they have watched the polls the

closely and there's -- watched the polls pretty closely and there is a day-by-day cents a pop and down. but they watch the polls pretty closely. host: where are you calling from? caller: alaska. host: are you roger? caller: yes. republicans don't have to do anything because they have -- [unintelligible] as long as they have the campaign for to us in -- for 2008 -- [unintelligible] my two senators from maine, they're sitting behind and not doing anything for us. host: first of all, joe lieberman's role as an independent.

guest: still on the committee with the democrats. he campaigned for senator mccain during the presidential race. he has also been expressing a lot of concern, a lot of skepticism out of the democratic plan. -- about the democratic plan agreed he has opposed a public option, the medicare the wide-in -- about the democratic plan. he has opposed a public option, the medicare buy an-in. of course, he comes from a state with large insurance companies, and many are attacking his motivation for his stands on this issue. -- stance on this issue. if you ask harry reid, harry reid has said he ahad a few problems with lieberman, and

lieberman has gotten a lot of criticism from the left, who feel that he has changed and altered his position, but he is the 60th vote and harry reid has to happen to break any republican filibuster. -- has to have him to break any republican filibuster. host: in "the baltimore sun," let me read you what they said. "if senate democratic leaders succeed in the negotiations and nail down the 60 the vote, they began a lengthy process for ending republican filibusters and moving to the final vote. three cloture votes will be required for each stage the bill must move through, each requiring 60 votes, setting the 30-hour limit on debate." white three cloture votes? -- why three cloture votes? guest: i'm not sure what they're

referring to in that article. at this point, we are not sure what the final procedure is going to be, and one of my colleagues at "politico" wrote this morning about a 7:00 p.m. christmas eve vote. but when they get a final -- there is going to be a filibuster on bringing it up and there will be a substitute amendment, whatever democrats eventually agree on, and that will be brought up, and there will be a filibuster on bringing that up, and they will have to go to the end of that and vote on that. senator harry reid will meet with senator lieberman and every person in the caucus will need all 60. and then there will be a motion and it will go to a final, which can also be wrapping up, and

filibustered, and a final vote. once they do that, there are opportunities for republicans to stall on that, because there will be concerns about the house and senate conference. they can filibuster those motions to go to conference, and we could see several more votes before we get into the conference, after the senate and complete debate on the bill. -- before the senate completes debate on the bill. caller: i want to make a comment about bernie sanders, who i saw on c-span yesterday. i think he just made a fool of himself. i agree with what tom coburn did. any bill that is over 100 pages should be read out loud by the clerk. that is what they're prepared to

do, by senators and representatives, so we know what is an adult but i agree with a tow -- so we know what is in the bill. i agree with tom coburn. is it true that they cannot mandate anything on the american people, and only states can do that? that is all. thank you. guest: not a constitutional scholar. a belief -- i believe there are lots of mandates on individual americans prepar. mandates and requirements for american citizens -- there is broad agreement that the federal government does have power is an individual state governments don't have them. -- does have powers that individual state governments don't have.

senator cohen wanted to four spokes to see what was at -- senator tom coburn wanted it to force folks to see was in senator sanders' amendment. this would have been the first time that a single payer universal health care system was debated on the senate floor. he wanted to vote on it eventually. he ended up withdrawing that. for senator centers and those who want a single payer system, the thought this -- for senator sanders and those who want a single payer system, they thought this was a big moment. this is fascinating to watch. this is democracy at work. it is not always pretty and easy. . this is why we have a republic. you take your time and you go through everything, and you have

a vote on it. for folks who cover the dough, it is exactly what we get excited about. who covered the hill, it is exactly what we get excited about. host: massachusetts. caller: i have been out of work for 11 months now, so i am forced to watch you guys, and it is great. this is the way it is supposed to go. you were supposed to hear the amendments. and people get to vote. democrats are saying that republicans are stalling. well, the democrats are going in back rooms and making deals with pharma and insurance companies unbeknownst to us, and it is coming out. thank god for tom coburn, and dr. mitch mcconnell, because now we can really see this. -- and thank god for mitch

mcconnell, because now we can really see this. now we know when we vote what we really want done, not a democratic way of pushing it through. guess what? it is turning on them, because they did it in the back room. host: "the washington post" story saying that republicans are expected to make a similar move 1 . introduces the revised senate bill, which is likely to top -- when harry reid introduces the revised senate bill, which is likely to top 2000 pages. guest: they have a right to ask for this. frankly, this is to be expected. you mentioned earlier the memo from senator judd gregg. this is what they read as the minority to force -- i believe

it will take a date to read it, just to read it out loud. -- take a day to read it, just to read it out loud. a time to come up with more plants, to exercise their right. democrats call at stalling. -- will call it stalling, republicans call it exercising their rights. i like to see the fact that folks are paying attention. this legislation affects every american. you should go online, go to c- span on line, or my publication, "politico," on- line, or to the library of congress. i've read the congressional work every day since i've been here, within 15 years. it is important to the amendments -- read the congressional archive ever since i've been here, more than 15 years. it is important to read the amendments.

you can look at what is going on and write a letter to your congressman, senator, send an e- mail, send a letter, make a phone call, and it is important to be involved in this debate. host: this you were asked, from a policy standpoint -- viewer asked, from a policy standpoint, what is the likelihood of getting a trigger amendment? guest: you cannot say broadly whether a member will vote for it. we will have to see the details of it. there is a lot of talk about what they would have to have to bring polybius know in. -- to bring of libya snow in. -- olympia snowe in. she voted to bring it out of the she voted to bring it out of the finance committee.